assassination

[balmy condor]

that's what I'm here for

I would say that's why they pay me the big bucks for being a green

but we don't get paid

[lean geyser]

Lmfaoo

[white tide]

😄

[royal lantern]

green name is the RH version of a callcenter worker

[balmy condor]

yeah pretty much

[royal lantern]

whisp has a indian accent now

[balmy condor]

but I fake a really good californian accent

trust

when I turn facecam on during stream it's actually a hololive of a white college student

[lucid stirrup]

are we good in arena/rbg yet? 😄

[silk wadi]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[halcyon grail]

People complaining about Flagellation didn't understand Coral and its usage or get it to drop. #changemymind

[plain thistle]

yeah, except coral wasnt on the gcd, while flag has 2 gcds

=/

[lean geyser]

What about for pvp I see the stat priority that vers is last but don’t you need that?

[plain thistle]

for assa you want versa and haste, you need versa to play pvp

otherwise goodluck surviving anything

[halcyon grail]

@plain thistle but so were literally all our pots trinkets and damage cooldowns before SL. So are we behind or up?

when that Sub rogue pops SB, SoD, SD, Pot and Trinket with one keypress.

[balmy condor]

Potion and trinkets were never on gcd

Also helps that sub is the class that has cooldowns

Sod and dance being off gcd is required for that spec to work

Blades was on the gcd Just like vendetta was, and they both got taken off

So I’m not sure what the point of that argument is

[copper lotus]

what food should be eaten

for sin

[plain thistle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[raven egret]

fuud

[oak trout]

are there any venthyr rogues? how is it like?

[carmine sierra]

On raid it feels nice but in m+ it feels pretty ass

@oak trout

[stoic needle]

Shit

It's terrible

[oak trout]

really not fancying going night fae

[carmine sierra]

You can go kyrian

[stoic needle]

Venthyr is worse in every way especially as sin

You can't get max flag stacks as sin in current gear levels and thrill seeker is kinda dogshit

The proc isn't controllable and will get wasted more often than I was comfortable with because of mechanics

[oak trout]

well then

[stoic needle]

Door of shadows is just a worse soulshape

[oak trout]

thanks blizzard for making the most fit theme for rogues terrible kekw

[stoic needle]

Draven basically isn't even a soulbind

Dude I fucking know right?

[carmine sierra]

Yeah went with venthyr because I thought they were the coolest but ugh it felt so bad

[oak trout]

it's just i already have kyrian ret, and wanted to have a character for every covenant, but oh well, i guess i'll go kyrian again

[stoic needle]

Try out night fae

It's really good

If they rework covenants in 9.1 and venthyr is good again I'd go back in a heartbeat

[oak trout]

"x" doubt meme

[iron orchid]

I guess the main problem with venthyr is the lack of good soulbinds

[silk wadi]

!Wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[iron orchid]

what makes fae work so well is Niya

and Korayn

for M+

But the ability in itself is not really doing much and is not even that fun to play with

[stoic needle]

Yep

[lost igloo]

I’m sticking with venthyr. Living for those moments where thrill seeker lines up with near max flagellation stacks

[stoic needle]

Venthyr's ability is bad but the soulbinds are also bad

There's just nothing good about it. Half the time nadjia is like having no soulbind at all

[carmine sierra]

Wish they made more of a focus towards the ability and less for passives in the tree. All covenantabilities just feel meh

[stoic needle]

They need to make thrill seeker activate on flagellation use

[carmine sierra]

Kyrian I'm kind of enjoying atleast

but not as cool as druid convoke

[lost igloo]

Isn’t Nadia pretty close to nyah after next week?

[stoic needle]

On a sim

But when thrill seeker procs and then you get the danse macabre or any of the other 59 million mechanics in the expansion then all you have is dauntless duelist

For the next minute or so

It's just bad

I would honestly say that theotar is better than nadjia because you can actually benefit from soothing shade more reliably than thrill seeker

Especially since the dps difference is so small

[stoic needle]

I really like the extra garotte silence or free cheap shot in m+ though

[iron orchid]

Yeah, that's the only good part, you probably cannot mess up your cast of sepsis :
-If you kill the add, you can get that mastery bonus up 30 seconds earlier
-If you do not, you get one free control

[grim canopy]

rank Sin in m+ after the buff tomarrow

from 0-10

[stoic needle]

Well if 10 is boomkin it's about a 6

[grim canopy]

what specs are worse than sin for m+

[rugged dragon]

Like, fury warr or smthing

[stoic needle]

Fury is actually better in terms of dps

[grim canopy]

maybe ele sham?

[stoic needle]

Worse would be arcane mage, frost mage, frost DK possibly? Bm hunter, sv hunter, ret paladin possibly?

Idk about feral druid or enh sham

Uh

[grim canopy]

Arms?

[stoic needle]

Arms is still pretty decent

Warrior is on par with rogue I'd say, more damage but less utility

[snow forge]

did anyone switch covenant recently and knows how good/bad the catchup is?

[stoic needle]

It's not bad

[snow forge]

kinda wanna swap, but dont wanna gimp on raiddays

[rugged dragon]

I did switch like 4 days ago, or 3 and im 17 now?

[snow forge]

like 4 days between raids should be enough to catch up?

[rugged dragon]

And I didnt even put actual effort into grinding rep

[stoic needle]

I caught up in one week of maxing the vault out for each activity

[rugged dragon]

grinding renown*

[snow forge]

catchup is so intransparent its just annoying not to know what gives renown

[stoic needle]

Just make sure to do your covenant campaign ASAP so you don't miss any potential catch-up

Save your anima and souls quest for last

[rugged dragon]

Yeah, campaign main thing.

[snow forge]

does it make more sense to to the swap on reset? to get guaranteed renown from worldboss for example

and probably normal/heroic CN

[stoic needle]

Yes

[snow forge]

oof, guess its goodbye venthyr hello faerieland

[stoic needle]

Swap now if you're gonna do any keys or bgs today

It sucks but it's worth it

I went up literally like 300 dps going from venthyr to nf

[snow forge]

i simmed the dps difference for sin/otl and difference is really not big, but flag just sucks to use with the double pressing

[stoic needle]

There sim dps wasn't a big difference but it was more in practice

[snow forge]

yeah i guess

i mean sepsis interacts way better with sin, and is just "fire and forget"

and flag you use lose all benefit if you fuck up

the gcd kills me everytime

[stoic needle]

When you start using soulshape you will be pissed at how much better it is than door

[snow forge]

i am NF on my hunter and like soulshape already

i also kinda liked doors but i mean, moving and INSTANT teleport is way better than casting and porting xd

[stoic needle]

Yeah

Door should have like a .5 cast time

[shrewd helm]

I have been kyrian/necro/ and now night fae. The catchup isn’t bad at all.

