is there a way to make it sideways if you know what I mean
#assassination
stoic needle
Yeah. Sorry I don't know how to make menus or it would be easier
tawdry pulsar
also it appears CT is permanently up
stoic needle
One sec
stoic needle
Yes that
balmy condor
oh god this is just free form auto-cloning
stoic needle
I thought I fixed that, let me push that update again
balmy condor
oh jeez
balmy condor
then you haven't updated XD
tawdry pulsar
also there's no text for the duration
feral basin
yo @balmy condor ty again for the google docs btw
balmy condor
feral basin
lot of work gone into it
balmy condor
yo <@!167090536602140682> ty again for the google docs btw
np
fallow solar
Which was is that looks sick
balmy condor
its oshosi's
he linked it like 10 minutes ago
if you scroll up
I'm roasting it for clutter atm
tawdry pulsar
it appears the SND duration doesn't show up until you apply rupture or garrote?
it's weird
fallow solar
Yonk
fallow solar
Enlarged pandemic numbers are good tho
tawdry pulsar
how do you get those numbers lol mine are baked into the icon
stoic needle
Idk why that version is auto cloning, I removed that like 3 versions ago
Gimme a second
tawdry pulsar
i think using the grow genuinely fucked it
stoic needle
For the pandemic. It was triggering all the time otherwise
balmy condor
wait really?
stoic needle
Yeah I dunno
That was the only way I could get it to only trigger when the debuff was up
tawdry pulsar
lmk when u have the fixed version for the CT icon to go away
unless u can DM me your fixed one if u can export it
stoic needle
Any triggers made them stay on all the time
balmy condor
well yeh, then unload if out of combat
stoic needle
But what if you vanish and you want to keep track of your dots 
balmy condor
I handle that through conditions
tawdry pulsar
wait can't I fix the CT icon if just set it to only load in cb?
balmy condor
But what if you vanish and you want to keep track of your dots <:monkahmm:585734...
at least this is my solution
but yours works fine too
stoic needle
@tawdry pulsar https://wago.io/Lp33X6aon should be fixed now
delete the one you have and just pull the new one from this page
tawdry pulsar
alright
stoic needle
If you want to change the direction, choose growth direction centered horizontal
tawdry pulsar
is it normal when i close out on WA options it still uses like 80MB addon memory when I hover over the question mark it says "WeakAuraOptions" - 60mb etc
stoic needle
yes XD
tawdry pulsar
and a /reload fixes it
stoic needle
if you change it to horizontal, change text 1 in the display tab to frame's outer bottom or top
tawdry pulsar
https://i.imgur.com/vG37Id7.png
and when I /reload https://i.imgur.com/irPrVqW.png
stoic needle
also ty whisp. visuals is what i focus on even if the implementation can be jank someitmes
wekauras loads every single weakaura into memory when you open the options even if they aren't being loaded normally
balmy condor
wow
stoic needle
it's so annoying
quasi ledge
WeakAuraOptions is basically up after you open the WA interface until you reload/log off, doesn't effect anything
stoic needle
balmy condor
yeah I'm at 600 with TSM on
stoic needle
fucking TSM i swear to god
weak copper
yo assassins
so any of you went all in on the spec yet? (max lvl legendary etc)
and what are you pumping
balmy condor
I turned off all my addons out of curiosity on the fps impact
tawdry pulsar
my PC is sorta ancient
balmy condor
removing 600 mb of addon usage made my fps in raid go from 141, to 138
well, other way around
I had 138 with addons
tawdry pulsar
I get like 29 fps in a raid
balmy condor
141 without
tawdry pulsar
:D
balmy condor
love me some sick 3 whole fps
tawdry pulsar
had the same PC since cata
tawdry pulsar
i've limited mine to 60.. but I never hit over 45
balmy condor
in comparison to a lot of previous raids
tawdry pulsar
so meh
tawdry pulsar
i get 38ish in any major city
balmy condor
like I usually get 95-105ish in nyalotha
but nathria I walked in day 1 with 150ish
was kinda nuts
tawdry pulsar
tbh if I increased my settings I might get more fps
since I run like 3 preset my gpu barely puts out any work
stoic needle
I just uncapped it and I have 80 in oribos right now
tawdry pulsar
balmy condor
yeh I'm standing in night fae hall atm with maxed settings and getting 104
tawdry pulsar
my clock speed is hella low
balmy condor
oh
small screenshot
yeah that's normal
wow is a cpu heavy game
your gpu is hard chillaxing
tawdry pulsar
yeah my cpu is like
almost 9 years old
sucks that wow runs off cpu more than gpu
balmy condor
I don't think wow even pushes my gpu to 10% usage
tawdry pulsar
i've got a measley
i5 3570k
i was using a gtx 760 but that died during legion so i swapped it out for a rx 570
stoic needle
Damn the night fae sanctum is hell on my fps
tawdry pulsar
what pisses me off is my game always crashes whenever i log out to switch to another character
balmy condor
Damn the night fae sanctum is hell on my fps
depends on your angle tbh
if I stare straight at the skybox its like 125 fps, if I stare off into the distance it sinks to like 80
cause more things to load on 10 view distance
stoic needle
I have an AMD radeon rx 5600 xt and a ryzen 5 3600
stoic needle
You can't go wrong as long as it's not venthyr 
tawdry pulsar
i was orig gonna nf because you can get different soulshape animals
but i like the sound of necro shield and the sbs
stoic needle
cause more things to load on 10 view distance
Interesting that things load even if you're just looking at a wall
balmy condor
yeh
pine mauve
do you guys think with recemt changes assa will be viable for pvp again?
