We changing Covs yet?
#assassination
karmic tusk
shut garnet
but how's removing 1 button gonna destroy anything
balmy condor
We changing Covs yet?
no
mellow pier
snd is needed either as cut to the chase or a passive ability like in legion
drifting cloud
stop asking about venthyr
mellow pier
it doesnt matter how its there
balmy condor
but how's removing 1 button gonna destroy anything
it doesn't destroy anything, it's just a silly change imo
rapid flame
how theese assa changes (spells, covenant abilities, legendaries) changes looking at the ptr changes? Is it worth to start gearing my rogue alt? :b
balmy condor
the gameplay is the same, just with less of what makes the spec the spec
shut garnet
how slow is sin this tier comparative to bfa tiers?
mellow pier
bro
shut garnet
like do u have to do the whole pooling pre toxic blade rn
dark vigil
no
shut garnet
to fit envenoms in
dark vigil
theres not much pooling for sin compared to before
shut garnet
ic
pulsar sluice
venthyr still shit
balmy condor
like do u have to do the whole pooling pre toxic blade rn
you can, it's a gain, it's not giga though. Speed is equal to EP
shy dust
how slow is sin this tier comparative to bfa tiers?
Relatively the same speed to 8.2
mellow pier
assassin should be about envenom uptime and dot maintenance
shut garnet
fair fair
oblique copper
hmmm I guess we'll... buff it x15
pulsar sluice
i welcome cut to the chase tbh, doesn't feel good pressing snd as assass
dark vigil
but not better than zoldyck i bet
shut garnet
cmon guys can u bring some ppl that hate cut to the chase in here too
to balance it out
balmy condor
I'm not sure about that
spice spire
Whispyr malding while everyone celebrating
shut garnet
so whispyr doesnt feel lonely 
pulsar sluice
who hates cut to the chase? shame
polar cape
Bet the bloodfang is a typo
balmy condor
who hates cut to the chase? shame
I do
oblique copper
cut to the chase is boring its not like you press snd all that often
mental wing
More envenom = more dmg
stone pilot
Let’s shit on cut to the chase so whispyr can be happy
oblique copper
sin needs like a kill everything button
mellow pier
@balmy condor genuine question, when did u start playing rogue?
oblique copper
not this
stoic needle
i cant wait to go back to venthyr 
fleet whale
i mean i would rather just snd be pruned
spice spire
More envenom = more dmg
Less maintenance = more of a Netflix class
pulsar sluice
why would assass not have a way to refresh snd for free when the other two do
fleet whale
but i'll take cut to the chase
mellow pier
ok so u never played assassin pre legion
shy dust
SnD always felt clunky within assassination
balmy condor
ok so u never played assassin pre legion
????????
shut garnet
????
shy dust
So blizzard addressed that
sudden brook
is this the new prepatch sub channel?
mellow pier
u didnt play sin in wod
balmy condor
wod apparently is after legion
obtuse anvil
Every time rogue gets patch notes, say a little prayer for Whispyr
balmy condor
turns out
stoic needle
is this the new prepatch sub channel?
its always like this after a sin buff
fleet whale
also, i like the new flag
spice spire
I’m fine with cut to the chase. But it’s a pretty lazy change IMO
stark heart
have been preaching about Cut to the Chase for weeks if not more in DMs with @warm parcel
dark vigil
@balmy condor bless you
shut garnet
is this the new prepatch sub channel?
hold the stocks this one isnt crashing
shy dust
is this the new prepatch sub channel?
It’s just people arguing about cut to the chase
stark heart
mellow pier
if u played sin in wod ROFL
dark vigil
havoc st is gonna be nuts
balmy condor
if u played sin in wod ROFL
yeah what about it
grizzled jay
I don't dislike the change but feels like Sin needs more than this.
mental wing
Less maintenance = more of a Netflix class
I like Netflix tho
stoic needle
imagine liking a spec 
mellow pier
@grizzled jay it need alacity baseline for all specs
spice spire
Fair
mellow pier
so we can choose actual talents
stoic needle
shame they onlybuffed the dot on doomblade and not the % damage
fleet whale
wait does this mean we no longer get the extra energy regen from snd though
balmy condor
fuck man, oh shit dude, whispyr didn't play the meta spec, oh god oh fuck
spice spire
I also meant spec xd
mellow pier
meta spec?
