No, I dont
#assassination
onyx wind
dark vigil
it also ranks against private logs
onyx wind
Yes
dark vigil
but you just can't see their parse specifically
limber lion
Also the korean rogue is not getting PI.
So many people say "omg they are only rank 1 because they get pi"
get a grip
stoic needle
Does he only get fed pi on heroic then?
covert stratus
is the nature damage from Phial and bottled toxin amplified by shiv?
gentle gyro
no one said that
limber lion
Literally the top players are not getting PI
dark vigil
i guarantee you there are dozens of sin rogues that have cleared mythic generals
no @covert stratus
limber lion
No, he doesn't get PI on heroic either.
onyx wind
So how are private logs gonna skew anything any less?
covert stratus
😦
limber lion
Not sure where you're getting that from
You can legit go look at his logs.
I'm gonna be honest, I did a run today and I did get PI and got 5 rank 1's
onyx wind
I checked top10 players on each boss and almost none of them get PI
limber lion
But I don't credit the PI for it.
dark vigil
yeah i inspected peen's rotations and yeah i couldnt find one where he got pi
limber lion
It's not like I'll do 1000 dps less without PI
stoic needle
I've looked at his logs and seen a lot of Pi
limber lion
It's not end all be all.
onyx wind
In sims
limber lion
Exactly
onyx wind
Look at progression kills
limber lion
EVEN less in real life.
dark vigil
lets see
onyx wind
Just watch a single progression kill
dark vigil
both of peen's council kills no pi
onyx wind
from top3 guild
limber lion
That is the optimal thing to happen
onyx wind
and compare people who get PI to people who dont
limber lion
In real life it's a lot smaller
stoic needle
I don't think that spreadsheet is accurate
onyx wind
My sample size is insanely small, but i usually get alteast 500 more dps with PI
as sub
dark vigil
onyx wind
like 5-10 pulls
ionic fox
sub is single handedly by far without a doubt the worst class for PI
you dont get 500 looool
stoic needle
Monk
dark vigil
monk actually aint bad with a ton of haste
for a burst
just is so bad to prioritize for stats
hence why the celestial leggo is bis for them
stoic needle
The comparison is inherently flawed, it's based on using PI only on one person throughout the whole fight when if you're really minmaxing it you'd put it on someone like unholy during army on the pull and then assassa in the execute
tardy sluice
haste + ? on sin legends?
dark vigil
crit
onyx wind
Unless its MA :3
spice spire
haste + ? on sin legends?
Not mastery. Either one of the other two works. Best to sim though
dark vigil
fights being weird is why affli is actually insane for sludge to pi on pillars
stoic needle
It really doesn't matter between haste crit and haste vers because the sim will just make you gear slightly differently to compensate for whatever stats you pick
dark vigil
when usually u pi something else
onyx wind
Either way, getting rank1 logs is gonna suck as assa
since ur actually competing with people who get pi
XD
dark vigil
rank 1 logs for sin dont even get pi'd
onyx wind
I mean a lot of things are gonna change if it becomes meta
dark vigil
yea
it wont be meta tho
in 9.0.5
9.1 would need big changes
to rogues in general
tribal marlin
especially with hunter's nerf
onyx wind
I mean out of the rogue specs
dark vigil
u wouldnt replace hunter with a rogue tho
onyx wind
If the min-maxers actually start playing the spec, a lot of stuff changes
Same with demo
tribal marlin
With WS being fixed hunter will no longer be the best PI target + their squishy and they are pretty much average in damage.
onyx wind
And i guarantee u will be competing with assa rogues who get PI
tribal marlin
Only thing that make theim do good this tier is WS and the fact that they almost get PI every single time
onyx wind
its everything
tribal marlin
with WS being nerfed (or 'fixed') I can bet you you'll no longer see hunter in RWF and maybe one for the immunity and because he's OTP in some world100 guild but that's all
doesn't mean you'll bring more Rogue tho
dark vigil
serpent legendary not proccing wild spirits
its like a 9% nerf to ws burst or something
onyx wind
Wait so every aimed shot just procced 2x WS?
dark vigil
yes
onyx wind
XD
tribal marlin
Wait so every aimed shot just procced 2x WS?
nah that was before the First fix
they fixed it once because of mastery shit
dark vigil
before it was mastery double dipping
covert stratus
is it ever worth delaying Sepsis for shiv window?
dark vigil
now it's being fixed of it proccing 2xws because of the serpent legendary
limber lion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7YRw8xTajkJ6hLKf#fight=28&type=damage-done&source=133&start=4900405&end=4904864
70k dps burst on Sludge first pillar with BL
I love it.
dark vigil
depends if you can get an extra cast of sepsis throughout the fight
covert stratus
it doesnt quite line up
dark vigil
by not dealying it
covert stratus
that's a big brain answer, Folk
spring cargo
hey guys new here, but i was just wondering is Doomblade going to be better going into next patch and if so does necro look better since it is an extra bleed or no?
limber lion
I would just delay Sepsis everytime unless you're big brain and wanna optimize it even further.
tribal marlin
is it ever worth delaying Sepsis for shiv window?
