assassination

[stoic needle]

Draven's passive is... Wait for it...

3% agility

That goes away if you get hit

The problem with nadjia is that if you don't get the thrill seeker during an actual encounter or you get it towards the end of one, she's worse than almost all of the other soulbinds

It's like not having a soulbind at all

Dauntless duelist isn't enough to make up for that

Thrill seeker should stack up and then activate the next time you use flag

Not randomly

At least theotar's activates when you use an ability

[limber swallow]

yea, what's 6% vers compared to agility? Sometimes I miss AEP as a concept, lol

[mint peak]

We have that now except better

[modest dove]

Seeing all this big pp mut talk timing 15s and shit has me big hype. I fucking hate sub

[stoic needle]

Ikr?

When I saw that it was possible it was over for me

I just gotta git gud

[modest dove]

Same dude

I made MA first as a general for outlaw until i got some daggers over the weekend, saw buffs to mut, knew it was meant to be. Made zoldyck yesterday morning. Spent a few hours in bgs and some keys. Feelsgreatman

[stoic needle]

I wish I hadn't crafted celerity

But I thought I had to be outlaw to get into any keys whatsoever

[modest dove]

Cant craft celebrity if you never got it

I wont lie, i def farmed spires for a hot minute too and just ended up doing MA. Pretty glad i didnt end up getting it

[toxic tusk]

Celerity?

It was one of the first ones I picked up and I didn’t realize how important it was

[modest dove]

Celery

[stoic needle]

i crafted MA week 1, and it served me well. i should've just upgraded it instead of celerity

went zoldyck for fun after the 5% buff, and then the 8% came just in time for me to get lvl 4

[spice spire]

I did MA week 1 as well, then went to zoldy’s week 3 and fully upgraded two weeks ago

[modest dove]

Does MA snapshot stealth garrote? Or just while it's active?

[spice spire]

Now saving for another rank 4 (probably dashing or just full upgrade on MA)

MA does not snapshot, just while it’s active iirc

[modest dove]

Word thought so

[spice spire]

Only snapshot we had was exsanguinate

[modest dove]

Was toying around with exsang earlier in a few bgs and with rupture, garrote and kidney bleed it was fun as fuck watching some people melt

Also feelsbad to get your bleeds up, hit exsang and then pop phial and /lol you

[stoic needle]

yeah i'm thinking about going for dashing next

[tight ravine]

assass is kinda fun in bgs

like

[stoic needle]

if i'm gonna be sin full time i gotta pump all the time

[tight ravine]

real fun

[stoic needle]

and if we get to wear 2 legendaries, zoldyck + dashing

[mortal tartan]

i was pulling like 2nd to 3rd dps in my raid last night thinking my spec is finally back but after checking logs more than half of my raid had like 40 or lower parse

[tight ravine]

lol

[modest dove]

I have no doubt we'll eventually get to wear 2

[shrewd iron]

which legendary do u guys use in torghast?

[spice spire]

I still use Zoldyck’s

[stoic needle]

i use zoldycks, MA is probably good too

[mortal tartan]

wtf do i do for aoe if i dont have CT

[spice spire]

Pray

If it’s over 3 targets, spam fan and rupture targets

Under or at 3, mut rupture for cleave

[mortal tartan]

what about like mass aoe? i heard somebody say envenom + fan of knives for the extra poison proc chance

[limber lion]

You wanna get enough garrotes/ruptures in so you get enough energy to spam FoK/Envenom over and over

[safe nacelle]

It's weird not having a burst AoE to spend like in Sub. Is that the play for AoE after you spread rupture/garrotes? Fan of Knives and Envenom?

I've also been using Tempest instead of poison bomb. Wasn't sure if that was a mistake.

[limber lion]

Yes, that's it. If you're specced into Crimson Tempest, you would use that instead of Envenom

On AoE CT pulls ahead, but it's not a button worth to press on ST.

[misty holly]

Does anyone know if Celerity can proc when you aren't in outlaw spec? I'm guessing no, but if it could would it be any good? random adrenaline rush procs sounds fun for any spec.

[safe nacelle]

You wouldn't spam tempest though would you? I think max CP use gives you 12 seconds or something like that.

[limber lion]

On like 8 targets you would spam it. It still has an initial damage component to it, it's not just a dot

[safe nacelle]

I'd usually use it once after Fanning 5 CP's and then Envenom.

Oh gotcha

Ty wasn't aware

[modest dove]

I was curious on what was the best way to handle big packs, ty. Was in the right direction with CT just not executed properly.

[limber lion]

Yeah, I think on 5+ targets you'll just want to have 5 bleeds up (be it 4 garrotes and 1 rupture, 2 garrotes and 3 ruptures or whatever) and just FoK/CT, refreshing bleeds when they get into pandemic

[stoic needle]

hmm interesting I didn't know about the 5 bleeds part

i'd been trying to get up as many bleeds as possible

[limber lion]

With 5 bleeds you get enough energy regen for FoK spam.

[stoic needle]

it only works in torghast with the jack of all trades power sadly

hmm now i'm gonna have to make a 5 bleeds weakaura hehe

[limber lion]

You don't need 10 bleeds as most of your damage will come from FoK/CT and you just need the energy from the bleeds to keep using them

You don't want to be energy starved in AoE but you also don't want to generate too much energy where you would be wasting most of it

[stoic needle]

i usually would just try to keep garotte and rupture up on every target in aoe, and ct every time it reaches pandemic

but i'll try the 5 targets and then fit in more envenoms

[limber lion]

I would just garrote 3 targets and rupture 2 and then FoK/CT. When garrotes are in pandemic, vanish and do it all over again.

Assa AoE is a bit tough to get down because it requires that the mobs stay alive for the duration of the dots as well. It's just something that gets better with practice.

[stoic needle]

i've definitely noticed an improvement already after sorting out the way my dots show up on nameplates and practicing a bit

having the nameplate dot glow during pandemic is super helpful

[limber lion]

Sniping low hp mobs with ruptures can also be a viable thing to do when a pack is dying down

Yep, sure is

[modest dove]

Ye because you get an energy bump when they die depending on bleed/rupture duration leftover correct?

[stoic needle]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Rupture sniping is very very dangerous

I don’t suggest it

[stoic needle]

overdoing it is bad, but prioritizing which rupture you refresh based on what's going to die soon within a pack can have some benefits

[limber lion]

Yep.

[raw sand]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[stoic needle]

you shouldnt just toss out 1cp ruptures or whatever just to get the bonus

[limber lion]

If you're playing assa on keys this week and you have someone else to take care of explosives, you can use them to rupture snipe

[stoic needle]

😮

[limber lion]

It's great on bosses as well

[stoic needle]

i never thought about rupturing the explosives

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t suggest that either

[limber lion]

It's really good on bossfights

Why not?

[balmy condor]

Cause rupture sniping 90% of the time is not a gain

[stoic needle]

in case anyone was wondering, the nal'tari pet in this week's torghast event is awesome. i have 114% haste right now lol

[limber lion]

If you're at 10 energy and 5 combo points and an explosive spawns next to you on a boss fight, I would 10/10 times rupture it

[balmy condor]

You have to already be low energy, with a low cp rupture

Yeah a 5cp rupture on an explosive is definitively not good

That’s a loss

[limber lion]

You get 150+ energy back instantly which you can use to Muti twice and envenom once

Instead of sitting energy starved and waiting for your energy to come back up

You get resources for 3 abilites instantly instead of having to wait several seconds.

