but outlaw with all the ER anima powers is just bonkers fun
#assassination
steel ridge
balmy condor
yeah I played sin in torg a little
steel ridge
every second gcd is a 20cp finisher
thats just nutty good fun
anyway, i am back to my business, cheers
balmy condor
yup yup
south drum
Is a 220 Grim Codex worth anything? as far as i can tell it's worse than my other trinket
balmy condor
its not bad
uncut schooner
@balmy condor One day it'll be good again :'')
grim hawk
can we beg to blizzard for envenom to refresh slice and dice?
returning player feels bad..
daring pecan
the really old days of sin
I'd much rather have a full rework of the spec to be even more concentrated on one aspect, be ot execute phase or dotting/multi-dotting or whatever
but that gotta wait another few expansions at best 
balmy condor
I thought up what I would do with sin if I had the chance to rework it
There’s a Google doc floating around in this channel somewhere from a couple days ago, if you’re interested in that
daring pecan
I am actually, since I made a similar doc (which is lost by now) around the time of legion
will look it up when Christmas is over and maybe ping you with feedback or just tell you how fun it sounds and how I'd much rather have that than the dry bread we're having now 
ornate gazelle
Is there a link to what legendary slots are best to go for?
spice spire
alpine garden
In a three rogue m0, other two are outlaw, ready to get bodied
spice spire
Turn the tables and body them instead. Show them how alpha you are
I try on raid night, actually impossible some fights
static meteor
Only 5 horde assassination rogues on my server... and I’m the highest m+ rating at 324
dense hearth
Hahaha yikes
spice spire
Yikes
stuck tartan
im too afraid to even look at the stats of my server
spice spire
I’m number 12 on mal’ganis, I barely run keys, literally like 10 total
strange python
Hey guys, is there a way to check out the best assassination rogues? Like I want to see what they are doing so I can try to learn from their builds, stats etc
covert needle
The best assassination rogues went subtlety and outlaw this tier.
spice spire
There’s way to check from stats/specific fights via Warcraft logs. In general, the guys here can analyze your logs and identify any gameplay errors you might have. Papa Whispyr is very good at analyzing
But also yeah, go subtlety or outlaw is best advice
covert needle
The issue with logs will be sample size, though. The majority of sin rogues on logs right now are going to be people trying to hold on to their favorite spec.
spice spire
I mean, I run sin. There’s no reason to run it now. A 90 parse is the equivalent of a 65 or worse from unholy.
You can look at specific logs and see positioning/stats, etc.
That’s more of what I’m saying over “check 75th percentile”
covert needle
Right, I'm not knocking your decision... but you're not really doing it because of "good DPS". You're doing it because you like the spec. And there aren't a lot of people sticking with sin in high level content because of that.
eager bloom
Is sin also bad in pvp?
spice spire
It’s cheesy but the second best spec afaik
leaden plinth
MA shiv vanish vendetta envenom 1 shot
spice spire
^
eager bloom
Haven't tested it but is that combo reliable?
spice spire
Yeah, even with the small nerfs, removing a person from existence is usually a viable strategy. That’s why it’s cheesy, but fine
stoic needle
won't be viable for much longer i dont think as people gear up and get tankier
leaden plinth
just go sub instead
cant see any situation where u wouldnt want to play sub instead of assa
the other way around
spice spire
What legendary should i craft for assasination PVE?
Zoldyck’s insignia in legs is best all around, are you raiding, M+, PVP?
Enjoying the gameplay is the main reason and the sole reason I could see it
stoic needle
Every time I try to just say f it and play assa in spite of the dps meter, I play it for 30 minutes and just get depressed 
My sin is almost 1k dps behind my OL on dummies
gleaming eagle
i craft zoldyck cause its best all around
but if you focus on single target its dashing and for pvp MA
most people go ma so that they can still play suib
sub
uncut schooner
Saying that though even Sub has been smacked pretty hard with nerfs.
dense hearth
So has assa :/
4% overall buff, 50% nerf on the one cheese that made it alright in pvp
uncut schooner
The PvP side is understandable but its kinda undeserved in PvE, Assa needs a helping hand and I fail to see why the nerf to Sub was necessary.
dense hearth
Because sub was doing 10k + dps in opener stun
stoic needle
All they did was nerf the kyrian covenant and it's still bis for pvp
The burst playstyle is destined to die soon anyway soooo
Unless you're talking about the nightstalker thing?
fleet whale
while playing some 2s the burst playstyle is already dying tbh
deft locust
it's definitely struggling already
I've already swapped to a more natural sub build instead of the meme one shot
storm forum
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
low shadow
So do all the sin guides for SL say to just reroll outlaw/sub? 
gleaming eagle
the meme one shot isnt good
i mean its good but sub do it better cause of cold blood
i think sub just has better burst atm
fleet whale
i think he's comparing the meme sub one shot build
gleaming eagle
the shiv envenom with ma?
dense hearth
Wdym do it better because of cold blood
dense hearth
Cant compare cold blood to assa cheese
fleet whale
and sin is ok in pvp prolly not as good as sub
balmy condor
Hey guys, just a quick note, I get that sub/outlaw are better and sins really bad, but the meme of “reroll X lul” kinda gettin old now. If someone’s asking a sin question, let’s all be the nice friendly sin rogues we used to be, and actually answer them yeah? Let’s cool it a little on the trolling and spread some holiday cheer :)
gleaming eagle
cause the burst itself come with a cc @dense hearth
gleaming eagle
and sub cheap shot uses no energy i believe
dense hearth
The burst itself, coldblood is 10% assa cheese is closer to 50%
gleaming eagle
what we need is a good
pvp talent
idk about you guys but i always use system shock and creeping venom + 1 utility whether its smoke or something else
not sure if system shock and creeping venom are any good tbh
storm forum
I think system shock is excellent, creeping is fine, but will reset if you cheap/kidney someone and isn't that great vs casters who will just turret plant
I think smoke bomb is mandatory to take
storm forum
yeah, me too, but sometimes I take maneuver or death from above in the slot too
vital moss
I take Smoke Bomb and System Shock. Third talent is Creeping Venom, Mind Numbing, or Maneuverability depending on match.
