i'm fine with this iteration of outlaw. legion version kinda sucked and made me want to die whenever i played it.
#assassination
hollow escarp
I'm a sin main with rank 4 celerity 
frail fossil
This iteration is amazing
versed mica
take outlaw, tinker, and necromancer, and make them all specs for Clown class
stoic needle
Or just like let rogue have 4 specs
quaint sequoia
really missing toggle blade flurry on outlaw
stoic needle
I can't abide by outlaw since it comes at the cost of combat
versed mica
what was combat if not outlaw without rtb
quaint sequoia
I liked when only diffrence between ST and aoe was a toggle
low girder
blade flurry may as well be a toggle atm\
hollow escarp
you have it on CD anyway
stoic needle
Think about how much they could develop outlaw if it was it's own class. You could have a pistol bomb and cannon spec, a tank spec and the current swashbuckler spec
hollow escarp
bring Smuggler buff for rouge - for extra loot in raids
low girder
kinda stepping on current sv with the first one
quaint sequoia
well sv should never been remade so
low girder
well yeah
strange python
what a fun and engaging class
low girder
not gonna argue there
stoic needle
BM should have become the melee spec
low girder
no, they just shouldn't have touched any of them
versed mica
again, what makes outlaw much different from combat with the exception of rtb?
low girder
they were fine, but let's add ANOTHER melee spec
quaint sequoia
hunter should just be ranged 🤷♂️
stoic needle
The theme
versed mica
like what would making outlaw it's own class do lmao
stoic needle
Combat doesn't have a forced as hell pirate theme
low girder
bandit's guile is the primary thing i miss
versed mica
they pulled back on it a bit
low girder
the leggo doesn't really come close to what it was
you can't delay it like you could with combat
stoic needle
It lets people who want to be pirates be pirates without ruining a classic part of another class
strange python
there's barely a forced pirate theme, guns aren't exclusive to pirates. The only thing that's really forced is the animation on RTB (I guess)
versed mica
playing outlaw in pvp
fleet whale
Outlaw isn’t as piratey as it was in legion
versed mica
pirates don't have grapple hooks lmao wym
stoic needle
Greenskin? The flintlock pistol?
low girder
not nearly as much, no
stoic needle
How do you think they boarded enemy ships
vocal cipher
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
stoic needle
With grappling hooks
And ropes
The pirate theme is there idk how this is even an argument
frail fossil
Pirate def feels pirate
low girder
rip ghost ship
frail fossil
Roll the bones, bte, even acrobatic strike is part of the fantasy
low girder
you were never used, and that was a shame
versed mica
not really, they used grapple hooks to like, hold their ship to the other ship
they didnt throw a grapple and then zoom to the other side
hollow escarp
acrobatic strikes talent can only be played with Thunderfurry
stoic needle
Just cuz it's slightly less than legion doesn't mean that is not still there and not any less forced
hollow escarp
for immersion
versed mica
bte and acrobatic strikes is arguably not exclusively pirate
low girder
i mean it's a lot less forced. at least it's not "sabre slash" and "run through"
for no reason
stoic needle
It still feels wrong
versed mica
god that was such a lame talent
low girder
nah it was cool
torpid spoke
You guys think assassin will be good after buffs
stoic needle
You guys think assassin will be good after buffs
Pins
stoic needle
I just think it would be better for everyone if they made it it's own class and turned the pirate thing up to 11
versed mica
that would be even more stupid, a pirate summoning an entire ass ghost ship like what??? 
stoic needle
Instead of this weird half combat half pirate thing we have now
versed mica
why would a pirate go to the shadowlands tho
versed mica
stoic needle
Honestly if they used the glyph system to give us less piratey versions of rtb and pistol shot and stuff I wouldn't mind that either
torpid spoke
Are there breakpoints for haste?
stoic needle
No there are not
torpid spoke
The more the better? Lol
stoic needle
Give us a glyph that makes RTB into combat senses, changes the flintlock pistol into a different model and I wouldn't complain
median aurora
sim it but remember that SL introduced diminishing returns for stats
stoic needle
You can't get to stat DR this early in the expansion
stoic needle
Even if you got to the first or second DR it would still be good
Haste is just good
torpid spoke
How much haste do y’all have right now
stoic needle
I had 21% but I have some pvp gear now so I'm back down to like 18%
torpid spoke
All other secondaries are like close?
Would it be good to just plop on a fuck ton of vers and call it a day
fierce rivet
Do secondary stats priorities differ for m+ and raid content variants?
winter gale
Is high end outlaw gear good for start?
Haste Versa?
I just want to insta switch to assa
median aurora
from pins
stoic needle
Crit is more important than vers in my opinion for aoe because you need to get more reliable CP from FoK
fierce rivet
So haste crit on leggos?
stoic needle
My stat priority is haste > crit > vers > mast
hollow escarp
that's what I did
stoic needle
Haste vers or haste crit is fine
hollow escarp
vers gear is so easy to get with conquest vendor anyway
stoic needle
My zoldyck is haste vers and it doesn't really matter
As long as you pick crit or vers, the one slot from your legendary isn't going to make a huge difference
winter gale
If I prioritize raiding and play Ms as Outlaw...which leggo is bis for Assa?
hollow escarp
zoldyck
hollow escarp
I'm kinda sad I crafted Finality on sub, should have went with Akaari as I rarely play it and I could have used it in pure single target fights
stoic needle
Using dashing just makes you a worse sub rogue
fiery wedge
i crafted doomblade is it gg?
hollow escarp
pvp 
toxic tusk
Any of you alliance types on want to team up/do random stuff?
fiery wedge
F
stoic needle
When/if we can use 2 legendaries it might be a solid 2nd
And technically it's equal to zoldyck on st but that's only in bis gear, and again if you aren't using zoldyck in raid you're kinda trolling
fiery wedge
leg or feet better for zoldyck?
stoic needle
Legs
torpid spoke
In the sim of sub vs assassin
stoic needle
That just seems... Wrong
hollow escarp
I wonder why the set talents for single target is subterfurge
torpid spoke
What legendary is sin using?
stoic needle
Herodamage is using some pretty unoptimized gear for sin so I think those legendary sims are kinda wrong
hollow escarp
I guess I need to dump some gold if I wanna craft my own rank 4 pants
stoic needle
If you have haste/x stuff in every slot zoldyck catches up
fiery wedge
my haste rating is about 800 right now lol
stoic needle
What legendary is sin using?
