assassination

[velvet nacelle]

so now i can tunnel 🙂

[fleet anchor]

Honestly I think people are just bored and want an excuse for swapping lol

[lean fossil]

so why did you switch?

[balmy condor]

That’s also valid

[balmy condor]

I like the ability

[lean fossil]

ive thought about it, but im lazy as fuck haja

[sinful flicker]

hey, just wondering again, with 9.0.5 coming out next week, is the BiS leg for ass still zoldyck?

[fleet anchor]

I'm of the stance that I'm not giving up my upgrades or regrinding unless something is considerably better to some really notable degree, which it probably isn't atm

I mean I'd swap off Kyrian probably if I was playing Assassination

But that's about the extent of it

[lean fossil]

im feeling the same way, ill just stay nf

[balmy condor]

Oh also my dungeon group doesn’t have a venthyr

So

That helps

[frozen karma]

think I'll stick to MA, was simming over 100+ dps last time I check over subt but at the same time you can put a big garrote on Remoria which would result in more boss dmg right?

[fleet anchor]

I'm using MA

Personally

All that matters to me on that fight is P3 boss damage

Everything else is fluff tbh

[drifting cloud]

I used 2 vendettas before p3

[fleet anchor]

If you multi-dot Remornia+Sire effectively in P2 you'll be doing your job well enough, and just focus on P3 damage. I don't think Subt brings too much.

[velvet nacelle]

how good are the necro and venthyr buffs that are coming anyways?

[stoic needle]

two words: blade cape

[lean fossil]

ive been using subt for the adds

[fleet anchor]

Especially since I'm using my P2 Vendetta on 2nd platform which only has Sire as another target, no triple cleave

[balmy condor]

Million pins on the matter

[tribal marlin]

"Empowered Septic Shock : Sepsis now spread to a nearby target everytime it deals damage."

[fleet anchor]

Don't really get much out of Subterfuge

[velvet nacelle]

oh my bad, i'll check pins after raid

[lean fossil]

gotta look good amrite?!

[stoic needle]

you can get a quad subterfuge garotte at the beginning of p2

remornia, sire, 2 adds

that's pretty big

[balmy condor]

Quad.....subterfuge...

[stoic needle]

ok triple

+1 extra

[velvet nacelle]

@stoic needle stop. i can only get so aroused.

[fleet anchor]

In theory yeah, but first add is really easy

[lean fossil]

dont forget that rupture ;)

[stoic needle]

you have time to rupture both sire and remornia as he does the RP after landing in p2

[fleet anchor]

Vendetta is really strong for 2nd add

[drifting cloud]

oshosi, wrong difficulty

[fleet anchor]

I wouldn't really want to blow my Vanish on first platform tbh

[lean fossil]

yep lol then vanish and shadowstep to an add

[stoic needle]

does he not do the same thing in mythic?

[drifting cloud]

no 😛

[balmy condor]

There’s mini bosses on mythic

[stoic needle]

yeah i know that

[drifting cloud]

theres no small ads on mythic until youre in p2 for almost 2min

[stoic needle]

oh

[lean fossil]

this is a heroic raiding discord at this point lol

[balmy condor]

????

[lean fossil]

outlaw has more of the mythic players haha

[tribal marlin]

Empowered Poisoned Katar : Whenever Fan of Knive deals a critical hit damage it fire a second volley of knives.

[fleet anchor]

I mean for pure DPS pad/parse purposes probably Subt triple garrote first platform then Subt triple garrote end of P2 on Cabalist is probably the play, but that's actively detrimental to actually killing the boss so lol

[nocturne hawk]

Gotta get that 5th subt garotte off in mythic

[drifting cloud]

you dont lose any cds koji, you just lose the vendetta in lust

[fleet anchor]

Losing Vendetta in lust is like... kinda a big deal no?

[drifting cloud]

I guess its also depends how your guild lusts

I noticed im losing half of it anyways

[fleet anchor]

I mean early on prog when we weren't pushing P2 by HP I used Vendetta at the end of P2 to help push but like

[drifting cloud]

with the insta lust after bp2, you prolly have to delay by like 5sec

[tribal marlin]

Problem is that we are lusting at a timer where you basically have to choose if you do 2 vendetta outside of lust or only 1 in lust. Edit : If you want to have all in execute*

[fleet anchor]

We push either by HP or at 41% or whatever now

So there's really no point

[tribal marlin]

that's my biggest issue currently

[drifting cloud]

and if you lose the lust vendetta you can just delay your first one so then both are in execute

unless youre so deep on farm the boss dies before all 20s of 2nd one

[tribal marlin]

Yeah that's what happens to us

we start doing <10:00 kills

so I'll just start using vendetta at start of phase 3 and then during lust

[fleet anchor]

It's almost certainly going to be more DPS to have Vendetta+lust + Vendetta in execute than two Vendettas outside of lust in Execute

[tribal marlin]

but it also mean you loose a vendetta during phase 2 which is possibly not a problem

[fleet anchor]

Not an issue with our group DPS no

[drifting cloud]

I dunno id have to double check logs but I had slight issues

when I vendetta start of p3 it comes up like 5s before overlap

and lust is 10-15s left at that point

I guess just vendettaing when youre 10yards away from boss coming in p3 would help

[fleet anchor]

We delay our lust a little bit until after the Blood Price

[tribal marlin]

btw : Empowered Planned Execution : Symbols of death now also increase critical strike damage by 30%.

[fleet anchor]

So I just set up DoTs and whatnot at the start

Then go wild after we are done being a ping pong ball

[drifting cloud]

yeah but dont you just waste the lust seconds

since theyre in the overlap?

[fleet anchor]

How do you mean?

[velvet nacelle]

i think i just like assassination more, haven't really played it since legion

[drifting cloud]

everyone is moving, most melee isnt in range of the boss

[civic trellis]

???

[fleet anchor]

I dunno, our tanks basically keep it in range the entire time after the Blood Price moving to the melee group soaks

[civic trellis]

Is that real?

My heart

[drifting cloud]

no I mean during the overlap, the "just live"

[tribal marlin]

My dreamwishes for Empowered Conduits

[civic trellis]

😦

[tribal marlin]

You'll see in 9.1 PTR 😄

[stoic needle]

Empowered Maim, Mangle: Garotte now awards 2 CP when used from stealth

[tribal marlin]

that one would be pog

maybe not that impactful tho

[balmy condor]

Just miki saying stuff

[civic trellis]

Do you guys sim around 150 dps difference in st between venthyr and necro?

around that

[drifting cloud]

just checked when he finishes casting reflection theres still 5s of lust and we lust 1s after bp

[stoic needle]

Empowered Well Placed Steel: Your next Envenom after casting Shiv has a 100% chance to proc Poison Bomb

[balmy condor]

On live, ptr?

[civic trellis]

Ptr

[fleet anchor]

With our timing it happens before that, since we lust at like 7:05 or something then by 9:05 that's the "normal" soak following the 2nd massacre, but before the panic last one

[balmy condor]

Something like that yeh

[fleet anchor]

But dunno what you guys first lust is exactly

[balmy condor]

Not sure if it’s 100 or 150 or 70 or whatever

[drifting cloud]

wait you lust in melee at 7:05?

