the advanced AI that they developed for islands was a false flag
#assassination
limber lion
I also know of someone who doesn't look up any guides or anything and just chooses talents/gear/whatnot just based on what he likes and wants to use
Let's just say that his dps, gear, talents and rotation aren't exactly optimal.
limber lion
Best part is him saying "I don't do any dps???"
balmy condor
maybe leave the theorycrafting to the experts
did a low key today just to test something on my ui
like a 7 or an 8 or something
queued into an outlaw rogue
who was cheap shotting from stealth
every time
without fail
actually hurt to watch
tribal marlin
We had a guy applying to our guild recently
he did like 5 M+ dungeon
this season
balmy condor
M+ doesn't give gear, why do M+
tribal marlin
he was fully geared through the raid and says "I had luck in raid"
balmy condor
tribal marlin
Meanwhile mythic day 1 we were all doing PvP and shit with people boosting other people in PvP to get gear because we only had shit cloak every fucking boss
and the guy apply to a world 100 guild, and say "he doesn't really need to do anything else than raid to get gear"
dafuq dude
balmy condor
yeah
just get all the loot funneled into that guy
that's just an extra split
for the homie
limber lion
:--D
tribal marlin
Fortunately they finally said they will increase loot in raid
will be 4 loots per boss now and increase chance of getting weapon
limber lion
Yeah loot has sucked major cock and balls this tier
Feels bad killing Shriekwing 26 times across all difficulties (9m, 14hc, 3n) and only once getting the trinket from normal.
tribal marlin
I believe this is not the correct approach but nvm
limber lion
Feels bad killing Generals/Sire across HC/N 25 times and never getting a single item.
limber lion
I've done 2 full clears of Heroic where I didn't get a single item from any of the bosses.
tribal marlin
that I snatched just to do more of the MaW xD
balmy condor
honestly with them bringing back valor, just remove it from the stupid shit like callings, have it drop from raid/m+ only, and then throw a vendor on
limber lion
I'm still rocking 220 trinkets and 213 helm :--D
limber lion
But imagine how good it'll feel when you DO get something - Blizz, probably
Yeah after killing the boss 25 times you get pants - which you already had a better version of from the weekly vault
tribal marlin
Nah I feel having loot droping off bosses is good
limber lion
Not only do you have to GET loot, you need to get the RIGHT loot
tribal marlin
but I think they should have done some different loot table
balmy condor
Not only do you have to GET loot, you need to get the RIGHT loot
this honestly is the reason why I think vendors should exist
balmy condor
pvp can just target their shit
limber lion
Yeah, agree.
tribal marlin
like Altimor / Destroyer / Xymog / Kaelthas droping less items (like 2).
But Inerva / Council droping more items like 4
balmy condor
so obviously blizz doesn't have a problem with it
tribal marlin
and Sire/SLG 5+
balmy condor
or at the VERY LEAST just bring back bonus rolls
like why would you get rid of that
sly elk
I feel like I liked the BC method most
limber lion
Yeah, at least a small chance to target the items that you want.
wind nacelle
can only buy loot from bosses you've killed
Wait wut?
sly elk
Yeah I know, how would you buy loot from them after you've killed them?
tribal marlin
Valor as they are is an improvement, I don't think that give a vendor that sell every items off raid loot table is the solution tho
PvP sure is a GREAT source of gear
but we are Rogue we love Versa
some peeps don't like versa
balmy condor
the idea is that you're not able to buy 233 daggers without killing mythic sire for example
tribal marlin
PvP gear is just a band aid fix to their low gear early progression but not the final goal
balmy condor
so you kill mythic sludge, you're able to farm the points for a mythic chain
limber lion
3/20 people get loot, so there's a 15% chance that you get loot from a boss.
Imagine the boss has 4 items that can drop. If they have equal weighting, you literally have 3.75% chance of getting the item that you want.
balmy condor
but you shouldn't be getting loot from bosses you haven't killed
limber lion
You literally have less than 4% chance of getting an item from a boss that has a WEEKLY lockout
It's not like you can go back there and try again
It's not like you have an increased chance of getting the item the next week
tribal marlin
idk for now i'm happy with Valor as they are.
limber lion
It's always 4%. It's 4% the first time you kill it and 4% the 100th time you kill it
sly elk
I dunno about it, personally. Not because I'm not happy about it, but because 220 feels weird.
tribal marlin
but being able to buy your BiS list gear only from vendor Idk
limber lion
I don't think 220 is high enough tbh.
solar hare
Its a good fix but its a bit late
sly elk
Shouldn't it be slightly higher
balmy condor
no
limber lion
At this point 220 is pretty mediocre.
balmy condor
definitely not
you need KSM for 220 gear
and KSM is definitely less effort than getting 226's from mythic
solar hare
I simmed all dungeon items at 220 ilvl and theres not a single item better than what im wearing 
tribal marlin
220 is bad today but was good early prog
limber lion
PVP boys can get 233 bis weapons and 226 items on all slots.
solar hare
Granted im 227 ilvl
limber lion
They should do something else or increase the difficulty, but the cap should be 226.
Like all +18's or something.
balmy condor
I think they should do 233/226 for the +20's
limber lion
Or just a different approach.
balmy condor
but definitely not for 15's
limber lion
Granted im 227 ilvl
Fuck you ok.
solar hare
Ksm is kinda easy to get
If you have friends that will group with you, lfg isnt the way as a rogue lmao
limber lion
Blizzard*
solar hare
6:30 am 
balmy condor
true
solar hare
Timezones 
limber lion
1:20PM, time to start cleaning the house before my SO gets here.
limber lion
I'm such a lazy prick. I can't be bothered with cleaning/laundry/dishes
solar hare
Ive just been playing valheim for the last 10 hours 
limber lion
I never understood the importance of house maids as it's not something that's really a thing in Finland, but god damn I wish I had one now.
wind nacelle
So are we gonna be able to purchase gear itself with VP?
limber lion
I've heard good things of Valheim. Looks pretty fun
wind nacelle
From bosses you downed?
sly elk
Know what really grinds my gears? Poxstorm, longblade of pestilence
on-hit proc to do 206 damage over 6 seconds
Like why even bother
solar hare
From bosses you downed?
