Okay cool
#assassination
balmy condor
lament skiff
oh, i forgot what shrouded was. I gotchu
balmy condor
You mfd snd pre combat, then gar mut rup
limber lion
Ambush is allegedly worse than Mutilate in every situation
Unless of course you get a free blindside proc
balmy condor
So no ambush at any point?
Yep
steel ridge
Weird
elfin cove
Bis
strange python
Assa runs mfd?
elfin cove
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
balmy condor
Assa runs mfd?
in m+, yeah
balmy condor
zold
fleet whale
dense axle
so I did a sim with an imaginary Zold at 235, simming talents and stuff. It came out 200 DPS lower on 5 min patchwerk. Is the fact that im heavy in crit/vers and light in haste basicalyl that difference?
also I was heirmir, not Emeni. That might do it
so if I were to rework for haste do you think it's worth switching to Sin? Other than Sludgefist, it seems like Sin works better with this raid
cause there's so much time off boss
balmy condor
200 isn't bad
dense axle
ikr
balmy condor
but if you're good at sub, sub will be better
dense axle
I mean im fairly good at both
wary ice
THoughts on still running blindside in keys?
dense axle
been playing all Sub so far, parse in the 80s
balmy condor
THoughts on still running blindside in keys?
bad
wary ice
EP uptime just too good?
dense axle
but played Sin all of BFA
deft vault
its 200 behind considering no downtime
dense axle
exactly
balmy condor
EP uptime just too good?
ep uptime and you get no blindside procs outside of 2 target
deft vault
and assas is much better with downtime than sub so dps would be fairly even
dense axle
and im geard for Sub
wary ice
Im having a hard time with the ST rotation with ep sub mfd ct
dense axle
so if I retool a bit for Sin I could theoretically increase my overall by a bit
increase my actual DPS
balmy condor
Im having a hard time with the ST rotation with ep sub mfd ct
why's that
wary ice
Im trying to articulate it lol
Im choking out like 3k with vendetta which tells me im messing up somewhere
dense axle
too many dicks flying at your face at once? (too much to press)
back in BFA I saw a pretty good increase in consistency on my pulls after I simmed myself and looked through the "sample ability list" or whatever it's called that just lists out ability casts for the whole sim
wary ice
The opener would be MFD+snd / g / m / r / m4 /vendetta / shiv / env / m4 / env; sneaking ER over an M in there some where
right?
balmy condor
yeah
balmy condor
you can vanish in pandemic range as well
wary ice
do we do anything with the 3x stealth gcdS?
wary ice
in the spirit of orders dont matter i can probably vendetta right after the rupture
use the energy to gain to cover that
the burst still feels anemic though :/
dense axle
yeah, it kinda always has in Sin
even with loads of haste with corruption it was like "cast 5 GCDs, wait 5s, see your name at the top of the meter"
not anemic, just delayed
wary ice
I liked doing prog with the corruption gear cause i always looked good
we'd wipe before the burst ended
Big noob sidebar: theres no difference between training dummies right?
aside from the tanking one that punches you
dense axle
the raid one has higher chance to block you I believe, but they could have changed that 8 years ago and I missed it
or parry
stoic needle
yeah the raid one parries
halcyon grail
Nothing parrys from behind. #playlikearogue
tender fjord
Just had my first attempt at assass in heroic raid. Improved on almost all my sub parses, and that with zero experience. Shriekwing 100 dps less than sub, huntsman 900dps more than outlaw, hungering 400dps more than sub, arti 200dps more than sub, lady same as outlaw, sludge 400dps more than sub
Just as an indication for people wondering
balmy condor
Just had my first attempt at assass in heroic raid. Improved on almost all my su...
parses on sin are very very easy atm sadly
wary ice
i put crippling on not deadly >.>
balmy condor
the actual dps is important, the parses not so much
balmy condor
i put crippling on not deadly >.>
yikes
wary ice
i mean it explains a lot lol
tender fjord
Yeah agree, thats why I mentioned dps difference as well
There are almost no assass logs haha
balmy condor
I walked into raid with a 190 zold and got orange pretty much across the board
was very sad to see
tender fjord
Just had my first attempt at assass in heroic raid. Improved on almost all my su...
And this was all without zoldyck legendary, used MA
stray ivy
ma or zoyldoylck fo r m+
tender fjord
I hope to get a few table soul ash missions tomorrow or Friday, can’t craft a r3 without 300 soul ash 😦
stoic needle
ma or zoyldoylck fo r m+
zoldyck
wary ice
turns out with poisons on i can find an extra 800
balmy condor
crazy how that works
mystic surge
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
yes
strange python
Hmm just tested it still abit underwhelming but not getting the 30% execute single target but my weapons suck and the sim is what im pulling so not too bad - but think it can still be more >:
balmy condor
thanks for sharing
empty cradle
i wish they had an execute phase dummy
or a way to make a dummy there
thatd be useful kinda
strange python
Yeah I miss it thats what I was hoping just have to wait for raid I guess
oak arrow
is it viable to haste/crit stack and ignore mastery and vers? or not worth losing the Item level (on rings especially) ?
balmy condor
is it viable to haste/crit stack and ignore mastery and vers? or not worth losin...
item level is stronger than everything usually
oak arrow
even on rings with no agi?
balmy condor
yes
oak arrow
hmmm ok thanks
balmy condor
a heavy mastery ring might sim lower
but aside from that
there's not a whole lot you can do
just keep simming yourself
oak arrow
i lose 5 item level and 100 dps but gain 5% crit and about the same haste by downgrading rings
reef axle
Still don’t see sin being used much, got a 95 on legion with 4.3k... was like wow....
balmy condor
i lose 5 item level and 100 dps but gain 5% crit and about the same haste by do...