storm forum
like vs frost mages
fleet whale
yeah the sprint one is nice
but system shock and bomb are pretty much filled in for a vast majority of matches
like if i'm against a double melee comp, idk if i take bomb in 2s
storm forum
ah that's fair
storm forum
im usually playing 3s rn so im set up for that
fleet whale
i just hate having to use wound, it does such pathetic damage
but you have to take against anyone that can heal
nova dirge
I'm new to WoW. Is there an undisputed best spec and race for rogues? How much does race matter, or is it just aesthetics?
storm forum
how does mortal wounds effect stack? like if I played with a war how would wound poison healing reduction stack with their sharpened blade mortal strike?
gleaming eagle
i miss deadly brew
nova dirge
@fleet whale cool ty
fleet whale
idk, i think the warrior one may override it
since isn't the warrior one more powerful
storm forum
yeah, sharpened is like 50% iirc
which is the most in the game i think
actually fully stacked sin wound poison is 50% too hmmm
vital moss
I believe fully stacked MP Wound Poison is 24%. Warrior MS is 25%, Sharpened is 50%
quasi ledge
It's 24% at 5 stacks in PvP with Master Poisoner
storm forum
thanks
nova dirge
So are assassin rogues better than subtlety rogues for raids and mythic+?
And subtlety rogues are best for pvp because of single target focus?
quasi ledge
No, Sub best for all
nova dirge
O shit really
quasi ledge
Assass still works fine though
surreal sinew
Sub rogues are better than assass in every way.
nova dirge
Gotcha.
surreal sinew
In every content.
nova dirge
Cool, thanks guys.
surreal sinew
Arena. M+. Raid. Pet battles.
daring pecan
Yo Whispyr, read your sin rework, looked pretty cool and interesting. Only thing I'm missing a bit would be... a rework for Vendetta dunno if other people would agree with that though. Feel like having that ability be a cooldown that heavily rewards going for either poison or a bleed build would fit a lot.
balmy condor
ah, that is an idea I didn't consider
I think vendetta is honestly fine
but a bit of flavor like that would be cool
not sure how I would implement that though
maybe bake it into master poisoner
daring pecan
I don't like the current iteration because it's just a damage amp... and Sub does the same thing on a 30 second CD
before Sub was about stacking damage modifiers, I could somewhat agree with it (but honestly never liked it much)
also was thinking that trained hand could somewhat do the same, e.g. give haste per bleed or mastery per poison. haste being nice for aoe as well because of the aoe poison you thought of
honestly really like the whole talent rework in total as well... would wish for something like that for both sin and sub 
fleet whale
there are some cool things about the rework but i'm not a fan of other things
like i don't like the idea of envenom being a talent.
if sin were to get a redesign, i would like it to have more of a bounty hunter like theme
using poisons and other gadgets, and utilizing bleeds to make poisons stronger
stone pilot
Where’s the rework idea posted?
daring pecan
search for links posted by whispyr
safe nacelle
What's the status of Assassination compared to Sub right now? I saw Outlaw was on top again which never gets old....
Would love to be able to play my favorite class again. :/
shy dust
Assassination is very bad
cunning scaffold
tooltip for warrior ms says 50% healing reduction and sharpened increased healing reduction by 50%, which should be 75% healing reduction during sharpened
pearl surge
I started playing a Druid and tbh, Feral seems a lot like Assassination and you can spec to do literally anything.
Actually, pretty sure Feral has better DPS overall. So, possible alternate toon for alting?
bold trail
question... with Master Poisoner and Exanguinate, coupled with Zoldyck... does that wind up making the dots do more damage?
and is that enough to bring Assassin back into relatively decent balance? Or does the sacrifice of blindside/alacrity make those bad choices?
stoic needle
Yes they make the dots do more damage, no it's not enough
Maybe if zoldyck was just a flat 30% extra poison and bleed damage
bold trail
or if Venomous Wounds ticked for more energy?
stoic needle
Yeah VE ticking for more would certainly help
bold trail
Honestly, I feel like if we could do more (i.e. had more energy, be faster and hit more without dumping everything into haste (i.e. go for crit/vers stats and enchants)... that a lot of our problems would be at least better, if not fixed
balmy condor
question... with Master Poisoner and Exanguinate, coupled with Zoldyck... does t...
Exsang is one of the weakest talents on the entire tree
It’s like
Many % worse than alacrity
strange python
I'm trying to stick with Sin, been that way since Milla, but hate feeling a carry. Glad I have understanding friends:)
strange python
Oh I feel ya. Long as I can stay above the tank I raids I'm good. Keys can be a different story sometimes heh.
vital moss
@cunning scaffold MS is 25% in PVP. Sharpen Blade makes MS hit 15% harder and do 50% reduction. It's in the tooltip.
cunning scaffold
@vital moss didnt know there was more hidden pvp scaling going on, but that makes sense
vital moss
It's necessary for balance. 50% MS at all times was nutty back in the day.