Zoldyck
fiery wedge
24%
torpid spoke
So dashing scoundrel would be like bring it even closer then?
torpid spoke
How so?
stoic needle
It's only good for single target fights
And the execute value of zoldyck outweighs the small dps increase from Dashing
fiery wedge
fok poison dots doesnt count on multiple targets?
stoic needle
You have to envenom to get the effect to activate
torpid spoke
And it last the duration of the envenom right
stoic needle
Yeah which is pretty short
fiery wedge
oh right didnt realised the envenom part
torpid spoke
Hmmm Idk I’ll have enough soul ash to make a leg for sin but this convinced me to make zoldyck
fiery wedge
i need to farm more.. since i went all in on doomblade F
stoic needle
Someone posted a couple logs here earlier that showed a sin rogue only 100 dps behind an outlaw rogue during p3 of sire which is all execute
This is before the buffs we're gonna get on Tuesday
hollow escarp
that's perfect execution though
feral basin
And it's tempting
torpid spoke
Mythic?
hollow escarp
no
stoic needle
But if it works in heroic it'll work in Mythic too
hollow escarp
my first sin kill on sire was with Vendetta getting out of CD at 500k hp, so I didn't get much value out of it 😦
feral basin
The DPS gain from outlaw is P1 isn't really worth anything from the add cleave
stoic needle
It's just padding
feral basin
Yup feels good NGL but in the big picture
stoic needle
And sin's 2 target cleave is almost as good as outlaw's
torpid spoke
Add cleave p2 is good though
feral basin
So P2 will be interesting
stoic needle
Sin's cleave is better than sub's by far
feral basin
Suberfuge maybe good for the garrote on the two adds
stoic needle
Yes it is
feral basin
Might have a look at it
stoic needle
And you can multidot sire and remornia
hollow escarp
I didn't play subterfurge becuase our melee ads die fast
novel surge
You just reapply the empowered garrote on vanish
stoic needle
Getting 2 empowered garottes on sire and remornia is big
stoic needle
hollow escarp
hey, new guild
stoic needle
Lol
hollow escarp
don't wanna play the bad spec 
hollow escarp
no excuse, will play sin
also in my guild there are 3 rogues, they play sub and outlaw
feral basin
Wonder if it's worth trying sin on Sire this weekend to compare it to next week after the buff 🤔🤔
hollow escarp
so next week we'll see what's the best spec 
stoic needle
You better bring it
feral basin
also in my guild there are 3 rogues, they play sub and outlaw
I'm the outlaw boi in my guild but sin is my favourite spec
hollow escarp
the only issue I have with sin on sire is doing no damage in phase 1, but that's just padding
stoic needle
Just tunnel sire
native turtle
Have all the negative IQ people left?? Can we go back to memes yet??
hollow escarp
not yet
stoic needle
You could ||rupture snipe||
native turtle
Sadge
hollow escarp
did that a few times 
phase 1 on outlaw feels so good though if blade rush is not on CD 
pseudo hamlet
Boys, the 5% assa buff means we're going to be at last on pair with sub?
pseudo hamlet
PRAISE THE ASS
hollow escarp
feral basin
Outlaw has always been more suited to both styles , but the playstyle is headache city
hollow escarp
I like it
stoic needle
I like it but I don't like being a pirate
winter gale
Blindside is the way to go?
north pewter
I use it, and it procs quite often. It's a quick way to fill CP.
It does a decent amount of extra dmg as well
vocal sierra
It's just a hype...nothing is certain yet
winter gale
Well, 5 % upgrade is ceratain and then it will be 18% since release total.
stoic needle
You done hecked up son
toxic tusk
Frig.
vocal sierra
wait
topaz saffron
Lmao
vocal sierra
9% and 5% are 18%?
stoic needle
You could've had zoldyck legs and dashing boots when we get to use double leggo
toxic tusk
I bought the 235 boots before I realized what I was doing 😦
topaz saffron
We had a 5% before the 8?
winter gale
5+8+5
vocal sierra
k
stoic needle
Now you'll have to have zoldyck boots and dashing cape
It really doesn't matter but it's less stats than legs and boots
vocal sierra
but is assa after buff nr.1 or not?
stoic needle
No
toxic tusk
Number 1 in our hearts.
stoic needle
Outlaw is still #1 but sin will be roughly equal to sub
vocal sierra
ok so no reason in dmg terms to play assa
winter gale
Its close enough to be viable and I since I play it better I will surpass my percentiles with it which means for me it will be better 😄
stoic needle
Yes there is, you do more damage on fights with lots of mechanics and you do more damage than any rogue spec in execute phase which is important for progression
vocal sierra
That's your Reason, it's fine 🙂
toxic tusk
On percentiles and parses. We raid on Thursday’s, so if the reset is on Tuesday’s am I realistically parsing against two days worth of players?
Oh god yeah @vocal sierra, play for whatever reason you want to!
vocal sierra
Serious, they better fix that we can change sec stats on any item
stoic needle
They won't
vocal sierra
It happened to me twice
winter gale
Only issue is gear dropping on low rate and I am almost full Crit Versa
vocal sierra
sitting now on 2 items who arent optimal
topaz saffron
I just want some synergy with SnD, increase it via finishers?
winter gale
Luckily I did some Outlaw and on mythic reclears I gathered some ok pieces
vocal sierra
Yeah @winter gale Castle is no good for Assa
stoic needle
In the grand scheme of things having 1 item with suboptimal stats literally doesn't matter
vocal sierra
Maybe next Endcontent
winter gale
For sub u mean?
vocal sierra
For Assa
stoic needle
You have far more important things to worry about than one item having a suboptimal stat
winter gale
Sub is crit/versa
vocal sierra
Yeah
stoic needle
All secondaries add damage, just because you have a stat that adds slightly less damage than another doesn't mean you can't perform well
vocal sierra
It's possible to gear up from Castle/M+
stoic needle
One piece of gear isn't holding you back
winter gale
No ring, cloak etc
toxic tusk
I’m doing alright in castle on normal and heroic I think.
winter gale
There are plenty more items in dungs/raid for assa than sub
stoic needle
Let's be real, no loot drops from either 
You get pvp gear and vault gear no matter what spec you are
stoic needle
I'm gonna hit 1600 this weekend and get more gear than I have gotten from every week of raiding so far
vocal sierra
Assa viable for M+ or Outlaw still 1?
dense narwhal
MA is pretty sweet for all 3 specs in M+ right?
hollow escarp
only in necrotic wake and in low keys
dense narwhal
Low keys. Good point
iron orchid
For sin Zoldyck is much better once you get to higher keys
In NW you could play with MA
dense narwhal
I got Zoldyck first
dense narwhal
But I was playing more sub recently just to get comfortable with it
and did some outlaw this morning too
iron orchid
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-rankings/season-sl-1/world/rogue/assassinatio...
