assassination

[spice spire]

Stream when?

[iron orchid]

I don't think I'll stream the raiding part, so probably 5 hours from now

[lean fossil]

so for venth why is deeper better than vigor? because of the haste buff we get from them?

[spice spire]

I’d assume so.

[lean fossil]

at work so cant look stuff up :(

[iron orchid]

Yeah, and due to the fact that you can use more cps at once

during the flag window

It will still depend on your covenant, 332 is bis for venthyr, but is a marginal gain for necro and kyr, and a loss for NF

[stoic needle]

I'm stiff just thinking about deeper strat doomblade envs

[vast pond]

is there an easy way to sim different covs?

[wide ridge]

deeper with 75% haste late 8.3

[iron orchid]

Necrolord is too tempting, I really wanna try it

But I ain't sure about Necrolord in M+ yet

[strange python]

do you guys think EP will edge out blindside eventually?

[loud niche]

okay

[iron orchid]

at some point in the expac, probably

but not yet

[stoic needle]

That point is now actually

Some people already have it simming better

[loud niche]

what's our cov look like?

[stoic needle]

Anything but kyrian

[loud niche]

i mean who we pickin on venth

[worn path]

A bunch of vampires sipping wine

[strange python]

i thought maybe with cttc it would push it a little more

[stoic needle]

[loud niche]

but better question, is raidbots set up for this now? or nah?

[iron orchid]

Well, it has always been close, but never a gain for me, guess it depends on stats and new covs

[stoic needle]

If you use advanced sim and ptr=1 yes

[loud niche]

sick

[iron orchid]

theotar in aoe/cleave situations, probably Nadjia in pure ST

But it is hard to put numbers on the vers buff theotar grants to allies

[rigid tartan]

btw why do we not use Ambush when Sepsis procs and instead do Mutilate. Is it because of CP gain being higher value then the higher Ambush dmg compared to Mutilate?

[stoic needle]

Yep

[iron orchid]

Exactly, and you can also apply poisons two times with mutilate, but only one with ambush

[tender folio]

Is 20% haste solid since I'll be rerolling from Sub to Assa ?

[trim zinc]

Cuz mutilate have more poison procs
More cp
And have a chance to proc blindside

[loud niche]

is there a way to get a higher lashing scars than 200?

[wide ridge]

H denathrius will drop 213 on reset

[tender folio]

Upgrade from Venari

[loud niche]

oh shit

nice

[iron orchid]

It's really great, but you also have to get ilvl and other stats too, don't just focus on getting haste, your best item lvl would almost always be better

[tender folio]

So adjustment is needed then , lemme see

[bitter drift]

As an outlaw rogue I’m very excited to see the Sin buffs. Pvp and off spec for Sire and Sludge for me

[brittle pawn]

thing i will miss most is transport network teleport to oribos

[tender folio]

What do you mean Shy ?

[brittle pawn]

r3 transport network gives a portal to oribos in covenant hall

gonna take a long time to grind the anima for that in a new one

[tender folio]

Oh yeah :S

[split veldt]

damn, so right after getting zold to rank 3 i gotta make doomblade now?

[sudden hound]

if you have a bunch of anima saved up you can buy stuff from the renown vendor and the sell it back when you swap to a new cov

[brittle pawn]

only have 5k

i havent done wq in forever so my only source is raids

[prime skiff]

so on 9.0.5 venthyr will be best covenant for single target?

[celest rover]

Lol and I just switched from kyrian to fae last week..

[split veldt]

so we gotta switch to veny and doomblade?

[rigid tartan]

no problem its no difference if you swap again or if you just swap this week from first covenant

[tired hill]

it's super easy to switch if you start this week

[celest rover]

Will make me useful in HoA at least

[gusty mirage]

You’re useful everywhere

[split veldt]

lashing scars is a veny conduit?

[gusty mirage]

Yea

[wraith badge]

Ight bois. all or nothing, Got that vamp suck as frens now

[balmy dome]

I'm sure this has been asked, but will Sin become the go to ST spec for 9.0.5?

[split veldt]

fml, guess im switching to veny today

[tired hill]

which legendaries would we use for ST/dungs

[young idol]

dont you know? venthyr tmog is a dps increase

[wraith badge]

just made the swap

[worn path]

Doom blade is only bis for pure single target. For progression and any cleave fights I’d recommend zoldyck

[split veldt]

says doomblade

[tired hill]

doomblade st i assume

[quaint phoenix]

😂😂😂😂

Wtf happening here

[split veldt]

so doomblade ST and zold for M+?

[celest rover]

@gusty mirage nicest thing anyone's ever said about me

[young idol]

just tryna get all my bois suited for the ember court

[celest rover]

Zold?

[gusty mirage]

@celest rover I’m all about the good vibes

[brittle pawn]

haste/vers or haste/crit on leggos?

[quaint phoenix]

Pins for the wins!

[celest rover]

Oh zoldyk. That one bores me in general

[wraith badge]

crit haste

[gusty mirage]

You’re probably good with either, but crit/haste is the go to

[young idol]

somehow i magically looted sin gear as sub and also managed to pick venthyr in 9.0.. hmm.. coincidence?

[brittle pawn]

pins say haste/vers people say haste/crit

[gusty mirage]

You were just playing 4d chess while everyone else was playing checkers

[brittle pawn]

the only gear to loot is sin gear lol

unless you pvp

[young idol]

tru lol

has anyone noticed they looted every other specs conduits before their main specs?

or am I catching an unseen trend

[fading girder]

yes

[split veldt]

so we put doomblade on hands?

why not shoulders

[fading girder]

conduits don't seem to care what spec you are

[gusty mirage]

I had full assa conduits before I had more than 1 sub one lol

[young idol]

amen I had full outlaw before a 158 planned execution lol

[past bobcat]

So is MA still going to be a good legendary?

[gusty mirage]

The game was guiding me and I was blind

[young idol]

I STILL dont have a planned execution above 158 lol

[strange python]

I got mine on shoulders before I seen the pin. I doubt there is a huge difference

[rigid tartan]

cuz you get 233 shoulders from mythic slg which most of players wont kill

[brittle pawn]

the idea is that if you get mythic slg shoulders, they are 233

[ornate raptor]

Idd some get it some wont

[young idol]

i say we start a 14 rogue dps comp amirite

[brittle pawn]

ready for heroic prog

[stoic needle]

Read closer, the pins say vers = crit

[vast pond]

So if we switch covs, do we lose all the anima we have just sitting? I was saving for the garden and I'm at 11k. Would that transfer? Or stay in Adren?

