assassination

[final star]

Pulling all tp first boss

And just PUMPING

[strange python]

please stop talking about legion rogue it makes me sad when i think of the times when

[distant cypress]

and i always used it to cheese on that titan girl boss in Tomb, when she teleported to the other side of the circle i just pressed at the same second DfA and i literally flew across platform to her

[strange python]

every group had at least 1 rogue in the mdi

[oak jungle]

the last boss in court of stars on tyrannical

[distant cypress]

DfA and kingsbane are two things i miss really badly

[hollow escarp]

that boss learned me how evasion works

[distant cypress]

rogue never felt the same without it

[oak jungle]

sub with the funnel DFA was probably the most fun ive had playing rogue ever

[hollow escarp]

I was about to clutch time a +22 but I turned around and ran away and boss killed me

[oak jungle]

the crits were just absurd

[final star]

I had a weak aura that yelled how much my evis crit for

in DfA

I think the record was 34M

[hollow escarp]

that's like a mythic Nathria boss

[distant cypress]

good ol' times

[compact pumice]

!soulbinds

[queen galleon]

remember that beauty ?

i do

[final star]

it was not good for rogue compared to damage trinkets

cos of damage amp as sub

[willow isle]

Do you expect venthyr's flag to be nerfed?

[final star]

Not for the rest of current patch at least, no

[subtle tundra]

probably not for pve

but its possible to get a hotfix for pvp

[safe canyon]

Doomblade drops from layer 3 and above yeah?

[icy fox]

Anyone tried assassination for m+?

Or is outlaw still better?

[quaint phoenix]

Outlaw ist stil way better but if you dont plan on sping 20+ doesnt rly matter imo

[hollow escarp]

outlaw is better, but assa is pretty good and fun in M+

[viral kite]

what talents do you run on venth for m+ if youre gonna fuck around with it

[hollow escarp]

2232223

[vocal karma]

I think Assa feels really good in m+, especially Tyrannical this week made the spec shine (at least for me)

[quaint phoenix]

I think so as welk

[hollow escarp]

it's good in higher keys for the sustained aoe damage

I mean 15-18

[final star]

I run 2132223

[hollow escarp]

I would prefer leeching poison

[final star]

Cheat death too giga strong

[hollow escarp]

last boss plague fall I cloak one

cheat the other

and cloak in last phase

the debuff

[final star]

Worth trying to have a necro for slime buff now

I've seen a DK carry the mob that does the damage reduction dome

And use that too

[quaint phoenix]

Kojack are you playing without a heal or what?😂😂

[final star]

[quaint phoenix]

I played pf 17 this week without getting close to low hp at stradama

[final star]

That's not a high key

[hollow escarp]

did 18 PF with resto druid and no dispell this week

[quaint phoenix]

Not much higher isnt it

[hollow escarp]

DH tank, bm hunter, sin rogue, havoc

[thick briar]

HI, assassin any good now since hotfix?

[hollow escarp]

[thick briar]

if you compare it to sub

[quaint phoenix]

Nah play outlaw

Check logs

Why ask

Srsly

[hollow escarp]

true, outlaw so much better

nothing to do with the fact that people didn't craft sin legendaries yet because of a time gated system

[balmy condor]

Hello! Sin is pumping boss damage, but outlaw still wins in cleave. It is better than sub though

[quaint phoenix]

Im too toxic sry

[hollow escarp]

you are a rogue so it's fine

[quaint phoenix]

Hahahah

[final star]

I do more damage as outlaw than assassination in m+

By a lot

[hollow escarp]

I actually dont

[quaint phoenix]

Should be the case as a cleave specc no?

[hollow escarp]

but I have good M+ gear

for sin

[final star]

I have good for both

Haste > crit=vers for assassination

Vers > haste > crit for outlaw

Gearing

[hollow escarp]

haste in M+ on sin

[final star]

[glacial quarry]

i really enjoy ass's aoe, is it decent in the higher keys when mobs live longer than a warrior's bladestorm?

[balmy condor]

What about it

[hollow escarp]

crit vers better

[balmy condor]

[final star]

Any zero energy fans

[glacial quarry]

i think haste is less relevant in m+ because you have good energy regen from bleed spread in aoe, right?

[final star]

No

You really don't

[quaint phoenix]

No sugar in your energydrinks is always the way🙃

[hollow escarp]

you do

[balmy condor]

This chat is a fever dream wtf happened

[final star]

With three ruptures and two garrote up I still have piss low energy

And that's with almost 800 haste lmao

[normal olive]

just wait until i get my openers later on whopspyr

[final star]

Blessed be our 1 CP FoK

[quaint phoenix]

Maybe targets not poisoned?

[hollow escarp]

that's why crit is fun

so you get 2 cp

[balmy condor]

Haste is a good stat, and 5 bleeds is more than enough to make you overcap energy

[final star]

I am NS though

[hollow escarp]

ohh

[final star]

So I don't insta have 3 garrote up

[balmy condor]

But why

[quaint phoenix]

@kieron you need to be more toxic to benefit from vw lol

[final star]

MA

NS + MA legendary poggies

Crimson tempest pumps

[balmy condor]

I mean okay

[hollow escarp]

well, at least you are having fun

[final star]

I do more than good enough damage

And it actually sims higher for me

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but does dslice translate well in reality?

[true fractal]

Hello guys. I have a Kyrian rogue, doing raids and m+, not too much of pew pew. Recently I kind of started losing interest in sub and outlaw. So I was wondering how it currently feels like playing as assa as Kyrian vs Venthyr? I remember trying it before the 9.05 and it sucked balls. Is it worth rerolling to Venthyr if I go assa or are Kyrians still competitive?

[willow isle]

In m+ if boss fight does not long more than 2 min, it is worth to hold your vendetta for execute hp with zoldyck? (If you don't have bl at pull)

[balmy condor]

Decent enough, yes

[final star]

More often than not, yes

[hollow escarp]

not on Plaguefall

[quaint phoenix]

Kyrian is boring as fu

[final star]

Opening with Mfd + CT > Fok etc

It's guaranteed poison applications

As well as two ruptures, a CT and a garrote

[balmy condor]

Kyrian kind of garbage, but it’s close enough, I would just try it and see if you like it

[hollow escarp]

I use my first MFD to get snd rolling

[final star]

Usually have SnD up from previous pack

[true fractal]

Yeah I feel the same way, but I liked the covenant more than venthyr and I have still plenty to do there, its just that raiding and m+ is not fun anymore like this.

