its just a meme at this point
#assassination
real bay
balmy condor
Except people fucking believe it for some reason
fleet whale
in fact, the gap gets larger i believe in favor for sub with more mythic gear
balmy condor
It says about the same
plain thistle
what about
balmy condor
Maybe slightly larger
fleet whale
i guess another thing to consider whispyr is faster boss kills as we gear up
that favors sub atm
shy dust
🐒
balmy condor
“Oh but sin sucks at the start of expansions”
shy dust
🦧
low girder
And really good in BoD
balmy condor
The 34% crit thing you just said “doesn’t exist” and moved on
But sin scaling just lingers like a plague
fleet whale
i can't wait for the next thing people will say soon:
"Vendetta is the best damage CD in the game"
balmy condor
They already say that smh
proper sage
i thought sin had the highest burst cd out of the 3 rogue specs
it was like htat in bfa no?
proper sage
enlighten me
balmy condor
Single target? Probably
balmy condor
M+? Probably not
But there’s different classes that have CDs stronger than vendetta
And that’s what it’s being compared too
Which is unfortunate
stoic needle
sin scales with buffs from the devs
balmy condor
Yeah vendetta single target is better than Ar and sb
stoic needle
quaint dragon
can anybody help me out i cant decide which leggo to craft (Doomblade vsMaster Assassin)
balmy condor
Probably MA
stoic needle
how do you guys handle sustain as sin? i'm trying it out and i feel like I take so much more damage than I did as sub, even in world content. i've started kiting more but it's still a lot squishier. could it be that my gear isn't suited for sin?(mostly pvp gear which is vers)
balmy condor
Since doom blade is a stat stick on 3 targets
serene basin
yeah, prob MA
balmy condor
how do you guys handle sustain as sin? i'm trying it out and i feel like I take ...
3 garrotes from stealth and pray
But if it’s 1 target uhhh
Idk
stoic needle
trying to get a bunch of dots up for the leech?
stoic needle
I didn't realize how much I rely on being able to cheap shot during shadow dance to prevent damage
balmy condor
It should be stealth garrotes > CT > 4ish ruptures > enven
I didn’t have cheap shot bound until heroic dungeons tbh
serene basin
but with CT you barely have time to envenm
balmy condor
Because it’s strong
stoic needle
I'm running poison bomb atm?
balmy condor
With pb just skip the ct step
stoic needle
gotcha
kiting with crippling and dots is fun but doesn't work if you don't have a lot of space to move
stoic needle
really? what do you use instead
balmy condor
Numbing
stoic needle
i guess in most PVE content you'd run numbing
grave thunder
is outlaw the best rogue spec now
stoic needle
it's roughly on par with sub
balmy condor
In all PvE you’d run numbing
fleet whale
if you are sub, you can run night terros
balmy condor
There’s never a reason not run numbing
fleet whale
so you basically get crippling and numbing at the same time lol
serene basin
is outlaw the best rogue spec now
stoic needle
like i said, crippling kiting for world content hehe
fleet whale
not in pvp
stoic needle
why do you consider it to be better than sub?
balmy condor
Yeah but fuck pvp
low girder
Better aoe and almost the same ST
balmy condor
Yeah outlaws downside used to be that the single target wasn’t great
stoic needle
but you could say that sub has almost the same aoe but better ST lol
fleet whale
well it still has a downside and it's a big one
low girder
Aoe isn't that close
grave thunder
from what i see assassination in damage is way behind the other two spec's
balmy condor
There’s a lot more aoe as well
fleet whale
it needs to be on the boss 24/7
stoic needle
yeah, sadly
balmy condor
from what i see assassination in damage is way behind the other two spec's
It is
balmy condor
Sub also has to stick to the boss
serene basin
I don’t think it’s that weirdchamp
it's not i'm messing with him
fleet whale
sub has two shadow step charges
balmy condor
Rupture doesn’t hit that hard
fleet whale
so getting back to the boss is easy as sub
grave thunder
does outlaw still put out some good st or is it behind sub when it comes to raw single target one one boss
stoic needle
it's still more than outlaw has lol
serene basin
but outlaw doesnt give the dmg you need that moment, you know? i feel reckin'slashin' with him
balmy condor
3 raid fights that are single target?
stoic needle
the question is the gap between ST for sub and outlaw bigger, smaller, or the same as the gap in AOE
grave thunder
from what i see most the fight or a good bit of the fights in the new raid is aoe base rather then st
low girder
The aoe gap is like 15%
stoic needle
whew
low girder
Assuming full uptime
fleet whale
also depends on what your raid needs
stoic needle
that is a lot
stoic needle
sub's prio damage is really good
low girder
Yeah just stack hunters for aoe burst lmao
grave thunder
is the stats still Versatility > Haste > Critical Strike > Mastery i checked the outlaw that's what it told me was not sure if it was up to date
fleet whale
choosing what spec is ideal for a fight i think is a bit more complicated
serene basin
subs got the best ST with adds along side the boss
fleet whale
then just choosing aoe vs st
stoic needle
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
fleet whale
overall dps alone doesn't always tell the whole story
serene basin
true, but the dps on demand does
low girder
You'll see both in the race if they get taken
balmy condor
is the stats still Versatility > Haste > Critical Strike > Mastery i checked the...
