assassination

[stoic needle]

I've simmed it quite a bit, anything besides using flag on CD is a dps loss

Don't try to sync it up

[frail fossil]

the ososhi apl

sus

[stoic needle]

Your face is sus

[faint harness]

didnt they fix it

koji and whispyr

or was that something else

[stoic needle]

Fix what

The flag apl?

They did, but using CDs on CD is still the best as far as I know

[brittle frigate]

Yo guys
I'm coming in Horde and i don't know what race play 😦
Which one do you play and why ?
I hesitate between Undead and Blood elf

[stoic needle]

Races don't really matter. Pick whichever one you like the most

[brittle frigate]

But 1% crit is not enought to do the difference ?

[spice spire]

It’s not. But I do play blood elf.
Race makes transmog look good

[celest ruin]

tauren rogues are the best

[stoic needle]

No 1% crit doesn't make much of a difference at all

Arcane torrent is nice for dispells but it's just extra utility

Orc blood fury is another CD, and their stun resist is nice

Really, just pick whatever race you like the most every one is within 1% DPS of each other

[solar hare]

Also gens 15 energy

Quite good

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's not bad for sin at all

When you've just used up a bunch of energy

[brittle frigate]

I don't like their pointy ears when you have a head transmo 😦

I will go undead i think! Thanks guys

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[grim hornet]

!stats

[tribal marlin]

The new logic for syncing is made so that you don't loose casts. It will delay Flag/Sepsis to sync with Vendetta unless it make you loose a cast, in that case it will try to Delay vendetta to sync with last Flag using same logic

Overall in like 5mn sims it will delay Vendetta at 4:30 insteed of 4:00, but on 3mn sims it will delay Flag to cast at 2:00 rather than 1:30

[stoic needle]

Interesting

That's a little different from trying to sync it with thrill seeker though? Idk I'd have to sim it again and check

[tribal marlin]

Originally my idea was to sync only last casts, so that the APL would look at sync stuff only if it remains less than 125sec of fight (100sec for Sepsis). It was a large win of up to +1.2% of 3mn sims and +0.8% on 5mn sims

and it was working fine with flag as well

but yeah the TL:DR is : Sync if you can, but make sure you don't loose a cast doing it

It was better for Zoldyck but there were also some edge case unfortunately

like Take exactly 310sec fight

I's a good a example *

because if you sync at the start, you will do Flag/Seps at 0 2:00 3:30 and 5:00 and you will loose 14sec of Flag buff or 20sec of Niya's grove invigoration.

But if you sync toward the end, you will do 0 1:30 3:00 and 4:30, and delay vendetta rather than Flag/Seps and you won't loose anything. So yeah syncing is a tough topic tbh

[subtle kiln]

with Duskwalkers what can you realistically get vendetta down to? i’m assuming the 1:30 mark, but do you start ending up at points you’d be holding vendetta for the covenants?

[tribal marlin]

60 to 75s

[limber lion]

With the new Duskwalkers' that is.

[tribal marlin]

yeah

[limber lion]

Currently it's around 90s I believe

[subtle kiln]

that’s not training dummy, that’s actual fights?

[tribal marlin]

yea

60 is like training dummy

the lowest possible CD for Vend would be 52sec

can't go below because of GCD

[subtle kiln]

so you’re basically holding one or the other for 15-20 seconds.

[tribal marlin]

not always

once per fight most likely

[subtle kiln]

if you’re trying to sync every one off ptr timings

[tribal marlin]

The global idea is : you have a "pool" of seconds that you can delay before it start cutting some uptime or loosing an entiere cast.

For example in 5mn sims, your pool for Flag/Sep is 20sec

And for vendetta it's 60sec

or well .. 40sec actually

if this amount of sec is lower than the time you have to wait for a sync, then you don't sync

[torpid spoke]

Apparently exsanguinate causes necrobone spike to tick faster?

On ptr

[mortal tartan]

are sin rogues going venthyr now?

[chrome ledge]

The exsanguinate is almost def a bug

[torpid spoke]

And it stacks can someone confirm

[haughty totem]

maybe this is a bug

https://gyazo.com/792278980f517540ca5e6e844cb1a07f

[torpid spoke]

Loooooooool

Does it work live

[haughty totem]

boneskipe dot is uncapped, with exanguinate is really hard tik

[torpid spoke]

Yes

After 2-3 it gets insane

[haughty totem]

y

they need to fix it, but don't nerf

[torpid spoke]

Is this live or ptr

[haughty totem]

ptr

[cedar silo]

Yes

If it worked like this but just not as insane after 2-3 I think this wouldn’t be too bad to keep

Gives rogues something atleast since we’re not that viable in raid atm

[haughty totem]

yeah, they can cap boneskipe with 1 use on exanguinate

[torpid spoke]

Let’s see how it goes

[cedar silo]

If you had like 30% haste the dot after 1 exanguinate would be one tick per second which isn’t that broken tbh

Would be a step in the right direction if you asked me so rogues can have something going for them

[spice spire]

DIY rogue convoke

[wet lava]

Does vendetta consume a GCD?

[spice spire]

It does not

[faint harness]

not that broken 🙂

[tiny plume]

Hello 🙂 is here someone who speaks german? 🙂

[toxic tusk]

I think my friend does, but she isn’t a rogue?

Also, I’m sorry for only popping in once in a while. Has roguing changed much in the past couple of weeks?

[gentle gyro]

can someone explain to me how sespsis and subterfuge interact?

like, sometimes i get a garrote that silences and sometimes i don't

and it makes 0 sense to me

[spice spire]

9.0.5 inc. that’s pretty much it

[lean fossil]

so any guesses on how good sin will be through out this whole expac?

[stoic needle]

It always silences but never gives the damage bonus

[gentle gyro]

sometimes i use garrote with the proc, don't get the silence and ambush is still usable

it's either insanely incosistent or I'm missing something major

[willow saddle]

im doing 55k dps with the exsanguinate bug

[tender fjord]

After how long since first exsang?

I think these gifs give very skewed views of reality

[bleak horizon]

How is sin looking with the 9.0.5 changes?

[strange python]

Depends on what limit says

[bleak horizon]

lmao

[stoic needle]

It's a good contender for highest dps melee now, especially after the monk nerfs

[bleak horizon]

bad for aoe compared to outlaw still?

[stoic needle]

I wouldn't really call it bad. It's 10% worse but it's better than sub

[faint harness]

Its bad for aoe

I dont know why you pretend sin has good aoe

Even outlaw dont have good aoe and its, as you said, 10% better

[gusty mirage]

Did a 15 as sin yesterday, and my God did I have to work so much harder to do less damage

[faint harness]

Lots of pretending its gonna be 100% fine for rogue after this mini patch

[gusty mirage]

Idk if it’s worth it tbh :/

It’s such a pain in the ass to get damage rolling in aoe

[faint harness]

Well depending on comp you run with you wont do much aoe at all

Not like CT and the other dots are bursty spells

[gusty mirage]

I just switched back to outlaw after the key tbh

[faint harness]

Well yea if you care about your m+ performance you play outlaw

[stoic needle]

I didn't say that sin had good aoe. Of course it's shit compared to ranged classes

[faint harness]

Its shit compared to other melees too

[gusty mirage]

I just couldn’t justify it for m+, maybe if we had access to shrouded suff and EB again it’d be doable. But right now it’s just bleh in m+

[faint harness]

Participation bonus on beating sub at 5t and below, the worst cleave spec in the game

[stoic needle]

It beats sub in 8+ too

[faint harness]

No it doesnt

[stoic needle]

Yes it does

[steel bane]

I'm still waiting for dot spreading tool for assassination

[stoic needle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[tender fjord]

I run assa at 15’s and 16’s, fight for 2nd dps and still time keys. If you want to play assa play assa

[vestal wren]

i don't have 8 targets in my spreadsheet

also sin beats sub on cleave and sustained aoe even without the 5% spec aura

[faint harness]

Its only 5t

[steel bane]

does the sheet already take into account the envenom pandemic bug with zoldyck

?