I believe you have to acquire the gear from the instance but are able to upgrade it however i may be wrong
limber lion
So are we gonna be able to purchase gear itself with VP?
Pretty sure you cannot buy items
solar hare
I've heard good things of Valheim. Looks pretty fun
Yeah im loving it
limber lion
Yeah, just like Moristi said.
balmy condor
From bosses you downed?
you can upgrade m+ items that drop up to a cap, depending on your achievement level (clearing all 5's, 10's, 15's)
so getting KSM means you can upgrade a piece that drops to 220
if you have enough valor
tribal marlin
well it is during progression
sly elk
Would it make up for me being bad at rogue?
Well bad as an loose term, probably "suboptimal" is more correct
tribal marlin
I don't really understand the question
But to give you a picture
we killed Lady Inerva Darkvein with 210 ilvl
Blood Council with 213 ilvl
We were like geared with M+ ilvl gear and believe me it's an entiere different fight
sly elk
I see
sly elk
Well it's more that I'm not playing perfectly. I keep my bleeds up and do procs and such, but I doubt my rotation or skills would impress someone actually good at assassin
Know what I mean?
I'm good enough to get by, my damage isn't necessarily low, but there's obvious room for improvement
balmy condor
there's not really much impressive about assassination
tribal marlin
The only thing that can make you mess up Assa rotation aside from bad maintenance is overthinking
balmy condor
I don't think there's anything where I look at a sin rogue and go "wow that guy's so good"
sly elk
I mean I looked at Miki's sim number and thought to myself "That's pretty high"
balmy condor
yeah, that's cause he's 225
tribal marlin
It's just gear
sly elk
But maybe thats because I'm not near that level
solar hare
Thats just gear
balmy condor
simdps is gear
tribal marlin
like if you are impressed with my assa simdps
I think I should not link you my Outlaw GS sim dps xD
balmy condor
tribal marlin
spoiler it's close to 7k
solar hare
@tribal marlin lemme see gear 🙂
sly elk
Is that a lot in the grand scheme of things?
sly elk
I see
limber lion
And it's just simdps. That doesn't make anyone "good at the game"
balmy condor
^
wind nacelle
you can upgrade m+ items that drop up to a cap, depending on your achievement le...
That I do know, but the way it was worded gave me the impression we fould buy from vendor 😛
Time to farm a phial lol
balmy condor
That I do know, but the way it was worded gave me the impression we fould buy fr...
that's the hypothetical I wanted to exist
not what's actually happening
sly elk
I don't do sim stuff so I'm not sure what all it entails
balmy condor
I don't do sim stuff so I'm not sure what all it entails
probably should get on that
sly elk
I just know people see high sim numbers and say "wow thats really good"
So I assume it's good
balmy condor
not knowing how to sim yourself in 2021
solar hare
Means they have good gear/itemization
limber lion
You shouldn't look at simdps numbers and think "wow this player is good"
limber lion
It literally just simulates your character in a vacuum with the gear provided
solar hare
I sim 6.3k and im bad 🙂
sly elk
I see
royal lantern
but we still love you
solar hare
Lmaooo
balmy condor
don't lump me in with this pepega
sly elk
I'm not part of "we" lol
solar hare
Ill have you know im the 25th best parsing sub rogue in normal nathria
sly elk
I don't even know what simming is. Is it like parsels or whatever
solar hare
Kind of a big deal
limber lion
I don't even know what simming is. Is it like parsels or whatever
That's the problem
limber lion
It literally has nothing to do with performance.
royal lantern
Ill have you know im the 25th best parsing sub rogue in normal nathria
wow and? I got the #0 log on SLG in week1 normal cus i died on pull and didnt get a cr
BEAT THAT
solar hare
sly elk
I remember in I think WoD or Legion someone said something about an io score and something about pre-pot
Is that the same idea?
limber lion
wut
balmy condor
I don't even know what simming is. Is it like parsels or whatever
it's simulating. There's an action list that's written which attempts to play your character perfectly (or close to it). So you use it to simulate gear upgrades and what your potential output should be
balmy condor
I remember in I think WoD or Legion someone said something about an io score and...
Y IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII KKKKKKK EEEEEEEEEEEEE SSSSSSSSSSSSS
sly elk
I'm sorry 😦
solar hare
im a sub god
Damn
sly elk
I'm not good with technology, I promise I'm not trolling here
limber lion
That makes sense why you thought that Miki was one of the best rogues out there
sly elk
I don't understand a lot of the new stuff people do in the game
limber lion
sly elk
Like the last thing I managed to wrap my head around was dkp when I was doing Naxx
And that was literal years ago
solar hare
<@!239478924244025344> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748228954925695067...
I got one of these last night, n
rmal
Im 6.3k GS law
Sadge
tribal marlin
6450 as sub actually my assa is still pretty low but i'm miss so much haste
solar hare
You have 233 weps ofc?
tribal marlin
ofc not
solar hare
solar hare
And dumb
tribal marlin
idk man I just have lot of gear
balmy condor
I remember in I think WoD or Legion someone said something about an io score and...
okay well pre-potting used to be something because you used to be able to use 1 potion in combat, which means you cast 1 potion right before entering combat, and you wouldn't incur the cooldown. That's not a thing anymore, since it's just a raw 5 minute cooldown, so you just cast it with your cooldowns.
