assassination

[limber lion]

Lust 4th pillar? Use cds on pull, 2nd pillar and 4th.
Lust 3rd pillar? Ues cds on 1st pillar and 3rd pillar

[vagrant oak]

The Red Rogue said it

Take it to the press

[balmy condor]

Yes, and it says so in the pins very bold

[gray fjord]

But I mean

I can't click pins

[balmy condor]

See

Zoldyck dead legendary

[gray fjord]

Why would I even, if I can just harass CFs. surprisedpikachu.gif

[wise gull]

it's not bold

can't read

[balmy condor]

If you omit some words

It’s true

[gray fjord]

If I am on a bender yes

I see everything so clearly now

[fleet whale]

i like how you say all covenants are close and then finish off with kyrian sucks lol

[balmy condor]

Fuck kyrian

But I’m gonna say they’re all close enough

[limber lion]

Fuck kyrian

[gray fjord]

Kyrian as assassination must be a nightmare to hit the right CP

xD

Never even tried

[fleet whale]

yeah but even if kyrian in a vacuum is ok, ER just isn't that appealing to sin

[warped temple]

🙂

[limber lion]

To abuse Flag Assa in PvP or not, that is the question

[prisma crescent]

tyty

[fleet whale]

a more powerful envenom/rupture every 45 seconds just isn't as great as the power flag brings

[balmy condor]

It’s worse on sub

[fleet whale]

or the cleave of necro, or the busted soulbinds of fae

[vagrant oak]

What about an empowered CT in m+?

That's the only situation I can think Kyrian would be good and even then

Flag just gives more

[gray fjord]

Actually surprising considering you can predict shadow technique procs. Interesting.

[fallen current]

I was kyrian but I played it as outlaw and it wasn’t bad.

[balmy condor]

I’ll let you all in on a little secret

[gray fjord]

O:

[balmy condor]

Ready for this big secret

[gray fjord]

[fleet whale]

nah ER is easy to handle as sin

[fallen current]

But it was a nightmare as sub or sin

[gray fjord]

[fleet whale]

or i atleast thought it was

[fallen current]

Now I’m necro so it doesn’t matter.

[balmy condor]

the kyrian combo point is actually nonsense dps and often overrated

[subtle tundra]

i dont accept the truth

[balmy condor]

most of the kyrian dps is from the ability damage, the mini game is just there for fun

[ebon bramble]

how bad is poison bomb in aoe?

[limber lion]

It becomes good when you get the Torghast power that makes it a 30cp finisher

:^)

[balmy condor]

Quite bad

[fallen current]

20pt

Not 30

[gray fjord]

Honestly

[hollow escarp]

legion poison bomb

[livid temple]

Without lust I feel like my flag can land anywhere between 20-25 stacks (depending on procs) is that normal?

[ebon bramble]

lol legion poison bomb was...the bomb XD

[livid temple]

Legion kings Baine

[limber lion]

Yes

[gray fjord]

They could just take powers from Torghast to buff the rest of the covenant abilities to make them slap.

They did it with Flag kinda sorta

[vagrant oak]

Tbh I always thought that lashing scars was just the initial damage it buffed

Soon as I saw that it buffed everything I drooled a bit

[hollow escarp]

that was necrolord ability

got buffed on initial damage

[fallen current]

Yep. 300% buff

[vagrant oak]

Yeah I know that but I'm talking about how the conduit buffs flag damage

Speaking of Necro though, is it worth it now as well?

[fallen current]

Yep.

Vent is better for sin tho

[vagrant oak]

How does it go with exsanguinate? Did they fix that bug before release?

[fallen current]

Cause haste.

[balmy condor]

Oh yeh

[old summit]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

That got fixed hella fast

[vagrant oak]

Damnit

I was super hype

😭

[limber lion]

Nah, you can go in a raid and just solo-kill any raid boss

[balmy condor]

Imagine lagging out of the game halfway through sire

Cause the server can’t handle the tick rate

[limber lion]

Which dies first, the server or the boss

That's the quiz

[balmy condor]

That sounds intended

[gray fjord]

sorry was afk, what the exsan bone spike?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

On beta

[gray fjord]

xD Lul

[vagrant oak]

Yeah

[gray fjord]

Dude

Fracture spike was giga

[vagrant oak]

Absolutely bonkers

[balmy condor]

2^x damage scaling

[umbral pebble]

is there an accurate chart where i can see how much sin benefits from PI now?

[gray fjord]

That was like the Convoke for rogues but they killed it because of the reset on death I think

Even in raid it was kinda silly though, like 25% of overall xD

[balmy condor]

Depending on your definition of accurate, but there is a spreadsheet that floats around

[gray fjord]

I thought someone pinned it in #outlaw but I may be wrong

It's pretty low though if I remember right, though.

[balmy condor]

Sin is quite good

[limber lion]

Sin is huge

[gray fjord]

Outlaw it was stonks

Like 5% or something dumb

[balmy condor]

You want to basically PI uhdk during army

And then sin in execute

[gray fjord]

Oh I'm stupid, I was thinking WFT

[balmy condor]

And then it’s like sin, boomy, arcane, fire, mm

[storm forum]

I finally realized why I like Sepsis so much

[limber lion]

I simmed PI on myself at 3mins and it's 400 dps

[storm forum]

It's Kingsbane but less interesting

[vagrant oak]

Tbh I hated sepsis and how buggy it was with subterfuge

[limber lion]

7.1k vs 7.5k

It's pretty disgusting

[vagrant oak]

I miss soulshape but that's about it

[wise gull]

What about PI'ing sin on their opener so they don't hate themselves when running DS?

It's a strong argument

[limber lion]

PI won't stop me from hating myself

[gray fjord]

It's only like 1.3 energy per second for the whole fight though of a change

[limber lion]

A 226 Phial might

[balmy condor]

Imma be real

[vagrant oak]

Is Decanter from SD good as a trinket?

[balmy condor]

If you hate DS because of the first 5 seconds of a fight

You got other problems

[graceful mirage]

is the icyveins guide up to date with 905 stuff?

[limber lion]

It's decent in Aoe

[stoic needle]

Why are people so afraid of sin being slow

[vagrant oak]

Sweet, cheers

[stoic needle]

I want sin to be like rogue arms

[gray fjord]

Sin isn't even slow with Blindside

[graceful mirage]

sin being slow is nice

[stoic needle]

I want to be able to take a bowl hit between envenoms

[gray fjord]

I'm NF and I have like a 47 APM with deeper strat

[graceful mirage]

i like my slow-ish chill specs

[gray fjord]

That's not that bad really.

