lol
#assassination
fleet anchor
violet wasp
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
stoic needle
The past month was just the hyperbaric time chamber
wind canopy
you take your sim dps, times it by 8 and thats new sim dps
turns out i win shadowlands l8r nerds
grim canopy
damn
wind canopy
im going sin for heroic clear next week!!
timber oak
I am enjoying outlaw but give me my poisons and bleeds
tidal gorge
8% more is * 1.8, duuuuhhhhhhhh. /s
lone junco
Shoulder DFA was pretty good shit in keys back in the day. 👌
drowsy plaza
so making zoldyck, do we know if its legs or boots?
balmy condor
legs
rigid wyvern
legs
grim canopy
so with these changes does the guides change at all. or do I do the same shit
like same covenent
balmy condor
so with these changes does the guides change at all. or do I do the same shit
same
same everything
grim canopy
ok
sleek otter
Assassa buuuufffffffs
rigid wyvern
lul
sleek otter
OMg yeeeeees
wind canopy
i bought a 220 dagger last night
manic harness
Now I just need a Mutilate/Ambush macro
stoic needle
No you don't
rigid wyvern
I just have a seperate key for it lol
lone junco
If you hit for say 1000+100+10= 1110 8% buff is 1080+108+10.8= 1198.8 1198.8/1110 = 1.08 gain. aka 8% buff.
grim canopy
i havn't played much SL cause i really don't care about wow when Sin sucks, so what do you mean buy "Buy weapon"? theres vendors now?
mental igloo
you get a weapon token
stoic needle
Conquest pvp vendors
mental igloo
from a boss drop
rigid wyvern
i assume either BoE or pvp weapon
stoic needle
Or weapon tokens from raid
balmy condor
@grim canopy that is some real bad math
grim canopy
lol
rigid wyvern
I would say raid token is still a "Drop" imo
stoic needle
It's aight
One of the better expansions in recent memory even if the balance has been a bit wacky
rigid wyvern
the real suffering is buying rank 4 pants
strange python
is sin now going to outshine sub in raid/M+
grim canopy
Dunno
frigid sleet
on some particular cleave scenario prolly
stoic needle
Huntsman will be sin land
rigid wyvern
huntsman already is sin land
frigid sleet
I would say sire too
tidal gorge
Stone generals would be decent also
stoic needle
Sun king is still shit tho 
grim canopy
wow wtf, mechagnome is really this OP? https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/races/1t-t26-assassination
stoic needle
Yes
rigid wyvern
Sun King i just use the altar and spam rupture lol
stoic needle
But it comes with the hidden -1000dps modifier for being an ugly gnome
stuck tartan
wtf do mechagnomes
grim canopy
crazy shit
stoic needle
Gnomes are bad enough
tidal gorge
lol, my sun king job was shit even as sub. I break shields, who cares about padding when we have as many MM hunters as we do
stoic needle
But mechagnomes? Yikers
manic harness
When I open from stealth as Sin, why am I getting Outlaw buffs like Skull and Crossbone?
tropic topaz
I was mechagnome
grim canopy
holy fuck my rogue is mag'har
tropic topaz
Swapped to void elf
grim canopy
and look at mag'har in that list
tropic topaz
Cuz I couldn’t take it anymore
stoic needle
When I open from stealth as Sin, why am I getting Outlaw buffs like Skull and Cr...
Because you still have CtO socketed
Gnome is truly a cursed existence
rigid wyvern
I liked my gnone on alliance rude
manic harness
Oh I guess that makes sense
golden nexus
gnome is masterrace u mad
stoic needle
Race choice doesn't matter unless you're doing mythic world first prog
Play what looks best
rigid wyvern
its literally a .7% damage difference my guy
stoic needle
Which means not gnome
sleek otter
In PvP its exciting
grim canopy
hmm
stoic needle
Maghar is pretty ugly too
grim canopy
um no they look sweet
stoic needle
Idk I just dislike the male orc models in retail
grim canopy
its my fav
stoic needle
The animations are way too exaggerated
grim canopy
i guess ill go regular orc
stoic needle
Don't race change if you like the way it looks
stoic needle
Yes they literally don't matter
grim canopy
orc stun resist
rigid wyvern
troll master race
pseudo hamlet
8% buff! (slowpoke, but still happy about it!)
fleet whale
shadowmeld is great in M+
and gl with balance getting nerfed lol
it's blizz's pet spec
grim canopy
I had go to the forums to get more concrete info. You guys are kinda meh. "“With the 8% aura buff we’re getting coming this reset (Jan 12th for NA), this puts sin into a viable spot for raids. Outlaw will still be preferred most likely, but sin will be viable. This culminates to 13%, which was the sweet spot most TC’s and CF’s have been pushing for.”"
stoic needle
bro what
that's literally in the pins
written by whispyr
who is in this discord
rigid wyvern
Bruh he literally says he got that from this discord
grim canopy
pliant apex
also if its just striaght out dmg, it means sin will remain equally mundane to play right
like real slow energy regen?
