assassination

[kind cliff]

yea me too, but i mained ass for like 4 expansions

[hollow escarp]

as Mystler said, it's hard to reroll back now that we are invested with legendaries and such

[strange python]

assa still is the only real rogue specc^^ i will play it after the buff

[hollow escarp]

I'm gonna try to play it on shriekwing, hungering, sludge but I wanna craft my rank 4 on outlaw first and then craft Zoldyck

but I'm enjoying outlaw right now

[sinful sentinel]

I get my rank 4 outlaw this week so rank 1 maybe 2 zoldyck Tuesday before raid for sure

[hollow escarp]

I also crafted finality rank 2 first

[tight sparrow]

I think whats going to make it still not good enough is that the dmg is only on spells

[hollow escarp]

but I want to have rank 4 on 1 spec asap

[tight sparrow]

so your Auto attack dont get buffed, which if you look at your dmg after a raid fight is going to be your biggest damage source

[strange python]

it would be made weapons so important

i mean they are still important, but even more if they buff our autohits also by 8%^^

[hollow escarp]

isn't melee damage the same on both sub and assa if you use the same weapons?

[strange python]

sub has armorignore

[hollow escarp]

with the same haste

ahh

[sinful sentinel]

Did they gut poison bomb? Haven't played sin really since nighthold

[hollow escarp]

it's not as good as it was in Legion

[strange python]

pb isnt not even close to legions pb^^

[tight sparrow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6LWZmfHhTDnrJ3Kt#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=4

this is one of the top logs for assa on shirek

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but it's still the single target choice

[tight sparrow]

you see melee is top dmg and thats not getting the 8 % buff

kinda sad

[hollow escarp]

but that's a result of abilities undertuned

[strange python]

70 is a top log?

[hollow escarp]

it's not normal to have melee top damage

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WYr62cajngyP9zbJ#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=13

this is a top log

2nd one is melee top damage though

[strange python]

it hurts

[tight sparrow]

Your guy was rank 1 mine was rank 12

your guy had a pretty short fight thats why i kept looking

[rigid wyvern]

Ya there's like 50 parses on mythic

[hollow escarp]

when you have 20 assa rogues in mythic, you look at 1st parse

[rigid wyvern]

12th isn't a top log in that case lol

[hollow escarp]

the 2nd rogue is playing on my realm

[tight sparrow]

well true. But the point remains the same i think

[hollow escarp]

I don't think melee should be top damage though

[tight sparrow]

Yes me neither

but i am just trying to say that 8 % is not enough if melee is not affected by it

[rigid wyvern]

Why isn't melee affected?

[hollow escarp]

but it will make Melee not top damage

[strange python]

we still get what we get, and if 2 rogue specc still decent, there is no need to buff a third

[hollow escarp]

All damage abilities increased by 8%.

[tight sparrow]

that makes no sense at all

[hollow escarp]

it does for Blizz

there is no emergency to make assa good

if the other 2 are decent

[tight sparrow]

why throw a spec away just cause the other 2 are decent XD

[hollow escarp]

well sub was like this the entire BfA

after Uldir nerf tbf

[tight sparrow]

thats true, but that also was bad

should not have happend

[hollow escarp]

well

[strange python]

because the game still function. u can play assa no doubt, but not on the top

[hollow escarp]

what can we do more?

😄

[strange python]

if ur guild is okay with an assa rogue, no worries

[tight sparrow]

i am not okay with an assa rouge hahaha

who wants to play a spec that is a dead stone to your raid that needs to be carried

your raid is probably better without you if you play assa rouge right now

[strange python]

if only ur dmg is missing, maybe u playing in a wrong guild^^

[rigid wyvern]

Everyone's guild is different

[hidden bloom]

are you excited about this 8% buff or do you think it won't change much?

[rigid wyvern]

Im excited for it, I've been playing assa all expac so it's all gravy

[sinful sentinel]

I'm going to go into heroic as Sin but mythic prog I'll go right back to outlaw

[tight sparrow]

thats not the point. The point is i know my dmg is shit and i need my guild to carry me

and thats not fun for me

[strange python]

thats a point of perspective. if ur not having fun playing a "wrong" specc then its okay for me, playing a niche specc.

a guild shoudnt be only focused on dmg

[tight sparrow]

thats true i think it should look at what helps them clear the raid

[rigid wyvern]

It all depends on your goal really

[hollow escarp]

if you are in an established guild it's probably fine, but if you wanna climb the world rank ladder, playing the optimal damage spec is the play in the short term

[tardy steppe]

how do you get well placed steel conduit?

[strange python]

even in the top 500 u could play assa

[rigid wyvern]

Raid/world quests

[hollow escarp]

I can also imagine that getting Keystone Master with assa can be an interesting personal challenge

[strange python]

because renown

[rigid wyvern]

Like I doubt someone playing assa will stop your guild from getting aotc for instance

[hollow escarp]

even CE

I've stalked the profiles of the current assa players in Mythic and many of them are main raiders

in CE guilds

[strange python]

yes this is what wow is today. in bc i played my rogue without using rupture. because i didnt know i had this spell, still cleared bt

[rigid wyvern]

Lmao. Im also weird in that I enjoy the challenge of extracting performance out of the underperforming specs

I like that underdog experience lol

[hollow escarp]

same

well, assa before this buff was so low that I didn't even wanna play it

[strange python]

i did this in the beginning of legion, where assa also was an underdog

was quite fun

[hollow escarp]

I got 3.1k rio in Legion with assa

[rigid wyvern]

I picked sin before I knew the tuning but I'm sticking with it cause I enjoy it

[hollow escarp]

I also started playing in 7.3.2

[strange python]

uhhh u missed one of the best expacs^^

[hollow escarp]

neah, I got there when it was good

heard Legion was a bit meh in the beginning

[strange python]

i liked the progress on the weapons

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I remember watching guides about how to plan your weapon and I got like almost full weapon

or the poison vial talent, never saw that in game

[strange python]

it was nice, because farming ap had a goal^^

[hollow escarp]

I got my bis legendary on christmas

9th one ofc

[tardy steppe]

im venthyr, what will my opener look like for ST? right now its vendetta > garrote > ambush > Flag > rupture > mutilate to 5 cp then Slice but i feel like its not the correct opener

[rigid wyvern]

Why are you popping vendetta immediately?

I don't use mine until I have rupture / snd up

[tardy steppe]

with the ambush and mutilates, i have MA so thought 30% more dmg with crit is worth it

and to use it as many times in a raid fight but im new to sin rogue for SL so

im probably wrong

[rigid wyvern]

I am aswell, my understanding is that you get your dots / snd up, then vendetta & vanish for MA then do as many envenoms and mut as possible

Not sure how venthyr ability fits in cause I'm night fae

[tardy steppe]

i use subterfuge so would it be vanish then use ambush for cp?

