assassination

[frozen karma]

would you recommended burrs or 2 conduits?

I'm seeing a mix in logs

[stoic needle]

Burrs

[strange python]

[frozen karma]

thanks

[versed mica]

how are ptr sin changes looking? They a buff?

[marble bear]

where do we put zoldrycks?

what gear piece?

[balmy condor]

leg

[balmy condor]

yes, we have pins on the matter

[versed mica]

Oh okay whoops, didn't see the last bit on one of the pins mbad

I checked pins first I swear

[balmy condor]

[dense hamlet]

oh he is in this server im surprised

[balmy condor]

who

[dense hamlet]

the ineviatble devisable ooze guy

[balmy condor]

oh yeah

he pops his head in every now and then

[dense hamlet]

huh

[stoic needle]

should i

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

[primal zinc]

good morning assassins

[balmy condor]

tisu and infexious had a spat in off topic a while ago

that was pretty good

[dense hamlet]

how long ago im willing to scroll up or like search

i literally have nothing to do

[balmy condor]

just search for like from:tisu mentions:infexious or something

[strange python]

so i just crafted my first zoldyck last week and now wondering if i should wait b4 upgrading it until ptr changes are finalized

[balmy condor]

or like from:infexious in off:topic or something like that idk

it's somewhere in the bowels of the server

[dense hamlet]

hmm i have alot of time i will find it

[void pecan]

It was a good time

that's all you need to know

[balmy condor]

zoldyck will still be good, dashign/doomblade will be better single target though

[strange python]

ok

ty

[balmy condor]

might've gotten deleted, I can't find it either

[dense hamlet]

yeah

sadge

[dawn moat]

hey guys, why some people say doomblade is bugged right now?
having 7k dust and want to craft some lego this week

[balmy condor]

because the damage is acting weird

https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/issues/812

can read about it here

[regal chasm]

Hmm Doomblade is already simming ~80dps better than zoldyck for me. Considering I play outlaw for M+, I might just go with doomblade for casual raiding as sin

[balmy condor]

yeah, dashing is good as well if you're more into that

[winter gale]

So, at this moment, NF still looks best or atleast same as best for assa for the upcoming times?

[balmy condor]

similar, yes

although venthyr is looking fairly strong

and based on the research I did today (in #tc-research) might even be better with low haste levels

[winter gale]

Ok. I went from Venthyr 4 weeks ago and it was with sooooo heavy heart. Now I will maybe need to go back, especially if things between sub and assa stays like this

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

those sims would put venthyr equal to fae

but the way it stands right now

the conduit is crazy good

so it could actually be better

I'm not convinced it'll stay like this without any additional tuning

but I'm cautiously optimistic

[strange python]

is max level lashing a big dif

[balmy condor]

nah it's not like fire mage conduit type of strong

[strange python]

that's what I was wondering

oh

[balmy condor]

it's just strong in comparison to our otherwise shit conduits

[strange python]

[devout lantern]

hey i'm new like a assassi rogue, anyone can tell me about the convenant , is gonna change in 9.0.5? of fae to vent?

[winter gale]

And flag itself will be good for outlaw too?

Most likely as even this current one isnt bad

So already for 2 specs its good

[balmy condor]

fae and venthyr look very close

[balmy condor]

yes

[winter gale]

Nojs

[balmy condor]

zera you lurker

[gray fjord]

:3

[balmy condor]

cmere give kissies

[winter gale]

Renown flag set is something coolest ever

Tbh

[dense hamlet]

so did u sim 2 pot or duantless duelist?

[gray fjord]

[winter gale]

Renown Venthyr set***

[strange python]

yea I mean its not hard for flag to be better than at least sepsis on outlaw

[balmy condor]

dauntless was winning comfortably

waht

[devout lantern]

anyone can pass me guides ? and help me on openings

[balmy condor]

wrong ping

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[dense hamlet]

well thats better

[strange python]

sepsis damage is so low its sitting down there next to touch of the grave in my sims

[balmy condor]

I did look at double potency combinations, but I didn't touch the new flag conduit

because I think it's very likely to see tuning changes

so I didn't want it influencing my results

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats what im wondering and makes sense

[balmy condor]

I try to always take a very scientific/academic approach to my sims :P

[devout lantern]

what the best legendary ?

[balmy condor]

in 9.0.5 it'll be zold for general purpose, and doom for single target

[gray fjord]

I was actually surprised the new version was as potent as it was, though when I've been noodling around on the PTR I have been doing a master assassin/flagellation setup so I can get a ton of 100% crit shadow damage big boi lashes out really quickly. Sadly vanish just never lines up very well with flagellation casts.

[dense hamlet]

TTB

[solar hare]

Mystler did all the sims comparing with new flag/conduit here https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/266712108861751296/813817426395004948/unknown.png

Lashing scars seems

A bit broken

[balmy condor]

yeah looks very strong

[solar hare]

Making rogue covenant abilties actually doing some damage is

Absurd to me

[gray fjord]

We seem to forget convoke exists and its conduit is way more absurd.

xD

[dense hamlet]

very good they better not mess around with it

[devout lantern]

ttb?

[solar hare]

Truth

[dense hamlet]

nono im a joker

[solar hare]

But ~70 dps increase from that conduit for rogues

[gray fjord]

We're just so used to our covenant abilities being trash at this point I think

[solar hare]

Is pretty large

[gray fjord]

Like blizz Gaslighted all rogue covenants on purpose to make you feel good when we get a buff to one XD

[strange python]

wheres that chinese player that all of the rogues listen to

[devout lantern]

u can explain more about the zold, he is to execute no?

[solar hare]

Lmao

[strange python]

will pay him to use tiny toxic blade in sire sim

so they all use it

[balmy condor]

yes

[strange python]

sire kill *

[devout lantern]

for m+? is good?

