assassination

[arctic cove]

and sin is kinda dead but 😛

[stoic needle]

don't make me go to the other channels

This is the sin mains support group

[arctic cove]

yeah im using that one aswell, although its a low lvl one i read its the best one

[stoic needle]

I really like the way that you get cooldown reduction on all of your good stuff including vanish just by doing your rotation, so I get the chance to use MA more often

[dreamy jungle]

what would be the best convenant for sin ? atm

[arctic cove]

i got like 3 outlaw legendarys also but im waiting for sin buff 😦

[balmy condor]

fae and kyrian are the "best"

but they're all close

and have their place

a lot of top raiding rogues go necro for a trait from emeni

venthyr is really the only one that people don't use

[dreamy jungle]

what does this trait do ?

[arctic cove]

@balmy condor what legendaries have u crafted?

[balmy condor]

MA

[arctic cove]

and youre playing sub atm?

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=342156/lead-by-example

[balmy condor]

yes

[arctic cove]

which one you going for next? akali?

[balmy condor]

finality

[arctic cove]

ahhh

you gonna craft it as soon asyou get it?

[stoic needle]

I think venthyr is really underrated considering how good haste is for us

[arctic cove]

i feel like if I craft a law/sub legendary then im fucked if i want to play sin

[balmy condor]

I don't think I'm going to craft akaari until I have MA, finality, and probably zoldyck, at rank 4

[stoic needle]

I don't think so, especially if you don't upgrade it much

[arctic cove]

i just got MA rank 1 atm

[stoic needle]

I think akaaris is a bit of a bait. The performance gap doesn't justify the soul ash cost

Same here

[balmy condor]

I agree

[arctic cove]

im thinking of crafting Celerity for outlaw

but im not sure if i should lol

WHAT IF sin bcomes top spec

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna do it

[balmy condor]

it won't

[arctic cove]

[balmy condor]

you don't have to worry

[arctic cove]

aw

[stoic needle]

You can always leave celerity at lvl 1 or 2

[knotty bear]

i too have strayed from the path and am playing outlaw

[stoic needle]

[arctic cove]

😦

yeah i guess ill do that osh

need to finish my torghast tho

kinda hard LUL

[stoic needle]

I think I'll craft lvl 2 celerity tomorrow, and just sit on that and lvl 1 MA for a few weeks and see if they do any more changes

If they don't then I'll just keep upgrading celerity I guess

[arctic cove]

can you do lvl2 cel

with this weeks torghast?

even if u crafted MA already?

[stoic needle]

Have to wait until tomorrow and do 2 lvl 6 but yeah

[arctic cove]

ah after next reset

yeah

[stoic needle]

I have ~1300 ash after lvl 1 MA

You get about 960 a week, and need 2000 for a lvl 2

[arctic cove]

i got 640 i really need to finish this weeks before reset tomorrow

torghast has been kinda rough ngl

[stoic needle]

I've had to get carried through a lot of it :(

[arctic cove]

with the right powers as subtley it can work cuz u do so much dmg

[hybrid crystal]

"Subtlety PvP changes and Rogue buffs are coming via hotfix soon."?

[stoic needle]

Bless my guildmates

[arctic cove]

yeah i need to duo it aswell

[stoic needle]

I actually find assassination better than sub for torghast

[arctic cove]

really?

sub so much dmg

[balmy condor]

yeah that's really weird

[arctic cove]

with the right powers u slaughter some of the bosses

[stoic needle]

If you go master poisoner and get stuff to boost your leech + some defensives you're unkillble

[arctic cove]

i might actually have to change to sub just for torghast, im not sure how good outlaw is in there

[stoic needle]

And sin can do a lot of damage too, the same powers that make sub do a lot of damage make sin do a lot of damage too. I was hitting 15k envenoms at the end of my last run

[arctic cove]

hmm i see

[stoic needle]

You have to kite a lot more

[balmy condor]

15k

[arctic cove]

ill give outlaw a try in ghast and see how it works =d

[balmy condor]

boy my shadowstrikes are critting for 20

[hybrid crystal]

😄

[balmy condor]

and you're telling me your ENVENOMS are doing 15k?

[knotty bear]

just be kyrian 🙂

[hybrid crystal]

wait why am i laughing that's

[arctic cove]

do you guys go into torghast with ST talents or aoe?

[stoic needle]

That was non-crit, it was over 50 when they crit

You can swap talents before every boss in the bubble

And you should

[arctic cove]

ahhh

well brb gotta finish my gast so i can craft legendary

[vale quest]

uh............did they forget a 0 in that 5% buff

cause...

Actually. If they buffed every skill by 5%, that's 5% to mutliate, 5% to rupture, 5% to envenom. the result is atually %15 dps increse

[balmy condor]

.....what?

[drifting cloud]

its big brain time

[balmy condor]

apparently they just give everyone numbers on their keyboard

[vale quest]

if you apply quantum math Assassin can be good next week

a chance

[warm peak]

big brain

I heard if you set your details to sort by ascending, assa is top dps

[fallow otter]

Force multi is rip nooo

[balmy condor]

deserved

should've been rip 2 weeks ago

[fallow otter]

It ain't exactly breaking sound barriers but is better being nerfed

I literally just hit the gear level for it to not be as good as celestial now, so makes no difference to me except that I have more hp now lol

[frail birch]

Guildies: "YOOOO did you see the Assassination buff?? Isn't that your favorite spec? Dude poggies!"

Me: "yeah dude hahah pog...."

[raw tusk]

where do you guys think assas is gonna sit dps wise after the buff?

[balmy condor]

5% higher than it was before

[raw tusk]

well played so still not great?

[balmy condor]

yes, it's still going to be an awful, spec, towards the bottom of the meters, and there is a pin on the subject by seli

[raw tusk]

gotcha. i miss the spec im hoping they do more

[kind zodiac]

when they gonne remove SnD for assa?

[balmy condor]

hopefully they won't

[dry rover]

im doing my final level - 59- as assassination instead of subtlety

the ttk for regular mobs is like 15 seconds

vs sub's... 4

am i doing something wrong, or is the single target version of assassination just in the pit right now?

[balmy condor]

that's sorta how that works for sin, yeah

[dry rover]

that sucks
thematically i love assassin so much more than subtlety

[balmy condor]

with MA you can do ambush things and envenom and hope its enough

but the damage is definitely not there

[dry rover]

Sub feels better than assassin for literally every single thing except for sustained cleave

[frail birch]

Welcome to Shadowlands Sin. Depression hotline is in the pins.

