Its a change to be precise
#assassination
warm parcel
fleet whale
so we should wait and see
warm parcel
How itll play out? tbd
severe relic
guess ill wait to make an assass lego till it goes live then
balmy condor
questionable
fleet whale
were gonna prolly lose like 2 APM i bet
restive crescent
@balmy condor they didn't remove the energy regen..... check wowhead
tidal gorge
♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ sin rogues comin thru ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ ♿ (I kid)
fleet whale
on ptr the energy regen isn't there
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> they didn't remove the energy regen..... check wowhead
what makes you think that I don't know what I'm talking about
stark heart
I mean default profile napkin math shows energy gain and loss being roughly the same but you guys keep doomsaying
balmy condor
just out of curiosity
limber lion
Yeah, my keyboard can barely keep up with the insane speed that is Assassin Rogue.
stark heart
drowsy hollow
there's other bugs too
Flagellation haste gives you stacks after it expires, but it's 0% haste haha
split veldt
isnt the energy still there tho?
deft vault
its nerfed from 20% to 10%
balmy condor
it is not
drowsy hollow
wowhead says there should be, but it's not there
restive crescent
what makes you think that I don't know what I'm talking about
unless the datamining on wowhead is wrong they just made the energy regen available to all specs and not just sin
balmy condor
the 10% energy you got, is completely removed
obtuse anvil
smokebomb
balmy condor
unless the datamining on wowhead is wrong they just made the energy regen availa...
the mining is wrong :)
split veldt
its nerfed from 20% to 10%
20%? in game it says 10%
limber lion
Wowhead says that it's there, so it must be!! 
balmy condor
Wowhead says that it's there, so it must be!! <:peophammer:590832416138985472> <...
he's right
in wowhead we trust
never steered us wrong
drowsy hollow
I honestly don't know if holding Flagellation is the play, it's a pretty sizeable hit.
outer lodge
We need our lord and savior scottish rogue prophet to make a video to put us all at ease 
balmy condor
We need our lord and savior scottish rogue prophet to make a video to put us all...
oh god I would actually lose it
limber lion
You don't get much value of it if you only get 3 casts off during the buff.
balmy condor
wake up tomorrow to a shit storm
outer lodge
@balmy condor 
faint canopy
There is no sims for ptr yet, right?
balmy condor
NEW SIN BUFF ROGUE OP 9.0.5 INSANE CHANGES MASSIVE CRAZY LEGENDARIES? HUGE GAINS? SIN BROKEN OP NOW
balmy condor
There is no sims for ptr yet, right?
no
obtuse anvil
wake up tomorrow to a shit storm
are you ready for a he who must not be mentioned video on "INSANE CUT TO THE CHASE UNLOCKS SCALING"?
limber lion
The changes are very recent.
outer lodge
thats legit gonna be the title and you know it! Lmao
gloomy steppe
Sounds like you were destined to be a YouTuber Whispyr
outer lodge
"ASSA FINALLY SCALES WITH GEAR LATER IN THE PATCH"
balmy condor
Sounds like you were destined to be a YouTuber Whispyr
I learn from the best sources of ||mis||information around
severe relic
Zold still safe to craft or wait now?
balmy condor
Zold still safe to craft or wait now?
yes
severe relic
ty
stark heart
We need our lord and savior scottish rogue prophet to make a video to put us all...
I don't get the reference 
faint harness
@fleet anchor do you think they bring them all equal to then nerf/buff them as a group later on?
doesnt make much sense to buff specs with good legendaries MORE because they already have good legendaries instead of nerfing?
fleet anchor
the best form of scaling is hotfixes 🤣
limber lion
Them buffing Affli locks' Malefic Rapture is great meme
balmy condor
the best form of scaling is hotfixes 🤣
give me strength, somewhere between 5 and 8%
drowsy hollow
You don't get much value of it if you only get 3 casts off during the buff.
I imagine it'll depend on the sims, but you're giving up one flagellation every third vendetta. I got 22 stacks instead of 12 but I'm likely not playing optimally.
limber lion
Ah alright.
fleet anchor
Aff QQ'd enough to lobby staying op broken spec apparently
faint harness
we need similar lobby powers koji
gloomy steppe
tbf it was an 18% Aff nerf
faint harness
make it happen
twin prism
why cant i log in wow?
fleet anchor
They probably need it
faint harness
it was 18% to the spell
stark heart
didn't you see Xyronic cry all the time on twitter about Warlocks?
tidal gorge
18% was also quite the buff. Eh? 
drowsy hollow
to be fair, demonology is unplayable unless you also do super funky stuff
and destro requires cleaves
fleet anchor
But it wasn't 18% though it was 18% of Rapture right?
faint harness
Yea
balmy condor
why cant i log in wow?
have you tried plugging it out, and then plugging it back in
hollow escarp
qq: the energy regen was moved to all specs or removed completely? 
faint harness
qq: the energy regen was moved to all specs or removed completely? <:hmmge:77802...
gone
hollow escarp
tyty
fleet anchor
Rapture is what? Like 1/3rd of their damage?
faint harness
ye
signal gulch
didn't you see Xyronic cry all the time on twitter about Warlocks?
when was the last time he did that
gloomy steppe
Yeah, 30-35% ish
stark heart
when was the last time he did that
during this tier
fleet anchor
Seems a little too close to the pleb specs
limber lion
Seems a little too close to the pleb specs
And the pleb spec still being the best spec on this shitty class. 
drowsy hollow
Do y'all prefer bug reports here or in another channel?