[stoic needle]

And have each envenom hit for 40k

[brisk drum]

sin is so slow compared to outlaw

[storm forum]

these people didn't play 0 haste legion sin

[balmy condor]

Good

[graceful mirage]

compared with utlaw which feels like ddr sometimes

[brisk drum]

yea im not complaining, but to say its not slow is a lie

[stoic needle]

Nobody's saying that

I want it to be SLOWER

[limber lion]

Who's saying that

[graceful mirage]

its slowER

[stoic needle]

Less hits

Harder hits

[vagrant oak]

I find it more engaging then press RTB hurr sure BF

[brisk drum]

i saw someone say that

deleted comment

!

jebaited

[graceful mirage]

kekw

[limber lion]

Man you trippin'

[stoic needle]

I want to be the first person to post a pic of a 100k envenom

[limber lion]

Just did a few skirmishes as Assa and remembered why I don't PvP.

[vagrant oak]

F

[graceful mirage]

anyways, is icyveins not up to date or something because leg recomendations are not the same as pins

[limber lion]

Even OP shit can't help you if you're shit at the game

[limber lion]

Then it's not

Because the pins are updated.

And the pins pretty much have all the information that you need.

[gray fjord]

This is the stuff

[balmy condor]

Ravenholdt is the most up-to-date, still have to do sim things for seli and the update process is slower for icyveins

[gray fjord]

Fresh out the oven

^

[vagrant oak]

100% trust Ravenholdt over any other source

[gray fjord]

Adding/editing things to a website takes time

[reef axle]

how do we filter pillar damage on wcl?

[stoic needle]

Wowhead isn't that bad actually

[gray fjord]

and people to do it, whereas here we can pin things easily.

[graceful mirage]

isn't the icyveins written by someone from here?

[balmy condor]

Well, the ravenholdt guide wasn’t updated for a while

[vagrant oak]

Other sources are good but you'll find it here first

[dense hamlet]

looking at pins take time for ppl aswell

[hollow escarp]

Seliathan

[balmy condor]

Wowhead is written by mystler, sin/outlaw icyveins is written by seliathan

[subtle tundra]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

They’re both in here

Both CF’s

[gray fjord]

Some people still don't know what pins are. It's kinda scary to think. xD

[balmy condor]

And both very good players

[graceful mirage]

i mostly want it as something to have handy

so its better to have the guide than having to search pins and stuff

[prisma marsh]

hey guys, MA's still the choice to go for sin rogues in M+ right? even after the nerf?

[graceful mirage]

of course i look here for in depth stuff

[balmy condor]

MA was never really the choice

[hollow escarp]

guides don't get updated as often to get fresh info as you can get from a class discord

[wise gull]

I don't hate DS, I just hate the first 5 seconds of the fight

[dense hamlet]

yeah i didnt know they exist but they are coming out of theyr caves man u have to be ready

[balmy condor]

But you can run it, sure

[gray fjord]

If you're a multi-spec rogue

MA isn't bad

[prisma marsh]

i only just found this discord now, trying to catch up, used to play rogue back in mop

[gray fjord]

It's solid enough to be a DPS gain for sure

[vagrant oak]

Seems like good value of MA and Zoldyck in m+, both have perks

[graceful mirage]

yeah MA is versatile

but its not optimal in anything

[balmy condor]

Back in your corner yellow man

[gray fjord]

T_T

💔

[balmy condor]

Welcome welcome

[graceful mirage]

unless its broken like it used to be pre 905

[graceful mirage]

ey, you basically stopped playing a bit earlier than i did

[gray fjord]

@balmy condor I MADE DOOMBLADE FOR UUUUUUUU!! ToT

[stoic needle]

[prisma marsh]

ahh, just trying to read up on sim's and reviews between zoldyck vs MA for M+ haha

[balmy condor]

Speaking of welcome

[prisma marsh]

tyy ❤️

[balmy condor]

We did it btw

[prisma marsh]

yeahh i stopped just before the WoD fiasco haha

[dense hamlet]

dude i got inerva memory and replaced skulker and its like the biggest upgrade im so happy my character is not teleporting to random places anymore

[limber lion]

Eyy let's go

[gray fjord]

100k Stonkers

[graceful mirage]

i stopped because WoD

also because all my friends stopped playing

[gray fjord]

Ironically the only expansion I never played during was Cata

[stoic needle]

Welcome to the ex-skulkers support group

[balmy condor]

I started in wod

[hollow escarp]

I never quit the game because of the game

[graceful mirage]

Cata was hella fun imo

[balmy condor]

[graceful mirage]

i started in BC but in private servers

[stoic needle]

Ngl I don't miss having on use trinkets at all now that I use 2 passives

[hollow escarp]

7.3 baby here

[graceful mirage]

joined retail at cata release

[gray fjord]

I just didn't like them changing the talent system and changing the landscape so it was a huge turnoff. I got over it obviously. lol

[graceful mirage]

played until wod

unpopular opinion, i actually liked the cata talent system

[limber lion]

Hey, same.

[hollow escarp]

you raided in ToS aswell?

[graceful mirage]

but i can understand blizzards logic in changing it to whats now

[hollow escarp]

ToS was my first hc raiding guild

[limber lion]

I started in TBC, played a two-handed melee hunter until level 24 then quit. Played a lot in Cata, quit after Firelands HC. Started again in 7.3 Argus

[strange python]

HFC boi

[graceful mirage]

which one was ToS?

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I played casually on private servers but I never raided or did anything end game

[balmy condor]

ToS was 7.2

[vagrant oak]

Today's my first day really engaging in the disc and already enjoying myself, is nice!

[limber lion]

Antorus was my first raiding experience and it's one of two cutting edges that I have lmao

[hollow escarp]

hmm

[limber lion]

Yeah, Antorus is 7.3

[graceful mirage]

this disc is hella nice

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/no-u-keanu-reeves-no-you-you-pointing-gif-16078064

[limber lion]

Just don't visit #outlaw or #off-topic and you'll be fine

[hollow escarp]

wait, I never did M+ in ToS?

[graceful mirage]

kekw

[hollow escarp]

just checked my rio profile

[vagrant oak]

Oh yeah, next query

[balmy condor]

Wow what’s wrong with off topic that’s where all the homies live

[vagrant oak]

What tier 3 talent for m+? MFD any good or still Vigor?

