assassination

[dense cedar]

someone mail me a 190 dagger pls

oh wait

where do u get the yak again?

[main forge]

You can buy it from the AH

[dense cedar]

is it vale?

[main forge]

the dagger that is

[balmy condor]

The circular sin discussion:

1. The spec doesn’t do damage
2. “It’s too slow”
3. “Why do we have X ability, it’s bad”
4. “It’ll get better with gear”
5. Sin becomes good
6. Complains disappear
7. Sin slightly worse than other spec
8. Repeat

[main forge]

the yak? mists... but don't think its the vale.

[dense cedar]

Whispyr

that explanation is too slow

u should increase its speed

by removing the last 3 steps

so its higher apm

[plush oasis]

Wait, between every one of those steps Whispyr has to tell someone to read the pins because he doesn't sleep.

[balmy condor]

Like these days, it’s hip to hate on snd

[main forge]

Also you forgot the 15 "Better sim its"

[balmy condor]

During bfa it was hip to hate on tb

[plush oasis]

People hated on tb?

[dense cedar]

Whispyr idk if u have like math on hand for this

but does the energy regen of snd pay for itself?

[plush oasis]

Why would you not want tb??

[dense cedar]

costwise?

[main forge]

I still hate TB, its just.... feels sad

[balmy condor]

“Should’ve been baseline”
Now it’s baseline
“Well it’s a boring ability”

[plush oasis]

Ugh

[dense cedar]

it should be baseline

[main forge]

oh toxic blade... thought you meant toxic bomb

[dense cedar]

but shouldn't be shiv

[plush oasis]

I like having a short cd buff.

[main forge]

oh that's poison bomb derp

[plush oasis]

I agree it was super weird it was baked into shiv.

[balmy condor]

People hate on exsang now too

It’s just cool to hate

[stark heart]

KB >>> TB, don't @ me

[umbral rapids]

exsang was so fun

[main forge]

Especially with all the enrages that shiv can dispel

[plush oasis]

I still have to explain to people that I can't dispel enrages with shiv.

[umbral rapids]

i enjoed it so much

[balmy condor]

? But you can

[kindred wind]

Wait

Sin can’t?

[south umbra]

KB was fun

[dense cedar]

i think they mean

[balmy condor]

Of course sin can

[main forge]

Mind-number + Shiv = dispel

[kindred wind]

Because I don’t on outlul

[dense cedar]

they can't garetee it

[plush oasis]

I'm a baddie in sub. Sin can?

[balmy condor]

Of course

[dense cedar]

cos they need it for dmg

[balmy condor]

Numbing is available for all specs

[main forge]

but Shiv being part of our dps rotation is dumb

[dense cedar]

oh

[balmy condor]

Numbing makes shiv dispel enrage

[dense cedar]

i assumed u meant like

can't deenrage cos

u alreayd used shiv lol

[main forge]

also it requiring Numing is dumb

[stark heart]

You can guarantee it, you just lose a bit of dam in the process

[dense cedar]

why would it be dumb to require numbing

[balmy condor]

It’s not like shiv gives you that much dps anyway

[dense cedar]

u could then just run crippling and 2 for 1 the bonus

[stark heart]

But it's not giga common so I don't think it's that big of a deal in practice

[plush oasis]

Where does it say using numbing does that?

[main forge]

What other class/spec has to change their utility to dispel an enrage?

It doesn't

[stark heart]

I do still dislike them being baked

[main forge]

the tool tip does not in sin

[dense cedar]

why would u be using crippling tho

[balmy condor]

Yeh tooltip jank

[balmy condor]

Tanks dont tank these day

[dense cedar]

its never been a very

[balmy condor]

Vengeance runs in, does 25k burst aoe

[dense cedar]

noticable slow

[balmy condor]

And then fucking dips

[stark heart]

Crippling in sanguine week

[umbral rapids]

tank, more like threat holders

[stark heart]

[dense cedar]

i feel like i'd prefer casting buffers for my running away tank

more than the slow

[main forge]

tricks + misdirect = good bye threat on the dps

[stark heart]

Also 15% less damage from autos is great

Every monk tank I played with wanted numbing over slow

[umbral rapids]

oh i still play numbing dw

there'sa few situations where i switch if my tank wants me to tho

[balmy condor]

I play primarily numbing as well

[stark heart]

I swapped during spiteful

[balmy condor]

But I’ve had tanks that kite as fuck

[main forge]

Master of Poisons that sin is should get two utility poisons to put on

[balmy condor]

And they want cripple

[umbral rapids]

yeah same

[dense cedar]

idk

maybe cripple is better than i remember

[bleak glacier]

can you upgrade rank 1 legendary straight to rank 4 without having more than just 1 base item

[main forge]

They are both viable at least

[umbral rapids]

it's not bad at all yeah

[dense cedar]

i could've sworn phys ranged and caster adds would be scarier for a tank that can't build resource

but then again

[main forge]

You need Rank 4 base item and the soul ash IIRC

[dense cedar]

do Veng use a resource for tanking?

[umbral rapids]

uhh

souls self heal ?

souls consumed with soul cleave reduce CD on fiery brand - legendary

and they need to generate both souls and fury

[dense cedar]

yo where in kun lai do i go for this yak

[umbral rapids]

but demon spikes don't need a resource

[dense cedar]

i'd say crippling is better for cd tanks

and numbing for resource tanks

braod strokes tho lol

[umbral rapids]

idk

depends who's the tank

vdh and brm have an easier time kiting than a bdk

[patent plaza]

I always run numbing. Its guaranteed damage reduc, without reliance on tank

That may be a stupid mindset lol /shrug

[dense cedar]

Tanks are small brain

so can't fault u

[fallow otter]

Run 2 rogues 4head

[ember rover]

Numbing is in almost all cases better

Even more so on dungeons where you have to soothe

The actual dmg reduction from it is quite a bit, seeing as it's literally free

[patent plaza]

Most tanks have built in aoe slows. Cons. Dnd for dk (?).

[upper island]

is sin good now?

[bleak glacier]

viable

not the worst not the best

[low girder]

unfortunately you're still melee and not a ww/udk

[coarse blaze]

Can't wait for stats after tomorrow everyone bring your A game in your parses lol

[dense cedar]

everyone should play like shit so they buff it even more obviously

[fervent beacon]

Yes

Its why outlaw didn't get a nerf

[coarse blaze]

Expert Theorycrafter can't be more fitting

[bleak glacier]

why is dashing in Whisp's bis list?

doesnt he promote zoldycks

[balmy condor]

Who?

[bleak glacier]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

No clue who that is

[bleak glacier]

lol dashing is bis now? or is that old list

[balmy condor]

Well it’s not updated

But dashing is technically bis single target

[bleak glacier]

ah

[balmy condor]

But if you’re playing dashing imo you’re trolling

Cause if you’re trying to do single target on prog, or aoe, or m+

You wouldn’t use dashing

[bleak glacier]

yea im gonna run sin this week, guilds been failing on execute phases. zoldycks ftw

too much down time on certain bosses

makes sub damage meh

if i use SD or blades, then i get targeted with mechanics i lose on dps

[ember rover]

Sub with downtime does really poorly since their entire schlick is to cycle shadow dances, which you cant do if you cant hit stuff to reduce the CD of

[bleak glacier]

^ basically

[ember rover]

Assa with downtime does much better

[pure heron]

is assass gonna be viable after 8% buffs or neg?