[snow forge]

or cast while moving

[stoic needle]

1.5 is to long

[snow forge]

and flag reactivation of gcd x-d

[stoic needle]

Yeah I went from necro to venthyr to NF

The thing that kills me about flag is that it's 2 gcds, 40 energy that sin can't really spare, and does no dmg and the haste buff is only 20s

No combo points

[snow forge]

and nort getting the max stacks most of the time

[spice spire]

And you can use movement ability during fights unlike door

[stoic needle]

Trying to use door to dodge mechanics gets me hit with them more often than it saved me

[snow forge]

ok swap incoming on reset, cheers for reassuring 😄

[spice spire]

I was able to use it on p1 of denathrius that’s it

Yeah definitely recommend the swap, king.

[stoic needle]

Objectively the worst part about nf is the leather mog

[whole cypress]

zoldyck on pants or boots?

[raven egret]

and furry rp

[stoic needle]

I thought I wouldn't like the wild hunt but they're kinda badass

[snow forge]

not using covenant mog anyways

i thought i would thats why i also chose venthyr

[raven egret]

zoldyck is for legs

[stoic needle]

The venthyr one was so good tho

[snow forge]

i actually enjoyed the NF campaign on hunter, faeries are actually quite badass

[stoic needle]

Rip blade cape

[snow forge]

didnt even have blade cape yet, so whatever

and if they buff vampires in 9.1. (as if) just swap back 😄

[oak trout]

that's a lot of "if" coming from people

[stoic needle]

Please god

[snow forge]

what they probably do is butcher covenants so much, it really wont matter what you play <.<

[stoic needle]

That's what they already did lmao

[coral imp]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

The only reason it really matters now is because venthyr is just that poorly designed

Numbers wise it's not that huge

[spice spire]

Vampire papis one time

[stoic needle]

I miss my gargoyle gf Chelra

[spice spire]

I miss my thicc mama Nadjia. At least I was getting screwed while using her

[high nacelle]

how many targets are with FoKing on?

[stoic needle]

3

[raven egret]

fok fok

[high nacelle]

cool, thanks

[rugged dragon]

FoK?

[stoic needle]

Fan of dissappointment knives

[rugged dragon]

Phh

Ohh*

[daring pecan]

Fan of 1 CP

[stoic needle]

[dim mirage]

ambush from sepsis worth using?

[stoic needle]

Nope

[dim mirage]

figured

[stoic needle]

I do it in pvp but that's about it

[grave cove]

Wait does the pseudo stealth from Sepsis buff garrote??

[steel ridge]

Kyrian set looks ass

[stoic needle]

You only get the silence but not the subterfuge damage bonus

It's better than the night fae one at least

[grave cove]

Ah ok, so just mutilate out of sepsis then

[stoic needle]

Just hide the helm and it's ok

Yeah, garotte and cheap shot are nice in m+ for cc as well

[gloomy stone]

I think about rerolling just for necrolord transmog set

[stoic needle]

That's the single ugliest transmog in the entire game

[gloomy stone]

Fits my gnome

[stoic needle]

Gnomes

[uneven summit]

what then?

[stoic needle]

You ignore it and mutilate

Or use garotte\cs in m+ to kick

[gloomy stone]

Care to explain why sepsis ambush is not worth it? I think it is what herrotation by @surreal torrent suggests

[stoic needle]

Mutilate generates more CP than ambush, and ambush doesn't do enough damage to justify the energy cost

[uneven summit]

But if that´s so, why is blindside best on ST rather than elaborate?

[signal gulch]

its free ambush

[limber lion]

Because you get free procs

[spice spire]

It’s free my guy

[limber lion]

If we still had 8.3 levels of haste, using Ambush would probably be worth it. But we don't.

[spice spire]

Elaborate will eventually be better but blind side is definitely it on this tier. It just covers up some of the slower moments of sin

[uneven summit]

aight

looking forward to seeing assa numbers on with next reset, im having trouble finding the hate after having sub gear so far this tier

[limber lion]

I've got 235 legendaries for Sub, but I'm doing a full switch to Assa if the numbers match. And so far they're looking pretty damn good.

[uneven summit]

same dood, same

[feral basin]

Feels really good in the downtime to get the ambush procs from blindside

[limber lion]

Good thing they share weapons/trinkets. Still rocking a 207 axe on my outlaw

[stoic needle]

I just got up to 215 ilvl from 208 in 1 week of pvp

[feral basin]

Wait what...

[limber lion]

I feel like I'm behind and I'm 223 ilvl

[stoic needle]

I pugged bgs to 1600

[feral basin]

I'm stuck 205/207 ilvl

[stoic needle]

Replaced all my 200 ilvl gear with 213

And I have a few 220 pieces from the vault from previous weeks

[feral basin]

As till got a 197 helm and shoulders

[stoic needle]

Do RBGs man

[feral basin]

I've still*

They hard to get into through the premade?

[stoic needle]

Every group wants a rogue

[iron orchid]

Meanwhile, I feel so rewarded pushing 20 15 + keys a week to get 210 ilvl items

[stoic needle]

Avoid yolo groups at all costs

[feral basin]

I've literally done zero pvp other than arena for the conquest to buy 200 daggers

[limber lion]

With the conquest cap being so high, you can easily get 4-5 items if you play until it's capped.

If you hit Rival you'll be decked out in 220 gear in no time.

[stoic needle]

Yep

[feral basin]

This...

[iron orchid]

But

wednesday

[feral basin]

What rating is Rival?

[iron orchid]

Maybe

[stoic needle]

I need to work on my logs to apply to a new guild so I'm gonna take a break for a few days and then try to hit 1800

[feral basin]

I've got some 220 stuff for vault

[stoic needle]

Rival is 1800

[feral basin]

But trying to get those 15s

[stoic needle]

I need to do a 12 key today

[feral basin]

Gif mount

[stoic needle]

Maybe I can do a 15 with my gear

[grim canopy]

will people invite assasin for 12

[stoic needle]

Yes

[feral basin]

I do pugs as sin to practice

[stoic needle]

They don't pay attention to my spec

[feral basin]

But play outlaw with guild groups

[stoic needle]

My rio is decent enough

[iron orchid]

If i don't get a 220+ weapon before my raid on wednesday evening, I'll do PvP

[uneven summit]

wait.. still talking rbgs or?

[feral basin]

Full Rogue group , let's go

[feral basin]

Ah, sorry for keys mate

Although I've done some pvp as outlaw

[open swift]

I do not see why this is a bad idea

[feral basin]

[dense hamlet]

wait ppl do pvp as outlaw?