[rigid wyvern]

You'd probably vanish for garrote in that case

[stoic needle]

Vendetta after you have slice and rupture up. Gar/mut > mut > flag> SND > mut to 5 > rupture > vendetta > shiv > mut/envenom spam

[tardy steppe]

thanks, so no ambush?

[stoic needle]

No ambush unless you get broadside

[hollow escarp]

you mean blindside

[stoic needle]

Ambush does more damage than mut, but mut gives more combo points

Yes, blindside lol

[tardy steppe]

ah cool

thanks

[tardy steppe]

but then still what is the most effective to get slice and rupture up when you first start fight? i suppose from stealth - garrote > mutilate > rupture > mutilate to 5 cp > S&D?

[stoic needle]

No, it's gar mut snd

Then mut to 5 and rupture

[tardy steppe]

so snd is higher prio then rupture

[stoic needle]

Yes, you need the energy regen

[tardy steppe]

wow didnt veen see it gave energy regen on sin 😮

[wispy summit]

Yeah SnD beats Rup out in raw dmg, so always go for SnD first

[mint peak]

https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/ openers are here

[tardy steppe]

ty

[stoic needle]

If you rup first you'll find yourself energy starved trying to get up SnD

[wispy summit]

So if rup and snd are falling off the same time and you have to pick, go SnD always

[tardy steppe]

Yeah i see

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[tardy steppe]

i wanna get high haste on all pieces i suppose and the lesser stat versa?

[wispy summit]

If running Scoundrel crit > vers

[stoic needle]

Tbh I say crit > vers anyway

But that's definitely feelcraft

[tardy steppe]

yeah but i wanna pvp a bit too

[wispy summit]

Tbf yes imo too

[rigid wyvern]

Is it not worth to pool before vendetta? I try to have some energy before my vanish + first envenom to get as much off MA as I can

[stoic needle]

Vers promotes a lot of AA damage which I don't enjoy

[tardy steppe]

true but i have MA so crit becomes a little bit less valuable for situatuons in pvp in m+

[stoic needle]

Also crit helps you with your cp generation in aoe which is super important

[strange python]

but crit is for free

[rigid wyvern]

I have so much vers cause I have a bunch of pvp gear lol

[tardy steppe]

same i have 22%

ilvl 192

[stoic needle]

I don't think it's true that having MA devalues crit

Because that's at max 8 seconds every 2 minutes of 100% crit

For the other 122 seconds crit is still valuable

[tardy steppe]

for raiding yes

but for m+ i can restealth every pack

[fleet whale]

if anything you want a little more crit with MA

oh you're talking about the leggo

[tardy steppe]

yeah

[fleet whale]

idk, even then it doesn't really devalue it that much

[stoic needle]

You should gear for crit for when you craft zoldyck

[tardy steppe]

so you basicly want all your pieces high haste lower crit

[stoic needle]

Call me crazy but I don't think we should completely ignore mastery either

[rigid wyvern]

Your crazy

[stoic needle]

But for now until we can reach higher crit levels I think prioritizing crit is better

[tardy steppe]

i have some high ilvl pieces with versa crit from pvp so i probably wont replace them soon

[rigid wyvern]

/s

[tardy steppe]

versa mastery*

i mean

[fleet whale]

you don't ignore any stat

when you get down to it

[stoic needle]

I'm venthyr currently with about 18% haste and my sims are telling me to start gemming for crit

I have about 22% crit

[tardy steppe]

these are my stats, they look like the oposite you need lol

[loud niche]

Whispry said never ambush from stealth

but the site says to

what

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’ve talked to weak about it

[rigid wyvern]

Why is ambush so bad?

I get more applications cause envenom hits twice but the numbers don't seem to add up

[balmy condor]

Too much energy for not enough cp/damage

[loud niche]

so, no ambush from stealth then?

[balmy condor]

No ambush from stealth

[loud niche]

okii ty ily

[heady island]

I stopped doing ambush from stealth the other day after Whispyr's preaching

and I noticed difference instantly.

big ty

[rigid wyvern]

I guess I'm not thinking that mut can also be 4cp on double crit

Even though I spam to hard to react half the time lol

[heady island]

It really smoothed out my opening in dungeons when I play with Master Assassin Leggo

[balmy condor]

#tc-research message

You can look at that

The sims have probably expired

But if you want to, you can do it in reverse

And see

[strange python]

with an aurabuff, are stats also have a higher value?

[balmy condor]

Yes, but they don’t change the priority

[strange python]

so the point is we get more form our gear

[balmy condor]

We get more dps from gear technically yes

Stat values like “mastery = 1.05” means that 1 point of mastery is 1.05 dps

Since mastery affects bleeds/poisons

And those are buffed by 8%

That means that each point of mastery is now giving 8% more dps

Thus, the value of the stat goes up

Since it’s an aura buff though, everything except for autos/trinkets/etc are getting buffed

And 8% doesn’t swing much

So you’ll see mastery go up, crit go up slightly less, vers go up slightly less, and haste go up slightly less

However without that lesson on stats

You probably would not have noticed anything

[loud niche]

how do we handle sepsis procs as sin with MA talent?

[balmy condor]

We’re talking movements of like 0.03-0.06 in your weight

[balmy condor]

You ignore the fact that you can cast ambush

But also what does that have to do with MA

[loud niche]

didnt know if subterfuge made a difference with the sepsis proc

like if it gave the 80%

so i said MA talented cuz i didnt want the subter answer

[balmy condor]

Sepsis doesn’t give the effect of stealth

It gives the ability to cast a stealth ability

[loud niche]

ah, so no modifiers to abilities from things like subterfuge

[balmy condor]

MA, both talent and legendary, nightstalker, subterfuge, therefore have no effect

[strange python]

@balmy condor it seems that we will get the same way assa went on legion. with higher gear we get better and better.

also lets wait if the tier boni coming back

[balmy condor]

Just like literally every other class in the game, yes

[stoic needle]

I subtracted my auto attacks trinkets and potion buffs and added 8% and it turned out to be 270dps bump on 4.5k single target dps

In a patchwerk sim

[strange python]

@balmy condor sure thats true, but assa was the main specc in legion at the end^^ and we also start from the bottom 😛

[balmy condor]

Could’ve just forced an aura buff into your sim osh :P

I know you of all people are capable

[balmy condor]

That’s actually bait as fuck

[strange python]

sorry

[balmy condor]

This weird concept that sin scales better than everything with stats

Idk who started it

But now it’s like accepted fact in the community

And I don’t fucking get it

[strange python]

what was the aura buff in legion at the end? 40%? maybe thats why

[balmy condor]