[balmy condor]

yes

[devout lantern]

tyvm

[dense hamlet]

i mean its not nearly as good as convoke or shifting power

[devout lantern]

any changes for me pay more attntn?

[dense hamlet]

better get even more buffs on flag

[balmy condor]

regarding what?

[devout lantern]

idk new changes

[balmy condor]

all in the pins

[strange python]

📌

[tender fjord]

That sbs exsang gif is still burned in my eyes. It would be nuts if it made it to live, but it kinda would double down on assassinations execute. Which I like as flavour

The dmg on the gif is nuts, but not really something you can replicate in situations other than a dummy.

Just on mythic bosses we would suddenly become the top dps’ers in later phases. Which make me think it will surely not make it to live 😂😅

How often does shit suddenly unintentionally break in ptr?

[gray fjord]

The real question is-

How often does it NOT unintentionally break on the PTR. xD

[dense hamlet]

didnt fire mage break in ptr and make it to live

seems like it

[slow marsh]

Here's my question for now. Obviously doomblade looks very promising. At what point does execute from zold outweigh the raw gains of doomblade? Is there any way to see that or will it just be feelcraft/group preference

[balmy condor]

depends on the fight

I don't see doom being the play on like sire prog

cause p1 and 2 are worthless for example

[slow marsh]

I'm assuming if there's ever anything other than the boss that can die then zold wins

[balmy condor]

well not really

hungering is a great example of a doomblade over zold

hungering has no inherent need for that execute, so 3% dps you're getting from doom over zold

is quite real

[ornate raptor]

Any other bosses?

[slow marsh]

True but if you're doing mechanics and outgearing the prog then it's just mechanics anyways in which execute isn't as important

[balmy condor]

probably good on sludge, good on shriek, inerva, would be good on xymox

[slow marsh]

Also I read doomblade ticks are not hasted and can't crit. Is this correct? I know there's some bugs with it floating around

[balmy condor]

if you're looking for just boss damage on slg, probably the play as well

[balmy condor]

doomblade bleed works similar to mage ignite where it's a rolling dot

[slow marsh]

Slg zold probably better because exe on adds that need to die as well as once you get to p3 double execute

[balmy condor]

yeh but p3 is the joke part of the fight, dunno, it's a weird one

sin isn't really good at the add shields, but the execute isn't that important either

and you can't burst aoe on the adds

it's just a jank fight

[gray fjord]

I'd imagine it really just depends if you want your DPS to matter at the correct time/place in a fight.

[slow marsh]

So what you're saying is that I'm saving for 235 doomblade while I continue to hold out hope that by some miracle 5 people get benched on mythic prog so I finally get a chance to prove sins worth??

[gray fjord]

If that time is throughout the entire encounter, then execute damage isn't nearly as relevant as overall sustain/throughput

[solar flicker]

Being benched on slg is a blessing brother

at least sin has a good argument for denathrius

[slow marsh]

I mean tbh I value execute highly but my raid lead and other dps only care about LOOK BIG NUMBER

[solar flicker]

Depends on the fight

p3 is such a joke on slg

killed it today after seeing it one time with everyone up basically

[balmy condor]

execute is nothing for something like shriek or altimor or hungering or inerva or xymox is the thing

like yes, execute is cool

but it's also just not needed a lot of the time

[solar flicker]

Ive been peeping assa for sire prog tho 👀

[faint harness]

You can argue about zoldyck, but can do the same for doomblade, why would you want more ST dmg on a fight where boss dmg is mostly irrelevant until P3

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's my situation is that when raid gets within 20% it's a kill that week or next anyways so what's the point

[faint harness]

If i were to personally make a build for slg i cant see any other than zoldyck being relevant

• the execute on the heal immune adds seems like a nice role to fill

[slow marsh]

I mean

[balmy condor]

zold would probably defacto win on just the cleave alone

[slow marsh]

You would want more throughput earlier in the fight to phase things

[balmy condor]

but sin is just dog at slg to begin with

[faint harness]

Its topping boss dmg on logs

But yea it doesnt really deal with the crucial points very well

[balmy condor]

would you take it for that?

[faint harness]

No

[balmy condor]

I see

[slow marsh]

Sins problem vs most other specs is that it can't cleave for free

[balmy condor]

what

sin cleave is hella good

[faint harness]

We held boss dmg for like up to a minute in our strat, more boss dmg unless p3 is pointless

[slow marsh]

It's good

But outlaw cleaves for free

[gray fjord]

Hey now

It's a GCD

[slow marsh]

UH cleaves for free

[gray fjord]

[slow marsh]

Monk even cleaves for free

[balmy condor]

whats your definition of free

[slow marsh]

No boss damage lost

[solar flicker]

anything other than outlaw is kinda just trolling on slg

[balmy condor]

sin gains boss damage by cleaving tho

[faint harness]

Assa actually even gains from cleave, not just free

[solar flicker]

even just being mediocre on it

[faint harness]

I did it as sub last reclear

[slow marsh]

Yes but 4+

[solar flicker]

thats the dream

[balmy condor]

4+ what

[slow marsh]

Like hunts we are really good

I mean when you get to 5+ not 4

When you can't really keep up bleeds

[balmy condor]

we're best at like 2-3 target

yeh

[slow marsh]

Yes 2-3 no arguement

[faint harness]

Is there any aoe burst legendary for sin? MA?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[slow marsh]

But those other classes smash anything with adds without changing anything

[solar flicker]

Ct crits poggies

[balmy condor]

I was thinking about nightstalker HB MA

but uh

sketch

[slow marsh]

Even if it's just tab rupturing

[faint harness]

Oh HB

Could work

Actually

[balmy condor]

HB + katar + MA + nightstalker

is a pretty meaty fok

but it's just that fok and that's it

so like

you would 5cp, vanish CT fok

or something

[low girder]

you might beat out a killing spree

[faint harness]