The scaling is what makes Sin's improved Wound Poison viable.
cunning scaffold
i just dont like when things dont work as written
cunning scaffold
haha
never bothered me until i played PoE but yeah they hide alot of info from the players in wow
very annoying
cunning scaffold
probably not
vital moss
Didn't it finish in a weird spot where Shiv only affects the final damage on Sepsis, but not all ticks?
cunning scaffold
ive mained sin or fury for 14 years and this is the first time they have both been laughably undertuned
languid bone
Need shrouded suffocation legendary
cunning scaffold
definitely
hollow charm
I think sin's should be allowed to wear 3 legendaries...lol
pearl surge
Actually, I liked how the Sin legs seemed to stack. Rumor has it we may get the ability to wear more later down the road
balmy condor
Yeah, it’s fairly safe to say we’ll use 2 at some point
That + tier sets
Seems good
Exciting to see what’ll happen later in the expansion
Conduit + double legendary + tier set bis lists
Can’t wait
daring pecan
double legendary combinations in pvp
fleet whale
I’m excited to see some previews for 9.1 soon
Excited to see what the next raid may be
ionic hemlock
You guys thinking sin will rise up later in the expansion ? Rather they just gave sin aflat 50% dmg buffs right meow
frail fossil
Unless they give sin some bonker borrowed power i dont think so
Without a aura buff i mean
drifting cosmos
SL starts at 9.1
fleet whale
Depends on what changes come in 9.1
Spriest for example wasn’t that great in BFA launch. But was boosted up significantly with their changes in 8.1
drifting cosmos
Atm we just so far behind is barely playable 
lost a lot motivation cos that
pearl surge
Being fair, though, no class should need Legs and sets to be competitive with those that don't have them.
Honestly, I would prefer if Blizz just split specs into tank/heal/dps/multiuse and simmed them.
A spec should be within 5% of other simmed specs of the same classification. End of story. Rest is rotation etc
balmy condor
Sims don’t reflect reality though
Very difficult to just say “sim it”
Like if sub were 3% worse than sin in sims
You’d never see sub again
Outlaw is within 5% in single target
And they’re stomping
pearl surge
It's Blizzard. They should be doing software QA anyway. They can set up custom automatic testing to reflect multiple scenarios.
And if they already do and we just can't figure it out, they should say so
pearl surge
Here's a question: why do Feral Druids get an AoE swipe and Assassin gets crap?
fleet whale
Well, feral had that aoe swipe in BFA
low girder
in blizzard's eyes, because we get 2 other options, and their other option is going ranged. they like per spec differences.
pearl surge
BM, I think, is more of a multiuse solo spec. MM is pure DPS raid. So, diff categories
pearl surge
I am fine with Hunter as it is
Feral is supposed to be crap but someone posted a raidmeter yesterday that put them in the top half of dps specs
fleet whale
Why is feral supposed to be crap?
Blizz abandoned the whole pure dps classes being better than hybrids long ago
pearl surge
Rephrase: I have read them being placed at C-level
stoic needle
I just don't understand how anyone at blizzard could play current sin and think that it's in any way ok
halcyon grail
Blizzard employees don't actually play wow at all
bold trail
Blizzard employees don't actually play wow at all
well... if they were playing, then they wouldn't have time to code, draw, design, and so forth!
stoic needle
really good haste ring and 200 WPS in the same DoS.... the game even wants me to play sin
idk if I'm just playing poorly or what, but people say you're supposed to pool energy as sin for a big shiv and envenom window, except i can never pool energy because I'm energy starved just keeping up SnD, rupture and garotte? on st
like in order to get off more than one envenom during a shiv i have to let one of those fall off
spice spire
becomes more manageable with higher haste
serene basin
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
stoic needle
Oh really?
stoic needle
Oof and here I thought my dps was a lot lower because I wasn't pooling and capitalizing on shiv
It's just that bad 😔
balmy condor
not using shiv is maybe 4% of your damage or something
that's not using at all vs using it optimally
I'd have to resim for fae
but its actually tiny
stoic needle
That's depressing
balmy condor
yeah, like shiv is important to use
but its not something like symbols
where it actually makes a huge difference if you're using it properly
stoic needle
So it's more to boost the instant poison and maybe poison bomb than trying to get as many fat envenoms as possible
balmy condor
I mean
you definitely should get fat envenoms
its just not as important as you think
agile ermine
is there any world where maldraxxus + assassination spec is good? that bleed seems like a big deal
stoic needle
I have gotten a few chunky ones
balmy condor
sbs is pretty trash damage
stoic needle
I don't think the bleed procs VE right?
spice spire
bone spike was a big deal, in beta unfortunately 😦
balmy condor
I don't think the bleed procs VE right?
it doesn't have any interaction whatsoever
stoic needle
So lame
It's not fair that boomkin get their mastery to boost all the spells cast with convoke but we can't get any sepsis or sbs interactions
balmy condor
sepsis is full buffed by shiv
stoic needle
Oh okay
fleet whale
WPS plus septic shock combo
balmy condor
thats why you shiv after sepsis every time it lines up
fleet whale
get those big sepsis casts
calm dome
Do you cast shiv inside Sepsis or before ?
balmy condor
sepsis doesn't do enough damage for wps + septic
you cast shiv 1 second after if both are available
stoic needle
Even with the shiv interaction night fae isn't hugely ahead of the other covenants for sin?
fleet whale
it's like that for all rogue specs
balmy condor
sepsis is like 5% of your damage
fleet whale
night fae is the easiest to use and Niya gives a nice buff
calm dome
Got a " burst " macro with Vendetta , Orc racial and Sepsis .