[split veldt]

i have 226 haste/crit gloves already tho, and my shoulders are 220 crit vers

would rather have perfect stated shoulders

[stoic needle]

235 legendary shoulders and gloves have the exact same stats

Craft whatever is your worse slot between the two

[gusty mirage]

@stoic needle it’s almost time for you to enjoy some red kool aid with smug superiority

[stoic needle]

Buy a bunch of covenant tmog before you swap and sell it back to a vendor for a refund after swapping

[stoic needle]

SOOOON

[split veldt]

imagine doing any of the covy upgrades

omegalul

[vast pond]

Need that oribos portal my dude

[split veldt]

i have engi

[stoic needle]

I have 8k anima saved up because I knew that venthyr was gonna be good as soon as I saw the rework

[split veldt]

i got that ori portal

[gusty mirage]

Just be an engineer

Portal problem fixed

[vast pond]

I am

[split veldt]

O.O

[vast pond]

Just like having multiples incase I have to do a lot of conduit switching

[split veldt]

i guess it's nice that lashing is bis for ST and M+

one less thing to swap

[gusty mirage]

I just afk run off Elysian hold when I’m not doing stuff anyway. Waiting for the angels to just let me fall to my death because they’re tired of grabbing my dumb ass

[stoic needle]

Oxi out here wishing for the sweet release of death

[split veldt]

door of shadows is so LAME compared to soulshape tho, i hate that it has a cast

[gusty mirage]

I had it as venthyr, I’d try to slow fall from the grate up top and die every time

[stoic needle]

Have you noticed the one dredger by the edge in the middle that you can kick into the hole?

[young pebble]

but what about cheesing CN bleeds with phial 😦

[strange python]

Get better healers

[gusty mirage]

I spent about 2 hours trying to get to him

[hard pivot]

Swapped to venthyr the other day and finished the campaign last night. And I somehow got a 213 lashing scars on day 1 of being venthyr

[stoic needle]

That's your healers job bruh

[gusty mirage]

It’s a sign, vamp boys are OP

[young pebble]

TRU

[rigid tartan]

wait where in the world you get 213 covenant conduit from doing the campaign

[stoic needle]

Poor kyrians

[gusty mirage]

I’m excited about some 226 conduits from raid

[stoic needle]

From best to worst cov in half a tier

[split veldt]

what ability are yall using MFD on in M+

[vast pond]

can someone send me a soulbind string for venth? I'm wanting to sim it for my toon.

[split veldt]

rupture?

[gusty mirage]

Gimme those potency conduits blizz

[stoic needle]

Usually Rupture yeah

[hard pivot]

Went from 145 straight to 200 from a calling and then Ve’nari blessed me with an upgrade

[stoic needle]

Garotte x 4, ct, MFD rup fok fok rup

[split veldt]

is it really worth it for MFD, when you dont have to manage vigor at all

[stoic needle]

Yes it is

MFD is just bis

Especially as venthyr

[split veldt]

QQ

[gusty mirage]

I switched for pvp purposes mostly, but idk now

[manic harness]

What?

Supposedly DS is his for vampy?

Is bis*

[stoic needle]

For single target

[split veldt]

what is the opener for MA talent

[stoic needle]

For m+ MFD is by far bis

[manic harness]

Oh okay

I have a ton of simming to do on Tuesday

[split veldt]

wait DS is bis for ST veny?

[stoic needle]

Yep

By a large margin

[split veldt]

but muh energy

[stoic needle]

The more haste you get the worse vigor is

[split veldt]

hmm true

i have like 780

[stoic needle]

It's not so much gear haste

It's flag and thrill seeker haste

[split veldt]

ah

good point

[stoic needle]

And alacrity too

[split veldt]

but zold still bis for M+?

[stoic needle]

It's roughly equal with MA

[half fable]

Hmm

[manic harness]

I wonder if you go MfD if you go Theotar?

[stoic needle]

They're the two best

[half fable]

So MA would be better to upgrade 1st?

[manic harness]

Since you swear by it osh

[gleaming eagle]

lol

[half fable]

as its compareable to Zold, , and better for st/raid?

[split veldt]

my zold is 235, so ill just use that for M+

[gleaming eagle]

why cheat death sim higher than leech?

[young pebble]

I would, it's just a great all around leggo

[gleaming eagle]

that does not make any sense

[loud niche]

do we use exacting preparation or dauntless duelist? i would imagine the former?

[half fable]

Thanks!

[manic harness]

Duelist

[stoic needle]

Personally I would upgrade zoldyck first

[half fable]

Why so?

[manic harness]

Osh

If you go Theotar, do you still use Deeper or MfD st?

[stoic needle]

I'm not sure tbh I need to play with nadjia again in keys to say definitively but I'm pretty sure theotar is gonna be better for keys

[manic harness]

Kk

[stoic needle]

You wouldnt use MFD on ST

We aren't outlaw lol

[manic harness]

True lmao

[gleaming eagle]

vigor is the best still i think

[manic harness]

These past few months have been rough on my poor lil fingers

[gleaming eagle]

i wonder if deeper is good after next week

since we get more regen now

[loud niche]

we use the duelist for 3% flat dps increase over the 20% increased food, flask and wep enchant?

[manic harness]

Duelist is straight up like 200 dpsbif you're in Mythic gear

Probably more depending on your gear level

[half fable]

Oh wow, Zold is the easiest leggo to use in the world. I may take that over MA just to be brain dead...

[subtle tundra]

there are plenty of leggos that dont affect rotations at all

[split maple]

Zold + Cut to the Chase being back = Max lazy mode 😂

[stoic needle]

Honestly, it's close enough that it's personal preference. I think that zoldyck gives us a unique damage profile that's just always useful. Zoldyck is useful on tyrannical and on fortified. MA gives good burst for prides but you can already vendetta those for free and not lose anything so I don't particularly find that burst to be useful. I don't think that it's worth it to try to complete with classes like fire mage and boomkin for aoe burst and burst damage. Our strength is in sustained damage in keys and executing literally everything that moves so that's why I like zoldyck. In raids you'd go doomblade for single target anyway

[half fable]

Thats.

a really damned good point.

[stoic needle]

So it's like, MA isn't bad at all, but I feel like zoldyck is more sin

[half fable]

I honestly, %100 agree with that

based on the thoughts above.

[split maple]

zold also really good on Prog

Sin in general really good on prog

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck was so fucking nice last week on raging tyrannical

[split maple]

Historically anyway

[stoic needle]

Who needs to soothe when they die soon after enraging anyway

And it makes you do more damage after lust/pride falls off on a long tyrannical boss fight

[split maple]

^ this right here. Big

[split veldt]

damn, i just simmed doomblade ST and it's like a 330 dps increase even before switching to veny

[stoic needle]

Like I literally soloed the 2nd boss in spires from 3% after my whole team wiped

Just dotted and kited like my life depended on it

Couldn't do that with MA

[split veldt]

yeah fuck MA, was pretty fun as outlaw tho with KS

[stoic needle]

I had to use healthstone, health pot, cheat death, cloak and evasion to live but damnit I killed him lmao

[fluid dust]

Gloves vs Shoulders doomblade, is there any real difference?

[brittle pawn]

Not unless you farm mythic slg

[split veldt]

im going shoulders because my guild is still progging on council

and my current shoulders are 220 and not bis stats

and my current gloves are 226 bis

plus this tier is almost over, so it's w/e imo, in my situation anyway

[loud niche]

almost over, you think so?

[split veldt]

2-3 months?

