assassination

[balmy condor]

and then leave

[cunning surge]

[spice shore]

hey guys im torn between zold and doomblade for m+, it's my alt did anyone test which one is better for overall?

[balmy condor]

zold usually

[wise gull]

got a single renown

[umbral rapids]

i don't get this

does it just plainly sim better or is there a reasoning behind this ?

[thorn turtle]

Aoe execute is good

And simple execute also g

[burnt tartan]

isn't it that zold boosts your dot damage on every target in aoe, while doomblade only pretty much helps with ST?

[fallow otter]

What exactly screams aoe to you in terms of doomblade

[balmy condor]

aoe is good, execute is good, passive is good

[thorn turtle]

Doomblade is good if your tank pulls only 2 mobs at once

[umbral rapids]

do you have to reapply bleeds at 30%?

[thorn turtle]

Nop

[umbral rapids]

or does it just proc whenever they go under 30 ?

[fallow otter]

Dynamic

[viral aurora]

Yes

[balmy condor]

snapshotting don't exist homie

[umbral rapids]

i see

[thorn turtle]

Yeah, it just accelerates

[umbral rapids]

that makes more sense

[balmy condor]

snapshotting is some cringe ass feral shit

[umbral rapids]

i'm not your homie love

[cunning surge]

Yeah Doomblade bleeds don't have Pandemic

If that was part of the question

[balmy condor]

damn sad after all we've been thru

[umbral rapids]

haha

sin stonks going up so i hang out here now 👀

[viral aurora]

Nobody played with it in legion? It was very clearly noticeable as soon mobs/Bosses went below zoldyck threshold

[balmy condor]

doomblade bleed works like ignite

[thorn turtle]

It’s noticeable now also

[fallow otter]

Only coz you bound it wrong

[balmy condor]

so it's actually better than pandemic

[thorn turtle]

U just skyrocket in deeps

[umbral rapids]

Whisp imma annoy you like in bfa you're not ready

[balmy condor]

if you annoy me more than some uh... select people in here

I'll give you a cookie

[umbral rapids]

what if i don't ?

[balmy condor]

you get no cookie

[umbral rapids]

do you take me out for dinner ?

[balmy condor]

the only thing here is cookie

[umbral rapids]

sadge

[balmy condor]

I have nothing to offer aside from a measly coherent mass of crumbs

[umbral rapids]

wowhead vs icy veins guide ? or same ?

[fallow otter]

Your cuteness is infectious @balmy condor

[umbral rapids]

i assume rotation changed since 8.3

[viral aurora]

Envenom isnt part of the dmg increase with Zoldyck right?

[cunning surge]

I'd say either or, but with caution cause some stuff in the guides are "???"

[balmy condor]

I help seli with the errors in icyveins, so I'm gonna say I trust it more, but ravenholdt, icyveins, and wowhead are all fine

[umbral rapids]

ye i just want to find a rotation so i can slam some dummies while i farm for doomblade

[balmy condor]

I just haven't looked at wowhead in forever

[cunning surge]

Yeah I'd use IV

[umbral rapids]

if you and seli make icyveins then icy veins it is :)

[unkempt belfry]

do we not use shiv in rotation for assassination? I'm looking at a few logs from Shriekwing (m), and I'm not seeing shiv usage on casts for them.

[umbral rapids]

thanks whisp you're the bestest

[cunning surge]

That's just WCL being dumb

You cast Shiv on CD

For some reason it doesn't show in the Casts

[umbral rapids]

oh that's right, shiv is a thing

[unkempt belfry]

That's wild

[umbral rapids]

it replaced toxic blade right ?

[unkempt belfry]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

I don't really "make it", I just get credit in the margins if you go to simulations and scroll all the way down

[umbral rapids]

you help with it

enough to make it perfect

[balmy condor]

[dim shoal]

Question for sunking before everyone starts simping for whisypr

[umbral rapids]

wait so you don't need to press snd anymore ?

with the change this patch

[balmy condor]

yeh just to start

[dim shoal]

Doing most deeps on shields

[arctic walrus]

Nice website role whispyr

[dim shoal]

Vendetta flag shiv vanish mut env

?

[balmy condor]

thanks

[umbral rapids]

coolcool

[balmy condor]

sounds good

[arctic walrus]

It’s okay you’re cool I think you’re on the rh website with all of us

[dim shoal]

Ah wait one mut too much

[balmy condor]

still no fucking clue who that shiennar lad is

[arctic walrus]

Who?

[balmy condor]

who?

who's this scathic dude

[gray fjord]

[arctic walrus]

Oh you’re actually not on it

No comment

[balmy condor]

wait

you didn't know?

[arctic walrus]

No comment to your comment

[balmy condor]

fair comment

but still

all women do is eat hot chip and lie

[arctic walrus]

What about cats

[dim shoal]

I wanted to try assa in m+, I have MA and Doomblade legendaries.

Go subterfuge and doomblade, or nightstalker and ma? I mean both suck, but which sucks less

[crimson palm]

have u tried tagging him

[balmy condor]

who?

[crimson palm]

that shiennar lad

[balmy condor]

nah who asked?

[crimson palm]

u

[balmy condor]

o tru

[balmy condor]

subterfuge and doom prolly

[velvet nacelle]

assassination isn't bad in M+, it's just not outlaw

[balmy condor]

cat's don't eat hot chip

[faint harness]

when was the last time ole plode said something in any channel

[crimson palm]

who

[faint harness]

nameless

[velvet nacelle]

man i've been stalled at 27 renown for like hours now

0 for 7 on normal raid bosses and 0 for 3 on random heroics

[thorn turtle]

m0’s?

World boss

[fallow otter]

Rename to his name then the website is fixed, problem solved

[velvet nacelle]

world boss already done

i guess i could look for an m0 group

[balmy condor]

looks like 2 days ago to ask "stinky americans" how much valor per key, while the servers were down, and then the said we're useless and left

[velvet nacelle]

done a few already this week though

[faint harness]

[thorn turtle]

Did u give in weekly quests?

[velvet nacelle]

holding weekly quests for now

[thorn turtle]

Interesting

Mythic zeros should help

[velvet nacelle]

if i can hit 40 this week i'd like to, but if i need to i'll use em to boost to 30 for raid

[thorn turtle]

Also ofc m+

Just apply for low ones ezpz

That’s what I did at least, helps like a charm, cuz I have 3 covenants at 30+

[velvet nacelle]

i got rejected for a 5 earlier today

1k io and 219 equipped

[thorn turtle]

Wut

[velvet nacelle]

i've been trying, my friend!

