assassination

[shy dust]

Cloaking for xymox traps

[tribal marlin]

so you soak 3+ stack (let's say 3 start to be deadly) and then cloak for 6sec, and the soak an additionnal 3 stack, so you can solo soak something that was intended to be rotationnaly soaked.

[stoic needle]

Why is it not

[shy dust]

Highlights how had cloak is this tier

Because it’s a 2 min cd

[fallow otter]

Yeah dk is the problem to our spot

[drifting cloud]

my friends guild killed inerva in 10 pulls because they lucked out on an add cast at 25% phase change, next week it took them 20 to rekill

[shy dust]

In comparison dks can ams it

Warrior can spell reflect

Human racial

[tribal marlin]

yes that's the point

[stoic needle]

I don't see how that makes cloak less useful

It's not unique, but it's still useful

[drifting cloud]

because youre using a 2min cd for something 5 other things with smaller cd can do

its like saying block + gripping threw traps is useful

[fallow otter]

Maybe next raid will have dunk like ghuun and dk cd too long to be able to do

[tribal marlin]

In my example you can't use DK because AMS has a max absorb. So you soak your pool, you get a like 3k ticking dot that last a very long time like 30s+. And you get a stack every, said, 1.5sec soaking and you want to soak like 12 stacks. So basically in that case only Rogues and Mage/Paladin can immune soak effectivement

[fallow otter]

Lol

[tribal marlin]

And then you'll want rogue because Bubble/IB is 5mn while cloak is 2

[drifting cloud]

totally gonna happen with how theyve gutted immunities in last 5 tiers

remember Jaina, didnt cloak literally only work on siegebreaker in last phase?

[gloomy knoll]

cloak is for ghosts

or for succ

if you use it for traps

ur actually trolling

[tribal marlin]

like remember Fallen Avatar ?

maybe ?

[echo cargo]

ended 6.5k total in DoS +17

feelsproudman

[drifting cloud]

yeah more than 5 tiers ago

[tribal marlin]

that's was an example of cloak soaking being the only really effective way of soaking these beam.

[gloomy knoll]

they never gonna do soakgeras again

rogues need to get over it

we not gonna be cloak bis again

ask for a real ability

hit them forums

[tribal marlin]

hahaha yeah I know

[shy dust]

Sepsis benefit from zoldyck

[drifting cloud]

when theres literal abilities now in the game that cloak should work on but doesnt

[tribal marlin]

i'm just pointing the fact that unless you design a specific ability that work this way, you won't ever see cloak soaking being a real value

[drifting cloud]

thats kind all you need to know

[shy dust]

[tribal marlin]

over other soaking defensive

[gloomy knoll]

true

[stoic needle]

Wait cloak stops you from getting succed?

Wtf

[gloomy knoll]

i think people really hate it too

like it's one thing to class stack for dps advantages

[tribal marlin]

And ye basically if they take time to design such ability (like my example : pools you need to do a rotation of soaking because it leaves you with a nasty dot. And CoS soaking it just basically trivialise the mech), then I can bet you that cloak won't work.

[gloomy knoll]

but to be forced to class stack to be able to clear the boss

makes people really fucking mad

[fallow otter]

Maybe... Just maybe evasion is the ability that will carry us to a spot next tier

[tribal marlin]

Evasion use to work with a lot of ability in dungeons

like most recently the 1st boss of Sanguine Depths

[stark heart]

it's still quite helpful

[tribal marlin]

or like 3rd boss of King's rest

[stark heart]

I like how people panic on 1st boss in SD when I face it away

[fallow otter]

Shade aoe in hoa

[frigid sleet]

Wait you can evade the charge in sd ?

[gloomy knoll]

yep

and you should

really helps healer not have to deal with getting every1 up for sever

[honest karma]

Just leveled my rogue and wondering what legendary i should make, i do hc raiding, m+15s and some pvp around 2k

[balmy condor]

If you’re looking for one legendary, I suggest MA

Fairly good on all 3 specs, in all content

[viral meadow]

second that

[honest karma]

Yeah my thought aswell, seen some talk about doomblade aswell, as it is getting a buff in 9.05

[viral meadow]

there are top 100* logs with MA in all spec in the raid too

[balmy condor]

Yes but doomblade is sin only, and only really on single target

[viral meadow]

so I should finish my zoldycks first aye

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Zoldyck is the all around for sin

Ma is the all around for rogue

Doom/dusk are gonna be solid single target

But in terms of Aoe, zold still wins

[honest karma]

Atm my plan is mainly sin so i thought zold would be pretty nice

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’s not great in pvp sadly

[viral meadow]

problem is if you ever wanted to use another spec youd have no leggo, where MA is excellent. I would advise to craft first if you think theres a chance of not playing sin

[honest karma]

Yeah that is my main issue with it, like it is something, but more dmg in execute wont make or break much in arenas

[viral meadow]

that being said, sin is de wae

[honest karma]

To be clear this rogue is just an alt so i think its sin or nothing haha

[viral meadow]

zoldylocks

[balmy condor]

You can play MA on sin

Perfectly fine

[viral meadow]

my MA still sims higher 😦

by like 12dps

[balmy condor]

It’s about equal in m+, has some good burst single target, great pvp

Like ma is really good

[honest karma]

True, in m+ with MA so u still open with 3 garrotes?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[honest karma]

It seems like MA will be the way, it just feels like that Lego should be a sub lego

[solar hare]

It has assassin in the title

[median mango]

This is peak performance theorycrafting right here

[solar hare]

[main crypt]

hey, do they do a beta/ ptr for new raids each tier?

[iron orchid]

Yup, ptr should be updated for the 9.1 raid soon after the 9.0.5 patch goes live on retail, then there should be schedules for raid boss testing days

[main crypt]

awesome thank you

[iron orchid]

@stoic needle @balmy condor thanks for pinging
I was sleeping tho but thanks for advertising the channel

[ornate lake]

Anybody knows if rogues can Cloak the annihilation on xymox mythic? I got seed duty and havent been to xymox yet.

[strange python]

[upper sierra]

You can cloak the dmg not the suck

[wind nacelle]

I’m on trap clearing duty, the one time I needed cloak for anni I got mauled @_@

Kekekek

[kindred crescent]

Is dashing what I want if I mainly raid?

[spice spire]

Zoldyck’s

[verbal mantle]

you want zoldyck, dashing is slightly better only on a pure ST situation

[tardy compass]

might be a good idea to craft DS if you play outlaw on non ST bosses

[agile geode]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[agile geode]

lol

11/01

[frigid kestrel]

@vestal wren you got a comparison sim for sub/sub current ST vs 9.0.5 ?