Yes the pins are updated within days
low girder
I'd put money on it
stable urchin
Hey, Assasination is worth to play in this expansion ?
fleet whale
like every sin rogue in Nighthold ran with agonizing poison and just stuck on the boss, even the more cleave fights
grave thunder
its sad how sin is so behind i always enjoy playing sin but hey got to wish for the wow gods to bring it back
fleet whale
cause their ST boss damage was that good
serene basin
Hey, Assasination is worth to play in this expansion ?
only if you like it a lot
pliant apex
jw, anyone playin sin at all?
fleet whale
about as many as there were sub rogues
serene basin
jw, anyone playin sin at all?
i'm
fleet whale
in bfa
low girder
I've yet to see a sin rogue tbh
low girder
In the world
balmy condor
I’ve seen a couple
stable urchin
only if you like it a lot
Thanks, im learning to play rouge and dont know sure which spec choose....
serene basin
howre you liking it
its disappointing at aoe, but compensates at ST
lacking some energy, due to low haste
fleet whale
competes in st is a stretch for sin
serene basin
but it goes well
grave thunder
sin now a days seems like a lot of things to upkeep and does not even do the damage with how many dots and buff's u got to keep up
fleet whale
it's an auto attack machine
serene basin
Thanks, im learning to play rouge and dont know sure which spec choose....
cool! try sub, it might be good all the xp long
balmy condor
I would agree with that
serene basin
sin now a days seems like a lot of things to upkeep and does not even do the da...
yeeeeeeep
fleet whale
sin's abilities don't do enough damage
balmy condor
But if you don’t care too much about damage output, you can play what you want
serene basin
SnD, rupt, garote
stable urchin
cool! try sub, it might be good all the xp long
ehhh i miss all rotation... and dont sure about macros
serene basin
in the mean time get some snvenoms
serene basin
But if you don’t care too much about damage output, you can play what you want
thats all wow is about
when not in a race
fleet whale
i don't raid at a high level at all but Sin is still demoralizing for me
serene basin
if you put effort to it, maybe you get some rewards
balmy condor
That’s all wow is about to you maybe
That’s all there is for me as well
But there’s a large portion of people who don’t play that way
And that’s fine
serene basin
ehhh i miss all rotation... and dont sure about macros
it takes practice, like anything wlse
quaint dragon
another question if I run ma will my garottes crit for the duration of MA or their own duration
plain thistle
duration of MA
balmy condor
Yup
quaint dragon
that sucks but thanks
balmy condor
Snapshotting like that only exists with the damage portion of subterfuge garrotes, nightstalker, and haste with exsang
fleet whale
i remember when snapshotting used to be crazy for everyone
like for affliction, you could wait till the very end of your trinket procs to reapply the dots
and your dots would be buffed for the full duration, even after the buff dropped
stable urchin
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
dark forum
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
stoic needle
Personally I find running around refreshing dots to be more fun than spamming shadow strike and evis all day
Gives me more time to think about positioning and CCing
gleaming eagle
anyone know a good burst combo that sin can use in pvp ?
that start from stealth
grim mason
Can you sim Covenant abilities?
stoic needle
I guess with subt you'd ambush into cheap shot, garotte, mut, kidney and pray you get a blindside proc from your envenom
balmy condor
Sub channel is cursed yeah xD
grim mason
I asked like 5 times no response, argueing over lego
balmy condor
It’s a bit of a mess lately
I don’t dare venture into the darkness for too long
It’s like the maw
stoic needle
Lmao
grim mason
just leveling as sub to get a taste and popped over there for info
yeah i default her eno mater what lol
buoyant quest
anyone else still playing assassination hoping for a tuning pass before deciding to change to something else?
stoic needle
All the min maxers went sub and outlaw
That's basically what I'm doing. If they buff sin I'm switching otherwise I'll stay sub
I'll give it a re-evaluation every tier to see if it feels any better
real bay
they will likely buff but how much is different
buoyant quest
I used to be combat for years and years and when they first changed it to outlaw I hated the roll the bones mechanic so I switched to assassination. Don't really want to switch again unless I have to but the numbers I put up are pretty MEHHHHHH
grim mason
is it that bad @balmy condor damn been playing mage and hunter leveld em 1st
stoic needle
Is it really?
balmy condor
Yeah
grim mason
do i have to choose a cov 1st to be able to sim?
upper wasp
But am I the only one taking shit powers in Thorgast?
balmy condor
Havoc was trash during beta, and sub was bugged to be doing like triple the damage it was supposed to, so half of fel hammer showed up in sub
stoic needle
My OG rogue in vanilla was assassination, so I wanted to try it again, but I got scared by people saying how bad it was(and sub is pretty fun at times). But now as I'm max level and getting geared I think I like the sin playstyle more
grim mason
I am odoing fate so can i chose one sim it then drop it and chose another no prob right?
balmy condor
do i have to choose a cov 1st to be able to sim?
You can hit unlock all
Don’t need to change in game
stoic needle
Havoc was trash during beta, and sub was bugged to be doing like triple the dama...
So the rogue class had a burning legion invasion?
grim mason
ok thanks
upper wasp
it's too hard this tower!
balmy condor
So the rogue class had a burning legion invasion?
Basically yeah
stoic needle
Jesus lol
balmy condor
it's too hard this tower!