[faint harness]

Plus 13k sustained aoe on 5 targets is basically what a vengeance demon hunter does

[iron orchid]

They probably won't do as much when 9.0.5 goes live due to nerfs to elysian decree, and we should be able to get just a little bit more

[faint harness]

Yea sure, but having progressed fights where there is aoe and seeing what other specs can do we’re not even close.

[iron orchid]

If we are to talk about sin's dps in 9.0.5, we should take into account that other specs also get bug fixes or slight ups and nerfs, which, eventhough still very small, may "balance" things a little

[iron orchid]

yup

[faint harness]

Warlocks are getting buffed

Kinda fun

[iron orchid]

they nerfed it then buffed the nerf

so it is written as a buff

[steel bane]

what?

[iron orchid]

but is a slight nerf

[faint harness]

They are getting buffed through bug fixes

Not the rapture thing

[iron orchid]

Ah yes

probably

[stoic needle]

Bp and ct are both 8t so whatever applies at 5 will apply at 8 too that's my point

[faint harness]

25% more pet dmg

[iron orchid]

but MM may get a slight nerf

WW too

[faint harness]

10% dps buff ish

For aff

Ez clap

[steel bane]

should buff moonkin imo, not good enough

[faint harness]

Yes and fire mage

[faint harness]

Simply not true tho

Unless you rupture 8 targets

At 5 and beyond assa is just ct

And poisons

You dont spam out ruptures on every single target

[stoic needle]

You don't need to rupture 8 targets. 3 garottes, 2 ruptures and ct spam on 8t is more damage than bp ss spam

Especially with subterfuge

[lean fossil]

@stoic needle so what i do is garrote the three on the opener, then rupture and then fok and ct, then rupture a second one

[faint harness]

Yes and thats not very impressive, all i am saying

[willow mason]

Hello, if it keeps going as it is in ptr. Venthyr will be the go to. When should be a good time to start thinking in switching?

[lean fossil]

after that balance ct, ruptures, garrotes and possibly env

[shadow helm]

whats bp

[faint harness]

Beating sub on aoe is not a feat, possibly only feral thats worse at it

[stoic needle]

If you want to be all caught up on renown now is a good time

[stoic needle]

Black p wder

[keen remnant]

ew

[dense hamlet]

atleast it dosent lock u in place like the other finisher was doing in beta

[obtuse vale]

Hey guys, how is Dashing Scoundrel looking on ptr ? Since CTTC give much more envenom putime ?

[ocean drum]

it already is BiS ST sustained, afaik. i'd rather think about doomblade after ptr hits

[obtuse vale]

yeah prob right

[willow mason]

ok thanks.

[north basin]

U guys run assa in m+ with different talents than solo build?

[stoic needle]

EP subterfuge CT

[spice spire]

Have you ever sinned and ran Master Assassin in M+? I have, and it’s about a 5/10 still can’t recommend

But yeah, EP/Subt/CT is stock. You can occasionally run into a PB dungeon if you’re doing small pulls by design.

[stoic needle]

i think PB might be decent in SD

and maybe... spires, top, halls?

[quasi ledge]

Definitely CT in Halls

[wary ice]

subt is way too big to quickly push into your aoe

[wary ice]

I think we discussed this as well in the past

IIRC The damage lost on st from pb pales to the damage gained from ct even at like 3+ targets

[stoic needle]

that was just a dslice sim, it wasn't specific about target count

[spice spire]

I agree. I don’t even remember why I did that, but I pulled a fair number in a necrotic with it. But the loss of the instant silence and the big quad garrote for early regen was definitely felt.

[wary ice]

the only talent change i think is worth while is blindside on ToP

[spice spire]

The early fan > CT > fan > rupture was nice, but you definitely feel the loss heavily after that

[stoic needle]

but like TOP and SD are more about the bosses than the trash

well sd has that godawful gauntlet

but still

[spice spire]

Really? You think BS over EP on ToP? It makes sense considering the chain pulls are fewer and further in between

[wary ice]

Most of SD is done in double pulls tbh

[spice spire]

Ye

[wary ice]

I tihnk BS over EP is a consideration thats worth while on ToP

IDK if its actually better

but ToP's pulls are very weird where theres 5 bosses, like 4 individual pulls (not including prideful) that are solo unless you make them spicy

[spice spire]

I don’t like PB on SD. I could see it on mists or even ToP on a really just free tyrannical week

[dark hollow]

in single target, what is CTs use? eg on m+ bosses i’ve been skipping it for env as if it didn’t exist

[spice spire]

But I think CT Is almost always the play

[wary ice]

none

[spice spire]

Don’t use CT at all

[wary ice]

you dont use ct on st

[stoic needle]

no you do CT on ST

it's like 40 dps

i don't quite get PB in mists

[wary ice]

More specifically the hall of carnage and souls both have pulls that predominately focus on priority or single target damage that are very hard to pull other things into

[spice spire]

Not large pulls, outside of like one in the maze. And bosses are an absolute bitch.

I watched Deï on mists, and he used PB. But he also had a fury warrior and an NF hunter with him so that meant he wasn’t going to get full use out of his CTs potentially

I meant to ask him during stream and forgot ><

[stoic needle]

makes sense, guess it would depend on group comp

[wary ice]

IDK dei, i dont doubt hes a better player than me

but i see that as just a mistake tbh

[stoic needle]

there are definitely some pulls that have low hp mobs that die before ct runs its course like in sd those big caster pulls

or the smaller gorm at the end of mist

[spice spire]

It was also specifically this week where the affixes mean you don’t have to aoe them down evenly. And even targeting one prio add down is useful. Like I said whenever he’s on, I actually meant to ask him about it

[stoic needle]

@iron orchid explain yourself

[spice spire]

Damn, really @ing him

[iron orchid]

We were in a hurry and i fucked up my talents

[wary ice]

🙂

[stoic needle]

[iron orchid]

We just got out of raid, and i was talented into bs/pb

niya's burrs

Some good ST shit

But yeah, usually run EP/CT

[stoic needle]

imagine not having emergency tomes

[iron orchid]

we were half into the 2nd pull when i said "damn forgot to change talents"

[spice spire]

Ahhh I see

Weren’t you still second in damage you mad man?

