hmm
#assassination
fallow otter
That says more about the fire mages than you
stoic needle
Yeah they were probably trash
cedar steeple
yes
the blood dk would have done more damage than them if they didnt use every single necrotic weapon
tender fjord
No katar? If you look at what high rio assass rogues are using, they’re almost all running it. What’s your reasoning for not running it?
stoic needle
I just looked at the top 20 assasination rogues on raider.io and only 3 of them run it
Poison katar is bad because it's only a dps increase over LP and WPS if you consistently have over 5 targets. Given that you don't even fok until 4 targets and that many pulls in m+ don't have 5+ targets up the whole time you don't get a gain from PK through a large part of the average key. Whereas with LP and WPS you always get value
Also, just because a 'top player' runs it doesn't mean it's good. There's so few people playing sin in keys that the top 20 goes down to 1400 rio which really isn't that high
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
clear zealot
!fuu
torn atlas
I think this is a good way to show it. Haha.
273.6 Sin score is ranked top 5k.
737 Sub score ranked 14k
There just isn't the numbers running keys on Sin
lament dove
but also if you check top assa rogues, you can see how stupid people are regarding the meta, top assa rogue is at 1900 and only played keys as assa, and other top assa rogues there also main assa so viability is not a question...
I'm surprised still so few people play it
although I like to see myself as a top3 assa on my server, but still...:D
torn atlas
Oh absolutely haha.
misty holly
although I like to see myself as a top3 assa on my server, but still...:D
Pretty sure I'm the top assassin rogue on my low pop server. So if you have some questions you want to ask a "top rogue" send them this way.
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
plucky briar
M+ ranking is heavily skewed because theres barely any real competition especially in SL
icy dock
do you go full haste crit in m+ with MA legy
frigid kestrel
MA nerf today, ye?
agile geode
Do you think will change anything for assas rogue in 9.0.5?
toxic tusk
A small shitty part of me wants the class to be difficult. I like feeling like an underdog
teal bloom
Is it worth to use garrote two times in opener when using subterfuge? Garrote -> Mutilate - > Garrote. Or should i just Garrote - > Mutilate - > SnD etc?
In single target situation
teal bloom
Thanks
strange python
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
plain thistle
lets go boys
iron orchid
gratz man
stoic needle
Good Lord you're geared haha
plain thistle
yeah, not sure why I didnt go for 2.1 pvp, got to 1.9 in one sitting and never touched pvp again
stoic needle
granite steeple
kind of new to endgame wow/mythic +. Anything I should know about grievous/sanguine as a rogue?
rich yew
Help healer with grievous by self healing / spamming food out of combat. Sanguine stay out of it
So get yourself some food from the innkeeper / health pots. Help whenever healer is low on mana or struggling
granite steeple
great, thanks for this
stoic needle
crimson vial helps a bit for greivous
granite steeple
kyrian phial stop the grievous by chance?
rich yew
and the recuperator conduit might help with some self healing with snd up
granite steeple
i love my Toxin trinket at 220. Its one of the better dungeon trinkets
toxic tusk
Do any of you play on Stormrage?
stoic needle
i used to in vanilla but not anymore
toxic tusk
KilJaeden was my vanilla. It was hell and beautiful.
main forge
Nazgrel, BC Release server.... we had 10 alliance guilds I swear. the best part was everything was cheap, because everyone was poor and didn't have hoards of gold.
toxic tusk
I still have my original rogue! He’s horde now and on illidan. Exalted with Sporregar and everyone in Wrath, what rhe hell was I doing with my time
balmy condor
kyrian phial stop the grievous by chance?
Don’t believe so
feral dune
im just hoping they do the item exchange i requested
balmy condor
The what
feral dune
i had assassination selected in the drop down menu for the conq vendor, bought a weapon, enchanted and equipped to run a sim, and it dropped to near nothing because its the fist weapon
today, the fist weapon isnt showing in the same menu.
primal gazelle
ROFL
balmy condor
Oh
feral dune
yeah, im irritated as shit about it
balmy condor
Yeah idk
They might just call you an idiot for not checking what you’re buying
Or you might get a nice gm
Who’ll roll it back
feral dune
i dont like sub or outlaw, hoping they can exchange it
balmy condor
50/50
feral dune
sucks, liked playing assass in pvp better than playing my boomy.
gusty mirage
is that any good????