So I cast shiv right after the macro ?
stoic needle
At least I don't have to change covenants to be competitive as sin in the far future when they finally buff us
fleet whale
neither do sub or outlaw
balmy condor
Got a " burst " macro with Vendetta , Orc racial and Sepsis .
So I cast shiv rig...
yes
stoic needle
I enjoy the venthyr haste as outlaw when I can actually use it
fleet whale
covenant abilities being underwhelming isn't a sin only thing
stoic needle
It's a nice single target boost
spice spire
I also run venthyr
stoic needle
Well yeah, but I was thinking about it from the standpoint of trying to maximize how much damage you can do as sin period
They really have to get rid of the 2nd GCD
spice spire
I like venthyr it’s very assassination
It bleeds ✅
It provides haste ✅
It does no damage ✅
stoic needle
I got a weakaura that beeps at me when there's 4 seconds left on the buff, and that's made it easy to get it off, but it's still clunky
fleet whale
it's why i like sepsis
just a simple fire and forget, and the spell effect looks pretty cool
for the brief effect that it is
calm dome
yes
Thanks .
On ST , after opening with garrot , SnD : shall I cast my macro AND apply rupture AND Shiv
Or I apply rupture then the macro then Shiv ?
stoic needle
It's really a crime it doesn't give you subterfuge/ns though
stoic needle
fleet whale
i may have gotten rid of all of it
stoic needle
I still keep a few peices for speed set
balmy condor
Thanks .
On ST , after opening with garrot , SnD : shall I cast my macro AND app...
macro sepsis shiv mut rup
stoic needle
But none that have ss on it
fleet whale
so i had a torghast layer 8 run today
with both first steps and jack of all trades
also i'm getting a new mouse tomorrow
calm dome
macro sepsis shiv mut rup
Thanks
fleet whale
so pretty excited
fleet whale
Logitech G502, very good gaming mouse for everything
(personally not a fan of mmo mice)
stoic needle
That one is solid
Idk how to play videogames anymore without the extra buttons on a mmo mouse lol
fleet whale
i mean
stoic needle
I use the steel series rival 500
fleet whale
the g502 still has like 9 extra buttons lol
stoic needle
There's just too many keybinds
fleet whale
and it fits my hand perfectly
stoic needle
Claw grip gang
calm dome
Logitech G502, very good gaming mouse for everything
I have this logitech mouse. Its just perfect.
Plus Corsair K55 keyboard I am super happy with both
stoic needle
It's been crazy tonight
fleet whale
yeah they had the mouse on display at a Target
and when i put it in my hand I was like "i need this"
calm dome
I got big hands and the 502 fits perfectly
fleet whale
upgrade over this just ok corsair mouse
calm dome
I like the ergonomic shape of it and the buttons
fleet whale
corsair Dark core RGB.. comfy mouse but weird in terms of buttons
stoic needle
I like logitech designs, but their software is utter trash and the build quality leaves a bit to be desired
calm dome
So far nothing to complain about
stoic needle
I made the mistake of buying a g pro x keyboard used on ebay and it was a complete dud with horrible chattering issues
Logitech's does that too
calm dome
Damn
fleet whale
never buy tech from ebay
fleet whale
always a huge gamble
stoic needle
But never again peripherals
calm dome
True
fleet whale
i would only buy peripherals or tech from ebay
stoic needle
The logitech gaming software is literally the worst program I have had the misfortune of installing on mh computer
fleet whale
a lot of softwares are kind of bad
calm dome
Tech component must be bought brand new
You never know how the previous owner was using them
Thats my way to go anyway
fleet whale
razer sucks too
stoic needle
Razer isn't much better but I can't live without my Orb weaver/tartarus
Once you go keypad you never go back
fleet whale
the gamepad's razer offers is def their best products
stoic needle
😔
calm dome
Whats your current haste % ?
( back to topic )
calm dome
Damn
fleet whale
my haste is low as shit
stoic needle
It's weird I have haste in quite a few of my slots
fleet whale
11%, have high crit and verse though
stoic needle
I only have like 3 vers/mast slots left
fleet whale
very high verse... a lot of pvp gear
stoic needle
15% vers, 20% crit, 17% mast
calm dome
I was complaining about my 20% haste ...
stoic needle
Way too generalized
calm dome
Bro 11% must be something
fleet whale
idk i don't really feel it
stoic needle
I'll tell you what it is: straight ass
balmy condor
im at 11%
fleet whale
being low or anything
stoic needle
Thank God for the venthyr buff
fleet whale
that is mostly mental
balmy condor
ye but I maintain a haste set
stoic needle
My energy regen feels like ass idk
calm dome
Trust me even at 20% haste my energy regen is shit ans waaaay too slow
calm dome
Vigor all the way
fleet whale
you should be using vigor anyway as assassin
spice spire
are you not running vigor?
calm dome
Agree
stoic needle
Not mfd or deeper?!?
spice spire
^
stoic needle
Well shit
balmy condor
deeper is big trolling
fleet whale
i run vigor in keys and i'm doing just fine
calm dome
MFD in Thorgast for me lol
stoic needle
Oof
balmy condor
in full bis, deeper actually sims within margin
stoic needle
I'm 199.8 lol
balmy condor
but otherwise its just bad
that's margin with dashing energy
not zoldyck
zoldyck makes deeper bad again
stoic needle
Rip
spice spire
so the stars have to align, huh?
fleet whale
also, the energy regen from going from 11% haste to 20% haste
isn't as big as you would think
calm dome
also, the energy regen from going from 11% haste to 20% haste
Agree
Maybe we can see a real difference with 30% +
fleet whale
might be hard to get to 30% haste with SL secondaries
stoic needle
When you can double stack the nadjia passive and the flagellation buff
Sin feels like an actual functioning spec
For 20 seconds
fleet whale
i'm gonna tell ya this
stoic needle
Then you're back to shit
fleet whale
if sin was tuned higher
i can almost guarantee you would not be complaining about this functioning stuff
stoic needle
Fleeting glimpses of viability amongst the darkness
What if they buffed the ticks from VE
10 energy?