[hollow escarp]

ohh, when I started it was still ToS but Argus was on the sky

[balmy condor]

Mfd is good, but vigor/deeper is all fine

[vagrant oak]

Wait deeper is good now? Hold up

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

M+ combinations for sin is actually a fucking travesty

Nightstalker subterfuge and ma are pretty good

Vigor deeper and mfd are all pretty good

[gray fjord]

Or it's ret pally where everything is fine if you do it right xD

[limber lion]

Exactly, it's the perfect place for the oldies but not the best place for a newbie

[balmy condor]

Even CT/HB/PB is kind of a toss up honestly

And you have like 4 conduit options

And 4 legendary options

Really it’s just a crap shoot

[gray fjord]

That's literally retribution paladin, Whispyr. You can change so many talent options and end up within a tight tolerance of damage range

[limber lion]

Sounds like it's quite balanced

Yuk

[gray fjord]

At least it was in BfA

[limber lion]

Imagine balancing things

Where's the op shit

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

There’s like 20 different m+ builds that sim within 3%

[stoic needle]

I really want to run ns MfD ct

[gray fjord]

Jeeze

[vagrant oak]

So is there any optimal combination then? I like options but not really sure wheres best for what

I'd generally be using CT and Elaborate Planning

[balmy condor]

Usually ep Subt vigor alac ct

Is the widely considered optimal

[vagrant oak]

Yeah that's what I currently use

[balmy condor]

It’s also not trash to play

[limber lion]

This also feels the best to play imo

[balmy condor]

Unlike NS CT or something

Which is questionable playstyle

[hollow escarp]

master poisoner for extra slow on mobs

[vagrant oak]

Lol truth

[balmy condor]

No we don’t do that

This is an MP free zone

[stoic needle]

Just @ me next time

[balmy condor]

We don’t use MP, venom rush, or exsang

Otherwise play whatever the fuck you want

[vagrant oak]

Leeching Poison lessgo

[balmy condor]

Leeching is good

[limber lion]

Our guild's analyst asked me if I could run Master Poisoner on SLG for the extra effect on Numbing Poison

... but I'm forced to play Outlaw on that fight

[balmy condor]

Your guild has an analyst who’s also very bad at analysis?

[hollow escarp]

guild analyst?

[limber lion]

Seems to be a common issue

[warped temple]

guild analyst hell yea

[balmy condor]

Numbing on a 5 minute sludge kill

Ready for this

[stoic needle]

Get better healers? No. It is the rogues who just sacrifice their dps for more attack speed slows

[balmy condor]

Take a guess how many auto’s you save

Over the 5 minute fight

[stoic needle]

[gray fjord]

13

[fallen current]

5

[gray fjord]

:3

[balmy condor]

Ooh close

[signal gulch]

2

[stoic needle]

6?

[balmy condor]

4-5 is the correct answer

[gray fjord]

Damn

[fallen current]

I win!

[limber lion]

Huge

[balmy condor]

MP would increase that by 30%

For a whopping

5-6

[limber lion]

Insane

[balmy condor]

And it only comes at a 3% damage loss or something

seems fine to me

[stoic needle]

Absolutely massive

New rogue utility meta inc

[fallen current]

I assume legs for zold?

[balmy condor]

Yep

[vagrant oak]

Yes

[limber lion]

Leggies for Zoldies

[vagrant oak]

Damnit I have an r4 zold but R1 of Doomblade and MA

Not sure what to prioritise

[balmy condor]

Do you raid?

[vagrant oak]

Both, keys focused atm

[balmy condor]

Would make doomblade

Just run the zold in keys

[vagrant oak]

Yeah that makes sense

PvP wise would you still use Doomblade too?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stoic needle]

I'm only ranking up my ma because I want to play law on some fights

[vagrant oak]

Magic.

[stoic needle]

Fuck celery I wish I could get my ash back

[balmy condor]

Yeah some super chill 75 apm law

[limber lion]

A lot of traitors in this chat

[strange python]

Playing sin on arti tonight and was fooken blasting

[stoic needle]

Ez, watch netflix while playing law

[strange python]

Was too dps deep into the last phase till I died cos sum boob out the portal on the boss instead of on the mark

[neat smelt]

hey everyone,outlaw boy here wanting to try out assa,whats a good resource (website or video) for me to check all-things assa for 9.0.5,from rotation to stat prio/lego choice etc

[stoic needle]

If multispeccing so I can get into a good guild makes me a traitor, so be it

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Ravenholdt one is for sure updated

[reef axle]

so.....think theyl nerf phial?

[balmy condor]

Personal recommendations on that

[stoic needle]

Nope, they just buffed Phial in fact

By 10%

[hollow escarp]

icy veins

[strange python]

@balmy condor are there any hidden interactions that people miss a lot when playing sin

[reef axle]

every time i queue, the majority of the grp is after phial lol

[balmy condor]

They “buffed” trinkets by changing some backend rounding stuff

[strange python]

Or like just big mistakes

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[strange python]

And not just whis anyone

[balmy condor]

Uh people think MA works on trinkets, shiv works on trinkets

And neither do

But really sin is very easy

Maintain everything

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Shiv on cooldown

[limber lion]

Don't realize that pandemic is a thing.

[balmy condor]

Vend/cov on cd

Yeah pandemic is important

[limber lion]

I gotta be honest

[solar hare]

I havent played sin much, just curious why opener always says mutilate>ambush? Cuz it attacks with offhand too can gen 4cp where ambush can only do 3?

[strange python]

When would you hold shiv?

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[limber lion]

I was progressing on mythic Argus and I didn't know about pandemic

[balmy condor]

OH BABY NEW BOT COMMAND

[solar hare]

Ty

Oh i was right

Ez

[balmy condor]

When vendetta is coming up in the next 10ish seconds

[strange python]

Cool need doing that right then

Cheers

Just getting used to the opener is a bit weird I’m so used to spamming fuck out of my keyboard on sub and OL

But sin is so chill

[balmy condor]

You can still spam

[hollow escarp]

reminded me that my guild quit at Aggrammar

[balmy condor]

I spam

It just doesn’t do anything

[limber lion]

😦

[strange python]

I’ll just end up with carpel tunnel for no reason

[hollow escarp]

spam for fun

[limber lion]

Argus was one of the better fights, it was so much fun

[hollow escarp]

even on hc was fun

[vagrant oak]

Just got back, missed a bit.