sudden brook
now this is content
mellow pier
its like playing arcane over frost or fire
shut garnet
whispyr why u always pick fights with randoms man
mellow pier
in wod
pulsar sluice
@dark vigil how
mellow pier
randoms, ive been in here since before him
stone pilot
Idk I like him more for playin sin in wod over sub
rustic thunder
dark vigil
the burning wound change
shut garnet
is not worth king
fleet whale
regarding cut to the chase though... it existed for sin from Wotlk through mop, and in wod we got passive SND
drifting cloud
@balmy condor https://youtu.be/Vx6ipbVOWvY?t=474 same tier as this scrub 
balmy condor
cause for some reason people like assuming things about me
fleet whale
SL has been the only time since BC that sin has had to worry about snd maintenance
balmy condor
even though I don't fucking hide shit
shut garnet
yes he's played it before
balmy condor
I did say that
ashen anchor
PoV: You are in the Sin channel when patch notes come out
mellow pier
its literally the wrong statement
drifting cloud
also please dont respond to nurux whispyr its not worth it
balmy condor
also please dont respond to nurux whispyr its not worth it
I'm starting to see that
mellow pier
it feels MORE like assassin
sudden brook
yeah but i dont like it so checkmate
stoic needle
who even is nurux
fleet whale
Sin wasn't as garbage as people think it was in wod but that Method vid is a little misleading, for like 98% of mythic guilds, sub was the better spec
fast nacelle
cool changes
shut garnet
lmfao
sudden brook
i was told there was chaos happening in here
balmy condor
"I get that you don't like the change, and that's your opinion, but also your opinion is wrong"
fucking
ashen anchor
Slow day in Outlaw channel
drifting cloud
his mental is booming
drifting cloud
from sire
sudden brook
i used to main sin back in the day
mellow pier
LMFAO
fleet whale
why is no one talking about flag though
faint harness
i used to main sin back in the day
back in the day 
fleet whale
like it actually got a good change
spice spire
Because flag is a meme
faint harness
didnt you start in like Legion
stoic needle
it's not a meme anymore
balmy condor
in what context have I said that rae
faint harness
shy dust
You’ve told me my opinion is wrong and there would be no complaints about sin
If it’s damage was meta
spice spire
Even with a great change, it’s still pretty rough
balmy condor
I said there would be less
drifting cloud
fg has never played sin, dont believe his lies
shy dust
And seemingly ignored me saying it’s a clunky spell
stoic needle
the soulbinds are still kind of a meme but flag's decent now
balmy condor
why are we back on that
faint harness
any assumptions on how big of a dps increase not having to SND is
balmy condor
people will not like things
mellow pier
its not an opinion that an ability that was there for 7 years isnt how sin is supposed to play
balmy condor
that's completely normal
cold spoke
at least 5 envenoms
balmy condor
I didn't tell you that you're wrong for not liking something man
pulsar sluice
Rogue is rogue no one truly cares what you main tbh
balmy condor
and if I did, then I didn't mean it
fleet whale
so with this change, i wonder if it's worth to cast SND right after your first garrote
balmy condor
cause that's fucked
fleet whale
i want the sims now
cold spoke
idk man i just made up that number
shut garnet
HAHA
faint harness
300k results, demon
mental wing
In m+ its a nice change
limber lion
Casually flexing with the 300k
stoic needle
dont all the specs get 10% energy regen baseline tho
vocal edge
Everyone gets it now
stark heart
so since it says "extend" you'd still have to use SnD once I presume but then just Envenom up to pandemic cap
marble hemlock
who hates cut to the chase? shame
I do. It's boring
balmy condor
we don't know for sure, but it seems from the mining that everyone gets 10%
marble hemlock
Why bring back snd when you just automate it for every spec
cold spoke
@stark heart 
cobalt gyro
marble hemlock
That's why they removed it in the first place
cobalt gyro
reads like it's for all specs, yes
low girder
I do. It's boring
same
ashen anchor
Sub technically doesn't have it automated if you take Weaponmaster
obtuse anvil
life is a pendulum
chilly vault
why is no one talking about flag though
I'm happy about the change, old flag was way too clunky. Maybe it will be worth pressing in pvp, that'd be great.
mental wing
Cause they Cant Balance rogues right
stark heart
Why bring back snd when you just automate it for every spec
because person who brought it back didn't think much and now they have to bandaid SnD being back until next beta they can get rid of it again
fleet whale
i mean if anything, SND should just be axed completely from sin
unreal parcel
flag buff to damage too
fleet whale
sin worked fine without SND in wod, legion, and bfa
mellow pier
@marble hemlock assassin from wotlk to sl never had to refresh snd
stark heart
I don't find that funny, only 
shut garnet
to be fair tho it felt a bit weird that the other 2 specs had a way to get a bit of SnD without having to press the button and assa was missin out on that
tho idk if the solution is
"make it so sin never has to press snd again"
kek
mellow pier
it should have never been brought back to assassin
cobalt gyro
well you just remove it
balmy condor
"make it so sin never has to press snd again"
yeh agree
marble hemlock
Just bake in the effect base line
stark heart
it just shows how much of a leftover class rogue became for class team
balmy condor
I guess this is the envenom buff we all wanted right?
mellow pier
they did
warm parcel
LMAOOOOOO
balmy condor
right?
mellow pier
in legion/bfa
marble hemlock
Imagine linking #1 assa parse 2 hrs ago
cold spoke
@warm parcel are you cut to the chaser too?
marble hemlock
@warm parcel
fleet whale
i mean if i had a choice between Kingsbane (another polarizing ability apparently) vs Cut to the chase
i'll take KB any day of the week lol
balmy condor
I would as well
stark heart
I'd take KB over TB any day
cold spoke
we dont mention kingsbane here its illegal
low girder
noted KB hater here, so would i
balmy condor
I also don't like kb that much
stark heart
also baking Shiv(Utility) and TB(Dam) is weird at best
balmy condor
but it's better than cttc
fleet whale
yeah, so we'll talk about "siresbane" instead
stark heart
but that ship is gone long ago
balmy condor
varo pls
shut garnet
not rly, i like the shiv change
fleet whale
but for real i may reroll to venthyr
fleet whale
well, i wish we coudl keep shiv for utility
we basically don't have it for that, while sub and outlaw do
marble hemlock
Only good thing about cttc is make aoe maintenance a bit easier
reef axle
curious if this will change our lego
balmy condor
Only good thing about cttc is make aoe maintenance a bit easier
yeah I can get behind that
fleet whale
doubtful zold is too good
balmy condor
slice in aoe is always a weird thing
pastel sandal
isnt venthyr cov ability about to change in an upcoming patch?
shut garnet
yessir
warm parcel
If nothing else
fleet whale
yeah, it got changed in this patch notes
balmy condor
isnt venthyr cov ability about to change in an upcoming patch?