balmy condor
it didn't really have much of an effect
quasi ledge
Assass is fine in PvP. You have decent constant pressure but get hard-countered a lot now (Pallys, Hunters and any Kyrian). Sub is always gonna be better though because you're gaining Sub burst and it's control at the same time
pine mauve
well, when you say any kyrian, they can remove bleeds once per 5 min, wouldnt call that massive counter
balmy condor
that's all your burst
pine mauve
if they remove reapply? or am i missing something
balmy condor
you're missing that the meta is you die in 10 seconds
how you gonna reapply from the grave
quasi ledge
It resets all your damage and reapplying all bleeds takes a long time when it's not your opener
Most of the time Paladins and Hunters are also Kyrian, so you get double fucked because they already countered Assass
And now Hunters can remove all your DoTs every 15 seconds
It's not fun
tawdry pulsar
@stoic needle good WA though 👍 i rarely use timers just to reduce screen clutter but these are alright
stoic needle
Tyvm 
balmy condor
definitely should have a nice of set timers to track all the maintenance stuff imo
stoic needle
If I can figure out how to make a menu I'll have a pretty solid pack going
tawdry pulsar
yeah I could never be bothered with those all-in-one WA with the energy bar, combo points etc
just not for me
stoic needle
Sameee
I'm a minimalist by nature I try to keep things simple
Especially in retail where there's a billion fucking particles everywhere and 3 mechanics you have to deal with every fight
Like my first nathria raid I did it with maximum graphics and when it got to lust phase on shriekwing and everyone popped all their cooldowns my computer almost crashed lmao
We had a full 30 player raid
iron orchid
I personnally created my own trackers for alacrity stacks and SnD, then changed my nameplate addon settings to correctly display remaining time on dots. Working fine for me
stoic needle
Yeah, I use nameplate tracking and one set of timers for my selected target, cuz nameplates can get kind of high up in the sky at certain angles on certain bosses
I used to have auto cloning on for every dot with the weakaura's with the unit name... That was a damn mess
I wish there were a way to make some nameplates go to the feet and some stay at the top of a target
Like alternating
That would be perfect
iron orchid
Just got MM altimor down with my guild and gotta admit that Zoldyck feels great
stoic needle
I just wish zoldyck had more visual feedback
Like some kind of glow effect when a mob is in execute range or something
It's kinda hard to tell it's working at times
Or extra blood/poison particles when you dot something in execute
stoic needle
I have nameplates set to change colors when in the execute
But I want flashy particles! I want playing rogue to be cool! Lol
It's really a non-issue I'm just nitpicking
iron orchid
But I want flashy particles! I want playing rogue to be cool! Lol
Yeah same particles as sepsis
So FlaShY
stoic needle
Lmao
I figured out a way to make my weakauras for bleeds get covered in blood particles when they were in pandemic using the model function
But I don't know how to make menus to make it toggle-able so I didn't include it
tawdry pulsar
what's our best trinkets btw?
feral basin
ur WA u linked to they track it on all targets or just single target?
spice spire
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
stoic needle
Just single target
iron orchid
what's our best trinkets btw?
Phial of putrefaction from plaguefall is a nice damage trinket, both for cleave and ST
feral basin
Especially in retail where there's a billion fucking particles everywhere and 3 ...
I know I've trying to clean up my UI - my heads literally fucked after raid, espically if im playing outlaw with the buffs etc
tawdry pulsar
@iron orchid I see from that spreadsheet, the other trinket is from sire denathrius damn lol
iron orchid
yeah, pretty hard to get
stoic needle
Honestly like
You don't get to choose your trinkets
Its really frustrating
You just take what drops for you and sim what's best
For me the plaguefall Phial has been harder to get than dreadfire
I've traded away normal dreadfire and passed on them in the vault several times but never seen that motherfucking Phial the entire expansion
iron orchid
any other decent replacements?
The one from lady inerva is pretty good
tawdry pulsar
Unlucky
iron orchid
chain from sludgefist also viable
tawdry pulsar
I see a lot of people running that inscrutable device trinket
toxic tusk
Normal Castle tonight.
tawdry pulsar
Just looks way too memey for me
iron orchid
You could also get toxin from necrotic wake or Infinitely divisible ooze, which are a bit worse, but still correct i guess
device looks great too
ionic smelt
only good for m+ in raids on 2nd use mostly giving mana too healer
ionic smelt
maybe some of the other guys can give us some enlightenement:)
stoic needle
I think the group you're in matters in the raid
balmy condor
device is great
storm onyx
But I want flashy particles! I want playing rogue to be cool! Lol
I want old classic poison application proc effects back fgs. No idea at all why they removed it
fleet whale
device rarely actually gives mana or heals a random person in raid
it's really not simbait
pliant apex
are more ppl playing sin now?
native turtle
1 is more than 0 so yes technically
fleet whale
Peen still plays sin
stoic needle
feral basin
OK - so if i land on 4CP but i have no 1P generators available - Am i using finishing move on 4CP or wasting a CP just to get a 5CP finisher?