More?
fleet whale
i mean i would like that
but the pace is literally slightly faster than what it was in EP
and the spec didn't feel bad back then
low girder
idk why people keep complaining about the speed of the spec
it's literally faster than normal
8.3 was an outlier
spice spire
It’s definitely not the speed, nyalotha put some weird Rose tinted glasses on the spec.
low girder
the problem isn't energy, it's just numbers
stoic needle
I mean either the speed has to go up or the damage had to go up
low girder
like always
spice spire
Abilities just do fuck all damage
stoic needle
One or the other
spice spire
At 199, top damage shouldn’t regularly be melee I feel
stoic needle
Everything feels slow compared to outlaw I guess
It's a real zoomer spec
Warps your perceptions
fleet whale
SnD is the biggest culprit of melee being sin's top damage
remember in BFA melee was like 12% of our dps
calm dome
At 199, top damage shouldn’t regularly be melee I feel
Doesnt matter the ilvl ... melee will always be n°1 damage sources because of the design of Sin atm
low girder
white dmg went up a lot across the board in BfA, SND back just amps that
stoic needle
Did they tune everything around the boost to melee dmg
fleet whale
even lower
it was like 2.5 to 3% in antorus gear
but blizz buffed up auto attack damage in BFA
cause "It's how it used to be"
low girder
yeah there it is, 2.6% on this garothi
stoic needle
Unpruning?
fleet whale
i think it was due to auto attack being an advantage over ranged classes?
like melee would be still be doing damage when not casting
and blizz wanted to make that advantage more pronounced
stoic needle
It almost feels like classic throwbacks kinda killed sin lol
fleet whale
well a lot of the "classic throwbacks" blizz has been doing
stoic needle
Had a hand in it at least
fleet whale
have little reason behind them
they keep doing these "throwbacks"
but without considering the current state of how things are in the game
balmy condor
I mean, I don't like every bit of how sin plays (or else I wouldn't have made a 9 page document on what I want to see from it)
but I think the spec is literally fine
the gameplay is fine
snd isn't bad
I feel like a lot of the perception of "oh this is bad"
stoic needle
I don't need classic throwbacks to enjoy retail tbh
balmy condor
is literally just the damage
fleet whale
i still have issues with SND, but the throwbacks im not a fan of are things like oils/stones, armor kits
are you kidding
i miss the hell out of that list, poison master sin
as it should be
balmy condor
I like oils/stones and kits
low girder
nah just the amount
stoic needle
I don't see anything wrong with that picture
low girder
of shit
balmy condor
I like that damage breakdown as well
stoic needle
I've spent so much goddamn time farming for consumables in classic
low girder
armor kits would be less irritating if they had an aura
stoic needle
The fact that they're so much more accessible in retail is a breath of fresh air
fleet whale
Kingsbane is about 13% of you damage from that breakdown (dot plus the direct hits)
borrowed power that actually had impact...
stoic needle
What are all the stuff towards the bottom, torment the weak, entropic embrace, chaotic darkness
Trinkets?
fleet whale
it was the netherlight crucible
low girder
netherlight crucible things
fleet whale
a system that was in place in antorus
low girder
random extra things attached to relics
fleet whale
it was kind of like an azerite prototype
in fact the UI it used was quite similar too
low girder
extremely similar to soulbinds, actually
although they were 100% locked once you chose, i believe
fleet whale
yeah, but the choices were easy to make
low girder
pretty much
fleet whale
eh, it wasn't really
low girder
the fun part was they were entirely random, even on the same relic
stoic needle
Honestly I'm sad I missed legion
low girder
so you had to go back to check
fleet whale
legion was a fun time
stoic needle
Oh that's kinda yikes
stoic needle
Was it the first time they tried something like that
low girder
"is this relic an upgrade for you?" "uhhhh idk lemme hearth"
stoic needle
Lmao
fleet whale
i got lucky with my relics for sin
all three of them had the poison damage increase
and either mut crit or envenom damage
low girder
oh right they were gonna make the secondary trait on every relic entirely RNG
lmfao
i forgot about that
fleet whale
what i thought was funny about legion
antorus mythic gear was 960 ilvl
i was 970 when the tier ended...
didn't kill a single mythic boss lol
low girder
i think i ended at like 982 or something
low girder
jk 975
fleet whale
it was kind of hard getting to 980
fleet whale
i think his ring may have gave mastery so that was ok
stoic needle
Rofl
low girder
oh ye i'm wearing that
fleet whale
but yeah his trinket was bis, was lucky to get it on our first normal kill
stoic needle
I'm glad that titanforging only happens on world quest gear now
fleet whale
titanforging doesn't happen at all in sl
low girder
i went through and literally all but 2 pieces are wf or socketed
in this log
all of my tier
stoic needle
But I have had a few peices of gear from quests upgrade from the ilvl that's listed
fleet whale
closest thing we have to TF is questing gear being boosted to epic quality
low girder
f
fleet whale
ironcially
master assassin woudl be a bad trait for us these days
since assassin is all about vanish and vendetta syncing
low girder
wait i literally had 3x master assassin 3x master alchemist relics
jesus christ
my rng
fleet whale
let me check what i had
i had three times balanced blades and 3 times Master alchemist
all my mut's were like 4 cp muts lol
low girder
lol
strange python
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
outer lodge
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
limber dagger
do legendaries in torghast have 100% dropchance?