the gcd seems to be removed
warm parcel
I gotta hand it to them for making flegy not as bad
balmy condor
no second cast
shut garnet
this is it chief
warm parcel
👍
marble hemlock
Duskwalker with fae simp seems solid
balmy condor
duskwalker is actually exciting tbh
lining that up with things again will be cool
down for that
summer horizon
I'm happy with that, I constantly would not have a gcd for the second part
pastel sandal
uuh thats actually cool
fleet whale
eh i really don't want CDR for sin
cold spoke
what is this @warm parcel warrior doing here, double agent
polar cape
Brg back 45sec vendetta <.<
pulsar sluice
ok then remove premed and snd refresh from celerity and rolls, why cant sin have it back too
stoic needle
hm so does this mean i craft duskwalkers next?
fleet whale
maybe, duskwalker's was really good in legion
shut garnet
i wonder at which stage of grief sub mains are at now
reef axle
depends if it outsims zold i guess
shut garnet
are they still holding their stonks
warm parcel
Dusks only ever good if you get 1 min cycle
fleet whale
sin's talents still needs work
warm parcel
And it sucks dick if you wont
ashen anchor
i wonder at which stage of grief sub mains are at now
I've hit acceptance 2 weeks ago
fleet whale
Cut to the chase is a bandaid really
reef axle
am I the only one hoping sin over takes sub next tier and we all are back to sin?
shut garnet
sin is already > sub
fleet whale
the question isn't sin over sub
tribal marlin
gosh I was suffering SLG
shut garnet
u dont have to wait for next tier for that
tribal marlin
while the patch hit
shut garnet
mellow pier
alacrity needs to be baseline or removed
fleet whale
the question will be sin over outlaw, and i'm not sure
mellow pier
and a buff if removed
stark heart
Dusks only ever good if you get 1 min cycle
depends on a fight imo, if you get some 1.5 mins burn fight you might wear dusks just to have ven be up for it every time
marble hemlock
Dusks only ever good if you get 1 min cycle
Might actually be doable
balmy condor
Are they really buffing slice energy regen from 20 to 50%
slice regen isn't changing
safe pendant
But you guys DOOMblade
shut garnet
i think ur misreading this bit
tribal marlin
slice energy regen was only for Assa right ?
balmy condor
yeah 30 energy on dusks make 1 min pretty reasonable
tribal marlin
I made the math recently it's pretty easy
dreamy ginkgo
ay so if im getting this right, all specs get the energy regen on slice and dice now? and assa gets cut to the chase?
stoic needle
no
marble hemlock
Doubt
warm parcel
fleet whale
exsang is dead
warm parcel
BLEEDY BOIS
marble hemlock
You'll need alac for the energy
cold spoke
@stark heart just use the vendetta cdr relic
marble hemlock
And cof
cold spoke
cof
marble hemlock
Well
mellow pier
screw cof
balmy condor
exsang won't come back without help
mellow pier
give me AoC
dreamy ginkgo
is new flagellation awesome or shit bros
balmy condor
even with 45 sec vend
stark heart
they gimped it somehow iirc
marble hemlock
Assa looking decent for m+ now
balmy condor
is new flagellation awesome or shit bros
it's the same thing it has been
dreamy ginkgo
gabunga
cold spoke
only the real chads remember aoc
tribal marlin
irrc you take our energy generation is like ~20-25/s
mellow pier
45s killing spree
stark heart
idk, my Assa is craving Haste so flag might not be so trash I guess
mellow pier
yes pls
marble hemlock
Flag on aoe is actually useful for assa
tribal marlin
reasonanly having 30energy spend per sec so you deffo aim for a 1mn vendetta
fleet whale
new flag is def an improvement
marble hemlock
Compared to other specs
stark heart
also it's not totally useless for AoE since poisons/bleeds tick faster
fleet whale
by QoL alone
stark heart
I guess
primal gazelle
wtb return of the FOK spec
stoic needle
mmm it's quite a bit better now
stark heart
I am not aoe expert tho
rancid spade
cut to the chase is back?? pog
stark heart
on Assa
marble hemlock
And with high crit you have decent cp gen
primal gazelle
wheres my FOK legendary
fleet whale
Sludgefist final pillar with hero, vend, zold, and new flag....
stark heart
shame Venthyr has only one soulbind as well 
stoic needle
for one, new flag will actually do damage, and the duration of the effect got increased to 24 seconds
fleet whale
that sounds like some good shit
cold spoke
i need a legendary that makes us use fok on st, some antorus vibes
distant cypress
Wait wtf I was away for like 20 min and they buffed sin?
marble hemlock
Play dashing for extra energy, much easier to maintain high envenom uptime with cttc too
stark heart
i need a legendary that makes us use fok on st, some antorus vibes
there is a talent for that
distant cypress
Fucking blizz man
warm parcel
patch is on ptr already
fleet whale
blizz just needs to make Draven better
primal gazelle
the issue is... are these buffs enough to bring an assa rogue over a dk/ww to raid
marble hemlock
Although it's hard to beat kleia crit for assa aoe atm
fleet whale
make Draven the M+ soulbind
stark heart
cut works too
does it give you snd or only extends like it says in tooltip?
balmy condor
it's an extend, yeh
primal gazelle
rogues needs to do an insane amount of at least ST dmg to be considered brought to raid
warm parcel
leme try
fleet whale
so is the play going to be
primal gazelle
since theres no utility buffs in these notes..
fleet whale
cast SND after first garrote?