Io score is a system that people came up with to vet people queuing into m+ groups. It gives you a score for your highest key done per each key. So each key gets a score, those are then totaled up, which is then your "io score". Running more keys doesn't increase this, only your highest run. It's the main factor people look at when adding people to dungeon groups
solar hare
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dmdHvAj3NXCBa3VRGJR3Vo
Hey nice trinkets
sly elk
Ah I see
vast forum
then I just gave up
Feelsbad
tribal marlin
ye and i'm not good enough for 2400 in arena
solar hare
Nice strength on gloves lmao
sly elk
That makes sense. Thats clever workaround
solar hare
Im 2250 in rbgs and cant find good groups
tribal marlin
make ALL the difference dude
sly elk
I get why people did it
solar hare
Hardstuck andy
limber lion
Miki sims higher than Moristi? He must be so much better at the game then
vast forum
If double rogue was still meta i'd try to get you guys in some good rbgs
solar hare
Truth
vast forum
Assuming eu horde
balmy condor
Ah I see
raidbots/simulating is the main way to figure out things like your best in bag, what item to pick from your fault, what trinkets to run, etc etc. Having a bot play your character very well, over 10-15 thousand theoretical fights, is a lot more accurate, and faster for a comparison than someone sitting on a dummy for example and comparing it themselves
vast forum
But double rogue is basically throwing this season
sly elk
I see. That makes sense.
limber lion
Simulating is NOT a way to track how well someone plays their character.
sly elk
So simulations aren't so much how someone is doing as it is if someone were to do the best possible
balmy condor
yeah, simulating is basically a robot playing your character with your gear for you
sly elk
Like "best case scenario" type stuff
limber lion
If you see someone with 6.4k sim and someone with 5.8k, it does not mean that the one simming higher is better. He just simply has a better setup.
balmy condor
in order to see player skill you'd revert back to things like io score, logs, and progression
limber lion
You literally don't press any buttons or do anything. You just press "simulate" and the robot does it 10 000+ times for you.
sly elk
But if someone sims higher, doesn't that mean they just naturally do more damage?
limber lion
We're basically just repeating the same things here over and over.
balmy condor
But if someone sims higher, doesn't that mean they just naturally do more damage...
given equal skill/playstyle, yes
solar hare
But if someone sims higher, doesn't that mean they just naturally do more damage...
To an extent, obviously theyre not perfect but if your same skill yes
They have better gear/itemization
sly elk
I see
solar hare
i.e. more damage
tribal marlin
I think you obviously missing socket but also you have too much mastery
and not enough haste
sly elk
That makes sense
limber lion
Here's a theoretical:
Gingi, one of the best hunters in the world, creates a new alt account and sims it at level 1 and it comes out as 14 dps.
Jackballsack68 just killed Artificer on normal and sims 3.4k.
Does this mean Jackballsack68 is the better player here?
limber lion
Yeh, Jackballsack68 is an MVP
solar hare
sly elk
I feel like that's false equivalency, but I mean I guess the point is the sim might be the better character but not the better player overall
balmy condor
the only thing I look at is how many internet rating you have
sly elk
Which I got
balmy condor
don't talk to me unless you have received 50 karma from r/wow and cleared mythic sire and are at least 2700 in 2's, 3's, rbg's and io
limber lion
It's just pointing out 2 extremes. A really good player with an awful character, and a really bad player with a decent character.
balmy condor
limber lion
Even if the character is bad and sims bad, doesn't mean that the player is bad.
sly elk
I see
limber lion
don't talk to me unless you have received 50 karma from r/wow and cleared mythic...
oh no get down boys
solar hare
don't talk to me unless you have received 50 karma from r/wow and cleared mythic...
2.7k rio 
sly elk
So if I do a sim, do I have to put a lot of information into it, or do I just tell it what Im wearing and my abilities and it does it
limber lion
You use an addon which fetches the loadout that you have.
balmy condor
you have an addon that imports everything about your character, and then you just pick the changes you want to sim
balmy condor
so like blindside vs elaborate, or 1 cloak versus another
sly elk
Thank you, I'll check it out
limber lion
If you want to compare players and see how they're performing, I suggest you to get familiar with WarcraftLogs.
If you're stuck at low dps but have similar gear to someone, you can check out better players' logs and see what they're doing differently to get better results.
Raidbots and WCL are essentially the 2 best websites you should be using to get the most out of your class.
And of course class discords. 
tribal marlin
And of course class discords. <:heavybreathing:585734081925611520>
hey that's us !
limber lion
hey that's us !
limber lion
Admittedly there are some terrible class discords out there.
solar hare
Im in them all and i can solemnly say this is the best one
By pretty far
Worst has to be dk probably
limber lion
vast forum
Ye, most class discords are trash
balmy condor
true
limber lion
Alter Time was one of the worst for the longest time, but with the release of Shadowlands has gotten quite a bit better.
limber lion
you think that's a lot, don't look up guy
Oh boy. Reaching for 300k
balmy condor
been a lurker most of my time
vast forum
Oh
balmy condor
started really getting into the weeds like 8.2 though
and then battled the war of 34% all of 8.3
so you're not too far off
royal lantern
vast forum
First time i saw you was the eb vs no-eb discussion in mechagon workshop
I think
Maybe a bit earlier
limber lion
ew eb in workshop
vast forum
Whispyr was a different man back then
balmy condor
that shit came up so many times
limber lion
Like pretty much everything else in this discord
balmy condor
yeh I was a lil stupid in 8.3 sometimes
limber lion
It's the same shit every day
limber lion
This simulation, pre-pot, io thingy was news
I like a bit of spice
Should we talk about using Rupture as a sub rogue in M+?
tribal marlin
feelcraft is like the fundation of theorycraft I guess
vast forum
What's the haste cap for assa?
balmy condor
#frost-mage
solar hare
Mightve sent him into a ptsd episode
tribal marlin
You need to "feelcraft" a bit to get ideas 😄
royal lantern
i feel fluffy uwu
vast forum
I feelycrafted my way to 100% logs before and high rbg rating so idc if it's not always fully optimal on paper
solar hare
In the words of someone “it just works”
vast forum
Good feelycraft makes me happy
balmy condor
i feel fluffy uwu
solar hare
crimson palm
What's the haste cap for assa?
