you can just change if you don't like it
#assassination
balmy condor
mossy sable
Yeah I know XD
balmy condor
I was like 80/20 kyrian/night fae for basically the whole beta
mossy sable
I mean hell I am debating if I even like rogue rn or If I wanna swap calsses
fleet whale
so yesterday i got a heroic anima charged battery trinket...
balmy condor
fleet whale
it's pretty nice
1 min 30 cd but i just use it with vend
and as sub, it lines up with blades
does that trinket rank high? lol
balmy condor
its pretty gud
balmy condor
probably not great for sub
haste isn't that great
but its overall a solid trinket
fleet whale
yeah like i said it's nice for sin, i just macro it for vend
balmy condor
ye
fleet whale
idk if that is actually ideal for dps, but it feels right lol
fleet whale
it's really nice as venth too, since i use that trinket, and after that i have flag on use
gleaming eagle
i like necrolord skill cause it has 3 charges and always have use
balmy condor
yeah battery looks fine for sub too
gleaming eagle
only use 15 energy too
fleet whale
and after flag runs out, soul bind haste buff
so i end up with a haste buff that lasts for a long time lol
scenic thunder
I've choosed Venthyr, looks really powerful in raids / single target bosses, and with high haste it will become better and better
But i'm thinking about using blindside, we cant maintain elaborate planning with low haste, so blindside are simming better
balmy condor
blindside and ma on 1 target, ep and subt on 2+
scenic thunder
When blindside procs, it will substitute my mutilate?Or i need to put in another keybinding
balmy condor
another keybind, or gnome sequencer
gleaming eagle
isnt there a macro that allow me to cast ambush whenever its up?
balmy condor
with gnome sequencer, you can set that up
but it doesn't quite do that
it just cycles between mutilate and ambush constantly
so you just keep hitting the button
and it casts ambush just by virtue of cycling between mut and ambush constantly
gleaming eagle
i see
balmy condor
conditional macros that cast if something up
is dangerous to one button macros
so that's not allowed
fleet whale
imo the best place to bind ambush is on of your extra action button bars
that way it can be used both in and out of stealth
balmy condor
yeah I have that on a jank keybind
somber phoenix
For you assassins, why choose this spec over the other ones?
vestal wren
balmy condor
unless you really really enjoy sin more than the other 2 specs, there is indeed no reason
somber musk
what talents are people running right now? are there any resources other than icy veins i can check out?
civic palm
Talented in what? har har har.
civic palm
lol
static tapir
how does assa feel in inis right now
balmy condor
in what?
static tapir
instances
woven summit
frigid kestrel
Aura buff
balmy condor
rupture buffs in addition to an aura buff would be good
there's a lot of things that you could do but then you have to change a lot of connected pieces
frigid kestrel
Also SS talent would be neat af, or conduit or something. But that will never ever ever happen
balmy condor
like you can't buff subt, cause then that row gets really screwed up
you could buff MP a little, but it would always get outclassed by EP
frigid kestrel
I remember when MP > EP
balmy condor
there were also people that suggested CT works with venomous wounds
but that opens up CT single target again
which isn't great
granite escarp
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
fleet whale
CT single target would feel ass in SL
SND, garrote, rupture, and CT, that's just over kill for maintenance imo
pale spire
marble hemlock
love how the "ambush also applies a 1cp rupture" anima power is still giga buggy
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
arctic haven
ty
split grail
Question: With MA do I vanish+ambush or vanish+5cp rupture?
balmy condor
you env mut env
split grail
ah, ty
trail yacht
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
deft vault
Does bone spike work with our mastery and venomous wounds?
balmy condor
no and no
deft vault
thats shit
fleet whale
that would make Bone spike disproportionately more powerful for sin when compared to sub and outlaw
and make it the most powerful sin covenant by far
restive spire
SS back, something to make envenom stronger, and a sin unique buff to rupture are on my christmas wishlist but blizzard prolly wont even give 1 of them
balmy condor
buff to rupture is the most likely
restive spire
yeah i dont think we'll ever get ss back but oh well
exsang venom rush and alacrity need to be tweeked better too imo
its one of the best and most unique talent rows we have and its a must pick alacrity
rigid timber
guys, is sin rogue the contender for the best rogue spec for raid?