fleet anchor
Can't nerf Hunters or Warlocks because Mages will still be better
Can't nerf Mages because that's illegal
twin prism
@balmy condor i know its a meme but i literally just did
gloomy steppe
Gotta make sure all of the pure DPS Ranged classes are performing
twin prism
Wtf is going on is it just me?
balmy condor
Wtf is going on is it just me?
yes
faint harness
Wtf is going on is it just me?
dont think this channel is meant for tech support
balmy condor
also that
drowsy hollow
I did report that too
frozen jasper
lmao
drowsy hollow
can't hurt
split veldt
haha we all should
limber lion
Fight the good fight.
limber lion
balmy condor
I don't have the energy for zoomer sin channel
fluid creek
RIP SIN
balmy condor
drowsy hollow
I'm super excited for the new flagellation
it hits hard and you get even more haste now
signal gulch
during this tier
you mean when he complained corruption would fall off when you were 60 yards away from the target or when there was a bugged interaction between spells
hollow escarp
I don't have the energy for zoomer sin channel
remember back in the early SL days when only 5 people would regularly chat here? 
signal gulch
i guess he shouldnt have pointed those 2 things out
balmy condor
remember back in the early SL days when only 5 people would regularly chat here?...
comfy swamp
hollow escarp
fluid creek
Slice and Dice now has a 5% chance per tick to trigger Twilight Devastation!
balmy condor
slice and dice has ticks?
there's medication for that
give it to my cat and stuff\
fluid creek
tHe eNeRgY pRoC dOeS
balmy condor
split veldt
echo cargo
stark heart
you mean when he complained corruption would fall off when you were 60 yards awa...
https://twitter.com/LimitXyronic/status/1330641325306368006 very elaborate abilities report btw
Twitter
balmy condor
can you guys argue about warlock in a warlock channel or something
signal gulch
idc about warlock but dont flame someone for something that they didnt do
balmy condor
!guide is what you're looking for
prisma monolithBOT
drowsy hollow
no idea how much it'll sim, but flagellation likely is the best dps of the abilities now simply cause it does damage now, hahaha
tidal gorge
You just wait, they'll go completely off the rails and buff ER's combo point to EIGHT combo points
stray ivy
wtf is flaggleagtion do now
balmy condor
wtf is flaggleagtion do now
pretty much the same thing it does now, without a second cast
drowsy hollow
it does initial damage too
balmy condor
no idea how much it'll sim, but flagellation likely is the best dps of the abili...
also kinda doubt this tbh
stray ivy
so stay nite fe?
low girder
comfy swamp
bring the swamp back
dark vigil
it does more dmg too
balmy condor
we have no idea yet
dark vigil
conduit also stronger
gloomy steppe
Alternatively, rather than swapping, wait for the sims.
limber lion
Don't do anything today that you might regret later.
drowsy hollow
I'm low geared, but in vendetta flagellation with the conduit was 14k damage over 12s plus haste buff
balmy condor
bring the swamp back
too much pepega, chat too fast, brain hurty
fleet anchor
Swap your covenants and delete your legendaries now!
dark vigil
whats the cd on flag again?
drowsy hollow
90s
dark vigil
hmm not bad
stoic needle
you need to spend 18 cp in 12 seconds for new flag to do more damage than sepsis
warm parcel
Cant even test flegy on ptr cause I already left venthyr once on my rogue 
shut garnet
swamp invaded shrek confused
echo cargo
honestly I just tune into this channel every patch / ptr so I can see @balmy condor slowly descend into madness
dark vigil
yeah but you get haste oshosi
drowsy hollow
you need to spend 18 cp in 12 seconds for new flag to do more damage than sepsis
even with the haste buff being easier to stack?
dark vigil
anbd the QoL of not losing a gcd for haste stack
stoic needle
im just talking about the damage portion
stoic needle
the haste will be good for sure
drowsy hollow
18 CP in 12s isn't that bad to get
dark vigil
esp if u use in vendetta
stoic needle
haste is better than mastery from grove invigoration but grove invigoration has nonzero uptime outside of the activation window which has to be considered as well
dark vigil
and not having to use as many slice and dice overall the fight
balmy condor
honestly I just tune into this channel every patch / ptr so I can see <@!1670905...
I can handle like 5 people asking questions and wanting a conversation. But then PTR comes out and the channel floods with people going NO THIS IS HOW WHAT THE SO STRONG OP WE SWITCH THIS NO YOU THATS WRONG EVERYTHING GOOD WE PLAY SIN?
and it just doesn't work
sudden brook
does the new flag scale better or worse than old flag?
split veldt
man the wording on this makes me think it being not on the PTR is a mistake
balmy condor
or the wording on the datamining is the mistake
split veldt
true
balmy condor
split veldt
drowsy hollow
wait for a blue post
fleet anchor
Mystler has already told Squishei and he's going to remove it
dark vigil
datamining wording is usually massively scuffed
limber lion
man the wording on this makes me think it being not on the PTR is a mistake
Yes, because Wowhead is the one that decides what happens in the PTR and not the other way around.
split veldt
if the energy is still supposed to be there, will it be a nice buff?
stark heart
or the wording on the datamining is the mistake
can't be true! 
dark vigil
also we'll prob have like another 2-3 ptr builds
stray ivy
now just buff fan of knives like how they buffed earthquake on shemn
stark heart
slash s
balmy condor
can't be true! <:angery:433318454502752258>
never before seen!
fleet anchor
So that I don't have to react to this for the next 2 weeks 😄
gloomy steppe
How many more aura buffs until Sin becomes the best PI target
dark vigil
the 10% energy regen on slice and dice currently only is for sin, now itll be for all 3 specs
balmy condor
So that I don't have to react to this for the next 2 weeks 😄
YOU? you did your job, there's a thing in #tc-updates
gloomy steppe
It was removed
shut garnet
tooltips are always 100% accurate and should be trusted at all times brother
stark heart
did you just post live tooltip screenshot?