[loud niche]

yeah, that's a fairly long time imo

[split veldt]

yeah, so halfway i guess

nvm

[wide ridge]

is crit/haste bis now or haste/vers

or still equal

[loud niche]

haste/mastery now fam

im kidding, btw

[buoyant mauve]

another oshoshi extremist

[gleaming eagle]

haste vers still best

vers > mastery because of our auto attacks

my autos is like 2nd or 3rd in chart for dps

[loud niche]

mine are #1

[gleaming eagle]

my poison is 1

high vers maybe?

[fading girder]

my melee is usually 1, too

[gleaming eagle]

i mean i have pretty decent vers but not high enough vers to get my autos to 1

[wide ridge]

h,,

hmm

i have mythic kael gloves and haste/mast shoulders, should i craft doomblade on shoulders then?

you think?

both 226 of course

[loud niche]

should prolly sim it

when raidbots takes on the update on tues, just sim it and anything else. not like you won't have time to make adjustments after all

[tender folio]

Haste/vers bis now

[wide ridge]

hmm gotcha

[tender folio]

Just keep everything rdy when it hits live 😄

[mild flame]

is there a place where i can find which CN boss drops which conduit?

the potency counduits*

[loud niche]

in game

[mild flame]

Don't have ptr installed XD

[loud niche]

in game retail live

shift+J

[mild flame]

potency conduits, not just the current endurance / finesse

[loud niche]

yes

you can find out which bosses currently drop anything

by simply going through them

and checking

[stoic needle]

MASTERY STACK DOOMBLADE GANG RISE UP

[loud niche]

what the

[mild flame]

Are we even talking about the same thing? I'm literally looking at it atm

[wide ridge]

oshoshi imma call 911

[stoic needle]

WE MAY BE SUBOPTIMAL BUT OUR ENVENOM ARE MASSIVE

[dense axle]

anyone know if those sims in pins include the buff to SBS for necro?

[sinful cradle]

Yes

[loud niche]

the raid bosses don't drop ptoency yet, what the hell are you asking lol

[mild flame]

I am asking what they will drop after next patch

which is next Tuesday

[stoic needle]

You'll never take me alive

[ornate raptor]

My sim said for me crit/haste as stats

[gleaming eagle]

what conduit you guys using

well placed steel

?

[limber lion]

yes crit haste very good very nice very yes

[dull cloak]

is crit not super value for sin

[gleaming eagle]

crit is good

for pvp

[stoic needle]

Crit haste is best for aoe

[limber lion]

Yeh,

[split veldt]

[gleaming eagle]

and crit also good for pvp

[hushed sphinx]

it's time to go venthyr boys

[limber lion]

I'm already 6 renown, goml @split veldt

[gleaming eagle]

i think crit/vers is best for pvp

[ornate raptor]

Its what the sim says

[tribal mauve]

how do you catch up on renown

[ornate raptor]

And i did spoke to whisp about it

[stoic needle]

Haste/mastery or crit/mastery for the true chads

[gleaming eagle]

mastery maybe for necro

[stoic needle]

Play the game

[gleaming eagle]

after next week

[stoic needle]

Heroic world tour

[gleaming eagle]

im NF for lyfe

blink is king

[stoic needle]

Every boss in heroic has a chance of dropping renown

[limber lion]

Currently doing a normal run :---D

LFG next

[stoic needle]

Can get 1-3 per dungeon

[ornate raptor]

Right? But venthyr is juicy

[stoic needle]

[sinful cradle]

Surely the truest chads goes mastery/vers or?

[tribal mauve]

so i just have to spam heroic dungeon

[young pebble]

Kyrian gang waiting for 9.1 buffs bigbrain plays

[stoic needle]

All my homies hate vers

Why would you want your auto attacks to be your highest damage

[sinful cradle]

But we love bigger ns envenoms

[gleaming eagle]

it depensd

if you guys dont do pvp

i guess vent is fine

[hollow barn]

If you're running CT, how many targets do you need before it's worth applying

[gleaming eagle]

my activities are arenas and m+

[stoic needle]

Mastery gives the largest contribution to envenom and bleed/poison damage pet point

[stoic needle]

1

[gleaming eagle]

so i need my blink

[mild flame]

is venthyr debuff magic?

[wraith vault]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[stoic needle]

Sixeval I don't think you're taking into consideration that flag does absolutely ridiculous damage in pvp right now with the conduit

Like 30k in one go

[gleaming eagle]

yeah but assa get kited so easily

1 shadow step and door of shadow can get canceled

what are you going to do against mages lol

[young pebble]

tbh blizz is gonna come down on this super quick

[gleaming eagle]

you hit hard but you cant reach them

[stoic needle]

True

[gleaming eagle]

if they give us 2 charges shadowstep

then vent is the way to go even for pvp

[surreal current]

one of the pins says that deeper is better for venthyr but the other pin says play 3 3 1, wich one is it? or is it a gear thing

[stoic needle]

Yeah why the fuck does sub get 2 shadowstep

[hollow barn]

ninja

[stoic needle]

Deeper is better

It's a marginal gain for nf/necro, and a large one for venthyr

[mild flame]

can venthyr debuff be dispelled? heard that it counts as magic debuff

[limber lion]

Renown 7

23 more to go

[wide ridge]

how often does LFR bosses drop renown?

[tired falcon]

only last boss drops renown

[wide ridge]

cringe

[stoic needle]

Heroic dungeon spam is the way

[tired falcon]

i mean

in m+

and mythic 0 and heroic

[limber lion]

You can get Renown from every boss

But you won't.

[wide ridge]

i just did a heroic dg and got 0 renown

[limber lion]

I've killed 5 bosses and gotten 4 renown so far 🙂

[wide ridge]

if you kill a boss on difficulty X and get renown, can you get from it again in another difficulty?

[stoic needle]

I think so

[split veldt]

damn i lost all my souls switching too

guess it's good i dont really care about the upgrades

[hushed sphinx]

Also the current flag is so shit to use

[split veldt]

haha yeah but gotta get ready for raid next week now

[stoic needle]

Yeah I'm waiting until Tuesday to swap I have more keys to run

[celest rover]

I did LFR for renown and you get a ton

[stoic needle]

Doing them with current flag is just... No

[split veldt]

im only doing 14's this week for vault

[celest rover]

After that, pretty much every calling gives renown

At like sub-30 renown that is

[stoic needle]

This is push week

I want ksm

[split veldt]

i got mine a couple weeks ago

[stoic needle]

Nice

[limber lion]

I swapped just so I can farm as much renown before the reset

So I can do a full heroic and full LFR run this week and do the same stuff next week

[stoic needle]

It's annoying that the vault for next week won't be valor upgradeable

[limber lion]

And be renown 30 before raid

[split veldt]

i literally did them all last push week lmfao

[stoic needle]

I'm already 26 renown with venthyr so I don't have as much catch up to do

[limber lion]

Yeah I did 7 dungeons yesterday. Went from 1412 rating to 1600 in one sitting

[stoic needle]

Nice

[frank sail]

With the changes coming in to SBS and Flagellation, are we likely to see either of them overtake Spesis NF , as the main covenant for ST damage?