[slow marsh]

viable yes

[balmy condor]

Pins

:)

[slow marsh]

best still up in the air

[pure heron]

when i was messing around with it last week i was super energy starved and it turned me off

[balmy condor]

That’s how sin plays normally

[dense cedar]

When I was playing sin the game wouldn't let me mutilate

I hope blizz fixes this shit spec

or im unsibbing

[fervent beacon]

Better to go with the 30% execute over the dashing?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[dense cedar]

I thought Whispyr already was quite

dashing

😎

[balmy condor]

[raw tusk]

How rare is a wep from great vault

[balmy condor]

Just as rare as any other slot I guess

[raw tusk]

Okay I wasn't sure if certain things were more uncommon then others. Hoping for a dagger so I can try out sin

[balmy condor]

It’s more uncommon if only because there are less daggers

There’s no special weighting

[dense cedar]

agi and int daggers should be the same item

[nocturne herald]

I had given up on expecting buffs before the next raid tier and undecided if I want to abandon outlaw now

[dense cedar]

Outlaw cool

[nocturne herald]

I love grappling hook, but I'm meh on the rest of Outlaw. Don't think an 8% buff will make assassination feel any better in outdoors kind of content tho

[lean glacier]

grappling hook is just fun to use tbh

[fleet whale]

assassination has been fine for me in open world at like 200 ilvl

I destroy most mobs

[nocturne herald]

I haven't swapped back from a bunch of ilevels so maybe it's better now that I'm hovering around 190ish or so

[green elk]

With two target cleave we still maintain crimson tempest?

[fleet whale]

as of now you don't run CT in two target cleave bosses

[stoic needle]

Only a few more hours

[heady island]

I think someone here said CT on 3+, rupture on 2

[scarlet ferry]

Is there a macro to use mutilate or ambush depending on if you are stealthed, or have blindside proc?

[knotty bear]

may as well just put ambush on a separate key, not like sin has a heap of buttons and you only use it for blindside procs

think there is some addon you can use tho

[wide linden]

bois

what convenient do i choose as a sin?

[dense cedar]

whichever is easiest of course

[wide linden]

so

which is it?

[dense cedar]

[stoic needle]

not venthyr

[rugged dragon]

Check pins

[fringe dust]

Still Zoldyck's for PVP?

or we running some wack stuff like Dashing/Doom?

[stoic needle]

nobody has done enough pvp with sin to test

i have a feeling doomblade is gonna be pretty good

[fringe dust]

sounds bout right, i'm just dying for this spec to get some more data

im super over outlaw

[stoic needle]

I tried out both sub and outlaw thinking that sin wasn't gonna get more than the 5% buff and I just couldn't get into either

So I just said fuck it and played sin anyway

Level 4 zoldyck gamer tomorrow

[sudden chasm]

how's assa now after the buff?

[stoic needle]

Approximately 6.5% better

[fringe dust]

buff at 8am lol

[stoic needle]

Hotfix isn't live yet

[kind cliff]

did they drop it to 6.5% instead of 8?

[sudden chasm]

oh yeah regional restarts ..my bad i thought it's wednesday

[sharp bear]

played sin all of bfa, hope it makes its return

[sudden chasm]

Rogue
Asssassination
[With regional restarts] All damage abilities increased by 8%.

[stoic needle]

Unless something crazy happens with nerfs, a huge buff, or borrowed power I don't see it ever being better than outlaw but it'll be good enough

[fiery wedge]

need more upfront damage.. the time for dots to ramp it takes quite awhile

[subtle tundra]

the reason for the 6.5% number is that the buff is only to rogue dmg abilities, so melees and other outside sources of dmg dont count.

[stoic needle]

If they made some of our more popular talents baseline and added new ones in their place it would be nice I think. Crimson tempest for one, maybe blindside or alacrity

[shadow tulip]

Shrouded suffocatio

Baseline

I'd wet myself

[stoic needle]

Yessss

[drifting imp]

Can't wait for the reset but I'm on eu

[sand dirge]

true, and we need something like cut to the chase from wotlk to feel less like buff sustain bot. keeping up three buffs is to much. SnD refreshing with envenom would be nice.

[alpine oasis]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[exotic pasture]

sorry to those who have to read it and roll their eyes, sims from raidbots arent including the buff coming on tuesday i assume, yes?

tried to search by terms to see if anyone mentioned

[steep obsidian]

check the numbers and theorycrafting channels

[exotic pasture]

ty. will do.

[placid ether]

I think it's pretty telling that most of our damage comes from white hits but Blizzard buff all abilities' damage. Shows how much effort they put into this

[topaz saffron]

Where does Crimson Tempest fit in with Sin AoE, I've seen guides saying throw it up before ruptures, and other saying only after 4 ruptures are up? 🤔

[stoic needle]

? Why would you want them to buff our melee damage? Also it won't stay that way as we get more gear

[stoic needle]

Before ruptures

[placid ether]

I wouldn't want them to buff melee damage. It just means there's something wrong with the numbers in general. Instead of fixing what is wrong with them, they apply a bandaid fix that isn't applicable to our biggest damage source

[stoic needle]

But this does try to fix the problem by buffing everything but our white hits

Anyway like I said, as we get more gear like haste and mastery the damage distribution of our abilities will change

If they buffed our white hits too it would just make the problem worse

[rich imp]

Where has 6.5 come from?

The sticky says 13

[stoic needle]

8% aura buff that doesn't apply to our white hits, trinkets or consumables is more like 6.5% more damage overall in practice

The first buff was 5%, which was more like 3% in practice so we have a total of like 10% roughly

[storm perch]

perhaps 13% number comes from 5+8 (at first sin got buffed by 5%, from next reset he will get another 8%)

but 5% alrdy in the game

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's 13% raw total. The big brains said we need about 20% total to be competitive

[storm perch]

seems we are alrdy quite competetive

with 13%

[stoic needle]

Eh

We don't do enough damage overall or bring enough utility to call ourselves competitive

Like rogue as a class

[storm perch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[stoic needle]

And the gap between outlaw and sin is pretty large, but it's good enough for 98% of people I'd say

I'm looking forward to long progression kills leveraging the zoldyck execute

Very competitive with sub though imo

[storm perch]

that what i meant, competetive with other rogue specs

ofc we can't shine VS balance or udk

we will see next reset

[kindred cedar]

How is assa now after buff?

viable in pve?

[keen dome]

[north basin]

The problem is what we wont see good geared sin rogues with 235 zoldyk next week

So we cant see good enuf parses)

[iron orchid]

I'm here for ya

[ornate raptor]

Gear wise for sin, haste and vers mostly. Which if you went outlaw before you got that laying around even as sub possibly

[eternal totem]

what?! legit?! what the hell else should i know that icyveins might be incorrect on?

so icy veins says, maintain 4 rups before crimson tempest

but i should actually be tempesting first... anything else im possibly being misled on??

actually, i did see that opener with MA should use rupture instead of ambush... is this another one?