rigid wyvern
Sin feels fine to me
grim canopy
So it will feel lik asasssin rogue
knotty bear
stay outlaw friend 🙂
grim canopy
sounds good
grim canopy
ya let those furry and outlaw weirdos want high apm in a tab target old combat mmo
fleet whale
nah i think some of them think that gcd locked sin in NYA
was the standard for whatever reason
rigid wyvern
why does warcraftlogs think sinful relevation is a cast for cpm 🤔
timber oak
need to get some daggers for sin now, only have the 184 ones from Pvp
and i Just got the conquest sword a few hours ago lol
stoic needle
you might be able to refund it
i'm still not quite sure what the restrictions are on it
but it's possible up until a certain point
timber oak
Highly doubt it, its enchanted + been using it for m+ today
rigid wyvern
just run high level mist keys forever until you get a Tanglewood Thorn /s
timber oak
will do that for sure
rigid wyvern
I straight up havent seen a weapon this expac outside my vault lol
rigid wyvern
actually I did get the plaguefall dagger once
rigid wyvern
Im mostly playing it cause I like how the theme matches up with sepsis
timber oak
My group doesn't mind if I play sin atm but I do feel like i'm just dragging them down thus I went to outlaw/sub, gonna go back to sin when the buff comes. Idc anymore lol
jagged elk
and there goes the sin-channel. holy fuck
timber oak
yeah gotta swap to night fae, been playing kyrian but that ability is more of a drag than useful due to how hard it can be to line up the combos necessary to use it
grim canopy
hipster
grim canopy
but if you add up 8% per skill
timber oak
as long as it is on par with sub I'm fine
toxic tusk
Because fuck sub.
timber oak
its an overall 8% buff, it's pretty good
toxic tusk
Fuck subs, get sins?
timber oak
not sure if enough but I sure as hell like it
grim canopy
once druid is nerfed it should be fine
little moth
i mean ass is probably going to be good on a couple fights
balmy condor
8% still seems a bit, er
its definitely not
little moth
with the amount of downtime n shit
balmy condor
8% is like 400dps
celest ruin
is this good for assa? 
balmy condor
so if 400 dps is "eh"
fleet whale
yeah i did the math myself in my sim
balmy condor
then I guess nothing matters
fleet whale
it's around 350-400 dps
balmy condor
its almost 450 for me
fleet whale
i'm only 198 ilvl
timber oak
hmm
fleet whale
so the more geared you are, the more it will be
timber oak
400 dps is pretty good I think ?
toxic tusk
What’s your dps normally sit around in raid?
fleet whale
it's ok
timber oak
i'm currently 198 as outlaw
balmy condor
What’s your dps normally sit around in raid?
that highly depends on fight
proper sage
toxic
rigid wyvern
Leave me and my mediocre guild alone
toxic tusk
Oh man I’m bad.
restive spire
so its still the worst rogue spec for pretty much everything but its at least playable now
proper sage
i heard a certian someone talking about their parses during normal? @balmy condor
pliant apex
they gota make it no 1
proper sage
balmy condor
fleet whale
it's the best rogue spec for torghast
rigid wyvern
people wanted damage numbers ;-; i just wanted to help
pliant apex
sin is good for torghast?
proper sage
yes
fleet whale
yes
balmy condor
sin is very good for torg
pliant apex
i always play sub in there
toxic tusk
Haha, well that worked.
pliant apex
dam
balmy condor
people wanted damage numbers ;-; i just wanted to help
I'm just memeing, you're good XD
fleet whale
it has amazing synergies with powers
proper forge
i might try sin again 4fun once the buffs hit, can i do dagger sword like otl can do sword dagger?
fleet whale
i had first steps and a 10 second shadow step in a TC run
balmy condor
i might try sin again 4fun once the buffs hit, can i do dagger sword like otl ca...
have to do dagger/dagger
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
fleet whale
felt real good
fair storm
I love assassin my character got really big ass and im hard everytime i play it especially now that we do big dps too man its hard being hard all the time
rigid wyvern
Does anyone know if vein rippers works in solo? I keep seeing it but I feel like its a trap so i dont pick it
balmy condor
yes it does
obsidian willow
Oooh sin getting new buffs this week
proper forge
where's dashing scoundrel from
balmy condor
where's dashing scoundrel from
council iirc
proper forge
i think the only sin specific legendary i have is toxic blade LOL
trim raptor
What missive should we use for crafting zold?
drowsy plaza
legs
trim raptor
Missives though, the stats
willow leaf
I mean 8% won't cut it though if the sims are any indication?
candid jasper
I do like the idea of assassination being good! I don't even have any idea what legendary I would use
candid jasper
Dashing scoundrel I guess
balmy condor
pins
willow leaf
I mean these buffs is going to shoot frost mages into the stratosphere, and assa won't even get to the point where frost mages were before?
manic harness
sub isn't even viable anymore really lol
balmy condor
sub isn't even viable anymore really lol
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
pliant apex
well im not learning outlaw now naha
pliant apex
sub isn't even viable anymore really lol
its not?
balmy condor
if you think sub isn't viable you're actually trolling
balmy condor
idk what reality you have to live in to believe that
drowsy plaza
outlaw will still probably be better in M+
obsidian willow
Outlaw is the best for m+
proper forge
tbf with the way bf works outlaw will probably always be the best rogue m+ spec unless the spell gets nuked
balmy condor
sin will be better, it won't be better than the current specs in their strength
it'll lose to sub in single target
obsidian willow
The only time sub can beat outlaw is during single target boss but even then, outlaw a chance to out-DPS sub if the fight lasts long enough
balmy condor
it'll lose to outlaw in m+
willow leaf
sub does well in tyrannical weeks though
balmy condor
the question we can't answer yet, is if its better in keys than sub
stone epoch
Best 2 target cleave spec I guess?
balmy condor
which is a possibility
somber egret
I love this discord when buffs and nerfs happen. You see some wild shit
fallow solar
Guessing ass gonna crush it on 2-3 boss fights
proper forge
even if its not better than the other 2 specs, the buffs seem pretty damn big, that's great, as long as the spec does good damage its ok
balmy condor
I love this discord when buffs and nerfs happen. You see some wild shit<:saddadO...
