assassination

[fleet anchor]

Yeah but Mirror sims are kinda broken

[limber lion]

Unfortunately it was patched in the game 😦

Yeah, it didn't work

It did 11 whole damage after the rotation

[fleet anchor]

Because nobody knows the base AP formula for the pets anymore

[hollow escarp]

I've seen Firedup using Seabreeze in mythic Nathria

[fleet anchor]

And would be kinda hard to test

Mirror was a great trinket

[limber lion]

Yep. I think it still works fine in timewalking dungeons. Haven't tested it out but my friend says that he always has it ready for when he does TW

[hollow escarp]

I have a TW set

5 legendaries

And HoA

[tribal marlin]

unfortunately I always keep useless thing like this

then realise I'm out of space

and dump everything

[hollow escarp]

Need to get some TBC gear for sockets though

[tribal marlin]

and when I want to use it it's gone 😦

[fleet anchor]

I remember all the Legion trinkets were OP at the start of BfA

They had to nerf almost all the Antorus ones after the first week

[hollow escarp]

Drestagath was used in SL arenas as well

[tribal marlin]

oh imagine Nightblooming frond with SnD + infinite Haste from Venthyr

you get it clipped

start doing 600 damage per autos

hahahahah

[limber lion]

Yeah Golganeth was pretty dank.

[fleet anchor]

Moonglaive probably too far behind nowadays but it's still probably around 25k damage per use on 8T or something lol

Which is pretty hilarious for 50 ilevel

[tribal marlin]

I'm doing some quick math about Frond xD

actually it can do some very potent damage it manage to clip

[fleet anchor]

Frond gets capped by the ilevel scaling I think

[tribal marlin]

proc deal 70 damage per autos

so can do up to 700 per auto

if it clip, that's a bunch of damage assuming you have a lot of haste + SnD + daggers

[fleet anchor]

But yeah Moonglaives are really OP for Timewalking

[tribal marlin]

I'm not doing that much tw tho

I wish they add a Shadowland version of Nightblooming Frond

I always loved this trinket xD

well it was a shit a rng show because you basically just top the metter if it clipped and was pretty average if it did not

but it was fun

[fleet anchor]

It was pretty fun

[tribal marlin]

to give context to people reading xD

And it could clip, so that you keep full stack and get 15sec of full stack buff

[drifting cloud]

frond 😩

[wide ridge]

can someone help me real quick? considering i'm using zoldyck as leggo and MA talent, how would my optimar opener look like on a fight with 2 targets on pull, like altimor?

thanks

also night fae

[balmy condor]

2 target with MA

[wide ridge]

so ideally i'd go subterfuge right

[balmy condor]

would probably just do a single target opener and then get dots on the other target

[wide ridge]

hmm taht's what ive been doing and wasn't sure if it was right

ty

[prisma crescent]

I'm sure this has been answered thousands of times but how do you open with MA leggo? None of the guides have an opener for it

[tribal marlin]

Mutilate SnD Mutilate Garrote Rupt

[prisma crescent]

Why not ambush?

[tribal marlin]

Mutilate has a better value than ambush because it give more CP and can proc poison twice

I mean you can use Ambush it doesn't matter

but since it doesn't matter, why just not thinking too much about it 😄

[prisma crescent]

Ah ok, just trying to figure out all the little things before I bring assa to raid

[tribal marlin]

And if you ever equip Doomblade at some point it's very likely that mutilate will be noticably better than ambush also

[oblique flare]

ambush is higher damage, but personally I'd still go for a mut when it comes to a guaranteed crit

as more combo points = bigger ruptures and CTs

[prisma crescent]

Yeah the reasoning behind it makes sense, just seems a bit odd

[raw arrow]

Hey guys , how do I use Raidbots to sim with PTR version

[prisma crescent]

Mutilate SnD Mutilate Garrote Rupt Vendetta Mutilate Sepsis Shiv Envenom

That would be correct right?

[balmy condor]

ptr=1 at the top of an advanced sim

[hollow barn]

Do you play subterfuge I keys with MA?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hollow barn]

Is the opener you posted just for st?

[balmy condor]

which

[hollow barn]

Mut snd mut ect

Cus if you have 3+ targets aren’t you better off applying Garrote to them all

[balmy condor]

yes

he was playing MA tho

the talent

[hollow barn]

OH

that makes a lot more sense

[tame lake]

should I upgrade both daggers at next pvp tier or mh and something else first

[balmy condor]

MH first and then probably other stuff

but you can use droptimizer for that

[misty holly]

Same 😦

[mortal scaffold]

does garrote cast with sepsis buff apply silence

[balmy condor]

yes

[dark hollow]

how are y'all cancelling sepsis to avoid the delay when the dot expires?

[rigid wyvern]

wut?

[balmy condor]

what?

[pulsar sluice]

what pillars do we cast vendetta on

[sour wraith]

depends on when your bloodlust is

[pulsar sluice]

pillar 3

[sour wraith]

then 1/3

[dark hollow]

nevermind. total brain death on my part. nevermind. 🙂

[prisma crescent]

Any here do log reviews? Did a test run with Assassination on M Shriek and it didn't go very well

[balmy condor]

never have looked at a log in my life

[ionic fox]

What was the transmog trick to make your dagers into sword tmog?

[strange python]

I heard whispyr doesnt look at logs or sim his character

[keen remnant]

which metric we look? ilvl % or just parse % ? can someone explain the reasoning ?

[balmy condor]

ilvl % sucks because there's not enough people in the bracket to make an accurate assessment

parse % is a good quick check, but outside of like "oh I parsed grey/green, that's kinda bad" or "oh I parsed purple/orange, that's pretty good", it doesn't mean much either

especially on first kills of the boss

[keen remnant]

I see, makes sense

66 parses with my ilvl

[devout lantern]

Mark of the Master Assassin now only affects auto-attack and Rogue abilities’ critical strike chance. < this nerf affects bleeds?

[balmy condor]

no

[devout lantern]

like garrot

what is the point of this neft so?

[balmy condor]

it removes trinkets and necrotic wake weapons

[devout lantern]

ah

[balmy condor]

mostly aimed at necrotic wake

[devout lantern]

and you whisp

playing to m+ with zoldyck

?

[balmy condor]

yes

[devout lantern]

in lower's works?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[devout lantern]

like 14-15

prefeer more then MA?

[balmy condor]

I don't personally notice much of a difference between the two

[devout lantern]

whats is your rotation with zoldyjck?

just put bleed in all?

without spam envenom?

[balmy condor]

yes

the rotation does not change

[fleet whale]

memory of past sins vs skulker's

what should i use?

[dense hamlet]

i think memory is better

for me its like 0.3%

[fleet whale]

yeah, and i like that it's a 2 min cd

[dense hamlet]

atleast it dosent teleport u to random places and dosent hit random shit

[fleet whale]

and won't have any of the jank of skulker's

[stoic needle]

Memory > skulker's

All my homies hate skulkers

[dense hamlet]

i like drest

[mortal scaffold]

i just tested this out. it looks like garrote is applying the silence but isnt getting the 40% damage bonus?