[velvet nacelle]

@stark whale damn. those pins are like, exactly the questions i was gonna ask

GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[balmy condor]

But it’s in that ball park

[civic trellis]

Ohh i see on the pins nf is ahead of necro

[balmy condor]

That’s the point

[civic trellis]

but on my sims isnt

[fleet anchor]

7:05-7:10 whenever the Blood Price ends

[tribal marlin]

The melee lust is ~9:00 because it line up with DK Army (if they used twice in phase 2)

[civic trellis]

!bis

!t26

[balmy condor]

Gone

[drifting cloud]

oh so youre lusting both realms after bp1, isnt the more common strat for melee lust to be after bp2

[stoic needle]

bis list is kill

@balmy condor send me the secret list for sim purposes 👀

[fleet anchor]

Dunno, it lines up well for our classes

[civic trellis]

I mean i wanna know the stats in that sim

[balmy condor]

Neigh

[civic trellis]

to see why necro is simming higher than nf for me

[stoic needle]

but its for science

[velvet nacelle]

@stark whale i know but uh... not every discord is as... details? efficient? something as this

[fleet anchor]

We talked about delaying longer but didn't seem ideal

[stoic needle]

the people want more sims

[fleet anchor]

If you're doing 2nd one yeah I can see the difficulty

[stoic needle]

let me give the people what they want

[tribal marlin]

The lust is probably better at 7:00 for melees because you have longer "free" time than after 2nd blood price, but remember that Limit prog'd the boss with 3 unholy (3 or 4 ?)

so using lust with Army was the go

[devout ingot]

nadjia for sin yeah?

[balmy condor]

Guess I’m just bill diffren

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[lament mica]

and both crit

[tribal marlin]

And they were also forced to use 2nd army in phase 2 to push boss damage as well. So it made sense to use lust at this moment.

[lament mica]

wait

wat was i looking at lma o i didnt scrtoll down

[balmy condor]

No clue

[fleet anchor]

Yeah makes sense

[strange python]

Hi

[primal zinc]

hello sins

do we have comparisons between assassins and outlaws/subs from ptr? on sims?

[tribal marlin]

all spec channel have public sims posted in pinned message

[stoic needle]

im working on a venthyr talent leggo conduit deep dive

[strong locust]

Anyone played sin with necro? Does it feel awkward af?

[dense hamlet]

why would it be

[obsidian willow]

Will sin rogue beat law in m+ now?

[young pebble]

no

[dense hamlet]

nop

[obsidian willow]

Like, definitely no?

Not even close?

[bright turret]

why would it? it's only getting big ST gains

and outlaw is also getting stronger in the patch

[obsidian willow]

How so?

[dense hamlet]

necro

[bright turret]

cto bug fixed and necro buffs

[dense hamlet]

necro also flurrys

its not beating outlaw anytime soon in mplus but st it is by like 3% or more

[obsidian willow]

Lol really???

[low girder]

The CtO bugfix is tiny

Its mostly just quality of life

[civic trellis]

Well if you played around that bug 😄

Delaying vanish etc

its good improvement for those who didnt care

[gray fjord]

It'll be a more noticeable improvement in M+ than raiding

But yeah if you knew what not to do it was manageable, just annoying. xD

Still probably a minor gain though.

[rotund oak]

venthyr is the go,lots of haste,very excited for assassination in 9.0.5

ST it will pump

[gray fjord]

Definitely happy to see both Venthyr and Necro getting some attention.

[rotund oak]

like,after dunno 5-6months of being nowhere,assa is coming back wild

outshining outlaw,its pretty big

[gray fjord]

I'd like to see rogues across the board just a few ranks higher in damage for raiding, to be entirely honest. ^^; Being a pure DPS spec and the only melee one has not been very favorable it seems yet.

We'll see though how the expac plays out. I'm curious what the 'empowered conduits' thing will do and if it would be enough to tip the scales in favor of certain classes/specs. Plus whatever other borrowed powers they plan on bringing in the future

[misty holly]

I went necro specifically because it bone spike had the best feel of all the covenant abilities. So no, not awkward.

[potent barn]

Guys is necro the best if I want to play outlaw and sin simultaneously?

[viral kite]

prob

necro is good

feels good to use

venth is a long cd

[misty holly]

Imagine all this time people are expecting 2 legendaries to be what gets added in later shadowlands patch, but in reality we are getting 2 specs at once!

[burnt tartan]

can't handle all these buttons

[misty holly]

Same, I just want to play diablo 3 where you only need 1 button and a cooldown

[drifting cosmos]

really lol

thats kinda sad tbh

[misty holly]

dude whirlwinding through a map is fun as hell

[dawn ivy]

D3 is certainly fun for a few days where you just murder-chop a million demons and monsters in waves

[jaunty crystal]

I'm usually done with d3 in about 1.5 days each league lol

[strange python]

Any thoughts on the swap to Necro OR venthyr (Sin/outlaw) for both m+ and raid ? which is more worth?

[misty holly]

pins

necro slightly ahead on dungeon slice, ven ahead on single target

looks to me like everything but kyrian is close enough to just play what you like

[strange python]

gotcha

hmmm choices choices

[young pebble]

!opener

[misty holly]

maybe someone at blizz finally leveled up their rogue alt and saw how shit everything was

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[misty holly]

and Kyrian will get buffed in 9.1

[unkempt ginkgo]

so generally from the pins, doomblade is the move in 9.0.5 for raid and M+ right

[ornate lake]

You do have to calculate in that zoldyck has huge benefit for fights like progression due to execute dmg

[dim tide]

Doom looks like st and zoldyck m+

[limber lion]

MA/Zoldyck for M+

[unkempt ginkgo]

yea im still at SKS so zoldyck probably helpful in progging past that, though probably would stay sub for SKS

[velvet nacelle]

i need to get more haste

[fluid dust]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[velvet nacelle]

ugh i hate my min maxy brain

looking at that 200 dps gap between MA (which i'm using) and doomblade i'm like "I MUST MAKE DOOMBLADE"

and i refuse to swap from nf til i get my stupid valthir mount

every day for like a month and still no mount

but serrated bone spear looks like way more fun

sepsis seemed like more fun prelaunch but it's just meh played out now

[potent barn]

I mean you can just make an alt with nf cov and kill valfir 😄

[velvet nacelle]

and they're all close enough that i don't really care in terms of pure numbers

[haughty totem]

Guys, master Assassins talent works with NW weapons? Can we use this for run with full crit build + MA talent?

[velvet nacelle]

@potent barn it might come to that but it's more stubbornness than anything at this point

"BITCH YOU WILL GIVE ME MY GREEN FOX"

@haughty totem it does until tuesday

but make sure you misdirect to the tank

[potent barn]

@velvet nacelle I mean I'm in the same shoe but with the mission table mount. I still miss one.

[velvet nacelle]

i haven't even started doing the queens conservatory since i'm thinking that'll just be an alt thing

though, honestly, soulshape is like my favorite ability

(non dps)

we have a lot of movement already, i'm an engineer, but having ANOTHER one is so good

@haughty totem oh the TALENT, i'm not sure. just the legendary got a note about only affecting rogue skills/autoattack

[haughty totem]

Yeah, TALENT, if It works with weapons se can use this build for NW

[velvet nacelle]

yeah...

i honestly hate that necrotic wake feels balanced around using those weapons

and halls is balanced around the gargoyles

i mean it's doable without, but significantly harder

i feel like those things shouldn't be in M+ at all

[agile geode]

Bloodmallet is updated?

[balmy condor]

doubtful

yeh

well actually maybe not

they're running 3c004af, which was from yesterday

but their sims don't make any sense

tbh

[jolly garden]

So, for patch 9.0.5 will sin become the ST beast and start beating outlaw? Or am i reading the sims like a monkey

[balmy condor]

ye, outlaw still wins cleave and dungeons though

[subtle tundra]

on st, even before 9.0.5 assa is better ^^

[shadow helm]

blessard?