[balmy condor]

Usually not because you’re gonna be missing casts later in the dungeon because of it

[final star]

You want stuff off cooldowns as much as possible in m+

[hollow escarp]

you don't really need to have vendetta up for bosses

[final star]

As long as you're going to have it for when you need it

[hollow escarp]

might as well use it on a big mob instead of waiting 1 min with it

[willow isle]

Yeah, sounds right. Thanks guys

[final star]

The likelihood is you'll use it, then it'll be back up half way through pride too

Ready for a boss

That way you've not lost a cast

And have to hold for 10-15s only

[hollow escarp]

I hate using vendetta on the prides before boss though

[final star]

I don't use on pride before boss

Ever

That's int

[hollow escarp]

well for 2nd boss in Spires I never use vendetta on pride, I dump everything in that shitty boss

[final star]

You wanna pump that mf

[hazy crater]

double vendetta for p3 Denathrius or 1 with lust

[final star]

I think I did it on a +17 this week

In 52 seconds

[balmy condor]

Double and lust, why are you guys holding lust so long

Just Lust at the start of p3, with cds, and get a second one later

[hazy crater]

DK's and DH dont have CD's on start

I guess

[hollow escarp]

they use it to pad on ads

[balmy condor]

Well if they’re padding on adds then fuck them anyway

Who cares if they have CDs if they’re just gonna throw it away

[hollow escarp]

but muh logs

[hazy crater]

so no army or meta in P2?

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

Ah yes, the magic number the internet says is good

[hazy crater]

I can forward that if thats what they should do

[thick briar]

Zoldryck or Doomblade?

[final star]

You don't hold lust for specific classes at the detriment to the rest of your raid

[balmy condor]

For what content

[hazy crater]

Well its not really a detriment to any other class than me I think

[normal olive]

My brain is so big even i don't understand what it's doing

[hazy crater]

since anyone else can just hold for the lust and not lose a cast

[balmy condor]

So other people don’t have 2min cd’s?

[thick briar]

Looks like Doomblade for pure single target and zoldyck is better overall?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[final star]

Zoldyck is better for execute

[hollow escarp]

on prog

[crimson terrace]

[final star]

Ya

Else just slap put doomblade

[hazy crater]

dont think so. Meta, Ascendance, Army, Wings are the other ones

3+ min

[thick briar]

best lego in pvp?

they nerfed MA to the ground right? the leggo

[hollow escarp]

only outlaw and fire mages have cds every 1 min

[balmy condor]

So you don’t have hunters, windwalkers, warriors, warlocks?

Your raid is just full of shamans and dk’s?

[hazy crater]

no ww's but ranged are in the other phase

so they lust differently

forgot our warrior tho he is there

easy to forget that class 😄

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[hollow escarp]

the warrior buffs our damage though

[balmy condor]

Well damage during p2 is way less important than p3

So I’m not sure how much your timing gets fucked

But I would think army during p2 is hard trolling

[final star]

It is indeed

The only phase that matters is p3

[gloomy fern]

as sin you 100% use ur cds directly in p3 and direclty after combo 2 basically with pot

[final star]

So unless your CD is gonna be up for start of p3

Why would you hard int it into p2

[hazy crater]

we'll discuss that lust timing then

[wet ruin]

not necessarily, we have 1 dk pop army on the second big add

[hazy crater]

I feel the DH with meta on pull and lust though with that strat 😄

[balmy condor]

Interesting

[gloomy fern]

and who cares about the DH they literally do 0 dmg p3

we had a 200 ilvl dh who pulled less than 3k dps

[gentle gyro]

i mean, that's more of an ilvl thing

[gloomy fern]

no

[gentle gyro]

but yeah dh ST isn't that great

[gloomy fern]

dhs are garbage

[crimson palm]

They all pop army p2, it gets back in time for p3

[hollow escarp]

when people mix mythic and hc discussion

[gentle gyro]

^

[wet ruin]

yeah

[gloomy fern]

its literally in mythic

[gentle gyro]

also be nice to the dh, he gives you a damage boost

[gloomy fern]

they are just there for magic amp

[hazy crater]

well yeah thats what they do, but we discussed should they

it does get back in time for p3 but would make lust timing problematic

for some classes

[hollow escarp]

why invite a 200 ilvl dh in mythic denathrius ?

[oak jungle]

longer p3 = bigger parse duh

[gloomy fern]

because we had no other dh? and u neeed it in p2 and p3 for boosting dmg basically

[hollow escarp]

well yeah

I guess it's better some damage than no damage

if you can't fill 20 people

[gloomy fern]

no we could bring anothe class, u bring him for the raid buff..

[final star]

No DH tank in the year 2021

You really do hate to see it

[hollow escarp]

we didn't had warriors for our last raid

and we don't have warlock

[gloomy fern]

the guy literally got 1/10M with sire kill

[shadow helm]

que?

destro broken

[final star]

my guild seems to be running brew/veng

literally ez buffers

[hollow escarp]

I have my warlock parked outside the raid just to pop healthstones

on 2nd account

[hazy crater]

Hmm well I'll try things out

[shadow helm]

assass scaling spec??

[subtle tundra]

agility be poppin

[shadow helm]

theotar better soulbind

[glacial quarry]

only thing that holds me back with assass is i never bothered to do the ass mage tower

[true fractal]

what for?

[glacial quarry]

the mog ofc

[final star]

I did

[glacial quarry]

it was the easiest one too

[sick cairn]

if im making doomblade what are the 2 stats? haste and versa?

[vestal wren]

yes, scaling well with buffs

[vital crown]

if you want to pvp yeah else you should go haste/crit

[sick cairn]

is haste verse also viable in pve?

[vital crown]

is the lashing scars conduit worth using over lethal poisons and well placed steel?

its okay

[final star]

Yes lashing scars is best

[vital crown]

but ideally you want haste/crit on as much gear as you can

but if you're gonna pvp too then haste/versa isnt bad

[vestal wren]

lashing is tuned higher than most other conduits

at least for sub/sin

[lament mica]

better than most spec conduits ive seen

[vital crown]

so lashing and then what other conduint? well-placed steel? or lethal poisons?