That’s not what that does

[strange python]

a shimmer of hope?^^

[balmy condor]

Sin doesn’t scale crazy with gear like you think

That’s just not how specs work

And not how stats work

[fossil slate]

Inb4 late xpac sin argument 😨

[balmy condor]

Not inb4

It’s just constantly

[fossil slate]

True 😅

[balmy condor]

People seem to forget that at the start of legion, sin was the best spec

[fossil slate]

I always weep slightly for you when it drops up Whispyr

[balmy condor]

And then got worse

And then got better

[ornate lake]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

If it scales with stats

Then why did it get worse

At the start of bfa, sin was cracked out of its mind

But “sin bad early expac”

Is still a thing for some reason

[rigid wyvern]

obvious stats have diminishing returns, then stop having diminishing returns past a certain point /s

[balmy condor]

This is the first expac since WoD, where sin wasn’t good at the start of the expansion

The worst part is

I didn’t hear “sin scales” that often in wod

It started taking off in legion

[stuck tartan]

U didnt hear sins in general

[balmy condor]

The expansion where sin literally DIDNT scale

[fleet whale]

Sin had some very good tier sets in Legion, minus ToS

and guess what... ToS was the worst tier for sin in legion

[stoic needle]

Wait you can?

Lol I had no idea that was an option

[balmy condor]

Theres commands for everything my friend

[stuck tartan]

and I still did ToS as sin cause fuck it

[fleet whale]

i did too, cause sin overall was still fine in ToS

[somber fractal]

you could literally buff sin by 20% and it still wouldnt be brought. straight "aura" buffs is the clearest evidence that blizzard doesnt know how to balance

[fleet whale]

Legion as a whole was fairly balanced in raiding

and yes, aura buffs are just bandaids

sin still has fundamental issues

[stuck tartan]

I think the last time I didnt want to play as sin on raid was on draenor

on hellfire

[fleet whale]

i loved how sin played in WoD

especially in hfc lol

[strange python]

sin was perfect in wod

[stuck tartan]

i played sub that tier

[balmy condor]

That’s just actually not true

[stoic needle]

i agree that sin has some fundamental issues but if it got buffed by 20% it absolutely would be brought lol

[strange python]

i would actually sell my child for the wod [Venomous Wounds]

[fleet whale]

yeah a 20% buff would prolly make it over the top

[delicate bone]

I think saying that blizzard doesn’t know how to balance is a generally wrong statement, I really don’t think as many people would actually play this game if it was perfectly balanced

[somber fractal]

yes sin was "perfect" in wod https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/8#dataset=95

[fleet whale]

you're just looking at damage

i liked sin's playstyle in wod

[stuck tartan]

i liked it too

i just saw that without playing sub since lich king

i still did more damage lmao

[fleet whale]

sub was really good in hfc

[stuck tartan]

it was stupid tbh

[somber fractal]

it is true. youre literally delusional of you think it would be taken over a bunch of dks with more damage still and a giant raid CD

[stuck tartan]

didnt know what the fuck to do

[balmy condor]

Aura buffs also aren’t necessarily band-aid fixes

[stuck tartan]

and still top 1

[velvet ridge]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

Guess I’m fucking delusional then

[fleet whale]

a 20% aura buff for sin

would def make it close to top tier in raiding

[delicate bone]

That much raid dmg is worth more than a vast majority of raid buffs lol

[winter gale]

😂😂😂

[balmy condor]

Sub and outlaw were both played in a top 5 guild this tier

20% to sin

Would crush both of those specs

Idk what kind of fantasy land you live in

Where that means sin wouldn’t be played

But it’s time to come back to reality

[stuck tartan]

wasnt outlaw on legion

fucked up

did big numbers

and people played it still?

[balmy condor]

People played sub in sludge and sire and shit too

[fleet whale]

outlaw was bad in ToS but middle of the back for every other raid

in legion

[balmy condor]

Outlaw was okay in legion

[somber fractal]

yeah dude limit and echo were just stacking rogues

[balmy condor]

It’s just always been overshadowed

[fleet whale]

why do people always bring up limit and echo

as if their comps are the only comps you can run lol

[balmy condor]

Okay are you actually trolling at this point or do you not have reading comprehension

I said top 5

And you go “YEAH OKAY BUT TOP TWO”

[rigid wyvern]

Look the best players did it, it must be perfect and 10000% optimal, not doing their strats is trolling and you wont clear normal /s

[fleet whale]

rogues do lack raid utility that is a fact

[balmy condor]

Stop baiting.

[fleet whale]

but a 20% aura buff to sin would make it meta lol

[stoic needle]

Let's go

I wanna be a massive pumper dps spec

[balmy condor]

It’s actually crazy

[somber fractal]

might i suggest boomkin then

[stoic needle]

Warcraftlogs was literally a mistake

[balmy condor]

People yesterday go “hm, it’s still 6% under sub, can’t play sin rip”

[stoic needle]

People don't see something in the top 100 logs and think therefore it cannot possibly be viable

[balmy condor]

Bruh

[somber fractal]

warcraftlogs isnt a problem. if youre in raid doing half the damage of a boomy then youll be say anyway

[stoic needle]

Warcraftlogs absolutely is a problem lmao

[fleet whale]

ok Syre so what changes do you think sin should get

[somber fractal]

access to information isnt a bad thing

[stoic needle]

People cheese damage in logs, and yet nobody seems to realize this and just takes them as object fact and the optimal strategy for everything when they aren't

[balmy condor]

....we don’t do half the damage of boomies now?

[somber fractal]

well first they need to change how fan of knives works. it got hit harder than any other spec in the game by the target cap. Could have it work like SS or have it generate a combo point for each target hit that has a bleed on it. anything really

[magic vine]

target cap doesn't come into play in the raid?

[fleet whale]

target cap is not the reason fok sucks now

[balmy condor]

That also fixes nothing in raids

[magic vine]

imio having some sort of aoe version of vein ripper would be pretty neat

[rigid wyvern]

yes pls

[somber fractal]

yeah i said "first" theres a lot of things sin needs. its like a body in the er with 20 broken bones after a car crash

[stoic needle]

The people want vein rippers

[rigid wyvern]

I want burst damage for hakkar in DoS lol

[stoic needle]

Give us vein rippers

[stuck tartan]

Tbh, I dont want vein rippers outside of torghast

[balmy condor]

More vanish dependency?