Hello I'm here top5
iron orchid
Still have to peen down the rankings ehe
dense narwhal
I wonder what's the most complementary spec to pair with sin... Is sin's biggest strength spread cleave still?
hollow escarp
I don't wanna show my sin rio score
iron orchid
and did some outlaw this morning too
Outlaw feels like the easiest spec to play in M+
dense narwhal
How does it's ST stack up these days?
hollow escarp
@iron orchid do you have a premade or just pugged?
I just realized how stupid my question is
dense narwhal
I used to like it when sub was the funnel spec, sin was ST/spread cleave and combat/outlaw was aoe
iron orchid
How does it's ST stack up these days?
Boss fights in M+ with pride, lust, buffs up, you just pierce through bosses
iron orchid
<@!151426182506610688> do you have a premade or just pugged?
Just running most of it with my guild
hollow escarp
most of my keys with guildies were depletes 
iron orchid
two teams fighting top rankings on the server in my guild so I join them when there is someone missing
hollow escarp
is Hyjal alliance heavy?
iron orchid
is Hyjal alliance heavy?
I'm second overall rogue on alliance side
hollow escarp
dense narwhal
So sub started as the favorite, but now it's all about outlaw for throughput currently
iron orchid
So sub started as the favorite, but now it's all about outlaw for throughput cur...
Yup
dense narwhal
So having sub as an offspec only makes sense if I can't find a good outlaw weapon
iron orchid
Easy cleave, strong ST
brittle pawn
outlaw just has too many buttons and is too wackamole for me
hollow escarp
it's easy to play all 3 specs tbf
brittle pawn
i like the predictability of sub/sin
hollow escarp
you only need 2 daggers and 1 sword
dense narwhal
Which I have atm
hollow escarp
223 sword, 220 and 207 daggers 
dense narwhal
I loved out dpsing outlaw rogues as sin in m+ last xpac
hollow escarp
Weapons don’t drop.
toxic tusk
Tell me I’m amazing if I’m wrong, but no weapons drop in LFR do they?
hollow escarp
this week
got the 220 dagger the week before
you just need to click the Great Vault
brittle pawn
why wouldnt weapons drop in lfr >.>
toxic tusk
I just didn’t remember seeing any in the loot list.
hollow escarp
there aren't
brittle pawn
theyre tokens
hollow escarp
those are tokens
hollow escarp
there are still some good fights for sub
dense narwhal
I really wanna play all 3 lol
I guess I'll be able to eventually
My main is ele/resto this xpac, because of the melee struggles in CN
but I've mained sin since Wrath
hollow escarp
it's not that bad to maintain alts
hollow escarp
it might be harder to get to hc gear level first week you dinged
but the loot progression is not that bad
even solo
hollow escarp
and starting with next week you can pretty much get 200+ ilvl from WQ
raven egret
you just go 1-4 14s a week for chest
and do your weeklies
literally no playtime to maintain
hollow escarp
I haven't timed a 14 on my main yet 
winter gale
Do we use Ambush only when we have that proc? Not when in stealth etc?
Asking purely for the sake of bind 😄
hollow escarp
only with blindside proc
winter gale
Ok, ty
hollow escarp
I also moved ambush from the mutilate keybind
moved it to the "execute" button I use for most specs
winter gale
Same,y 😄
north pewter
Its close enough to be viable and I since I play it better I will surpass my per...
Thats really the trick to any spec. Execute it amazingly and you'll be top. Someone said earlier that unless you're world first or getting sweaty in 20s, it doesn't matter, and I agree.
warm plover
I am redoing my WA for assas atm cause the buff, whats the pandemic timer on garrote and rupture?
north pewter
All the rogue specs are viable to the average player. Dont not have fun because you're convinced you're about to join an esports team. Play what you like.
hollow escarp
garrote 6 and rupture 8 iirc
obsidian willow
How do you dps on sire with sin? On p1 do you just fan of knives and funnel everything to sire? Then p2, multi dot and go back to sire?
north pewter
I swap to crimson tempest and pretend it makes a difference
warm plover
garrote 6 and rupture 8 iirc
need the exact
warm plover
garrote 6 and rupture 8 iirc
rupture is 8.4
north pewter
No ST spec is going to perform amazing. The echoes should die fast if your guild is doing mechanics so for that part im basically a useless little baby.
north pewter
Not dying should be your focus in phase 1. Smack denathrius. Do mechanics. Win.
And cry to yourself that you parsed on every other boss
Against, I think last week it was like 1700 other ass rogues on my server 😂😂
hollow escarp
I doubt
north pewter
There's def not many.
proper meteor
mb globaly
late birch
Assa any viable now with bugg anyone know :D?
raven egret
what bug
late birch
if i switch now i wont regretti?
raven egret
probably not
sub would be 1% better sometimes
and ofc for fights like kaelthas
but our execute is so valuable on fights like sire
we are even better than outlaw on sire
halcyon grail
Sludge needs to be part of this conversation. His 30% health always lines up with a pillar.
And it's GO TIIIIME~
halcyon grail
Depending onna groups DPS sub only gets 1.5 uses out of shadowblades.
raven egret
on mythic youd always get 3 uses
halcyon grail
Sin can hit 2 pillars and opener with vendetta
brittle pawn
you get 3 with stacatto
halcyon grail
Mythic vendetta will prob be up for everybpillar
dense narwhal
moved it to the "execute" button I use for most specs
I have the ol' macro for Ambush/Crimson tempest, because i'm typically running blindsite or crimson tempest, never both
halcyon grail
MMM true.
dense narwhal
Alt+1 or Alt+` are usually my aoe spenders/builders
So just a casual ring finger move going from FoK to CT
Or Shuriken to Smoke Bomb
Outlaw is just blade flurry Alt 1 lol
stoic needle
Don't use crimson tempest on sire btw
dense narwhal
Oh no way
brittle pawn
do i spend 60k to buy r3 zoldyck next week or wait another week to go straight to r4 
dense narwhal
Only use CT if your guild can't get to p2 lol
dense narwhal
do i spend 60k to buy r3 zoldyck next week or wait another week to go straight ...