drowsy hollow
also we'll prob have like another 2-3 ptr builds
more, I expect a build a week for the next month. Maybe they'll be nice and this comes first week of march, but I doubt it
dark vigil
yes
shut garnet
do you know whos game you're playing?
shut garnet
🧢
hollow escarp
ptr tooltip
stray ivy
mutt?
balmy condor
hey guys is infinite stars good or do we keep stacking expedient
shut garnet
lmao
dark vigil
no cast full moon
stark heart
@balmy condor aren't you happy channel is so alive? /s
gloomy steppe
If you would like to play the IS lotto please reroll DH
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> aren't you happy channel is so alive? /s
never been better
hollow hawk
dont give a shit about your healers just stack a fuck ton of stars
short hamlet
do we know if our emoticon also lost its energy gain 
limber lion
K I'ma just go to bed. Good luck dealing with this @balmy condor 
hollow escarp
hey guys is infinite stars good or do we keep stacking expedient
full mind flay 
stark heart
in 2 hours aus open semis are starting I believe
balmy condor
K I'ma just go to bed. Good luck dealing with this <@!167090536602140682> <:hea...
oh I'm long gone brother, It's shitposting hours now
stark heart
spice spire
Fuck. You beat me to it
tidal gorge
Expedient is sim bait, go infinite stars for sure
stark heart
(ot tho, sorry)
hollow hawk
during raid I actually would take off cloak just to keep healers on their toes
fleet anchor
Assassination channel scaling is really high right now
strange python
is doomblade gonna be any good with the buff or is zoldyck prolly still gonna be the go-to lego for sin?
spice spire
Full mind flay got top on The puppy, it’s BiS 
balmy condor
I actually don't have the energy for PTR day sin channel
stark heart
I mean if you permit...
spice spire
Who does?
fleet anchor
I actually don't have the energy for PTR day sin channel
Subscriber only mode?
shut garnet
the poor innocent souls tryina come here for a genuine question
"expedient stack guys"
stray ivy
damn assassin/sub both last place in raid
teal bloom
How much would tiny toxic blade need to be buffed for it to become bis XD
balmy condor
Subscriber only mode?
I've been a frequent proponent of slow mode for stuff like this, but we don't do that here apparently :P
drowsy hollow
I enjoy rogue as a fun alt, but honestly, I'm not mad if it's not the best spec after all of BfA
stray ivy
its not even middle
dark vigil
@teal bloom like 700% lol
strange python
well to be fair i think we should be putting up massive numbers considering we hardly bring any group utility to raid
stray ivy
thats not what bobby kottick wants
dark vigil
thats the idea..
stray ivy
not enough rogue players
teal bloom
@dark vigil getting close 😱
strange python
seeing 2 of our specs at the bottom and one middle of the pack kinda sucks
drowsy hollow
you have cheat death still, numbing poison works on bosses if you somehow have no locks in the raid
light plume
I enjoy rogue as a fun alt, but honestly, I'm not mad if it's not the best spec ...
triple melee dps spec class with no raid buff/utility it needs to be top dps all the time to be brought
dark vigil
classes that are entirely dependent on tuning should be doing more dmg than the ones who bring utility to make up for it..
but i mean
blizzard
light plume
its absolutely fucking bonkers that dk's get to be top dps and bring AMZ along with the best execute in the game
drowsy hollow
Enh and feral are in line first frankly.
dark vigil
yeah
light plume
rogues get fuck all
hollow escarp
but hey, I can clear traps on Artificier 
stray ivy
team stealth
light plume
feral can go boomkin or tank or healer, enhance has raid utility a ranged spec and resto
dark vigil
S tier
stray ivy
aff was nerfed, but they undid th enerf due to death threats
light plume
rogue doesnt bring anything but pure dps, so we should be the best at it
but we aint
drowsy hollow
Rogues still have their mobility, still bring numbing poison, still have pretty good defensives compared to other melees
stark heart
hot take - new flag is KB in disguise
dark vigil
enhance will be really good when havoc and arms are good for st
that stuff isnt really important anymore, most classes have good dfensives now
hollow escarp
Rogues still have their mobility, still bring numbing poison, still have pretty ...
you don't need defensives when you can brink DKs with AMZ
dark vigil
light plume
numbing does barely anything in raid, we dont have a personal for something that cant be dodged/magical if we dont talent into it
drowsy hollow
I'm sorry you guys have to suffer a bit in raids for your m+ utility. 😄
stray ivy
assassin m+?
stray ivy
i think roge is for pvp
drowsy hollow
And after BfA, I'm not upset at that. Rogues had 2 straight expansions of being the best melee for m+
dark vigil
even with 5 target cap
tidal gorge
That was more for shroud than anything else tbh
dark vigil
they're still nuts
hollow escarp
I did a DoS today as assa and it was so annoying to not be able to gouge the spinny dudes in hakkar trash
but the damage is pretty nice
light plume
you cant say just because we were good in the past means we should be bad now, makes no sense, our one thing is pure damage and we dont have it anymore
M+ barely uses skips so shroud aint worth anything
gloomy steppe
Excited for Warlock to finally get gutted since they've never been bad in raid
light plume
^^^^^^
gloomy steppe
thatsthejoke.jpg
drowsy hollow
Blizzard, even if they deny it, try to alternate what classes or specs have their time in the sun.