[agile geode]

i think not

[vestal wren]

@frigid kestrel 9.0.5 is still in development, so i wouldn't start to compare stuff now

if anything all 3 are close with subtlety possibly slightly behind

[frigid kestrel]

Also I meant sub/sin

[solar hare]

Its in pins

Is it not?

[vestal wren]

i don't understand how that changes anything?

[solar hare]

Not comparison but you can find the old ones

[frigid kestrel]

Doesn’t just noticed the typo

[vestal wren]

i wouldn't compare ptr before its stable, its atm buggy, stuff is not working and unfinished

[frigid kestrel]

I check pins before I ask questions, what I asked for wasn’t there

[vestal wren]

we have no idea if we see additional tuning changes, fixes to spell flags or even the changes they added in the bluepost but not on ptr

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

[vestal wren]

I would not worry about 9.0.5 before we have a release date

the thing guy pinned in outlaw i don't understand

because he cropped the data, so its not complete (tho that's not a big problem)

its a sim mystler did to test the implementation

[agile geode]

if rogue is standing this way even in 9.0.5 i think i'll froze until 9.1

[vestal wren]

you can't rly make a prediction about 9.0.5 yet

[agile geode]

yy i know

[vestal wren]

to many changes that will in the end impact the output of classes

[agile geode]

hoping for something better

i think

dk AMZ must be nerfed a bit

[vestal wren]

if you want feel free to create and sim equal profiles for all specs/classes to get a rough idea

dps wise

[agile geode]

In new sin pins is considered CTTC?

[left halo]

Noob question, in the pinned message what VW stands for?

[marble hemlock]

venomous wounds

[left halo]

OPS ty m8

[tribal marlin]

Stay tune we might have a good patch today

for the PTR

[coral imp]

what are you expecting

[tribal marlin]

Well I would appreciate at least a legendary vendor to do better testes first

But regarding balance and tuning idk

they are bufing Leggo but we can't test theim so it's kinda pointless, but I expect some change regarding spell that are not related to DPS

I.E. DK nerfs :3

[coral imp]

oo ok

[tribal marlin]

and some more number tuning as well

They need to do something about DH

dh is doing 1k less theorical dps than Feral

1000

[scenic kelp]

hey guys i will prepare me for 9.0.5 for the assa changes. wich legendary will oyu prefer in 9.0.5? i have crafted a zoldyk already but will be a stronger one come for 9.0.5?

[tribal marlin]

Doomblade looks strong, Duskwalker can be usefull and maybe the goto for pvp as well. I'd recommend you to just wait

Wait a bit that we start doing sims and stuff and testes

[scenic kelp]

so just safe ash for craft it then

[tribal marlin]

Yeah unless you already have Celerity / MA / Zoldyck / Finality 235 and sit on 8k soul ashes xD

but I doubt it ^^

[coral imp]

i might just switch to venth this week

just to help out in keys

[tribal marlin]

meh Korayn is very good in key

but why not

Venth looks good but we need more time to fully test it

[strange python]

I wish they would make sepsis spread to 3 targets like it does in torgast

That would be awesome

[coral imp]

two of my groups are mostly nightfae unfortunately

[trim zinc]

Even if venthyr is better idk if im gonna change
Cuz i hate questing on wow

[coral imp]

yeah im dreading the idea of it 🔫

[raven locust]

It'll have to be a sizable difference for me to change

[marble bear]

so Venthyr is okay? o.o

thats the covenant i wanted

[raven locust]

It's a decent choice for Assassination

Pins has the numbers

[dawn root]

But if you pvp as sub/sin NF is very strong. Venth would have to be huge to ever swap to that.

[fiery mauve]

Outlaw dreadblades venthyr when

[slender trail]

in this channel? never 🙂

[marble bear]

the only pvp i do is world and bgs with friends to cap weekly shit

arenas are for weenies

[raven locust]

They would need to buff Dreadblades by quite a lot to be viable unfortunately

[ocean zodiac]

Has anyone tried exsanguinaite in sludgefist? Stacking all bleeds and then popping cds and exsanguinaite on pillars?

[fleet anchor]

When Alacrity doesn’t exist 😛

[faint harness]

based on what? your expectation or something else

[coral imp]

I do pvp too so im still contemplating

[icy crater]

I wish I was night elf for pvp man

[trim zinc]

I never did but idk ur gonna have to refresh bleeds with vendetta on target idk if thats good

[tribal marlin]

OH wait

I just catched something

maybe

https://youtu.be/PuwhaKo3UL8?t=1089

time stamp

he's talking about "new unlocked abilities on our soulbind"

He's not mentionning passive effects nor enhancement or what he's talking about "abilities"

maybe we'll get some new active abilities xD

[ornate epoch]

So assassination got cut to the chase back which I think is good so we don’t have to keep refreshing snd 😄

[stoic needle]

feels like shit, just want a phial

[iron orchid]

im gonna hit you

like real hard

i want da dagger

[stoic needle]

bro if i could trade you i would

[iron orchid]

I would have given you my 2nd phial

[stoic needle]

[fiery mauve]

Afaik they really only mentioned adding a new row to soulbinds

[stoic needle]

well, at least I can enchant my old offhand with lightless force for more aoe in M+

[wind nacelle]

I still expect the covenant leaders to become a soulbindable character too

In the last major patch

Also share 226 dagger

[nocturne orchid]

ME WANT DAGGER

[craggy needle]

does shiv not show up on logs right now?

[warped beacon]

great question bud

[iron orchid]

Yup

[deft vault]

Have some sims been done for assas on sludgefist with the buff to the vendetta legendary

if so is it bet6ter than sub?

[dark vigil]

Wat

[spice spire]

Disappointment waiting room

[tribal marlin]

Nah just some expectation

[spice spire]

Mood.