[iron orchid]

didn't see myself running back to the entrance and shit

yup

[spice spire]

Jesus

[iron orchid]

Because my mates hit like shit on Ingra Maloch

[wary ice]

They should just multidot the bosses

[iron orchid]

The benefits you get from using PB on bosses can be easily overcompensated int the 2nd and 3rd part of the dungeon by doing huge pulls

[stoic needle]

i pulled 7k dps on the first boss of TOP with ep ct

[iron orchid]

Which you often do with a pride buff, to gain some time

[stoic needle]

no pride

[odd flax]

is the shiv leggo gonna worth it for 9.0.5? for ST?

[stoic needle]

outdpsd the boomkin and fire mage

[stoic needle]

absolutely not

[iron orchid]

Most likely not

[spice spire]

I missed that bit. My French is absolute shit, especially in conversing.

[stoic needle]

i want more cleave bosses

[iron orchid]

I was getting hard trolled by my tank about my talents

[stoic needle]

i pump hard on those

[spice spire]

Doomblade papi inc

[iron orchid]

cos i did the same shit last week on a top 18

and i got out after the first boss just to switch talents

[spice spire]

LMAO. At least top it’s a bit better. But in a fortified week OOF

[stoic needle]

please blizzard, give us an actual 3 target cleave boss next tier

council is so troll

[iron orchid]

didn't know it teleports you down when you reenter the dungeon

[spice spire]

We don’t need cleave anymore. 4K Necro lord dot build INC

[stoic needle]

i didnt shiv the whole time cuz i was saving it for the warrior miniboss, i could've shivved and done even more than 7k

[wary ice]

oh for the derage?

[stoic needle]

yeah, i couldn't remember when it happened so i just saved shiv

[wary ice]

The trick is to forget you have that utility

ez damage gain

just run crippling poison

[stoic needle]

lmao

[lean fossil]

i run with a hunter lol shiv is a dps cooldown

[spice spire]

TRUE.

[lean fossil]

have fun hunter 😄

[spice spire]

“Wait, shiv can soothe?! It doesn’t when I use it with crippling poison, weird.”

[wary ice]

fwiw ppl dont even know rogue can do that

no one will expect it from you

[stoic needle]

One guy called me out for it

so i was self conscious after that

[wary ice]

Sounds like a WW reroller

[stoic needle]

he was playing mage, poorly

[wary ice]

I was close :/

[gusty mirage]

most fotm rerollers do

[wary ice]

its sad that i can play warlock at 30 parse and do as much as my 90+ parses on rogue :^(

[gusty mirage]

I 99 parsed sludge and was 7th on the charts lol

Feels fucking awful

[wary ice]

I'm proud of you, at least

[stoic needle]

soon brothers

[wary ice]

I love when we're on progression fights cause im usually top 3 on the meters

[stoic needle]

doomblade will be fixed and our day will come

[gusty mirage]

while one of our hunters is high blue parsing at top 5 at all times

[wary ice]

then like 3 weeks later im doing the exact same amount of damage and everyone else figured out how to do damage while not wiping us.

[gusty mirage]

"skill"

[wary ice]

Hunter i give a pass tbh

ITs not even a class right now

Its literally just wild spirits

[gusty mirage]

they're going to feel bad like us soon though

[wary ice]

Fire mage is the biggest offender imo

[gusty mirage]

that double proc of wild spirits is going away, it's like a 5% nerf lol

[wary ice]

Convoke is dumb and a meme but i think its only slightly over tuned, and the raid fights just magnify its usefulness

fire mage is just actually busted rn and they've done a whole bunch of nerfs to other specs with the intent to reduce the exact thing they're doing

[gusty mirage]

yeah if our boomies roll a good convoke the first 10% of the boss's health just disappears

[icy crater]

Convoke needs top end brought down but bottom end brought up I think

[wary ice]

imo kill a second of the channel

12 spells, 3 seconds, instead of 16 over 4

or whatever it is

like just bring that ratio down so its not so oppresive.

[gusty mirage]

then they'll go on wowhead and cry about rogues needing a nerf LUL

like the last time it got nerfed in pvp "ASSASSINATION NERF WHEN?"

like.... wat

[lean fossil]

@stoic needle what do you mean doomblade will be fixed? is the buff they are doing going to be better than zold?

[wary ice]

Honestly i REALLY like convoke as a button

its powerful, cinematic, and feels cool

[icy crater]

convoke is the most fun button you can't ruin it

[wary ice]

exactly

[gusty mirage]

bring back MA for the necrotic wake weapons 😠

[stoic needle]

well it's already better than zold for pure single target. currently the dot is bugged and is affected by armor though which slightly reduces its dps

i hope they fix it, i dont want to craft dashing

[wary ice]

while i agree, honestly its kinda busted

tyranical boss btw

[gusty mirage]

nah that's fine

idk what you mean

let us have our ONE dungeon

lol

[stoic needle]

i see nothing wrong with that

[dull fulcrum]

Do you guys hold Seps and Shiv, for 2nd Vendetta?

[stoic needle]

no

[spice spire]

DPSTank

[wary ice]

dotn hold shiv

[lean fossil]

i just want to be able to use 2 lendendaries lol

[wary ice]

the tank and i both used a hammer and a javelin

[spice spire]

Don’t hold shiv or sepsis

[wary ice]

the fight only lasted 27s cause it took 25 to get him on the ground

[spice spire]

I figured

[gusty mirage]

lmao

[spice spire]

LMAO

[gusty mirage]

that's amazing

[frail fossil]

Very honest

[wary ice]

IDR the level i want to say it was a 17

[stoic needle]

it's so funny watching the boss just cease to exist

[stoic needle]

#MakeRoguesDishonestAgain

[wary ice]

Our Unholy popped Army+ apoc

had the whole thing for the next boss lol

[gusty mirage]

poor guy

I did a 17 wake for a buddy yesterday, trying to get him KSM and his hunter friend was like "I wish I would've taken a weapon"

cuz I ended up beating him overall LUL

[lean fossil]

on nw, does our vendetta buff the dmg the spear does?

[stoic needle]

dude

mages will literally steal weapons from me in NW

just so i don't beat them in overall

[wary ice]

in a different NW; We were going to do the miniboss befor the bridge

[stoic needle]

like i had this mage burn his blink just so he could get to the orb faster

[gusty mirage]

imaging inting a key because your feelings get hurt if you're not top dps

[spice spire]

Imagine losing to a rogue as a hunter or a mage

[wary ice]

and a mage literally took the orb from me

Used it 40yds away

[gusty mirage]

LMFAO

[spice spire]

Even with messed up interactions

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

my blacklist is filled with a lot of mages like that

one dude did 3.8k overall

and was like "you're lucky I'm carrying you"

like thanks dude

appreciate it

[wary ice]

Heres the problem oxi

you're accounting for the whole dungeon

[lean fossil]

@gusty mirage you just dont understand his effort man

[wary ice]

hes only paying attention when combust is up

[frail fossil]

U can blacklist ppl ???

[gusty mirage]

that's like me when I play fire mage

outside of combust I just zone out

lol

just stop casting

so my mage never got touched again

[wary ice]

im 90% sure the only thing u do outside of combust is cast fireball

[gusty mirage]

yeah there's an addon for it

[icy crater]

I think frost kinda pumps in m+

[frail fossil]

Ah

[wary ice]

Frost is Fatty damage but its capped

[frail fossil]

Frost is good

It's just not fire

[spice spire]

Frost is good but yeah it’s capped

Fire is just

[wary ice]

our GM is a frost mage and hes honestly insane

[frail fossil]

Even if fire was capped

It would be better

[wary ice]

lowest ive seen him do ina dungeon overall is 6.8

[gusty mirage]

frost is low key insane

like under the radar insane

[wary ice]

i think he got KSM like 2nd week of M+ being active

[gusty mirage]

I played with a frost mage that just farmed in a TOP

[lean fossil]

idk about you guys im just happy to be averaging over 5k in dungeons

[gusty mirage]

I think it was a 17?