light plume
warlock top dam and REQUIRED for raid even if they didnt have dam
gloomy steppe
Blizzard does not do punitive balancing
drowsy hollow
Affliction wasn't a thing for all of BfA for example
gloomy steppe
If you were good in the past, it does not mean you are bad now
tribal marlin
Keep kalm guys. Maybe they are removing Slice rank2 on purpose. Assa future is already bright.
dark vigil
there were some raid fights where affli was brought in wfirst
light plume
ah thats why spriest was ass for like a decade and a half
echo cargo
thinking blizzard rotates whats good
muted maple
then why hasnt arcane had its day since like, wrath lol
dark vigil
i think the slice and dice tooltip is a bug
tidal gorge
Can we have rogue convoke? Casts poisoned knife 20x on random targets. Whoops, kicked from the group
hollow escarp
manic harness
It seems to be happening, friends
drowsy hollow
they rotate the two hunter ranged specs it seems haha
light plume
oml dont get me started on convoke
hollow escarp
convoke is fine
stray ivy
how much dps gain is cut to chase
echo cargo
warlock + mage have literally been good forever
light plume
survival hot booty since it was introduced
drowsy hollow
All the ferals are going to go Necrolord soon haha
balmy condor
how much dps gain is cut to chase
somewhere between 0 and a million
stray ivy
just dps math guy remove snd casts and put envenom
tidal gorge
^ somewhere between -a million and a million
light plume
guys its fine, they're gonna give assa another 3% aura buff for the SnD change
dark vigil
hard to say but slice and dice already has a long duration so what, extra 2 envenoms a minute or so?
balmy condor
just dps math guy remove snd casts and put envenom
sure, yeah, it's that easy
stray ivy
a little math
balmy condor
then go do it
gloomy steppe
I heard if you keep tagging Whispyr in messages his math improves
stray ivy
can't my hand hurts today
strange python
@balmy condor
balmy condor
unfortunate
tribal marlin
I mean we talked a lot about and for a reason. Execute is the most important niche in this game and we do have it.
If at some point we are able to get 2 leggo, with Duskwalker bringing vendetta to <1mn CD, PI, priest NF guardian .... I don't think you guys realise how broken it is to be an Assa rogue with 40sec of vendetta over 40sec of blood lust in execute range
balmy condor
guess we'll never know
dark vigil
i'd imagine duskwalker will be the go to for sludge now
muted maple
I mean we talked a lot about and for a reason. Execute is the most important nic...
huh
dark vigil
vendetta on every pillar is crazy
gloomy steppe
I mean we talked a lot about and for a reason. Execute is the most important nic...
this sounds suspiciously like scaling
dark vigil
but getting a 235 legendary for sludge alone is kinda cring
echo cargo
one thing Sin has is great leggo choices in terms of when we can use 2 - 3+
muted maple
lmfao other classes, namely the other S tier ones will also benefit from 2 legendaries
not just rogues
hollow escarp
I always hated when Vendetta is not on same CD with Vanish 
although I love CDR mechanics
hollow escarp
yeah, but we will have a different raid by then
dark vigil
9.0.5
muted maple
so will they
dark vigil
but yea
wheat parrot
When did they change snd?
hollow escarp
didn't yet
tribal marlin
this sounds suspiciously like scaling
well won't speak the forbidden word, but ye and there is the 2 to 3 spread target cleave
light plume
Limit did say they were considering assa for next tier for the execute if they get buffed again
wheat parrot
Is it on ptr?
dark vigil
yes
tribal marlin
like Duskwalker is probably going Crazy when it comes to Priority target damage if you start having multiple target avaible to funnel more energy
wheat parrot
Ty ^^
stark heart
PTR people - is there lego vendor or some easy way to get lego effects?
tidal gorge
I've always loved cleaving onto a prio target with infinite energy if there are 2-3 targets
hollow escarp
PTR is not tournament realm
tidal gorge
I hope that becomes a thing again
primal gazelle
which one is the execute legendary for assa?
dark vigil
zoldyck
primal gazelle
is that being buffed?
tribal marlin
like we can maybe spike at 40 nrj spend per second in 3 target cleave prio target
dark vigil
sin funnel is wonky but yeah its not bad
tribal marlin
so that each second that pass spiking at 40nrj/s is 2.3sec less on vendetta, which is like 52sec vendetta
with Fae guardian we have like 22sec CD vendetta
dark vigil
so about a minute
fleet anchor
I mean there's no reason to buff Zoldyck, it's already really strong
brazen halo
Sorry if its been discussed to death, but what do ye think about the new patch thing "Cut to the Chase"?
dark vigil
its nice QoL
fleet anchor
It's kinda boring and stupid, but who knows what their thought process was 🙂
gloomy steppe
We're not even sure if it gives DPS yet tbf
tribal marlin
But tbh I'm kinda unsure they will bring Dual-Leggo on the table for 9.1
gloomy steppe
Given that we also lost the 10% energy regen
tribal marlin
feels wierd they are buffing all these leggo
gloomy steppe
What
obtuse anvil
is definitely a tooltip thing
nope
fleet anchor
It's definitely not a tooltip thing.
brazen halo
Hmm at least it means SnD doesnt need to be manually refreshed.