100 dps is quite a lot
echo cargo
in my experience the only slots you can downgrade iLvl but upgrade DPS are rings / cloaks / wrists
and even then it's really close
always sim tho
oak arrow
5093 at 204 item level or 5014 at 199. struggles.
balmy condor
that makes sense
tender fjord
i wish they had an execute phase dummy
Or at least a dummy that didn’t keep clearing my serrated bone spikes haha. I can’t have a real go at the thing as it keeps giving me unlimited spikes
balmy condor
5 ilvl is a big chunk
strange python
why are we talking about reducing dps results as a good thing? Am I missing something?
is this all in the name of "stat balancing"?
balmy condor
muh secondary stats
empty cradle
Ppl are too married to stat prio
feral basin
Played sin tonight in raid and it felt so good........
strange python
this shit kills me man, my guild has gone back to a quasi loot council system, and often asks people "what are your best stats?"
I'm like uncomfortably the only person who has a complicated answer to that lol
"RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT NOW?... blah blah"
balmy condor
echo cargo
I think crit / haste is my pref- though it usually sims the highest
just works for a mix of AoE / ST
balmy condor
loot council only works if the people in the raid asking for gear are aware of how gear works
but if you have the one clown who says "OH BUT THIS RING IS HASTE CRIT INSTEAD OF CRIT VERS"
it'll never work
strange python
the fact that you have specs like sub that has a shifting priority based on the profile of the fight to makes me cringe at that question
it's like "yo trust me man, I actually need this piece. I fucking KNOW it has haste on it"
empty cradle
Just play pvp and pickup whatever says vers/x 
rapid tree
So what is the better leggo for raiding? Zold or MA?
balmy condor
zold
strange python
Just play pvp and pickup whatever says vers/x <:5head:638776277662302228>
it bothers me greatly that this is the real end game atm lol
empty cradle
Yeah it sucks for people who don’t like pvp in this game
rapid tree
Now if I wanted to do pvp on the side should I just go with MA? or make both
balmy condor
make both
empty cradle
I fully believe valor justice system should have returned
rapid tree
Big rog thank you
gusty mirage
I fully believe valor justice system should have returned
It was hinted at by Ion in an interview with PC Gamer. They like where pvp gearing is and want to make raid and m+ be in a similar spot. I can find the exact quote for you if you’d like
strange python
soemthing to bare in mind is that there's a big jump in leggo stats up to the 225, but 225 - 235 is a pretty chill gap if you wana wait on that last step to make other ones
empty cradle
Yeah I just don’t get why they didn’t try it at the same time
gusty mortar
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
empty cradle
I fully believe there’s gonna be a return of valor/justice points as the pve honour/conquest
gusty mirage
Because blizzard’s either short sighted or wanted to improve the metrics for pvp
empty cradle
Probably just use valor to level up m+ pieces kinda like pvp ones
strange python
they could have fixed the issue IFFFFFFFFF they had just done what most seemed to want and gone with a pvp stat, but it is what it is, I think pvp'ers SHOULD have good access to gear through their own systems
They just happened to nerf pve gearing super hard at the same timea s they finally gave pvp'ers what they should have
empty cradle
And justice to buy a piece from someone
gusty mirage
Issue is how you’d deal with the upgrading? Just simply currency? Add some sort of ranking system for m+? A boss kill # for raid
empty cradle
Yeah that’s where I’m not sure
gusty mirage
they could have fixed the issue IFFFFFFFFF they had just done what most seemed t...
Yeah I agree. I don’t know why they’re so anti bringing back resiliency
tribal marlin
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#boss=2407&class=Rogue&metric=bossdps&spec=Assassination
https://i.imgur.com/Is6xvq5.png
c'est fait
❤️
celest ruin
were on the logs bois
strange python
imo an m+15 should reward say like 216 or 217 loot at the end
not AS GOOD as sire or SLG heroic but good enough that it makes being IN THERE AT ALL worth it for the effort
tribal marlin
I did the shitiest pull ever
but I had only 10 pull to setup the spec on the fight I did 130 pull as sub xD
empty cradle
It’s so funny to me
gusty mirage
imo an m+15 should reward say like 216 or 217 loot at the end
not AS GOOD as sir...
Agreed. The nerf in the # of drops and an ilvl nerf seems like it’s too much
empty cradle
Spend 45 min in a m+
gusty mirage
Either or would’ve been enough
strange python
@tribal marlin oof that double on use, idc how good it is, I just can't do it, it offends my delicate sensibilities
also having a 223 phial helps
gusty mirage
Isn’t the badge really good for a lot of classes? 
tribal marlin
haha I did a lot of shit
empty cradle
Yeah lmao
gusty mirage
I just want another good dagger so I can switch sin already 🙂
strange python
Isn’t the badge really good for a lot of classes? <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
a 1 min cd steroid is fucking good, no matter what you play tbh
gusty mirage
Having a 200 ilvl dagger hurts my soul
empty cradle
Time to pvp
gusty mirage
I do 
empty cradle
strange python
dude...
I'm fucking 70+ mythic+ runs in, and all my gvs bar 1 (that I opened for an OL weapon)
and I have had
zero
ZERO
daggers
pvp is de wae
empty cradle
Yeah I love looking at guild members vault weapons
gusty mirage
It’s actually insane, I haven’t seen a weapon from the GV yet lol I’ve gotten minimum 7 boxes opened every week too 
empty cradle
I haven’t seen a single one yet on any character
dense axle
Ive seen 2 weapons. First and second week
gusty mirage
Then I log into my monk on reset? A weapon
empty cradle
That’s cuz monk is currently the chosen class
brittle pawn
Ive seen 2 weapons. First and second week
empty cradle
Hey 223/220 is pretty good LOL
strange python
better than my weapon sets
dense axle
yeah, I aint complaining
strange python
fortunately the 1 GV that I opened as OL gave me a 226 weapon
dense axle
got a 220 weapon from H Denathrius for OutLUL
strange python
but no luck on the dagger
dense axle
bummer
empty cradle
Man I just could not get into it even when sub and ol simmed the same
I hate how they somehow managed to make it more rng
gusty mortar
we going crit haste on zoldyc?