[dry rover]

😢

like if i stacked mastery, would it even be close to viable for single target or for pvp

or do the poisons and bleeds just to jackshit hahahah

[frail birch]

The latter

[dry rover]

i dont remmeber ever struggling to kill something while levelling as much as i am right now as assassin - it feels like classic lol

oh well, guessi m a sub rogue then

[grim mason]

ooof bye bye sub

Kyrian uselss now

[hollow escarp]

[dry rover]

LMAO

[frail birch]

WAIT WHAT

[dry rover]

im confused tho

it's 12% dmaage increase

[hollow escarp]

like why?

[plain thistle]

😂

pvp maybe

[grim mason]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23580183/hotfixes-december-14-2020

[balmy condor]

nah

that seems legit

[grim mason]

lmaao

[balmy condor]

hopefully its a pvp-only change and they fucked the tooltip

we don't use it in pve anyway

[grim mason]

what happens when we all get gear?

[balmy condor]

so its kinda whatever

[hollow escarp]

that as well

[grim mason]

nah thats not pvp only 😦

[dry rover]

so basically, assassin is still useless, but sub is less op now

wewlad

[balmy condor]

that's why I said "hopefully its a pvp-only change and they fucked the tooltip"

[hollow escarp]

any rank 1 parsers on sin?

[balmy condor]

regardless though

funny change

doesn't affect us in any way in pve

I sleep

they could remove nightstalker entirely and replace it with the Coming Soon talent placeholder from beta builds

and I would literally not even bat an eye

[grim mason]

lol

It feels like a frantic change tho

[balmy condor]

nightstalker is such a janky trash talent dude

[hollow escarp]

replace Nightstalker with Shrouded Suffocation

I remember playing Nightstalker in Legion

[balmy condor]

this is the most troll thing I've heard

[lofty leaf]

wait wait, the only sin hotfix is a nerf?

[finite oxide]

I don't see the 5% buff in the dec 14 hotfixes list, am I blind

[lofty leaf]

what is that shit lol

[hollow escarp]

also Nightstalker is good for farming mounts in old dungeons

[balmy condor]

not a hotfix :)

the buff is just a buff

the hotfixes are hotfixes

[finite oxide]

oh

[lofty leaf]

is there another 5% buff then?

[finite oxide]

I've swapped to Outlaw but already miss sin :(

[lofty leaf]

on some other list of changes somewhere

[dry rover]

does the hidden blades talent, when stacked to 20, make it do enough to justify its use on a signle target?

[hollow escarp]

probably not

[dry rover]

so its not even worth weaving into a rotation when clearing white mobs?

[hollow escarp]

I would use it if you are stuck with it in M+ though

especially if it deals more damage than Mutilate

[dry rover]

thats what im asking haha

[hollow escarp]

and if the boss is not about to die

[dry rover]

like if im just doing world content

and wanna increase my ttk

is hidden blades gonn help with that?"

or is it not worth the gcd

[balmy condor]

Yes, you cast fok at 19+

[dry rover]

like im switching to venom rush and master poisoner just to try to min my ttk

thx @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t run HB in any circumstance tho

[dry rover]

world content

[balmy condor]

Any circumstance

[hollow escarp]

CT might be better

actually, it is better

[dry rover]

jeez its 40 seconds to stack

not 20

yea bugger that

[balmy condor]

PB is also better

[dry rover]

yea sticking with pb

might go internal bleeding as well

since we have awful recovery for world content

[echo gust]

Are there updates to damage and sims?

[balmy condor]

I’m updating the bis list to reflect new numbers tomorrow

[echo gust]

Looks like sin is doing 5k sims

[balmy condor]

Otherwise, I think fuu’s is updating tomorrow

[echo gust]

That looks competitive to me

Its in pinned

[balmy condor]

Oh

Yeah, it’s not

[echo gust]

Why?

[balmy condor]

Subs sitting at 6800 with the same sims

[echo gust]

Oh. Well. :/

Guess its back to outlaw until 10% aura buff

[dry rover]

ewwy
cant stand the outlaw gameplay

[echo gust]

Sub is too simple

[dry rover]

outlaw you have zero downtime, but nothing feels like it actually does anything

same problem as fury warrior

imo

[echo gust]

Sin has shiv window. Feels amazing as nf

Sub has literally sd/symbol

[dry rover]

i went maldraxxus

nothing feels amazing

i feel like a dumbass

[echo gust]

F

[dry rover]

i thought itd be sick to stack it with all of assassins bleeds

but its a tiny tick every 3 seconds

probs worst covenant ability in the game out of all classes

[balmy condor]

Most of limit and echo’s rogues are necro

And seli is necro and swears by it

[faint harness]

doubt we will see many rogues in wf race

[balmy condor]

I’m not convinced

[faint harness]

so what they play is prob whatever

[dry rover]

probs for the "lead by example" more than the bleed itself, right?

[hollow escarp]

I don't think they went necro for covenant ability though

[balmy condor]

Also true

[hollow escarp]

most likely for soulbinds

and conduits

[faint harness]

definitely didnt go necro for the actual spell imo

[balmy condor]

Oh 100%

It’s all LBE

[dry rover]

lead by example is the only way to make it workable

[balmy condor]

And honestly

I think LBE shenanigans

Is a bit bait

But we’ll see I guess

[faint harness]

its 2% mainstat for others

but since the uptime is like

25-30%

how much is it really on avg

that say DW vers wont do the same

[balmy condor]

It’s not even that high

[faint harness]

social butterfly does the same shit

[balmy condor]

It’s a 30 second recharge

[faint harness]

but you dont have to play a dogshit spell

[balmy condor]

And lbe is 5 seconds

[faint harness]

just basing it on logs

after using it for 9 bosses hc

[balmy condor]

It’s like 16% uptime from 1 rogue

[faint harness]

well do you account for resets

on some bosses

[balmy condor]

No, I’m not

[faint harness]

thats where it becomes good imo

like generals

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean it helps

But still yikes imo

[faint harness]

yea i absolutely hate it for m+

as suyb

just dont want to press it

unless its 2-3 target cleave

[balmy condor]

Oh how the mighty fall

Remember when bone spike was heralded as busted op cleave spell

I member

[faint harness]

well i think the fracture mechanic was meant to be there

they jsut couldnt balance it

so they just removed it

[balmy condor]

Ye

[faint harness]

and it became this shit dot ability that deals its dmg way too slow

[dry rover]

if it did the same damage per tick

every one second

itd still be the worst covenant

but at least could potentially be part of the core rotation of ass

[balmy condor]

Infinite dots are always a mess to try and balance imo

[faint harness]

i just dont like the amount of time it needs to be worth using

[balmy condor]

They had that Problem with locks

[steep badger]

i like it in sub when you're between burst windows about to need quick combo points before next window pops

[faint harness]

what is it 250 dmg every 3 seconds or around that time

[steep badger]

super usefull

[dry rover]

yep

which accounts to less than 100dps

[faint harness]

it adds up over the course of a long fight

[dry rover]

not even worth the global

[faint harness]

but for like m+ trash

feels like garbage

[dry rover]

i feel like assassin in bfa wasnt this awful

[faint harness]

ur right

it wasnt

[dry rover]

the only spec that should have its highest damage put into melee attacks is like... frostmage in bfa, or arms warrior

our dots dmg needs to be like.. doubled hahahaha

[balmy condor]

118 dps from internal bleeding?

