Not as a legendary just baseline pls
#assassination
stoic needle
calm grail
Make it as good as it was in BFA pre-nerf.
balmy condor
but that's handled by subterfuge mostly
you get 3-4 garrotes from stealth and CT and you're chilling
that's your damage
stoic needle
Subterfuge is nice but it doesn't compete with combust
calm grail
Subterfuge and iron wire and Shrouded suffocation made assassination feel great on pulls.
balmy condor
well yeah, and it never will
subtle tundra
and they shouldnt
balmy condor
that's not how that works
stoic needle
If you can consistently fok and get 5cp you can spam CT and do more damage
Or put up more ruptures
stoic needle
That's why I said the viability of the spec in m+ scales with crit
balmy condor
scaling inherently implies that you're going to be stronger in comparison, as you gain stats, than other specs
having more stats and doing more damage is just a byproduct of having gear
balmy condor
but that doesn't mean we're gonna beat an MM hunter suddenly right?
you wouldn't take a sin rogue over a windwalker just because the sin rogue has crit now
calm grail
God, what was the set bonus from Antorus? It made AOE feel pretty good.
FoK felt good then.
dreamy kayak
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
spice spire
How big of a nerf are you expecting? Removal from the game?
stoic needle
They won't be taken in keys pretty much
lyric flax
!bis
calm grail
Is there confirmation of a Wild SPirits nerf? Or is this wishful thinking?
stoic needle
They don't have anything spectacular utility wise and now they will do less damage than fire mage and boomkin
obtuse anvil
it's a bug fix
stoic needle
They are bug fixing the double proccing bug
The serpent sting legendary procced a wild spirits attack from the extra sting and from the aimed shot that triggers it
That will no longer be the case
calm grail
I thought I read somewhere it's not that huge.
stoic needle
Probably hunters in denial
calm grail
Like your 8k overall MM hunter might be like 7.8k
stoic needle
They do dogshit single target damage
Like lower than outlaw
And this halves their burst damage with wild spirits
So
calm grail
I don't think Wild Spirits works how you think it does.
It won't "Half their damage" with it.
stoic needle
I mean yes it kinda does
They're getting half as many procs of wild spirits during the effect
coral imp
for keys is it even worth going for the 23% haste for extra tick or should I just prio crit
balmy condor
we can sim the hunter thing
balmy condor
for keys is it even worth going for the 23% haste for extra tick or should I jus...
?????????
the what
coral imp
IDK
I SAW
someone say
at 23% haste
you get an extra tick on your dots or something
balmy condor
if you look at one bleed in a vacuum, yeah
balmy condor
from envenom not pandemicing right?'
yes
stoic needle
The nerf puts NF hunter below kyrian hunter in aoe
stoic needle
And no one takes kyrian hunters in keys
coral imp
finish your thought @balmy condor ๐ก
balmy condor
that was the thought
if you look at a single bleed
and that's it
in a vacuum
with nothing else
then you have breakpoints that exist where you get an extra tick
but then you factor in pandemic and multiple bleeds and refreshing and haste buffs and all that shit
and that's completely thrown out of the window
coral imp
oh yea ur right
stoic needle
Alacrity will get you to 23% pretty quick
coral imp
balmy condor
yeh that too
coral imp
ok cool ty guys
balmy condor
The nerf puts NF hunter below kyrian hunter in aoe
I just ran a 5 target sim on a random hunter from WCL
cause idk how dungeonslice works for those guys
lost about 5% from the fix
on 1:30
glass breach
with the new lego changes coming in 9.0.5 is the bleed build gonna be viable or naw
balmy condor
sad days to be a hunter tbh
stoic needle
balmy condor
with the new lego changes coming in 9.0.5 is the bleed build gonna be viable or ...
doom is viable, but it doesn't change exsang and shit
sleek sparrow
ST falling off, aoe getting nerfed 
glass breach
it was looking like assassin was making a comback sigh
stoic needle
If ptr goes live with no more changes we will be second highest simming ST dps behind feral
Which is a lot bigger than it sounds because sin is very easy to reach sim numbers with
icy crater
good thing CN is loaded with ST
stoic needle
It's like half and half
And we have execute for the other half
If we had a raid buff too we'd be actually giga
glass breach
is Zoldyck still going to be overall best lego
icy crater
is that sim with zold?
balmy condor
what sim
icy crater
that oshosi is talking about
stoic needle
It's with doomblade e
spice spire
calm grail
So 5% less Whispyr? So would you say their damage is not in fact, halved for AOE?
balmy condor
halved? 
not from a fix on one ability
hold on let me take the covenant out entirely
calm grail
balmy condor
removing the covenant, conduit, and soulbind entirely is ~25%
calm grail
Hmm.
balmy condor
well burst and 1:30min is a little different
glass breach
is the venth rework/changes going to be best or viable even
balmy condor
is the venth rework/changes going to be best or viable even
p i n s
calm grail
Well, if you're counting Niya and ST in a nutshell.
glass breach
thanks
balmy condor
we can do like 20 second sims, but those will be giga volatile
calm grail
I guess in my mind overall dmg > burst windows for m+
Even if your burst goes from 30k to 20k
or 15 (in that example)
stoic needle
Well that's just false
balmy condor
removing the covenant entirely seems to cut it in half on 20 seconds
stoic needle
M+ is all about burst windows right now
stoic needle
M+ is about nuking down huge pulls with pride
Which needs big burst
Overall isn't unimportant but it's absolutely secondary to burst
calm grail
I guess my point Oshosi, is I play Outlaw w/ decent gear, and even using Korayn/KS I get lucky if I maintain 15k+ for more than a little bit. My MM buddy routinely hits 30k.