gusty mirage
Sim@it brotha
empty cradle
Sim yourself
strange python
probably your best bet yeah
dense axle
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
dense axle
haste crit wouldnt be bad methinks
deft vault
Ima need someone that can explain why the memory of past sin trinket is good
strange python
crit haste gear isn't wildly common in thecurrent gear list atm
dense axle
@deft vault it do big pew pew
strange python
so securing those stats is a good idea where you can
empty cradle
It can do bigger pew pew with friends
dense axle
^
deft vault
its 5 time about 2k hit . so aorund 10k dam and each hit increase the next hit by 1% so its minor?
empty cradle
But sims account for only you using it
deft vault
would skulkers and dreadfire just be better
empty cradle
Well hypothetically if 5 people use it at the same time
Collectively everyone hit harder
deft vault
ahhhhh it works with other
empty cradle
It’d be like 500 more damage for whoever got the 25% boost
strange python
skulkers is the shittiest trinket ever (i'm also salty af)
the stupid thing sometiems just DOESN'T go off
it always picks stupid targets
gusty mortar
its when you use it being inside target hitbox
need to use if outside and then walk in
strange python
sometimes like on SLG it will choose the fucking shielded boss intead of the gargoyle
sometimes even when you back off and come back it STILL WON'T go off
gusty mortar
yeah after you use it inside it willo not go off until it has a different target
strange python
I'm typically outlaw in raid
so I'm nowhere near their hitbox
and still nada
it's just a troll of a trinket half the time
meanwhile I switch my 226 skulkers back to a 213 memory and crush it
idk why it couldn't just leap you to the target you currently have
balmy condor
yeh it's just bugged as hell
hollow escarp
I really miss Acrobatic Strikes after playing outlaw so much this tier 
strange python
I really miss Acrobatic Strikes after playing outlaw so much this tier <:Sadge:7...
always THE worst part lol
strange python
I cracked the shits hard with my skulkers last night
rapid tree
What are good talents for arena?
strange python
when it picked the shielded boss on Council over the attendant 4 TIMES
4 FUCKING TIMES
stoic needle
i miss acrobatic strikes too 😦
balmy condor
What are good talents for arena?
#pvp ep subt mfd internal alac pb
rapid tree
Thank you!
stone epoch
I'm feeling those skulker woes
tribal mauve
c'est fait
gg o/
stoic needle
please god give me a trinket so that i can be free of the skulkers curse
stone epoch
I'll pop it during the sludge burst window and it won't go off until he runs back to the tank
strange python
I will give up my first born for a dreadfire to replace the thing atm
the annoying thing is, on the occasional fight where skulkers does what it SHOULD
it's fucking good
hollow escarp
not gonna tease too much, but dreadfire is pretty neat
strange python
it doesn't ACTUALLY I don't think
stray ivy
hmm maybe my mod
strange python
^
balmy condor
at least that's how I think it works
strange python
I'm pretty sure that's what it was when I checked it out
coz I TRIED to get a free Shadowstrike out of it
but no go
balmy condor
yeh I had 7.5% on hungering
stoic needle
5.6k 
balmy condor
was nuts
stoic needle
limber lion
I only had 3.82% on Burrs. 😢 I want more
We had some people put their dots up on Bargast and that was triggering Burrs and breaking cc on shades.
That's kinda scary
stray ivy
is pvp really the best way to gear atm? i hate WoW's pvp
balmy condor
yes
mint hinge
Will Korayn with first strike be worth it running it in m+? Using it + ma (talent not legendary) + base crit bumps you to 100% on opener
And you are able to run zoldyck then
But not sure if it's worth giving up burrs, and the mastery from sepsis for it
mint hinge
Not worth getting ma over subt?
stoic needle
yeah i tried simming it and there's just no way to beat subt in cleave with MA
balmy condor
well of course there isn't
subterfuge doubles its value
ma does not
you go to 3 targets
subterfuge now tripled its value
ma isn't even double
stoic needle
well you'd think that the extra crit for more CP would be at least somewhat useful
and it probably is, but it's just still not as good as subt
balmy condor
you're still using mutilate though
balmy condor
you don't fok until like a billion targets
stoic needle
i always forget that cleave specifically means 2
stoic needle
ruptures
balmy condor
and whats the point of rupturing
balmy condor
well, more energy regen, but yes, damage too
so a subterfuge garrote does more or equal damage to a rupture
stoic needle
in my mind having the crit to get up the ruptures up faster than usual would be of at least some value
balmy condor
and grants the same energy
so lets just imagine the subt garrotes are ruptures
would you rather ma fok into rup into fok into rup
or would your rather rup rup rup
stoic needle
yeah, now that you think about it, looking at the tooltips garotte +80% is about the same damage as a 5cp rupture
it's way more actually lol
for me a subt garotte is 8724 dmg, a 5cp rupture is 6748
balmy condor
so with MA, you're actually just trolling while wasting your time getting ruptures out for no gain
takes you twice as long for less damage, and slower ramp
stoic needle
i guess maybe for like... prio damage? kek. but then you're just a way worse sub rogue
frozen jasper
Korayn for m+ next week when we are at 31 or is it also best Right now ?
balmy condor
Korayn for m+ next week when we are at 31 or is it also best Right now ?