[strange python]

I have replaced 2 spamming with jump spamming

[limber lion]

Join the gang

[hollow escarp]

boosted a lot of curves

[vagrant oak]

If they buffed trinkets how is flayedwing toxin now?

[strange python]

And wiping my raid on mythic council

[manic haven]

Any consensus on how to fit SBS in to assass rotation?

[balmy condor]

Just as buffed as all the other trinkets they didn’t actually buff

[vagrant oak]

Fair cop, I feel like that trink does less than stated

[balmy condor]

As a generator when you’re not going to overcap

[stoic needle]

All non-stat giving dps trinkets got a 10% buff

[manic haven]

Ahead of mutilate I’m assuming right? Apologies for the incredibly basic question

[balmy condor]

....it’s not by design tho

[balmy condor]

Yes

Like they didn’t sit there and go

“Wow trinkets need a buff”

They just changed math in the back end

And it happened to affect all the trinkets

[stoic needle]

Call it trinket tuning then

[vagrant oak]

Yeah definitely, just getting the extra clarification on it. Much appreciated

[balmy condor]

They didn’t even tune trinkets

This entire trinket thing

Is just a side effect

[stoic needle]

It was to make damage trinkets more competitive compared to world quest stat trinkets didn't they

[balmy condor]

I haven’t seen any official word on that

Tbh

If that’s what they said, then I’m wrong

But it just magically appeared on ptr one Fay

[stoic needle]

It was something koji mentioned

[balmy condor]

With the rounding stuff

And then just sat there

And existed

[stoic needle]

Because like a 203 frond was simming the same as 226 trinkets

[limber lion]

That was just his guess, nothing official

[storm forum]

so i know we can delay TB a bit for vendetta, should we also be delaying TB for sepsis? I have been but idk if it's right

[strange python]

What sorta dps numbers are you guys hitting on pull

[limber lion]

You want to sync them, so yes delay either as necessary

[strange python]

Feel like my initial damage is really low

[storm forum]

thx

[limber lion]

Around 11-13k

[hollow escarp]

I rarely watch meters in the beginning of the fight

[stoic needle]

Uh I don't think you're supposed to delay sepsis or shiv

[limber lion]

You delay Sepsis to sync it with Vendetta/Vanish

[stoic needle]

Well the last one

[limber lion]

And you want to have Shiv for Sepsis

[storm forum]

wait we delay sepsis for vendetta?

[strange python]

I’m deffo Fucking up then

[hollow escarp]

sometimes

[stoic needle]

Shiv and sepsis timers don't naturally line up though

[hollow escarp]

but shiv empowers sepsis

[stoic needle]

Idk I feel like we shouldn't recommend people to blindly save their cov ability for vendetta

[limber lion]

They don't, that's why you have to delay either.

[stoic needle]

99% of people asking don't know their kill timers to do it properly

[hollow escarp]

if you sepsis and then shiv, you will get the explosion during shiv window

[stoic needle]

You don't save shiv ever

[hollow escarp]

I do

[limber lion]

But you do though

[stoic needle]

You shouldn't though?

[strange python]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tmx6fTDF89pgWHvQ#fight=15&view=replay if you don’t mind having a look here and seeing where I’m fucking up on burst

[limber lion]

If Vendetta is coming up in like 5-10s, you don't use Shiv

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor thoughts?

[balmy condor]

What am I thoughting

[gray fjord]

o:

[vagrant oak]

I always thought the golden rule for delaying any ability is don't delay more than 7 seconds

For any situation of any class

[balmy condor]

That entirely depends on the ability

[hollow escarp]

sepsis without shiv is wasted

[vagrant oak]

Yeah agreed

[strange python]

Also did you see rank 1 xymox is a sin rogue

[fading mason]

does assa master assain work on necrtic wake items ?

[balmy condor]

Holding army for 7 seconds is very different than holding shiv for 7 seconds

[hollow escarp]

he is not

[balmy condor]

No and I wish jpc would stop saying it

[hollow escarp]

he is an unholy rogue

[vagrant oak]

I'm talking big cds, not the little ones

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

Is jpc not filtered anymore?

[gray fjord]

oxo

[limber lion]

Hasn't been for a while

[hollow escarp]

wait

why was he filtered?

[limber lion]

Discord was having a fucking stroke about something he said in a video

[stoic needle]

Brigading

[balmy condor]

Cause he’s a dumbass prick who says wrong things for no reason and then his people brigaded the server

[hollow escarp]

[gray fjord]

Man I'm out of touch, didn't even know this was a thing apparently. xD

[storm forum]

who is jpc?

[brittle pawn]

do you bother with CT on bosses in dungeons?

[signal gulch]

keep it that way

[balmy condor]

Btw posting porn is a very fast way to a ban, as most of them found out

[strange python]

Passassin

[stoic needle]

Anyway enough about jpc

[limber lion]

The highest rated rogue in r.io

[stoic needle]

More about shiv

[hollow escarp]

he has 12 PIs

he is not a rogue

[stoic needle]

How long are we holding shiv if at all to sync with things

[storm forum]

earlier I was told yes outside of shiv

[balmy condor]

I still don’t know what I’m supposed to be thinking about

[strange python]

Oh

Wtf nvm

[stoic needle]

This @balmy condor

[vagrant oak]

Same but I guess it depends on CttC now too

[storm forum]

should we hold TB/spesis to sync them, and also when should we sync sepsis and vendetta

[tribal marlin]

Seems like a very bad idea tbh.
Unless the fight lenght is somewhere between 4:10 and 4:30 then maybe, other wise you'd rather pop shiv and delay vendetta by 10sec

[strange python]

My RL was going to PI me tonight just to see what was going on with rogues

[balmy condor]

You hold shiv for up to 12 seconds for vend

As per sims

[limber lion]

Get rekt noobs

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

Doubters, smh

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

My main point is that fight timers aren't always concrete so recommending people to blindly hold their cov ability to sync with vendetta isn't a good idea unless you explain the context

[balmy condor]

The apl line is like shiv if sepsis ticking or vendetta cd > 12

Something like that

[fallen current]

so im necrolord... it feels clunky to play as someone who was kyrian. should i swap to vent or will i get used to it?

[balmy condor]

Correct

[fallen current]

i do also play outlaw a lot.