[balmy condor]

play a better class dummo

[thorn turtle]

True

[velvet nacelle]

i quit my dk because they were fotm

[thorn turtle]

Bet 200 ilvl bookie outdamages is ezpz

Boomie *

Us*

[velvet nacelle]

i imagined a loan shark

[thorn turtle]

I need 3rd coffee I guess

[velvet nacelle]

i dunno, as outlaw i beat boomies in keys all the time

fire mages usually beat me

[crimson palm]

@balmy condor is there an up to date navi opener

cant find it in the pins

for some reason

[thorn turtle]

I wanna try outlaw a bit more, but my hands scream in carpal

[crimson palm]

[umbral rapids]

rip my wrist

[velvet nacelle]

@thorn turtle yeah haha, it's a struggle but kind of a nice change of pace now and then

[strange python]

whats better for pugs assa or resto/ele sham? idk what to play 😦

[balmy condor]

haven't heard that name in years

[cunning surge]

Resto Shaman's kinda pulping the healing meters tbh

[crimson palm]

fuck u im not that old

:

[umbral rapids]

waaaaaaah

man that was good content

[hardy berry]

For M+ Resto Sham if you don’t want to wait 30 minutes to get accepted

[balmy condor]

best I can do for you is oshosi having a hard on for mastery

[verbal knot]

how do you guys open with venthyr sin?

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut gar vend flag rup shiv

[umbral rapids]

i'm screenshotting this

[scenic kelp]

You Go vanish After and then ambush evenom?

[viral meadow]

mut envenom

[lament mica]

no ambush

[cunning surge]

Ambush only with BS Proc

[balmy condor]

vanish mut env mut

[cloud reef]

why dont you open with garrotte from stealth?

[tender fjord]

I’ve played with a ele shaman yesterday, those buffs were huge

[sand dirge]

why not mut vanish env mut env?

[balmy condor]

cause we don't play subterfuge

[balmy condor]

because you won't have the cp for that probably and also it doesn't matter

but if you want to do that, go for it

[cunning surge]

I do

[regal crag]

At what haste do you take deeper stratagem

[frank sail]

@balmy condor Why do you open with Mut instead of Ambush as venth? is it specific for Doom lego?

[balmy condor]

you never open with ambush on any covenant, mostly because of CP things

[lament mica]

[cunning surge]

We probably need a !ambush command tbh, this is a very common question

[thorn turtle]

@balmy condor does this apply to m+ also?

[balmy condor]

I don't like giving out hard numbers, but usually like 15% is fine for venth, and 20-25% for other covs, sim yourself

[balmy condor]

it wasn't common before, but I might consider it

[balmy condor]

the mut/ambush thing?

[cunning surge]

Ye I figured as much

[dim shoal]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[cunning surge]

I just mean now that's being asked a lot

[dawn belfry]

i casually look at this discord probably 4 times a day. Not shitting you when is say EVERY.SINGLE.TIME someone is asking why they don't open with ambush LOl shits wild

[thorn turtle]

Yeah, the no subterfuge thing @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

yes, you never open with ambush

[lament mica]

its weird ppl would be asking more now since its worse than ever

[frank sail]

So i currently am 20% crit 28% haste 26% mast.. i should be taking deeper strat over vigor?

[grim hornet]

sim

[thorn turtle]

Do you use ma talent for m+ also? @balmy condor

[velvet nacelle]

probably, but sim it

[frank sail]

TOO RAIDBOTS!

[balmy condor]

of course

[velvet nacelle]

it wasn't really worth it for me to swap over til closer to 18-20% personally

[thorn turtle]

:I

[velvet nacelle]

deeper was better, but only like 0.5% better and vigor "felt better"

[torpid spoke]

@balmy condor did I make you proud dad https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/71zam2R9JTLY4gX3/#fight=23

[viral meadow]

wait what. subt is no more?

[thorn turtle]

Guess I need to check the pins somewhere soon

[balmy condor]

nah not in raids

[cunning surge]

Hm, I assumed that Subt would be the goto for AoE/Add situations

[balmy condor]

well yeh in aoe obviously

[viral meadow]

not in raids no. but in m+?

[balmy condor]

you would play subt

that's a no brainer

[velvet nacelle]

@torpid spoke 3:51 kill, dude i'm jealous

[viral meadow]

that's what he asked and you said of course

[balmy condor]

oh was it m+

mb then

[viral meadow]

yea

[velvet nacelle]

er 3:49

[balmy condor]

I can't keep up sometimes

[velvet nacelle]

and 7.3k is like... what i hit in my opener

[cunning surge]

Yeah that's why I was "???"
All good though

[balmy condor]

big

[viral meadow]

whispyr had a stroke. it's subt in M+

[velvet nacelle]

how do i steal your powers @torpid spoke

[thorn turtle]

Phew, I had white noise in my head for a solid minute @viral meadow

[balmy condor]

that being said though

[torpid spoke]

You listen to @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

m+ talents

are a fucking mess

[umbral rapids]

whips do you ever press ambush?

[thorn turtle]

Looks like it

[velvet nacelle]

when you get blindside procs, yes

[umbral rapids]

ok ty

[balmy condor]

like you can play nighstalker deeper and MA vigor and all sorts of wild shit

and it's just fine

even hidden blades is honestly not bad

[umbral rapids]

ur not bad

[balmy condor]

as long as you play the combination properly

[velvet nacelle]

i still need to make my doomblade

[umbral rapids]

[balmy condor]

then it's chillin

[cunning surge]

M+: "Just go apeshit"

[balmy condor]

and for legendaries you got like doomblade and MA and zold, all decent choices

dashing isn't that bad either

[viral meadow]

i mean there's so much variation in m+ it's hard to have a 'obviously these talents' choice

[balmy condor]

and for conduits you can go lp or wps or lashing or katar

like

its bad bad

[vast hound]

@balmy condor what talents would u use for raiding and m+?

[balmy condor]

there's probably like 40+ combinations

that are all fine

[balmy condor]

pins

[thorn turtle]

Is 2x potency better or LS and duelist for nadjia?

[balmy condor]

duelist

[thorn turtle]

I’m indecisive

[lament mica]

duelist is insane

for ST

[viral meadow]

3% dmg baby

[velvet nacelle]

@torpid spoke out of curiosity, what's your sim dps?

[torpid spoke]

6580ish without wind fury

I still have a 190 leggendary on hands

[thorn turtle]

But is duelist worth for m+?

[torpid spoke]

_>

[balmy condor]

yeh, I'd say so

[velvet nacelle]

you're only like 400 ahead of me on simdps but you're about 50% higher than me on sludge 😛

[balmy condor]

theotar is good too

[thorn turtle]

Is theotar mastery thing easy to catch?

[viral meadow]

i find sludge an optimization nightmare

[balmy condor]

it's not hard, nah

[thorn turtle]

Or do I need to stay in the zone to keep the buff?

[torpid spoke]

When do u use cd and how many pillars does your raid do

[balmy condor]

need to stay in the zone

but it's not that small tbh

[thorn turtle]

Fck

[balmy condor]

if you don't like it, just play nadjia

[thorn turtle]

I’m that dude that contanstly runs around and jumps

So I’m sticking with my slav mhm Nadjia

Mum*

[velvet nacelle]

@torpid spoke previously we killed right on or after the 4th pillar, i've been playing around with cds though bu ti think i'm settling on opening big, then 2nd and 4th for cds

delaying til 1st for the pillars means i only get 2 cds

[viral meadow]

i think vendetta real early is the way to go IIRC

[ionic kelp]

tbh theotar in m+ this week sucks ass

[lament mica]

2 min cds pull, 2, and 4 is best ya

[ionic kelp]

for heroic?