You want to use Sepsis either while Shiv is on the target, or if shiv is about to come off cooldown. Don't think too much of it
dark vigil
necro doesnt count for doomblade iirc
dark vigil
doomblade will be good on st for throughput throughout the fight
but weaker execute which is what actually will down hard bosses like denathrius
covert stratus
alright thanks again
onyx wind
Its good for parsing :)
tribal marlin
The best things to do tho is to sync your last Sepsis with your last Vendetta
So basically, if the fight is like 5mn, you don't delay Sepsis and rather delay Vendetta to 4:30 (insteed of 4:00)
spring cargo
so did blizz say why neco bleed doesnt count for doomblade? sounds kind of odd....
onyx wind
Most bleeds dont count for most things in assa
tribal marlin
But if the fight last like 3mn you delay that shiv at 2:00 with Vend insteed of 1:30
onyx wind
To balance the spec
I was really surprised to hear that internal bleeding works with venomous wounds now
oblique flare
it worked even in bfa
onyx wind
Didnt play assa in bfa
covert stratus
I miss suffocation 😦
stoic needle
so did blizz say why neco bleed doesnt count for doomblade? sounds kind of odd.....
Because they have this wack design direction where they don't want covenants to be bis for some specs over others
Yet they allow convoke to exist
icy crater
I wish there were clearly defined talents/legos/conduits etc for building either around dots or big envenoms
coral imp
would it match thematically 🤔
icy crater
And you could go either build
oblique flare
nO goOd DrUiD uSeS ConVOKe
stoic needle
I think it's nothing but good for the game to allow things like necrolord bleed build or night fae poison build to exist
spring cargo
so if bleeds dont count does that mean internal bleeding talent doesnt work either???
spring cargo
......
stoic needle
Internal bleeding does
spring cargo
this game sometimes
onyx wind
I think it's nothing but good for the game to allow things like necrolord bleed ...
Sure but that would make specs without those two covenants completely useless
coral imp
i think it does
dark vigil
but u not gonna be castsing kidney shot to keep up the bleed
stoic needle
Sure but that would make specs without those two covenants completely useless
That's not true if they balanced it right
spring cargo
no no i know that
onyx wind
wdym balance it
spring cargo
just a thought for pvp 😛
covert stratus
should I even used the ambush proc from sepsis? xd
dark vigil
no
stoic needle
Tuning?
onyx wind
You want them to tune covenants for each spec?
dark vigil
you don't use
stoic needle
No just the all of the covenants so that they're equal overall
onyx wind
Thats 4x covenants across 3x specs
dark vigil
only use ambush with blindside procs
fleet whale
You probably shouldn’t but honestly
covert stratus
BEGONE STANCE MACRO
stoic needle
That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with having a bleed build and a poison build
icy crater
If 2 classes are within a few % damage wise, one class cov does 20% of their damage the other does 3%, are they balanced?
onyx wind
I was so surprised why noone was actually using ambush
coral imp
less potential cp tho 😦
covert stratus
both hands crits is 4 cps?
dark vigil
yes
coral imp
yea
strange python
Be nice if internal bleeding would work on boss fights. Immune the stun and get the bleed.
spice spire
They already have a build for big envenoms
stoic needle
If sepsis counted as a poison, and if sbs counted as a bleed, and it synergized with doomblade and dashing, you'd just have to buff flag and ER to do enough damage that they're on par with sbs and sepsis. It's not rocket science
spice spire
Just replace envenom with eviscerate and go sub and replace big with not really useful 
covert stratus
man assa is turning out to be deeper than I thought 😮
dark vigil
sub
covert stratus
my outlaw brain cant handle it
shy dust
?
icy crater
They already have a build for big envenoms
specing night stalker and vanish envenoming isn't a big envenom build
shy dust
Sin is maintain bleeds
dark vigil
sin is pretty simple
coral imp
sin is drool
spice spire
specing night stalker and vanish envenoming isn't a big envenom build
See my next message
tribal marlin
Aye SBS fully work with mastery now
onyx wind
If sepsis counted as a poison, and if sbs counted as a bleed, and it synergized ...
Sure but balancing 12x is harder than balancing 4x
tribal marlin
Was only the initial direct damage, now the DoT is also increase by mastery
dark vigil
.7% dmg increase to a 5 dmg tick
stoic needle
Sure but balancing 12x is harder than balancing 4x
That's not really a good reason not to
coral imp
oh for real? @tribal marlin
stoic needle
Blizzard talks all day long about class fantasy
dark vigil
they could do it
coral imp
i want to switch to venthyr but pvp 😦
stoic needle
What is more class fantasy than a bleed build or a poison build
spice spire
Correct, they balanced it very well.