It’s not terrible, I used a 220 for a while. But it was worse than a 213 chain from raid. So it’s okay, not the worst thing you could’ve gotten
gusty mirage
Yeah it could definitely be a lot better. It’s super underwhelming lol
lapis jungle
where ya'll reading about the MA nerf?
vestal wren
stark heart
okay guys, I have connected to Cosmos and it showed me the future
Next raid tier set bonuses:
2p - Slice and Dice increases Energy regeneration by another 10%
4p - Envenom refreshes your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum
balmy condor
I would lose my mind
icy crater
What a sick tier set bonus
balmy condor
I might unironically switch to sub if that's the sin tier
stark heart
why?
balmy condor
it's boring, doesn't change any rotation, removes an ability, and simplifies an already fairly simple spec
and imo
that's really fucking garbage
stark heart
I'd argue Assa has too much upkeep now
balmy condor
and I would hard disagree
trim zinc
having 3 upkeeps is not too much
true
stark heart
well I don't think SnD has any meaningful place in the rotation, it doesn't really add anything interesting
fading adder
It’s still less upkeep than warlocks.
warm parcel
trim zinc
well I don't think SnD has any meaningful place in the rotation, it doesn't real...
its makes your poison application better
and u even have the envenon bufh
shy dust
okay guys, I have connected to Cosmos and it showed me the future
Next raid tier...
Why not just remove snd
Much easier
trim zinc
its makes u have more poison aplication lol
stark heart
I dunno why they brought it back in the first place
icy crater
Just make it passive fuck it
fading adder
Fun and engaging.
trim zinc
^
stark heart
iconic ability, moments of excitement... oh wait, wrong xpac
yeah, buffing autos is totally fun and engaging, having more passive damage is what we need
trim zinc
i wasnt saying that
i was just saying that inst only u have to keep it up
cuz if thats true why poeple care about envenon buff uptime?
fading adder
They should have brought back kingsbane as a either a talent or lego
stark heart
rank2 SnD is there because you can't even tell if you have SnD or not realistically without meters, it doesn't affect gameplay unless you have Dashing and even then I bet it's not easy to notice
icy crater
How strong is assa execute compared to other classes?
balmy condor
How strong is assa execute compared to other classes?
it's like top 3
fading adder
Meh at best.
balmy condor
up there with DK and aff
icy crater
warrior/fire mage?
icy crater
condemn seems more than a little no?
icy crater
DK so strong 😦
stark heart
condemn doesnt add execute
I think question was how potent execute is, warriors jump in damage when they go into exe is still respectable
warm parcel
sure, but that doesnt come from condemn
Its just inherent to warrior
And while it increases warriors dmg by a fair bit
icy crater
It's my fault, I forgot fury was a spec.
warm parcel
The starting point is so low it ends up still sucking compared to others
hollow escarp
so I invited a mage to make things easier in the key 
stoic needle
Miki was in here simming execute phases and sin rogue is definitely top 3
hollow escarp
Miki was in here simming execute phases and sin rogue is definitely top 3
you can even see that if you check top logs on p3 sire
icy nova
hey guys im late to my rogue, was playing other classes for the start. I'm looking at Kyrian for my covenant. Just curious, how often does seal fate mess up getting the exact amount you need for the kyrian ability?
critting and getting 1 too many combo points than you need for example
worldly fable
You have a big time window to use the marked combo point
icy nova
so its not an issue?
worldly fable
IIRC its 45seconds
icy nova
i see
is it any combo spending ability during that 45 second window or only the first one? The tooltip is a little confusing
stoic needle
Only damaging ones
icy nova
but only the first? or as many as you can fit in the 45 second window at the right combo point threshold?
balmy condor
Yeah has to be a damaging finisher on that marked cp
The first
Finishing on the marked cp consumes the buff
So no more marked cp
icy nova
ahhhhh i see, thank you
strange python
Dumb question, but is there any way to sim another spec in raidbots without grabbing the /simc first
I'm at work so can't switch specs 😐
stoic needle
That would be cool as shit if you could do it multiple times within the buff window
balmy condor
Dumb question, but is there any way to sim another spec in raidbots without grab...
change the line that says spec=assassination
balmy condor
yep
you could even change the class=rogue to like
druid
if you wanted to
and sim your gear in feral
strange python
and weep over my lack of dps compared to them
balmy condor
yeah basically
strange python
trim zinc
should i use it on cd or when i vendetta+vanish??
(i use MA legendary)
trim zinc
even if its 100% crit with legendary??