I did my first layer 3 at 140ilvl, it’s not that bad
stoic needle
Don't load up on aoe powers you want single target stuff. Build a boss killer build, not a trash killing one
upper wasp
this week i cannot kill the soulmass D:
cunning urchin
I feel like i'm constantly trying to keep slice up
upper wasp
Don't load up on aoe powers you want single target stuff. Build a boss killer bu...
oh ok!
balmy condor
Sin is a little clunky yeah
cunning urchin
Bring back cut to the chase
stoic needle
Sin should get premeditation 
quaint dragon
Do I put my legendary power in the item with most stats?
stable urchin
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
real bay
i would not put it in anything yet
balmy condor
Do I put my legendary power in the item with most stats?
You would craft into a slot that gives the most stats, while avoiding the 233 pieces that drop from the last 2 bosses
grim mason
I dont see an "ynlock all option"
stoic needle
Rogue can handle any wing's trash without specific aoe powers because of our cc
grim mason
"unlock"
balmy condor
Should be between the gear and talent sections
Are you importing from the addon,
Or from armory
grim mason
addon
grim mason
SOULBINDS
Your character must choose a Covenant to see Soulbind options
TALENTS
I cant screenshot
balmy condor
That’s fine
grim mason
oh
balmy condor
With like rogue name, talents, spec
Etc
Right
And then it has a white space
And a bunch of gear
grim mason
mhhmh
grim mason
oooh big brain thanks
balmy condor
And then should unlock those options for you
sweet pecan
thorgast is weird tho
i had 2 runs where i had no problems at all till the last boss
all other runs i got trough with no problems
wasted all deaths trying to kill that last boss, every CD every CC, couldnt do it
quaint dragon
I can chose between wrist and ring for MA but rings have more secondary stats and wrist agility so what i take?
balmy condor
Probably wrist
The difference in slot is honestly irrelevant
I think mystler summed it up nicely with this:
There is no definitive answer to what slot is best. Depends on what you have, where it's bigger upgrade, and if you're thinking long or short term. Even then those two slots are close. Wrist can be a main stat boost, ring allows tailoring secondaries.
stable urchin
Which legenadry is the best for assasination ?
balmy condor
Zoldyck as an all around
knotty bear
I miss sin 
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
gray fjord
Whispyr you mad lad, a bis list? o:
Very nicely formatted, by the way. I'm not that patient with excel xD
sacred gate
So confused about all the different Legendries different sights are saying completely different things
balmy condor
Very nicely formatted, by the way. I'm not that patient with excel xD
I stole miki’s list
gray fjord
No clue who that is, but it's nice either way. ^^
balmy condor
So confused about all the different Legendries different sights are saying compl...
Doomblade dashing and zoldyck are good single target, zoldyck and master assassin aoe
grim mason
is there an addon where you can make BiS list? 0.o
balmy condor
No clue who that is, but it's nice either way. ^^
He’s the guy that made the sub bis list, I just stole the sheet and changed it a little to my preference
balmy condor
is there an addon where you can make BiS list? 0.o
Just good ol fashioned Raidbots/Simulationcraft and a lot of simming
grim mason
man I want to cheat with wowhead bis list or iceyveins lol
grim mason
pm your 🙂
balmy condor
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
balmy condor
This is mine xD
grim mason
cool alright back to leveling
dusk lodge
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
quaint dragon
Why is ambush suddenly removed from my rotation after having MA ?
gray fjord
Prolly because of Seal fate giving an extra CP over ambush, would be my assumption
4 CP vers 3 from ambush. Idk for certain though, I haven't looked at the APL with MA yet. ^^;
balmy condor
MA forces mutilate I think
I don’t remember off the top of my head
Because the combo point gain is more efficient in that time window
gray fjord
Yeah, you get one CP from each crit hit of mut, so 4 vs 3 was my guess too
balmy condor
Subterfuge doesn’t use ambush either, that one I know, because I’m the one that wrote it
Ambush just isn’t that great
I reference you back to this meme
gray fjord
tbh I like Asassination way more with Blindside.
xD I've never watched Rick and Morty more than once but that's a pretty good picture to describe a lot of mechanics in WoW
quaint dragon
but ambush does like 2time sthe damage?
low girder
you'll say that until you get back to back 0 crit windows
then you'll hate it with the rest of us
quaint dragon
but i have MA
balmy condor
Ambush doesn’t do 2x the damage
If it did, it would be a gain to cast it over mutilate in subterfuge
primal zinc
imo its better than subterfuge because in a fight like 5 min you will get to use vanish 2 times so its kinda good imo
quaint dragon
Im using the legendary MA not talent
primal zinc
oops misstyped
quaint dragon
and my ambush does 2.2k while mutilate 1.1k
real bay
snd xd
balmy condor
Hm
Guess it does do double
What am I mixing it up with
Either way
Still a loss
quaint dragon
because of cp?
balmy condor
Most likely, yeah
You can read about it here
That was my theorycraft on ambush vs mut in single target
quaint dragon
So very little increase
dark token
thank god i hate blindside as a talent
dark token
having to use gnomesequencer to macro ambush/mutilate is stupidly hacky
balmy condor
This is purely for ambushing from stealth
You still run blindside
And use free ambushes
dark token
the fact it doesnt proc stealth bar is 
quaint dragon
the blindside proc u mean?
balmy condor
I don’t think it should proc stealth bar
Proccing the stealth bar for a proc that happens to be usable out of stealth
Seems janky as hell to me
Just put ambush on its own bind and be done with it
quaint dragon
ye i agree tbh xd
dark token
i do, i use shadowstrike/backstab macros etc
but they are only castable when you have stealth stance
blindside doesnt count for that so you cant have a conditional macro
dark token
im hoping i dont have to play sin until subterfuge/EP is bis 🙏
balmy condor
Lmao
humble socket
I crafted the Master Assassin Legendary, so Im assuming the talent is wasted, is Nightstalker or Subterfuge better?
balmy condor
I never understood the fascination of rogues to just macro every ability together
dark token
i mean i can, sin has so little binds compared to other specs
balmy condor
how hard is it to have a button bound to ambush?
