assassination

[balmy condor]

So really just pick what you want

[lean fossil]

first time logging into the next expac lol so time to level to 60 😄

[uncut schooner]

love you all

pls make assa good again.

[fleet whale]

It's disappointing that Sin is infront of some specs in the pre raid ilvl 183 sims

may mean that it won't get buffed

[plain thistle]

they can always nerf outlaw and sub

😂

[fleet whale]

and rogues just become bench warmers?

and i'm more scared they are gonna nerf sub over nerfing kyrian

[rocky ruin]

Just tried sub for the first time in dung im too stupid for sub so im gonna stick with sin

[plain thistle]

you probably just need practice and muscle memory, sub isnt that hard

[snow zenith]

!bis

[plain thistle]

no one cares about bis for assa

[balmy condor]

I'm working on it

there was kyrian changes so now I need to resim

[marble hemlock]

id argue that assa is much more difficult than both sub and outlaw in dungeons :x

[plain thistle]

yeah probably, sub AoE is pretty straightforward

[rocky ruin]

I believe its not hard, but sin feels like a very good friend to and sub like jerk who just by passing

[plain thistle]

and outlaw AoE is just single target with extra steps

[marble hemlock]

playing assa aoe properly without wasting energy/gcds and using correct finisher for each situation is defiitely more involved and situational than bp/fok spam

and yeah

outlaw is just flicking on the BF switch every 13-15sec

[heavy vessel]

Should I be using crimson tempest on single target?

[balmy condor]

no

[velvet ridge]

I just wish my poisons and bleeds were a larger part of our dmg

[balmy condor]

I think poisons are a pretty big portion with snd coming back

but bleeds are definitely underwhelming

and part of the reason why sin is so weak in dungeons

[dim yacht]

anyone else find it weird that red ink in torghast is a white ability

when its essentially 3x more powerful than our bis legendary lol

[balmy condor]

torghast is supposed to be a rogue-like, so there's a lot of unbalanced stuff in there

arcane mage has a thing where arcane blasts from stealth do like 3000% more damage or something

one of my guildmates finished a layer 3 boss at 47k dps

[dim yacht]

oh i get that, i just find it weird that red ink is white for quality

[balmy condor]

yeah idk

[dim yacht]

when it seems like its one of the most powerful torghast abilities we have

[velvet ridge]

Are you guys able to solo layer 3?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[dim yacht]

havent tried, i did it iwth a tank friend

prot pally does more dps than me lol

[balmy condor]

I solo'd both layer 3's

the first one I did at like 142 ilvl or something

was a little rough

did my dungeon runs, went back in at 176 for the second

and stomped

[marble hemlock]

its mostly cause its only usable for 1 spec

getting red ink on outlaw or sub is just sad

meanwhile on assa its an insta-pick

im annoyed by how much they nerfed the peridot

used to be giga bis and now it just procs like once a minute or smth

oftentimes i killed elites without it proccing once

[fleet whale]

red ink is amazing for sin

you know, assassination would be top tier

if you could keep your anima powers!

[marble hemlock]

😄

not really

assa does well in torghast tho

leeching is very nice

[fleet whale]

yes it is underrated for torghast

i find sub to be a bit better but sin is miles ahead of outlaw

[marble hemlock]

being able to kite shit is just big value

like when i did gargoyleboy

had to kite for a while but it definitely saved my ass

[fleet whale]

yeah the gargoyle sucks ass

was able to kill him at 165 ilvl though

wiped on him at 157 (layer 3)

and he's gonna suck even more at higher levels

[marble hemlock]

like

id say

vampire dude, gargoyleboy and the 99% reduced damage taken channeldude

are the worst by far imo

[supple compass]

Flayedwing venom benefits from the Same modifiers our normal poisons do right

[marble hemlock]

id be very surprised if it did

none of our abilities are global damage increases, instead they use a whitelist system where blizzard adds specific skills or abilities to work with our mastery, vendetta, shiv etc.

historically, trinkets were never part of those lists

[supple compass]

Legion they did though

Moonglaives with dfa sub

But I think that’s probs why they took them off

[marble hemlock]

thats different

cause sub rogues dmg increases are, for the most part, global dmg increases

[balmy condor]

not affected with anything on sin rogue from what I can see

shiv might work

[supple compass]

Oh good point, my bad

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, ship from antorus working with firemage or glaives with sub

[balmy condor]

its flagged as nature damage

not sure though

[marble hemlock]

was definitely part of the reason why they went with whitelisting abilities instead of applying global buffs

[balmy condor]

I'll test if it works with shiv in a second here

might not have been whitelisted for it, similar to the last tick of sepsis

[marble hemlock]

imagine having any trinket

full hc+m0 clear, not a single trinket 🙂

or weapon, for that matter

[fleet whale]

does dance and symbols still buff everything for sub

cause for example it buffs sepsis and other covenant abilities

just checked on wowhead, looks like it doesn't

[supple compass]

Are y’all using dslice or 5targets 2mins

[balmy condor]

dslice

[bleak glacier]

whispyr are you building 2 leggos for sin and sub?

[balmy condor]

yes

I'm doing finality and zoldyck

[vestal wren]

Assassination:

[neat plank]

why is the Redirected Anima buff you get from Sepsis not mentioned anywhere on any tooltips? where does this come from ;O

is it even from Sepsis?

ok maybe its not so trash after all :p

oooooooooh its from the soulbind-,-

[balmy condor]

yeah, that's reinv grove from the top of niya

and its implemented in sims and everything just fine

all working as intended :D

[neat plank]

good, I can stay with my brother butterflies ❤️

[loud mason]

i really want to play assi, but is it so bad that im gona be like 1k dps in dungeons or?

[balmy condor]

its about 1200 according to dungeonslice

in full bis

[loud mason]

oh god

[neat plank]

lol

:>

what do you like about it so much?

[loud mason]

applying poisons, poison bomb, vendetta cd, the zoldyck legendary

[fleet whale]

it has a nice theme assassin does

just no damage

[loud mason]

i like sub to, but it has so much stuff to look out for lol

[dim yacht]

how is it 1k dps? im doing more than that now

i do something like 2k. not great but more than 1.2k

[bleak glacier]

is there a way i can test cov abilities again without changing cov?

[worldly fable]

Yeah, talk to the NPCs at Oribos

[wraith kestrel]

Ptr possibly?

[worldly fable]

Oh, "Without changing"

[balmy condor]

no

[balmy condor]

I meant 1200 behind sub

[bleak glacier]

lame.