[icy crater]

I'm up to 20 renown from rerolling covs on wednesday

def not getting 34 before tuesday

[gusty mirage]

you can probably get there in 4-5 hours

if you grind it out

just do LFR and a buncha heroic dungeons

[slender trail]

they start to not drop

[icy crater]

I did LFR, Heroic, and normal

[slender trail]

i've switched covs twice now and they grind to a hault

[gusty mirage]

yeah I noticed that too

just seemingly they just stop dropping

[icy crater]

and like 5/9 campaign or something

[gusty mirage]

I think it might be soft capped per day

[wary ice]

you have to do campaign

[stoic needle]

i know that if you turn in the souls and anima quests you stop getting catch up

[wary ice]

they fixed this as best i can tell

[gusty mirage]

yeah I noticed that on my rogue and another alt

I feel like there still might be soft cap if you do those idk

[wary ice]

but your cap from catch up is still Max renown-CAmpaign renown not done

[icy crater]

On my other alt, it felt like I got 30+ so fast

[gusty mirage]

but that's just me pulling personal experience outta my ass

[wary ice]

there might be daily stuff too not positive

[stoic needle]

well alts dont seem to have a cap

it's weird for sure i wish they'd just be transparent about it

[gusty mirage]

we might just be more observant on our mains

[slender trail]

oshosi, that's not true

[wary ice]

has anyone else made 0 effort to do the weeklies now that the soulbinds are unlocked

[slender trail]

100% verified false. you can get catchup renown after turning those in.

[gusty mirage]

I used to be religious about the anima + souls

now it takes me like 4 days to do it lmao

[wary ice]

lol i have to get 60 souls across 3 characters and im like

[stoic needle]

for a while you 100% could not

[icy crater]

I haven't done maw quests since like december...

[wary ice]

"or i could just do m+ for it next week :^^^)"

[icy crater]

Except the renown ones

[stoic needle]

that's what it was like when i switched from necro to venthyr

[gusty mirage]

I'm about to hit soul cap because I'm not getting enough anima to use the souls I'm getting

[stoic needle]

and then again from venthyr to nf

[wary ice]

same

one of my guildmates actually got 15k anima for level 3 transporter

and im like

[stoic needle]

i did maw quests to get a couple sockets but now i dgaf

[wary ice]

honestly how

[gusty mirage]

lmao wtf

[wary ice]

I've been putting 1k in a week and frankly ive been hard stuck at 3k

idk where its all going lol

[gusty mirage]

I think I upgraded 1 thing to level 3 as venthyr before switching

and I felt like such an idiot

[stoic needle]

if you do the mission table you get anima for free

[wary ice]

Level 3 transporter (for kyrian at least) gives a portal to oribos

[stoic needle]

the missions cost less anima than you get as a reward

[gusty mirage]

they all give the portal

[icy crater]

dude I went to my thing the other day and deposited, it went from like 10% to full lmfao. Had so much in my bags

[wary ice]

Which FINALLY fixes the issue of where my hearth should be sat

[gusty mirage]

but I'm an engineer so 🙂

wormhole op tbh

[wary ice]

Alchi/enchant

so my shit gear saves me money

and my flasks last longer

[gusty mirage]

I've had LWing since vanilla, and have some recipes that aren't in the game any longer

[stoic needle]

i rotate between alch/herb and alch/enchant

oh that's sick

[gusty mirage]

so I'm like super hesitant to drop LW

[stoic needle]

yeah def keep that

[gusty mirage]

but I really want to do alch to save money on flasks

[stoic needle]

kinda sad i can't get rhok'delar anymore

for my hunter

[limber lion]

Ever since I changed to Engi, I'm never going back. Actually good profession that does something and actually really QoL for many things. (AH, Wormhole, CR)

[manic harness]

I need to get the battle rez and stop being lazy

But yeah wormhole is stellar

[limber lion]

Haven't used a flight master in a long while. Pretty much only to Revendreth to raid (which you usually get a summon for anyway).

Probably would be more utilized if I actually did m+ but eh, no rewards = no motivation to do it

[lapis jungle]

When would be the optimal time to jump on the venth-train? I don't wanna play with the current flag for too long 😂

[wary ice]

? after its out would be the answer then

Unless you're asking "how long do you think it will take for me to grind 34 renwown"

in which case id give yourself a week buffer

[barren brook]

hey ! i have some question :x Dashing scoundrel should have some use in aoe no ? is it really bad in aoe ? (since the energy gain can proc on multiple targets). And, could Master poisoner become better than blindside in some single target situation ? (with a shorter exec phase for exemple ?)

[gloomy ridge]

I've been switching between sin and outlaw specs-- what stats should i be juicing for sin? Haste/crit?

[limber lion]

No because you get so much more energy from bleeds on several targets where it basically deems the legendary useless.

[limber lion]

And no, haven't seen a case where MP would be better than Blindside/EP but only simulating yourself should give better results.

[limber lion]

Pretty much, but tbh you shouldn't focus on stats too much. Ilvl and primary stats > everything else

[solid mica]

is there anywhere that you can look at conduits and their corresponding ilvl upgrades to see what the differences actually are?

[wary ice]

Energy gen in AoE is a non issue due to multidotting, The benefit of master poisoner is not in the added poison damage but in the added potency of the non lethal. It will see more use in PvP if anywhere due to the stronger slow + i believe it also amps the healing reduction of Wounding

ceverion answered you i dont read sorrry.

re stat prio: haste crit would be good if you're swapping between assa and outlaw. For assa in M+ im near positive crit master or at least crit verse will be better.

[gloomy ridge]

Focusing on primary stats, got it! Also, is this a rogue specific thing to do, or should all classes do this?

[wary ice]

Most classes like ilvl at this point

but its ona spec by spec basis

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
Paste your character in from the Simc addon then scroll down to the conduit section below and click "Unlock all conduits". You can then choose the ilvl of the conduits and compare them to each other.

[strange python]

Is Zoldyck still going to be best overall leggo after 9.0.5? Sims are all showing Doomblade and I just finished my Zoldyck r4 😐

[inner granite]

Doomblade is showing much higher dps for me currently than Zold's

MA is also beating zolds in ST

[strange python]

RIP

[stoic needle]

zoldyck will be the best 'overall' but after 9.0.5 you will want either dashing or doomblade to switch to on pure single target fights where execute isnt needed

[limber lion]

Not 100% sure yet because the Sims were overvaluing Zoldyck because Envenom was pandemicing and now it's not.

[stoic needle]

there just isn't a one size fits all legendary anymore which is a good thing

i doubt MA will end up better than zoldyck though

[inner granite]

Well, I mean a sim is a sim

[strange python]

Dang so I gotta get my ass back into Torghast for another few weeks? Ughhhhhh

[inner granite]

If doomblade beats zolds by 100+ dps in my sims

[stoic needle]

zoldyck is still best for aoe, and it's better for progression

[inner granite]

MA is also simming much better in Dslice for me

~150 dps higher than zolds

Looks to me like Zolds api in the sims was not correct

[limber lion]

Read what I posted above.