[torpid spoke]

For mythic too

[lament mica]

if ur doing 4 pillars yes

[ionic kelp]

For mythic ya

[velvet nacelle]

unless you're killing on the third pillar then i'd probably delay til 1st pillar

[ionic kelp]

For heroic 1/3

[lament mica]

if ur 3 pillaring in heroic then obv no

[ionic kelp]

don’t think anyone is doing 3 pillar on mythic lol

[velvet nacelle]

@ionic kelp not with that attitude!

[thorn turtle]

Are u docketing everything haste btw?

[ionic kelp]

truuuu

[torpid spoke]

Did u see that arcane mage

[velvet nacelle]

believe to achieve!

[torpid spoke]

10k dps

He’s top on mythic sludge

[ionic kelp]

how many PIs did he get

or is arcane just that broke now

[torpid spoke]

Or innervatess

[velvet nacelle]

@torpid spoke dude your worst dps would probably be top in my raids haha

[balmy condor]

11

[cunning surge]

That's a lot

[ionic kelp]

can’t tell if trolling cause I can’t look

[balmy condor]

no

he actually got 11

[ionic kelp]

lmfao

[frank sail]

Is it worth 🤨 if so which bosses should i be using it on?

[ionic kelp]

that sounds so fun to play

[torpid spoke]

Just practice rotation and I can help go over ur logs if u want

[velvet nacelle]

@torpid spoke we haven't raided officially yet this week, i'm just farming catch up renown but i will probably hit you up for that this weekend

[balmy condor]

all of them

[frank sail]

@balmy condor how should i utilise Deeper? ive not really played wiht it.. im guessing 5 cp for rup/SnD is fine, but try to utilise 6CP for Envenoms

[balmy condor]

you just finish on 5 instead of 4

[kindred imp]

Hey guys, for heroic sire, is doom or zold recommended leggo? That execute phase is pretty longish...

[ionic kelp]

deffo zold

if it’s prog

[balmy condor]

yeah

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/boIFQjcOAMRABDOJHuzmtQfS7YlKnzJSNevMj-LZoys/https/i.imgur.com/67cB8HS.png?width=810&height=93

[ionic kelp]

if you just tryna parse maybe just doomblade

[balmy condor]

that screenshot got floated earlier

[ionic kelp]

LOL

I love Chinese guilds cause they do wild shit like that

[balmy condor]

that's a denathrius log

btw

[torpid spoke]

I was talking about this one

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jHvwGKLqR3A1aXpb#fight=10&type=summary

He got 2 which is nutty

[balmy condor]

oh

I haven't even seen that one

[thorn turtle]

Jesus anything in sockets but haste is a dps loss for me, but I have 23% baseline haste with that

[balmy condor]

that sounds lit

[vestal wren]

23 buffs holy

he didn't get banner, so all fine

[balmy condor]

yet

[velvet nacelle]

just to confirm, flag on cd, don't delay it for vendetta right?

i tried both tonight and i did not like sitting on it for 30s

[low girder]

only delay if you won't lose a cast

otherwise on cd

[thorn turtle]

Am I fine statwise?

[velvet nacelle]

yeah, that's what i meant

[thorn turtle]

Or too much mast?

[vast hound]

@balmy condor does the Screenshot in pins still accurate about the soulbinds path?

[vestal wren]

i think it should

[velvet nacelle]

heh, it's kinda funny when people are like "should i go for more <x> stat" because my luck has been pretty awful so i'm pretty much in a "take what i can get" mentality

[balmy condor]

just the conduits for venthyr are wrong I guess

but everything else is fine

[ionic kelp]

you can probably preplan flag/vendetta just by looking at prev kill time. and if it’s prog just do it on cd

[velvet nacelle]

"oh let me go through all 1 of my bracers and see which one to use..."

[vestal wren]

oh right

[arctic walrus]

Stats don’t matter run with what you have and top gear will do the work for you

[vestal wren]

venthyr goes scars

[balmy condor]

would stop worrying about secondary stats tbh, if that sims highest, that sims highest

[velvet nacelle]

@ionic kelp i really only delay the "last" one if i know there's no chance there's 90s left in the fight

[thorn turtle]

Ah oke, ty

[vast hound]

so we dont go duelist we go the left tree to use another dmg conduit?

[balmy condor]

and kleia is > pelagos from what I've seen

[torpid spoke]

Honestly with sockets and enchants, you can have a subpar item but sims can help balance the stats with gems / ring enchants

[balmy condor]

but they're close

so I'll chalk that one up to profiles

[arctic walrus]

[torpid spoke]

I always sim with gems / ring enchants

[balmy condor]

huh? the pins say duelist

[velvet nacelle]

honestly haste is probably my favorite stat in general in wow since it makes things feel smoother

[vast hound]

theres a screenshot under the pins that has all covenant options

[velvet nacelle]

and usually playing to your preference in secondary stats isn't a MAJOR hit to your dps

[vast hound]

thats why i asked if its still viable

[velvet nacelle]

some classes have breakpoints, sure, but we don't that i know of

[balmy condor]

yeh, it is

[ionic kelp]

ya but you could just get 11 PIs and forget about the haste

[balmy condor]

you just go lashing scars on venthyr

instead of wps

[velvet nacelle]

@ionic kelp our priests don't like me enough to do that haha

[vast hound]

what opener do u guys use for raid bosses?

[torpid spoke]

Which boss

[viral meadow]

all together now

[ionic kelp]

same I’ve only gotten pi’d during sales and killed myself cause I wasn’t looking cause I was more surprised I got it

[vast hound]

most of the bosses should have the same opener? @torpid spoke

[thorn turtle]

U know what makes LS also better conduit, u can freely swap between assa and outlaw @balmy condor

[frank sail]

Just run 2x 5 mins on dummys with Deeper vs Vigor, It felt the same smoothness.. and Deeper was ahead by 0.3k dps and roughly 80k damage done

[ionic kelp]

u don’t go LS on outlaw tho

[thorn turtle]

Damn that’s true

I guess just make LS main one, and go left for cto

[velvet nacelle]

@frank sail i dunno if i agree with that, vigor felt a lot more active to me and less of the "mini pooling", which is why i didn't swap until it was like a 2% upgrade

but "feel" is hard to quantify and very subjective

[vast hound]

are these still the best openers?

[velvet nacelle]

feel is why i can't play ff14

[frank sail]

@velvet nacelle What haste % are you at though?

[velvet nacelle]

low 20s now

[frank sail]

See im rocking at 28%

[velvet nacelle]

deeper was "technically better" at like 15

[viral meadow]

yeah pretty close

[gloomy fern]

im running deeper at 15, just do it

[viral meadow]

you running MA?

