that like removes the debuff or something
#assassination
fleet whale
fleet whale
for rogue, 3x shadowstep cd reduction
and first steps
like every 10 secs i get a massive finisher
spice pebble
Honestly though I feel like the best powers right now are the % stats when you give up another element
fleet whale
yeah those are op
fleet whale
i sadly can't take the 25% haste with nature damage reduction though
or just a crap ton of traits increasing your secondary stats
spice pebble
25% envenom is nasty
fleet whale
yeah that one is great
spice pebble
if you stack it
fleet whale
tbh the one trait that actually becomes kind of week as you climb up levels in TC
is jack of all trades
spice pebble
Power management is almost more important than iLvl. I don't often see low ilvl players do great, but I often see high ilvl people under-perform in torghast.
fleet whale
i mean ilvl does help if nothing else cause of the extra stam and hp
and that scales
spice pebble
yea I haven't done the big boy tower yet. just normal mode
royal lantern
wasnt the problem that the gate was not enough, but you needed the gate anyway
i dont remember 100%anymore
i just know that priest was fucked
cus they could not do it
fleet whale
idk kj was changed a lot and i never did it on mythic
but my brother did and gates were op
but he was like in a world 400 guild
and KJ had a million nerfs
spice pebble
yea, not sad that I missed that. sounds painful
fleet whale
my main issue with kj
was the absurdly long first intermission
also, blizz designed that fight around classes burning immunities to make it even possible to do
like ice block, cloak, turtle
so in reality, you didn't have cloak of shadows as a rogue, or ice block as a mage
spice pebble
I guess kudos to them for trying new things, despite how old the game is
toxic tusk
Hey guys. Still playing around with simming, but we're going to run a heroic castle tonight. Is there an easy answer as to which potion to use for dps? Phantom Fire or Deadly Fixation?
Disregard!
royal lantern
if you use oils phantom fire
if not agility
but like, sim it, it will tell you whats best for you
balmy condor
if you use oils phantom fire
Actually not even that easy
Oil + stone + agi is actually also good
Basically any combination of not double oil, and not excor pots
fleet whale
deathly fixation is actually the meta don't @ me
strange python
Does bone spike stack with doomblade lego?
mighty onyx
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
topaz saffron
Anyone else feeling the sting of You have been removed from the group when they notice your spec?
stoic needle
Nope
balmy condor
Does bone spike stack with doomblade lego?
No
stoic needle
I have never been removed from a key for being sin
It sucks if that happened to you, but they were probably saving you some time anyway. Anyone who's dumb enough to kick you from a key for being sin is probably gonna play like shit anyway
mighty onyx
word^
royal lantern
people dont check your spec
like, they wont even notice a difference most of the time lol
oblique flare
a lot of people look for carries anyway, like when they say X rio, but there is nowhere in hell for you to have that rio without doing all the dungeons above that particular key, or when they're 5/10hc or smth and ask for curved only
stoic needle
I've been slowly getting my rio up by targeting keys that I haven't timed or have a low key for and I've been getting declined from groups less and less lately
plain spruce
I see alot of Sin players use Insignia, doesnt Dashing Sim Higher?
raven egret
dashing is barely higher on pure single
plain spruce
im guessing insignia wins out in aoe
raven egret
zoldyck gives us a niche and wins on everything with 2 or more targets
and is just in general better
if you only play assa you can make both
but id make zoldyck
plain spruce
on legs im guessing
native turtle
Use the tried and true technique utilized by Feral druids. Whenever you apply to groups be Outlaw (or balance spec for druids)
then once you get inside go assass!
spiral salmon
was testing assa on dummy for 7 minutes, 20% of my dmg from auto attacks
but Im guessing it will be quite a bit lower once I craft legendary and apply conduits next reset, still surprisingly high
spiral salmon
yeah was at 1k versa
but changed to bit more haste now
since its simming highetr
but gonna play around with assa in 2s for fun so versa aint bad
low girder
it's a bit high but even with good stats you'll still be around 15% on a single target
sin just has a lot of AA dmg now
balmy condor
20% seems high
spiral salmon
think its just cause of versa stack and that I havent made the legendary / conduit tree
but after that it will probably be at 15% or so, still really high
warped junco
i was shocked today to see that envenom got to 16% dmg done on one fight and aa 15%
raven egret
yea I mean a lot of time you have slice and just refresh dots and stuff
but its still high
balmy condor
i was shocked today to see that envenom got to 16% dmg done on one fight and aa ...