[uneven summit]

#SinRising

[feral basin]

It's kinda troll but in 3s the cleave isn't bad at all

[stoic needle]

to the moon

[dense hamlet]

yeah ik in 2s u will get smacked

[stoic needle]

Guy got 1800 in 2s as outlaw

[dense hamlet]

its possible

u can run with pala

[stoic needle]

Absolute madman

Yeah with a paladin

[dense hamlet]

its like assas

ucan kill in a ks

and u have less vanish cd and blind cd

[grim canopy]

for rated BGs, sub or sin

[dense hamlet]

so yeah if u live u can win

[stoic needle]

Dismantle and plunder armor actually obliterates warriors

Disarm and armor reduc

[limber lion]

Sub today, Assa come wednesday

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats goodawell

[grim canopy]

nice

[stoic needle]

I mean sub is objectively better

But sin works

[uneven summit]

I play sub in both arena and rbgs, but it just doesn´t feel as strong after the nerf obviously

[limber lion]

Sub is more of a control character, not necessarily a galactic dps topper

[stoic needle]

Sin can actually do work in teamfights with heals like a ghetto warrior

[limber lion]

You set up kills for your mage

[stoic needle]

But it's a totally different playstyle

[grim canopy]

so as sin in rgb, i gotta defend flags still?

[stoic needle]

Yes

You will do that no matter what as a rogue

[gusty mirage]

Rbgs as a rogue is primo “catch up on Netflix” time

[dense hamlet]

i mean u will never teamfight either u def or u sneak a cap

[stoic needle]

And you can do it fine just not as well as a sub rogue. The base rogue kit is more than sufficient

[dense hamlet]

rogue is so bad at teamfighting its crazy

[uneven summit]

as a rogue you´re basically a nuisance, slowing people by sapping, ninja capping and defending

[stoic needle]

Idk sin rogue is actually pretty decent in teamfight

[dense hamlet]

yeah sin is diffrant u can garrote ppl

but with sub

[stoic needle]

You multidot and secure kills with kidney

[dense hamlet]

if u spend like 3 cs globals

[stoic needle]

Internal bleeding does a lot of dmg

[dense hamlet]

u dont do dmg cuz ur Ma window is over

[stoic needle]

And u get big dick envenoms with doomblade

[dense hamlet]

yeah i wish assas had abit more baseline

[stoic needle]

I saw many many 11k+ envenoms y'day going to 1600

[dense hamlet]

and it would be good

[uneven summit]

Zoldyck still go to for mythic raiding yea?

[stoic needle]

Yes

The only option frankly

[feral basin]

Sin has really good pressure

With the ticking dmg

[uneven summit]

Im crafting on wednesday, but my problem is, i have 213 boots and 226 pants 😛

[stoic needle]

I garrotte and rupture every healer

And MFD kidney the kill targets

[dense hamlet]

i tryed septic shock in a vendetta and shiv window

and it was hitting for 25k

[stoic needle]

Dude it's huge right?

[dense hamlet]

it seems good

[feral basin]

You running the talent for bleed on kidney

@stoic needle

[stoic needle]

Yeah you need the energy

And the bleed buffs doomblade envenom

I wish assasa could get lethal and wound poison at the same time

That would be sick

It would make the pressure even better

[dense hamlet]

u like dont even need to sit stealth for it to do dmg u can vanish and like 5 sec of it will crit with ur dots if u wait 1 sec in stleath to open

[stoic needle]

If you have a warrior for MS you can get away with deadly poison and it increases your damage by quite a bit

[dense hamlet]

that works with a ww aswell

cuz u doint need healing reduc always

u need it on the go

and ww has mortal wounds on RSk

[stoic needle]

I wish I'd kept track of the doomblade envs more yesterday

To see how big they actually are on average

But it's definitely noticeable

[gusty mirage]

I’m saving up soul ash to craft zoldyk and doomblade. Im going to probably full send back home to assa

[stoic needle]

[dense hamlet]

yuppp sinners rising

[gusty mirage]

Hanging up the pirate costume

[stoic needle]

This Tues and next are gonna be big mclargehuge for sin, burrs and 5% on Tuesday and then first strike next Tuesday

[dense hamlet]

i actually was gonna try to swap to venthyr

for the haste

to play assas

• the transmog is sick

[stoic needle]

You will regret it

[dense hamlet]

• im a simp for denathrius

why

[stoic needle]

Venthyr is the worst covenant

[gusty mirage]

Flagellation is butt cheeks dude

Trust me

[stoic needle]

You can't get max flag stacks as sin

You literally can't generate enough CP

[dense hamlet]

i mean its not that behind from others

[stoic needle]

And thrill seeker procs during mechanics and downtime more than it does on the bosses

So it sims well but plays like ass because you can't control it

[uneven summit]

whats like minimum haste for assa to be viable right now?

[stoic needle]

Theotar is literally more consistent than nadjia

[dense hamlet]

50%

[uneven summit]

nice, ill get right on that bro

[stoic needle]

Because his activates on an ability instead of just randomly

[dense hamlet]

XD

i think u can play assas with about 18% if u want it to be smoother

[uneven summit]

timemachine to expedient

[stoic needle]

There is no minimum %, it works fine with any, but it didn't start 'feeling' smooth until like 15

[dense hamlet]

and higher is the better

yeah

[uneven summit]

i think im at like 12% or so from my sub gear, but im working on atleast one more haste piece just to up that shit

[dense hamlet]

its the feeling u have with lacking the gcds cuz u run out of energy

[stoic needle]

It's really just a mental thing because when your haste is that low you will just crit more and your stuff will hit harder because of the other stats

[gusty mirage]

Only corruption I miss are the stat corruptions, stack severe, versatile + crit dam for m+ for juicy echoing blades damage

[dense hamlet]

i miss the tentacles

[uneven summit]

full expedient crimson tempest was fun to some extend

[dense hamlet]

i stacked like 5 of them and when it poped i would cc everything and it would do milion dmg

[stoic needle]

Im just saying djavad, all of the regular sin players switched away from venthyr for a reason

I thought it would be good too and I loved the transmog but it's just completely shit

[dense hamlet]

i wanna siwtch to venthyr

[gusty mirage]

Add on top of that that flag is useless in pvp as well

[stoic needle]

I'm telling you you will regret it

[dense hamlet]

hmm

[stoic needle]

It's far and away the worst

[uneven summit]

#TeamFae

[spice spire]

Don’t do it brøther

Trust me

[gusty mirage]

I’m a reformed vampire boy

[dense hamlet]

thats my problem is the transmogs worth?