shut garnet
yes
limber dagger
i didnt get it after running floor 3 for zoldycks
shut garnet
they come from specific wings sir
so maybe the wing from which zoldyck drops isnt available this week?
also if you press shift+j, go to powers and hover over zoldyck, im fairly sure it should say "drops from X layer" also
might be 3 or 4, idk
limber dagger
yea it should be righ tho
shut garnet
so obviously it's 100% drop, but if you do it on layer 4 or 5
if you've done 3 runs on layer 1 2 3 then yea ur not gonna get it xd
shut garnet
when you say floor
you mean layer, right?
like are you queueing for layer 3/4 and doing all 6 floors?
shut garnet
and you looted the boss?
limber dagger
yes got the soul ash
shut garnet
and what wing did you do?
limber dagger
dont know what its called in englihs
but its the same name as the one that is written on zoldycks
shut garnet
u sure? just double check
if not, as dumb as it sounds, check ur mail/bags
u might already have it if its not dropping
limber dagger
the amount of soulash i got is thee amount you get from a layer 3 run
got no mail
dense hearth
Have you done the legendary quests?
Finding Key and whatnot
I did 4 mythic ToP and 20 hcs before i realized i was mentally challenged
limber dagger
uhm not sure, why does it matter? i have a different legendary drop on me already
dense hearth
You cant have it drop before you do most of the quest chain
Just gotta go kill the guy in the maw and deliver Q
Then legos can drop
limber dagger
but i have a different legendary already?
limber dagger
wtf
north pewter
Merry Christmas to my fellow stubborn mofuggas who refuse to play another spec 😂😂
Or whatever holiday you might be in rn
calm dome
Merry Christmas Assasin brother
dense hearth
primal zinc
merry x mas to the best specc in shadowlands!!!! (i know its not but some mental boost at least w/o nerfs 😛 )
balmy condor
:) merry Christmas
drifting imp
I mean if you look at the dps meters upside down, then we are the best 
merry Christmas
vestal wren
on the bright side, assassination is not the absolute last
real bay
make sin great again 2021
frail fossil
Sin would be good if 3 of it's legendaries were baseline
balmy condor
I actually think sin would suffer more if 3 legendaries were baseline
royal lantern
is more suffering even possible?
i thought sin is allready balls deep inside the maw
stoic needle
Doomblade baseline would be fun
balmy condor
Rogue legendaries are pretty low impact
And having 3 of them, which won’t interact too much
stoic needle
Idk about 3
stoic needle
But doomblade is the type of synergy I'd like to see in sin
frail fossil
Mostly said it cuz i want to see zoldyck, doomblade and dashing together xd
All them bleeds man
astral tendon
Hey guys, been wondering: is night fae better than kyrian in m+ , and if so why ?
If so are their souldbinds so much better than kyrians?
Does sepsis still not empower garrote?
balmy condor
They’re both close, until night fae gets the last row of soulbinds, which are very strong
Sepsis doesn’t empower anything, correct
frail fossil
sepsis would've been big if it gave subterfuge garrote tho
vestal wren
i think kyrian might be even with last row better in st
because the sim does assume that the boss stays in the "poison bomb" (burrs) procs what might not be the case in raid
balmy condor
First strike pretty gud though in m+
royal lantern
because the sim does assume that the boss stays in the "poison bomb" (burrs) pr...
w8, burs is something on the ground?
i thought its a dot
vestal wren
burrs is iirc like poison bomb
royal lantern
why does blizzard wanna give me PTSD lol
vestal wren
royal lantern
3rogues in the raid
who is the highest dps?
the one with the most optimized gear?
vestal wren
i mean, i am exaggerating that movement has a high impact
vestal wren
but if kyrian is like 1% ahead, i don't think you will see a diffrence in logs
the op trait for night fae is still first strike that could be rly nice if blizz does not change it
strange python
Does the max level Shiv incrase the damage of sepsis?
vestal wren
i think it does, but would need to double check it
stuck tartan
Does the max level Shiv incrase the damage of sepsis?
Both stances
strange python
I do not understand what you meant by taht
as in, both not max level and max level?
balmy condor
sepsis is 2 parts
the dot
and the hit at the end
shiv nature damage buff affects both
strange python
ah i see
calm verge
any changes with sin recently?
balmy condor
5% aura buff 2 weeks ago
balmy condor
that's probably all we're gonna see till next raid
calm verge
Guess I'll keep playing outlaw then.
I was going to get the Master Assassin legendary created, but I'll hold off.
unborn flint
anyone know of doomblade works in arenas now ? people were saying it was bugged
balmy condor
MA is only really for pvp, or low keys in sub
balmy condor
anyone know of doomblade works in arenas now ? people were saying it was bugged
haven't heard of that, but you can ask the #pvp guys
calm verge
Didn't know that. I was just going off of WowHead.
balmy condor
yeah idk
unborn flint
everyone plays sub there so i thought was gonna have more luck here lol
balmy condor
a lot of people think MA is really giga
and its just not
this channel is omega dead man lmao
pve sin rogue channel
good fucking luck
unborn flint
sadness 😦
calm verge
Whispyr are you still playing sin then?
balmy condor
god no
unborn flint
i still play it cuz its fun...i mean its not THAAAAT bad
calm verge
I can barely out dps the tank
calm verge
^
balmy condor
which is most of what I push
calm verge
I get lucky if I out dps tank.