[balmy condor]

guess I should specify for you as well, 1200 behind sub, not 1200. 5600 vs 6800ish

[dim yacht]

oh my bad

i was like what lol

[balmy condor]

no

that's my fault

completely

[knotty bear]

I swear when i changed cov it offered a way to test... or maybe it was just to see their mog etc. again

[loud mason]

aaah

is that theyr current bis ? or raid gear bis ?

do you also have this list, would love to look at it

[balmy condor]

raid bis

I'm still working on the spreadsheet

it'll be a !bis command soon

just gotta do more sims :P

[loud mason]

also does anyone know the way those chests with runes work in thorgast

feels like they just dont make any sence lol

[upper wasp]

there's a macro for replace Mutilate to ambush when blindside proc?

[crimson palm]

[marble hemlock]

@vestal wren those emeni sims with 2 or 4 nearby allies?

[vestal wren]

4 for patchwork, 2 for dungeon slice

[marble hemlock]

kk

[vestal wren]

the individual soulbind sims have 2 and 4 for patwerk

[marble hemlock]

yeah saw those, just wondering what the approach is when the amount of allies isnt specifically mentioned

[loud mason]

btw it really bad to run poison bomb on m0 ?

[fleet whale]

no it's fine

[prisma yoke]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[daring karma]

!STATS

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[knotty bear]

how has there been 2 sword and a fist wep for WQ rewards and 2 swords for adventure table lmao

feels real good to have 0 daggers drop in dungeons too

[fleet whale]

i got lucky with two heroic dungeon dagger drops

if you're weapon rng is so shit though, you can always do random bgs

[knotty bear]

yeah think i may have to

blizz just wants me to play OL

gave me celerity first time in the dungeon'

[jolly helm]

hows assa doing in m+ this expansion, i have been feeling it to be very slow without proper haste

[balmy condor]

very poorly

its undertuned quite a bit

[worldly fable]

Do they generally buff classes during heroic week?

[balmy condor]

yes

that's what we're praying for here in the church of assassination

praise be our savior ion

[worldly fable]

I was looking forward to playing necrolord sin

[balmy condor]

you can play necrolord

[worldly fable]

But if the situation goes as is then I think I'll just stay as necrolord outlaw

[balmy condor]

wouldn't suggest sin though

[worldly fable]

Yes

[haughty olive]

how bad is it it compared to sub

[fleet whale]

quite bad

to the point where people might think you are trolling if you are rolling as sin

[lament dove]

I'm not sure if it's a tuning problem tbh, it's just that assa scales with haste and crit so well and now we don't have either so the spec just doesn't work, no energy, no combopoints
sub is a combopoint heaven, it got more skills and talents that help on the situation while assa doesn't really have that
the difference is so big in that regard it's unreal

[fleet whale]

it's def tuning

[lament dove]

well in this form it still wouldn't be fun to play assa like this if it would do more dmg imho

it's the definition of clunky

[fleet whale]

it's really only cps that's the issue, from low crit

apm wise it's actually FASTER when compared to other expansion starts

[lament dove]

that's what I said:)

[fleet whale]

but that is no different than any other expansion start for assassin

it was clunky as balls in uldir too, yet it did more damage

[lament dove]

dunno, I played assa since I began wow in BC and I don't remember being this unfun

[fleet whale]

your likely just so used to how sin felt during NYA

that you really feel down now with all that stuff lost

SnD does fuck with the flow a bit i will say that

[haughty olive]

idk if its being used to super high haste or what but it feels like theres too much delay between spells

[fleet whale]

put it this way

assassin apm with heroic Uldir gear was like 38 APM

right now my 166 rogue... apm is at 45

[dry chasm]

i got problem with energy

[balmy condor]

we all do

[dry chasm]

oh

[gleaming eagle]

question

does versatility increase poison dmg too?

[balmy condor]

it increases everything, yes

[gleaming eagle]

is that the best stat for pvp?

or haste still better for pvp

[balmy condor]

no idea

I don't think anyone's doing pvp sin rogue theorycrafting

with how bad it is

[gleaming eagle]

im doing fine tbh lol

but then again theres no rating so

[plain jewel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fleet whale]

idk as sin

i felt like i could do nothing in pvp

sub i can at least deal damage

[abstract helm]

I have been combat so far, but I am assassin at heart and I am considering switching over before I build my legendary and get locked in

on spec that they buff it

[balmy condor]

We all hope man

Just gotta keep praying

[dry chasm]

on level 3 torghast i tale the rare buff 30% agility and no jump

i fail to glide later

xD

[lapis rain]

Picked up sin rogue with necrolord cov as my first alt.

The AoE rotation is so hectic, and disappointingly low damage even when you pull it off 😦

A lot of fun though 😄

[dry chasm]

where i find

where i find it

[somber musk]

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the AoE rotation basically fan of knives until ~4combo points, then babysitting rupture? talking extended periods of 6+ mobs here

[balmy condor]

Hakkar in de other side

[balmy condor]

Yes

That’s the tldr

[lapis rain]

Do we not keep up SnD?

[dry chasm]

thankk u

[balmy condor]

We keep up snd until 6

[lapis rain]

Hmmm, now it has me questioning whether keeping up bone knives was a dps increase

[balmy condor]

Keeping up what now

[somber musk]

so when you're at 6+ for extended period of times, i really feel like i cannot spend my energy fast enough, spamming fan of knives until 4 and then rupture on all targets i pretty much stayed energy capped

[lapis rain]

The necrolord cov ability that I know I shouldn't have picked but I did anyway

[somber musk]

i went necrolord because i like it :p i think it's fun

[balmy condor]

You can weave envenoms in at that point, and you should be playing CT in dungeons, that should keep you busy

Oh necro is fine

[somber musk]

ahh i didn't think about CT, thanks

[balmy condor]

“Bone knives” is just what confused me

[lapis rain]

yeah I can't remember the actual ability name

[balmy condor]

You should be getting those sbs casts out yeah

[lapis rain]

Yeah I mean I main an mm hunter - so compared to that the rogue aoe rotation is a lot more... involved.

[balmy condor]

With necro, I think it’s 3x gar, CT, and then start weaving sbs in with rupture casts

[grizzled jay]

bone knives

[pliant apex]

anyone playing sin for raids?