definitely a lot of hotter than magma takes coming from people who never have anything to say otherwise tbh
potent raft
so Sin would take it's place back to being a good 2/3 target cleave, the only thing that this changes is huntsman and maybe Sire (since execute is also important)
balmy condor
so Sin would take it's place back to being a good 2/3 target cleave, the only th...
correct, but it'll keep up fairly well on other fights too
will be decent on sludge, council, etc
marble bear
so sin good now? 😄
daring pecan
potent raft
i dont see it being very good on council
balmy condor
probably will
potent raft
you can get more energy regenn yea
balmy condor
for a while
this is the painful part of the job :P
it'll be fine
just deep breaths
and bringing people back to reality
from whatever fantasy land they've created for themselves
rigid wyvern
reality whats that? Sin got buffed so we should be the best spec in the game now right? /s
stone epoch
Think you’re gonna stay sub Whispyr? Or is this good enough for you to play sin again?
balmy condor
exactly
somber egret
While I’ve been forced to play boomy for raid my ass rogue with juiced legos is kicking the dust off
eternal herald
i got some perspective today, met a good sub rogue, with the same gear as me, doing heroics, he's pulling over 5k on groups, and usually 100 dps ahead single target.
hidden bloom
guys
are you going to be night fae in the high renown or are you going to stay in kyrian?
balmy condor
are you going to be night fae in the high renown or are you going to stay in kyr...
once a fae, always a fae
drowsy plaza
i'm just glad this buff means that i can play sub without feeling like i'm actively holding back my group
rigid wyvern
this buff means you can play sub 🤔
empty cradle
Is sepsis buffed by sin mastery?
somber egret
Buff bone spike please
pliant apex
is no one playing venth?
balmy condor
Is sepsis buffed by sin mastery?
no
drowsy plaza
i do oldhouse
rigid wyvern
Isnt it still buffed by shiv?
toxic tusk
Shivalry is dead.
daring pecan
this is the painful part of the job :P
I know man, I've been there quite a few times
onyx hemlock
yo i heard sin was buffed again
daring pecan
eternal mountain
will the 8% increase be enough though?
shadow tulip
Doubt
onyx hemlock
its in addition to the previous 5%, sin will get closer i imagine
slender berry
id give sin a try but with my gear i have like 300 haste 1200 versa so yea dont think its happening
daring pecan
you can't make this shit up
it's literally a machine that says the same thing every 5 minutes
placid dawn
my sin for now is about 150 dps below outlul (counting the 8%) so i would take it just to make it non rng
grim canopy
Did blizard forget a 0...cause it will take 80% to touch balance druid as Sin
placid dawn
and the bleeds help a LOT on intermissions and when you have to run out
onyx hemlock
i mean, the goal isnt to approach balance
grim canopy
it's to beat it
onyx hemlock
there we go, lmao
placid dawn
so i would say sin is viable with this buff for sure
onyx hemlock
good attitude
onyx hemlock
can we get a convoke the spirits for sin then? one that casts ranged 5cp ruptures, subter-buffed garrotes and shivs at randoms enemies for 500k? kthx bliz
sudden canyon
nerf sin
grim canopy
dont like any of rogues cov abilities tbh
onyx hemlock
i like venth for sin. naj's haste buff proc lining up with full flagellation feels good
is putting in the effort good? not even. but its cool
rigid wyvern
Idk what your talking about, sepsis doing 20k damage in a pull is awesome
orchid mortar
yeah right? Like, Druids: 16 spells in a 3 second window. Super fun, blows shit up. Rogue: spicy mutilate once every 45 secs, a scuffed vanish that doesnt count as a vanish, a ramp buff you have to wait to have fun with, or a dot you put up and forget about
/yawn
unkempt nacelle
mfw i wanted to roll sin at SL launch, didn't, now it gets buffs
lesson learned bros
orchid mortar
Just multispec, I started as sub, went outlaw, am eyeing up sin lol
rigid wyvern
like why cant sepsis atleast count for subterfuge garrote :/
stone epoch
I cannot get haste gear for the life of me. I’m statted like a sub rogue. And I’m stuck with skulker’s wing, I hate that trinket
grim canopy
necrolord skill was nerfed too hard
orchid mortar
I hate the playstyle of Flagellation which is a shame because Venthyr was my favorite covenant by far visually and thematically
buoyant mauve
same I just left venthyr and now I can't mog my dagger anymore because of it
orchid mortar
Sadge
grim canopy
ya i like my arms warrior caues he gets to be venth, the armor looks sick and the glowing red shit from Najda is awesome
robust pine
a dot you put up and forget about
So you shouldn't use necrolord skill for CPs?
orchid mortar
I am Kyrian atm because I picked a good choice for both pvp and pve, though First Strike is opening for NF soon... Is it as good for assassination as it is the others?
buoyant mauve
night fae sims higher at around 30 renown iirc
stone epoch
>a dot you put up and forget about
So you shouldn't use necrolord skill for CPs?
