assassination

[vivid hearth]

Man i cant wait to get of work and try sin again

[rose condor]

i cant wait to get off work and do literally anything that isnt being here

[wind zenith]

whats everyones best use of MFD - it feels more annoying on sin over outlaw

i guess for rupture multi-dotting

*or finishign

[raw sand]

When considering swapping from sub & outlaw, to sin & outlaw. Is there a haste value to aim for before the swap is worthwhile or are secondary stats not strong enough yet for thinking like that?

[stuck tartan]

10% haste is decent to start with, but you would like to get as much as possible for sin

[raw sand]

Hope i have that with my mostly sub (crit/vers) gear. Feels bad trading haste gear away to guildies now.. Gonna check later

[nova gulch]

Does Sepsis proc Master assassin legendary?

Or does it just give a stealth ability and not count as being stealthed

[hazy marlin]

It doesn't proc it

[vivid hearth]

guess who got lucky and got a 220 dagger in vault yesterday

finally some decent weapon upgrade

[strange trail]

You can open the vaults in the bank?

Or is it from shadowlands?

[vivid hearth]

yeah shadowlands weekly reward

[strange trail]

Ooh okay

Thanks

[storm perch]

does sepsis proc garrote with subt?

seems like not

cause it doesn't count as invis

[obsidian willow]

If im multi-targetting, should i focus on getting garrote and ruptures up or should i be spamming envenom on one guy?

[quasi ledge]

It will silence the target as if used from stealth, but it doesn't get the damage bonus at all @storm perch

[obsidian willow]

I feel like our bleeds need to stay up longer on targets. Even on 3 target cleave, just trying to get garrote, rupture, and CT on all 3 of them doesnt leave me any room to envenom since the dots fall off real fast

[storm perch]

looks weird

[rotund oak]

Assa is not the best for cleaving anyway.Outlaw does that alot better.Assa should be considered as a ST spec,especially strong in the execute phase(considering always zoldycks leggo)

Someone shoot me btw,need 70 soul ash to craft str8 up rank 4 zoldycks..

[granite copper]

Have fun failing a command table soul ash mission assuming your kyrian

[rotund oak]

already finished the mission

[granite copper]

:)

[rotund oak]

🙂

ive miscalculated my total soul ash and its cost,thought it was 5k its 5150 to craft a rank 4

[rose condor]

R3 is 3250 right? Or?

[rotund oak]

5150-1950=3200

[frigid sleet]

3200

[rose condor]

Kk, ty

[rotund oak]

yw

[stoic needle]

Except our cleave is pretty damn good

Calling sin a pure st spec doesn't feel right to me imo

[stoic needle]

Envenom doesn't really do huge damage anyway. maintaining your dots is good enough for aoe, with MfD you can snipe some 5 cp envenoms here and there too

Like yes sin isn't as good as outlaw but saying it's not a cleave spec at all? Nah

[rotund oak]

When it comes to cleave i didnt sayits a ''pure'' ST i said it should be cosnidered a ST spec coz outlaw is just better,by far

[stoic needle]

I still don't agree

Just because outlaw is better doesn't make sin any less of a cleave spec

[rotund oak]

i dont think that your agrement has to do anything with facts

[stoic needle]

Yours doesn't either lol?

[rotund oak]

but ye,opinions are respected nonetheless

[stoic needle]

You don't take sin for pure st

That's Sub's niche

[rotund oak]

I didnt say its pure

dont put words to my mouth

i never said

[stoic needle]

Semantics

[rotund oak]

No your assumptions are semantics

i was crystal clear on what ive said

[stoic needle]

Whether I say pure st or st it doesn't change anything

[rotund oak]

i dont care what u say or think,i care what i say and standing for my opinion

what u say is just some distorted point of someones words

[stoic needle]

[daring pecan]

man, there's some serious "I don't care about what you say but you have to care about what I say" going on these days

[rotund oak]

thats where u lose the point as well

i dont care about what he says on what ive said

causing an arguement out of nowhere

[stoic needle]

I'm not causing an argument you're in here spreading misinformation

That sin isn't a cleave spec like come on

Just because outlaw is better

[rotund oak]

so outlaw isnt better in terms of cleaving than assassination

[stoic needle]

That's not an argument it's just meta bullshit

[rotund oak]

ok,you ar enot spreading

[stoic needle]

It doesn't matter

[rotund oak]

it does matter

[daring pecan]

I member when sin was insane at 2/3 target cleave

[stoic needle]

No it doesn't

[rotund oak]

yes it does

[stoic needle]

It still is lol

[daring pecan]

I mean really insane

[stoic needle]

No, it literally doesn't. By that logic rogue isn't a cleave class because hunters and warriors do it better than we do

The performance of one spec doesn't have any effect on the strengths and weaknesses of other specs

Just because outlaw is a better cleave spec doesn't mean that sin suddenly isn't a cleave spec anymore

[rotund oak]

who evne said rogues arent a cleave class wdym or even implied that the perfoarmance of one spec has to do anything with other specs.Nothing of it was ever meant in any case.You pick a spec based on how it performs on certain scenarios and move with it accordngly.Yes assassination can cleave,can it cleave better than outlaw?NO IT CANT

[stoic needle]

That doesn't make sin a ST spec

[stoic needle]

"assa should be considered as a ST spec"

This is just literally false

Execute is still good in cleave

[rotund oak]

To the given time and circumstances it can only be ST because there are specs that cleave alot better and funnel even better.If u wanna play assassination you build zoldycks for execute phase not because it can cleave as well

u are jsut strawman-ing rn

and its sad

[daring pecan]

but sub does ST better

so is assa not an ST spec either?

[stoic needle]

I'm not strawmanning anything, I'm responding directly to what you wrote in your comment. I couldn't take it any more literally. Just because something better exists doesn't change the role of the spec to begin with.

[rotund oak]

thats under consideration still^^

[stoic needle]

Execute is still valuable in cleave situations

Sin does better spread cleave than outlaw because of multidotting

[rotund oak]

spread cleave

lul

kk

try another class maybe

[stoic needle]

[celest ruin]

what do we do with our sepsis proc?

[stoic needle]

Nothing

Or a cheap shot in m+

I'm not gonna try another class. I'm gonna keep playing sin like I have this entire expansion. Stop spreading misinformation kthxbye

[fierce quarry]

I dont think that spread cleave is a thing. I think you mean AoE

[rotund oak]

He doesnt even know what cleave means

projects misinformation to others because ''i play sin''

[stoic needle]

Nice ad hominems bro

[fierce quarry]

Up until this xpac I played Mut for 15 years

[stoic needle]

You can't dispute my argument so you split hairs about semantics

Classic

[fierce quarry]

Mut has always been a solid 2/3 target spec, and excelled at ST uptime

[rotund oak]

the only reason i cant dispute an argument its because it was never there,its called a logical fallacy

[stoic needle]

Says the dude making logical fallacies from the beginning

[daring pecan]

the moment someone says someone else is strawmanning is when internet arguments just become hilarious to watch

[rotund oak]

Can only respect an opinion when its not a ''spread cleave''

lul

[stoic needle]

Go back to the sub channel dude

You fit in better there

This is comfy sin chat and you're ruining it

[rotund oak]

i fit anywhere i want,not that i would ever consider a person reasonable after ''spread cleave'' theory

[stoic needle]

Again all you can do is make fun of the words I use instead of addressing my argument

[rotund oak]

but you are being fun at this point

[stoic needle]

Keep going it's funny

Still no response as to why one spec being better at a role by less than 10% suddenly changes the role of the lesser spec

Just more comments about spread cleave

[fierce quarry]

Mut is much more than 10% worse in M+

Compared to Outlaw

[rotund oak]

i got one advice only which you can also not follow,dont talk about things you dont know.There is no such thing as ''spread cleave'',You cleave on a certain fashion,now go back to the rogue manual and start al over again,save us the toxicity no one casres what u think

[rugged dragon]

I agree with Oshosi on this part.