[torpid spoke]

You can look at openers in wowlogs. Go to the specific boss you want to know and talent combinations. Then go to time series and casts

[velvet nacelle]

@frank sail that makes sense, the higher you go the less you'd feel vigor

[torpid spoke]

Some people have slightly different but yeah that’s up to date

With deeper it’s 5+

[frank sail]

Not raiding till sunday to fully try it out D: but maybe il convince the guild to do an Alt run of CN NM so i can see how it feels

[velvet nacelle]

i pugged normal today

it was awful

only did first 7

[torpid spoke]

Def feels less intense than outlaw I tell you that

My boomer hands can’t keep up apm

[sullen pagoda]

deeper strat makes me want to kms sometimes

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[balmy condor]

[torpid spoke]

I think higher crit u have the better deeper strat gets

There’s prob some correlation there

[frank sail]

Deeper strat or Vigor for M+.

[balmy condor]

haste and crit are both factors, yes

generally just more finishers = better for deeper

[balmy condor]

usually vigor

[sullen pagoda]

i got fed some fat gear yesterday though https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Gk1yPppvjZ3V2CaUcKWAp

[regal chasm]

I sim better with deeper but it feels bad not being able to squeeze in 3 envenoms during shiv w/o pooling

Or without crits

[wanton reef]

Are there any trinkets that applies poison that has some synergy with assasination?

[arctic walrus]

@balmy condor that command doesn’t have double dose included

[wanton reef]

Like does mastery affect their damage?

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

shiv and mastery both do not affect trinkets

[wanton reef]

Big sad

[torpid spoke]

Vers does tho

[gentle gyro]

else that trinket from NW would be god tier

[torpid spoke]

😉

[balmy condor]

if they worked on trinkets

flayedwing might actually be good

[wanton reef]

Regardless tho, I suppose its worth upgrading phial to 220?

[gentle gyro]

it is indeed

if you get one

[ionic kelp]

sim it

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/LoGTmXh.png
PoV: You're trying to M+ as a rogue

[balmy condor]

yuh

[sullen pagoda]

not taking 226 quantum was big weirdChamp from weekly

[torpid spoke]

Lol I did it. I got it off first plaguefall I ran today

[ionic kelp]

using droptimizer - all dungeons - weekly chest 10

[visual sequoia]

wait, do u even use ambush after sepsis? makes no sense for me because still worse than mutilate right?

[torpid spoke]

Imagine shiv working on Phial oh boy

[gentle gyro]

you don't use the sepsis proc unless you want a silence from garrote

[visual sequoia]

No it just makes u use stealth abilities

the !mut command is wrong then

[gentle gyro]

it's not free from sepsis proc, thus I don't think one would ambush

[visual sequoia]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[gentle gyro]

@balmy condor halp

[balmy condor]

hm?

[pure skiff]

What is assassination opener with venthyr?

[balmy condor]

what am I helping with

[gentle gyro]

why does the mut command say ambush from sepsis

wouldn't the same logic apply as from stealth

[balmy condor]

well kinda

me and koji go in circles about it

because it's like 2-3 globals, the impact isn't easily measured

[arctic walrus]

Is it a free cost ability

[balmy condor]

no

but the reasoning is a lot more complicated than just 4>3

which is the simpleton answer

it goes into combo point thresholding and all that

[arctic walrus]

Then yes technically the same logic applies but it’s 1 global difference so who cares

[balmy condor]

so when you're popping that sepsis proc, it's actually seemingly neutral

[pliant apex]

I think it’s most mut-slice-flag-mut-gar-rup

[balmy condor]

and my profiles show that it's slightly better to not ambush

and koji's profiles show that it's slightly better to ambush

and so we go in circles about it

[velvet nacelle]

man i've been stuck at 27 renown for way too long now

[balmy condor]

on who's right and why

[arctic walrus]

What’s the difference

[velvet nacelle]

i'm wondering if there's a hard stop i'm missing, like i need to go do a quest or something

[arctic walrus]

Between your profile

[balmy condor]

gear, gems, soulbinds

koji has a wide array of profiles he tests things against

[velvet nacelle]

i've done 3 m0s since i mentioend it last and still no renown

[balmy condor]

I test it on like 3 profiles, and the common talents

[arctic walrus]

Off the top of your head what’s the energy difference

[balmy condor]

in the end though, it doesn't really matter, the differences are like 3-4 dps apart

[balmy condor]

wdym

[arctic walrus]

Is ambush 50?

[native belfry]

Could sm1 help me with a M+ rotation? I went to 15-16th yesterday with Zoldyck and was able to deal 5.5-6k overall but it felt like I'm pressing buttons like monkey and could deal so much more

[balmy condor]

yeah mut and ambush are both 50

[arctic walrus]

O then you mut on god no cap frfr

[balmy condor]

that's what I'm saying

[limber lion]

Ambush bad

[balmy condor]

but koji is like "yo it's 3 dps down"

and I'm like "yeah but it's 3 dps up"

and then we look at each other and go "those are both within margin, neither one of us is right"

and so nothing changes

and because the sims actually ambush from sepsis

that's why the pin says ambush as well

[tender fjord]

Doesn’t sound too bad, and yes that is kinda what it feels like sometimes

on tyrannical weeks on thrash

Thrash just dies whenever you finally dotted up

[native belfry]

I mean, should I rly take MFD instead of Vigor on Tyrannical?

[tender fjord]

What would you use mfd on?

[native belfry]

Well, that's the point:D My pally is destroying packs faster than by blood storm goes on:D

[tender fjord]

Exactly 🙂

[native belfry]

So I went vigor to kill bosses

[limber lion]

It is better, but it's a lot of work to play around properly

You snipe targets with the lowest TTD

[tender fjord]

By the time you throw out your 3 subt garrotes, throw a CT out

Everything is almost dead

[balmy condor]

I don't think MFD is always automatically the answer

[tender fjord]

A 5cp rupture would be wasteful

[limber lion]

I personally hate mfd and never use it and do just fine

[balmy condor]

mfd might sim higher

but like seli said earlier

[tender fjord]

5cp env might be nice if you could mfd env mfd env etc

[balmy condor]

it doesn't really help much in terms of actual speed of key

[tender fjord]

But that is iffy

[limber lion]

I did run a key in ToP with MA/MFD and that is pretty dank

[native belfry]

I think I'm gonna try it on a next week with enhanced trash

[tender fjord]

But mfd is not that special for me as a necro

Maybe if I wouldn’t be necro I would get more value

[desert rain]

I can't find necro sin on the top logs, what are you guys doing haha

[tender fjord]

I have a budget mfd that does dam with bonespike

[limber lion]

Mfd just takes way too much to get full value out of

[torpid spoke]

Only good with outlaw cd reduction IMO

Imagine if sin had outlaw cd reduction :0

[tender fjord]

Necro assass is a bit in between. For pure st you would go venth, for aoe you would go necro outlaw

[native belfry]

So I just garrote 3 times then CT on pack and if it's not dead I keep spamming fans and CT?

[tender fjord]

Try to keep some bleeds up for energy regen

If you want to big brain it, put a bleed on a mob slightly longer than you expect the mob to live

[desert rain]

I think necro assa is still a good spot where you would like to cleave but funnel a bit or the adds are spread, but there is not a boss like that in CN. You can cleave all the adds fight on CN

[quiet juniper]

does the venthyr flagelation conduit boost the overall damage of the ability or just the first strick ?

[native belfry]

Thanks mate!