[kindred cedar]

Ravenholdt says crit and haste is mainstat, guide outdated or?

if haste + vers is bis

[plain thistle]

for me is haste >= crit >> versa > mastery

but that can change a little

[balmy condor]

Sin stats are actually kinda all over the place

Generally just avoid mastery

[warm parcel]

It also says to sim if you want an accurate answer

[pure heron]

what wing does zoldycks drop?

[warm parcel]

As stat suggestions will never remain the same

[placid ether]

That would be Coldheart Interstitia. Is that up this week?

[pure heron]

mortregar and skodus are up 😦

[placid ether]

thatt was last week? Or well, this week in EU. What is up after reset, anyone know?

coldheart has been 2 resets, right?

[versed mica]

is it even worth it to make dashing scound leggo, seeing how there's not really any pure patchwork fights?

[storm perch]

you may go and farm twisting corridors for leggo

just reg 3+ until you got needed part of torgast and complete 6 levels (kill boss - loot leggo)

no need to wait for week with needed wing

[placid ether]

Don'tt think my 185 ilvll rogue can do twisting layer 3+ 😦

[versed mica]

doomblade leggo simming waaaay higher for me than zoldak and dashing scound?

[dense cedar]

can ya link?

[versed mica]

sec

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j5pnTaTSSgojmqLALdQDe1

maybe its just the armor pieces, gonna run another one

[dense cedar]

i don't see changing ur feet leggo to legs making the difference

[versed mica]

Yeah, it doesn't

Do I just not have enough haste/I have too much vers?

[dense cedar]

is it tracking the leggo with internal bleeding?

[versed mica]

I wondered that as well, swapped it to iron and it didn't make a difference

[dense cedar]

hm

in the pins it shows doomblade simming better than zoldyck

tho the last 30% of a boss's hp usually matters more

[spice spire]

How much haste do you have? Also have you looked at swapping conduits around and seeing what’s best there?

[dry chasm]

really?

[real bay]

[dense cedar]

No its just a troll

[rotund oak]

With the next reset im on 5.2k-ish soul ash and im wondering what leggo rank 4 should i craft(i dont have MA)and im between dashing and zoldyck.Sims go with dashing but is there anything juicy with zoldycks?

hey hey btw

[potent raft]

are you in a raiding guild, are you progressing mythic?

[rotund oak]

raiding guild,we are killing Denathrius heroic tonight

and im thinking to have an alternative rnak 4 leggo for ST

and since sub is dog,thinking of playing the old and loved assa

[potent raft]

what's your current spec and leggo?

[rotund oak]

celerity rank 4 outlaw

[potent raft]

this is a good ST setup already

if i were you (and i mostly am), i will craft zoldyck

[rotund oak]

thx for the advice

btw,what do we craf tzoldyck into

[potent raft]

reasoning behind is, the execute damage is more "valuable" in progress than overall damage

[rotund oak]

by that i mean what gear piece

ye,thought that much 😛

[potent raft]

if you are planning to go rank 4, go for the highest stat budget (aka legs)

if you are planning on keeping it rank1-2 ,i'd go for the lower stat budget item

[rotund oak]

no,i'll hit to kill,wont stay on lower ranks

[placid ether]

I presume Zoldyck is allso the go to for AoE scenarios?

[oak drum]

I see in the pinned tab, that Kyrian is the preferred covenant for sin, which I am. But in my head Korayn, Nightfae makes much more sense for m+
Are there more, better resources I can look at for sin rogues specifically?

[frigid kestrel]

Ye

[rotund oak]

btw,the leg stats from zoldycks are of the highest value for legs according to hero damage so i guess zoldycks is the go here

plus we stay kyrian and go with Pointed courage which is also very cool

im cringing hard with NF

[real bay]

NF is da wae

[plain thistle]

nightfae has two really strong soulbind upgrades at 30 and 31 renown, before that kyrian is a little better

but we dont have those yet

[oak drum]

hm, first strike seems really op in m+ too

[plain thistle]

31 is first strike (really good for dungeons) and 30 is a trap for the first soulbind, cant remember the name but the damage is nice

[oak drum]

I've been looking at fuu's spreadsheet which he updated yesterday

can only recommend

[plain thistle]

30 is niya upgrade, bottom left, you need to take a defensive conduit but that trap damage is really good

[rotund oak]

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/assassination/soul_binds/castingpatchwerk

at renown 31 nyia is 200 dps above everything else

[knotty heron]

Today after buffs, I will be trying sin in raid!

Hopefully I wont cry

[rotund oak]

im crafting zoldycks rank 4 by the reset

[knotty heron]

I kept it low for now

[rotund oak]

the stats gained from legs are huuuge

[knotty heron]

Still. If my numbers are lower than sub and I have to switch back until next buff...

Id rather not spend the money now

[rotund oak]

sub is horrible,was a hype

will die out

[knotty heron]

My smol brain simply cant handle outlaw

Ive tried and tried but cant grasp it

[rotund oak]

outlaw is opporutnistic,need to adapt way faster but once u get rolling is way stornger than all other specs

[knotty heron]

I think the random nature of roll the bones just doesnt click with me

[rotund oak]

ive played all specs but outlaw feels way stornger than eveyrhting else

rtb is not that random as it looks

[knotty heron]

It definitely feels better than last expac

[rotund oak]

count the odds makes it way less

last xpac rtb was insane in a sense u could fish all the time

now u just preroll and roll when possible

no cps needed

its kind of a diff mindset but not that much

[versed mica]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[agile phoenix]

Any assa sims? To compare it

[hollow schooner]

yeah actually enjoying outlaw a bit for the first time since WoD.
And now I'm debating between making outlaw legendary or making sin one

[grim canopy]

what do i do if tank just chain pull no restealthing

[ornate raptor]

Insult him

[knotty heron]

Vanish

[spice spire]

Cry on the inside

[plain thistle]

quit

[grim canopy]

what m+ lvl does sin start to not be bad

[frosty bridge]

22

[grim canopy]

i think i might stick w/ my warrior lol

[plain thistle]

yeah, just dont play sin for m+

especially when we have a really good spec for it (outlaw)

[fervent beacon]

BuT mUh DpS iS rNg WiTh RtB

[grim canopy]

I only played rogue for sin, liked it in bfa and legion for m

m+

so if its not sin its another class

[heady island]

same, but instead of swapping i will haunt all players around me

[toxic tusk]

Tell the tank you need to jump into stealth between pulls.

[strange python]

i usually just use vanish there if another group is pulled and i couldnt stealth

[toxic tusk]

And every few minutes that’s fine.

But yeah, I’ve had to ask tanks multiple times because they just want to chain pull.

[strange python]

but sin aoe isnt really amazing anyways so maybe optimising for that one rogue isnt what the tank is worried about :p

[heady island]

yeah can't blame tank for chain pulling and making it smooth for everyone but the rogue tbh

but it's good he can't hear my internal screams

[real bay]

cant imagine doing m+ as sin

no gouge, no vanish for stuns without crapping dps

[frigid sleet]

still I wonder how much damage a full stacked Hidden blades with MA & poisoned Katar would do

[rigid wyvern]

I might try that on my next M+ run, just go katar + hidden blades, pop it at the start of each pack then multi-dot/mut for cp?