34%
limber lion
Oh no, we woke Hemo from coma.
vast forum
Welcome back, old friend
vast forum
My 90% haste in 8.3 says otherwise
crimson palm
Not a fighter style spec
vast forum
34% too low
tribal marlin
He's not completly wrong tho there exist an haste point at 33.4%
balmy condor
increase the envenom stonks
vast forum
Big crits big smiles
crimson palm
He's not completly wrong tho there exist an haste point at 33.4%
Brb making a youtube video
vast forum
How can you be sad when you crit big?
balmy condor
my damage can't be bad
vast forum
Who cares about dps, it's all about who has the single biggest damage instance on the boss
balmy condor
my evisc hits for 5 mil
vast forum
My dfa crits for 28 mil
vast forum
The good times 
tribal marlin
<:poggers:652288776021999626>
It's 12%, 23% and 34% where you reduce garrote ticking time enough so that it ticks an additional time giving you 1 additionnal occurence of Poisoned Wounds energy regen xD
crimson palm
Make sure u delete this convo afterwards
tribal marlin
sure xD
crimson palm
Or ull be featured in an infexious vid
vast forum
If only pandemic never existed this would be useful info
tribal marlin
In subtelty tho there exists a haste point where you are almost guarantee to have shadow tech proc every 3 globals
so that you can always SSx2+Evi and never ever think about "should I SS at 4cp or ?"
but it's like, not a haste point you break with gear, requierd lust and shit like this
vast forum
I think you get a sht proc in 3 globals most of the time at current haste levels anyway
tribal marlin
Actually it's easy to approximate.
You need to get a proc every 1.45sec to get 2 every 3 globals.
You need to perform 6.2 autos to mostly be guarantee to have a proc (including miss chance)
So a single weap should hit 2.13 time every second to make it.
Nah
not possible
would requiert like 300% haste
teal bloom
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
sly elk
I just did my first sim
tribal marlin
congratz
balmy condor
sly elk
On the upside, my actual damage isn't that much lower than my sim, so I think that means I'm doing an okay job
On the downside, my sim damage is low to begin with lol
Or maybe it's not, I can't actually tell
balmy condor
That’s the right side of the equation to be on usually
Playing good is usually much more rare than just having gear
sly elk
My biggest damage source is poison
I guess probably because I'm using dashing, lethal conduit, and mp
sly elk
I see
royal lantern
if you use talents that let poisons do more dmg, poisons tend too do more dmg
thats how math works lel
balmy condor
You can actually go into top gear
And just select talents
And it’ll sim all the combinations
I would suggest if you’re simming the classic 1 target 5 minute patchwerk
To try blindside, master assassin, vigor, alacrity, poison bomb
If that’s not something you have selected
vast forum
Actually it's easy to approximate.
You need to get a proc every 1.45sec to get ...
You're ignoring the 50% chance for it to proc on 4th attack
sly elk
My build is basically that but I had subterfuge
vast forum
Sure it's not guaranteed, but if you average it out to 4.5 it's easier
You need a total of 5.4 attacks across 3 sec, which is 2.7 attacks per wep
Which, with snd active and some reasonable amount of haste isn't that unlikely
vast forum
I counted 20% miss
5.4 attacks for 4.5 to be successful
Or wait it's 5.6
Or somewhere there
tribal marlin
oh for 1 procs
vast forum
Yea, i was talking about 1 proc xD
tribal marlin
so 5.4 attack in 1.45sec for 2
vast forum
Yea but you never get 2 in 3 globals
I'm just saying with reasonable amounts of haste and snd up, you can MOSTLY double ss evis without thinking
balmy condor
What if we just attacked so fast that we always had max cp, and then you would actually only cast ss for find weakness uptime
vast forum
Great assa talk tho
tribal marlin
well considering your thought it would requiert 181% haste
balmy condor
Yuh
tribal marlin
to get 2 every 3sec
sly elk
It's cool to be able to see it side by side like this
Poison is always ending up the most damage though lol
balmy condor
Yeah simming is pretty sick
If you have your great vault open, and you hit /simc, it’ll drag your vault options in as well
So you can just select all the options in top gear and let it run
Will tell you what the biggest gain is
sly elk
Fancy
tribal marlin
I'm just saying with reasonable amounts of haste and snd up, you can MOSTLY doub...
that's already what I'm doing and fuck the 4cp finisher
I throw theim out and don't even think about my rotation xD
sly elk
So how do you use master assassin?
I can tell it’s better from the sims but I’m not sure how to actually make use of it
Do I just use vanish alongside like Vendetta?
vast forum
During vendetta, ye
It's shiv these days
Soon we'll start differentiating ppl by tb vs shiv xd
See who's new to rogue
tribal marlin
haha I think i'll use TB
for a while
I remember back in BoD
where the APL was doing Vanish > Tb > Mut > Env
and it was like equal to Env>Mut>Env because of Mut giving 3cp sometimes
so I guess you can do that too
tribal marlin
oh really ?
tribal marlin
oh I think we're talking about the talent
vast forum
I don't know what we're talking about tbh
I don't even know why ma talent is still in the game
vast forum
Either shiv env mut env
Or what you said
Idk what the dpe is for shiv, i haven't played assa since bfa
vast forum
Idk if the extra cp for mut outvalues it
tribal marlin
I'm not sure MA is really good for assa
but if you go for MA you probably want to go for NS as well
rugged dragon
for pvp its the best atleast.
tribal marlin
and do big envenoms
vast forum
Ns pog
limber lion
Toxic Blade. It was an ability used prior to Shadowlands, nowadays replaced by Shiv.
Works similarly, but the name is different.
alpine garden
Yeah, they changed it as part of the "returning class identities" thing
frank sail
So.. Shadowcore oil or Sharpening stone? whats the best option?
tropic ocean
teal bloom
Guys, if I take Crimson Tempest on Sire Denathrius for the phase 1, should I use in phase 2 when it can hit both denathrius and remonia? Is it worth to use against 2 targets? And I guess there are the crimson cabalist adds too that could be hit by it
tropic ocean
Dont think its worth at all in p1
Do adds even live the dot
As outlaw I can just get out 2 finisher before combust wild spirit starfall mafia padded away everything
teal bloom
I guess not the entire duration but I've been using it as we lack some aoe. Perhaps it could be better to just try to use fan of knives and focus sire
tropic ocean
I dont think its a dps gain if they dont live the dot
teal bloom
Yeah ty, I'll just take poison bomb next time and switch back to ct if I see that they live for too long xd
tropic ocean
stoic needle
You just shouldn't take ct at all on denathrius tbh
topaz saffron
^
stoic needle
Your inclination to fok and finish on sire is correct. Ct is really bad for burst damage, and there's a large period of the fight that is single target where ct isn't used
shadow helm
tubercolosis
stoic needle
Ct is only worth it when you get near 100% uptime on 2 targets with it
ember relic
what ilvl can i do torgh 8 at ?