cold spoke
nah you had to press snd with cttc
warm parcel
yea need to cast it once
stark heart
cool, ty
warm parcel
also regens gone
pulsar sluice
really hope we get raid utility before next tier
sick oyster
So is there a typo or is bloodbath going from 57% to 741% ?? Seems a bit much of an increase
shut garnet
whats cttc
warm parcel
just aspeed
fair storm
rerolling rogue
cold spoke
i have a good idea maybe just remove it next beta 
fleet whale
or would it be garrote, mut, into snd? Subterfuge opener
stark heart
are you level 60 on ptr?
eternal vortex
then whats the point in snd on assa again 
stark heart
warm parcel
ofc
sick oyster
@shut garnet cut to the chase
tribal marlin
Is Ventyr conduit will be broken xD?
kind kraken
wtf is that SnD Change 
warm parcel
limber lion
What do you mean
limber lion
limber lion
These are literally the 2 first things
warm parcel
no
fleet whale
i mean like garrote into snd
pliant sorrel
Rip assassination channel
warm parcel
cut isnt anywhere either
limber lion
It says that it should increase energy regen
warm parcel
it just works
pliant sorrel
Good luck boys
fleet whale
so like a 1 combo point snd at opener
stark heart
I mean in rogue section, not Assa section of the spellbook
distant cypress
I wonder how sub rogues feel atm
warm parcel
caps at 46s
stark heart
since it's universal now, apparently
stoic needle
what would the benefit of the 1cp snd be?
pliant sorrel
I wonder how sub rogues feel atm
Like shit
warm parcel
and no snd gives regen
fleet whale
with cut to the chase
stoic needle
just getting to the rupture quicker i guess?
fleet whale
you could get things rolling a little faster
cold spoke
pov: youre sub rogue and your spec is worse than assa again
stoic needle
hmm maybe
cold spoke
stoic needle
stark heart
imagine being Sub rogue
fleet whale
but sub is getting buffed in 9.0.5 though
stoic needle
Sub is kill
fleet whale
10% energy regen from snd
tribal marlin
I need to test but if Venthyr + conduit is lashing the target 5 time for 50% AP each lash, it's a big scale
stark heart
or any spec rogue
cold spoke
im a sub purist
warm parcel
No spec gains eregen from snd
stark heart
can we just go voice and you stream
warm parcel
And cut is assa only
fleet whale
so that's a nerf to sin then
sick oyster
Btw regarding cp generation, is there any reason the cov abilities don’t award the same amount
stark heart
I wonder if there is some API call that could verify energy regen
eternal vortex
@tribal marlin isnt the additional lashes deals like 10% so that means 10 of 50% so 15% total
distant cypress
Kek poor sub rogues
cold spoke
empty cradle
Btw regarding cp generation, is there any reason the cov abilities don’t award t...
probably some internal testing lead them to the numbers
cold spoke
haha guys remember zul
ashen anchor
Blizz will never forget Zul
distant cypress
Zulul
stark heart
I forgot that I am standing AFK in temple in PoE
cold spoke
he pulled out a pro gamer move
stark heart
ashen anchor
Kinda like SPriests and Xavius right?
cold spoke
zul broke the 4th wall
pliant sorrel
Sub was fine in legion
It had 2 dance baseline dfa and master of shadows
Zul didn’t ruin sub the talent rework did
For no reason
It peaked in tomb but quickly got nerfed
Forgot the nerf though
drowsy hollow
YAY SIN BUFFS
cold spoke
leggo bracers
kindred crescent
but sub is getting buffed in 9.0.5 though
have they announce a buff?
cold spoke
dk 
distant cypress
Kek
cold spoke
sub getting amz from dks confirmed
drowsy hollow
WAS FLAGELLATION FIXED?
distant cypress
Imagine sub being buffed
drowsy hollow
OMG
fleet whale
flag was made better yes
distant cypress
Reworked
sweet zealot
idd
drowsy hollow
THANK YOU DADDY ION
stoic needle
VAMPIRE BOYS WYA
sweet zealot
lets hope this pushes us to top 5 😛
distant cypress
Imagine playing venthyr and not hot blue fae
stoic needle
The duration of the haste buff got increased as well
dusky fulcrum
lets not forget that ion nerfed articifer cuz his guild got stuck on it 
distant cypress
With mommy ysera
drowsy hollow
Psh, rogues have no time for the faeries.
sweet zealot
Imagine playing venthyr and not hot blue fae
thats me m8 😛
drowsy hollow
Heck, they buffed the conduit too. The covenant conduit may actually be best for me haha
stoic needle
If they rework draven
drowsy hollow
I'm personally most excited for envenom extending SnD
drowsy hollow
Draven is a pvp, tank, healer tree
frozen jasper
I'm personally most excited for envenom extending SnD
wait did they announce new changes ?
copper lotus
so how about that sin buff lads
stoic needle
drowsy hollow
Cut to the Chase Envenom extends the duration of Slice and Dice by up to 3 sec per combo point spent.
drowsy hollow
just need to envenom once every 15 seconds
meager egret
MoP? That shit was in Wrath
reef axle
yeh everyone re roll sin lets go? least let me hope........