31
burrs right now
drifting imp
has anyone some advice for council? i can't get good logs on that boss 🤔
frozen jasper
Yeah thought so, anyone has some insight how the burrs actually work ? Does it throw under the Main Target or Random Target near you ?
spiral bough
Is best raid lego Dashing or Zold?
gusty mirage
zold
spiral bough
i don't know the !commands
balmy condor
zold
spiral bough
If you have 226 legs, do you put on boots?
balmy condor
If you have 226 legs, do you put on boots?
you can, yes
safe pendant
Does more haste make the bleed tick more often for less each tick?
dark hollow
wait wut, koryan outperforms niya at 31?
balmy condor
in m+ yes
safe pendant
But the dot itself still lasts the same amount of time?
balmy condor
But the dot itself still lasts the same amount of time?
correct
balmy condor
echo cargo
Agree
gusty mirage
I'm scared to give assa a full jump 😦 I'm using having a 203 oh dagger as an excuse to delay it
echo cargo
All in Sin all the time
dark hollow
i wanted my H-CN run as sin last night to be a failure but it wnt well and now im scared some tell me its going to be all right
worthy heart
Mr oxi thats my excuse too, mine are 200 and 187 xdddd
echo cargo
Offhand for Sin is just a weenie statstick
gusty mirage
but tbh my performance as outlaw in mythic has been atrocious lately
so I want to try something I'm more comfortable with (assa)
echo cargo
If you don't like Outlaw and your first thought when playing Sub is "man, cleave sucks with this," Assassination is your calling
Also if your guild has people who stand in fire during P3 of any boss you get dank executes where you pump your stonks up to the moon
gusty mirage
I've always hated outlaw, and sub just doesn't hit the same. I played assa all of BfA and even pushed keys as Sin
worthy heart
how do you cleave with assa other than dotting hard? 😮
stoic needle
offhand for sin is actually a tiny bit important because its used in the mutilate damage calculation
but just a tiny bit
stoic needle
Also if your guild has people who stand in fire during P3 of any boss you get da...
literally this
when everyone dies and you're alive you giga pump
safe pendant
Same ^
echo cargo
If you have pepegas on Hungering you can add an extra tank or two
safe pendant
He's gatekept my mythic vault for 2 weeks now
echo cargo
if you have people who can play VDH or Prot for big dam
gusty mirage
we were thinking of adding a tank for extra cheese
echo cargo
and they can soak like 50 stacks
ya
especially with Pally, you can do decent damage, soak 40 stacks, bubble, soak 40 more stacks
gusty mirage
f it, I'm going to go ahead and just full send assa for our sunday fun run
and see how I do
I feel like I'll be pleasantly surprised
hot ingot
Hows assas doing now since the buffs? always been my favorite spec
stray ivy
hmm so pvp is the best way to gear but i dont like wow pvp, oh lord SL
balmy condor
Hows assas doing now since the buffs? always been my favorite spec
It’s competitive
drowsy hollow
easier than sub
dark hollow
since i’m headed into my first high key that i will obviously ruin as sin, is there any upper bounds on garrote/ruptures to spend before falling onto env? or is it literally dot everything endlessly until nothing will love the duration and then env?
dusky vault
Played assa for H sire prog and it felt amazing. 15th on phase 1 (lol who cares) but first in phase 3
tribal marlin
Sire phase2 feels really good as assa
strange python
current sin is really not that flash in keys but you wana bleed every mother fucker you can
tribal marlin
mobs are scattered across the room
dusky vault
Just need better daggers. Running 200 and 190 at 212 ilvl feels sad
stoic needle
Yeah I find sin to be very fun in raids in general tbh
cyan echo
can anyone link me a missing poison text WA? cant find any on wago
void pecan
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
void pecan
one of those has a rogue utilities bar
cyan echo
i just need a poison one
stoic needle
You can rip it from the pack
echo cargo
I think so
I thought it was just the Remoria quest or w/e
if not looks like I have a date with LFR
xd
strange python
yeah 1250 for the first kill in any mode
you auto get the remornia quest when you kill him
well... unless you don't loot the boss I guess
copper lotus
what tool do we get from niya this week
balmy condor
Burrs
copper lotus
its better than the potency conduit?
balmy condor
Yes
copper lotus
kk
balmy condor
Much better actually
copper lotus
gotcha
is there a way i can sim one conduit vs another
without taking two separate sims
balmy condor
Top gear
stoic needle
With top gear in raidbots
copper lotus
o
balmy condor
That’s.... a weird way to put it, but I guess, yeah
stoic needle
Or rather like a free 5cp rupture
Just comparing it to things that do similar amounts of damage
copper lotus
oh wait
balmy condor
And then select the things you want to compare
low girder
Just comparing it to things that do similar amounts of damage
it's 2-3x the dmg of sepsis
stoic needle
I don't want them to nerf it but damn it's kinda bonkers
balmy condor
Can I get the damage of burrs in an approximations of shivs per minute
iron orchid
Thanks to burrs and that 5% up, i was able to get HoA 17 and DOS 16 down with 6k+ overall (still no 226 weap)
balmy condor
Depends on how many targets
And how long you’re going it
Like p1 sire adds? Fucking awful
Sustained 5ish target? Pretty good
iron orchid
Thanks to burrs and that 5% up, i was able to get HoA 17 and DOS 16 down with 6k...
Also did ToP 16, and during those 3 keys, burrs averages between 4 and 6% of the overall dps
Seems more efficient in more AoE heavy dungeons such as DOS and HoA, in theater it was barely reaching 4%
stoic needle
Sin has absolute trash burst aoe but pretty good sustained
iron orchid
When a trap lands inside of a pack that, it appears that several enemies take the dot from burrs
copper lotus
aight i wasnt doing high keys so thats probs why
iron orchid
Did not get the amount tho
balmy condor
When a trap lands inside of a pack that, it appears that several enemies take th...