[stoic needle]

just pvp 4head

you can't get a phial from pvp

i'm tired of getting weapons

[balmy condor]

I didn’t sim for sludge specifically, but it does seem higher

Baseline that is

[tribal marlin]

Problem I can straight up tell you is that :

1. Vendetta last 20sec so you don't get full value on pillar (minor)
2. Duskwalker will give just not enough CDR for it to be exactly good. So you might just have to Vendetta mid pillar which is even weaker

Maybe it's still the best one

but yeah, that's problem I can see rn

[deft vault]

@balmy condor by baseline you mean that by default assas is better than sub on sludge? or baseline assas is better than baseline sub

[tribal marlin]

I'll just go Zoldyck and do regular pull 2nd 4th+lust and capitalise on that giga 4th pillar damage (make sure to have Shiv up for all pillar, that's easy)

same pots and play double on use as well

[balmy condor]

with dusk sin sims higher on a standard 5 min than sub

with zold as well

[deft vault]

kk gotcha

[tribal marlin]

I think you gonna have hard time beating subt on sludge tho

Maybe the good call for Assa Sludge would actually be

[royal fjord]

Do you craft Zoldycks on legs? or feet is better

[tribal marlin]

well Master Assasin

MA + Nightstalker + MfD

• double on Use

[balmy condor]

leg

[wide ridge]

did you guys craft zoldyck legs with haste and vers?

or something else

[balmy condor]

haste crit and haste vers are both fine

[wide ridge]

word

thanks

[dim mirage]

hashtag stab faster

[stoic needle]

i went haste vers but wish i went haste/crit because haste/vers doesn't match my feelcraft

[dark vigil]

only go haste vers if ur gonna pvp

[balmy condor]

?

haste vers is great in pve too

[deft vault]

i mean zoldyck aint good in pvp tho

[icy crater]

can confirm haste vers is good in pve

[balmy condor]

yeah zold is also trash in pvp

[ocean zodiac]

do you think it is viable for sludgefist going exsanguinate (maybe also elaborate planning and nightstalker) and stacking bleeds and vanishing/exsanguinating on pillars?

[balmy condor]

no

exsang is mega shit

[ocean zodiac]

lmao

my hopes and dreams are now ruined

[edgy notch]

what do you think about the possibility that there are tier sets on legs

[tribal marlin]

if you want meme go MA NS MfD (and sync Seps with Vanish everytime also if NF)

[balmy condor]

we don't even know what tier sets are going to look like yet my dude

[stoic needle]

blizzard has said that the tier sets will be cosmetic mostly and that they are looking for ways to allow you to have tier set bonuses without being forced to wear certain items

[gentle sable]

Sounds good

[edgy notch]

decisions...

[stoic needle]

just craft it on legs

[balmy condor]

just know that if you mess up even a little bit your character will be unplayable and automatically delete itself from all blizzard services

never to be seen again

[stoic needle]

you'll also never be allowed to play rogue again

[edgy notch]

10 dps is obviously a game changer

[stoic needle]

the only class available to you after that is mage

[gentle sable]

Why Sim says dushing scoundrel best patchwerk Lego but none is using it?

[balmy condor]

because zoldyck is 10 dps lower

[stoic needle]

because the raid isn't patchwerk

[pseudo hamlet]

Because there's no clear ST fights... I mean mostly.

[tribal marlin]

Quite a bit more actually

[balmy condor]

and has a better damage profile, and better cleave

[tribal marlin]

made the sim for my very own profile recently

Doomblade was 1.3% better than Zoldyck

[balmy condor]

good thing we're not talking about doomblade then

[tribal marlin]

dashing was same

[stoic needle]

how much dps would doomblade need to be over zoldyck to make it worth using

there's gotta be some point

[balmy condor]

I think how it's tuned now makes it worth

[tribal marlin]

I think also Zoldyck lost quite some value with the Envenom fix

in the simc engine*

[spice spire]

Already crafted on shoulders

[balmy condor]

it's like 3% from ptr

zoldyck didn't lose nearly as much as dashing did

[stoic needle]

I crafted on gloves, thinking about recrafting

[spice spire]

Don’t max-min just send it

[balmy condor]

the difference in loss between zold and doomblade was pretty whatever

[pseudo hamlet]

Why?

[balmy condor]

they both lost

[timber gale]

do we prefer haste gems

[gleaming eagle]

wait what

zold got nerf?

[balmy condor]

yes, but sim yourself

[balmy condor]

no, a bug got fixed in sims

[gleaming eagle]

oh

[balmy condor]

envenom doesn't pandemic in game

but it did in sims

[stoic needle]

For haste crit. Probably not worth

[balmy condor]

so envenom uptime was higher than intended

[gleaming eagle]

make sense

[icy crater]

Hmm, I have a doomblade, should I just rank that up instead of building zold from scratch?

Or does zold still hold a ton of value on fights like sire

[balmy condor]

if you plan on doing any sort of aoe, you would build zold

[icy crater]

I'll do that then

[balmy condor]

if you plan on focusing on execute, like for sire, you would build zold

[pseudo hamlet]

wait, it doesn't? I thought that the buff from Envenom was longer if you use it twice in a row(as a finisher)

[stoic needle]

You'd get both ideally

[balmy condor]

it's worked that way for years, yes

but now it doesn't

[stoic needle]

On a fight where execute kinda doesn't matter like shriekwing I'd probably use doomblade

[spice spire]

Shadow nerf

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh, that's weird they changed it...

[stoic needle]

Where else. Maybe xymox and hungering?

[balmy condor]

and altimor

and sludge

but yeh

[gentle sable]

Bears go to execute

[stoic needle]

Altimor has good cleave

Yeah

[balmy condor]

good for the bears

I'm glad they go to execute

that doesn't change anything though

[tribal marlin]

yeah seems like Zoldyck is -1.2% compare to Dashing/Doomblade with default profile

[stoic needle]

I mean you get multiple periods of +30% damage that gets mirrored to the boss

One for each dog

[balmy condor]

osh

please

[tribal marlin]

I mean in 9.0 not 9.0.5

[balmy condor]

for fucks sake

[stoic needle]

?

[balmy condor]

brain on

[stoic needle]

Excuse me?

How is that not good

[balmy condor]

ITS STILL THIRTY PERCENT OF THE FIGHT

[stoic needle]

No it's not? You have three dogs that die

[balmy condor]

if I give you 1 dog instead of 3

and the 1 dog lasts the same amount of time as the 3 would

[stoic needle]

That's 4 execute phases if you include altimor himself

[balmy condor]

that's the same amount of time in execute

it doesn't matter if there's 1 dog or 3 dogs or fucking 20

you're spending the same amount of time

in execute

[tribal marlin]

Whispyr he's right (still toxic so dude !)