So even nerfed half (which idk if that's even true or just a random guess), they're still doing great.
balmy condor
I'd say it's a bit of a hyperbole on the half thing
calm grail
For sure.
stoic needle
Sure I'll admit that
calm grail
My point is even if the hyperbole was accurate, MM still fine.
stoic needle
But the nerf will put them below mage and boomkin, which means most groups will want double mage double boomie than a MM
strange python
well yea ur not gonna compete for damage with MM hunter literally smorc unga bunga me hunter me wild spirits big dammy dammy 
lets not have unrealistic expectations here
balmy condor
^ is that necessary
strange python
no 
calm grail
Imagine if Rogue had Wild Spirits, specifically Outlaw. Absolutely busted. People see my sepsis damage and ask me what my covenant even does ๐ฆ I have to explain it allows other rogue abilities/damage to be better.
lol.
strange python
its just me being salty about hunter in my guild flexing their m+ damage all the time ๐
spice spire
โMy covenant ability is actually burrsโ
stoic needle
Wtb convoke the poisons
calm grail
You just stab like a zergling and latch onto your target, it's like killing spree for dagger users.
icy crater
Do you know how useless it is to take a covenant ability from 1 class and slap it on another one and say how broken it would be
icy crater
It doesn't even make sense that way
strange python
it is at least important to keep in mind that if MM hunter didn't have that ability the spec would be mediocre at best
icy crater
If it was pure omegalul sarcasm I guess that's different
calm grail
Actually, I'm thinking about it, we both use Korayn in m+ , me and my MM buddy. If I did have Wild Spirits, that would absolutely do more damage than Sepsis.
Because the passives are the same.
loud light
convoke the poisons would be so cool when it just gives you like 30 combo points, 25 of which are overcapped
strange python
yea I kinda wish sepsis either had an execute or spread to nearby targets upon expiring
o well
calm grail
If it did some balanced version of what it does from Torghast that would be cool.
Obviously tuned.
Either the CDR/spread or the Splash.
spice spire
Free vendetta CD if it expires 
strange python
what if
when it killed a target
instead of just reducing the CD on itself it reduced the CD on all of your abilities
actually idk how much that'd help
balmy condor
what if
all the people
lived their life in peace
you may say I'm a dreamer
but I'm not the only one
strange python
spice spire
Griff likes catcher in the rye a bit too much it seems
tribal marlin
you can do 30sec sim it's probably more accurate but remove lust
hollow hawk
so this is what the sin channel is like when not on fire after patch notes are released
stoic needle
balmy condor
it got removed
celest ruin
jokes on you i searched my browser history and found the link
hollow hawk
people acting like the bis list was the only way wasn't pog so it became death
balmy condor
my goal is to give the best information I can to try and help the most people
the bis list wasn't doing that
so we remove
strange python
Yeah I can see why bis lists are a bad idea 
better to just 
strange python
pretty sure the outlaw rogue bis list on icy veins had flayedwing toxin on it
and im just like 
hollow hawk
Ill just have a scottish man on the internet tell me what is best thats certainly better than any sim right :)
spice spire
I get why it existed. I still had the 8.3 mindset of 
haste only but you need pretty even stats to absolutely go bis
It was at least a learning tool coming into the expansion
loud silo
consider the bis list a gear set. its only bis if you have all those pieces but thats just not realistic
balmy condor
it was meant to show the potential, and give some insight to stats and shit
it was meant to show the potential, and give some insight to stats and shit
not be used as a "take this item from your vault, farm this dungeon for this wrist or that trinket"
spice spire
Correct. And thatโs exactly how I viewed it. But it stopped a REALLY stupid path Iโd go down had it not been for that
balmy condor
and at first, the regulars who were using it as such, and it was fine
but then sin got buffed, and more lets call them randoms, showed up
and it shifted into that "this item good this item bad"
so that's why I removed it
spice spire
So the work wasnโt useless, it was a very useful tool but yeah. I see that for sure 
balmy condor
I believe it can be useful
but it has to be used properly
and when the majority starts not doing that
and it starts hurting
it's not worth it anymore
waking up every tuesday/wednesday morning to "I got this out of my vault and it sims higher but bis list doesn't say it's good"
isn't really pog
celest ruin
it was a good reference, i was using it to compare sims and see which stat i need to have more of
loud light
just replace bis list with a thing that spits out "phial of putrefaction"
balmy condor
it was a good reference, i was using it to compare sims and see which stat i nee...