[tender fjord]

Np 🙂

[limber lion]

You never spam fok/CT

[tender fjord]

Imagine if osh’s mastery big env build would be the dream

[limber lion]

You always prioritize putting up as many garrotes as you can, maintaining CT bleed up (not spamming) and rupturing every mob that lives the full duration

[native belfry]

Dude that's what I meant) I understand general concept of bleeding lol

[tender fjord]

I had the idea for spam fokct spam initially as well, but anyone who just tries to do this will discover they have no time to spam

[prime schooner]

Which cov is the best rn? venth or necro?

[tender fjord]

The Jedi

[limber lion]

The opener is 4 garrotes into CT as well, not just 3.

[balmy condor]

well, kinda

[native belfry]

Yeah, I was able to do 4 yesterday

[balmy condor]

I got in trouble for not being precise about that

[tender fjord]

I’m getting mixed results tho by switching it around

3 garr fok ct gar is nice

[limber lion]

:'( i just preach what you said

[balmy condor]

its technically sim-accurate to gar 3 times into a rup and then garrote again

so technically yes 4 garrotes

but also kinda not

[native belfry]

But felt so clumsy after spamming BP on sub

[tender fjord]

In aoe rupture before ct? 😱

[balmy condor]

usually, yeh

at least for sims

the rupture takes prio

[native belfry]

just for energy regen?

[balmy condor]

if you're doing like an ardenweald 90 mob pull

then probably not

[tender fjord]

Difficult to wrap my head around it but I’ll try it

[balmy condor]

yeh

[limber lion]

If you pug, you rarely even get the chance to do 4 garrotes in a row because pug tanks only pull 3 mobs at a time anyways

[tender fjord]

Yesterday’s bit of m+ really made me miss fortified tho

[native belfry]

Imagine getting into pug group as rogue

[tender fjord]

Just say you watch Jpc and deleted rupture from your actionbar

People like that

[gentle gyro]

same

running 15s 16s 17s with guildies

gets declined for 12s pugs

[native belfry]

So true

[tender fjord]

The valor system f’ed up the lfg system tbh

[limber lion]

Idk I get into groups fine

[tender fjord]

I queued a dos16 and had 60 applications within the minute

[limber lion]

I mean it takes some time and definitely quite a few applications

[sterile sinew]

1600 io doing 2s

[quiet juniper]

if you dont have 1k7 rio why do u even aply for +12 ?

[tender fjord]

All people with almost 2k rio

[native belfry]

KSMd on sub and got kicked bc no pirate rofl

[gentle gyro]

i'll have you know that I have 1.5k

[tender fjord]

People want the loot to upgrade

[limber lion]

Not sure if you just apply 3 groups and except to get accepted

[gentle gyro]

@limber lion did you see the screencap i posted earlier?

3?

more like 30

[quiet juniper]

not enough for the average dude that want to get a free boost

[limber lion]

Rip

[gentle gyro]

i'm just spamming mists til i have my fucking daggers

[limber lion]

As long as you apply to keys that make sense (+1 of your best) then it should be fine. Idk

What's your ilvl?

[velvet nacelle]

dude that's 0 for 7 on normal raid bosses, 0 for like 7 on heroic dungeons and 0 for 4 on mythics trying to get 1 renown

[torpid spoke]

Maybe progress the story

[native belfry]

Dude no one is gonna take rogue over mage or hunter bc they have hero and they're rdds

[velvet nacelle]

campaign is done

[grand echo]

feels like if you have high ilvl and semi high renown you cant get it easily.. Like i tried farming multiple heroics got 0, i did lfr got 0

[quiet juniper]

Man if I timed mist +10 then I should be able to time a +13, I don't have time nor the will to time everything 1 by 1 each time a +1

[grand echo]

im 27 now

[velvet nacelle]

i'm stuck on 27

[gentle gyro]

216 ilvl, 1.3k on the rogue, 1.5k on main

[lament mica]

it kinda feels like u can hit an invisible daily hard cap on renonwn

[limber lion]

L0l that's the issue then

[lament mica]

try a diff type of content

or giveup for the day

[limber lion]

There's people trying to apply with literally 225-227 ilvl

[velvet nacelle]

@limber lion what is?

[grand echo]

I have received total 0 from HC dungeons

waste of time

[limber lion]

You'll never get intona group with 215 ilvl

[velvet nacelle]

oh yeah

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/odVtmGO.png

[velvet nacelle]

people are hella elitist this expansion too

[gentle gyro]

im trying to farm my fucking weapons

[limber lion]

I would just focus on doing something else to get your ilvl up before trying to push high keys

[velvet nacelle]

like way more so

i saw people posting sub 10 keys requiring 1k io

[gentle gyro]

i'm not pushing high keys lmao, 14 aint high

[tender fjord]

I had multiple 223+ boomies with >2k rio queuing up for the IQD drop

Kicked two of them because they came in telling they’d need it over anyone else

3rd one flamed the tank for having 700 rio less than him and proposing a safe route

[velvet nacelle]

like, what are you thinking when you post a +3-5 mists and require 1k io

i feel bad for tanks now

[wispy marsh]

Is Sin now competitive for ST dmg? Looking at logs for past couple days and it's holding it's own looks like

[tender fjord]

Still were able to start the dungeon within 5 minutes from queuing

[wispy marsh]

Talking about raiding*

[tender fjord]

Yes

[wispy marsh]

Hell yeah brother

[limber lion]

Usually it's also people who are 400 rio themselves.

[velvet nacelle]

sin was beating sub for the ST fights previous patch too

@limber lion yeah, it's just insanity

[lament mica]

well its not like sin is competing aginst sub

its competing agaisnt good specs

[velvet nacelle]

i got rejected from a +5 key earlier this week with a 1k io and 219 equipped

[limber lion]

Sin is top 3 in ST

[iron orchid]

I get rejected in 10 to 12 keys when i'm sitting at 1788 rio

[reef axle]

every key ive done this week has left the others in the dust on boss damage xD

[grand echo]

i have 225 ilvl and I still get rejected 9/10 times 🤷‍♀️

[iron orchid]

people just don't want any melee

[lament mica]

its not even just melee. ppl just want the 3 meta specs

[willow isle]

Hi. I heard that assa has low APM but I would like to hear opinions based on players which have assa as a main. I have havoc as a main and I would like to have something for rest

[velvet nacelle]

it's goofy because outlaw IS a meta spec for M+

[limber lion]

Yeh I'm 226 1.7k and get rejected all the time

[lament mica]

my guild locks complain all the time about gettng into m+

[limber lion]

You boys need to get premade group filter addon

[grand echo]

well if i was the one putting together the group for timed high key m+ I wouldnt invite assa rogues anyway

[limber lion]

It helps with finding groups when you get declined from all of them

[gloomy fern]

i never get rejected, but i dont play or apply to m+

[velvet nacelle]

@limber lion i use it, but unless there's a "filter elitist douchenozzle" checkbox i'm not seeing, i don't see it helping with this particular problem

[lament mica]

yes ass is low APM

[limber lion]

It is a lot slower APM but I still find myself spamming my keys regardless. But you can definitely play it slower.