In facts, you are not "winning" damage hitting the bear in execute .... You are loosing damage not doing so

[balmy condor]

I'm toxic cause I've had this conversation with osh before

[tribal marlin]

That's the "other face" of the coin when playing execute

[icy crater]

20 dogs might suck compared to 3 because you might not be as CP efficient with ruptures lasting full duration

[balmy condor]

and we've talk about how it doesn't matter

cause it's the same

[icy crater]

🙂

[tribal marlin]

all warrior know it well

[stoic needle]

I don't remember that conversation

[tribal marlin]

you are tuned to do some damage

if you don't hit anything that go into execute as much as possible, you are doing less damage that what's your supposed to and be tuned for

[gentle sable]

It would be easier to explain 1 dog with 100 life or 3 dogs with 33 life for 1 dog execute is 30life and for 3 dogs is 10+10+10

[stoic needle]

Regardless of whether it's one dog or 3 dogs it's still a gain to focus them in the execute because the damage is shared

[balmy condor]

it's just this

the time you spend in the execute on the bottom

combines to be equal to the time you spend in execute on the top

you're getting 30% on altimore, and 30% on the dogs

and it's the same time for both

if you make the 3 dogs 1 dog

[tribal marlin]

Yeah and forgot what I said actually

[balmy condor]

you would just have 1 altimor again

[tribal marlin]

because they have shared HP it doesn't even matter which one you are targeting

[balmy condor]

it's the same way in m+

it's still 30% of the fight

doesn't matter if it's 30 seconds or 5 minutes

it's 30%

[stoic needle]

It does slightly because of instant poison

And blindside

[tribal marlin]

yeah blindside

agree

why instant poison so ?

[main forge]

So... according to that math, Its best to stay on the first two dogs... and then switch to Altimor for the last dog.... and you would get a net gain.

[balmy condor]

instant poison works off zold

[balmy condor]

yes

[gentle sable]

But raid leader says stay away from 2nd dog and gather at altimor :(

[stoic needle]

Well I get what you're saying but I'm still unsure if doomblade is strictly better than zold on altimor

[balmy condor]

Post buff I would be floored if you didn’t

It’s 3% better single target, and you can keep the dot up on both targets permanently

Well except the second dog obviously

[tribal marlin]

driving me mad xD

ok actually I think you win compare to full hitting boss

because they have shared HP

if they had not, it same because you still need to remove boss HP so you still spend 30% of time in execute

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[tribal marlin]

but because they share HP, you have batter execute uptime hitting the dogs

[balmy condor]

You definitely hit the dog

[gentle sable]

I still want to play necrolord for perma bleed, but Sim say no :(

[balmy condor]

It’s just the same execute time though as just having 2 targets

[tribal marlin]

No because if you have 2 target, while you hit the 2nd target the main target HP isn't droping

so at the end you still need to drop this HP

such that you end up having 30% execute time

in a case where you are solo dpsing

[balmy condor]

Hm

[tribal marlin]

but since they share HP all damage you do on the dogo is also removed from the boss

[balmy condor]

I guess

[balmy condor]

We can set up a sim later to check

[tribal marlin]

like imagine boss + Dog is 1000 + 300. You only need to do 1000 damage to kill. What ever target you are hitting.

if you only hit boss you do 300 execute and the dog die from shared HP (highlighting because that's important)
If you hit dog you first you get 90 execute bonus, then boss have 700 and you still get 300 execute, so you have 400 execute

see the pic ?

[balmy condor]

Ye

I’m not convinced that portion will actually beat just two target doom

[tribal marlin]

oh well that's another storry for sure

[stoic needle]

All my dreams are coming true

Venthyr sin arguably best rogue spec

[balmy condor]

[grizzled owl]

Do you think so ?

Would be lovely

atm assa is best on damage to boss, actually 4th spec

[tribal marlin]

It seems like Zoldyck the most out of that nerf btw

[grizzled owl]

but it still lack on cleave ?

[tribal marlin]

You were saying about Dashing but i'm looking at fuu's

they were all equal back then

[tribal marlin]

scroundel lost a little bit but Zoldyck legit lost 2%

[dark vigil]

the fact its out of order

is annoying me

[balmy condor]

All our garbage is so close that it’s hard to tell exactly what’s gonna be best where

[dark vigil]

i need to unlock more mogs since i had to make new blizz account

do i just run every single dungeon

on mythic

[tribal marlin]

Like Dashing is equal to Scroundel now (was 1% ahead) and Zoldyck is now 1.5% behind

man that sucks

[gentle sable]

Yohz what is this chart?

[grizzled owl]

damage to boss in mythic CN

that's for heroic

[tribal marlin]

since last assa buff

[gentle sable]

At ptr or live?

[grizzled owl]

live

but its damage to boss

[tribal marlin]

[grizzled owl]

xD

[balmy condor]

Ptr raiding?

[gentle sable]

Haven't seen this chart... The one I look says assassin 4th from bottom

[tribal marlin]

CN

ptr*

[grizzled owl]

you look at this one

which is damage

so it include damage to mobs, like in sun king or whatever

the one I first sent is pure ST damage

[gentle sable]

Oh

[grizzled owl]

which mean that in mythic raiding assa is 5th damaging spec to boss

[gentle sable]

Now It makes more sense

[balmy condor]

Can you even upload ptr logs

[grizzled owl]

do you guys really think that assa will be in a better place after 9.0.5 goes live ? Since our cleave has not since any buff, I may doubt ?

[balmy condor]

Is that a thing

[grizzled owl]

no you can't lol

[tribal marlin]

oh yes you can

[balmy condor]

It won’t parse though

Right

[tribal marlin]

but I doubt it'll go into "agregated"

logs xD

[balmy condor]

Yeah

That’s what I mean

You can log it

But there’s no like

Nathria parses for ptr

[tribal marlin]

you can't probably even find theim on the website

need to have a link

[wind nacelle]

I mean

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I assume

[wind nacelle]

Kitties and emolocks rising too

[icy crater]

It would probably help blizz if there were ptr logs, no?

[wind nacelle]

Demolocks*

[balmy condor]

Lmao, blizzard arguably doesn’t even look at live logs, let’s get one thing at a time

[icy crater]

I mean they obviously have huge caveats but I think they're still worth looking at 😛

[balmy condor]

Very volatile

[tribal marlin]

they have their own combat log analyse tools

[stoic needle]

Cttc is a minor cleave buff, but if there are no other changes we will be the 2nd best melee dps single target damage wise behind feral druid

[urban thistle]

@balmy condor Mystler told me to come doomsay in the spec channel. Can you link me your lashing scars nadjia sims for renown 23, since i haven't capped renown with venthyr yet?

[worn path]

generally haste crit for sin lego crafting? i finally got a butter knife in the vault. time to pull the trigger

[balmy condor]

[icy crater]

Makes sense.