Well you pre-prep the adds with ruptures on all

[slow marsh]

A

[balmy condor]

basically any aoe burst you're wanting to do has to include MA and nightstalker imo

and the problem with nighstalker is that it's 1 ability

and that's it

[faint harness]

Aoe exsang when

[balmy condor]

like vein rippers

could be a thing

for aoe burst

[faint harness]

Yea

[balmy condor]

but sin toolkit otherwise, doesn't really have that

[faint harness]

Neither does any other rogue spec, but yea. Probably worst at sin

[balmy condor]

I'm curious how hard that fok would hit let me try rq

[low girder]

i was about to ask

how much dmg would that setup actually do

[faint harness]

It has to be like

10k each

For it to beat other things

[balmy condor]

that's probably a tall order

[faint harness]

Ok

Say

7k each

[balmy condor]

I'm 216 with my MA equipped and fok is 714 base damage on tooltip

[faint harness]

Hb is 100%?

Nah must be more

[balmy condor]

400%

[faint harness]

Yea

[balmy condor]

so the plan for me

is gonna be EP

into a chunky vanish fok

[low girder]

wow, that AP scaling is uh..

[faint harness]

5600 + nightstalker?

[low girder]

well i'm at 221 and FoK is 727 on tooltip

lol

[ocean drum]

with HB this would mean 714 * 5 = ~3.5k + katar ~ 4k, 50% with nightstalker would be 6k, crit 12k?! seriously?

[low girder]

meanwhile killing spree is 8.7k for me

on tooltip

[ocean drum]

per hit though.

[faint harness]

Tornado bp is 4x black powder at 6-7k each non crit

So about 20k per bp

80k dmg in 4 seconds

[faint harness]

Thats not bad

[balmy condor]

that's with katar and korayn wild hunt as well

[faint harness]

Oh wild Hunt

[balmy condor]

so knock off ~900 dps

[faint harness]

I mean its only 15%

[balmy condor]

10%

[faint harness]

Right

Could work

[ocean drum]

still, just every 40 sec :/

[faint harness]

Could make you not useless on it at the very least

[balmy condor]

well

every 2 min

cause vanish for mA

[faint harness]

Yea lol

[ocean drum]

out of combat though

[balmy condor]

and you need nightstalker

[ocean drum]

not enough for m+ 😦

[balmy condor]

let me see what a non-stealth fok would do

[faint harness]

• you cant spread poisons on skirmishers if you want to keep the buff

[ocean drum]

still CT i guess

[low girder]

yeah in an M+ environment you're losing a lot off no subterfuge

[balmy condor]

okay you know what

that's not bad

out of stealth, crits for 6.3

2/3 crit, 5k average

[dense hamlet]

wait what happend did we scale or smthin

[balmy condor]

that's actually pretty respectable

[balmy condor]

we're not talking about M+

in m+ you're going subterfuge by default

[faint harness]

Its a very specific scenario

[balmy condor]

which breaks everything

[faint harness]

On slg burst aoe requirement

There are assassination rogues that killed it

[balmy condor]

how much does a grimz tech do

[faint harness]

Lots off dmg

[balmy condor]

yeah assumed as much

[faint harness]

At least if you have his gear

Think his bp per use on the actual commando burst is 20k ballpark

X4

[balmy condor]

lul

at least I have almost 10k fok crits

when I full cheese

thanks

X1

[faint harness]

But you also sac everything

To do that

[balmy condor]

yeah

love it

[faint harness]

Grimz tech that is

[balmy condor]

and I don't?

[faint harness]

Tornado feels quite trashy

Yea you do i guess

Outlaw is the winner

I think

[balmy condor]

oh for sure

[faint harness]

For the non-janky, easy gameplay

[balmy condor]

especially KSMA

[faint harness]

Yep

Its a lot of dmg too

[balmy condor]

KSMA is actually just what we're doing on sin atm

but better

[faint harness]

Luckily this is prob a one off boss

And this scenario isnt relevant again

One can hope

[low girder]

surprise zul is back

[balmy condor]

I'm tempted to play subt HB in some keys this week

just to see

4 seconds of ma

[faint harness]

Zul should be in the maw, whispering sub players that run past him

[balmy condor]

= 3 garrotes and a big fok

[faint harness]

”I got the last laugh” or some shit

[strange python]

spine of deathwing 2

inc

[low girder]

zul is the final boss of TC layer 16

but only for sub

[faint harness]

When he dies

He takes all anima powrs from you

[balmy condor]

"I remember this being more painful"

[reef axle]

so any chance we see a change from nf to venthyr for best covenent pve?

[balmy condor]

kinda? they're all very close

[reef axle]

hmm would pref venth

[balmy condor]

then play that

[faint harness]

Unless nerf

I am venthyr from 9.0.5

[balmy condor]

conduit nerf won't change the strenght

covenant nerf

would

[faint harness]

Really

But ppl say the conduit is whats broken

[balmy condor]

well at least all of my evaluations have been without conduit

and show equal

[faint harness]

Ah okay

[wind nacelle]

So

Is flagellation just us ewhenever or?

Use*

[balmy condor]

I'm glad you ask

I wrote a dissertation on the subject in #tc-research

[low girder]

you also discovered reverse scaling

thanks for that

[balmy condor]

the true sin scaling

📉

[low girder]

buffer overflow spec

[faint harness]

How is that possible

I dont get it

[balmy condor]

honestly not sure

[faint harness]

The sync makes sense tho

Bote stuff

[balmy condor]

will have to investigate more

[faint harness]

Just smack all into vend

[balmy condor]

yeh stacking cooldowns is sick

the sync is a lot better with flag than it is for sepsis

[low girder]

unholy did it and was pretty OP

sin 📈

[faint harness]

Flag is very nice with extra energy

Stack gains

Pog

[balmy condor]

now that I think about it

no

it's too late for this

resist the urge

[low girder]

lol

[balmy condor]

put it off for tomorrow

[faint harness]

Good decision

[balmy condor]

more stream content that way

[faint harness]

Your title said ”short stream”

Was it short?