[jolly garden]

Well of course , but im a very big fan of sin and i just wanna be able to play high tier content as sin and not get benched XD

[velvet nacelle]

@subtle tundra eh, outlaw was competitive for ST with sub and assassination, but had more variance

@jolly garden yeah that's been a bit of a struggle this expansion so far... fortunately (or not) my guild is hitting the roster boss so i have a spot

plus i'm good at mechanics so i probably would always have a spot

my guild is... uh... not great at mechanics

i raided as sin tonight though and got a bunch of personal bests over sub, but it was just heroic because, again, roster boss

and i'm normally pretty mentally checked out in heroic

[jolly garden]

Another question, is there a verdict on the BiS covenant for sin? For the coming patch that is

[velvet nacelle]

man i'm looking at the necro soulbinds and they don't look "fun"

[balmy condor]

venthyr

[jolly garden]

POOOOGGGG

[velvet nacelle]

bone spike looks more fun personally, let me look at the venthyr binds

[jolly garden]

Tired of NF personally

[balmy condor]

I mean

does it matter if it's more fun to you personally

[velvet nacelle]

same @jolly garden

i mean, the ability looks more fun but the binds are meh, guess i'm hoping for the total package

[balmy condor]

lmao

good luck

[velvet nacelle]

right?

can't hurt to look

and, like i said earlier, i'm staying with NF til i get my goddamn green fox

which might mean 10.0

because i know my luck

[subtle tundra]

unfortunately 200 dps difference is pretty big between necro and vent -.- but i guess necro makes up for being better on any encounter where's another enemy

[velvet nacelle]

3-ish %, yeah

[warm drift]

flagallation is considered a rogue ability right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[jolly garden]

yes

Jinx

u owe me a coke

[warm drift]

ok so MA legy works with patch

[velvet nacelle]

should be, that wouldn't be a surprising bug to discover though 🙂

[balmy condor]

yes MA works with flag

[velvet nacelle]

i hate "when you stand still" abilities

i am the worst a/d spammer

the pins imply nadjia

[trim zinc]

Me 2
Ima always ad in gcd ;-;

[iron orchid]

In ST, Nadjia sims better

In Dungeon Slice or multi target, You'd go theotar

[gentle gyro]

as a dps, yeah. as a healer, if there isn't a mechanic that will OS me you better believe I won't be moving

i get 4% increased healing for standing still, and I will have it

[velvet nacelle]

haha

yeah it's definitely different on a melee character vs a ranged/healer

man, going venthyr to nadjia means giving up both well-placed steel and lethal poisons

that makes me slightly sad, i like those conduits

[trim zinc]

Ill miss wps and burrs but never used lethal

[velvet nacelle]

lethal is nice but not amazing

it's just nice to know that it's always working

right now i have niya set up for sub, dreamweaver set up for outlaw and korayn for assassination

outlaw just kinda fell into dreamweaver

i'll swap em around now and then, but that's just what it is at this moment

[turbid frigate]

Do u guys think sin is gonna be overall better for raid after the buffs or is it too early to tell?

i mean better then the other 2 specs

[velvet nacelle]

if i'm being honest, i dont' think rogue placement is gonna change a lot

[turbid frigate]

i mean in comparison to sub and outlaw

[trim zinc]

No burrs for sin?

[velvet nacelle]

i think assassination will end up being slightly better for pure ST than sub, but not significantly and not enough to bump us off the bench

[turbid frigate]

well for now i'm forced onto outlaw to not be on the bench lol

[velvet nacelle]

@trim zinc i would have but literally just played sin outside of the sanctum hall for the first time in a long time tonight and i liked the idea of a bigger opener

i normally raid as sub so i wanted to keep my sub soulbind ready in case assassination wasn't cutting it

[agile geode]

I think too

I trust whispyr sensei

[trim zinc]

My rl asked me to go outlaw but stoped when i started outdps bis classes in our raid

[velvet nacelle]

@trim zinc unfortunately for me our unholy dks and boomies are consistent and solid

[trim zinc]

Yaya im not like top dps

[velvet nacelle]

i'm pulling like 80% parses on sub and like 8th-10th a lot

[trim zinc]

But im like always between 6 and 4

[velvet nacelle]

under 50-60 parses for other classes

but i'm also going to deal with mechanics if other people are fucking up

like i've saved wipes multiple times by soaking eruptions or bottles that ranged just didn't move to

[trim zinc]

But im always on botton on sun king cuz i suck there lmao

[turbid frigate]

Well it's not like i hate outlaw tbh but i've been playing sin in bfa and it was awesome. Looking at the sims i'll have to keep up with sin and outlaw for m+ purposes anyway.

[potent barn]

sun king parses don't matter

[velvet nacelle]

yeah... sun king and council aren't really rogue fights heh

[gentle gyro]

council is okay-ish unless we talk mythic

[astral plover]

Council is perfect Sin fight ?

[gentle gyro]

then it gets pretty

[velvet nacelle]

@astral plover council is the perfect boomie fight haha

[potent barn]

council is good since you need single target dps only

[gentle gyro]

on mythic you need everything and rogue ain't good at target swapping

[potent barn]

Our boomie is dead last dmg to the boss at the last 50%

[gentle gyro]

then your boomie needs to take off his blindfold

[velvet nacelle]

your boomie is bad then

boomies are on another level on that fight

[untold nest]

I mean council M with korayn as outlaw aint doing baf

U can get decent value out of first strike from waiters

[vital depot]

Potentially a dumb question, is the sims in the pin using 9.05 changes ( for assassination)?

[velvet nacelle]

ugh i hate seeing windwalker that high on that fight

[trim zinc]

Yes

[balmy condor]

yes, all of them

[velvet nacelle]

only because i've done that fight once on my ww on heroic and i was absolute garbaaaaaage

[vital depot]

Merci my sneaky friends <3

[velvet nacelle]

but i also refuse to use dance of chi ji since i have terrible rng for procs

[trim zinc]

Blindside kisses u

[agile geode]

With these changes we'll spit on unholy and ww

[velvet nacelle]

@agile geode man i hope so but i'm in it for the long haul with rogues

[trim zinc]

Hmmm idk
Amz is op

[velvet nacelle]

i've been maining a rogue since vanilla, plenty of ups and downs

[iron orchid]

I'm pretty happy that my guild is starting council progression right when 9.0.5 goes live

gonna feel less useless

[velvet nacelle]

amz is ridiculous and it's on like a 2s cd

[gentle gyro]

rogue needs to dumpster other melee classes in the damage department to be brought to progression

[agile geode]

Same for me

[gentle gyro]

due to the lack of utility

[velvet nacelle]

@gentle gyro dude, we can shroud before pull

BEST. UTILITY. EVER.

[gentle gyro]

i mean we can blind one of the adds on Huntsman every 2 minutes

[agile geode]

Shroud distract prepull

[trim zinc]

clOAck OF ShadOwS

[velvet nacelle]

clock of shadows? that tells us what time we get off the bench?

[gentle gyro]

I can't hear you over the cooldown of my AMS

[velvet nacelle]

i stopped playing my dk at launch because blood felt bad and i refuse to go unholy because it's fotm

usually i main a rogue and play a dk as an alt

[gentle gyro]

blood is 10710

[alpine oasis]

does cloak do anything?