Emphasis on “balance”
tribal marlin
I hope Sepsis will work with mastery as well xD
dark vigil
onyx wind
stepsis
coral imp
and sepsis shock
spice spire
O no
coral imp
👀
spice spire
Raid general chat has entered the chat
dark vigil
id really like if they took away snd from us and give us the damage back in our bleeds/poisons instead
coral imp
i mean they kinda did in 9.0.5
dark vigil
theres really no use for use to have snd
it doesnt do anything for us
at 9.0.5
it just gives us melee damage
that sit
spice spire
I was going to say, 9.0.5 pretty much does
stoic needle
i mean they kinda did in 9.0.5
Nah our bleeds are still pretty undertuned
dark vigil
for sub , autos can give cp
spring cargo
wait wait... sepsis doesnt count as a poison??? so we cant buff it with mastery nor shiv?
spice spire
You press it once
dark vigil
outlaw it can give.. ?
spring cargo
or did i read that wrong?
spice spire
And forget it
oblique flare
we're primarily a dot and rot spec, yet they moved us over to AA
onyx wind
SnD only makes sense for outlaw
coral imp
i ment we barely have to think about snd
stoic needle
wait wait... sepsis doesnt count as a poison??? so we cant buff it with mastery ...
It's buffed by shiv but not mastery
dark vigil
it makes sense for sub with its passive to give CP
but for 9.0.5 with sin it makes no sense
onyx wind
Im a proud autoattacker :)
spice spire
Nature damage so it works with shiv but not mastery
shy dust
SnD only makes sense for outlaw
works fine for Sub
tribal marlin
stoic needle
It gives instant poison procs
dark vigil
remove it from us give it back to use in bleeds and poisons, makes mastery scale a bit better and will be way better for multi targets
oblique flare
it's not about us not having to think about snd with cttc coming, it's the fact that SnD gives them an excuse to not buff our bleeds and poison
dark vigil
it does give insant poison procs but meh
onyx wind
works fine for Sub
Thematically, not really
shy dust
Gameplay wise
its easy to maintain
it buffs your cp generation
and you only refresh it during downtime in the spec
stoic needle
If they removed snd entirely they could aura buff our dots more
That's what we want
icy crater
Yup
onyx wind
Sure, but you can argue the same thing about assa SnD then
stoic needle
I don't think it'll happen until 10.0
onyx wind
it procs more poisons etc
shy dust
no you cant
onyx wind
generally speaking theres no reason to have it in either spec
shy dust
SnD has no direct gameplay benefit for SnD
dark vigil
9.1 should be pretty exciting
spice spire
The argument against CttC is that with it in, what’s the point of having slice and dice? The reason we had it added back was for identity. But now you click it once and you’re Gucci
stoic needle
I mean it does give more poison procs
shy dust
it does that for
dark vigil
it does but like who cares
shy dust
every spec
stoic needle
Yeah but they do more for sin than for any other spec
dark vigil
that would be a fun build
stoic needle
Because they're 10% of our damage
dark vigil
stack mastery and haste
shy dust
every spec gets value from added auto damage/poison hits
shy dust
sin specifically got nothing from it
which is why it previously got 10% energy with it up
icy crater
Change assa mastery to execute damage, remove SnD and buff our dots to compensate 
dark vigil
that would be interesting
gentle gyro
i just want the talent back that gives me more energy for bleed damage on poisoned targets
shy dust
Do assassination players just want every single thing
onyx wind
Sounds fun
stoic needle
Omg scaling execute damage 
tribal marlin
shy dust
you already have an execute talent and a lego for it
spice spire
Sc*ling 
dark vigil
make my rupture do 50k dmg per second 
shy dust
stoic needle
That would be hilarious and actually broken
dark vigil
blindside shouldnt even count as an execute talent
stoic needle
Wait wait wait
dark vigil
wait what am i looking at
stoic needle
Exsang works on sbs now??
icy crater
That would be hilarious and actually broken
lol I mean yeah if you just aura'd us in execute but it would be a bit more nuanced than that
dark vigil
exsag works with sbs on ptr?
limber lion
If Peen doesn't reclear today, I will be rank 1 rogue on HC tomorrow and possible even rank 1 all star among all classes. Get fucked Peen 
spice spire
What the fuck
tribal marlin
I think it's ab ug
dark vigil
spice spire
Surely
stoic needle
DO NOT BUG REPORT
dark vigil
that would be so fun on raids
coral imp
yea man
icy crater
Does it even matter that it works?
dark vigil
yes because
stoic needle
Does it even matter that it works?