[balmy condor]

it was

[faint harness]

Suspicious

[wind nacelle]

Turned on and off

Kek

[balmy condor]

my internet hard crashed right when I was done getting all the sims formatted

so I said fuck it and just turned stream off without saying anything

[faint harness]

Best streamer NA

I missed that part anyway

[balmy condor]

was almost 2 hours

that's pretty short

[faint harness]

True actually

I thought you had been going for a while when i tuned in

[balmy condor]

nah you joined like 15 minutes in

maybe even less

[faint harness]

Fair enough

[strange python]

[stoic needle]

Wow

I go watch attack on titan for a few hours and I miss this giga hb katar tech

Considering we don't fok until 4t this could actually be pretty decent

I want to try this now

But it's tyrranical week...

[balmy condor]

problem is CT isn't baseline

[stoic needle]

Yeah

You don't get PB either

[balmy condor]

fuck PB tho

PB is the backstab of sub

we try and avoid that shit at all costs

[stoic needle]

I like pb

[balmy condor]

I'll play HB katar on single target just to avoid PB watch me

[stoic needle]

I just wish it wasn't random

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

nah I like PB too

[lament dove]

actually HB is better than PB on single target imho

[balmy condor]

it's just so dumb

[stoic needle]

Did you sim single target CT with doomblade yet

[balmy condor]

oh shit

no

I can do that real quick

[stoic needle]

I bet it's marginally stonks

[ocean drum]

use PTR doomblade :3

[stoic needle]

I bet it could come close to pb tbh

[ocean drum]

i think not since is uses the CP

CP usage on CT is more than +5%

[stoic needle]

What if you used it before a shiv window only

[ocean drum]

well.. total dmg of CT on 5 cp is higher than a 5cp envenom..

[stoic needle]

I mean right now, optimal envenom usage is only when you're about to overcap energy unless shiv/vendetta/lust is up in which case you spam it

Afaik

I feel like you could fit ct in there

But maybe the optimal envenom usage changes a bit now that the envenom buff doesn't pandemic anymore. Maybe we want to try to space out the buff evenly

[tribal marlin]

oh so you did sim with Flag sync ?

how is it with base sync like Flag every 2mn

is it a loss ?

[balmy condor]

can read all about it in #tc-research

[tribal marlin]

ok sure

[lament mica]

@balmy condor i went venthyr and im prob making doomblades just in preparation of the patch, if the changes get scrapped then oops, but I can't be fucekd to switch around covs. based on the sims you've been doing shoudl I make my doomblades vers/haste or vers/crit cuz im gonna do pvp

kinda did it for memes

[balmy condor]

vers/haste is fine

[lament mica]

ok cool ty

[glass breach]

How well do we thing sin is gonna do in m+with new changes

[tribal marlin]

Have you try to use the same sync I did for Sepsis as well ? It is made so that it will never miss a cast of neither Seps or Vendetta delaying

so it sync less, but never lose cast

I was curious how it was going for Flag but I was lazy to dive int oxD

[lament mica]

did anyone bother to make a flag WA btw that shows when its about to run out

im sure no1 bothered lmao so sad of an ability why did id o this

[tribal marlin]

You can easily do this or maybe find this on wago

But it will no longer be necessary in 9.0.5

[lament mica]

yeah i know they are making it into an actual ability

oh i found 1 ty

[glass breach]

Bleed build inc

[obtuse ruin]

when will exsang be back boys?

[balmy condor]

never

[obtuse ruin]

can we get exsang back to 400% already

[glass breach]

Not even with 9.0.5?

[balmy condor]

exsang isn't viable with 120% haste on gear

nothing to buff bleed damage = no exsang

[glass breach]

Doomblade buff? Or is that still trash

Even after buff

[balmy condor]

doomblade is good, but it doesn't exsang

[glass breach]

That doesn't go with exsang? And the venth changes? Sigh I got a slight hope there

[tribal marlin]

Doomblade is no regular dot. It does not crit, it is not hasted. It basically work the same way as Ignite

[balmy condor]

venthyr is good

[tribal marlin]

You can see Doomblade as a flat +45% damage on Mutilate

[glass breach]

I was thinking doomblade would make exsang, rupture, and gar do more dmg but I am rusty with sin

[tribal marlin]

Tho Doomblade dot IS increased by damage amp debuff such a Vendetta or Sinful revelation beside mutilate already increased by these, so kinda double dip here

[strange python]

do u guys sleep

[tribal marlin]

but it might be a bug

[balmy condor]

no

coming up on 3am

[stoic needle]

Absolutely not

[tribal marlin]

imagine sleepng

[glass breach]

What's sleep?

[stoic needle]

No sleep, only sin

[strange python]

west coast

almost 5 here

[stoic needle]

sim*

[balmy condor]

not looking good btw

[stoic needle]

I'm east coast

[stoic needle]

[strange python]

east coast

not living with rednecks

[balmy condor]

I found 0.4% on default CT

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

but that still makes it 0.7% down from PB

which is like

okay?

idk I'm pretty fried

but I don't think there's much there

[stoic needle]

There's gotta be something

I want it to be true

[balmy condor]

let me try one more thing

and then I need to go to bed

[stoic needle]

Sleeping

[balmy condor]

I have class in the morning :P

[stoic needle]

Did you see my idea above

[rocky ruin]

what you guys mean by reverse stats?