[balmy condor]

Idk how else to explain this to you

Most of the time

[safe nacelle]

How do you folks incorporate Vanish in your rotations?

[balmy condor]

It is not worth it

[stoic needle]

in M+ there are lots of times when i'm low energy with low cp with a dying mob in front of me

you have to be smart about it sure, but saying 90% of the time it's not worth it seems like a bit of an overstatement

[balmy condor]

With MA to get the crit, with subt to reapply a new empowered garrote

[balmy condor]

I say 90% conservatively

Especially on explosives

That shit bait as hell

You have to get a rupture on it, and apply deadly poison

Before it dies

[stoic needle]

do you have to deadly poison it?

the way the passive is worded it seems to me like the rupture thing is separate

[balmy condor]

Yes

It’s energy against a poisoned target

If you’re rupturing explosives, and not getting the poison off

gg just wasted 5cp

[modest dove]

Whats energy on FoK?

[native turtle]

if you don't Vendetta explosive orbs you are a coward

[stoic needle]

i just tested it, you don't need poison applied

[balmy condor]

That’s new

[modest dove]

And got big dick energy replenish?

[stoic needle]

i put a 5cp rupture on a dying enemy in torghast with my deadly poison specifically removed and went to 120 energy

[balmy condor]

What’s the passive connected to then

Is it not venomous wounds

[stoic needle]

it is

[native turtle]

crippling or numbing maybe?

[stoic needle]

i think the energy from bleeds ticking on poisoned targets and the rupture energy refresh are separate parts of the passive

that's the way the tooltip is worded and how it seems to be in practice

[modest dove]

Yeah that's passive energy regen

[stoic needle]

or thats the way i interpreted it at least

[modest dove]

You get nice little ticks

When proc

Actually was just talking about that with the aoe

[stoic needle]

Also i have celerity equipped and mfd so i have near 100% snd uptime

and im not getting any ar procs

and I DO have jack this time

lol

[balmy condor]

Idk man

Rupture sniping is bait as fuck

I don’t recommend it

There’s times where it’s useful

Like uh

Jumpy boss in plaguefall

You can rupture the little blob

And that thing blows up instantly

[urban shadow]

the one you stomp?

[balmy condor]

That’s helpful sometimes

Nah the purple one

[modest dove]

Oh snap thats actually good idea

[balmy condor]

Idk if you can hit the stomp one

But would be same concept

[modest dove]

Def case by case basis then you're saying

[balmy condor]

The cases are very very niche

[modest dove]

Yeah word

[balmy condor]

This conversation comes up every patch when people start playing sin

Like with sin EB crit stacking in 8.3 and doing better damage than outlaw

People were doing the same thing

It got simmed, showed that it wasn’t really that great

And then the cycle continues

[native turtle]

I prefer to go off baseless personal anecdotes rather than mathematically proven numbers

[urban shadow]

feelycrafting

[modest dove]

[balmy condor]

I agree though, rupture sniping feels sick

You can probably just snipe away and it wouldn’t make a huge difference

[modest dove]

Anyone miss the sprint glyph that allowed running on water?

[balmy condor]

So if that helps your mental, go for it

[balmy condor]

That still exists, sorta

Think it’s a pvp talent maybe?

[urban shadow]

sub has that baseline

[balmy condor]

Oh or that

[modest dove]

zzzzz

[balmy condor]

I remember running on water with sprint while skinning

[modest dove]

Lol

I havent played mut since cata pvp, still had a cataclysmic glad trinket on my bar when i respec'd over the weekend lol. Should've kept it as a memento even though couldnt link it anymore

[stoic needle]

i just see sniping as a way to escape being starved if the conditions line up

rare, but it happens

[modest dove]

Oshi was it you who wanted to make dashing?

[cold rampart]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

only after i have lvl 4 zoldyck

so next week or 2

[modest dove]

Dope

[stoic needle]

I don't want to be play sub, so I would like to still maximize my ST dps when I can

[safe nacelle]

Level 4 is i235 right?

[stoic needle]

Indeed

[safe nacelle]

I'm averaging around 2.5k damage per dungeon on Assassination right now with level 4 Zoldyck. Still learning rotations and what not though.

Wasn't sure if that was a decent average or not.

[stoic needle]

My average is about 3k and I'm very average at sin lol

Practice will definitely improve that

For me personally at first I was envenoming too much and letting my dots fall off

Also your average goes up with prideful quite a bit

I get more like 3.5-3.8 with prideful if I have a good group

[safe nacelle]

Nice, haven't acquired that yet.

[stoic needle]

Averages vary quite a bit so it's hard to use them as a good performance metric

[safe nacelle]

Word, with the dungeon variety and what not too I suppose.

[stoic needle]

Yup. I just try to focus on whether we time the key or not and whether I had any contribution towards it

[safe nacelle]

Yea

[stoic needle]

The big dps classes carry the dps for the most part, I don't sweat it as long as I'm above the tank and not more than 1k overall below them

It ends up being like 500 dps difference between myself and some boomkins and locks and whatnot but I haven't played with any super pumpers

[safe nacelle]

True

What M+ drops i200 gear?

[iron orchid]

Your overall dps in a dungeon also depends on whether you do 10+ dungeons or not, because pride helps your dps

[iron orchid]

+7

[safe nacelle]

Ty

[spice spire]

I’m rocking 3.3 currently without prideful? Since I run with a lock, boomy, and occasionally a ret or WW, I’m not worried about damage, just CC

I’ll just fan and CT for bigger pulls and make sure shit’s kicked

[lament dove]

by average you guys mean overall dps?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[spice spire]

Yeah, packs and shit. If it’s a dungeon like ToP or mists, it’s a little lower, but not too bad

[lament dove]

I have almost 4K overall and I don't want to go into 10+ because I find it too little lol...

[stoic needle]

You should

It just goes up

10+ are actually easier than 8s and 9s...

[balmy condor]

I don't think so tbh

prideful still hurts

[stoic needle]

With a good tank that has a solid prideful route they seem so

[balmy condor]

gotta pop cds on it

[stoic needle]

We can cloak the latter half and feint

Doesn't hurt that bad

[boreal vale]

Idk 2.5k seems extremly low

[balmy condor]

idk, I'm the guy popping cds on prideful

so =

feels bad

[stoic needle]

I mean he said he's still learning

[boreal vale]

Yea

[steel ridge]

assa seems to be gud now?

[balmy condor]

its ok

[steel ridge]

my co rogue who has been running assa since release closed the gap alot

[balmy condor]

13% buff helps

5% and then another 8%

[lament dove]

I do about the same overall dps with all 3 specs now

[steel ridge]

ik ik

but man FURY

what the hell blizzard

[balmy condor]

what about fury

[steel ridge]

our arms switched for todays raid

and murdered

[stoic needle]

are they good now or something?

[versed mica]

Meaning he did a lot of damage or?

[balmy condor]

they're good on aoe

[steel ridge]

from what i can tell they are very competitive

[balmy condor]

but they're kinda competitive yeah

[stoic needle]

is that from the buff they just got?

interesting

[steel ridge]

probably, its just a case that many warriors just didnt pick fury

just like assa

now with number tuning, some of the better players may try it and perform

[tight sun]

does sin feel like a dot class?