[spice spire]

How about we drop the argument (mind you I’ve no power and you don’t have to listen) because neither side is budging and you’re both just throwing your concepts at brick walls, it won’t change opinions

[stoic needle]

I went to check it's 12%

[fierce quarry]

12 > 10 if thats true

[stoic needle]

"save us the toxicity nobody cares what you think"

Holy shit dude

Do you even read what you wrote

[rotund oak]

Perfectly aware,cant say the same about ''spread cleave'' though lul

[stoic needle]

From the beginning I tried to respect your opinion even though I disagree but this entire time you're like " I don't care, lol spread cleave, lul"

You're actually ridiculous

[loud niche]

WOO

rank 7873 of all rogues on lady inerva bois!!!

[fierce quarry]

To be fair. Warrior t2.5 is your profile pic

[stoic needle]

Your picture is a dog with a lobster costume on

Who the fuck cares

[loud niche]

THAT'S A RANK 15 OF ALL SIN ROGUES

99 parseeeee

[fierce quarry]

How does a warrior know stuff about rogue

[stoic needle]

You call assassination MUT for Christ's sake

Because it's possible to play two games at the same time

[loud niche]

tbf mut was actually the OG name for sin

[fierce quarry]

Mut is Mut

Will always be Mut

[zenith flume]

oshosi you are wasting energy on them xD

[stoic needle]

When was it called mut

The spec has been assasination since vanilla, was still assassination when they added mutilate for the first time in tbc

[loud niche]

oh wait acutally seal fate spec was the true OG sin spec. and it was called mut in like BC thru WOTLK ish time

[rugged dragon]

only ever heard of Muti before, not mut tho

[loud niche]

RIP combat. the most enjoyable rogue spec :C

[fierce quarry]

Mut Mut Mut

Pronounced "Mute"

[rugged dragon]

Ive been thinking of this, what if they added combat back.. as a dodge tank for rogues 😮

[loud niche]

POG

I'd be a tank for life

[rugged dragon]

I'd be so down for it

[frigid sleet]

like some kind of swashbuckler tank, that could be fun

[stoic needle]

No

[rugged dragon]

Yeah exactly

[stoic needle]

We have one forced pirate theme spec we don't need two

[loud niche]

nono, not another pirate

[frigid sleet]

what about a pirate tank ?

[stoic needle]

I'm down with combat tank but not pirate tank lmao

[strange python]

Sin play feel any better now?

[rugged dragon]

yeye, combat tank

that would be sick

[loud niche]

but like, non-pirate combat wherein revealing strike gives tankiness

[rotund oak]

Wdym they added mutilate in tbc?It was a 41 skill talent in vanilla wasnt it?

[loud niche]

sin play FEELS great imo

[stoic needle]

[strange python]

Thats awesome river glad to hear it

[stoic needle]

Yeah I agree with some haste sin feels solid

Numbers aren't terrible anymore either

[rugged dragon]

And yeah, assass feels amazing to play on ST, not really a fan of the AoE version tho.

I actually was able to keep up with my sub rogues, ish

[loud niche]

yeah, idk about the numbers thing

[rugged dragon]

in the raid I did

[stoic needle]

Mutilate was a 41pt talent in vanilla he says

[loud niche]

i 99 parsed H inerva and green parsed vs other rogues

[spice spire]

W

That’s the sin life right now

[rotund oak]

nvm it was vigor,checked it myself,my bad

[rugged dragon]

but yeah, this would be like actually so sick

I would love to see it happen, but I doubt it ever will

[loud niche]

but tbf, sin FEELS great. I barely have to think, just press shit on cd and fit an easy 3 enven's into shiv

and with a bit more haste, i think i can fit 4

[rugged dragon]

What haste are you at River?

[loud niche]

1 sec logging in to tell you

[frigid sleet]

do we even use shiv

[loud niche]

20% haste

[rugged dragon]

Yes, it increases your nature dmg by 20%

[loud niche]

out of combat and without any buffs 20%

[rugged dragon]

and even more if you used Well-placed Steel Conduit

[frigid sleet]

I mean ik but from lurking all the logs litteraly none cast it

[loud niche]

what?

[rugged dragon]

You use it on cooldown, unless vendetta is gonna be up in the window

then you hold it for vendetta

[loud niche]

8 uses in the 100 parse sin for inerva

[rugged dragon]

sick, im only at 11% cuz I switched from outlaw today :<

[frigid sleet]

i'm looking at shriewing parse rn, pretty much none use it, I know the apl does but that why i'm a bit confused

[loud niche]

isnt otl haste > crit?

[rotund oak]

U always wanna cast if avail before your envenom dumps unless u have vendetta,which you allign

[rugged dragon]

Haste until a certain point

then its crit/versa p sure

[loud niche]

H lootwing or M lootwing?

[frigid sleet]

M

[fierce quarry]

Haste/vers for ST, Crit/Vers for ?+

M+

[loud niche]

the 100 parse of both H and M lootwing use it quite a bit

[fierce quarry]

For outlaw

[loud niche]

5 total casts

btw once people (including me) get better at knowing when shiv is about to be up, the dmg is going to go up, because more shiv casts with more envens inside them

[rotund oak]

exactly

[frigid sleet]

i've checked like 7 differents parses and they dont have a single cast, its weird I agree

[loud niche]

dude

are you reading what i say?

lol

[rugged dragon]

Its just bugged then @frigid sleet

[frigid sleet]

ah found one casting it

weird stuff

[loud niche]

I just told you that the NUMBER 1 PARSE for all lootwings on SIN uses it 5+ times

you aint gotta look far.

[frigid sleet]

it seem to not show under cast timeline

thats prolly why I was mongoloing around

[loud niche]

scroll down 1-2 more clicks and youll see it

it does no dmg, so you dont see it much yknow

[rugged dragon]

wut, shiv does do dmg?

[frigid sleet]

there's no more inital hit ?

[rugged dragon]

there is

[loud niche]

okii bai everyone! have fun, someone pls bug whispyr about peen still being 100 parser for some fights!

:3

[frigid sleet]

yea the dude doesnt shiv

[rugged dragon]

he does do shiv for me

his logs on warcraftlogs says he did 13 casts of Shiv on Hungering Destroyer.