Yeah that seems reasonable
You’ll get that on stuff like sludge
Where you specifically hold burst for abilities like envenom
raven egret
im still not sure if ma or subterfuge is better on sludge
ma sims better for me in normal st
rigid wyvern
Why would subterfuge be better on sludge? MA concentrates all the damage from the talent into a burst window while subterfuge is over 18s
balmy condor
im still not sure if ma or subterfuge is better on sludge
Ma for sure
raven egret
yeah just thought garrote would be more damage for some reason
ma makes sense though
stoic needle
If only exsang were good
balmy condor
yeh exsang succccks
raven egret
sukkk
balmy condor
reduce the cd to 30 sec, probably really good then
raven egret
but alacrity
raven egret
i assume its hard to change cds like that in apl
storm onyx
Sludge dmg window is 20 secs, I would have guessed subterfuge break even to ma ... mistaken?
low girder
yeah it's not 20s
balmy condor
slude is def 12
balmy condor
i'd be curious if you simmed that
well...........................................................................
low girder
lmao
raven egret
bet alacrity would win
low girder
right now yeah, i'd imagine it'd be close-ish though
raven egret
i can count to 100 faster than my energy bar without alacrity
gusty hollow
Is ilv 198 and doin around 3k on taget dummy okay? Feel so weak :(
balmy condor
yeh that seems ok
raven egret
3k on dummy is pretty okay
gusty hollow
Hmm its sad that sin is in a bad spot :(
balmy condor
right now yeah, i'd imagine it'd be close-ish though
exsang went from 6.5 casts to 9.2 casts with the change
can you guess
the gain in %
default is 7% down
new is?
rigid wyvern
14% down
low girder
4% down
balmy condor
SIX percent
low girder
lmfao
rigid wyvern
lol
balmy condor
low girder
aight it needs something else then
balmy condor
14% down
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gXDbKdP4uhfQxrRArUqEW I can do you one better
gusty hollow
Old exsang with 400%?
balmy condor
that's with exsang on a 1 second cd
rigid wyvern
lol
low girder
lmfao
balmy condor
low girder
jesus
rigid wyvern
I mean fundamentally exsang just isnt actually more damage
raven egret
nice rotation
balmy condor
yeah
exsang isn't a dps gain because it's exsang
its a dps gain because you get more ticks in damage windows
pretty much
some extra ticks
raven egret
make it 3
balmy condor
what if we add 2000 haste baseline
can do
raven egret
no but try anyway
low girder
you'd hit a pretty hefty dr
low girder
true
balmy condor
but I doubt 2k haste rating would be enough to come close to it
tbh
anyway
30 second?
10?
low girder
10 prolly
balmy condor
as you wish
low girder
wait not viable, optimal
gusty hollow
This is the most insane group ever
balmy condor
we're getting somewhere
stoic needle
Jesus
balmy condor
54% haste
stoic needle
That's sad
raven egret
go 10k haste?
balmy condor
how much haste
raven egret
do it real
low girder
holy fuck this talent is dogshit
rigid wyvern
aight
low girder
i knew it was bad but not this bad
rigid wyvern
I have an idea for an exsang rework
stoic needle
rigid wyvern
Make it a stacking buff that adds tick rate + damage, then its basically just trying to keep your dots up until its unsustainable and it falls off
low girder
rotational thing maybe
balmy condor
my guess is that the gcd casting exsang is not worth the loss of gcd
raven egret
does alacrity not DR your haste
stoic needle
my guess is that the gcd casting exsang is not worth the loss of gcd
Y i k e s
stoic needle
Oh interesting
rigid wyvern
Alright simple solution, to make exsang better we make envenom worse big brain time
balmy condor
AYYYYYYYYYYYY
raven egret
go big
balmy condor
BACK TO -1.4%
low girder
just buff rupture by 50%
raven egret
GAINS
low girder
lmao
rigid wyvern
just make all our other gcds worse so exsang is worth it
gusty hollow
does alacrity not DR your haste
What is DR?
balmy condor
poggggggggggggers
raven egret
diminishing returns
gusty hollow
diminishing returns
Cool ty
balmy condor
@low girder but I mean, 10 second exsang is insane, so lets just make it back to 45
and uh
oh
gusty hollow
So hardcap on haste and 35% crit?
rigid wyvern
Whispyr come on
stoic needle
What about with mastery?