I would say yes
coral imp
we pickpocket blizzard
dark vigil
it would be stronger than alacrity
icy crater
I would say yes
30% of 0 is still 0
dark vigil
if you're using sbs
stoic needle
I would reroll necro for that probably
tribal marlin
yes ....
stoic needle
Don't do it miki
onyx wind
XD
stoic needle
I beg you 
tribal marlin
xD
onyx wind
Imagine if that was actually a thing tho
tribal marlin
if I don't report it they will just fix it when people figure out on live
stoic needle
At least let us use it for a week or two on live and let them fix it on their own
onyx wind
U would have 10k dps assa
spice spire
Miki should. Will save many rogues heartbreak when they swap just to have to swap back
Ye*
icy crater
loool
icy crater
🍿
stoic needle
It will be the best month of the tier
spice spire
Save these people from themselves
dark vigil
what if they say it's intended 
spice spire
Yeah but that doesn’t effect raid. Dear lord the second it messes with rtwf it’s done
tribal marlin
onyx wind
HAHAHAHA
spice spire
G I G A
dark vigil
dude that would be so funny on bosses with big downtime
stoic needle
Holy shit hahaha
dark vigil
you could get that up to an insane rate on denathrius
spice spire
That is super funny though, NGL.
dark vigil
wait..
icy crater
is this live or PTR
stoic needle
This is what sin should have been from the beginning
tribal marlin
it dot disapear after I Exsganged 4 time
it start ticking very fast and just remove
onyx wind
:(
stoic needle
INTENDED INTERACTION?!
dark vigil
thats still good though
icy crater
ahh so apl must be 3 exang and stop 😉
oblique flare
tbh, the counter argument of sbs not being a bleed working with exsang is the fact that sbs is "endless"
onyx wind
yes but dummies in particular
onyx wind
might have some special code
dark vigil
idk how you'd drop combat
onyx wind
to not have it last forever
oblique flare
so sbs and ex is just dumb
gleaming tinsel
It drops off if you move I think 80yd away
stoic needle
It disappears if you outrange
dark vigil
o
gleaming tinsel
So when Denathrius ports it drops off iirc
dark vigil
oblique flare
unless they change it and giving it a timer
dark vigil
it'd be cool if it lasted like 2 mins, doubled the proc time and it worked with exsang
some shit like that
it would be stronger but give it a niche
since you wouldn't be able to run alacrity
and you'd only be able to get 2 exsang on it
so it wouldnt be ultra broken
onyx wind
If it lasted 2 mins
First 45sec are normal, then u have to wait 45sec with 2x speed
Which is 2:15
to get 2nd exsang off
dark vigil
right
onyx wind
So not possible
onyx wind
:3
icy crater
so everyone agree to never speak of this again
dark vigil
what would be the craziest fight for it
stoic needle
Keep it secret, keep it safe
stoic needle
what would be the craziest fight for it
Council
stoic needle
Pray you get one of the up front dance positions
spring cargo
IF you use a new sbs before you have exs up again it does lose the buff btw...
tribal marlin
dark vigil
yeah you cant refresh
tribal marlin
tick rate after 4th exsg
icy crater
LOL
spring cargo
also mastery is buffing it btw
a warrior next to me used his banner thingy
and ya it buffed it...
dark vigil
vague narwhal
quick question is there a haste cap for assasination? iam at 25,18%
dark vigil
no
icy crater
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
dark vigil
seems balanced
icy crater
You're going to crash some shit I swear
dark vigil
yes
tribal marlin
dark vigil
theres no such thing as a haste cap
vestal wren
huh, what broke with bone spike?
vague narwhal
ah so more speed i see
gleaming tinsel
there a way to quickly switch covs on ptr?
vestal wren
lol
dark vigil
nope liter
dark vigil
itll get fixed
tribal marlin
@vestal wren work with Exsg
dark vigil
dont worry
tribal marlin
on ptr
vague narwhal
should i take a no haste dagger or a haste fist weapon for offhand? (HC Night Fae weapon token)
dark vigil
you cant use fist
stoic needle
https://i.imgur.com/ZRDb0Bh.gif
How much dps is that
gleaming tinsel
oh of course it'll get fixed i just wanted to go witness something super busted while it was a thing
vague narwhal
ah well i thank you xD i would have made a terrible mistake
spice spire
They finally gave rogues convoke
dark vigil
turn on details
dude imagine just going afk during hungering destroyer or something with 5x esang sbs
spice spire
That’s pretty big tho
spring cargo
ahhh also there is no target cap
spring cargo
i now have every dummy with the dot
tribal marlin
stoic needle
https://i.imgur.com/ZRDb0Bh.gif
@balmy condor it's your worst nightmare come true
spring cargo
rofl...ya we done for boys
fleet whale
i mean that's prolly gonna get nerfed/fixed
fleet whale
besides, i don't want to be smelly necro boys
icy crater
not if no one says anything 😈
stoic needle
Not if we don't say anything
stoic needle
fleet whale
would rather be a sophisticated vampire
limber lion
It will get fixed.
dark vigil
sbs makes the most sense with sins
stoic needle
No snitching
fleet whale
i mean all of them can work were assassins
limber lion
My guess is that they want to make Exsang work with SBS but so that it resets to it's normal tick rate after a while instead of going up infinitely.