[gusty mirage]

I was renown 26 when I switched

[dense hamlet]

my mind says ofc its worth

[stoic needle]

It's messed up they don't let you test the skills anymore

[spice spire]

It’s so good

[stoic needle]

The transmog is not worth

The fucking blade cape clips through the covenant shoulders!!!!

[spice spire]

But the covenant is so bad it ends up not being worth

[stoic needle]

The entire reason they float is so that they don't clip through shit

And they still clip the shoulders

It's just sloppy

[spice spire]

Stay strong 乃尺ㄖㄒ卄乇尺

[stoic needle]

I'd literally rather go back to necrolord than venthyr at this point

And that says a lot

[dense hamlet]

i mean i will do if its like end of the tier and im done with everything

[spice spire]

I mean sure

You can come back at same renown

Plus the bonus of extra mounts

Makes perfect sense

[dense hamlet]

is the siwtching thing not have a cap?

like u can siwtch 100 times

[stoic needle]

Just pray for buffs in 9.1 like the rest of us vampire refugees

[dense hamlet]

i was worried they might tell me bro gtfo man wdym

[random fossil]

im having fun with venthyr man and the mog is worth, live ur life

[spice spire]

It’s fun until you tear the parse brother

[stoic needle]

It's fun until you try to be even remotely competitive

Shit in m+, shit in raids, shit in pvp

[random fossil]

if u wanna be remotely competitive why are you playing assa?

[stoic needle]

The only thing you get is a good outfit

Cuz assassa is competitive now?

You can play any spec and try to be competitive with it

[spice spire]

I outdps the other two rogues in our group and they’re outlaw, but that’s more than just spec

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats asking the question do they have theyr monitor on?

are they using keyboards

[stoic needle]

[uneven summit]

you dont need monitor or keyboard for outlaw

[dense hamlet]

i mean if u cant see it u cant hurt iot

its a fact

[uneven summit]

outlaw players are ostriches, i get it

[dense hamlet]

xd

[spice spire]

Listen dog, I’m not here to flame. I’m just saying, it’s doable!

[dense hamlet]

man they should give assas 10%more haste baseline

nah it is doable

[spice spire]

To be semi competitive***

[uneven summit]

For night fae, Niya is strongest for assa right?

[dense hamlet]

yep

[uneven summit]

was thinking the haste buff from dreamweaver could be worth

but burrs op i guess

[dense hamlet]

i mean u get mastery from niya

and mastery and burrs are just better

[spice spire]

Yeah it’s the combination of the two, though the fields sim lower than both singularly. So I guess it doesn’t proc that often?

[dense hamlet]

i wonder how much does it differ

losing 1 potency

for burrns

[uneven summit]

burrs are generally stronger than the 2x potency as far as i´ve seen on the sims. I tested it for sub at least

[dense hamlet]

i mean yeah sub conduits dont do much

but for assas

the lethal poison one does good aswell i think

[uneven summit]

ill sim for both on wednesday, but i still think burrs is better

[dense hamlet]

yeah i wonder if they nerf it

if they do

thats fucked up

[uneven summit]

i just have the issue of zoldycks.. i have 213 crit/vers boots, and there are only 2 boots from m+, and 226 haste legs, like i should make it on legs for the extra agi, but with my current items it´s not better at all

[gusty mirage]

I’m struggling with the same thing, I have 226 haste vers pants and 213 crit/vers boots. Was leaning toward crafting it on boots because my haste isn’t the greatest lol

[iron orchid]

You can craft zoldyck on boots tho

[spice spire]

Crafting on boots is fine

[iron orchid]

that's not a huge loss

[uneven summit]

i guess, if i dont get boots in chest on wednesday ill craft on boots

[spice spire]

The baseline for pants is higher stat cap, so if you have 200s, yeah do pants. But if it’s 213 vs 226 pants, just change boots

A guide is just that, it’s not gospel. There’s always exceptions 🙂

[gusty mirage]

I legitimately can’t wait to come back to assa

[uneven summit]

same dude

i just hope it´ll hold in mythic raiding.. 5% should be enough, but i guess we won´t know untill we actually see some sins in top 100 :p

[stoic needle]

Personally I wouldn't craft zoldyck on boots because what about in later patches if we get to use 2 legendaries, and then you're stuck using dashing on cape?

It's not a loss now but I bet you'll regret it later

[strange python]

crafting zold on boots is what you SHOULD do

[stoic needle]

Por que

[spice spire]

Just craft on both EZZZZZZZ

[strange python]

it's the best slot to craft them in

[spice spire]

That’s cap

[uneven summit]

lot of statements with no backup

what he meant by por que was; ELABORATE POR FOR VOR

[strange python]

there's a lot of backup for crafting in the boots

it's literally in the pins

it's in the guides

its in the tc research channel

it's from the greens

it's common knowledge

[stoic needle]

[uneven summit]

"This legendary power can be crafted onto either the Feet or Leg slot. You should definitely craft it on the Legs slot, if possible, since it is one of the three highest item-budget item slots (together with your chest and helmet)." first guide

[stoic needle]

The pins say that septic shock and reverb and bone fractures are better than LP for m+ so

[strange python]

realistically any which way you go for any leggo crafting really isn't a big difference in the end

it all just depends on availability of loot

and whats' best in the opposing slots

the item budget isn't as big of a deal as was originally thought because what really matters is the delta betwen the 2 options

which is markedly small

[stoic needle]

Dashing cape is pretty shit compared to boots

Cape has like zero stats

[spice spire]

It’s the reason you often choose ring on Master Assassin. Which is covered. But to say boots is the right option is a bit far

[strange python]

so in the end the "best option" tends to be simply based on whats available elsewhere

there are particularly good legs

there aren't as good boots

ALTHOUGH

if you wanted to just BUY boots

[spice spire]

Boots is the right option for the fellows above though.

[strange python]

you could do that quite well

[stoic needle]

I mean who's to say if you're gonna get those legs

You can't guarantee shit in this game unless it's pvp gear atm

And legendaries

[strange python]

it's the same thing say for peeps with finality

"best is chest"

but WHY

it's not because "more stats"

at all

[stoic needle]

So getting a guaranteed mythic legs equivalent is good in my book

[strange python]

it's because of the potential of a higher level cape from mythic slg

if youre never seeing them

then it's much of a muchness

[stoic needle]

Yeah but who tf is killing mythic slg LMAO

[strange python]

me

[stoic needle]

Meanwhile I just gquit this week

[slim sable]

lol same

[stoic needle]

Maybe some 3/10m guild will take me after the buff to help them kill whatever boss they're wiping on

[strange python]

point being, unless you were planning on buying the 226 boots, then craft boots

if you ARE buying them

then craft legs

alternatively think further in the future

and craft boots / legs (zold / dashing)

so that we might be able to combine them

[slim sable]

am i wrong or are there no good necks for us? 😄

[strange python]

although zold/doom will probs end up better if the bleed is effected

there is

sin stained

or just really anything as far as sin goes tbh

there aren't really BAD sin stats

[slim sable]

but there are no crit/haste necks 😦

[spice spire]

Mastery is close to bad. But all stats are fine to have. Just pump that agility brøther

[strange python]

so?