drifting cloud
200? Maybe even lower
ember relic
Thanks , I just need to finish my campaign
tender fjord
I’m at 215 but just do lvl7. Rather do it without any trouble in no time and end up with 80ash less per week than make it consume more time haha
ember relic
I read rogue torgh is rough and my main is a holy pal so i was expecting it to be terrrible
tender fjord
Rogue thorghast is peanuts
ember relic
aight, guessing it was before they updated the anima powers
tender fjord
Master Assassin legendary with the distract power equals a very quick run. Shadow step related powers build lead to a very safe boss fight. But generally just take what is strong and faceroll
ember relic
dont have leg yet lol
jaunty void
should I garrote for 5th combo point even when it doesnt need refresh or should I just 4 combo point finisher?
ember relic
depends, is it a garrote from stealth?
storm onyx
should I garrote for 5th combo point even when it doesnt need refresh or should ...
It would still be an energy loss, use a finisher with 4cps and you can refresh after for pandemic anyway
stoic needle
should I garrote for 5th combo point even when it doesnt need refresh or should ...
Depends on how long is left on the garotte. If it's more than 8-10 seconds I'd say no
gleaming eagle
is niya burr worth it?
stoic needle
It's bis for single target
limber lion
They're all in like 10 dps range off each other.
ember relic
interesting
gleaming eagle
blood elf
placid dawn
can you soothe the middle guy from first boss of ToP when he enrages?
sly elk
Idk if we always had it, but I find myself using soothe shiv a lot
I'm thankful for the utility
plain thistle
Idk if we always had it, but I find myself using soothe shiv a lot
we got soothe this expasion
stoic needle
I'm not thankful for the utility because it comes at the cost of one of our best burst CDs
plain thistle
can that be parried?
are you using mind numbing poison?
stoic needle
I don't think m+ mobs parry
placid dawn
it was on the boss of ToP
stoic needle
I don't ever remember getting a parry on any boss or trash in m+ or any of the dungeon training dummies
plain thistle
I dont think dungeons bosses can parry too, but I could be wrong
stoic needle
I don't think so man, I'm pretty sure it's only raid bosses
Like I have never pressed mutilate in a dungeon and not gotten CP
But it's very noticeable in raid
plain thistle
yeah, dont think m+ has parry, I remember in bfa the only thing that could parry was shadow of zul
stoic needle
Sometimes the only way you can hit a mob is by standing in front of it because of whatever crazy mechanics are going on, if they could parry I 100% would've noticed it
Same thing with the hours I've spent practicing rotation on dungeon training dummy
quaint briar
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
subtle tundra
how good is assa execute compared to others?
gleaming eagle
but you need zoldyck for that
sly elk
I wish they'd just let us stick 2 legendaries on already
royal lantern
^ the entire 2legendary thing is something people say cus we had it in legion
there was never even a word that we get something like that ever again
limber lion
It's power creep in the making
drifting cloud
sure but its also very possible it doesnt happen at all or maybe only at the final tier
limber lion
Yeah. Didn't double legendary happen when 7.2 dropped? Or was it 7.3?
Anyways, don't think it's going to happen when 9.1 comes. Probably add another layer of power on top of legendaries/soulbinds and whatever, don't think it's going to be a second legendary though. But who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
cunning lantern
7.2 if i remember
drifting cloud
nh had 2 legos didnt it
sly elk
I mean we're the heroes of legend and whatnot
We should be able to wear ALL the legendaries
😛
But yeah you're probably right
drifting cloud
oh it was an order hall upgrade for the 2nd one so you had it in EN already heh been a while
limber lion
Oh shit that's true, we did have 2 legendaries in EN. Okay boys we getting 2 legendaries next patch, let's gooo
sly elk
Ayy
rugged urchin
Icy veins opener feels super janky using cov ability first. Is it correct?
pliant apex
on council fight, do i blow cds on attendant? or after hes dead since he goes down so quick? i mean on pull
anyone?
plain thistle
no reason to use CDs on attendant as assa
they die too fast
ranged should just attack them before they reach the boss, after that you do a couple melees and envenoms and gg
spice spire
trim zinc
tribal marlin
yes BS procs is like a "breath of fresh air" in your rotation
and ambush deals good damage
formal steppe
is there a pin for MA legendary on how to use it as sin?
stoic needle
The same as every other spec, vanish on cooldown. open with mutilate from stealth for 4 cp on single target or fok in aoe for a full 5 cp to get up crimson tempest or ruptures
formal steppe
ty
limber lion
The same as every other spec, vanish on cooldown. open with mutilate from stealt...
Eh
You don't need to open with Muti/Fok. The buff lasts for 4 seconds so it doesn't matter if you open with Env/Muti, you still get the same amount of casts of both. I personally prefer being at 5 cp before vanishing and using Env/Muti/Env/Muti.
stoic needle
Oh I was mostly referring to the opener
Vanishing in combat yeah you're right that vanishing with 5cp is usually best
limber lion
Ah alright.
sleek otter
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
stoic needle
mutilate gives more CP
stoic needle
when you crit you get one extra CP per crit because of Seal Fate. Since mutilate is 2 attacks you get 4 cp when it crits, vs 3 with ambush
sly elk
Oh, because it counts both daggers
That makes sense
So wait if my SBS crits will it also give me an extra point
stoic needle
only from the initial hit
sly elk
But the low damage makes it not worth it, I've been told
stoic needle
Not worth it to do what exactly?