[tender fjord]

If there is 60 people applying of which half are full OP meta classes with insane rio, why would you ever take a relatively low rogue

[lament mica]

it requires more pooling and thinking than many other specs

[normal mist]

As someone who only plays assa, now is a good time for you to try it. We better than ever, smooth rotation, amazing ST and good cleave/aoe

[tender fjord]

You’re not Doctors Without Borders

[velvet nacelle]

"pooling"

[willow isle]

Okay, thas is good to hear :) Thanks for your replies :)

[velvet nacelle]

pooling now is a joke compared to old school stuff, but you definitely want to think about how to burst spend your energy

[lament mica]

i mean u can say its a joke compared to old school stuff, but considering a majority of specs are ABC/ whack a mole...

[tender fjord]

If you really want low apm take DS, that feels like thick mud dripping through a small funnel

[balmy condor]

it takes a gentle, slow hand to enjoy ass

[lament mica]

facts

[lament raptor]

sass is ass

[lament dove]

ass per minute

[limber lion]

I still spam my mutilate when I'm at 0 energy and then wonder why my hand hurts after an hour of playing

[tender fjord]

Assass is feeling a groove and jamming, compared to outlaw seizing on dance songs

[lament mica]

this SS is actually better

[merry fox]

"gentle, slow hand to enjoy ass"

[velvet nacelle]

assassination feels like a rhythm

[lament mica]

look at all that sweet time to think about wat ur eating for dinner nad give ur fingers a rest

[velvet nacelle]

you hit buttons quick, then you kind of chill, then you hit buttons quick, back to chill

[lament mica]

feral and ass are brothers.

[balmy condor]

a motion of the ocean, if you may

[lament raptor]

hairy ass

[velvet nacelle]

feral is so much easier

[lament mica]

have u played it or r u just saying that

[limber lion]

Assa's not really a hard spec, so I don't know if I'd consider Feral "so much easier"

[vestal wren]

assassination's apm is even lower if you don't play blindside

[desert rain]

How ahead is venth compared to NF for ass right now? Feels like the venth conduit is a bit overloaded

[little sky]

ohai erryone

[dim temple]

Hi @little sky

[velvet nacelle]

@desert rain those kinds of questions are typically pinned, but they're close enough that you should just play which ever covenant you like

unless it's kyrian

[dim temple]

I am Trying to do the opner been seen on the top 10 logs .. most of them Cast Flag before rup .. its for the haste buff to rup? right what opner get most out of ?

[little sky]

damn i wanted so much to try assa last night, but i didn't have enough soul ash for a rank 3 legendary lol

quiestion on raidbots, is there any way to see how much dps i lose from a rank 3 and a rank 4 legendary?

[lament mica]

its cuz u wanna spend CP when flag is up

cuz it lashes

[little sky]

cause rank 3 gloves are super cheap, like a quarter of the price of spaulders 😛

[velvet nacelle]

the difference between rank 2 and rank 4 legendaries is like 50 dps

[wanton reef]

what about rank 1 and rank 2 ?

[velvet nacelle]

probably less than that

i'm planning on making the 2s then upgrading to 4 in a few weeks

[little sky]

ok, nice. i'm aiming to rank 3 exactly because it's skip territory and it's super cheap to craft

[wanton reef]

So in a raid, worth going for 190 doomsblade instead of 210 zoldryck 😛 ?

[lament mica]

r3-r4 feels like a scam. lowest ilvl increase for the most ash

[velvet nacelle]

and i'm going against advice by making shoulders since my shoulders are only 210 and i have 226 gloves

and i don't think mythic SLG is in the cards

[cunning surge]

Sounds better for you overall

[velvet nacelle]

yeah, go figure, making an informed decision instead of asking for a template

[cunning surge]

[velvet nacelle]

gonna lose like 2 ilvl this week though since my MA's are 234 and are getting replaced with a 210 in the slot

i could try to finish KSM and upgrade something to 220 in the slot but i've only done 1 15 so far so that feels like effort i don't want to put in on an annoying affix week

[little sky]

lol, rank 3 gloves are 25k

gonna snatch those immediately and be doen with them.

i have a 207ilvl spaulders in bag, so dropping form a 213 shouldn't be terrible.

[velvet nacelle]

i've gotten so few wrist items this expansion it's ridiculous

i jumped from like 155 to 184 to 210 not including legendaries

[gloomy fern]

just buy 226

[little sky]

yeah. gearing up has been mostly about huge weekly jumps than actually getting things around.

[velvet nacelle]

yeah i'm not a fan of the looting system prior to this patch

who knows how much the valor change will affect me, if it's account wide it'll be good for my alts but i dunno that my main will benefit

[little sky]

VP are good. now they need something on the line for raid and we'll have something really good rolling

[velvet nacelle]

well raid drops more now, that was a noticeable change

[little sky]

seems it's account wide. and it's good, since if i have all 15s, i probably won't need valor that much

[velvet nacelle]

but i have all 210s now so until i finish KSM i can't upgrade anything anyways... i guess i could get better secondary stats but i'm not sweating that too much

[little sky]

on the other side alts can use it, but it's not like you can spam 2s and get to 220, due to slow farming and high-ish costs.

[velvet nacelle]

my alts will benefit nicely though

[gloomy fern]

u can make it 213 with all 10s i think

[velvet nacelle]

210

all 15s gets you 220s

[lament mica]

i mean u can spam 2s theres nothing stopping u

and upgrade to 220

i twill just take a dumb amount of runs lol

[little sky]

exactly

i don't think it's even doable

like, a 2h weap to upgrade from 187 to 220 is more than 10k VP

[velvet nacelle]

i mean, it's only 135 valor per mythic regardless of level

[little sky]

we don't even have the cap for that and it's a single item

[lament mica]

the most expensive thing by far but ya

lol

[gloomy fern]

actually can make ur items 213 by completing 1x15 in time

[velvet nacelle]

but doing i think 14s makes 210s drop

is it 213?

i forget what they changed it to

[gloomy fern]

i think only the last 2 is all 15

[lament mica]

i thought it was 207 from 14

and 210 from 1%+

15+*

[little sky]

one 14 per week not even in time gets you a 226 in the cache and it's gonna be an upgrade most of the times aswell

[velvet nacelle]

@little sky it hasn't been for 2 months

it keeps being in the same slots for me

[little sky]

lol

[velvet nacelle]

i've pulled stygia like 5 times in the past 2 months doing 14s

[little sky]

rng is a bitch

i've been luck fort he most part must admit

[lament mica]

grosss... u dont raid or pvp either?

[little sky]

yet still 194 phial XD

[lament mica]

ive never had to take stygia betwen the 3

[gloomy fern]

@velvet nacelle so you could go up 3 ilvls

[velvet nacelle]

@lament mica i get all 3 raid boxes every week for heroic (we haven't dropped 3 in mythic yet)

and usually 1 or 2 pvp boxes

[regal chasm]

Tried a 15 key as sin for fun, sure feels like more effort for arguably less result haha. It may be lower apm than outlaw but somehow feels more hectic especially the initial gar rup spreading

[velvet nacelle]

BUT my pvp rating is only 1400 so it's not too useful

[blazing arrow]

@little sky this is a bit off topic.