If you're swimming in gold, upgrade now. Otherwise wait a week
stoic needle
Imagine not having rank 4 z ldyck already
spice spire
Imagine not having r4 Zoldyck’s for over a month now
dense narwhal
I love my ride or die 'sin fam
stoic needle
Imagine not having r4 Zoldyck’s for over a month now <:kekw:610125925413289985>
We are all lost sheep before we find the way
unkempt creek
will sin get my raid spot back??
hollow escarp
gonna make some gold this week crafting umbrahide pants
brittle pawn
will sin get my raid spot back??
if you lost a raid spot it prob wasn't because of spec
stoic needle
I wish I was on a server small enough to actually make money with legendary crafting
paper stratus
If you don’t have a raid spot that’s on you not your spec
toxic tusk
Well, it could be because of the guild too.
Let’s not discount some guilds aren’t great
unkempt creek
I perform fine lol. Guild just prefers to bring FOTM
paper stratus
There’s a lot of choices
hollow escarp
I feel bad for you
unkempt creek
Its all good i get in for farm. Anyway, looking forward to check out sin this expo
open reef
What leggy craft and what slot?
brittle pawn
open reef
Execute one and what gear slot?
verbal mantle
legs
polar apex
Heya humans, does garrote snapshot the crit lego?
polar apex
hmm okay how do you open in M+ then?
hollow escarp
triple garrote
hollow escarp
you plan to play MA in M+? 
polar apex
I made the thing for pvp but my only other lego is the envenom one 🙂 rerolled two weeks ago
brittle pawn
get more gud
manic harness
Guess I need to work on some Assassination gear then
This is really, really interesting
god damnit rogue don't do this to me
I literally told myself yesterday I was gonna stop Mythic raiding this tier since I can't find a guild
since no one wants a Rogue
potent rune
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
tender folio
One more round of buffs and we are good
grim canopy
15% more
tender folio
I will stick with sub for now , if the next set of buffs happen then maybe it will be worth rerolling to assa
coarse coral
Why are sims using zoldyck? Isn't dashing better for st ?
grim canopy
i wonder with 5% if Sin will now be at least good ok M+
azure carbon
Why are sims using zoldyck? Isn't dashing better for st ?
Technically, but most raid fights aren't really single target, and execute damage is more valuable damage so the difference is not worth taking Dashing.
azure carbon
i wonder with 5% if Sin will now be at least good ok M+
I imagine Sin will likely still be kinda troll in M+.
grim canopy
dang
azure carbon
Per hero damage, Outlaw in DS does 8.7k DPS, sub 7.8k, and Sin 6.8k. Even with the extra 3.5%, thats only like 7.1k.
Or
frail fossil
I imagine Sin will likely still be kinda troll in M+.
idk how it'll be more troll than sub tbf
azure carbon
like 81% of Outlaw's dmg.
frail fossil
hero damage 
azure carbon
hero damage <:monkaS:585734084014374922>
Its useful for back of the napkin maths. Idk, the mileage will vary for sure.
frail fossil
like sin is better than sub on 4 targets for sure
azure carbon
100%.
frail fossil
it's same(ish) on st
coarse coral
Does zoldyck increase envenom damage ?
frail fossil
sin is on par with sub in m+ with that
imo
which is not very good
but still a thing
i'd say sin in m+ is harder than sub in m+ tho
and more effort
unreal parcel
I don't understand. I see in the pins dashing is better but theres a lot of talk for Zoldyck.
frail fossil
I don't understand. I see in the pins dashing is better but theres a lot of talk...
because dashing is pure ST only
unreal parcel
Thank you my guys
storm forum
I did a couple M+ this week as sin and it feels fun, but it's definitely worse and definitely more work. Damage-wise, idk if I'm just out of practice or something, but I did ~5-10% less damage than sub. Utility-wise, Garrote silence (even with iron wire) is definitely worse than losing infinite cheap shots(sub) or gouge+CDR(outlaw).
frail fossil
infinite cheap shots is overrated NGL
like i dont want to see no sub stun 5 times in their shadow dance
azure carbon
Yeah, but one in a dance window is fine. And better than garrote silence.
frail fossil
gouge is fine, but also world first 23 outlaw did cast it like, 3 times
storm forum
I mean you don't want to use it, but sometimes the tank needs something to help drop grievous and I found that it was great for spiteful
dark hollow
i dunno that the garrote v gouge v sd-cs utility is as deal breaker as everyone pumps it tbh
frail fossil
i dont think it matters as much as people think lol
azure carbon
Basically "infinite Cheapshot" is just Gouge with more leg work and a shared DR.
I think gouge is better in practice, tbh.
storm forum
I mean you can't gouge 4 things
storm forum
it is just worse than like shadowfury or leg sweep though
yeah or cap
but sometimes your comp sucks okay
frail fossil
there's 0 situation almost where i felt like i need more than kidney, gouge and blind
like
if u use them correctly
azure carbon
And even if you do, you Mage / Hunter / WW have better tools for that scenario that hurt comp DPS less.
frail fossil
and when i play sub i almost never feel the need where i need to fucking stun 5 things
dont forget, the biggest utility is unironically damage
shit dies quicker > tank take less dmg, heal use less mana
like a sub bursting sod+dance is prolly more useful to the grp than 3 cheap shots
azure carbon
TBH, unless I'm running MA for NW cheese, i usually cheap out of vanish. Less DPS loss, imo.
frail fossil
like people hugely overated "utility" imo
specially in term of rogues
like naguura during the mdi pogging at rogue getting a st soothe with 24sec cd lmfao
"WOW ROGUE GOT SO MUCH UTILITY" like aint nobody taking rogues for shiv
azure carbon
When every team already has a Hunter...
azure carbon
I think Shiv soothe is good though.
azure carbon
I think a lot of people think of rogue utility like you can still save 5 minutes of trash you dont need for %, when straight up you can't really skip trash like that in SL.