The trap is aoe, yes
iron orchid
Is it capped ?
dark hollow
what the fuck its aoe
balmy condor
Well you’ll never have the situation where it’ll hit more than 8
So pretty much irrelevant
dusky vault
Make a WA to track when burrs procs and get your tank to kite through it
balmy condor
The aoe is like 2 yards
iron orchid
It turns out pretty huge on big packs in Ardenweald in DOS
stoic needle
What about dk grip or clever LOS
iron orchid
blood DK mass grabbing
iron orchid
Probably why I got huge numbers on the dungeon then
stoic needle
Insane lmao
iron orchid
Did some raid bosses too
Topped my raid on Heroic shriekwing
6.7k on mythic altimor
stoic needle
I pumped hard on altimor
iron orchid
I guess 5% + burrs is what we needed to feel like we are pumping hard again
stoic needle
I did 5.7k @ 214
balmy condor
wait burrs is def single target wdym
It’s not
copper lotus
its single target
stoic needle
Of course it is whispyr what are you talking about
iron orchid
Don't say it too loud
balmy condor
gusty mirage
<:smh:352735817044721670>
I feel like this emote speaks from my soul
stoic needle
Dauntless duelist? Now that's some good shit
1.5% less damage taken = 1.5% more Mana for your healers
📈
fallow otter
I feel like this emote speaks from my soul
its a webcam screenshot
stoic needle
Think I might change covenants to venthyr to be a bigger team player
balmy condor
its a webcam screenshot
True
Is also one of my favorites
Cause it could be like
Listen here you little shit
fallow otter
do you has pillow cases with her on them
gusty mirage
That's the face I imagine you make when you answer my questions @balmy condor
balmy condor
do you has pillow cases with her on them
No 
gusty mirage
and I feel like it leans more "listen here you little shit"
fallow otter
No <:Sadge:760516536242274385>
time to order
balmy condor
and I feel like it leans more "listen here you little shit"
Don’t take it personal
Everyone’s a little shit
Especially me
fallow otter
whats it like having 2 poison bombs now? lol
balmy condor
I’m the littlest shit
stoic needle
Can confirm, am a shit
gusty mirage
I’m the littlest shit
stoic needle
whats it like having 2 poison bombs now? lol
It's stonks because one actually does damage
gusty mirage
I embrace being a little shit because I like to think I'm smarter than I really am
and overthink everything
fallow otter
straight after work ive only got time to get renown up on main and then straight into mythic so havent had a chance to get renown on rogue yet
keen to test
stoic needle
I need to test if it works in shiv
fallow otter
what we noticed in raid is hunter traps procing it
so hunstman adds were breaking CC
rippers
fallow otter
so careful with your saps haha
stoic needle
Oh so that's why my huntsman kill was so scuffed earlier
I hope they fix that but I'm scared for them to pay any attention to it at all
strange python
im not the greatest, but i got some decent logs so far
4.3k on shriekwing
4.5k on hungering
better than my outlaw parsess lollll
dark hollow
are folks using any addons for multidot tracking?
im sort of resigned to "nameplates" and "hopes and prayers" on big pulls, sort of on the premise that cooldowns/combo points will never have me stopping until stuff starts nearing death but idk
fleet yoke
At what point does CT become better than Poison bomb?
stray ivy
i also use weak auras and have a dot icon next to my character
and slice on dice on the other side
pliant apex
What are some of the common mistakes sin rogues make? I’m sure I’m making some of those
balmy condor
At what point does CT become better than Poison bomb?
2 target
solemn mason
DS or Zoldyck in m+ has anyone tried both yet?
balmy condor
What are some of the common mistakes sin rogues make? I’m sure I’m making some o...
holding shiv
balmy condor
DS or Zoldyck in m+ has anyone tried both yet?
what's DS?
solemn mason
what's DS?
Dashing Scoundrel
strange python
whispyr, if you had free reign to redesign the last talent row, what would you do?
balmy condor
don't craft dashing
solemn mason
that bad?
strange python
I see the word Hemo, and I already like it
solemn mason
so zold the play
balmy condor
yes
solemn mason
cool thanks
stoic needle
At what point does CT become better than Poison bomb?
2 target, but those 2 targets have to be up nearly the whole time imo
fleet yoke
Alright, thank you!
fleet yoke
if i'm primarily running m+'s, i'm assuming it becomes more and more beneficial on higher keys, but maybe not so much lower keys?
pliant apex
You only cleave (rupture/garrotte) second target when main has their dots active right ?
balmy condor
if i'm primarily running m+'s, i'm assuming it becomes more and more beneficial ...
yes
pliant apex
Not to give up dots on main target for cleave else dps loss?
stoic needle
You only cleave (rupture/garrotte) second target when main has their dots active...
Yeah, and you should try to tab mut to keep up deadly poison as well. It shouldn't be hard to keep up rupture and garotte on 2 targets with like 98% uptime
I even forget to tab mut
strange python
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qGsZILbtH5OKH-s8ZpNcFIJTW0hOffjy7UrP4KaNj4w...
I shouldn't have read this, I'm just sad this isn't real now
if you ever feel like being underpaid please go be a blizz dev, thanks
balmy condor
lmao
balmy condor
well of course
fallow otter
i hate when it gets brought up honestly
balmy condor
I'm not reinventing the wheel
fallow otter
sin last row is pathetic
dark hollow
all rogue last rows p vanilla blah
north pewter
parsing doesnt even feel good rn. there's only 328 at my ilvl
balmy condor
ilvl parsing in general isn't really relevant
strange python
i got the 26th highest parse on shriek at 216 lol
I love being sin again
feels so much better than outlaw
strange python
Nice!
strange python
sin last row is pathetic
it is, I'm not a fan of the 2nd last either tbh, it kinda just makes me mad having to look at it every time I switch between PB and CT
The end of BFA was great just being locked into CT for good
fallow otter
im torn on that one, i love doing the best dmg
so 2nd last row is sorted atm
but yeh you can say its boring
same with using CT in BFA i loved that because it added another ST thing to do
but at the same time
there is no choice
no discussion on what to use
because the other options just dont exist
stoic needle
I wish exsang was good 😫
strange python
alacrity should just be made baseline imo
dark hollow
it's extremely silly that it hasn't been made so
stoic needle
Alacrity and ct baseline kthxbye
stray ivy
delete slice and dice
tribal marlin
Echoing blade replacing Hidden blade
kinda feel like obvious change they should have done in beta
tbh
considering how EB was a big fundation of assa aoe
in bfa
buoyant mauve
bring back cut to the chase so you only have to cast snd once or just get rid of snd again
stray ivy
hidden blade lol
buoyant mauve
also overkill for that energy regen after coming out of stealth
strange python
bring back cut to the chase so you only have to cast snd once or just get rid of...