meager egret
stoic needle
I can probably deal with thrill seeker and soothing shade being clown fiestas if flag isn't shit
mellow pier
@cold spoke wotlk
ionic fox
The energy regen is for all 3 specs
cold spoke
was it wrath holy shit
meager egret
Yep
stoic needle
Idk how much of a dps buff cttc is going to be in practice
It's like 7 or 8 more envenoms in a 4 min fight
frozen jasper
<#319990965337063425>
yo thats sick
frozen jasper
interesting lego changes as well
echo shadow
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
stoic needle
That's true I didn't think about the envenom buff uptime
If bloodfang isn't a typo it actually looks kinda nuts
ornate gazelle
Go to logs and look at slice and dice casts, subtract all but the first, add the envenom damage for the new envenoms. It’s gonna be huge
subtle tundra
i mean its not really about how many envenoms it is, its that the spec wont feel like a chore playing it
meager egret
Bloodfang has to be a typo
Isn't that more than it was on the beta pass that made it broken? That was only like 500% IIRC
stoic needle
I have had zero trouble keeping up SnD rup and garotte at 95% uptime so far so I don't agree that it makes playing sin a chore
amber trench
100% bloodfang is supposed to read 74.1% and not 741
ornate gazelle
Cut to the chase could make elaborate planning great again too
dusky fulcrum
pliant sorrel
I’m excited tho these sin changes are sick they nerfed that vendetta legendary in legion
And some how they fkd sin rogues so bad
stoic needle
🚀 🌝
severe relic
what are the best safe overall stats for Assass legos?
pliant sorrel
They’re reverting it
tribal marlin
Seems like Limit melees are rolling for rogue, assuming Maximum says
pliant sorrel
Yeah they randomly nerfed it and they ruined the spec so bad they’re un nerfing
I don’t remember
It lined up so nicely in guldan tho
hollow escarp
he did say something about that in his melee meta video
like assassination is the only rogue spec that has chances to be brought to mythic rpog
tribal marlin
Actually idk ... Flagel dealing 50% AP + conduit making it lash 5 time, it's a 250% instant damage + an additionnal 50% AP per finisher. That's a big truck of damage
onyx wind
Thats not how it works
pliant sorrel
Well sub literally brings nothin
pliant sorrel
Outlaw is just consistent cleave and st
onyx wind
And then 10% for each additional cp spent
pliant sorrel
Sin has execute and big burst windows
fleet anchor
Idk how much of a dps buff cttc is going to be in practice
None because SnD was nerfed to shit with the R2 removed lol
pliant sorrel
And good af up time with bleeds
stoic needle
None because SnD was nerfed to shit with the R2 removed lol
We get the energy baseline though
fleet anchor
Wowhead saying it was made available to all specs is a datamining error. It was just removed.
balmy condor
I thought that was weird
stoic needle
hollow escarp
slice and dice was available for all specs
warm parcel
Yea it was just changed to "nonspec" category
hollow escarp
or I just read the current notes
fleet anchor
The effect was literally removed from the SnD spell data so either way
We're like 10 APM atm lol
warm parcel
Yea it doesnt affect regen on ptr atm
onyx wind
Oh so we dont get the energy regen at all?
copper lotus
oh so we lost energy regen?
fleet anchor
Yes lol
copper lotus
sadge
onyx wind
XD
fleet anchor
I have no idea what they are doing
copper lotus
10% is a loooot
tribal marlin
idk I need to test on PTR Flag but
fleet anchor
copper lotus
i mean
fleet anchor
This is peak Assassination gameplay speed right here
sudden brook
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
copper lotus
LOL WTF
onyx wind
but ur not using bleeds man...
warm parcel
Have you tried applying bleeds 
fleet anchor
lol I was testing the baseline
fair storm
ASSA FOTM 9.0.5 lets go boyyyyyyyssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
warm parcel
ikik
balmy condor
ASSA FOTM 9.0.5 lets go boyyyyyyyssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
are you just channel hopping right now to shit post or?
fleet anchor
SnD was something we specifically made an argument for during beta
fair storm
?
frank tangle
it says "now available to all specs"
fleet anchor
Because Assassination was the one spec that didn't get resource from SnD
Compared to Sub and Outlaw
frank tangle
why wouldn't sin have it
ashen anchor
Quick! Reroll Venthyr Assa with Doomblade!
balmy condor
weren't you just in sub going on a bender
warm parcel
Its like what 800 energy less over 5 mins.
For 8 less snd casts?
strange python
Jokes on you I’m already venth
fair storm
well so you channel hopped too then i guess
severe relic
Shit i was just about to make my first assass lego....now i dont know what to make
fleet anchor
Will try to get this implemented in PTR build of SimC after raid tonight but like, this is almost certainly a rather significant DPS loss
short hamlet
Seems like Limit melees are rolling for rogue, assuming Maximum says
Gotta be troll unless these buffs actually translate to huge buffs.
Or they're rolling rogues incase more buffs come out to position for world first.
distant cypress
Reroll class
stoic needle
Are you sure that snd not giving energy regen is intended
distant cypress
We are so starved for Buffs we are getting our minds blown by cttc
onyx wind
You have to realise this means more uptime on envenom buff tho
so its prob not a dps loss
distant cypress
Do you want to end like us?
limber lion
Envenom buff does jack shit
obtuse anvil
sin chat is a roller coaster
frozen jasper
i dont know what to believe right now lol
fleet anchor
It's only more uptime on Envenom if you cast more Envenoms, which you don't.. because you are losing more energy than the SnD finishers cost.
distant cypress
We have borderline disorder after 18 % of fcking dmg buff in 3 hot fixes
frozen jasper
All 3 specs get 10% energy regen from SnD
yeah thats how i understand it too
drowsy hollow
Slice and Dice Slice and Dice increases Energy regeneration by 10%.