[strange python]

How long does shiv last

[storm forum]

9 seconds

[hollow escarp]

but people come for advice on class discord for basic info like that?

[balmy condor]

I think holding CDs to sync shouldnt be the recommendation to any normal player because if you think they understand fight times and stuff

[tribal marlin]

sound like a very bad way to deal with wierd timing. If you don't loose Vendetta uptime delaying vendetta by 10sec, I don't see how it can be worst than loosing a entier TB cast

or more

[balmy condor]

You’re out of your mind

[strange python]

It’s a 25 sec cd so if vend is 37 or more cast shiv then

[balmy condor]

Then find a gain, idc

[stoic needle]

Like, if they're asking whether they should sync sepsis and vend, you 10000000% shouldn't tell them to blindly

[balmy condor]

That’s what the sim does and koji added that shit

So idk

Clearly was a gain

[vagrant oak]

When to hold and use cds is completely contextual, and there's never going to be a correct answer.
A guideline absolutely, but you need to know the class and the environment to know what's optimal

That just comes down to playing the game really

[limber lion]

No, but you should sync Sepsis and Shiv regardless.

[stoic needle]

I think we should be very specific with these recommendations

[balmy condor]

The guildie line is and should always be smash everything on cooldown

[strange python]

You should just go venthyr

[balmy condor]

Like it’s real easy

[stoic needle]

Say, hold shiv up to 12sec for sepsis, not 'try to sync sepsis and shiv'. Because the latter will have people holding shiv for 30s to sync with sepsis

[balmy condor]

Random baboon #3852 walks into spec channel

Asks if they should sync

[limber lion]

Big disagree on this. Much rather tell everyone to press everything on cooldown rather than put up a wall of text explaining how you can min-max something

[balmy condor]

You say “if you don’t miss a cast. If you aren’t sure, cast on cooldown”

[stoic needle]

??? Why would you give people misinformation out of laziness?

[balmy condor]

And that’s that

[strange python]

I feel attacked

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

I think you guys want to hand hold people too much

[stoic needle]

Yeah I agree with this but people have been saying 'always sync cov ability and vendetta' for a few days now in here

[solar flicker]

[stoic needle]

I've been watching it and correcting them every time

[wooden gull]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

And they’re idiots for saying that

[gray fjord]

AssChannel got so much better this week xDDD

[strange python]

Looks like that rank 1 rogue on arti never cast shiv?!

[zealous marsh]

make twitlonger now

[solar flicker]

theres an ass channel?

[balmy condor]

Isn’t tracked in casts

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

Shiv is bugged, you can still see it in Damage Done

[strange python]

Right cool ty was really busting out the Chinese translator

[balmy condor]

Like if you actually recommend to people to always sync cov and vendetta

[strange python]

Gotta send him some pink

[balmy condor]

Get the fuck out of the channel

Please

[tribal marlin]

@balmy condor https://i.imgur.com/hHC5iNj.png
Maybe this condition is true if you don't have Sepsis (playing another cov)

like

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure nobody said that

[tribal marlin]

always true

[hollow escarp]

it's only for sepsis

[limber lion]

Haven't seen anyone suggest that yet.

[stoic needle]

I have

Several times

[hollow escarp]

and I never suggest, I just say what I do

[balmy condor]

Not sure tbh

I’ve feel like I’ve seen it hold on venthyr

But now you’re making me doubt

[stoic needle]

Maybe the word 'always' isn't used, but they're definitely saying "sync flag with vendetta" with absolutely zero context

[hollow escarp]

shiv for flag

[stoic needle]

And that's the problem

[tribal marlin]

would make sense to be a spesis only condition tho, deffinitely valuable since you want to trigger Niya before starting vendetta and also want to trigger Sepsis inside shiv etc... (in case you are syncing)

[vagrant oak]

I mean in my head for flag and vendetta I'd be using flag 12s before to get max haste window for vendetta cast

[balmy condor]

I agree

[vagrant oak]

Something I wanna try on a dummy later

[limber lion]

But what about the big boy Flag damage

[vagrant oak]

Exactly, need to weigh up what's more optimal

[balmy condor]

Backwards logic, if anything you cast 4 second before, so you get max haste during vendetta, but on top of that, you want the vendetta energy to get more haste, and you want the initial hit to be in vendetta as well

[vagrant oak]

Yeah that's also very true

[tribal marlin]

don't forget that Flag is increase by Vendetta

I mean the damage

tho there is a big counter part of doing this

[vagrant oak]

Wait initial damage is buffed in vendetta window?

[balmy condor]

Yeh of course

Flag is a rogue ability, vend increases rogue ability damage

[tribal marlin]

yes it's a Sepsis only condition @balmy condor

[vagrant oak]

Yeah it's specific In that

[balmy condor]

Pog

[tribal marlin]

removing the entiere line litterally not nothing to the engine

[vagrant oak]

I'm working so had to check, ain't got my rogue in front of me 😂

[tribal marlin]

produce the exact same result as venthyr

[balmy condor]

Then I’m blind

Got it

Thanks

[tribal marlin]

It's a programmer tricks to be honnest

[fleet thorn]

wait, dashing and doomblade simming good in M+?

[tribal marlin]

(!cooldown.sepsis.ready|cooldown.vendetta.remains>12)
Gotta know that the first part is always returning 1 if you don't have Sepsis (because playing another cov)

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[fleet thorn]

Has anyone here tried either of those legos in m+?

[balmy condor]

Yeah I didn’t put that part together, but it makes sense when you think about it

[balmy condor]

People have tried doomblade but I don’t think any sane person has dashing

[fleet thorn]

I want to tag at here, to get more responses, because I want to do some research tonight. But I don't want to be rude either.

[balmy condor]

I mean, go for it

It won’t work :P

That stuff is all disabled

[storm forum]

@here does this work?

[balmy condor]

Nop

[fleet thorn]

Yeah makes sense as to why

[hollow escarp]

Dei said earlier he timed a MISTS +19 with Doomblade by mistake

[balmy condor]

Yeh we mut a lot in keys tbh

So it’s all fine

But there’s not really anything that’s like meta shifting going on

It’s just fine

[fleet thorn]

I guess it makes sense to just truck something especially during vendetta windows

[balmy condor]

Dashing is fine

Zold is fine

Ma is Fine

They’re all fine

[vagrant oak]

This is good because we actually have fun viable options for how we wanna play it

[signal gulch]

tiny toxic blade

[balmy condor]

Actually also kinda fine

[vagrant oak]

Bruh I wanna use TTB in PvP

[hollow escarp]

deathly shadow

[vagrant oak]

Shiv doing 3 Muts in damage

[balmy condor]

Less fine, but fine

[storm forum]

duskwalker's patch?