rigid wyvern
amatuer mistake you have to go troll for 10% haste racial
balmy condor
126%
stoic needle
Bruh
low girder
lol
rigid wyvern
same
stoic needle
How does crit make exsang worse
low girder
what if you make exsang 400% again
rigid wyvern
so does envenom
raven egret
but yea
low girder
with all that haste
rigid wyvern
crit scales everything equally
raven egret
exang gcd is worth less
balmy condor
raven egret
with crit
balmy condor
rip
stoic needle
Wtf lmao
raven egret
no
rigid wyvern
exsang bad
raven egret
exang good
stoic needle
This is why we need vein rippers
balmy condor
oh and that's with zoldyck
raven egret
is that with sub or ma
stoic needle
Exsang can't be saved
gusty hollow
What about muti leggo
stoic needle
What about with nightstalker
rigid wyvern
That would be worse
rigid wyvern
I mean with 5 billion haste you are gonna overwrite the bleed anyway lol
gusty hollow
Sim it senpai Whispyr
low girder
ye i just mean i don't think exsang works with it
balmy condor
I'm queuing into an aram
stoic needle
Nightstalker
gusty hollow
Muti leggo
gusty hollow
But its a bleed
gusty hollow
Oh Rip
stoic needle
Bruh wtf
stoic needle
It's unaffected by exsang?
rigid wyvern
even if it was I cant imagine you wouldnt overwrite the exsang on your next muti
stoic needle
That's such trash
raven egret
or are you using it
balmy condor
even if it was I cant imagine you wouldnt overwrite the exsang on your next muti
this
stoic needle
Why does Blizzard hate fun
gusty hollow
Stacking mute lego bleed every time you use it
balmy condor
it's using subterfuge right now
rigid wyvern
like we arent gonna just not mut for 8s to keep our exsang mut bleed lol
raven egret
reee
balmy condor
I guess now that we have infinite haste
we can change to deeper
and ep
and see if that makes a difference
raven egret
🙏
rigid wyvern
less gcds to spend on ambush seems good
balmy condor
yeh no
raven egret
fuck
rigid wyvern
this is the high quality theorycrafting you get from the assassination channel
low girder
i just love exsang and want it to be good
rigid wyvern
I think its really cool
gusty hollow
this is the high quality theorycrafting you get from the assassination channel
Well if blizz dont wanna do it we gotta
raven egret
exang needs to give us 999k haste
low girder
well yeah i just mean some bleed buffs, most likely
similar to SS or the old rupture buff thing that was useful for 0.5 tiers before PB exploded via mastery
rigid wyvern
just give us unceasing chain link / first steps
low girder
well and agonizing poison but we don't talk about that
rigid wyvern
problem solved massive bleeds
gusty hollow
Can toy Change the spell % so we could try 300 or 400% faster bleeds from exsang
balmy condor
well
gusty hollow
Rip
low girder
it won't change anything prolly yeah
gusty hollow
You gotta believe
low girder
i was just throwing shit out
we've done the 400% exsang thing before i think
at other times when it was bad
rigid wyvern
realistically I just dont see exsang ever doing more dps cause it doesnt add damage.
it only changes the damage profile
I mean technically it adds damge cause you get more ruptures off in a fight
gusty hollow
I got an idea. What if it was a passive talent that had some % chance to tick twice but not faster and on All bleeds and poison
low girder
yeah it adds dmg via more rupture ticks
stoic needle
Listen
raven egret
the problem with exsang is alacrity
stoic needle
I've said it before
low girder
but rupture sucks, therefore more ruptures vs 10% haste is bad
raven egret
rip veins
stoic needle
Or maybe just Vein Ripper
rigid wyvern
I dont think you can 1-1 translate vein rippers cause its too mcuh burst
stoic needle
In the singular
rigid wyvern
but I would like to see big bleed procs that do like 10% of the duration or something
stoic needle
Our bleeds don't hit that hard
rigid wyvern
Its 8.8k based on tool tip for non-subterfuge full garrote + rupture
stoic needle
That's not that much
stoic needle
Maybe the agi wouldn't be included
rigid wyvern
I mean if its not aoe how much agi are you getting?
balmy condor
(notice how in my rework, I gave a ton more bleed damage)
rigid wyvern
isnt it like 1% per bleed?
stoic needle
8.8k is pennies compared to monks with their 16k rsk
Which is instant
Compared to dozens of seconds of dots
I just mean to say that full 100% dot finish wouldn't be that OP
Based on current bleed dmg
raven egret
i guess it would be a cool talent
rigid wyvern
Quick topic shift
raven egret
but exang
stoic needle
I mean VR is just instant exsang
raven egret
:(
rigid wyvern
If we arent the single target spec, why is our main damage CD single target only
gusty hollow
New talent for 5 target vend?
raven egret
i mean that kinda doesnt make sense but i doubt it would even be op
rigid wyvern
its awkward cause I like the see through concealments and stuff on vendetta in pvp
but its annoying for pve
low girder
what if we remove snd
rigid wyvern
no
raven egret
give us passive snd
gusty hollow
Kek
raven egret
other specs have it too
gusty hollow
Not sure what it is but somehow you csn mange to only apply 1 snd in outlaw. Perhaps give it to sin too?