Mythic

so must be a bug for you then

[frigid sleet]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rugged dragon]

https://gyazo.com/1cad63b505ed72ec75ccd0fef2a80f1d

[frigid sleet]

i'm just saying I got confused cause lots of top 10 logs dont use it

[fossil slate]

They all use it

[stoic needle]

The small pool of logs for sin atm means that people with questionable rotations can get top logs

[rugged dragon]

the Peen guys runs 23% haste with 31% mastery

goddamn

well then

[stoic needle]

Peen also double garottes in his opener which is just totally wrong

[rugged dragon]

depends if he is using subterfuge or not

[stoic needle]

He's geared but he isn't good l

[strange trail]

hey everyone! I finally got the bartender4 add on, and I know how you set up your spells is preference. but i'm at a lost with how to set mine up. if someone doesnt mind nudging me in the right direction

[stoic needle]

No

It's never right to double garotte in the opener on st

Even with subterfuge

That was a thing because of shrouded suffocation only and we don't have that anymore

[rugged dragon]

I mean, im pretty sure you still do it cuz of the fact that you gain like 6 seconds on it or smthing

[stoic needle]

Nope

[rotund oak]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XyHbB46CAfJZzwxm#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=11 7 hits

[stoic needle]

Trust me I've asked whispyr about it lol

[frigid sleet]

just crazy too me that a very high amount of ppl in the top 10 logs acutally dont do the rotation properly or dont even use shiv

[frigid sleet]

yea some do some dont

which is insane to me since its pretty basic sin rotation to use shiv

[stoic needle]

Yeah man that's what happens when only a couple hundred people play the spec

[fossil slate]

You got an example?

[frigid sleet]

thousands

[stoic needle]

All of the good players don't have lvl 3/4 zoldyck yet nor high ilvl peices to fill the slot that their old legendary was in

So it's gonna be a bit until they get in there and set the logs straight

[rugged dragon]

I went dashing scoundrel

[stoic needle]

Oof

[fossil slate]

So can you link a top sin log with no shiv casts?

[stoic needle]

Dashing scoundrel is kinda simbait

[frigid sleet]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3jAGVdZpMXCLFha4#fight=3&type=casts&source=12

[rotund oak]

rank 1 parse has 7 hits (maha) rank 2 peen has 9 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WYr62cajngyP9zbJ#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=13

[stoic needle]

Like akaaris

[frigid sleet]

r2 M shriekwing

[rugged dragon]

Oshosi, I just followed what the pins said, ST is scoundrel.

[frigid sleet]

ok wait

hold your horses

[rotund oak]

Bro all sin rogues have 5+ hits on shiv in mythic

[jagged elk]

its not in the cast-list

[rotund oak]

literally no sin rogue forgetrs or doesnt use it

[jagged elk]

but in dmg table, look

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3jAGVdZpMXCLFha4#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=12

[stoic needle]

Yeah I understand, they're a tiny bit of a misnomer though

[frigid sleet]

yea just figured that out

I legit look at cast list everytime

[stoic needle]

Dashing is bis for pure ST only, only by a few tenths of a %. Zoldyck isn't far behind and is better as soon as there's a 2nd target. It's just the better pick all around and fits into our execute niche. The pins could really use an update with some context

Whispyr says the same

[sick scarab]

funny thing is that they are specced MA...

and they dont use shiv..

[rugged dragon]

Yeah, well the pins suck ass then

please fix.

because I just got baited then :/

[sick scarab]

or they use after only for MA and gg ?

[frigid sleet]

they do use it, it just doesnt show in cast tables or cast timelines

[stoic needle]

What rank did you craft

[rugged dragon]

2

[stoic needle]

That's not so bad

[rotund oak]

cant really imagine not using shiv with 20% buff before dumping,its just wrong

[rugged dragon]

still a waste tho

[stoic needle]

I have a good feeling that we will be able to use multiple legendaries

[sick scarab]

exaclty

[rugged dragon]

a waste is a waste

[sick scarab]

imposible ppl not using shiv lol

[rugged dragon]

doesnt matter how much

[stoic needle]

In which case it will probably be 2nd bis

Well it's not a waste, you can still use it on single target fights

[fossil slate]

They are, people just don't know what they're looking at

[frigid sleet]

I mean my bad but you would figure to check spell casted you would look at casts tables

that was my first mistake

[rotund oak]

at least uve learned something new

thats something!

eveyrone makes mistakes,keep moving on bro 💪

[rugged dragon]

Zoldyck best on legs or feet?

[rotund oak]

legs

[stoic needle]

Fuu, you may want to consider updating this pin with some notes about how zoldyck is the more well rounded legendary compared to dashing. We get a lot of questions about it and people making mistakes in their legendary crafts because of the way this post is worded

[rugged dragon]

fkkk meeeeee

[rotund oak]

and the stats should be haste/vers or haste/crit

remember asking whispyr myself on this

[stoic needle]

Also I'm pretty sure lethal poisons is better than the covenant conduits for m+ lol

[rugged dragon]

Not haste mastery?

[rigid wyvern]

idk what your talking about septic shock is a great conduit /s

[rugged dragon]

How come not haste mastery?

[rigid wyvern]

cause mastery is our worst stat

go haste/crit or haste/vers

[stoic needle]

For now*

[rugged dragon]

Okay, this might be like a rude question then ig in some way

but why is peen running 23% haste and 31% mastery

[stoic needle]

Mastery has started to sim better for me after I got to about 18% haste

Again

He's geared

But he isn't good

[rugged dragon]

Im 216, does that count as geared?

[rigid wyvern]

also we get alot more base mastery than base haste

[vestal wren]

i am not sure what you mean by wording

[rigid wyvern]

this bit
Single Target: Dashing Scoundrel > Zoldyck >= Doomblade > Master Assassin

[vestal wren]

if you look at it

[stoic needle]

There isn't anything wrong with the wording, but it lacks a bit of context. It doesn't say by how much dashing is bis over zoldyck, so people take it too literally and you have to account for that

[rugged dragon]

Yeah, but who expected that as soon as there were 2 targets rather than 1, it means Zoldyck is better.

[rigid wyvern]

maybe add a note underneath like "zoldyck is still recommended for raid content" fuck if i know

[vestal wren]

wdym

dashing is the argumentally better choice for pure st

[stoic needle]

Yes it is

[vestal wren]

so whats wrong?

[rigid wyvern]

basically people are seeing its better on pure st and thinking they should craft it when like 70% of the raid is cleave and we keep having to answer questions lol

[vestal wren]

people not understanding that pure st is not always the best way to go?

[stoic needle]

But the community consensus is that zoldyck is better all around and I think that should be noted

[rugged dragon]

.

[stoic needle]

You have to account for people being hasty/not understanding the context

[frozen jasper]

yeah i think would be nice to know for new people

[rugged dragon]

Like me, I fucked up by making Dashing scoundrel :/

[vestal wren]

i also have akaaris as #1 on subtlety and it has similar diffrences

[stoic needle]

I think that's the same thing tbh

[rugged dragon]

Well please make it noob friendly then

thats all we ask

[stoic needle]

A few of my guildies regret making akkaris over finality

[vestal wren]

i don't see why its not noob friendly

[stoic needle]

Because a noob doesn't understand that pure ST isn't everything

And that there aren't many pure ST fights in nathria

[vestal wren]

if you pick a legendary for single target only you might want to pick dashing

[stoic needle]

And that mechanics affect the performance

All of those things

[rugged dragon]

It says single target

[frozen jasper]

i mean nobody sais the order is wrong, but maybe you could add a craft list or something with recommended first leggo craft or some shit

[vestal wren]

it does not say "raid" but single target

[stoic needle]

Yeah but a noob doesn't understand that

[rigid wyvern]

Well when the two options are ST and M+ one might assume the other option is for raiding

[rugged dragon]

Litteraly just add, When 2 or more targets involved, Zoldyck > Dashing Scoundrel

[vestal wren]

i mean

[rigid wyvern]

its kinda a weird split in that case

[vestal wren]

i don't rly understand the concern

[rugged dragon]

I dont rly understand the fact that the community asks for a favor but we have to argue to get it. Sorry if this sounded rude :I

[rigid wyvern]

Nah I get where you are coming from fuu

[rugged dragon]

Yeah me too, but some people that are new fuck up.