[dense hamlet]

yeah

it does silence

[mortal scaffold]

yes but shouldnt it also be getting the subterfuge bonus

[balmy condor]

no

[dense hamlet]

well no

[balmy condor]

it shouldn't

[mortal scaffold]

why

[dense hamlet]

its not in the window of subter so

and its not from stealthj

[balmy condor]

because sepsis doesn't give the combat effects of stealth

it allows the use of a stealth ability

it shouldn't even be silencing

[dense hamlet]

yeah

but it is

so its a +

and it dosent go on cd or does it? if u use the sepsis proc and u have another garrote

[mortal scaffold]

i figure if its applying silence it should apply the damage mod

since theyre both "from stealth"

[dense hamlet]

i dont rly remember the interaction

well

i think sepsis is doing some weird stuff its like supposed to give u a stealth ability

but its giving u the silence effect

but not the dmg

[balmy condor]

correct

the silence is a bug

[dense hamlet]

yeah

[mortal scaffold]

how can we be so sure

[balmy condor]

because the ability doesn't give the combat effects of stealth

[mortal scaffold]

whats the diff

so it just gives me... a cheap shot or an ambush? zzzz

[dense hamlet]

well ambush dosent matter even i dont think

cuz it still needs cp to use

i mean energy

so its not even free

[mortal scaffold]

they shoulda let it reset the cd of vanish imo

[dense hamlet]

sure

[tame lake]

you can garrote without putting it on cd

[dense hamlet]

yeah u get a extra garrote so thats also a thing

[tame lake]

I read you can garrote into cheap shot off of sepsis but idk if that is true

like garrote doesn't use the proc or something

[fresh belfry]

you can. garrote doesn't consume sepsis buff, even after the silence effect, for some weird reason

[balmy condor]

(garrote isn't a stealth ability, and as such, will not use the buff)

[fresh belfry]

maybe not that weird of a reason lol

[stoic needle]

#MakeSepsisVanishAgain

[dense hamlet]

#venthyrgangsoon

[spice spire]

[tacit forum]

[dense hamlet]

[stoic needle]

So I'm getting a 3 button usb foot pedal

I have a single button one now that I have push to talk bound to

What should I bind to the others? Vanish, vendetta, ?

MFD?

Kidney?

Gouge would be lit if I played outlul

[dense hamlet]

what

bindit to tirnkets

idk

[stoic needle]

Trinkets isn't a bad idea

Maybe a modifier like left alt or ctrlw

[dense hamlet]

idk i feel like it would be weird to use

[stoic needle]

It's not

Your feet aren't doing anything when you're gaming anyway. It's fine for things you don't have to press rapidly or super frequently

[dense hamlet]

yeah sure it can be very usefull

[spice spire]

Bind mutilate to one

Ez

[misty holly]

Bind Mutilate to one and FoK to the other and just start playing the Dyer's Eve bass drum part during keys

[plain jewel]

did they do anything to sin rogue. im simming much higher with MA now. last week, they were withing like 20dps

[balmy condor]

yes

[plain jewel]

subterfuge/na

[balmy condor]

an APL change

[plain jewel]

ah

so where would i fit sepsis in the MA opener

[drifting cloud]

oh its a nf change only?

[plain jewel]

Mutilate-Slice and Dice-Mutilate-Garrote-Rupture-Vendetta-Shiv

been using this. not sure if sepsis supposed to be used somewhere

[tacit forum]

Sepsis right before shiv no?

[north basin]

Shiv sepsis or sepsis shiv and then going into 4 sec ma window

[balmy condor]

same as before, the APL change syncs sepsis with vendetta

so that means that the bonk from sepsis is in the MA window naturally

[plain jewel]

should i be delaying sepsis for vendetta at all?

[balmy condor]

if you're not going to miss a cast of sepsis because of it, you should always sync them

this is the gain

followed by a sepsis cast at 3:37 and then this

(this fight in particular is 5:36 long, which allows for that sync to happen)

[north basin]

Need to squeeze 3 envenoms into the ma window i suppose

With all buffs and dots

[balmy condor]

3 envenoms into an MA window

how would you suggest that

[north basin]

Like all top sin logs doing

Going into the Ma with 4 cp already

[balmy condor]

sure

and then they have 3 seconds of crit, 4 if we're talking about the legendary, so they envenom, mutilate, envenom, mutilate

where's the third

[north basin]

Mfd

I think mfd musthave with ma rightnow ?

[balmy condor]

I'm sorry run that by me again

we're talking single target?

[north basin]

Y

These 7300 sludge assa logs

Doing it

Ma - envenom -muti - envenom-mfd- envenom

[balmy condor]

oh so we're not talking single target, we're talking specifically cheesing sludge

[north basin]

Its worse outside sludge scenario?

[balmy condor]

much

[north basin]

U mean

Oh.

[balmy condor]

I'd actually go so far as to say that playing the EP/NS/MFD stuff on sludge is the weird build here

[drifting cloud]

ep ._.

[balmy condor]

I'm sure it can work if you're putting all your eggs into the pillar basket

it'll be fine

but you can't make me suggest that

[north basin]

But its almost doing same spike damage as boomkings

[balmy condor]

yes

if we measure dps in 15 second burst

I'm sure it's insane

[drifting cloud]

duskwalkers next week just believe

[north basin]

I thought it should outweight other parts of the fight

Like fire mage style with combust

Doing 90%of dps in 5% of fight

[balmy condor]

it could

but it probably doesn't

[drifting cloud]

its still r1 whispyr dont be a hater

[balmy condor]

yeah

it is rank 1

[drifting cloud]

meta setter for all those 30 logs

[balmy condor]

I'll give it that

[drifting cloud]

and most important part

7.3k is higher than r1 outlaw!

[north basin]

Maybe apl not so optimized here ?)

[candid token]

Sorry if the question has been asked a couple o' times, but is Assassin lookin' to surpass Outlaw/Sub in any way next patch?

[stoic needle]

Outlaw is dogshit on sludgefist so that's not hard

In the next patch sin is looking to have better st dps than both

[candid token]

cool cool, thanks ^-^

[balmy condor]

APL's aren't written for individual fights

[north basin]

Its the downside here )

Maybe on concrete sludge this is better

Ma+mfd

But we dont have many logs to compare..

And it is asking too much for apl writers to do it specifically for sludge i suppose)

[drifting cloud]

youre more than welcome to do it

[north basin]

Iam on more practical side of the theorycrafters spectrum

[balmy condor]

that's one way to say it

[plain jewel]

for cleave fights, im assuming subterfuge is better? or is MA damage just better

[stoic needle]

Subterfuge is bis as soon as there's more than one target

A subt garotte is basically a 5cp rupture in terms of damage without the CP requirement

[buoyant mauve]

I just crafted ma bracer for pvp, I think I'll try this out next week

even got a skulker and vessel, both nm though

[severe relic]

But they aren’t affected by MA anymore iirc

[buoyant mauve]

they should still do more dmg to sludgefist though, right?

[drifting cloud]

theyre still affected by ma until .5

and yeah sludge just takes more dmg, ofc includes trinkets

[plain jewel]

would i save vanish to pad on inerva adds with subterfuge lol

[stoic needle]

If you vanish on cd it should naturally line up with one of the add phases

[gentle gyro]

another week without weapon in the vault

[rocky ruin]

What leggo you guys gonna craft for 9.05 doomblade or dashing?

[strange python]

I was a stygia boy today

[dense walrus]

assassination rogue for raiding, stats on legendary should be Haste Crit, correct?