sly elk
Sepsis does a lot more damage so it's preferred even though from my understanding it doesn't actually give you any noticible benefit otherwise
stoic needle
Well, it's kind of complex. it's not a simple as sepsis being better because it does more damage. SBS does more damage in cleave situations, and gives you cheap combo points which improves the flow of your rotation decently. with the buff to SBS benefitting from mastery coming up in the 9.0.5 it'll put necrolord roughly on par with kyrian and slightly behind night fae as a whole. sepsis does do a ton of damage, and scales with shiv, but night fae has better soulbind abilities for single target and aoe that put it ahead of necrolord. burrs and grove invigoration and first strike are all pretty strong, while necrolord only really has marrowed gemstone as a notable dps soulbind ability
sly elk
Hmmm
bitter nova
sin beating sub yet?
stoic needle
in cleave and aoe, sure. in pure single target not quite but it's close
tropic bramble
jusr recently switched to sin because to me it became interesting again. but i'm not really sure which leggo i should go for. i was really looking forward to having an execute but dashing scoundrel seems to be simming higher
i should specify that i am purely talking single target
my guild is progressing sun king i would prob go with ma to burst the shield down
balmy condor
You should take zoldyck
stoic needle
Sbs doesn’t win in dungeon slice either btw
i mean sepsis vs sbs alone with no other abilities considered sbs certainly wins in cleave, no?
sleek otter
wheres the update on SBS scaling with mastery or was it not posted but shown on PTR?
sleek otter
Ah gotcha, they havent updated anything from what Ive seen on Wowhead on rogues specifically. Only thing on wowhead Ive seen so far is flagellation change which Ive tested but didnt see the spell actually updated on PTR
they havent posted any updates*
balmy condor
Yep
pliant apex
is it true almost no CE oriented guild would trial sin rogues?
balmy condor
Probably not
CE guilds probably don’t want rogues in general
But CE guilds also usually would recruit the player over the class. If you’re crazy enough of a player
You can get into a CE guild most likely
pliant apex
heh crazy enough cmon whisp dont be so cold now lol
pseudo hamlet
(just wanted to check out which one is better for you, was wondering because MA is also better for me than Sub)
balmy condor
I’m not being cold
There’s no reason why good players can’t get into CE guilds if they show their experience and skill
pliant apex
yea was just jk, sorry. i meant im no way close to good, just barely average
strange python
Become a master of the craft.
pliant roost
@balmy condor was watching a few of ur vods, picked upon some good stuff! Love ur UI btw, you wouldnt happen to be sharing it?
balmy condor
Most of my UI is on my wago here: https://wago.io/p/whispyr
It’s all weakaura/ElvUI, and plater for nameplates
I’m not entirely sure if it’s all updated
If you notice something weird let me know
pliant roost
Ah nice one. Much appreciated
edgy abyss
i should aim for 20% crit, 20% haste and the rest into mastery??
honest vessel
why does the apl mutilate in subt windows? is it because of the guaranteed poison application counts twice for mutilate but only once for ambush?
or is mutilate just better
edgy abyss
why does the apl mutilate in subt windows? is it because of the guaranteed poiso...
because when u crit u get 1 cp, mut u attack with both weapons so thats is 2x chance for crit = 2x cp
honest vessel
right but it's using subt not MA
is ambush just not worth pressing at full energy cost?
iron orchid
i should aim for 20% crit, 20% haste and the rest into mastery??
you should not ever go all the rest in mastery
stoic needle
i should aim for 20% crit, 20% haste and the rest into mastery??
stats don't work like that anymore. just equip whatever gear the sim tells you is best
vale latch
If i wanna go beat on a training dummy, is there a way to get it to account for zoldycks? I don't have the deeps to get a training dummy to execute...yet
honest vessel
there are low level training dummies in your garrison
well nvm you'll crit those
not sure
they might work
idr
stoic needle
There's no reliable way to do it in the game
You can sim for target dummy dps though
vale latch
bummer - ideally i'd like to see how close i can get to my sim in real life. Guess I'm just bringing it to our N CN raid and seeing how it goes
plain thistle
@pseudo hamlet yeah, not using MA right now for 13 dps, I like subterfuge more for the raid
balmy condor
bummer - ideally i'd like to see how close i can get to my sim in real life. Gu...
Yeah, target dummy sims will account for no buff/full health. So you can check your rotation like that
pseudo hamlet
I think that I'll also play Subterfuge, seems easier just to use Vanish and Garrote
balmy condor
is ambush just not worth pressing at full energy cost?
It’s cp thresholding mostly, more cp is just better
vale latch
oh that seems useful - won't be able to give me an ultimate determination of how much damage i'll be giving up vs staying outlaw, but will be able to let me know how bad i'm botching the rotation - thanks!
balmy condor
Np
A side to side patchwerk would account for how much you’d lose based on sims alone
So in theory, if you wanted like a rough estimation
Patchwerk sim both to see like a “real” difference if you played both correctly, and then target dummy sim both to disable all the buffs and shit
Hit a dummy for the allotted time with both
And see how close you get
If you’re within like 5% of sin, but 20% of outlaw, then you can pretty safely say that you’re better at sin, and thus closer to your actual simDPS when it comes down to it
Obviously the fights will have some effect, but if you can’t do it on a dummy, then you can’t do it in raid either
Know what I mean
honest vessel
we love whispyr
snow arch
Garrote with subterfuge is huge dam — awesome on 3-4 target groups
I pretty much use MA legendary for keys, Zold for raid.
pliant roost
I’m not entirely sure if it’s all updated
I was also interested the warning frames that pop up in the top centre for frontals/boss abilities/etc.. is that elv ui or some kind of modification to dbm/bw?
balmy condor
Oh that’s just standard BW
balmy condor
we love whispyr
pliant roost
Oh right. Always used dbm, didnt know... thanks!
balmy condor
I’m sure you can set up dbm to do similar
rough scaffold
Anyone aware if Zoldyck Insigina is any good for pvp? Twos Arenas specifically?
fleet whale
there are better options for pvp
rough scaffold
you think MA is better? Im going to do soime twos with a disc priest and wasnt sure which to build
fleet whale
yes, and doomblade is probably better too
rough scaffold
Thank you! I wish I had doomblade!