[lament mica]

the convoke one is pretty dumb

[vestal wren]

wps usually

but best is always to just sim it

[vital crown]

in the queu for that

[final star]

Nadjia only uses one potency in ST for me

[vital crown]

yeah true because you want that dauntless duelist thing

[final star]

3% damage to main target is bonkers good

[vital crown]

what do you think of theotars wasteland propriety tho

[final star]

The haste buff from nadjia is objectively better than the mastery buff

Tubbins & Gubbins can fuck off

[hollow escarp]

it's nice in M+

[strange python]

Canny figure asss out in m+

[final star]

Just hit mob

[strange python]

But i wanna pump

[final star]

Use CT

And rupture more

And garrote more

[hollow escarp]

fok envenom more

[frank sail]

For M+ you need to utilise 5 CP pooling before the next set of adds to ensure slice n dice is up fully otherwise its a nightmare attempting the rotation,

[spice spire]

Another thing is, use your cds more. Don’t hold your covenant ability, use that shit on cooldown

[hollow escarp]

mfd snd

[gentle gyro]

mfd

[spice spire]

Prio add like a helion in spires? Pop vendetta

[frank sail]

And what is mfd?

[hollow escarp]

mark for death

[frank sail]

Ooh marked for death yeah nah

[gentle gyro]

marked for death, talent that gives you 5 cp instantly

[frank sail]

Don't use that for M+

[final star]

Mgd is goated

[hollow escarp]

????????

[frank sail]

I*

[spice spire]

MfD is super solid in M+ hol’ up

[final star]

MfD is humungous for m+

[hollow escarp]

30 sec cd for a free full cp bar

[frank sail]

I hold roughly 5-5.5k avg dps in m+ without it and haven't needed it

[hollow escarp]

yeah, don't use that

[spice spire]

It’s personal preference for me not to because I tend to ape out in mythics

[gentle gyro]

i didn't say don't use it

i just don't like it personally

[spice spire]

But like it’s HUGE

[hollow escarp]

6-6.4k while playing mfd, must be lucky crits and good pulls

[final star]

I've had 6.6k with mfd

[frank sail]

I haven't had a need to use it at all... triple garrote > for > rupture 1 > for build for 5cp CT > repeat for and rupture unruptured targets > garret on CD

[hollow escarp]

mfd goes well with flaggelation as well

[frank sail]

What ilvl you at though?

[hollow escarp]

223

[gusty mortar]

If you use mfd correctly you have infinite cp

[frank sail]

Exactly.. I'm 213 in M+ gear

[strange python]

My boss dmg with mfd is absurdly high, but my trash dmg is stupid low

[final star]

221 or some shit

Outlaw is just flat out more overall dps though

So it don't matter

😩

[gusty mortar]

I played assa this week and boss/prides melt

[hollow escarp]

I think I did a key with a necro outlaw

[gusty mortar]

Not like packs stay alive long with a mage and boomkin in group

[hollow escarp]

lemme check the ss

[final star]

Rogue in general deals well with pride

Because we are consistent damage every pull

[hollow escarp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/820297719243341844/unknown.png

outlaw is better

[strange python]

Yeah, I just need to optimize my task packs in M+

[strange python]

Trash even

[final star]

[dense bramble]

why the fuck did i get a sword from callings chest? If were a dagger would be an upgrade :((((((((((((

[final star]

Nice outlaw loot spec

[strange python]

I feel like a shitter in 224 gear doing like 5.5-6.1

[gusty mirage]

Doesn’t affect callings chest

[final star]

Outlaw flat out better change my mind

[strange python]

My OL steamroller.

[final star]

First SS was +16 mists, second is +15 though

So that changes it a bit tbh

I need to get rid of the numbers at the start of the bar

Useless

[verbal vessel]

a brewmaster o:

haven't seen one of those in a while

[strange python]

I honestly just go oL for keys

[agile geode]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3VJuZBNtZbEXQ5DysFy8sC

guys

[final star]

Every tank is viable in a 15

[strange python]

It’s just less stress

[agile geode]

why sims tell me to not put haste

whit that sim im at 16% feels kinda weird

[final star]

Cos crit will give you more dps per point of crit in that specific gear

[strange python]

@hollow escarp when I sim it tells me to replace my krakens eye with a haste gem, is this maybe an oversight?

[hollow escarp]

I don't use kraken's eye though

[strange python]

Lashing scars is best conduit right?

[hollow escarp]

for venthyr yeah

[dense bramble]

it is not outlaw loot spec cuz i don't even play outlaw :((((((((

[gusty mirage]

I’m pretty sure the sims don’t look at previous tier gems, which is probably why

[gusty mirage]

Calling chests are just random pieces, has nothing to do with your loot spec for some reason

[hollow escarp]

but 7 main stat is probably more valuable than 16 secondary

[dense bramble]

that's a bit frustrating

[gentle gyro]

wtf is wrong with people man

start a pf +14 group

readycheck, go

and then someone just stands afk at the start

not even offline, just afk

tilted out of my mind

[vocal karma]

Maybe something in RL came up which was really urgent? Sometimes there is nothing wrong with ppl but something happens - Not saying that ther are a lot of *** out there

[gentle gyro]

so you sign up for a key, you press yes on the readycheck and five seconds later you're gone

[queen galleon]

Better that he went afk at the start

than in the middle of it

just q for another one and it's fine

[gentle gyro]

was my own key

that's the problem

and finding good people for a +13 is, uh, hard

[queen galleon]

Do you need good people for a 13 ?

[lament dove]

I just remembered a run (not m+ though) where one person stayed at the entrance for like half of the instance, when he finally came back he said sorry, he was away because he had to take out the coffee to a customer...

[queen galleon]

Most of my run I have an afk at the start bcs I boost

but that add extra pressure on top of gold

[gentle gyro]

i have learned to get picky with who you invite into pug keys

[queen galleon]

[gentle gyro]

i usually say that I have no idea what I'm doing but somehow I'm still better than 95% of players

[queen galleon]

Feels like i'm back in league

listening to that

[gentle gyro]

just glad i got to quit that

seraphine was the nail in the coffin

[queen galleon]

If it's a 15 or lower I don't really care

you can time that shit as 4

so

[lofty shell]

not with ppl u find in lfg

[gentle gyro]

^

[lofty shell]

u can go in with a class u never played, smash 1 button, and still beat pug boomies

[gentle gyro]

I boost guildies through 14s 15s all the time, it's not hard

but people are bad

[lofty shell]

ye i see why ppl are picky on inviting ppl

but it sucks none the less

[queen galleon]

If it's your key you can be picky as you want

who cares

But i'm kinda interested in what is your metric to judge people on

Bcs atm every monkey on earth got KSM

[gusty mortar]

[lofty shell]

achievs don't mean anything tho

ppl buy boosts, get boosted by guild

same for rio score tbh

[queen galleon]

Then on what do you base your opinion

RIO XD ?