[gentle gyro]

Haste vers

[dense walrus]

Okay thank you

[shy dust]

Sim it

I used crit haste

[gentle gyro]

Ye obviously

[dense walrus]

I am doing stat sim right now just wanted to check in with yall

[shy dust]

I think most I’ve heard at least use crit haste

[north pewter]

My Sim was haste vers. Def sim

[dense walrus]

Mine is showing Crit 1.09, Haste 1.03 at the moment

My gear is fairly low still, only 186

[shy dust]

Don’t use stat weights

You can sim legendaries in top gear

You use the tool to add legos at x ilvl with which stats you choose

[dense walrus]

Okay, so use the blank legendary and input stats

got it ill do that, thanks

Appreciate the help, came out to Crit/Haste for me.

Is there a rare or treasure that gives a dagger that im missing? My offhand is 146 still zzzzz

Or I suppose, I should just be a real rogue and pvp ey?

[rocky ruin]

Is nightly actual up to date with the ptr info?

[dense seal]

pickpocketing in revendreth can get you like a 174 dagger

[dense walrus]

oh damn i heard you can get a sword from it but didnt know about a dagger

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/a4KFq1A.png
I just want to replace this shit man

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/BaO2wWx.png

POG

[gentle gyro]

holy smokes

[stoic needle]

Hot damn

[stoic needle]

Do some rbgs

[tribal marlin]

9.0.5 dps will be spicy xD

[strange python]

should i get doomblade on gloves or shoulders

[rocky ruin]

that item what is worse than the other

shoulders give mor stats i think

[dark swift]

Is there a haste cap for assa or do you generally go as much haste as possible?

[strange python]

thank you @rocky ruin

[raven egret]

you equip what the sim says

ignore stats

haste cap is higher than what you could possibly equip rn

[iron orchid]

Where are your dungeon slots man ? x)

[ornate raptor]

Show off , 233 wep token. 😂 if only i got some decent stuff out of the stupid vault.

Whats stats should i use for Doomblade? Vers/haste or crit/haste ? Guess il sim it first

[iron orchid]

Probably sim it first, both options should be good and the result may depend on the rest of your gear and the talents you use

[strange python]

all done upgrading my zoldyk to max rank

Why do you open from stealth with Mutilate and not Ambush, when using the Master Assassin talent? Does ambush not do more dmg?

[iron orchid]

You will generate 1 more cp with a crit mutilate, and may apply 2* your poisons

[strange python]

Ahh okay, that makes sense 🙂

What is the best opener with Master Assassin btw?

[dapper flint]

If i switch to Venth when 9.0.5 comes - whats the fastest way of getting 200 flag conduit? Kill world boss and pray i guess?

[iron orchid]

probably Mut potion SnD mut rupture, mut till 4/5 cp, vendetta shiv vanish envenom mut envenom

[iron orchid]

Exactly, you could also just do callings, but I ain't sure it will get you the 200 conduit

[dapper flint]

well thats sad, ty

[rocky ruin]

callings will get too 200

i got as green used venari conduit push to 157 and the calling gave the 200 version of it

[dapper flint]

venari push works on it? i got everything to 213+ and covenant conduit still 200 (but i guess because thats a cap?)

[arctic cloud]

I done the first quest to swap cov's whats the waiting time for the next one?

[ornate raptor]

I am still deciding the swap or not

[normal mist]

1 quest per week, 2 quests total

Usually one would want to do the first quest before the reset and the second one after

[arctic cloud]

I didnt have the option, at the rate i might as well stay Venthyr

[normal mist]

The option? Explain please

[arctic cloud]

I didnt have the choice to swap last week

or start the quest should i say

[normal mist]

Did you talk to the venthyr guy last week?

Oh wait

You are changing out of venthyr

[arctic cloud]

Yeh i might as well just stay venthyr for 9.0.5

[normal mist]

They say it is q good bet! I'm nf for pvp reasons tho

But started as venthyr, till renown 31/32 I believe

[sturdy shale]

DAuntless Duelist or Potency Conduit?

[slow marsh]

DD

[hollow barn]

Do your conduits reset of you swap cov?

[rigid tartan]

any #1 logs inc? 😮

[glossy turret]

No all the conduits remains the same but each covenant has 1 covenant based conduits which will be low ilvl cause you couldn’t have learn it before

[rigid tartan]

my assa sims almost 6.2k on patchwerk 5 minutes now and i have 220 weapon

[hollow barn]

Yeah ty

[rigid tartan]

sub is about 6.3k and outlaw also 6.25k or so

[weary marten]

which stats are you using on zoldyck legs for assa ?

haste + crit ?

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/VGcpOTa.png

i love this power

you can just skip everything and do the endboss

[gentle gyro]

haste / crit or haste / vers

if you want the best answer for you, sim it

i have haste crit, other have haste vers

[tribal marlin]

there was diablo PTR so I said fuck M+ this weekxD

[iron orchid]

Ok I get that

[gentle gyro]

@stoic needle i'm not much of a pvp person when it comes to rogue, ironic as it is

not much of a pvper in general, but rogue pvp never clicked for me

i'd attribute it to it being really difficult to be good at

being 1.8k level as holy pala or disc priest is pretty

but no chance i get there as rogue

https://i.imgur.com/GErfj25.png

[subtle tundra]

play rogue mage

[gentle gyro]

this should illustrate my interest in pvp

[subtle tundra]

watch a couple of vids of gameplay to get the basics and just play if you really want the gear

[gentle gyro]

if it wasn't so expensive and against my views i wouldve bought a boost long ago

but fuck that noise

on a different note, is there a new follower in torghast this week?

cause if so i missed him

nvm google says no

also I think pvp gear should be useless for pve but who am

[ornate raptor]

If u want to get pvp gear and rating. Rbgs is the way to go

[shy axle]

anyone already planning to switch to venthyr with the patch ( ofc it could change) ? I am already a little bit hyped, its just a cool ability now

[vocal karma]

Is it worth to upgrade MA to 235 (currently my only legendary at 210) or should I craft a second one for raiding (Zoldyck/Dashing/Doomblade, not yet decided)? Doing all content, want to start to get in HC raiding, a bit higher keys etc

[gentle gyro]

MA ain't a bad choice

but it's also not optimal

[placid dawn]

craft zoldyck or something for raiding

the dps difference between a 190 and 235 leggo is not that high

there is a rogue doing 23 keys with a 190 MA ring so, you should be fine

[vocal karma]

Thx

[thorn dove]

at how many mobs do you use crimson tempest over envenom?

[gentle gyro]

depends on how long they live, but 3 already make it technically worth it

only if they eat the full dot though

[thorn dove]

Cheers and at how many mobs is it not worth dotting garrote and rupture?

[north basin]

how much 233 wep gives dps compared to 220?

i dont know if i need to start envy or meh

@tribal marlin

[thorn dove]

@north basin wep DPS is usually 15 or more per item level

[north basin]

200 dps seems yuuge

[weary marten]

isn't it weird that with such low haste, it doesn't want to switch my gems and enchants to haste ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/36en3mnuY3rq4jhNnCwF7K

oh my bad the "replace existing blabla" was not checked anymore for some reason

[thorn dove]

Yup, weapon upgrades are usually always our biggest even if it's a couple of item levels

[tribal marlin]

was ~1.4% from 226 to 233

so from 220 it's actually quite big

[north basin]

and in pure numbers for u?

200 dps?

[tribal marlin]

nah, maybe 80

[errant delta]

any tips for better parses on h sire ?