[magic vine]

or even just a finisher that spreads dots or something

[balmy condor]

[stuck tartan]

basically my feelings

[stoic needle]

I don't see how it would change things, we already use vanish as an offensive cd

[stuck tartan]

ty

[balmy condor]

MORE

[stoic needle]

It would just make it more effective

[balmy condor]

MOOOOORE

[stuck tartan]

but u now u need two things prepared to use it offensively

[rigid wyvern]

I mean the effect on not vanish

make it a button idk

[balmy condor]

MAKE VANISH STRONGER THAN VENDETTA

YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS

[stuck tartan]

VANISH NOW APPLIES VENDETTA

AND U DONT HAVE VENDETTA

LETS GOOOO

[stoic needle]

When would you not have dots up before vanishing

[stuck tartan]

subterfuge to reapply garrote

well, i mean, you're gonna do that anyway

but i feel like

[stoic needle]

Idk it just makes it better

[stuck tartan]

"i put dots on u so I delete them so I can put dots on u" its kinda...idk

[stoic needle]

You get double the garotte damage

You drop subt garottes, then vanish to deal their damage and reapply them

Sounds fantastic to me

[balmy condor]

I don’t mind vanishing for damage

[magic vine]

leaning into dots keeps sin distinct, but giving tools that interact with dots makes it more interesting

[stoic needle]

^^^^^

[balmy condor]

But historically speaking, vanish Is used for things other than damage, and you can cheese things with it

[magic vine]

make vendetta tick dots faster (but without losing duration)

[balmy condor]

Sub can hold vanish, outlaw has no cooldown on vanish

Sin? Can’t do damage without vanish sorry

[stoic needle]

Would it be impossible to get us to a state where we can do damage without vanish but still have vein rippers for extra burst

[stuck tartan]

extra ambush rng to give rtb buff

[rigid wyvern]

what if we had vein rippers

[stuck tartan]

pog

[balmy condor]

I don’t get why people are so fond of crippling niche utility, specifically for a spec that already has that niche utility crippled in comparison to its counterparts

[rigid wyvern]

but it was just not on vanish

[balmy condor]

Like

[magic vine]

i mean, you don't need to tie it to vanish

just make a new ability

[balmy condor]

Sin already sucks at that part

[stoic needle]

Exsanguinate becomes vein rippers

[stuck tartan]

exsang but better

[balmy condor]

And you’re just kicking it while it’s on the ground

[stoic needle]

[stuck tartan]

we tought the same, good good

[magic vine]

also untie shiv from the dmg boost, that shits dumb

[stoic needle]

I'm absolutely more interested in the concept of vein rippers than it being tied to vanish

To be clear

[balmy condor]

Good

[stuck tartan]

Then good

[magic vine]

yea no one is talking about vein rippers because its hooked to vanish

[balmy condor]

Because I’m tired of tying things to vanish

[stoic needle]

But with blizzard I feel like the easiest way is the most feasible way of getting it actually implemented in the game

[magic vine]

its the interaction with the dots, and having a strong burst cooldown

[stoic needle]

Maybe like

Exsang finishes the duration of your dots on your target, but during vendetta it becomes aoe

[stuck tartan]

or just make exsang aoe

[stoic needle]

I mean sure

[stuck tartan]

i mean, exsang vein rippers

[stoic needle]

It wouldn't be that crazy in the grand scheme of things

[balmy stump]

is the drop off from zoldyck to mark of master assassin very big? i want to go back to sin but want to pvp also

[stuck tartan]

just like it works on torghast, but just make it without the vanish

[balmy condor]

Kinda, yeh

[stoic needle]

I think you'd still want to use MA for pvp as sin

[balmy stump]

i mean i want to craft a leggo for doing pve as sin

but also want the MA for pvp

but if im not viable with MA in raid i wouldnt want it

[stoic needle]

You should have enough ash for both

But at the current moment yeah I'd say you really want zoldyck for sin pve

[balmy stump]

i already crafted level 3 finalityt

[stoic needle]

You need every bit of dmg you can get

[balmy stump]

why did they have to ruin sin

[stoic needle]

I think they should make envenom count as a poison and deal 30% extra dmg with zoldyck

TBh

[stuck tartan]

it....does?

[stoic needle]

No it doesn't

[stuck tartan]

or am i crazy

[velvet ridge]

i hate sepsis intreaction with blindside

[stoic needle]

It feels like it should because you're literally stabbing them with poison

But it doesn't

Because reasons

[stuck tartan]

just dont use ambush with sepsis tbh

[balmy condor]

Envenom is not affected by zoldyck

It’s a nature damage attack, not a poison

[stuck tartan]

then I dont know what the fuck i read somewhere lmao

[balmy condor]

I can double check

But I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work

[stoic needle]

If warriors can get away with spamming condemn all day

Give us 30% extra envenom dmg pls kthxbye

[light bronze]

is there new sims with the 8% buff?

[loud niche]

whispyr, do you think another 5% buff on top of this 8% would bee too much?

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk, can’t find anything quick that shows it

[stuck tartan]

Ok ok

[balmy condor]

Not yet, but soon ™️

[stuck tartan]

Then idk, maybe on a dream of mine envenom was affected by zoldyck

lul

[loud niche]

is sepsis considered a poison?

or just a nature dot

[balmy condor]

Idk if “too strong” is the term, but I think it would start a shift from other specs for sure

Sepsis is a nature dot

Nice one

[loud niche]

welp, blizz is mentally slower than a tutle

fixed it

curse these bots not allowing me to be toxic to the people that made a "nature dot" which reads 'infects the target's blood'

that's literally a poison blizzard please

[stuck tartan]

playing outlaw also infects my blood and outlaw isnt a poison

oksorry

[balmy condor]

I mean, you can think of it as a poison, just without all the things that affect poisons affecting it

[stuck tartan]

aka ur mastery

[loud niche]

it is a poison, blizzard just hates sin

[balmy condor]

Well it was mostly a preventative thing to stop any single covenant from being a clear winner for a spec

[stuck tartan]

sins would go night fae always if that were the case

cause mastery duh

[balmy condor]

Mastery poggers

Our worst stat

Let’s goooooo

[stuck tartan]

our worst stat lets goooo

and still niya is better even tho she gives mastery feelsweirdman

[balmy condor]

Unlucky

[crisp sluice]

@balmy condor any thoughts on swapping back to sin over sub with these buffs

[balmy condor]

Pins

[crisp sluice]

Ty

[onyx hemlock]

Okay so i know haste is the gucci stat and i want to play sin more after buff, but unfortunately i have a lovely sub set totalling in 0% haste :)
What would be a good QoL haste% to begin?

[balmy condor]

I think 10%-ish haste is more than fine

[onyx hemlock]

Nice, thx

[balmy condor]

It’s still gonna be slow though

Because that’s the design of the spec

[onyx hemlock]

Still proud of my 0% haste exodia

But alas, sin is cool

[stuck tartan]

im trying to get 0 mastery exodia but this game hates me

[loud niche]

only 10%?