[inner granite]

Yes I did, Just having a conversation here buddy

[stoic needle]

the envenom pandemic thing is a bug that will most likely be fixed

but i've never had MA over zold for dslice, and i wouldn't run MA over zold for M+

[limber lion]

Yeah, Envenom has functioned the same all this time and just now in SL got changed (most likely to clashing issues with the DS legendary)

[stoic needle]

maybe if you have really low haste it'll sim that way

[inner granite]

I have 17% haste

[limber lion]

Also DSlice is not the best thing in the world and shouldn't be trusted blindly. It does not take into account affixes (fortified, tyrannical)

[thorn turtle]

also a stat question, what % secondary should i aim for?

[limber lion]

And it's just not as accurate as raid simulations.

[limber lion]

Generally haste > crit = versa > mastery, but sim yourself.

Stats are not that important to focus on, usually a higher ilvl piece wins.

[inner granite]

If you're going to take two affixes into account, those are the last two that would really have any drastic effect on output in my mind

[stoic needle]

whatever top gear in raidbots says is best. there is no specific % number

[thorn turtle]

it simmed haste crit versa mast for me

[inner granite]

Things such as Sanguine, Spiteful, Tornadoes, etc that actually cause dps downtime

[stoic needle]

? fortified and tyrannical have huge implications for output

[inner granite]

would have a greater effect than +x% HP

[stoic needle]

they make single target and aoe more and less important depending on the affix

downtime doesn't change your stat weights or what does the most DPS

[limber lion]

Wut. Zoldyck literally gains massive value depending on how long a target lives. If you pull 30 packs in a dungeon and they all live 40% less time, you do significantly reduced damage with Zoldyck

The more hp a mob has = the longer their execution-phase lasts = the more damage Zoldyck does

Same thing for raids. 2min sims don't value Zoldyck as highly as 10 minute sims.

And it's the opposite for MA. The less time mob packs live for, the higher it's valued.

Because less time in combat = more chances to stealth = more value for MA

[inner granite]

Are people really using a 2min ST sim as their basis for a raid encounter?

[limber lion]

For some kills, yes. The kill times for bosses vary all the way from 2 minutes to like 13 minutes.

[tulip nacelle]

it's not less time in combat it's higher uptime

[limber lion]

5min patchwork isn't end-all-be-all simulation-method. It's very niche. It's just commonly used as the default.

[inner granite]

Perhaps in anything less than mythic content sure, but even Shriekwing on Mythic is going to be Above 3min for excellent group dps, and closer to 4 for most groups

Even @ a 10minute sim, zolds sims 60 dps lower than MA for my rogue

[solid mica]

THANKYOU

[limber lion]

Yes, but it's not the same for all tiers. There's several tiers where the first boss/first few bosses lasted for less than 3 minutes. Especially relevant for people running for speed ranks in Mythic, or like you said, people parsing on Heroic

[limber lion]

Can you link your sims

[inner granite]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wyz7c5F5MQBD2BvKnomVsh

There is a patchwork, 10 min ST Sim comparing all 3 4 legendaries with the "go-to" setup for talents in an ST environment

I will run another with MA talent now

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w9xKUsZUoMs8RWETh7UemZ
Here's my 5 min sim where Zoldyck beats MA by 40 dps.

[inner granite]

Your MA is also poorly stated for sin

Whats it look like with Crit/Haste ring

[limber lion]

That's true, I did create it at 190 for Sub. I'll give a 235 version of haste/crit a go

[inner granite]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hWGr4MbvKpsQnehYPgMbdY Here's a sim @235 for all leggos

Doomblade is almost 100dps ahead of Zolds @ 10min ST patchwerk

this is with CURRENT Doomblade, not even the PTR version

[stoic needle]

it's always been that way

[gleaming eagle]

doomblade is better single target

always been

[limber lion]

Well not really, Envenom bug did pull it down significantly.

[stoic needle]

it's just that the gap between doomblade and zold wasn't big enough before to warrant using it

[vestal wren]

isn't the main issue of doomblade that its buggy?

[gleaming eagle]

ah

[limber lion]

yeah okay there we go

[stoic needle]

currently yeah the dot is affected by armor

[gleaming eagle]

reason why people go zold is because its versatile, good for aoe and okay single target and works well with crimon tempest

crimson tempest

which what most ppl will be using for m+

[balmy condor]

Why not?

[gleaming eagle]

i dont think i use envenom often when i spec into ct

[deft escarp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO5FOUuanYc&t=248s

do you guys saw this already? interesting bug

[limber lion]

It's less time spent actually executing. Right? 36s~ of execute time compared to 180s~

[balmy condor]

But it’s 30%

[limber lion]

And you get more cooldown usage during the window

[subtle tundra]

yes its a ptr bug it wont get to live

clickbait be clickbait

[deft escarp]

yas i hope so

[balmy condor]

We did see that, and we don’t care for that persons videos :)

[subtle tundra]

there's no hope

it wont be on live

[frozen karma]

maybe a 34% chance

[stoic needle]

0%

[deft escarp]

ok good to know :)

[stoic needle]

lmao nvm

[inner granite]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mHoH5yRj7nySnKi8TBV4EW Here is a similar sim I set up earlier, same gear set, same legendary set but for Dslice instead. Zolds still beaten by MA in a Dslice environment.

[safe canopy]

at least for this week i got more dps from MA

just bleed everything and vanish

[limber lion]

Like it makes sense right? Here's even 2 sims that I did where Zoldyck is 30dps worse than MA on 5m PW and 26 dps better than MA on 10m PW

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8jW8F6o3i8JwNvQvNtNuxw

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sJdH4YjLLzwEHQ6kxXY3Xx

[balmy condor]

Yeah, it’s close

But you’re right that it’s better

[limber lion]

And Zoldyck is nowhere to be seen when done on a 2min fight.

[balmy condor]

Probably the cd stuff tbh

On 10 min, you’re getting 2 cd phases im pretty sure

So yeah

Makes sense

[limber lion]

Probably yeah.

[balmy condor]

Cds in execute > not

[limber lion]

And more Shiv's outside of cooldowns as well, which also increases its value surely.

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[quaint briar]

Just curious but why?

[limber lion]

His videos spread false information and are half-assed.

[balmy condor]

^

It’s a bunch of clickbait

And he throws in these weird personal “tips”

Which just end up being wrong

[quaint briar]

Haha good to know. 🙂

[balmy condor]

All he’s gotta do I just read a guide and put it in video form

Can’t do it for some reason

[limber lion]

As an example, he hasn't played Assa at all in Shadowlands and he still put out a video called "How to play Assassination Rogue". Like if I want to watch someone's guide on a spec/class, I would want that person to actually know something about the current spec.

You'll get more valuable and accurate information from this Discord in less time.

[balmy condor]

From very attractive people as well, like ceverion

[quaint briar]

Well it's not like I watch him because he's good, I just like to see many different views. Didn't know he wasn't liked here, although for him never being mentioned here gave a hint that maybe this server doesn't like him that much. xD

[balmy condor]

Oh he’s mentioned all the time

For being a clown

Every “34%” meme you see

Is his fault

[limber lion]

Or the massive knowledge-banks that do a shit ton for the community, like Whispyr. Also hot.