[steel ridge]

badly tuned specs tend to have scewed logs since not many mechanically good players push the average

[balmy condor]

has it not?

[tight sun]

Iunno, haven't played rogue this xpac

I've been boomkin

but I got my ksm and aotc so i wanna play an alt

sin seems neat

[balmy condor]

feels about as dot as usual

3 maintenance buffs

complaint is that the dots aren't the things doing the damage

which I guess could be a turn off

[tight sun]

aw that feels bad

ya, i tried feral but the dots did like 30% of my damage

[steel ridge]

then what is? melee?

[balmy condor]

melee/envenom

[tight sun]

prob envenom lol

[steel ridge]

then its even more of a snoozefest?

[tight sun]

I want a real dot class but I also wanna play some melee

[steel ridge]

i really liked 90% haste sin in bfa xD

[balmy condor]

I mean you still need the dots

[stoic needle]

feral does more damage with their dots than sin i believe

but sin definitely feels like a dot spec

[balmy condor]

but its definitely not the dot damage itself

[tight sun]

hmm oki

I try it

[lament dove]

my garrote dmg just beat melee in a ToP 8 !

[steel ridge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[tight sun]

Is IV guide accurate?

for trinks n what not

[balmy condor]

icyveins is accurate yes

[tight sun]

oop no raid trinks on there

assume you guys want dreadfire like everyone else?

[spice marsh]

I usually go to bloodmallet for trinkets

[balmy condor]

yeh

[willow cobalt]

hi there!

returning player here!

tried to re-roll and main a priest and that did not go so well. Now back to my old fav rogue.

sooo many changes though!

[stoic needle]

Welcome back brother

[frozen jasper]

Is it confirmed by blizz that we will be able to wear 2 leggys in a later state of the addon?

[balmy condor]

idk if it's confirmed, but it's very likely

[rigid wyvern]

no its all speculation

but it does make senes

cause idk what you do with soul ash after like 2 rank 4 leggos

[frozen jasper]

Oh so kinda like it was in Legion ?

[balmy condor]

that's what we assume

[frozen jasper]

Hord it like a dragon lol

Sounds nice, zoldyck + DS

[rough breach]

legendary base items have unique design so, last tier, you wear full set of legendaries.

[frozen jasper]

Well im Not Sure about that buddy

Would be Kinda overkill

[balmy condor]

a full set of legendaries is exactly what blizzard intended

yes yes

[spice spire]

Excellent design blizzard

[near pilot]

Overkill?? You mean like corruption??

[rough breach]

you say that now

[balmy condor]

gotta play a weird puzzle game to make the slots fit with all the legendaries

since you can only craft 2 slots

[near pilot]

Maybe last tier will be tuned for groups will full leggo

[frozen jasper]

That Puzzle is the real endgame content

Planned all along

[balmy condor]

and then the last raid comes out

[rigid wyvern]

I feel like there might be a balanced power with some nerfed / reworked torghast powers at some point

[rough breach]

But when your holding all those oranges you’ll remember mocking nostradamus

[balmy condor]

and everyone is wearing full legendaries

so all the gear dropping from that raid

is completely useless

ah yes

[near pilot]

No raid loot

[balmy condor]

the best design

[near pilot]

Bosses will give you augment runes and ribs lol

[rough breach]

You just turn them into soul Ass

[frozen jasper]

Raid just drops anima

[near pilot]

Do bosses drop loot now?? Haven’t seen any

[frozen jasper]

Nothing would change

[balmy condor]

this is some 90000000000000 IQ shit

not gonna lie

[rough breach]

And weapon tokens I guess

[balmy condor]

you know how when computers overflow on a number cause it's too big

it goes back to the negatives

that's what my brain feels right now

its just so smart

[rough breach]

That’s me the positively negative space genius

[balmy condor]

that my brain cells are dying out

[rough breach]

Well. You’ll have more legendaries than brain cells real soon dw

[balmy condor]

I fucking hope I won't

good meme though

solid joke

[frozen jasper]

I still dont know if hes serious tho

[balmy condor]

I honestly don't know either

[rough breach]

That’s what makes it funny

[balmy condor]

could be really elaborate bait

or an actual dumbass

we'll never know

[rough breach]

Both

[balmy condor]

that's my assumption usually

[frozen jasper]

Coming back to my point with the 2 leggys, you guys think that would shift the Meta like hard or just a little ?

[balmy condor]

for sin specifically probably not much

for other classes might be some really wild interactions

[obsidian willow]

Why do we garrote-mutilate-snd instead of garrote-ambush-snd again?

[balmy condor]

because ambush sucks

and mutilate gives more cp

[obsidian willow]

Ahhh

[rough breach]

You wouldn’t know until it happens, like survival getting wildfire cluster and trapping boots sounds like dogshit but frost with two legs sounds legit

[obsidian willow]

So we only presh ambush if it’s a blindside proc?

[balmy condor]

yes

[frozen jasper]

Yeah kinda what i was thinking but i guess ill take the Second Bonus

[obsidian willow]

How about the free ambush from sepsis? Is it worth pressing?

[balmy condor]

not free, so you dont use it

[obsidian willow]

Ohhh

Aryt2

[frozen jasper]

Only ambush with BS talent proc

[balmy condor]

yuh

[obsidian willow]

Why does ambush suck? Isnt it a strong skill?

[stoic needle]

doomblade + zoldyck seems like fun if/when we have 2 leggos

[frozen jasper]

Mut has the potential to give More CP

And with bs the Chance to give free ambush

Which is better than just ambush i guess

[balmy condor]

there's 3 things to keep in mind for mut vs ambush

1. cp jank
2. mutilate double poisoning
3. mutilate with blindside having a chance to give you an ambush

[frozen jasper]

Yeah doomblade sounds really fun to me but i dont know in what niche it fits- zoldyck best Overall and DS ist best for st so i think These will be the 2

Oh Yea forgot about the poison aspect

[coral imp]

do i save shiv for envenom or use on cooldown on bosses?

[balmy condor]

on cd

[low girder]

i forget, did you find a haste/energy regen breakpoint that made duskwalker's good

trying to remember far enough back, i think even 1m vendetta made it worse than zoldyck lol

[stoic needle]

i'm curious to see if having multiple legendaries will change those rankings by much

[balmy condor]

the amount of haste needed to get duskwalkers to 1 min is unachievable

[stoic needle]

and idk, even if dashing still is bis depending on the discrepancy i might go doomblade anyway just because i think it's cooler

[low girder]

unlucky

[rigid wyvern]

yall are missing out on the bloodfang synergy with boomblade /s

[frozen jasper]

I like your thinking mate, i guess i will Test it out and see what feels better (if it Ever becomes Reality). But yeah doomblade sounds pretty neat

[stone epoch]

I accidentally didn’t swap off my outlaw conduits and my blindsides were giving me RtB buffs

[stoic needle]

I min/max when it suits me. But I'm here playing sin instead of sub or OL, so if the difference isn't huge I go with what's more fun. That's why I'm venthyr, for the aesthetic at least

[balmy condor]

yeah, that happens

[stone epoch]

Yee, hardly viable but was pretty fun when I got loads of CP during sludgefist

[deft sparrow]

how's sin doing in m+'s boys?

[balmy condor]

fine I guess

its not outlaw

[deft sparrow]

better than sub in m+?