[tender fjord]

I have 2k+ rio ppl applying to 14s and 15s I queue with guildies. Getting good people is ez

[lofty shell]

u cant

that's the whole point

[gentle gyro]

while ksm is not worth much, it's the best we have

[lofty shell]

that' the point flint is making

[tender fjord]

Amount of keys timed above 15 is pretty good value to check

If it’s just a few I doubt instantly

[lofty shell]

either u play with ppl u know or go into a clownfiesta with pugs 90% of the time

[sinful island]

you just don't invite ppl that have 8 +15 runs, because they were obvious boosts

[lament dove]

lol

[tender fjord]

I pugged my way last week through +17s, wonderful experience of you take your time

See who replies in /p

[lament dove]

you never had 8 +15? you began with like 25?

[tender fjord]

If not, bye

[gentle gyro]

17s is too high for most people that get boosted, those keys are easier than any random 14s

[tender fjord]

Not the discussion, we’re talking about making sure you get a good group together

[lofty shell]

same discussion tbh

[gentle gyro]

no, but the expansion has been out for some time now

[sinful island]

I was doing my keys this time and it was a bit later than month ago, so boosted +15 weren't common.

[lofty shell]

cuz amount of 15+ complete OBV is a metric for most ppl here

[tender fjord]

You are not Greenpeace, you can make your own groups and there are plenty of people to choose from in queue

[lofty shell]

so how do u get +15 done if u have no guild group and no 25 +15 done

[gusty mortar]

Open ur own

[queen galleon]

Got KSM very early on S1, If you delete my boost run I look like someone that got boosted

[gusty mortar]

Find random people

[queen galleon]

But I just wait S2

[tender fjord]

That’s the problem of the person applying to a group, not the person starting a group

[lofty shell]

ppl applying for a group see rio and completions same as for applying a group

dont see how it changes anything tbh

[gusty mortar]

Work ur way up

[lament dove]

with your own key:)

[lofty shell]

yea guess it's easy enough for most ppl ^^

[queen galleon]

I must have been lucky tho, most of my pug went ok

some where clown fiesta

[gusty mortar]

Never had problems besides once

[queen galleon]

but mooost of them were ok

[sinful island]

people tend to yell about that one run when someone went afk/left the group/failed hard

[gusty mortar]

People just have 1k and think they can say you are 1.2k you suck apply to 1.8k above and than wonder why they get declined

[sinful island]

and ignore all other 5-10 good usual runs

[lament dove]

^^yeah, this

[gusty mortar]

You need to start with a low base and start playing higher

[hollow escarp]

or just do your own key

all the time

[gusty mortar]

Or that yes

[hollow escarp]

even if you have done it before

meet new people

add to bnet the good ones

[queen galleon]

If loot was not garbo in m+

I would have push this season

[gusty mortar]

People just need to realise there is no short way to get to play with other good people as long they don't know you no one will accept you with low cr in high cr or in a CE guild when you have 2/10m

[glacial quarry]

also really cannot stress enough the whole 'find a guild'/'find a nice group of people' part

[queen galleon]

2/10

[glacial quarry]

not just because it's easier, but it's kind of the core idea of an mmo

[gusty mortar]

Especially playing a non "fotm" class

[gloomy fern]

sin is the fotm what you on about

[gusty mortar]

It's coming now

What was the rest of sl release

[glacial quarry]

even as fotm it's rough because there's nearly always someone with slightly more gear or rio than you applying

if you're going to be a pug-only andy, then roll a tank

[gusty mortar]

Well that's both in ur hands

[gloomy fern]

who cares about the rest of the exp, fotm literally dont refer to that

[gusty mortar]

Right not like everyone saw the rogue thing in mdi with nw and after that everyone wanted a rogue in the key

People see shit and want to copy it

[dense bramble]

what was that?

[queen galleon]

Orb

with MA

fixed now

[hollow escarp]

it's not only that, all pushing top groups right now have a rogue in their comp

[dense bramble]

i see

[hollow escarp]

and it wasn't only for the NW MA interaction

mostly for mob control and utility

that's why outlaw is preferred over sin

[dense bramble]

btw i'm pushing my +13 key
what r.io should i look for when inviting?

[hollow escarp]

more utility, more damage

[tame basin]

Hey, is Assasination finally viable in ST / M+?

[hollow escarp]

bigger than yours

[glacial quarry]

take a rogue so you can save 10g on invis pots

[hollow escarp]

don't boost people 😉

[queen galleon]

Best boss damage dealer

[hollow escarp]

kidney, blind, gouge

[dense bramble]

i'm 950 so around 1k is fine for 13+?

[hollow escarp]

should be fine

[queen galleon]

R.io means nothing at this point

[umbral rapids]

🤔

[hollow escarp]

if you have a good key that some classes want for Valor gear, you will get a lot of high io to apply

[hollow escarp]

that won't make me invite somebody with 800 in a +15

[glacial quarry]

yes this measure of what someone has completed and what they have not is useless

[hollow escarp]

I just check +15s done in time

[queen galleon]

what "they" done ?

[tender fjord]

Because of valor system there are ppl with insane rio applying to every key. Ofc its harder but the difference isn’t that big imo

[mellow pier]

tfw u did ksm 3 months ago then 1 weekly key from then out

So now you’re behind in io

[queen galleon]

this

[glacial quarry]

7-9 is the drought area

[queen galleon]

Get ksm -> boost -> bored to push -> behind prior client in rio

[mellow pier]

But you’re still better than the 1.8k+ crowd

[queen galleon]

[glacial quarry]

not being able to get into a 2 on my low geared alts because a horde of 220s are signing up is so garbage

[hollow escarp]

I mean, do a +16

[upbeat umbra]

This

[hollow escarp]

+15s are usually ranked 100k in the world because people don't do higher keys than that

[tender fjord]

I suppose that’s right. Even if I boost guildies I don’t go below 10’s because it’s boring AF

[subtle kiln]

or just list your own key and invite the 220s

[queen galleon]

As I said, rio means shit, I mean, I don't need 1k6 to do my weekly so I don't really care

pushing mine

[lament dove]

well what's the point in doing higher? other than e-peen?

[umbral rapids]

Fun ?

Challenge ?

Pushing yourself through harder content ?

[mellow pier]

Is it harder tho?

Not for us it is not

[upbeat tinsel]

lol

[tender fjord]

Slamming your head into a wall until you conquer finally?