[gentle gyro]

no

you can soak traps on xymox

[trim zinc]

Traps on artificer lmao

[gentle gyro]

and orbs on destroyer

[velvet nacelle]

cloak is amazing for 2 fights

our huntsman strat is awful too, i get bop'd and soak all 3 sins with cloak up

[gentle gyro]

we just have hunters / mages / paladins soak them

[velvet nacelle]

(we also haven't downed huntsman yet)

[agile geode]

Avoid inerva adds

[velvet nacelle]

every time i'm supposed to get bop'd i don't

[agile geode]

Soak SLG quake

[velvet nacelle]

isn't quake physical?

i usually just feint it

[agile geode]

Didnt remember the spell name

[velvet nacelle]

but back to what someone said earlier, rogue's need to do a good bit more dps than other melee classes to offset the lack of utility

[agile geode]

The one who left the ground exploding

I think is magic

[velvet nacelle]

well there's seismic upheaval and eruption

i thought both were physical

[agile geode]

Going to check

[gentle gyro]

why bring a rogue to inerva when you can bring a dk or a warrior

which can immune every add cast

[agile geode]

Maybe im sayin bullshits

[velvet nacelle]

eruption is nature

seismic is phys

[agile geode]

Eruption

[trim zinc]

I tried to immune soak with cloack
P1 denathrius and rip
Hahahaha

[velvet nacelle]

i honestly thought they were both phys, learned something new today

[gentle gyro]

well, night hunter is physical

[velvet nacelle]

@trim zinc i don't like when people try to soak the night hunters with immunities. it's too chaotic to call out in voice and invariably someone will try to chase the line out

[trim zinc]

I learned that in the worst way

[velvet nacelle]

better to just do the mechanic imo

extend the line, people move and keep dps'ing

[gentle gyro]

na, immuning it is way easier

[trim zinc]

Less healing on boss tho
Idk

[velvet nacelle]

feels like a drop in the bucket, we don't usually lose people in p1 to healers gettin goverwhelmed

[gentle gyro]

basic rule : if someone immunes it they run towards the add, indicating no one can or should stand between them

[velvet nacelle]

if people die in p1 it's because they stood on the overlap or something shitty that you can't fix with healing

*for us

[gentle gyro]

it does sort of overlap with the 2nd blood price

[velvet nacelle]

i mean where the lines overlap

[gentle gyro]

• you get 3 on mythic

[trim zinc]

Doesnt matter anyway
Cuz the dmg shared is the dmg of the primary target taken
If u immune its 0 dmg anyway

[velvet nacelle]

my guild has no chance at CE so i'm not gonna worry about mythic denathrius til we get there

@trim zinc i didn't actually know that

so if they're gonna immune it they should just do the mechanic normally anyways?

ie. make the line longer

[gentle gyro]

wait really

are you sure of that

[velvet nacelle]

i'm looking it up now

[trim zinc]

Im pretty sure
I can be wrong tho

[velvet nacelle]

according to the complexity site it does 6k physical to all players hit and reduces the damage for the circle

[gentle gyro]

so if you immune it all people in the path take no damage?

[trim zinc]

Like thats not why u do that??
No healing to boss and no raid dmg?

[velvet nacelle]

@gentle gyro it sound slike the people in the line always take damage

[gentle gyro]

i just looked at the tooltip

the people in the path ALWAYS take damage

hence when you immune it

no one should stand within

[velvet nacelle]

https://www.wowdb.com/spells/327796-night-hunter

[trim zinc]

So the immune is just to the heal part?

[velvet nacelle]

and final damage part yeah

[gentle gyro]

it negates the healing and also saves 6k damage per target, assuming ~5-6 people stand in it usually to reduce the final hit

that's quite substantial

especially with add aoe + blood price

[velvet nacelle]

yeah

[gentle gyro]

there's a reason yu blow healing cds for it

[velvet nacelle]

i guess now that we have heroic on farm immuning it is fine

[trim zinc]

Yaya
Sorry tho
Always learning ^^

[velvet nacelle]

but i'd rather people learn the mechanics on progression

like maybe when we get to mythic we'll need to use the immunes, but for a long time we were struggling with even getting people to spread between the lines

and every once in a while having someone run off to africa to try to immune soak it was just confusing the situation more

[trim zinc]

Idk i like when certain classes can make some mechanics easier
Like hmm MC ads on jaina

[torpid spoke]

i'm torn between going venthyr or necro

[velvet nacelle]

progression, to me, should be about mastering a mechanic, not finding a way to cheese it, unless you can 100% repeat that cheese every time, regardless of group comp

@torpid spoke yeah, me too though after thinking about it for the past 30 minutes, i'm leaning venthyr just for the output

[torpid spoke]

outlaw is godlike with necro too

so if I wanna go back I can

[velvet nacelle]

2 weeks to change back is BRUTAL though

[torpid spoke]

no i mean like spec wise

[velvet nacelle]

oh, i gotcha

[torpid spoke]

I can switch back and forth from outlaw to sin

necro might be BIS for outlaw

[velvet nacelle]

it's "only" a 3% dps difference for sin

[trim zinc]

I chamged to venthyr today yesterday/today
And im like renown 20
And for now its shit hahaha
But its gonna be huge next week

[velvet nacelle]

my stat spread is terrible for assassination right now

[torpid spoke]

what is it

[velvet nacelle]

i'm all vers/crit

[torpid spoke]

vers is okay

[velvet nacelle]

for pvp

[gentle gyro]

secondaries are less important than you think

[velvet nacelle]

but i haven't done arenas in like a month

[torpid spoke]

but most fights in the current tier are like

not ST anyways

[trim zinc]

True

[velvet nacelle]

@gentle gyro you aren't wrong

i will say that i liked how much better vendetta lined up on sludge than shadowblades did

even with stiletto staccato

[trim zinc]

I do vendetta on pull 2nd and 4th pillar

[velvet nacelle]

though i didn't have a great sludge fight

yeah i should have done that

i held for first and third and that made the timing a little awkward for getting a third in

i've always liked assassination so i was just happy to be playing it today, i was gonna do it today even if it wasn't getting buffed next week

[trim zinc]

But like my vendetta is up little before 4th
I gotta hold it like 10s

[turbid frigate]

Is doomblade even better thatn MA on ST?

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/YJLzsD2.png
I just want to run dungeons man

[balmy condor]

have you tried the pins

[trim zinc]

Yes

[cold rampart]

doomblade gloves or shoulders?

[autumn shoal]

Hello there, i don't find information on pins so i ask here. For Venthyr : what soulbind do we go ? and do we wait to use flag with vendetta ? or we use flag on cd, ty in advance

[balmy condor]

gloves

[turbid frigate]

i did but just making sure sorry

[balmy condor]

nadjia, flag with vendetta if you're not going to miss a cast

[misty holly]

is that only for people who have a hope of clearing mythic SLG?

[velvet nacelle]

@gentle gyro i got rejected from a 5 earlier today

[autumn shoal]

@balmy condor thanks!

[velvet nacelle]

i was gonna do a dungeon for warm up before raid

[gentle gyro]

wouldn't it be better to use flag ahead of vendetta

[balmy condor]

shoulders and gloves are indentical stats

so it really doesn't matter

[gentle gyro]

and use the ramped up haste for the vendetta window?