PLaying outlaw landing on 5 with D/S talent isnt to bad
balmy condor
you're finishing on 4
storm onyx
Generate if you are < 4, finisher on 4 and 5. You dont try to get 1 last cp, couse you can burn 3 cps if that mutilate crits. Thats a lot of energy wasted
Double crit. I mean
I see some rogues get that last cp by Fok on pvp though if they absolutely need a 5cp finisher at that moment
fleet whale
if you have garrote up and it needs to be refreshed though, you can use that to go from 4 to 5
balmy condor
decanter is just an all around solid trinket
pliant apex
for some reason, im simming for 30 dps more with voracity
lame.
though the wowhead page lists it way below decanter, a 150 dps below lol
instead 150 plus, decant giving me -29
balmy condor
voracity is also a very good trinket
the difference is probably item level and gear related
pliant apex
oh i see
native turtle
Did you guys hear about the leak?? They are nerfing every spec that is performing better than assassination! It's our time to shine!
fleet whale
I mean, assassination has basically went two straight expansions of being the meta raiding spec for rogue
pliant apex
Did you guys hear about the leak?? They are nerfing every spec that is performin...
you srs??
native turtle
Why can't we go back to that
native turtle
Trade chat!
pliant apex
😦
fleet whale
lol he's making stuff up
pliant apex
oh man
fleet whale
also who knows maybe Sin will be good again next patch
pliant apex
i HATE sub and outlaw
storm onyx
Ahahah good one
pliant apex
the skill diff between sin and other two is mind boggling
i mean why would anyone play those over sin
native turtle
Yea I can see sin being better single target with more secondaries
pliant apex
so easy and straight forward, and fun, sin is
ONE mistake on sub and you fucked on parses in raid
native turtle
Just roll 5 on every Roll the Bones 
pliant apex
i just play sin , end of story
blue logs, not a lot of work, good enough for me
gm happy, im happy
native turtle
Parse 99 percentile or riot
stoic needle
lol my gear isn't good enough overall for that sadly
toxic tusk
Just finished normal shriekwing and pulled 3.1k. I'm happy with that!
crimson palm
Hey @balmy condor whats best covenant new rogue player
fleet whale
The maw covenant
frail fossil
wild spirit
native turtle
All of the covs are close enough for rogues pick the one you like for the content you like to do
strange python
BIS cov is the one that makes you want to quit the least
fuck knows the mechanics will make you want to, so pick your fun where you can have it
frail fossil
frail fossil
good job
fallow otter
4.4k on huntsman! Best I've done yet.
What difficulty?
fallow otter
Nice
toxic tusk
I was doing like 2.3k the other runs.
I think even just simple stuff like not wasting combo points/not using ambush every chance I get helped.
fallow solar
Do you guys think sim for sheet music trinket is accurate? It sims better than my lower ilvl hateful chain but I find it screws up a lot during some bosses
Never had a good trinket drop
strange python
it's shit
sims well, performs shit
maybe it would be sick if you have speed stat on every piece of gear and move around like a blue hedgehog
but otherwise it's shit
misty holly
I'm sad the tank just out damaged me in a +10. This never used to happen in bfa!
stoic needle
4.9k on huntsman. so close to 5k
stoic needle
Do you guys think sim for sheet music trinket is accurate? It sims better than m...
if you dont get the full benefit from sheet music it's worse than the sim. its just a bad trinket
devout temple
is assasssin good now
native turtle
"good" is a strong word
we don't use that word here
we prefer words like "acceptable" and "tolerable"
stoic needle
Viable
misty holly
It's at least in the top 25.
balmy condor
we prefer words like "acceptable" and "tolerable"
“Scaling”
Wait what
If we just keep getting 5-8% every month
By April we’ll be SLAMMING
The true sin scaling
fallow otter
What io you got
misty holly
that is like #1 in the world assassination rogue
robust pine
But did you compleye your keys in sin?
fallow otter
Haha no... Im just comparing the levels
My rogue is my alt now, it only does a 14 a week, torg and when I'm bored some renown quests
calm dome
@fallow otter whats your main now ?
fallow otter
Ww
Rogue is like 215 ilvl I think
Warming the bench waiting for a reason to be played
strange python
Do you guys think sim for sheet music trinket is accurate? It sims better than m...
AFAIK it is very hard to use even when playing ranged dps. Useless on melee.
vivid hearth
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
open ingot
tawdry pawn
is there any streamer playing assa?
vestal wren
seliathan does in his torghast runs
tawdry pawn
well thats kinda meh xd
vestal wren
assassination isn't very powerfull outside of torghast, so its very hard to justify playing it
strange python
just found out you can cast garrotte out of stealth.
best rogue in the world right here.
ama.
vestal wren
the amount of players you have that play assassination is too low to have a lot of streamers.
And from this already super low number you probably would also want to have somone who plays at a higher level of play
vestal wren
its possible that some players will play assassinaiton if the content is nerfed/farm status
mainly to get high allstar rankings
vestal wren
the buff was enough to not make assassination the last spot on the wcl ranking
but it was not enough to make it a good pick
there are some niche use cases
but the pin sums this up quite well
fiery quarry
when i do a patchwerk sim it shows me that zoldyck does more dmg than doomblade. did something change or does the sim have problems with deciding when execute phase begins or something like that?
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
vestal wren
doomblade/zoldy is rly close the "outstanding" one on st would be dashing
tawdry pawn
with 2 leggos maybe assa will be good
ornate dawn
Why yes, I am top 100 ||sin|| rogue
how do you get to that view?
robust pine
how do you get to that view?