...or
They jsut fucked something up
Which is more likely
fleet whale
assassins generally use whatever tools needed to kill
dark vigil
i wonder if it just stacked ocne with exsang if it would be worth using the talent with sbs
over alacrity
that reminds me i want hot wings
warped plank
would rather be a sophisticated vampire
When will you be changing over?
spice spire
Venthyr
stoic needle
I'm gonna wait until the patch release date is announced
tribal marlin
It seems like it's cap
stoic needle
Venthyr <:peepochrist:585733962274570253>
dark vigil
yeah
theres gonn abe more ptr changes for sure
i expect some today
yesterday's were pretty lacklsuter
tribal marlin
capped at 30k / sec
spice spire
<a:venthyr:761033570277916682>
Delete this rn
stoic needle
Delete this rn
spice spire
stoic needle
OUR TIME HAS COME
oblique flare
even though I mainly use MA in both keys and pvp, i was curious about Bloodfang, got to say, not even the buff will make it any better
stoic needle
VAMP BOYS RISE UP
dark vigil
:necrolords:
spice spire
Thrill seeker still exists Smdh
tribal marlin
seems like it can't tick more than every 0.01sec xD
dark vigil
yeah bloodfang is pretty dogshit @oblique flare it was alread ysimmed with changes
stoic needle
Thrill seeker still exists Smdh
We theotar now
spice spire
Ye
dark vigil
theotar when most of the fights are movement instense
stoic needle
It'll still end up being better than nadjia in practice most likely depending on the fight
dark vigil
nop
oblique flare
yeah bloodfang is pretty dogshit <@!258980597941272577> it was alread ysimmed wi...
damn, I expected to be kinda bad, but not like this xd
stoic needle
I mean, yes. If the fight timing doesn't line up for nadjia it's trash and you can't rly control that
tribal marlin
I litterally broke the game
spice spire
Bloodfang deadass did more than Doomblade in my key last night
tribal marlin
the server only register 1/10 of the ticks
frozen jasper
I wanna be a vampir but i dont wanna lose niya and korayn soulbinds, its such a struggle
spice spire
I litterally broke the game
spring cargo
so if i have zoldyck maxed, crafting doomblade is ok you guys think?
iron orchid
I just stopped reading for like 1 hour, what are you FUCKING DOING @tribal marlin
stoic needle
so if i have zoldyck maxed, crafting doomblade is ok you guys think?
Yep
iron orchid
put that SBS down right now
dark vigil
i'd craft doomblade and duskwalker if you got soul ash out your ass
tribal marlin
xD
icy crater
press vendetta
spice spire
Miki tryna put Zoldyck back on the menu
icy crater
I wanna see the DAMAGE
spice spire
30% of 30k 
icy crater
if it doesn't show on details it doesn't count
oblique flare
did anyone test how much time the new dusk shaves off?
dark vigil
should be up every pillar
stoic needle
It makes it about 1min
stoic needle
Imagine if vend was an aoe cd
dark vigil
also probably really good for mythic SLG
stoic needle
That would be so nice for m+
dark vigil
eh.
oblique flare
hm nice, a minute is solid
icy crater
F
oblique flare
won't alacrity catch up when it comes to average energy regen
stoic needle
Well sbs doesn't give energy so you'd be behind regardless
tribal marlin
if exsang worked with it once would it be worth using over alacrity?
obviously it double the damage every time you press
stoic needle
Probably not tbh
oblique flare
Well sbs doesn't give energy so you'd be behind regardless
oh yeah, so well, then not even sure if the sped up damage can make up for it then
tribal marlin
after 5th exsangue it multiple SBS damage by 32
tribal marlin
after 10th exsang it multiple it by 1000
drifting light
dark vigil
that just tilted me off the planet
dark vigil
pvp 
oblique flare
sole reason to play wow, whatchu mean
stoic needle
I'm sorry damian
Pvp balance is too dogshit to take this game seriously as a pvp game
dark vigil
i think a big issue with pvp is the trinket bonus for versa isnt applying to damage reduction
from what i heard
only applying to damage dealt
the 40% bonus or whatever
stoic needle
No the big issue for pvp is that blizzard has no fucking clue what they're doing for balancing the classes
stoic needle
They nerf rogues but let ret paladins run around unnerfed for months
dark vigil
the 9.0.5 change to kyrian pal will make them managable
it delays the hits from divine toll
oblique flare
I'm sorry damian
i know, i was looking forward to grinding, but the balance and the fact that - even if you find people to play with stop showing up/quit the game, so you end up having to lfg again through trial and error, is really off putting
dark vigil
if you proc it
oblique flare
i think a big issue with pvp is the trinket bonus for versa isnt applying to dam...