with the slightly slower playstyle back in this actually makes sense because although it's not HARD to simply use envenoms it does require input/have an interwoven mechanic
feedback loops are good loops
echo cargo
Bake in SS, baseline Hemorrhage or exsang, profit
stoic needle
I pray that they give us an extra conduit tree in 9.1 and give us all the old azerite traits and tier set bonuses and artifact powers as conduits
Let us mix and match and build our favorite version of rogue
Kingsbane cut to the chase double dose rogue? Check. Ss eb ct aoe bleed bonanza rogue? Check. Whatever you want you can make it
safe pendant
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
viscid widget
whats the go to sin lego in arena bois?
gusty mirage
Played around as assa in torghast, getting that muscle memory back feels so awkward
dusky umbra
Played around as assa in torghast, getting that muscle memory back feels so awkw...
tried it, but sub regen is just better for faster clears
dark hollow
for niya burrs, are we taking well placed steel or lethal poisons for our single potency?
graceful halo
swapping back to sin after playing outlaw for months feel so wierd. i feel like i have no energy... but i dont really need it
balmy condor
for niya burrs, are we taking well placed steel or lethal poisons for our single...
either is good, I prefer WPS
fleet yoke
So i just switched from outlaw back to sin as well, but i was running Kyrian. Is there something i should be switching too that would bring it that extra deeps or am i just fine staying Kyrian.
fleet yoke
❤️
strange python
honestly as a rogue covs make such little difference to us overall the "big brain play" is ACTUALLY choose your cov based on what your group needs the most for m+
regal chasm
Gave sin a spin in a 13. It's alright I guess but feels like more effort for less result compared to outlaw
strange python
it's really not an optimal spec in general for M+
regal chasm
If I still raided I'd probably try sin, but sub feels better for torghast and maw I guess
strange python
especially without a properly solid aoe option
sin in torgh is UNIRONICALLY BUSTED
it's ultra s tier
it feels funky on the first floor or so
but you get red ink and vein rippers, just stealth through the rest
regal chasm
I guess I'll give it a try for TC
manic harness
Question
for Shiv, we still getting full CP and energy pooling
are you guys able to fit in 3 envenoms anymore?
balmy condor
you pool a little bit of energy
pooling cp isn't really ideal
just slam it on cooldown and it's fine
manic harness
Hmm okay
I was going with the 8.3 play
Shit, even easier than I thought then
I'll probably craft Zol's tomorrow
manic harness
I know that lmao
I'm just talking about Shiv
Trying to get 3 envenom's off during window
balmy condor
you didn't pool cp or energy for tb either in 8.3
manic harness
Hmm...
manic harness
I didn't mean energy pooling in 8.3
manic harness
I'm pretty sure the play was get max cp, tb even if it overcaps, then 3x envenom while you have TB window
strange python
wasn't that just literally standing still
manic harness
but maybe that's all in my head
balmy condor
I'm pretty sure the play was get max cp, tb even if it overcaps, then 3x envenom...
not really
strange python
6k haste and you had to TRY to drop below capped lol
balmy condor
you could tb on max cp without it being a loss
but that wasn't like an optimal way to play or anything
and there's not really any like "you must get 3 envenoms in a window or you bad"
kinda thing
If you get 4 envenoms, sick
manic harness
I don't remember where I got that info, may have even been this Discord
balmy condor
If you get 2, sick
If you get 3, sick
With bad rng, it’s possible to get 2 envenoms, even with some pooling
So it’s really whatever
drowsy hollow
I know it's cause this is a fresh char and my weapons are my highest ilvl pieces, but it's silly that my white hits are 20% of my damage
regal chasm
I have to say that if SL launched with the current spec tuning I think there'd be very few sub rogues
Mostly pvpers I guess
subtle kiln
bfa tbocd @balmy condor what has this placed turned into.
drowsy hollow
38% of my damage right now is white hits and poisons. Eeek.
balmy condor
bfa tbocd <@167090536602140682> what has this placed turned into.
dunno
subtle kiln
makes me sad.
drowsy hollow
I enjoyed BfA sub, I don't know what I'm not enjoying right now about it
I did best as sub in BfA over sin and combat
strange python
the only time I ever saw sub in bfa was if it got invited to a raid pug and then immediately kicked for playing sub
manic harness
what item is pref for Zoldycks?
tribal marlin
I really enjoye outlaw 9.0 tbh
shy dust
what item is pref for Zoldycks?
Legs
drowsy hollow
I did like 20-30% better playing sub in BfA over sin and outlaw
I was weird though
I really liked sub's azerite powers
subtle kiln
because no one played it so your parses probably looked better. spec was dog shit to play and for dps. nothing has changed in SL
subtle kiln
if you couldn’t do better as assa something was terribly wrong.
buoyant mauve
so after simming burrs for myself it's actually a 100+ dps gain for me, what's the deal with bloodmallet showing lethal poisons + niya's poison in their build? is it because they assume LP is at 226 and since mine is only at 200 that burrs is better orrrr?
balmy condor
so after simming burrs for myself it's actually a 100+ dps gain for me, what's t...
they use a fight type that has interrupts
subtle kiln
wait for next tier @balmy condor assa 📈
balmy condor
drowsy hollow
oh I didn't raid or parse sub at all
subtle kiln
nah no bait
drowsy hollow
It was just the spec I got more intuitively in BfA
subtle kiln
you spammed shadow strike. that was it
drowsy hollow
I liked it haha
balmy condor
@stoic needle's favorite
drowsy hollow
I still like sub's constant shadow dance build, I just find black powder less than thrilling as an aoe finisher
manic harness
if I have 4 cp, I use finisher before using Blindside proc right?