[limber lion]

vampire big

[stoic needle]

[frank sail]

ooooh didnt see the pinned messages

[split veldt]

[frank sail]

thanks Osho

[sick ledge]

I have 8000 souls ahses on my rogue, what leg should I craft as assa ? Doing m+ / pvp mostly

[buoyant mauve]

I'm sitting atop a massive 565 io score atm

[hushed sphinx]

door of shadows ASS

[stoic needle]

If you can only pick one, MA. After that Zoldyck

MA is bis for sin pvp rn

And good in keys

[sick ledge]

already got MA 235, i'll craft the leggings then

[mild flame]

MA is best general use for pvp doomblade is probably better if you aren't going for one shot

[gusty hollow]

hmm How do I sim mysef with PTR changes? ptr1 or something `?

[frank sail]

@stoic needle seeing as youre clearly knowing of how its looking, so ive read the pins and it states venthy... which is great and the top ST legendarys are showing Zols to drop quite a lot, and Dashing making a top tier appearance... i currently have both zol/dash at 225 and saving for tier 4, would it be wise then with the 9.0.5 changes in sight to get tier 4 dashing?

[azure bronze]

Think Doomblade will be the bis leggo starting next week for ST no ?

[stoic needle]

Depends on what your focus is and what you're progging currently in raid. If you're going to do sire prog soon you'd probably want to upgrade zoldyck, if not dashing. If you do m+ then zoldyck

[frank sail]

according to sims yes, but 190 vs 235, for the stats alone might just push it

i do M+ / bout to start mythic

currently 210~ ilvl, great weps and ok trinks.. stat weights are averaged with 19%crit 25% haste 24% mastery

[stoic needle]

I don't think you can go wrong with either. You do m+, so upgrading zold isn't bad, and there's an equal amount of cleave and st in the first few fights in mythic

[frank sail]

okies cool, thanks 🙂

[ripe gulch]

are yall going venthyr or necro

in .5

[stoic needle]

[gusty hollow]

Necro already baby

[pulsar sluice]

Necro is tempting

[buoyant mauve]

just waiting to get the 2nd quest for rejoining venth

[vast pond]

Think I'm staying Fae until I see a large amount of parse

[ripe gulch]

i think necro is the pick also

[pulsar sluice]

for the sole fact that i mainly play with healer in pvp

[steel bane]

is the difference between Elaborate Planning and Blindside still small after the changes?

[pulsar sluice]

do we even play blindside with doomblade

[steel bane]

according to the pin, yeah

[stoic needle]

Ep is outsimming blindside for some now

[split veldt]

fine with me if it does

lmao

[wary ice]

so how is everyone preparing for the deluge of q's come tuesday

[steel bane]

same, not a fan of blinside

[pulsar sluice]

ambush just a bad spell to use

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor so with sbs affecting doomblade now do you think that necro doomblade could make ct worth it over pb on ST?

[wide ridge]

blindside will feel good with DS tho

free cp

[stoic needle]

I like blindside but I also like big envenoms

So ep it is for me

[steel bane]

if the difference is small I'm going EP as well. Enjoy the playstyle a lot more

[wary ice]

Blindside is an amazing feels good talent rn imo if only cause its an energyless global

[stoic needle]

But with venthyr we will have more energy to work with

[pulsar sluice]

why is doomblade siming well for dslice lmao

is that 3 target dslice?

[stoic needle]

Dslice is variable between single target and 5 targets

The single target portion of dslice makes doomblade look good

I low-key want to try 54 apm dashing nadjia vigor zoomer sin

But I cba

[steel bane]

I wanna go necro but ST difference too big

[spice spire]

I feel like I’m giving off misinterpretation of Doomblade. In mythic+ if you look at theater of pain, If you don’t GIGA pull the platforms on the way to the hand boss. The platforms, the entire way leading up to Xav (minus the six person pack) and the small packs in gorechop’s wing are all great for Doomblade. It just falls very far behind the ghosts and most of that one wing.

If you’re doing 3 cleave or less, Doomblade is appropriate. If you’re doing more and often, less so

[stoic needle]

Sure

[azure bronze]

Kinda depends, I think Necro is best for overall in all scenarios now/for all specs while venthyr only really shines on pure ST

[stoic needle]

Top is probably the best dungeon for doomblade

Especially on tyrannical

[fallow notch]

How rough does swapping this week feel? Especially going Venthyr with that clunky ability

[stoic needle]

I don't think it's unusable for m+ but it'll have it's niches

I wouldn't swap to venthyr during a push week that's for sure

[spice spire]

That’s why I used it as an example. It’s very much fine there. But it still has tremendous downside

Don’t go necrotic wake though

[fallow notch]

Ahh yeah. Ill wait for next week then. Also first week of reclear of the raid

[coral imp]

got a 20 nw to time before the patch rip ma

[young pebble]

With CN being the way it is and the buffs to M+ loot I feel like having a solution that works well enough for ST and cleave could be a better idea than focusing bigly on ST only

[pulsar sluice]

swap next week id say

[young pebble]

Hence why Necro sounds so attractive to me. It's just super versatile

[azure bronze]

For necro you probably use Emeni for Sin and Heimir for OL

[pulsar sluice]

you know

[azure bronze]

I am atleast going to play Sin for all the ST raid fights + Sire and then OL everything cleave related

[young pebble]

Just that... Necro mog feels like it's -200 DPS

[azure bronze]

yeaaaah

I don't really like it either

Looks good as undead though

[stoic needle]

There is less of a difference between venthyr and necro in aoe than there is between venthyr and necro in st so I don't think this is a correct statement

[coral imp]

gonna miss soulshape

[pulsar sluice]

i just dont wanna suck ass in pvp with venthyr

[coral imp]

disorient door of shadows tho 👀

[kind walrus]

Which soulbind in venthyr do you play, is it nadja?

[rocky ruin]

always nadja

for st in venthyr

[kind walrus]

which one do you run in the last row of nadja then? 2nd potency or

[limber lion]

Oh lookie, it's you

[limber lion]

Dauntless Duelist

Potency conduits are pretty dog for us

[kind walrus]

oh my g @limber lion 😉

[stoic needle]

Nadjia but you will sometimes play theotar if the fight has bad mechanic timings for thrill seeker

[kind walrus]

i just hate how Venthyr looks xd

[limber lion]

Already did the swap a few hours ago. 10 renown currently

[stoic needle]

Pardon me?

[kind walrus]

Sorry xd

[stoic needle]

How can you hate the looks of the best looking covenant

[kind walrus]

y i want to change this week aswell, don't know if i raid sunday or nah

[young pebble]

nuh uh - angelwings

[stoic needle]

Counterpoint: blade cape

[young pebble]

TRUE

[stoic needle]

The most rogue transmog ever to exist

[spice spire]

Imagine hating venthyr mog LMAO

Outside of shoulders

[azure bronze]

Think it's the best lookin out the 4

but they have such tiny daggers

[fleet anchor]

I mean, Night Fae is the best overall not Necro. Necro is still likely behind and has worse soulbinds.

[dull fulcrum]

How are you farming renown?

[rocky ruin]

they are so big the shoulders

i startet sunday venthyr and today got 30

[fleet anchor]

Venthyr is optimal for ST min-max but still has some weaknesses for AoE, especially for Outlaw flexibility.