[stoic needle]

Like in a vaccuum, there isn't anything wrong with the post

[rigid wyvern]

Its just awkward cause the information isnt wrong, but can also be easily misunderstood

[rugged dragon]

Talking out of experience..

[stoic needle]

But we get enough people in here asking questions and saying they made mistakes with their legendary crafts that I think something should be done about it

[vestal wren]

this is not about the community asking for a favour vs. me not wanting to agree

i don't like making choices for other people, thats why i put out a spreadsheet and information^^

this is in essence just saying "we want to make choices for them"

but well

[rugged dragon]

No, because once more

adding

[rotund oak]

Fuu is right.You wanna raid,you have to learn about the fights and prepare accordingly.Sims are math,not here to nurture

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[rugged dragon]

2 targets or more: Zoldyck > Dashing scoundrel

[vestal wren]

the problem is, you never would bring assassination for pure st

[stoic needle]

How about this then as a compromise, what about putting the % difference between the options in the pin?

[rugged dragon]

how would a noob know that just got into it?

They dont

exactly

[vestal wren]

so, do you think that we make a pin saying to not play assassination on single target?

[rugged dragon]

Oshosi, that would just make it more difficult for the people

I think

[stoic needle]

Would it?

[rugged dragon]

you put in

[vestal wren]

because the average person does not know that

[rugged dragon]

2 targets or more: Zoldyck > Dashing

thats ltiteraly like, 5 words

and it fixes all the conversation

I dont see the issue

[stoic needle]

If I saw on the pin that dashing was .7% over zoldyck but zoldyck was x % over dashing in AOE that would change my decision making

[rugged dragon]

it tells people what gets strong where

Yeah, but oshosi, the same would be with what I just said.

[rigid wyvern]

Its awkward cause we potentially add more confusion by cluttering the pin so idk

[rugged dragon]

5 words I dont count as cluttering :/

[mint peak]

this is a lot of back and forth about simply saying "Zoldyck is the best overall legendary currently" in a pin and refusing to do so for some weird reason

[rugged dragon]

Exactly rixxis.

[frozen jasper]

i think the best way to put it would be recommendations, that way you dont tell ppl what to do and they can still choose from the options but they get a little guidance

[vestal wren]

but the pin is already saying this

[mint peak]

like youre acting as if people are saying you need to write an essay about it

[frozen jasper]

idk

[rotund oak]

it literally says on whispyr spreadsheet though

[rugged dragon]

Sap, it says on alot of spreadsheets

[vestal wren]

its in top position for both categories

[stoic needle]

But people are not interpreting it this way and that is the problem

[rugged dragon]

but is the spreadsheet this discord?

no

exactly

[spice spire]

!whispyr

[rugged dragon]

Just make it easier for people

[vestal wren]

the bis spradhseet has both dashing and zoldyaks?

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[vestal wren]

or only zoldy?

[stoic needle]

For a while it had dashing only

[rugged dragon]

its only dashing for me

in raid only

[stoic needle]

And just a small note about how the options are close

[rugged dragon]

and raid + dungs too

[vestal wren]

i assumed it was a copy of mikihisas ones more or less

and he also did put in akaari and finality for the same reason

[spice spire]

It’s noted below it

[rugged dragon]

yeah, in font 1

or smthing

[vestal wren]

i think people should make their own decision based on information

[rugged dragon]

I mean size 1

[rotund oak]

its literally said below the list,craft zoldycks

like idk

[stoic needle]

Another problem is that people don't understand the context of a bis list. They see the list and try to get every item on it when that's not how it's supposed to be used

[vestal wren]

to be fair, i think the spreadsheet is confusing

[rugged dragon]

This will still be the same, when you put in
2 Targets or more: Zoldyck > Dashing

[vestal wren]

because the "Bis list" is for dashing but does say "zoldyak"

[rotund oak]

very true but still the giant letters.. 😛

[stoic needle]

I think, that as a class discord, we should try to be as accommodating as possible to the widest variety of people. This means taking into account people's tendencies and how they end up using the information that is presented. When people are coming in here complaining about mistakes they made based on information they found here, something must be done.

[rugged dragon]

Exactly, and thats what I meant with the fact that we are arguing about something that will help the community

while this is for the community.

not for own purpose

[vestal wren]

okay, letme short go to your decision:
now we move from: Single Target: Dashing Scoundrel > Zoldyck >= Doomblade > Master Assassin Mythic Plus: Zoldyck >= Master Assassinto