[stoic needle]

Ct into shiv window

[rocky ruin]

that haste is kinda worse in 9.05

[balmy condor]

yeah that's what I'm checking now

[balmy condor]

the reverse scaling is in relation to the sync stuff I did in #tc-research

the sync seems to be worth more for lower haste profiles

so eventually as you get more haste, it would seem that the sync is not worth it anymore

[rocky ruin]

was kinda curios about the haste in the vendetta window if that cause a backslash with to much haste in the end

but that could kinda change alacrity in some points if the other talents would better in that row if i'm not mistaken

[balmy condor]

it's doing it, it's just not good

like it's trying it's hardest

but it's so bad

[stoic needle]

Oh well

I'm going to try it anyway to see how big of an envenom I can get

[frail fossil]

ososhi running dangerously low on copium

u love to see it

[stoic needle]

EP ct NS doomblade envenom

[balmy condor]

DEEEEEEEEPER STRAT VIABLE POOOOOOOGGGGGGGG

[stoic needle]

That's big talk for a future sin reroller

Need I remind you of the screenshot

[frail fossil]

if i reroll sin next tier

i will rename myself in ososhisimp

[stoic needle]

Saved

[stoic needle]

I forgot about deeper strat, I need to sim and see if I run that in 9.0.5

[balmy condor]

oh if you're going venthyr you definitely do

it's not even a question

it's like 1% over vigor for basically every venthyr profile I've tested in the last 3 days

[stoic needle]

Dang it's just better off the jump? Nothing else required?

Damn

I love it

What apm is deeper strat venthyr sin

[balmy condor]

obviously shifts depending on haste

but like 50-51ish

[stoic needle]

We arms now

[strange python]

[limber lion]

I've done it boys.

R1 HC. Peen is history.

[frail fossil]

pog

did peen stop raiding tho

been stuck at 7/10 for years now

[bleak sedge]

Dayum!

[faint harness]

probably just reached his peak

[tribal marlin]

Btw @balmy condor Deeper stratagem

are we really going into that

[frail fossil]

it's still really funny how he got 100 on literally every mythic boss he killed

[faint harness]

its easy when ur the only one doing some actual prog

[frail fossil]

he say assa getting buffed and was like NO, i only play it when it's bad

yeah p sure all of that is pre buff

[balmy condor]

?

[tribal marlin]

I don't ever remember playing assa with DS

gonna be pog

[balmy condor]

Legion

[faint harness]

what did you play in 8.3

was it still vigor?

[balmy condor]

That too

I personally try to avoid thinking about 8.3 as much as possible

[frail fossil]

with expedient was deeper

[tribal marlin]

I stoped playing 8.3 when they added the corruption vendor haha

[bleak sedge]

I stopped after uldir lmao

[limber lion]

He did do a heroic run 4 days ago. Not sure about his mythic progression.

[frail fossil]

ah alright, maybe he just stopped mythic prog, or he is hard stuck sludge for months now which i doubt lol

[limber lion]

Oh nevermind he killed mythic Shriekwing 3 days ago

Guess he's just stuck.

[frail fossil]

[limber lion]

Maybe they're just busy reclearing

[frail fossil]

team titanium does not have any mythic boss kills tho

[limber lion]

Yeah cleared up to Sludge and had 22 wipes on it :'))

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3LYcr1ZVPtGxa8nB#fight=5&type=damage-done

[frail fossil]

[limber lion]

Sludge was piss easy with the nerfs and 222 average item level.

[frail fossil]

idk just went on it lol

it does seem pretty easy tho

got it to last pillar on fight night, our dps is pretty bad tho ngl

[limber lion]

They had 25 wipes yesterday as well

Yeah, it's not a huge wall anymore honestly. Took our guild 43 pulls to down it

SLG on the other hand...

[opaque viper]

best leggo for raiding??

[frail fossil]

zoldyck

[limber lion]

I can't wait for 9.0.5 and all of the new shiny thingymabobs

[shy axle]

would love to switch to venthyr ngl

[unreal fern]

I wonder how rogue spec will change in 9.0.5 but w8 .. anyway all spec are shit in raids ;d

[reef axle]

no release on 9.0.5?

[fallow otter]

heroic tho?

not a bad minigame i guess

[limber lion]

I don't get the hate for heroic. You LITERALLY cannot do mythic because it's gated behind your guild and weekly clears. I will NOT kill any of the first 8 Mythic bosses for at least a month becuase we're extending until SLG/Sire are down, so how the fuck am I supposed to parse on them

Heroic is the one way where ANYONE can go in and do a kill at ANYTIME.

It's not gated behind anything.

There's 25k+ assa rogue parses on heroic and 2k on mythic. I'm happy that I'm doing the best out of those 25k and I enjoy my time wholst doing it, so what's wrong with it?

It's such a dumb, ignorant thing to say.

"Oh you can't parse well on Mythic"

Can't parse when you PHYSICALLY CANNOT even touch the boss

Don't see you at rank 1 on this "minigame", nor Mythic.

[tropic ocean]

rage is real

[limber lion]

Go do a Heroic run and let me know how it went for you.

[tropic ocean]

450k gold

think it went good

[tribal marlin]

hm did you paid

[tropic ocean]

😄

[tribal marlin]

for the PI I mean 😄

[limber lion]

Nothing. I didn't even ask for PI.

[tribal marlin]

what

[limber lion]

Also, PI =/= 1k more dps.

It's not like it triples your dps

[tribal marlin]

I need to sell my sister to maybe have that priest considering giving me PI

and you're is like giving it to you for free >.<

[tropic ocean]

just change ur gameclient to chinese

+2k dps

[limber lion]

Disc priest just sent me a whisper saying "I like your logs, I give you PI"

No way in hell am I paying for it

I've got 90k gold in my bag, I'm poor as dicks

Barely can afford to buy a base legendary for Doomblade

Also if you go through my logs and look at some of the rank 1's, most of the time I didn't get PI.

Just this most recent run that I did yesterday.

Imagine enjoying the game and doing content what you want and you get bashed for it.