[weak robin]

there is only 1 neck without mastery and it is crit versa from spires, rest has mastery

[strange python]

it's not like you DON'T WANT mastery or vers

you DO

[stoic needle]

Sin stained necklace has been giga for me

[spice spire]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

I got a 220 from the vault and it's one of the biggest dps upgrades I've gotten

There's haste vers from pvp aswell

[strange python]

note in whispyrs bis btw

he has tthe boots crafted

[spice spire]

For dashing..

[strange python]

for either is a solid option

because the chosen stat weights are still the same

your dleta differrence regardless will end up being like MAYBE 10 dps

but your optoins are solid

again

[stoic needle]

I think it's better to think of the future possibilities rather than your current gear when crafting something as permanent as a legendary

[strange python]

unless you're going to BUY the 226 boots

[stoic needle]

Cuz you can always pvp to get 226 boots, or buy the boe boots, or pray to God you get them in raid

[strange python]

or you could do the same with any other slot

it's more about the available pieces

I'd personally just buy the boots if I didn't already have them

because in the future should we ever be able to combine the leggos you could do so

and tbh I'm lazy

delta difference is fucking minimal though so what you SHOULD do is based on what you're geared for NOW

if your boots are lacking, make the boots

people stress about this shit and covenants way too much

no need

you got dudes doing 23+ keys with shoulder celerity

like who cares

[spice spire]

Differing statement from above

[strange python]

for him

he said his boots were lacking

226 vs 213

[spice spire]

But also you’re supposed to do shoulder of celerity, are you not?

[strange python]

easy option

no

ring

ring when it's an option is pretty much always the way to go

but that's a different thing altogether

in that case there actually is a solid choice

[spice spire]

Ahhh I see because they’re less abundant for specifics, sure. Both our outlaws went shoulders for stat cap reasons which made me ???

And I see, the absolution tripped me up there.

[strange python]

yeah but also because when a ring is an option because there's no main stat on it by comparison to the other slot...

it means taht yoru worst ring is going to impact you MORE than your worst armor piece

so wearing "poorly stated" shoulders isn't as bad for you as a poorly stated ring

if that makes sense

also because yeah, the ability to craft specific secondaries at a rings level of them is pretty fat

personally I wish all of them could be crafted on rings lol

[frozen jasper]

wouldnt it be most balanced if every legy in the game was just rings lol

like no other options available

[strange python]

probably not

and it owuldn't be very interesting

[frozen jasper]

fair

[strange python]

but it would be good 😛

[oak trout]

i'm either dumb it this Echoing Reprimand works just how it wants

sometimes it adds the combo point to the closest after usual combo points, sometimes farther

[sick scarab]

i have a super question that always bother me.. on tyrannical you runo MA legendary or always zoldick ?

[oak trout]

example if i have 2 CP and use ER the blue combo point might be third or might be fourth

[strange python]

MA leggo doesn't lose value based on week

it loses value based on group, and pathing

[frozen jasper]

personally id run zoldyck espacially in tyrannical weeks cause the execute on tyrannical bosses gives more value imo

[strange python]

hell there are rogues who run outlaw with MA in 20+

on tyranical weeks

it's not a weekly thing

it depends on your group and if you can obtain consistent resets

if you CAN optimise MA it's a good leggo

or if you're in necrotic wake

then it's a must have

[slim sable]

is there a haste amount we should aim for so it feels nice play?

[frozen jasper]

i don't know if there is an actual threshhold but im at 23 right now and it feels alright

[spice spire]

No. Agility is king, haste crit and vers are all good stats. Just best to sim gear as you get it

[strange python]

atm sin is just a slow boomer spec in general, it's not like you're going to make it feel smooth at any point with the stats we have available in slands at all tbh

just sim it up, go with what it says, thats the haste you should have

[slim sable]

im sitting at 1k vers might need to change some things 😄

[iron orchid]

Sin feels great when you get to about 15% haste, even better when you get to 20% +

I have about 600 crit 650 haste, 450 vers, 120 mast

28%/20%/11%/19%

[strange python]

most of my sin gear atm is makeshift from my outlaw gear

so I have tons of vers too

[slim sable]

yeah same

[strange python]

which is fine, not optimal

but fine

[tender fjord]

can someone tell me why everybody preaches to open with mutilate over ambush?

my ambush crits for 4k, my mutilate crits for 3.2k

[strange python]

it's in tc research

[tender fjord]

tc?

[strange python]

basically ambush is only worth using when you proc blindside

otherwise meh

[storm onyx]

With mutilate you may get 4 cps

Which is more energy efficient

[stoic needle]

The damage difference between ambush and mutilate is not enough to justify losing out on the 1 extra cp from a double muti crit

Also sin feels amazing with 20+ haste

[storm onyx]

That

[strange python]

yeah

it's just more efficient outside of the proc

[storm onyx]

I am at 25% haste, its butter smooth

[tender fjord]

didnt notice the 1cp difference earlier, now i do! thanks!

[strange python]

but not margarine smooth?

terrible

[storm onyx]

Ahah

Margarine clogs in the system anyway )

[stoic needle]

I gotta say I don't get what people mean when they say sin is clunky

Maybe compared to bfa sin but I didn't play that

[grizzled jay]

Who are these "people"

Rarely have I seen this opinion

[gusty mirage]

I don’t think the word clunky has been used, more like snd added another plate to spin on top of the bleeds which is fair. It’s mostly an issue in m+ if you’re trying to get full pandemic on everything, it makes it feel like a chore

But I definitely wouldn’t use the word clunky

[grizzled jay]

Oh for sure SnD on Sin feels like....why is it even there. So they slapped energy regen onto it and called it a day.

[north pewter]

It definitely took me a while to remember to throw it in my rotation consistently

I'm gonna be honest, it doesnt feel any different lol

[stoic needle]

Man

[grizzled jay]

I like Sin, and maybe this is just me, but compared to Outlaw and Sub it feels arhaic

[north pewter]

I mean, I play sin because I like it. I'm just your like average player doing average M+ content who may get into the first few bosses of mythic but I'm not going for CE or anything.