Single Target: Dashing Scoundrel > Zoldyck >=  Doomblade > Master Assassin
Two Target or more: Zoldyck
Mythic Plus: Zoldyck >= Master Assassin
```So your concern is that people come in and pick the wrong one.
They now come in see "single target: dashing" -> pick it for raid
so the problem is not solved

[rugged dragon]

No, because if I wouldve known that once there appears two targets or more, Zoldyck wouldve been better

[vestal wren]

the literally only solution to your assumed problem is to make a pin that does say "craft Zoldyack"

[rugged dragon]

Not at all, again. If I saw the two targets or more, then I knew zoldyck

[stoic needle]

I don't agree with that. That's why I suggest adding the % differences between the options in the pin so people can be more informed

[rugged dragon]

Like, mythic plus, I count as 4/5 targets

while ST is just 1

where is the.. inbetween?

[vestal wren]

but isn't that the point

where you would look at f.ex. the spreadsheet

to find out?

[stoic needle]

Well obviously people aren't

[rugged dragon]

Ah, so you make something, and then you give half information to link someone to another website to go search there themselves?

in that case.. then why even make it?

[rotund oak]

because ppl need to search for themselves

[vestal wren]

^

pins are not supposed to have all information

else wowhead and raidbots wouldn't exist

[rugged dragon]

Why wouldnt it? Wouldnt that just be leading people to the wrong path?

[rotund oak]

or even the sims and the bis lists

or the general information and guidelines

making something that much easy doesnt make rogue parse 100,you need to search and test

[vestal wren]

a bis list is even missleading and bad

[rotund oak]

thats the process,its called learning

[vestal wren]

information wise

[spice spire]

It’s on the TCs to provide information, but if anyone has any questions they can check guides or they can ask in here. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve recommended “crafting Zoldyck’s as a general all around legendary”

[rugged dragon]

Exactly, thats a recommendation.

Thats fine, thats a pin worthy thing.

[stoic needle]

My suggestion is to make the pin say

(Numbers in parentheses are the % dps increase from the previous option.)

St: Dashing scoundrel(.07%) > Zoldyck(1%) > Doomblade
M+: zoldyck(3%) > doomblade (1.5%) > dashing scoundrel

[vestal wren]

again, the solution you search for is a change in format

[rugged dragon]

That just makes it more complicated Oshosi

[stoic needle]

Slightly more information would go so far to prevent this problem

[rugged dragon]

For new people in here, that would just make it worse.

[vestal wren]

and just convert the "single target" to "raid" and make a metric that would justify a ranking

[stoic needle]

Would it though?

[rugged dragon]

Yes, it would for me.

and I am one of the noobs that got jebaited by making Dashing.

[rotund oak]

btw you were not jebaited for DS

plz ma dude,its still very storng

[stoic needle]

Well when you see that the single target one is only slightly better than the best M+ one, wouldn't you pick the other one?

[spice spire]

I think it’s well intentioned, but the argument is just to make a guide - which there are many many options for.

[rugged dragon]

Im not here to have ''very strong''

I minmax.

[rotund oak]

when u minmax ST u dashing

[rugged dragon]

I played outlaw, but I enjoy assass. I wanna get as high as I can

[vestal wren]

the problem with that is that a 1% diffrence for dashing might be enough to make you have the same conclusion

[rugged dragon]

I get that, but most fights are AoE

[rotund oak]

when u minmax you dont cleave as sin

thats all there is to it

[coarse blaze]

when you minmax you just play monk

[rugged dragon]

No, because I minmax on stuff I like.

[vestal wren]

as mentioned if the problem rly is people making a wrong choice based on not understanding information there are only limited approaches to change it

[signal gulch]

if you minmax than you would have done the tinyiest amount of research and realized dashing is st and most things are not st

[rugged dragon]

Fuu, you just stated the problem yourself

then why not make it easier for people?

[vestal wren]

and the "most compelling" one is still just saying to only go for a specific one

[rugged dragon]

Awshin, I checked the pins, the spreadsheet and Wowhead

isnt that enough?

[rotund oak]

its never enough

[rigid wyvern]

I feel like wowhead recommends zoldyck lol

[rotund oak]

u always need to learn more

[signal gulch]

then you would have used your brain and thought i dont need the st legendary over one thats good in most situations

[midnight musk]

Just sim it and dont be dependant on guides, since u are such a min maxer

[rugged dragon]

Awshin, once more. I wouldnt know if Zoldyck would be better on 2/3 targets or not

because thats nowhere to be found

[rotund oak]

its literally on the spreadsheet,type !bis

[rugged dragon]

Yeah, amazing

spreadsheet says dashing

thanks my dude

very happy

zzzzz

[fossil slate]

Should just sim stuff

[rotund oak]

... spreadsheet says you should craft zoldycks

[strange python]

Sim the pins

[golden briar]

as does wowhead lol

[rugged dragon]

https://gyazo.com/7abe488d9e631875d48295985c582eea

[solemn dew]

Hi Guys! How has the assa buff been treating you? Does it feel good enough?

[rugged dragon]

It feels good yes

[coarse blaze]

feels better than the frost buff

[rugged dragon]

but once more, its not useful to argue anymore, since even the person that makes the pins doesnt wanna change something that would help the community more

so cba

[raven egret]

lol

[quasi ledge]

The pins aren't the issue

[rotund oak]

Nice quote mining,now open the bis spreadsheet and read the black letters,what do they say?Dashing is better slightly for ST but you hsould go zoldycks.Btw,saying that youve read wowhead but wowhead literally says craft zoldycks 1st means you ar estr8 up lying

[midnight musk]

Just Read the Guide or sim, how hard can It be My dude

[rugged dragon]

Why not put that in the pins then sneaky?

if thats all to it?

Why put so much information, if its gonna be useless anyway?

[midnight musk]

Becuze ur To lazy to open wowhead this discord should change for u?

[coarse blaze]

[midnight musk]

U claim To min max yet opening wowhead is to Mutch efford?

[rugged dragon]

I just said, I used wowhead, spreadsheet and the pins. Dashing scoundrel are showed most in those.

[rotund oak]

he even said he checked wowhead

thats jsut a lie

[rugged dragon]

ah yes, I am lying

[rigid wyvern]

I mean realistically if your guild was hard stuck on sludgefist you want to know whats the best pure ST option

[rugged dragon]

cuz that would be so useful

[rigid wyvern]

which is why the information is there

[midnight musk]

U can even check logs of wat the actual toploggers use

[rotund oak]

well wowhead says craft zldyck,you said wowehead doesnt say that,which emans u either didnt check or lie

or both

[coarse blaze]

low key my guild beats sludgefist easy. They can't beat council reliably though lol

[rugged dragon]

@midnight musk what toploggers, like, the 5 people?

Dont count that as a valuable way of looking.

[stoic needle]

The top logger uses double garotte in the opener

Literal misinformation

[rugged dragon]

And, yeah wowhead said that.

But the spreadsheet and pins say Dashing scoundrel

[main mirage]

Man, can we stop this discourse - Its not leading to anything, and its clogging up the channel hard 🙂

[rugged dragon]

dont have information on the fact if somethign is better on 2 targets or not

[quasi ledge]

Because Dashing IS the best single target

[coarse blaze]

no this is the drama I want

[rotund oak]

Dashing is stronger for ST than zoldycks,zoldycks is better all around

nothing more to add

[rugged dragon]

there you go

put that in

and its noob friendly

perfect

[coarse blaze]

but why

[rotund oak]

no dont put that

[quasi ledge]

It is?

[coarse blaze]

you can literally just deduce that

its not hard

[rotund oak]

^

[quasi ledge]

Use your brain a bit. 2nd on ST, 1st for M+.. reckon that's the best all-rounder?

[rugged dragon]

why make it harder for people, when you can do it easy?

[eager rock]

yo what people stop reading after 1 word and blame the guidewriter?

[coarse blaze]

fam you are too invested in this

you have dug a hole

[rugged dragon]

There is a saying.. ''Why make it hard, when it can be done easy?''

Or atleast, it is in my country.

[raven egret]

this guy is probably the one to sue the microwave brand because it doesn't warn for putting a cat in it

[quasi ledge]

I'll come round and spoon feed you your dinner as well if you want?