[swift sky]

about 1/10th of hunters wild spirit

[rigid wyvern]

lol

[steep hamlet]

i keep seeing mixed opinions on this despite sims etc but for purely raiding scoundrel is the best legendary for that right?

[rigid wyvern]

pure raiding is zoldycks

Dashing scoundrel will do slightly more dps on a pure single target fight, but is beaten as soon as there is adds/multi-target

execute damage is also more useful for progress

[steep hamlet]

ahh i see, cheers then

[serene basin]

i think sin will be good for tyrncl weeks

adds will burst

[spice spire]

Sub/outlaw is still better for tyrannical weeks though.

[serene basin]

i know

but if i want to play sin, its viable

not the best possible

but will be playable

[spice spire]

Yeah

[hybrid tide]

looking forward to trying it out on huntsman--constant bleeds/poisons on both dogbear and boss should work out really well.

[serene basin]

hmmmm

[spice spire]

On huntsman it is nice

[serene basin]

outlaw still roles there

rules*

[hybrid tide]

like it was solid first week when everyone in raid was 170s and blue

[spice spire]

And you can swap focus to the bear when it’s sub 30% for more Cheese damage

[hybrid tide]

but quickly got outpaced

[serene basin]

yeah, its like 4 execute phases

lol

[spice spire]

Yeah, it’s the only time I feel great about the damage :^)

[dry chasm]

assas

piss all now

[hybrid tide]

buff is for all abilities--does that include deadly poison?

[rigid wyvern]

I cant imagine why it wouldnt

[hybrid tide]

or just button mashes?

[spice spire]

I’d assume all abilities here

[vital ermine]

you guys think the 8% increased dmg will bring assassination back as a viable dmg?

[sonic fox]

ii think so, i really want to see the simulations

8% is a lot of damage

[spice spire]

Tl;dr, viable but still the weakest rogue spec

[stoic needle]

It's fine but you kinda have to rely on your teammates kicks a bit more and use the silence from garotte a lot

[real bay]

i mean it feels like theres too many things to interrupt to play sin, and when stuff doesnt die so fast its worse

then again my group doesnt have hunter or boomer or mage

[stoic needle]

It's certainly not ideal

You have to adjust your group comp a bit

[vital ermine]

Thank you. Sorry about that

[stoic needle]

Iron wire should buff one garotte every 30s to silence outside of stealth or something lol

[spice spire]

No worries, common thing for everyone 🙂

[strange python]

Interesting to see a few class/specs received aura buffs. Moving the bar doesn't always equal an upgrade

[mortal tartan]

have any of you tried sin in torghast

[rigid wyvern]

Ya I've been clearing everything weekly pretty fine with it

[stoic needle]

it's the best torghast spec imo

[mortal tartan]

how so? im curious

[near pilot]

my sims are the same as last night, thought the buff would be simmable when it went live?

[spice spire]

Leaching poison + master poisoner is a big buff to survivability iirc

[rigid wyvern]

^

[spice spire]

Personally, it feels marginal with other specs, it’s still completely dependent on good traits dropping

[rigid wyvern]

I mean, unceasing chain link is stupid good on assassin as a common

[mortal tartan]

true

[spice spire]

But I’m also bad so that could be a factor 🙂

Red ink is also stupid good

[rigid wyvern]

^

[mortal tartan]

whenever i play i just try to get crimson vial to the point where its spamable and it gives me evasion/cloak/etc for 5 seconds

[spice spire]

That definitely works for all specs, and is a fine way to get it

[mortal tartan]

i don't think i've really had a problem with surviving, and if im getting 1 shot then i usually just end the run because of weak rng

the only problem ive had is anima powers just getting deleted from my list

[spice spire]

It’s always the floor two boss that I’m within 200 damage from killing just thump me and I die

[rigid wyvern]

Im still convinced Unceasing chain link is the best damage power we can get, garrote ticking for several thousand is just too good

[spice spire]

Someone misses shrouded suffocation

[mortal tartan]

yeah its good but literally every time i try to stack it by the last floor all my stacks are gone

from some bug

[rigid wyvern]

weird, ive never encountered that

[mortal tartan]

yeah i've heard some people just never encounter it but for me i think its happened every single one of my runs

[sudden canyon]

ah the joys of being a giga casual and not having to play BiS spec

[toxic tusk]

Am I doing it right?

[rigid wyvern]

How dare you not play the BiS spec and have fun playing WoW, dont you know all satisfaction in this game must be derived by being top dps? /s

I dont see a massive belt buckle 2/10

[toxic tusk]

...fair.

Next time.

[rigid wyvern]

I do love that belt mog tho

best part of bfa was the leveling/dungeon mogs

[toxic tusk]

I changed it up recently to a green belt from back when that I think works pretty well.

Oh yeah it was. BFA has my favourite so far. I like the simple looks honestly.

[pine aurora]

So are the changes to assassin making it actually useable now?

Or will I still have to endure outlaw

[manic forge]

I've also come to ask if there is a post already about the new buff and the viability of assasi. I much prefer the playstyle and would love to hmnot have to play outlaw for all content.

[heady island]

I see now why exist

[velvet ridge]

what missives for zoldycks leggings

haste crit? mostly raiding

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[velvet ridge]

okay, bis says haste vers

ty

[main forge]

So good I wish it was like a trinket or on proc weapon

[stoic needle]

the sim update went live early

[empty cradle]

could always sim yourself but like i think its just there's no downside to picking vers

and you need haste for sin

[stoic needle]

vein rippers, the extra survivability from master poisoner with mind numbing and leeching poison, and the ability to kite things if its going badly

[near pilot]

well thats disappointing lol was hoping what i saw was unbuffed

[stoic needle]

like if a run is going badly you can just garotte+rupture+poison knife spam while running away from the boss and kill it eventually

might take forever on twisting corridors but its better than getting 1shot lol

[mortal tartan]

yeah i just have some trouble on like the first floor with sin

[stoic needle]

LOL

[mortal tartan]

after that its pretty easy but im used to playing outlaw/sub

[stoic needle]

yeah i have died on the first floor a few times

but usually one death isnt enough to ruin a run

i don't die after that

[mortal tartan]

yeah true

[stoic needle]

the power that makes ambush apply a 5pt rupture is so sick

fuck raging week

we can't use shiv for dps nearly at all this week

[marble bear]

i dont even really know how to use shiv

[stoic needle]

on cooldown

forget that it even generates CP

[marble bear]

time to fit it on my hotbar

[calm dome]

Use it everytime its ready
Shiv have to be cast on CD

[marble bear]

is it a fun skill? 😄

I'm still leveling

[stoic needle]

it's fine i guess

but it's become more annoying than fun because it's utility for other specs, but one of our bigger dps cooldowns, so you have to choose betwen DPS and utility as sin

so you're almost always using it for utility and not getting as much dps out of it as you could

[marble bear]

I just feel like im so farb ehind

which is why ive been having trouble leveling

[cyan wharf]

How's assassination after the buff?