I hate to inform you, that comparing stats like that is the reason why it's gone :P
balmy condor
sin over outlaw on sire right now
frosty bridge
sick
strange python
outlaw feels like poo to play on sire
loud silo
how on earth does it feel bad
calm grail
Outlaw feels fine in pretty much all content. I guess on Hungering the downtime feels bad, but that's a melee thing.
celest ruin
i mean, the bis list was simming 6.6k and i cant even break 6.1k and im 223
dark vigil
!bis !rotation !whispyr should i reroll
loud silo
I feel like you're too obsessed with that bis list
calm grail
BiS list is whatever Top Gear tells me to use.
strange python
In my group I have to grapple to the platforms to help kill adds since we aren't running enough ranged, so unless I take retractable hook I get stuck over there not dpsing for a couple seconds once its dead 
loud silo
I mean I was doing the same thing for my guild and it was fine
but I was also venth so i could just tp over
strange python
some weeks we have a preist and they just yoink me back
hollow hawk
can we night fae blink that gap
calm grail
Uhhh
hollow hawk
havent tried
loud silo
nope
calm grail
Yes, yes you can.
calm grail
Please record trying it.
dark vigil
tell me u dont got it bound
safe pendant
Just play sub and shadowstep ๐
calm grail
People play Sub still?
strange python
retractable hook is fine ig but I feel like acrobatic strikes is just really helpful cause you can step back to avoid massacre and still be able to hit
calm grail
Outside of PVP*
dark vigil
dull cloak
has anyone seen the log statistics on assassination boss damage
dark vigil
its high
loud silo
why would i play a spec that performs worse just to have an extra shadow step
dark vigil
very high
balmy condor
i mean, the bis list was simming 6.6k and i cant even break 6.1k and im 223
bis list is 229
dull cloak
sin is lowkey pumping
hollow hawk
WOW all that gear for only $2.99 thats a steal
dark vigil
me love
strange python
i just tried out sin on a training dummy (rotation and how it feels) and even though i have 22% haste it still feels so slow the energy regen. what do i do to fix that
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b9x8vk99s4xC88Sw51Hz6r
this is the setup i went with
wide bolt
just to be safe cause i forgot this once
you changed specs and reapplied poisons right?
strange python
wait lol i simmed for dung slice im a dumbass
strange python
you changed specs and reapplied poisons right?
yeah yeah ofc (if u asked me)
wide bolt
yea just being sure cause i forgot when i went to try sin lol
echo cargo
Question- if you're using the DoS trinket and by default it gives you a stat that isn't your highest weighted, is it worth waiting til' you have 5 stacks of alacrity to pop it to ensure it procs as Haste (assuming Haste is your strongest stat)?
strange python
i legit have no idea how much haste would i need to get a good feel again ๐
u can trick quantum device to always give u haste ?
dark vigil
id say about 20% haste and so you can start to feel it
strange python
i have 22 and i still can't keep 100% uptime on elaborate planning
dull cloak
Question- if you're using the DoS trinket and by default it gives you a stat tha...
it always chooses a random stat from your highest 2 secondary so its random
balmy condor
Question- if you're using the DoS trinket and by default it gives you a stat tha...
alacrity doesn't actually impact the choice
it chooses based off of rating
strange python
whats ur crit
i think 21% , around 20-25%
dark vigil
around 30% crit 22% ish haste should feel good
since crit impacts your cp generation
haste for obvious reasons
strange python
around 30% crit 22% ish haste should feel good
so this should mean i should put crit and haste on my Zoldyck when i make it ? ๐
tired falcon
why is there almost 0 kryians in top 100 sins?
dark vigil
yues
hast eand crit
are like ur big big prio stats
crit for dmg and cp generation
haste for DoT dmg, energy gen and gcd
lyric dirge
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
dark vigil
vers and mastery are straightforward
lyric dirge
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
balmy condor
just get more
but It doesn't feel good because I have so much, not because I don't have enough
dark vigil
get less
strange python
why is there almost 0 kryians in top 100 sins?
pls dont mention that.. pls.. ๐ฆ General Draven will go full 'you couldn't live with your failure, and where did that bring you? back to me' on me
dark vigil
kyrian on sin just feels meh
but it aint bad
dud wtf i thought i'd be able to finish the entire bolvar questline
i rescued jaina
strange python
but it aint bad
confirming
strange python
that's an old thing i think
dark vigil
night fae is stronger than kyrian prob should get fixed
lyric cave
dark vigil
damn i still have to wait a weeek
balmy condor
it literally says kryian>nfae
it is kyrian > fae depending on some profiles, but you're right that it's a little outdated
tired falcon
ic
limber lion
to pool or not to pool, that is the question
strange python
any venthyr gamers
lean fossil
so i noticed on the ptr notes they didnt take away snd rank 2, so are we still losing it or did they change their minds again? lol
hollow hawk
balmy condor
it's gone
lean fossil
ahhh yeah im on wow heads ptr post
balmy condor
I also have a pin on the 9.0.5 changes
lean fossil
i knew it was gone before hand just didnt know if they changed their mind again
icy crater
Cttc is going to be really nice I think for pvp
balmy condor
yeah that's the new change
you're probably looking at the changes in the waves that they came out
the rank 2 got removed, and the VW buffs came in like 2 days later
lean fossil
ahhh yeah it was posted just a few mins ago
thats why i asked
i can get you the link if you want
lean fossil
sleek otter
o.O
balmy condor
doomblade gamers?