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

But yeah, don't worry. I don't think anyone here has a personal grudge with him. We're just sad/angry that he's probably the most well known rogue "influencer" (hate that word) and he's just half-assing it. Like if he actually put some time and research into his videos, I'm sure they would be great.

[gleaming tinsel]

Would you say that the more whispyr does for the community the more you like whispyr?

Does that mean whispyr scales?

[quaint briar]

Exponentially. 😊

[balmy condor]

Fun fact from the vaults of history, he used to be a shadowblade in here way way way back in the day

[limber lion]

Holy fuck

[gleaming tinsel]

I’m sorry but the one and only rogue influencer will forever be Ming

Rest In Peace

[stoic needle]

what happened to that lol

[balmy condor]

I think he “resigned” (if that’s what you want to call it I guess) to focus on youtube/streaming

[stoic needle]

sad!

[balmy condor]

Yeh

The early days of class discords

What a time

[unique plume]

How old is ravenholdt?

[vestal wren]

rh dates quite a while back

it moved to discord at a certain time

[balmy condor]

Any shadowcraft in the chat?

[vestal wren]

i like the idea of shadowcraft

[obtuse anvil]

RIP shadowcraft

[stoic needle]

is there any relation to shadowpanther

[vestal wren]

no

[obtuse anvil]

shadowpanther is the OG of OGs

[stoic needle]

thats what I remember from vanilla

[obtuse anvil]

shadowcraft as a spreadsheet came about in BC I believe

[vestal wren]

shadowcraft is the attempt to math out the gearing

[obtuse anvil]

and then became a web based UI for a spreadsheet/early sim in later wrath/cata

with armory imports and stuff

[vestal wren]

it always had quite some shortcommings

[obtuse anvil]

it was the forerunner to things like ask mr robot

[vestal wren]

possible yes

askmr is just a attmept to re-invent the wheel instead of using simc

raidbots is the better approch to embrace the existing projects

[obtuse anvil]

amr predates widespread use of locally hosted simc unless my shit memory is playing tricks on me

as a site where you could get reforging and stat recs in cata using some hodgepodge of spreadsheets under the hood

[vestal wren]

amr does not use simc

[obtuse anvil]

similar to how shadowcraft was that but dedicated to rogues, and actually well maintained

[vestal wren]

shadowcraft did point with accessability

but not in accuracy

it was a nice project and i rly think we had some great minds maintaining it

[balmy condor]

Simulationcraft though

[obtuse anvil]

no other class had anything close to shadowcraft until people started adopting simcraft widely

rogue TC stronk

[vestal wren]

rogue in general has a lot of strong tc's with aethys, mystler and koji

[balmy condor]

And fuu

[obtuse anvil]

a storied history stretching back generations

[shy dust]

And Mr cttc is 40 dps

[balmy condor]

Rae I will beat your ass so hard

[vestal wren]

i mainly work on apl, the other 3 actually work on the logic behind that i so far only looked into very surface level

one of the things i rly like to do is to make people look into a sim

[balmy condor]

To be fair, 9000 lines of c++ is a spooky undertaking

[fleet whale]

Rogue TCers may be one of the best TCers around....

But clearly Warlock TCers are the greatest in wow.... /s

[vestal wren]

my excuse is that c++ is very tricky.
I did work with some c++ in university for networking but would not say i know c++ at all

c++ can be very efficient

but its easy to be not if you don't know its oddities

I don't like to talk bad about other discords, overall its not a competition who has the best

idealy everyone spends the same effort into optimization and we have reliable information for everyone

(neverless i think we move a bit #off-topic )

[loud light]

I work with c++ every day but the simc module has a ton of oddities that prevent you from just jumping in

there isn't exactly a quick map of here's where all the stuff is and this interacts with that

[vestal wren]

if you wan to learn the module i think just hopping into the class module is the best

iirc most things are abstracted quite well so it shouldn't be super complicated

[solar flicker]

bro does sin even have an opener

looking through top logs of ma/nf and everyone opens differently LOL

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6a1tQmRx9ThwdMNX#fight=7&type=casts&source=13&view=timeline

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cDa6J8mtfMGgk7Tw#fight=12&type=casts&source=10&view=timeline

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/t8PW2VpA7ZQD6Xhb#fight=27&type=casts&source=15&view=timeline

and guide says to use sepsis from stealth

im so confused bro

[wary ice]

I can say with confidence that ambush GCD delayed Vendetta Mutilate is wrong

[balmy condor]

that first guy is trolling because he's doing a subterfuge opener with ma
that second guy is trolling because he's ambushing, and not casting slice before rupture, and using vendetta before slice/rupture/garrote are up
that third guy would be fine if he didn't ambush from stealth

[deft escarp]

ravenholdt guide

i guess sepsis slightly before shiv

[solar flicker]

ok that seems more normal

i guess the iv opener is some wonky sim one thats like .01% better? rofl

and why is ambushing from stealth wrong if its more dmg

less cps?

[hollow escarp]

combo points generation and poison application I think

[deft escarp]

u can get more cps with mutilate

[solar flicker]

oh ok ty

[hollow escarp]

feels bad though, ambush has a nice sound effect

[solar flicker]

the vanish seems weird to me too honestly

[wary ice]

Is anyone on that can confirm we havea passive in the assa spell book that garuntees poison applications from stealth

I cannot for the life of me find it and wont be able to confirm for a few hours. Its bothering me a lot

its likea clause on something somewhere in there

:/

[balmy condor]

IV opener shouldn't be wonky, seli and me were talking about it, and he doesn't recommend openers that feel like shit for like 5 dps

I think mystler's guides on wowhead are sim openers

[ruby fulcrum]

is it worth using ambush with sepsis proc? the wowhead guide says ambush isn't worth the energy compared to mutilate if not free, and sepsis doesn't make ambush free

[balmy condor]

depends which TC you ask

my sims show no

[limber lion]

I think the reason is that the western realms (Russian/Asia) don't participate in Theorycrafting as much as us or they have their own resources for stuff like that.

[balmy condor]

koji's sims show yes

[wary ice]

no one cares but i found it :^)

[limber lion]

You often see Asians doing some wonky ass stuff.

[unreal laurel]

Any chance you guys can check my logs? I started playing assassination recently and just want to make sure I’m on the right path

[solar flicker]

yes but they do more damage

[wary ice]

pastem

[unreal laurel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GyVjtkNhQdYCAZTK

[wary ice]

Selani?

[unreal laurel]

Yeah

[stoic needle]

its currently bugged on live but functions properly on PTR

[wary ice]

You didnt shiv once on shriekwing

[balmy condor]

he definitely did

9 hits?

[wary ice]

yeah sorry forgot it doesnt show in casts

[stoic needle]

do you know if the improved poisons r2 works while subterfuge is up? and/or could it be worth it to FOK out of stealth with it to get poisons up immediately?

[balmy condor]

quick glance I took at the log seems fine

[balmy condor]

true stealth

[stoic needle]

rip

[balmy condor]

and it wouldn't be worth losing the subt garrote

[unreal laurel]

Sweet, thanks!