[stoic needle]

A lot of people who don't play sin come in here and say it feels clunky

I'm not making this up lol

[north pewter]

But honestly, like. If you know how to play sin, really understand how to play it, it's smooth af and super easy

[stoic needle]

Agreed

I think it's people just getting overwhelmed with or disliking the number of plates to spin

The worst part of SnD imo is how it affects the damage profile, shifting it into white hits which aren't 'noticeable' because they happen automatically and it doesn't 'feel' like you're doing anything to get that damage

Even though getting good white melee uptime with all of these mechanics isn't easy

[grizzled jay]

I think it's fine to have melee up there in dmg but it's definitely too much rn.

Have like 6 or 7k ash so I'm waiting on a good dagger to try Sin

[sick scarab]

blizz are just dumb.. they give us aura buff..

[gusty mirage]

😂 I feel like people just use that word because they don’t like pooling

[sick scarab]

that is not what we need.. or better it is better than nothing but it is playwise we nmed some adjustemnt

at least it is what i think

[gusty mirage]

Sin needed an aura buff, but you’re right sim could use some adjustments as well

[stoic needle]

I mean aura buffs are exactly the way that we get melee to be less of our damage and dots to be more

I think they should be more directed than a flat 5 to everything

Like

25% to bleeds specifically

[grizzled jay]

I wouldn't mind a more core rotational change to sin as it feels the same xpac to xpac for a few too many years

[stoic needle]

Leave poisons alone

Maybe buff envenom a bit

[gusty mirage]

All adjustments that make it “feel better” (for the lack of a better term), would be moot because damage was objectively worse than outlaw and sub

[stoic needle]

But deadly and instant poison are fine and do huge damage proportionally

[gusty mirage]

The aura buffs were very much needed, and I’m grateful for it

[stoic needle]

Imagine in 9.1 they give us some new conduits

25% poison damage, 25% bleed damage, 10% envenom damage and crit chance

So you can make a build however you like

[sick scarab]

we should have some snd passive thing to make us more smooth

rlike premeditation talend in sub

[stoic needle]

I don't agree with that

[sick scarab]

snd make us clunky as fuck

[stoic needle]

Then our rotation just becomes even more boring

[sick scarab]

imho

[stoic needle]

Nah man

[sick scarab]

well assa is managing things.. we spam mut etc

[stoic needle]

I get 98%+ uptime on rupture, snd and garotte

[sick scarab]

snd just make it mhe..

[stoic needle]

It's not clunky at all

[gusty mirage]

Having envenom refresh snd would be nice, but that’s mostly a QoL thing for m+ IMO because less buttons in raid would be zzzzz

[sick scarab]

for me it is

[stoic needle]

The spec doesn't need to be any simpler

[sick scarab]

i really think snd doesnt fit in assa as it is now

well i find more fun assa than outlaw and sub..

dotting all spamm stuff keeping track of stuff

instead go ham flurry aoe wiht spaghetti

nonsense

[stoic needle]

I mean you press snd once every 30-40 seconds

[sick scarab]

always imho

[stoic needle]

I can't call that clunky

[sick scarab]

the prob is not that

priss snd 1 time in 30 40 sec

[stoic needle]

MFD makes it even less of a thought

[sick scarab]

problem is not needed in assa..

it is sub and outlaw

but assa..

[gusty mirage]

Snd is in a weird spot for sin for sure, but I think it just needs something to make it more impactful for sin I guess

[strange python]

make it increase poison tick rate or something on sin lol

[gusty mirage]

Give it a little sin flavor or something

[tribal mauve]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[sick scarab]

i mean

garrote ambush/mut garrote rupture, mut snd

and then after 12 yaear

and low energt

energy

VENDETTA

with out dots already thicking

that is bad

[stoic needle]

Yeah I can agree that it could be cooler

[sick scarab]

it sucks

[unique plume]

Thicc dotd

Dots

[stoic needle]

Like if they made your autos with snd up make your dots advance a few seconds

That would be amazing

[sick scarab]

give us stuff like premeditaiton wse start and snd up

and trhen we magae it

[tribal mauve]

Vers haste or crit haste on zoldyck guys

[sick scarab]

sim

🙂

[stoic needle]

Honestly it doesn't really matter

You will gear around it regardless

[sick scarab]

yep

[stoic needle]

I went vers haste so my gear wants more crit now

[sick scarab]

gear is rng so you use what you get and sim 🙂

[stoic needle]

If I went crit haste it would be the opposite

Cuz vers and crit are both good for sin so it really doesn't matter at all

my stats atm 215 ilvl

should get a bit more crit once i unlock sockets from venari

[strange python]

dat mastery

[stoic needle]

maybe this week

i hate it lol

[strange python]

yea same shit happened to me

game just shit mastery gear all over me

[stoic needle]

after reset I will get a vers/haste helmet which will lower the mastery more

and a crit/vers ring

so i should drop some mastery and gain more vers crit and haste

[gusty mirage]

The maw is properly designed then

[stoic needle]

I guess I'm weird but I actually like the maw

I hate mastery

[gusty mirage]

You are, but we still like you

[strange python]

I don't mind the maw I think there was only one time I particularly hated it and it was when I first unlocked perdition hold and died in it then died on my way back to recover my stygia

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's always a bitch

[gusty mirage]

The maw’s just so meh, it gets old quick. Plus after grinding to appreciative with venari, I’m just over it lol

[stoic needle]

I'm mad they made every socket cost 7k

Like wtf

[gusty mirage]

I just socket leggos/pvp gear because the socket stays when you upgrade it

[stoic needle]

You know it

This fresh challenger gear is just begging for sockets

The maw in war mode is SO MUCH FUN

Ganking people trying to kill the tough rares

[gusty mirage]

You’re a different kind of person

[stoic needle]

Just stun them when they try to dodge an aoe and they get one shot and you steal it

I'm not gonna lie I spent some time camping the maw entrance in the beginning of the xpac

But only because the alliance did it to me first!

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I turned off war mode when a group of alliance tried ganking me at 59 in revendreth

[stoic needle]

There was this arms warrior prot paladin duo who killed me in the town next to all of the guards in maldraxxus'

Little did I know how that was foreshadowing for what was to come...

[strange python]

so we all switch to assa after the reset?

[subtle tundra]

no

[stoic needle]

Imagine not having lvl 4 zoldyck already

[subtle tundra]

assa is still slightly behind sub in pure single target and any more targets than that outlaw comes out on top

maybe at some later point when i can craft r4 leggo ill play some assa for fun but not realistically soon for mythic

[stoic needle]

Yeah but in practice sin will perform the same if not better than sub unless you're playing sub perfectly or it's something where you need omega burst damage like sun king shield /shade

It's more than viable and that's all that matters

[placid cobalt]

guys anyone know if raidbots reflects the 5% buff yet or it will when it goes live?