[onyx hemlock]

Yo gl

[stuck tartan]

10% is decent

[onyx hemlock]

I believe in you

[stuck tartan]

to start with

[loud niche]

the spec feels starved at 15%

[stuck tartan]

Thanks :')

[ancient rain]

guys, did they change the [stealth] conditional to count Subterfuge as stealth?

[onyx hemlock]

0% stat gang

[loud niche]

wish i had 0 mastery, but alas my 226 helm with socket is so good

[stuck tartan]

mastery helm with socket, its like looking at myself

[balmy condor]

I believe it’s not a stance at all, but might be stance 2 or 3

[rigid wyvern]

i got crit/haste shoulders with a socket from ulduar

[balmy condor]

Afaik, sepsis is just a buff

[rigid wyvern]

i love them

[stuck tartan]

i got haste/versa shoulders on ulduar

and even haste/versa pants (but zoldyck lul)

[strange python]

So uhh

that additional 8%?

How yall looking

[loud niche]

not hot

but not frozen

[strange python]

I read the pins, I was just curious on how the people who play it felt

[main forge]

Still bring the same lack of utility of other classes

[hollow escarp]

it's live only on regional reset

[main forge]

Well it will be nice to be able to maybe go back to it... If I want... but depends how it settles out compared to sub/outlaw too. Seeing as outlaw is still looking to be on top of damage wise.

For all the utility that rogues bring, we should be on top of damage imo. "Why bring a rogue" still stands as a very true statement

[stuck tartan]

Because daggers look rad

[winter laurel]

any one shot macro for asssasination rogue please

[rigid wyvern]

ya

#showtooltip Vendetta
/cry

[balmy condor]

Would ask #pvp for that if anything, but you’ll be disappointed

[rigid wyvern]

I would assume the pvp channel would just tell you to play sub, we can atleast give sin advice

[winter laurel]

oh im asking in a wrong place sorry

but after few days assainatin getting buffed

[stoic needle]

One shot macros don't really work for sin

The setup takes too long

[winter laurel]

i see

[rigid wyvern]

my strat with sin in 3s is just to multidot

and then pop everything when someone hits 50%

[stoic needle]

Yeah pretty much

[fading wigeon]

Yeah sin isn't about the burst in PvP. It's u
Sustained damage

[rigid wyvern]

try to burst them in smoke with zoldycks

we have decent execute burst

[stoic needle]

I kinda wanna make doomblade for the burst for pvp

But you can get some fat envenoms still with nightstalker

Add skulkers or dreadfire on top

You can get someone from 50% if their defensives are down

[snow arch]

Pshero played against a rogue with doomblade. That rogue wrecked him on damage.

Every match

[stoic needle]

it makes envenom even fatter lol

[hollow escarp]

5% for every bleed

wonder if the kidney bleed counts

from the talent

forgot the name

[stoic needle]

probably does

[hollow escarp]

and crimson tempest

[stoic needle]

internal bleeding

lol

[rigid wyvern]

cease

[stuck tartan]

cease

[snow arch]

Idk if that means much. Would be nice if doomblade was good single target. And serrated bone spur counted.

[stoic needle]

god dont even get me started

[rigid wyvern]

anyone think ct is worth it in rbg teamfitghts 🤔

[hollow escarp]

doomblade works well with System Shock

in RBG might be worth as you don't really CC the same as you do in arena

[rigid wyvern]

do yall wound or deadly in arenas?

[hollow escarp]

wound

[stuck tartan]

wound

[rigid wyvern]

Thats what i figured wanted to make sure lol

[hollow escarp]

assa loses the most value for playing wound though

sub and outlaw are fine

[rigid wyvern]

we do atleast get better wound for it

[hollow escarp]

true

[rigid wyvern]

24% with master poisoner is nice

if shiv gave 50% like sharpen edge itd be dumb

[hollow escarp]

I kinda like the sin pvp meta

a lot of build up but good returns

as long as you don't get 1 shot by a pala judgement, it's fun

[rigid wyvern]

ive been digging it recently

[livid temple]

So just to confirm even thought the buff sin is getting is an 8% ability damage buff, it's only going to actually work out to about a 6% damage increase?

[fluid dust]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

yes

[teal stratus]

so I noticed recently that if you Echoing Reprimand from stealth as sin you get Find Weakness debuff on the target? Idk if this has been documented but does it work/worth using?

[livid temple]

So right now if my Sin sims for 4.6k it will sim for about 4.8-4.9k after the buff?

[balmy condor]

known bug, yes

[bright stump]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

roughly, yes

[teal stratus]

@balmy condor does the debuff actually allow us to ignore 30% armor? or is it just a visual debuff error?

[balmy condor]

it allows armor bypass

only really useful for autos/mutilate

its bigger for outlaw

[teal stratus]

kk ty

[versed mica]

most of our damage bypasses armor anyway lmao

[arctic cove]

cant believe sin is gonna be viable now that i finally got 2 decent swords for outlaw

fml

[teal stratus]

so use echoing after vanish or is not worth trying to use it for find weakness?

[balmy condor]

you don't change your rotation around it

[teal stratus]

k ty

[pseudo hamlet]

But it's though? Compared to Sub?

[arctic cove]

what do yo8u mean

[dense cedar]

My sword and dagger combo doesn't do much dmg as sin, unfortunately

[vital karma]

Hmm so apparently on Tuesday assa is getting another 8% damage buff

What are everyone’s thoughts on that

[balmy condor]

my thoughts are in the pins

[dense cedar]

my thoughts

are

[frail fossil]

no thoughts, head empty

[dense cedar]

heehoo bleedy bleed

[arctic cove]

if I change spec to sin before i open my vault, do i get a chance on a dagger instd of sword?

[wet heron]

yup

[stoic needle]

no thoughts, only garotte

[tight sparrow]

Not going to be enough. Other spec will still be better

[errant hull]

i just wish assa had better aoe :(

[balmy condor]

its better than sub at least

[errant hull]

yea sub aoe feels like shit

[storm perch]

What stats priority should sin aim for in mythic+?

[balmy condor]

haste crit vers

[pseudo hamlet]

I mean the difference between Assa in Sub in each content.

[storm perch]

Same as in raid?

[balmy condor]

pretty much

[storm perch]

Thx Whisp

[grim canopy]

8% not to auto attack tho

[balmy condor]

correct

[grim canopy]

damn

[frail fossil]

i would've wished for a buff to envenoù

so it's like, actually ahead of melee

with a good head ahead

[stoic needle]

#MakeEnvenomAPoison2021

[stuck tartan]

#MakeEnvenomAPoison2021

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna put it on a tshirt and mail it to blizzard HQ

If UHDKs get a spammable 156% ap execute I think we could stand to have our 80% ap envenom work with zoldyck lol

envenom could scale with our mastery then too

or is that sub's niche?