Personally don’t see any reason to swap off Night Fae but they are close enough now that people can just play what transmog they want tbh.

[spice spire]

So change might not be needed is what I hear

[stoic needle]

Nope

[spice spire]

I do want to test Necro for science though

[stoic needle]

No one is holding you at gunpoint forcing you to switch lol

[fleet anchor]

Mystler is working on full sims now with all the changes. But that’s the most likely outcome atm.

[azure bronze]

Ah okay

[fleet anchor]

Necro almost certainly still gonna be last though imo.

But probably by a pretty small amount.

[stoic needle]

Even behind kyrian?

[spice spire]

I really am curious to see if the necro bleed will be affected by Zoldyck’s

[fleet anchor]

I mean overall. Kyrian is really far behind for Assassination so not sure about that.

Kyrian is good for Sub and Outlaw though.

[stoic needle]

Ah I see. I missed that we were talking about all specs

[simple wadi]

so venth vs. fae choice might come down to how much you prioritize single target vs. multi target flexibility?

[fleet anchor]

Well I think flexibility is still important when considering covenants. But yeah. We will see soon how it shakes out. A lot more combos to run.

[spice spire]

It very well could.

[split veldt]

how do yall open witht he MA talent?

[rocky ruin]

Mut-SND-Mut

[stoic needle]

@fleet anchor do you think that there's any chance that our opener logic will change with the addition of CTTC? With subterfuge a garotte into 1cp SnD seems like it could be a gain

I'm also curious if the logic around target counts to use SND on will change as well after the VW energy change

[split veldt]

no envemon with MA talent?

[stoic needle]

Not on the opener, no

[sweet trellis]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[fleet anchor]

I had the best luck still starting with 3cp

[split veldt]

weird

[stoic needle]

Getting up your dots and SND is still more important

[vast pond]

does cttc keep stacking, or does it stop at what a 5pt SND would?

[stoic needle]

It caps

[fleet anchor]

It stops at the max pandemic

[vast pond]

Figured as much.

[split veldt]

so mut - snd - mut - garrote - rupt?

[limber lion]

Just did the daily quests in Revendreth. Just finished a normal raid run as well. 11 Renown now

[vast pond]

Was hoping for an outlaw scenario where you can get a 4min SnD

[stoic needle]

Sadly we can't get a 2+min SnD like outlaw can lol

[shadow helm]

sadge!!!

[simple wadi]

i dont think outlaw enjoys getting those giga snds tho

[vast pond]

Well, I do if it's from a 5 buff roll 😛

[native lynx]

no, because then you have to have that buff up forever

and your reroll luck shit the bed

[ebon tundra]

So, question. Do I spend all my stygia on tryna get my 200 Flag higher or save it for sockets?

[azure bronze]

with 9.05 flag conduit will drop of denathrius

Scaling with raid ilvl

so hc will drop a 213 conduit

[ebon tundra]

Ah! I guess I missed that in the notes. That makes it easy then. Thank you

[lean fossil]

so nf will be better for more cleave and venth is more st for sin come next tuesday?

because the pins show venth being better for both

[obsidian willow]

What’s a good legendary for Sin rogue?

[hollow jungle]

pins

[lean fossil]

zold, ma, doomblade

[edgy notch]

at how many targets do we use fan of knives

[split veldt]

4

[lean fossil]

4+

tho its an easy way to refresh poisons on other targets also

[obsidian willow]

Where should i craft my doomblade legendary for pvp?

[lean fossil]

so like if youre cleaving 3

pvp go ma

100% crit

[strange python]

most go gloves if doomblade

[limber lion]

Yeah, if you're a mythic raider than can kill mythic SLG.

Otherwise doesn't really matter.

[lean fossil]

id go shoulders but thats just me

[strange python]

i have shoulders

[limber lion]

Yeah doesn't matter

[hollow jungle]

just get shoulders from slg

[lean fossil]

not doing mythic slg so....

ill take my 235 legendary shoulders and have a good day

[limber lion]

Just replace your worse item with it.

[hollow jungle]

okay?

[split veldt]

where does it say where potency conduits drop in nathria

is it only covenant conduits?

[coral imp]

no, potency in general

[raven hollow]

I've been toying around with rolling Sin for raids. Since there's so much add and multi-target in CN, is the meta just to run CT throughout?

Or is PB still worth speccing for Xymox and Hungering or some shit

[dull fulcrum]

Hidden Blades

[iron orchid]

PB Is better on most fights

[agile geode]

If i want to play raid and m+ wich one u suggest??

[spice spire]

PB is the play on a lot of fights

[agile geode]

Venthyr or necro??

[sinful cradle]

Whatever you enjoy the most

[primal zinc]

does flagellation rally changing?

[iron orchid]

CT Probably a slight gain on huntsman,and a bigger gain on Sun king and SLG

Don't even think it is worth talenting CT on Inerva because adds have a very low uptime

[agile geode]

Necro is so much behind in st than venthyr

Dunno

[raven hollow]

Weeeird. I thought having another bleed would be huge.

[sinful cradle]

Not that much tbh

[iron orchid]

but it is more downtime-friendly

and easier to use

easier to match the sim probably

[sinful cradle]

Are you pushing very high keys or wr 100?

And ye, necro much easier to use

[agile geode]

Necro easier?

Mmm

Dont know

For outlaw is big necro

[ornate raptor]

Il go venthyr after my last raid on monday evening

[split veldt]

so theotar and refined palate is the way?

[sinful cradle]

I myself was so quick to swap covenants after downing mythic sire

And delete my outlaw weapon

[agile geode]

Who is going necro?

[subtle kiln]

the cool kids

[agile geode]

DAMN

[gentle sable]

mama said i am cool

so i guess necro for me too

[subtle kiln]

or just play what you want and want and have some fun.

[sinful cradle]

We all know sbs will be giga good on next tier with these buffs cuz blizzard hates melee friendly raid

[subtle kiln]

don’t even know what optimizations are in the apl for necro

it’ll sort itself out

[burnt star]

Necro is the ugliest set ever made for leather haha

Whoever design those leather shoulder

[tribal marsh]

👀

[gray fjord]

I wonder how much/if blindside is affected by bone spike being used, since you'd be using mutilate less so fewer opportunities to proc the free ambushes.

[gentle sable]

w8 a minute ! if sbs is perma bleed why spam it in single target ?

[slender trail]

you won't though as ambush is free, so it's not like you're using resources to cast it

[gray fjord]

The damage is heavily frontloaded @gentle sable (you still use it as a cheap generator/filler on live anyhow without the tuning buff)

[slender trail]

just a global

[iron orchid]

for the instant damage of the spear

[gray fjord]

And you get tons of CP for cheap

[slender trail]

but sin isn't gcd limited

[cunning musk]

What I am curious on is that Blizzard still has not answered the whole "Exsanguinate" affecting SBS

[vast pond]

I heard it was fixed on ptr

Haven't tested though

[stoic needle]

It's fixed yeah

[cunning musk]

ahh ok

[torpid spoke]

Fixed

[vast pond]

They also fixed the doomblade bug too

[stoic needle]

📈

[cunning musk]

which doomblade bug?