stoic needle
yes
trim zinc
in 9.0.5 it won't crit from MA at all anymore
rly?? D:
stoic needle
you never hold CDs at all as any spec, unless its sludgefist or if the boss is abut to go immune or something like that
and yeah really. check #tc-updates
trim zinc
ty ty <#
split veldt
my itemization seems decent? maybe too much vers because of all this pvp gear
balmy condor
more than fine
trim zinc
maybe im dumb but i couldnt find the thing about shriek trinket
fleet whale
it should still be a decent trinket overall
trim zinc
ya im dumb LMAO sorry
balmy condor
yeah the change doesn't affect any evaluation whatsoever
fleet whale
it is a big nerf in pvp though
balmy condor
what's good before will still be good, and will be after
stoic needle
#TeamFuckSkulkers
stoic needle
my condolences
fleet whale
should be fine on sludgefist
stoic needle
you'll hate it in a couple weeks
stoic needle
spice spire
skulkers 
stoic needle
i took a 20 dps loss just to stop using it
fleet whale
lol i save cds for when sludge is stunned anyway
balmy condor
imo, skulkers is more simbait than IQD
stoic needle
that's how shit it is
balmy condor
don't @ me
fleet whale
don't think i'm gonna get yoinked
spice spire
@balmy condor
stoic needle
@balmy condor i agree
until skulkers has a 50% fail rate in the sim it can't be trusted
balmy condor
don't think i'm gonna get yoinked
well yeah, you're not gonna get yoinked, because the trinket won't trigger
LMAO
fleet whale
you're also not considering that your name isn't Varolyn
I hold powers that few know of
balmy condor
I had 2/3 casts fail on sludge last week
if you can just make the bug disappear
I would be amazed
pliant apex
if an item is 22 dps upgrade but makes me lose 40 haste, should i use it? i think losing haste just makes the spec so much less engaging to play
stoic needle
yes
balmy condor
yes
fleet whale
yeah you should
stoic needle
i had to make the same choice today
pliant apex
ah 22 dps anytime over 40 haste
stoic needle
feels bad
balmy condor
also you definitely will not be noticing a loss of 40 haste
fleet whale
the haste feeling thing is mostly mental btw
stoic needle
back down to 20% haste from 23% now
balmy condor
you might start to feel it if you lose like
300 haste
but if you're losing like less than 100
I highly doubt that you're so tuned into your gameplay
that you can actually feel that shit
pliant apex
hmmm icic
spice spire
I lost 113 haste today 
balmy condor
maybe if you're like omega high
and it feels like everything is already slow as fuck
pliant apex
back down to 20% haste from 23% now <:Sadge:722115893810823179>
20%? im at 4% haste.. is that too low
balmy condor
depends on your definition of too low
stoic needle
lets just say that you should definitely work on increasing it
balmy condor
too low to be playable? no
too low for your gear? depends on your gear
too low for BiS? yes
pliant apex
but still give up 40 in lieu of 22 dps?
pliant apex
yea true
strange python
So wait one gosh darn minute
Skulker's is bugged? Is that why it feels so fucking trash to use?
strange python
Basically if i don't see my guy jump it doesn't do anything?
balmy condor
yeh pretty much
strange python
Fuck
I just figured it wasn't doing it since I was on the boss
Back to hateful chain lol
oak arrow
Wonderful Tuesday to be blessed with a weapon 😃
spice spire
I would not
balmy condor
I would, but only if I don't mind the covenant I'm going to
I don't like the visuals, nor the ability of venthyr
so I wouldn't change to venthyr for anything less than like 100-150 dps personally
I like both kyrian and fae though
so if it's 50 dps between those
I would probably change, just cause I don't mind
strange python
Yeah I'm venthyr right now and it feels like ass
NF is 54 DPS for sin, +96 for outlaw
Just a matter of if I feel like actually switching I guess...
stoic needle
it's worth it
stoic needle
i went from venthyr to NF and I wish i'd done it sooner
stoic needle
not hard when there's only 200 of them
strange python
Hey let me have my moment lmao
#4 for mythic..... yikes
We venthyr sin rogues are few and far between
balmy condor
not hard when there's only 200 of them <a:KEKWW:656696261679906826>
there's 200 venthyr sin rogues?
that's a little high don't you think
stoic needle
strange python
RIP me
You aren't kidding about Skulker, wow
I never bothered checking the damage on it
strange python
ay lil kidder
Is there a way to see how much dmg it did on every pull so I don't have to click on each pull
balmy condor
just click on "all encounters"
balmy condor
<:FeelsKEKMan:704892811681726504>
there's actually 568 venthyr sin rogues in heroic US/EU on logs
balmy condor
why is that jank?
strange python
Because I'm dumb and I don't know what I'm looking at
But I see a lot of peaks and valleys
and it's not consistent
So that leads me to believe the trinket sucks?
balmy condor
you're looking at the damage done by you, by skulkers, over 17 wipes of mythic inerva
stoic needle
im pretty sure that doesn't count the times you cast it and it doesn't go off
balmy condor
the peaks and valleys are meaningless garbage
strange python
Yeah that's what I was trying to like track
balmy condor
so all we need to do, is check on how many times you had the buff
wait
no
hold on
that's not what we do
we have to look at the hits
not the casts
so this is actually the number
you had the buff 36 times
so you hit all 36
strange python
So the trinket doesn't suck, I suck?
balmy condor
in this case, the trinket doesn't suck, yes
strange python
HMMMM
stoic needle
that's the problem with skulkers
sometimes it works fine
sometimes it just doesn't work at all
it's consistently inconsistent
balmy condor
indeed
across the entire night, between you and your dk buddy, you actually only missed 1 cast
which is quite good
shy dust
Also just very bad on boss like council
strange python
Dang. Maybe that's why I parse so poorly on council
balmy condor
so on that log, skulkers pretty gud
balmy condor
but there's also times where it'll hit immune bosses like on slg or council
or just fail to proc entirely
strange python
What about this right here though
Is that just saying I used it 21 times while spector was out
and it only hit spector 3 times
so it could have hit boss the other 18 times
balmy condor
I would think that the "casts" tab in this case is very jank
According to the casts of your character, as well as the amount of buffs you actually had on your character
The correct number is 36 casts
strange python
balmy condor
So there’s something weird with how it’s tracking casts
strange python
Here's another night. So it looks like it actually missed twice that night?