[queen galleon]

At some point it get harder

Can't say otherwise

[hollow escarp]

it's a time challenge

[mellow pier]

It gets harder for the tank or healer. It really doesn’t change much for us tbh

[hollow escarp]

it's not like you wipe on a mythic boss for 4 weeks

[gusty mortar]

Diablo greater rift is better than m+

[hollow escarp]

you have to do that in 40 mins

[umbral rapids]

Lol

[gusty mortar]

🙂

[upbeat tinsel]

I don't do 20s because I did 15 keys 2 months ago is like I don't play at 3k arena rating because I hit 1600 rating in january

[hollow escarp]

because you can do it solo and don't have to play with monkeys

[gusty mortar]

Trueeeee

[mellow pier]

They should scale score

Imo

[hollow escarp]

tyranical should score higher

[glacial quarry]

there's nothing better than getting a good m+ squad and knocking out some push keys

keys with the lads

[peak smelt]

No it’s like you hit 21-2400 and stopped pvping and people did

[mellow pier]

A system where everyone pushes on 1 week is not a good prog system

[cunning surge]

This is why I like Torghast; it can be done solo and I don't have to rely on shitters that will deplete my key

[gusty mortar]

Had a dk die to first halls boss saying I hate tyrannical

[umbral rapids]

Ok. But that doesn’t make the push irrelevant

[glacial quarry]

torghast is so much better in a group tho

[gusty mortar]

[mellow pier]

Yes it does

[umbral rapids]

That’s a totallt different issue

[queen galleon]

Free MM+ week abuser

[hollow escarp]

I prefer Torghast solo

[umbral rapids]

lmao

[gusty mortar]

Whoever is doing Torghast as a rogue in a group has lost all meaning

[lament dove]

Torghast is good until you do TC L8, but weekly farm at this point is just a chore

[cunning surge]

I'll agree with that, Stray

[hollow escarp]

just skip all floors

[umbral rapids]

I cba solo’ing that it’s boring as shit

[hollow escarp]

to last boss

[cunning surge]

Hopefully 9.1 breathes more life into it

[glacial quarry]

weekly farm for torghast is garbage

they should let you just do a TC layer to get all your soul ash at least

[lament dove]

yeah, I skip it but that's my point, it kinda lost it's magic

[glacial quarry]

doing 2 separate torgs zzzz

[queen galleon]

Thorghast weekly loot inshallah

[hollow escarp]

are you one of those guys that complain they can't craft a new fotm legendary?

[queen galleon]

Stacking ashe like there is no tomorrow start to feel exhausting

[gusty mortar]

[mystic surge]

whats the master assassin opener?

[hollow escarp]

mut snd mut

[queen galleon]

check the pin -> rupture -> enjoy

[mellow pier]

Look at your sim sequence

[lament dove]

no, because I didn't craft every legandary, I only use zoldyck anyway since I don't raid atm

[queen galleon]

I just stack ashes bcs of the little voice in my head saying "yeah but what if when you can get 2 legendary at the same time this one is second bis"

[glacial quarry]

i want to stack ash but play like 5 chars

the weekly soul ash grind kills alts

[queen galleon]

10 Thorghast run a week, you mad lad

[glacial quarry]

in reality, i just have a system where half my chars are the neglected kid under the stairs on some weeks

[gentle gyro]

i don't even run torghast anymore...

[glacial quarry]

and then they briefly get a show of affection when i cba taking them through torg

[gentle gyro]

fuck that place

[umbral rapids]

I have too many to craft I’m regretting not doing it for months

[tender fjord]

Have you not done a key higher this week than last week?

[queen galleon]

I mean, it's always better than Legion legendary loot system

[glacial quarry]

worst is my druid, since i play guardian, feral, and balance

the wakening essence system was ok at the end of legion

[queen galleon]

Finality then MA then Celerity then zoldyck then doomblade

[cunning surge]

Yeah at the end it got cleaned up to be more accessible, at the start of the legendaries tho it was a s s

[queen galleon]

It was "more" accessible at argus

[glacial quarry]

ye, i remember getting will on my rogue as my first legendary, after absolutely ages

[queen galleon]

and it was still a grind

[cunning surge]

[torn atlas]

I dunno if they improved it, but it used to be rerolling the key repeatedly until you get a favourable layout, then relying on rng to get too pylons. It's different but wouldn't say it's better.

[glacial quarry]

i would take a higher initial grind if we got the legendary at 235 tbh

[grim hornet]

Yo, reading pins and siming, i sim more in patchwerk with deeper rather than vigor. Is that the case for some of u?

[upbeat tinsel]

yeah

[umbral rapids]

Celerity then pvp ma then outlaw ma then doomblade

[queen galleon]

Imagine

you clean all past tier LFR NORMAL HEROIC AND MYTHIC

then your hear a noice

then that

[tender fjord]

Yes

[queen galleon]

nightmare fuel

[torn atlas]

With ST set up and Doomblade I do. With M+ and Zold I don't.

[umbral rapids]

Imagine if i could scrap the pvp ma

Sadge

[glacial quarry]

man i hated doing lfr etc soooo much

[cunning surge]

[glacial quarry]

being able to scrap legendaries would be nice

[grim hornet]

ok guys, tyvm 🙂

[queen galleon]

I just wish blizzard let us change stats on legendary item when we want

Instead of having to recraft it

Oh stats prio changed ? to bad

[glacial quarry]

i just wish blizz would stop taking good initial ideas then caking it in as much horse shit as possible

[upbeat tinsel]

blizzard really isn't too concerned with the stat minmaxing of minor shifts in priority, I suspect

[glacial quarry]

shadowlands is the theatre of butchered ideas

[upbeat tinsel]

seems like a "save us from ourselves" problem

[torn atlas]

But they need shit to polish so we appreciate them when they add "qol" updates.

[glacial quarry]

torghast looked so fun in the beta, but they did everything they could to turn it into an utter chore in live

[grim hornet]

why does quick sim opens with mutilate from stealth instead of garrote?

cause of MA talent?

[mystic surge]

damn assassination pumps on huntsman

[queen galleon]

Mutilate give you more chance to gain cp

[torn atlas]

Torghast as a concept was fun as fuck at release. It just doesn't have the staying power for something you need to do as a weekly chore.

[mystic surge]

Shadowlands feels just like legion

[glacial quarry]

even then, doing torghast once a week is fine

key word there

[queen galleon]

no

[glacial quarry]

ONCE

[heavy coral]

!bis

[mystic surge]

Fun at start, boring next 2 patches, good last patch

[glacial quarry]

having to do it twice kind of yikers

[tender fjord]

On ST yes

[hollow escarp]

I'd rather do that weekly chore than farming LFR for "legendaries" in legion

[upbeat tinsel]

the little gimmicky things at least make it less stale, like beasts of torghast or that potion thing from this week - less stale isn't a glowing endorsement, but yeah

[hollow escarp]

[heavy coral]

[glacial quarry]

also making us grind all 8 layers on alts at the start, literal trolling

[hollow escarp]

use droptimizer ma man

[heavy coral]

yeah, i think i have to

[queen galleon]

Just give us back ToS

and Sub ToS

[glacial quarry]

ToS was a terrible raid

[queen galleon]

I won't complain about soaking a promise

[grim tree]

Zoldyk is good for m+??