[tight ravine]

vampire time

[stoic needle]

The dot was affected by armor

[gentle sable]

maybe elaborate planning will benefit more for doomblade lego and the "free" CP from blindside will be gained through cheap SBS ?

[stoic needle]

EP does outsim blindside for some people

[limber lion]

Just got into a LFG Sire group

[cunning musk]

ahh sweet

[limber lion]

Is LFG Sire ezpz? :--)

[stoic needle]

Oh God

[cunning musk]

Yeah that was a big deal, I am glad they addressed that

[stoic needle]

I have no idea

[gentle sable]

you mean LFR ?

[limber lion]

Or aids like Nzoth

LFR* yeah

Sorry lmao

[gray fjord]

Apparently it is yes

[gentle sable]

its like so easy even without tacts you can kill him

[limber lion]

Literally here just for the renown.

[gray fjord]

"Apparently" is the keyword though, I haven't done it xD

[limber lion]

Haven't done any lfr since legion

[cunning musk]

lol

[gentle sable]

i have seen people messing up the tacts so much and still killing him

[gray fjord]

I only get tempted for transmog, tbh

[cunning musk]

LFR imo has always been a Troll-Central

[worldly bridge]

is there a list of mm+ somewhere, listing if CT is better than PB ? ik it depends on tank pulls but some will be better than others (thinking about PF being meh cuz mostly 3-4 target, compared to Mists with bigger pulls)

[split veldt]

damn, gonna be 3 weeks until i can get level 4 doom

feelsbad

[loud niche]

1 week after tuesday ill have r4 doom feelsgood

[paper bloom]

Yeah LFR Sire is a meme fight, half of the group not bothering with mechanics and still not a worry

[meager yacht]

Does the new passive change anything? Is it worth?

[gray fjord]

Cut to the Chase? I mean I think it was like a 2-3% DPS gain and makes slice and dice a 1 button per fight move basically. xD Lots more energy/CP for other things now

[split veldt]

more envenoms, lesss snd managment

is good

[meager yacht]

Nice!!

[limber lion]

okay lmao, just one person died in the fight

That's how LFR should be

[gray fjord]

Yeah I heard LFR Sire was pretty faceroll, that's good xD

[limber lion]

Boys, I have peaked

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6qBxRk9YTfcZNypW/#fight=last&view=rankings

[ionic kelp]

i didnt even know u can log lfr

[limber lion]

Okay apparently the log is fucked all of a sudden, but I got r1 lfr

lmao

[pliant sorrel]

Those pinned sims seem too juicy to be true

[limber lion]

I'm glad it was so easy, Nzoth was so bad.

[pliant sorrel]

Sad I’m on SLG prog, outlaw too good for it

[limber lion]

Yeah same, I'm not allowed to play Assa on it

kek

[stoic needle]

Ct is better in every key

[agile geode]

Lol

[pliant sorrel]

Such a bad time for sin to finnaly be good for us

[worldly bridge]

You only cast it in 4+ situations right ?

[stoic needle]

You cast it in single target

If you have it, it should be up as much as possible

[meager yacht]

I cant figure out how to look at CN Mythic class dps rankings on warcraft logs, any idea how?

Nevermind! Lol...

[limber lion]

Confirmed and tested by me:
You CAN clear different raid difficulties to get renown from the SAME BOSSES that you have ALREADY killed.

Big.

14 renown going strong, did the swap like 4 hours ago

[misty holly]

Imagine if it stacked forever. Spend 6 hours on a target dummy before raid getting your buff time up so you don't have to cast it rest of the night.

[agile geode]

What u swap ceverion?₩

[vast pond]

@misty holly Or until you die lol

[limber lion]

I swapped from Night Fae to Venthyr.

[cunning musk]

sweet!

[agile geode]

Uff

I like venthyr

But necrolord seems stronger for overrall

[limber lion]

Eh depends. But they're so close that it doesn't really matter

[vast pond]

I think the play is to wait for the full sims and a week or so of parses

[limber lion]

Just play what you want

[vast pond]

I'm staying NF for now

[simple wadi]

Same dangles

[misty holly]

The 3 cool covenants will all be pretty balanced I think. Kyrian get screwed tho

[naive rock]

I tried necro before swapping to venth. Sbs does not feel good to play

[agile geode]

Fuck fairyes

[simple wadi]

Although that venth burst looks so juicy but I like M+ so much that I’m not ready to give it a go

[misty holly]

Kyrian soldiers can't complete missions. They can't protect their leader. They let the Necrolords shit all over their zone. Why would anyone want to be Kyrian now.

[regal crag]

SBS is such a fucking cool idea - You just throw a bone spike and just let that linger in them. You give them a splinter practically lmao

[dull fulcrum]

They live near SoA (?)

[stoic needle]

I feel like both necro and venthyr are gonna be better than night fae for m+ now

[misty holly]

But burrs

[stoic needle]

Are useless in m+?

Night fae is hard carried by first strike

Which is nice, don't get me wrong

But I'd rather have venthyr haste

And necro gives just as much cp in the long term and it's more reliable

The sims seem to reflect this as well

[simple wadi]

I think In the long run venth gonna be better in high keys for the priority damage

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[raven hollow]

!STATS

[stoic needle]

The haste buff is good for aoe damage too

[simple wadi]

Yes but i think that’s secondary to your job as a primary prideful killer

While still doing reliable aoe

[limber lion]

Weird how a lot of people swear by the 2/3/9 and 2/4/14 raid sizes and that nothing else can be used.

"We cannot add one more dps, we already have 14"

And LFR is 2/5/15

Kek

[stoic needle]

Lol

[limber lion]

Like I've legit applied to some groups and gotten "Sorry, we have max dps already. Maybe I can invite you if someone leaves?"

[simple wadi]

Honestly the best thing about NF is the blink

[limber lion]

This is true.

#facts

[stoic needle]

I just mean to say that venthyr gets this perception of being a single target covenant but it's still really good in aoe as well

[simple wadi]

Hard to give up

[stoic needle]

It's just well rounded

For sin at least

[rough agate]

Never seen 2/4/14 tbh but I don’t really do pug stuff

[limber lion]

wat

[simple wadi]

I think it’s being underrated in outlaw too

[vast pond]

@stoic needle what makes it good for AOE? Honest question. The haste buff make a big enough difference for dots ticking faster on multiple targets?

[rough agate]

Or maybe I don’t pay attention lol

[regal crag]

The group sizes don't matter, brain cell count does lol

And ilvl

[limber lion]

To a certain degree

[iron orchid]

pretty much yeah

[stoic needle]

Yes it does. It's quite a large haste buff, you get 10 stacks automatically if the target dies before the buff ends so you can get 20%+ haste easily which is absolutely huge

[iron orchid]

And flag adds a bit of that prio damage you sometimes want to have

[simple wadi]

Another thing I keep wrestling with : yes most fights aren’t patchwerk but how frequently do even multi target encounters come down to single target burn phases? Venth just seems built for that even if your pad in other places go down

[iron orchid]

you could spent cps on a crimson tempest and still hit more ont he one target you flagged

[simple wadi]

For example - I would have killed to have current flag for mythic council in p3 even if my waiter damage was lower

[limber lion]

Renown 15

ok farming renown is ez

[stoic needle]

That's the thing. New flag is good no matter what way you look at it

[split veldt]

theotar bis for ST and M+?