[balmy condor]

debatable

its better cleave, worse single target, bout the same aoe depending on pack size

loses out on easy dance cheap shots and stuff

needs stealths

so could do more damage, but probably won't be the pick

[deft sparrow]

aight, will try it out on some mid keys

[marble hemlock]

assa will scale much better on really big pulls

so theres that

while the individual hits of fok/ct are targetcapped, you still apply the poisons/dots and can have those active on much more than 8 targets, which is pretty significant

[fleet whale]

You also get triple garrote silence and Iron Wire DR. Utility that sub lacks

[stoic needle]

Idk cheap shots in dance are kinda better than garotte/subt/IW

[marble hemlock]

not really, no

stun DR is already taken up a lot

[fleet whale]

That’s debatable

Those silences can get mobs to the group

[marble hemlock]

and you sacrifice a decent chunk of dps for it

[stoic needle]

I'm not saying you run around mass cheap shotting the mob

But I feel the lack of a 2nd interrupt as sin in keys

CS can fill that role

[fleet whale]

Cheap shot isn’t really an interrupt

I mean it is

But like seli said... you take up a gcd and stun dr to use it

[willow cobalt]

gotta love muscle memory

feels just like yesterday i was raiding BWD

lol

[fleet whale]

And you’re underestimating how useful that triple silence is in M+

[stoic needle]

Probably

[tender folio]

So how is Assa so far guys ? You diggin' it ?

[willow cobalt]

well im a returning player from 9 years ago ish

and it feels the same.

but i could be wrong. lol

i was surprised they took out combat and replaced it with outlaw

[stoic needle]

Rip combat

[tender folio]

How does it feel in myth+ after the buff ?

[fleet whale]

It feels fine

[oblique kiln]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

Feels very playable

[obsidian willow]

bigger dps than the tank but outlaw is still better (of course)

tbh, it feels kinda bad cuz on 3 target cleave or so, you just finished putting up a garrote and rupture on the third target and you already have to refresh the first one

and if you dont have a decent amount of haste, the spec still feels really heavy to play in my opinion

and in raid (did mythic shriekwing with my guild last night), even with execution phase with zoldycks and blindside, yes i was doing more DPS than the tank but I was no where near top DPS unlike when Im on my outlaw rogue.

[strange python]

Should we be opening with Ambush or Mutilate? Every guide says Ambush, quick sim shows mutilate :x

@balmy condor i summon thee

[rigid wyvern]

amush is a scam never pay for ambush

[balmy condor]

every guide says ambush?

please link so I can beat them over the head with a stick

[strange python]

https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/

MA - first ability is Ambush

[balmy condor]

@warm parcel

[strange python]

so i have been deceived?!?!?!

i will not stand for this

[balmy condor]

well to be fair

we were only just figuring out stuff around that

until a few days ago

so he just needs to update the opener stuff

but the rule as of now is do not ambush unless it's a blindside proc

[strange python]

oh ok gotcha

ty sir

[balmy condor]

np

[strange python]

got a 220 daggie from great vault

feeling dangerous, figured i'd make the switch

[balmy condor]

;)

[strange python]

ooo it's beautiful

[balmy condor]

mastery tho

https://tenor.com/view/gag-gif-4452317

but yeh

aside from that

very pretty

[strange python]

Worked out perfect. Can use in both Outlaw and Sin lol

[balmy condor]

I have a stream! Should be linked to my discord account, and you'll see my name go purple on the right when I'm live (actually gonna stream raid in a little)
I also have a youtube but we don't talk about it and I don't post and it's full of cringe legion stuff so it might as well not exist

if you're expecting world first gameplay though I'll have to disappoint

I'm fairly casual on the grand scale of things

[strange python]

dont listen to him

i ran a key with him in bfa and he destroyed me

my confidence was shattered in the awe of whispyr

[balmy condor]

I'm a book worm more than anything

[stoic needle]

please god give me a weapon

[limber swallow]

always get some pvp daggers

[daring pecan]

I feel ya on that one, Whisp

[stone epoch]

I can’t get any haste for the life of me

Game wants to keep dropping crit and mastery

[gray hazel]

Silly question, does Mastery affect Enevom damage?

[balmy condor]

yes

[green pier]

can somebody tell me whether there is any info i can read on the effect haste has on bleeds and poisons? I understand that haste improves the speed at which bleeds tick without changing the duration of the ability, but that means it's not "really" useful until you get enough haste to gain an extra tick, right?

[gray hazel]

Thanks Whis!

[balmy condor]

1 tick per 2 seconds divided by haste

[green pier]

so right now i have 20% haste, which means my rupture ticks every 1.6 seconds right? so i get 12.5 (12) ticks on a 4 point rupture, and 15 on a 5 point rupture?

[balmy condor]

yes

[green pier]

right, so a bit of scrub maths says you'd need 23.1% haste to gain the extra tick on a 4 point rupture

[balmy condor]

kinda

tick math is actually a little weird

because dots always start and end on tick

[green pier]

right, yeah, that makes sense though.

so in the case where i have 20% haste for a 4 point (20 second) rupture, "technically" they tick every 1.6 meaning i get 12 and a half, but that half second gap is filled by spreading the ticks back out to "fill" the rupture right? so it starts and ends on a tick as you say

[balmy condor]

yeh sorta

[green pier]

so they'd be every 1.66 seconds. yeah ok, makes sense i think

thanks bud

[wise gull]

i want a 226 weapon

but im a pvp baddie and i hate m+

i dug my own grave

[main forge]

just switched back to sin and boy does it feel slow compared to outlaw and sub, and just feels weak. Only one shadowstep? movement even feels slow. Combo points even come in slow and end up getting spent on rupture and SnD. something has to change about it. idk what but it needs a bump for something.

[mortal tartan]

outlaw and sub have some pretty extreme highs and lows when it comes to dps, where sin is fairly steady which makes the playstyle feel slow

only at 16% haste energy feels fine to me

[stoic needle]

yeah I dont mind it being 'slow' for being more consistent

[obsidian willow]

Will buying conduit upgrades from venari give me more conduit energy?

[balmy condor]

no

[strange python]

dang sin is fun

just got #1 parse on n hungering destroyer lmao

BIG PUMPER OVER HERE

Overall the only time the spec didn't feel good to play was during denathrius. Didn't know what to do about cabalists, and during p3 i felt like my damage was just nowhere

[stoic needle]

Sin is huge in denathrius p3

Multidot adds, target the closest one, and just switch back to sire when they die.

I got a 97 on n denathrius tonight lol

[strange python]

Yeah I got a 98 but it just didn't feel good

that's p2 you're talking about tho

[stoic needle]

Shit you're right

2 and 3 kinda flow together for me

My damage was definitely going up in p3 though it was noticeable

[limber lion]

On what dificulty hasubaka? Don't see you on the leaderboards on mythic and I still have #1 on heroic :'')

[fallow otter]

#11

[mental igloo]

How tough is it to pick up?

Can I go in cold Turkey?

To normal, I mean

[limber lion]

huh?

[strange python]

I said it was normal @limber lion lol. My guild wont let me do sin on mythic

My toon is named dubamine, too lazy to change it on discord

[limber lion]

Never said it was on normal lol but alright

[fallow otter]

I see you number 11

[strange python]

You said mythic and heroic? Of course you dont see me, i only played sin on normal

[limber lion]

I would get a good weak aura, do the rotation a few times on a training dummy and get a feel for maintaining the dots before going in.