[velvet nacelle]

1k IO and 218 and i got rejected for a 5

[balmy condor]

no, because flag does damage

[gentle gyro]

aight

[trim zinc]

So its bad like flag before and vendetta only on hasye buff

[balmy condor]

it's actually crazy how much damage flag does with ls

like

it's fucking insane

look at that shit

what is that

[gentle gyro]

i mean I haven't switched yet because I'm caught in the sunken cost fallcy

[autumn shoal]

@balmy condor we use dauntless duelist on nadjia ? or we use double damage conduits

[balmy condor]

pressing flag is almost 5x the damage of an envenom

[balmy condor]

dauntless

[autumn shoal]

ty

[strange python]

Yo the sims don't account for the Zoldyck lego right?

[balmy condor]

what? of course they do

[velvet nacelle]

@gentle gyro i'm lucky my raid isn't until fridays so i'm gonna wait til tuesday to swap

in case there's any last minute nerfs

i don't expect there to be

[gentle gyro]

i really just don't like the prospect of leveling followers again and shit

[cold rampart]

haste + vers?

[vital haven]

@balmy condor hi

[balmy condor]

sure

[void gazelle]

i expect nerf after everyone did change covenant

[velvet nacelle]

@gentle gyro my nf companions are only 40, i've been lazy about the table

[balmy condor]

hi baby

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/dkzry6j.png

mission table soul ash enables things

[balmy condor]

imagine only crafting a rank 3

what a fool

a baffoon

[gentle gyro]

i have the gold

[velvet nacelle]

you don't bring stored anima to the new covenant do you?

[gentle gyro]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

nope

[velvet nacelle]

i'm only gonna have 2500 soul ash this week

[balmy condor]

not unless you buy a shit ton of cosmetics and then sell it after swapping

[gentle gyro]

that's the plan

[void gazelle]

So doomblade on hands? thats the way?

[trim zinc]

I did a r2;-;

[gentle gyro]

unless you kill SLG mythic..probably

wait wrong way

[balmy condor]

yes

[gentle gyro]

yes it is, but it only matters if you kill SLG mythic

[balmy condor]

it actually doesn't matter what you craft doomblade on

so just craft hands

and then you're done

[velvet nacelle]

pretty sure they're the same stats

[gentle gyro]

they are

[balmy condor]

they are

[gentle gyro]

but SLG drops 233 shoulders

[void gazelle]

im so scared to change covenant

[shadow helm]

the moment i finally switch

[trim zinc]

I have a 226 gloves and a 207 shoulders
So i did on shoulders lmao

[shadow helm]

blizzard slaps with the hotfix to lashing scars

BIG SAD

[sleek sparrow]

Just do it

[velvet nacelle]

@trim zinc yeah that's the way to do it

[sleek sparrow]

No regrets

[velvet nacelle]

NO FEAR IN THIS DOJO

[strange python]

what about zoldyck? Legs or feet?

[shadow helm]

no bueno blizzard

[void gazelle]

exactly, this my nightmare

[gentle gyro]

i mean you can always swap back to the faeries

you keep everything you have

[shadow helm]

no ty

[velvet nacelle]

just accept this as an inevitability

[shadow helm]

i'll go back to necro instead

[trim zinc]

Just a koke right??
Hahaha

[velvet nacelle]

and swapping is just keeping things fresh

[void gazelle]

I have already changed from venthyr to night fae at renown 15ish

[reef axle]

I went with haste+vers but you can do haste+crit too if you want to.

[sleek sparrow]

Pretty sure going back to a covenant takes longer, so if you're swapping back to venth you should start now right

[shadow helm]

im already waiting for draven's approval

ungrateful fuck beating sire x100000 times

[reef axle]

first time switching for me, so dont think theres any cd

[gentle gyro]

going back to a previous covenant requires 2 resets

so best to do it on a tuesday / monday

switching to a completely new one just requires you to confirm it about ~6 times

[manic quartz]

where could one find the new flagellation changes?

[gentle gyro]

actually not sure, is it pinned?

[kind kiln]

Its not

[viral meadow]

wowhead

somewhere

[gentle gyro]

basically, only one cast instead of 2 casts

and you get haste for every cp spent after the cast

haste lingers for 20s

[simple flower]

is venthyr going to suck again before it was even good?

[gentle gyro]

it's really cool

[manic quartz]

im just thinking that i might play different covenants on different raid tiers

[viral meadow]

what? venthyr is bis on wednesday

[simple flower]

ok cool i thought when he said changes to flagellation they were nerfing the new one

[viral meadow]

nah

it's looking strong. especially paired with the lashing scars for ST

[balmy condor]

venthyr is bis even without the conduit btw

[shadow helm]

doubt they'll hotfix nerf it tho

just like how mages conduit OP

[viral meadow]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/rogue-class-changes-shadowlands-patch-9-0-5

[simple flower]

idk they seem to not like rogue

[shadow helm]

or even wild spirits

[sleek sparrow]

I mean

They are trying super hard to make rogues stop crying

So I wouldn't say they don't like them

They just neglected us for a bit

[gentle gyro]

ok so how does this anima thing work, i just buy stuff as close to cap as possible and then just re-sell it?

[sleek sparrow]

Rogue is one of the love child specs usually, except sub

[manic quartz]

i'd love to try other covenants but im 100% gonna miss soulshape

[viral meadow]

oh my god. door of shadows sucks so much compared to the utility of soulshape

please just make it instant cast

or cast while moving

[manic quartz]

i love soulshape in occasional BG's aswell, so good

[fickle agate]

I have spear and orb equipped on me,and it happend for spear to dissapear after using the orb,anyone knows why?

in NW I mean

[manic quartz]

if i change to Venthyr, i have to grind renown levels for that covenant right? and if i then decide to change back to NF do i have the renown i used to have or do i start from 1?

[viral meadow]

with flag. the flag target takes damage on combo points spent. does that have a range? do I need to be attacking that target?

[opaque sparrow]

Would you put zoldycks on the pants?

[gentle gyro]

yep

greater stat allocation than boots

man no joke what annoys me most is leveling up followers again. I couldn't care less about the buildings, not using them all that much anyways

but the table is such a great source for free stuff

[strange python]

You'd have to grind out the renown levels but its not that bad if you play all day you can grind 20 levels, and if you change back it saves ALL your progress I believe.

[manic quartz]

maybe i should honestly level another rogue 🤔 and make it different covenant, sounds much less hassle than changing them 😄

[gentle gyro]

covenants are the worst idea they had, and I mean it

nothing has ever been such a barrier

[jagged elk]

tbh, changing covenant is so easy

[indigo mulch]

No the idea behind covenant is great.

[gentle gyro]

it isn't though

[indigo mulch]

But like, all the timegates and all the grinding behind covenants is just meh

[gentle gyro]

you lose so much and the longer you play any given covenant the more you lose

[jagged elk]

think about artifact weapon system or sth
it was barely impossible to reroll

[manic quartz]

i wanted to test out other covenants and i knew that blizz gonna change them eventually, but leveling up the companions and the buildings and all that shit makes me not want to do it since i invested time and anima and other shit on the NF covenant things

[gentle gyro]

i mean the covenant system itself is fine, the power tied to it is not

[indigo mulch]

^

[gentle gyro]

wat. you could easily reroll in legion

[jagged elk]

i rolled from kyrian to fae last week. did all m0 and some stuff
took me 3-4 days

[gentle gyro]

i never understood people who said that

yeah gz means you care next to not at all about anything else except renown

but that is like 5% of the entire thing

[indigo mulch]

Meaningful choice!

[sullen pagoda]

Easy reroll in legion nice yok 10/10

Maybe 7.3 or whatever it was last patch

[indigo mulch]

Prob going to be super easy to re-roll covenant in 9.3 aswell ;p

Blizzard had enough of player tears stored up.