light plume
I doubt double leggo gets added in 9.1
dark vigil
it literally says the 10% energy regen is available to all 3 specs now
balmy condor
I grabbed a drink, came back, and this channel is still a mess
gloomy steppe
What
balmy condor
it literally says the 10% energy regen is available to all 3 specs now
do you trust blizzard or wowhead more
tribal marlin
I grabbed a drink, came back, and this channel is still a mess
"still a mess" or "a mess again"
tidal gorge
Maybe you should pin that it's a datamining error so that we can spam !pins instead of correcting the wowhead misinformation
obtuse anvil
every time fuu posts a screenshot of catching a new build pushed to ptr
balmy condor
it's literally in #tc-updates
obtuse anvil
his heart rate increases 10x
warm parcel
Its not even a datamining error
Like there is no longer rank2 snd in that said spell category
That has the spells specs use
Aka there literally isnt a spell called snd rank 2 anymore
tribal marlin
Maybe they think (they might have right) that this is not needed anymore
fleet anchor
🚨 🚨 🚨 Despite the initial WoWHead datamining, it appears SnD Rank 2 on PTR is completely removed, not "available for all specs." It's possible this will change, but this is the case currently on PTR. 🚨 🚨 🚨
warm parcel
To me its an intentional change by devs
tribal marlin
To me its an intentional change by devs
I believe that too
warm parcel
But how they got to this iteration we have now noone knows
tribal marlin
maybe they have dual leggo in mind 
fleet anchor
Yes I think it is clearly intentional. I also think they are a little crazy. But both of those can be true at the same time. lol
tribal marlin
And they know we will do crazy shit with dual leggo
main solar
I'd prefer if they buffed Assassination's energy regen through buffing venomous wounds back to legion levels than through SnD
fleet anchor
Buffing VW makes AoE dumb though
dark vigil
just a weird thing
karmic cedar
Maybe it'll be replaced with Shrouded Suffocation as the new level 56 perk
tribal marlin
Yes tho I'm talking about Dual Leggo, but might be some Tier Set
ember relic
how much more damage is outlaw 😦
tribal marlin
how much energy regen is that per min
I think it was only 10% on base regen which is 10+haste per sec so around 1.2nrj/s
but with vw we are idk 20-22/s maybe
dark vigil
over a whole fight thats kind of nice
dont think it makes up for the cut to the chase
dont know
def a QoL thing
fleet anchor
I don't think it's QoL tbh. May as well just delete it.
dark vigil
no i mean the QoL of having cut to the chase
tribal marlin
but cttc is like "making a appearance" in data mining
but there is no cttc on the PTR
rn
tribal marlin
there is only rank2 SnD missing that's all
fleet anchor
Regen
dark vigil
so how much regen over a minute from snd rank 2
faint harness
but there is no cttc on the PTR
it is on ptr
just hit a dummy and you can see snd refreshing
warm parcel
So then its way less energy lost than what I presumed
fleet anchor
Roughly 100 per minute you can estimate, but depends on haste
Lowers the value of haste slightly too
strange python
!opener
snow hamlet
Sorry but what is SBS?
main solar
Serrated Bone Spike, the Necrolord ability?
fleet anchor
oh ok then they forgot to put the spell in spellbook
A lot of the things set up as rank passives don't show up in the spellbook (after you get them)
Since they embed in the tooltips
So they probably just set the flag wrong
snow hamlet
Serrated Bone Spike, the Necrolord ability?
Tks but it has changed in PTR?
balmy condor
it's affected by mastery
tribal marlin
well any one tested if the dot is also affected by mastery now ?
or still not ?
I'm farming Anima on PTR to get Venthyr renown 3 so I can put the conduit ....
damn
dark vigil
losing roughly 100 energy a minute is more impactful than casting slice and slice a bit less
dark vigil
its a nerf it seems
strange python
At least they know the spec needs love
dark vigil
we'll see
main solar
I mean, wasnt the change to energy regen from the 20% extra attack speed in the beta also a dps loss? It was just a change to feedback on the slow APM of the spec. Would be interested in seeing how they address that now if they actually intended to remove that part.
pulsar sluice
venth looks cool now yea
balmy condor
do we have sims yet boys?
no
tribal marlin
We wont have sims before the patch start profiling
like having at least a release candidate
it's pointless working before that when you'll have basically potentially to redo all the work
versed mica
Wait, is snd 10% energy regen going to all specs? Or am I misunderstanding patch notes?
snow hamlet
it's affected by mastery
Cool
strange python
it's pointless working before that when you'll have basically potentially to red...
got it. thank you<#
3
supple pelican
sin buff, pog!
tribal marlin
for now only the direct part of SBS is affected by mastery tho
kinda buggy
Also Flag is bugged rn
it deals the damage as if you were spending 1cp per finisher rather than 5
faint harness
yea the dmg seemed very underwhelming
tribal marlin
BEside it, the damage seems kinda potent
assuming you can easily lash 20 time in assa I believe you can do even more as subt
tribal marlin
ye in vendetta
faint harness
the conduit increases stacks instantly right
tribal marlin
I'm sad I can't deposit anima in my sanctum so I can't test with the conduit 😦
stark heart
flag 1.5 min CD + 45 seconds Xsang CD sync really well, and the latter snaps haste iirc
echo cargo
its not coming back bro
sleek otter
buff it and maybe
hollow escarp
and now it's official 
obtuse anvil
wounds to 8 energy I guess
dreamy ginkgo
how bad is the regen loss with ven wounds buff
echo cargo
venemous wounds 8 energy pog
sleek otter
wait really?
dreamy ginkgo
yeah
hollow escarp
balmy condor
well
sleek otter
OK
tribal marlin
so it completly compensate I guess
empty crescent
just feels so weird
sleek otter
Useful in pvp 2
hollow escarp
don't question Blizzard
sleek otter
but does it really compensate?