[balmy condor]

you mean, like it does now?

[stuck tartan]

I think that's the reason I thought Zoldyck worked with envenom

[fallen crypt]

So what covenent and legendary are people going with the new sin buff?

[balmy condor]

the same as we always have

kyrian/fae/venthyr, and zoldyck

[fallen crypt]

Im so bored with Kyrian and will probably main M+, what should i pick, im not +20 runner but still ^^

[stoic needle]

i dont see envenom on this list

is wowhead lying to me?

[stuck tartan]

"slaughter poison"

even dreadblades is on that list ok wtf

[stoic needle]

i mean i can test it

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=32645/envenom#modified-by

has it as well

[stoic needle]

ok so it's just that page that's not listing everything

[balmy condor]

Most likely

[plain jewel]

So I've seen a few people recommend zoldyc legendary, however its seems dashing scoundrel pulls slightly ahead. Any reason not to use dashing scoundrel?

[stuck tartan]

Dashing is slightly better only on ST

[plain jewel]

Ah I see. I've always like zoldyck so ima stuck with that then

[fleet whale]

yeah just stick with zoldyck

Dashing is borderline bait

[dense cedar]

using the execute leggo makes u a weeb

[stuck tartan]

what if u're one already

[dense cedar]

electric chair

[stuck tartan]

wanna go together then

[fleet whale]

i've never seen an episode of Hunter X Hunter and barely watch anime to start with

[dense cedar]

all that matters is if you use the leggo or not

[stuck tartan]

I've seen like 3 episodes of hunter x hunter im sorry I just know its a reference but nothing more lmao

[dense cedar]

[fleet whale]

My most watched anime is Yu-gi-oh.. and that was back when i was 8

[dense cedar]

Doom is an anime

[stuck tartan]

Shadowlands is an anime

[balmy condor]

Tom and Jerry is an anime

I know this because anime is good, and tom and jerry is better than any anime I’ve watched

[stuck tartan]

Playing rogue is basically playing the protagonist of an anime

[dense cedar]

Tom and Jerry fighting game is the only good game

[stuck tartan]

I-....I mean its true

[strange python]

im leveling my rogue and i just realised the iron wire talent at 40 amplifies a passive you get at 46

very interesting

[balmy condor]

Level squishes are fun

[crisp glen]

Got this from the Gul'dan night fae theater (on lock)

[main forge]

on proc that can cause you to have less haste during a burst is no fun

[thorn echo]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

anime avatar

[potent raft]

sorry if this has been asked before:

Is there a custom string to put in raidbots that would sim the 8% increase?

[balmy condor]

Yes

override.spell_data=effect.179721.base_value=44
override.spell_data=effect.191052.base_value=44

It’ll be live in raidbots by tomorrow without the use of that override though

[fallen crypt]

NF or Necro for M+? So sick and tired of Kyrian, boring AF ^^

[potent raft]

thanks

[balmy condor]

Fae is stronger

[winter gale]

What will be difference between current sub and new assa for raiding?

[strange python]

which talent is or ability is making me randomly enter stealth when not using vanish

[winter gale]

Generally *

[balmy condor]

Sin will win on altimor, and has a niche for execute phases like on p3 sire

[fallen crypt]

Necro seems so nice, NF singel target ability like meh ^^

[balmy condor]

But generally won’t be better

[main forge]

are you night fae?

[strange python]

yes

[balmy condor]

Then it’s sepsis

[main forge]

Then its your covenant ability

[strange python]

oh

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

lol

[main forge]

No worries, its my favorite and least favorite

[stuck tartan]

oh god atleast its not beta sepsis

[main forge]

i just moved my stealth bar ambush or whatever to my mutilate button

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stuck tartan]

ambush after sepsis?

[balmy condor]

And that one is filter evasion

So I deleted it myself

:)

[strange python]

was just asking why it happened

[balmy condor]

And now we know

[main forge]

Wow, its been so long since I used assassination what is the appropriate button to hit with sepsis... it doesn't give empowered garrote does it?

[balmy condor]

You don’t use the buff at all

[daring pecan]

[strange python]

i use CS in pvp

[main forge]

that checks out

[fallen crypt]

I dont think it does, so probably go for an Ambush ^^

[balmy condor]

No

You like

[main forge]

nah, mutilate

[balmy condor]

Don’t do anything

You just pretend it doesn’t exist

[main forge]

just do normal rotation

damn. that sucks.

[fallen crypt]

Why tho? Ambush not worth the global/energy or what?

[balmy condor]

Correct

Same reason why you don’t ambush from stealth either

[fallen crypt]

Well thats crap, screw NF then 😛

[balmy condor]

Well

Screw ambush

Nf is Fine

[main forge]

I prefer having ambush back over SnD back

[stuck tartan]

Sepsis is good on itself

specially with toxic blade

[fallen crypt]

Nah im going Necro if Sepsis is gonna act like that XD

[stuck tartan]

Necro

[fallen crypt]

On the lvl im playing it will probably not matter ^^ not my main or anything

[stuck tartan]

nah im joking, play what u like tbh

[balmy condor]

Necro is fine too

[stuck tartan]

I mean, already playing sin is not going min maxin

[fallen crypt]

Necros mog is dope

Exactly ^^

[main forge]

heck if it ain't your main, go for the story you want to do

[stuck tartan]

i feel like best mog for leather is kyrian or venthyr

[fallen crypt]

I really dont enjoy sub at all, Outlaw is fine but a bit slow atm

[stuck tartan]

slow?

[fallen crypt]

Necro seems like a fun gang xD

[frigid sleet]

can you use a custom string in top gear ?

[balmy condor]

Depends on the string in question

[charred raptor]

I like all the rogue specs atm. Too bad my guild doesn't so I play Warlock

[frigid sleet]

the one you linked a bit before to simulated the 8%

[balmy condor]

No, that does not work

That’s advanced sim only

[fallen crypt]

Ufff xD

[stuck tartan]

My healer friend is trying to get me to play UHDK, I feel u

[stoic needle]

Honestly using sepsis for cheap shot in m+ is sick

[stuck tartan]

Thats the only way Im using sepsis buff tbh

Cheap cheap shot

[balmy condor]

Yup

That’s the play

[stuck tartan]

and less cost conduit

[fallen crypt]

To be clear, the sepsis stealth ability is it free or empowered in any way at all?