[gentle gyro]

you lose (or at least lose access to) all the anima spent on upgrades, you lose all but two followers + have to reacquire them + have to level them up + you have to replay the campaign + you have to re-acquire the conduit + level it up

[manic quartz]

maybe im different kind of player, but i like doing mission table things, i like doing queens consevatory things and all the things tied to the covenant but i dont think i want to level up the buildings and followers again

[shadow helm]

should u line thrillseeker proc to get big DAM?

GIGA DAM

[gentle gyro]

yes you could, anyone who says otherwise played 30 mins a day max

[manic quartz]

But i guess i could try new covenant and if i dont like it i can always change back 🤔

[sullen pagoda]

@gentle gyro followers are irrelevant for player power and even conduit levels are extremely low power wise

meanwhile swap specs

not even classes

on legion

oh no bis lego sorry mate you just 15% behind everyone else not to mention AP grind

[gentle gyro]

hoh boy you lose 0.3% damage because you are beind a bit of AP

man

[sullen pagoda]

0.3 nice one

[gentle gyro]

you realize AP was capped, yes?

[sullen pagoda]

maybe at very end when u decided to dump AP in other specs cuz ur thing is high anyway in main one

[cold rampart]

should we change to venthyr now or wait till reset

[sullen pagoda]

you realize im talking start / mid tier

[gentle gyro]

uhm, no. and i give you the legendary thing, but then i could also say you couldn't even decide what to main

[sullen pagoda]

who cares bout oh tier ended lets meme around with random shit

[gentle gyro]

because if you didn't get X legendary, then yo were bheind anyways

and you couldn't farm for it

signed, someone who got their BiS as the last possible drop

[sullen pagoda]

its not about deciding what to main its about blizzard buffing and nerfing specs in hc week

imagine uldir situation in legion

[gentle gyro]

i think we can just both agree that borrowed power systems suck

[sullen pagoda]

sub best spec going in, you get legendary your artifact weapon is leveled up and then they nerf the shit out of it with like 4 nerfs in a row

yep they do but blizz is incapable of making actual specs without it so they happen every expansion lately

[gentle gyro]

we had functional specs at the end of legion

bake in the traits from the artifact weapons intot eh specs

there

done

[sleek otter]

honestly they should have just left sub alone

have no idea what their fcking vendetta was

[gentle gyro]

na man if you cheese one fight you get the axe

[sleek otter]

literal pure dps class has dps but blizzards like nah

[sullen pagoda]

yep people were calling for it and then you had people that said "stop whining its gonna be fine azerite powers will be better than just passive stats 99% of the time"

oh how wrong they were

[gentle gyro]

now I'm sitting here, wanting to swap because it's better but also not wanting to swap because FUCK doing the campaign and followers again

[reef axle]

Don’t forget all that anima you need to re farm

[sleek otter]

oh Im gonna swap cuz I wanna be a vampire and not a fcking fairy

[celest ruin]

why cant the covenants just work together i mean isnt that what next patch is all about

[reef axle]

As it’s kinda annoying to farm and upgrade to begin with

[sleek otter]

ull get valor through doing campaign quests 2

[fierce tulip]

is the patch this tuesday?

[sleek otter]

yews

confirmed on the 9th

[manic quartz]

if im changing covenants, should i do it asap or specific day?

[sand dirge]

Did u sim your character with your current and the new covenant? I simmed mine (night fae) and it was "only" a 70dps increase on patchwork. I guess its even a lower increase on light movement for example...

[sleek otter]

I would recommend waiting until release, flying comes out out on Tues and its related to covs

prov cov 40

[manic quartz]

Ah 😒

[sleek otter]

prob*

[strange python]

what? flying next reset??

[sleek otter]

I believe so yes

[sinful cradle]

flying comes out 9.1

[sleek otter]

oh den Im dum

[strange python]

yeah 9.1

[sleek otter]

So prob would still wait tho cuz u can stack more valor

[manic quartz]

Welp, i guess im going to be vampire atleast the next 2 weeks

[sleek otter]

until they nerf the shit out of it

[manic quartz]

i dont really need valor to anything

i cant get anything with valor i think except 1 trinket

[gentle gyro]

i can get fucking weapons

running around with 197 weapons at ilvl 215

is a crime

[sleek otter]

Í can see them nerfing it day 3 because "rogue op"

[manic quartz]

226/223 atm, also geared from pvp coz its so much fucking easier to get 220 items than from pve

[sleek otter]

theyve done it before, I can see it being done again

[gentle gyro]

thing is I suck at pvp

and I'm not the one for boosts

[manic quartz]

i literally afked my way to 1800

guarding bases

its also very very boring

i once sitted in AB-Mines with other rogue the whole match since neither wanted to take the flag 😄

[sleek otter]

oh ur talking about rbg

[manic quartz]

yes

[sleek otter]

yea I prefer 2s and 3s, harder

[gentle gyro]

does doomblade change anything for me priority-wise?

[manic quartz]

yeah, cant find a Mage anywhere so 2's is no go for me

[sleek otter]

probably not @gentle gyro

I wonder how good mastery stacking necrolord assa would be in pvp

[gentle gyro]

my doomblade sims 25 dps higher than zoldyck's

[manic quartz]

im currently stacked in Haste/Vers/Crit gear, is it any good for Assa?

[balmy condor]

there's some ttd stuff, but aside from that, no

[balmy condor]

that's what you want

[north basin]

btw venthyr more suitable for rogue. brutal vampires vs rainbow fairies

[gentle gyro]

rogue has no thematically fitting covenant

which is a good thing imo

[north basin]

we strike from the shadows! like vampires! i saw from movies

[gentle gyro]

i would HATE to play a covenant that doesn't fit the theme of my class

vampire paladin says hello

[lapis warren]

Don't think of it as vampire paladin, rather as a paladin that wants justice and punishment delivered

make your enemy repent

[gentle gyro]

they are literally vampires

[lapis warren]

Hey at least they don't sparkle

[gentle gyro]

meanwhile we have kyrian that adhere to virtues such as purity or courage

[lapis warren]

Bunch of blue smurfs who can't look at reason

[gentle gyro]

that's like playing necrolord druid, it just doesn't fit

[lapis warren]

Nature is life and death

With enough imagination and using some logic in some way you can explain it away

[gentle gyro]

if you think necrolord is thematically as fitting for druids as night fae

[lapis warren]

But if it's not your cup of tea it's not

[gentle gyro]

then I don't know how to help

you can make ANYTHING work, doesn't mean it's the same

[lapis warren]

Well i'm not saying it's the same

It's diffrent beliefs

It's what kind of person you are and what your beliefs were, how you lived as to what covenant you'd be put into

If your druids favored strength, using naturelike spells maybe like bugs that eat rotting flesh. Used nature to rot your decay your enemies, bringing balance between life and death of nature it's a cycle

For one to live something must die

yes it's not the same it's diffrent

[sleek otter]

I mean vampire rogues are just so damn cool

[lapis warren]

That is the point

[gentle gyro]

now tell me for what percentage of people this logic applies

[lapis warren]

I can't influence peoples imagination, it's their own

[gentle gyro]

because by that i would measure whether something fits themtically

[lapis warren]

I'm just saying it can work just fine

[gentle gyro]

nice evasion there

[lapis warren]

I am a rogue i got evasion yes

[gentle gyro]

i asked for you opinion, your guess

because it is a minuscule number

[lapis warren]

But that miniscule number can still enjoy it

[sleek otter]

I mean Draka is literally a rogue

and necros are supposed to be war driven

[lapis warren]

Don't look at things from the big level "OH VAMPIRES OH UNDEAD"

[gentle gyro]

sure, but just because they do doesn't mean it is a thematic fit

[lapis warren]

The themes are a bit deeper that that if you look into it

[misty holly]

Doomblade gonna be huge for keeping high on meters during progression.