stoic needle
That would be bringing back cut to the chase
balmy condor
that would be grand melee
but yeh
don't passive snd
either remove the button or get rid of it
(the thing is, it's the same thing)
stoic needle
How about this
low girder
we turning sin into wod sub?
low girder
i mean i'm down
stoic needle
Since multistrike is pretty much gone from the game I wouldn't mind it
low girder
might even get me to change my mind on my favourite rogue spec if done right
stoic needle
In my mind, assassination is like... Infrequent huge hits and dots in-between
Sub is set windows of big hits and then downtime
Outlaw is sustained dps
stoic needle
That's why I kinda like vein rippers in sin, it's like you're actually assasinating someone
For which spec?
low girder
for sin if you wanna do an old sinister calling type thing
raven egret
man this is some cool stuff
good thing blizardo will probably just be like
ok rupture 10% dam
enjoy
nothing changes
low girder
i'm just thinking because the way sub worked when it was like that, your aoe was soul cap
lol
faint harness
@balmy condor you still on that exsang train
stoic needle
Idk, maybe it doesn't need to spread to aoe
The idea of assasinating several people at once doesn't quite make sense
If they just buffed PB and made small scale uncapped aoe our niche I think that would be fine
raven egret
exsang :(
rigid wyvern
Does oil beat stones if you are using pots?
Well its its simming at a 2dps difference
so looks like a wash
glass breach
what dmg does sepsis classify as? would its dmg stack with mastery?
glass breach
rip
fleet whale
Shiv does buff it however
ornate gazelle
Sin with PI 😮
devout temple
im lookin for a alt to play in m+, but i want to to be a niche/meme spec for that. But also not be really bad. Was thinkin assasin, arms, or ele? Which is best of those 3
calm dome
Probably Elem sham
Because of the non trolling dmgs and the fact you can bring lust
Arms pretty good but the group will rather take a DK instead of...
devout temple
maybe some hope for Sin next patch?
calm dome
Assassin is very very niche and you can be called a troll when people inspect at you
calm dome
Every Assassins are hoping for a rework for next patch . Sure we are happy with the recents buff but this spec is still not competitive enough and slower in term of gameplay
balmy condor
I don't think people are clamoring for a rework tbh
calm dome
Modified :
Maybe people are hoping for SOME rework of the spec , making the spec a bit more punchy
But everybody would love some positives change for Assasin for the next patch
stone epoch
I don't want a rework so much as one or two little additions to make things flow a little better
calm dome
100% agree .
Not a total rework, just fews adjustments
balmy condor
I remain of the opinion that if sin were doing big damage
not one soul would be bitching about the spec
signal gulch
i just want my bleeds to do damage so i can run a legendary that changes gameplay in some way
calm dome
@balmy condor
Very true
I can give my humble situation as exemple
I love Assasin so much and I love M+
I couldnt do impressive damages even with a good rotation and a pretty high ilvl at the time .
Couldn compete with other spec .
Plus I got kicked and trash talked because of playing Assasin .
Then I decide to roll Outlaw .
I was able to adapt and progress in higher Keys, simple because OL make more damages and at the end of the day :
You need big damages to achiev PvE content
stoic needle
Sadly none of our legendaries change our gameplay in any way
Rotations stay the same, stat prios stay the same
calm dome
Some legendaries grants us damage boost which is what we need xD
stoic needle
But idk like i said earlier if someone kicks you and talks shit for playing sin, they're going you a favor
They 100% are not a good player themselves
calm dome
Maybe because Assasin is not played much anymore , and with the logs showing us on the bottom tiers.
Most of the players will laugh at Assasin Rogues and Survival Hunts
stoic needle
yeah that doesn't really happen in practice
i hold my own on the meters in every pug i've done and lots of people comment on it
calm dome
I am sure you do ,
I am just saying in Mythic Keys, once you reach 11 / 12 / 13 , things get spicy and Assasin DPS cant keep up .
Unless OVER geared plus a perfect execution of the rotation / trinket / pots etc etc
north basin
So third cd incoming after buffs, will we see more assa in mythic top 100 rogue logs?
north basin
I should say will we see at least one assa in top 100 i see ))
balmy condor
probably not
shy dust
not one soul would be bitching about the spec
A spec can be clunky and do big damage
I’m sure people would complain about sin even if it did big damage
It’s made worse by it’s not damage being subpar though
But to say no one would be complaining about the spec being clunky if it did lots of damage is asine
shy dust
It’s not always about it being slow
It’s about it just being clunky
The addition of SnD was not executed well for assassination
balmy condor
frankly I just disagree
SND fits into the rotation equally as clunky or smooth as sub and outlaw
it's not "clunky" for those guys
balmy condor
so?
shy dust
Do you see
balmy condor
you're telling me you can't replace an envenom every now and then?
shy dust
How that makes it feel better for the spec?