[dry rover]

White mobs

lvl 59

[balmy condor]

Oh

It’s like a 10 second fight

[faint harness]

melee hits slam now tho with snd

[balmy condor]

Makes sense

Yeah they do

[dry rover]

whats snd

[faint harness]

slice n dice

[dry rover]

ah

i dont even use that for white mobs

and thats the other thing - sub has the QoL of not having to activate slice n dice

[steep badger]

?

[dry rover]

why does assassination not get any of the QoL that sub gets haha

[faint harness]

you mean premed that is still semibugged

[balmy condor]

Snd is our strongest finisher btw

I would suggest using it

[finite oxide]

SnD at least gives us something to do with our CP that isn't envenom

so single target is less...braindead

[dry rover]

for anything but grey mobs i will of course

[finite oxide]

I miss envenom clipping tbh

[dry rover]

i hate maintenance spells

they feel like lazy design

[faint harness]

why

should every class/spec be a DH

[chilly marsh]

[With regional restarts] Nightstalker (Talent) increases damage dealt while Stealth is active by 25% (was 50%).

[dry rover]

lol

[chilly marsh]

LOL

[dry rover]

dh is a classic example

of blizz not understanding the problem with the class

[finite oxide]

I like rupture much better as a maintenance spell because I can feel it more than I feel SnD. Rupture feels like I get bonus energy. SnD feels like if I don't press it I get stuck in molasses

[dry rover]

coz in shadowlands they literally gave htem a maintenance spell as a fourth button

[chilly marsh]

we really needed that nerf

[dry rover]

so they went from being braindead, to being braindead with a maintenance spell

[balmy condor]

It’s a pvp oriented nerf

[faint harness]

DH is an example of a spec that doesnt have anything but spending and building going for it. No CPs, no maintenance, just low cd press when it lights up shit

[balmy condor]

Does nothing in pve

[dry rover]

soz i should clarify,

[balmy condor]

Nightstalker is a dead talent in pve

[dry rover]

i love maintenance spells that are dots

[fleet anchor]

I mean since the Sub one says "in PvP"

[steep badger]

guessing vanish >> env was doing big numbers?

[fleet anchor]

I'm hoping it's a typo

[dry rover]

i hate maintenance spells as self-buffs

[fleet anchor]

And they are only changing NS in PvP for Assassination also

[dry rover]

"every 36 seconds, recast slice n dice" is so fkn boring

[faint harness]

would be strange to nerf NS for pve no?

when its not even used at 50%

[balmy condor]

That’s what I said but it fell on deaf ears

[chilly marsh]

hope so

[hybrid crystal]

[chilly marsh]

because it should say IN PVP

[faint harness]

the only good thing that came out of these pvp nerfs is that i dont have to feel shit about playing non-kyrian in pvp

[dry rover]

hahaha

tfw maldraxxus assassination pvp rogue

[faint harness]

bonespike is so bad for pvp

not even fun

when ur entire dmg profile is around burst dmg

and you have this shit dot

feels way out of place

[balmy condor]

At least they can’t get rid of it

Right

[dry rover]

assassination could be this tricky sustained damage pvp spec

[faint harness]

yep

stuck with it forever

[dry rover]

where you jump in and out of combat reapplying bleeds

[balmy condor]

Yep mald-raxxus

[dry rover]

but instead youre just a shittier sub rogue lol

thematically i feel like thats what ass rogues were supposed to be

[faint harness]

you can prob do 3s as bonespike rogue and do nothing but spam bonespike

[dry rover]

put like 9 dots on the enemy in a quick rotation

then haul ass

then jump back to reapply them

rinse and repeat till they die

but the dots do fk all damage

this feels really great

until you realise they all tick for nothing lol

[willow vine]

I miss assass

[calm dome]

So damn true

[lapis dragon]

https://i.imgur.com/yYXKHnj.png

edge of extinction 🙂

[balmy condor]

4 less than survival rip

[normal plover]

how is that ordered

[balmy condor]

In order of dps

[lapis dragon]

https://i.imgur.com/3ZGe6c2.png

with aura buff of 5% we would be somewhere between destro and fury war... so still useless..

[past bramble]

What happened to Sub lol

[dry atlas]

PvP nerfs

[steep badger]

20% nerf to shadowblades, slight nerf to cold blood and kyrian buffs got boomheadshot

in pvp

not that much overall honestly, just enough to make it harder to global people w ma leggo

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor nightstalker nerf got moved into a broad stroke “pvp changes” list

Typo op we can breathe again

[fleet whale]

yeah, cause nerfing nightstalker in pve would make 0 sense lol

[main forge]

so happy... I got a top 100 parse due to the lack of rogues lol

well sin rogues

[strange python]

A lot of aoe fights which sub is not the best on, hence the lower overall raid dps, but sub still performs very well on st

[past bramble]

Makes sense, hence Outlaw performing much better

[mortal scaffold]

I'm going through this channel to try to find an answer but I couldn't find one: I know Sepsis does nature damage but does it count as a poison?

[balmy condor]

No

It only interacts with shiv

[main forge]

"Nightstalker increases damage dealt while Stealth is active by 25% (was 50%)" nerf to the envenom one shot?

[balmy condor]

Ye

[pseudo hamlet]

I am one of the 257 rogues. Damn, feeling proud

[fallow otter]

You do you bro

[tawdry helm]

Same. Amd I feel like that number drop if something doesn't change

[vestal wren]

dratnos did put assassination above DH, Destro, Enh an Frost DK for m+
(source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=319881/shadowlands-dps-rankings-best-dps-for-mythic-season-1)
So he def. knows sth i don't that makes assassination not last 👀

[balmy condor]

well if dratnos said so

[fallow otter]

Is this the guy that was dh main

Coz that means he knows things

[strange python]

hello assa 😂

how is assa rn compared to sub btw

[vestal wren]

as their Shadow Blades cooldown is very well oriented towards single target damage and they don’t need to press it in AoE
<insert doubt emote>

well neverless, i just wanted to cheer you guys up by having somone with higher influence place assassination above dh. As Dh seems rly good in m+

[balmy condor]

YOU ARE ALL COMPLICIT IN THIS SIN

[tawdry helm]

Tbh I mever really cared for playing meta to measure DPS dicks, I play whats fun to me. But when I struggle so much in things like torghast or WQ 😂 give us a break, 5% buff is like throwing a bandage at a guy missing a leg