It’s got that agility buff if you use emeni which is kinda nice but otherwise, yeah cheap CPs
orchid mortar
I was being facetious when I said that
oversimplified but I still do find it boring lol
cheap CP's compared to convoke the spirits or condemn
strange python
Lmao this channel been popping off since the news of dmg buff
robust pine
Well... yes?
tidal gorge
SIN FOREVER, LONG LIVE SIN
robust pine
sin channel is active after news about sin
orchid mortar
I'm a dps whore, chose rogue because I enjoy all 3 specs legitimately, and will play whatever is meta. Now that a buff is announced... it's at least making me check here more often 😉
buoyant mauve
well it was a pleasent surprise for me since I just crafted zoldyck yesterday 😄
robust pine
unbelievable
fallow solar
Sin venthyr could be the play
balmy condor
Sin venthyr could be the play
no
potent raft
why?
balmy condor
venthyr sucks
woven stream
I took Heroic WCL at the 95th percentile over the past week. This definitely closes the gap somewhat, but not all the way to Sub/OL. Comes a bit too late in some ways as I always feel like Sin's time to shine is during early progression. It puts it in the right ballpark though, and the ability to do most of our DPS while taking on roles like running seeds maybe gives it an edge?
strange python
Will flat dmg actually help the spec tho... felt omega slow when I played it at launch
balmy condor
Will flat dmg actually help the spec tho... felt omega slow when I played it at ...
slow does not equal bad
grim canopy
too bad abotu venthyr. that armor is sick
potent raft
i wonder why is venthyr bad, with haste and 3% more dmg
grim canopy
which cov best for m+
orchid mortar
You guys think this will open up assassination for PVP at all? I know this is mostly pve focused conversation but I love doing all the content lol
rigid wyvern
I hope so
tired falcon
sub does rogue stuff better :/
buoyant mauve
highly doubt it
rigid wyvern
Sin is decent in arena for the split pressure you can apply
it kinda relys on the entire meta becoming less bursty imo
orchid mortar
I really enjoy sub pvp but I also like rotting people
Guess youre right tho, its all about burst atm
orchid mortar
gotta decide whether to go from 225 to 235 on my celerity, or save it and make a sin legendary... even if it isnt the "meta" spec, I enjoy it and it would be fun to have the option (since it appears the gap will be way smaller)
daring pecan
slow does not equal bad
the legend of high apm = high dmg continues
it will never end
rigid wyvern
I mean, my 235 legs literally gave like 8 agi and 6 total secondary stats
orchid mortar
Yeah i simmed it, I gain about 20 dps with the next rank. But....... also, I play outlaw on almost every fight, and dps is dps, so
rigid wyvern
fair
unkempt nacelle
If sub and other melee heavy hitters like WW and arms see PvP nerfs soon, assassination will definitely see some play
orchid mortar
arms and WW are egregiously busted atm
unkempt nacelle
As of right now tho prob not, because assassinatikns damage wasn’t really the core issue in terms of PvP
jagged axle
SHEEESH a whole 8% wtf
manic harness
So the buff isn't active until Tuesday right/
rigid wyvern
the issue is theres no reason to apply a 20s rupture when sub kills them in 2s
jagged axle
boutta start crafting zolydycks boys cuz im runnin it back
dashing scoundrel BiS? dope as fuck
love that legendary
grim canopy
i see everyone use zolydack
unkempt nacelle
Well sin also only has one step so shit mobility
It’s also a spec that relies on outputting raw pressure in a meta full of disgusting one shot burst so it can’t really even do that properly
Whereas sub exists to just reset and get dance cheap shots
jagged axle
im fuckin stacked for outlaw though dawg
strange python
Prolly go dashing for prog and zoldy for clears
jagged axle
i got 9% haste
rigid wyvern
Isnt dashing like minutely better single target for horrific losses on multi target?
balmy condor
yes
you would 100% go zold for prog
the execute is worth more than the gain in single target for most fights
(sludge and sire for example pretty big)
potent raft
im really thinking it would shine in Sire
grim canopy
damn NF armor looks silly as shit
balmy condor
yes
potent raft
entirety of p2 and p3 with zold
balmy condor
I am switching to sin when I can craft my zoldyck
fading wigeon
Oh man so excited
strange python
What did they do to sin?
fading wigeon
Best news all day
balmy condor
What did they do to sin?
8% aura
rigid wyvern
zoldyck on huntsman is my favorite
strange python
Feels bleh
unkempt nacelle
So zoldyck is basically the play for Sin speaking strictly m+ right? I don’t raid
marble bear
thank god. I can play smol brain sin again I love dots and poisons and bleeds
balmy condor
So zoldyck is basically the play for Sin speaking strictly m+ right? I don’t rai...
yes
jagged axle
how far behind outlaw/sub u think assass will be now, have to wait for tha numbers IG but what are u guys thinking
marble bear
What cov/Leggo/Conduit do I wanna do if I want to Raid and do M+?
jagged axle
thats not bad at all 👀
balmy condor
What cov/Leggo/Conduit do I wanna do if I want to Raid and do M+?
doesn't matter/zoldyck/lethal or wps
jagged axle
wasn't the difference between covenants only like 3%
balmy condor
yes
jagged axle
sheeesh im boutta buss
marble bear
whats the funnest cov
jagged axle
thats an opinion based question bro
marble bear
cause if i have another night fae toon imma puke
balmy condor
the difference from best cov to worst, in full bis, full conduit, full soulbind, is 2.99%
and thats with necrolord being not great
balmy condor
kyrian/venthyr/fae are within 1.4%
strange python
I don’t see how being 6% behind the second best spec for your class isn’t bad
marble bear
What about Venthyr? is that one fun?
rigid wyvern
the kyrian minigame is the most interesting I would say but that might just be grass is greener cause im night fae
balmy condor
I don’t see how being 6% behind the second best spec for your class isn’t bad
then you don't understand damage profiles
strange python
That’s quite accusatory
balmy condor
sub suffers from downtime
suffers from cooldown timing
sin has execute damage
and better cleave
grim canopy
buff venth/necrolord i wanna look cool
jagged axle
just finished my venth set
strange python
That’s all you had to say my abrasive rogue friend
marble bear
what is the ability anyway?