gloomy knoll
hey whispyr
dark vigil
ptr 
gloomy knoll
the venoous wounds change is the one they did for
the new snd ability right
or is this a straight out buff
lean fossil
well time to check the vault, any guesses on what back piece ill get? lol
dark vigil
i got 3 bracers
sleek otter
!bis
balmy condor
how much u think it's worth
well if you look at the pins, the energy change is neutral
dark vigil
buff on multi target tho
gloomy knoll
what pin
balmy condor
yeah that's why it got removed
gloomy knoll
oh i see it
not used to sin abbreviations lol
that's what i figured tho
but it's a 3% buff from cttc overall so same same
balmy condor
isn't feral like
dark vigil
feral is good but the legendary they buffed and nerfed
balmy condor
a different discord
dark vigil
was dogshit
mellow pier
imagine willingly playing feral when u could swap boomy
dark vigil
but funnel 
limber lion
I started reading discord during my Soulforge Torghast run and died to the torment
fak
nerf pls
balmy condor
I started reading discord during my Soulforge Torghast run and died to the torme...
better than reading discord out loud on stream
dontlookatmyclipstheyrecursed
dark vigil
so dogshit i have to wait another week to get zoldyck
stoic needle
<@!502859708504342538>
balmy condor
dark vigil
maybe i should just make doomblade
stoic needle
to the moon we go
balmy condor
are we becoming the people we swore to kill
limber lion
Also, I wanna test out tiny blades on Torghast with 3x Unceasing Chain Link (450% generator after finisher)
dark vigil
:monkach
stoic needle
i mean tbh i was in here saying that I wished that doomblade was good a month ago
limber lion
But I'm not gonna craft the legendary for it
So someone else do it please, cheers thanks.
balmy condor
i mean tbh i was in here saying that I wished that doomblade was good a month ag...
yeh
stoic needle
i just thought it'd take more than a 50% buff to the dot to do it
dark vigil
balmy condor
well the dot is the main part
balmy condor
<:REEeee:448483436618055711>
just run twisting
stoic needle
isnt the envenom damage the main part 
balmy condor
dark vigil
got up to jaina today and it wouldnt let me continue
dude
i knew they would add mounting later on
so i just didnt bother
balmy condor
running.... anything?
dark vigil
i just run nightstalker and go invis through the maw anyways
stoic needle
tbh i wish they didn't add mounting to the maw
dark vigil
9.0.5 will add a new maw mount too
limber lion
I haven't done any twisting corridor myself either but the questline itself literally gives soul ash as a reward
No reason not to do it.
dark vigil
yeah
i did it on my other characters
for the soul ash
but now im cucked, they removed SOME of the timegating
balmy condor
isnt the envenom damage the main part <:monakHmm:648673669526192178>
maybe I'm stupid again
dark vigil
i did like 3 quests back to back but got stuck and having to wait
balmy condor
we sim
dark vigil
they didnt really change anything
sleek otter
Will def be even more skewed with 9.0.5
balmy condor
yeah the buff will definitely pull it up
I just thought the difference between bleed and envenom damage was bigger
and turns out they're like around the same
balmy condor
so I guess neither one of us was right osh
stoic needle
balmy condor
stoic needle
i dont really trust wowhead ptr patch notes anymore
but I really hope that one isn't true
balmy condor
spice spire
for me*
balmy condor
I mean doomblade has always simmed higher for me
stoic needle
idk tbh
balmy condor
but the envenom fix certainly helps
spice spire
It's not by a small margine, it's like 150 higher now
stoic needle
like i said i don't trust wowhead ptr notes
spice spire
O
spice spire
this is live, not PTR sims.
stoic needle
different thing
dark vigil
wut u mean
spice spire
223 pants + 235 doomblade shoulders beat 235 zoldyck pants and 200 shoulders essentially
stoic needle
well yes, 223 > 200 lol
dark vigil
yeah i guess ill prob just make doomblade
balmy condor
like i said i don't trust wowhead ptr notes
stoic needle
i still think zoldyck is the better first craft
balmy condor
I agree
stoic needle
especially because doomblade isn't very good for M+
spice spire
It's hard carried me up to here.