When you are wiping on a boss at 40% all night trying to get it down

zod sucks

[sleek otter]

I mean I think Venthyr is a good fit because of the whole sinstone thing, rogues have committed lots of sins with killing etc

[gentle gyro]

i could not care less about damage during progression, because outside of sludge or inerva no boss requires that steep of a dps check

or said differently, I wouldn't equip a legendary and train a fight with it just to swap them out later

[sleek otter]

I already have doom crafted

for pvp

so Im just happy I get to use it more

[misty holly]

Bought the leather shoulders today and have 8k ash saved up.

waiting till tuesday just in case there is a bug

or a change

[velvet nacelle]

@sleek otter doom for pvp?

i guess that makes sense

i'm too stuck on MA thinking

[limber lion]

Pretty good, not the best for rogue. Sim it

[velvet nacelle]

ugh all this thinking is making me wanna swap covenants right now

but it's 4am

heh

[strange python]

same

[velvet nacelle]

should have done it before heroic farm raid last night

pick up some of that delicious catchup reknown

it doesn't drop as often as i expected it to on alts

[strange python]

thinking venthyr is the play I don't want to press SbS on a bunch of targets + bleeds

[velvet nacelle]

kinda thought doing heroic would make it drop off every boss

@strange python the soulbinds for necro kinda seal it for me, they seem very meh

and i'm tired of NF for now

i. just. want. my. mount

[gentle gyro]

and I want my followers

leveling them to 45+ again

[velvet nacelle]

stupid goddamn valfir and his stupid goddamn 1% drop rate

[strange python]

they aren't any changes any necro soulbinds is there?

[velvet nacelle]

@strange python not that i'm aware of, i just don't like them personally

[limber lion]

Well I swapped covenants yesterday and I got to 20 renown in 5ish hours. So, it's pretty easy

[gentle gyro]

🌊 🐴

[limber lion]

I was already heroic locked so if I had that open as well I would have cleared HC and gotten 30+ renown

[velvet nacelle]

@limber lion yeah it's not bad just annoying

and my alts all are tanks so queues are instant for them

[limber lion]

You literally have to clear heroic, normal and LFR and you will be renown capped.

[strange python]

I don't like them either but the transmog is cool

[gentle gyro]

i think i'll just go play some NWN instead..

[velvet nacelle]

how is NWN now?

[limber lion]

It is not that bad.

[velvet nacelle]

i had a control wizard early when they were broken

[radiant fossil]

Thats where you are wrong. With that mentality if 20 people doesnt care about optimisation then you will have problem progressing. Unless you and your guild are god gamer, but i doubt that.

[velvet nacelle]

he's not saying tank dps

he's saying that dps is the least of your concerns when you're learning a fight

learning mechanics, learning to stay alive, learning dps windows are all far more important than topping meters or theoretical parse %s before you've killed the boss

[radiant fossil]

Why not use the best leg or legendary from the start ?

Its dumb to progress a boss or a raid without the best stuff if you can have it.

[velvet nacelle]

i think the point he's making is that if zoldycks is better, he's not gonna swap OFF of it just because it'll make him look better before they're getting the boss into execute range

he's gonna use the best legendary for the fight, not for the first 25% or whatever

[obsidian aurora]

Will assassination be better than sub in 9.0.5? Would love your opinions

[slender berry]

depends on the fight @obsidian aurora

[velvet nacelle]

i don't think we're getting anything amazing to any specs that's gonna change the dynamics

sub will probably be better in some situations, assassination in others

[obsidian aurora]

@slender berry sub still single target?

Really wish sub gets a buff somehow, especially for m+

[slender berry]

like i said depends , shriekwing for example assa will be "better" sludgefist , council sub might be better

sim dps assa is ahead

[velvet nacelle]

sub is fine in m+

depending how you pull

[wise gull]

Basically, assa is generally better but sub is better where timed burst is important?

[slender berry]

depends on the timing for the burst , if you need it every 2 mins assa is better

[velvet nacelle]

that's heroic artificer

[slender berry]

its really dynamic

[wise gull]

So, sun king/sludge/etc

[velvet nacelle]

i imagine it'll be pretty similar after tuesday

[slender berry]

just play what you like

[velvet nacelle]

maybe swap assassination and sub but it's close enough that you can honestly just play what you like

[wise gull]

Isn’t it a 5% increase?

[willow prairie]

What stats should i go for sin? Checked pins, iv and giving different stat prio

[slender berry]

[north basin]

btw what about locks boomkins and sp? do we crush em with our fancy new spec?

ST

[slender berry]

no lul

[stoic needle]

After a few weeks when people have 235 doomblades and good sin sets I fully expect sin to be ahead of the other 3 specs on single target fights

[velvet nacelle]

@stoic needle probably but not by a TON

[stoic needle]

Eh you will be surprised

The sim dps gap is already notable, and sin always has lower variance which will make it perform better overall when it sims ahead of the other specs

[velvet nacelle]

like i said, i feel like on a pure ST fight like artificer all the rogues are still gonna be clustered and solidly middle of the pack

[simple wadi]

It’s also important to remember what’s happening to WW monk - rogue is about to be in a pretty good melee spot imo

[stoic needle]

Sin Rogue is 2nd highest simming melee dps now

So it's going to be the best melee by far because no one plays feral and it's easy to reach sim potential in fights as sin

[limber lion]

Assa is already better than sub.

And with 9.0.5 it will be a lot better.

[velvet nacelle]

don't get me wrong, i'm probably gonna go assassination just for the change of pace, like i already decided that last week before i was up on the changes

[limber lion]

Assa will be the best ST spec out of all 3 rogues.

[stoic needle]

Sin isn't punished by mechanics and the rotation is easy. There isn't much to optimize

[velvet nacelle]

rogue main since vanilla, gonna take an ion "we don't want people playing this class anymore" statement for me to even consider swapping

[stoic needle]

You can hit buttons randomly 10% of the time and still do well as sin

That means it will always perform really well in practice

[limber lion]

Yeah and assa has very little variance in dps.

Compared to Outlaw who has a lot.

[tender fjord]

I hit buttons just randomly and I always do the same and decent

[velvet nacelle]

yeah, outlaw is incredibly frustrating in that way

[stoic needle]

Look at the floor of dps in that screenshot you posted

Hmm well that fight isn't the best indicator of it

But if you look at it for raidwide sin is the highest floor

[north basin]

i was very surprised how close ihve got to my sim in real hc fights while practicing.

[tender fjord]

Refresh dots in pandemic, keep cds on cd, don’t overcap energy

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/f1fadc2d703fdfeaa5c2c88d7755852b

[stoic needle]

lmao frost

And outlaw

[tender fjord]

Is there anything that I’m missing tbh?