rigid timber
god damn
maiden wolf
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
strange python
Hey! do any one know what the addon for when u stealth u become surronded with smoke and an icon show that you are in stealth or shroud
balmy condor
uh
strange python
i accedently deletet it, loved it and now i cant find it
balmy condor
sounds like a weakaura more than anything
strange python
broo ive been searching
strange python
thats where i found it in the first place. just the other day
fleet whale
i'm not a cool kid who uses Weak auras
strange python
nope nopt that one
fleet whale
i'm default action bars master race
strange python
found that too tho gonna look in to that one
Honestly im jellus of people who play with the origanal UI
wanna do it but meeeh
balmy condor
I'm very not jealous of people with default ui
deft vault
Is it worth it to delay echoin reprimend for the 1 min buff?
balmy condor
what 1 min buff?
deft vault
Mastery bufff from pelagos
spiral bough
!bis
strange python
What specc are you playing and having the most fun with now in SL?
strange python
i'm hopping between speccs now and then. but assa is just ah love
oh yeah is it?
Feelsbadman
i kinda like outlaw now
when you get a hand on it. nice leveling specc if nothing els 😛
strange python
damn
that sucks
i have a hard time getting a hand on th feel or w.e for sub
how are outlaw?
i mainly play m+ btw ( filty casual) ;D
balmy condor
outlaw is the meta m+ spec
balmy stump
you guys all going nightfae?
echo gust
how is sin looking?
balmy condor
scroll up a little
balmy condor
outlaw is better in pvp yeah
grizzled jay
i saw a Sin rogue in a normal today
at least he's enjoying the highest content he can do
atomic temple
you think sin rogue will get a buff?
balmy condor
probably
jagged axle
@balmy condor you still playing sub?
jagged axle
pain
i'll probably play outlaw in m+, maybe even the whole xpac if the buffs aren't that great
ionic hemlock
is outlaw going to be any good you think?
balmy condor
outlaw is very good yeah
ionic hemlock
Not super loving how sub feels and sin is not great at all
atomic temple
i just dont wanna learn sub, its so tedious and confusing
swift sky
i relate to you but just mashing buttons on sub made me do higher dps overall 
dense cedar
Whispyr sub
surreal solar
flayedwing trinket says 670, but the buff says 180? but the debuff says 290.... wat
dark token
blizz tooltips 
weak oak
where can i find the PVP medallion?
surreal solar
pvp vendor in the profession hall
weak oak
i cant find it 😩 3
fleet whale
just got 161 ilvl... over the 150 hump now
btw i think Theater of pain is gonna be a bitch on tyrannical
lich boss and final boss are gonna murder pugs
!bis
damn it don't work in this channel
royal lantern
there are quite some dungeons parts or bosses where i allready thought "oh boi thats gonna be hell with randoms"
either there will be a WA/addon for the riddle part in mists
glacial haven
guys, do we have stat values yet?
royal lantern
or its gonna be untimable lel
the stat values are "sim the new gear you drop"
but rn you should just use the highest ilvl you can find anyway
glacial haven
ya was thinking if 13ilvl gear gap makes any difference if stats are better on lower one
like this for example
royal lantern
we are at a point in the game where 80%of your slots are still blue
stat minmaxin has no use rn lel
low girder
Agi is so hilariously far ahead of even the best secondary I would be surprised if it ever mattered outside of < 5 ilvl upgrades
royal lantern
agility was always the best stat, but people dont seem too understand how stats work^^
low girder
Also statweights are bad, always just use top gear
balmy condor
rings you still go for high level a lot of the time because you're getting more raw stats from it
you can try and target haste
sterile reef
balmy condor
if you mean covenant, I think the consensus is night fae for the cheap shot, or kyrian for the big finisher
steep ether
can someone tell me which talents i should use for mythic dungeons with assa. would be awesome thanks alot
balmy condor
in the pins, ep/subt/deeper/alac/ct
steep ether
thanks bro ❤️
balmy condor
np
placid dawn
is it me or are rogue torgast powers complete trash?