I’m telling you that it makes it feel worse
For a spec that’s slow
balmy condor
how
balmy condor
where it...... doesn't do white damage?
shy dust
balmy condor
okay
shy dust
We can agree to disagree
But it’s absolutely moronic to say
People would think sim is perfectly fine
balmy condor
I don't see how flowing with cp = snd bad
shy dust
If it had competitive damage
shy dust
Flowing with cp makes it feel not as bad
balmy condor
why though
shy dust
Because it’s not as noticable to be losing casts of your damage finishers
Also it has a direct interaction with a mechanic of the spec
Besides more white damage
shy dust
It be like that sometimes
balmy condor
I think it actually feels better in sin than sub
cause you can actually plan ahead much farther in sin
shy dust
And it is fast paced to begin with
balmy condor
cause you don't have damage windows
shy dust
So losing out on eviscerates is not felt as much
From a gameplay point of view
I don’t understand what is so hard about seeing for a slow spec to have added another maintenance finisher can be clunky
BFA sin was amazing gameplay wise
balmy condor
because its a spec about maintenance, which has pretty much 1 maintenance buff (I mean, garrote barely counts, lets get real), now getting a second maintenance buff
and all of a sudden everyone losing their minds that they gotta cast it 8 times
oh no
my 75k envenom damage
shy dust
You press garrote and maintain it
That’s a maintenance buff
Unless you don’t think rtb is one
balmy condor
rtb has at least reroll and changes to your rotation
shy dust
And yes from a how a spec feels
balmy condor
garrote you monke brain hit it like a generator and its good enough
shy dust
Do you not understand how
Replacing more of your damage finishers with more auto attacks
Can feel worse to some players
balmy condor
well if you don't care about the damage numbers
then why you care about your treasured envenoms
balmy condor
I care about damage numbers, personally
therefore
I enjoy hitting slice
I like slice
slice is fine
shy dust
You care about numbers but play sin?
Also when speaking from a spec feeling clunky
Does that usually involve dps numbers
balmy condor
Yes, because I play what I enjoy over playing what is the best
shy dust
People don’t think a spec is clunky because of low damage
balmy condor
no, I don't think it is
shy dust
And what they think of the gameplay loop
So what is someone thinking a spec is clunky to you
balmy condor
people see low damage, and they find a reason to bitch about it
the complaint this time is slice
balmy condor
and that's fine
balmy condor
and I welcome that
if people have legitimate complaints about the gameplay loop
that's fine
shy dust
But you brush it all aside
shy dust
balmy condor
but a lot of people
literally just want to complain about something
and they will search
for something to blame
shy dust
A lot of people seem to complain about SnD
balmy condor
correct
balmy condor
that's the meta complaint atm
shy dust
Unless you think we knew the viability of specs back when they announced the unpruning
balmy condor
I don't think we knew
shy dust
And yet people complained about SnD
balmy condor
but it's hard to say that people hadn't made their mind up on beta
about sin
from day 1 sin was pronounced dead and gone
rip exped
unplayable
"it's too slow" they said
with an APM higher than 3 tiers into bfa
balmy condor
I agree
but I also think that additionally, if the damage is there, the amount of complaints about clunk will also drop
shy dust
Sure it will drop but it’ll still be a noticeable crowd I’d say
balmy condor
well that's my entire point
the people who have legitimate complaints will complain
but there's a meta atm to shit on the clunk of sin
arctic walrus
sin has played the same for a long long time and there has always been complains about the spec, no matter the damage it was doing at that point in a tier
balmy condor
increase the amount of players by 10x, you won't see 10x the complaints about clunk
because ooh shiny damage
this is great
clunk? nah
I do the big dam
shy dust
I mean people focus on damage numbers a lot
balmy condor
THATS THE POINT
shy dust
With your statement of
shy dust
A spec can be clunky and do big damage
!
balmy condor
I mean people focus on damage numbers a lot
b
shy dust
And I’m saying people would rightfully complain
balmy condor
They’re blind sided bt that a lot
ruh.
balmy condor
YES
shy dust
Yes they can be blinded sided by it’s low damage
balmy condor
IF SIN DID DAMAGE
shy dust
And yet it’s still a legit complaint
shy dust
And no they wouldn’t
balmy condor
SIR WHAT
shy dust
It adds more magnitude to the issue
balmy condor
big fucking whoop
proportionally it would go down
because people see dam
and go monke
shy dust
shy dust
I said it would go down
shy dust
But there would still be a noticeable crowd
Not that it would all disappear like you said before
shy dust
And disregarding legitimate issues about a spec
balmy condor
yeah but we disagree that it's a legitimate issue
my entire point
my only point
is that it would go down
and we agree on that
if you think I worded it wrong
my bad
shy dust
Clunky spec
balmy condor
but that was literally the only thing
shy dust
I now leave for the meta specs
balmy condor
that I was saying
fiery folio
Hey, im wondering, What legendary should i go for as for singletarget?