manic harness
Garrote or Ambush for opener?
balmy condor
@strange python I've dealt with pepega dipshits in this channel for hours, mb
jagged axle
your CP spenders stack a debuff on the target and do damage, then at 30 stacks u can reactivate it for a haste buff
buoyant mauve
if the second time you had to press ven ability was off gcd I might go back
marble bear
That sounds cool o.o
potent raft
i'm still thinking Sub will be better for sludge. you need overall dps, nothing "special" happens under 30%, being able to use SoD on each pillar is huge
marble bear
poisons go brrr
jagged axle
does it do a burst of damage on reactivation?
cuz if it does then I'd understand tha GCD thing
potent raft
it doesnt
jagged axle
cringe, imagine if it did damage based on stacks
potent raft
it deals damage while building those stacks so
jagged axle
like mind spike and mind blast or whatever that spriest mechanic was
fallow solar
The sound effect of flag pretty shit too.. Total missed opportunity blizz
potent raft
indeed
balmy condor
i'm still thinking Sub will be better for sludge. you need overall dps, nothing ...
you can use TB on every pillar as well, vanish/vendetta is a 2 min so that's pretty good too
30% is usual lust point though with pillar
and with lust + pillar + 30% enrage
that's kinda good
potent raft
fair point
balmy condor
wait slaughter was even more boring
strange python
@balmy condor we good. I just want sin to be viable. Fell in love with it in wrath and don’t like it being last dps spec
balmy condor
was just a poison and ambush v2
strange python
Or second to last
potent raft
slaughter was good for the other specs
jagged axle
based poison and cool effect
agile geode
What was the ability slaughter?
potent raft
ambush+deadly poison
agile geode
I know it has been change
agile geode
But dont know what was it
grim canopy
the name is weird too
fading adder
It’s the EP trinket
tidal gorge
Flag is razor coral v2
agile geode
Flagellation sucks a lot
jagged axle
flagellation? makes sense
tidal gorge
AKA golden handcuffs
jagged axle
the haste buff is tha only thing its good for
agile geode
Only aestetic
jagged axle
it does like 3% of overall damage on my meters
potent raft
if they take the reactivation off the GCD or make it not require a reactivation it will be a lot more "livable"
rigid wyvern
Just use troll berserking for 10% haste on your vendetta lul
strange python
@balmy condor my question would be this, however, aren’t we using performance numbers on wow logs to see what 8% aura does. And don’t we still fall 5-6% behind in dps performance in live fights taking into consideration movement and downtime? I could be missing something.
daring pecan
wat
strange python
Oh perfect
grim canopy
💯
tidal gorge
balmy condor
don't troll or you'll get a vacation
strange python
I think sin suffers from apm tax
marble bear
poke with knife
strange python
So they are comfortable with a 5-8% dps deficit which is probably fair
grim canopy
I think sin suffers from apm tax
Affliction.
marble bear
Where's Zoldyck come from?
rigid wyvern
torghast I believe
strange python
That an interesting point
What’s it say about me that my favorite specs are sin and affliction
agile geode
I dont think sin will overclass sub btw
Was hopin
Cause in progress sin is very nice
I love sub
balmy condor
definitely won't overclass
strange python
Sin is very nice for everything tbh very chill raiding experience
agile geode
Even 13% wont help so much
grim canopy
it will
strange python
8% probably makes sin more reasonable to choose
agile geode
At least a rework for something or another 5%
balmy condor
8% makes it reasonable
strange python
But isn’t going to put you near the top of the meter
buoyant mauve
maybe bad take, but I'm not a fan of the return of snd for mut, in cata at least we only had to cast it once and in legion it didn't even exist so keeping up envenom buff was way more manageable
hidden monolith
..
strange python
Snd imo is just part of rogue
balmy condor
snd bad was the whole beta
rigid wyvern
I have zero issues with snd
eternal mountain
i think another 3-5% will come soon tbh i prefer incremental increases than one big one that overdoes it resulting in a nerf soon after
buoyant mauve
if envenom reset the duration on snd like it did in cata it would feel a lot better imo
hidden monolith
yup
rigid wyvern
then whats the point?
fallow solar
Make it 12% and you got a deal, till then I'm sub baby
rigid wyvern
it would just be a single 5cp tax at the start of the fight
rigid wyvern
ya but then the argument should be to get rid of it
not a middle ground of use it once then refresh it with envenom
grim canopy
Replace with kingsbane
fleet whale
yeah if blizz were to bring back abilities
edgy ginkgo
would you take legy shoes or legy cloak?
fleet whale
i have a good amount that rank above snd lol
tardy steppe
What did they buff again?
tidal gorge
Sludgefist + kingsbane would be so fun to optimize
balmy condor
What did they buff again?
aura
tardy steppe
What does that mean
rigid wyvern
generic damage buff
tardy steppe
Ah, how much?
rigid wyvern
all your damage is increased by flat 8%
edgy ginkgo
Guys should i take the legy cloak or legy shoes?
rigid wyvern
I think for sin to be better in pvp the meta has to shift from burst ¯_(ツ)_/¯
its not really an issue with the damage
tardy steppe
True dat
rigid wyvern
just no reason to dot someone when you can one shot them instead
legendary should be pants im pretty sure
buoyant mauve
the satisfaction of watching them helplessly wither away?
rigid wyvern
oh dont get me wrong i play sin in pvp for exactly that
but from a competitive sense i dont see it being optimal
probably doable though
edgy ginkgo
am i taking zoldyck? thought i have to take dashing scoundrel?