tribal marlin
not completly but the loss is marginal (~0.3energy/s)
dreamy ginkgo
will the venomous wounds buff make up for the lost SND regen
lost sentinel
I think I might need to give sin a real shot heh
sleek otter
its a minimal loss Terry
not completly but the loss is marginal (~0.3energy/s)
according to Miki
who is already pog
dreamy ginkgo
i can fuck with these changes then
tribal marlin
having that haste buff ramping up quicky
balmy condor
it's actually going to be a net gain on energy
dreamy ginkgo
cut to the chase is awesome, new flag will be great for sin probably
sleek otter
Flagellation (Venthyr) no longer costs Energy (was 20 Energy), duration reduced to 12 seconds (was 20 seconds), Haste is now granted immediately, and no longer has a second activation. Flagellation’s initial damage increased by 270%, additional damage from spending combo points increased by 160%, and deals damage 1 time upon use (was 3).
balmy condor
not a marginal loss
sleek otter
will this make it best now?
dreamy ginkgo
oh i didnt notice it costs no energ ytnow
balmy condor
will this make it best now?
who knows
tribal marlin
why a net gain
echo cargo
wound buff is sick for 2-3 target tho
sleek otter
its already slightly behind Niya
echo cargo
big energy gains
drowsy hollow
So it's one lash per finisher no matter how many combo points spent or am I reading the blue post wrong
tribal marlin
I guess you win 1.33/sec with VW and loos 1.3/s from SnD old passif
if my maths are correct
at 30% haste
hollow escarp
wound buff is sick for 2-3 target tho
did we lack energy in aoe?
echo cargo
periodic 2 target cleave is still nice to have more energy, no?
some thing like mythic darkvein
sleek otter
Im not sure how I feel about the new flag in pvp
I wanna do good in both pvp and pve but its gonna suck if Niya is bis for pvp and then pve flag is bis
stoic needle
This is gonna be big for aoe
balmy condor
I guess you win 1.33/sec with VW and loos 1.3/s from SnD old passif
is it 1.3?
I thought it was less
if it's 1.3 then it's marginal, ye
stoic needle
Nadjia will never beat Niya until they rework thrill seeker tbh
sleek otter
isnt it right under Niya in sims?
echo cargo
what's wrong with thrill seeker?
drowsy hollow
you can't control it
stoic needle
You can't control it and it procs during intermissions
pulsar sluice
I mean general draven doesn't look so bad for sin, you don't really reset much as sin in pvp
stoic needle
If that happens its quite a bit worse than Niya
dark hollow
wait, what wound buff?
stoic needle
General draven is fucking godawful wydm
inner granite
With the changes coming in what might be the best for sin? Necro / Venthyr?
stoic needle
It's a 3% mainstat buff that you never have because there's so much aoe in every encounter
hollow escarp
wait, what wound buff?
pulsar sluice
you didn't read at all what I said did you
tribal marlin
I did quick maths might have wrong : (16xHaste)/2 - (14xHaste)/2 is the gain per target 2-doted
no ? at 30% haste it would do 1.3nrj/sec win per target
hollow escarp
when you said wound I got reminded of Magni
dark hollow
oh, wow. i glossed over that line entirely.
sleek otter
Plus no using combos on just consistent s and d uptime
def huge aoe gains Im thinking
faint harness
"huge"
stoic needle
Yeah idk about huge
sleek otter
well def better than what it is now
sleek otter
My bad
empty crescent
why dont we open with ambush? why open with mutliate?
strange python
A change
stoic needle
Ambush is garbage
stoic needle
Mutilate gives more cp
tribal marlin
haha actually they made so that it's straight equal in ST. You win 2 energy per (2sec x spell haste), so basically 1xHaste/s.
You loose 10% of your base regen which is exactly 10xHaste
?
mortal scaffold
um this looks good as fuck?
balmy condor
haha actually they made so that it's straight equal in ST. You win 2 energy per ...
yeh
balmy condor
um this looks good as fuck?
if you don't like pressing the button, sure, if you like doing more damage, not really that big
faint harness
ya dood poggies, less snd uses pog
stoic needle
i dont think venthyr will be better than night fae after this rework tbh
halcyon grail
wait cut to the chase is back?
dark vigil
yes
mortal scaffold
its baseline right?
dark vigil
yes
mortal scaffold
im reading that correctly?
hollow escarp
more GCDs available for Feint and Crimson Vial 
mortal scaffold
ballin'
dark vigil
and
hollow escarp
check the blue post
buoyant mauve
I've been wanting this for so long
hollow escarp
it comes at a cost
dark vigil
snd rank 2 removed
inner granite
@balmy condor what’s this SBS change you have in pins? I don’t see anything
dark vigil
sbs will be affected by mastery
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> what’s this SBS change you have in pins? I don’t see anyth...
affected by mastery
dark vigil
still weak tho
hollow escarp
it's + damage though 
tribal marlin
i dont think venthyr will be better than night fae after this rework tbh
I don't know dude, the haste buff is kinda giga
dark vigil
but its not worth switching for
mortal scaffold
wait does snd no increase energy regen anymore?
dark vigil
yes, but venmous wounds is now 8 instead of 7 per bleed
hollow escarp
also considering how good the necro bubble is next patch
dark vigil
and slice and dice less maintenance
hollow escarp
so makes the spec more braindead 
mortal scaffold
is that... a good trade off?
stoic needle
I don't know dude, the haste buff is kinda giga
yeah but the venthyr soulbinds still suck
tribal marlin
Theotar is fine
hollow escarp
did they fix the versa buff on theotar?
stoic needle
no theotar is not fine
hollow escarp
I've heard it gives versa buff to the enire raid, not just party
sleek otter
I really like night fae form toooooo 😦
stoic needle
there is nothing fine about having to move out of soothing shade after it procs
hollow escarp
I would like to optimally play all covenants this expansion
tribal marlin
I think a 25% haste buff that last 24sec (ramping up from 5% to 25% for the first half) is GIGA
especially if (imagine) we play Duskwalker as 2nd legendary and sync it with vendetta every time
dark vigil
venthyr should be good, nice burst with the conduit too
stoic needle
i dont think that's enough to beat sepsis + korayn or niya
tribal marlin
I guess sims will tell us
mortal scaffold
is venthyr good now? does it compete with the other ones?