[stoic needle]

Ok but wait

[stuck tartan]

nop

not free not empowered

[stoic needle]

Prey on the weak

[stuck tartan]

u just can use it

[dense cedar]

Ambush is the 2nd most stinky part of current Sin rogue

[fallen crypt]

Ok

[stuck tartan]

prey on the weak

and lose a bleed with kidney?

[dense cedar]

at least the talent it has with it is neat

[stuck tartan]

u a madman

[stone marlin]

do you guys think the 9% buff is enough to make sin good again ( sry if there was a disscusion about this i just joined)

[stoic needle]

10% damage

[stuck tartan]

but fuck your teammates

a bleed is a bleed

more regen

wait it does regen right

[stoic needle]

For 5 seconds

I guess so

[stuck tartan]

I know CT doesnt

[strange python]

8%, check the pins

we're "viable"

[main forge]

check the pins... 8% buff... "good" no... viable yes.

I mean if 5 other classes get nerfs... we will be good again lol

[stuck tartan]

we just need an 8% buff to autoattacks too

[potent raft]

try as i might, raidbots doesnt want to accept that string

in the custom apl stuff nor the simc

[balmy condor]

You just add it underneath an import in an advanced sim

[potent raft]

advanced sim, that's the thing. aight

[balmy condor]

Yes

Top gear etc doesn’t accept custom overrides

[potent raft]

gotcha

sad. even with r3 leggo outlul still sims better than Sin on 2 targets

[balmy condor]

Well yes

That’s not a surprise

[potent raft]

i was planning on running it for huntsman, sludge and sire

but now i am not quite sure if it's gonna be beneficial

[knotty bear]

i am enjoying this iteration of outlaw so much that am unsure if I will even return to sin

[main forge]

I am enjoying Sub right now too... save for the AoE rotation, I prefer sin's for that

[knotty bear]

sub aoe killed my interest in the spec lmao

[main forge]

Sin seems to be lacking a niche though. although it typically does okay at all 3, ST, cleave, and AoE.

[potent raft]

so does outlaw atm

[delicate bone]

imagine being able to choose spec just on preference 😮

[winter gale]

Ill try outlaw in my hc reclear next week. Assa is an will always be my favourite spec but it needs more dmg to be viable.

[balmy condor]

Depends on your definition of viable I guess

[high wagon]

anyone doing twisting corridors yet? on layer one floor 18 and got Goxul the devourer and he does does to much damage and 3 mil hp cant burst him down enough

[balmy condor]

Strat for rogues is getting hella hp/healing, and/or 0 vial cooldown with random immunity on vial cast

And then just surviving everything

[high wagon]

ya cant kite cuz he channels and i got 80k and instant vial the channel out damage my vial

assuming just bad luck on the boss cuz all the other bosses were super easy leading up to 18

[rigid wyvern]

spam vial for cloak?

[spice spire]

Ye

[balmy condor]

80k hp isn’t that much tbh

[rigid wyvern]

kick/blind/kidney the channel?

[high wagon]

took every hp thing i could and cleared the whole instance

cant kick it can kidney but once he gets 10 stack cant cc anymore

[rigid wyvern]

didnt they get rid of the cc immunity?

[high wagon]

just gona wipe and try again and get a differant boss later i guess lol annoying wasted like 2 hours doing this

[balmy condor]

No it just stacks slower afaik

[high wagon]

all cosmetic stuff i guess anyway

[balmy condor]

Layer 8 mount kinda big though

[static cosmos]

just join a 5 man way easier

[high wagon]

is it ive always just soloed first time soloing as sin tho way easier than outlaw

[balmy condor]

Yeah 5 mans are actually free

[vocal sandal]

👋

[high wagon]

guess ill have to try that from now on lol never had problems before dont know if ive ever had that boss tho

is it usually a normal dungeon comp or is 5 dps fine

[balmy condor]

normal dungeon

[high wagon]

kk thanks

[magic vine]

you can outrange/los his big damage thingy

one of the few times grabbing some of the movement powers comes up super useful (improved jump is great for this)

to be honest take the jump power every time, it cuts a lot of time off a run

[outer lodge]

Preferred talents for Torghast? Mp/sub/mfd?/leeching/ib/pb or ct?

[fleet whale]

seems ok to me, i prefer vigor over MFD though.

and PB vs CT is personal preference

[outer lodge]

ok thats what i run pretty much

[fleet whale]

at least for me anyway lol

[outer lodge]

I guess ill try and get that dumb mount from layer 8

[fleet whale]

good luck

[outer lodge]

yeah really not looking forward to it - did the first 2. Its so boring

[exotic sundial]

Hey guys new to the channel. Just curious for enchants on my daggers I bought celestial and sinful. Which goes on MH and which on OH? I mainly PvP

[outer lodge]

It kinda sucks watching other classes literally jump into the middle of the floor and pull everything on top of themselves and aoe it down, while i have to 1v1 everything lol

It really doesnt matter either way Vito

[exotic sundial]

Wouldn’t MH proc more?

[strange python]

I think sinful mh

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

[outer lodge]

do your self a favor and play sub in pvp

[exotic sundial]

Naw. I’m liking Sin for PvP

My dmg truthfully is good. Takes a bit longer to ramp up but it’s strong once it does

Just I die in 2.5 secs 😭

And I get popped from stealth prob 50% of my games. 1st world problems.

Especially from UH abom

[velvet terrace]

yet you say "I’m liking Sin for PvP" ok

[exotic sundial]

If I were a sheep I’d prob play sub

But I’m not making money to play the game so I’ll play what I enjoy 😎

In even a dwarf lol

[velvet terrace]

idk how one can enjoy staying 1500 an entire season but you do you

[exotic sundial]

I’m hoping I get that lol

[outer lodge]

Hey if you are enjoying it - then keep playing it

[fading wigeon]

Get your verse up to 22

[exotic sundial]

When sin is meta again I won’t need to swap gear and legendarys too. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Once things settle down burst is going to be a thing of the past

[strange python]

@balmy condor Get ready the famous streamer is saying stuff again 😄

[exotic sundial]

And specs like afflic shadow sin and other sustained dmg specs will prevail

[velvet terrace]

we shouldnt normalize being fine with dampening meta

[balmy condor]

god fuck

[outer lodge]

LOL

[fading wigeon]

who is the famour streamer?

err famous*

[balmy condor]

guess names, and if you say the right name, the message gets auto-filtered by the bot

[fading wigeon]

lol

infexious

ok i give up

[balmy condor]

tsk tsk

[strange python]

@fading wigeon its 3 letters try one more time 😄

[balmy condor]

well he's mostly a sub airhead so it doesn't really matter

but if he's saying shit about sin now I'm gonna lose it

[fading wigeon]

lol

[strange python]

open his stream i heard the words you need high crit 😄

[balmy condor]

40% crit on sub

was his old thing

whats the new magic number

[strange python]

yeah i know he didnt give a number now i am waiting for more juice 😄

[fleet whale]

that we all need to running DS over vigor

vigor is for scrubs

[grand musk]

Will Assasinatjon be best with the 8% boost coming up?