It’s not
dark token
its just annoying me that its not consistent with other specs
so i need a special key
strange python
doing ToP first boss farm for legendary - EU alliance
dark token
rupture is where between the eyes is, shadowstrike is macrod with backstab and also seperate bind shadow dance
quaint dragon
I sim for 3k with my sin with buffs and 3.4k with sub so ye
knotty bear
if it at least did okay on aoe i'd just cop the damage loss
but gap gets a little too big
quaint dragon
outlaw seems broken again
strange python
I'm hoping we'll get some better tuning on sin, I hate sub with a passion, so clunky
knotty bear
sub is okay, but feels pretty unga and not overly engaging
old snow
every day im forced to play sub a part of me dies
real bay
blizz is probably well aware some specs like sin are way underperforming
real bay
they just wait till hc week is done
and tune
i have warrior at 60 for backup if sin never gets buffed
upper wasp
There's a problem with Energy regen?
balmy condor
Not really a problem per-say
But in aoe we don’t have the crit to sustain the combo points necessary to multi-dot for energy
And we don’t have eb to carry the damage once we have that energy
In single target it’s fine
Just weak number wise
little sandal
can someone help me with the kyrian covenant i have a question
balmy condor
Sure
little sandal
how do you use the covenant so u always get the 7 combo point
i always go above and takes like 3 trys
silk crest
why the simulation bot priorize mutilate instead ambush while stealth?
balmy condor
i always go above and takes like 3 trys
That’s fine
As long as you get it in the 45 seconds
hearty quartz
is there a way to make a macro in wow to cast TotT on the tank in a group without using @ focus ?
balmy condor
why the simulation bot priorize mutilate instead ambush while stealth?
Because mutilate is a gain over ambush
gray fjord
You could use a mouse-over instead I believe. I have a really wonky way of doing it that I don't know if I'd recommend but I like it. xD Vuhdo
balmy condor
I have it set to @ name
And just whenever I enter a group
I copy the name with a right click, edit the macro, and go
I used to do mouseover and that worked fine too
gray fjord
I'm way to forgetful for that sh*t XD I'd never remember to change the name in it and then my luck there'd be a DPS with the same name in a dungeon later. lmao
balmy condor
Lmao
gray fjord
💔 Hamster brain syndrome is real man. t_t I need a weakaura to remind me, it's really sadge.
urban marsh
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
balmy condor
Could make a weakaura to remind you to change the tricks macro
gray fjord
xD True. I mean for M+ I have one tank I almost exclusively run with so maybe it'd be fine, but he changes between a few of them.
balmy condor
Must be nice
gray fjord
Oh he isn't good don't worry (xD He'd kill me if he saw this. lol he's not that bad)
Slightly more on topic- I will say for the lack of attention assassination has gotten so far (fingers crossed for a tuning pass, of course) I think it actually plays better than previously with new blindside by quite a lot. Much more engaging for me at least. I just would've liked to see hidden blades replaced with echoing blades as a talent. Blindside is nigh but useless in dungeons(edit: rather, aoe) and elaborate planning is such a very boring talent to me.
balmy condor
There’s a lot of boring talents sadly
I kinda miss MP + pk from legion
Similar enough to eb I guess
gray fjord
I know what you mean, that seems to be a trend across all 3 specs and a lot of times they're the best option too.
/stares at alacrity for like 4 expansions straight
arctic cove
Hello guys, im new here and im just curious. Im kinda new to wow, started late BFA, this april. I really enjoy playing assasin but it seems weak (?), so ive been trying subtley for 2 days, its kinda hard to get into but im getting there. But I actually miss playing assasination, is it worth going back? Im in a mythic guild so I actually want to "do damage" in m+ later
gray fjord
^ Much less words than I was going to type. XD
arctic cove
so sin is that bad right now?
gray fjord
Even outlaws pure single target is better right now, so yeah kinda. >>;
arctic cove
aw...
gray fjord
I think in 3 target sustained fights it is pretty comparable, but that's about it as far as I'm aware. Might be wrong on exact number of targets necessary for DoT uptime to bring it up in comparison. Even then it's still lower though.
It'll be Sub at least in those situations xD Outlaw stomps them both in that target range though.
arctic cove
thats sad
i really, really, enjoy playing sin much more than i do sub or outlaw but ohwell
gray fjord
I really dislike seeing any rogue spec underperform, so I'm hoping to see something in the future of sin.
Hoping when tier makes a return (or they add new leggos later in the expac) that they give some more dungeon oriented/AoE oriented things to fill it out a bit.
balmy condor
^ Much less words than I was going to type. XD
You tend to shorten your answers when you’re in here as much as me xD
balmy condor
I think in 3 target sustained fights it is pretty comparable, but that's about i...