[strange python]

rofl

Assassination
[With regional restarts] Nightstalker (Talent) increases damage dealt while Stealth is active by 25% (was 50%).

did they really fucking nerf sin

ffs

ugh

[vestal wren]

its pvp

[strange python]

woops

still mad tho haha

[warm olive]

its only due to the one shot envenoms, at least something is happening. i still have hope 🙂

[fallow otter]

Stick to it bro that's the way to do it, but not all people play for the same reason. I enjoy doing the hardest content and the race to do so, I find this part of the game fun

I used to live in arena, sell teams and boosts for in game money etc. Wasn't a fan of pve at all. We all change

[tawdry helm]

Amen brother

[warm olive]

does the covenant switch renown catchup system always work the same, no matter at what point i switch the covenant? (not going back to one i had before, i know that one is a little more complex)

[strange python]

looks like poison is back on the menu boys

master poisoner is simming higher than blindside for me

[lusty mason]

still able to do 20k envenoms after nightstalker nerf?

[balmy condor]

most likely more like 17k

[strange python]

cheapshot, vendetta, darkmoon verocity, ambush (master assassin), rupture, garrote, MFD, kidney, muti, venom

about 40k dmg

[primal zinc]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[sturdy tiger]

Just picked up Assassination, if i have my poisons active, fan of knives will trigger them for the affect right?

like after they have already been applied?

[balmy condor]

fan of knives applies poisons, yes

if you re-apply, they do instant damage

[sturdy tiger]

And it will trigger their damage effect?

Gotcha! thanks!

[balmy condor]

np

[sturdy tiger]

<---Idiot scrub lol

[placid dawn]

what is the darkmoon deck for dps?

[balmy condor]

Voracity

It’s good for sin, decent for outlaw, and pretty mediocre for sub

[digital zodiac]

How is Assass for PVP been? Anyone played that in SL yet?

[balmy condor]

Meh, then very briefly cheesy, and now back to “hm... meh?”

[warm olive]

is envenom buffed by zoldycks 30%? probably not, but i wanted to make sure before i commit to a legendary

[shut garnet]

only poisons and bleeds are buffed

[vale marten]

you sure the nighstalker nerf for assa is only for pvp? cuz on every other line it says when engaged in pvp combat and on that it doesnt

[warm olive]

the nerf will be active for pve as well, but since you play subterfuge, it will be for pvp only, i think that is what ppl here meant

nobody plays nightstalker in pve

[vale marten]

ah ok that makes sense

[warm olive]

thx

[honest rain]

hi did anyone knows how often the legendary essence of bloodfang proccs?

is it like little gusing or is doomblade go for bc of 15% envenom dmg?

[alpine nymph]

Is sin still getitng a 5% buff or has that now been removed? saw it on Dec 11th patch notes, but one from the 14th didn't mention

[stuck merlin]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[main forge]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/771191 yup its still there

the buff is still less damage than getting one of the shitty anima powers in torghast

[old snow]

Does Maim, mangle conduit which increases mutilate dmg by % work with doomblade, or does that % not increase the bleed amount?

[novel arrow]

Anyone know if Doomblade is affected by Necrolord Cov?

[sour citrus]

From what I understand, nightstalker was buffed not nerfed.

[old snow]

no its nerfed from 50% to 25% in pvp

[strange python]

assassination ded spec

pogslapclappers

[bitter drift]

All rogue specs now equally bad

🥲

[vocal cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/perfectly-balanced-thanos-infinity-war-gif-13078930

[sick scarab]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pYZvzomwertMnRxZeeWtpy

aaaa

[fallow otter]

Rip

[real bay]

bruh moment

[sick scarab]

playing sub.. i cry a river LOL

[real bay]

that sim needs like a +10%

atleast

[sick scarab]

will get a 5% !!

[real bay]

15% would put it close to outlaw with same kinda gear I suppose

bruh

[old snow]

honestly the fact that they nerfed nightstalker in pvp for assa gives me hope they will buff us

causr it means even tho there were like 8 people playing it alltogether, they noticed that we exist, and if they can nerf the cheese mby they can also buff us

[violet yacht]

optimistic

[fringe kraken]

yaaa sub got gutted. I can finally play assassination

[bitter drift]

How is Zoldyck Leggo in PvP?

[edgy prairie]

Hey all, I am the maintainer for all 3 rogue specs on WowAnalyzer. I would like to personally apologize to you all for dropping the ball on getting the spec up to date. I will be taking some time over the holidays to get some work put into the specs and bring them up to date.

If you have ANY suggestions on what needs to be done for the Outlaw spec please feel free to post in the Support Channel of WowAnalyzer and tag me or {Spec} Rogue

[drifting imp]

I thought the sub nerfs were just for PvP?

[deep cargo]

they are

[fringe kraken]

not enough impact really as people don't stay low enough for the extra damage to be worth it. Best to go with the vanish reduce cd leggo or Master Assassin

[bitter drift]

Guessing Doomblade not worth until sin gets a damage boost in PvP?

[warped lion]

Hi guys! Lemme ask, srsly, on ur experience for raiding/mythic+, Sin is really this bad on dps? How much are you dpsing? I really don t know if I keep maining my rogue :(

[strange python]

What happened with sub?

[strange python]

?

[bitter drift]

Was dramatizing the sub nerfs

[fringe kraken]

Doomblade isn't bad actually, but for pvp I would just stick to MA or Shadowdust

[bitter drift]

Always been a Sin fan, but feel forced into sub cause the insane burst meta of SL.

[deep cargo]

Sub burst was nerfed, do what you love

[bitter drift]

I think Sin needs a damage buff and I’m fine with Sub having a Kyrian+nightstalker nerf.

[deep cargo]

I think I might play Sin again in arenas, give it a go, always been a fan of Sin in PvP

[bitter drift]

But that nerf hit sin too unfortunately

I think Sin + NF + Doomblade could be a fun setup and can only get buffed from here

[fringe kraken]

Yeah, sin is better in 3's anyways

[plain onyx]

So, where is that 5% buff Ass was gonna get ?

[bitter drift]

It happened last week

You didn’t notice because 5% is basically a joke. Sin needs a 10% damage buff atm.

[balmy condor]

actually going live today with NA resets

[plain onyx]

Yeah, EU here.

[balmy condor]

Those are hotfixes

So you’re getting it tomorrow with your reset then

[strange python]

Best leggo for sin?

[balmy condor]

Overall, zoldyck

[deep cargo]

For PvP as well?