[balmy condor]

Yeh that’s fine

[grizzled owl]

Which is close to the niche that rogue needs. I mean, having some small cheesing capacity + good ST is supposed to be our purpose

[worn path]

the crit will bring me closer to 34% so makes sense

[grizzled owl]

but we will suck until raid actually come back to killing a boss and not 3219458954309 fucking adds

xD

[balmy condor]

good meme

[tribal marlin]

And being top dps for Assa mean being completly busted in real encounter xD

But ..... you know raid value etc...

[grizzled owl]

that

it's a shame but with current game design assa needs more cleave

[stoic needle]

Meh it doesn't particularly need more cleave

It needs more encounters designed around sustained cleave, or a utility buff

And I mean, it's only 10% behind outlaw

[worn path]

Scaling next tier will save us

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

That's not nothing, but when you add the execute into the equation that's a loss that might be worth considering at least

[balmy condor]

Council 3 target cleave am I right

[stoic needle]

If only they didn't fucking heal to full when you kill one

So goddamn troll

[polar cape]

Council was supose to be the suub funel fight tough >.<

[balmy condor]

Council is bait

[tribal marlin]

council as 1 boomy and 0 dk = 1000000000 spread targets cleave.

[regal cape]

That'd cap

Thats

[tribal marlin]

= look at boomy and cry.

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

[worn path]

is it worth to cleave at all for energy regen on council

[balmy condor]

You hit them with garrotes

[tribal marlin]

Use to be that in BFA

not sure anyone dived into it in SL

might be, might not

[stoic needle]

Rip sub, November 2020- February 2021

[tribal marlin]

probably marginal if any win

[balmy condor]

It is a win

[stoic needle]

So young, so full of promise

[balmy condor]

It’s just not giga

[worn path]

we'll see how sin does on clearing up to prog tonight, if it goes well ill try and run it on council too

[balmy condor]

XxBossDamageGodxX

[worn path]

my guild is kinda meh with a bunch of returning old raiders.. you know how they do. but im always top 3 boss damage even as outlaw

which makes me happy and also depressed

[tribal marlin]

For me sin is still really low compare to my sub spec because of gear

like 300 dps lower

400dps lower than my OL, but I sucks at outlaw

[worn path]

its just more consistant

my damage fluctuates by 20-25% on OL.. its bonkers

[tribal marlin]

Sub is consistant once you get use to the encounter

there are some encounter where it sucks to be subs

but it's overall fine

the only one I dislike a lot is Hungering

that's typical fight that screw subt dps

[stoic needle]

I just like bleeds and poisons

Dots go brr

[tribal marlin]

but another "raw" 3% to assa start to be a little bit too much xD

[stoic needle]

I'm surprised that all it took was a buff to the bleed to make doomblade on top

I'm glad it's gonna see some play now

[wide bolt]

on hungering i just play chicken with all the other melee and sit under the boss at all times but im just a filthy casual heroic raider

[stoic needle]

Good

[tribal marlin]

Well, notably also Evenom fix pull down Dash and Zoldyck way more than Doom

[stoic needle]

Do we know for sure if that's intended or a bug

[tribal marlin]

I reported it on PTR

very few people play PTR and even less actually do valuable report

so they will see it

if they don't fix, consider it to be intended

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

It’s been reported as a bug

[tribal marlin]

But keep in mind that if they fix Envenom, it's another buff to assa

and it start to be a lot of buffs

So they might just let it this way

[balmy condor]

That would be the cheapest cop out ever tbh

If you let bugs exist just because you’re too lazy to tune

That’s some scummy shit

[worn path]

you mean hunters lego?

i still cant believe theres such an extensive list of bugs for rogues.. everything else seems to get hotfixed relatively quickly

[oblique flare]

let bug exist
nerf class

[balmy condor]

They keep popping up all the time

But a lot of them are hard to find

It’s not like “oh this is doing literally double the damage”

[tribal marlin]

necrotic wake hum

[inner granite]

Doomblade has little viability in a M+ setting correct?

[balmy condor]

Well I feel like that was intentional, the legendary in legion wasn’t whitelisted if I remember, but NW was an unintentional side effect of that

[balmy condor]

You mutilate quite a bit, but yeah, it’s not great

[tribal marlin]

Yeah but they nerfed the trinkets as well and i'm sure it's pvp nerf

but I played a bit of MA outlaw

and I was surprise that my giga trinket were doing .... hell lot of damage

almost 10% of my overall damage

if not 12%

in 18+ key with giga pulls

[inner granite]

Thanks, I don’t think sim will come close to beating outlaw in M+ but just wanted to make sure. Might start crafting doomblade incase sin beats outlaw in 9.0.5/9.1

[tribal marlin]

for ST trinket it's actually HUGE

[strange python]

how useful is venthyr cov in pvp ?

[tribal marlin]

Like I just keep my trinket for Pride and my mate legit don't use anything on pride, and I just rekt it. 60k dmg almost only from trinkets

[strange python]

i find it hard to use

for sin, specifically

[balmy condor]

We’ll have to see post change

[strange python]

ah ye

[balmy condor]

Right now it’s pretty garbage

[inner granite]

@balmy condor have you run sims with the new flag & doomblade or only zold?

[tribal marlin]

some are in the pins

[strange python]

was just wondering because im on the edge switching from venthyr to NF

[tribal marlin]

yes

[balmy condor]

I’ve run doomblade sims yeh

[inner granite]

Am I missing them in pins or are they elsewhere?

[balmy condor]

I just dropped them in here yesterday

[tribal marlin]

hard to miss

[balmy condor]

This is what you’re looking for

[inner granite]

Yes thank you. The top sim in pins had covenants included but only for zold, not doomblade

That’s actually a very good lead for doomblade now

[tribal marlin]

yes sorry I miss readed

[bleak sedge]

how do you guys open vs 2 targets? i garrote both but what after that?

[inner granite]

It won’t have any interaction with venomous wounds though, correct?

[balmy condor]

You snd and rupture both

[balmy condor]

Correct

[bleak sedge]

do imutilate vs first target and rubpture second or do i swap to apply poision?

[tribal marlin]

tab mutilate to apply poison should be the go

[balmy condor]

You get garrotes up, with poisons, on both targets, then snd, then rupture both

[odd heath]

Cttc and new value for venomous wounds included in this sims?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[odd heath]

Nice, thanks

[polar cape]

Doom is poping did something else happened outside of the buff?

[balmy condor]

No

[tribal marlin]

It's a combination of Doomblade buff / Overall buff throught cttc / Envenom fix

[polar cape]

Can they buff soul ash acquisition already -.-

[balmy condor]

Do they have to?