[rugged dragon]

Yeah sure

if it makes stuff that much easier.

[rotund oak]

your country is wrong because there wont be always someone to say to you what to do,the easy way

[coarse blaze]

Why put work into something, when you can trust people to read

[rotund oak]

you need to learn how to do it so you can do ti again and again

[coarse blaze]

that's what I have always said

[quasi ledge]

I'll chew it first as well, or let's go full bird style

[rugged dragon]

I like how everyone that agreed with me on maybe putting that there for the community just dissapeared

[coarse blaze]

Or, we can just be like the fire mage discord and have everyone ask how to do everything 24/7. that works too

[rugged dragon]

and now its just, piss on the pisspole.

[rotund oak]

Never listen or believe anyone before you study hard and come to a conclusion,thats what will crate a minmax mindset

[coarse blaze]

because they don't care anymore lol

[main mirage]

Because its worthless to try and argue this point. Even if you may be correct, its clear that nothing will change.

[rotund oak]

the 100% parsers arent looking discord chat,they run tests,fail and repeat

[rugged dragon]

If you think, that putting a legendary down, telling them one legendary is better on two targets or more, is litteraly chewing and feeding someone food

you are delusional

[quasi ledge]

But it does tell you what's better for 2+ targets

[rugged dragon]

It tells me what is better at 4/5 targets.

and it tells me what is best at 1 target

the inbetween, is nowhere to be seen

[rotund oak]

!bis

[main mirage]

⏰😎 👉 🛑

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[rugged dragon]

Sap, I get that there is a BiS list, but why refer someone to a page, when you can just put it on the spot where people look first.

[coarse blaze]

add a face for filthy frank Twinly

[quasi ledge]

Dashing is slightly higher in only single target, should still craft zoldyck for execute

[coarse blaze]

or just sunglasses lol

[quasi ledge]

There we go

Big bold text

On the spreadsheet you "checked"

[main mirage]

idk i dont have a Frank emote i think

[spice spire]

I think if you don’t know for sure, it’s a safe bet to always ask. Again, I answer this question a few times a day, and I’m not saying im shit. It’s just a common question that I can answer based on my experience. You won’t be annoying anyone with best all around legendary because it’s not necessarily in the pins.

[coarse blaze]

nah dude that works

perfect

[rugged dragon]

I also get this, but I had to make it on the spot. Because I was in a hurry at the moment I was done checking stuff. Didnt have the time to ask.

[coarse blaze]

oh, is there an updated like.....dps sim ranking somewhere?

like after these buffs?

[spice spire]

Sometimes it’s better to know than to be hasty with your info.

There is, but only ST

Oh not after the second round

[main mirage]

So anyways... i started blasting

[coarse blaze]

hey no

we ain't fire mages lol

[rotund oak]

Whispyr did some job there,whatever confusing or not for everyone to read and evaluate and ask on top of that in order to make it even better for future use.

Not using the spreadsheet in such a situation or not checking woehead

is just wrong

because it comes out you crafted dashing based on a fast look,without doing any serious ground work

i think thats the truth

but still,besides eveyrthing else,dashing is still VERY good

[coarse blaze]

I I specifically started playing rogue so I didn't have to be blasting lol

[spice spire]

ABB - Always Be Blasting

[rotund oak]

and its not FUU's job to change pins because he is not responsible to make a decision

[frozen jasper]

lol this discussion is still going on

[rugged dragon]

nah we just got done with it

[main mirage]

ye idk gatekeepers gatekeeping, and lazy boys being lazy - poggers debate

[spice spire]

I think the point’s been hit home here. TCs are just here to provide information, our job as players is to inquire more in-depth if we don’t know or are unsure or interpret that information and do what we think is best.

[rotund oak]

im sorry for coming back and forth but ive actually run the spreadsheet once again and the wowhead guidelines

[coarse blaze]

(dramatic music)

nvm I thought you were gonna come back with a big climax statment

its cool

[rotund oak]

lol no 😛

[coarse blaze]

(sad tuba blasts)

[verbal mantle]

[main mirage]

Silenttoast, silenttoast - you already know whooo it isssss

Now watch me whip, watch me nae nae

[coarse blaze]

would yall agree that we have the comfiest rotation out of the rogues?

or am i literally just forgetting buttons to press

[raven egret]

yes we can afk all the time

[frozen jasper]

just autohit

[spice spire]

We do have a comfy rotation

[rotund oak]

we got the shiv/VT window

hold on bro lul

[modest dove]

Havent played mut since cata, picked it back up yesterday for pvp. Im loving it

[coarse blaze]

blizzard - "here, one attack, all your energy, big damage"
me - cool thanks fam

[strange python]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[royal lantern]

except that mut does 0 dmg by itself right

[toxic tusk]

What?

Oh, sarcasm

It’s early.

[misty holly]

So Zoldyacks on pants and boots both? I like the sound of this!

[fading wigeon]

Pants

[obsidian willow]

Is it worth getting katar for m+?

[normal spoke]

maybe if you have pelagos and can get two potency soulbinds

am still thinking that ssin will get more %dmg increases... watch us get vendetta passive buff ... only 17% to go

[dreamy jungle]

does anybody here alrdy have some logs of hc raid with new buff ?

[vestal wren]

you could filter to na logs from yesterday

[fossil slate]

There's quite a few you can find on wcl

[vestal wren]

but i don't think you will see a dramaic change in assassination players

subtlety is still the better pure st spec and outlaw does better cleave/aoe

[dreamy jungle]

well comparing outlaw and sub in logs

outlaw is also better in st

looking at the top outlaw and sub logs u can see theyre outpeforming sub also

[vestal wren]

looks to be about "on par"

[daring pecan]

this is what outperforming looks like...

[vestal wren]

to be fair sub/outlaw are close enough to make both strong on pure st

the usual reason for picking subtlety over outlaw is the better consistency and the diffrent damage profile

[dreamy jungle]

i said top means top players, the best outlaw rouge has around 400+ dps more on each boss than the best sub rouge

[vestal wren]

(kyrian bug is iirc also not fixed, so outlaw is actually a bit stronger on pure st)

[vestal wren]

thats a bad comparison metric

so, letme explain why:
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T26_Raid.html

if you compare the "#1 log" of each spec you compare the "most lucky" one.
as you see the line there goes a bit higher

what does this mean in numbers?

[dreamy jungle]

like best crits

best postioning or skill use of boss and player

or lucky

better said

but the thing is it was on every boss

[vestal wren]

The sim actually shows a similar diffrence on the maximum:

ofc the simulations has ~8k "logs" compared to the more limited amount on wcl

source: https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T26_Raid.html

[iron sinew]

What’s this bug now?

[agile oar]

ok lad's so how is sin looking can i trade sub for sin?

[vestal wren]

er does apply fw if used from stealth on outlaw/sin

[vestal wren]

you probably won't

[agile oar]

i want sin's to shine dang it

[vestal wren]

assassination could be interesting on fights with extended execute phase

but i don't think it will be the dominant pick else

it still beats sub on cleave tho

[iron sinew]

Find weakness even in the outlaw spec?

Dang

[dreamy jungle]

i dont think ill swtitch to assi until we can have more legis or we get set bonus from new raid

[agile oar]

@vestal wren what about pvp will it be good for that?

[vestal wren]

i don't follow the pvp meta

but i guess the buff is exciting for pvp because it gives people a reason to experiment with assassination

[daring pecan]

doesn't fix the base issue that assa is just a worse tunnel class with less utility than the good tunnel classes

and less damage as well

[loud niche]

sin not good FeelsBadMan

but maybe blizz will buff sin another 5-10% and then we will be the dominant ST spec

[modest dove]

Its more fun to play imho than sub

[vestal wren]

i think sin could get another minor buff to be good

but i also think subtlety is not "good" because it only rly shines on pure st and is more of a sustained damage spec now

and you don't rly want sustained damage in raids usually