[mystic surge]

Nighthold was the best legion raid

nothing comes close

[glacial quarry]

NH was top tier

[tender fjord]

Doing thorghast with ppl you know is pretty fun. However that is not what I do every week because sometimes you just have to rush it to be ready for raid on Wednesday. It would be nicer if it’s fun every week

[spice spire]

Torghast is only the play when you’re jamming with homies

Otherwise it’s just a content grind

[glacial quarry]

how many people do skoldus halls, enjoy the fun kooky build they get, then finish it and go "do you know what i really want to do? this, all over again, but in coldheart 🙃 "

[mystic surge]

Skoldus halls is fine

[final star]

NH was probably the best raid they've ever made thematically and encounter wise as a whole

[mystic surge]

I despise Mortregar

[glacial quarry]

skoldus is great

having to do 2xtorghast is zzzzzzzzzz

[torn atlas]

Generally yeah.

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/they-had-us-in-the-first-half-not-gonna-lie-gif-13620240

[queen galleon]

Surprisingly, the best thing for me this Xpac was RBG

[cunning surge]

I personally HATE Soulforge
Place is mad annoying

[spice spire]

Cold heart

[queen galleon]

i had so much fun as a rogue in RBG

[lament dove]

I don't even know which is which in Torghast, just bring them all on

[mystic surge]

Yes and soulforge

[tropic echo]

is it crazy to run poison bomb in normal dungeons for 50-60? feels like enemies aren't alive long enough for me to get proper value from CT

[mystic surge]

mortregar and soulforges are the worst

[gusty mirage]

Same, I got to catch up on all my shows on my 2nd monitor while I AFKd gold mine

[mystic surge]

Dont play assassinaton below 10+ keys imo

[spice spire]

Coldheart and soul forge are the worst imo. Big pulls into getting bounce houses ain’t it

[glacial quarry]

i ran CT 50-60 and got mad value out of it

[mystic surge]

Assassination is way better in higher keys

[queen galleon]

AFK MINE is my motto, sometimes the ennemy rogue try to spice the rbg for me and him it's

220 gear earlier than most of my guild raider was also pog

[grim hornet]

where do u fit SBS into sin ST rotation?

[queen galleon]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[mystic surge]

i have a question

It says to mutilate after u vanish in the rotation

So u dont ambush from vanish?

[mighty osprey]

more combo points with mutilate - plus bleed refresh (if doomblade)? that would be my reasoning

[mystic surge]

Ah

guess ill just take ambush off my stealth bar and just use it for blindside procs

[echo jackal]

Ambush is pretty much a blindside only thing from what I understand

[mystic surge]

thanks

[queen galleon]

You might want to envenom

after vanish

[mystic surge]

Yes if i have 5CP with strategem

[onyx wind]

The reason you only mutilate is because it can proc blindside

If youre not playing blindside u can ambush from stealth

[final star]

No

[spice spire]

Well, yes and no

[final star]

You mutilate because it gives 2-4 CP

Depending on mh/oh crits

[plain thistle]

and it can proc blindside

[final star]

As well

[spice spire]

The reasons listed above also work. But ambush at a base still does reward 2-3 points

Like ex isn’t wrong.

[forest nacelle]

does bonespike bleed count towards doomblade?

[spice spire]

But for the most part, mut is the play

[tender fjord]

Don’t overcap. I use them for cheap cps in Shiv windows

[mystic surge]

yees

@forest nacelle

[spice spire]

Yes

[forest nacelle]

hooooooooooooooooot ty

[onyx wind]

Combo points dont matter when ur casting SnD out of stealth

[tender fjord]

? You still want the SnD to last until your next envenom

Why wouldn’t you

[onyx wind]

How long does a 2 cp SnD last

check the tooltip

I think u will be surprised

[forest nacelle]

18 seconds

12 for 1 CP

[onyx wind]

So ur telling me u wont cast envenom in 18 seconds?

[forest nacelle]

rofl

i can cast a ruptre 5 CP and envenom 5 cp wth like 15% haste in that time

xD

[mystic surge]

u get 15 seconds of slice and dice with a 5cp envenom

[onyx wind]

If u already have SnD running and ur playing a dungeon boss or smth

then mut is better

[spice spire]

The combo points thing is just an easy thing to wrap your head around, when in reality there are many reasons to cast mut. So the default answer is fine. But there’s more than just that one reason to use Mut

[onyx wind]

Everything considered, ambush does more damage than mutilate

Even with doomblade

[harsh rampart]

What does this mean for sepsis. Do we also ignore the ambush use you get after the last tick?

[spice spire]

Don’t know about that one

[mystic surge]

@harsh rampart garrote

[onyx wind]

Go hit a dummy

[spice spire]

Between poison application, the Doomblade proc. The raw damage may be there; sure. But mutilate is more than the sum of its initial damage numbers

[tender fjord]

Ofc but still on big packs id rather go for 2 than 1cp

[queen galleon]

Only use ambush if it's free

[onyx wind]

We are not talking on big packs

On packs you cast garrote anyway

[onyx wind]

I dont understand what u mean sorry

[tender fjord]

Where did you specify not talking about big packs

[spice spire]

Big packs is not even in the equation. 60 CP for damaging one target isn’t where you want to be

[onyx wind]

When we were talking about mutilating from stealth

Otherwise it would be a pointless argument XD

[tender fjord]

Aight I missed that part then mb

[onyx wind]

Everything considered: Poison proc, double mut crit, doomblade

Ambush still does more damage

And thats even counting a full doomblade bleed

Which you wont have on an actual opener

[spice spire]

So mutilate is two hits correct, ex? We’ve determined that you can gain 4 CP from it. The initial deadly poison, doesn’t really deal damage.

It’s every hit after that that starts to pile on.

[onyx wind]

Yea but ambush also procs deadly poison 100% of the time from stealth

Just not the extra 200dmg proc

That mutilate does

[spice spire]

A double application of that, along with Doomblade, along with the CP is making it more favorable for the what, 10 energy?