[tribal marlin]

I still have that little hope for 2leggo 9.1 😦

[polar cape]

Well i wanna craft lots of thing to meme around

[tribal marlin]

but it's very little

[balmy condor]

I think if you did it every week, you could have 5 legendaries at 225

[tribal marlin]

Assa would be so OP with Doom + Zold

Zold buffind Doom's dot etc...

[polar cape]

The dream

[odd heath]

Giga execute

[balmy condor]

I don’t know if that works

[tribal marlin]

That would be so insane

[balmy condor]

Would be very surprised

If they let interactions like that stay

[whole dew]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[tribal marlin]

They should always let these interaction stay and tune it so it's not out of control

[whole dew]

hi, dude for m+ stats is
crit =>haste >mastery > versa (8-10%)

[tribal marlin]

Removing these interaction is the easy way

but it's bad design

[balmy condor]

Mastery sucks

[whole dew]

mastery : more dmg venom and bleeds.

[balmy condor]

Thats easier said than done. If doomblade and zoldyck are both good on their own, AND they interact, you’d have to tune them so their bad individually

[spice spire]

Which I feel is worse than just flat out more damage, right?

[balmy condor]

Which then means they’ll only be good in that specific combination

That’s shit imo

[spice spire]

Or just let them be GIGA ez

[whole dew]

uhmm

[balmy condor]

Which then means you’ll only run that combination and nothing else

[tribal marlin]

but if you let such interaction, overall, work

everyone gotta have such things

[bleak sedge]

what do you mean with posions? Sorry 😄

[tribal marlin]

and it's satisfying to have your build "meaning" something

you choose these two because they interact with each other

[spice spire]

That’s true

[tribal marlin]

rather than because they're good individually

[balmy condor]

Like you have 3 options here:

1. You leave the interaction, and the legendaries are good individually, which then means you’d never run anything else
2. You nerf the legendaries and keep the interaction, therefore you would never play them outside of that combination
3. You remove the interaction

[balmy condor]

Make sure the targets are poisoned

[tribal marlin]

I mean I don't thinik you or I have the truth, that's completly subjectives point of view

[spice spire]

When I say that’s true - it’s not necessarily good. Pidgeonholing into one build that’s infinitely better than the rest feels bad

[bleak sedge]

so if they are not i mutilate the one without?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[grizzled owl]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2WBe6bwusZKZD9nVSaUJYX

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bK6XNMiJ3geeuADroafTw9

[bleak sedge]

alright thx !

[grizzled owl]

Feel like with proper weapon&legendary I would already be even between assa and outlaw in ST ?

[stoic needle]

Haste > crit > vers >> mast

[tribal marlin]

Yeah they're probably best taking both because of the interaction, but then you might still play another combination because you want idk Duskwalker CDR for SOME reason

Or maybe other leggo ALSO have interaction

like Duskwalker + Dashing they do interact

[stoic needle]

Who's to say that dashing + zold wouldn't also be good even if doomblade dot worked with zold?

[tribal marlin]

you get more energy, so you get more CDR etc...

[stoic needle]

I don't think that doomblade + zold synergy neccesarily has to mean that it's the de facto option

[whole dew]

[tribal marlin]

Dashing indeed synergyze naturally with Zoldyck

[balmy condor]

The quick math that says doom > dash and the fact that doom + zold has specific interaction in that case

[tribal marlin]

Hopefully simcraft exists xD

[stoic needle]

You get 15% more poison crit and those crits then do 30% more damage, that's a synergy too just a less obvious one

[balmy condor]

Yes of course

But if you’re getting more damage from doom to begin with

And doom also gets buffed

Then what’s the point

[tribal marlin]

yeah Zold is at the end just a 30% buff to poison and bleed

[stoic needle]

Can't we just sim this right now with advanced sim

[balmy condor]

Go for it

[whole dew]

its ok for stats and trinkets? or what stat need upgrade.
approximate%

[stoic needle]

Well I guess you'd have to manually whitelist doomblade dot for zoldyck

[tribal marlin]

so we're doing 2 leggo sims now 😄

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’m not sure how it would handle that

[tribal marlin]

that's quite a bit early :3

[balmy condor]

I agree but we’re in this argument

[tribal marlin]

I'm not sure simc will include Doomblade damage increase by Zoldyck

[balmy condor]

That’s fine, stop worrying about secondaries

[stoic needle]

It's fine. Also 🖕 on your trinkets >:(

[spice spire]

Stats are fine trinkets are fine

[tribal marlin]

but you can interpolate with quick math

[spice spire]

Secondary stats matter infinitely less than 8.3 agility is king baby.

[stoic needle]

IQD and Phial

[spice spire]

(They matter some, just way less)

[balmy condor]

We scale with agility boys

[stoic needle]

I cry evertym

[balmy condor]

More agility more damage

To the moooooon

[balmy condor]

One day man, I pray for you every Monday

[spice spire]

Screenshotting whispyr confirming that we scale

[iron orchid]

DA DAGGER

[balmy condor]

There’s already an out of context screenshot floating around

[bleak sedge]

how do guys handle spawingng adds (for example inerva) i can barely reach the big add so i dont rupture it (just inerva and the cast add)

[balmy condor]

You walk over and bleed it

[stoic needle]

I COULD'VE JUST PVPED FOR ONE

[iron orchid]

Yeah bro

Juste do more keys dammit

[bleak sedge]

okay i wasnt sure if i should do that thats why i asked 😄

[iron orchid]

[balmy condor]

You should be focusing the add

That’s the mechanic

[bleak sedge]

yes i focus the small one but we ignore the big on on hc

[balmy condor]

[bleak sedge]

i rupture it after the small one died to get energy boost

[balmy condor]

You just ignore it?

[stoic needle]

Scaling confirmed

[balmy condor]

[bleak sedge]

we cleave it sorry ignore is wrong but main dmg is on inerva

[tribal marlin]

HAHAHA

I knew it

https://i.imgur.com/iBnEtw5.png

they're same

[balmy condor]

Should be the other way around

[tribal marlin]

and the winner is ... not Zoldyck ...

[bleak sedge]

it works onhc 😄

[balmy condor]

Does it interact tho

[tribal marlin]

I don't think so

but I did not check

with interact it probably mean doom + Zold is better

[wide bolt]

if it doesnt its just bis from stats

[balmy condor]

dash + doom makes sense though

more energy more mutilate more doom more good

feelcraft checks out

[tribal marlin]

more envenom

more everything

But yeah then ...