balmy condor
the covenant ones are pretty strong, the shadowstep one is pretty good as well
placid dawn
im playing outlul so i havent seen the shadowstep one
and the kyrian one sucks
oh well
drifting cloud
kyrian ones def dont suck, theyre op
2 trait combo that doubles your dmg if not more
balmy condor
I'm sure its not an uncommon name
grim mason
shit I am in rogue disc lol
I thought I was in hunter lodge -_-
I am tired and its almost 4 don't mind me
strange python
so i went vent
that shit is stupid crazy with the outlaw build rolf
but hard AF for sin
might try changing up my talents
oh it uses the same stat priority as sin
i have loot priority set to sin still just running m+
placid dawn
what do you mean? sin has haste prio but outlul and sub have crit vers or something
need 2 sets of gear 😦
strange python
Haste;
Versatility;
Critical Strike;
Mastery
is the build I used from icyveins that was p sweet
only thing you need is a sword for your main hand
i'm not an expert but i think its what i'm gonna do with my sin for m+
placid dawn
how do you guys survive the last boss from torgast? he hits super hard
i can survive 1 minute, his autoattacks fuck me up
balmy condor
Get more damage
Layer 3 can be pretty hard if you’re undergeared and have a bad run
unique marten
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
placid dawn
i was doing 6k dps or so
balmy condor
Full clear for all the orbs and currency for the vendor floors and then blast
placid dawn
but he just starts destroying me with autos
died at like 3% twice
unlucy, i guess ill spend 2 hours in the next run to be sure
plain thistle
yup, I did 16k dps with outlaw on that boss
with good powers
.... that was 1hour ago 
formal wolf
hey guys, I know some of you switched to sub, would you mind posting a sample opener/rotation. I tried in the sub channel, but they pointed me to the guides, but guides are still very confusing for me
frigid kestrel
hey guys, I know some of you switched to sub, would you mind posting a sample op...
Answered in sub channel
placid ether
Hey guys, currently leveling my rogue through maldraxxus but not sure how to use serrated bone spike. Any thoughts?
inner schooner
!bis
pliant wing
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
its hard to nail the full flagellation, also make sure you are hitting your between the eyes before your dispatch
you gotta have a 7 CP ready to go, then hit that, then adrenaline rush your ass off trying to get like 30CP worth of combo points off
then you have to hit flag again in time
but it shreds bosses
also adrenaline rush is really cool but a little short
still going with it tho, just really hard with sin, but i actually think i can switch my sin build up a bit to fit the vent profile better
sour citrus
kyrian
shut garnet
bruh its really not hard to get 30 stacks w outlaw in AR
you legit proc the 15% haste like halfway thru
woeful wigeon
weapen enchant for ssin rogue
strange python
ya i just picked up the class today having never played it before, right now its tough jumping over from sin. with a bit of muscle memory its manageable, but still fast when you account for all the ss, opportunity and
bte management
also kind of tough to time with adrenaline rush, without actually holding onto it the entire time
- all the aoe spam and managing your elusiveness, hard to actually stand there and pop off all those cps really quick
dry chasm
hello 🙂 can i ask which legendaries are the best and where can i find them?
livid bronze
hello 🙂 can i ask which legendaries are the best and where can i find them?
pins and in your journal under powers, if you hover over them it tells you
woeful wigeon
well or pins ssays noting aboutt enhants
woeful wigeon
sin has been left behinnf in compai to ssub / outtlaw
livid bronze
where is the pins? i suck a bit at english
up top in discord next to the member list option 🙂
woeful wigeon
so wish weapen enchant i need to use on daggers of a sin rogue
dry chasm
im night fae not kyrian
thorn plover
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
dry chasm
where can i found Zoldyck and doomblade?
woeful wigeon
nex week torgast lvl3++++
quaint dragon
anybody know pvp discord for sin rogue
sage sierra
Im doing very low dps in pvp compared to sub. I know sub is better atm, but the difference is so huge I dont think thats the issue. maybe its a gear issue? idk
old snow
does assa run wound or deadly in pvp?
safe nacelle
How’s Vinthyr for assassination? My heart belongs in this place and I don’t want to leave it. 😦
placid dawn
Good enough, go with what you have fun using
gritty solstice
How far are we from sub rogues when it comes to m+
sage sierra
can someone explain how does haste work with dots?
royal lantern
they tick slightly faster
sick scarab
jesus lol i had to try sub...