[balmy condor]

no

[exotic sundial]

Hopefully no so we get more buffs

Muahahahahahaha

[torpid spoke]

it will be stronger for them. They scale insane with haste too

10% prob won't even help

ROFL

[alpine pier]

how shit is sin without haste?

[stoic needle]

I hope you like pooling

[alpine pier]

lolol

[balmy condor]

pooling isn't a gain though

hasn't been a thing for a long time

[rigid wyvern]

is it really not better to pool before like vanish for MA?

[balmy condor]

no

[stoic needle]

Sorry I didn't mean literally pooling, I just meant that your regen will be so low it'll feel like pooling

[indigo epoch]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[dense cedar]

Pooling not worth it even with EP?

[buoyant mauve]

why wouldn't pooling be a gain? I notice that I can manage all my dots and snd a lot more easily as well as keeping a high envenom uptime

[grim canopy]

those math people here u think Sin will be above arms next nxret week

[balmy condor]

correct

[dense cedar]

sin living the dream

button light up

hit button

just in slowmo

[balmy condor]

what are you pooling for though? If you're pooling for envenoms, and you can already keep up envenom, then you have the energy where you don't need to pool anyway. If you're pooling for shiv, you're forcing an overcap of some sort or delaying shiv most of the time

sims show that pooling just isn't worth it

it's not incorrect

but it doesn't give you anything either

[grim canopy]

i dont eally have a problem getting into raids, i just wonder how much the buff will help assassin in M+ seems like the aoe is already kinda bad

[buoyant mauve]

pooling to avoid situations were you have to choose between getting envenom off or a rupture and then having to use 2 gcd's to get back to picking the other option

[heady island]

to me, it gives me a sense of control if I don't need to re-apply anything, and at maybe 25% energy, I pool some to dance around 60% energy instead. Just to make sure I have energy if needed.

not for a dps gain, but for a fallback to save a dps loss, if that makes sense

[balmy condor]

its better than sub without the buff, so take that how you want

[buoyant mauve]

that's how I'm pooling as well, in case things line up poorly so multiple things fall off around the same time

[heady island]

i think that makes your question 'why wouldn't pooling be a gain' strange though, since we kinda agree that it's not about winning dps. It's about saving our skin in case we had some faults we didnt account for

(and I think that's what whispyr means, that it's not a gain, but of course may or may not have a purpose depending on situation)

[buoyant mauve]

hmm I guess it wouldn't be considered a gain then, just an avoidance of loss

[toxic tusk]

So, just in case someone else doesn’t get it like we do, what do you guys mean by pooling?

Disregard.

Just saw it.

[balmy condor]

purposely holding onto energy/combo points

[toxic tusk]

Ah gotcha.

So, with shiv, if you’re at 5 is it better to use a 5 point envenom, or use shiv wasting its point and then using a 5 point envenom?

[balmy condor]

you shiv on cooldown regardless

[toxic tusk]

Well yeah.

[grim canopy]

What Cov is best for m+, still NF?

[balmy condor]

yes

[wind canopy]

w8 u shiv @ 5 if it comes up?

[obtuse ruin]

Hopefully with scaling sin will be competitive with MM and mages

[dense cedar]

[balmy condor]

yep sin scaling

very good meme

just 400 ilvl to go

[obtuse ruin]

I mean once we can get 40%+ crit

[balmy condor]

oh no

its begun

I knew it would happen

but not this soon

[obtuse ruin]

It won’t work that way? Sorry just pipe dreaming

[fading wigeon]

I thought it was 34%

[balmy condor]

the banned streamer trolls from the grave

[obtuse ruin]

😂

[obtuse ruin]

Who?

[balmy condor]

jiant penis cock

[dense cedar]

[obtuse ruin]

O shit I was actually watching him 😂 don’t follow what he says then?

[balmy condor]

well yes I know you were watching him

that's why I said I knew it would happen

he's been spreading nonsense about sub for months

and now he's testing sin

so the nonsense will come here as well

the cycle continues

[dense cedar]

Is it a loss to use rupture as a sin rogue?

[obtuse ruin]

Yeah wanted to confirm when he said sin might be comparable with hunters and mages with better stats later so popped up here

[balmy condor]

my pain is immeasurable

[obtuse ruin]

I’m sorry

[next bay]

Is it a loss to attack as an assassination rogue? I find that if I don't attack at all, people can't make fun of my DPS.

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna speedrun tldr the big ticket shit he's pulled out of his ass:

1. Sub: take rupture off your bars, it's not worth using
2. Sub: only good at 40% crit, not worth playing before that
3. Outlaw: doesn't need specific stats, just put on gear and go
4. Sin: Needs high crit to function in m+
   4.1 Sin: Needs 40%+ crit (I guess he finally said the magic words)

he's also encouraged his people to troll the shit out of this server

and there's been porn spamming and shit

so uh

yeah, there's a reason why his name is auto-modded

[solar hare]

Somebody say 35% crit?

[balmy condor]

we don't really enjoy misinformation here, and we especially don't like it when corrections to misinformation is met with trolling and dipshittery

[obtuse ruin]

Got it. Didn’t really know about the whole thing that went down with this streamer

[balmy condor]

yeh

its real easy to go "ooo streamer gud"

and then kinda parrot what he says

which is what got us into the mess to begin with

[obtuse ruin]

Yeah just got baited that sin will be better than outlaw and got too excited

[balmy condor]

yeah that's probably not happening

better than sub? maybe

depending on how the pulls end up

[scenic nacelle]

who is the troll I want to be aware of this meme

[balmy condor]

its a 3 letter name

that starts with a j, ends with a p, and has a c in the middle

and it is filtered

[scenic nacelle]

lol

[balmy condor]

so we can move on

:)

or uh

I spelt his name wrong

whatever

he doesn't deserve it spelt properly anyway

[scenic nacelle]

found it

[balmy condor]

good

now un-found it

[scenic nacelle]

ah blessed to have him on my server

[normal slate]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[dense cedar]

passive-aggressive smile @balmy condor

[next bay]

I'm guessing if I do M+ and raid every week, Zoldyck is the choice if I only had to make one leggo?

[balmy condor]

yes

[next bay]

thanks.

[balmy condor]

zoldyck for all pve

[low girder]

for some reason i thought it was a different streamer who won't be named

who did all of those