Also not comparable in 3 target, sin gets stomped even there
It gets stomped on every fight style, with every amount of adds
gray fjord
It gets stomped on every fight style, with every amount of adds
Hm, I was looking at Fuu's thingy and it's a few hundred DPS higher than sub in 3 target according to that? o.o
Outlaw is way higher than both of course in that situation.
gray fjord
Ah, fair. I try not to mention the O word around these parts.
balmy condor
Lmao
gray fjord
balmy condor
Almost as forbidden as “scale”
arctic cove
what spec do you guys play at this moment?
gray fjord
arctic cove
i see
hazy geyser
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
tender folio
Such a shame that assa didnt get any love
gray fjord
He’s definitely yellow
You say that like it's a bad thing. 
balmy condor
My sworn enemy
gray fjord
gray fjord
❤️ ^^ 
balmy condor
gray fjord
Like I've said many times- I want all 3 specs to perform well, even if I prefer one over the others.
Sub was dumpstered for 2 years which sucked, Sin shouldn't have to have the same thing happen.
gray fjord
That's the thing, being a pure DPS class we should be able to swap to whatever spec performs best for each type of content/fight style. It defeats the purpose of being a pure DPS spec if 33% of the class is untouched in virtually all content.
sacred yarrow
I even read what u wrote b4 and still did it
balmy condor
THE WORD
gray fjord
Other than die hards or just folks who play what they like in more casual content of course, but that is few and far between with how popular 'the meta' and flavor of the month or whatever.
sacred yarrow
LOL
gray fjord
O______________O
balmy condor
HE SAID THE WORD
gray fjord
⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️
balmy condor
We don’t use bait words like that sir
balmy condor
Oh shit
balmy condor
But like actually
Please don’t
The meme of “sin scales” needs to die already
It’s been like 8 years
drifting cloud
oh shit I havent seen their charts in awhile
gray fjord
That's why blindside feels really nice to me, it helps fill in the rotation and conserves energy. The giga-haste meme from BfA was a bit excessive (albeit I did like it xD) but the likelihood of that happening again is pretty nonexistent with how mixed I think corruption was received as a game system. Maybe I'm wrong and it was more liked than disliked, but I find that hard to believe.
gray fjord
Dashing Scoundrel was a good tier set for sure.
balmy condor
Crit mast stacking for giga nightstalker envenoms
gray fjord
That and the artifact, sin was so tanky with that crimson vial defensive buff for challenge modes/mage tower things
balmy condor
Real good
gray fjord
A fair statement for sure, I do think pooling is part of what really separates assassination out from the other two specs in terms of a methodical playstyle though which definitely has some appeal to it or they wouldn't keep that playstyle.
balmy condor
Yeah pooling is sick
That methodical playstyle
Hits a good spot
Not just oogabooga me fok spam black powder
Or blade flurry brrrrrr
gray fjord
I'd say it has much more preparation/planning compared to outlaw obviously, and sub has a moderate level with making sure to not waste dances and whatnot, but assassination has much more premediation (ironic) than the others.
buoyant quest
I don't do a whole lot of pooling to be honest
buoyant quest
like some, especially at these lower haste levels and stuff
sacred yarrow
That's another thing lol do u even lose much
balmy condor
But I wish pooling mattered
sacred yarrow
I thought u had to try fit 3 fat envenoms in tb window
buoyant quest
especially if you're not choosing uhh.. the second row talent 1 whatever the hell it's called
Elaborate planning
balmy condor
You don’t have to
buoyant quest
EP encourages pooling by getting in more finishers during that 5 second window
balmy condor
Shiv isn’t as big as you think
buoyant quest
yeah I think that the most important thing vis a vis shiv and your damage is making sure you maximize uptime of the shiv buff by making sure you aren't holding it for long, with that short of a cooldown you should be aiming to have it up as much as you can primarily with a secondary goal of fitting as much envenoms into the window as you can. Other rogues feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.
gray fjord
@balmy condor Not sure if you've done much with it but since you're into the TC stuff much more than I am, what are your thoughts on the Shadowgrasp Totem trinket? o:
gray fjord
I know it isn't simming correctly for the damage component, yeah I saw that as well
balmy condor
Looks really good though
gray fjord
But I've been testing it in my 0's and if you use it correctly it seems to be quite a strong trinket if you can get the CD down in a trash pack.
And scaling with haste is pretty spicy.
balmy condor
Yeah
gray fjord
oop the word oxo
gray fjord
Yeah in dungeons I've seen it be quite strong. I don't have a venthyr atm but I can imagine a 40% haste buff from thillseeker+flagellation making that trinket pump
Like Merektha's Fang Jr
gray fjord
That's more just speculation of course. ^^; Idk how likely/feasible it'd be to get that thing to tick like every .3 seconds or even .5. I would (assume??) 50% haste would cut the 1 second per tick down to .5 seconds, and 50% haste would be pretty easy to hit with all the various haste buffs/haste stacking we can do.
stoic needle
Not just oogabooga me fok spam black powder
lmao agreed. this is why i'm interested in sin, basically lol
quaint dragon
shadowgrasp totem is really nicuu did more damage than my kyrian ability
pastel sandal
is sin even viable for m+ in its current state?
main forge
No. Everything is December the 8th. PvP Season, M+, and Raid.
quaint dragon
only if u are good enough eksdeee
strange python
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
lethal coral
what would be the best stat for a legendary, crit+vers?, or haste+verse?
balmy condor
Haste Vers was marginally higher from my tests
But with sidegrades I’m sure you could find some combination where a different combination is higher
lethal coral
ive got a 210 wrist if it matters
balmy condor
There’s a lot of combos
lethal coral
i guess ill try the haste vers
balmy condor
You can use the sims in the bis list and play around with it yourself
If you want to
arctic cove
@lethal coral do you play assasin in higher mythics?