[mystic surge]

@onyx wind i think u only do it in the opener

[onyx wind]

Do what

[mystic surge]

@onyx wind for the 4cp chance

mutilate instead of ambush

[onyx wind]

No thats the only time you dont do it XD

[spice spire]

Wait yeah

[onyx wind]

unless ur running blindside

then u always mut

[mystic surge]

yes

we said that

[onyx wind]

Yea i thought the same, but looking at the actual numbers its not better

[spice spire]

That’s the opposite of ex’s possibly good point. Lol. You do ambush for 3 points because your snd duration literally doesn’t matter in the opener

Do you have logs or a screenshot? I’d love to see and I won’t be able to test for another 9 hours

[onyx wind]

Uhh i can go hit a dummy and do some napkin math

[spice spire]

If not I’ll totally hold, but I’m now super curious

[onyx wind]

But mut did around 3k (with a full doomblade bleed) and ambush did 4k

assuming both crit ofc

[dark crag]

Mut is more cp

[onyx wind]

Yes but cp doesnt matter if ur casting SnD

and you dont get a full doomblade bleed ever

[glacial quarry]

now i have to find another kb for non-stealth ambush and not just swap with CT

[mystic surge]

@glacial quarry put it on a secondary bar

[spice spire]

Doesn’t matter if you’re casting SnD though. The argument ex is making here is that for the VERY FIRST thing you do, ambush is a fine choice

If you’re not running BS

[onyx wind]

^this

[spice spire]

Otherwise, always mut

[glacial quarry]

wait, nvm, i forgot, this is only for opening in stealth, so on the stealth bar it goes

so that means m+ bosses

open with ambush?

[onyx wind]

If ur not playing blindside yes

[glacial quarry]

assuming you don't have SnD ticking

[onyx wind]

And if u dont already have SnD

[dark crag]

What's the energy cost of both?

[spice spire]

This is pure situational right now

50 ambush, 60 mut

[onyx wind]

Also, mut full crit does 2k, full doomblade bleed is 900, poison proc is 300 if it crits (lets be generous)
Thats 3200

Ambush crit is 3900

And you dont get the full doomblade bleed ever

in a real scenario

[spice spire]

But it’s also at a weird point where you’re probably not running MA nor blindside on dungeons. As you’d prefer subterfuge + EP most of the time. And you’d more than likely be on zoldy

[dark crag]

Mut costs 60 energy?

[spice spire]

Interesting

[onyx wind]

The cost the same energy

[spice spire]

I haven’t looked at energy cost in a while, this is all iirc

I just punch the boss

[glacial quarry]

ngl, i just like using ambush because it reminds me of playing rogue back in wotlk/cata

[spice spire]

The animation is good too

[onyx wind]

Most raiding rogues who play EP/vigor are using ambush first global

I just couldnt take u guys shitting on them anymore

:(

[glacial quarry]

are those EP/vigor rogues really gimping themselves by running that or is BS only marginally better?

[spice spire]

Me ready to poop on fellow rogues

[onyx wind]

EP is better on shorter fights

and vigor is better with EP

hence why they are going that

For me, EP is better on 3 minutes or lower fights

[frigid kestrel]

Passassin goes EP/Vigor with 24 Pi's

[onyx wind]

Im guessing the breakpoint is somewhere between 3-4 minutes

[frigid kestrel]

He living the fread

[glacial quarry]

EP is also fewer buttons to hit

[frigid kestrel]

[dark crag]

I don't think the first global in an opener that needs to get a few things rolling first and then using the 2min cd will be all that big of an impact

[onyx wind]

No its not a big change, but most people here were making fun of them for it

Which was mean :(

[drifting light]

Kek, and I gave it away to Syn

[gloomy fern]

the dps diff is like 0 in the big scheme of things, but muti first with a chance of blindside proc will help you not wasting a gc in opener etc

[dark crag]

You assa guys were made fun of whole pre 9.0.5

[onyx wind]

Yea if you have blindside you always mut

and pray to RNG

[dark crag]

Now you start making fun of your fellow comrades

[gentle gyro]

just play subt and avoid all of this

[glacial quarry]

assa is now no longer scuffed feral

[onyx wind]

Assa is actually pumping hard

Would be nice to look at boss dmg logs with stone legion excluded

[glacial quarry]

ye, looking very strong in th elogs

[onyx wind]

Does someone know how to?

[glacial quarry]

also kind of sad because i switched onto rogue because of how much i enjoyed levelling it, but now i look like a fotm reroll

[onyx wind]

Since stone legion is destroying any meaning the overall logs have

[dark crag]

Click bossdmg

[final star]

Fixed an issue that could cause  Serrated Bone Spike's (Necrolord Ability) bleed effect to be unintentionally removed at significant ranges.```

[gentle gyro]

how so?

[final star]

Isn't that kinda good

[onyx wind]

No im already looking at boss dmg

[final star]

[onyx wind]

But assa rogues are allowed to tunnel boss on stone legion so

They have like 33% more boss dmg than 2nd highest

XD

Which skews the overall by a lot

[gentle gyro]

why does SLG skew logs?

[dark crag]

They are allowed? It's all they can do

[gentle gyro]

havent seen the mythic fight yet

[onyx wind]

Thats what i mean

[gentle gyro]

k

[onyx wind]

Its all they can do / they are allowed to

[subtle kiln]

and this is a concern?

[onyx wind]

Still i wouldnt think that makes them better on the fight for boss damage

just cause they cant do anything else

[subtle kiln]

this is rogue. lol

want aoe 👉🏻 #outlaw

[onyx wind]

Pretty sure most other classes could do close to similar damage if they were allowed to tunnel boss

So would be nice to see overall boss dmg across raid, SLG excluded

if anyone knows how to do that...

[dark crag]

They could do boss dmg but people are log whores

[lean coral]

You can sort wcl by damage to boss can't you

[final star]

but adds have to die

It's not pad

[glacial quarry]

i love assa's aoe

[final star]

if they have to die

[gloomy fern]

you cant really pad on SLG except when going from intermission to next phase that despawn

[spice spire]

18 sin rogues on SLG but 60 on sire

[final star]

The whole fight is controlled dps

that is the core of it

[spice spire]

Has to be instant aoe. Our aoe is not instant

[glacial quarry]

truuue, i just enjoy our aoe, even if it's slow af

[onyx wind]

Arent there some rogues playing CT on SLG?

[dense bramble]

is that chest piece from mists a BiS?

[final star]

out of the 18 logs

5 are using CT

[onyx wind]

And the #1 rogue used it and beat Passassin

Legend

gatekeeping him from full r1

[final star]

He always gets 4 PI though

[upbeat tinsel]

It's well-itemized, but likely depends on your personal stat weights. There's one just like it from the raid that's a bit haste heavier...I think?