raw tusk
I wish it was better cause i like bouncing around specs and assasin was fun
unborn flint
doesnt really need rework tho , just buffed up numbers
frail fossil
thing is
in bfa like sin's shortcoming were basically made irrelevant cuz they had bonker borrowed power
now they took them away
and added nothing
which is just feelsbad
raw tusk
I think they'll buff it later in the xpac
karmic flame
So on a scale of 1-10 how rough are mythic 10s for assassin rogues lol
balmy condor
rough in what way
royal lantern
2
stuck tartan
the first checkpoint for doing a mythic 10 on sin rogue
karmic flame
Like tank\ random unholy throwing out damage charts and telling you to neck yourseld
stuck tartan
is the group inviting you in the first place
royal lantern
when 10 is mm hunter and 0 is "anal with no lube"
balmy condor
pi squared over 4
royal lantern
sin is a 2
karmic flame
Just for kicks i did mythic 2s and got a 5 minute rant from the moonkin about how i should kms for having low dps xD
balmy condor
sounds like the internet
royal lantern
fotm rollers are dickheads
karmic flame
Im just curious what 10s are going to be like
balmy condor
yeah
royal lantern
unless you are a unholy, mage hunter or druid
balmy condor
get some friends and a guild
royal lantern
thats how it is 🙂
frail fossil
i mean dude, a hunter told me i was in his schindler list and proceeded to be anti semitic out of nowhere cuz i got meleed by spiteful once
karmic flame
I use my frost dk and my own keys for 11+ but right now Im more fixated on my assassin rogue. I keep getting asked to switch and I say no -shrug-
frail fossil
it's just
the internet
like some people are just awful to be around and toxic, and it' sad but u gotta deal with it and do ur own thing
karmic flame
Sounds like my assassin rogue is just going to have to stricly premade and guild raid then.
frail fossil
playing sin in high is keys is kinda griefing tho
karmic flame
Im largely doing it because I really feel like there's going to be a turn around eventually. And when that happens my 235 assassin leggo is going to be leagues ahead when everyone tries to fomo switch
royal lantern
fotm switchers almost all suck anyway
balmy condor
frail fossil
Im largely doing it because I really feel like there's going to be a turn around...
i mean
weirdchamp tbf
karmic flame
And subtlety just felt like aids. Outlaw is alright and decent.
royal lantern
you can be 80%sure that almost all mm hhunters in your groups
will do 0 dmg outside of wild spirits
cus they have no clue what they are doing
but wild spirits go brrrr, i do big dps, and 1,8k aoe outside of it
frail fossil
like sin wont get good out of nowhere until they get a decent buff
which is prolly gonna happen next patch
where 235 legendaries rank will probaby go up
so like, i dont think playing sin is worth ngl
royal lantern
like sin wont get good out of nowhere until they get a decent buff
bruh, people everywhere act like as if sub is one of the top specs
when in reality its like
decent
frail fossil
i meant sin my god
royal lantern
xD
frail fossil
but that is true
karmic flame
They probably could be getting a buff next patch
royal lantern
"sub is good? its decent at best lol"
frail fossil
like i wouldn't advise u to start playing sin cuz they can get a buff in like 5 months
like, unless u fucking love sin and hate other specs
switch specs
karmic flame
Or i could just grab a sword and go outlaw for a bit with a 190 leggo.
karmic flame
Cant wait until they give WoW the hearthstone treatment
frail fossil
cuz like, even before the mythci raid it was clear boomkin and hunters were bonkers
frail fossil
and they hit it with like 1% nerf
so i wouldn't trust blizz to do like good sin tuning tbf
raw tusk
What do you guys think sin needs to be viable
karmic flame
But if it makes you guys feel any better. My 200+ ilvl frost dk gets declined from mythic 3s that I've timed 10s on lol.
low girder
What do you guys think sin needs to be viable
In keys? Actual borrowed power support
In raids, just another numbers buff
karmic flame
I feel like the only time as hurts is during shiv vendetta sepsis combo and then once that's done you're useless. The more depressing part? That opening isn't even strong. My Frost DK can obliterate three times for the same damage. Not including breath.
But, overall? I feel lile a lot of the damage we did single target is lost now that mutilate doesnt do additional damage. We're missing a vendetta poison. We also lost like . . . double damage from echoing bladed AoE. I think a good change would be giving Vendetta a dot. Potentially make shiv amplify bleed damage. I don't know if shiv amplifies trinkets? Otherwise they probably need another flat 5% damage buff. Just myho.
main forge
Bake in Shrouded Suff and/or Double Dose.
balmy condor
trinkets are not amplified
karmic flame
Double dose would help a lot.
main forge
We would be fine, but our legendary power does not equal losing corruption/azerite/essence, and conduits don't seem to be the buff like those were.
karmic flame
If vendetta got a nature dot and double dose existed. I imagine that would change the game by a pretty significant margin.
main forge
vendetta doesn't need anything else
Need depth elsewhere, like SnD or something.
I have been playing sub much more lately... And the depth sub has for cooldown usage and all that is much greater than Sin.
karmic flame
Isnt assassin supposed be very meat and potato like bm hunger
stuck tartan
nah, there's no spec like bm hunter
but yeah, sin is supposed to be the easiest of the three
low girder
nah, there's no spec like bm hunter
Havoc
stuck tartan
true, true
low girder
Honestly sin is the same difficulty level as bm
At this point
Only difference is infinite mobility
unborn flint
sin same dificulty as a class with 2 buttons....wat ?
low girder
Do people actually play bm or just spit out memes? It's the same amount of buttons as sin lol, or was before SnD
unborn flint
not even memeing....outside throwing buffs every now and then literarly 2 buttons...
low girder
And what did sin do outside of dots?
stuck tartan
idk about talents thats why
green isle
Wait for energy 
stuck tartan
biggest tip for playing sin: mute error sounds so you dont listen the energy bitching
balmy condor
yeah bm and sin are literally 3 buttons
low girder
It's just funny to me that I keep hearing it from people who play specs that are just as simple.