[balmy condor]

I’m gonna try it yeah

If it’s really really bad, I’ll play sub

[pliant apex]

hmm

ill eagerly await your findings

[balmy condor]

I don’t have findings xD

I’m not a giga raider

So I don’t really need that damage for a week 2 CE or something

But it’ll also be normal/heroic raids

So it mega doesn’t matter if I play sin in there

If we need the damage for mythic, then I guess rip

[vocal cloud]

pray for that hotfix

[main forge]

I am hoping for a buff or two. But planning on playing sin, if it doesn't work out.... well my legendary and conduits have been dropping for outlaw like crazy so.... I'll play that.

[fleet whale]

yeah idk what's going on with these drops

seem to always get swords and outlaw conduits lol

[old snow]

well tried out sub and the dmg is insane, but i hate how it feels

[stone dragon]

Same.

[old snow]

i hate the fact that if your shadow dance is on cd you are abosulty usless, your not even a character

you are a critter

with assa you always do dmg, with vendeta you do bigger dmg but without it you are still consitent

[stone dragon]

Anyone got some sims for Assasination, with Dashing Scoudrel + Zoldyck Insignia Legendary comparasons for first week?.

[old snow]

and also not to mention that somehow, it feel even more brain dead, 90% of the time you are just pressing shadowstrike and evis

[pliant apex]

Can’t agree more

[dim estuary]

god I just want to play sin but i'm mainly doing dungeons 😢

[pliant apex]

You’re dud without SD charges, it’s horrible leveling, wq, bgs etc

You go thud thud clunk with backstab while it recharges at 35 energy I HATE it

I believe outlaw can compete with sub somewhat

[dim estuary]

you talking raid wise ?

[pliant apex]

Ya

Can it

[dim estuary]

looking at fuus spreadsheet, it looks like

[young pebble]

Any of you spend stigia yet or saving up for sockets?

None of the bonuses look terribly useful for assassin or even the other specs

[steep badger]

careful when throwing shade at how sub can feel mindless, the sublitists may come from the shadows and drop their fury. After playing sin since basically tbc and playing sub now I honestly feel like its just a different flavor, yes more apms but multi target cleave sin is IMO more work to get right...

(awaiting a dagger in my back)

[bold ice]

I feel weak as hell on my rogue but he’s a 145 nooblet

[fleet whale]

sub is probably the best spec for leveling and right now world content

and i say this as someone who has mained sin since like mop

[strange python]

*teleports behind @steep badger

[main forge]

anyone know what trinkets we should be aimming to get preraid?

[balmy condor]

#tc-research message

:)

[main forge]

aww sweet perfect!

[balmy condor]

I wonder if the command works

!bis

Not yet unlucky

[steep badger]

whisp whisp, i see a smile

what's sub tho

[balmy condor]

if you see a smile you should wipe it off

this is sub from miki's sheet

this is sin from my sheet

(I stole his layout cause I was too lazy to make my own )

its still not great

even if the number looks big

there's always a bigger fish

[grizzled jay]

double on-use huh

[balmy condor]

where

[grizzled jay]

Heraldy + Dreadfire Vessel

[balmy condor]

heraldry is an equip

[sterile talon]

Thats not on use

[grizzled jay]

i thought it was on-use 🤔

neato

[woven summit]

sin will be back!

[grizzled jay]

is it bis even if you are the only one with it

[balmy condor]

a lot of trinkets aren't implemented yet

lotta disclaimers

[fleet whale]

@balmy condor but i was told that sin scales better than sub, and would overtake it with mythic gear!

/s

[balmy condor]

actually true

it scales better with buffs

by that I mean, its getting some, and sub isn't

[fleet whale]

in fact the inverse is true

that gap gets larger favoring sub with more raid gear...

[balmy condor]

yeah

well

kinda

[fleet whale]

it's like 800 from pre raid isn't it

[balmy condor]

miki used a couple of gems and stuff in his sims, and I think he used whetstones and stuff as well

I just used base enchants and gear with no gems

so you can pretty comfortably knock maybe 200dps onto all my sims

it does make sin look worse when you put the sheets side by side like that, but

I don't really like adding gems to things when we all know rng won't give them anyway

and by nature of top gear I would have to add the whetstones to all the bag pieces and stuff, and if someone imports their gear into it for their own testing and stuff, it wouldn't compare accurately

[steep badger]

question i think will really be in mastery scaling

[balmy condor]

so I just left all that stuff out for clarity

[fleet whale]

i don't think mastery is gonna save sin

[balmy condor]

mastery indeed does not save sin

[steep badger]

I'm not claiming it will "saVE"

sin

I'm saying I think it scales better than subs mast, but we'd need another miracle

[fleet whale]

debatable

[balmy condor]

in fact if you look at that sheet, you'll see that the upgrades from going from a raid-only to a raid+dungeon set

[steep badger]

fair

[balmy condor]

is the difference of losing mastery

for other stats

[low girder]

why scale with mastery when you can just get haste and do basically the same + energy gains

[steep badger]

that's where math comes in

[balmy condor]

I mean, there's a point to be had

with full haste gear, you can sort of scratch at the first DR threshold

so there's technically a world where mastery is better

but you gotta shoot haste in the leg pretty hard to make that happen

[steep badger]

when you fall under the soft floor

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna say "realistically unlikely"

[steep badger]

I think of it like the hit days

when you lose x amount, its not worth, which is why basic stats have exclusive values per char

but yeah its a circle argument

[fleet whale]

also secondary stats aren't what makes specs "scale"

it's damage profiles and how they interact with whatever powers that are present

[steep badger]

well i mean yeah

if you can't hit the boss you can't do dmg

[low girder]

he means systems

not necessarily boss mechanics

[balmy condor]

shrouded suff and echoing blades for example

[low girder]

sin's interactions with the borrowed powers are uh

lacking

to say the least

[steep badger]

solid analogy whisp, paints the pic

and yeah that goes back to the BP bandaid to balance shotgun wounds in bfa

[fleet whale]

well some specs got to carry over borrowed stuff to SL

havoc for example

or some specs got significant change

sub and outlaw

sin got neither

[steep badger]

yeah someone had it out for us, can't imagine it was an oversight

[fleet whale]

i think Sin is sort of spec a lot of people took for granted during SL development

[steep badger]

blackpowders salt in the wound of how busted ct is

[fleet whale]