yeah, it only applies to healing received and damage done
dark vigil
wonder how the meta would change once that's fixed
it would obviously be way less one shotty
but i wonder how it would change the meta cause of that
isnt sin better than sub if neither can one shot
subtle imp
warriors become even more broken
oblique flare
doubt a lot, unless they tune healing
sin becomes better, but warriors, rets, wws will still be on top of the chain
maybe fire will swap to frost
subtle imp
no
oblique flare
main issue is simply burst damage and healing existing
subtle imp
i main frost mage
dark vigil
fire is too good
oblique flare
oh right, db is fire specific
dark vigil
db needs like a 1 min cd
subtle imp
its actually awful
oblique flare
assa has burst, it's just tied to MA and vanish so that's the meme
dark vigil
well if it stops being an impactful burst meta
dawn root
I honestly like how fast pvp games are compared to before, but I hate how bursty certain classes/skills are like ret and convoke. Like you shouldn't die in a global in arena because you pressed trinket 1 sec late
dawn root
Yes
dark vigil
i dont play pvp so dont take anything i say as an informed opinion
just from what ive seen
i watched some awc
oblique flare
wish ma wouldn't exist, then we might get overall good buffs and could play more interesting legendaries
dark vigil
well
9.0.5 will make ma not work with trinkets which affects pvp
so might give it room
for buffs
dark vigil
doomblade
stoic needle
That's wild I didn't realize that the trinket bonus is bugged
stoic needle
or am i memeing
You are memeing
dawn root
If you see a ret that has wings and you just got Hoj'ed. If you don't trinket it or have a peel you're basically dead and often dead within a global or two. That's just wrong.
oblique flare
hardly anyone uses ma with a trinket, except outside of skull in 2s, which people started to shift away from because at 30% vers, double trinket is just better average damage that won't fail
stoic needle
Nothing will ever make ttb not be shit except a full rework
dark vigil
it'd be good if it was 1000% dmg
stoic needle
I think even then it'd still probably be shit
dark vigil
no
oblique flare
toxic blade is such a bad legendary overall, compared to others
oblique flare
see you at the end of SL where they might buff it to 700
dark vigil
if it were 750% it might have some weird usage scenario
but i dont see where that would be
oblique flare
another issue is, what if they buff it to 1000 but intend to have you use 2 legendaries
can imagine it to be another oneshot
dark vigil
ma + ttb
stoic needle
ER 2.0
dark vigil
nightstalker ma + ttb
oblique flare
see, ma is a curse
gusty mirage
It’s kinda horseshit that other classes can walk around with a pretty consistent one shot lotto, while we get no love from the devs and our once “OP” stuff got nerfed into the ground
dawn root
What if they made MA 50% crit bonus but for say 6 seconds? Seems reasonable? Could avoid all the potential cheese builds.
stoic needle
real question is when did sub and sin's identity flip
Wdym?
gusty mirage
Not to mention our mediocre damage and absolutely sad excuse for raid utility
dark vigil
sub used to be less about burst
gusty mirage
It’s because they didn’t know wtf to do with sub tbh
So they relegated assa to a rot spec
stoic needle
Sin has always been a dot spec tho
stoic needle
The real problem is that we don't have a rogue developer
dawn root
I love how they gave sub rupture that is a dps gain to use yet provides 0 interaction to the spec. That annoys me
stoic needle
It a bunch of devs who don't play rogue trying to fix rogue and failing
gusty mirage
I’m absolutely positive if someone at blizzard had a rogue above level 20 we’d get some love lol
stoic needle
Yup
sterile jackal
!bis
stoic needle
I feel like in the interest of my long term enjoyment of the game I should roll a monk
gusty mirage
Every rogue I know has rerolled for the most part 
dark vigil
like its still there but significantly worse
stoic needle
But nothing is the same as sin
gusty mirage
I rerolled a monk for pvp and I’ve had so much fun it’s ridiculous
tribal marlin
I need to do more testes
but it looks like SBS also increase Envenom damage with Doomblade now
dark vigil
that would be good
that could be intended
and if it is
that's pretty good with cttc
in a perfect world what i'd really like is doomblade to be the best st legendary if execute isnt relevant on the fight
i.e hungering destroyer
and then zoldyck is worse overall for dmg but the dmg profile is more important for execute
limber lion
but it looks like SBS also increase Envenom damage with Doomblade now
wtf, it's not stacking with garrote is it? I'm dumb
dark vigil
having niche legendaries is what it should be all about
stoic needle
in a perfect world what i'd really like is doomblade to be the best st legendary...