[odd heath]

Expedient Build on shadowlands 9.1 confirmed

[balmy condor]

I want legion sin back

[tribal marlin]

with NS envenom ?

[balmy condor]

vanish into them giga envenoms

slow as fuck

[stoic needle]

Yes please

[balmy condor]

hits like a truck

[stoic needle]

I wish they would make sin more like arms

Huge hits

I want envenom to be like a fucking cannon

[balmy condor]

but legion poison bomb also fucking sucks

[tribal marlin]

imagine hitting 3 PB in a raw on mythic Kin'Garoth

[balmy condor]

so

[tribal marlin]

on the add

[balmy condor]

that's kinda sad

[stoic needle]

There so many ways to fix pb

[balmy condor]

yeah

removing it

[stoic needle]

I like the uncapped aoe aspect

[spice spire]

The change they made like six months ago? Doubt they’ll revert that quick

[balmy condor]

make it do increased damage on more targets?

idk

[stoic needle]

Could make it a finisher or a guaranteed proc during shiv

[tribal marlin]

yeah so I was about to say ...
Then you have this :
https://i.imgur.com/H0j0GR3.png
(execute patckwerk)

[balmy condor]

I don't like pb

[spice spire]

I don’t like that row of talents tbf

[stoic needle]

The problem with pb is that it's random

Remove random

Suddenly it's great

[eternal timber]

Yall - QQ - Is a ring the best equipment for my Doomblade leggo? or Shoulders?

[stoic needle]

Doomblade is gloves or shoulders

[wide bolt]

dont know if id be making leggos for next patch rn if thats your intent

[eternal timber]

Im so dumb

thanks

lmao

[stoic needle]

If you aren't killing mythic slg any time soon shoulders are probably the best bet

But also what xerroth said

[eternal timber]

No, I just think Doomblade fits my playstyle the most TBH

[stoic needle]

Ideally you want both zoldyck and doomblade

[balmy condor]

doomblade single target stonks

[eternal timber]

ikr

Zoldyk doesn't give me enough poison vibes

I wanna bleed these MFers out

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna apply to every guild with a picture of those sims

[balmy condor]

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/fTcFJox.png

mmmh

interesting design

[stoic needle]

It's not noticeable at first but when your rupture during execute crits for like 3k a tick you notice it

[balmy condor]

hm yes poison bomb

hm

[stoic needle]

3 envenoms in 7 minutes?

[balmy condor]

that timeline is like 20 seconds

[stoic needle]

Oh

[balmy condor]

more like 10

[tribal marlin]

10 actually

30m from Env, 30m from PB

in 3 global

4 with TB

yeah good

[stoic needle]

10 million damage envenom

[tribal marlin]

if you reset the Zoom he did like 5% of his overall Damage in 10sec.

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/luigi-mario-nut-super-nut-gif-13073710

[tribal marlin]

hahaha I found another one

legit his main damage source

[eternal timber]

???

[tribal marlin]

mmmmmh

[eternal timber]

How though?

luck?

[tribal marlin]

That's was the RNjesus of PB back in ATB ye

[stoic needle]

Now imagine if pb were just a 5cp finisher

[shrewd plinth]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[tribal marlin]

This guy legit did 4% of his OVERALL damage in 10sec of a 7mn fight, with 1 passif effect

[dawn root]

There's 0 reason why sin doesn't have an aoe finisher like sub that isn't a talent.

[tribal marlin]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AFaxLD7HGTKMnBcJ#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=14&translate=true

if you want to see it by yourself xD

[stoic needle]

Agreed

[balmy condor]

CT baseline

[stoic needle]

Imagine

Quad garotte, fok, CT

MFD rup

Into PB proc

[balmy condor]

I also want 150 energy baseline on sin

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

like without vigor

[tribal marlin]

Gosh I just checked mystler post in #tc-research

[stoic needle]

With baseline ct we'd actually be able to do some decent cleave and aoe dps

[balmy condor]

yeh

[stoic needle]

Well even more decent

[tribal marlin]

Man his implementation doesn't even take my new "Sync behaviour" for Sepsis which also apply to Flag ofc

Means that, it's possibly even higher

Sepsis sync is nice to sync blah blah some good dam, some mastery

but we're talking about giga haste buff here xD

[stoic needle]

[nocturne orchid]

PB procs are huge

[balmy condor]

they were in legion

[nocturne orchid]

i've been reaching 4.5k on my shittily optimized toon

when pb combines with the nadja buff

[balmy condor]

Imagine if we had an actual single target talent in that row

[nocturne orchid]

yep

[stoic needle]

KINGSBANE

[balmy condor]

Interestingly enough, dashing actually works with PB for some reason

Which is pretty ???

[nocturne orchid]

isn't there a trinket with give you an additional dot?=

or does it override your poisons?

[balmy condor]

Flayedwing?

[nocturne orchid]

i think so

[balmy condor]

Trinkets are their own thing

They don’t interact at all

[nocturne orchid]

i have it on my hunter that's why i ask

[balmy condor]

Flayedwing gives you a buff for an hour that causes you to do nature damage

But since it’s a trinket, it doesn’t get buffed by mastery, shiv, etc

[nocturne orchid]

that's nice to know

[balmy condor]

And it also doesn’t override your poisons, because again, it’s just a buff

[pulsar sluice]

So doomblade was buggy this whole time? Or is that just in PTR

[balmy condor]

ptr

envenom was oversimming

[fleet whale]

Lashing scars looks kind of juicy

[dark vigil]

whos ready for more ptr changes tomrorw

pogies

[stoic needle]

Doomblade is also buggy and the dot itself is acting weird and being calculated only from MH damage and not from both weapons

[gritty mason]

whats everyone using for m+ as legendary

[stoic needle]

As well as being capable of being parried which is weird

Zoldyck for m+

[gritty mason]

wbu for raid zoldyck ?

[stoic needle]

Yep

Doomblade perhaps next patch for single target

[gritty mason]

am i wasting soul ashe getting zoldyck right now for assas. as my os to play around with because of upcoming changes or still worth while

[stoic needle]

No, zoldyck is still the best all around legendary

[safe canopy]

better to have a leggo than to not

[stoic needle]

Because execute is strong, pure single target fights are rare, and it's bis for m+

Sin with zoldyck will have the best execute in the game

In 9.0.5

[safe canopy]

how high keys are you doing as assas? ive been a meta slave playing outlaw for anything higher than 15

[trim zinc]

Phial doesnt get buffed by shiv+zold???