[cloud reef]

do more damage

[errant delta]

like should i focus more on doting adds and sword and less on dany

[cloud reef]

Sword and denatrius share health

so you want to dot both up where possible

and sure dotting adds with also increase your dps

and give you more energy

[neon rampart]

Hello there ! Old progress player re-starting the game, just hitted 60 yesterday and got to choose my covenant today. A friend of mine told me that assasination is going to make a huge comeback in few weeks with 9.0.5 with the Venthyr Covenant. Actually Fae / Kyrians are the best but i need to stuff me ! What covenant do you suggest me to pick ?

Isn't that better to pick venthyr and prepare 9.0.5 if i want to go raid mythic later ?

[normal mist]

Do you also want to pvp?

[neon rampart]

Actually not really, but it seems that the best way to improve my gear now (im 168 ilvl 😦 ) is pvp right ? 😦

[normal mist]

If yes, night fae is your best option since it is good in both situations. Kyrian is also amazing for night elves.

[neon rampart]

I'm night elf btw

[normal mist]

If not, nfae or venthyr are quite alright

[neon rampart]

but venthyr will be better than fae or kyrian in 9.0.5 ?

[normal mist]

If the dmg from flag remains, I believe so

But @balmy condor might be a better person to ask to

You can always check the pins aswell

[prime skiff]

what do you guys think about removing of rank 2 slice and dice , rn without slice and dice energy regen feels so slow , will Venomous Wounds buff be able to make up for that 10% energy regen loss?

[neon rampart]

waiting for his answer then thanks m8

[gray smelt]

They roughly balance out on ST, but the VW buff will help more on multi target due to having more bleeds out.

[normal mist]

It highly depends on your haste% aswell. I'm playing at 26% and it is quite alright. The removal of t2 but addition of cut the chase IMO is super good

Just the fact we are not wasting cp on SnD... So good

[gray smelt]

Yeah, changing those excess SnD casts into Envenom casts certainly feels a lot better.

[tribal marlin]

The change is neutral regardless of your haste value.

SnD R2 give 10% increase energy regen (base + haste) so you get basically 1xHaste energy per second.
VW is 2 energy every (2/haste) sec so it's equal to 2xHaste every 2sec which is 1xHaste per second.

The change is completly neutral at any level of haste.

[placid cobalt]

Sorry guys havent been around in a while, was wondering if assa is the go to spec in 9.0.5 with thr changes to snd

[tribal marlin]

for ST probably

Nothing is definitive but the patch is now in a release candidate state and that mean they won't do further balance change, most likely focusing only on bug fixes

[digital zodiac]

hey all, how are you guys finding assass after the change? are you able to compete in raids much more now?

[ornate raptor]

Its difficult to choose between staying NF or heading back to Venthyr

Double feelings

[tribal marlin]

I deffo don't want to swap convenant xD

[wind nacelle]

With the new doomblade leggo, providing it stays the way it is, do we wait between muti’s or just spam back to back if you actually have the energy for it (the few times it happens)

[ornate raptor]

I feel ya haha

[tribal marlin]

you spam this dot work like ignite

it is dynamic in a way that you always get +45% damage from every single mutilate

(well +31.5% because of armor bug rn ...)

[ornate dawn]

Got 226 anima this morning, sims suggest a marginal increase using this + a 220 phial, (I was using 220 phial an 220 stone legion)

Downside is - Im losing almost 3% vers from not using stone legion think its worth?

[stoic needle]

If the sims say it's worth, use it. Stone legion is a pretty meh trinket

Anima winds is really good in keys

[ornate dawn]

This is without the trinket stat wise

[ornate dawn]

Yeah will be running it in keys 100%

[stoic needle]

The stats don't really matter tbh

I got 226 ooze and had 220 stone legion and 213 past sins. The sims say that they are exactly the same dps, so I run ooze always and past sins in raids/tyrannical and stone legion on fortified

I did a quick sim and stone legion added about as much damage to all of my abilities as past sins did over the course of the sim which was interesting

But I think if you have several people with past sins I feel like it would be better

[ornate dawn]

Probably quite similar then in terms of bonus dmg, vs flat % dmg from increased vers

[stoic needle]

True

Maybe I'll just run legion all the time so I don't have to think about trinkets lol

[ornate dawn]

I mean that is the plus side 😄

[crimson palm]

you need 34% mastery

[tribal marlin]

no it's 34% crit

[oblique flare]

34% vers

[stoic needle]

34% haste tho

[ornate dawn]

If only

[toxic pollen]

Rogues of the world, can Evasion/Cloak be used to cheese huntsman sinseekers on mythic?

[upbeat umbra]

I know you can cloak the dot it leaves behind.

[ornate dawn]

It's physical dmg tho isnt it

[upbeat umbra]

I'm not sure but I know I've cloaked it off before to save the healer manaz.

[ornate dawn]

The dot is shadow dmg so probably yes, but the initial hit is physical

[upbeat umbra]

Yea I haven't tried to evasion it.

[ornate dawn]

Id guess you could spec into elusiveness if the 30% reduction helps

[upbeat umbra]

It was really only a problem at the start of the tier when everyone was under geared.

[ornate dawn]

If you die just blame the healers

[gentle gyro]

the bolt is considered AoE already, no?

[simple kettle]

U cant dodge the dmg but: if u have cheat death u can survive (use cloak to not get the dot). If u dont have cheat death use feint and cloak u should survive

[toxic pollen]

gotcha

so we cant use them to cheese the soak

aight, thats all I wanted to know

Goodbye, rogues of the world

#Shaman4Lyfe

[ornate dawn]

Git outta here shaman

[gentle gyro]

wait, you can soak it with feint and live ?

[stoic needle]

No

[ornate dawn]

lol no

[stoic needle]

Feint and evasion don't work on sinseeker

[cerulean violet]

Does someone know what is the value of PI on Sin Rogue, compared to other classes, in execute phase with Vendetta + Lust ?

[iron orchid]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iSPx6YGzPYa3pgB5WF81bL

[cerulean violet]

I can't find such a specific situation anywhere, so I someone can please help me I'd be more than grateful 🙂

[iron orchid]

Still no weapon from vault

But i was able to buy wrists today, and the helmet from vault was a good upgrade

[gentle gyro]

would korayn be better for denthrius than niya?

[ornate dawn]

Grabbed this from our discord, see if there's anything here that would help https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/113kqcqy9ai37c8EBUJK-sWYciqQ9Tb7ctmCy_boDKdg/edit#gid=0

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/de41ad0e78d270750faa56109d29a1ee
I love to see it

[north basin]

mythic+?

[limber lion]

Yeah, +16 SD

[north basin]

xDDD

[limber lion]

Tried MA lege for the first time in M+ and it slaps on bosses

[north basin]

post ur setup of talents)

[limber lion]

I used:
EP - Subterfuge - Vigor - Cheat Death - Iron Wire - Alacrity - Crimson Tempest

[tribal marlin]

It's good but still better on hunters and DK during aotd

[cerulean violet]

I got this one too, but it only shows PI values over a whole length fight not only sub 30 %

[cerulean violet]

Thanks !