[balmy condor]

PvP lads are going doomblade and MA from what I hear

[fringe kraken]

10% would bring them to the middle of the pack, 5% just makes them last place, but not so far behind everything else lol

[strange python]

Hey someone has to be last place

[ember rover]

10% ability buff is not 10% increase in DPS

[strange python]

Just sucks its us 😐

[ember rover]

Instead of buffing all abilities by a negligeable amount, they should buff key abilities by a fuckton more, like 50% to envenom or 50% to rupture so that you have a niche of 2-4 target cleave

Right now, assa is deader than dead

[strange python]

Does MA snapshot empower subterfuge garrottes?

[balmy condor]

There is no crit snapshotting

[strange python]

Damn that would’ve been sick

[balmy condor]

Only things that Snapshot are the additional damage from nightstalker and subterfuge, and haste values for exsang

[ember rover]

The only snapshot is nighstalker

You can put an empowered rupture with it, for what is worth

[deft oracle]

im a loyal sin, i will never swap to sub!

[balmy condor]

And subterfuge, and exsang, yes

[bitter drift]

Only matter of time until sin beats Sub in pve

Always happens eventually

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t magically happen out of thin air

[bitter drift]

Takes time and balancing

[balmy condor]

We need some love at some point

[bitter drift]

Some of it is related to stats on gear too. Eventually sub burst won’t outshine sin sustain

I give it 3-6 months

[balmy condor]

That’s bait

Sin doesn’t just “become better”

[ember rover]

Isnt it historically the other way around? Assa good at start of expac and then sucks when sub gets gear?

[balmy condor]

Neither of those things are true

It’s entirely based on borrowed power systems breaking something

We’re seeing it now with the removal of SS and EB

[ember rover]

I remember specifically assa being great first 2 tiers of legion then sucking dick for last 2 tiers

[balmy condor]

Antorus sin was really fucking strong

[ember rover]

Bfa didnt have Sub as a spec due to Zul

[balmy condor]

Sub was only around for tomb

[vestal wren]

^

sub was not played for almost 2 xpacs now, the only time it was good was tomb and got quickly buchered

it remained strong in m+ during antorus to get bad in m+ in bfa

for pvp, it even needed buffs to be picked, it was not played initially

and this is with the perception that sub rogue is always the best pvp rogue spec

[gritty spoke]

sub was the pvp spec bc it had reliable control and unrivaled utility and burst windows

they attempted to give it some pve flavor with spooky shadows in legion with some combat mechanics with sd charges and the akaari weaponmaster proc basically

[balmy condor]

[gritty spoke]

yeah

[drifting cloud]

stop farming cringe my man, theres no spec in this game thats a pvp spec

thats not how the game is designed.

[gritty spoke]

i forget what they did to sub for antorus, but i remember swapping to sin because avatar/kj was cancer, and sin had dots and survivability and execute for avatar

[drifting cloud]

sub tier for antorus sucked ass and assa got buffed

[gritty spoke]

sounds about right

i think sin had good interaction with using 2p from the tomb set as well

and you had enough crit where you'd ditch the master assasin shoulders for the vendetta boots

[lofty coral]

am I reading those patch notes correctly, they nerfed one of the assassination talents.....

[deft sparrow]

Sin nightstalker damage increased by 25%

@lofty coral which one?

[lofty coral]

nightstalker

[deft sparrow]

ow fuck! you're right! i read it wrong

i thought they increased to 75% 😦

[lofty coral]

at first I thought ok that is for PVP, but no mention of while in combat with an enemy player

[deft sparrow]

well , that makes the nightstalked talent utterly useless as far as im concerned

[lofty coral]

I get it if its pvp only, but it doesnt look that way. I feel like I am being kicked while im laying on the ground bleeding LOL

[balmy condor]

It’s a pvp change

[deft sparrow]

i'm talented subterfuge anyway

[balmy condor]

Listed under pvp hotfixes

The change doesn’t affect us at all in pve since nightstalker is objectively the worst talent anyway on that row

Even if it were an overall change

[lofty coral]

I agree, and maybe that is why it doesnt say for pvp only like all the other changes do.

[forest bridge]

hey fellow assass rogues ive been here all along so how the fuck do I PVP as one of you

lmao

[deft sparrow]

you don't 😆

try to learn sub for pvp

[vale quest]

and pve

[median aurora]

i mean sub has more control if done better but sin brings consistent rot and power to 2s

[cunning surge]

Well that explains why I've been getting bodied in PvP

[median aurora]

was running it this week in 2s

2.1ish MMR and beating the sub rogues there

just know when to reset and get back ahead

your dots will rot hard if you play properly

vendetta counters their vanish reset

kidney them in dance

you can shut them out very well if you are knowing what to watch for

[edgy prairie]

Hey all, is there anyone who would like to volunteer to go through the Assassination Spec on WoWAnalyzer and write up some things that need to be fixed/added/removed for Assassination Rogue?

[balmy condor]

[edgy prairie]

Would you be willing to fill out a google doc with suggested changes, at your leisure for me? 🙂

[cold rampart]

how strong will the assassination be with the upcoming buffs?

[balmy condor]

Sure thing

[balmy condor]

Still bad

[cold rampart]

srsly??

[balmy condor]

It’s only 5%

[fluid galleon]

need another 10% lol

[balmy condor]

It’s doesn’t change our relevancy at all

[fluid galleon]

snd baseline, other changes

[balmy condor]

Ideally we’d see somewhere 5-8% on top of that and we’d be okay in raids

M+ viability isn’t coming unless they add a borrowed power from the looks of it

[balmy condor]

Snd is baseline

[rancid sparrow]

Sin over Sub in 2's after nerfs?

[fluid galleon]

sorry, passive i meant

pressing snd feels utter garbage as sin

[quaint dragon]

Somebody can explain why they nerf nightstalker xd?

[plain thistle]

pvp

[raven karma]

they cancel the +5% damages buff for sin spec?

[balmy condor]

That’s still happening

[strange python]

No.

[raven karma]

ok, and the nerf nightstalker is only in pvp ?

[balmy condor]

As far as we know, yes

It wouldn’t affect us in pve anyway

Would be a really weird pve nerf

But it actually doesn’t change anything

[arctic cove]

man i just got zoldyck and it makes me want to play sin so bad

[main forge]

nerfs the huge crits you get in torghast with vanish + envenoms

[oak musk]

Do it. Ass rogues are bae

[hollow jungle]

Bae a synonym for trash?

[main forge]

weird way to acronym bottom of charts.

[arctic cove]

yeah im sticking with outlaw for now

[novel dragon]

the assassination nerf was to stop the Skulker trinket + vanish 6 CP Deeper Stratagem Envenoms + crit legendary + nightstalker DPS buff doing 20k instantly to people in PvP

but on the notes it did not specify against enemy players- so idk, sounds like it takes in PvE

[rain peak]

guys a question. are the stats for the Zoldyck Crit / Haste or Haste / Versa?