[main gazelle]

Middle of the pack

[stoic needle]

6.5% better

[cyan wharf]

Dam so still ass after that 8% buff

[marble bear]

how is middle of the pack ass?

theres like 100 dps classes in this game

[grim mason]

like I figured it would be, but a buff is a buff

[marble bear]

complaints liek this are why im like fuck this game

[grim mason]

oof

[placid ether]

which torghast wings are up this week?

please tell me it's interstitia

[strange python]

it is

[marble bear]

there will always be a top and there will always be a bottom

[placid ether]

aiiiight

[strange python]

It's coldheart and uhhh

That other one

[placid ether]

Coldheart is all I need ❤️

[heady island]

Do us and eu share torghast rotation/wings, anyone know?

[grim mason]

fuck chorghast if it wasn't for ashe's i would never touch that content

[placid ether]

I think so but not sure

[grim mason]

guess that why the lured us in with it

[placid ether]

did US previously have mortregar and skoldus hall?

[rigid wyvern]

ya that was last week

[placid ether]

then yes, US and EU seem to share the wings

[heady island]

Fingers crossed then

Awesome

[rigid wyvern]

Makes senes

[grim mason]

wowhead front pages hows what up this week right?

[rigid wyvern]

people probably wouldve complained if a BiS memory showed up on one region first

[boreal jolt]

I was reading answers about the question: "How is assassi after buff" and, so far, no one tried to put some effort on the question.
Has anyone tried to SIMC and run some Dummy trials after buff?

[stoic needle]

what effort is there to put in

[boreal jolt]

I'm wondering if is worth to craft my assassi legendary or just keep skipping for a little while

[stoic needle]

its just an 8% buff lol

[grim mason]

Its an overall dmge buff it has to be good, imo folks crying that it is trash are just weird

[hollow jungle]

Imagine...

[spice spire]

????

[stoic needle]

if you want to play sin

[boreal jolt]

Ok, Oshosi, its 8% buff, I'm able to read..
But I'm asking if this buff allow us to start playing it or if still sucks..

[stoic needle]

play sin

[fading wigeon]

It's in the pins

[rigid wyvern]

That depends on your threshold for whether a spec sucks and you can play it

[spice spire]

Like it’s been said a million times. And is pinned lol.

[rigid wyvern]

Ive been playing sin the whole expac lol

[spice spire]

It’s viable and around 10%-15% below top specs, but is still weakest in raw numbers. If you’re playing sub and are having issues with timing, it’s worth a swap to another spec

[marble bear]

imagine playing something becausey ou enjoy it

[stoic needle]

imagine not having lvl 3 zoldyck already

[rigid wyvern]

Theres no definitive answer for when whether a spec is playable cause its different for everyone

[spice spire]

Imagine not having lvl 4 zoldyck

[rigid wyvern]

Ill have you know i paid 100k for my 6 secondary stats on my lvl 4 zoldyck

[stoic needle]

give me about 4 hours to do torghast and farm the leather

[marble bear]

yall would have mopre fun playing something becausey ou like it vs playing it becasue its "good" none of yall are top 1% of players in here

[stoic needle]

ruka out here spitting straight facts

[rigid wyvern]

Jokes on you im top 1% of the 15 other assassination rogues still playing the spec

[dire pebble]

hows sin compared to sub in m+ after the buff, havent really been following closely since its an alt

[stoic needle]

better in cleave/aoe, worse cc which makes it kind of a wash

its perfectly viable for up to like 15s

[spice spire]

Top 1% is a pretty weak argument, but the spirit is right. If you’re doing prog on mythic, you’ve absolutely not been playing assassin, buff makes it so It’s not off the table anymore.

[stoic needle]

i just feel like if you're in here asking the question whether sin is viable or not, it is for you

anyone who's in a guild that won't accept sin can figure it out for themselves

[boreal jolt]

I'm stuck on Mythic Lady Inerva and my dps, as sub, is not near good enough (in comparison to others). So I got benched.. I am wondering if this buffs could rise my hopes to get back to the big bois group.. Because we all know 8% buff isnt, really, 8% flat..

[plush bronze]

are people incapable of reading the pins

wtf

[stoic needle]

Yes

[spice spire]

There’s a lot of things that go into that, hex.

[potent raft]

why not play outlul on innerva?

[stoic needle]

Yeah if you want to boost your dps you probably want to play outlaw not sin

[woeful wigeon]

ravenholdt ---Stat Suggestions:
Prioritize Haste, other stats seem close
icy veins ......Single Target

Agility
Haste
Critical Strike
Mastery
Versatility

is there any cap?

[stoic needle]

No

[woeful wigeon]

casue atm i got 21%crit 12% haste 29% mastery 14% versa way to mutch mastery on to mutch items

[spice spire]

Haste > crit = vers > mastery.
Diminishing returns, but very slight, pretty much the same stat priority

Mastery is naturally high for sin due to a passive. You definitely need more haste though

Anything sub 15% feels rough

[boreal jolt]

Because dmg on adds arent what is really important there, dmg on boss is the real deal..

[spice spire]

Outlaw is best ST

[woeful wigeon]

i am ventir en use macabre trink atm also

[spice spire]

That helps. Even still. You definitely want to get some haste gear. Rings from the raid help a bunch. The ones from sire and inerva

[boreal jolt]

You keep talking about pins.. That pin is from 4 days ago, I'm trying to engane in an conversation about assassination buff on assassination tab..
I dont think "8% buff" is, really, 8% flat buff.. There is more to that..

[hollow jungle]

Sub is perfectly fine on inerva, and does > or = boss dam to outlaw

[woeful wigeon]

they dint drop for me

[plush bronze]

The pin literally has all of that info if you know how to read.

[spice spire]

The buff was announced 4 days ago.

So this was a known quantity. And the crafters stated that

[rigid wyvern]

We did the math once we got the first hotfix notes, it puts us slightly behind sub and still behind outlaw

[spice spire]

The 8% buff is actually less, since melee was a majority of our damage and isn’t buffed by that, it’s more of a 6% buff to damage overall, though my sims indicate lower

[sudden canyon]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[woeful wigeon]

so you saying if i wud get lfr gear wud be better then normal /hc gear ? if they got more haste on it ?

[stoic needle]

no it wouldn't

the gap in ilvl is too much

[woeful wigeon]

that so

[boreal jolt]

Yes, this is what I'm talking about (or trying to)

[rigid wyvern]

You can make an argument for sin over sub if you are mistiming sub cooldowns / think the execute damage from zoldyck will benefit your raid more during progress

[strange python]

how is sin looking after the 8%?

[woeful wigeon]

why blizz just dont let us play exsanguinte ffs

[rigid wyvern]

I mean you can select the talent

[woeful wigeon]

we all want that xd

[rigid wyvern]

it just does less damage

[potent raft]

@boreal jolt think of damage profiles. Is execute damage more important than overall damage? If the answer is no - dont play sin

on innerva the adds dont live long enough to gain a good benefit of multidotting

better go outlaw if you need to pad, if not just sub/outlaw for ST

[boreal jolt]

Seems reasonable, ty 🙂

[potent raft]

also downtime etc.