This is pretty much what we will have in 9.5 if nothing changes
dawn root
What is SBS?
stoic needle
Ehh not really
dark vigil
serrated bone spike
tribal marlin
nah it doesn't
solar flicker
when is execute not relevant for prog tho
dark vigil
hungering destroyer
stoic needle
3% is enough that you run doomblade wherever you can
solar flicker
do those bosses die at 30% or smth
stoic needle
No, they just don't get any extra mechanics at 30%
But sire and council and others do
Inerva
limber lion
For Sire it's really important because it's a DPS check at that point pretty much
limber lion
With most guilds progressing Sire at 225 ilvl, shouldn't be an issue
stoic needle
I hope they give us a boss that starts at 50% or less in 9.1
limber lion
The damage check at the end could be an issue with people dying left and right.
stoic needle
So we can really pump
dark vigil
if last phase of generals actually mattered
sin would be goated there
but it doesnt
limber lion
Yeap
dark vigil
2 target cleave for the energy gain and both in execute
stoic needle
If they make more council style bosses that don't reset hp sin will be good for those
dark vigil
its a wet dream
stoic needle
We're already top 5 boss dps there
dark vigil
sin is pretty sick at council
check dmg to bosses on mythic council
sin is really high
limber lion
I hate council
stoic needle
It's just the boomkins padding on adds make us look bad
spice spire
They already gave us our execute phase on papi kael’thas
tame lake
I have a sin with vers haste pvp gear and doom blade is that usable in m+?
stoic needle
Fuck sun king
stoic needle
I have a sin with vers haste pvp gear and doom blade is that usable in m+?
You really want ma or zoldyck for m+
spice spire
Doom blade is not usable in m+
stoic needle
It's useable but it's kinda inting
tame lake
Because you just spam mark?
stoic needle
Well you don't fok until 4 targets so it gets used more than you think
dark vigil
Yeah doomblafe is trolling for keys
stoic needle
But even at it's best it's worse than zoldyck, and sin as a whole is worse than outlaw so it's kinda inting
dark vigil
I'd rather not use a legendary and say it's a new character instead of using doomblade in keys
tame lake
But useable in raid yeah?
stoic needle
Yeah it's decent in raid
dark vigil
Its great on raids
tame lake
I felt like if I was going to craft ma I may as well just play sub
Maybe I’ll try outlaw in keys then. I’ve only pvp’d but I want to go back to main rogue on all content
spice spire
Yeah outlaw is king in pve atm
tame lake
May try it but I don’t play enough to gear multiple specs
stoic needle
I felt like if I was going to craft ma I may as well just play sub
Sub is worse than sin right now thoughb
Outlaw and sin use similar gear
spice spire
^
stoic needle
Craft zoldyck 
dark vigil
my new blizz account tho
gotta wait til next week dont have tc unlocked and am time gated
stoic needle
stoic needle
What happened to your other account
tame lake
Outlaw and sin use similar gear
Do they have the same stat prio?
spice spire
It’s close. For us (in broad strokes) it’s haste > Crit = Vers > mastery.
For outlaw it’s vers > haste > crit > mastery.
It’s similar enough. But on this expansion, stat prios will change if you index to heavily into a specific stat
spice spire
So while haste is generally best, for a while crit was my best stat to find because I had SO much haste.
dark vigil
and u know how ftbubbler got banned for being in an RBG with people who were boosting for irl $$
tame lake
I’ve just been fearing through pvp so I have all vers gear
I’d just need trinkets, main hand and new legendary
dark vigil
i dont even play pvp man
spice spire
Vers is pretty good for all specs too. So it’s a good time to transition to pve while being a PvP main
tame lake
Wasted my time gearing a monk at the start of the expansion haven’t played since wrath and it was new so I tried it but just doesn’t satisfy me like rogue
trim zinc
so maybe we wll not use zold for every fight anymore??
fleet whale
yeah, that's the main example i was thinking of
shy dust
Given it’s an overall dps check
dark vigil
only fights you'd really not using zold on is hungering shriek maybe sludge depending on the math of dusk, doom and zold differences
long haven
all of u assa rogues are nf right?
dark vigil
most are
subtle imp
necro baby
fleet whale
honestly you can chose whaterver one you think is the coolest
trim zinc
only fights you'd really not using zold on is hungering shriek maybe sludge depe...
like how much more dmg id do using doomblade instead of zold?
fleet whale
when the patch hits
long haven
i saw the venthyr stuff now i dont know what to do lmao currently swapping back to nf from kyrian
subtle imp
sin covenant stuff is pretty meh
trim zinc
like how much more dmg id do using doomblade instead of zold?
or even DS
subtle imp
er rogue
dark vigil
like 100 dps-150 ?
subtle imp
tame lake
I don’t like the aesthetics of the cov besides night tbh
dark vigil
wonder if necro + doomblade would be worth using over night fae
if it stays in that necro will work with doomblade
dark vigil
no
tribal marlin
if it stays in that necro will work with doomblade
No I tested more it does not
Was just a mistake
tribal marlin
sorry 😦
dark vigil
doomblade would still be good
without necro
thing
if execute isnt important doomblade is better
tribal marlin
It seems like Doomblade own dot does not increase envenom neither
tame lake
I thought it did
dark vigil
seems like an oversight
trim zinc
if execute isnt important doomblade is better
but like execute phase isnt like almost always important??