[strange python]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Those are both fine

[violet oak]

whats best cov for assanintaion

?

[balmy condor]

All close

[violet oak]

what do u use

[balmy condor]

I’m night fae personally

[violet oak]

fair

they are nerfing kyrian right

[balmy condor]

In pvp

[violet oak]

oh

[balmy condor]

There are no pve changes that affect our choice of legendary, covenant, soul bind, or spec

[violet oak]

ok i was gunna do pvp so what cov do u recommend

[balmy condor]

Kyrian or fae

[violet oak]

k

im kyrian

thanks for u help

[balmy condor]

Np

[sand otter]

I miss

This spec

[upbeat mirage]

Me too. Give me another 5% and I'm back.

[sand otter]

ehhhh

i would need to see dungeon performance

its just so nice to change 1 talent and go from single to dungeon slice

[real bay]

i would be fine with assa just being raid viable

dungs i can do as outlaw

[ionic hemlock]

outlaw gear + assassin actually balances out pretty nicely I think too?

[placid dawn]

outlaw uses a bit less haste than sin i think but it should work out decently

the only problem is that you need an outlul weapon

[stoic needle]

Yeah getting a main hand seems to be a struggle

Praying there's one in my vaukt

[ionic hemlock]

True, I got lucky and found a BoE 190 mace the other day and it was better than my pvp daggers so I just kept one dagger for sub, I am hoping there will be a way to make sin a dark horse again and creep up in at least M+

[sand otter]

i changed so i could have an easier time getting into M+s

[ionic hemlock]

I was super excited when bfa sin became a thing with the fok/garrote

[balmy condor]

M+ is the last place you’ll see sin

[ionic hemlock]

Hoping something like that will pop up again lol.

[sand otter]

yeah

[ionic hemlock]

Yeah its why I am sticking to outlaw I think

[sand otter]

im running my own logs now, so i can upload daily

and see how bad i do lol

[arctic cove]

this chat is so wholesome tho, everyone miss sin >P

[sand otter]

i do

im doing "ok" as single target in raids though

[stoic needle]

[sand otter]

but im still learning the spec.

[arctic cove]

im gonna do my first raid as outlaw tomorrow

[sand otter]

i need a mentor lol

[arctic cove]

i tried frist raid as sub

[ionic hemlock]

"sub rogue is nerfed alot . it feels like 30percent damage reduction" "fucking i wanna quit WoW altogether now" seriously did no one really see kyrian nerfs coming ? REALLY? ESPECIALLY pvp?

[stoic needle]

Playing sin in raids alongside sub rogues is legitimately depressing

[arctic cove]

yeah i can imagine, sub was utterly boring in raid

cant say about sin, i have not tried yet

[stoic needle]

Like doing sun king, I'm out here playing as hard as I possibly can and doing shit dps

[arctic cove]

im 50 soulash away from crafting celerity rank1 so thats fun

[stoic needle]

While the sub rogue is half afk spamming the same 2 buttons and dumpstering me

[vital crown]

is that even after the 5% buff?

[sand otter]

is sub really just 2 buttons? lol

[stoic needle]

In aoe it is

[ionic hemlock]

yes

[sand otter]

ooof

[stoic needle]

Shuriken storm > black powder

Like

[ionic hemlock]

in aoe it's SS + BP

[stoic needle]

When you are in a pack of mobs and press fok and get 1 cp

[dim yacht]

sin rogue aoe isnt that much more complicated, but more than 2 buttons i guess lol

[stoic needle]

As sin

[sand otter]

you have to maintain dots

[stoic needle]

And as sub you get 5

[dim yacht]

yeah, i know

[stoic needle]

That makes me want to cry

[sand otter]

dang

[dim yacht]

just want echoing blades back

[sand otter]

i think im going to tough it out

[dim yacht]

T_T

[stoic needle]

They should just make fok give cp based on targets hit

[dim yacht]

same naro, i crafted my zoldycks and im dying on this hill if i have to

[sand otter]

if i can learn law more and more ill have a decent time in M+

[stoic needle]

Its so dumb that it doesn't

[sand otter]

i mean im staying law 😛

[dim yacht]

oh

[arctic cove]

@sand otter yeah im trying to learn law, its actually fun

[stoic needle]

I'm crafting celerity today

[sand otter]

i changed to law while leveling, after seeing how bad sin was

im crafting Cel rank 3 today

[arctic cove]

loooooool

im getting my rank 1 ........

[dim yacht]

ill prob change to sub if i get rank 4 zold and a new sub legendary with still no change

its kinda sad our envenoms hit for less than a subs shadowstrike

[ionic hemlock]

I love ALL the specs so I am super happy no matter what happens but I am worried about being forced to swap covenants for optimization if I ever hit that level

[stoic needle]

I'm not crafting zoldyck untill I see at least another 5%

Swapping covenants for optimization is kinda stupid imo

[dim yacht]

i wanna be like that aeonoan, but try boosting as a sin rogue

see what happens lol

[stoic needle]

It's so much effort for such a small gain

[mossy sable]

I hated sin in BFA cause it was the "Only" Option I was being told for trying to be a more hardcore raider

[arctic cove]

@sand otter with celerity its all about maintaining SnD right?

[dim yacht]

i did it last night thinking i could make it work, i ended up apologising to the tank for being less dps than him and stepping out after the first key to let them find a new dps

[stoic needle]

Unless you're pushing mythic prog you don't need to change covenants

[mossy sable]

Now I miss it cause I am being told I need to only play Sub for stuff

[arctic cove]

@mossy sable i wish i played during BFA lol

[dim yacht]

well outlaw wasnt ideal for raids in bfa, but you could do it even in high end mythic

[stoic needle]

After failing to time 2 5s and getting outdpsed by a tank I vowed never to play sin in keys until they buff it substantially

[sand otter]

Yes

[dim yacht]

just like you could play sin in keys

[mossy sable]

I was and have been an Outlaw main

[sand otter]

you want SnD up 100%

which is easy

[mossy sable]

And I had issues with Sin being so slow feeling

[arctic cove]

5 or 6 combo snd?

[sand otter]

for me its other things i screw up

[mossy sable]

But SnD kinda makes it feel better

[dim yacht]

i honestly really dislike snd

i didnt want another maint

[mossy sable]

Really?