pliant apex
can somene explain legendaries, how do i go about obtaining one, and can you only equip one at a time?
also is it gear or conduit, or both?
knotty bear
follow rune carver quest line (need a memory, base item, missives to craft), can only equip one at a time and it is gear
balmy condor
Yup, memories drop from all sorts of places just as personal loot, go to the runecarver with one to learn it
Give him an item the memory fits on, crafted by a leatherworker or whatever
And missives to determine the stats, crafted by inscriptionists
He smashes it together for you
daring imp
does venomous wounds + internal bleeding work?
pliant apex
Yup, memories drop from all sorts of places just as personal loot, go to the run...
run carver quest line opens up as i do more cov stuff?
balmy condor
Torghast/maw
balmy condor
does venomous wounds + internal bleeding work?
I don’t believe so
pliant apex
ty
daring imp
@balmy condor oh it works, tested just about now, venomous wounds changes its tooltip
balmy condor
It changes the tooltip?
That’s wild
I guess I don’t use internal bleeding enough to have noticed
It’s basically worthless in pve
fleet whale
is shadowgrasp trinket good?
balmy condor
Yes
fleet whale
alright i just got it...sadly it means i'm running double on use though
lol it sims 24 dps less than a 158 a decanter lol
dreamy orchid
I'm having energy problems in single target boss encounters
Especially in M+, when I have aoe talents, how am I supposed to do any dmg on boss fights outside of my vendetta window?
main forge
I have energy problems too but I think that's just where we sit currently at the gear levels we are at.
If you roll with bad DPS, your numbers can look better.
fleet whale
i also got the ??? trinket... it sims well but i'm gonna have to really pay attention to my allies to make the most of it
river ore
I hope sin gets a fat buff ill switch in a heartbeat.
balmy condor
Especially in M+, when I have aoe talents, how am I supposed to do any dmg on bo...
By aoe talents you mean losing blindside? Shouldnt be all that bad
It’s a little slow for sure though
bold saffron
I like sin but it feels really really slow in aoe situations especially
Like its laughable how many combo points you get
and energy regen
bold saffron
How do you get Zoldyck ?
and doomblade? says they drop in torghast? Is it just a random drop off a specific boss?
on layer 3
balmy condor
It’s a torg wing
At level 3
Doomblade from mort’regar and zoldyck from coldheart
If I remember correctly
balmy condor
No they’re guaranteed like the rest of them
All the torg drops are 100% at layer 3+
bold saffron
oh I didnt know that
balmy condor
That’s why you got blunderbus last week and deathly or whatever this week
grizzled jay
all ready for the Heroic week Sin buff
bold saffron
yeah i got that today
plain thistle
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
fleet whale
they may not even buff sin who knows
fleet whale
were gonna have to see where sin places in logs
it's not even the lowest simming spec in the game atm which is making me nervous
whole lance
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
barren bane
echoing reprimand when to use?
balmy condor
On cooldown
arctic cove
im gonna try sin again for a couple of mythic dungeons
what legendary are u guys making first?
balmy condor
for sin, zoldyck
arctic cove
is MA out of the question for sin?
arctic cove
and zoldyck is torghast drop right
dashing scoundrel seems nice but its from the raid
balmy condor
scoundrel is pretty bad in dungeons
arctic cove
hmm
shadow tulip
Well, not gonna replace Azerite neck this week either
balmy condor
arctic cove
isnt hc 171
balmy condor
oh, I was about to say, I replaced mine last week
azerite neck is triple stat
worth a little more than its ilvl
shadow tulip
Yea hc is 171, but still not upgrade
arctic cove
i got a question, if u got the MA and youre in the normal "stealth" mode, what do u open with?
balmy condor
MA the legendary or ma the talent
arctic cove
MA legendary
balmy condor
and are we single target or aoe
arctic cove
single target
balmy condor
you'd follow the same logic as with the talent, mut snd mut rup
arctic cove
because im guessing the real dmg window is when u have all dots etc on target, and then use vanish and pop off again
fleet whale
a 171 pvp neck was just barely an upgrade over my 147 HOA
balmy condor
you would take subt and use 3 garrotes
balmy condor
blindside is definitely the move in single target
fleet whale
blindside in dungeons? idk about that
fleet whale
the real move is for blizzard to make blindside baseline
arctic cove
haha i swapped back lol
viscid mason
is there anyway to keep shadowdance from paging the stealth bar?
i havent played in a long time but that used to be possible
balmy condor
if you're using elvui or another action bar addon, you can change the paging per action bar
on default, I'm not entirely sure
think there's a setting for it somewhere
viscid mason
im using bt4 for bars, maybe will try dominos
bartender4 only has a configuration for stealth, not shadowdance
balmy condor
should be stance:0, stance:1, stance:2
umbral rapids
Whispyr did you go night fae ?
balmy condor
I did
umbral rapids
Does soulshape pull up your stealth bar ?
umbral rapids
Hmm ok 🤔
viscid mason
i believe it does
viscid mason
@balmy condor downloaded dominos and it had an option to disable shadowdance paging. idk why bartender4 doesnt
arctic cove
do u guys prefer vigor for 30 talent?
balmy condor
vigor for single target, mfd for dungeons
viscid mason
i always thought dominos was the simpler addon, i guess not
nimble garnet
@balmy condor u playing assa ?