sleek otter
Im thinking it will deff sim more
sleek otter
based off of current sims
dark vigil
so what does that tell you?
stoic needle
the soulbinds are still clunky
tribal marlin
ye that kinda sucks
sleek otter
Yea they are but 25 percent haste tho
tribal marlin
but maybe they will buf Draven
stoic needle
i mean you get 25% haste but sometimes you also dont have a soulbind
drowsy hollow
I'm glad flagellation slaps a bit haha
stoic needle
thats not really a good tradeoff
sleek otter
thats like having a mini lust on a 1.5 min cdf
drowsy hollow
Buff duelist, make it 5% damage to match burrs
stoic needle
whereas night fae and all the other covs have consistently working soulbinds and covenant abilties
stoic needle
they need to rework thrill seeker and soothing shade
drowsy hollow
the soothing shade umbrella is fairly large and procs often enough
tribal marlin
litterally not syncing but I think it's not that bad (and somehow sync with TB)
stoic needle
yes but as soon as you have to move out of it it's worse than every other soulbind
it doesnt matter how big it is and how often it procs
drowsy hollow
Dreamweaver field says hi
stoic needle
dreamweaver is better because it procs when you use your cov ability
it's controllable
drowsy hollow
Mikanikos says hi too. 😄
stoic needle
trust me man, i played venthyr for several months
nadjia and theotar are pretty clunky
im not just talking out of my ass i'm speaking from experience
drowsy hollow
I've played them too, perhaps not on rogue, but on enh and prot warrior. I never felt that bad about theotar on warrior before unlocking draven
fiery mauve
Wait I thought majority of people though thrill seeker was pog
dark vigil
nadija is fine
fiery mauve
It’s like a haste proc trinket
fiery mauve
Except you know when it’s happening
dark vigil
there's never a "when you don't need it"
it just helps
same with the mastery
proc
from niya
fiery mauve
Yeah idk thrill seeker is pog
hollow escarp
that's consistent though
echo cargo
@tribal marlin how's it sync w/ vanish if you're using subter
tribal marlin
<@!311139294741790721> how's it sync w/ vanish if you're using subter
it does not xD
stoic needle
there's never a "when you don't need it"
this is objectively false
thrill seeker consistently procs during shriekwing intermission, council intermission, hungering destroyer consume, and dozens of other mechanics where you cannot take advantage of the buff
hollow escarp
they could make thrill seeker like flaggelation, stacking haste in combat 
stoic needle
you can't control it, and you can't prevent it
hollow escarp
or maybe getting a big burst of haste while decaying over time
stoic needle
they actively removed the ability to control it
sleek otter
it does
honest needle
what leggo should i be crafting for ass raid ? also is there a guide to the opener ?
stoic needle
zoldyck
sleek otter
270%, additional damage from spending combo points increased by 160%,; I wonder how much dmg it will do ngl
drowsy hollow
that sounds like a raid design issue more than thrill seeker
hollow escarp
what's the timer for Shriekwing intermission?
lilac sparrow
How good is PTR hotfix for sin?
balmy condor
QoL more than anything
stoic needle
nah its definitely a thrillseeker issue
honest needle
also for raid do we have to run blind side ?
hollow escarp
looks worse than grand melee for outlaw 
balmy condor
also for raid do we have to run blind side ?
don't HAVE to, but It is suggested
honest needle
is it a bigt difference
stoic needle
it happens in M+ too
echo cargo
SIM IT
balmy condor
^
honest needle
i dont have ass setup yet
thats why im asking if its big before i take the time to switch
hollow escarp
no daggers? 
echo cargo
If you're super pepega and you don't want the extra button to hit
it's a substantial loss but not like, going to fuck you
if you're parsing good already you'll still parse good
honest needle
does anyone have a site to the new openers for shadowlands
honest lake
balmy condor
does anyone have a site to the new openers for shadowlands
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
hollow escarp
opener
honest needle
ty
echo cargo
if anyone is on PTR, does it show which bosses drop the conduits?
tribal marlin
270%, additional damage from spending combo points increased by 160%,; I wonder ...
Decent dam but nothing spectacular like WS or Convoke, with current number you can expect some ~10k damage from it, probably more because you will most likely want to take the conduit as well (not sure tho).
The haste buff seems to be very nice tho.
hollow escarp
if anyone is on PTR, does it show which bosses drop the conduits?
gonna take a look now
tribal marlin
yed
echo cargo
Appreciated
tribal marlin
teal kettle
the slice and dice duration increase is sooo huge
hollow escarp
I guess the others are in M+
tribal marlin
luckyli I've got wps as my 1st 226 from venari xD
echo cargo
Well, rip
tribal marlin
there are missing one
hollow escarp
I got wps and the lethal poisons one really fast at 213
tribal marlin
for DK for example, there is none
hollow escarp
sleek otter
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
sleek otter
Im testing this out on ptr
hollow escarp
yes
echo cargo
lmao
hollow escarp
to the first question
little moth
rip?
shy dust
Venomous wounds was buffed to compensate
sleek otter
@hollow escarp No energy regen is actually lost
echo cargo
Venemous Wounds was buffed so it's a net buff
little moth
ah
sleek otter
its actually the same energy regen
hollow escarp
that's the result of other buffs
tribal marlin
The change is compeltly neutral in ST. It's a net gain in dot spread situation (cleave / aoe)
steel bane
Is the Vendetta legendary buff relevant enough to make it worthwhile ?