dark vigil
for some its not
tame lake
You can get +20% envenom max yeah?
tribal marlin
I'm trying to figure out now
tame lake
Lol well my experience is mainly arena so mark kidney double envenom with shiv does fat dmg
dawn root
Does sepsis dot not count with doomblade either?
tribal marlin
yeah ok Doomblade dot works
stoic needle
why would it? Sepsis is neither a poison nor a bleed
tame lake
No doom is only bleed sepsis is poison
trim zinc
yeah ok Doomblade dot works
so u can get 15% on bosses
garrote, rupt, doom
dark vigil
20% with ct
tame lake
What is ct
stoic needle
Not much of a loss
dawn root
Yeah you're not gonna drop PB for that
stoic needle
Pb is trash
tribal mauve
!bis
stoic needle
@balmy condor wanna sim CT on single target with doomblade for us? 
trim zinc
20% with ct
yaya but having to ct to gain more5% instead using another envenon isnt bad??
stoic needle
It's worth simming
dark vigil
well its a 12 sec bleed
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> wanna sim CT on single target with doomblade for us? <:pee...
Yeah in a bit
balmy condor
Yes
dark vigil
trim zinc
Yeah in a bit
stoic needle
I know it's a bug but I want it to be real so bad
trim zinc
i dont cuz ill have to farm renown again NOOOOO PLS
stoic needle
Imagine not having necro and venthyr at 20+ renown already
trim zinc
Imagine not having necro and venthyr at 20+ renown already <a:venthyr:7610335702...
did u already change??
dawn root
Imagine swapping covenants and having to spend hours questing and catching up on renowned for a tiny dps gain
stoic needle
Venthyr is my fav tho
stoic needle
Imagine swapping covenants and having to spend hours questing and catching up on...
Or just don't do any of that and play the game
balmy condor
Imagine swapping covenants and having to spend hours questing and catching up on...
So, an mmo?
trim zinc
lol
stoic needle
You don't have to do anything special to catch up renown, people just like to complain
trim zinc
I started necro, went venthyr, now nf
do u keep any of the renown u had??
stoic needle
Yes
trim zinc
OH
balmy condor
People who play MMO’s and then complain about grinding are a different breed
dark vigil
depends on the grinding but yea
dim mirage
it's certainly correlated but i dont think it's defining
balmy condor
You don’t think that grinding is a defining part of the mmorpg genre?
So you don’t think grinding for exp, or gear, or transmog, or mounts, or consumables, is a staple of mmo’s
Is that’s what you’re saying
stoic needle
Grinding is fundamental to rpgs and mmorpgs wydm
dark vigil
i think the difference is the emphasis on grinding in some mmos
stoic needle
If you think wow is bad you wouldn't last 10 minutes in everquest
dark vigil
for example, eastern mmos emphasis on grinding is heavily weighted
compared to most western ones
balmy condor
Wow’s “grind” is RIDICULOUSLY low
dark vigil
but that's more or less a cultural thing
balmy condor
Like the time you have to spend actually grinding
stoic needle
It's barely a grind
coral imp
pre bigbang maplestory
balmy condor
Is so astronomically low
dark vigil
maplestory now is pretty grindy
balmy condor
It’s actually crazy
dark vigil
i kinda wanna play it
coral imp
is it
dark vigil
yeah
balmy condor
Maplestory is sick
coral imp
i quit few years ago
dark vigil
theyve done a lot to the game
stoic needle
And they add catch-up mechanics every few months so that you don't have to actually grind
dark vigil
did they ever fix kannas being mandatory
coral imp
idk i quit around then
balmy condor
I don’t play reboot so it’s whatever to me
coral imp
was top 10 in reboot then they nerfed pally hammer
dark vigil
i thought they changed it
coral imp
then i dipped
dark vigil
so that you basically get kanna ability
coral imp
😦
dark vigil
on reboot
coral imp
SORRY
balmy condor
Point is
dark vigil
maplestory end bosses is pretty hard
balmy condor
You’re actually fucking crazy if you think grinding isn’t a big part of MMO’s
That shit wild
coral imp
i think club penguin didnt have much of a grind
limber lion
@balmy condor What do you think of my cheese opener with double on use trinkets, EP NS MFD and MA? :--)
Seems to work pretty well, rank 2 is 750~ dps lower
balmy condor
limber lion
Also, Peen will not be rank 1 rogue anymore tomorrow. Get fucked Peen.
But that opener is actually so much fun, give it a shot. It's a 40k dps burst Master Assa window with triple envenom + dreadfire
tribal marlin
Is it accounted in Doomblade implementation that it works as Fire Mage mastery ?