[subtle tundra]

well when you get to the point where sub being slightly better makes you play it, you should be playing sub close to perfect already

also sub isnt hard to play

[stoic needle]

It's not but the mechanics in CN will fuck you over no matter how good of a player you are

[subtle tundra]

havent experienced that

[strange python]

we'll see the dps rankings for mythic raid again tomorrow

I expect the amount of people playing sub to drop even lower

[placid cobalt]

i mean, most people play outlaw in ST fights too currently, and to be honest, i sim 6258 as outlaw in ST while 6219 when playing sin (assuming raidbots doesnt already count the 5% buff). Imo this makes sin better, first of all because there is no RNG, second because it's got good execute which is a valuable thing in most encounters

[strange python]

i dont think raidbots has been using the 5% buff yet

[placid cobalt]

i actually sim 5923 with zoldyk rank 4, so i added 5% flat to get the 6219 number

also my assa has 2.5 IL less than my outlaw

[subtle tundra]

its not flat 5% cause weapon damage doesnt get buffed

[placid cobalt]

oh ok

so it's prolly a bit less i imagine, still doubt it would be more than 100 dps difference

[storm onyx]

Will be about 3%

[placid cobalt]

on my sim melee dmg is 19.7% of the overall, so if everything else is buffed by 5% numerically it should be 4% on overall if that's the case, roughly

but again we'll wait for sims, the main thing to take in consideration is that compared to outlaw sin is much more consistent pull after pull, i would prefer it for that alone

[marble bear]

if they're gunna keep buffing my favorite spec like this

i might have ot resub

[loud silo]

with tmrws buffs will sin be better than sub?

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

when you're top DPS in a PF +12

yet another group that doesn't make it past glob

i don't even know why i bother anymore

[spice spire]

Top damage on boss is fine. If you’re top trash damage, imma need you to dip my guy

[stoic needle]

next plaguefall 12

failure

[hazy moth]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[hazy moth]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[dim mirage]

wondering if zoldyck for inerva prog beats outlawl thinking

im thinking not worht

[spice spire]

Probably not.
Outlaw is still better output, and Zoldyck’s shouldn’t change that

[rugged dragon]

I played sin for like, 1.5 hour on the boss, did around 4.8k-5.2k max

with zoldyck leggy

swapped to my outlaw, and I was doing way more.

[dim mirage]

yea, i dont think the execute meme is strong enough to make it worthwhile

[rugged dragon]

while my sin was like, litteraly the lowest dps/second to lowest.

my outlaw was top 5 anytime

but this is still before buffs. So sin can get better

[dim mirage]

my thought experiment was next week after buffs

[rugged dragon]

well, it would get closer. But still not as close

[dim mirage]

guess ill save myself the gold for now

[gusty mirage]

Just curious, how much more? I’m wondering if the 5% will close the gap enough to convince my guild to let me live the assa dream

[rugged dragon]

let me check for you

[gusty mirage]

thank you

[rugged dragon]

https://gyazo.com/9b90cd3aa828faa759834103275b7624
https://gyazo.com/20c23c9ffb84a51686813707a2f0f724

[gusty mirage]

hmm, worth it lmao

[rugged dragon]

I couldnt get longer fight on assa rogue, because we didnt get that far.

But yeah, it was too big of a gap for me

[gusty mirage]

you can close that gap real quick if you bribe your priests for PI

[rugged dragon]

we have boomkins doing 25k.

I aint gonna get that lol

[gusty mirage]

just parrot the same shit people have been saying all expac

"SIN SCALES BETTER"

I feel you, my priest in m+ was like "do you want my PI? We don't have a mage"

I'm like dude giving it to the vdh tank is probably worth more than giving it to me

[rugged dragon]

true

actually lol

more soul thingies

more healing

[gusty mirage]

sad rogue noises

[rugged dragon]

wish I had convoke

😦

oh wait, im leveling a feral

I do

😄

[fleet whale]

cut sepsis cd in half

and we'll have a great covenant ability

[empty cradle]

im still amazed convoke exists in its current state

and it used to be even more casts

[royal lantern]

ik that people love too complain about convoke

but like, shifting power is a thing

lets just give them an ability that does good aoe dmg and reduces your major offensives cds cd

what could go wrong?

[spice spire]

Did someone use the S word

[grim canopy]

anyone know of Sin streamers for PVE

[royal lantern]

maybe seli soon again?

@marble hemlock big sin stream comming?

[marble hemlock]

hm?

no

only deny

fuck playing assa in aoe with less than 35-40% crit

[spice spire]

What about 34% crit?

[marble hemlock]

[void pecan]

[spice spire]

[torpid spoke]

imagine if rogues had a convoke like ability

or just give us prep back

🙂

[onyx hazel]

do i want to use a specific spender with the Echoing Reprimand combo point or is it just whatever you need at the time?

[ruby birch]

IIRC, anima charged CP only works on rupture and envenom

[onyx hazel]

Yeah it's only damaging abilities

[ruby birch]

So you definitely wanna use it on envenom since you're keeping rupture up all the time

Unless you somehow get to pandemic threshold and can anima charge it

But that shouldn't occur often

[onyx hazel]

so if i'm in the pandemic of rupture go ahead but don't hold the point for rupture

[ruby birch]

Yeah basically

[stray timber]

what legendary are the assassination rogues using for pvp

[balmy condor]

MA or doomblade

[pliant dust]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[ember oasis]

anyone have the soft and hard caps for secondary stats?

[balmy condor]

I would be surprised if they did

Considering none exist

But if you’re talking about the thresholds for when they start DRing

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/diminishing-returns-on-secondary-stats-in-world-of-warcraft

This is what you’re looking for

[ember oasis]

yes, thats what i was looking for, thanks!

[frosty bridge]

@balmy condor Just a question, a while ago I mentioned Sin rogue "scaling" and you said that it's not how the game worked (or something in that manner)

Out of curiousity, mind to elaborate?

Really interested in the game theory

[balmy condor]

Specs gets better with more stats

We know that to be true

You get ilvl, you get damage

The reason we don’t talk about “scaling” here, is because there’s a community perception that sin is bad early in the expac, and good later

And that’s perception is based on the idea that sin will do much better with more stats than everyone else

Now, let’s put aside for a second the fact that even that notion is wrong

(Sin actually gets comparatively worse with gear compared to sub for example as it stands right now)

But there’s a bigger reason, and that’s because the systems introduced in each patch have a much stronger effect on the performance of the spec, than any secondary stat scaling that spec has

Is it possible that over the course of getting 100 ilvl, you’ll catch up to an -insert X spec here- because they were 1.5% behind at 200 ilvl, but once you got to 280, you’re even?