I've seen countless "tier list" vids putting sin in B tier right now

with their only comment being "sin has vendetta, it's a good cd"

like vendetta is everyone's argument for sin being good

[steep badger]

dude those are so cringeworthy

they're all parrots

garuntee half of them never played the spec

[fleet whale]

i wonder how many sin parses there are gonna be in nathria

and if it will be as bad as post zul nerf sub in terms of parse count

[balmy condor]

it'll be pretty bad I think

[steep badger]

I'd think feb we might see some relevant numbers. Can't think of any hardo pushing guilds rolling a sin rogue

less we have a secret hero amoung us that proves the meta wrong

[balmy condor]

depends on heroic tuning

but currently, you're not gonna see some top 100 world sin rogue

[drifting cloud]

it will be bad, it was bad in prepatch already and there was probably shitloads of people who cbad to respec like me 😄

[fleet whale]

@balmy condor unless if there is some niche gimmick thing that will allow sin to shine for one boss

[balmy condor]

I don't see it

even on sire with the sword cleave

outlaw just does it better

like idk man

sustain cleave, sustain aoe, sustain single target, sporadic prio adds, sporadic trash adds, sporadic cleave

[fleet whale]

i was just memeing man

[balmy condor]

don't get my hopes up like that D:

[low girder]

9.1 New Assassination Conduit: Planned ExecutionAssassination: You gain (4-10)% Critical Strike chance after using Shiv

[fleet whale]

yeah when we already have well placed steel

[low girder]

would be fitting

[fleet whale]

i'm looking at my Kingslayer's artifact interface, all traits are there but all greyed out

and it's making me sad 😦

[low girder]

the powers in the neck still work but you can't swap them

lol

'cause it's greyed out in the same way

jk i can switch them, weird.

wonder why it wasn't letting me before, even though i was in org the last time

[fleet whale]

you should be able to swap in azeroth

but not in the shadowlands

[low girder]

yeah i was in org when i tried last time but it was greyed out

must've been bug

[fleet whale]

but i got a 171 honor necklace

so i'm not wearing HoA anymore lol

[low girder]

i got a 148 with a socket

so i threw a +18 agi in it

and it destroys everything

[fleet whale]

yeah but your ilvl

[low girder]

lol

i have a 160 something in bag

it helps

[fleet whale]

yeah that's the free one

[low girder]

yeah

[fleet whale]

you get from questing

SL so far is a complete 180 in terms of secondary stats compared to bfa

like agi is king By farrrrrr

[grizzled jay]

I'm using the 151 with a +16 haste gem.

I got the +18 agi in my ring and +15agi in something else

[jaunty cloak]

How big of a difference between the covenant abilities are there ?

[fleet whale]

not big at all

[jaunty cloak]

so i can go venth without feeling super underwelmed?

[balmy condor]

2.76% from top to bottom in bis gear

[jaunty cloak]

ty

[balmy condor]

np

[jaunty cloak]

really wasnt feeling kyrian lol

[balmy condor]

I was mega feeling kyrian until I played sub

[fleet whale]

lol the sub chat is basically kyrian or die

even though even after the apl changes

[jaunty cloak]

its an alt for me so was looking more at the armor aspect

[fleet whale]

it's still not that large of a gap

and the gap gets smaller and smaller with more renown

[jaunty cloak]

awesome

[stable holly]

How is assassination feeling so far? I'm sub thinking of swapping, but wanted to know if ASS is hangin' in there

[fleet whale]

as a die hard assassin fan

stay sub

[balmy condor]

its too slow for a lot of people

but the main problem is the ramp time in aoe, and just general undertuning across the board

so

[fleet whale]

i guess most sin rogues just started playing the spec in 8.3

[balmy condor]

yeah

no one remembers the before-memory days

[fleet whale]

hot take

i enjoyed antorus sin way more than NYA assassin

[stable holly]

I've played Sin since Warlords. Love the playstyle, but sub was too attractive this xpac

[balmy condor]

I enjoyed antorus sin more as well

[fleet whale]

It's why i get sad when i look at my kingslayers...

speaking of which, i think blizz should add like 15% additional crit baseline for mut

it would serve as a little buff but also smooth things out a bit

[untold spruce]

i don't understand something about legendaries,the sims in the pins shows they are close to each other,yet guides say that things like doomblade and dashing are underwhelming cause the others are way stronger

likeee what do i have to believe xD?

[balmy condor]

so the reasons the pins say legendaries are close and guides suggest otherwise is because the suggesting is made around the content, and the pins are based on sim results

doomblade and dashing are very close in single target, but when you have aoe, doomblade obviously loses a ton of value, as does dashing due to multi-dotting

so the guides probably all suggest zoldyck

which is slightly behind in single target, but ahead in cleave and aoe

also useful as an all around legendary for raids and m+, rather than dashing on single target, doomblade on single target, zoldyck on aoe, etc

[untold spruce]

ooh,well that makes much more sense

thanks alot!

[balmy condor]

my pleasure

(by zoldyck being slightly behind, I mean like un-noticeably slightly)

[sick scarab]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kTAX2J2uvdxCiapyLFbvVp

i cry lol

[vestal wren]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list:http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[sick scarab]

do we know the rotation of thorgast ? to drop zoldyck ?

[balmy condor]

I don't think so

[sick scarab]

so about craft legendary.. what do you think ? better to wait first week of mitich raid ?

so we see the tuning blizz will do

[balmy condor]

I'm personally waiting

I'm probably crafting finality first, since I play sub in m+

[sick scarab]

i think same

[balmy condor]

so I need to kill denathrius first anyway XD

[sick scarab]

🙂

btw do you like sub ? i mean playstyle..

or prefer assa playstylewise ?

[balmy condor]

I prefer sin

but it feels really bad in dungeons, and is really undertuned

and that's my main content

[south drum]

I really haven't felt that but maybe I been "lucky" with my group as I been on par with the other DPS on thrash and ahead on bosses

[balmy condor]

yeah in heroics and stuff it can keep up a little

the first couple seconds with 3x subt garrotes, it does fine

the problem is when they drop off

and on bosses

[gleaming eagle]

BUFF incoming

[balmy condor]

🙏

@marble hemlock relevant.

[gleaming eagle]

wait so how do you guys cast vendetta without breaking stealth again?

heard theres a macro for that?

[balmy condor]

vendetta breaks stealth on cast, I don't think there's a way to get around it

haven't heard of it at least

[quasi ledge]

Pretty sure it doesn't, or at least doesn't with Subterfuge or something for example. I've definitely accidently Vendetta'd a mob while stealthing past or waiting to pull and not broken stealth.