frail fossil
but like, i feel like a lot of rogues in m+ feel like people bring rogue for utility and their dmg do not matter
and that's just straight up not true
like in 8.3 i've seen so much ppl say "ppl bring rogue for utility not dmg haha"
grim canopy
lol
frail fossil
that's just flat out wrong
azure carbon
I do think people bring rogues for utility over damage. I dont think we really have a lot of it though, realistically. Can't compete with AMZ or RoP in the slightest.
frail fossil
yeah but like outlaw in bfa was so strong because it's utility weaved so well into dps
azure carbon
I'm personally OK with that being the perception, tbh.
frail fossil
like outlaw had survivability, had a stun which was part of their dps rotation, which also gave a 10% dmg increase on the target, with a relatively low cd, didn't need to be played around like a fire mage to do dmg, was pretty much self sufficient
like it's just that the outlaw toolkit fit so well m+
utility is a part of why ppl like it, but like people dont take outlaw for utility and doesn't care abt dmg
also something important, outlaw was very much not hurt by the fact they had to stack vers
with corruptions
anyway, sin in m+ will prolly be fine i think, prolly at sub level
but also prolly takes more effort
heavy ocean
whats the legendary to use atm?
frail fossil
zoldyck
azure carbon
Idk, all DoT specs are kinda troll in dungeons, tbh. Probably feels decent to good in high keys where stuff stays alive super long, but even then its kinda bad because unlike say Shadow Priest or Aff the multi-dot damage isn't really there.
onyx hemlock
Yeah, low keys plus dot specs are a recipe for low performance
Sin still fine, but targets have to live
frail fossil
given that sin takes almost zero effort to begin with
i mean it's more effort to put dots on literally every target in a pull than sub doing shuriken storm bp
frail fossil
Sin still fine, but targets have to live
played it a bit in like 15s/14s starts to feel pretty decent ngl
onyx hemlock
For sure, even at 10 prideful makes anything feel good, just for a lil bit :)
frail fossil
i think vanishing and seeing all ur dot crit with MA is very funny xd
onyx hemlock
Havent finished my mage yet, but i have a dream of arcane maldraxxus with full cd's right after prideful on exactly 3 mobs - the dream
frail fossil
is NF bis for arcane ?
onyx hemlock
Its not about whats bis, its about the dream
stoic needle
As someone who's been doing keys as sin for the past month or two, it's been better than sub for a long time now
It does more aoe damage than sub, has only slightly less cc
Ppl talk about how sub is good for prio damage on prideful but that's kind of a meme
stoic needle
For prio damage, on cooldown
Only save it if you need to soothe something
As sin you come out the gate with a 3 second silence on the 3 most dangerous caster enemies in a pack. When your sepsis procs, you get a other 3 second silence or free cheap shot. Then you get to vanish and do it again. That combined with kick and kidney I have never felt the lack of cc unless my group mates don't have any whatsoever
If you have to burn multiple gcds in dance cheap shotting, you have larger problems
azure carbon
I dont think Sin does more AoE damage than Sub. More cleave damage, sure.
stoic needle
Granted it's not as good as gouge, but it's decent
azure carbon
Depends on your tank / healer and how much you pull.
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
stoic needle
!fuu
Look at the aoe numbers
It's gonna be even better once we get first strike and can get more CP in aoe
Black powder just isn't that good unfortunately
stoic needle
Look at the numbers on the spreadsheet
azure carbon
Right, but is it like 5 targets that all stay alive for 5 minutes?
stoic needle
5 target aoe damage with different legendaries in good gear setups
azure carbon
Because thats not a realistic scenario in a dungeon.
stoic needle
I dunno exactly, but the higher keys you get into the more realistic that scenario becomes
CT does comparable damage to black powder, just needs a second to ramp up. Sin ruptures do more damage, and there's also garottes
azure carbon
I also think that given how Sub has a target cap of 8, simming at 5 is a touch misleading.
stoic needle
Sub has burst aoe but as it becomes more sustained sin wins out
azure carbon
But you could be right, it could actually do more damage.
stoic needle
Well crimson tempest also has a target cap of 8
Honestly going up to 8 would probably shift things even more in favor of sin because that's more targets to rupture
short hamlet
it might be time to come to the dark side bois
stoic needle
Sub doesn't really have the luxury of multidotting things with rupture in aoe
frail fossil
But you could be right, it could actually do more damage.
i think like it's really even ngl
snow arch
Having to pick CT as a talent is not cool
frail fossil
and maybe it has slitghly less dmg on aoe, but it just balances out with sin having better cleave
frail fossil
Having to pick CT as a talent is not cool
CT is cool as fuck what u mean
timber pawn
Would be too powerful if it was baseline
frail fossil
bro if i counted the number of sin talent that should be baseline
stoic needle
Don't think so
timber pawn
Then you'd be getting Vial and CT on top
stoic needle
Rogue would need a lot more than ct baseline to be OP
Why is everyone afraid of rogue being good
timber pawn
In AOE situations it'd be broken
stoic needle
give us the sauce! Let us be good!
frail fossil
BROO CRAZYYY
timber pawn
I'd love Rogue to be good
stoic needle
Even with CT we'd still be behind boomkin and fire mage
timber pawn
but this is apparently our tier to be shit
snow arch
Broken? There are so many better aoe specs.
frail fossil
fire mage and hunter are thing but u think ct being baseline is op
frail fossil
no
stoic needle
No it wouldn't lol
frail fossil
that is just
royal lantern
what do you smoke
timber pawn
especially sustained AoE
royal lantern
lmao
frail fossil
not going to happen
royal lantern
LMAO
royal lantern
sin and aoe king
frail fossil
CRAAAAZY
stoic needle
Like I'm happy plugging along doing 6k sustained on most pulls
The fire mage is doing fucking
15k
17k
Every pull because combustion is up every pull
frail fossil
wild spirit is a thing but ct and poison bomb is where i draw the line
stoic needle
Anyway I think we should get CT baseline because then we can have a niche of having small scale uncapped aoe
If dks get to have uncapped aoe we should too
stoic needle
Yeah but PB isn't
Get some good LOS pulls or dk grip going to stack things up and let it rip
royal lantern
@stoic needle btw wanna know the good part about the entire SUB PRIORIRTY DMG FOR PRIDEFULL!!!! thing?