[limber lion]

Yeah but you didn't mention earlier that it was normal, that's why I was asking. :p I can't play assa on mythic either :''(

[strange python]

“#1 parse on n hungering destroyer”

[limber lion]

Huh? I still have #1 on Heroic Hungering Devourer, what you mean?

[strange python]

Lol

[limber lion]

oh

lmao

[strange python]

Ya dingus

[limber lion]

I guess I'm illiterate

[fallow otter]

Aren't they talking about sire?

I need to pay more attention haha

[strange python]

But yeah overall sin was fun to play. It actually still felt somewhat fast paced. Not as fast as 8.3 but not like dying of boredom

[limber lion]

He said he got #1 parse in normal Hungering Destroyer previously, I was referencing that.

[strange python]

Only thing i miss is the range from outlaw. Rip acrobatic strikes

[limber lion]

Yeah it's actually pretty decent! 8.3 Assa is by far the best assa's been, kinda miss it.

Legion 7.3 Assa was great as well with 2 legendaries and Kingslayer

[fallow otter]

Well i killed like 5 mythic bosses without noticing I had trash 184 pvp trinkets on, so take that

Lol

[limber lion]

I guess we'll have to wait for 9.3 lmao

[strange python]

Oh for sure. I dont miss CT lol but also dont miss boss being dragged out of my bomb

[limber lion]

Tell me about it

I was parsing like 90's on Eonar most of the time and then one day I just had b2b Poison Bomb procs and got rank 1

Did everything similarly

Same ship, same rotation, same mobs

Just got lucky with PB

I'm glad we don't have that kind of RNG anymore tbh

I don't know how I feel about SnD on Assa though tbh

[strange python]

I like it, i just don’t like refreshing it

Bring back icc snd refresh

[fallow otter]

Lol

Purple parse still

[limber lion]

Someone's been doing a fair bit of PvP :'')

[strange python]

I feel like you almost have to pvp a little bit

[limber lion]

Yeah, I've been capping conquest every week myself as well.

[fallow otter]

And for the record, global locked expedient CT ST was a peak of sin it was awesome, now it is like total trash in comparison

[limber lion]

Literally not getting any gear from raid, so gotta get it from somewhere else

Yep, 8.3 assa was the best.

[fallow otter]

My weapon luck has always sucked, being able to get 220x2 very easy from pvp and to fill out neck piece and stuff has made my gear pretty decent considering I started late coz it was my 3rd SL toon

[limber lion]

I did like Kingslayer gameplay though.

Yeah, I got 2x220 weapon's from PvP as well. Only last Wednesday I got a 226 weapon upgrade from the Great Vault

And this is my main that we're talking about here

[fallow otter]

Yeh that mini game was fun

[limber lion]

It was pretty rng as well though.

But whenever you got to 30+ stacks, you felt like a god

[fallow otter]

Have the WeakAura to show you how much dmg it did

Try get it as big as possible

[limber lion]

Gonna be interesting if we get to use a second legendary at some point.

[fallow otter]

I really hope we don't but pretty sure we will

Balancing it will be even more of a nightmare

[limber lion]

I'm sure it'll be fine

[mortal tartan]

could be my gear but my sub sims only 130 higher than my sin

[limber lion]

There's a bug with Warcraftlogs regarding the Shiv ability at the moment. If you go to a log, select a player and choose "Timelines - Casts", you can see the rotation that the person used in the fight. However, currently Shiv does not appear at all on the rotation.

If you're a new Assa Rogue trying to learn the rotation, do note that Shiv is used in the rotation, even if it doesn't appear on Warcraftlogs. Refer to !guide to see how to use it.

[balmy condor]

yeah that shit has been an issue since prepatch

I mention it every now and then in the WCL discord

and it's basically just ignored :P

[limber lion]

One of the WCL dev's is my guild master, I'll shoot him a message and see if he can get it fixed. Fingers crossed.

I guess assa is too dead of a spec for the devs to care lel

[balmy condor]

well its a thing for the other specs as well

if you look up m+ logs and stuff

[limber lion]

Well yeah true

Odd

[raven egret]

yea other specs just don't use it for dps

unless tiny toxic blade lege

[fallow otter]

It's because it's damage amp is a waste of time so they cbf

[stoic needle]

alright, so M+ without CT isn't quite that bad.

i was actually outdpsing this boomkin and MM on several pulls in mists +9 earlier

[spice spire]

W

[fallow otter]

Someone is walking forward right now

[balmy condor]

Nah he’s just a winner

He’s pumping

[low girder]

maybe he's casting https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=65609/w

[fallow otter]

Maybe

[balmy condor]

@spice spire pls confirm

[dense cedar]

Anyone here play assassination rogue?

[balmy condor]

No

[dense cedar]

Good

[stoic needle]

Never

[near pilot]

Bs I caught whis playing it in his stream

[stoic needle]

I play ass rogue

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-ass-arse-butt-booty-gif-12958298

[low girder]

buttrogue

[stoic needle]

Bootyrogue

Gluteus gladiator

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

🤦‍♂️

[main forge]

I am getting put on the mythic bench, which I get, we normally clear normal, get AOTC and see what we can down in mythic. apparently my sub ilvl parses are too low.... should have stayed sin, could have been in new 'awlins with purple and gold parses.

Trying to get back into sin, probably going to start doing it on the alt raid and farm bosses to get some practice in... how's it feel?

[rugged dragon]

Feels really good

very smooth

Compared to outlaw for example

[main forge]

I loved combat back in the day, but out of 14 years of playing rogue... this is the only time I have gone sub.... and I didn't think I'd prefer it to outlaw but I do. But I really want to go back to maining sin

[ornate raptor]

i went Sin for mythic for the first time again. went very smooth to be fair. you have advantages when people doing tacts with the bleeds and poisons on

[velvet ridge]

I love sin, but it doesn't feel smooth to me, and I'm getting 99s and a 100 in heroic. Tbh kinda clunky Idk, I think outlaw is smooth

[main forge]

Did LFR and a few dungeons as sin before raid. It definitely felt better that before the buffs(i haven't played since the buffs honestly). But I do only have 12% haste or so... and felt like I was "waiting a lot" and then spending time refreshing rupture and SnD. IDK I saw on one fight I had 20% melee damage I think. That just feels wrong to me.

[rustic thunder]

Yeah i tried it too and feel the same

The spec feels kinda clunky and off despite doing ok damage now

I hope blizz has some plans on slight redesigns for assa

[placid dawn]

every melee spec has 20% melee damage or more

my outlaw sim has melee as second highest damage barely above outlaw

and sin has always been the slower more methodical spec

8.3 was an outlies cause of crazy corruption haste

[vestal wren]

melee damage impact is always high at the start of the xpac

if they do a level squish that is

[south drum]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[spice spire]

Should have replied. It’s a huge W to outdps the boomies. More than likely osh is just built different though

That’s the best response I have atm, check back later

[cinder crater]

any guide to assasination pvp?

[dry chasm]

any good addon for i see easy my buffs from roll the bones?

[quasi ledge]

Probably ask in the Outlaw channel, or just look on wago.io

[sour gorge]

Why all guide says says Dashing Scoundrel as legendary but all top logs gets Zoldyack?

[pastel apex]

Is good assa now?