balmy condor
39+4+2 = 45 hits
If you go to buffs/casts and check how many times you actually used it
And it’s 47
Then yes
balmy condor
I’m surprised you’re only missing that little
Tbh
I’ve seen the buff stay on my character so many times
2 in 47+36 is crazy
strange python
Pull up one of your logs lets see if our findings are actually similar
balmy condor
Yeah maybe I’m trolling
strange python
lol
balmy condor
I’ll take a look
strange python
I'd stalk yours but idk how to type the weird character in your name
olive tendon
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
shy dust
have enough energy for what
Sin is not meant to be a GCD locked spec
its a slow paced spec
mortal scaffold
that's not what memory of lucid dreams told me
shy dust
memory of lucid dreams was similar to what we currently have in apm
mortal scaffold
idts
mortal scaffold
i dont ever recall being this energy starved
i know because i didnt know it was a thing until this expac
balmy condor
I’ve gone over this like a million times lmao
balmy condor
Eternal palace with memory was just as fast as it is now
shy dust
outside of that its apm is very similar to 8.2 with lucid
if you dont enjoy the spec play something else outlaw has very high apm
mortal scaffold
ive only ever played rogue in 8.3 so
shy dust
yes
that was an aberration
thats not how sin is usually
having 70% haste messes with a spec
stoic needle
mortal scaffold
i was at 20% last season tho
shy dust
We still had other external factors to give us other types of haste
like iris and haste procs etc
and without expedient they are still probably close in apm
stoic needle
that's a 9% failure rate over 38 pulls
split veldt
how much mastery does Sin need?
strange python
damnnn
split veldt
i have 0 right now
mortal scaffold
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
split veldt
yeah thats why i have zero, sim says it's the worst
stoic needle
its cuz you don't have zoldyck
that's why
at 222ilvl pretty much only your legendary is holding you back
split veldt
i see a lot of the top 100 using it on warcraft logs
stoic needle
zoldyck is bis
stoic needle
he's using MA
stoic needle
yeah that's why, if you sim it with maxed zoldyck and an equivalent ring it'd be higher
split veldt
1 dps higher than MA with a maxed zol
oak arrow
i sim that at 213. 🧐
stoic needle
another 8%, from 28 pulls and 2 keys
yeah i'd like to see what your actual stats are it's weird that you sim that low
in my review of my own logs skulkers seems to have a consistent 8-10% failure rate
which is horrible
split veldt
keen dome
Mind linking your sim? Could be raid buff usage
stoic needle
u have windfury disabled
split veldt
well yeah, i dont have it in my raid
stoic needle
simming with and without WF doesn't change your gearing priorities, so you just turn it off when you want to see what your actual dps will be
oak arrow
run it with Zol, should get an increase during the execute period.
balmy condor
yeh 207 ring won't cut it
worldly bridge
hey bois
split veldt
gonna have to grind conquest to get a 220 pvp ring
balmy condor
hey other boi
split veldt
isnt MA better for M+ tho
balmy condor
zold
the difference is very small tho
I personally didn't notice much of a difference between ma and zold when I was testing it
worldly bridge
i'm progressing with guildies on MM we've killed Destroyer, first pull on KaelThas in 5min 😄 Does add live long enough for Sin to be viable or should I swap to Sub/Outlaw ?
balmy condor
sin is fine
strange python
Kael isn't an add fight
strange python
Priority is bursting through shields, so you wanna focus ST burst windows
balmy condor
and that's about it
split veldt
if inerva gives me the ring this week
worldly bridge
Soo i'm better off goin classic ST spec ?
worldly bridge
Priority is bursting through shields, so you wanna focus ST burst windows
if thats the most important thing I should consider Sub instead maybe
split veldt
nvm, second pvp ring is shit too lol
outlaw still sims higher, fml
i hate roll the bones so hard
stoic needle
i mean that's so close who cares
balmy condor
if thats the most important thing I should consider Sub instead maybe
sub burst isn't actually as high as you think
split veldt
main reason i went MA was so i could use it on a ring and be able to switch back to outlaw if needed
worldly bridge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4J3CMgvRL6UuPrwg8Yt9Wb
how can i be this low compared to you with more ilvl ? Weapon ilvl ?
split veldt
weapons and trinkets are pretty big
stoic needle
you have windfury disabled
oak arrow
you guys said there were issues with Skulkers too right?
stoic needle
yes
split veldt
so i should really be on the hunt for a second good ring and use zold in raid and M+?
stoic needle
i just went back and looked at my logs and skulkers averaged around an 8-10% failure rate
stoic needle
so i should really be on the hunt for a second good ring and use zold in raid an...