rigid wyvern
I play MA primarily
stoic needle
I'd say MA is 100% better for 2s
Doomblade is sustained damage which is pretty useless in the current 2s meta
It just gets healed
fleet whale
MAYBE zold gets used in the future if the meta doesn't become as bursty, and instead we enter in long ass dampening rounds
stoic needle
You need to 100%-0% people asap before they get healed and MA lets you do that better
rough scaffold
That makes alot of sense
battle master - all stam and doomblade. Ill win with a healer but it might take an hour or so 🙂
competition will just quit in disgust!
gleaming eagle
Ma is best for me in 2s
cause dots crit when you inviz
but offensive vanish doesn't work too well in 3 v 3
balmy condor
you don't want to sit in invis though
stoic needle
it's pretty decent when you're going for a restealth inbetween goes
but you dont vanish just to sit in stealth
old snow
you wanna vanish for garrote silence in double envenom after, dots unfortunately dont rly do all that much on their own, altho mby in bgs it can be fun to dot stuff up and vanish
hollow escarp
in bgs rogues are sitting in capping points 
torn atlas
How can I tell if a dot is empowered or not? Is it simply empowered if applied from stealth, and do I need to just mentally track what is, or arr their visual cues that would normally give me that info?
balmy condor
in game there's no base cue to tell you
but there are weakauras that will let you know
hollow escarp
but it's easy to get used to not overwrite empowered bleeds if you play a while with subterfuge
we had 2 years of subterfuge in bfa 😄
torn atlas
Okay sweet. I figured there would be WA that would help but figured I would ask if I'm missing something before looking haha
hollow escarp
there are some weakauras that show the current target bleed value
never used them though
torn atlas
Might look into them a bit. Thanks.
balmy condor
mine show empowerment on all the common stuff
lean fossil
in nw how many weapons can you pick up and hold?
torn atlas
mine show empowerment on all the common stuff
Is this included in your ui stuff you linked earlier?
balmy condor
yes
warped temple
I think it's 1 of each? (<@!197811343871442944>?)
ya max 2 i think. get hammer, then jav 🙂
balmy condor
torn atlas
If I was to get a call up from my guild to help with HC Sire tomorrow, are there any strong arguments towards taking Sin over Sub? I have Finality, Akaari and Zold, so flexible legendary wise. More experience with Sub but comfortable enough with Sin.
Stat weights aren't ideal for Sin but 3 ilvl lower and only sims about ~150 less.
lean fossil
whats the bis for conduits for m+'s
torn atlas
Really just looking for feedback if there's a particular part of the fight that would favour one over the other as I feel comfortable enough to change freely between them, just playing OL is out of the question.
stoic needle
If I was to get a call up from my guild to help with HC Sire tomorrow, are there...
Sin is pretty much bis for sire
Your damage during p3 will be the best in the raid, and the cleave on remornia and sire in p2 isn't bad at all
torn atlas
Very compelling argument haha
balmy condor
whats the bis for conduits for m+'s
LP/WPS are both good
torn atlas
I thought it might be the case that it was favourable but wasn't sure if it was by a significant amount or not.
balmy condor
not enough AoE to use katar usually
lean fossil
yeah i noticed with lp it seems to be a bit better with aoe
stoic needle
I thought it might be the case that it was favourable but wasn't sure if it was ...
Yeah sin has some pretty damn good execute damage with zoldyck, up there with unholy
And you can mitigate a lot of mechanics with your defensives
glossy plover
with the buff to Assassination..is it closer now to run in M+ or is outlaw still the king
oak trout
what exactly triggers Find Weakness? Echoing Reprimand does, but that's about it for some reason
balmy condor
On assassination and outlaw, the bug is ER from vanish/stealth
It’ll invalidate your log
So be aware of that
oak trout
lol
is it just a visual bug or does it really ignores armor?
ah i guess if it logs then it actually works
balmy condor
It applies find weakness in full yeah
oak trout
blizzard, what the fuck
stoic needle
Honestly
lean fossil
what is this bug with ER from vanish/Stealth?
stoic needle
It applies sub rogue's find weakness even as sin and outlaw
balmy condor
Yeh
stoic needle
Because it's coded as a shadowstrike for some fucking reason
lean fossil
ok lol so whats ER?
stoic needle
Echoing reprimand
stoic needle
Blizzard still hasn't fixed it 
oak trout
wonder how it affects pvp
balmy condor
It doesn’t really
mortal scaffold
what does sepsis scale with?
mortal scaffold
wowhead tooltip says attack power--is that just agility?
fleet whale
pretty much yeah, but shiv does also buff it
sacred flax
do you guys go with well shaved steel or lethal poison?
cant have both cause i'm using burrs
pseudo hamlet
What do you guys think about doing Torghast(Twisting Corridors) as Assa? I was playing Sub and it was going kinda smooth(seemed like Anima Powers are more suited for that spec, especially because of the chain-link and ShadowStrikes).
torn atlas
Assassin is pretty strong in Torg
rotund oak
Tried it couple of times,not as fast as outlaw but melts bosses
grave cove
Tried it couple of times,not as fast as outlaw but melts bosses
The key is to get 3x Chain link - your FoK will 1 shot most groups if you have MA
Even at 2x its nutty
rotund oak
The key is to get 3x Chain link - your FoK will 1 shot most groups if you have M...
yep but its not only about killing fast,its about moving fast as well and pulling consistently fast as well 😛
grave cove
Tru ^^
rotund oak
the reason ive tried assa is because i wanted to test how it behaves,seems like outlaw won easy,alot faster alot stronger,maybe assa is stronger when it pumps bosses but thats also relative coz kyrian reverb strikes is nuts
tribal marlin
what does sepsis scale with?