[sour gorge]

assa is "ok" but sub and outlaw still better

[south drum]

Because Dashing is slightly better on ST but Zoldyack is better overall so people are crafting the one they can use everywhere

[sour gorge]

I see. Thanks man

[fiery shell]

Blindside is fun. Feels like it helps smooth those droughts of energy/points

[south drum]

In time I suspect you will see people crafting Dashing as they have the soul ash to spare for pure ST legendary

[sour gorge]

sure

too many legendary to craft :p

already have 1 rank 4, 3 rank 1

[south drum]

yeah same got rank 4 finalty, rank 1 zoldryk and doing rank 3 celerity next I think

and still need to do a MA aswell

[sour gorge]

yeah, MA is must have for PvP and is "ok" for all the rest

[daring pecan]

MA is pretty good for M+

not necessarily the best but in some cases it is

[south drum]

That really depends on your group 🙂

[daring pecan]

yeh

[warm parcel]

@balmy condor I swear I just checked the apl before for this like just before your shenanigans with openers

[ornate lake]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[visual igloo]

hows ass looking in raids?

[simple kettle]

If I already put garrote and rupture in the target what is the preference? Envenoms window or slice and dice?

[daring pecan]

SnD then envenom

[simple kettle]

thank u for the fast answer, but should I use all the combo points or just do a SnD with 2 or 3 combo points

[daring pecan]

as many CP as possible, pretty sure it's described in the guides how to do it exactly

[simple kettle]

Okey, thank u a lot @daring pecan

[daring pecan]

no problem

should note that with "as many as possible" I mean, "as many as possible without overcapping CP"

[high wagon]

Do you guys tend to run more of a ST build during tyrannical weeks for mythic+ or still stick to aoe?

[iron orchid]

Depends on your team comp and key level

Last tyran week i ran a more ST build because I played with a fire mage and MM hunter, which have a high AoE burst to get through most packs.

This week, i have not played with the same people so I kept EP and CT for maximum AoE Sustained damage

[stoic needle]

I ran PB instead of CT in a few keys last night and the loss wasn't as bad as I thought and my ST dps was definitely better

Sin aoe without CT is a little scuffed but not as bad as you'd think once you get the hang of it. You just have to work harder to multidot

[iron orchid]

In high keys (12/14+) I recommend keeping CT anyways, feels better overall

Packs have a lot of hp even in tyran

I have logs from last night

[stoic needle]

I'd love to see

[iron orchid]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z2hjfVm98KcbqTJF

Failed that Mists 15 tho

Kinda sad

[stoic needle]

220 Phial does as much damage as mutilate

Interesting that you run vigor over MFD, is that because of tyrannical?

Ya mists seems hard this week

[iron orchid]

Just personnal preference, I have been too lazy to learn how to use it best

[stoic needle]

Fair enough haha

I like it so I don't have to waste combat time getting SnD up and for getting cheeky 5cp finishers that I wouldn't normally with a reset every now and again. But I'm not sure whether it's optimal to use in keys all the time

[iron orchid]

Probably ends up being optimal in most situations I think. I also mostly run subterfuge in raid only cos i think it is harder to mess up, and I would probably get a more consistent damage output VS if I'd played MA.

To me, that's the same kind of choice, You have to invest a lot of effort into gaining the "optimal dps" but you have short windows or details of your rotations that you cannot mess up in order to be a reliable source of damage.
I feel comfortable playing with those talents so I can also focus on cc, dodge, disenrage, etc. I guess that playing MfD increases the skill cap by a lot, and you could be rewarded for it, but I prefer that sweet energy regen to have more choices available.

[fossil slate]

I've never bothered much with MFD either tbh

[pliant apex]

ive some confusion reg 'cleave' in raid situations, when do i apply rupture to add during encounters? after all bleeds/poisons are applied to primary target? also on opener, do i use cleave after vanish and envenoms are used?

as sin rogue, our cleave is basically rupture on secondary's right?

[storm perch]

i would say garrote + rupture + deadly poison (if y are able to apply it)

if you pressed vanish with subt, then ofc apply garrote on many targets as you can (max 3)

[mint peak]

subterfuge is easier to mess up imo. MA you literally just vanish and hit abilities

[storm perch]

if you pressed vendetta - then tunnel your main target

[frozen jasper]

On council do you apply rupture to all three bosses or just ST the prio target, i dunno my dmg on council feels like shit and i have no idea what i am doing wrong

[storm perch]

if nothing changed every bleeding on another target gives us energy

so it's good idea to keep up bleeds on another target if it's possible

[frozen jasper]

Aight thats what i did, guess its just too much downtime from Running around with the dancing partner all the time

[iron orchid]

I try to keep two bleeds up on two targets on Council

So 4 bleeds total

for energy regen

then focus on prio target

Seems to be working fine on HM

[plain thistle]

you can actually sim if thats a good idea, sim 2-3 targets then open the html report and find the main target damage. after that you compare that with a pure single target fight

[frozen jasper]

Thanks a Lot !

[plain thistle]

to compare main boss damage, if its higher to maintain dots on a second target you do, otherwise just ST

[storm perch]

like keeping two dots on another target is not a big problem but it will give you more dps to your main target

[iron orchid]

I feel like keeping dots on three targets would slow your prio damge down too much

[storm perch]

but i really hate council fight

[iron orchid]

On this fight what is important is timing cds to push phases through at the right timer

[storm perch]

everything that you do in this raid, can be done by range dps way better)

[iron orchid]

the rest is mainly a healing job

[storm perch]

like i've seen in my raid party people (boomkin, hunters. affliction etc) are attacking flying mobs on Stone Legion Generals

not sure that it gives something except +10% dps overall)

[vivid hearth]

some nice padding for the meters

i guess

[plain thistle]

simming a random dude (2 targets patchwerk), 5117 main target dps, he sims for 5k in pure single target

[iron orchid]

Faster orb drops to clear the intermission. Draven is kinda slow killing them mosquitoes

[frozen jasper]

Thats with dots on Second Target ?

[pliant apex]

i have the same question

reading some of the replies, it seems council is a difficult fight to parse well as rogue

its a lot of work to apply bleeds to multiple targets, id rather just do my thing on main prio targetr

thats what i hate about rogue, mechanics and throughput becomes a massive chore, and i say this as sin rogue, if its sub then 'hail mary'

one reason i couldnt do subtlety, mechanics and rotation were gun make me sick irl

[plain thistle]

yes, I did a normal patchwerk 2 targets fight, the second target is just cleave (garrote-rupture and deadly poison)

[pliant apex]

even on huntsman, i want to apply garrote and rupture to the pet always?

[plain thistle]

yes, because that damage counts

fights like council the dots are there just to funnel more damage into the main target

[pliant apex]

dam, that makes the fight harder

ah yea

no wonder my parses are almost always green

[plain thistle]

and thats not simple "dots everything" because if you do that, you will lose damage on the main target

[pliant apex]

exactly

so how does one balance it?

practice?

[plain thistle]

you need to know the fights, know what type of damage is important, etc

for example, 2 targets with dots is a dps increase on the main taget, while 3 targets with full dots isnt a dps increase for the main target, because you would need to waste a lot of gcd and combo points to maintain those dots

[pliant apex]

ahh ic ic , thanks that helps

i suppose to know fights, practice comes into play, its basically just doing more of the fight

[gilded seal]

As Kyrian and Sin, is it not worth it to consume the ER buff. Looking at the sample sequence in the SimC API it looks like it ignores it when it gets the correct number of CPs and just uses another builder?