Open your character page on raider.io and check mythic+ progression
broken flame
Gonna try out a Sin build tonight. Simming 5.3k right now 😄
Still behind on Sub, but I've always like Sin more
So I'm just gonna give it a try
median mango
I swapped to nightfae and am at 13 renown now where all guides tell you to swap to dreamweaver for the double potency. However I sim almost a good bit higher with niya, am I missing something here or should I just trust my sims?
quasi ledge
I've always simmed higher with Niya and only 1 potency. Assass conduits are too shit to be worth dropping Niya for a 2nd one it seems
heady island
Same, still running Niya.
spice spire
Niya sims the best due to her soulbind trait. It’s just simply better than the second potency conduit for sin
At 25 she has a small jump and at 30, a huge one
median mango
Alright, thanks guys. 🙂
So the guides, e.g. wowhead and icy-veins are just wrong here?
Can someone boink the authors please? 😄
manic quartz
zoldyck or dashing for assa?
stoic needle
Zoldyck
silk wyvern
hows assassination going on
spice spire
hows assassination going on
Still the worst rogue spec but much better. You won’t be fighting any decent boomy or marksman for top damage though
silk wyvern
how can i counter tank dh and plates with sub
honest silo
My assass set is simming 89 dps below my sub set 
silk wyvern
im getting annoyed of paladins and vengence dh is there any way to counter them
stoic needle
That's their thing
silk wyvern
what am i supposed to do to them
silk wyvern
ohh ok
paper stratus
I noticed mark legendary is putting up the best nums on Warcraft logs would thst make it the go to
regal torrent
Is anyone playing assassination rogue like, at a competitive level
or are you all benched
stoic needle
I noticed mark legendary is putting up the best nums on Warcraft logs would thst...
No, zoldyck is better
spice spire
I noticed mark legendary is putting up the best nums on Warcraft logs would thst...
Which logs show this?
stoic needle
Just because it's in a top log doesn't mean it's automatically the best
What it actually means is that no one at the high level has gotten the chance to craft zoldyck yet
paper stratus
Well that’s kind of what I figured just wanted to hear another OP
Overall statistics at every percentile in castle Nathria. But the fact that most high level players haven’t crafted zoldyck it makes sense
regal torrent
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
tropic ocean
Still the worst rogue spec but much better. You won’t be fighting any decent boo...
you wont on any spec 😛
spice spire
I’ve seen some competitive outlaws, but they’re just better than their group most of the time
slim siren
what are you guys running for kyrian? pel for double potacy or kleia
toxic tusk
Pelagos for me
spice spire
Pelagos iirc
toxic tusk
Unrelated, but does the companion app let me view my characters and stats?
slim siren
just for shits and giggles has anyone tried using count the odds conduit on blindside assassin?
cause it gives you the buff
lament hedge
At basically the same ilevel (207) my Assassin damage was 500dps lower than Outlaw last night - for Heroic Lady. Assassin is fun, but the damage is still pretty low.
Of course experience and playing well matters as I'm used to playing Outlaw much more this expansion, but I played assassin for the majority of BFA so its not new.
regal torrent
CtO gives you a buff in assassin spec?? lmao
regal torrent
thats about 400 dps less than outlaw
ofc its a bit of a weapon diff cause ive got a 197 1h instead of a 207 1h
spice spire
That seems low still
slim siren
yea your gonna do alot worse as assassin thats why its 4th from last for raid plus has the lowest(tied with surv) dps at the 100% point
has a higher average then bm and arms but has a lower peak
prisma yoke
yeah ... i just equipped 2x 190 BoE daggers and am 202 ilvl and i get about 4600 as well
prisma yoke
regal torrent
me small brain
slim siren
im assassin main with gear for it and im only at 4800
at 206
so yea a bit low
but conduits xD
slim siren
lethal and toxic
prisma yoke
it's in the pins as well
spice spire
Yeah
regal torrent
ight i see
spice spire
I’m still at renown 25, gotta do the calling today for catchup but at 1 potency, I’m at 4900ish with a 190 OH. But I’m also 208 ilvl, so it should be closeish
regal torrent
whats ur haste/vers if u dont mind me asking
slim siren
crit 19 haste 15 mast 26 vers 15
regal torrent
kk
slim siren
my stats are really inflated rn cause of raid neck
regal torrent
13 crit/21 haste/23 mast/16 vers
slim siren
but cant get a better one
yea alot of haste is good
for me it doesnt matter cause raidbots basicly says there 0.01 point apparent
appart
regal torrent
im an outlaw player been wanting to try assassin
i saw a debate over MA/Zold earlier
im gonna build 1 of them today, but which is best
slim siren
zold
regal torrent
kk
slim siren
or you can go dashing if you just want to play sin i nraids
regal torrent
zold is better overall tho yea?
slim siren
yea alot better on aoe
slim siren
dashing is just slightly better for single target it seems
slim siren
yea thats what i go with
i like the blindside exe playstyle
tho i just want to go back to mast stack sin rogue
regal torrent
feels like i have so little keybinds now
slim siren
thats funny i get more when i go to sin
toxic tusk
Is dashing just a free master assassin talent?
slim siren
no thats master assassin
slim siren
dashing is more crit chance for bleeds when you have envenom plus more energy
toxic tusk
Oooh nice!