[hollow jungle]

Rouge’s biggest buff would just be a dk nerf 😦

Hate to see it

[potent raft]

but on innerva i wouldnt call it a big downtime boss

[stuck tartan]

If they nerf half the roster then we're top dmg again lets go boooys

[hollow jungle]

I’m not even referring to dk damage...

[marble bear]

I just feel like im behind casue im techinically still levelign to actually find a class i like

i have a leveled raid ready arcane mage but i fell ourtt of love with it

[daring pecan]

or just giving rogue raid utility

that's also a huge buff

gief back old smoke bomb

[fleet whale]

looks like a lot of sin rogues are simming right now...

in a 1100 queue on Raidbots lol

[sonic iris]

is raidbots updated for the buff?

[hollow jungle]

Probably ppl siming their vault

[marble bear]

oh crap did the game just come live or somethign i cant get in lol

[plush bronze]

dk doesn't even need a nerf tho.

[hollow jungle]

Yes. Yes it does.

[distant cypress]

So good to see sin channel coming back to life

gives me hope

[signal kayak]

dont get too much hope

[plush bronze]

Got it, sick facts and evidence. But no, the damage profile just lines up well with the fights in CN. There's always a "top melee" spec and relative to several other ranged specs, DK is not overperforming. It's just a tough time for melee in general and DK happens to perform well.

[woeful wigeon]

so shiv wud do 41% increase dmg instead of 33% with well placed steel then also ? and deadly poisen 1215+8%=1223 vedetta from 30% to 38% right or m i wrong if they say 8% on all abilitys

[stoic needle]

you're smoking that good good if you think that it's ok for a class to have that much utility and be one of the top melee dps

[hollow jungle]

@plush bronze never even mentioned their damage bud, but go off

[fleet whale]

the main issue really is rogues lacking said utility

not dks having utility

[polar cape]

Make smoke bomb great again

[stuck tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-lotr-gandalf-white-pippin-gif-15253908

[polar cape]

Los boss mechanic op

[clever totem]

Got it, sick facts and evidence.

[fleet whale]

and let DKs have their time in the sun

they haven't been op in a long time

[plush bronze]

kekw, itt: rogues mad because another spec is top performing

[stoic needle]

either DKs utility needs to be nerfed, or all of the other classes with less utility need a damage buff

[strange python]

dks were completely op for all of legion

[stuck tartan]

I found the outlaw dk

[stoic needle]

there is nothing good about a class having near the best raid utility and the best damage

[hollow jungle]

It’s not performance based, holy crap

[strange python]

^

[clever totem]

I couldn't care less but just think your message was stupid af

[plush bronze]

their damage is 3rd highest, at best

[strange python]

they are top tier damage

[stoic needle]

that's not a good thing

[fleet whale]

i love how you are all trashing dks but are ignoring mm hunters, fire mages, and balance druids

[strange python]

if youre putting afliction and boomy ahead

[pulsar sluice]

range will always be good

[strange python]

then good comeback bro

[stoic needle]

we arent ignoring other classes we're just talking about DKs because this guy said DKs don't need a nerf

[hollow jungle]

Amz, grip, 1 min cloak, knock back immune, slow immune, and top melee dmg is not “balanced”

[woeful wigeon]

@balmy condor or @vestal wren so shiv wud do 41% increase dmg instead of 33% with well placed steel then also ? and deadly poisen 1215+8%=1223 vedetta from 30% to 38% right or m i wrong if they say 8% on all abilitys

[stoic needle]

theres plenty of classes that need a nerf

[fleet whale]

AMS is not the same as cloak

[plush bronze]

utility has not since wotlk, and will never again, factor in to damage balancing.

[stoic needle]

that's just bad game design

[hollow jungle]

It serves the same purpose as cloak in nathria

[fleet whale]

but i support buffing the weak rather than nerfing the strong

[stoic needle]

i would prefer that they buff the damage of classes with less utility yes

[fleet whale]

and it appears raidbots is updated with the buff

at least if you set it to nightly

im at 4979 dps sim... oh so close to 5k...

[plush bronze]

there really aren't, there are several that need a buff but none that outright demand a nerf right now. all this conversation is is specs being better than the one someone else is playing and people not being happy about it

[rigid wyvern]

doesnt affect any mechanics like percentages, all your damage numbers from skills will just be 8% higher

[plush bronze]

replied wrong comment, that was at the "lots of classes need nerfs comment"

[stoic needle]

nerf the strong or buff the weak i honestly couldn't care less

but the current state of balance is bad

[tropic charm]

I am highly debating coming back to Sin because I'm not a fan of Sub, but with that in mind, is there a leggo that's good overall? Or are there 2 separate ones I need to make depending on the content?

[warm canopy]

Zoldyck

[plush bronze]

that i will agree with, and it's silly it's gone on this long

[fleet whale]

blizz didn't want to rock the ship

for the WF raiders

[plush bronze]

yeah but wf has been done for weeks

[tropic charm]

I know the pins say zoldyck first for M+ and Dashing for ST, but since Zoldyck is second for ST, is it worth it to create Dashing?

[woeful wigeon]

Rogue

Assassination
    All damage abilities increased by 8%.

why they say it liek this then

[fleet whale]

it doesn't increase the damage bonus of shiv

if that's what you are wondering

[stoic needle]

not really no

[fleet whale]

yeah dashing is simbait imo

[tropic charm]

Okay, thank you

[spice spire]

No, because dashing is only better on PURE ST. Any cleave or anything that moves it out of whack zoldyck immediately jumps

[fleet whale]

i half wish it was removed from the pins lol

[stoic needle]

yeah seriously

half of the questions in here are about dashing lol

[woeful wigeon]

but shiv is a dmg ability

[tropic charm]

Ahh okay. I am highly debating coming back since it's viable. I don't even care if it's not the best

[woeful wigeon]

so it shud get 8%

[fleet whale]

yes shiv is a damage ability, shiv itself got buffed

[stoic needle]

it's the damage of the abilities, not the effects of the abilities

[fleet whale]

but not the 20% poison damage bonus from it

[stoic needle]

get thee a zoldyck my friend

sin unironically feels good to play with some gear

[woeful wigeon]

count deadly poisen also then as the % buff

[fleet whale]

zoldyck also is execute, which is very useful for progress

[stoic needle]

i'm only 206 ilvl and i have no complaints

[fleet whale]

yes DP got buffed too

[woeful wigeon]

thx for the confirmation

[spice spire]

205, 23% haste. Can confirm, it feels good to play, numbers were just vastly undertuned

[fleet whale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xc2BGgrJRyq9Y65NGVUg1U

look at that... melee is getting lower lol

in the breakdown

[stoic needle]

3 min sim 🤔

[fleet whale]

i still have it set in 3 mins from late bfa just never bothered to change

[stoic needle]

im not clowning you i'm just genuinely curious how long our sims should be

[wind canopy]

I sim 5k @5 min atm

[spice spire]