balmy condor
not currently, no
I just theorycraft it a little and I might play it in raids depending on how fruity I'm feeling
nimble garnet
@balmy condor ihear u, i assume somehting might change once comes raid maybe, subs fun atm not gonna lie tho
balmy condor
its okay
supple compass
is anyone playing any rogue spec simming 4k rn?
balmy condor
sub rogues are in m0 gear
strange python
I can smell buffs on the horizon
balmy condor
is anyone playing any rogue spec simming 4k rn?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v3XbBhTBc1FEFy58A6ue2G I forced all my items to 184, these are all dungeon drops, and not optimized at all
I'm sure there's upgrades to be had
brisk flicker
Wait, how do you "force" your items to 184? Wtf guess I'm missing something completely from Shadowlands
brisk flicker
oh
balmy condor
I'm just showing its possible without boe's
brisk flicker
I was so confused. I was like... is there some kind of upgrade mechanic lol.
I just simmed myself ST Patchwerk fight as Assassination... 2831.
177 ilvl
stoic needle
I sim about 3.5-3.8k with st as sub, only 2.9 as sin :(
atomic temple
Is assassin good for tour ghost?
delicate bone
I’m simming 3,878 with the gear I have currently, 4K is pretty doable I think
balmy condor
my actual rogue is at 3853 and I still need to do mythics this week
balmy condor
Is assassin good for tour ghost?
its okay, just weaker than sub imo
delicate bone
Same, I’ve done one today, need to do some more forsure. I think 4K by the end of the week is more than doable
stoic needle
I think my vers/crit pvp gear isn't very good for sin
brisk flicker
so is 2831 dps low for 177? >.> that's what it's showing for me feelsbad
balmy condor
just wants haste more
brisk flicker
Yea, I've simmed and set stat weights for it. Basically all haste gear is upgrades
stoic needle
I might gem and enchant for haste, sub likes haste a little bit as well and I don't have a ton
balmy condor
yep, seems fine to me
brisk flicker
Thanks. Even though I'm 177, I'm also stuck with 158 and 155 dagger + no wep chants on either... problem a massive dps loss until I find something for that spot.
stoic needle
PvP daggers
balmy condor
mainhand and no chants is probably where that dps is missing XD
brisk flicker
wait... pvp daggers?
stoic needle
You can get up to 171 I think with renown 5
brisk flicker
Why did I not think of this
brisk flicker
Easier than just trying to farm heroics? because that's what I'm about to do this week. I'm already 8/8 mythic so... I'm stuck with these 150 dags, ugh.
stoic needle
Absolutely
brisk flicker
You convinced me oshosi, I'm gonna pvp for my daggers tomorrow then lol.
stoic needle
The base dagger costs 850, and then it's 500, 650 nd 700 honor to upgrade or something like that
If you get lucky that's only a few wins
stoic needle
That's basically what I'm doing rn. Queueing bgs and doing my covenant quest
I enjoy pvp but it's a little bursty atm
brisk flicker
I don't care for PvP, but I'll start caring if it means I don't have to use 155 daggers
stoic needle
Are you horde or alliance?
If you're horde, mercenary queue epic bgs
You have near instant queues and they give more honor
They take longer but they aren't as bad if you don't like to pvp a ton
brisk flicker
I'll keep that in mind since I'm horde
stoic needle
You can do some really funny shit as a rogue in epic battlegrounds
quick cipher
whats everyone going to craft for legendary for raids
brisk flicker
execute
stoic needle
Just backdoor the shit out of everything, it's really effective
quick cipher
ty
stoic needle
I want doomblade to be good but zoldyck is probably gonna be better
quick cipher
lol
vital haven
cant be taken by surprise by blizz that way
supple compass
@balmy condor oh ok so without forcing everything to 184 youre 3.7?
balmy condor
3853 yes
faint harness
im just never craftin a legendary
Thats not never!
river bloom
Yo boys bout to craft a leggie for doomsblade, i do mostly pvp but plan to do mythic+ too, should i run crit/verse or verse/haste on my leggendary?
balmy condor
@vital haven I’ll let you craft on me ;)
vital haven
balmy condor
Yo boys bout to craft a leggie for doomsblade, i do mostly pvp but plan to do my...
Vers/haste definitely better, but you’re gonna replace that doomblade anyway in like 2 weeks so you do you
river bloom
Alright thank you
short hamlet
cant be taken by surprise by blizz that way
This man using my logic
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
lucid stratus
Is venthyr considerred trolling for heroic / casual M ?
jaunty crystal
Nothing is trolling for heroic and casual mythic imo
gilded imp
what missives should i take?
jaunty crystal
Cov choice won’t hold people back at that level
balmy condor
what missives should i take?
Haste vers is a good Choice
rare heart
by the way, do we also want haste for m+ now as well?
tropic rover
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
balmy condor
by the way, do we also want haste for m+ now as well?