Is it worth having a max legendary of both and just switch them up during raids?
toxic tusk
I do only play sin, so that’s good to know.
lament hedge
Zold isn't far enough Dashing for that to be reasonable, but if you have the time and extra Ash, go for it
It will up your dps some if you aren't changing your secondaries to account for Zol.
regal torrent
is there a stat diff when running zol?
spice spire
whats ur haste/vers if u dont mind me asking
I don’t have percentages off the top of my head but stat numbers are crit/haste/mastery/vers : 212/794/290/340
regal torrent
or is it just haste/vers for all
slim siren
haste crit is alot more important
lament hedge
Equip Zol legendary and run a stat weight versus equiping Dashing, you'll get some significantly different results.
regal torrent
i would but i dont own either cause im thinking of swapping to assassin
spice spire
I’ve too much haste in general. But also haste > vers = crit is the general consensus but it definitely changes as it goes
slim siren
hm weird for my char vers sucks badly
lament hedge
Do you have Zold equipped?
slim siren
yea
lament hedge
My stat weights are Haste>Mastery>Vers>Crit
slim siren
for me crit and hase are at 1.3 and mastery and vers are at .92
spice spire
Stat weights change based on your current stats. So while they may prefer x now, if you collect a metric shit ton of that stat? It’s priority will fall
lament hedge
Right, but because Zold focus' so high on the thing that is raised by Mastery, it changed the priority for me from before I had that legendary.
slim siren
weird i only have 200 mast and its still so low
spice spire
Is my current weights because I have so much haste
slim siren
no not exactly
regal torrent
stat weights right
lament hedge
No no, Zold just causes your poison and bleeds to be a higher percentage of your overall damage.
regal torrent
cant SIm the stat weight if i dont have the item tho
so should i craft it a haste/vers
or haste/crit
slim siren
haste crit imo
regal torrent
general consensus then?
lament hedge
I think I went Haste/Vers
slim siren
what are your stat percents again?
spice spire
general consensus then?
Either is fine
spice spire
Zoldyck’s doesn’t change your priority
slim siren
yea you have alot of vers already same as me which is why vers is basicly my worst stat
so i wouldnt stack any more vers
spice spire
Get it dog
lament hedge
Yeah I was stacking vers and haste because I was playing outlaw. So Mastery went up in priority when I equipped Zold and Assassination.
regal torrent
yuppp
slim siren
fair
regal torrent
im an outlaw player swapping
slim siren
i only have one mastery item and its still my worst stat xD
spice spire
Both are valid options. Vers is a fine stat but 16% is pretty high, so you probably need the crit.
regal torrent
it was begging me to find crit items cause i was 17% haste/21% vers
lament hedge
This game is fun.
regal torrent
I mean, it is
but my feral druid is ruined now cause of stats
so im trying to do this right
218 and only doing like 5.6k cause of bad stats
when other ferals doing 6k+
zzzz
lament hedge
I can't imagine playing Feral and Rogue. Its almost the same thing. Get yourself a big 2H class and enjoy the big numbers.
lament hedge
I leveled a Frost DK as 2H even thought its objectively worse just because I couldn't do a dual wield class again.
slim siren
i hate the way gear is in general right now doesnt feel like upgrades matter tbh
plus i want my posion/bleed focused builds back
regal torrent
i tried to do a Necrolord Cat for fun last week
cause my stats are big fucekd like i said
lament hedge
Yeah, honestly thank god for Zold, because otherwise any item with Mastery on it is absolute garbage, at least it makes the secondary a little useful.
regal torrent
absolute dogshit now i gotta wait to be night fae again
lament hedge
I've gotten the necklace off Huntsman 3 times now between heroic and normal...
regal torrent
well
slim siren
worse then huntsman neck
regal torrent
go run m+ lol
slim siren
i try but no one will let a 210 rogue in 10s for some odd reason
regal torrent
i left my rogue on the back burner and only did a m9 on it
and got a 216 sin stained neck
142 haste pog
slim siren
hell i cant even get into m 7s
slim siren
nope i have my outlaw equiped to 210
slim siren
prob
regal torrent
people dont like low io players, but makes 0 sense
slim siren
not gonan do low keys to get a io score seems fucking dumb
regal torrent
cause they need to gain io by doing keys
slim siren
yea im only at 300 io apprently
regal torrent
yeahhhh
fading wigeon
Yeah that's low
regal torrent
thats going to limit you alot
just spam m7s in ones you havent done to get your io up
slim siren
i stil love my keys are just like plus 7s with double chesting them
fading wigeon
If you don't ha e a +7 complete don't expect to get I to a 7
regal torrent
and then do 10s cause people let m7 average ios in 10
slim siren
cause people cant dodge a damn boss
regal torrent
timing keys is big priority
slim siren
the second boss of spires
fading wigeon
Usually have to time each key and build up your io
regal torrent
yuppp
as a 218 feral with a 1145 io, i cant geti nto 15s generally, and it isnt cause im feral
i can geti nto 14s tho?
lmao
slim siren
is it just me or does mplus feel like it isnt rewarding at all cause the ilvl just isnt up to par
damn
lol
regal torrent
im basically a Demon hunter with all this leech
fading wigeon
is it just me or does mplus feel like it isnt rewarding at all cause the ilvl ju...