spice spire
I just hit a breakpoint where I don't have shoulders
dark vigil
3k soul ash
stoic needle
by the time 9.0.5 hits I could have 235 doomblade, zold and some rank of duskwalkers
dark vigil
duskwalker should be dank for sludge
lean fossil
so i got voracious gorger spine 226 with avoidance and arachnid cipher ring 226 in my vault that makes me question things lol i simmed myself and the ring is replacing the same ring but at 203 ilvl, and sims as more dps than the weapon, my question is for how hard it is to get weapons, should i take the weapon tho it would replace a 220 oh or take the ring?
limber lion
the envenom fix is live
Wait, which bug? Envenom not benefitting from Pandemic anymore or something else?
balmy condor
yeah
limber lion
Ah that's Pog
balmy condor
it was still pandemicing in sims
limber lion
Yeah and removed from the game when they fucked up DS
dark vigil
real question is why does envenom not poison the target instead of giving you a buff
makes no sense based on its name
idk why they changed that
viral vigil
So hows Venthyr looking for Sin rogues in 9.0.5
stoic needle
so i got voracious gorger spine 226 with avoidance and arachnid cipher ring 226 ...
if you pvp you can get 226 weapons guaranteed, but you can also get 226 rings guaranateed. I'd say the pvp rings are 'worse' statwise than the arachnid cipher ring. but what weapons do you have now?
balmy condor
wait you have a 226 mainhand
dark vigil
dungeon slice
balmy condor
and gear compare
stoic needle
ah you've got 1 226 already, def go for the ring
balmy condor
yeah
lean fossil
domina's oozing shiv 226 and voracious gorger spine 220
balmy condor
ring for sure
strange python
So hows Venthyr looking for Sin rogues in 9.0.5
I've been using venthyr instead of night fae for a while, and i love it in pve. though id say it's use in pvp wont be changed
icy crater
220 ๐ฆ
lean fossil
alright and yeah my and pvp dont mix lol im terrible at it
balmy condor
don't pain yourself with gear compare btw
lean fossil
me*
stoic needle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/puBbd76vr1RxFTz9doAq1e finally broke 5.7k
viral vigil
I've been using venthyr instead of night fae for a while, and i love it in pve. ...
hm maybe. But just a one touch damage button that adds more shadow damage to a target in combat. I could see it's use like Sepsis just a press on a kill target and go
balmy condor
top gear has a button to select all vault items
so you just import, select all vault items, sim
and you're done
strange python
hm maybe. But just a one touch damage button that adds more shadow damage to a t...
ofc, its just that sepsis works so smoothly into rotations its hard to give up in pvp. especially on sin, you can pop it once and if you have to restealth you're still doing crazy dot dps. if you're going for a go onto a target the consistent damage might be good though
we'll just have to see when its out how people feel about it in high rated
fiery mauve
Assass with venthyr sounds better than NF because you zug zug anyways and donโt look for resets
But NF is stronk
And still has possibility of being better
fiery mauve
Theyโre both 90 second cds
fluid crystal
top gear has a button to select all vault items
wait top gear has an option to add vault items or are you talking about gear compare?
stoic needle
i mean flag is basically a dot too, just requires contact with your target to do damage
fiery mauve
But the haste from thrill seeker sounds better then mastery from niya
balmy condor
wait top gear has an option to add vault items or are you talking about gear com...
yes, you just open your vault, and then /simc
fluid crystal
interesting will have to try that next week
fiery mauve
And if you zug zug it sounds better
strange python
when you pop flag, you're looking for a full go with the haste buff and staying onto your target
you want to make use of that when you can
fiery mauve
Thatโs what youโre doing with sepsis too
stoic needle
if you sepsis and then try to re you'll just get taken out of stealth by the bonk at the end
strange python
sepsis is good utility as well
stoic needle
so they're basically exactly the same except flag requires uptime
fiery mauve
Sepsis gives you a cheap shot/garrote
strange python
combo pt as well
fiery mauve
During go
stoic needle
true
balmy condor
interesting will have to try that next week
even marks them for you
and has a one button
balmy condor
i dunno why good things happen to bad people either man 
lean fossil
whispyr give me that trinket bud, i need it for raid ๐
fluid crystal
cool cool, I have just been running a gear compare mostly do sim them that will make it much easier
lean fossil
we are doing prog on heroic sire ๐ฆ
balmy condor
I'll never be able to parse on sire
lean fossil
whys that?
balmy condor
because all of phase 3 is brain power for call outs
and markers
cause my raid is uhhhh......
mechanically challenged
I put bleeds up on sire and then run around soaking seeds for 15 seconds
its actually so sad
frozen jasper
Is the enven buff fix for sims why i lost like 50dps ST in sims? Was wondering
balmy condor
yes
stoic needle
wild, iqd sims higher than phial for me
balmy condor
blame koji for being fun police
balmy condor
wild, iqd sims higher than phial for me
frozen jasper
Haha well, the sims are more accurate now arent they ?
frozen jasper
But the minus 50 brought me back under 6k
stoic needle
2 rings and a phial or iqd and i'd be a 6k andy 
frozen jasper
So its kinda sad
balmy condor
2 rings and a phial or iqd and i'd be a 6k andy <:Sadge:722115893810823179>
ring gang 
stoic needle
frozen jasper
Were the ptr sims for 9.0.5 also Affected By that?