Sure, in a vacuum, that might be possible

But let’s just say 9.1 brings a new, really strong conduit right

Or a tier set bonus

Whatever you want to imagine they add to the game

And they make it fairly strong, just like essences, and Azerite, artifact weapon traits in legion, the crucible stuff from argus, etc etc

That will shift the power drastically

It’ll shift your stat weights, it’ll shift the balance of good specs and bad

[nimble tartan]

i cant read

[balmy condor]

Specs live and die by borrowed power most of the time

And sin is no exception to that rule

Early legion, we were very very strong, because of overturning on exsang, and fairly high bleed damage to combo

Early BFA, shrouded was very strong

And since we had the strong azerite, we were strong

So when people say “oh sin always sucks at the start of the expansion, it’ll get better later just from gear” or something to that effect

That’s just not how that works

If sub gets a really strong tier set

And sin doesn’t

It’ll be behind again, stats or gear be damned

[frosty bridge]

Ah, I see

Nice read

Basically the borrowed power is what historically made it "scale" stronger as opposed to raw secondaries?

For the most part

[balmy condor]

Well any scaling that would be meaningful, would exist within the cycle of 1 patch

Before they introduce the next borrowed power that then shifts everything again

[grim canopy]

wait so NF rogue can have 2 cheat deaths?

[balmy condor]

Technically, yeah

Dreamweaver is the worst soulbind out of the 3, but if you for some reason really want 2 cheat deaths

Go for it

[balmy condor]

The problem with this is obviously that you get maybe 30 ilvl in total across a patch, so even if you do scale super hard in that one patch, you don’t really have the room for it

[low girder]

unless something's weird about the tank dummy, no they don't

[balmy condor]

They do not

Iirc, cheat death procs first

And if you get killed afterwards, the cocoon pops

[dusky vault]

hmm must have been bugged initially and its now fixed; ignore my comment then

[low girder]

ye, cocoon is last

it can overkill through CD and proc both obv but in most cases they will be separate

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Cheat death won’t prevent you from dying to a solo soak on sun king most times for example

If you get smashed for like double your health

Cheat death is like

[dusky vault]

surviving chain snaps with cheat death is pretty poggers though

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[thorn plover]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[native turtle]

Remember when Toxic blade was randomly added in the middle of Legion?? Good times

[raven locust]

Poison Bomb doing either 3% or 18% of your ST damage

[pastel hatch]

!opener

[strange python]

I wouldn't have minded the old ttb in legion

[raven locust]

The conduit would have been pretty damn good in Argus

[shrewd helm]

Spatula

I know you

[raven locust]

Which Spatula, theres one on Illidan

[feral basin]

I swear poison bomb so be a proc that hits a debuff on targets, tilting as shit when boss/mob is moved from it 🤦‍♂️

[raven locust]

It was a pool on the ground at some point

It looked like something you werent suppose to stand in so tanks would move it out on constantly

[tribal mauve]

guys, do we always finsh at 5cp or 4 is fine ?

[feral basin]

Exactly should be a poison on target like lethal etc. Still random procs but means target isn't moved out

[raven locust]

5 with Deeper Strat

[feral basin]

-1CP is fine if you'll overcap I believe ?

[raven locust]

Yea

[feral basin]

And it's fine to shiv at 5cp and loose the cp to get empowered envenom also

[raven locust]

Im pretty sure you still Shiv on CD regardless of CP, I may be wrong though

Been exclusively playing Outlaw for a while now xd

[feral basin]

I've been saving my shiv for when rupture / SnD won't expire so I get full value

Or is it just worth using cos it buffs poison nature dmg?

I maybe fucking myself over 🤔

[shy dust]

shiv on cd

[raven locust]

in BFA you would use it every time it's off CD, you would just time it so Rupture and SnD wouldnt fall off during it's buff

[feral basin]

Yeah been outlaw boy all the way so far but still had my sin leggo crafted and upgraded praying for some buffs

[raven locust]

Yea I might craft Zoldyck and dink around with it now

[feral basin]

Cool TY I've been holding looking to get 2 envemons or more off

[shy dust]

Yeah you press shiv on cd

holding it will just cost you casts over a fight

[gleaming eagle]

the only

reason you would go for dreamweaver

is for pvp

its pretty bad in pve cause it doesnt boost your dps

[feral basin]

Yes

[gleaming eagle]

its actually pretty good in arenas

[feral basin]

Good for progress fights maybe

[stoic needle]

dreamweaver double potency + blossom haste thing is underrated

[shy dust]

No

[feral basin]

If you think your gunna screw up a lot

[shy dust]

you wouldnt run dreamweaver for progress fight

youre sacrifcing dps

[raven locust]

Not good for progression either, DPS is too important

[shy dust]

for a class that already has a cheat death mechanic

[raven locust]

Plus we're Rogues, aint gonna die

[feral basin]

True, but some will still? 🤔🤷‍♂️

[raven locust]

They're griefing the raid if they choose Dreamweaver over Niya

[feral basin]

🤣

True

[raven locust]

especially tomorrow when we get Spurs, big damage boost

[feral basin]

Yeah that's gunna be big

[raven locust]

is 27 or 28 the cap this week? lmao

[feral basin]

Well Wednesday for me 🤦‍♂️

Erm 30 this week, 32 next?

[raven locust]

Aight ty then Spurs is next week

[feral basin]

I'm confused

[dusky vault]

Deleting for clarity

[feral basin]

Lol

[dusky vault]

28 today; 30 tomorrow

[feral basin]

Yeah

That fucked with my mind

It's to late

NN boys!

Gl gf for all U US resets

[plain onyx]

hey all, best poisons for mythic+ ?

[strange python]

considering you're asking then deadly and numbing
HOWEVER in higher keys the meta for the tank is "burst threat and run for the hills" so the higher keys go it becomes deadly and cripling

[plain onyx]

thankss

[shrewd helm]

@raven locust the one that posts on the retail forums?

[little basalt]

How does MA change the assassination rotation?

[native turtle]

no garrote in opener

[mossy sable]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[feral sierra]

Doomblade or master assasin legendary for pvp what would you guys say is better?

[tulip nacelle]

try #pvp

[tender fjord]

MA

[old snow]

master assassin most likely, but if you can try both out and see which one works best for you

[grim canopy]

tomarrow assasin = respected?

i played hitman 3 and i pretended to be my assassin rogue

[strange python]

I hope so. I miss my stabby toon

[open swift]

spurs is gonna be crazy with shiv

[balmy condor]

Spurs?

[old snow]

but depends how consitent burrs are gonna be compared to poison and poison also comes with second potency conduit

[balmy condor]

Oh my god

[stoic needle]