yep
balmy condor
I saw about 10% as well
stoic needle
if i could get any fucking trinket from the vault
oak arrow
i just want to parse like this guy someday lol
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/23453464?mode=detailed&zone=26#metric=dps&difficulty=4
balmy condor
I actually really fucking hate MA on sin
stoic needle
we don't mention p**n around here
stoic needle
oak arrow
😯
stoic needle
peen is the perfect example of why PI logs should be separate from regular logs
balmy condor
he still triple garrotes on huntsman btw
fucking clown
peen is a case study on how you don't need to be good or play perfectly to log
just have ridiculous gear, get a PI or 2, and speed kill with a bunch of pumpers
oak arrow
haha. sorry i brought him up , didnt know😅
subtle tundra
balmy condor
true
oak arrow
on a random note, Poisoned Knife is for some reason doing AOE damage and showing up as Fan of Knives on details. at least on lower level content. not sure if thats whats supposed to happen?
oak arrow
i hit one and the rest of the mobs die with it though
oak arrow
confused me at first cause i only used poisoned knife. but tried it a few times on diff packs and same thing
slender urchin
Sin is about 200 dps behind Sub for me...that + sin being generally more forgiving might be a reason to swap
I need more haste gear
balmy condor
can anyone tell me where I can improve ? Anything major ?
cast shiv more
balmy condor
I need more haste gear
depends on "need" tbh
if its within 200, your gear is probably already pretty good
balmy condor
can anyone tell me where I can improve ? Anything major ?
oh you also let slice and garrote drop a couple times on that hungering kill, not sure how that happened
worldly bridge
cast shiv more
im trying to "save" it for when i can cast 3 envenom inside and / or not do any mechanics during it
strange python
You only wanna do that if it's like... 1-2 seconds
worldly bridge
i think i failed to refresh dots/snd during expunges / consume
balmy condor
slamming it whenever it's available is generally just better than trying to min-max the shit out of it and failing at it like you did in this case
worldly bridge
especially SND if i know mechanic is coming, i dont mind missing 4-5sec before runnin away for consume
worldly bridge
that's a lot
worldly bridge
i need to learn how to use warcraftlogs better this kind of info is insane
strange python
The info doesn't help though if you don't make the changes 🙂
worldly bridge
i will 😄
balmy condor
the "7 second" thing is very rough btw
the timeline on the graph here is super janky sometimes
but the fact that it's not a consistent line is the bigger issue
happened here as well
it just seems like you're not using the pandemic timer tbh
are you letting every garrote tick to 0?
but yeh, you had 12 shiv casts over 6:51, which is actually just insanely low
slender urchin
depends on "need" tbh
I'm just about 223~ -- yes my gear is solid. I've just been Sub>Outlaw and haven't touched Sin all expac so I have like...100 haste on my gear.
balmy condor
I would expect 12 shiv casts over 5 minutes
slender urchin
Tons of crit/verse
balmy condor
yeah that's fine
slender urchin
On a quick sim of stat weights haste was like 1.6~ and the other stats around 1.3~1.0
slender urchin
"need" may have been aggressive, but I think I can close the gap between sin and sub substantially by hoarding some haste gear
balmy condor
yeah I'm not saying you're wrong or anything
worldly bridge
are you letting every garrote tick to 0?
i let them tick to 0 when its a buffed garotte from vanish
slender urchin
And once I have them near equal I'll switch, since I find Sin easier to play/less punishing
balmy condor
And once I have them near equal I'll switch, since I find Sin easier to play/les...
there's just a weird concept with sin that you can't play it unless you have like 25% haste, which is why I bring it up
stoic needle
subterfuge because you can double dip on sire and remornia with the subt garotte and it's good for the adds
slender urchin
Ahh yes... on a dummy it feels fine TBH, I just want to be able to justify the switch.
stoic needle
when you drop down in phase 2, youcan rupture sire and remornia and then vanish garotte sire, remornia and the 2 melee adds, that's huge
empty crescent
good info ty @stoic needle
stoic needle
i like sin more than sub and outlaw because you can actually plan your cooldowns around the fight because you don't have a bunch of built in CDR
sacred yarrow
I plan my adrenaline rush to be up all the time !
worldly bridge
@balmy condor im returning from TLK, im still rusty with pandemic and stuff. U telling me I shouldn't let Subterfuge buffed garrotes tick to 0 ?
balmy condor
subterfuge buffed garrotes yes
strange python
I can't wait to get home and open my vaulttttttttttttt
balmy condor
but normal garrotes no
stoic needle
I can't wait to get home and open my vaulttttttttttttt
phial blessings be upon you
strange python
PF is the only dungeon I ran last week 
stoic needle
tbh that's how the vault should work
sacred yarrow
I wish that's how it worked lol
stoic needle
it doesn't
strange python
I better get my god damn phial
stoic needle
it's 100% random no matter what
strange python
F
Pappa needs a wep from heroic sire thoooo
this 197 daggie is dragging me down
ionic fox
Justifying Sin on Sire is easy.... only damage that matters is p3 and sin murders p3
sacred yarrow
That's true
worldly bridge
on heroic mode i actually pref Sub @ionic fox
ionic fox
This is coming from someone who started rogue in SL and never played sin.