rigid wyvern
zoldyck is better, its minutely worst single target in exchange for much better multi target
serene basin
am i taking zoldyck? thought i have to take dashing scoundrel?
same old story, depende on how many targets
2 on dashing is worse
edgy ginkgo
pure single, for cleave i'm playsing outlaw
serene basin
yeah, ST dashing is good
fleet whale
honestly even then, i would go zoldyck
having a stronger execute is more useful overall
plus scoundrel relies a little more on uptime
edgy ginkgo
ok, tnak you
thats why i'm askingf.. focused completely on outlaw and waited for a sin buff.. and here we go 😄
hazy iron
8% increase, we back boys?
fleet whale
should be viable for raid yeah
grim canopy
8% increase, we back boys?
fleet whale
honestly outlaw is prolly still better overall
hazy iron
I have arthritis ffs
fleet whale
but you should be fine switching to sin if you really don't like outlaw
mental igloo
Pants with Haste Vers yeah?
fleet whale
whatever stats are best for you
hazy iron
Im only casually raiding so it'd have been fine haha
buoyant mauve
same
mental igloo
Interesting
split grail
I just hope 8% is enough to make s viable
mental igloo
Fuck I guess I'll grind dagger in PVP since my other one is only 184
rigid wyvern
I have haste/vers pants cause i use em in pvp
edgy ginkgo
are the leather runecarving items on your server so expensive aswell?
fleet whale
last i checked 225 pants are 50k on mine
balmy condor
yes
rigid wyvern
I may have spent like 300k total on my 235pants
rigid wyvern
mostly cause i did all the upgrades like a mad man
fleet whale
so who knows maybe people are jacking the prices up now
edgy ginkgo
235 pants 200k here.. chest vfor sub 500k.. bullshit 😦
obtuse robin
is zoldyck any good for torghast
void pecan
Do I.. build assassination legendary just in case or rank 4 of outlaw...
rigid wyvern
I mean if you want to hedge your bets its not a huge dps difference from rank 3 to 4
this was my stat upgrades for 225->235 pants
+5 Armor
+8 Agi
+19 Stam
+3 Haste
+3 Vers
fallow marsh
And the effect doesn’t change right?
stoic needle
just farm the mats and pay nothing for your legendary bases like me shrug
rigid wyvern
Im too busy doing herbalism and watching an army of druid bots sprint past me looting all the same nodes
true ingot
lmao
tardy steppe
will sin be like viable for raids now? Or were they way more then 8% off the median
balmy condor
depends on your definition of viable
will it be topping the warcraftlogs charts for rogue specs? no
is it good enough? yes
you're not trolling by playing sin
and with zoldyck and the damage profile, there's an argument to be made for execute phase and downtime
something like sire
rigid wyvern
Gonna have to move on to survival hunter as my next hipster spec at this rate damn
balmy condor
it also will beat sub on cleave like huntsman
balmy condor
increase poison and bleed damage when the target is under 30% hp
rigid wyvern
also matches up nicely with blindside
balmy condor
indeed
rigid wyvern
so execute phase gets real fun
rare ember
Just a question, Since i checked bloodmallet for the bis legendary it said Dashing Scoundrel, is it the one i should go for now that the buff is coming?
balmy condor
no
dashing is purely a single target legendary
slightly behind that, is zoldyck, which wins in cleave, and aoe
you should craft rank 4 zoldyck and never unequip it ever again in pve
rare ember
sounds good 👌 , hopeful the buffs are enough
balmy condor
they're good enough
outer lodge
what is the consensus on oils vs sharpening stones ?
outer lodge
ty
lost sentinel
is sin good now? 8% ability damage buff
balmy condor
pins
lost sentinel
I just made my rank 4 legend for sub this week...
charred raptor
Mut is my preferred spec for Twisting Corridor so I'm pretty pumped for buffs.
lost sentinel
though tbh I did try out some sin and the rotation felt worse than BFA... granted I could use a lot more haste
rigid wyvern
Then play sub, the buff mostly helps to close the gap, its not overtaking it in the damage charts from what I understand
I've been running double oil, but thats mostly cause I have all this god damn death blossom in my inventory
lament bolt
I just made my rank 4 legend for sub this week...
Same. Got a rank 2 MA ring though so I wouldn't be hurt too terribly badly if I switch
rigid wyvern
Fair
I know I should probably use sharpening stones but I have to walk to the auction house for that and I am incredibly lazy
mortal pike
time to go back to the assa rogue roots
buoyant mauve
my broke ass has been using prolonged power lol
lament bolt
If they're even close to comparable though I'll play preference over min/max. Kinda like I did with covenants by taking Venthyr. RIP any usefulness from there if I do go back to assa though
balmy condor
:) we have a pin
rigid wyvern
omg Whispyr im sorry it never ends lmao
balmy condor
such is life
rigid wyvern
its like clockwork holy shit
main forge
this chat was dead for weeks
balmy condor
yeah
frosty bridge
Sorry :( i was on phone and forgot about pins
balmy condor
yeah that happens to everyone XD
main forge
except for "is sin viable yet?" "No go back to play another spec"
balmy condor
you're like the 200th person today
find solace in the fact that you're normal
I guess
tidal gorge
Hey guys I just joined the channel, I checked the pins and saw that the buff looks alright for sin. Thanks for the pins so I don't have to post common questions.
tardy steppe
In what way does sin feel worse than in BfA? saw alot of people say that
rigid wyvern
I think its also stuff likes shrouded suffocation being gone
true ingot
Remove snd and it's not thaaaat bad.