But did you used to raid with Towellie? Your name seems awfully familiar to me

[regal chasm]

Also feels like not getting value out of MA just doing those garrotes

[lament mica]

the rating u get the item dones't really matter cuz u can upgrade it but if u dont plan on pvping a lot then ya

[velvet nacelle]

@regal chasm that's how i felt but i can see myself running it in a strong group on tyrannical weeks if other people have good cleave

@lament mica i don't have any pvp friends to do arenas with

at least not with reasonable comps

and my rbg luck has been... tough

lots of really bad groups

[lament mica]

ya its rough out there

[little sky]

the name doesn't ring in my head, but i'm playing for a long time. ex-MMOC mod, guide author on wowhead, etc.

right now the filthiest of casuals 😄

[velvet nacelle]

i would love to do more arenas

but i don't know a single pvp minded mage and i'm done pugging and tanking rating

[cunning surge]

I feel that

[blazing arrow]

@little sky ah that's where i know your name from

[cunning surge]

2s are fun but pugging then is doodoo buttcheese

[lament mica]

just do 2s with disc and play ass

[velvet nacelle]

i heard they made 2s better now

[lament mica]

disc preist not

discord

[little sky]

yeah, i supposed so 😄

[lament mica]

its braindead just pve

[cunning surge]

Honestly my partner is a Disc Priest

[lament mica]

kidney on CD

[cunning surge]

But she doesn't really care for PVP

[velvet nacelle]

@lament mica yeah that's the best comp i have access to right now, but my disc priest friend rolled a warrior and now that's all he wants to pvp on

i can't say i blame him

[lament mica]

u could do 3s

with that comp

pug a healer and do setups between u 2

[velvet nacelle]

i need to learn how to arena with assassination, i spent the past few years doing too many bgs

[cunning surge]

Yeah that could pulp

[velvet nacelle]

you learn baaaad habits in random bgs

[cunning surge]

Yeah it's definitely another game completely

[velvet nacelle]

i was watching a lot of pikaboo videos when i was pushing my 2s rating initially

i used to do a ton of arenas back in wrath but that was also a different game

[cunning surge]

I did 2s with some past friends in MoP

Never got too high of a rating but damn it was fun

[surreal anchor]

Hey guys I'm currently leveling a fresh rogue. Love the class and getting bored of my lock. That said is muta the top dog spec after the patch notes? I'm looking at logs and it's destroying even aff locks on some fights

[cunning surge]

Sin + Brewmaster/Blood

[balmy condor]

single target, yeh

[cunning surge]

Sin is pulping hard now for sure, Outlaw beats us in AoE/Cleave still

[surreal anchor]

Cleave too? On huntsman ass is beating outlaw

[little sky]

which is fine, spent time to learn and gear for it, i'm happy it's not wasted.

[surreal anchor]

So I'm confused

[balmy condor]

2 target is sin territory

3-7 is outlaw territory

[surreal anchor]

gotcha so like multi cleave

ok

[cunning surge]

Yeah!! Sorry I should have specified

[grim hornet]

Hey guys

[little sky]

in CN, assa is fine on everything if not the best option

[cunning surge]

And yeah, I've played Sin this whole Expac now and I'm happy about it

[little sky]

allo @grim hornet

[cunning surge]

Sup sup

[grim hornet]

is necrolord sin very far behind venthyr sin?

[lament mica]

mythic SLG specifically outlaw is prob better at least from a raw damage standpoint

[cunning surge]

I don't think so, we got it in the pins tho

[grim hornet]

Im outlaw raider and m+ pusher rn but probably will give a try to sin on denathrius mm

[lament mica]

thats a fight they shine as a spec

[grim hornet]

and don't wanna swap covenants every fukin month 😦

[cunning surge]

You should be fine as Necrolord honestly

[little sky]

they're more or less on the same level. Venthyr is bis but by not much

fuck sims, choose by cosmetics 😄

[cunning surge]

What about Kyrian?

[grim hornet]

hope i could but im a fuckin sim ape

[little sky]

you really want the angel wings?

[iron orchid]

Necro is really fine

[cunning surge]

I mean, I could probably think of a cool angelic mog for sin

I live for crack mogs of any theme

That being said, that's most of why I went Night Fae

I like the way everything looked and Sepsis was a fine ability, and Soul Shape felt p e r f e c t

[grim hornet]

agree

[little sky]

i don't feel the need for soulshape, we have good mobility

[grim hornet]

dropping soulshape will hurt my feelingz

[little sky]

must be said that of all covenants, Fae is the hands down most polished and thought out one

[strange python]

Life is about being a venthyr

[rancid gulch]

dropped fairy to be a vampire rn

[cunning surge]

Oh yeah, there's no need for Soulshape

[rancid gulch]

best decision

[cunning surge]

It's just really really nice

[strange python]

I'm currently in the middle of leveling all 12 classes to venthyr
6 down 6 to go

[little sky]

i just love Venthyr as a whole. COncept, aesthethics, etc

i did other 3 characters for the other. did shaman fae, priest kyrian and now dk necro

[strange python]

The only thing I don't like is ember Court, I think build an abomination is way cooler

[little sky]

but if i am an undead dk, cannot i just apply the abomination stuff onto my body directly.

[cunning surge]

Necro Undead should just become an Abomination

[little sky]

would be awesome

[glad tartan]

stats ? on leggo

[cunning surge]

H/C or H/V

Depending on how you Sim

[glad tartan]

okei 😄

[gloomy fern]

they should let you scrap legys for like 70% soul ash back or something

2180 short for doomblade lvl 4

[cunning surge]

At least that's exactly 2 weeks of Torghast

Not an Ash less or more

[grim hornet]

sin going doomblade for denathrius now? or still zoldyck?

[cunning surge]

Zoldyck I believe

That P3 is too important

P1 and P2 are alright
But everything depends on that last chunk

[glossy turret]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[warped shale]

!guide

[wispy leaf]

The Gap between 3 and 4 is just insane

[lament mica]

parse=doomblade prog= zoldyck. altho sum1 in here was talking about doomblade outperforming zoldyck in p3 sire in his rekill tonight, so who knows.

mik i think i twas

[warped shale]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[cunning surge]

Something to keep an eye out for I feel

[lament mica]

it doesnt make any sense zoldyck would lose in straight up execute, but maybe doomblade is just that overtuned

[balmy condor]

it doesn't

[cunning surge]

It could also be Denathrius getting hard pulped so not a lot of Bleeds and poison ticks went off

Is my assumption

[gentle gyro]

what do i take on theotar for the last row? potency conduit with useless trait or finesse conduit + teatime

[balmy condor]

can sim it, usually tea time is slightly better

[gentle gyro]

forgot to say for m+, for single target i'd guess teatime

but for m+ LP should do more than 6% vers every so often, no?

[balmy condor]

for m+ you take the thingy on the right

[gentle gyro]

really? aight i guess

i just unlocked the final row so i took the potency conduit up until now

[balmy condor]

for single target you take the one in the middle

the left has the potency conduit I think

[gentle gyro]

higher potion uptime?