worldly bridge
cuz 2 shadowstep let u connect to boss much easier than only 1
especially when ur guild is messy with soaks
ionic fox
Heroic is all about padding so.. yeah xD
spare anvil
hey guys, can someone explain how this can happen in torghast?
spare anvil
ah okay, i checked my anima powers and non of them had "explosive inflamation" in it iirc ^^
ionic fox
@sacred yarrow i am horrible at navigating logs so not sure
balmy condor
ah okay, i checked my anima powers and non of them had "explosive inflamation" i...
it's the green one that does 15% damage
sacred yarrow
I just roughly looked at mythic anywyas
sacred yarrow
Highest p3 rogue dmg was like 5.9 by sin rogue
Highest Outlaw p3 atm is 5.2
I think I need to brush up on sin lol
U topped p3 dmg
spare anvil
it's the green one that does 15% damage
but how does that result in 1,3m dmg?
balmy condor
sin rogue has some of the strongest execute damage in the game
balmy condor
but how does that result in 1,3m dmg?
it does aoe
spare anvil
but on a single boss?
icy crater
I think I'm making the jump to NF next week from kyrian
icy crater
How giga
stoic needle
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
icy crater
I pvp a lot and kyr is kinda troll
stoic needle
ahh that's fair
icy crater
with restealth playstyle
even though you can kinda meme with kyrian empowered 1 shots lul
stoic needle
hammer of genesis is within 1% of first strike for m+
that's mostly what i was referring to
balmy condor
but on a single boss?
probably wouldn't do that, no
balmy condor
it does do a lot of damage though
stoic needle
but if you pvp it's pretty valid to switch
eternal portal
all i see is there are so many sepsis bugs that keep you from restealths...triggers many pvpers
icy crater
Yeah, I think the gain I'd get in pvp from switching outweighs the min/max potential in pve for me personally
stoic needle
just don't press sepsis before you re? that destealth thing isn't hard to play around
icy crater
rogues have dealt with combat bugs like that for years.. I guess it sucks but its nothing new
Even though sepsis is a dot.. its kind of crazy that it does like 5x the damage of ER
*in pvp
empty crescent
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
eternal portal
yep ER was hitting for like 8k? Mb to much on the 25k hp pools with low versa...but now with nearly 40k hp and peope with 25% versa and more? ER would be fine if unnerfed
balmy condor
ER crits after a symbols on sub was hitting for over 20k sometimes
The vers argument is also nonsense
But that’s a whole conversation about stats and stuff doing more or less damage
Widely speaking it’s a wash
Point is, the ER nerf was 100% needed
loud kelp
ah, ty
stoic needle
Niya
halcyon grail
spice spire
Delete this rn whispyr
balmy condor
You’ll never take me alive
spice spire
Good
wet heron
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
icy crater
ER nerf was 100% needed in its state back then. I’d like to see them revert the nerfs to other stuff and see how it plays out.
Although now ER can maybe be rebuffed slightly
solar hare
owo
wet heron
I've been having a lot of fun as assassination in M+, is it still significantly below outlaw? I'm running 14 and 15s
balmy condor
it is worse, but "significantly" is a little subjective
you can do 20's with sin if you'd like
but it will probably be easier with outlaw
slender urchin
What leggo are we partial to boys? Zoldyck and Dashing sim the same for me
hollow escarp
on tyranical weeks it feels better to play assa than outlaw tbf
hollow escarp
What leggo are we partial to boys? Zoldyck and Dashing sim the same for me
zoldyck
hollow escarp
that's what makes us shine better than others 
me neither, gonna craft master assassin next
r2 into r4
eternal portal
would you guys use zoldyck in sanguine depths? its useless at the last boss...thinking about that myself if i use MA for this one.
stoic needle
It’s actually pronounced “nyaa~”
Ok catboy
strange python
i won the game
stoic needle
balmy condor
Ok catboy
jez actually bought me cat ears and they came in today and I'm so conflicted
stoic needle
jez actually bought me cat ears and they came in today and I'm so conflicted
No you aren't 
balmy condor
smh
strange python
now that I think of it, with all the mock helmets we have that are coming into the game why aren't there any cat ears
some gnomish engineering cat ears
stoic needle
I kinda wish you could swap gear in m+
strange python
we could do some really degenerate shit if we could
I'd love it
switch to ma on vanish
no wait
switch to invig dust ON vanish and MA ON open from vanish
then back to w/e afterwards
stoic needle
You're talking to someone who has 5 different dps sets for my classic warrior depending on the fight length and amount of damage intake
That shit is so much fun
stoic needle
You just bind the sets to your keypad or something and swap every time you drop combat
Idc it's amazing
strange python
I'd have like my "main dps" leggo, and then just a bunch of 190's for switching lol
super degenerate
there's already some wonky stuff you can do on Sub openers with rotten dust and finality
stoic needle
ENABLE OUR DEGENERACY BLIZZARD
strange python
lol
I mean it would allow for a ton of creativity, but man... the knowledge gap between peeps who KNOW and peeps who don't
stoic needle
Good 
strange python
lol that's why we already had snapshotting removed
RIP fok sin snapshot workaround - you were great while you lasted
stoic needle
what was that?