Very weird
fleet whale
like even for 80% of sub
low girder
(sub isn't much harder also)
fleet whale
you're spamming two buttons lol
stuck tartan
sub its two buttons
low girder
There's probably more buttons for sin now with snd and baseline tb in shiv, but also I haven't played bm in SL
And neither does anyone else
Lol
low girder
Everyone is MM now
stuck tartan
I play sin too, but my hunter is MM
good thing I liked the spec even before
fuck having pets tbh
green isle
Idk why people even hate on easy specs, who cares
I liked sin in bfa raids because it had low apm, just chill and play the game
stuck tartan
fury was one of the popular specs and it was because its simple lol
green isle
Its often shadow priests as well
fleet whale
shadow priests are by far the loudest of any spec in the game
green isle
"im playing chopin on piano and ur just pressing two buttons to outdps me"
unborn flint
because its frustrating to put so much effort for results other classes use 2 buttons for
green isle
If your fun is being reduced because of that i wonder why they play
No reason to take it out on other people
unborn flint
i am not saying its ok they do that but its why they do it xD
clever totem
"im playing chopin on piano and ur just pressing two buttons to outdps me"
lmao
knotty spruce
yo can people send action bars and stuff im new to this whole thing
i got dominos installed
and im undead
anything helps :)))
balmy condor
use whatever is comfortable to you
keybinds and even UI's are all super personalized
knotty spruce
ye but i need to see what abilities to use
like
i just need examples i dont want to fully copy them,
knotty spruce
:))
knotty spruce
yayya
balmy condor
distract, blind, sap, and cheap shot are on a different bar
but those are also bound
balmy condor
I use elvui for my action bars
knotty spruce
ty 🙂
pearl surge
Get a G600, it will change your life
dreamy jungle
Anyone knows if there will be any buffs to assassination in future, this sepc is just low everywhere in dps
Outlaw pisses me off because of the roll the bones random shit mechanic and sub is just boring
balmy condor
we don't think so
stoic needle
Rival 500 > g600
dreamy jungle
:(
gritty solstice
balmy condor
yes
hasty acorn
is assassination any good I love the bleed style but I heard they are struggling at the moment sorry I’m fairly new to rogue and behind due just coming home from deployment. Do u think with the resent buff they are any good or with more end game haste stats they will be reluctant or is outlaw still better.
hasty acorn
So go outlaw lol ?
balmy condor
ye
dreamy jungle
Y good luck with roll the bones
hasty acorn
Is sub hard ? I’ve always played assassin
dreamy jungle
Dumbest mechanic that was ever implented in wow
hasty acorn
They should have put roll bones as a rng roll system off auto attack price
Procs
So it does it on its own
dreamy jungle
Nah that would've been even worse
Roll the bones let's you reroll at least
Auto procs would make you stay with shit buffs
Longer
frail fossil
Roll the bones is fine
people are being overdramatic
OL is fun
Sub is fun too
try both, play what u prefer
hasty acorn
just wondering but when i hit 60 do any of yall mind helping me gear up before re-deployment so i can enjoy it a bit before they ship my ass like a can of tuna
pearl surge
Hit the AH if you have a bit of money, you can buy 151 and 168 right off the bat
fleet carbon
If you have homies who've been playing you can get them to help with the crafter's mark IIs
dreamy jungle
@frail fossil roll the bones may become OK once you have those 2 conduits that improve it but the dmg wank is so big sometimes. Last raid I had 3.7k on artifice with good rolls with bad ones I had 3.1k
And that's something I don't like, dmg decided by randomness is just stupid, it's your own buff that makes it random no mob or boss mechanic
placid dawn
drifting cosmos
That's their core spec idea tho, "roll the bones"
stoic needle
your damage with "bad rolls" isn't that bad
and you can reroll pretty easily
also it gives you an easy scapegoat to blame when you fuck up
drifting cosmos
calm dome
real bay
it is pretty bad compared to good rolls after good rolls
strange python
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
robust pine
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gritty yoke
bros where are my assa buffs i think blizzard called it on assa for this xpac, getting the sub in bfa treatment
balmy condor
Next patch
gritty yoke
next patch
surely will come soon right guys
leaden plinth
i wanna play assa too
topaz saffron
Staying strong with Sin so far 🥲
leaden plinth
but i think sub is more fun and blizzard cant seem to be able to hold more than 2 specs viable at a time
dense hearth
Unless you are playing in a super serious guild Just roll assa @gritty yoke
gritty yoke
mythic raiding, the usual thing nothing special
but you just cant do assa
the damage is so bad
faint harness
dense hearth
Top 1 assa is roughly same as top 100 sub for most fights
So can be done if you want to
Just more work for less dmg, but if you find assa fun who cares
frail fossil
i hate sub
play outlaw in raid
stoic needle
Ilvl 210 tho
gritty yoke
meh outlaw is yucky and i dont feel the urge to tryhard it, cant compete with the rest of our DPS (DKs, hunters, monks etc) anyways
no weapon either
stoic needle
At least ol and sin both like haste so I can kinda gear them both at the same time
If the game will stop giving me so much mastery gear 
stoic needle
If it wasn't for the conquest ones I'd still have a 184 mh too