[balmy condor]

but potency conduits suck

yeah

that's the one

[gentle gyro]

left is potency + the token for heals, middle is endurance + potions and right is finesse + teatime

[strange python]

since trinkets like dreadvessel or skulkers is off gcd isnt it worth to press it after vanish to get affected by the crit?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[gentle gyro]

or i just go draven

[balmy condor]

so left is bad
middle is single target
right is m+

[balmy condor]

would be smart, but they aren't affected by it, so that kinda ruins it don't it

[mystic island]

so assassination is back up top huh?

[strange python]

ma affected only by rogue abilitys?

[balmy condor]

yeah, always has been

[cunning surge]

Legendary now does it too

[gentle gyro]

except those things in NW which they nerfed

so uh

[balmy condor]

although I think jpc has been saying otherwise, cause he's an idiot who doesn't know any better

[naive rock]

I was looking at sin on warcraft logs the initial look seems bad, but it you break it down by the higher ilvl its one of the highest preforming specs

[balmy condor]

but the talent has never done that

and the legendary got fixed to not do it

[cunning surge]

^

[strange python]

he said press always those trinkets after using bte

[tall token]

I just simmed myself and Doomblade does higher dps than Zoldyck in dungeon slice/m+. Wasnt Zoldyck the recommended legendary for m+ and Doomblade for single target?

[strange python]

bcz 20% critchance

[gentle gyro]

does it rub anyone else the wrong way that we basically have the same effect twice

[manic haven]

Don’t suppose anybody knows what necro tree has been performing best in CN? Trying to decide how to allocate between outlaw and sin

[gentle gyro]

except one is a 50% gamble

[naive rock]

@balmy condor do you use oil or stones for sin?

[balmy condor]

yeah bte still works, none of sin's shit does tho

[balmy condor]

personally stones because I can't be fucked with oil rng

[balmy condor]

heirmir

[lament dove]

not sure how the sim goes, but I find myself mutilating more lately because FoK sucks, so I will definetly try out doomblade in m+... once I have it crafted next week... or maybe I spend some extra gold and craft r3 this week... must... resist...

[balmy condor]

doomblade can be okay, but zoldyck still remains the recommended cause doom is worthless on 4+ targets

[gentle gyro]

i think it's better if you have very low crit

because if you have no crit FoK is trash

[balmy condor]

thats..... not actually how that works

[gentle gyro]

"better" in the sense of "less bad"

because you would use mut instead of FoK

which is still bad

[balmy condor]

sure

but that's not actually tied to crit

mut and fok both have to crit to seal fate

[gentle gyro]

yes but if you FoK for one cp 3 times

it'd be better to use mut for the extra bleed

with doomblade

[dim temple]

Will Rupture Trick faster if you use Flag before it ?

[gentle gyro]

because mut gives you 2 baseline

[eager abyss]

Hi, bit of a general question but what spec is suited well for m+ and pvp? If I wanted to just focus on one? 🙂

[shadow helm]

cto fix is a god send

[outer lodge]

@balmy condor still can't settle on an opening rotation that feels really good yet with DS. What opener do you like?

[shadow helm]

100000000 buffs

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut gar vend flag rup shiv vanish mut

[shadow helm]

does taht worth with DS too

vigor 4 nerds

[balmy condor]

it's identical to the vigor opener, yes

[outer lodge]

after vanish - mut-env-mut?

[gentle gyro]

i like vigor..

[balmy condor]

yeah, mut to 5, env, mut to 5, env, over and over, just like normal

[hollow escarp]

any doomblade boys?

[shadow helm]

dh bonkers again??

[outer lodge]

its just one Env inside the MA window though correct?

[lament dove]

I will craft shoulder because I don't raid mythic and haste/crit gloves from m+ 🙂

[gentle gyro]

it's so you can spend more CP to max out flag

[outer lodge]

part of me wants to get cps before to vanish-env-mut env

[shadow helm]

glad i bought my legendary piece before 9.0.5

[gentle gyro]

because maxing out flag to 30% is actually impossible if your mut doesn't crit

[hollow escarp]

@shadow helm it was stupid of me not leveling it before the patch

[gentle gyro]

or you have absurd haste i guess

[hollow escarp]

lost a bunch of sales

[balmy condor]

either is fine

the difference is actually marginal

[shadow helm]

`then again

i have doomblade shoulders

[hollow escarp]

[gentle gyro]

i need to check sth at a dummy later

[hollow escarp]

tbf, I already had 220 shoulders

[hollow escarp]

and 213 hands

ohh

also got 226 replacement for legs

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/vIfWiQI.png

[iron orchid]

I finally got my first 220 mists dagger

1800+ valor farmed and 7 mists 16/15 runs

only need one more

[gentle gyro]

doing the same atm

10 runs, no luck

[hollow escarp]

should probably do that, although I have 223/220 daggers

[cunning surge]

I'm sitting on 220/200

[lament mica]

hit that m+ u goof

[gentle gyro]

sitting on 197/200

[cunning surge]

I feel I'm better off spending my time and valor on PF

[shadow helm]

i hate using subterfuge OMG

[hollow escarp]

also got poxstorm 223

[outer lodge]

i have 233 dagers..... i just need a phial that wont drop....

[simple kettle]

Guys I'm Necro and 20% haste and Deeper is simming 50dps better than vigor. Is that normal?

[cunning surge]

That sounds about right I feel

[gentle gyro]

doesn't sound odd at least

[hollow escarp]

it also simmed higher for me yesterday, went for it on raid night and I wasn't dissapointed

opener a bit slower but it's fine

it's ramping

[outer lodge]

Running with Dreadfire vessel atm - any ability worth binding it with since its a 1.5m cd? Or do i need seperate bind?

[cunning surge]

Venth?

[hollow escarp]

I have it on Sepsis but I also have a separate keybind in case I wanna hold Sepsis

[outer lodge]

im venth yeah

[cunning surge]

You could bind to Flag since they're both 1.5m

[radiant fossil]

Dont you hold flag to line up with vendetta ?

[hollow escarp]

sometimes

[gentle gyro]

only if you won't miss another cast for it

[cunning surge]

Only if it's gonna be your last cast of the fight

[gentle gyro]

aka if you know you won't get another vendetta flag in the fight

[radiant fossil]

Ho yeah make sense. im dumb 😄

[hollow escarp]

I usually cast the first 2 on cd and then let the 3rd line with vendetta

[cunning surge]

Nah it's a fair question

[hollow escarp]

it's probably the same for both NF and Venthyr

[gentle gyro]

it's also not BAD to do it because chances are you'll get more out of flag together with vendetta due to more available energy to get CP out

but it's genrally better to just f&f it

[outer lodge]

f&f?

[cunning surge]

Fire and Forget

[outer lodge]

are u on KJ btw Blaze?

[cunning surge]

Ye

[outer lodge]

I think we used to raid together?

[cunning surge]

I think we did, you're on my friends list

Blacklisted?

[outer lodge]

yeah

And lobster gang before i think?