sub does high priority dmg when you blow stuff out
and gues what, blowing stuff out 20sec before you pull a boss is not a good idea
meanwhile adrenaline rush is up every 1min anyway
stoic needle
I vendetta prideful sometimes if we're not using it for a boss
royal lantern
AR+pot with 1oil is enough for 5k+ dps for the pirdefull add
stoic needle
Cuz vendetta is single target buff anyway
stoic needle
But a lot of times I don't blow CdS on prideful at all and it doesn't matter
When have u ever wiped to prideful
frail fossil
if a pride is. truly scuffed just ask ur mage to combust it
stoic needle
One time we literally fought prideful and mordretha at the same time
Now THAT was some shit lmao
frail fossil
but ar cd is so short, u have have it for pride, and the pakc after
stoic needle
We missed count by 1% because the tank forgot to pull a ghost
frail fossil
the sub for pride is a meme
stoic needle
So he controls undeads it and we take the teleporter up but somebody pulled mordretha before we could kill the ghost so we had to fight both at the same time
frail fossil
LOOOOOL
stoic needle
We wiped with the pride at 3%. We killed it and still timed the key
I think now that I'm ilvl 210 people might actually let me in a 15 
been stuck doing 12s and 10s for a bit now
But this is a shit week for keys in general
placid cobalt
sub is not that good in keys, the ST gain over outlaw is not nearly enough to justify the inexistent cleave. There isnt much else to say about it
busted in beta, gutted on retail, will not see much serious play, and niether will assa sadly
stoic needle
@marble hemlock are you going to try sin in keys after this next buff?
azure carbon
How do sims handle execute damage? Is it just not included or is Zoldyck giving a flat 9% damage buff in sims?
dense narwhal
Are we all #sepsisgang?
stoic needle
How do sims handle execute damage? Is it just not included or is Zoldyck giving ...
The sims simulate an actual fight, with the enemy getting into execute range and dying and everything so zoldyck is modeled exactly as it is in practice
jaunty arrow
sub is not that good in keys, the ST gain over outlaw is not nearly enough to ju...
Sub is good on 5+ targets, sure outlaw is better but sub isnt super bad
placid cobalt
problem is consistency
good on 1 target
good on 5+
trash in between u feel me
so 2 mobs, 3 mobs, 4 mobs, not that good
stoic needle
Which is the majority of m+
placid cobalt
im curious to try assa after buff though
dense narwhal
Sin is great 2-4 targets
swift rapids
Outlaws too good in keys
placid cobalt
i memed a +18 for fun a couple weeks back and closed it around 6k overall, with this nerf it might actually be okay
stoic needle
I don't think sin will unseat outlaw as the best spec for keys but I think it's even more than viable now
placid cobalt
*buff
dense narwhal
Sin is pretty versatile overall I feel
stoic needle
The thing about sin is that it doesn't need cooldowns to do its near maximum damage
It's cd is basically only for single target
placid cobalt
i think what blizzard does not realize is that sin requires different weps/leggos etc. compared to outlaw
at high levels, people will not switch if it's not worth it
if you buff it 3 times only to be slightly worse than sub, people will not play it imo
stoic needle
I'm praying for a talent rework in 9.1
dense narwhal
I'm not resistant to change, but assassination is just so ingrained me after all these years
stoic needle
Maybe they will pay attention to it not really being brought in the next MDI even after all of the buffs
dense narwhal
It's like my native language
placid cobalt
tbh what i hate is raiding as outlaw
so inconsistent
if sin was within 100 dps sim, id gladly take it so that every pull i can do the exact same dmg give or take bar crits
jaunty arrow
so 2 mobs, 3 mobs, 4 mobs, not that good
Sure thats why i say outlaw is better. Still i can do ovrall 5,5k sometimes 6k depend on dungeon and pulls.
placid cobalt
but it kills me when i roll 5 buffs on one pull, and buried treasure next
@jaunty arrow tbh i feel none of the rogue spec are really performing that well damage wise, outlaw included. Im rolling a mage for fun and my 214 mage with random trinkets and random stats does the same overall as my 224 rogue with 5 sockets
swift rapids
Outlaw does feel pretty shit in mythic tbh
stoic needle
But our utility 
placid cobalt
i feel like sin could be fun to play in specific keys like ardenweald area of DOS
for example
cos u can crimson tons of mobs
compared to having 20 mobs in front of you but damaging 5 with outlaw
stoic needle
It's good in mists too
placid cobalt
all the dungeons where u get consistently 7-8 mobs i think sin can be somewhat competitive now
stoic needle
I haven't had any trouble in any dungeon except plaguefall but that dungeon just sucks shit no matter what class you are
placid cobalt
the bottom line remains the same tho, if you wanna do big dmg, ure better off rerolling monk rather than agonizing over which rogue spec to play
jaunty arrow
<@!145978762024976385> tbh i feel none of the rogue spec are really performing t...
Agree, I play huntard alt and that burst is so good. Rogue is just nonwanted child kinda its not great but not super bad. Also furry do so much dmg in m+ and get another buff
stoic needle
Yeah but that's not why I'm here. I'm here because I like playing sin
placid cobalt
@stoic needle if you like sin play sin, unless you are pushing 19-20+ keys it doesnt really matter what spec you play
i wish on top of this 5% they added something more to sin, unless it's actually better than sub/outlaw no actual need to reroll to it and commit resources, other than ease of play really
tired adder
<@!502859708504342538> if you like sin play sin, unless you are pushing 19-20+ k...
sin is good for 1-18 u mean ?
jaunty arrow
Its not super good but playable
stoic needle
Keep some soul ash saved up
placid cobalt
i mean, i easily timed an 18 as sin with 4 mins or so left on itmer
with gear u can play anything in 18's
stoic needle
What ilvl are you telarian?
stoic needle
Nice.
strange python
is the sim spreadsheet up to date?
placid cobalt
the problem is, none of the rogue specs are that good going higher tho
strange python
with sin buffs
winter gale
When to use Covenant ability with MA talent?
placid cobalt
like u see top rogues playing 21-22-23 keys and timing them simply because they play with insane players on busted classes, rogue on it's own doesnt have much potential to carry dmg in high keys, even as outlaw
stoic needle
When to use Covenant ability with MA talent?