balmy condor
yes
stoic needle
<@!502859708504342538>'s favorite
classic was like an abusive relationship
so i'm pretty sure that burrs does scale with shiv
tribal marlin
I tested and it was not @stoic needle
tribal marlin
maybe i'm dumb hey but I have tested it
balmy condor
but it definitely seemed to work
tribal marlin
idk it's supposed to show 35% increase damage
balmy condor
i've seen like 8% burrs damage
which is crazy high
and people on other specs haven't come close from what I know
tribal marlin
its does a lot of damage and scale with haste I think
shy dust
So you’ll just get some good rng
balmy condor
but I thought shiv worked
shy dust
Or bad rng
shy dust
balmy condor
the damage yeh, not the proc
tribal marlin
ye but you know every time a dot scale with haste it become good (if not broken) to anyone who have passif haste
stoic needle
yeah i think the damage increase i was seeing was from sinful and celestial procs on my weapon
tribal marlin
or active haste buff
balmy condor
I guess so
stoic needle
i did a /cancelaura celestial guidance and the damage number stayed the same with shiv
sadly
balmy condor
no interactions here 
tribal marlin
would be very strong damage if it scaled with tb
tribal marlin
some rogue start reclearing as assa
But idk I think it's only good on Sire actually
or you have a very good gear with optimal stats
stoic needle
it sucks so badly on sun king
tribal marlin
haha I think I would have played it just for that cloak early in progress
but ye sub and ol are better for that fight if you find yourself overwhelm at some point during the progression
stoic needle
that fight is just way too fucking chaotic
tribal marlin
you should play assa for Xymog as well for execute damage since p1 damage are kinda meh but sludge idk subt is probably way better.
and on council as well
darkvein is probably very nice as assa also
stoic needle
well the whole last pillar + more on sludge is execute range no?
that makes it competitive at least
tribal marlin
ye but sludge is 1mn short burst
weakness doesn't even last the entiere vendetta
hopefully you deal a large portion of the damage in tb but
stoic needle
but yeah i do well on darkvein and xymox. council is kinda hell , that's definitely a sub fight because of the funnel
charred mango
hey guys, i see that zoldyck's leggo is said to be best, but the bloodmallet says that the highest simming is dassing scoundrel?
stoic needle
i wish sub and sin gear was more compatible
dashing scoundrel only sims highest on pure single target, but at that point you're just a worse sub rogue
charred mango
ok makes sense
stoic needle
the zoldyck execute and cleave is the entire reason to play sin
tribal marlin
hey guys, i see that zoldyck's leggo is said to be best, but the bloodmallet say...
both are close, but one has AoE + Execute in
ye exactly
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
tribal marlin
I'm fine if rogue have good execute actually
at least you will be raiding if you can't do significant damage in execute phase
because otherwise there are few reason to pick a rogue in raid
They should give us tricks of the trade back
I hope they will at some point but I don't think it will happen
old tot I mean with damage amp
balmy condor
"old tot I mean with damage amp"
azure carbon
Reading is hard. -_-
pliant sorrel
can u imagine
wed simp so much harder tho
unless other rogue
trading tricks was the best
safe pendant
Sims count the execute damage from zold right?
safe pendant
I thought so
Yeah that's why I asked lol
Trying to test vs sim on dummy is hard I guess
balmy condor
Trying to test vs sim on dummy is hard I guess
there's a fight type literally called "target dummy"
safe pendant
Ohh perfect thanks
gusty mirage
@balmy condor is mystler’s guide on wowhead still a good starting point for relearning sin?
prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
any of these
tribal marlin
enemy="Fluffy_Pillow"
enemy_initial_health_percentage="40"
fixed_time="1"
max_time="180"
vary_combat_length="0"```I used that to sim sire phase 3
azure carbon
How bad is MA for Assassination?
tribal marlin
legendary ?
azure carbon
I have Finality & Celerity at R4, if I just took MA to R4 is that competitive with Zoldycks?
Ya
I kinda want R4 MA for Sub PvP and Outlaw M+.
tribal marlin
Idk I don't think it's too bad on sims
But ye execute is really nice to have on a lot of fight in nathria
balmy condor
but zold is better
azure carbon
Yeah, hero damage sims Zoldycks like 3% higher in ST and Cleave. I guess my play depends on how likely I am to play Sin.
Mileage probably varies, I imagine.
tribal marlin
There are a lot of fight were the early phase of the encounter you miss the dps requierement with correct CD usage. If a fight have a phase-wide dps check, your real "useful" dps is a lot higher when you have execute so.
azure carbon
Makes sense. Idk if I actually will ever play Sin, idk, only fight I think it likely outpaces Sub or Combat in progression is probably Denathrius, but I could be wrong on that.
I just have this weird idea that I need to be able to play all 3 specs to a purple parse. Which is kinda silly because my current guild is pretty chill, tbh.
Does Sin have DoT snapshotting? Mystlers guide says to use Rupture with Nightstalker / Master Assassin up, but I thought they removed Rupture Snapshotting? Or is it only on Sub that they removed it?
tribal marlin
Yes it's deffo a good call for sire, but sub is also good on sire
balmy condor
Does Sin have DoT snapshotting? Mystlers guide says to use Rupture with Nightsta...
nightstalker extra damage works on the full rupture
tribal marlin
is exsg still snapshoting haste as well ?
balmy condor
yes
azure carbon
Just Nightstalker? Is that a Sin thing only? Or does it snapshot Symbols / Dance too?
azure carbon
Well thats... a clear and concise design choice by blizzard that doesn't cause any confusion I'm sure. wtf.
drowsy hollow
You pump in cleave situations when you can get 3 garrotes out at the start of the pull haha
balmy condor
I personally think empowering full bleeds instead of the timer is reasonable in some cases
tribal marlin
Nightstalker works as intented : it says it buff your abilities, I do a rupture it buff my rupture
make sense
xD
azure carbon
I think snapshotting makes sense, it threw me for a loop when I came back and Rupture didn't snapshot.
But its kinda fucked that Rupture snapshots on one spec and doesn't on the other. Might as well make it a different ability if it behaves mechanically different.
drowsy hollow
It was different, but apparently some rogues felt they didn't feel like rogues using a shadow dot.
could've removed the damage amp instead of making it just rupture
azure carbon
Ok. Call it hemorrhage then.