balmy condor
you should go zoldyck
fiery folio
Zoldyck for both m+
And raid? Is it anygood for pvp?
spiral salmon
was thinking of making dashing scoundrel for pvp
for 2s as holy pala / rogue
but only at around 1700 mmr so anything works I guess
spiral salmon
man, I have 88 mastery on my gear and mastery is simming at 66% compared to haste, they shoudl have bumped up the mastery scaling slightly instead of flat % buff tbh
make bleeds / poison bit stronger, the spec identity
yea dashing
its simming highest single target and seems good to keep up high pressure, also just seems more fun tbh
Im a filthy casual so fun is ok
stoic needle
Dashing isn't very good for pvp
You don't get uptime on targets reliably enough to benefit from it significantly
It would be worse than MA and zoldyck
balmy condor
it also gives mostly energy
stoic needle
If you want pressure from a sin leggo you'd want doomblade
balmy condor
which you don't need
when you're trying to burst
also would think that even if the crit chance was a big damage gain, which it isn't
you're not using deadly
you're using wound
and I don't think that's particularly a lot of damage
echo crystal
Is there ever any reason to be assassin? I'm thinking if it should still just be ignored for the 2 other specs. Having a hard time figuring out if the continued bad logs are just the lack of good players playing the spec, or it's still not good
balmy condor
because you find it fun, or for execute damage
it still remains the worst overall spec
normal spoke
anyone test exsanguinate with MA lego and vanishing?
balmy condor
why is that a trending idea
people been kinda asking about vanishing exsang'd dots lately
bit weird
exsang is the worst talent in that row
and MA is a worse legendary than zoldyck
and vanishing (to just sit there and abuse the duration) is also just bad
the combination is also bad
raven egret
i mean exsang is worse even if you have 126% haste and crit all the time with exsang having no cooldown
:(
balmy condor
happens
hollow escarp
is MA even that good for assa pvp?
especially in a meta where rogues vanish defensively
balmy condor
you vanish for nightstalker envenoms atm
and try to get some enven mfd enven action going
hopefully nuking
hollow escarp
I see, I've been having hard times staying alive most of the time 
pliant apex
Should I bother making 235 Lego over current 225? Or is the dps gain negligible
raven egret
you can sim the dps gain but its not a crazy amount
if you want to craft something else go for it
versed thicket
Is assa playable or no in m+?
strange python
heyhey folks, had a question about one of our 'best' legendaries is cant seem to find an answer to anywhere
calm dome
There is some infos in the pinned messages
strange python
yep, about as helpful as anywhere else ive looked
the Dashing Scoundrel power that causes 'Envenom to also increase the crit chance of your poisons by 15% and their crits generate 1 energy' doesnt list any duration, has no tooltip or buff that ive noticed, and there's no way to really test if its functional at all... i guess my question is, envenom being an instant attack... how tf does this work? cuz it cant be the 'duration' of envenom?
iron orchid
envenom leaves a debuff on your target
Which increases proc rate of your poison
you can track the duration of this debuff, which would be the same for DS leggo
strange python
the normal debuff that makes poisons more likely to hit? thats part of the normal move. if the legendary only lasts as llng as that debuff, that seems terrible in use. and still incredibly vague and never mentions anything about the legendary.
iron orchid
Well, it's quite clear imo, the debuff is literally called "Envenom" so the worst you could do is misinterpret Envenom for the instant damage part instead of the debuff (what you did exactly).
And yeah, the legendary is not that powerful if you do not maximize the uptime of the Envenom debuff on the target
which makes it viable in pure ST situation, but gradually less powerful the more you have to cleave
strange python
blizzard really could have done a lot better with some tooltips this time around.
iron orchid
blizzard really could have done a lot better with some tooltips this time around...
Yup, this expansion they tooltiped many things poorly
strange python
true, so its slightly less terribel for cleave since switching would carry it over, just... the 1s per combo seems.... painfully small. thats about 12 hits with slice up...
iron orchid
envenom is a buff, not a debuff
got this wronng sorry
iron orchid
true, so its slightly less terribel for cleave since switching would carry it ov...
the problem is you usually use less envenoms when there are more than one target
strange python
its still my go to dump if everything still has tempest up... but i could see that. i just wish the envenom buff would say something about the increased crit... like yea, the legendary says thts what it does... but i dont see it happeneing. you know? like, where?
spice spire
I’m personally ready to be disappointed about the lack of weapons that drop from the weekly chest 
tender sable
I have zero weapons drops for several weeks. Not even from vault, I got 2 200 ilvl weapons total. All I have I bought from pvp.