[sand otter]

i mark for death before a pull, SnD and roll teh bones

in M+

[dim yacht]

or at the least give us a way to make snd more world content friendly

[mossy sable]

I still run vigor, even if it's less DPS

[stoic needle]

Mfd is so juicy as outlaw

[dim yacht]

i suppose mfd is prob the way to do that

[sand otter]

wowhead has a good opening rotation

[mossy sable]

I yearn for that energy

On Sin

[sand otter]

but my old bones are slow, and i find myself playing 250 apm starcraft in M+ as law rogue

[arctic cove]

im playing without mfd right now man i didnt want any more buttons when learning it

[mossy sable]

On outlaw I run DS or MfD

[stoic needle]

Getting those resets and pumping 5cp dispatches with blade flurry up is really fun

Ye I definitely did the first few keys with vigor

But I think I have enough haste I don't need it

[mossy sable]

I want Sin to be viableish for pvp

I main Outlaw

[dim yacht]

like, when we went into wod they removed a lot of abilities like snd, inquisition for ret pallies etc on the basis that it didnt add any depth to the class

[mossy sable]

Don't enjoy Sub much

And want something I can pvp as

[dim yacht]

it was just another "push this button when duration is low"

and i feel that way now. granted in m+ theres times where you envenom over snd

[arctic cove]

@stoic needle @sand otter if im playing without MFD, is the opener ambush into snd?

[dim yacht]

but i dont feel snd makes sin more interesting or fun to play

[mossy sable]

I am used to using it since I use it as Outlaw

[stoic needle]

I think SND feels that way because the effect is so boring

It's just attack speed

[dim yacht]

mut>ambush actually if were talking sin here

whispyr gave me a breakdown on it, but ambush is a dps loss over mut

[mossy sable]

Well and energy regen

[dim yacht]

and dps neutral if youre not running blindside

[mossy sable]

Right? Sin gets energy regen from it

[arctic cove]

@dim yacht yeah i was asking for outlaw but yeah wonder if its ambush for law in that case

[stoic needle]

I'm running MA, so I do ambush vanish ambush to start. But I believe you'd ambush into SND yeah, then blade flurry and start pumping

I actually really enjoy MA as outlaw because of the CDR they have on vanish

[mossy sable]

If your asking about Outlaw stuff might wanna ask in #outlaw

[arctic cove]

@stoic needle yeah with MA im getting the opener down, somewhat but im chaning to celerity so im a little bit lost on that part

[devout token]

you don't run EP in m+?

[mossy sable]

But I Ambush first for Count the Odds

[arctic cove]

you running MA or any other legendary?

[mossy sable]

Roll, Ambush, Sinstrike, BtE, Sinstrike until I can SnD, then SS till Ambush

[mossy sable]

Celerity 100%

It's too good

[arctic cove]

aight aight, im excited to craft the ring later

give it a try

[mossy sable]

Idk what I wanna make next for a leggo

I kinda wanna make one for Sin

Cause I do not like Sub mutch but Sin is not viable for PvP or much at all rn

[arctic cove]

i just got zoldyck from torghast so thats probably my next after i get celerity up 1 or 2 levels

[stoic needle]

Yeah pretty much that

[arctic cove]

i need to give outlaw some time, i cant keep switching

[stoic needle]

I look wistfully at my zoldyck power in the dungeon journal every day

[arctic cove]

unlessthey buff sin with 500%

[stoic needle]

Imagine

[mossy sable]

I am finding myself slipping from rogue more and more

[arctic cove]

[mossy sable]

I have been enjoying my hunter a lot

I suck at rogue

[dense cedar]

Survival? @mossy sable

[mossy sable]

MM/BM rn

[dense cedar]

Ranged is for disgusting monsters

smh

[devout token]

^

[arctic cove]

i kinda wanted to play DK in SL but now i dont wanna

[mossy sable]

I like Survival

[stoic needle]

"We've identified a typo with the changes we are testing. Assassination rogue ability damage increased by 50%."

Lol

[mossy sable]

But need more practice

[arctic cove]

i pray

[stoic needle]

The only other class that grabs me atm is warrior

And they're shit too

[arctic cove]

amrs is kinda ok no?

[mossy sable]

Yeah

[arctic cove]

arms*

[tawny barn]

so no buff/nerfs to legos for any class

[mossy sable]

Not in pvp

[stoic needle]

No

[tawny barn]

wtf

[stoic needle]

Arms is good on cleave and in m+ but they're still bottom of the barrel

[mossy sable]

My friend who is pushing 2.2k rn in pvp has seen maybe 1 warrior

[arctic cove]

[mossy sable]

He mains warrior

[stoic needle]

Enh shaman seems kinda cool tbh

[tawny barn]

i suspect like 5 unholy dks in every raid

[mossy sable]

Are the nerfs not much?

They got hit a lot today

[stoic needle]

But it feels weird to spend so much time gearing up this rogue just to switch mains

[mossy sable]

Right

Thats my issue

Rogue is my "Identity" but I am not enjoying it rn

[stoic needle]

I'm only 186 ilvl rn but still

[mossy sable]

I am 188

[stoic needle]

Getting full m0 gear the first week was a struggle

[mossy sable]

Still got 171 boots

[stoic needle]

I use pvp gear to fill out a lot of my slots

I have never seen a weapon drop and only one trinket

This entire expansion

[mossy sable]

Lol really

[stoic needle]

Not even kne

[mossy sable]

You gearing Sin?

[stoic needle]

Meanwhile there's other people who've gotten the flayedwing toxin literally 4 times

[mossy sable]

I actually have more daggers than I do swords

[stoic needle]

Just a crumb of weapon

It's been like this in classic too smdh I think I'm just cursed

My warrior is still using deathbringer and dooms edge

Has been for a whole year

[candid jasper]

When Ion says rogue buffs are coming

Is that the 5% 😛

[mossy sable]

Blizz devs hate rogues

They have no clue how they work

So they just throw changes at a wall and hope they stick

[stoic needle]

Was gearing sub during most of those. Ended up with almost all pvp gear anyway, so much vers mast lol

2 more hours of maintenance... Fucks sake

[light kestrel]

Timed a +6 sanguini last night which isn't even an accomplishment but it's so hard to get into groups as assassination. I was top damage on two bosses at 3.2 and 2.9k, it felt reallllly good to be doing 5k+ aoe damage on some pulls... only to realize I was still below our prot paladin tank LOL.

[ionic hemlock]

LOL

[grim mason]

oof

[dim yacht]

yeah our aoe is just...so shit

and is it me, or is the fan of knives conduit just complete garbage

[echo cargo]

It’s not EB that’s for sure

[dim yacht]

increasing fok damage doesnt seem like itd so anything when we do more in poisons on a fok than the fok does

[ionic hemlock]

Our time will come, granted I played mostly as sub I've been skeretly hoarding sin gear

[dim yacht]

eb was literally the one thing that made us viable in aoe lol

[split veldt]

sin being at the bottom is weird, i cant even remember the last time

[dim yacht]

short of that, theyd really need to buff CT hard i think

i think a CT buff could be interesting playstyle, with decently hard ticking bleeds + prio damage with envenoms

add energy gain on CT ticks similar to garrote/rup and i feel like thats an actual build that has something unique to it

[stoic needle]

***is Fan of Knives just garbage

Ftfy

[dim yacht]

youre the true hero

[stoic needle]

Ct should be baseline

[dim yacht]

yeah thats fair

thatd be helpful

[stoic needle]

Why the fuck does sub get black powder for free and we have to talent into ct

[split veldt]

so dashing scoundrel is better than zoldyck?