[stone dragon]

It's not, Vendetta was taken off GCD, in prepatch this means you can macro it alongside trinkets/quick items :)
I'm a die hard Assasination Player, heres my sim.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6DNmoirJquTkgPF14VQjEj

[atomic gate]

Sin is just weak as hell

[balmy condor]

You could macro trinkets and stuff into vendetta before as well

[atomic gate]

Just for shits and giggles the same gear on my sin dimmed at 2900 and when run as Sub dimmed at 3450

[balmy condor]

Since those are off gcd

Only difference is now you’re casting vendetta between gcd’s instead of it using one

[stone dragon]

When you want to be comparable in AoE - Elaborate planning + Posison bomb
-- in the current heroics/Early mythics mobs are dieing way to fast thus, DoT are less Valuable (burst is key)
--Once M+ rolls out Crimson Tempest + Elaborate planning will help Sin stay affloat, you will have to put out more ruptures 3+ targets. We'll have to work harder but the return will be sweet.

--Verse is strong in these early stages of the game, we may want to test more with those numbers.
--Haste Crit was "ok", but we might be seeing Verse + Crit come into play with Haste as 3rd. After a "soft" cap Crit.

[balmy condor]

I agree on the first two points

[stone dragon]

this reminds me of Legion numbers actually.

[balmy condor]

But the stat stuff isn’t panning out like that

[stone dragon]

Too bad exanguinate has died.

[balmy condor]

Vers is strong, but there’s no crit breakpoint, and haste seems to only fall behind naturally as a side effect of stacking more stats, instead of a breakpoint

[atomic gate]

Wait crit doesn't diminish like the other stats?

[balmy condor]

All the stats kinda narrow into one big mess from what I’ve tested

[stone dragon]

Not yet @atomic gate

[balmy condor]

All stats diminish

You can see those numbers in my sheet, I have a section to the side

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

But that doesn’t impact stat rating

All 4 stats are really close for sin

We’re just slamming haste atm, and then it’s a big toss up

[atomic gate]

That sounds kinda dope if we get an aura buff

Wouldn't change stat difference too much

[balmy condor]

Yeah is really just whatever comes your way

[atomic gate]

I like the idea of just slamming any gear and not seeking certain pieces

[stone dragon]

I was expecting some freaky posion/nature damage increases through combos like "Master poisoner, LEathal poisons, Scoudel (legendary)"

This may just be a dream tho.

[balmy condor]

Master poisoner is really bad

I don’t quite remember the number but I think it’s around 2%

[stone dragon]

It's not that great isolated i agree. but im refering to everything around it, coming up.

[balmy condor]

That’s 2% with combinations like you mentioned

In a vacuum it’s worse than that

[scarlet meteor]

So is it confirmed that sin will get a buff or is it speculation? Last time I played it it felt clunky

[balmy condor]

Speculation

We don’t know if buffs happen until they do

[scarlet meteor]

What changes would you like to see?

[balmy condor]

Personally hoping for a rupture buff alongside an aura buff. Fok giving 2cp baseline would be nice too, but idk about the fok part

Could cause some unintended side effects

So I think the better solution is to change Katar to scale the crit chance as well as the damage

[scarlet meteor]

It'd be cool if FoK generated cp like shuriken storm does

[balmy condor]

That is also a solution :P

Would kind of invalidate seal fate as a passive in aoe

But would definitely help

[low girder]

scale off poison procs instead of crits?

makes envenom worth keeping up in aoe more

which may or may not be janky

[balmy condor]

That could work, but also invalidates the crit mechanic

[low girder]

yeah i'd want that in combination with some sort of EB mechanic

[balmy condor]

I kinda don’t like fok as a main damage source being a part of sins rotation

But given the constraints of the spec I think it’s the only way out atm

[low girder]

i don't either, EB doesn't necessarily have to be tied to FoK i suppose

[balmy condor]

Until it gets a redesign

If you make it dot based, it screws with the single target ecosystem

Bleeds in aoe, poisons in single target is always seli’s idea

And I tend to agree

But it’s a little difficult making that work atm

[low girder]

yeah true

[balmy condor]

Fok is just such a weird spell to fit in

Cause it doesn’t do damage, but it also doesn’t generate enough cp to feed the rupture spam

And it spreads poisons, but the poisons don’t do any damage either

Really weird imo

It wants to do so many things

And instead doesn’t do any of them properly

[real bay]

assa being so far behind its almost guaranteed to get a buff / higher specs nerfed

[low girder]

i wouldn't bet money on sub getting (pve) nerfs

[real bay]

not talking about rogues only

[balmy condor]

Yeah I can see some ranged specs getting nerfed a little

I think sub and outlaw are fine, sin might see a buff

[real bay]

MM with 10k aimed shots lmao

[balmy condor]

But honestly no clue

[low girder]

think it'll be rather significant, whether it'll be enough to actually get played over the other two idk

prolly not

[balmy condor]

Sin honestly in the grand scale doesn’t even seem that bad

Which is scary

Sub is above average, sin is below average

But neither one is really on the ends of the spectrum

[low girder]

i have my eyes more on the ranged vs melee discrepancies

[real bay]

buff our bleeds and fok

[low girder]

feel like sin might just get a flat 8%

or something

[balmy condor]

Understated

[low girder]

and they'll call it even

[balmy condor]

Flat 10 would be fine as well

Would still be behind

But it would have viability

At least in raids

[stone dragon]

it was doomed once they gave all specs Poisons + rupture, then I knew Sin was dieing

[low girder]

would put it above outlaw on ST so it'll at least find a niche, yeah

[balmy condor]

M+ is a mess

[low girder]

M+ is just doomed lol

[balmy condor]

Giving all specs poison and rupture isn’t why sin is bad

[low girder]

hopefully in a future patch

[balmy condor]

But I guess it’s a sign of lack of attention from blizzard

Which is sad

[stone dragon]

but its taking away from the classes identy by making more generic

and harder to balance

[balmy condor]

I disagree

[low girder]

we had poisons on all 3 specs for over a decade

i think it's fine

[real bay]

blizz can balance everything per spec

[balmy condor]

I think instant poisons and snd have been the rogue identity for a long time

Sin still has stronger poisons and bleeds, garrote, envenom, crimson tempest, poison bomb

[low girder]

in general in legion (and by extension bfa) went too hard on the spec fantasy instead of the class fantasy. for all intents and purposes i switch classes when i change from outlaw to sub

[balmy condor]

To firmly have its identity as the dot poison spec

[low girder]

it's a little better now

[balmy condor]

Anyways, good chat, I’m gonna head to bed, like @low girder shouldve like 5 hours ago

[low girder]

nah i worked last night. i prolly should try to sleep soon though

[balmy condor]

Oof

Good luck

[low girder]

tyty

[tender folio]

I rly hope we get buffed 😦

[pliant apex]

idk what id do

i spent all this time being sub to 60

and its crap

thud thud clunk when sd isnt up

thud thud clunk

ima slap backstab

[timber loom]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[spice spire]

I personally don’t enjoy sub gameplay but it’s the best in terms of damage. I’m currently 180, not gemmed or enchanted and barely pulling 2.7k, while mage friends are 168 doing the same. Sin definitely needs tuning.