3 minutes - five minutes, it’s really where your guild is at on downing bosses

Mine is at 5 because my guild has some lower dps that’s raiding for the first time

I sim 4.65k at 5

[stoic needle]

yeah i just went to look at my guild's logs and our kills are right around 5 min

+-30s

[spice spire]

I think hungering destroyer on heroic was a 6 minute fight last night 🥸

Nvm 6:56

[fleet whale]

also you can upgrade covenant and honor pvp gear to 197 this week just fyi

if you still have low ilvl pieces of gear

[woeful wigeon]

@fleet whale check private msg plz

[fleet whale]

even at a 5 min sim, melee is a bit lower

or lower than what i used to be

[stoic needle]

i might break 4.8k today with lvl 4 zoldyck

[rigid wyvern]

the great vault shines upon me

220 weapon huzzah

[stoic needle]

if i were nightfae or kyrian i would be 4.8 i think

[spice spire]

W

[stoic needle]

damn, gratz

[spice spire]

It’s okay, we have the good transmog

[stoic needle]

it's so dumb how hard it is to get weapons this expansions

blade cape is literally bis

[rigid wyvern]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ph9L3BCg31THHu8dE1tdS9

so close

[spice spire]

That entire set is bis

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cdUV38m4bKhBWr4fzDz59w

[rigid wyvern]

are yall on nightly or weekly?

[plain spruce]

imagine playing Sin

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kn8VfJAgUaA7uGutDdpbjT

[spice spire]

Still using dark moon trinket xd and weekly

[stoic needle]

go back under your bridge, troll

pretty sure sin buffs are in the weekly version

[plain spruce]

I want sin to be good as much as anyone, im just playing

[spice spire]

You’re good, nice weapons tho

[stoic needle]

I wish venthyr had better soulbinds

[ashen sail]

For Night Bae and Zoldyck, Sepsis counts as poison damage, right?

[rigid wyvern]

nope

[plain spruce]

dont think so

[stoic needle]

negative

[ashen sail]

😦

[rigid wyvern]

it is buffed by shiv

so we got that going for us

[stoic needle]

there are pretty much zero interactions between covenant abilities and legendaries

and class skills

its really lame tbh

meanwhile: convoke

[strange python]

convoke is the most poorly designed/balanced thing in wow in a long time

[plain spruce]

it would be fine if it didnt proc full moon

[strange python]

its not even that

its 30% of druids damage on a long cd

meaning druids are more or less worthless without convoke but they are at the top of the meters with it. One things goes wrong and suddenly your worse than a sin rogue

its just bad

[proven ferry]

Is Sin at top dps after the refresh ?

[stoic needle]

No

[strange python]

lol

[proven ferry]

😂

[stoic needle]

Imagine if sin was doing UH levels of dps

I m a g i n e

[proven ferry]

I can only imagine I guess

[strange python]

why do they call it assassination if you cant kill anything

[fleet whale]

it's not top but it's good now

[proven ferry]

It’s like eventual assassination via poisons if you don’t visit doctor

Something like that

[lilac prism]

Anyone played with conduits yet? Well Placed Steel BiS?

[plain spruce]

[lilac prism]

oh word pins are updated?

[plain spruce]

same now as 3 months ago

[hot warren]

do we have any sims about assasin ?

[lilac prism]

how can that even be?

[plain spruce]

?????????? nothing has changed

[fleet whale]

raidbots is updated now for the buff

[strange python]

its literally 8% more damage

on everything

[plain spruce]

flat

[strange python]

its the laziest form of balancing ever

[proven ferry]

6% I would say

[fleet whale]

i mean maybe but it works

[proven ferry]

Because they said damaging abilities

Auto attacks and trinkets do not qualify for the buff

[strange python]

I’m so glad we still have the 50% master assassin talent - makes a whole lot of sense

[fleet whale]

the spec is fine after the buff, and we'll see what 9.1 brings

[wind canopy]

It literally says 8

[plain spruce]

Sins talents are the worst in the game so many god awful do nothing talents, then they have the balls to give sin alacrity making any chance at a bleed build impossible

[stoic needle]

8% more ability damage does not = 8% more DPS

[marble bear]

You guys whine harder than FFXIV players

[stoic needle]

could you imagine sin after a talent rework in 9.1

[marble bear]

Class is fine

[fleet whale]

the top pin on this channel

literally says sin is viable after this buff

idk what more you want

[wind canopy]

I think this is a good week to pick up outlaw

[marble bear]

Literally just go play mm hunter

If you wanna be too damage and that’s all that matters

[stoic needle]

i will never play anything other than sin

[marble bear]

Play what you like

[fleet whale]

were lucky that blizz even decided to buff sin again in this tier

[stoic needle]

yup

[fleet whale]

blizz very rarely buffs the same spec twice in one tier

[stoic needle]

i was prepared to play 5% buff sin til 9.1

[fleet whale]

and who knows what items or tier sets 9.1 will bring

that could make sin even better

[rocky ruin]

The only thing would set tiers

[stoic needle]

when sin ends up being bis halfway through the xpac from some ridiculous borrowed power

i'm gonna laugh with my 3 sin legendaries

[plain spruce]

go hybernate for 2 years, sin will be good next xpac

[stoic needle]

while yall scrubs are catching up

[safe nest]

in what slot is zoldyck best?

[fleet whale]

pants

[stoic needle]

pantaloons

[safe nest]

k ty boys

[marble bear]

I can’t even think about legendRies

[stoic needle]

the thing is we have no clue what the new systems they have could be

we could be wearing 2 legendaries, have a 2nd soulbind or like several extra potency slots in the existing trees

[plain spruce]

hopefully 0 new systems

[stoic needle]

tier sets

[plain spruce]

less systems that are going to be gone in a year

[stoic needle]

imagine thinking blizzard will do anything but borrowed power

thats all they know how to do anymore

[plain spruce]

all wasted effort that could go in to the class

[stoic needle]

its inevitable

all we can do is hope that it ends up in our favor

[fleet whale]

blizz uses borrowed power because it's their way of both giving us and taking away stuff every expasnion

so they can avoid "bloat" but at the same time hype up something "new" that we get

[stoic needle]

i think borrowed power is fundamentally bad game design philosophy but going back at this point is too much

[fleet whale]

ironically, blizz's best attempt at borrowed power

[stoic needle]

or rather

[fleet whale]

was legion, which was their first

and even that had a lot of issues

[stoic needle]

borrowed power isn't necessarily bad, but when a class is non-functional without it it's a very bad thing

[fleet whale]

sin is functional without borrowed power

[stoic needle]

LOL

uh

[fleet whale]

it just gained a lot of power from bfa systems

[stoic needle]

no it's not

[fleet whale]

what is your definition of "functional"

[rustic thunder]

how's assassination guys

if anyone is in the US

[halcyon grail]

People are barely functional playing rogue, is the fact.

[whole dew]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[whole dew]

this stats is for ST o aoe?

[fleet whale]

cause gameplay wise, other than aoe still feeling weird

there is nothing wrong with how sin plays in ST or cleave

[stoic needle]

yeah that's what i'm talking about

[halcyon grail]

'ono another button. Wut I do?'