Don't run m+ for gear
PvP is where it's at if you are gearing for raids
toxic tusk
Oof. I didn’t realize my mastery was so high.
fading wigeon
that kinda system
Yeah it's no perfect but necessary. M+ pushing is only for people with a lot of time to play.
open swift
Oof. I didn’t realize my mastery was so high.
lol
slim siren
yea they fucked the gearing system makes me really not enjoy the game
open swift
rip
regal torrent
yeah it takes alot of time to gear now or luck
slim siren
put res back on pvp gear and its solved
regal torrent
i got 210 relatively fast
slim siren
nah its not even that i hate its that gear doesnt feel like upgrades
regal torrent
but i also have nothing to do
slim siren
normal raid is
3 ilvls above honor gear
pvp gear even at low ratings match heroic gear
feels really bad
plus m+ gear is low ilvl
i like scarcity of gear if it was done to make every peice of gear feel impactful
stoic needle
We need m+ tokens, and the weird plateau of ilvl in m+ gear from 10+ keys to 14s needs to begone
It's just dumb
slim siren
we also need items with special effects
open swift
its also hard to gear without having a guild
slim siren
one of the best items i can remember last xpac was geti'ikku it felt amazing if you got it alot more impactful then generic sword number 4
stoic needle
More poxstorm!
slim siren
exactly
open swift
one of the best items i can remember last xpac was geti'ikku it felt amazing if ...
was fun af for arms warriors
slim siren
weapons and items with effects should be sprinkled more throughout the game
stoic needle
I will never say no to more interesting weapons tbh
Cuz gear right now is fucking boring
slim siren
right
stoic needle
Which one
open swift
Skulkers Wing
stoic needle
Yeah I have skulkers
slim siren
yet in classic i could remember basicly all my gear by name
stoic needle
It's... Aight
open swift
it sounds fun af
stoic needle
If it was more reliable I would enjoy it a lot more
slim siren
yea its glitchy
stoic needle
It's just kinda buggy atm
slim siren
i like it but i somtimes have to run away from an enemy to get it to work
so like why use it
stoic needle
I think it's a mistake to not let trinkets be affected by our mastery or our abilities
slim siren
eh depends
stoic needle
Why the heck can't we get flayedwing toxin and Phial and indivisible ooze and make a poison build
That benefits from our mastery and shiv
slim siren
dmg trinkets with like outlaw true bareing would be way to op
open swift
i liked the logic trinkets from bfa
stoic needle
Well yeah they would have to be careful with some of the effects
I think cdr in general is a no
slim siren
fair
slim siren
their never gonna do it because of the one fury warrior trinket that lasted 3 patches xD
open swift
We should get a boost to it
agreed
open swift
their never gonna do it because of the one fury warrior trinket that lasted 3 pa...
which
stoic needle
Similarly with monks and their physical damage boost and DH with their magic damage boost
open swift
rogues should get one from poisons tbh
stoic needle
I think stuff like that is only good for the game. There's nothing good about boring gear that's bis for everyone
slim siren
yea they def need to make gearing better
id love to see a patch with a 2 boss raid but everything else is dedicated to gearing
open swift
Ion said they werent happy with the gearing from m+ and raids
stoic needle
They'd probably have to reduce the benefit from mastery to trinkets to keep it balanced but I think it's worth the effort to test and balance
open swift
id love to see a patch with a 2 boss raid but everything else is dedicated to ge...
i remember the two boss raid in legion
stoic needle
Yeah but all I think they will change is the rate of aquisition. I don't think they're going to do anything to address how the gear itself is boring
open swift
my problem is the 35 anima from raid bosses
stoic needle
The covenant armor with the set bonuses are actually cool but they're just worse than regular gear
Omg don't even get me started on that shit 
open swift
If I dont get loot thats fine, but 35 anima is less then a WQ lol
slim siren
id love to see a better reforge system
stoic needle
It feels very weird that the best thing you get from raiding is 2-3 more chances at loot in your vault
Cuz the bosses don't drop shit
slim siren
where you get tokens from activitys to upgrade and unlock different types of stuff
stoic needle
It would be cool to be able to spend anima to reforge stats on gear
slim siren
idk bout you guys i loved azerite perks but the way they were and the imbalence was shit
stoic needle
Like if you have a haste vers piece, you can spend anima to make it 100 haste 50 vers from 75 haste 75 vers
slim siren
like the idea of having different customizble procs and effects would be fun
regal torrent
i like how the mistcaller ocarina is changable
they should do that with stuff like you said
anima to make stuff diff stats
slim siren
yea that would be a good thing
stoic needle
They could include the missives too
stoic needle
500 anima, haste missive
slim siren
there is a ton they could do that no one would hate
but they wont do it for some reason
stoic needle
I wouldn't mind a legendary enchant system or something too
Like imagine if you could add the poxstorm effect to any weapon
slim siren
yea exactly
like the weapon enchant system is amazing the enchants feel great we need more of those types of procs
stoic needle
Ya I think that's the issue there's just too few enchants
You have sinful and celestial and lightless and that's it
Give me like a half dozen more lol
slim siren
the chest enchants feel great to tbh
stoic needle
And they are just generic
slim siren
but the rest are just stats
stoic needle
% stats, % damage, aoe dmg proc
Lightless is actually pretty cool even if it's a bit awkward
slim siren
just mor diversity
stoic needle
But sinful and celestial are pretty boring
slim siren
like the attack speed one last xpac was nice
i like having sinful tbh cestial yea fair
but id like more procs then just flat dmg
stoic needle
I think what it comes down to is that all of these things would need to be balanced carefully and they don't have the resources to do that
They couldn't even make the covenants balanced and that was one of the main features of the expansion
regal torrent
assassin actually seems fun
doing my torghast layer 8s real fast so i can make zold
slim siren
yea their balence team is on drugs
stoic needle
Well blizzard had a lot of layoffs before SL
I think bobby kotick is hoovering up all the $$$ they could spend on hiring more designers
They should go the valve route and let players design things on a modded server and just pick from the best ones and implement them in the game
slim siren
honestly wouldnt be a bad idea to have design comps
simple kettle
should we stop stacking haste after 30%?