[tribal marlin]

however I expect hunter to be pretty average next tier, and the PI value of hunter rely on WS being bugged

[north basin]

have log? i wana try my first m+ as assa today too. didnt touch it for ages

so need to know what to do vs 3-5 adds

[pseudo hamlet]

had the same reaction... on the same key... but it was SD +16 last week(timed tyra, which made is really pain in the ass). The >2k r.io DH tank was like "lmao that's assa rog" and at the end he was like "ok, that was nice". 😄

[tribal marlin]

with WS being fixed in 9.0.5 it's possible that it's possible that assa rogue become a very good PI target (outside of AotD dk once every 4mn)

[stoic needle]

Isn't army 8 min?

[tribal marlin]

haha of course not

You have a talent that reduce it by 5sec for every DC you fire

[stoic needle]

What the fuck lmao

[tribal marlin]

it's ~4mn

[spice spire]

One day brother. One fucking day, we’ll get it.

223 ToP ring was nice this week.
But I’d literally murder for a dagger at this point

[tribal marlin]

tbh if aotd was 8mn flat cooldown, UH would be pretty average dps wise

I think the exact CD is a bit lower than 4mn, like 3:45 but they usually delay it to sync with PI

[stoic needle]

You want to keep up 3 garottes and 2-3 Ruptures, maintain ct, and envenom in the extra time you have. You only fok on 4+ targets

[limber lion]

Uhm, I'm not 100% sure if I logged it or not. Let me check.

But yeah, pretty much what Oshosi said.

And use cooldowns on trash as well, don't just save them for bosses.

[north basin]

3 garrotes and 3 ruptures i feel like i wont be able to envenom and pay attention to surroundings and mechanics

lewl

[stoic needle]

Oh yes, always CDs on CD

[limber lion]

So many people save their vendetta/vanish/sepsis for bosses when there's like 6 minutes of trash on the way to the boss

[north basin]

like tab swap tab swap tab swap

[stoic needle]

If it's up, use it

[limber lion]

😄 but that's pretty much the gameplay for assa tbh. Constantly swapping targets

[stoic needle]

Yeah env is my least used finisher in m+

[north basin]

and inthe middle u need to stun interupt and blind

ohh

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/b47cf639f598d8b545f368802e6bb73d
Envenom #8

kek

[stoic needle]

As packs get down to fewer enemies you get to do one or two but not much when there's a lot up

[north basin]

and crimson tempest on cd?

too

[stoic needle]

Maintain it like you would Rupture

So reuse it in pandemic

[limber lion]

Yeah, CT doesn't have a cd. Just please don't spam it

[north basin]

ok. btw its niya with burrs i suppose in m+?

[limber lion]

Maintaining garrotes/ruptures is so much more important

[stoic needle]

If it's a large pack you might have to use it twice to get everything dotted

[spice spire]

Herbs

[limber lion]

I use Niya with Herbs when I run MA

[spice spire]

Or korayn

[north basin]

kk

[limber lion]

Yeah, Korayn if you use Zoldyck

[stoic needle]

Korayn first strike on fortified, Niya herbs on tyrr

[hot flume]

What do you mean by WS ?

[tribal marlin]

Wild Spirit

[north basin]

wait how herbs interact with me? i missed it

[limber lion]

I just run herbs+ma both weeks tbh.

[tribal marlin]

don't try, just be aware that we have maximum uptime xD

[stoic needle]

Wild spirits double triggers for aimed shots which gives hunters a lot more burst. This will be fixed in 9.0.5 and they will lose a lot of their damage

[limber lion]

65% uptime on Herbs. Pog

[hot flume]

Didn't know it was bugged. But with monk getting benefits from bugs, hunters too, meanwhile our bugs bring us to the ground xD

[north basin]

ouh

[stoic needle]

First strike is so amazing for sin

With zold

I don't really use MA in keys but it's fine I guess

[limber lion]

Yeah, people have their doubts because Assa is so rare nowadays and often regarded as a bad spec. But when 9.0.5 comes, we'll rise from the ashes so all the mainstream dudes know about us as well :--)

[kindred imp]

Does anyone know where Lethal Poison conduit drops more often? Looking for ilvl 200 one

[limber lion]

MA is probably better now, give it a shot.

[kindred imp]

I just did sin on my rogue on both 2-3 bosses in CN and 2 keys, was perfectly fine....better then sub lol

[stoic needle]

Pvp vendor for 200 conquest

[kindred imp]

ok ta

[limber lion]

Whispyr said that he runs MA as well :--)

[stoic needle]

Mine is vers/mastery and only 210... I feel like I'd need to upgrade it or recraft it for it to be worth using over 235 zold

[north basin]

i was asked in raid btw last week, why iam not in outlaw and playing worst spec in the game. said its the new meta and logs doesnt show it yet xD

[limber lion]

My MA is 190 crit/vers.

Not sure if I wanna keep MA at 190, get Doomblade to 235 then get a new MA with Haste/Crit or Haste/Vers and up that.

[stoic needle]

Lol fair

[limber lion]

I feel like it's a bit of a waste upgrading crit/vers MA.

I made it for Sub mainly and now it's meh

[stoic needle]

Yeah I don't want to upgrade this ma anymore

235 haste/crit or haste/vers ring would be ideal

But I'd want to max doomblade and craft duskwalkers before upgrading MA

[limber lion]

Probably same.

[strange python]

is there any special play in cleave/AoE opener when running MA on Sin in keys? or the opener basically stays the same with garroting/CT/rupture? Also what's the play with Vanish? Use it to spread 3 empowered garrotes anyway?

[stoic needle]

Yes and yes

[sick scarab]

mm i dunno what to craft.. dashing or doomblade..

gonna wait patch release i think

[limber lion]

Yeah, I would wait for the patch.

[sick scarab]

the thing is i got zoldyck on feet so

dashing are feet also

tempting lol

[stoic needle]

See this is why I tell people to go zoldyck legs

If/when we get 2 legendaries you're gonna be stuck with zoldyck feet and dashing cape

Very unpoggers

[north basin]

i have to take recuperator for herbs to work ye?

[spice spire]

Did, in this discord we Stan doomblade

[spice spire]

You do not.

[north basin]

so how does it proc

[subtle kiln]

slice and dice

[spice spire]

The way mystler explains it is that by just owning recuperator, every 2s or so in SnD, you created a heal event. If it’s not equipped, this event equals 0 and still counts as a heal to proc herbs

Same with soothing darkness every second in stealth

That’s by owning them

All equipping recuperator does is change the 0 to x or whatever your health is

It’s really REALLY silly logic

[north basin]

oh thats great news then. how the fuck i missed it

[spice spire]

I learned this yesterday, myself. So don’t feel too bad

It has poor verbiage as well

[north basin]

god bless these bugs

its ultra for sin i suppose.

its already on sims?

nightly or

[narrow meteor]

What's Herbs ?

[north basin]

nothing. u didnt see nothing

[stoic needle]

Herbs has been this way since beta

And has been implemented that way in raidbots also since beta

Generally you'd want to use herbs in m+ or aoe encounters, especially when you're using MA. It's like a middle ground between burrs(strong st, zero aoe) and first strike (strong aoe, limited ST)

[narrow meteor]

Oh ok it's a soulbind

[stoic needle]

For me it sims over 40dps better than burrs on dslice, but only 16 dps lower on patchwerk. I don't remember what it is compared to first strike but you can just sim it to be sure

First strike should outsim it in dslice but on tyrannical first strike loses value because the bosses live so fucking long

[strange python]

Yall saying MA talent or lege

[stoic needle]

Legendary. You never use MA talent in aoe or in keys

[strange python]

Roger

[spice spire]

But the master assassin fan of knives/hidden blades combination is GIGA

That’s not serious, please don’t do that rn

[wary ice]

its serious once every 40s or whatever

:^)

[spice spire]

U right

Don’t think you’ll time that key tho chief

[tacit forum]

How many possibilities would rogue get if they make sepsis to reset vanish CD.