[solar flicker]

so how come this opener ambushes from stealth on vanish, and doesnt pool 4 cps for env > mut > env

[wary ice]

id imagine the consistency

same reason there was an argument for TB->mut->env in BFA

[balmy condor]

oh true, the ambush is weird

pooling cp for env mut env is whatever though

[deft escarp]

yes

[balmy condor]

you can vanish mut env mut

[deft escarp]

weird

[balmy condor]

that's fine

[solar flicker]

[balmy condor]

@warm parcel no ambush from vanish tho :) Sims currently ambush only from blindside, or sepsis. Sepsis being debatable. I personally have simmed it and found it to be like 10 dps down, koji's sims have it like 10 dps up. I just tell everyone to only ambush with blindside, up to you

[wary ice]

its so weird to me that ambush is worse than Mut

[solar flicker]

yeah same lol

nvm

[balmy condor]

it is

you don't cast ambush with subterfuge for example

[livid thistle]

You guys think assa will be top raiding spec after patch?

[balmy condor]

it's possible

outlaw still seems really good

[livid thistle]

is outlaw buffed aswell you think?

[wary ice]

Outlaws kit just really fits CN

[livid thistle]

oki thnx guys ^^

should i focus on crit mast for assa?

[shy dust]

if Sin gets big pumper ST then it will be a top raiding rogue spec

[wary ice]

agi>haste crit

[shy dust]

outlaw will look good on wcl cause of its ability to freely aoe

[livid thistle]

that suck kinda got vers gear xD

[stoic needle]

vers/haste is ok as well

overall you want agi and haste

[wary ice]

Crit verse and mast are all fairly close. I generally rec crit because its a 2nd resource gen stat so it can make the spec feel nice to play

more things lighting up and all that

but yeah ilvl>haste will get you most of the way there tbh

[stoic needle]

i find mastery to be moderately worse than crit and vers in my sims

[livid thistle]

Cant wait to be assa again tbh

outlaw isnt bad it just feel liks a catchup game all the time and rng

[stoic needle]

i just fundamentally dont enjoy outlaw's gameplay loops

though ma/ks does seem kinda fun

[slender trail]

is it better to shiv on cd or wait to line it up after refreshed gar/rup/snd and pooled energy?

[upbeat umbra]

Outlaw feels good when your RTB hits well. The other times it just feels like I'm waiting to roll again for better buffs...just to land on the same "bad" one.

[wary ice]

shiv on cd; more accurately you'd try and refresh gar rup snd around your shiv, not the other way around

[slender trail]

right, but i have to imagine it's going to collide somewhat frequently

[wary ice]

not really

[slender trail]

despite best intentions

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor so what is the proper pooling technique for envenom? do you mut to max cp and sit on that until you're about to overcap on energy and then envenom, or do you sit at 2-3cp and then mut>envenom to prevent overcapping

and do you do it in single target only or is it valid for 2-3 targets as well

[wary ice]

at 2-3 targets you shouldnt really need to pool

[balmy condor]

you get finisher level CP and then sit on energy until you overcap

it's only on the envenom condition

[stoic needle]

so if shiv or garotte comes up while you're pooling you just refresh and not worry about that cp you wasted?

[balmy condor]

if shiv comes up in that time, you wouldn't pool during shiv, so you'd shiv and fire off the envenom

[stoic needle]

well yea

i guess its more about garotte then

[balmy condor]

if garrote is refreshable, you would want to finish then garrote

[stoic needle]

ah okay

[balmy condor]

the main reason is just pooling before shiv

but if you pool on envenom instead

you automatically just take care of all single target pooling

[stoic needle]

yeah that makes sense

thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[lean fossil]

@balmy condor how often are you above 75% energy lol

[balmy condor]

idfk

[lean fossil]

and i cant wait for cttc, might actually get some great envenom uptime going

well everytime im in here you guys are always talking about pooling haha

[balmy condor]

that's cause pooling is a confusing topic

I personally don't even do the envenom pooling

cause I can't be fucked

I wait for some energy before shiv, and then go

[upbeat umbra]

Me too.

[lean fossil]

pooling will probably become more important come 9.05 just due to cttc

[stoic needle]

i'm bad at saving energy before shiv so I'm trying out the envenom pooling and its not too bad

[lean fossil]

keep that envenom buff rolling

[balmy condor]

would probably be less important

if anything

[lean fossil]

you think so?

[balmy condor]

having higher uptime on envenom means that clipping some uptime is less valuable

if I clip 2 seconds of envenom on 20 seconds of uptime, versus 2 seconds of envenom on 40 seconds of uptime

the first is 10% clip, the second is 5% clip

so given the choice, the second would be less loss

[lean fossil]

yeah true

[balmy condor]

the argument could be made that you're clipping more when uptime is higher

[lean fossil]

i just want to go back to wod sin lol

[balmy condor]

but that clipping usually happens in shiv windows and vendetta and stuff anyways

which already happens right now

[lean fossil]

yeah but the clipping in those windows dont hurt it nearly as much

[balmy condor]

correct

you don't worry about clipping during shiv at all

if shiv is on, you slam

[lean fossil]

nah

dump all those sweet sweet combo points and energy into the boss

gotta remind him youre there

[vale crane]

surely this bonespike working with exsanguinate is a bug on ptr lol

[lean fossil]

yeah its a bug

it will be fixed

[vale crane]

yea for sure

still funny

[lean fossil]

ptr is the only time you will be able to compete with a druids convoke lol

[balmy condor]

infexious video starting to raise awareness to a bug

it's begun

[vale crane]

idd it has

[lean fossil]

i know you guys dont care for his videos but the dude is funny lol

just take what he says with a grain of salt ll

[cobalt gyro]

maybe its intended; i mean it is a bleed and its having its duration halved every time 😉

[balmy condor]

well we care that he says nonsense

which is why we don't care for his videos

if that makes sense

[lean fossil]

yeah you dont like the misinformation

[spice spire]

I think in whispyr’s case I’d go to the extreme and say that he HATEs misinformation

[cobalt gyro]

thats a bug where theres no point making a vieo about it tbh

[balmy condor]

the war of 8.3

[warm parcel]

@balmy condor o right it still reads there after vanish

[balmy condor]

[cobalt gyro]

report it on ptr, t heres no fkin way it makes it live

[lean fossil]

id say slightly dislike it 😛

[warm parcel]

Cannot login atm dno why

Will swap as soon as I can

[lean fossil]

didnt pay the sub?

[balmy condor]

ty ty

[spice spire]

8.3, you mean the glory days of galecaller’s?

[balmy condor]

I don't think ravenholdt is charging him to have an account to write a guide on ravenholdt

[lean fossil]

thought it was wow lol

[stoic needle]

the problem is that infexious makes videos about dumb shit and we have to spend time cleaning up his mess and correcting people when they come in here to spread the same misinformation

[cobalt gyro]

ya thats why this ones a bug better just left reported on ptr

[lean fossil]

yeah, that can be a real problem

[balmy condor]

34% crit oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

8.3 when sin was moving like #outlaw currently

but every 5th message was "guys i'm at 35% crit why is it recommending I get more?"

"I only have 30% crit do I get a severe instead of a expedient?"