[warm parcel]

I dare say sins better for a plethora of bosses

[fossil slate]

I definitely enjoyed playing Sin last night

[modest dove]

Sepsis synergizes with zoldyck, no? Since isnt it technically considered a poison?

[fossil slate]

Missing the 2 shadowstep charges though 😅

[modest dove]

And yeah pvp has been a blast in bgs as mut

[vestal wren]

bsaically better for any fight that involves cleave damage

[modest dove]

Brings me back to the good ole days

[vestal wren]

or that benefits from the execute

[frozen jasper]

pvp leggo MA as sin or what do you use ?

[warm parcel]

Or even many st bosses

Like council or sludge

Sub just sucks balls on those

[modest dove]

Atm MA since my rogue is 2 weeks 60. But i use zoldyck for st bosses

[vestal wren]

sub is okay on sludge

the main issue it has is that blizz rly destroyed its burst

[warm parcel]

Subs one of the worst "bursts" on the pillar

[vestal wren]

yes

[warm parcel]

So assa dumps on it

[vestal wren]

its somewhat weird that sub is now both on st and aoe more of a sustained damage spec

when sub is all about burst phases and stacking damage amps

not sure what went wrong there

[warm parcel]

They made dance irrelevant

Cause you just spam it

[vestal wren]

(i actually mean i am not sure why they went that design direction, i know why the damage spread is so bad)

i think sustained damage is more fitting to assassination, you can do it more reliably if you put a lot of emphasize on periodic damage effects

[fossil slate]

On sludge would yall always line up CDs with lust as Sin? I ask as ours lusts on pillar 3 but I was thinking could CD on open, pillar 2 and Pillar 4 whilst we're still getting through all 4 pillars

[warm parcel]

Or you just ven 1st 3rd and end

As it dies after final pillar on M

[fossil slate]

Yeah that's reasonable for Mythic

[toxic tusk]

Is there anything special assassins can do in Castle Nathria or whatever it’s called?

We use shroud to get people in place earlier/closer to the boss, but that’s about it so far.

[vestal wren]

i don't think that assassination has anything unique that other specs/classes don't have

if thats the question

[jolly quiver]

zoldyck on legs ?

[toxic tusk]

Council is giving us some issues too and I was wondering if there’s anything else I can do to help.

[sullen hollow]

just play subterfuge on council

or on

no

[toxic tusk]

Zoldyck on boots. Going to change it over once I get e soul ash.

What’s the benefit, the silence?

[sullen hollow]

Generally dotting, the silence is good aswell

[toxic tusk]

Will the silence work on the individual three bosses?

[coarse blaze]

Wait does it silence the big lady?

[wary ice]

no

[coarse blaze]

Darn

[toxic tusk]

I was using master assassin I believe on that fight

[jolly quiver]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

If you you already have zoldyck on boots the difference isn't big enough to warrant a recraft imo

[sinful sentinel]

so with having a couple days with the buff, how's it feeling in raid? I haven't had the chance to swap at all because I can't seem to get a damn dagger over 184 compared to my 200+ outlaw weps

[vocal sierra]

Assa viable with this Patch @ m+?

[sinful sentinel]

Still rather run outlaw because of sustained cleave. Sub is even pretty solid with the right lego.

[stoic needle]

The real problem is not the cleave damage difference but the cc difference

Sin doesn't have shadow dance cheap shots or gouge so your teammates have to pick up the slack for you on kicks

[void herald]

Not sure if useful or how to properly optimize yet but it seems that all your DoT's on the target crit if you're able to restealth wearing MA

[stoic needle]

Garotte with subt is a nice 6 second silence at the beginning of a pack but that's far cry from extra kicks

[vocal sierra]

well i wanted to know it dmg wise

[stoic needle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vocal sierra]

i thought the buff might change something or maybe close

[stoic needle]

It's roughly 12% less damage

Way closer than it was before

[vocal sierra]

that's too much still

[stoic needle]

If you say so

[wind zenith]

^

[stoic needle]

It's good enough for me

[vocal sierra]

cleave is interesting tough

[stoic needle]

12% damage isn't going to be the difference between you timing a key or not unless you are doing really high keys

[vocal sierra]

whats your single target dmg @steep linden if i may ask? also your ilvl would be interesting

[supple mica]

how's sin feel with the buffs for yall that play it consistently - is it decent now or still needs more dmg?

[toxic tusk]

That’s definitely worth looking into.

[stoic needle]

Depends on the week. I'm 206 ilvl, during tyrranical weeks it's kinda rough because you're in more AOE talents. It's about 3.5k without pride, over 4k with pride. On fortified weeks I've gotten a bit higher. I'm sure with better gear you can do a lot better than that

[toxic tusk]

I think we should discuss too what level content people are running and whether assassination is viable. You don’t need to worry about assassination if you’re only running normal raiding and early mythics

[wind zenith]

I mean you don’t need to worry about in heroic raiding either to be fair

And even then it probably doesn’t matter

[vocal sierra]

Thank you oshosi

[stoic needle]

I find it fun that I can get very close to my sim dps as sin but I can't as sub

[vocal sierra]

Heroic Raiding is different, in my Guild and others i've heard from friends they look pretty close what dmg you make

@ Bramwell

[supple mica]

sub is def most punishing with mechanics and timing Oshosi

think sin/outlaw can get away with off time a bit more

that's cool to see for sin though on a sim

not nearly as low as i thought it would be - thx for sharing

[balmy condor]

It’s always very sad to see. I do a log review and they thank me because their raid leader was threatening to bench them because they’re blue parsing

So you look, and the guild usually is aotc or like 2/10 mythic by end of tier

[vocal sierra]

I would be excited to see you oshosi to wear a Phial of Putre and then sim it xD

[wind zenith]

@balmy condor yup

[balmy condor]

It’s such a weird community perception

That you NEED purple or something

Blue is already better than average

[stoic needle]

Mannnnnn

Me too

[balmy condor]

If your entire guild blue parses, you’re literally better than average

[wind zenith]

Blue is also good enough for heroic 100%

[stoic needle]

I've run so many plaguefalls Ive lost count

[vocal sierra]

:DDD wish you luck getting it ^^ maybe even from weekly chest! ^^

[stoic needle]

And I haven't gotten the Phial to drop nor in the vault once

[balmy condor]

Well that’s the thing. Blue is good enough for anything. If you’re blue on mythic sire, you’re still better than the average guild on mythic sire

[wind zenith]

Oh yeah that’s 100% fair

I meant guilds kicking blue parsers off in heroic

Are looking for excuses

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[wind zenith]

I mean arguably no matter what their looking for excuses

[toxic tusk]

Get out of here with your logic and reasoning.

[balmy condor]

Heroic guilds kicking really anyone is kinda weird unless they’re super fucking mechanics or actually are grey parsing every single fight

[wind zenith]

Or spamming naughty words

[balmy condor]

You can kill a heroic boss on prog with 2 dps dead

My guild did that this tier even

And we’re shitters

[rigid wyvern]

Pretty much, i cant imagine kicking someone unless they are an asshole / straight up refuse to learn

[distant hamlet]

does wound poison stack with MS?

[balmy condor]

With what now

[distant hamlet]

mortal strike

[balmy condor]

No

At least I don’t believe so

They might stack but DR themselves

[distant hamlet]

ok, that could make sense

is there a way to verify?

[balmy condor]

Yeah, probably ask the #pvp people

They would know better than me

[distant hamlet]

ok cool, ty

[rigid wyvern]

im like 90% it takes the highest value

[fading wigeon]

You guys were a fun group. Enjoyed watching your stream in heroic CN. When's the next stream?

[balmy condor]

I’ll do it tonight again as well probably

[fading wigeon]

Awesome

[fossil slate]

Does the MA talent not temporarily change your actual Crit rating figure on character?

[rigid wyvern]

no

[stoic needle]

I feel like at the current moment every rogue spec is viable if you aren't pushing for a mythic world first and I think that's a good state to be in

[fossil slate]

Fairs, I expected it to for some reason

[stoic needle]

The problem is that the community can't conceive that you can clear mythic without playing full meta everything