echo cargo
You'll know... tomorrow
faint harness
the problem with all these legendary buffs
is that even if they reach zoldyck dps
zoldyck is execute, which is more valuable in a lot of situations
steel bane
it is boring though 😛
hollow escarp
I would disagree
faint harness
well why bring an average st spec if it has 0 niche
execute is a niche
can live on that
hollow escarp
any Skulker gamers here? is it worth pre popping it before pull?
just got it today and don't really sure if I wanna play double on-use 
faint harness
i use it prepull on some fights
echo cargo
I used it prepull sometimes before the supposed hotfix to it not going off
cause I noticed on some bosses if I used it next to the boss I'd just stand there like a potato
faint harness
you also gain a few seconds of cd
hollow escarp
that's what I'm looking to save
hollow escarp
yeah
faint harness
but there is no downside
hollow robin
In the pins it says something about a change to SBS in the ptr last week, but I cant find what changed. Anyone know?
tribal marlin
"bugfix"
faint harness
you think it was a feature?
faint harness
poison
hollow escarp
was thinking about the irl version 👀
honest needle
how is Nightfae for assasin ?
hollow escarp
infection
honest needle
cause im nF
hollow escarp
so poison, yeah
faint harness
but its about blood too
hollow escarp
how is Nightfae for assasin ?
pretty good
stoic needle
bis
hollow escarp
blood poisoning, now that's assassination theme
tribal marlin
isnt it blood poisoning
it's an infection that is spreading throught your blood
but the origin can be various
stoic needle
is sin ahead of outlaw now for ST
probably not
hollow escarp
rogue spells are pretty graphic and gross 
faint harness
sepsis kills you faster than our spell tho
tribal marlin
warriors are fun too xD
hollow escarp
haha
honest needle
I like sin better because its easier to play
but i dont think im a fan of blindside talent
cause of how my bars r setup
hollow escarp
tribal marlin
but If they intentionnaly buffed SBS this way it's wierd. Like it will remain shit for other 2 spec
make no sense
honest needle
i like keeping spells in same spots with all raid specs but with sin now have snd its on different spotrs on my other specs so it changes everything
tribal marlin
and only the initial damage is buffed by mastery currently, not the dot
hollow escarp
I used to have toxic blade and exsanguinate on the same keybind. Now Shiv took that place but if exsang will become powerful, I will need to rethink my keybinds
faint harness
cus of the conduit
tribal marlin
I mean
tribal marlin
it's like idk xD
sleek otter
Yea but it wouldnt be broken if it could crit thats the thing
tribal marlin
like IDK you go to to dry cleaners, and they are washing your clothes
but you need to pay more if you want theim to use detergent
otherwise they only use water
see what I mean ?
sleek otter
XDDDDDDDD
tribal marlin
xD
faint harness
they should make it fracture
tribal marlin
I mean SBS couldn't perfectly have been criting like any other damage in the game and the conduit do something else
faint harness
and sepsis cleave
tribal marlin
So ye SBS scaling with mastery is maybe just to account for it not scaling off crit
but again, it only work for assa so it's wierd design
AND anyway we're debating for nothing because the dot doesn't scale with mastery xD, only the direct damage (which can crit actually)
sleek otter
sbs doesnt even let doomblade more dmg :(\
prisma monolithBOT
honest needle
!guides
tribal marlin
at least sepsis do more damage into Shiv
fleet whale
even the shiv thing for sepsis isn't that special
when you consider sub buffs it even more with symbols and dance
hollow escarp
it looks like the SnD buff has a cap at 46 sec
tribal marlin
vendetta is 30% more if you sync
sleek otter
Yea but still, apply it and forget it kinda thing
hollow escarp
been attacking a training dummy for minutes and it doesn't go more than 46 sec
even after a 5 cp finisher at 40 sec
tribal marlin
ye it's like the old fashion way
fleet whale
wait guys did you miss this
tribal marlin
just open, use SnD once and forget about it
fleet whale
Venomous wounds gives 8 energy now
instead of 7
that may make up for the loss of SND energy regen
tribal marlin
yes
hollow escarp
well, wowhead didn't even pick that up
balmy condor
it just balances the other out
tribal marlin
We ended to the conclusion with very hard maths that it's equal in ST and net win in multi-target
hollow escarp
probably because on PTR it's still 7 points
faint harness
when you consider sub buffs it even more with symbols and dance
each tick also gets shadowbladed
tribal marlin
which even give more value to our "sort of" funneling
SB sepsis is the most powerful one probably ye
tribal marlin
was not on the official note but they datamined a change on the vanish leggo
faint harness
sub isnt getting anything in this patch
some buffs to bad legendaries like everyone else
tribal marlin
oh man I want that double leggo to be a thing
hollow escarp
I had triple leggo
tribal marlin
Zoldyc + 1mn vendetta
might be insanely valuable
pb not the best combo in sims but
in real situation might be so good
faint harness
i would be shocked to see 2 legendaries equippable
static glacier
surely
hollow escarp
even now hero damage shows dashing first damage
even doomblade is before zoldyck
on single target
static glacier
main thing is
pulsar sluice
now we just need melee version of malefic rupture and good to go
static glacier
zoldyck and doomblade don't have any particular benefit from being coupled with duskwalker's
hollow escarp
now we just need melee version of malefic rupture and good to go
Exsang
faint harness
exsanguinate+
static glacier
dashing does
pulsar sluice
next
faint harness
zoldyck is execute tho
hollow escarp
I liked exsang