[iron orchid]

The only real downside i see to playing venthyr is the facts that buff from the soulbind trees ain't easy to optimize

[stoic needle]

I'd say it's bis for m+, and better than nadjia for ST only on certain fights where mechanics make thrill seeker sketchy

[iron orchid]

In sims, Whispyr ran Nadjia on ST

[split veldt]

watch in 9.1 when blizz adds more conduits and shit we gotta go back to fae

[iron orchid]

But thrill seeker can be kinda meh

[simple wadi]

Agree - necrolord just kinda seems like it inflates the air meters without actually doing much

[stoic needle]

Like, you don't want to run nadjia on council, xymox, hungering or shriekwing

[split veldt]

well im way to lazy to hearth and change cov based on fights lmao

or wait

can you switch soulbinds

in raid

[limber lion]

Yes

[split veldt]

okay nvm then

[iron orchid]

yup

just use a freaking book

better wording

[split veldt]

so why not nadjia on those fights?

[iron orchid]

Because You could get thrill seeker to proc on phases where you are forced into downtime

which is a direct loss

[split veldt]

couldnt the same be said for theo's mastery

[iron orchid]

the thing is, Nadjia is a timer, and theotar is a "random proc" iirc

[split veldt]

fair point

[iron orchid]

but anyways, it all comes down to the fact that any venthyr soulbind looks really easily affected by downtime

[limber lion]

Ok you can easily get renown 30 in 2 days

[iron orchid]

where NF Niya is better in the situation

[iron orchid]

yeah

[limber lion]

I take back what I said about 2 resets

[tribal marlin]

downtime affect venthyr in all form

you have more haste = cap energy faster

it plays Deeper strat so you cap energy even faster etc...

and if you move during Flag you lose even more

[iron orchid]

You could do all your daily heroic dungeons, M0 and they usually give you renown too

[stoic needle]

Overcapping energy is way less of a loss than wasting your once every 2 minutes proc

[iron orchid]

that's what is making me want to go necrolord

I just want to test something other than NF

[tribal marlin]

still necro is like 3% behind atm so

[stoic needle]

Theotar's soothing shade is barely more controllable because it procs when you use a damaging ability instead of whenever it feels like it like thrill seeker does

[limber lion]

Just clearing the raid on heroic, normal and lfr will cap your renown.

Or get to 25-30, which you would just fill with the necessary campaign anyways

[stoic needle]

You'll still get some periods where you get a mastery proc and are forced to move out of it but it'll still be less frequent and less impactful than wasting your once every 2 minutes proc in the dance macabre on council for example

[iron orchid]

Finding groups to do a clean and fast normal run will probably make me insane x)

[split veldt]

makes sense

[iron orchid]

heroic is a piece of cake with my guild, and lfr scares me bruh

[limber lion]

It's not bad with so many people swapping covenants because of the blue post.

[split veldt]

ill probably jsut stick with theo everywhere then and in M+

[limber lion]

lfr is super easy

[split veldt]

to be lazy

[odd heath]

So like, light movement sims would put venthyr closer to NF and necro than pure patchwerk ones

[limber lion]

Like we had 1 death on LFR Sire and that was because the tank "accidentally" jumped off

[split veldt]

we go refined palate and exacting preparation right?

no double potent like fae?

[azure fox]

hello. why do people keep talking about 'Gloomblade' being fixed for sin rogue on 9.0.5? Gloomblade is a sub talent

[mighty owl]

doomblade* legendary

[little moth]

Doomblade

[frail fossil]

so basically if i wanna play sin venthyr still much better for sin than Necro ye ?

[azure fox]

ooooh

makes more sense now lol

😄

[narrow shuttle]

!bis

[gentle gyro]

"much better" might overstate it, it's better

[candid token]

I read the pins, but I keep reading Doomblade and Zoldyck going back and forth, which one should I go for as Venthyr Assassin? Or is it not entirely clear yet?

[split veldt]

doom single target, zold M+

[gentle gyro]

we have no idea yet what reality will look like

doomblade and zoldyck serve different purposes

[candid token]

Ah I see, thanks ^-^

[wide ridge]

how large is the shade

from theotar

[split veldt]

depends on donger size

[wide ridge]

is it like the night fae one that does the flowers on the floor?

[split veldt]

bigger donger bigger shade

[limber lion]

Wtf, Grashaal literally jumps on you on LFR when he does Eruption

wat there's not a single Mortanis group up

how am I supposed to kill the wb for my conduit now

[subtle tundra]

make a group yourself ^^

[manic harness]

Let's do an all rogue normal raid for renown catch up tonight.

[split veldt]

i got my 200 lash from the purple calling

[manic harness]

Bring a lot 2 tanks and 2 healers

Fuck it

Along*

[wide ridge]

same

[split veldt]

hopefully get 213 from alt heroic next week

tempted to gamble it, but im close to my 4th socket

rather get the socket

[paper bloom]

Same

[split veldt]

do we even get anything coolf or doing the veny party shit

the queen conservatory was lame

[stoic needle]

depends on what content you are gonna play sin in

[frail fossil]

raid

[stoic needle]

then yeah venthyr is around 3% better

[opal pagoda]

Venthyr for raid by far

[candid token]

The Ember Court is amazing

[frail fossil]

fml

[stoic needle]

its always cosmetics

[stoic needle]

join us

[frail fossil]

if assa become good yeah i will

[split veldt]

good, i can skip it then, my transmog has already reached over 9000

[stoic needle]

bro what the fuck is this

[trim zinc]

@stoic needle hehehe thats the best skill in that game

[split veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-swanson-parks-and-rec-its-so-beautiful-gif-15644547

[ripe gulch]

where are the calcs @stoic needle

[safe canopy]

time to spend the weekend switching venthyr and getting renown 😑

[ripe gulch]

why do u say venthyr is better by 3%

[limber lion]

Weekend? More like a day

[gentle gyro]

playing through the enite campaign again to get all soulbinds and shit

maaaaan

[safe canopy]

ive swapped like 5 times this expansion through a couple characters. i cnat suffer the full day grind anymore i gotta break it up

[split veldt]

theo for M+ and most raid fights it seems

[stoic needle]

pins

technically its closer to 2.5%

[split veldt]

yeah im talking about 9.05

[stoic needle]

it really depends on the fight. if there's no mechanics that happen ~2 and ~4 minutes into the fight that would force you waste thrill seeker then nadjia is definitely better

[lone pine]

yeah idk where the theo part came from

[split veldt]

they listed like 5 bosses where nadjia would be shit

that's where theo came from

[stoic needle]

its not as simple as theotar is always better than nadjia and vice versa

you have to analyze each fight and see if there are mechanics that will disrupt your uptime when thrill seeker would proc and adjust accordingly

[split veldt]

thankfully lashing is bis for raid and M+, so switching back and forth between nadjia and theo isnt a problem

[stoic needle]

you can just go into every fight on prog with nadjia, and see if your thrill seeker procs when you're off the boss

[topaz saffron]

I'm too damn lazy to switch covenants

[stoic needle]

if it does, switch to theo, if not, stick with nadjia

[split veldt]

ill let warcraft logs tell me when to switch

[topaz saffron]

Otter Soulshape announcement only think ill switch for

[stoic needle]

i wish they'd just make thrill seeker proc after using flag

[stoic needle]

corgi soulshape though

[split veldt]

im gonna miss soulsape, doors is so lame with the cast time

[ripe gulch]

ok

but thats pure st

[violet wasp]

I make a 235 doomblade for pvp w vers+haste is still good for pve?