[balmy condor]

Not fine at all

Cursed lego

[storm forum]

😢

[fleet thorn]

but is it fineeee or say that its fine, but its not really fine, but you just cant get into it because they dont understand kind of fine?

[vagrant oak]

How much refund all up does duskwalkers give on average?

[hollow escarp]

time for Sire LFR

[storm forum]

less than 60 seconds, so not enough

[balmy condor]

We don’t really know what’s better or worse specifically, due to it being early, and there’s too many variables in m+, like ToP, doomblade is a little more attractive than a halls, tyrannical over a fort week

[vagrant oak]

Yeah not worth at all

[balmy condor]

But from what it seems like right now

Is that they’re all pretty similar

[tribal marlin]

actually I think no I'm wrong

it's for all cov

[fleet thorn]

Thank you for responses! Appreciate it :D

[balmy condor]

Don’t play with my heart like that man :(

[marsh yew]

what does dungeonslice mean in the pictures of sims in the pin?

[tribal marlin]

sorry :/

[balmy condor]

Pleasure, it’s what I don’t sleep do best

[tribal marlin]

but yeah looks like it the play, but definitely feels wierd

[balmy condor]

It’s the fight type in sims

[storm forum]

like 50/50 AoE and ST, trying to simulate both bosses and trash in dungeons

[balmy condor]

Boss followed by alternating small and large packs

With restealths and stuff

[tribal marlin]

I believe this condition is fixing wierd timing without really reducing Shiv uptime overall

[marsh yew]

ok ty

[balmy condor]

That’s what I thought too

[limber lion]

Is Dungeon Slice actually good nowadays?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[limber lion]

I remember everyone bashing it to the pits of hell in BFA.

[balmy condor]

It was questionable in bfa with EB and stuff tbh, was also very single target heavy when most dungeons were giga pull meta

But I think it fits shadowlands dungeons a lot more

[tribal marlin]

OK man i'm sorry I'm stupid xD

[balmy condor]

And there’s no weird azerite that’s throwing everything for a loop

[limber lion]

Yeah makes sense.

[brittle pawn]

dont say that word

[balmy condor]

Dude I’m stupid too!

[tribal marlin]

So basically, the condition actually have an impact on other covenant

[brittle pawn]

[tribal marlin]

but a negative one xD

[balmy condor]

Might have to limit it to fae only

[reef axle]

anyone else spamming pf keys and kinda over it now?

[balmy condor]

I’ll look into it some more

[limber lion]

Whatchu mean? I only did 2 today and got Phial from the second one

[stoic needle]

I think people would benefit from an explanation of the breakdown of a dungeon slice sim

[zealous marsh]

Don’t say it

[stoic needle]

Because people see the pins and think that doomblade and dashing are good in aoe situations and they are certainly not

[balmy condor]

The github page has a full explanation

[stoic needle]

You think these random baboons read github?

[limber lion]

Woah there

[balmy condor]

No but how many more sims should I put in the pins

[zealous marsh]

Hey don’t say such things about random baboon

[stoic needle]

Honestly just adding a 5 target sustained would be enough

[storm forum]

10 pages of sims

[stoic needle]

To the st/dslice comparison

[storm forum]

10 more*

[tribal marlin]

Well anyway if delaying Shiv for Vendetta is 10dps loss over long fight and litterally neutral for shorter fight. I believe we can safely do it or no

[zealous marsh]

He is good fella

[marsh yew]

what github page should I look at for the full explanation?

[balmy condor]

I would probably delay for vend just to make sure I get it in

[stoic needle]

People think dslice = aoe when it's not quite that

But if they saw single target, dslice, and 5t patchwerk side by side they might think differently

[balmy condor]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/RaidEvents

[tribal marlin]

well as I said the natural play would be to actually hold on Vendetta for a few second, assuming it doesn't reduce the uptime of it

But this will probably end up doing wierd stuff in sims so I won't even try

[balmy condor]

Cooldown syncing always has weird shit

And timing nonsense

[stoic needle]

Also I'm a little late but flag initial hit after vendetta is big dam

[balmy condor]

I personally advocate against putting overly complicated sync logic into the sim

[gusty mirage]

top boss dam on sun king boys (:

beat the filthy unholy dk

[balmy condor]

:)

[gusty mirage]

top 5 overall, padding be damned

[stoic needle]

Sin funnel new niche?!?

[fathom swift]

gotta do the dance between optimizing for every last point of sim dps and having the apl be a good approximation of how somebody would actually play

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

dude, this priest gave me PI on cd on Sire LFR

[balmy condor]

Yep

[gusty mirage]

I'm 5/10 mythic now, can I be a cool kid now? Or is that after arti?

[teal bloom]

I've found that sepsis is really hard to even try to use optimally because there is both shiv and vendetta :(

[rotund oar]

If I am running venthyr, should I be running lashing scars, or well plated steel conduit, lashing is at 184 while well plated is 200

[balmy condor]

I think syncs toe the line on it pretty hard personally

[balmy condor]

Sim it

I would assume the lashing

[gusty mirage]

fun fact when I bonus rolled my first ever conduit from venari

she gave me a 213 wps (:

SHE KNEW

[rotund oar]

do I need to use simc for conduit sims?

[balmy condor]

Not enough to give you lashing

[gusty mirage]

@rotund oar you can do it on raidbots w/ top gear

[balmy condor]

^

[gusty mirage]

I'll just kill sire on mythic

I only get conduits in raid anyway

[balmy condor]

Should always be using /simc from game to import though

[stoic needle]

Yeah just

[balmy condor]

Not sure which the question is referring to

[stoic needle]

Kill sire mythic

[balmy condor]

But raidbots is life

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

Just do it

[balmy condor]

99.99% of people don’t need a local version of simulationcraft

[cosmic prism]

what even is the purpose of a local version?