strange python
lol just some legion bullshit replacing mut with fan of knives and keeping up your MA boosted deadly poison
balmy condor
it was worse than that
balmy condor
iirc you could throw knife and shadowstep on pull with MA
and the poison part would hit first or something
strange python
yeah lol
balmy condor
and it snapshot
strange python
it was so fucked
balmy condor
and then reapplications actually increased the damage
stoic needle
omg lmao
strange python
like a 100% increase in dps
stoic needle
wow i'm sad I missed that
balmy condor
it was crazy stupid
strange python
for like 2 weeks I was a god
echo cargo
that bug lasted for quite a while in terms of how fast they normally fix shit
strange python
it was great
echo cargo
yeah i was about to say it was like 2 weeks i think
stoic needle
i want a game that rewards my degeneracy but doesn't require me to spend 4 hours getting world buffs
balmy condor
85% damage was just poison
echo cargo
we had 3 rogues at the time and it shortened all our boss kills by over a minute
stoic needle
i would love for sin to have some kind of ridiculous stacking damage effect if you continuously refreshed your dots in pandemic
every time you do it they get +10% damage or something
strange python
I mean it's good as an idea, but I understand why they shy away from it
stoic needle
so by the end of the fight you have +50% damage garotte and rupture
strange python
if you ever saw the naked sparkuggs raid you'd understand why they NEVER want to do this
balmy condor
like you can cap it at like 20%
but then it's irrelevant
and if you cap it to begin with
then it's like 2 applications and you're there
strange python
the ole 100% crit warlock dot spec in MOP was disgusting
tbh as clever as we could get with snapshotting I'm glad it's gone
it allowed for really horrible imbalances
although in defence of it... at least it was available to everyone, I'm not entirely sure that there was a 23% difference between top and bottom in MOP regardless of this kind of bullshit existing
strange python
but then... it was usually tanks at the top of the meters too lol
strange python
holy shit lmao
snapshotting debauchery at it's finest
stoic needle
shame it's so hard to balance
i'd rather have the top sin logs be about who can keep up the pandemic chain the longest, not who gets fed the most PI in a raid full of pumpers
strange python
I think the thing that's hard to quantify is just how clever the playerbase is as a giant think tank
it's one thing for the devs to develop and test (if they actually do) a system
it's another thing to give it to a million people all trying to outdo eachother
years later... we have rextroy
stoic needle
im actually impressed by the amount of shit he can solo
pseudo aspen
Hello I'm looking to build a troll(ish) legendary for a necrolord rogue. How often does the bloodfang bleed/heal legendary proc? Like will i get decent procs bone spike sniping people in random bgs?
balmy condor
Hello I'm looking to build a troll(ish) legendary for a necrolord rogue. How of...
not sure what you mean by "proc"
it works on all combo point generating abilities, and heals you for 50% of the bleed damage
pseudo aspen
"combo point generating abilities have a chance to infect"
pseudo aspen
Thanks, I will take this into consideration moving forward with my plan.
stoic needle
does it proc from only the initial hit or can it proc from the dot as well
stoic needle
What about garotte 
it technically doesn't have an initial hit
pseudo aspen
The text doesn't specify a hit required
pseudo aspen
He's talking about garotte and the legendary now
feral merlin
anyonone have weak aura with pandemic triggers
balmy condor
garrote would work, but not trigger on the dot
feral merlin
someone posted one about 3 days ago but my WA didnt save the triggs
balmy condor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
those have some
feral merlin
ty ty
thorny fiber
Now that Kleia’s final soulbind is available, is she now better than Pelagos?
icy crater
Can you check, for example p3 sire dps on statistics on wcl?
balmy condor
not in the same form you can normal statistics
you'd have to go through logs 1 by 1
icy crater
Gotcha, does it work better in the rankings view?
ancient peak
what are the single target talents with master assassin? I see people running subterfuge and nightstalker on leaderboards.
desert quartz
Hi im sorry to bother anyone, if there is one legendary to make @ rank 4... cause i want to play mut for fun as im currently OL, should i go for zol or dashing? im guessing zol has more flexibility. thanks!
balmy condor
zol is just better everywhere
void pecan
Sims say for me to put zoldyck's on pants..