spice spire
There’s not enough diminishing returns to care. But at some point your enchants and stones won’t want to be haste
I’m at 27 rn iirc and it wants crit everything
stoic needle
Not worth
Doomblade is only good for single target
Maybe as a 2nd legendary
But zoldyck is just too versatile
stoic needle
Doomblade is probably my favorite legendary from an effect standpoint, I wish it were better
regal torrent
might try me some pvp as assasin
does it matter which weapon is in the mainhand
or does it have to be the higher ilvl
xd
balmy condor
ILvL always
regal torrent
got a normal weapon from Sire when i was apart of necrolords
now im kyrian
cant xmog it
driving me fucking nuts
stoic needle
there's a janky way to do it
@regal torrent https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/cant-transmog-my-weapon-after-changing-covenants/229278/18
stoic needle
yeah that seems to still not work sadly
stoic needle
hero
stoic needle
amazing
stoic needle
what ilvl does a 17 give?
iron orchid
210 😢
stoic needle
iron orchid
slim siren
when your 17s give 3 items less then heroic raid
iron orchid
15+ giving less than HM raiding feels weird
spice spire
210 is max mythics give 🙂
slim siren
thats why mythic plus feels uselss
iron orchid
Yup
slim siren
it feels like to do it you need the gear far past what it drops
spice spire
The chest feels real good tho
iron orchid
Just farm your weekly chest and wait for reset ...
stoic needle
that's so lame
spice spire
^
stoic needle
but i actually enjoy doing mythics...
stoic needle
honestly it feels like I am being punished for helping my guildies with keys because it pollutes the 2nd slot
unless i do like 5 or more +10s
spice spire
Isn’t the second slot just the lowest of your top 6?
stoic needle
yeah so unless i do 6 10s, i get worse gear
iron orchid
but for now I am some kind of free agent inside my guild because I don't play the right spec and I just fill empty slots
spice spire
It isn’t that bad, I’m half way through this week.
stoic needle
well I'm trying not to play this dang game so much 😛
iron orchid
I have managed to get all 3 slots up to 14+ for the last two weeks, and I am already 7/10 this week
Just hope I get that sweet 226 dagger from mists 
lament dove
yeah now that I reached 14s and can get 226 from weekly, this is the point where all my decisions in life brought me... now I will get a weapon, I feel it...
otherwise I will never get a weapon upgrade lol
stoic needle
what's the addon that lets you see which keys you've completed already this week?
iron orchid
Going from PF14 to 17 straight up gave 47 RIO score
stoic needle
damn
iron orchid
which brings me to https://raider.io/characters/eu/hyjal/Deïræ
spice spire
Nice!
frozen jasper
idk if im gonna get KSM this season i'd just like to get all 10s
I mean if you don‘t have a premade group and try to do some keys over pugs you just can‘t get a group so you have to get kinda lucky to do all 10s if you‘re by yourself
stoic needle
yeah that's my situation
frozen jasper
My guys just aren‘t online that much so I need to get as much keys in as possible on the one evening they are online lol
frozen jasper
yeah that's my situation
The struggle is real espacially as a non meta class
stoic needle
just got into a +11 DoS doe
frozen jasper
just got into a +11 DoS doe <:peepoguns:585733947732787211>
Show em what an assa rogue can do xd
stoic needle
i fucking love fortified weeks
the mobs live long for all of the dots
you can actually be semi competitive with the big classes in pugs when they can't just obliterate everything in 1 burst combo
what finesse conduit do you all like for m+? prepared for all or rushed setup?
balmy condor
I like rushed for kidney reduc but probably not worth tbh
I use vial much more than kidney
stoic needle
yeah once we get renown 30 being able to have recuperator and nimble fingers together will be nice
i think nimble fingers might be better than recup for M+ since i seem to use elusiveness feint quite a bit
if you can only have one i mean
iron orchid
what finesse conduit do you all like for m+? prepared for all or rushed setup?
I use Quick decisions tho 
slim siren
what if we dont use finesse conduits at all 👀
balmy condor
what if we dont use finesse conduits at all 👀
stoic needle
yeahhhh
stoic needle
the boomkin who did 2.2k overall got the inscrutable quantum device -_-
i got anime
like wtf is this
balmy condor
That looks like a bad pug group
native turtle
Seems like the kind of group that would accept an Assassination rogue to M+ ya know
native turtle
This is awkward
stoic needle
no that's not my group
real bay
boomer last is feelsweirdman
stoic needle
you get the crown in details when you're top dps
real bay
never noticed that
real bay
😆
real bay
rare boy
devout temple
rare for a reason tho
i love sin i want it to be above average so bad, mabye in 9.1
or even just average would be fine
stoic needle
we are average
stoic needle
no one has crafted high level sin legendaries yet. WCL statistics won't be reliable at least for a few more weeks
stoic needle
mmh
stoic needle
yeah
devout temple
i see
stoic needle
haven't been under a tank in damage since the buff, nor more than 800dps behind the top dps
i'd call that average
devout temple
even fire mage?
stoic needle
yeah, talking about overall dps
they have high peaks but low valleys, sin is consistent
topaz saffron
Love DPS that give you sass before an M+ and then they play mediocre af
stoic needle
also depends on the week, its better on fortified week than on tyrranical
limber lion
Fire mages currently with kindling+shifting power should be able to combust every single trash pack on 15+ keys. So they don't really have that much downtime as you'd think. They can easily get 2 combusts off per boss fight as well.