I’m ready for things to remain constant
spice spire
I got a 210 week one of mythics and nothing since then. My body is very ready
rigid pine
I got 226 tanglewood thorn on my birthday two weeks ago 
topaz saffron
Not a single weapon sighting in my Vault too. 200 and 194 for weeks now 😭
fading wigeon
Have you done rbgs? It's pretty easy to get to 1600. Then you can upgrade PvP weapons to 213
serene basin
you can get to 1800 if you get a good teammate on 2x2
tender sable
you can get to 1800 if you get a good teammate on 2x2
And here I’m sitting on 1250 with equal games played...
stoic needle
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
iron orchid
It is only half an hour till my NA sin boys get to open the Vault, right ?
plain thistle
it was 30 min ago actually
stoic needle
220 rainshadow hauberk
still no phial 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d1ycvG7j4NeJXShFpT8M1N i sim at 5.2k now for single target
deadly poison steadily pulling away from melee damage
iron orchid
Well, if i were to get this tomorrow morning, that would be a 1.1 or 1.2 % dps gain, which is nice, but i get it when you say you wanted a phial x)
stoic needle
Yeah it was a 74 dps upgrade which is about as good as it gets, only the Phial or like a dreadfire or a weapon would be a bigger upgrade now that I think about it
I think it's partly because I'm getting sick of the skulker's lol
stoic needle
Somehow, it's never killed me
wary ice
I keep getting memed on margreave
stoic needle
But it hits the wrong target pretty frequently
wary ice
I just gotta not press it :(
wary ice
But it hits the wrong target pretty frequently
Always*
stoic needle
Why in gods name did they not make it attack your current target
It's like they just want it to be frustrating for no reason
wary ice
I like it in concept - but yeah its very finnicky and its animation is either incredibly jarring or completely unnoticeable
I just hammer it on CD and hope to see it in my meters later on
stoic needle
It does hit like a truck though when it actually works
I have the heroic version and have had it hit for like 20k
spice spire
T minus 5 hours until disappointment
wary ice
I have the heroic version and have had it hit for like 20k
Yeh same its making up a solid like 3%~ of my damage
also heroic version
stoic needle
It does more damage than poison bomb
I'm not gonna lie I'm super hype for first strike next week. I think it's gonna make sin aoe feel a lot better
With the MA talent we get 2/3 of the legendary without actually having it equipped which is kinda funny to me
wary ice
My Assa build rn is MA talent w/ MA leggo
Because the specs a meme
and Master-er assassin makes me laugh
(Also im working on getting ash for Zoldyks rn)
stoic needle
Lol
I wish that crit chance past 100% increased crit damage like crit works for chaos bolt for warlocks
That would be kinda cool
Since vanish takes you out of combat, do you get another first strike proc since you're technically damaging them before they damage you again? 
warped heath
Thinking of swapping back to assassination once I get my pvp weapons. Any advice? I find myself fighting outlaw's rotation.
stoic needle
Come home, brother
warped heath
Been assassination since vanilla. felt bad to swap due to weapon drops
stoic needle
What weapons do you have?
warped heath
right now, I am 184 / 187 swords
stoic needle
Oh buddy
warped heath
my daggers are 184 / 156
stoic needle
You can get 200 conquest daggers this week easy
2 of them
Also, have you completed the covenant campaign?
You get a LFR weapon token
wary ice
Since vanish takes you out of combat, do you get another first strike proc since...
Firs strike procs once and only once to my understanding
its not tied to combat
mortal scaffold
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
warped heath
Working towards those daggers now. Is the wowhead guide for assassination up to date? I read it when the xpac started, but been outlaw once my 184 weapons dropped
visual kelp
whats haste cap for sin? anyone know
fleet whale
There is no haste cap
visual kelp
thanks
unreal parcel
is assass or sub a better offspec if i main outlaw with a priority on haste
stoic needle
your outlaw gear will be better for sin than for sub
raven egret
haste versa isnt terrible for sub but yes sin
plain thistle
haste versa isnt terrible for sin lol
unreal parcel
riri im looking more into straight single target fights
sub feels too punishing on some single target fights. im happy with outlaw but want to open up some options to swap just in case
stoic needle
if sub feels punishing for him it's not going to be better
stoic needle
what i mean is that unless he puts the effort in to really learn the fight timings for sub he'll do better as sin
raven egret
if you ask what's better - sub, but if it really doesnt matter sin is really fun and not a bad pickl
unreal parcel
thanks! might have to just upgrade these sub leggos if i dont get another dagger soon tho 😦
split veldt
boys, i miss sin so bad
i still hate roll the bones so much, and so many of these boss fights in raid and M+ would be awesome for sin
god damn you blizzard
ebon tapir
Outlaw is fun for M+ but honestly I want to play sin again.