Attack Power, Versatility and Haste.
smoky wraith
hello, i have a question about master assassin legendary and vendetta, are their buffs applying on dots already put on target or should i renew the dots AFTER putting vendetta on/getting master assassin buff?
ex.
vendetta > garrote > rapture
master assa > garrote >rapture
or
garrote > rapture > vendetta > spam envenoms
master assa > spam envenoms > garrote > rapture
to my understaning if dot is placed while you have 100% crit chance, it WHOLE duration will deal bonus damage
median mango
Dots don't snapshot anymore besides nightstalker. The damage is calculated for each tick iirc
drifting cloud
Either way ma hasnt snapshot in last 3xpacs so not sure where you even get the info
smoky wraith
these are my own assumptions only, i was wondering if subterfuge and master assasin legendary may buff each other
amber quail
Subterfuge empower garrote full duration. DoTs doesn’t snapshot, maybe it happen only about haste (tick) on EXA(cause of talent mechanic)
vestal wren
these are my own assumptions only, i was wondering if subterfuge and master assa...
not sure what the quesion is
ma is a dynamic buff, while its up you cit 100% of the time
so if somone is affected by a damage amp it ofc does more dps
smoky wraith
wasting ma buff on utilizing subterfuge makes no sense then and that is what i wasn't sure of
amber quail
But if vanish and stay stealthed,buff is scrive and dots have 100% crit
Not totally wasted...try to applly full empowered garrote+rupture into EXA and vanish staying stealted 🤗
smoky wraith
it wouldn't be the best m+ scenario but i get the point. thanks y'all for help
median mango
subterfuge snapshots
Well yes obviously. 😄
grim otter
So when crafting a leggo, I have 223 pants but only 200 boots, am I gonna kick myself in the long run for making the zoldyck boots instead of pants based off of my current gear?
Or is it not that punishing and the reason they offer two different slots for exactly this reason?
sly elk
Mostly the 2nd one
Being frank, legendary crafting isn't all that daunting of a process overall. You can afford to make minor mistakes because you can just craft another one in 1-4 weeks or so
(1.5 for a 190, up to roughly 4 for a 235, not counting mission tables)
It's ok to make shorter term decisions since they can just be amended later on. The most you'll be out is time
At least thats imo
loud niche
Should I make a new zold's pants for different secondaries, or should i make dashing for ST fights that my guild isn't progging?
royal lantern
i mean
the difference bettwen dahsing and zold is how much? 30dps?
if its worth the hustle and gold cost for you, go for it lel
i dont even switch talents for most non-progress fights at this point
limber lion
You should make 235 MA.
cosmic trail
what talents do yall run for torghast
coral imp
i like leeching/master poisoneer/ct
mossy sable
So even though MA Talent sims better do most take Subterfuge unless it's 100% pure ST?
balmy condor
So even though MA Talent sims better do most take Subterfuge unless it's 100% pu...
Yeah
balmy condor
Not totally wasted...try to applly full empowered garrote+rupture into EXA and v...
It’s actually just worse to do that though
frigid sleet
a garrote out of meld does benefit from subterfuge even in raid environment right ?
balmy condor
I’m fairly certain you need to get the full stealth off from meld to get subterfuge
mossy sable
I am enjoying Sin which I thought I would never say
I need a hell of a lot of work on it though
Pretty bad at it
ruby birch
dont worry about it
sin is pretty friendly to learn
you'll get the hang of it faster than you'd expect
mossy sable
Outlaw while it may be "Easier" I find it harder because of how fast it is and how quickly you can make one mistake that fucks your whole thing up
So I am experimenting with Sin a bit more outside of M+
balmy condor
Outlaw is for sure harder
wind nacelle
RTB usage sucks lol
mossy sable
Outlaw is for sure harder
A lot of people seem to disagree
wind nacelle
Hve at times not refreshed SnD due to getting nothing but GM procs
balmy condor
A lot of people are simply wrong
balmy condor
Sin you maintain 3 dots for the fight and press 2-3 things on cooldown
Outlaws got so much shit going on to react to
wind nacelle
For me personally sub is the worse to play, besides a complete lack of interest in the spec, doesn’t matter how well I stick to my rotation and use shadow dance during damage increasing moments if any (not letting it cap though), my dps always sucks as sub
wind nacelle
Outlaws got so much shit going on to react to
Yeah, I get why people use rotation helpers there lol
balmy condor
I personally really hate rotation helpers
wind nacelle
Considering to save up all my ash for zoldyck pants lol
Yeah not touching those myself.
balmy condor
I feel like it removes the player from the game too much
Wouldn’t be sad to see them banned
But I know other greens don’t feel that way :P
Koji himself programs and uses one
mossy sable
Outlaws got so much shit going on to react to
Thats my big issue I think
I play a lot of FPS games too and reaction time has never been my strongest
So in WoW on Outlaw I overcap CP a lot and also don't react fast enough when I get rolls where I need to change my rotation
frigid sleet
sin is soothing to play
mossy sable
I think the only "Weird" thing I have to do is jump to Shift-1 for my Ambush when I get blindside
Otherwise yeah
mossy sable
I've been moving around 1-4 a few times
To see where I like the feel
Kinda settled on this for now
balmy condor
What do you use Q and E for
balmy condor
Well yeah everyone is a strafer
mossy sable
Yeah
balmy condor
You don’t keyboard turn though right
balmy condor
Yeh
mossy sable
So I don't feel tempted to hit them and cast shit
balmy condor
That works too
mossy sable
Cause thats kinda yikes
balmy condor
I also really like spacebar modifiers for things I don’t cast often
mossy sable
Whispyr do you mind checking a log? I did a LFR with logging to send to a guildie for improvement
mossy sable
I am sure I made a lot of mistakes
balmy condor
Sure I’ll take a glance
mossy sable
balmy condor
Got a lot of homework for today but i don’t mind taking 10-15 minutes looking at it
mossy sable
For sure S&D uptime as always with me needs work
mossy sable
LFR kinda sucks to test though I notices people just pull with no fucking warning
So I would be looking at shit and WTF THEY PULELD?!
mossy sable
I bind all my abilitys so I can hit them while moving
Hence why [2] is always my main "Spamable"
I can hit it with my ring or middle finger
safe totem
when I switched to assa my bars got empty af, there's nothing to fill them with
weirdchamp
balmy condor
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nYg8qrRFBpfywW74#type=damage-done&graphperf...
you're playing MA, so this ain't good
mossy sable
Hmm gotcha if I am playing MA I need to be keeping that Vanish on CD a lot more