rigid wyvern
I still stand by snd
celest ruin
just add cut to the chase back
main forge
SnD is boring. I guess I rather have that over roll the dice though
brisk flicker
Yo sin homies, bis leg is still execute insignia? I keep hearing it's dashing, but I'm hearing so many different sides now. Can't tell.
balmy condor
zoldyck
brisk flicker
Been Outlaw for so long now that I just don' tknow
balmy condor
yikes
brisk flicker
I thought it's always been insignia, but who knows... I just know Adrenaline Rush
balmy condor
its zold for sure
verbal radish
The pins presently say Dashing > Insignia? I'm not saying this as an answer to the question, but pointing out the potential discrepency in case it needs to be fixed.
balmy condor
2 target its worse
brisk flicker
I mean, I'm all about prog and M+
brisk flicker
Yea, it's huge
tardy steppe
any 220 ilvl sin rogues here that could them me how much ST dps they can consistently keep up?
balmy condor
are there 220 sin rogues?
tardy steppe
Must be some right
rigid wyvern
^
plain thistle
221 here
rigid wyvern
damn son
plain thistle
outlaw 
rigid wyvern
oof
tardy steppe
teeny u play sin?
balmy condor
I'm 212
rigid wyvern
ya im pure sin
plain thistle
brisk flicker
I mean if there are 221 sin rogues, it's because they intentionally gimped themselves throughout all of CN so far in hopes of a buff and they got it
respect
tardy steppe
how much st dps can u 212 guys keep up consistently?
main forge
Nah if they 220... they did progression as outlaw or sub
peak smelt
Do a sim and see.
rigid wyvern
depends on the fight, destroyer my max is 4.2k and sludgefist is 4.4k
stoic idol
tfw u wanted a sin buff and u get one but u dont own any daggers
rigid wyvern
im also a normal scrub so take my damage as you will
tardy steppe
so that will go up flat to like 4,5-4,8 when the buffs go live
hot storm
Sin is almost always the spec blizzard buffs, its their raid wet dream spec
tardy steppe
Thats actually kinda good for ST right
balmy condor
Sin is almost always the spec blizzard buffs, its their raid wet dream spec
nice bait
theorycrafter/community figures
zinc pewter
Time to come home and abandon sub?
rigid wyvern
should have never left you traitor :p
sin is great you get to do bad damage and brag about your parses to all your guildies
tall basalt
can we go back to legion sin
ill even take bfa sin at this point
just let me do damage 
hot storm
Not sure if sub should be abandoned yet, sin is almost always better if its close, even if its the lowest because you can leave all your dots and do mechanics. Subs big downfall is most of the dmg comes in out burst windows so if you have a lot of down time your dmg rots ☹️
teal mountain
exanguinate legion 400%
teal mountain
hell yeah
tardy steppe
Sounds like im going back to rogue after abandoning it for WW
limber lion
Toxic Blade is still in the game, it's just rebranded as Shiv
tall basalt
tiny toxic blade 
rigid wyvern
My only real struggle with sin is figuring out what exactly to do for aoe in m+
balmy condor
multidot
rigid wyvern
so some packs its just FoK -> CT -> FoK -> rupture and its smooth
and other times your just spamming fok hoping for cp
tall basalt
wouldnt speccing more towards crit fix that?
balmy condor
yeh
rigid wyvern
i guess the second thing is opening on packs, do I just garrote as much as possible or should i be cheap shotting for prey on the weak
balmy condor
haste/crit
limber lion
You shouldn't use cheap shot at all. Only use it as a tool to stun something that requires it
Just run Iron Wire in m+
stoic needle
Garotte
rigid wyvern
fair
rigid wyvern
lol
tall basalt
cooldown is too long
balmy condor
nah its just everything is better
rigid wyvern
just kidney for stuns I assume?
limber lion
It's a good spell on sub rogue because they can use it whenever they want
tall basalt
oh wait nvm i was talking about kidney LOL
rigid wyvern
lol
limber lion
Assa requires stealth which is where our biggest hitters are coming from.
Spending gcd's on non-stealth enhanced abilities is a waste of a gcd
tall basalt
i mean, if you have subterfuge you could sneak one in, i suppose
but other than that i dont see a use for cheap shot lol
limber lion
No
rigid wyvern
with subterfuge you are going for more subterfuge garrotes on targets
limber lion
3 targets, you garrote all 3.
tall basalt
yeah, that's my point lol
tall basalt
you're losing a garrote for a stun
limber lion
Literally never
tall basalt
when u can just use kidney
rigid wyvern
understood
limber lion
Only if your kidney is on cooldown or you reaaaaaallly need to cc something, which is unlikely
rigid wyvern
it will continue to sit on my bar for pvp uses only
tall basalt
my personal favorite is letting another class do it
limber lion
Yep
rigid wyvern
tho i havent even been using it there much
tall basalt
kidney shot is probably one of my most used spells in pvp
maybe im trolling but it seems really good
rigid wyvern
oh ya mark into internal bleeding kidney is my generic opener
also stuns are never trolling in pvp lol
limber lion
Kidney Shot and Cheap Shot are essential in pvp
tall basalt
honestly
what if they made the two main bleeds (garrote/rupture) into a %max hp based on your attack power
balmy condor
so like
tall basalt
or half flat dmg/half %maxhp
balmy condor
0.002% per tick?
balmy condor
isn't all damage % max hp damage
tall basalt
is it?
tall basalt
tall basalt
i mean, if you consider the game as a whole then yes
tall basalt
would you guys want a more immersive poison system?
like, being able to mix your own poisons etc
tidal gorge
Laughs in Cold Blood
tender folio
So bois are we back or not ?