[vestal wren]

then more i play it then more i disslike the shadow dance duration/stack changes

it feels a lot less dynamic (i like dynamic gameplay)

[thorn echo]

It's crazy punishing too

if you end up on (move out mechanic) in shadowdance your trash tier

[plain thistle]

what I dont like about sub is how shit backstab is

same with outlaw, sinister strike without a proc multiple times is just infuriating

[thorn echo]

^!

[tropic ocean]

m+ is a joke compared to these torghast stuff

get good animas and 30% pot, finish boss in 10 sec

dont get good powers and no dmg pot, unable to kill boss

while hunters just

[real bay]

waiting for the day they get nerfed to the ground

pets get 1 shot by boss

[sick scarab]

agree i really dont like sub.. fuck sub and fuck fotm 🙂

[vestal wren]

i like subtlety

but i disslike some of the changes

[tropic ocean]

so far only have issue with the grand malleur or what hes called he seems super bugged

stacking so fast dropping 5k auto attacks

I cant kill him if I dont have the right anima power/30% pot

🤷

[dry atlas]

Rogue anima powers are pretty lacking compared to other classes

[tropic ocean]

kinda yeah

I just pray for all cooldowns+cd reset one, then its kinda ok

[dry chasm]

i take this

[pliant apex]

how do i fit in venthyr ability with rotation

also, does vanish people part of our rotation now

opps sorry wrong channle, meant to ask about sub

[sonic spindle]

I tried some sin last night, the numbers 100% felt bad, but the flow felt off and the energy regen felt non-existent. I can’t tell if I’m imagining it because I expect it to be bad or not.

[tacit night]

Is there a priority list for the Anima Powers in Torghast, or do you just go by rarity?

[ornate dawn]

Nah man its hella bad, feels ever so slightly better with more haste but still you have to work hard to get anywhere decent in the meters. I got smashed in a dungeon by a sub rogue (trash and bosses) with way worse gear and im 180..... feelsbadman

[eager needle]

Wondering if anyone can tell me if I’m doing something wrong.. when playing solo if I use vanish, the enemies disengage from fight, heal to full and I have to start again... anyway to avoid this or do I just have to suck it up when playing solo and not use vanish?

[real bay]

that's just how it is unless someone else has aggro on them too

[eager needle]

Ah that sucks, screwed me more than a few times that has 😂 would be nice if it gave a few second window for you to re-engage

[earnest pumice]

pick everything ST dps

[sonic spindle]

I was hoping SnD energy would make it feel better, but it doesn’t. I can usually tell when I forget to reapply my poison, because the energy regen is so slow... well it feels like that all the time even with SnD and venomous wounds proccing. Energy regen never felt this bad to me and I level as sin usually.

I’m proud of you guys who can stick with it, your willpower is stronger than mine.

[quasi scroll]

So Echoing Reprimand, just makes a random one of your CP empowered? Or is there some strategy/timing to it?

I guess if you have 3, press EP, you now have the 5th CP animacharged?

[plain thistle]

no

its random, 2-3 or 4

[quasi scroll]

ah ok

at least I'm not crazy

I guess we use it on cooldown?

[plain thistle]

yeah, and you have 45s to "consume" the anime charge

[balmy condor]

ANIME CHARGE

[real bay]

ayayaa

[deep wharf]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[ebon thorn]

!SIMS

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[ebon thorn]

!sim

!raidbots

was there a custom script you could sim

[balmy condor]

That would be in bot spam

I would advise against it though

It doesn’t read covenant stuff from armory

So simming through the webpage with your simc paste will always be better

[maiden halo]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[sonic spindle]

This channel being so dead is breaking my heart.

I feel like we should have gotten a shrouded suffocation legendary, or echoing blades.

Some of those good azerite traits we lost.

[random comet]

yep

[craggy wave]

merp. I feel so bad but I’ve been playing solely assassination since cata and I feel like switching specs or leveling a different character lol

[sonic spindle]

I’m in the same boat, sin since wotlk. I found an old video of my UI from saurfang in ICC, god I was so bad then.

I just can’t do it, it’s so bad and sub does such better numbers even if I spaghetti all over myself

[fallen slate]

I'm still bad it feels like with how bad our DPS is 😂

I've mained 'sin since WotLK as well

tried combat and hated it

RtB felt gimmicky

[sonic spindle]

I just can’t get over it, like the sub was silky smooth and felt good and somehow they destroyed it.

[fallen slate]

I'm frustrated with the clunky feelingcurrently

getting mobs down pretty quick(ish) and then just struggling to finish them

AoE not great

[balmy condor]

definitely needs some love

I'm with you man

playing sub in dungeons atm

just feels so much better

[fallen slate]

Torgast lvl 2 right after dinging 60 is nigh impossible

[balmy condor]

oh yeah

I did layer 3 at 140 ilvl

was not a fun time

[fallen slate]

I thoguht it might scale a little better

lvl 1 wasn't too bad to clear

[balmy condor]

my runs at like 175 were much nicer

[fallen slate]

cleared everything in 2 fine

got to the end

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[balmy condor]

I feel like it might be scaled in steps of like 15ilvl per layer

somewhere around there

[fallen slate]

Haven't had a lot of time to dink around after hitting 60 with the kiddo and wife aggro

but finally hit 155 to start doing heroics and going to try lvl 2 again tonight

[balmy condor]

yeah should be doable

I believe in you

[craggy wave]

I’m at 160 ilvl and cleared the floors of lvl 3 with no problem but I got wrecked on the final boss 6 times and gave up

He was taking like 20% of my health every melee

[fallen slate]

yep

exactly what happened to me

felt like the last boss is SERIOUSLY overtuned

[gleaming eagle]

whats your hp?