[tropic ocean]

https://www.twitlonger.com/

gl

[limber lion]

You don't see people flaming 1600 rated players for being stuck there, or m+ players who keep doing keys but can't get higher r.io

So why is heroic getting such a bad rep? Literally anyone can do it. Doesn't require mythic experience, 2400 rating on arena, 2500 score on r.io

[tribal marlin]

Sorry if you felt like I bashed you !

[limber lion]

It's the most neutral playing ground for everyone.

[tribal marlin]

Was not the case dude ^^

[limber lion]

Alright no worries mate.

[tribal marlin]

Just joking around the fact that my priest is litterally telling me "I rather PI myself than PI a rogue"

[limber lion]

I like you and yoyr theorycrafting, so getting bashed by someone like that is not a great feeling.

Makes me feel even more shit.

But yeah, no worries.

I'm gonna cool off.

[tribal marlin]

And Assa is currently quite a good PI target as well

and yeah you probably would have done great without PI aswell btw. Enjoy the game as you want to enjoy it dude @limber lion

[vague scroll]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[wind nacelle]

Diesnt muti give insta 4cp depending on talent choices?

[faint harness]

problem is that its sort of special olympics because few of the more hardcore mythic raiders engage in the content for log reasons. It's basically boosters and heroic only raiders (aint nothing wrong with that, just makes the logs kinda uninteresting)

[agile geode]

Does more dmg and combo point

Venthyr is better than kyrian in 9.0.5?

Would like to switch

Ill do only it venthyr will be good on outlaw aswell

[tribal marlin]

Then you can safely change

[agile geode]

Only if

[tribal marlin]

nothing is final yet but we expect Venthyr to be extremely good on Assa, very good on Outlaw and competitive on Sub

[agile geode]

Kk thx

[grizzled owl]

what a great news tbh

fucking fed up of being a pirate fae

or a pirate an gle

wanna be a vampyr assassin _

vampire*

[faint harness]

Its like 100 dps above NF/Kyr as sub, dunno if that just qualifies as competitive

actually think sub is the spec that gains the most out of it with what i assume is 0 APL optimization

[subtle kiln]

think competitive with the other covenants for sub, maybe I’m misinterpreting.

[faint harness]

yea within the spec right

and if venthyr is 100 dps above the 2nd best option, its not just competitive in that spec

its blasting the others away

[subtle kiln]

yep

[faint harness]

But as i said, not sure if fuu or mystler has done any optimization on the APL

like has been done for sin/outlaw now

[subtle kiln]

mystler had told me no, but they may have changed

[faint harness]

its prob low prio since its the black sheep of rogue

[subtle kiln]

it’s mystler & fuu’s baby so doubt that. i just know RL is taking over Mystler right now.

[unreal fern]

whats the difference venthyr vs rest for sin and outlaw atm?

I mean in 9.0.5

hm in pings venthyr is after nf, no?

[shy axle]

very strong in9.0.5 if it stays as it is rn

what does venthyr sinc mean regarding the usage in tc research?

[faint harness]

sync with vendetta

so you dont use it on CD

you use it every 2 min

[reef axle]

Will prob be switching honestly. Hoping it remains as is, but venthyr seems more entertaining

So 30 seconds of pooling the CD 😦

[faint harness]

yea its the same as BOTE

in bfa

you held that for 30 sec

[reef axle]

We still shiv off CD don’t we, no changes there?

[crisp edge]

my problem with venthyr currently is that you are litearlly losing 1 major conduit regardless of who you chose and that just feels like shit

the rework is nice but ... idk

[fallow otter]

its not hate, and its not that you cant do mythic so that means you're bad or something. its more that there are alot of people not even doing heroic anymore

like i said, fun mini game i guess

[agile geode]

Flag cd is 2 min?

[faint harness]

no but you align it with vendetta

which means you sit on it for 30 seconds

[tribal marlin]

Didn't notice it was that high on Mystler sims for sub

when I tested it on my char it was not that big or

maybe I had another chart in mind which obviosuly was not including Lashing Scars

It's not exactly that easy. I mean Whispyr found solid gain by just syncing it with Vendetta so you can probably just go for that, but at higher level of gear the gain is neutral or even a loss when you loose Flag cast

so the logical is "Delay Flag if you don't loose Flag cast, or rather delay Vendetta if you don't loose Vend cast."

Like on 5mn you would probably delay Vendetta rather than Flag because otherwise you loose a cast of Flag

but on 3mn you delay Flag

[reef axle]

Might aswell macro it to vendetta then lol

[static pasture]

!bis

[timber gale]

when running Crimson Tempest, when do I fit it into a ST rotation, like on a boss pull

been finally trying it

[fallow otter]

unless its changed, you dont

[timber gale]

kk

[stoic needle]

It is a dps increase to use it on single target but it's a small one

[fallow otter]

depends on your haste or no?

[tender fjord]

Is the dps increase bigger in execute because of Zoldyck?

Or no difference in execute vs no execute

[stoic needle]

It's just always a gain

[coral imp]

ohh ok

ive been using it if theres a mechanic i know is coming up and i have full bleeds refeshed

would it be good in huntsman

[stoic needle]

Meh not really

There's too many gaps in the uptime of 2 targets to use ct on hunts

[tender fjord]

But that doesn’t matter if it’s a minor increase on ST already right? Or am I now missing something

[carmine fable]

Is there any chances assassin is getting better in 9.0.5?

I mean is it going to be worth changing spec to assa for PVP/raid?

[coral imp]

losing soul shape for pvp 😦

[stoic needle]

It does bc poison bomb is decent on cleave, you'd need the dogs stacked next to huntsman 90% of the time or more and also not die for ct to be better than PB

[stoic needle]

Yes it's going to be competitive with outlaw and better than sub and overall damage wise one of the top melee specs

[strange python]

Are you referencing assassination being good once 9.0.5 drops, oshosi?