stoic needle
i guess i should try to hit 1800
balmy condor
Were the ptr sims for 9.0.5 also Affected By that?
yes
frozen jasper
So the sims in the pins arent that accurate ?
balmy condor
well depends on which ones
frozen jasper
The leggo ones from fuu for example
stoic needle
I just realized that was a dslice sim so that's why iqd simmed better
frozen jasper
I mean the ones from 5 days ago
echo cargo
I just realized that was a dslice sim so that's why iqd simmed better
IQD sims extremely high for me regardless, it's just buttcheeks ๐
stoic needle
nah its amazing
stoic needle
blasphemy 
stoic needle
if you bother me about it enough I'll do it
rerun the sims
balmy condor
sold
react to this if rerunning sims on a tuesday afternoon is a great time
yo bet
balmy condor
FIVE?
stoic needle
6 tabs actually
balmy condor
I find your lack of sims disturbing
I think I had more
but I cleaned up this morning
stoic needle
rip bis list
balmy condor
truly the F of our times
stoic needle
you say you got rid of it because of the community, but i bet it was because you didn't wanna resim the dslice bis list 
balmy condor
nah I was actually just waking up to 2-3 dm's every tuesday and wednesday morning asking if they should take an item that simmed higher from the vault
because the bis list didn't have it
and that's when I knew
it's not helping
frozen jasper
LOL
stoic needle
lmao
i just know the game is gonna give me the dumb fucking vers/mastery ring at 226 next week now that I want a ring
i can just feel it
dusky vault
it's not helping
It honestly doesnt tbh because no1 is getting every bis item. If m+ items in 9.0.5 could go to 226 then maybe but at 220 it's still the same problem
balmy condor
you want to complain about dark theme
I'll tell you right now
that fuu uses discord light mode from a browser
get mad about that
frozen jasper
Im out for today guys Pray for good vault tmrw
balmy condor
dusky vault
Also fuck my vault. My 2, 226 items are both minor upgrade and my 223 is a huge upgrade. I guess ill equip my 6th 223 item :pepeclown-1:
:pepeclown-1:
balmy condor
:pepeclown-1:
dense hamlet
i wish u get a wild remornia in ur vault 
balmy condor
indeed
dusky vault
Meme broke 
balmy condor
empyreal right now ->
stoic needle
balmy condor
much better
bleak sedge
Are there people here that i could send my logs to ? Im suddenly stuck at finding what i do wrong and its super annoying XD
stoic needle
droptimizer for dslice and patchwerk for raid, M+ and pvp
balmy condor
Are there people here that i could send my logs to ? Im suddenly stuck at findin...
no people here, only robots
bleak sedge
no people here, only robots
are there robots that i can send it to ? :3
dense hamlet
any raidbotters
balmy condor
๐ค yes
stoic needle
my paltry 16gb of ram can't handle that
icy crater
I just wanna force push my shit and go home for the day
gotta get that vault loot
and pop off in raid tonight with the new guild
stoic needle
I've gotta do real life responsibilities
stoic needle
the thing that pays for my wow subscription 
dense hamlet
oh no u have to be subbed to use all dungeons/droptimizer
this will take a year
well
icy crater
pay your $3
dense hamlet
i wont
icy crater
cough it up
dense hamlet
i have to pay blizzard to play the game
and pay to droptimize my character
to pay blizzard
to play the game
subtle tundra
then dont
dense hamlet
i wont ๐
fleet whale
looks like 8 energy from VM is official now
icy crater
It's going to be hella feelsgood in pvp tbh
dense hamlet
good
balmy condor
looks like 8 energy from VM is official now
has it not been?
sonic hollow
what does ass lack that would make it competitive with outlaw/sub?
kindred crescent
if i MA for mythic+ would i go dashing for raid?
fleet whale
sin is already competitive with sub, and is arguably better
in 9.0.5, it will be competitive with outlaw in raid
but where sin is mainly lacking is it's baseline aoe kit
sleek otter
why, is it both in ptr?
balmy condor
what does ass lack that would make it competitive with outlaw/sub?
about 3 weeks
shut garnet
no am just looking
sleek otter
XD
sonic hollow
about 3 weeks
specifically?
fleet whale
snd energy regen is gone from sin
tribal marlin
it's just some scuffed data Mining
fleet whale
wowheads notes are jank
shut garnet
ic
tribal marlin
but it's possible they are iterating on spells
fleet whale
mmochampions are easier to read
fleet whale
i think he's asking you to be specific
balmy condor
it got buffed a bunch
it's getting buffed in 9.0.5
buffs > no buffs
therefore good
fleet whale
btw i was just thinking about this fun gimmick build in my head
fleet whale
MA with new flag, with lashing scars conduit
Nighstalker talented, could lead to insane opener damage
balmy condor
its possible
shut garnet
id imagine if you could actually consistently get vendetta to 1 min on fights
it would be really good
fleet whale
maybe, but it's significantly behind Doomblade, dashing, and Zold
i mean in legion, you could get below 1 min cd vendetta's with duskwalker's
and it usually wasn't one of the two leggos you used
dark vigil
@kindred crescent dont know if someone answered you but you should go zoldyck in m+ and raid
kindred crescent
oh okay thank you
past valley
does flayed toxin benefit off of master poisoner and dashing scoundrel?
stoic needle
if i MA for mythic+ would i go dashing for raid?