I finally got two daggers
Do I follow oh master whispyr
.
balmy condor
zoldyck should go on pants, yes
strange python
I remember the day I saw Whispyr get that poisoners upgrade
now if only the spec would
balmy condor
now if only the spec would
yo big true
balmy condor
also I have come to the conclusion
stoic needle
Normal sin, weeb sin, outlaw sin
stoic needle
Why one but not the other
balmy condor
because EP is much stronger on 2, than CT is
compared to blindside and PB respectively
strange python
the only thing about being a wow dev, is being a disc channel mod probably pays more
#thetopkek
balmy condor
you think I get paid?
balmy condor
oof
agile geode
Im depressed my brothers
strange python
ole bobby boi be soakin up that green
agile geode
I hope to start raid again next tier
strange python
short token
what's the best piece to put dashing scoundrel on?
balmy condor
the trashcan
short token
why's that/
void pecan
It's not zold
short token
sorry asking for someone who randomly asked me in a whisper, i play sub / outlaw lol
balmy condor
zold is like 5 dps lower
stoic needle
Tell them to craft zoldyck instead
short token
on what piece?
balmy condor
on legs
void pecan
legs
stoic needle
stoic needle
Honestly even if it is fixed I don't think I will use it
Anima battery may be worse but at least it makes me go zoom
it feelcrafts better
feral dune
i just dont know wtf to do with sub, with master assassin leggo. bleh.
stoic needle
I'm not quite sure what you're asking
sharp moss
what are the missives needed to use?
balmy condor
haste + crit/vers
strange python
what do you tell someone who is being told by their guild to switch from Outlaw to Sin because they need "Single target burst"?
void pecan
laugh at them
strange python
this concept perplexes me greatly
void pecan
ask them if they know how rogue works 1st
strange python
"dude you know we don't have 7k haste and shrouded suffocation x 3 anymore right? it's a different expansion"
trim zinc
what do you tell someone who is being told by their guild to switch from Outlaw ...
that ur lucky cuz sin>>>>>>>>>>
strange python
that ur lucky cuz sin>>>>>>>>>>
I mean look, I love Sin, but I ain't going to roll it because "st burst" lol
fallow otter
For what boss
trim zinc
I mean look, I love Sin, but I ain't going to roll it because "st burst" lol
like idk about outlaw i dont play it at all
just sin and sub (way more sin)
strange python
I have these, or a 213 memory
but sadly... these both get KARUSHED on sims by the trinket I loathe most...
...skulkers...
my 226 skulkers is the bane of my existence atm
it's just so good.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFFF it works
spice spire
yo fuck skulkers, all my homies hate skulker
fallow otter
Grats bro 👍 I hate you
I need some help from you in this location
Rhymes with pile
low girder
now you get to do it again to upgrade it
spice spire
Even if skulkers works correctly I’ll destroy it on principle at this point
fallow otter
I think we locking raid so I can't even get sludge trinket
spice spire
Pug lower heroic ez
fallow otter
Puk u miss
solid mica
anyone here fought M Xy'mox have some pointers? I main outlaw but I've been building a sin set for PvP and certain fights, a lot of fun but I don't have the experience with it yet
solid mica
not just the fight
but like your experience as assassination that might be useful I'm pretty new to the spec
I'm thinking about rocking it for xymox cause there's so many mechanics that might hinder uptime and it seems like a way better call than playing outlaw on it and having only sepsis as a dot
signal gulch
I just want to say, to everyone with a 226 phial
223 phial gang 
solid mica
also noticed that sin logs highest of rogues on that fight
strange python
also noticed that sin logs highest of rogues on that fight
???
you're looking at some different logs to me then
solid mica
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2405 was looking at this
strange python
um
this is a little painful
that doesn't equate to actual numbers directly
the majority of top parses are still as other specs
low girder
if you're good at sub it's just as good, basically
strange python
granted, you'll be fine as w/e
solid mica
yeah I know it's not exact, but it makes sense sin would be better on that fight in my ehad
head
low girder
depends how many ghosts you get
strange python
secondly... what spec you are is yeah...
really
it's going to be the last thing on your mind in that fight
lol
there is some SHIT going on
low girder
the difference is super minor, it's way better to play what you're comfortable with
solid mica
yeah i figured not sure if it'd be worth just based on my lack of knowledge about it
i played a good bit of sub and have outlaw down pretty pat
low girder
it's not like sub vs outlaw on huntsman
solid mica
i started playing sin in pvp too and it's a ton of fun, feels way better than sub
strange python
xymox is basically a wash spec wise
the fight will fuck you more than w/e you chose to play in it
the biggest tip I could give for mythic xymox is that it's just a beginning to end exercise in judgement
if you don't NEED to use that skill to survive then don't use it
coz you're about to need it
low girder
that and soulshape is busted
strange python
true
low girder
you can literally outrun ghosts with it
low girder
yeah lol
strange python
that and if you have 25 mages, then get the 25 mages to do seeds
like really
like big, big really
DO NOT FACE YOUR BACK TO A WALL
fallow otter
Ok so firstly, you just want to be consistent, we have classes hold cooldowns to push different times now
I think just play whatever is easiest for you
strange python
^
low girder
did the hotfix today do anything for that
'There is now an additional delay before Edge of Annihilation is cast upon entering the third phase on Mythic difficulty.'
strange python
that's just for that fat overlap