After getting rupture and slice and dice up
rugged dragon
The only reason outlaw was used in MDI too was only because they could abuse MA with the things in NW
winter gale
Ok, ty for responding entire day 😄
rugged dragon
and the CC
jaunty arrow
Rogue do control than dmg
placid cobalt
@jaunty arrow yeah but this conception of rogue there to do cc is already vanishing after less than 3 months in the expansion. These dungeons, do not require much cc at all compared to bfa, hence a rogue is not required at all
rugged dragon
Exactly
placid cobalt
moving forward, unless tuning changes happen numerically, you will see less and less rogues as top teams realize that they can just bring a monk that does 2k+ extra overall damage and still is able to interrupt/paralyze/sweep/ring
jaunty arrow
True
rugged dragon
Litteraly, why take a rogue when there's WW monk.
placid cobalt
we are no longer in the bfa meta where every pack you need sap blind gauge cheap and kidney (think swarmers packs in underrot)
jaunty arrow
Its same with dk
placid cobalt
there is nothing like that here
stoic needle
I hope that blizzard is paying attention to MDI group compositions and seeing where changes need to be made
grizzled ruin
theres 0 reason to take a rogue-just try pug 14-15 and u ll end 1 hour in que getting declined
placid cobalt
i mean tbh
the actual issue is that they made even shroud useless
in most dungeons
rugged dragon
Like, im litteraly being asked to log my 207 hpally to heal a +15 rather than my friends asking me to join on my 220 outlaw rogue.
placid cobalt
like half our toolkit is negated
rugged dragon
Thats.. just straight up sad.
grizzled ruin
we dont provide anything no raid buff no raid cd
and since our dps is not top
we have no spot
placid cobalt
mark my words, rog will see less and less play
lots of people also play at high level cos they got top geared rogues or followings or are streamers and they make a living playing a certain class
jaunty arrow
mark my words, rog will see less and less play
Depend on how they tuned us
grizzled ruin
unless our dps is undisputed top theres no reason to bring us
placid cobalt
at the moment if you have a magic device that allows you to have any characters in the game maxed out insta, nobody will take rog
rugged dragon
Depend on how they tuned us
No, because if they are brining us to top dps, that means rogue will be overpowered because of the amount of CC and being top dmg.
atleast, thats what people will whine about.
grizzled ruin
or if we get a raid cd thats needed like how smoke bomb used to give 10% dmg reduction
rugged dragon
Yeah, that would be cool.
or like, if you feint. you feint for the whole party.
smthing like that.
jaunty arrow
atleast, thats what people will whine about.
Ppl whine about rogue no matter what
placid cobalt
what needs to happen is one of either 2 things: reword rogue to have actual impactful cooldowns, or nerf hard the classes that do like mage ww boomie hunter
all these classes have 1 thing in common, they press a button and for 10-20-30 seconds they are god on earth destroying everything
pair that with prideful, and it's clear why the meta favors these compositions
rugged dragon
Right now its all about burst meta.
placid cobalt
rogue has nothing like that, hence the damage suffers
grizzled ruin
its not only the dmg-take moonking for example
dispell enrage dispell treants innervate root mass root
off heal
placid cobalt
on my mage i can easily do 40k dps on an 8 mob pack after a prideful, with rogue i need to pray for good rolls to do 12-13k, it's just the way it is
grizzled ruin
i mean they are overloaded-even if they did 10% dmg less they would still be far better
ornate dawn
MFW I read through all this 
stoic needle
I would rather them buff our damage to match boomie and fire mage and ww
placid cobalt
idk what will happen, i just dont think the issue with rogue is necessarily about tuning as much as it is about the lack of proper damage windows as a class, the constant damage profile we got now just doesnt really cut it. Unless they rework the actual specs, it will be like this the whole expansion, i cant really see them buffing anything as far as outlaw is concerned
stoic needle
Let us pump 
placid cobalt
they cannot buff our damage, because our damage is constant you see
they would have to rework adrenaline rush into an actually strong cooldown, and lower our damage outside of it
that way u can adrenaline after pride and do big dmg
but like this, there is no way
if they just buff dmg suddenly we become top parsing spec in raid for no reason
stoic needle
I mean boomkin and ww and fire damage is kinda constant too
halcyon raptor
Assass making a come back yet? (this is my obligatory 2 week check up, not too current with status of rogues)
stoic needle
placid cobalt
boomie does nothing outside of incarn/convoke, neither does mage tbh
halcyon raptor
word up
placid cobalt
thats why the busted, cos every 3 mins they press one button that destroys everything thats in front of them
thats what we need in this meta
stoic needle
Mage gets to have combust up every pack
grizzled ruin
assasin will be viable but at this point into the expansion u ll need diff gear and leggos and everything just to do about the same dmg as u do now on the othert 2 specs
so does it rly worth the effort?for me it doesnt but who knows
placid cobalt
assa needs more to be good imo
atm it's just about rerolling to do same dmg or slightly worse
makes no sense
stoic needle
To be fair you only need a different legendary because outlaw gear does fine as sin
placid cobalt
imagine 5k dust for leggos, different stats, different weapons
stoic needle
The execute niche is very powerful for progression
tired adder
so does it rly worth the effort?for me it doesnt but who knows
but this spec more interesting than outlaw
placid cobalt
to do same dmg
grizzled ruin
yea but i am sub so i need haste gear
stoic needle
But I agree that it does need more
placid cobalt
if they gave it say an additional 5%, and now you have sin topping out/sub
then sure everyone will play it
but right now
stoic needle
I mean it kinda already does
placid cobalt
meh
azure carbon
Does Outlaw gear do fine for Sin though? Idk, seems like Sin wants haste way more, and doesn't value Vers near as high.
stoic needle
With the mechanics in the equation and the execute
stoic needle
Vers and haste are the 2 best stats for single target
placid cobalt
on sim versa is last for me idk
stoic needle
You do need some crit for aoe but the natural amount you get with higher ilvl is usually enough. Depends on which kind of content you are doing
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
stoic needle
Like would you do better with a haste crit focused set? Sure but your haste vers gear is more than fine to do well as sin
stoic needle
I mean yes you need haste for sin
azure carbon
Also most OL's aren't stacking haste, crit is similiar value for ST and is much better for AoE than haste.
So
stoic needle
And the other part of the equation is: who is actually getting their sub sim numbers in practice?
Almost no one
azure carbon
Haste is in practice 3rd for OL.
empty cradle
im just sayin that realistically your gear isn't that non transferrable
stoic needle
It's much easier to reach you sim dps as sin than it is as sub
azure carbon
On a target dummy I hit within 5% of my Sub sim number almost every time.
stoic needle
On a target dummy
I'm talking about in a key or on a log
I can tell you that I've been matching or beating sub rogues with the same ilvl as me in heroic pugs for weeks now
Nathria is just not a good raid for sub compared to sin
People hyperfocus on sim numbers too much when they never get close to them in practice when it matters
azure carbon
Yeah, nathria is a trash raid for Sub.