Now available to all specs
Category changed from Specialization to Abilities
stoic needle
Koji how do you know that the lack of energy regen on SND is intended
fleet anchor
severe relic
what energy loss are you taking about? It still shows all specs get regen now
stoic needle
Could it be a bug
wide bolt
It's okay BlizzConline will fix everything :)
severe relic
its probably not intended to be gone man lol
drowsy hollow
is there no SnD rank 2 you're missing?
severe relic
probably not intended
fleet anchor
There is no regen effect on SnD
fleet anchor
It is a datamining error on wowhead's part to display it as "all specs"
drowsy hollow
it'll be under rogue skills, not assassination
obtuse anvil
dude
distant cypress
primal gazelle
drowsy hollow
if it's gone, then that's by error
fleet anchor
I mean you can believe me or not but. It's not there right now on PTR, so there's no reason to believe it will be.
eternal vortex
fleet anchor
Wowhead diffs aren't patch notes
Blizzard never said it would be there
If it's removed, it's removed for now
stark heart
yeah I checked with API call and SnD doesn't give any energy regen
severe relic
except it wasnt posted as being removed and actually added, so its probably an error man relax
copper lotus
you know wowhead isnt blizzard, right?
severe relic
yes...
copper lotus
k then what are you trying to say
obtuse anvil
this would be far from the first time a tooltip diff on wowhead was misleading compared to what's actually in the build
severe relic
damn negative nancies are running crazy lol
distant cypress
Getting so frustrated over an error that you want so much to be true but it's not
limber lion
Take your screenshots now boys so after a month you can post them here again when we're sitting at 15 APM
balmy condor
guys, she's gone, it's time to let go
distant cypress
Dam. Son
obtuse anvil
and considering it's also not koji's first time running through spelldata changes for a patch
maybe you should take his word for it
drowsy hollow
Then bug report it, I'll do it.
stoic needle
I'm just gonna pray that this is an error
distant cypress
XD
stoic needle
And wait for more notes
distant cypress
This guy.... XD
stark heart
guaranteed crit from stealth seems to be working just fine
limber lion
Like they have to physically remove it from the ability. It's not like it magically disappears. They actually went and removed the energy regen.
stark heart
I don't quite get why PK applies non lethal on cast but lethal on impact
but who cares about that
drowsy hollow
So spell 344362 is gone from the data files entirely?
wind totem
I want to sim myself as assassination but I don't have the specific legendary. When I add all legendaries the one I want is in the wrong slot. Is there a way for me to sim it in the right slot? This is about raidbots.
shut garnet
stage 1: denial
stark heart
I'd say losing that energy regen is fair because you don't spend cp keeping SnD up
so like
it's a trade off
fleet anchor
I mean it's just a straight nerf so I don't really see the point of that tradeoff
copper lotus
stage 1: denial
LMAO
limber lion
@drowsy hollow
fleet anchor
Makes SnD feel less impactful and does less dps so...
reef axle
!opener
limber lion
SnD has been an awful addition to the spec and now they somehow made it worse.
Didn't think it was possible.
tribal marlin
but it's wierd because it mean we loose one of "new shadowlands passif"
stark heart
why it does less dps if before you would spend X budget on dam and Y on SnD and now you just spend X on dam?
obtuse anvil
I'd say losing that energy regen is fair because you don't spend cp keeping SnD ...
have you heard the good word about grand melee?
copper lotus
i was gonna say, removing snd buff just for envenom uptime seems like a hardcore nerf
obtuse anvil
the benefit of free SnD
severe relic
i just wonder what lego will be bis overall now. Still Zold?
tribal marlin
since everyone should have get 1 active and 1 passive rank2 spell
obtuse anvil
is super minimal
stark heart
you are still fundamentally energy limited
fleet whale
i mean to be fair, the 10% energy regen from snd
copper lotus
@stark heart because 10% is HUGE for the overall kit
fleet whale
was a pretty minor dps gain
copper lotus
comparitively
hollow escarp
I really hope deeper stratagem will be viable with the new snd changes
limber lion
Lmao
wind totem
want to sim myself as assassination but I don't have the specific legendary. When I add all legendaries the one I want is in the wrong slot. Is there a way for me to sim it in the right slot? This is about raidbots.
balmy condor
I really hope deeper stratagem will be viable with the new snd changes
it'll probably be LESS viable because the energy is gone
hollow escarp
is it?
fleet anchor
Also there is definitely no new passive in the spellbook either
mild bough
want to sim myself as assassination but I don't have the specific legendary. Whe...
Gear compare on raidbots
brittle pawn
want to sim myself as assassination but I don't have the specific legendary. Whe...
it adds them to both possible slots
hollow escarp
ffs, need to read everything again 
fleet anchor
copper lotus
feelsbadman
strange python
what u think about the doomblade buff?
fleet whale
early iterations
obtuse anvil
amazing
hollow escarp
too op 
stark heart
<@!129867731024609281> because 10% is HUGE for the overall kit
you are missing the point
copper lotus
no, you are
empty crescent
rogue is just too fucking good
obtuse anvil
we're going to be out of spells from shadowlands at this rate
fleet whale
but we do need a perk to take it's place
drowsy hollow
Likely unintended I'd say. Bug report it and see what happens
wind totem
it adds them to both possible slots
What do you mean both possible slots? It looks like this and I want to sim dashing scoundrel in the shoulder slot
fleet anchor
Well Lorentz, I don't really see the point of SnD if it's just an AA boost
stark heart
chase means you don't spend portion of your energy budget on upkeep
fleet whale
considering sin now has less things compared to every other spec in the game
when leveling from 50-60
stark heart
so removing that excess energy doesn't mean less dam overall necessarily
fleet anchor
This is literally why we managed to request the regen during beta feedback from the dev that was working on it at the time
stark heart
point of SnD existing is another topic
teal bloom
The 10% energy gain was removed because it was lore breaking 🙂 why would you gain more energy from hitting faster???