[dim yacht]

like if we had another 5% on top of this, + baseline ct

i feel like we could be...viable in m+? not meta pick

but viable

[stoic needle]

Imo there needs to be some reward for multi dotting or some mechanic to make multi dotting easier

A way to spread dots, or to capitalize on the ones you have up

[dim yacht]

i really felt that blizzard missed an opportunity with covenant abilities

[stoic needle]

Sin should get its own malefic rupture

[ionic hemlock]

Hm, I actually don't even like black powder not even sure why they gave it to sub, there musta have been a better option to give us aoe.

[dim yacht]

idk about you guys, but the rogue covenant abilities feel...pretty boring to me

[stoic needle]

It's better that way

[split veldt]

can someone point me to a guide that has opener and rotation please

[stoic needle]

I don't want to be forced into one covenant like hunter or druid

Or warrior

[dim yacht]

im not saying one has to be clear cut better

just wish they were more interesting

[stoic needle]

They are kinda boring thematically tbh

[dim yacht]

like bastion and venythr pally ones are badass

idk how good the convoke is for druids, but its cool

[stoic needle]

It's fucking busted lol

[dim yacht]

im not saying i want something crazy powerful

i just want something that feels fun to use

[stoic needle]

Yeah I hear you

Flagellation does not feel fun to use

[dim yacht]

flagellate made me want to quit

lmao right?

and then i realised how trash it was in m+

so i went bastion

[stoic needle]

As I use it more im getting used to it but it's still not ideal

[dim yacht]

is CT any good if you use it with anima point?

[stoic needle]

I like to put it on priority targets and just try to kill them in 20 seconds so I don't have to worry about reactivating it

[dim yacht]

i will say having the anima abilities in torghast with 20 cp finishers + cd reset when using anima point is pretty sick

and get unending chain link too

and you hit pretty hard

[stoic needle]

I can't imagine Ct with the anima cp being bad

[dim yacht]

meanwhile, kyrian as sub makes me want to hit my computer

like

[stoic needle]

You gotta get a secret techniques tracking weakaura if you don't have one already

Makes it a lot easier to manage

[dim yacht]

hit my evis "oh you wanted an rng combo point right as you evis? have fun with your 3cp evis idiot"

literally me everytime

every fucking time

[stoic needle]

It's not quite as rng as you'd think

It's guaranteed to proc every 5 autos, but can proc as early as the 3rd

[dim yacht]

does it have an icd?

that makes more sense

[stoic needle]

It's 3-5 autos every time

[dim yacht]

its just...frustrating

lol

good to know that

but i really dont wanna have to count my autos

suppose could use a WA for it

[stoic needle]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=196912/shadow-techniques

[dim yacht]

oh you mentioned one

[stoic needle]

Blizzard out here with the Incredibly Informative And Not At All Innacurate Tooltips

[dim yacht]

lmao does anyone remember that meme addon someone made in bfa

[stoic needle]

I actually enjoy the kyrian ability but I hate them as a faction

[dim yacht]

it was called i think ions sufficient tooltips

or something like that

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9meqr3/i_was_inspired_by_the_advaned_tooltips_addon_i/

[stoic needle]

Lmaoo

[bright path]

u think tomorrow sin will get buffed?

[balmy condor]

NA is getting a juicy 5% buff to sin today

[mental laurel]

As if 5% is enough to make it relevant

[balmy condor]

Blizz gave me 5%, my imagination can do 5% more

Gotta meet them halfway

[bright path]

so 10% total?from 5% previous week's?

[balmy condor]

No

Just 5%

[bright path]

ah

[balmy condor]

That’s why my imagination has to do the rest

[ionic hemlock]

Imagination is the key to success

[jade jewel]

Um why did Sin get a night stalker talent nerf? 😮 supriso

[ionic hemlock]

It was a nerf to the talent. I don't think they can decide that it hurts one spec over another.

[loud atlas]

havent touched sin this xpac, surprised by the nerf there. thought sin was hurting overall

[real bay]

it was more of a pvp nerf

[jade jewel]

Oooh so it wasn’t spec specific - ty. Only mildly supriso now.

[loud atlas]

It is spec specific tho:
Assassination
[With regional restarts] Nightstalker (Talent) increases damage dealt while Stealth is active by 25% (was 50%).
Subtlety
[With regional restarts] Nightstalker (Talent) increases damage dealt while Stealth or Shadow Dance is active by 8% when engaged in combat with enemy players (was 12%).

[balmy condor]

They can change talents on a spec by spec basis

Nightstalker is different on sub

[fleet whale]

that's a pvp nerf

[slender badger]

Doesn't say that

the ones that are pvp nerfs say " when engaged in combat with enemy players"

that one does not

[balmy condor]

We think it’s a typo

[fleet whale]

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1112416-class-tuning-in-progress-dec-15/

it's listed under pvp

[balmy condor]

^

[fleet whale]

blizz intern was probably just lazy

[balmy condor]

Regardless, even if it somehow were a pve nerf as well

It wouldn’t change anything

At all

[vestal wren]

we will know once we get spell data

but it seems like pvp only

[fleet whale]

@slender badger there are ways to balance this game so that even the worst dps spec in the game isn't viable

ToS comes to mind... both outlaw and assassination were both in the bottom, but both were still viable

yeah but they've been able to do it before though, legion as a whole had decent pve balance

[pliant apex]

so now sin still shit?

[fleet whale]

maybe not complete bottom anymore

but still not good

[lime lintel]

how's sin in pvp compared to sub after the nerfs and buffs?

feels like it actually could be viable now especially together with night fae

[fleet whale]

it looks to be ok in pvp now

sub still seems busted, but i think sin can work in pvp

[lime lintel]

I made the Doomblade legendary today and have messed around a bit and with decent haste and night fae passive it feels alright

[cold wraith]

That fat dagger

[lime lintel]

the bonus mobility from Soulshape really hits when in assa that doesn't have as high mobility as sub

[lime lintel]

nice bro grats

[fleet whale]

only problem with fae is that sepsis can be dispelled, and has a pretty long cd

ER is just a 45 second cd and pretty much hits every time

[lime lintel]

yeah very true

was hoping they would do something about that since beta

[granite imp]

!stat

!stars

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[granite imp]

Anyone know stats for pvp?

[dusk bone]

is assa vviable right now ?

[night radish]

probably not sadly

[real bay]

depends what viable is to you

for world first race its not