[balmy condor]

the end boss is randomized to some extent, I had a couple guildmates also struggle with some, but I didn't encounter them

[craggy wave]

22.4k

[gleaming eagle]

i did just fine

[balmy condor]

some are definitely worse than others

[gleaming eagle]

im wearing pvp gears

168 ilvl though

24k hp and that trinket that gives 7k hp helps

[craggy wave]

It was observer zelgar? I believe. I tried to interrupt as many times as I could but I could only do about 50% of his health before getting rolled

[balmy condor]

yeah if you're struggling, I would suggest more gear, and then keep going at it until you have a good run for your anima powers

[craggy wave]

Yeah. I’ve seen so many people get lucky on anima powers and critting for 500k and I’m just like 😮

[near magnet]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[indigo tusk]

Assassination on arenna is ok ? Il not like sub

[main forge]

I could not defeat the boss of layer 2 solo at probably 150 ilvl or so, even with decent anima powers, I would run out of self heals was the reason I was dying. At 170 ilvl though with crappy anima powers I did pull 6k-8k dps though. If I could do it over again, I'd probably take a healer with me. I went with an elemental shaman that did some offheals, but still got too close to death with the WORST anima powers 2x in a row i swear.

TLDR; Do Torghast with a friend, it can be more fun, and can balance out and be a boon to you.(I'm thinking assassination rogue will pair best with a healer, tank, or a melee DPS that can offtank)

[lone junco]

@balmy condor how we feeling as Assassin going into raid? yall jump ship to Sub yet?

[balmy condor]

I'm not feelin too hot

but I'll try it

[lone junco]

balance and youll be in position to be king again.. right?

enjoyed disc a bit last night, when i solod the Layer 3 boss. was good times.

[balmy condor]

perhaps

depends on the buffs

really don't know

[dry chasm]

you gonna make legendaries this week or next?

[balmy condor]

I'm personally doing finality first

and idk when zoldyck shows up

so It'll be whenever that happens

[dry chasm]

and something else, if i go torghast layer 3 for drop zoldyck and doomblade

[balmy condor]

but I'll wait till mythic week to craft

[dry chasm]

the names is from bosses or from dungeons?

[balmy condor]

its from the wings

specific wings

like how you got blunderbuss this week

that wing guarantees it

[dry chasm]

where i see the name of this week

[balmy condor]

hover over torg

[woven summit]

Just a quick one, does Outlaw sim better at ST than Sin?

[balmy condor]

yes

[woven summit]

Aight ty

[dry chasm]

is this

[woven summit]

Might try it then because really cant play sub

[dry chasm]

?

[balmy condor]

yeah, that's the floor currently available

[thick briar]

If you compare Assassination vs Sub in SL, what are their flaws/perks?

[balmy condor]

sub is better at everything

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

sin is worse at everything

its a very easy pro/con list

[thick briar]

ah

[woven summit]

How close is Outlaw to Sub tho?

Know different channel but It's a bit relatable to sin as well topic wise lol

[dry chasm]

im assasination

should i go sub?

[woven summit]

Yeah

If you dont mind playing sub

And if you plan to raid mythic

[plain thistle]

[woven summit]

But you never know, maybe they will buff assassination ST at least

But I doubt it will become good in m+ like it was in BFA

[thick briar]

cause i feel ass single target is okay but they dont have any aoe, while sub have both

[woven summit]

Don't know how close the specs are single target

[plain thistle]

right now even in single target we arent OK

[woven summit]

Yeah it sucks

[plain thistle]

[woven summit]

It's like Blizzard just want to bring subtlety back

[normal olive]

tried to do one dungeon as assa

instantly respeced to sub

[balmy condor]

15% behind outlaw/sub for sin atm

[woven summit]

yikes

How about Outlaw vs Sub?

[dry chasm]

sup prob

[balmy condor]

sub is ahead like 5% i think

not much

[woven summit]

cool

at least I have an alternative

[balmy condor]

loses on 2-6 mobs I think

and then wins on 7+

[woven summit]

and Outlaw is good in dungeons

right

[gleaming eagle]

sin spec for lyfe bois

[woven summit]

I feel the same way

Guess I can manage single target to keep up with others

but if it's that dog shit in dungeons then got to go outlaw

[gleaming eagle]

sub wear dual daggers too so its not hard to respec

[woven summit]

yeah true

but I hate the spec

feels like juggling

one mistake and all falls

Maybe I need to try first though lol, I just know I hated in BFA

Remember that assassination was shit at the beginning of BFA too?

[gleaming eagle]

so does legion

[woven summit]

But then they buffed it

[gleaming eagle]

and then sin becomes popular in legion

[woven summit]

So not all hope lost

[gleaming eagle]

tier s even

for pvp that is

[woven summit]

yeah

[gleaming eagle]

the way how it should be is that

sin for burst dmg

outlaw for aoe

and sub for sustain dps

[sick smelt]

How is sin stacking up against other specs rn? does anyone have a link for preraid sims

[balmy condor]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

has a lot of those numbers

[sick smelt]

perfect thx

[maiden wolf]

all the numbers seemed to have bumped up from last time, did the gear bump up?

[balmy condor]

bumped up where

[maiden wolf]

in the spreadsheet

[balmy condor]

not to my knowledge

[maiden wolf]

last time top sin was like 2.8k and sub was 3.4k, but its up by quite a bit

[fallen crypt]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

yeah idk @maiden wolf I took at a look at it, and all the gear is still the pre-raid default they put into simc months ago, 184 ilvl m0 gear

[maiden wolf]

APL got gud?

lol

[balmy condor]

APL has always been pretty good

we got a couple optimizations

but nothing insane except a bit of kyrian stuff

[maiden wolf]

yea it looks like 20-25%, no clue where that's coming from...

[pseudo hamlet]

Why is Dashing Scoundler as the legendary item instead of Zoldyck in the BIS list? Also why the raidbot sims and the list of items have different daggers?

[balmy condor]

dashing sims slightly better on pure single target

and that raidbots/list is an interesting find

the stats are the same

must be some import error

the list is correct, the dagger name is just different in the sims

don't mind that

I'll make a note later

[normal olive]

👀

[balmy condor]

hopefully that clarifies, sorry bout that @pseudo hamlet

[pseudo hamlet]

Thanks @balmy condor you're our only hope for that niche which is Assassin spec in the Shadowlands

[balmy condor]

just watching out for my sin buddies

[bold herald]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[clever cipher]

is there trinket sims btw?