[shut nymph]

do i use sudden fractures for single target as necro or do i go wps?

[spice spire]

WPS iirc but as always, you should just sim it

[shut nymph]

cheers

[forest nacelle]

if the dps between conduits is like 10 DPS should i even bother swapping?

tldr its WPS and LP

[spice spire]

Whatever you’re vibing with, 10 DPS isn’t much

[forest nacelle]

got it

guess ill stick to LP

xD

[arctic cloud]

i keep looking at the pins

[willow isle]

Do we use ambush in opener on st? Like garrote-ambush-garrote-SBS-rupture?

[arctic cloud]

and i really keep thinking asbout going NF

but im max venthyr 😦

[slender urchin]

Anyone have that PI chart

An updated one

For PI targets

Found it, nvm!!

[limber lion]

No, that opener is the worst possible opener in fact.

[heavy skiff]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/113kqcqy9ai37c8EBUJK-sWYciqQ9Tb7ctmCy_boDKdg/edit#gid=0

[limber lion]

When playing Subterfuge, you open with garrote > muti > snd

[arctic cloud]

would i be an idiot to swap form venthyr to NF ( yes ive studied pins)

[limber lion]

You don't want to double-garrote nor use ambush

[limber lion]

No, the damage is a bit weaker in ST but it's compararable in AoE

[willow isle]

Oh, okay. Thanks

[limber lion]

NF is a more versatile choice, doesn't get cucked by downtime and has the best signature ability in the gam

It's very well balanced and a great choice all around

[raw wren]

Anyone playing Necro sin?

[dense bramble]

i am

[limber lion]

Some are, it's pretty great.

[dense bramble]

really fun tbh

[arctic cloud]

I just dunno if im cucking myself if i go NF from Venthyr

[limber lion]

No.

[arctic cloud]

I just like the idea of Sepsis more than Flag

[limber lion]

You are not.

You can get 99 parses with any covenants

You can kill Mythic Sire with any covenant

Covenant will not be a deciding factor in M+ either

[pearl depot]

Hey all, i know wcraftlogs should be taken with a grain of salt but isnt sin supposed to be really good st? Looking at artificer, shriek, etc they hold very few spots in top 100. Looking deeper, the ones there have WAY more help too. Xmox first two I see 8 external buffs and 6 for the next. If youre getting that much love I assume a lot of specs will be good st.

[heavy skiff]

main reason i went venth is cause there is no venth in my M+ group

[glacial quarry]

yeah, main positive of venthyr, alongside simming top, is that lots of m+ groups miss a venthyr

nf is always assured

[limber lion]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#boss=2405
Well if you look at this, the assa rogue is #1 in dps

[heavy skiff]

wqe have like 3 nf

[thorny pond]

Ran a group on DoS the other day. 4 Venth and a Kyrian

[limber lion]

He does get a lot of PI's though but definitely not impossible.

[heavy skiff]

8 buffs i would like that

[pearl depot]

yeah saw that but i mean come on, dudes not gonna close to 1 without that.

8 is a ridiculous number of buffs XD

[onyx wind]

Wouldnt you want to Ambush->Garrote->SnD

To get the poison proc, or does garrote apply that

aswell

[gloomy fern]

i mean the fae buff didnt help him since he only got out 3 vendeettas anyway

[pearl depot]

true ture

[gloomy fern]

and most others in top 100 also get pis

[onyx wind]

assuming ur not playing blindside ofc

as always

[pearl depot]

i guess i expected to see at least a few up there with only a handful or no buffs. that being said, there ARE way fewer assassin rogues playing than fmages aff locks etc

so odds are in the old strong specs favor

[onyx wind]

Also a lot less geared rogues

pretty sure that the avg ilvl of say hunters is like 3-4 higher than an average rogue in top5%

Didnt do the math, but you can see for yourself

[vocal edge]

Looking at most of the top M shriek parses, they generally don't use shiv whereas all guides recommend to do so. Is there something that's changed where you don't want to shiv?

[onyx wind]

Its a bug, they use shiv

[vocal edge]

A bug with WCL?

[onyx wind]

Not really, with combat logs in general

But its been fixed now

So all newer logs should show shiv

[vocal edge]

Cool thanks

[wary ice]

If you look at Damage delt summaries you'll see the damage it does, If you're REALLY interested you can compare the event/timelines for damage dealt to find the second of shiv usage and compare it to the cast timeline for how they handle the window

moving forward it'll be a smaller pain in the ass cause like exeo said its fixed

[limber lion]

Wut. Mutilate does that. You don't ever want to use ambush when opening on a target.

[onyx wind]

Ambush does more damage everything considered

Ur casting SnD anyway

What am i missing

[wary ice]

Mut->garrote->snd is probably more damage tbh

[limber lion]

????

[wary ice]

using subt

[limber lion]

Aren't you a regular here

[worn path]

Remove ambush from your stealth bar and bind it to something else for broadside procs

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[edgy cloak]

!guide

[limber lion]

You're here every day

[onyx wind]

Its not more damage

Even with a full doomblade bleed

its less damage

[limber lion]

You're here every day

[onyx wind]

and even with the poison proc

What am i missing

[limber lion]

And this question gets asked at least 20 times a day

[worn path]

The chance for 4 cp instead of 3 and two hits for poison procs is better than ambush

[limber lion]

And you don't know that Muti > Ambush

[onyx wind]

Yea and u give the wrong answer every time

XD

[limber lion]

Whispyr has linked several sims here

Kojiyama has linked several sims

Everytime you Muti you have a 20% chance to proc Blindside

Everytime you Muti, you have a higher chance to proc poisons

[onyx wind]

No blindside talent ofc

[limber lion]

Everytime you muti, you have a higher chance to get more combo points

????????????????

[onyx wind]

Since ur running garrote its prob a m+ scenario

i mean subterfuge

[worn path]

You still don’t ambush

[wary ice]

Subt isnt that far behind in st, and theres a lot of raid fights that arent st

[onyx wind]

Shouldve clarified earlier that i meant no blindside ofc

[limber lion]

The dps difference is literally like 14 dps

[wary ice]

so running subt in raid isnt super out of left field

[onyx wind]

Why dont you ambush?

[limber lion]

It doesn't matter which ability you use honestly

Just use what you want

[onyx wind]

???

XD

[limber lion]

If it feels better to press Ambush, then go ahead

[wary ice]

the combo point gen is big tbh

[onyx wind]

But you cast SnD anyway

so combo points dont matter

[limber lion]

Koji already specified earlier that casting SnD at 3+ combo points is a gain

[wary ice]

Whos snd is it anyways