You'd go zoldyck for M+ and raid and then doomblade later
limber lion
https://gyazo.com/eec5a5d192056aa453ad2382219f5ee4?token=cae430d92b72bdd44cd31f2c712c883d
The mad lad did it
stoic needle
There's really no reason to run MA anymore
limber lion
There's really no reason to run MA anymore
Not true. Still worth it to run it on shorter fights and Sludge.
MA sims higher on 2 min fights, but if you don't care for the minmaxing or whatever, sure, just run Zoldy.
stoic needle
Are there any 2 min fights in raid?
balmy condor
https://gyazo.com/eec5a5d192056aa453ad2382219f5ee4?token=cae430d92b72bdd44cd31f2...
insane
stoic needle
I could see it on sludge but I bet duskwalkers will be better soon
limber lion
Maybe for mythic, for Heroic MA will probably still beat it.
People usually run Zoldy in mythic as well just because the execute is so important. But if you're a padder, you should get more raw dps out of MA.
past bobcat
So what is sin rogue best lego then?
limber lion
So what is sin rogue best lego then?
Zoldyck for most content.
tribal marlin
I could see it on sludge but I bet duskwalkers will be better soon
I don't think tho
I smell some scuffed timer with downtime giving Vend like 70sec CD
such that it's basically completly dead
balmy condor
I'm no longer supporting the list due to the impact it had on people making gearing decisions based on it
loud light
the command will one day exist again just to spit out the explanation of why there isn't a bis list
icy crater
!bis
"Secondaries don't matter, just use top gear sim until it stops going up"
eternal totem
that's crazy lol, im guessing people were using the bis like a bible be all end all list
balmy condor
I mean people legit were simming themselves
eternal totem
rather than as a supplement?
balmy condor
and then asking "how can this sim higher, it's not bis"
balmy condor
and that's just not how it works
so bis list, when using it for comparisons and stuff, solid stuff
has interesting data
but using it to gear yourself
is fucking int
spice spire
I love inting tho
balmy condor
so we're not doing that
rather not have that information public and hurt a minority, than have the information, and the majority uses it to troll
limber lion
1 out of 11 bis pieces down, only 10 more to go!!!
balmy condor
spice spire
Pulling the bis list is the equivalent of drawing exodia, good luck brethren
rapid lance
is there a haste % where I can expect less energy issues or I'm just bad? lol
limber lion
No.
rapid lance
good talk
balmy condor
sin is a slow spec
that's how it be
and sometimes, they really do are like those
ya feel?
pulsar sluice
it really be like how it do but most of the times it just be what it be ya know
rapid lance
I feel ya
dark vigil
you're a turbo spec with like 3 targets tho
stoic needle
some of my favorite moments in this game are when i'm sitting there, lust popped, potion drank, trinkets and vendetta on cd, hammering the boss with envenoms, and i think to myself... damn, it really sometimes almost actually be somewhat certainly around like that, don't it?
dark vigil
esp with new vw coming
balmy condor
some of my favorite moments in this game are when i'm sitting there, lust popped...
people really think that are the way things be, but it don't have it when it do, right?
limber lion
Lmao, I sim 36 dps higher when I precast Memory 15s before the pull on 2min MA fight with Memory/Dreadfire.
Time to start requesting 20s pulltimers on Shriekwing.
Huge 0.6% damage increase.
fleet whale
Sadly sin isnโt like NYA fire where itโs damage is insane enough
To actually justifying doing that lol
stoic needle
people really think that are the way things be, but it don't have it when it do,...
honestly I think they are just confused. they really might think they want things to be approximately unlike it already is, but then when it gets changed, they get mad and wish it was like it aint. they really need to make their minds up tbh. they aren't prepared for what it'd be like if it really do.
tidal gorge
Random Q... if you switch covenants and had, say, Kyrian reverberation maxed out before, would your new covenant ability conduit be maxed or would you have to level it again?
balmy condor
level
stoic needle
what about if i was venthyr before and returned back to my home where i belong
will i keep my old lashing scars conduit level
balmy condor
yes
stoic needle
sick
dark vigil
My sepsis is still ilvl 158
Cring
U don't use the conduit anyways but still
Maybe I'll get it from world boss one day before 9.1
fleet whale
lashing scars looks kind of fun
dark vigil
Yeah the conduit seems impactful
fleet whale
how many youtube clickbait vids do you think there will be regarding Lashing Scars pvp burst builds?
dark vigil
At least 9
fleet whale
"Get INSANE openers with this Conduit!"