fleet anchor
So SnD was actually meaningful
For Assassination
Rather than just being a passive DPS gain
warm parcel
Well Lorentz, I don't really see the point of SnD if it's just an AA boost
Neither do I, but blizz seems to want to make old stuff our new stuff
copper lotus
while it may not necessarily do it, it's definitely very likely that it will result in a dps loss
warm parcel
Its just their SL version of spec fantasy
obtuse anvil
What do you mean both possible slots? It looks like this and I want to sim dashi...
well, it's probably because dashing scoundrel can't be put on shoulders
fleet anchor
Since both Sub and Outlaw get resources from AAs
copper lotus
a free 15 seconds per proc vs 10% energy regen is crazy
fleet anchor
And Assassination doesn't
obtuse anvil
legendaries only have 2 pieces they can go on
stark heart
I don't get why they brought it back in the first place
copper lotus
12-15 seconds
mild bough
What do you mean both possible slots? It looks like this and I want to sim dashi...
don't do a top gear sim, do gear compare. type in the name of the base white item that you made your legendary from and then you can select the power
obtuse anvil
scoundrel is boots and cloak
stark heart
And Assassination doesn't
you do with dashing
mild bough
gear compare lets you sim gear you don't have yet
sleek otter
Wait do you delay sepsis for vendetta or no?
fleet anchor
I mean that is one specific legendary, but I don't really see how that changes it
wind totem
well, it's probably because dashing scoundrel can't be put on shoulders
Dear god. 6/10M and I just found out legendaries are exclusive to very specific slot that vary by legendary... Let's pretend I didn't say anything...
fleet whale
and to be fair, 10% energy regen was a pretty lazy and low impact way to make SND more meaningful for sin
copper lotus
outlaw and sub don't have to use a legendary to get the resources
brittle pawn
don't do a top gear sim, do gear compare. type in the name of the base white ite...
thats shit advice
mild bough
he was asking how to sim a legendary in a slot that he doesn't have the legendary in
you can't do that in top gear
stark heart
I mean it's still a possible and viable playstyle that makes SnD have some meaning
oblique copper
you can
brittle pawn
because hes a muppet
stoic needle
Yes you can
stark heart
like I don't argue SnD is weird, I dunno why it's back
wind totem
I'm a moron. Stop arguing about this 😄
brittle pawn
he wanted to sim in a slot the leggo cant go in
copper lotus
just cause the initial change wasn't good doesn't mean nerfing the class is a good idea
sleek otter
oiiiiii is delaying sepsis for vendetta a dps increase or no?
stark heart
but I think right now they are like "well we can't take it back mid xpac, might just make it non existent in the rotation"
it kinda already is for Outlaw, now for Assa
fleet whale
it's really funny that like 30 mins ago this channel was all hype
and now we have doomers lol
oblique copper
they may have upped our baseline energy regen or haste scalings
faint harness
stoic needle
hollow escarp
and now we have doomers lol
not really
copper lotus
but with a nerf accompanying it, its not
tidal gorge
If they want to make it non-existent in the rotation, they should just make it passive...
fleet whale
it's prolly a dps loss
copper lotus
you wont necessarily get 5-6 envenoms
fleet whale
but not a big one
copper lotus
you don't get that
drowsy hollow
what makes Flagellation hit harder in assassination than sub?
copper lotus
its not a 1-1 ratio, because you've lost the energy regen getting you access to said envenoms
copper lotus
you're also losing the envenoms you would normally have from that energy regen as well
fleet whale
and again.. were still early in these changes guys
copper lotus
so it's not just "math"
hollow escarp
so it's possible to cast SnD only once per fight with Cut the Chase? 
fleet whale
sin is currently missing a perk from 50 to 60
stoic needle
Listen boys
fleet whale
other things are likely coming
stark heart
okay, SnD in current ST is ~13% of your combo points spent, CP you would have for free to do dam now. You lost 9% of your energy budget meaning roughly you generate 9% less CP but freed up close to that portion of them, so I don't see how it's so gamebreaking and bad
stoic needle
Whining is the only thing that blizzard listens to
fleet whale
if were gonna whine about sin, i would much rather have that effort
drowsy hollow
in crappy 186 gear on the ptr, Flagellation now hits for 1111 without the conduit. 200 ilvl conduit turns that up 70, 1900 damage plus the haste boost? YASSSS
fleet whale
placed on other issues instead of 10% snd energy regen
copper lotus
lorentz, you're still missing a part of that rotation, and the fact that it's not simply a 1-1 ratio of cp -> energy regen to use said cp
stoic needle
Have they done any talent tuning so far
balmy condor
no
fleet whale
not for rogues
drowsy hollow
on other classes
stoic needle
For any class
hollow escarp
smoke bomb back, shrouded suffocation talent 
stark heart
lorentz, you're still missing a part of that rotation, and the fact that it's no...
what?
drowsy hollow
they doubled one of havoc's talents
stark heart
your energy budget directly converts into CPs
stoic needle
They seem to be doing these in batches
stark heart
and into spenders
you lost energy -> you generate less CP, but you also spend less CP on something you have for free now
copper lotus
yes, but losing a portion of your budget doesn't equate 1-1 with cp loss %
cedar steeple
what happened to sin
limber lion
But it's not 1 to 1.