[safe sluice]

Do we put zoldyck on legs or feet?

Legs I'd imagine?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[balmy condor]

It’s worth

[pliant apex]

as venthyr, should i use flagellation only with vendetta, or simply use it on cd?

[balmy condor]

But I think you’re correct that there’s some check missing, I’ll take a look at it in a bit

[balmy condor]

On cd

[pliant apex]

ty

[uncut walrus]

So how's sinafter 3 days of testing?

[spice spire]

Imagine being a venthyr assassination rogue

[limber swallow]

Some of us live that life.

[spice spire]

I do too

[rocky ruin]

@uncut walrus its good not perfect but its good still Outlul/Sub are still better

[balmy condor]

Is aight

[rocky ruin]

was checking logs earlier idk but i think outlul and sub are far better

maybe ppl arent playing assa even now after that buff, but the logs kinda show that Assa is still behind

[balmy condor]

Not sure about “far” better

But definitely better, yes

I think the difference is definitely manageable

[uncut walrus]

i do think that sub is pretty low tier compared to other spec but maybe thats on melee

[balmy condor]

Sin’s niche atm is people who don’t want to or can’t optimally play the other specs

[uncut walrus]

other classes sorry

[balmy condor]

And execute damage

[mossy gazelle]

Does bone shard work with things like mastery and exanguinate?

[balmy condor]

No

[mossy gazelle]

😭

Does it at least work with doomblade?

[spice spire]

Nope

The only very limited interaction seems to be sepsis with shiv

[stoic needle]

[modest dove]

Which is big hype

Where my NF mut bros at

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

Every day I think about switching

[modest dove]

[stoic needle]

This'd be the third time

[frozen jasper]

Sepsis ftw

[modest dove]

Soo did a few keys yesterday

I got the aoe shit down

Its so fucking satisfying omg lol

[stoic needle]

somehow venthyr's skills are actually worse than necro, I didn't think it was possible

[modest dove]

We did de other side and was in xyexas wing and my guildy bear was just pulling everything and all i could think about was kylo ren screaming MORE

Lmao

[frozen jasper]

How to play aoe in m+ ? Always CT cause im skilled with PB and multidot as many targets as possible and if dots are up i envenom on main Target

[balmy condor]

Gotta do the CT jiggle

[modest dove]

Yeah

[frozen jasper]

Is CT much better than that ? And how do i include it in rotation?

[balmy condor]

Spread ruptures to anything that lives long enough, maintain CT on everything, etc

[modest dove]

Garrotes and ruptures for big dick energy regen and spam FoK and CT

Rinse and repeat

Hellooooo cleaveasaurus

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t spam CT on less than 6

But yeh

[spice spire]

Venthyr abilities do feel bad

[frozen jasper]

Alright so id do the same thing leaving the envenoms out and CT instead ?

[balmy condor]

You maintain CT, and if you for some reason have CP left over, you’d envenom

[modest dove]

It ticks pretty quick so bleed maintenance and CT but yeah if you get some good CP proc throw an envenom

[frozen jasper]

Aight sounds good ill give it a try. I just love PB i dont know why. Only thing that sucks is that it is so Random

[modest dove]

And i see what you're saying about rupture snipes whispyr

Def situational

[stoic needle]

Apparently the threshold for spreading ruptures vs going for envenoms is when you have 5 bleeds up on various targets

Instead of every target being dotted like I was usually doing

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[modest dove]

Because of energy overcap right

[balmy condor]

That’s an old check iirc

Because of 8.3

I have some checking I need to do

[frozen jasper]

And i guess garrote up to 3-4 targets with subt Right ? Thats what im doing atleast then Apply ruptures

[modest dove]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

Yep

[modest dove]

It feels so good once you get it down haha

[stoic needle]

I'd be interested to see what you find. The when to dot vs when to envenom thing is what I'm currently trying to figure out

[frozen jasper]

So you mean over 5 ruptures isnt worth going for ?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

I also need to recheck non-empowered garrotes in aoe

[frozen jasper]

I mean thats quite Hard to maintain anyways

[frozen jasper]

5 ruptures is a Lot

[balmy condor]

No, it’s not 5 ruptures

It’s 5 dots

[stoic needle]

It's moreso like any combo of ruptures and garottes up to 5

[balmy condor]

So 3 subt + 2 ruptures

[modest dove]

Yeah

[frozen jasper]

Ah ic

Makes more Sense that war

[stoic needle]

but yes 5 ruptures isn't worth going for haha

[frozen jasper]

Way

[stoic needle]

I'm going to see if I can make a weakaura to give me some kind of indicator that I've got enough going

[frozen jasper]

So just for my understanding, i do e.g. 3 garrotes at start of fight apply 2 ruptures and then CT like a maniac till the other bleeds rund out right ?

[balmy condor]

You CT at higher priority

[misty holly]

I've been pretty happy about necro on explosive week here. It's REAL handy for taking out orbs.

[frozen jasper]

Higher priority than having 5 dots running you mean ?

[balmy condor]

The dot priority in aoe

[stoic needle]

you ct right after the first 3 garrottes and then every time it's in pandemic

[balmy condor]

Is subt garrote > Ct > rup till 5 > ct on 6 target > envenom

As of now

I need to check on rup till 5, normal garrote, and how many targets CT spamming is worth

[stoic needle]

I want to stick it out but I'm afraid blizzard won't fix them

[frozen jasper]

Okay got it thank you, just never played with CT before so im just curious

[modest dove]

It'll take a few pulls to get down but it's butter when you do

[balmy condor]

Ct is very strong

The only reason we don’t take it in single target is because it eats too many CP we could use on envenom

[stoic needle]

Could our crit ever get to a point where we would use ct on ST?

[frozen jasper]

Just got to find a spot in my action bar for CT now lol it’s so full with other shit

[stoic needle]

Could put it on a shift modifier on rupture

[balmy condor]

Why would that matter

[stoic needle]

I have it on the same mouse button I used for sectech

[frozen jasper]

Good idea !

[stoic needle]

Getting 4cp from more frequent double mutilate crits

[balmy condor]

Yeah but you would still use them on envenom rather than CT

[spice spire]

The mog diff tho

[stoic needle]

Oh okay

[frozen jasper]

Venthyr mog ?

[stoic needle]

Here's the thing tho, there is fuck all for red armor mogs in the game so you're kinda just stuck with the covenant armor and like 2 or 3 other sets

[spice spire]

Ye

[stoic needle]

I'm trying to build some non-full set mogs for venthyr and I'm finding it fucking impossible

[spice spire]

I end up doing full armor minus helm, using sargeras’s cursed vision, and the red king slayers

[frozen jasper]

I‘d love to get those back transmog blades as NF rogue but unfortunately it’s a covenant thing

[stoic needle]

There's like the black temple set, the PvP tint of the HFC set and that's about it

[spice spire]

Or whatever legendary ended up being red. Yeah it’s definitely an oof.