dark vigil
Get insane openers with serrated bone spike hidden OP trick your pvp partner doesn't want you to know
fleet whale
"Rogues busted in Arena? Venthyr Assassin/sub rogue highlights"
tender beacon
!bis
limber lion
I just came up with the cheesiest 2 minute kill opener, it's actually so Pepega
stoic needle
My sepsis is still ilvl 158
Septic shock sepsisdoes 15k+ dmg in pvp
slender urchin
stoic needle
removed
You could keep the bis list around but make the default landing page just a giant paragraph that says
ILVL IS BETTER THAN THE ITEMS ON THIS LIST. WHEN IN DOUBT, SIM IT. SECONDARY STATS DONT REALLY MATTER :KEKlaugh:
stoic needle
If only people could read
alpine oasis
maybe have it point to a rick astley song?
balmy condor
bis lists in the past have tried that, and it didn't work there either
like I knew this day would come
but I wanted to see if people have changed
and the community was ready for data like that
and not just ook ook gear good
stoic needle
Blame classic
balmy condor
like fuu's spreadsheet used to be a private thing as well that he would send to a couple people who were interested in showing the numbers
but then he asked us like should I just make it public for transparency, etc
and that went over fairly well, even though people were definitely confused by it
so I thought hey maybe community has wisened up, we'll do a bis list
and it was going okay
and then sin got more popular
and the old problems came back, as expected
deft rampart
vast forum
tbf
bis lists change (although very slightly) based on race ๐
unless the bis list also assumes bis race
balmy condor
^
balmy condor
big true
vast forum
what's the point of getting bis gear if you look like shit
limber lion
Does Nightstalker snapshot garrote/sepsis damage?
balmy condor
yes
limber lion
Pog
balmy condor
NS should be used on a nightstalker rupture tho
also should be noted that in torg, nightstalker and subterfuge do not stack
stoic needle
That's so lame
limber lion
I'm just thinking about this cheese opener with EP, MFD, Nightstalker, MA lege and double on-use trinkets
:----)
But yeah sure is, I always Pog when I get a free Nightstalker-talent then I forget about it and just play like I would with just Subterfuge
Where instead you should be changing the rotation to account for NS
Oh wells
limber lion
Yeah and soon MA trinket cheese is gone too :''(
Just tried Sepsis out and it doesn't look like it snapshots.
Just Garrote.
Not sure how relevant info that is because well who runs NS and who wants to open with Sepsis
dusky vault
The one advantage of bis list is for ideal legendary stating and slot but even that is minor and for most people that won't get 225 ilvl then making your legendary in your weakest slot is usually the best
balmy condor
I think mystlers thing has combinations for that
storm forum
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
hoary ridge
balmy condor
own
dense hamlet
well that would be beroken
low girder
balmy condor
stack 15 sin rogues
all taking doom blade
they each bring 3 dots
45 dots
ez doomblade stack
nocturne herald
Would Zoldyck matter if in feet vs legs?
dense hamlet
legs more stat
nocturne herald
For some reason t3 boots on my server are 27k and t2 legs are also 27k so debating if that alone is worth making the boots > feet lol
stoic needle
For some reason t3 boots on my server are 27k and t2 legs are also 27k so debati...
if you arent doing mythic raiding, you will get more of a dps boost from 235 legs + 226 boots vs 235 boots + 226 legs. there's a BOE pair of mythic level boots you can buy on the ah, but no BOE legs
nocturne herald
I wouldn't be buying BOEs on AH at all tbh
mental wing
Oh wait you meant leggo. Kek i Need to sleep
nocturne herald
350k for mythic BOEs is way too much for one slot to me
nocturne herald
I'd been trying PvP but RBGs have been annoying finding groups and my last 3-4 losses have felt like their entirely lopsided gearwise but I guess that's just what happens with yolos lol
I guess t2 legs and upgrading my MA ring to 210 is probably the best use of dust and stats tho
tender notch
is zoldyck still the go-to?
void pecan
yas
lusty surge
dark vigil
yes
balmy condor
lmao
dark vigil
hoary kernel
balmy condor
faint harness
shortlived
stoic needle
I'd been trying PvP but RBGs have been annoying finding groups and my last 3-4 l...
don't join any groups that don't use disc or ingame voice chat. it's literally a waste of your time
stable moss
about to make my first assa legendery what should i make
faint harness
ingame voice
Surprisingly good
balmy condor
about to make my first assa legendery what should i make
zold, or if you play outlaw in m+, you can go doomblade for raid on sin
dark vigil
zoldyck
faint harness
Why they buff it then
dark vigil
because
eternal totem
what's the best slot for doomblade?
eternal totem
thank you ๐
dark vigil
i believe
eternal totem
ah
balmy condor
Why they buff it then
cause execute on zold is very close behind so you just de-facto run that I guess
blizz logic man
idk
faint harness
I mean they give execute to a class in legendary form and get surprised nobody plays anything else
faint harness
Depends on fight
balmy condor
yeh