[balmy condor]

The main purpose is being able to pull updates before raidbots rebuilds their nightly

[fathom swift]

i was so excited to play sin, get some mythic denath daggers, then i got told i need to tank for a couple months

[balmy condor]

So like simming ptr/beta versions

All of the beta sims needed to be done locally

[limber lion]

Eww tanking

[cosmic prism]

just say no 🙂

[rotund oar]

Thank you

[stoic needle]

That's just cruel and unusual

[fathom swift]

i cant say no we dont have another monk debuff

[grand echo]

got inspired from venari conduit talk, went to get one, hs, open and it was lashing scars 213

gg ty guys

[limber lion]

Ez

[balmy condor]

Fuck you

[ebon hull]

I was watching videos and really if you learn how to use rogue assassination well you can have a good performance in m+, which I'm glad because I don't like the RNG and overly frenetic that is the Outlaw.

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

Just get it from h sire

Ez

Clapperino

[hollow escarp]

already killed him this week

gonna do a normal pug tomorrow

[balmy condor]

I didn’t get conduit either from sire

[limber lion]

Hc sire does't drop jack shit

[balmy condor]

6 kills in, still waiting for a replacement to my 207 helm

[hollow escarp]

should get from world quests

[limber lion]

I've never gotten an item from him. Only got Dreadfire traded to me

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

from HC I've gotten everything except weapon and ring

[ebon hull]

There is a world mission that gives you the conduit ilvl 184, and this week's world boss also droops it.

[hollow escarp]

wb didn't drop

[cosmic prism]

i got dread fire and like 4 helms from him, 0 weaps and 0 weaps from vault 🙂

[limber lion]

Actually no, I did get the pet.

[balmy condor]

Callings drop 200

[hollow escarp]

I just swapped 1 hour ago

[limber lion]

I know. Fucking huge

[ebon hull]

sad

[balmy condor]

The guaranteed drop?

[charred mango]

ive still not seen a weapon token thats usable by rogues since launch

[balmy condor]

[charred mango]

from council or sire

[limber lion]

Wait wtf is it quaranteed???

[hollow escarp]

[grand echo]

yeah we are progressing on SLG and all my weapons are still 220

[limber lion]

[grand echo]

:(

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s 100% from your first kill

Lmao

[limber lion]

I'm so sad

[fathom swift]

the problem is council has so many pieces it can drop and you almost always only have 1 warrior and 1 monk in ur raid and 0 other rogues

[gusty mirage]

THE FIX IS IN BOYS

I'm getting PI on pull for arti

backdoor dealings

[limber lion]

Just remember that Passassasin got 8

So gotta match that

[gusty mirage]

an 8 parse? EZ

[stoic needle]

has anyone ever tried smothered shank in m+

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

it'll be on par with my dying on inerva parse (:

[balmy condor]

It’s awful

[stoic needle]

sadge

[limber lion]

Rip bear tartare

[hollow escarp]

there is a new food

bonefish something

[balmy condor]

I don’t think fish bone

They lay eggs

[limber lion]

Good one

[balmy condor]

Thanks

[thorn kindle]

A google image search will clear this up

[limber lion]

You're welcome

[gusty mirage]

I died

[worn path]

got the weapon drop from council. time to play SIN BABY

[hollow escarp]

damn, I actually have loot to take on next boss

council has like 3 nice items

[limber lion]

Lucky you. I haven't even killed the stupid boss and we've been extending for like 4 weeks now

[worn path]

haste verse gloves right?

[limber lion]

Should have just played when I had a migraine and not bench myself

[dense hamlet]

if u pvp yes

[limber lion]

Haste vers/crir

[hollow escarp]

we are gonna progress monday

hopefully we are gonna do another reclear

[worn path]

cant decide between crit or verse

[hollow escarp]

I want more chances on Inerva ring

[limber lion]

I haven't seen m Shriek in a month. I'm sad

[dense hamlet]

sim the stats probably haste crit should be better for pve

[limber lion]

I wanna reclear :'(

[charred mango]

IMO crit cause it will make the gameplay feel a tiny bit better

with more crit combo points overall

[dense hamlet]

thats why it should sim higher

and if u dont have like 40% crit

[limber lion]

In fact, we've only killed one boss since they buffed the drop rates

[worn path]

hard to say what will be better, id have to sim it with the rest of the upgrades i dont have yet

[lament mica]

thats not a fun fact at all

[dense hamlet]

well u can sim them but it might take a while to get them

[worn path]

could take a while but i still have another 12 lockouts at least lol

[hollow escarp]

gonna miss her soon if we start extending

[charred mango]

next week is the first week my guild is extending, reclears are fun ill miss them

[reef axle]

Haste vers can be for pve too, depending on characters overall stats

[dense hamlet]

yes but u need alot of haste from pvp to do that

i mean vers

its like

i meant maybe he pvps and has vers

so no need

but still told him to sim the stats

idk what stats he has

[trim basin]

Hey guys, is there something different between assassination and outlaw toughness wise ? Because since I switched spec, i'm so squishy.... in the maw, for example, a regular mob almost 3 shotted me... and it's the same thing since tuesday... i'm 213 ilvl, not supposed to be that squishy

[balmy condor]

not inherently, no

[dense hamlet]

maybe u didnt equip ur gear?

[trim basin]

Not sure if you're trolling or something , but I have all my gear lol

[dense hamlet]

yeah i was joking

[trim basin]

haha ok

[solar bramble]

I find outlaw squishier . . No leeching poison in open world. . And with master assassin few mobs live past 4-6 seconds unless elite . I'm only 201.

Most die in 3 globals if I have mfd and double envenom

[trim basin]

Weird... well, maybe it's just me then lol

[polar apex]

it would probs be the leech from rolls right?

[trim basin]

yeah maybe

[solar bramble]

Stop opening woth garrote and use master assassin in open world. . Those 4 seconds also make mutilate 4cp automatically

[celest rover]

😏

[solar bramble]

Unless its multiple targets ofc lol

[marsh yew]

are those 100 il parses?

[trim basin]

Yeah, I always start with garrote indeed lol, he's at the same place on my bar than ambush in outlaw lol

[solar bramble]

No shrouded suffocation op nest in qshadowlands

[celest rover]

Yeah ilvl lmao my rogues only 194

[proper halo]

i went haste vers for legendary would haste crit better ?

[marsh yew]

it depends on your character so you need to sim to find out

[celest rover]

You might be 1 dps short omg

...

[exotic pulsar]

So we aren't supposed to ambush from stealth. Does this mean we also do not use the ambush proc from Sepsis?