[lilac sparrow]

doomblade still bugged in ptr?

[gleaming eagle]

korayn sim more than niya burr ?

[wary ice]

Possibilities of what? Vanish usage?

[stoic needle]

On dungeon Slice

[stoic needle]

9 subterfuge garottes

[wary ice]

TFW when still target capped :^(

[stoic needle]

[wary ice]

rogues out here earning an honest living while mages just press fire strike

[stoic needle]

It's honestly bullshit that sepsis doesn't give stealth benefits

[icy crater]

mages are actually unethical, along with warlocks

[stoic needle]

Give us subterfuge mid combat god damnit

[wary ice]

if we're being honest sepsis is a poorly thought out ability

[icy crater]

Swap for kingsbane pls

[stoic needle]

No I don't want to be night fae to have kingsbane

[wary ice]

this

Still giv kingsbane though plz we have plent of talent space

[sleek otter]

Replace poison bomb with bane?

[wary ice]

venom rush

KB should compete with Exsang

Exsang should do something

PB should do something

[rustic thunder]

do u think assa’s gonna pop off in 9.1? even without many changes

[subtle tundra]

9.1 is far away ^^

[wary ice]

Assa's honestly poppin rn

[north basin]

mid june, we have time to practice )

[wary ice]

ITs as good as the other specs

[sleek otter]

Im honestly so excited for the venthyr changes and doomblade changes

its gonna be so fun

[toxic tusk]

Is Kyrian going by the wayside?

[sleek otter]

Kyrian is still really decent, just the others are better. just play what you like tbh

the differences are actually so minimal

[stoic needle]

[sleek otter]

see, very minimal

[stoic needle]

It's going to be different in 9.0.5

[icy crater]

NECR L RD

[stoic needle]

Nadjia + theotar will be 1% better than the others

[sleek otter]

still not that significant tbh

[stoic needle]

Check the pins

True

[sleek otter]

not enuf to cause him to reroll from kyrian

[timber gale]

is it normal for us to have some periods of time, like gcds where we can't really do anything

or does that mean i've made a terrible mistake

[sleek otter]

in pvp or pve @timber gale ?

[timber gale]

pve - it's usually a bit after I've used vendetta and dumped the extra energy from that in ST that i notice it most

[sleek otter]

Usually you wanna maintain your bleeds and slice and dice and garrote, so most of the time u usually have something to do, but if u have downtime where everything is up, just try to use it on extra envenoms, using shiv off cd and using sepsis off cd as well

[timber gale]

oh no sorry i mean GCD's where like, I don't have enough energy to use even a mutilate

[icy crater]

yes thats normal

[timber gale]

it's usually one at a time, not a full deadzone

[sleek otter]

Oh I see, yea thats normal

[timber gale]

okay! my main is frost dk where usually not having runes or RP is sort of a failure of balancing

[sleek otter]

gets better with haste

[icy crater]

My main alt is a frost dk but I only pvp with it

[timber gale]

yeah i recently went down to 15% haste to get 24% crit

[stoic needle]

It doesn't really go away until very high levels of haste

[icy crater]

Just sim using top gear, higher ilvl 99% is better

secondaries don't matter much

[timber gale]

kk, and how often do y'all find that you use combo points at 4 instead of 5

for things like rupture, envenom

[stoic needle]

Very frequently

[timber gale]

i think sometimes I'm using a mut at 4 and wasting a crit's worth of combo points

[sleek otter]

just depends on where my combo points are at usually

[stoic needle]

Yeah never mut at 4

Just finish at 4 unless you can garotte or shiv

[sleek otter]

exactly

[stoic needle]

Venthyr deeper strat is gonna be fun next patch

The biggest envenoms

[gentle gyro]

you saw nothing

[sleek otter]

oh I cant wait @stoic needle :DDD

[timber gale]

and last Q, in stuff like M+ (i use subt) i'll garrote 3-4 times, fok -> CT to get bleeds running on everyone - I don't need to SnD here right? bc my energy regen from the poisons/bleeds is usually covering me, so I want to be spending gcds on applying more ruptures on targets/envenoming main target

[stoic needle]

Currently you want to SND at some point if it's 5 or less targets

6 or more SND isn't needed

[gentle gyro]

10% energy regen is no joke, even multitarget

[stoic needle]

In 9.0.5 it might be even less required

Because SnD won't give energy anymore

Thank God

[gentle gyro]

i also would like to re-pose a question no one answered earlier, should I go korayn for denathrius

or is it simply not worth due to p3 importance

[stoic needle]

No

[timber gale]

going from like, omega cleave class to sin means I'm just trying to learn ways to best optimize on multi target so I'm not deadweight on non-bosses

[icy crater]

p3 is giga important

[gentle gyro]

cause 10% more damage all fight except p3 sounds nice

[icy crater]

its literally useless

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's not worth it

[icy crater]

The only way I'd say do that

is if you haven't gotten to p3 and you're progging

then when you get to p3 switch

[gentle gyro]

it's more about farming logs 😛

[icy crater]

Are you talking heroic or mythic

heroic run whatever you want doesn't matter

[gentle gyro]

cause 10% more for all phases except last, where zoldycks will carry you sounds like the maximum one could get

it's just hc, we ain't a mythic denny yet

my guild struggles with xymox, so go figure

but I'm not asking whether I can but whether it would technically be the highest dps soulbind

[icy crater]

sim it

[gentle gyro]

can i sim specific fights?

[stoic needle]

You can't really sim denathrius like that

Because of the damage share from remornia

[gentle gyro]

also this assumes you attack remornia for the majority of the fight cause she's always above 75% hp

that's the entire idea

[stoic needle]

But I'm still very confident that burrs will give more damage than wht

[icy crater]

burrs is like ~350 dps for me

[ornate lake]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[wary ice]

Parse whoring denathrius is 1000% about P1, Actually downing Denathrius is 1000% p3. Remornia also sint around for large portions of the fight in p2 during mechanics and such so its unrealistic to expect full uptime on her during it. FS+WHT will probably result in more P1 damage but its kinda inting on the one part of the fight that actually matters to kill

[gentle gyro]

we have no problems killing denny

and as dumb as it sounds, parse-whoring as a dps is sadly a game you have to play if you look to progress

as in you wanna clear stuff faster and apply to guilds which are better

not that I want to leave my current guild

but simply having good parses is a safety net

[raw dock]

As an outlaw rogue who is considering hopping on the sin wagon, what leggo should I be trying to craft?

[tacit forum]

Play style? It opens a less orthodox way of playing opportunity

[subtle kiln]

wait for the 9.0.5 patch

zoldyck if doing mythic sire

[wary ice]

Zoldyck Hodl Gang

[rare blaze]

Do it for Killua!

[native lynx]

whats the best conduit for torghast ?

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/sa1cm4u.png

basically mandatory unless you heavily outgear it

[native lynx]

potency?

[gentle gyro]

nothing special i'd imagine. well placed steel / lethal poisons

[spice spire]

Does LP work with leeching?