But at least night fae’s abilities do stuff :^)

[stoic needle]

I'd be able to deal with flag being clunky if our soulbinds weren't also a rng clown fiesta

Or just literally useless like draven

It just feels like the other covs get value from their stuff every pull

[spice spire]

Yeah I never paid attention, until doing mythics last night. Nadjia felt really good when she procced and I’d top the lock and monk, but on most bosses it just didn’t, even on tyrannical

[stoic needle]

But half the time it's like I have no covenant at all because of the timing of shit

[frozen jasper]

The thing is, in my view venthyr is the covenant that fits assa rogue the best, cause of blood and shit. But covenant and cov ability just doenst make it worth taking

For me at least

I can see why you guys still picked it tho

[spice spire]

I’ll bring out the pasta...
Of course Venthyr is the covenant to pick if you go assassination:

It bleeds ✅
It provides haste ✅
It does no damage ✅

It’s built for assassin rogues!

[modest dove]

I went with NF for sepsis with eventual mut swap in mind

[stoic needle]

I saw the sims where they were nearly close and thought it would be fine

[modest dove]

Which i made the switch and am big happy

[stoic needle]

The sims do not reflect reality in the case of venthyr

[spice spire]

Nadjia is sim bait

[stoic needle]

Nadjia is 100% sim bait

Dude I did some keys with theotar instead of nadjia and it was noticeably better

Because his proc activates when you use an ability

It only rarely procced when I was refreshing SnD between packs or whatever

[spice spire]

I’ll test that tonight. Just to make sure, but yeah nadjia in a perfect world where it procs at the beginning and is smooth throughout feels great. But in mythics

[stoic needle]

Even in raids

Thrill seeker during shriekwing intermission

Every fucking time

[spice spire]

Yeah, it procs like twice per fight, and usually yeah

[stoic needle]

And it's only 10 seconds!

[spice spire]

Thrill seeker into a shout from sludgefist

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

Thrill seeker into intermission on densthrius. the list is endless. Parses are make or break on timing you can’t control, and it feels bad

[stoic needle]

Honestly I think I would've been better off if I'd stayed necro

[modest dove]

At least cov catchup is insanely quick

[stoic needle]

I'm glad I haven't upgraded the venthyr sanctum stuff a ton

I spent all of my anima for a while on the eternal crystal flip lmao

[spice spire]

That’s not too bad. I’m going to stick it out and fight the good fight

[modest dove]

Anyone familiar with septic shock?

[balmy condor]

no

no one here

who's septic shock?

[modest dove]

Lol

I know WPS and lethal are the go-to potencies but 115% enhanced dot on sepsis seems like itd turn a beast dot into a monstrous fast ticking slammer.

Unless im reading it wrong and not understanding fully?

[empty cradle]

dont forget you can do it with honor too! convert to seeing all items though

int offhands are the cheapest thing you can covert to purple

[stoic needle]

Whatttt

That's so sick I had no idea you could do that

[balmy condor]

it increases damage, but the increased damage decreases with every tick

[empty cradle]

buy these

enjoy ur money my friend

[modest dove]

Is it a tick per second or per 2?

[balmy condor]

tick every 2 iirc

all dots are tick every 2 baseline

and the tick rate gets reduced by (2 / (1 + haste))

that's the standard for most things

[modest dove]

Kk ty

I wasnt accounting for the decay

[marble hemlock]

@sudden brook

[modest dove]

Im like damn an 8k/10 sounds insane

[marble hemlock]

unlikely ill log in again until sunday

oh, wrong channel

me dumb

[sudden brook]

LOL

[modest dove]

Lol

[marble hemlock]

but you know what i mean sir

its a sad year when im posting outlaw memes in assa, and not the other way around

[modest dove]

[marble hemlock]

its a shame theres so few high crit items in the game atm

would love to try assa with a bit more crit :<

but like 25% just feels awful on aoe :<

[grim canopy]

so anyone here streaming m+ as assassin

[iron orchid]

I may try that tonight, if you wanna check out the shitty french assassination player I am

If so, I will link that when I start

[grim canopy]

Well shit i can't even beat the tank on some m+ pulls

yeah i think ill stick with my WW alt

[stoic needle]

sounds like you need to practice more

you should have no trouble beating a tank in dps in M+ as sin now

[spice spire]

I actually didn’t last night. I was on ST duty and tank pulled 5k on trash pulls :/

Stuff just died too quick to him, the monk and the lock, until the 9 and 10

[stoic needle]

Prot pally tank?

[spice spire]

Yep lmao

[iron orchid]

Yeah that's your life as sin in low keys in tyrannical

[stoic needle]

Fucking paladins rofl

I wish a dev played rogue so we could be as good as paladins

[bleak sedge]

lul as if devs would play a class that takes more than 3 buttons

[mortal tartan]

im happy with sin

i think its fine

[stoic needle]

Honestly like, it's not sin specifically

[bleak sedge]

im not sure if i will try sin after the buffs now. Currently still sub

[stoic needle]

It's rogue as a whole, our lack of utility and lack of damage to compensate, and how fucking trash garbage all of our covenants are

[mortal tartan]

thats true, i guess i meant im happy with sin based on how our class is rn lmao

[stoic needle]

Sure, me too

Sin is a blast right now

[bleak sedge]

our covenant arent that bad imo

[stoic needle]

Yes they are

[spice spire]

Last one is a big one. I have an hpally and the fucking kyrian and venthyr abilities are both ridiculous.
I’m overall happy with sim at the moment, it feels infinitely better than release

[stoic needle]

Just sit down and compare our covenant abilities to any of the other classes

They are trash. Unequivocally.

[bleak sedge]

dh covenant feels worse tbh XD

[mortal tartan]

i mean our abilities are boring but i don't think they are the make or break for the entire class

they don't really matter anyways, its all about the soulbinds

[stoic needle]

It's a death by a thousand cuts

[pliant apex]

if i delay flagellation on opener, and use it right before/with vendetta, will it be big dps loss?

[stoic needle]

Yes

I mean a lot of the soulbinds are shit for rogue too

All of the venthyr ones are shit, mikanikos and kleia are kinda shit

[sinful sentinel]

Comparing my gear sets, my sin set is within about 100 dps single target with my outlaw stuff

[stoic needle]

There's 2/4 covenants with 3/3 or 2/3 very subpar soulbinds for rogue

[mortal tartan]

nadjia is our second best soulbind behind niya but thats only because nf is op as fuck

[stoic needle]

No, nadjia is sim bait

[mortal tartan]

pelagos is garbage unless you collect all the orbs during the mastery buff

[stoic needle]

It sims well but thrill seeker is wasted more times than it is a benefit

[hallow summit]

!STATS

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[stoic needle]

Trust me dude I've been playing with nadjia for like a month now, it's complete shit

[fleet whale]

go Draven then kek

[stoic needle]

Every time it procs it's right before a mechanic

[sinful sentinel]

I'm swapping to NF either this week or next week

[stoic needle]

Draven is literally like being -1 soulbind as venthyr

[spice spire]

We did that conversation this morning, it’s 100% simbait

[fleet whale]

plus Nadjia's best trait is the last one

[stoic needle]

3% agility my ass

[spice spire]

That as well

[fleet whale]

the one that makes you do more damage to your main target

[stoic needle]

Dauntless duelist isn't enough to save nadjia from being simbait

[mortal tartan]

switching to NF gave me like 300 dps gain on my sim

[spice spire]

We also get a second potency next week

[stoic needle]

3% damage

[fleet whale]

just go Niya, good for everything

it's funny that all three NF soulbinds are good lol

[spice spire]

The mog though

[mortal tartan]

nf is just broken

[stoic needle]

That's exactly what I'm talking about

[fleet whale]

i use xmog so idc

[modest dove]

Niya