Whatever, I guess it doesn't really matter, thats just confusing.
winter gale
After every Vanish that I use I should go Ambush?
balmy condor
depends on your talents. If you use subterfuge, you would garrote once and then just mutilate/finish as needed
if you use ma, you would mut enven mut or enven mut enven, either are fine, as long as you're using the 3 second window on instant damage
winter gale
MA*
Ok
I did reclears last night as assa, Ill stay. Im just sad that I forced so much crit/versa items so I am now a bit behind. 16% haste.
lofty yarrow
I did reclears last night as assa, Ill stay. Im just sad that I forced so much c...
Did you like assa more than outlaw ?
winter gale
Plus no loot last night. Once I grab Memory of Past Sins and that ring from Lady it will be better.
Its personal preference but yes, Assa is my favorite spec in the game.
I do outlaw in mythic+ but in raid i preffer both assa and sub over it.
Just take in consideration that what I say is biased as I wasnt performing that well as sub.
livid temple
i did a few of our heroic kills as Sin and it didnt feel to bad, im at 10% haste and yeah it does feel a little slow at times, but didnt feel bad anywhere, my stats are basically 100% sub set, ive got 30% crit, 6% haste, 37% mast and 17% versa. id love a reforger right about now....
balmy condor
blindside helps quite a bit
livid temple
that being said https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jTQbsLqpLpaQyWb6Y1c9CZ my assassination sims
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4ji4j43WCtNaWVdfKeZbMy
Arent that far behind my sub sims
not even a 300 dps difference. i can work with that
balmy condor
yeah with those extra 2 ilvl back and some stat shuffling, it would be even closer
livid temple
atm its mainly the stats that are screwing me, that an no 226 weapon. hopefully my GV will be kind and give me a ring or neck with a bunch of haste
and i should be able to upgrade my zold to 235 next reset
balmy condor
outer lodge
im at 20% haste and its showing crit simming a little higher for me atm
balmy condor
im at 20% haste and its showing crit simming a little higher for me atm
yeah that happens
haste is actually the worst stat on the bis setups
livid temple
why thank you, yeah on prog i havent been performing to well as sub, basically as soon as mechanics that stop me hitting the boss is involved my dps takes a fall down 20 flights of stairs.... so im hoping by next reset i can snag myself a few pieces of gear to pad out my sin spec
drowsy hollow
So, I finally learned that weakness does affect bosses and I'm assuming numbing does to
drowsy hollow
As a tank main I'm gonna start demanding every rogue use numbing haha
balmy condor
As a tank main I'm gonna start demanding every rogue use numbing haha
as a tank main, you should demand crippling and then kite everything to hell
that's usually how that works
but yes, numbing should work on bosses
drowsy hollow
At the very least put numbing on for every pride and boss
drowsy hollow
The prideful aoe pulse is a melee attack for whatever reason so it can be slowed
balmy condor
yeah, numbing is pretty nice
it's not quite huge
I don't think most tanks even notice
but it's something
livid temple
@outer lodge thats a pretty spicy sim
drowsy hollow
Definitely not weakness which basically cuts the damage from pride in half, but good
outer lodge
yeah not too bad.... really need my guild to start getting some mythic prog goin..
drowsy hollow
And trust me, tanks can notice 15% slower melees if they aren't kiting, especially if it's getting applied aoe
livid temple
Feels bad man, yeah gonna try and transition to sin from sub, might take me a reset or two, I don't want to actually troll my guild by coming in with garbage stats and pull no damage
sterile bane
next week another 5%
balmy condor
livid temple
Just so blizz can be the trolls we know they are next week sub will get a 10% buff XD
livid temple
I think convoke the spirits needs a buff tbh, doing 15% of their overall damage isn't enough, isn't the covenant suppose to feel meaningful?
fallow otter
wild spirits says hi
tawdry dust
I did the reclear on assa yesterday. And i am asking myself is there a good opener with subterfuge?
I think of something like: garrote, ambush garrot, slice, multi till 4+, rupture, shiv vendetta etc.
balmy condor
garrote mut snd
rich yew
@balmy condor So an opener would be: Garrote mut snd garrote mut rupture vendetta shiv scepsis?
viscid umbra
This opener from IV is still accurate, right?
balmy condor
marble hemlock
Wondering whether there's a difference between waiting for garrote to run out before vanishing or just vanishing sometime within pandemic window
And casting it once
I doubt delaying vanish until pandemic of a non subterfuge garrote like 30sec into the pull would be worth
balmy condor
yeh, that's not worth
marble hemlock
On deny I've just vanished within pandemic of the opener garr
That first snd with the subter opener, i have that at 4+ but that's incorrect as well iirc, right? @balmy condor
You just do 3+ there to get rup up asap
Correct me if I'm wrong though
balmy condor
not sure tbh
balmy condor
I can double check the opener stuff
marble hemlock
Would be swell
Like 3+ vs 4+ in opener, 3+ should get first shiv Out sooner and more likely to be 3 envenoms as you go into shiv with more energy when you don't cast extra muts
balmy condor
yeah
opener logic is a pain in the ass to check because it's such a small part
but I'll look into it
balmy condor
probably fine
misty hemlock
Point 11. can be removed from subterfuge opener too right? Like it's already 4+ cp and shiv from 9. and 10.
Or am i missing smt
balmy condor
it's just doubling up from the 4 cp on 9
mut shiv alone could get you to 4
but it could also land you on 3 with bad crit
misty hemlock
Yes, but then it shouldn't say "until 4+ cp" in 9., as this implies to use mutilate as often as it takes to get to 4+, at least that's how i would understand it if i didn't know any bettee
balmy condor
yeh
misty hemlock
@marble hemlock :)
marble hemlock
Yeah, needs to be until 3+ cp
misty hemlock
Maybe just remove the until 4+
feral basin
Gents - I ws gunna ask a question about this opener stuff this morning actually after the raid last night, so glad its came up