Also fire mages dps is better and more consistent than assa's if the tank pulls more than 2 mobs, which he should
With fire patch they just hardcast flamestrike and do 4k dps without any cds.
plain thistle
lets not forget about Spiteful, where its actually a good idea to just CC and run to the next pack, hurting even more since we cant re stealth 
ornate dawn
no one has crafted high level sin legendaries yet. WCL statistics won't be relia...
Ive had my maxed zoldyck since the first week you could ^
pliant apex
not sure if denial will help, the diff between me and the sub rogue in my guild is around 1k, gear the same ilvl
ornate dawn
Who says im not top logging 😉
stoic needle
We are very close to sub atm
I didn't say you weren't but if you are, youre setting the top end right now. The 'pack' needs to have it and good gear before the wcl ranking will rise
Cuz it's an average score
balmy condor
its not denial
I sim 400 lower than my gear in sub
and have beaten some of my recorded scores on sub, as sin
on stuff like hungering, altimor, etc
pliant apex
hmm
guess the rogue in my guild is 206, im 201 not same ilvl at all
so thats def not a fair comparision
he would be 400-500 dps above if i were his ilvl
balmy condor
like I am in no way a poggers rogue
but like
that seems fine to me
there's some fight time stuff on some fights
pliant apex
bottom is sin?
pliant apex
We are very close to sub atm
you think we close to sub?
balmy condor
I do as well
pliant apex
yea i think i need to just learn mechanics, gear up and keep trying
stoic needle
And very few people are playing sub to its peak potential
pliant apex
yea, i mean i have rotation down perfectly, so thats something
ornate dawn
This was the HC kill dps on wednesday
pliant apex
do you think oshosi itll help if i switch covs from venth to nf?
balmy condor
will you beat sub players that are really good sub players? no.
ornate dawn
other rogue is outlaw
balmy condor
will you beat the sub/law players that just play sub/law because meta chasing or whatever?
yes
mossy crown
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
stoic needle
do you think oshosi itll help if i switch covs from venth to nf?
I went up 300 dps from switching from venthyr to night fae
Venthyr is just like.... Horrendously bad
At best, it's inconsistent, and lower dps then the rest. At worst, it's like having no covenant at all
halcyon grail
Venthyr shines later on when it's 3% flat DMG is better than any potency conduit the others get early.
stoic needle
It's still trash because flag is bad and thrill seeker is a rng clown fiesta
As is soothing shade
It doesn't matter how much haste or mastery they add if you are forced off the boss or away from the effect when it procs
And since it's rng you can't control it
Not even to mention it's nearly impossible to get full flag stacks as sin
pliant apex
wow man
halcyon grail
Data is what it is mate. But I understand not liking it for reasons. Just like Skulkers.
And again. In current gear.
pliant apex
i would agree, ive almost exclusively played venth too
stoic needle
I cannot even count how many times thrill seeker procced before a mechanic in m+ or raids
pliant apex
and it seems SHIT
stoic needle
Theotar's soothing shade at least procs from an ability, and even that is bad because you're forced to move
pliant apex
yea, and if i hate kyrian aesthetic, i can just go nf right
much better than venth, fun too
stoic needle
Venthyr is only good on straight up patchwerk fights without mechanics which do not exist in the game currently
stoic needle
Flag costs 2 gcds and 40 energy
And doesn't even give you CP
Does bad damage
Meanwhile sepsis hits for like 10k+ overall and gives you a free garotte silence
Or an ambush if you're a different spec
balmy condor
Venthyr shines later on when it's 3% flat DMG is better than any potency conduit...
source pls
stoic needle
I'd like to see the covenants compared in a sim in hectic add cleave and light movement/heavy movement
halcyon grail
In fully mythic gear it's like 200 DPS.
balmy condor
im not talking hectic and shit
halcyon grail
However early on its much larger a gap. Like when most people saw an instant 200-300 dps increase going kryian/nF
stoic needle
I'd just like a way to show in a sim what I have experienced in practice: venthyr being shit when mechanics are in the equation
halcyon grail
On sim
pliant apex
i think more than that, at the ground level, the dps gap is big, in that flag is also harder to get right
pliant apex
I'd just like a way to show in a sim what I have experienced in practice: venthy...
yea, venth just dont work in a practical raid environment, sims assume patchwerk i think
at reknown 25, how long might it take to hit 25 on nf
balmy condor
However early on its much larger a gap. Like when most people saw an instant 200...
dunno bout that, considering the end-soulbind abilities are better for kyrian/fae
stoic needle
I am renown 23 after switching at the beginning of this week
pliant apex
oh wow
halcyon grail
Literally everything grants renown when you switch
balmy condor
venthyr just kinda bad regardless of when 
stoic needle
I'm mad the coolest looking covenant is the worst
halcyon grail
You mean necrolords right? Jk
pliant apex
if im 26, and raids tomorrow, makes sense to switch after raid right lol
halcyon grail
stoic needle
You should switch before raid
Because you can get renown from killing raid bosses
You should switch and do as much of the covenant campaign as you can
I got 2 from raid last night
tawny iris
guys EP or MP for m+?
balmy condor
EP
native turtle
All in favor of making mutilate only usable behind your target? I think it would save the spec
topaz saffron
🤔
stoic needle
All the sets look sick except for leather
They should fire whoever designed that god awful mog
regal torrent
so it seems im doing 3.5k dps up until execute phase at 208 ilvl
does that seem normal
balmy condor
yeh seems reasonable