[split veldt]

i dont want to even put door on my bars tbh lmao

[ripe gulch]

there are no sims for soulbinds still

[cunning basin]

does bonespike synergize with doomblade?

[violet wasp]

for pvp

[ripe gulch]

the sims are pure st

which is not happening this raid tier most of the time

[ionic fox]

SBS does affect Doomblade in PVE

[stoic needle]

i'm working on some more in depth soulbind and legendary comparison sims

for venthyr

[topaz saffron]

Went Kyrian because the owl was cute 🙃

[ionic fox]

Sucks Necro isn't BIS 💔

[stoic needle]

not gonna lie the owl slaves are sus as fuck

[gentle gyro]

fuck yoo-hooo

[opal pagoda]

If u aren't in a top 500 guild the 2% difference wont hurt u too much

[gentle gyro]

but it will matter if you want to optimize your character

[stoic needle]

a race of naturally subservient, kind of unintelligent creatures that only exist to serve you?

[ionic fox]

rank 44 sub rogue so I plan on playing whats best xD

[topaz saffron]

In Lore they get depressed if they cant serve

[gleaming stratus]

What's more optimal tho Necro or Venthyr

[stoic needle]

[gentle gyro]

e.g. i'd feel like i'm sabotaging my guild if i do not get the maximum out of my character that I could

[gleaming stratus]

just seems very conflicted

[stoic needle]

there is no real answer tbh because necro and venthyr just biases you towards AOE or ST

only you can answer which area you want to excel in most

[opal pagoda]

I understand you but then depends on the mindset of your guild

[stoic needle]

none of them is far and away bis

[rough agate]

If we went necro would you beat outlaw though?

Ape

Aoe oops

[stoic needle]

no

[wide ridge]

bruh i lost all my night fae dagger mogs from the raid

[opal pagoda]

The fact that you play sin already beats outlaw

[wide ridge]

thats whack

[stoic needle]

you'll never beat outlaw in aoe just forget about that lol

[rough agate]

Easy decision then for me

[mighty owl]

we're not talking aoe tho

[gentle gyro]

while we're not super tryhard we still progress mythic

[ripe gulch]

?XD

[mighty owl]

necro gets better as soon as you add 1 target

[ripe gulch]

so you cant optimize your spec for aoe

[stoic needle]

if you're really min/maxing you'd just play outlaw for aoe fights and sin on single target

[mighty owl]

idk if it beats venth at 2

[ripe gulch]

because theres another spec better

[mighty owl]

but its gap is closing

[ripe gulch]

ois that right?

[wide ridge]

and which cov would be better in that situation

[stoic needle]

no, just saying that you'll never be ableto beat outlaw on an aoe fight as sin no matter what you do. that's it

[simple wadi]

I think venth still

Personally outlaw would love burst in a raid setting

[stoic needle]

i'm not 100% sure i haven't studied the new outlaw sims hard yet

[ripe gulch]

true, doesnt mean you just go full single target mode and forget about aoe

[split veldt]

yeah but we'll beat them in boss damage

[stoic needle]

but yeah, venthyr gives outlaw pretty decent burst

[stoic needle]

venthyr is still good in aoe though

[manic harness]

Outlaw or Assassination?

[stoic needle]

people think that venthyr is bad in aoe, it's not, for sin or outlaw

[elfin valley]

Just curious on y'all's opinion, as someone who plays sin in raid and outlaw in keys. Which covenant covers my bases the best? Necrolord because of the AoE and decent st?

[ripe gulch]

its not only dmg

[split veldt]

yeah that instant haste with new flag seems pretty good for aoe

[manic harness]

Dude 20% haste is sick

[simple wadi]

And you get that burst while still being able to flurry

[ripe gulch]

bone spike is way better if you micro manage it

[stoic needle]

because it gives you haste for sin, which makes all of your multidotting better, and gives you more autos for blade flurrying with outlaw

[ripe gulch]

im not saying you should go venth or necro

i honestly have no iaea myself

but consider everything

dont be sheep

[manic harness]

I've said it twice and I'll say it twice more

[stoic needle]

what is there to min/max about bone spike though? its just multi dot

use on cd for CP

[opal pagoda]

You're not gonna be doing only sludgefist like fights for the whole xpac

[simple wadi]

I think the real value of sbs is gonna be similar to mfd - quick turnover in cp* spenders and reduced cd time

[wide ridge]

i swapped to venthyr and am renown 16

[manic harness]

Tea parties with Big Tiddy Goth GFs vs Oedipus Complex Live feat. Thrall and his mommy

I know what I'm picking

[rough agate]

@opal pagoda We also will probably be switching a few more times this xpac though

[simple wadi]

Getting 3 cp for a single gcd as outlaw is really nice

[stoic needle]

do you want to have a cape made of fucking daggers

or do you want to have an arm growing out of the side of your head and shoulder

do you want to fly on a badass gargoyle or a stinky giant fly?

[young pebble]

imagine buzzing around on a bloatfly and thinking yah this is my preferred aesthetic

degenerate

[stoic needle]

[manic harness]

[tight ginkgo]

i'm here for the bloatfly aesthetic

[spice spire]

I respect it

[manic harness]

Go play dk then

[brittle pawn]

I'm undead, I kinda like the fly

[spice spire]

Don’t drink the venthyr koolaid

[stoic needle]

@spice spire you're coming back to us eventually stop lying to yourself

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

honestly necro vs venthyr is close enough that it comes down to personal preference. do you want more aoe damage and cheap cp? or do you want more burst, resources and single target damage?

[split veldt]

so we could be seeing a 600 dps increase on tuesday?

[stoic needle]

thats not a question that can be answered by purely "x is bis"

only what you value as a player

[manic harness]

300 or more yeag

Yeah*

[rough agate]

do random heroics give renown?

[split veldt]

looks like 250ish from veny and i simmed doom and it was 350 more

[spice spire]

They can it’s just less likely

[manic harness]

Mixed, yes

[brittle pawn]

Yes from each boss potentially

[manic harness]

Miked*

[rough agate]

ah ok

[spice spire]

Than like an M0

[rough agate]

thanks

[ornate raptor]

If i rejoin for venthyr do i lose Nf directly or untill all quests are done?

[stoic needle]

not until the quests are done

[rough agate]

Just figured id queue while I run around doing the quests

[ornate raptor]

Thanks