Only fight that is particularly good for Sub imo is Sludge, and even then its outclassed.
short hamlet
Nathria is just not a good raid for sub compared to sin
nathria is custom tailor for range (well, what isn't nowadays) and classes with great cleave. sub just isn't that. i encounter this every week in my raids. single target fights i'm competitive but just get spanked on cleave fights
stoic needle
I really think they need to buff sub's single target
It's not fair that we are getting buffs but sub isn't
I don't like that sin is so close to sub now, it's not a good thing for the class as a whole
lean geyser
So with the new buffs coming Tuesday will this help assassination now?
fleet whale
sub is in an odd spot because of it's damage profile
it actually sims really high atm
empty cradle
everything has to go perfectly for sub though
azure carbon
Part of sub simming high is Rogue just has better theory crafters than other specs.
strange python
Yeah, sub doesn’t need a single target buff - it needs cleave damage
fleet whale
the spec honestly isn't built very well for progression raiding
no cleave
bad aoe
uptime reliant
stoic needle
I don't think that sub should be good at everything
azure carbon
Up until like 3 weeks ago Affliction locks literally did more sim damage on 1 target then 2 targets. LOL.
empty cradle
i kinda wanna try sin next week
stoic needle
Giving it a cleave buff means there's no reason to play other specs
strange python
It has almost no gain on 3 targets
versed thicket
How is sin vs outlaw in raid guys?
empty cradle
i got asked to swap to my mage or monk cuz subs not the greatest in later fights
fleet whale
yeah that's why its in an odd spot
stoic needle
That's fine, but it should be an omega giga pumper on single target to compensate
Un-nerf akaaris imo
fleet whale
sin should be really good for sire after this buff
lean geyser
Will sin be better now with this buff next week?
ornate dawn
i mean its a buff it cant be worse eh
empty cradle
pins show its close
stoic needle
versed thicket
Ok ry
empty cradle
6700 vs 6550
but thats 6700 with akari which most ppl dont use'
so its probably closer than that
azure carbon
Blizzard also scared to make Sub too good in PvE because they are terrified of them in PvP. Although, they were fine with Arms, being the best DPS class in PvP, getting an aura buff.
stoic needle
The PvP argument is just not valid
empty cradle
arms isnt the best pvp dps class
fleet whale
they can tune pve separate from pvp
empty cradle
theyre the best at stopping everything
short hamlet
Blizzard also scared to make Sub too good in PvE because they are terrified of t...
its so simple to deal with that. they can just do aura buff/nerf pve/pvp. they do it all the time
stoic needle
Because you can balance pvp separately from pve
empty cradle
since they have like 40 different answers
stoic needle
Sin is pretty meh in pvp so I'm fine with that
short hamlet
all they'd have to do is give (just wildly making up numbers here) +20% damage in dance in pve, -20% damage in dance in pvp
so pvp stays the same
pve buff
they did it with arms like 3 weeks ago
stoic needle
Exactly
stoic needle
Like I said, un-nerf akaaris
azure carbon
And any time Sub is slightly strong in PvP they are like isnta nerfed.
stoic needle
100% full combo points again
versed thicket
There is no comparation between outlaw and sin in raid checking pins
stoic needle
I genuinely think there's someone on the balance team who just hates rogues
short hamlet
sub is also in a weird spot because it's super unforgiving -- untill you learn to time your dance rotations right with mechanics and whatnot you can really hard gimp your self
nocturne orchid
are we back?
short hamlet
compared to other underperforming melee specs
lean geyser
Good question is sin back
short hamlet
pins
stoic needle
versed thicket
Outlaw vs sin is non pinned
lean geyser
So from the pins yes
nocturne orchid
FUCK YEAH
stoic needle
Sim it
nocturne orchid
welp now i'll have to gear up for sin now
void pecan
Gotta have daggers to play sin :(
jaunty arrow
Gotta have daggers to play sin :(
Nope but rip mutilate :pepeclown-1:
short hamlet
i will say
i tried sin today
after playing it a small amount in bfa/legion
it feels really gutted
versed thicket
So still shit compared to outlaw?
stoic needle
3% less is not what I would call shit
azure carbon
Idk that I'd say its shit. I think its likely viable.
short hamlet
So still shit compared to outlaw?
So still shit compared to outlaw? monk
fixed for you
versed thicket
So after 5% buff sin will reach outlaw dps in m+?
ornate dawn
Viable in the mid-shit tier tho
jaunty arrow
Do u read pin?
versed thicket
Yes still dont find the comparation between ol and sin
jaunty arrow
U can sim it for yourself
versed thicket
How can i do it adding 5%?
brittle pawn
A fucking calculator
azure carbon
3.5%, to be more accurate.
versed thicket
A fucking calculator
I got pumpkin at high school
jaunty arrow
Raidbots Nightly now includes the Assassination hotfix based on assumed values prior to Tuesday. So sims should now reflect the expected performance after the hotfix.
versed thicket
Ok ty raizen
azure carbon
Does it? My Raidbots says its running the hotfix from 2021-01-20.
Should be 3.5% low, as buffs were announced the 29th.
jaunty arrow
Does it? My Raidbots says its running the hotfix from 2021-01-20.
I copy text from tc updates
stoic needle
I think that might be the last 5%
But you can calculate it easy, just subtract melee and trinket and other non-ability damage
And add 5%
jaunty arrow
Its w/e kinda we will see at 9.1 what happend
azure carbon
Also worth noting that the sim from the pins has a database override.
Might only be for premium users?
brittle pawn
You copied the text from Jan 10 in that channel doofus
stoic needle
It's just a custom string
exotic sundial
We are back baby lol
jaunty arrow
You copied the text from Jan 10 in that channel doofus
Sry mb 
arctic brook
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
stoic needle
override.spell_data="effect.179721.base_value=51"
override.spell_data="effect.191052.base_value=51"
Paste this at at the end of your simc input in an advanced sim in raidbots
And you can sim for yourself with the aura buff
open swift
holy
stoic needle
Don't need premium to do that
open swift
sin rogue was just picked in the awc and it dominated
jaunty arrow
Might only be for premium users?
Nope i miss date mb dude
stoic needle