[dull fulcrum]

Are Ilvl % Logs worth something?

[thorny pond]

Yea, I doubt a 200 rogue will do as much as a 220 rogue

[wary ice]

no

[wary ice]

in the sense that LP makes you do more damage, yes?

[spice spire]

That’s fair

[wary ice]

LP doesnt increase the effectiveness of Poisons, just the instant damage from DP Procs

[icy crater]

Dude my friend group

smh

After a boss someone will be like yoo 98 parse pog

and its like 98 ilvl and 80 overall like buddy shut up

[native lynx]

98 parse for ilvl means the only thing he could do better is get gear

its a pretty good metric

for mechanics

[wary ice]

It means he got a PI

[icy crater]

thats just so not true lmao

[wary ice]

Parses are not a be all end all for "did i play well"

[native lynx]

unlikely

[wary ice]

ilvl% have a much smaller sample size

an as such are much more volatile

[native lynx]

depends on what you think is too small of a sample size

[wary ice]

?????

[native lynx]

a few hundred parses are enough

[icy crater]

What about players that have the same ilvl but one has a 226 phial and 226 weapons and the other doesn't

[sleek otter]

so with new Venthyr flag, is deeper strat the move?

[icy crater]

and a few hundred parses are not enough lmao

[wary ice]

^

Esp for melee dps

[icy crater]

dude I had a grey parse yesterday on mythic inerva and was liek wait what the fuck

I had someone review it and I didn't really do anything wrong

thats how volatile some fights are

[native lynx]

youre not grey parsing and doing everything right

[wary ice]

Ehhhh

Mechanics + fight length go a long way on M parses rn

[odd heath]

You can grey parse and be flawless on your rotation in xymox

[gentle gyro]

saying ilvl parses are useless is insanely ignorant

[wary ice]

sayinga 98 ilvl parse means you played flawlessly is ignorant

[gentle gyro]

i haven't said that

they aren't perfect

[icy crater]

I had solo review my parse and everything was fine, I didn't make any major mistakes.

[odd heath]

You can grey parse on kael if you need to click pedestals during aoe heavy parts

[gentle gyro]

but they remove a factor that might be beyond your control

[wary ice]

but they dont

[gentle gyro]

basically what I'm saying is that parses themselves are useless

if you have half a brain

or rather, single parses all by themselves

[spice spire]

Parses are just a dick measuring contests. Regardless I play for them on farm because I’m a shitter

[dull fulcrum]

Well there are only 88 parses for my ilvl

lol

[icy crater]

hmm interesting 🤔

[spice spire]

But yeah. Like on our first Hinerva kill I got a green because it was like a fucking 6 minute fight with half the group down. I didn’t do anything wrong, it’s just heavier mechanics needed. It’s way worse on mythic and I wouldn’t put much stock in it

Especially for prog kills. I take kills > parses every time

[icy crater]

I got beam during CDs and adds, I also had another random beam. We skipped a lot of adds with immunities

[gentle gyro]

progress kills always have horrible parses

they are bound to

[icy crater]

Stuff like that happens

I also re rolled covs last week and forgot I hadn't leveled it up

[gentle gyro]

uhm yes they do

if you compare two players, one at ilvl 229 and one at 201

[spice spire]

Now like, if you’re on farm and still crappy parsing that’s when you look at your rotation and figure out what’s going on.

[gentle gyro]

you think they are on even ground?

[icy crater]

Why are you comparing

[gentle gyro]

because that's what overall parses do

[icy crater]

Just look at your personal log and evaluate how you played

[gentle gyro]

why do you think ilvl parses exist

[wary ice]

If you compare two characters both at 201, one with a 226 mainh and phial and one with a 187 mainhand are they on even ground?

[icy crater]

the solution isn't to look at ilvl parse

and be like oh i played well

[gentle gyro]

stop strawmanning me @wary ice ty

[wary ice]

lol

How is literally how it works a strawman

[gentle gyro]

they are more on even ground than two players 30 ilvl apart

content?

[wary ice]

If the idea of ilvl % is to ignore the difference in gear

[gentle gyro]

to a certain degree

[wary ice]

but differences in gear still cause a huge disparation in damage

it does nothing

ESPECIALLY

when you have such a small samplesize

[gentle gyro]

not going to disagree, but it's better than nothing

[icy crater]

its actually worse

they need to remove it

[wary ice]

^

[icy crater]

its making players think they're playing well when they aren't

[native lynx]

Then how do you measure playing well

[icy crater]

By looking at your actual personal log

[native lynx]

jesus thats dumb

[spice spire]

^

[icy crater]

And making sure you're playing correct

lmfao

[gentle gyro]

people out here pretending ilvl parses are 5 people with vastly different gearsets competing, it's actually mindboggling

[gleaming tinsel]

“Did you do the things you were supposed to do when you were supposed to do them”

[icy crater]

Please explain to me how that is dumb?

[wary ice]

"Its dumb that i cant reduce playing well for 1 person in a 20 man raid to a percentile number"

[native lynx]

if youre boning your entire rotation all the time, all parses will be grey as hellk

[icy crater]

Not necessarily

you'll understand when you get better

and are better at reading logs

[gentle gyro]

aw man i feel like arguing with bad faith actors

[native lynx]

im 6/10M

[subtle kiln]

raiding is a team effort. if your raid team can’t push timings to parse, move on if parses are that important to you. fight timings are just crazy when it comes down to it.

[native lynx]

im not exactly trash

[icy crater]

you can be 9/10 and still have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to wcl

[native lynx]

i think i have a better than average understanding of analyzing logs

[subtle kiln]

we accidentally 5 healed shriek this week. those were some awful parses. lol

[icy crater]

Everyone thinks they're above average

[wary ice]

The pal couldnt tell he wasnt in ret :^( poor guy

[cunning wyvern]

Ilvl logs are pretty worthless

atm

Used to be a lot better

[gleaming tinsel]

Average player doesn’t even know what a log is so if you’re even trying to read a log you’re by default above average

That doesn’t mean much tho

[icy crater]

and the average human being doesn't play wow so if you play wow you're above average

how dumb of a statement can you make

lmao

[native lynx]

ilvl parses exist for a reason. There is a low margin of parses where its only indicative of low comparative parses, but when youre parsing blue at 220 and purple for ilvl, youve got a very good indicator of whether or not youre fucking everything up

[gleaming tinsel]

Ilvl parses are pretty meaningless bruh

[subtle kiln]

people misinterpret data all the time. doesn’t mean the data from wcl is bad or should go away.

[gentle gyro]

no single number, ever, has accurately measured your performance, ever

[gleaming tinsel]

No one cares if you parse for your ilvl

[gentle gyro]

doesn't mean they are useless

[icy crater]

They are useless and even detrimental if you take them at face value

[gleaming tinsel]

Parsing for your ilvl does not even tell you if you’re parsing close to your gear potential

[gentle gyro]

that was a general statement, not attributed to anyone in particular

[gleaming tinsel]

You can have two people with same ilvl with vastly different dps potential

Completely meaningless

[gentle gyro]

but tbh I don't have the time to argue statistics online

[icy crater]

You can take people with the exact same gear and the exact same button presses and one can be 95 the other 35

[gentle gyro]

i swear "nuance" is something people are lacking in their dictionary

[icy crater]

but they got unlucky with mechanics or kill time or their raid giving them a job etc etc

[native lynx]

prove it

[manic harness]

What is the point of this argument

[icy crater]

Do you understand what I'm saying?