fleet whale
first steps made into a talent, replaces exsang
stoic needle
What's stopping y'all from playing sin
young flume
having most of my dmg being passive
lament dove
it doesn't change how you play it
ebon tapir
I'm completely geared for outlaw and it would take a while to get gear for Sin at the same ilvl
not to mention outlaw is still better for M+ which I run alot during the week
spice spire
Outlaw and sin are fairly close in stat prio
Instead of vers > haste > crit it’s haste > vers = crit. Which is oversimplifying stat weights but a general road to follow
gusty hollow
Hey guys, Now that i can see you guys talk bout stats, idd like to know if i should try and get as much haste as possible
ebon tapir
hmmm Thought Haste Crit was king still. Then I suppose my stats are fine
spice spire
hmmm Thought Haste Crit was king still. Then I suppose my stats are fine
They’re about equal at this time
spice spire
Hey guys, Now that i can see you guys talk bout stats, idd like to know if i sho...
While haste is good we’re not actively trying to stack, if you check the bis list, they’ll show you about where you want to be at “end of tier”
Stat weights are constantly changing
stoic needle
not to mention outlaw is still better for M+ which I run alot during the week
Only thing you need to play sin is 2 daggers. Just cuz outlaw is better doesn't mean you still can't do keys as sin
ebon tapir
Outlaw has more control and personally I like that more in M+ but I would 100% rather play Sin during raids and I may give it a shot
I have 2 daggers already so I just need to put together my soul conduits & maybe put down some soul ash lol
ebon tapir
I assume with Zoldyck insignia we craft the legs
balmy condor
Yes
gusty hollow
damn its hard to focus on boss and keep forgettin shiv...
warped heath
I just moved back to sin from Outlaw. Couldn't do Roll the Bones anymore
Just got my first pvp weapon to allow me to do it, so, I am happy with my choice
balmy condor
damn its hard to focus on boss and keep forgettin shiv...
Get a weakaura for it
balmy condor
I just moved back to sin from Outlaw. Couldn't do Roll the Bones anymore
Welcome back :P
gusty hollow
Get a weakaura for it
any good one ? seems you are a god in here
balmy condor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gusty hollow
oh would be insane!
pliant apex
have zoldyck, what’s the next all round Lego I should go for as sin? Thanks
balmy condor
Probably MA for pvp and necrotic wake cheese
pliant apex
I just moved back to sin from Outlaw. Couldn't do Roll the Bones anymore
Welcome the best and correct rogue spec
cunning trout
Has anyone used Essence of Bloodfang? Does it go well with Assassination?
balmy condor
It’s okay I guess
But there’s just always better options
Like why take bloodfang when zoldyck exists
Sustain?
Could take doomblade or dashing, they do it better in single target
cunning trout
Just thinking with all the DoTs sin has and leech talent, this could be nice?
balmy condor
How does that work
If it does less damage
You leech less
Also you don’t take leeching poison a lot of the time, because cheat death is good
stoic needle
Elusiveness stonks
tacit forum
I know NF is the best general covenant. But how do you guys feel about Venthyr and it's Hast soulbind for Assassination?
haste*
balmy condor
stoic needle
It's probably the worst covenant for sin
balmy condor
Oshosi is typing...
stoic needle
You literally cannot get max stacks on flagellation with current gear levels
I've tried, very hard
And don't even get me started on how unreliable thrill seeker and soothing shade are
stoic needle
Yes but venthyr is particularly garbage
Yeah so here's the problem with nadjia
You cannot control when the thrill seeker buff procs
Depending on your raid's dps, it will proc during a mechanic like shriekwing intermission, danse macabre, hungering destroyer succ, or any of the million mechanics in m+
spice spire
Soulbind is bad
stoic needle
Whereas all of the other covenants soulbind abilities activate when you use the ability or use a damaging ability so you're nearly guaranteed to benefit from them
Thrill seeker is uncontrollable and the buff is very short
spice spire
Osh and I definitely didn’t swap covenants at the same time. And night fae doesn’t feel a million times better at all. Trust
stoic needle
Like, I tried to just accept the small sim dps loss
But the abilities are just objectively frustrating to use and poorly designed
There's a difference between 'yeah this ability is underwhelming' and 'my spec literally cannot get the optimal bonus from this ability'
Flagellation is the latter for sin
tacit forum
=/