[stoic needle]

Everything beyond that is minimal gains at best

[clever niche]

Don't waste combo points

[tardy prawn]

how are the covenants looking for 9.0.5? just getting a character levelled on alliance and looking to see if anything is drastically changing

[stoic needle]

Oh yeah and overcapping

[clever niche]

Envenom uptime can be somewhat relevant too

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/fd2fa7549092b8c537bd79703f831b45
Imagine doing almost as much damage as the tank

As a dps

[velvet nacelle]

ouch

[stoic needle]

This is just sim variance, it isn't even taking into account how well a spec's cooldowns match with fights in the actual raid too

Warlock apl is notoriously sus

[limber lion]

Yep

[stoic needle]

And prot paladins kinda pump for some reason?

[limber lion]

Ashen Hallow

Also why Holy Paladin's pump on mythic Sire

[clever niche]

Also seraphim stat boost makes them hit super hard

[stoic needle]

I can't wait to have a covenant ability that actually does damage

[sand dirge]

some light movement ptr sims for my character 🤔

[strange python]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[clever niche]

Lashing scars seems to be very very good

In the pins iirc

[stoic needle]

Flagellation doing 30k damage as outlaw with dreadblades

You love to see it

[cunning locust]

is it worth to swap to venthyr from kyrian right now to get some renown before patch

[stoic needle]

Sure

I'm not swapping yet because I need 6 more dungeons for ksm and I want to get as many done this week as I can

And that ain't happening as venthyr with current flag

Plus I have some venthyr renown already

[cunning locust]

and should i decline all my current calling (3x revendreth btw) or its gonna happen anyways and i'll recieve them from bloody boyz?

[stoic needle]

I'm not exactly sure if you get new callings after switching but I'd just save them to be sure

[limber lion]

You get new callings

[faint harness]

Flag is heavily punished by downtime

[limber lion]

Too bad the Outlaw boys are set on Necro/Kyr/NF

[faint harness]

If you cant spend energy for all of those 24 seconds its overcap hell

So it takes assassinations strength in downtime dps and makes it kinda bad tbh

[limber lion]

Sim doesn't plan for the downtime so it makes it look worse than it is.

You can very well plan 5s ahead

And not get as punished

[faint harness]

Yep you can

But its sometimes hard to even keep 10 seconds on a boss

24 forced seconds glued to your target is not always ideal

Not to mention thrill seeker does the same thing

[limber lion]

That's true

[vestal wharf]

When i sim my character in raidbots, Deadly Poison should basically be neck in neck with my melee damage, but in reality its way less than my melee hits. Anyone got any clues as to why?

[iron orchid]

We try SD 19 in like 2 hours, then whatever comes out of it,

I go necro

fkn fly mount

[stoic needle]

Necro

Smh dei you should be a vamp boy

[slender urchin]

How do we ptr sim using raid bots

[stoic needle]

Raidbots adds deadly and instant poison together

[iron orchid]

don't like the randomness of soulbinds and the way you have to stick to optimizing your flag window to be fine. My M+ team could also use a necrolord other than our rsham. I feel like SBS will be funnier to play around with

[vestal wharf]

So its broken, then?

As we dont even have deadly poison.

[stoic needle]

Yes we do

Look at your details and add up the instant and dot damage of your poisons

[vestal wharf]

Ahl I meant instant

[stoic needle]

We do have instant

[vestal wharf]

Aaaah ok, thanks.

[stoic needle]

It's the damage that happens when you get a poison proc on something that already is poisoned

[vestal wharf]

Yep yep. Now it makes sense. Thanks.

[stoic needle]

That's fair. I wish the soulbinds were less of a clown fiesta too lol. Id be lying if I said necro wasn't tempting as hell especially considering how much I like to do keys. I might try it out eventually since swapping really isn't that hard

I think I'm going to just walk around with the quests to go back to necro completed so I can switch at any time

[near lark]

Quick question, what's looking to be our bis lego post patch atm? I've not looked into it very much, I've already got execute at 225, so looking to decide if I should make it 235, or make a new one

[stoic needle]

You should make it 235 and make doomblade

[near lark]

Perfect, and doomblades situations over execute?

[wary pawn]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[wary pawn]

So MA ring with haste vers is good for sin too?

[limber lion]

I did a +20 Spires yesterday and holy moly it was rough. Just the manifestation of pride was almost always killing at least one of us lmao

Didn't time it.

[gentle gyro]

Spires is the worst dungeon this week

you have to pay attention to you positioning constantly and half the trash mobs in there are cancer

and the very last mob in the dungeon is harder than some tyrannical bosses

it's quite telling you use bl + a spear for a single mob and people still die

oh you got grazed by this barely visible black smoke that has a very...questionable and ambiguous hitbox?

down you go

[limber lion]

Yeah it's awful especially if the tank doesn't move to mob well.

We wiped on the last mob because our tank used his kyrian spear right as the mob threw his spear

[gentle gyro]

also god help you if you get more than 2 spears

[limber lion]

So the mob was stunned on top of the black fog

Lmao

We had lust, pride and kyrian spear and still wiped. FeelsBadMan But that was due to tank error honestly. Xd

[gentle gyro]

thing is that mob isn't even hard, technically. it's just trash tier visuals

[limber lion]

We had also really bad communication with interrupts so we missed some really important interrupts on previous packs

[limber lion]

Yeah big agree

[viral sand]

so is it looking like venth>fea>necro>kyrian come tues?

[gentle gyro]

imagine if you could discern from the spear in which directions the smoke emits, and the smoke itself to be more visually clear

would be so much easier

[limber lion]

ST:
Venth - Fae - Necro - Kyrian

Cleave/AoE:
Necro - Venth - Fae - Kyrian

[gentle gyro]

if difficulty comes from lack of information it's just poorly designed

[limber lion]

Yeah not sure why it's so awful.

[gentle gyro]

same goes for the damn spear guys

oh 3 target the same person? bad luck I guess

xD

[limber lion]

Yeah the hurls are awful

[gentle gyro]

they even target you in stealth

it's nuts

[balmy condor]

@limber lion 235 doomblade with ep ns mfd next week

[limber lion]

We had our monk die instantly because unlucky

[gentle gyro]

just play better 4Head

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

Although I’m not sure if ns would be the play anymore with doomblade

[limber lion]

I'll only have 225 Doomblade

[balmy condor]

Probably would want ma

[subtle kiln]

remember when you told me to make Zoldyck over DB.

[balmy condor]

Enven mfd enven mut enven

[gentle gyro]

actually, you can shroud them with rogue or sneak past them with mind soothe and then pull them behind the pillar

[near lark]

wait we want doomblade is it?

[subtle kiln]

ofc

[limber lion]

Yeah that's true. But imagine if you crit with the NS Envenom

[balmy condor]

Remember when envenom pandemic’d and doomblade was 5 dps better and unbuffed and also bugged?

[gentle gyro]

what's ns

[near lark]

So doomblade over execute?

[balmy condor]

Nightstalker

[surreal hawk]

is there a specific reason we are starting to use DS? Is it just because of the doomblade envenom buff ?

[gentle gyro]

ah

[balmy condor]

No, sire p3 for example you’d go zold

[near lark]

Ah but if execute isn't prio doomblade?

[gentle gyro]

if you require execute, go zoldyck. if you just try to beat an overall dps race, go doomblade

[balmy condor]

The dot got buffed, and envenom doesn’t pandemic anymore for some reason, which hurt zoldyck

[subtle kiln]

it’s all good. i did DB for pvp gearing. now just trying to sort out covenant for both assa and breadblades

[surreal hawk]

oof

[balmy condor]

I really dislike how riddled we are with bugs

[near lark]

alright crafting doomblade then

instead fo 235 execute

[subtle kiln]

could be WW and fall to your death when they get fixed

[sick scarab]

i am lost in translation LOL 🙂