Lol

[balmy condor]

Yuuuup

[fossil slate]

The community 9/10 times feels they need to match a rwf comp on everything or they won't succeed

Which is a shame really

[balmy condor]

Such is having a “best” something

[toxic tusk]

I’m at 199 now and still get rejected from people needing 3/3 dps on like mythic 4.

[balmy condor]

Humans naturally want to optimize

If there’s a better option

You take it

[stoic needle]

The whole reason that the world first groups stack OP classes is to make up for the gear defecits that everyone else will be able to beat naturally over time

[fossil slate]

My RL just said "I trust you to play what is best for each scenario" which is naisu

[rigid wyvern]

I havent tried joining a pug for m+ in the like past month

[stoic needle]

But nobody seems to understand that

[rigid wyvern]

I just host my own keys

[stoic needle]

It's fucking horrifying dude

[balmy condor]

I tell my raid that playing what they want to play will always be better than chasing flavour of the month

I do the same thing

[fossil slate]

Yeah for sure, definitely feels that way

[balmy condor]

I haven’t played outlaw in a serious pve environment ever

I’ve done normal with it on occasion, or a couple keys

But if I would be forced to play it, I would be miserable

And that loss in mental

Is way worse than any difference the spec could give imo

At the end of the day it’s still a game and meant to be fun

[fossil slate]

I can play all 3 specs, and would if I NEEDED too, but am much happier doing Sub and Sin

and also not feeling as bad as Sin needing to move off the boss

[stoic needle]

The only time I can really get into keys is the end of the week no leaver keys where people take whatever they cna get

It's sad

Some people actually took me as sin pre-buff to some 8s and 9s I was astonished lol

[rigid wyvern]

time to set up a 3 rogue key where we fail to time it cause were all shit

[balmy condor]

I have a couple friend groups that I’m lucky to have

They’d take me whatever I play

[rigid wyvern]

most of my keys recently are with guildies

[fossil slate]

I haven't really had much issue pugging this xpac so far

I'm only sitting at 1.1k rio but am not really tht bothered pushing past 14s for the time being

[stoic needle]

Well

It depends on if you were able to get ahead of the rio curve

[fossil slate]

But I spent all of 8.3 PUGing everything, so I think i just got used to sucking up the lower keys to build the rio

[stoic needle]

I took it slow this expansion and didn't do any m+ the first week so I got behind the curve

[balmy condor]

1.1k is already well above average

[stoic needle]

It's nearly impossible to get groups as a melee without being above rio curve

[balmy condor]

With the gear changes and me not enjoying pvp

I’m just vibing

Tbh

[stoic needle]

People asking for 500+ rio for a +5 like come on lmao

[balmy condor]

I do my vault and raid and that’s really it

[fossil slate]

Yeah I managed to get a faily high score in the first week because I knew i'd miss like 2 weekends in a row of playing so wanted to get as much of a chance as I could haha

[fossil slate]

Best way to be

[stoic needle]

I had no idea that was even a thing

So I got screwed

[balmy condor]

Path of exile on Friday tho

[stoic needle]

I mostly do keys with my guild now but it sucks because we only have 1 tank that does high keys and like 20 of us who do keys

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

My tank gave up mythics because they hate actually having to move around

[toxic tusk]

Imagine being a tank and complaining about moving.

[spice spire]

600 rio

[balmy condor]

Imagine being a tank and complaining about one of your two jobs

1. Not dying to dumb and playing your rotation properly
2. Moving things to where they need to go

[warm parcel]

Yall just melee brain and letting tank die cause you dont kick

[fossil slate]

What's kick

[warm parcel]

See?

[fossil slate]

Sounds like a Healer job to me

[spice spire]

Ngl, all mechanics are just healing mechanics. So that sounds like the healer’s job.

[balmy condor]

kidneys a mob that can’t be stunned, dial up noises, misses a cast

Sorry guys my bad

[warm parcel]

Exactly

So dont you dare whine if I tank the adds in shit

[balmy condor]

I’ll kidney that add in sanguine watch me

[spice spire]

My favorite is, “we need this mob sapped” demon hunter throws glaive instead of taunts

[fossil slate]

I still remember a tank going absolute ballistic at me for using BtE in BfA on a mob in sanguine haha

[toxic tusk]

You guys ever keep a fun mental tally of which enemies in the literal death world have kidneys and which don’t?

Punching slimes and mechanical chickens in the kidneys all day.

[balmy condor]

Or that you can’t sap certain things

But blinding full on robots

Makes sense

Slime with no eyeballs

Ez blind

[stoic needle]

668 rio

I gotta just sit down and slam out a bunch of high keys

[balmy condor]

EU?

[fossil slate]

High keys on tyran week gross

[stoic needle]

I'm always the one who's trying too hard to kick the mechanics and I kick the useless cast and not the dangerous one

NA

[balmy condor]

Yuck

[stoic needle]

Fuck tyrranical week in general

[balmy condor]

NA is the worst

[fossil slate]

I'm using tyran as an excuse to play Sin in keys this week though

[stoic needle]

It really is

[balmy condor]

And that’s from an NA

[stoic needle]

Honestly I hate america

[balmy condor]

[iron orchid]

Certain keys are fairly easy in tyran, SoA seems fine this week

[stoic needle]

How's that work? Wouldn't sub be better?

[iron orchid]

timed a +15 this afternoon

[stoic needle]

Nice

[fossil slate]

Just the execute on higher HP bosses, I'm just reaching lol

[stoic needle]

Dei you are my m+ inspiration, I saw you doing all of those 15s as sin and it made me just go sin full time

[iron orchid]

I feel like the 8% buff added a comfy amount of damage in m+

In DOS you can reach nice numbers in those huge pulls

Imma try and catchup on peen's Rio soon, just need to find a stable team comp, which is coming together for next week

[stoic needle]

Please do

[iron orchid]

Just need to find those daggers

[stoic needle]

We need to make it our mission to remove him from all the leaderboards

[iron orchid]

Without getting any PvP gear, the task is quite hard tho

[stoic needle]

Yeahhhh

[iron orchid]

I'm so ungeared compared to him

[stoic needle]

I'm stuck with 200 weapons

[spice spire]

He can’t be beat, he/she is simply built different

[iron orchid]

207/207 with 214 ilvl overall

[stoic needle]

You know it's not the worst argument, that last 30% is when the fights really start to drag on tyran

[spice spire]

Imagine double 226 daggers. God damn.

[stoic needle]

It's ridiculous how much of a dps upgrade 226 daggers are

[spice spire]

Also especially for plaguefall on the final boss, execute damage is HUGE

[stoic needle]

I wish I'd gone kyrian and pvp'd the first few weeks

[spice spire]

Like I said, better mog wins

(I wish I’d went night fae)

[stoic needle]

I was necrolord smh

Idk fam

[spice spire]

OOF

[stoic needle]

I just can't get over how shitty draven is

[toxic tusk]

I picked Kyrian by like, just impulse. It’s worked out so far.

[stoic needle]

As a soulbind

[spice spire]

Oh I’ve not touched anyone other than Nadjia. Her passive is too good

[stoic needle]

Someone commented something in the outlaw channel about how NF and kyrian's soulbinds are on use activation buffs and all of venthyr's are random

[toxic tusk]

Oh!!

[stoic needle]

It really gets to me

[toxic tusk]

Is there an execute target dummy?

[stoic needle]

No :(

[toxic tusk]

Why the hell not.

@blizzard fix this please.

[stoic needle]

Like every other covenant gets their dps buff in a semi controllable way, but venthyr is just an RNG clown fiesta

I'm so fucking tired of thrill seeker proccing at the end of a pack and being gone by the time I get to the next one

Like what is even the point of it lol

I'm thinking about running with theotar for a bit

[spice spire]

OOF. Unsure about that one chief. Theo seems like the worst of the bunch.

[stoic needle]

I was running it in a heroic boe farm last night and the proc seems to be pretty frequent

You have to move out of it a lot for mechanics, but that's better than thrill seeker randomly proccing

But as it is now I don't know if I can say venthyr long term if they don't do something about flag or change our soulbinds in some way they're just such trash

[limber swallow]

flagellation is totally trash. I hadn't actually compared the soulbinds themselves. I love how draven's soulbind is just a worse version of podtender.