[celest ruin]

well always get better since we S C A L E

[tame lake]

I just stared arenas on my new sin and it feels pretty good so far in 2s. Pairs with a healer better than sub imo

[shy axle]

Is Vent only simming better for 9.0.5 due to the conduict which seems to be tuned quite high like cto or is it also better standing on its own in comparison to now?

[lilac sparrow]

doomblade bug in ptr?

[faint harness]

Doomblade is bugged

[strange python]

So once they fix doom, it'll go back down. Haha

Sub is more fun for me, anyway...so I am just going to stick with sub. I enjoy the shadow dance mechanic.

[trim zinc]

wat??

[faint harness]

No its a bad bug

Something about dot ticks not doing the dmg it should

[icy crater]

so when fixed it should sim higher? or

or its simming too high

[faint harness]

Its not simming with any bug iirc

So the sim dmg shouldnt change

[lilac sparrow]

so live dps will be great

[icy crater]

I see

[lilac sparrow]

I saw Venthyr sin definitely beat outlaw for ST

[faint harness]

Yea

Its not about venthyr tho

The cttc change and vw buff makes it better

[lilac sparrow]

buffed doomblade also 🙂

[icy crater]

I'm going NF anyways cuz I pvp

Switching from kyrian this week

[lilac sparrow]

I always choose my spec for single target dps

I feel ST is real dps competition

[faint harness]

Its always valuable

[lilac sparrow]

should prepare double dagger 🙂

[icy crater]

Is flag bugged on ptr? I want to test it in pvp actually before i switch

[faint harness]

Its not

[lilac sparrow]

I have seen three M+ 226 gears from EVERY shadowland weekly chest... but no 226 outlaw weapon

wish dagger will not...

[dull fulcrum]

I've seen a lot of time the word cttc, what does it mean?

[shy axle]

cut to the chase

your envenoms refresh snd

[dull fulcrum]

@shy axle Tyty

[trim zinc]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE UPGRADE

HAH

[honest quest]

yo guys can i push high keys like +20 as assa?

cuz my friends says that its not possible without outlaw

[lethal notch]

Im leveling a sin rogue, who are the best content creators on youtube to watch?

[dark vigil]

All suck

[lethal notch]

Ah beans

[tropic ocean]

in pug probably not

[faint harness]

Watch folklores

[tropic ocean]

in fixed group sure

[faint harness]

You can do it in pug too

99% sure

But you cant be an average gamer

[hushed sphinx]

How did this happen

[tropic ocean]

99% sure u cant in pug

[faint harness]

If you care about m+

You can

20s is not very high

[tropic ocean]

go do it

[faint harness]

I dont care about m+

[tropic ocean]

xdddddddd

[frail fossil]

eh u can

[faint harness]

Wdym, i have guildies doing 20 pugs

[tropic ocean]

as assassination rogue?

[frail fossil]

20s aren't hard anymore

[faint harness]

With non-meta specs

Its rough but possible

Easier to just swap to outlaw

[tropic ocean]

xddd

[frail fossil]

idk u're always talking weird dude

being condescending

and u have nothing to back that attitude up

[faint harness]

Because he is weird, its old

[tropic ocean]

except for playing assassination whole last expack when it wasnt as shit in keys as now

[frail fossil]

and

[tropic ocean]

an already getting kicked after inspected

despite high rio

xd

[frail fossil]

you're projecting

[faint harness]

Getting into groups prob the biggest obstacle

[frail fossil]

get into pugs, find friendly people, impress them, be friendly too, add them

and here u go

u can do 20s as assa

[tropic ocean]

and i havent said you cant

😉

but gl pugging them

[frail fossil]

"99% sure u cant in pug"

[tropic ocean]

y

now read

[frail fossil]

that sound pretty close to saying u cant

[icy crater]

he's saying 99% so when you call him out for saying you can't he can say he didn't say you can't lmfao

[frail fossil]

haha i didn't say you cant cuz i said 99% and not 100%

got em

[icy crater]

checkmate

[carmine dawn]

knock knock knock is this thing on?

[tropic ocean]

i said u cant in pug

[strange python]

Just ignore him, no point in arguing with him

[tropic ocean]

not that u cant do the keys

you cant do 20s when u dont get into them no

[carmine dawn]

does rogue poison snapshot?

[tropic ocean]

btw theres 2 assassination rogues in the world that did 20s

3 keys in total each

[carmine dawn]

bump

[frail fossil]

cool

[restive bluff]

yo gius

guys

will garrote and rupture ticks crit if we open with MA lego from stealth?

[icy crater]

you can put dots up and vanish and they will crit

but they dont snapshot

[trim zinc]

subt talent??
it does snapshot dont?

[coral imp]

they did 20s

its just hard to get into higher keys as sin

and some of these 20s were almost a month ago

[trim zinc]

but u can

[coral imp]

u can

for sure

[restive bluff]

so u mean as long as im in stealth the dots will crit?

[trim zinc]

ya

that works

[icy crater]

as long as you are in stealth or have the MA legendary buff out of stealth they will crit. If the buff goes away they won't have 100% crit any more

[restive bluff]

so on a fight where there is a need to move for a period of time i put my dots on boss then vanish ?

[trim zinc]

if u have MA leggo maybe but i think its better to burst with vendetta

[tropic ocean]

@coral imp u realize that peen is playing with tank fmage premade right?, actually hes playing in full premade, just few keys where some1 probably wasnt available (monk tank, resto druid, firemage, hunter, him)

[restive bluff]

why is it suggested in guides that we put our dots up and then we use vendetta?

can't we just open with vendetta before applying dots?