[native lynx]

exact same gear with exact same button presses will not ever have that huge of a disparity

[icy crater]

I mean I feel like we're at a stand still here and no one will budge so

we can move on

[gleaming tinsel]

I think he means that people can be executing the same when on target, but may not have the same uptime bc of what’s going on in their raid

Which is like, super obvious

You don’t need data to support that lol

[native lynx]

if they have different uptime they have different button presses

[icy crater]

You're too dense dude just let it go

[native lynx]

I really dont think you know as much as you think you do, but ill let it go. Good talk big shoots

[gentle gyro]

if you have to argue with someone why or why not ilvl parses mean something (not even saying what) then the argument itself is useless because said person lacks the intellectual capacities to grasp how statistics work

[sleek otter]

I think what he means is even with perfect button presses, if you get unlucky with a lot of mechanics targeting you, it can cause you to parse lower

which is obvious

[gleaming tinsel]

What do you evaluate by comparing yourself against your ilvl parse?

And what decision does that help you make

Said differently, what decision would you make off of an ilvl parse that you wouldn’t make off of your spec parse

Ilvl parse does not help you assess if you’re doing as much damage as you should be doing. It does not help you assess if you are doing the right things at the right time. It does not help you assess how your overall damage you compares to everyone else.

[strange python]

sniff sniff

[native lynx]

it helps you asses your overall performance compared to other people of similar ilvl. If ilvl parses are meaningless, so are overall, because "hidden potential" can never be known unless you do your sim dps.

[strange python]

i smell a hipster

[gleaming tinsel]

No one cares how you compare to people of similar ilvl. That’s meaningless

You might as well compare to people with the same hairstyle

It tells you nothing

[strange python]

all hipsters look the same

[native lynx]

can you improve? yes, by analyzing the fight, but noone looks at a parse % whether for overall or for ilvl and says thats it, im either good or shit and leaves it there

you look at your ilvl if youre not at 226 or 228 and see just how much you need to analyze. If youre at 222 and hit a 99 ilvl parse, you can pretty much rest assured that you did as well as you could have under the circumstances.

there is not a lack of parses at that ilvl

[gleaming tinsel]

No one with a brain compares their dps to the average ilvl dps bc that means diddly

[native lynx]

i feel like you dont understand what its there for

so im happy to stop talking with you about it

[gleaming tinsel]

Please stop talking

[strange python]

this is not necessary

[subtle kiln]

how does it help you when someone of the same ilvl could be getting fed loot on a reroll or alt by a guild full of mains? you raid avg ilvl is 218, their raid avg ilvl is 227 while you’re both at the same ilvl.

[strange python]

you can have a discussion without escalating the situation, thank you

[native lynx]

what kind of statement is that? if youre at equal ilvl youre at equal ilvl, its not going to vary by 50% because of one item

[subtle kiln]

the raid that has a higher ilvl is killing say shriek in a single pass while your guild is taking 3

that majorly alters your parse

while you and the other rogue are same ilvl

[wary ice]

The argument would be made that overall parse has the same issue

But thats when the signficantly smaller sample size thing comes in again

[native lynx]

1 parse out of 500 where a guy gets boosted doesnt change your parse by a meaningful amount

[wary ice]

Sure; now account for people with more impactful ilvl'd gear, better trinket luck etc

[strange python]

Productive 30min+ convo lol

[native lynx]

if youre playing perfectly for your ilvl, your parse will be 1-5% different from theirs, not 50.

[honest lake]

So, zolydck sucks in 9.0.5?

[icy crater]

no

[subtle kiln]

if ilvl parses make you or anyone else feel good about themselves. that’s wonderful. not here to rain on that parade. is any ilvl parse going to help you get into a guild / raid? nope, not if the guild has half a clue how to evaluate logs

[strange python]

Whens 9.0.5 even coming out.

[wary ice]

Zoldyck was bugged in sims iirc, Envenom was pandemicing or something so it was being overvalued

to my knowledge that has been fixed

[native lynx]

is that the problem? youre trying to say that ilvl parses wont convince limit to take you? I never said that

ilvl parses are good for prog guilds to measure how their players stack up against the big boys

if youre still progressing normal than no parse matters to you

and thats fine

[honest lake]

so, DS is the lgo to legendary legendary now?

[wary ice]

honestly dont know

I'd trust the sim

If you're looking ot make an assa leggo I'd save ash for 905 and use MA in the mean time

[icy crater]

I'm saving soul ash for 9.0.5

[subtle kiln]

i made DB for pvp and generally like it for pve even on live now. as said, wait for 9.0.5 stuff to shake out if your don’t need anything right now.

doom blade. not ds. lol

[wary ice]

I was like damn scoundrel for pvp ur nuts

[subtle kiln]

too early. brain farted. haha

[wary ice]

i dislike doomblade mut bleed on the whole tbh

Last thing we need is another reason to not press ambush :/

[gusty mirage]

SBS was buffed 😮

[subtle kiln]

i like the env aspect. the bleed is a bonus to me.

[wary ice]

Yeah hence my edits

I really like the env aspect especially with CTTC comingin

[tender fjord]

SBS “rework”, they increased initial dmg 😂

[tender fjord]

3 times 0 is still 0

[gusty mirage]

It can crit now

so

that's actually huge for it, plus they made it a decent CP builder if you have more than 1 up

idk if it's worth it stll, but it's good that they're at least trying to fix our covenant abilities lol

[tender fjord]

The extra combo point is very nice tho

[wary ice]

IDR the energy cost off hand but i do remember it being very low

[gleaming tinsel]

Didn’t it already work that way?

[tender fjord]

I’m happy I postponed going Venthyr yesterday now 😅

[wary ice]

Can easily be gain when you cant mut

[gleaming tinsel]

It’s 15e iirc

[gusty mirage]

I think its like 15

[gleaming tinsel]

Already gave you extra CPs per active dot

[gusty mirage]

its kinda nuts in aoe then if you already have multiple up

[wary ice]

P sure thats like 2 when you account for vigor gain, let alone venomous wounds

[tender fjord]

It gave 1 for every active bonespike. Now it calculates after new bone spike instead of before

[wary ice]

Willing to argue its energy positive to use

[gleaming tinsel]

So it starts at 2cp per use?

[tender fjord]

So first hit 2, 2nd 3.
It was first hit 1, 2nd 2

Yes

[gleaming tinsel]

They could be nice for sub

Already pretty nice for getting dance charges back

[agile geode]

So

[tender fjord]

Third one now gives 3 cp which is pretty nice for the very low energy cost

[agile geode]

Necrolord confirmed ?

Or venthyr better??

[tender fjord]

Wouldn’t go that far just yet

[gleaming tinsel]

Necro soulbinds suck and fleshcraft sucks

[tender fjord]

Wait for the smart boys to sim

[agile geode]

Yy

[wary ice]

Its literally been less than a minute lol

[tender fjord]

Exactly

[gleaming tinsel]

No

[tender fjord]

That would make necro lord confirmed 😝

[gusty mirage]

that's a big absorb, albeit it'll be situational

[sinful cradle]

exsang doesnt work with sbs

[wary ice]

I belive exsang does work on SBS rn, but its a bug and its like 900% going to be patched out

[agile geode]

@balmy condor sensei let us see