Yes
rare heart
thanks, what a time to be alive, at least now I don't need a completely different item set for each content
gritty yoke
sin buffs when bois
balmy condor
Hopefully after heroic week
strange python
sup nerds
we coming back soon?
after heroic week?
right when i get good at sub too fuck
balmy condor
We don’t know
lament dove
bah, I guess I just craft master assassin so either spec gets the bench I'm ok
balmy condor
Or just wait till after heroic week
median aurora
there's like no reason to craft a legendary now, no content is difficult enough that you need it
have patience, see what they do with tuning and go from there
lament dove
that's true...
drifting cloud
at the same time its only 1 week worth of ash in less than 2 weeks
so its not like crafting a r1 lego is going to have any serious impact on anything
you can still make r2 of another lego on mythic week
median aurora
ye its w/e, theres just very little point to doing it prior to then
unless you want the shiny 
real bay
dat ilvl tho
median aurora
that sick r1 ilvl ye boi
narrow sedge
Do you mean they'll nerf sub/outlaw or buff sin after the first week of raid ?
median aurora
no way to know for certain, but sub is slightly ahead and sin is very far behind
so you can make an educated speculation / hope that they will tune sub down slightly and sin up a decent amount
like the difference between the two specs for me with having 184 bis conduits is 652 dps
thats a bit too much of a gap
fiery wigeon
soo, is thorgast that hard for assassination ?, im 183 and i die on the last boss
lament dove
that could depend on the powers and the boss you get
I couldn't kill blob boss as sub in 176 (almost though) - then on the next run I got the same boss but I got a power that instantly halved it's hp...
drifting cosmos
strange python
i doubt they will nerf sub, they are fine outside of kyrian
i think they will nerf kyrian and buff sin
blissful crescent
I think that the buff sin will be automatic because we need haste... a lot of haste... and we will get that as the expansion progresses and in future patches...
This is always the case. No doubt about it. Right now is a problem for example at Torghast... but it's the begin 😄
dawn merlin
Scaling is a myth
strange python
i don't think haste is going to fix our opener, we need SS back
everyone else bursts so hard
the ramp up without ss is just too much
plain thistle
we played a lot on BFA without SS and it wasnt a problem
our rotation is pretty much the same, we just neeed a number tuning
SS is nice, but not necessary for a our rotation
strange python
hmm i don't think everyone was bursting so hard
so we had more time for the rampup probs
and we have much much less hp now
arctic cove
Morning guys! would you pick lethal poisons or well-placed steel as conduit?
strange python
i just don't think we have time to put on our dots before we start chucking them with double envenom
by that time literally any class can just rek you with their burst rotos
probs 90x worse for pve sins
on certain content like torgast
oh and before we can start our burst roto, we have to snd now too
royal lantern
i mean
dot classes are worse then burst classes when stuff dies fast
more news at 8
arctic cove
has anyone here crafted their legendary?
royal lantern
just the current state of things, no hard content, in casual content shit dies when you look at it funny, so everything that has preperation time/windup is "bad"
royal lantern
well, AND assassination is undertuned
strange python
just a ton of cp before you even get to your burst, its too much
and unless everyone is gonna get like a 50k health buff anytime soon
its gonna be broken
lament dove
meanwhile throwing finishers left and right with sub
royal lantern
are you really complaining now that sub is faster then sin?
when sin is SUPPOSED too be slow?
strange python
no
rofl
sin isn't supposed to be slow
you put your dots on then burst
its assasin not lock
royal lantern
.......what spec did you play the last 3 expansions lol
royal lantern
do people think that 8.3 assassination with 200%haste trought corruptions is the "real" assassination?
strange python
that's why they had to make haste scale bleeds
royal lantern
and legion and bfa assassination had close too 0 gameplay differences, just saying 🙂
strange python
and yet sin wasn't performing nearly as well because they didn't add the haste changes until bfa
royal lantern
what
strange python
then sin could actually kill shit
lament dove
I played crit assa in 8.3 and it was great fun, now even I'm playing sub first time since BC when I began WoW with assa...
strange python
they fixed melee in bfa
melee was trash for like 3 expansions
and people started coming back to the game
sorry if you played when it sucked to sin
royal lantern
it feels like you played a different game then everyone else
arctic cove
guys, if i want to switch between sin/sub spec, should i craft the MA?
royal lantern
every single raid in bfa was ranged dominated
and same with m+ except season 2 where outlaw was the non-pluss-ultra
royal lantern
wow
pvp
WHAT
mate
sin was the most played raid spec trought out BFA
(for rogue)
strange python
(for rogue)
ya
the point is sin is broken now
and its insane to think a long rampup is the way haha
when the entire game is tuned diff now
royal lantern
sin is the same it was in legion and bfa, just with Shit&ability now and less stats
turns out
royal lantern
assassination had the most benefits from azerite traits
royal lantern
mate, you talk like they did big changes
lament dove
I don't understand how you can say that sin now is the same like in legion and bfa
royal lantern
when the biggest change was "you get slice%dice"
strange python
haha you're delusional
low girder
Because it is. Barely anything changed lmao.
strange python
we lost so much
strange python
shrouded suffocation
drifting cloud
yeah other classes totally didnt lose azerite traits
strange python
or did you not use azerite?
lament dove
lol dude, as I said I never played sub before this
lament dove
I always played assa, and now it's unenjoyably shit
royal lantern
only assassination lost them
strange python
yeppp switching back to sin now since its the same rofl
royal lantern
it is litearlly the same but with less stats and undertuned dmg lmao
the biggest gameplay difference is SnD
thats it
oh and TB baseline trought shiv
strange python
nah the rampup doubled
manic pebble
wait, you can still use arzerite trait?
strange python
ya
drifting cloud
not just assa
manic pebble
it's still fine for me
strange python
guess what 90% of this discord left sin
manic pebble
I got 2 haste trinkets
strange python
haha
royal lantern
cba with this discord sometimes ngl
all those dh mains that showed up make it horrible
manic pebble
any recommend legendary power for sin?
strange python
as longtime sin players
lament dove
there would be no chat here without this now...