[stoic needle]

Nope

[stoic needle]

I'm stuck at 14s right now, I could do 15s-18s easily if I had a consistent group

Or if I had my own 15 key

[balmy condor]

nop

[stoic needle]

Gonna try to push my key this week and see how high I can go

[safe canopy]

i just couldnt imagine doing itwihout triple SS

[stoic needle]

The difference in applicants between a 13 and a 14 is actually insane lmao

Assassination is unironically good in m+ right now, people just have small brains and can't comprehend rogue specs that aren't outlaw in keys

Just dot everything that moves and you do good damage, have infinite energy in aoe

[safe canopy]

what kind of overall are you getting

[stoic needle]

5-6k

The higher the key the higher my overall

[safe canopy]

naturally with more execute time

[stoic needle]

It's the same amount of execute time proportionally but the mobs live longer for your dots to actually tick

You basically want to use garotte on cd

And vanish and vendetta on cd

Sin pumps on fort weeks

And your damage is super consistent. A fire mage goes from 3k to 12k or 15k with combust, you are 6k steady without CDs and even more when you vendetta something or vanish

[spice spire]

Did one 13 last week and pulled 5.2k, did 12s and ranged 4.1-4.9k.
It’s wild how damage works when dots fully tick

[stoic needle]

My man dei did 13k in ardenweald DOS 17

Where's that clip

[spice spire]

13k overall??

[iron orchid]

KEKW

Nope

[spice spire]

I was about to say. Deï dog. You don’t need that dagger my guy

[iron orchid]

https://www.twitch.tv/polyvalence_dei/clip/WanderingUninterestedLorisSuperVinlin

[spice spire]

I can pull 10k on packs.

[iron orchid]

That's what he was talking about

[stoic needle]

I tried to tag you but my phone doesn't like the special characters

[iron orchid]

looks strange to see the UI i used two weeks ago

I changed everything

[stoic needle]

I stated using the personal resource display, I like it a lot

[spice spire]

I was going to say, with standard bars you’re actually smurfing

[balmy condor]

fkin hieroglyphs

[iron orchid]

Still have those

[spice spire]

What the fuck

[iron orchid]

Hey, those are basic characters in french

[balmy condor]

french isn't a real language

[spice spire]

Æ is as well?

[iron orchid]

Deïræ

The æ is totally a special character tho

[spice spire]

I didn’t realize that consisted of basic characters. Oh I see that’s why I was confused

French is romantic whispyr tf u mean. English is the only fake language I know

What even is a GERMANIC language, that’s just German my guy

Okay, I’m going off topic . Anyway, Doomblade bis????

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

Default ui is a 100 dps loss

[coral imp]

I've done 16 to 18s and the damage sin does is pretty good

And I'm drooling and not optimizing

[stoic needle]

Sin is 10% behind outlaw in aoe and cleave

People are just smooth brained

And don't want to accept the truth

[spice spire]

I’m 100% drooling in keys. I optimize raid, that’s about it. Keys are just the side hustle

[torpid spoke]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[iron orchid]

I'm 10% + 100 dps behind

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

Lmk if you need any help setting up elvui

[coral imp]

But even my premade group wants me to go outlaw

[iron orchid]

understandable

depends on how well you are doing with both specs, and how hard you plan on trying both

[stoic needle]

Unless you're pushing 20+ it doesn't matter which spec you play

[iron orchid]

Sin in keys requires more practice to get every setup right in every key

[trim zinc]

My tank says to me "ill chain pull fuck u and your re stealth"
SucksMan

[coral imp]

I'm new to rogue and this is my first expac so I'm doing 14s and 15s to learn outlaw

I mean I want to lol

[balmy condor]

tank trolling the key

[spice spire]

Missing subterfuge

[stoic needle]

Just make friends with a tank that kites out of the fire mage's flame patch you'll do giga damage and they'll do zero

[balmy condor]

imagine being a tank and deciding that a chain pull is more important than one of your dps

[coral imp]

[dark vigil]

chain pull deez nutz

[stoic needle]

Gotta go fast, duh

[iron orchid]

When they understand they can get a 15% dmg reduction on silenced mobs, they start changing their minds

Well, my tank did

[balmy condor]

but why reduce damage

[iron orchid]

But anyways he was kinda happy not having to run from pack to pack, because he is a BLOOD DK

[balmy condor]

when chain

[spice spire]

Blood DK AND assassination rogue? Whew that’s scuffed

[iron orchid]

gotta love the challenge man

[stoic needle]

Maybe I'm biased but I think that sin will get more viable for high keys when we ||scale|| with more crit

[iron orchid]

i love it when our balance druid is missing and we get a Fury warrior

[spice spire]

Did you just say sc*le in this Christian CHAT?

[stoic needle]

When we can ooga booga fok rupture like sub can ss bp

[tribal marlin]

At some point in BFA, chain pulling was not so bad as Assa

especially as NE

because you keep up that bleeds up engaging a new pack and can just do more fok

and more fok

foking for like

[balmy condor]

"sin will scale"
"but how"
"IT JUST FEEELLS BETTER LEAVE ME ALONE"

[tribal marlin]

But only in giga density

[balmy condor]

where's the lie tho

[stoic needle]

Sin m+ viability scales with crit

I'll die on that hill

[balmy condor]

have fun dying

[spice spire]

Something, something 34 something, something

[balmy condor]

crit was bonkers cause borrowed power, not because crit was bonkers

[tribal marlin]

I had almost 57% crit toward the end of

BFa

and the sim still sayz me to get MOAR

[stoic needle]

Crit isn't bonkers but it directly affects the way the spec plays in aoe

Cuz fok is a trash fire

[soft shale]

i had a 100% crit set done

was funny

no damage sadly

[balmy condor]

and haste affects how the spec plays everywhere, but we still don't scale

[stoic needle]

I just said that m+ viability scales

[balmy condor]

but how

[stoic needle]

That's different

[subtle tundra]

ok what if shiv made envenom do aoe

[stoic needle]

The current m+ meta revolves around burst

[calm grail]

Unfortunately, the nature of how Assassination DEALS damage and the time it takes, it just can't compete atm in AOE.

[balmy condor]

you got crit cp "scaling" in single target, and you got haste energy "scaling" in single target, and we're trash at scaling there

how does adding more targets change that

that's the disconnect I have

[stoic needle]

More crit means you can set up your dots quicker

And actually do some damage before everything is dead

[calm grail]

Bring back shrouded suffocation as a legendary!

Or something...