[solar flicker]

my favorite is looking at spec channels on tuesday for vault questions

“Yeah the 226 phial is good but these wrists are simming better because I have 184’s!”

do i take wrist?

[ashen anchor]

My favorite is looking at spec channels when a tooltip changes in patch notes

[dense hamlet]

WH ?

[balmy condor]

at least the amount of stuff you can sim today is much less than 8.3

people's brains melted trying to sim corruption + essences + azerite

[solar flicker]

yet its still too much apparently

[balmy condor]

I remember running so many sims for people

who showed up completely fried

[stoic needle]

these people get phials

[solar flicker]

wish i had an ounce of ur patience whisp

[wary ice]

226 phials are 0 sum game

[solar flicker]

thats what im saying bro

the vault tech is 1 option

[stoic needle]

they dont even deserve

[solar flicker]

and 20iq

[wary ice]

Always convince ppl not to take them so you get a better chance next week

[slender trail]

i just had to pay for premium and sim my 3+m combos every reset and STILL couldn't sim everything

[balmy condor]

I actually go to therapy for anger issues cause I have a bad habit of exploding on people

[solar flicker]

Same but I don’t go to therapy

[stoic needle]

i just smoke weed about it tbh

[lean fossil]

you should really leave infexious alone @balmy condor lol

[stoic needle]

i wanna @ him

so bad

[lean fossil]

wouldnt have to go to therapy then

[dense hamlet]

[balmy condor]

nah, fuck that guy

[stoic needle]

"bro your sims suck shit cut it out"

[balmy condor]

he's an outlet

[lean fossil]

hes the release you need at the end of the day?

[balmy condor]

he says some shit once, fine, twice, okay man, please don't

constantly? get the fuck out

[onyx hemlock]

what information is he at fault of spreading? i dont really know him

[balmy condor]

making mistakes is human, we all make them, I fuck up constantly

but I try to own up to it when it's wrong

and not just let it sit there and mold

[dense hamlet]

Infinitely Divisible Ooze

[balmy condor]

34% crit is the main one, but he doesn't really spread false information, he just has guides, which at the core are fine, and then layers nonsense on top of it

[lean fossil]

i just like how he always claims to be a top 100 ranking rogue

like what?

[solar flicker]

How do you even fuck up regurgitating a guide

Like just read bro

[balmy condor]

it's always phrased as like "this worked for me, this is how I do it, this is personal XYZ"

and then it's followed by like

complete and utter garbage

for 0 reason

[solar flicker]

Whisp the only solution is to start a yt brother

[balmy condor]

like it's not an opinion, it's a fact that you're wrong

and yet he keeps doing it

[lean fossil]

@solar flicker i told him to make guides lol

[onyx hemlock]

that doesnt sound like relevant information for anyone then, glad i havent looked to them for knowledge

[balmy condor]

for anyone that doesn't know the 34% crit thing

in 8.3 we had corruptions, and stacked hella haste

[lean fossil]

the one good thing he does is he gets the ptr notes out on youtube right away lol

[balmy condor]

so people were confused on what secondaries we do after haste

and the correct answer was, and still is "depends on your character, they're all fairly close"

but infexious made a guide

[onyx hemlock]

that seems usually correct

[balmy condor]

and in his guide, he hard stated that you get crit to 34%, and then go mastery

and his character reflected that

[dense hamlet]

man ppl were confused to go iris or not on any content

[balmy condor]

he had like 2 crit gems, to get to 34%, and then full mastery

[solar flicker]

what a chad

i wanna see his logs

[balmy condor]

and so people took the 34% thing

and ran with it

[onyx hemlock]

amazing

[pearl pollen]

I wonder if he uses AMR lol

[spice spire]

Biggest troll of 2020. The mad lad

[balmy condor]

like "oh if you're at 34% crit, then the chance for mutilate to give you 3 cp is 100%"

and like

the most wild napkin math

you have ever seen

[lean fossil]

hey dont hate on AMR, its nice for when i wanna be lazy on an alt

[dense hamlet]

that sounds like frost mage

[onyx hemlock]

napkin math feels like an accurate term here

[balmy condor]

oh no no no bud, we hate on AMR here too

[lean fossil]

but my alts lol

[balmy condor]

AMR on some bullshit

[pearl pollen]

a random 34% break point sounds a lot like something AMR would suggest

[balmy condor]

AMR is like the noxxic of sims

[lean fossil]

is noxxic still around?

[dense hamlet]

i mean he probably just wanted to make shit up just for the sake of it

[balmy condor]

yes and it's really really REALLY bad

their guide for boomy or some paladin spec or something

recommends a talent that doesn't exist anymore

[lean fossil]

god i havent heard anyone talk about that site in forever haha

[pearl pollen]

Noxxic tank rankings are literally missing a spec completely lol (warrior)

[balmy condor]

also wtf is "real dps"

[lean fossil]

lmao im looking at it right now and its gold 😆

[balmy condor]

someone want to explain to me on noxxic rankings

what "real dps" is

[lean fossil]

real dps is the stuff you and i do

[solar flicker]

that means fake dps exists

[lean fossil]

jesus lol did arms get a buff when i wasnt looking

they are top 3 haha

[balmy condor]

except they fucking aren't

[lean fossil]

FIRE BOTTOM!!!!

[balmy condor]

and I've tried to find the data from logs

[solar flicker]

fury is unironically better than arms rn

[balmy condor]

like I've tried to look at logs

to see where they get the info from

and I just can't

[lean fossil]

where do they get this from haha

[balmy condor]

I have no idea

[lean fossil]

if youre fire expect to only do 4.6k real dps

[dense hamlet]

they have a MAX mode and a REAL mode

like

[lean fossil]

but if youre fury, 6.3k is more your liking

[dense hamlet]

and fire mage is literally at the bottom

[balmy condor]

what is a REAL dps

is 1 real dps = 2 dps?

[lean fossil]

oh i know what a real dps is

[gleaming tinsel]

It’s the real damage per second

[lean fossil]

i real dps is a class that doesnt have off specs that are not dps spec lol

[gleaming tinsel]

The only valued dps in the current meta

rdps

[lean fossil]

so rogues, mages, locks, hunters

[dense hamlet]

oh this is true tho

well

they have no aoe rankings?

is it only like 3 target cleave

i wanna see fire mage at the bottom

[balmy condor]

I mean to be fair

a lot of classes don't have robust aoe/dslice support in sims

so comparing them in that regard isn't very easy

[lean fossil]

well time to delete my history, cant have my wife knowing i was looking at noxxic haha

[dense hamlet]

too late

[cobalt gyro]

i was getting so many ticks the game started chugging https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/266347012524474368/816047622795558912/unknown.png

lmao

[balmy condor]

enhancement for example doesn't seem to have an aoe rotation even implemented in sims

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats fair

i just wanted to see where they would put for example fire mage in

[balmy condor]

for reference

the assassination one:

(I had to zoom out that far to get from end to end like the enhance one)

[shy dust]

Rogue really is one of the few classes with actual good apl work it seems

[livid thistle]

what is apl?

[balmy condor]

action priority list

its what those screenshots show

it's a chain of logic conditionals that the simulations use to "play" the spec

[vestal wren]

a lot of sin apl is for talents tho, a lot of diffrent talents enforce gameplay changes.
I am not sure if thats the case on every class