copper lotus
exactly
stark heart
on what else would you spend it lol
copper lotus
the math is much more complicated than comparing energy budget to cp budget
hushed sphinx
GIVE ENERGY BACK BLIZZ 😡
feral merlin
Omg i was just complaining about how stupid Flagellation works and that I always forget to reactivate it
fleet anchor
The pacing changes are hard to know until I get the sims updated
hollow escarp
they need our energy to remove the conduit swap energy
fleet whale
sin has many other issues that are more pressing than whether snd gives energy regen or not
drowsy hollow
Omg i was just complaining about how stupid Flagellation works and that I always...
everyone did
fleet anchor
It affects the entire cadence of generators, DoT refreshes, etc.
fleet whale
the old snd perk of increasing attack speed
fleet anchor
Hard to say exactly how it would work
fleet whale
actually increased dps more than the energy regen
feral merlin
everyone did
well ive played rogue for 2 weeks so i wouldnt know
fleet anchor
I mean that change was not about the raw DPS Varolyn as much as the gameplay
Or lack thereof
fleet whale
even so, 10% energy regen was weak
you likely aren't really feeling that energy regen
copper lotus
if something does relatively the same dps but makes the class more fluid, its a good change
fleet anchor
I mean you should be able to feel a 6-8% energy gain difference imo
oblique copper
10% more time spent in the alt tab, that's actually good
hushed sphinx
not sure they need to be taking anything away from rogue rn
copper lotus
we'll just have to see whether or not they're making more changes
i'm sure they are
they already have
drowsy hollow
I'm gonna check to see if the character sheet haste changes, the buff doesn't show any haste right now for flagellation, may be a bug though
low girder
lol
fleet anchor
The Legendary changes are pretty extreme in a few cases, it's really hard to ballpark
sudden brook
guys good thing they nerfed sin by getting rid of the energy regen, because without that change it might scale out of control
fleet anchor
Although most of the larger changes are for Outlaw tbh
drowsy hollow
Flagellation haste buffs works while building, but the buff after the 12s is currently bugged. Reported it
copper lotus
@sudden brook 
tidal gorge
guys good thing they nerfed sin by getting rid of the energy regen, because with...
If you're gonna say S-WORDS like that you might as well just go to the outlaw channel
copper lotus
LOL
balmy condor
guys good thing they nerfed sin by getting rid of the energy regen, because with...
I've been foiled, boondoggled, some might even say swindled
graceful halo
was about to craft zoldyck, should i hold off?
copper lotus
sin was too strong
strange python
9.0.5 sub dead sin master race
drowsy hollow
We have a month still before this goes live
I want them to buff tiny toxic blade until it's a 10k nuke every 25s please
hollow escarp
strange python
No sub buffs is l0l. Another expansion of sin and outlaw
gloomy steppe
It's a bug
fleet whale
If were going by how much apm were losing, swapping from vigor to DS turns my APM from 45.9 to 43.3.
The energy regen loss from SND, and if you're still using vigor, is going to be like 2 abilities max
gloomy steppe
Same bug from beta
drowsy hollow
oh
fleet whale
idk i prolly won't feel that that much
gloomy steppe
It'll get fixed again
drowsy hollow
11k over 6s would be nice
gloomy steppe
Yeah and also giga-broken
tidal gorge
11k over 6 sec would ... be better than DD trinkets by far
outer lodge
This SnD Change and Cut to the Chase passive is going to result in a dps loss?
fleet whale
11k over 6 seconds would be busted as hell
fleet anchor
Assassination was starting to get used by like 10 people vs 2 from the week before, it was t r e n d i n g
balmy condor
Assassination was starting to get used by like 10 people vs 2 from the week befo...
🚀 🌑
fleet whale
@outer lodge possibly, but there are likely more changes to come
drowsy hollow
We're missing the energy regen
fleet whale
considering sin is missing a perk
obtuse anvil
don't break his heart
tidal gorge
💎 👐
feral merlin
do is doomblade gonna be good?
warm parcel
DW Koji
feral merlin
so*
wind totem
Yo anyone remember which CN bosses dropped shoulders? I remember generals but not any others.
balmy condor
do is doomblade gonna be good?
seems like it, yes
warm parcel
Ill always be assa ❤️
balmy condor
Ill always be assa ❤️
wrong discord, warrior slave
wind totem
oh I thought there others as well. Oh well. Thanks for the response
fleet whale
sire is the only boss who drops a helm too
fleet anchor
@warm parcel I believe in you!
outer lodge
all the shit blizz could be fixing and they decide to pull this shit lmao
balmy condor
lmao
copper lotus
cuz warrior bad
copper lotus
y u surprised
fleet anchor
lol
obtuse anvil
fleet whale
so with new flag, i wonder if we just hold it for every vendetta
or if we use it on cd
split veldt
is venythr gonna be the move?
fleet whale
idk about the move
feral merlin
If mutilate crits, does doomblades dot have increased damage?
fleet whale
but it will be better to play
balmy condor
If mutilate crits, does doomblades dot have increased damage?
no
balmy condor
is venythr gonna be the move?
no idea yet
fleet whale
maim mangle is gonna be the new meta
fleet whale
with doomblade you heard it here first
split veldt
is this snd buff not good?
limber lion
Probably hold for Vendetta. It requires you to use as many generators in a short time, so you'll be needing the Vendetta energy regen to get max value out of it most likely. Can't say for certain obviously, but that's my bet.
tidal gorge
It's fun to speculate, but good to remind people not to go all in and buy stuff until the patch is actually ready to release 
fleet whale
were also missing a perk too