[stoic needle]

the aoe feeling very awkward

it could easily be fixed if they made some of our aoe talents baseline like CT tbh

but thats the thing, they spend all of their resources balancing the new systems and not enough time fleshing out the baseline of the specs

[spice spire]

Both. It’s functionally the same

[whole dew]

ty c:

[fleet whale]

i don't think CT needs to neccessarily need to be baseline for sin aoe to feel right. I think giving FoK higher baseline crit or adding more poison interaction baseline could do the trick

[frail fossil]

^

[fleet whale]

like sub got this brand new shiny aoe finisher baseline, and right now it's barely worth pressing

[stoic needle]

there's several ways to go about doing it, i don't think CT being baseline is madatory

[frail fossil]

i think exsang should have some kind of aoe twist

like bopping bleeds

all of them

[stoic needle]

v

e

i

n

r

i

p

p

e

r

[marble bear]

Sub feels so bad to play

[fleet whale]

no vein ripper please

[stoic needle]

s

come on

[fleet whale]

no more vanish interaction

[frail fossil]

what is vein ripper

[fleet whale]

a torghast power

[stoic needle]

no just make exsang do the vein rippers effect

[frail fossil]

it pops ur bleed out ?

[marble bear]

Make exsang good again

That was fun

[stoic needle]

it does all of the remaining damage of your dots instantly

im telling you

just make exsang do the vein rippers effect in an aoe

[frail fossil]

idk

[fleet whale]

i mean my solutions revolve around making sin less bleed heavy but more poison heavy

i want sin to not turn into feral druids with daggers

[frail fossil]

for me u put that FOK generating cp buff

and u make the spec in aoe based in putting bleeds

and popping them off

[marble bear]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-por-que-no-los-dos-yey-gif-15089379

Bleed and poison

[frail fossil]

like that shit would be so cool

a bit like they did with affli

[stoic needle]

yea i would love a rogue version of malefic rapture

[frail fossil]

but with vanish being important

and like, vendetta being useful in aoe

would be nice

[stoic needle]

u could make exsang a single target vein ripper

[lilac prism]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[stoic needle]

and make it AOE when vendetta is up

[frail fossil]

again those are just fantasy

but i think if sin ever get better aoe it needs to be bleed

multidot management is cool

[fleet whale]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gH8fGXTzxb4NvBaP#fight=20&type=damage-done&source=2

i miss this kind of damage breakdown for sin

[bleak glacier]

do go haste/vers missives on our leggo?

[stoic needle]

yeah forreal

[frail fossil]

legion sin looked amazing tbf

like

i wish i had played legion sin

kingsbane looked

[stoic needle]

i'm so sad i missed legion

[frail fossil]

absolutely poggers

idk why they made poison bomb so boring

[fleet whale]

it was very heavy rng in legion

turn parsing into a lottery

[dim mirage]

gimme legion assassin with blindside baseline

[stoic needle]

I would really enjoy seeing envenom apply some kind of infinitely stacking DOT for single target

the more envenoms you do, the more damage the DoT does

so you ramp up to solid damage at the end with zoldyck

the duration wouldn't be infinite so you have to keep envenoming that target but each application increases the dmg and refreshes the duration

[frail fossil]

monka

[rigid wyvern]

Refreshing might be a bit much

[frail fossil]

Whispyr had some pog ideas

but like, i think sin need to be that cool multi dotting class

[stoic needle]

i mean what's wrong with a bit much

[rigid wyvern]

It would be cool if it was a reward based on good timing so you fit as many envenoms in the window as possible

[stoic needle]

we have wild spirits and convoke

[topaz saffron]

A little more class flavour would be beautiful, septicemia with all that blood and poisons about

[stoic needle]

let rogue have something lowkey OP for a change lol

[spice spire]

Haste and crit or vers, user preference

[rigid wyvern]

The other concern with infinite stacking

[frail fossil]

envenom increase ur next envenom dmg or w/e for like 6sec

[rigid wyvern]

is that it would have to be balanced around full fight

so what happens on somehing like shriekwing where you lose all your stacks every phase

[frail fossil]

i think sin having execute is good

in term of class fantasy

like vendetta could be a form of execute

[spice spire]

Blindside with dispatch not ambush 😠

Old dispatch*

[stoic needle]

that's a fair point, i guess it depends on how long the duration of the dot is

it would probably be more useable if it wasn't infinite and ramped up several times over a fight

[quaint lark]

wtb shrouded suffocation conduit

[frail fossil]

please

sin conduits are so ass

it is unreal

[topaz saffron]

I honestly want posion bomb baseline

[frail fossil]

like it really feels like they took

[stoic needle]

wtf is maim mangle

[icy crater]

execute and util is so important on mythic prog

[frail fossil]

3sec into sin

and called it a day

like it's actually insane

[spice spire]

SS talent or legendary would also be neat imo

[frail fossil]

how every of sin issues were obvious since alpha

[stoic needle]

I don't like the idea of it being a legendary

i dont like the idea of 'mandatory' legendaries

you can get away with the other legendaries besides zoldyck now even if it isnt quite optimal

[spice spire]

If we are able to have multiple legendaries I see it being fine

[stoic needle]

but then it feels like we have -1 legendary slot while every other class gets to use 2 for whatever they want, cuz we desperately need SS to shore up our class' weaknesses

having it as a conduit would be better IMO

the way that ion was talking about tier sets in the interview gives me a sneaky suspicion that we might get conduit sets instead of tier gear sets

maybe with some extra slots

[amber quail]

🤔 and does him explain how to balance/menage this “new set” while them cutted away a potency slot to better balance all classes/spec?
BTW a set system for conduit is am amazing idea IMHO...or something like crucible in Legion XD

[icy crater]

Power creep is already insane, idk how multiple legendaries is going to work

[stoic needle]

i feel like if they did it they would give you a separate tree just for the sets

i hope they would anyway

[stoic needle]

what do you mean by power creep being insane?

maybe it's different for the other classes, but when I looked at how all of the rogue legendaries are close together it made me think they did that anticipating that we'd be able to use multiple eventually

but that's just my speculation

[tame slate]

I could see it going either way. I'm just concerned about how they're gonna handle moving legendaries into the next tier.

[main forge]

Hopefully they designed new legendaries

or they just let use multiple ones. Although the unlocking of higher ranks has go to change especially for the mail and leather people

[tame slate]

That's what I was getting at. Mail and Leather already got shafted and having to make people repeat the process is not a good idea imo

[lusty raven]

!stats

[main forge]

The simple fix is to up the drop rate or decrease the mats...

the other trick would be to add a few general use legendaries... I had a crazy idea... one for all classes.... "you get to pick an extra talent" legendary... maybe only on one row or any row.

[mossy flicker]

Hi guys, I was wondering, I'm going to main rogue again, and my friends and I will push some keys. I always loved playing sin in keys, is it that bad ?

Or overall it's still fine/decent ?

[main forge]

Outlaw is king sadly.

Sin isn't doing so hot but we did get a buff, so we will see...

[stoic needle]

i would love an extra talent legendary