[trim zinc]

to use more envenons on vendetta window i think

[icy crater]

because you want to press envenom as much as possible during vendetta and not maintain dots

[gusty mirage]

^

stop typing so fast guys I wanna contribute 😦

[trim zinc]

sorry ❤️

[restive bluff]

i see thx 🙂

[icy crater]

don't thank me, thank oxi

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[icy crater]

🙂

[gusty mirage]

it was the "^" that sold it

I knew it

[trim zinc]

losfhpsidouhsdopfh ya

^^

[restive bluff]

is it worth switching to venthyr from nf for patch 9.0.5?

[storm onyx]

You want to stack all your dmg abilities before firing Vendetta, so all is covered by it full duration

[gusty mirage]

the new flagellation + lashing scars seems strong

[storm onyx]

If you open vith vendetta, you would lose the solid coverege as you add up your dits and abilities

[gusty mirage]

but I think the general thought about covenants stays the same for us: Play what you want unless your m+ group requires a specific covenant

[trim zinc]

and lose the energy regen 2 prob

[icy crater]

or you pvp

[coral imp]

@tropic ocean it was all full premade but regardless if your io is high enough why wouldnt they take you. whats your io?

[gusty mirage]

true, but new flag hits pretty hard 🙂

[storm onyx]

That too

[gusty mirage]

after I already switched Y BLIZZ

[tropic ocean]

because the higher you go in rio, the stricter you get filtered in pugs

[icy crater]

I was going NF this week now I can't decide if I should go venth and say fk it lol

[frail fossil]

and the higher u go

the more u find ppl

u can befriend

and grp them up together

[tropic ocean]

but thats

not pugging

???

[coral imp]

ok idk what you

[frail fossil]

bro this is part of the process, everyone starts with pugging

[coral imp]

re trying to get at here

[frail fossil]

and then network ppl

[coral imp]

LOL

[frail fossil]

like no one just do high keys alone

[coral imp]

you think ppl are justpugging 24s?

[frail fossil]

sitting in grp finder

[tropic ocean]

currently not sure

[coral imp]

no

they arent

[tropic ocean]

but higher key pugging is not so uncommon

[coral imp]

lol

[frail fossil]

like u start by pugging 18/19s

u make friends

u add them

and u play with them

like

how it works

[gusty mirage]

I struggle with step 2

lol

[frail fossil]

pugging is part of the process to do high keys

u will have to pug

[coral imp]

just be above average but I can understand that people want certain classes the higher you go

[frail fossil]

but doesn't mean ull end up pugging 100% of ur keys

[coral imp]

but where are you struggling to get in

[tropic ocean]

because ppl want the best input they can possibly get

was like that since begin of m+

[frail fossil]

idk bro u dont need a meta comp

for 20s

[gusty mirage]

I've ripped plenty of 18s and 19s with bad mages because we wanted a "meta comp"

so

[coral imp]

^

[gusty mirage]

chasing meta isn't always the play

[tropic ocean]

so? the argument is not that you "need" a meta comp to time these keys

[frail fossil]

like unless you're doing the highest keys atm

[tropic ocean]

but its very unlikely to get into these keys on non meta

[frail fossil]

anyone reasonable will take a player over a spec

[coral imp]

why

[restive bluff]

i have not yet crafted a Sin specific lego and i'm wondering if i shall wait for the patch to come or just craft zoldyck?

[tropic ocean]

cant remember a season where it wasnt like that

[coral imp]

people want rogues anyways for the utility

[frail fossil]

idk bro i can name u some blood dks that are owning rn

[tropic ocean]

idk what you wanna name me

[trim zinc]

id do zold

[coral imp]

if you arent getting in idk that sucks

improve your io

[tropic ocean]

telling someone you can pug as sin rogue when theres 2 in the world that did 6 20s in total

1 of which is full premade

🤷

[coral imp]

yeah but how many people

[gusty mirage]

For sure, most people will want to go with the meta because on paper it makes your life easier and no one wants to deplete a key if they can help it

[coral imp]

are playing sin

barely anyone

[frail fossil]

telling people they cant while u haven't done a single 20 🤷‍♂️

[coral imp]

im rated highest in na with a 1550 io and this is my first expac

im sure if anyone

wanted to ake the class seriously

there would be more

[tropic ocean]

so what do you think are the rogues doing that are 2k on assassination?

[frail fossil]

u can own keys as sin

it just takes more effort

that's it

[tropic ocean]

man

idk what youre trying to tell theres no argument you cant play sin at these key levels

[frail fossil]

k

[tropic ocean]

I even told the guy asking "in fixed group sure"

"pug probably not"

[coral imp]

yes you can

[tropic ocean]

ok sure

go for it mate

[frail fossil]

as i told you, no one pugs forever

[coral imp]

im just saying theres barely anyone playing the class anyways

[frail fossil]

he'll start by pugging

he wont start by doing 20s

he'll find ppl

he'll network

[tropic ocean]

ok

[frail fossil]

and he'll do fucking 20s

[gusty mirage]

cuz we suck

[frail fossil]

that's how it works

if he's good

[trim zinc]

thats the most important pooint i think

[tropic ocean]

and then he wont pug them

cg

[frail fossil]

qkdwhgxtfkoùsfhxgùjer``
pôsjghoijdsr

i swear u just

[icy crater]

dude its not worth

[frail fossil]

[icy crater]

just let it go lol

[coral imp]

yeah

[icy crater]

its actually not worth

[coral imp]

idk what the point is

or where hes going with it

[tropic ocean]

the point is, its a bad advice to tell someone he can just pug 20s on sin

because its just in your mind but not reality

[frail fossil]

k

[coral imp]

you CAN

[tropic ocean]

despite 20s already being very rare in tool currently

[coral imp]

its not

[tropic ocean]

ok

theres 2 20s in tool eu atm

one looks for boomie

[trim zinc]

hes trying to say that it isnt his fault that he doesnt does 20s and its "oh my class sucks, im good but poeple dont invite me"
just go there and do it
u have to be a better player and put mopre effort to make sin work better but its 100% doable