fallow notch
I doubt 8% is enough
tall basalt
as a league player, i can tell you often the smallest buffs are the largest
rigid wyvern
laughs in 5 move speed
tender folio
I just want that SS trait from BFA as a legendary
mossy sable
Do you use Shiv on CD if your poisons are up on said target?
fallow notch
Not comperable. Its literally another game. 3800 x 1.08 is still less dmg than what sub and outlaw do
balmy condor
yes
atomic temple
assa rogue still wont be good even with buff
grim canopy
so most of you are NF?
atomic temple
no nf bad
grim canopy
guides say its good
atomic temple
stepsis does no damage on pvp
mossy sable
Kyrian is only option for pvp honestly, IF purely for damage
rigid wyvern
Im night fae
grim canopy
oh i dont like pvp
quasi ledge
Non of your covenants do damage in PvP
strange python
im pickle rick
atomic temple
night fae is better in pve from the statistics
mossy sable
Like NF is good for mobility
misty holly
omg I just saw the wowhead update. Any ideas if that is 8% on top of the 5% we got last month, or is this just the 5% buff being increased up to 8%?
quaint lark
Pins
tender folio
Im Venth
grim canopy
door of shadows is shit
tender folio
idc what the numbers say, i just love the theme and the mog
mossy sable
DoS is shit, Flag is Meh and feels ehh to use, but the story and mog makes up for it
Exactly
grim canopy
it does have a nice aesthetic, which is why i still think locking abilities was a mistake
tender folio
And Bastion is way to bright to be around
verbal sparrow
Yo people, can someone send the recent patch notes where assa got buffed ? For some reason i dont see it anywhere
grim canopy
shoulda made covenents permanent, but pick any skill
unkempt nacelle
sin will be stronger in pve and that has already been discussed here, but it still won't be really viable in pvp unless we get pvp tuning soon that targets the other really strong melee (arms, ww). right now sub's really only strong due to its control and pressure through resets and dances. sin only has one step, no dance, and does sustained pressure in a burst meta. it's pretty useless and that's only why there's 5? above 2100 in 3s across NA/EU.
void pecan
anymore.
unkempt nacelle
assass is my fav spec in the entire game, and the 13% overall damage buffs since SL launch means it sits much comfier than it did before
void pecan
Gotta get me weapons now...
unkempt nacelle
it's going to feel okay in pve, but i just wish it was better in pvp b/c that's my main content
mossy sable
assass is my fav spec in the entire game, and the 13% overall damage buffs since...
Outlaw is mine but I am not good at it rn
And I missed having an alt spec I could play
Cause I do not like Sub
tender folio
Well seems we gotta farm some haste gear now as well
mossy sable
Well Haste is a good stat for Law
So I have been getting it for a while
Also having Sin means I can swap off Law without needing like full sets of dif geare
tender folio
Well I'm playing Sub atm so..
mossy sable
Oof
tender folio
Yeah XD
plush oasis
Where to put sepsis in the sin MA opener? Before, during, or after vanish (MA)?
Guides don't seem to say.
Or maybe in the first MA right after the start.
mossy sable
I have the same but with Flag
plush oasis
Maybe ambush > pot > sepsis > SnD
balmy condor
don't ambush from stealth
plush oasis
I was wondering about that. Ravenholdt said to with MA talented.
plush oasis
I'm guessing it's just garrote from stealth as usual then?
plush oasis
I do see the top (heroic) sin rogue using ambush on the opener. Obviously the log pool isn't that big though.
dense cedar
im jsut happy with the "viability" buff
plush oasis
Maybe just a case of someone with too much gear and zero sin logs to compete with? lol
balmy condor
yep
crimson palm
Wheres navi these days
dense cedar
tho now i also have a reason to do torghast :(
pulsar sluice
isn't double garroting a pvp thing
fathom plume
Is assan better then Outlaw for pvp?
pulsar sluice
yeah these buffs should make assa good
you can setup some nice burst with doomblade
faint dew
is assass viable now?
unkempt nacelle
in pve yes
limber lion
Not yet
tender tinsel
Not really
faint dew
9% wasnt enough you dont think?
balmy condor
:D
balmy condor
no
limber lion
Definitely not
faint dew
but sub is traashshhhhhh shhshshsh shs
unkempt nacelle
the duality of man
tender tinsel
Assa doesn't get buffed, they may be viable later in the xpac when we begin doing more bleed damage
pulsar sluice
i feel like sin will come out on top in certain bosses
where u have to move aroudn n shit
balmy condor
pls don't post bait
pulsar sluice
how is that bait
limber lion
Outlaw for the aoe boys, Sub for the single target boys and Assa for the diehard assa rogue boys.
balmy condor
not you
mr "sin scales" over there
sin will have execute
and cleaves harder than sub
it's viable
just not the best
low girder
might be best rogue spec on m sludge, idk. would be curious to see.
so few logs even now though, will be a bit before people try
drifting cloud
it will scale like everyone else! poggers scaling poggers
balmy condor
pulsar sluice
mo haste mo problems
limber lion
might be best rogue spec on m sludge, idk. would be curious to see.
Don't think it will come even close to Sub on mythic sludgefist. Sub is the second best melee spec in that fight atm. Huge burst windows on demand. Assa doesn't spike as hard.
stoic needle
why do people come in here just to say that sin wont be good even with the buff
limber lion
Why do people ever talk about facts?
stoic needle
get a hobby my dude
delicate bone
the buff is definitely needed and will help, just shitty that they just slapped dmg onto it without fixing what actually needs to be fixed