!trinkets

oh

[balmy condor]

trinkets aren't fully implemented

[clever cipher]

ok ty

[vale quest]

Sin stills hit?

shit*

[balmy condor]

yes

[hollow barn]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[fringe dust]

Hi team,
I checked the obvious places and the pins but didn't get a straight answer.

Will Coldheart Intertia be open next week so Assassination's can grab the Zoldyck Insignia? If not, or "we don't know", what leggo are we grabbing since we can't get Dashing Scoundrel either? Master Assassin? (assuming single-target).

[balmy condor]

we don't know

master assassin is definitely worse than dashing in single target

[fringe dust]

Yeah i saw that. Well heck. Thanks.

[hollow barn]

Hmm.

[lone junco]

ooof.

thats gross

sub over sin atm

it will be fine tho. Tuning will save you. right?

[balmy condor]

If you’re using my bis list numbers to compare, that number is a little inflated, miki’s list has whetstones and a couple gems

And I chose to not include those

So it’s actually closer to ~16%

[lone junco]

thats just off herodamage.

[balmy condor]

Oh

Rip

I got a similar number

When I compared my list to miki’s

[lone junco]

im too dumb for this chart. what are the gains on the stats? vs the Tendy on line 5

stats are R1,2,3,4. add to tendy right

so a R1 Head/chest Leg with tendy is better than an R4 wrist with Talbadar's

[balmy condor]

Yeah but that assumes a vacuum I would think

Head gives more stat than a wrist, so it’s obviously worth more

But it assumes that both slots are empty for that comparison to be accurate

So dunno

Seems like a weird comparison to make imo

[low girder]

meanwhile i have only 1 sub conduit above blue

game wants me to come back to sin

[balmy condor]

same kinda

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/GSULQ/57cad33426.jpg

still no WPS

[low girder]

my planned execution is green

[marble hemlock]

got mine from calling

\o/

[low girder]

calling just gave me WPS

lol

[fallow otter]

I wish I had the luck you guys have for purples

[balmy condor]

:P

[fallow otter]

I get cucked

[low girder]

i mean in gear i got fucked

i got 5 pieces from 8 dungeons lmao

[fallow otter]

I got 4

My account legit cursed

[proven current]

is there a way to change conduits outside of your covenant, using a tome or something?

[balmy condor]

no

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor Any idea when the Generics (Echo of Eonar, Judgement of the Arbiter, Sephuz's) will be sim'd?

[wide ridge]

wait you guys are dropping 184 conduits?

didn't drop a single one

[verbal stirrup]

Is assa atleast remotely viable

[balmy condor]

sephuz isn't fully implemented, judgement is dog shit, echo is dog shit

we're talking like 4-5% down from dashing in single target

[grizzled jay]

HeroDam didn't have any of em so I was just wondering if they had been sim'd at all

[balmy condor]

ye

they're simmable

just not fully implemented

[fallow otter]

Well depends on what content you are doing but in almost all situations the answer is no

[verbal stirrup]

damn i miss it so much tho

sub is fine but its not my thing exactly

i was wondering more about pvp

[balmy condor]

Its weak in pvp too from what I hear

[fallow otter]

I can global people in a stun on sub

No point not doing that haha

[low girder]

tbf i get globaled in a stun by like 10 specs

lol

[strange python]

are sin buffs likely incoming? got legendary Mark today.... plus the poison trinket (flaywing toxin) --> does mastery increase this trinket's dmg?

[balmy condor]

1. likely sure
2. no it does not

[strange python]

ty

legendary *Memory, the vendetta one, mb

[balmy condor]

the vendetta one is tragic btw

[umbral rapids]

[balmy condor]

like

really bad

[strange python]

at least the tragic one is a sin one in light of the relative nerf

[fallow otter]

Haha true that actually, but sin ain't one

[strange python]

remember legion sin? legendary trinkets with fan of knives cloak and exsang? membuh?

affliction rog

[north pewter]

I feel energy starved coming off that sweet sweet corruption build

I never thought I'd miss it

Now I am a soft lil baby with no haste, shit gear, and a stubborn dedication to the worst rogue spec.

[spice spire]

Mood.

[north pewter]

At least my guild loves me enough to carry me. At least I can still pick locks 😭😭

My guild isn't filled with rogue mains, its me and 1 other. Bless.

[finite oxide]

so mut isn't doing well this expac?

[balmy condor]

assassination is awful right now

yeah

[rustic juniper]

I cleared torghast as sin /flex

3 layers may be as far as we get lol

[balmy condor]

ironically I think torghast as sin is better than outlaw

leeching is kinda huge

[rustic juniper]

yeah self healing is really the key, I crushed it on my feral druid

it was quite a challenge on the rogue

[main forge]

the best combo for torghast that felt helped was 2x 15%+ max hp buff and the 2% stamina for every maw rat kill buff

[strange python]

yup same

on sub for me

[main forge]

self healing wasn't undoable for the long haul

And I didn't consider how strong leech could be with the proper buffs... now that I think about it

[north pewter]

Torghast was ROUGH, but I havent been lucky with big upgrades this week.

Im thinking once im better geared and stat balanced itll be easier

[tough olive]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[fallow otter]

Best stats for sin are sub and outlaw

[rain estuary]

yo i've never played assas before and confused how i can manage energy

[balmy condor]

What do you mean with manage energy

[sinful island]

are you low on energy most of the time?

I don't really understand how legendaries work, can I somehow preapare and get this Zoldyck insignia already? or is it still time gated?

[low girder]

timegated, 810 dust is the most you can have this week

and you need 1250 for the lowest rank legendary

[sinful island]

there's just a vendor?

[balmy condor]

The runecarver

Does it

You feed him the crafted item, choose a memory, and then add missives for the stats you want

[low girder]

you need the dust, and the base of the slot you want it on, and the memory of the leggo you want

[balmy condor]

And he smashes them together

[low girder]

yeah

the higher tier base item you have, the more dust you need to craft it

[jade jewel]

What are go to conduits? I picked up a epic one that garrote increases mut damage on the target if that’s any good.

[fleet whale]

it's ok

[main forge]

from the pinned message -> Conduits:
Single Target: Well-Placed Steel >= Lethal Poisons > Maim, Mangle > Poisoned Katar
Mythic Plus: Reverberation >= Sudden Fractures >= Lethal Poisons = Septic Shock = Lashing Scars