[marsh yew]

we do use the ambush proc because it doesn't take energy

[solar bramble]

Try either mfd envenom mutilate envenom . . Or mut envenom mfd envenom. . . Can also sub rogue shadowstrike (w/ premed) evis mfd evis . . And sub is quite tanky in open world

[exotic pulsar]

Ambush with sepsis proc certainly does take energy.

[marsh yew]

ooo

sepsis proc

mb

[lilac sparrow]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[marsh yew]

I was thinking about blindside proc

XD

[exotic pulsar]

I do use blindside procs but since sepsis proc is just a normal ambush we ignore the proc correct?

[marsh yew]

yes

you are correct

[exotic pulsar]

I see. Kind of a waste 😦

[lilac sparrow]

When is flag timing for vendett cycle?

[balmy condor]

flag is a 1:30 cd

[fallow otter]

Wcl shiv hunting is over @balmy condor

How does you feel

[balmy condor]

imma be honest, I don't know what you're talking about

[lilac sparrow]

No shiv on WCL yesterday

In casting log

[balmy condor]

that's been a thing all expansion

is that fixed?

[ruby oyster]

Rogue
Shiv is now displayed correctly in the combat log.

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/734092-hotfixes-updated-march-11/

[balmy condor]

nice

[ebon bramble]

sorry for my ignorance, what was going on with shiv?

[balmy condor]

it wasn't displaying correctly in logs

because it was scuffed in combat log

[void pecan]

and people would ask

wHy No ShIv iN mY lOg

no longer.

[hollow escarp]

I'm so dumb I didn't even noticed it was missing

[dawn ivy]

wasnt affecting actual numbers though right? just analyzing was a bit harder

[balmy condor]

correct

[void pecan]

Yeh exactly

[balmy condor]

purely a log fix

[dawn ivy]

yeah thought so

[balmy condor]

if you don't look at logs, you won't even notice the difference

[fallow otter]

Yeh small but good

I noticed it because it's right under the monk fixes lol

So... Bro

I setup sin and binds lastnight

And made db

Tb to shiv obv

Bote to sepsis

[thin gate]

guys does some1 know how to get those "overheads" on plater?

[fallow otter]

CT to snd (not stuck on this because you barely press it and I'm screwed if I talent it obv)

[thin gate]

like showing bop comboost ect in pvp

above enemy name plates

[fallow otter]

Nameplate cooldowns

It's an addon

But you can manually do it in plater, but it's alot of screwing around

[thin gate]

can i disable it in pve?

[fallow otter]

And finally @balmy condor ambush went to kidney coz i use the sap kidney macro these days

[hybrid sluice]

on sire if you're taking zoldyck do you take crimson tempest?

[balmy condor]

no

[hybrid sluice]

ty

what if i have like 900 haste lmao

[dense hamlet]

arent u overcapping on haste at that point cuz of venthyr

[balmy condor]

there is no breakpoint

and no overcap

[dense hamlet]

yeah there is non

[balmy condor]

so I ask the question

[balmy condor]

what if you have like 900 haste

[celest rover]

But does my opener change with that much haste is the real question

[balmy condor]

no

[hybrid sluice]

i have 900 haste 🙂

[celest rover]

Cause openers are the most important thing period

[balmy condor]

literally nothing changes

at all

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

if you play venthyr you go deeper anyway

so there's like nothing to be done there

EP would eventually be the play

[hollow escarp]

I also simmed DS better as NF

[balmy condor]

but you'd need more than is possible atm

[teal bloom]

A question about sepsis and shiv. I know that I should generally line up 1,5min ability with vendetta only if I don't lose a cast. But if I don't know the exact fight time, should I use Sepsis with Shiv? Shiv increases the Sepsis damage pretty significantly especially with WPS so sometimes having to delay it a bit should still be worth, right?

[empty vault]

so i have a question guys, so if u go Venthyr u lose ur well placed Steel an ur cov ablility is everything. an NF is good with Shiv w/ Well Placed Steel. but what about Nerco With Doomblade lego

[dense hamlet]

i think necro goes wps aswell

[ruby oyster]

what would be expected gain from DS? as venthyr its just a 32dps over vigor + EP

[gusty mirage]

Arti dead baby 🙂

[hollow escarp]

grats

[gusty mirage]

I cheated though, my priest friend gave me PI lmao

[hollow escarp]

me and the outlaw rogue in my raid both had crazy good pulls

5.5k in last phase

but then

love that fight though

[balmy condor]

then it's 32dps

[ruby oyster]

yeah but does it get better with x more haste or whatever or in general DS gain is that small ?

[ebon bramble]

sim it again once you get more haste

[icy crater]

I had 1 pull doing 6k as outlaw before going into lust and had all my cds up

had 50% uptime on TB and BS for that pull, just insane rng

and 0 mechanics on me

killed it as assa this week tho 🙂

[hollow escarp]

ohh, the pulls where I get portal with vendetta up

[compact pumice]

Logic dictates that if there is a cutoff point of haste where DS is better then it will scale better than not having DS with even more haste

[ruby oyster]

obviously im gonna do that once i get gear upgrades but im just curious if other people are getting a noticeably bigger difference and if so, why

[balmy condor]

it gets better with more haste and more crit

but its never gonna be more than like 100 dps

[ruby oyster]

cool got it

[hollow escarp]

I always liked DS > Vigor

glad it's better again

[ebon bramble]

all really up to you and your playstyle XD

[hollow escarp]

yeah

I like big envenoms

[ruby oyster]

i prefer vigor and less procs lol

[fallow otter]

Ww gets super punished on that fight, on opener. It's he no good or did he get a mech

[hollow escarp]

I know

but we are memeing on our monk now after the "bug fixes"

[fallow otter]

They are aoe only

Sadly

[hollow escarp]

some burst too

[ebon bramble]

i wonder how far ahead blindside is compared to elaborate planning 🤔

[fallow otter]

Where is this

[compact pumice]

We had one monk who rerolled to rogue as soon as he read the patchnotes

[hollow escarp]

I think Cev said earlier something about short fights where EP is better

should sim though

[ebon bramble]

ya sims show < 1%

still...thats still dps...i assume it'll likely cancel out if there were more than 1 target

[hollow escarp]

getting a bs proc in a shiv window feels good

[sharp pawn]

i like playin with vigor, playin with DS is so energi starved its boring af

[ebon bramble]

i want less APM.

[hollow escarp]

it's only like that in the opener

[ebon bramble]

can watch netflix

while playing