WTF blizzard thinking .. sub vs assa .. playing assa seems like fight unarmed
onyx wind
yeah assa feels extremely underwhelming
sick scarab
i mean it is disgusting.. no energy at all wtf blizzaaaaard
rough lion
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
heady tusk
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
fleet whale
i'm nervous i'm still gonna have HoA on when Nathria comes out 😦
balmy condor
I replaced already 
fleet whale
i got that 160ish ilvl one from a quest
but im pretty sure my 147 HoA is still better
dense cedar
u can check :)
bleak glacier
does dungeon difficulty matter for memory drops?
balmy condor
Don’t think so
balmy condor
Leg and feet
strange python
thx
lavish quarry
is sin a viable choice over sub if I was a sin rogue since wotlk? 😄
dense cedar
what counts as viable to you?
lavish quarry
a spec that is going to be accepted in pug groups, not expecting to outperform sub but at least close enough
a spec that people wouldnt flame me for playing 😄
strange python
play outlaw
lavish quarry
nah, I would prefer sub over outlaw if sin is that bad
fleet whale
for M+ you would still run subter, which is why Zoldyck is the preferred option for Sin in M+
in ST, i think Nightstalker would be better
for big shiv vanish vendetta envenoms
formal wolf
should I always equip higher iLevel items even if they have worse stats than my curent ones (like less Haste)?
gaunt aspen
Usually the first week is take what you can get then the following weeks are stat prioritization, considering you’ve run all 8 mythics this week. If you’ve gotten multiple pieces then yeah replace with the better stats
formal wolf
Thank you guys
balmy condor
6
deft patio
i see
misty holly
Question about serrated bone spike: does it count as a bleed that scales with assassination mastery? Does it count for the Doomblade legendary? Juggling gear as best I could I didn't see any tooltip change in damage by adding/reducing a few mastery points, but it might not have been enough to make a difference with what I have to swap.
balmy condor
no, no
misty holly
well that's unfortunate 😦 Does Sepsis scale with mastery?
fleet whale
if SBS worked in all of those things it would far and away be Sin's best covenant
while also having benefits that neither sub nor outlaw would have
balmy condor
wiht master assassin leggo.. we run subterfige or nightstalker ?
sorry for the late reply, with MA and a higher ilvl, you would switch to EP. NS with MA is basically always the play, you would still rupture out of the vanish, but you would follow it up with mut env mut for the other 3 seconds of the legendary
split grail
More questions, yay! So for Necro rogues on a long single st fights, should we just use bone spike at the start and then forget about it or do we use it as a cheap combo builder?
maiden halo
Also got a question! Are the soulbinds in pins up to date?
grizzled jay
@balmy condor There's a 171 Main, Mangle up atm
balmy condor
and you're telling me that why?
balmy condor
More questions, yay! So for Necro rogues on a long single st fights, should we j...
you use it as a builder
balmy condor
Also got a question! Are the soulbinds in pins up to date?
yes
maiden halo
ty ty 😄
grizzled jay
why wouldn't i tell my rogue friends
clever niche
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/KzdpdOhBL (Devlin's Group)
undone spade
how are we doing dps wise rn?
bold saffron
apparently bad..... sin is my favorite spec to play but it feels slow
Like energy starved
so im palying outlaw
balmy condor
sin is really undertuned
bold saffron
not a huge fan of sub
balmy condor
yeah outlaw is really good too
undone spade
damn :/
worthy slate
Hey can someone explain to me exactly what echoing reprimand does? The kyrian class ability? Both in game description and anything I’ve found on various sites make my smooth brain hurt
balmy condor
you cast it, does a bunch of damage
it then picks a combo point "slot", either 2,3,4
and when you finish on that slot, with a 2,3, or 4 cp finisher, it acts like it were a 7cp finisher instead
worthy slate
Ah
Okay that makes sense. How do you know when you hit that combo point slot? Is it just a toss up and hope you get lucky?
balmy condor
its a buff
wild hemlock
do you guys think there is hope for this spec
balmy condor
depends
wild hemlock
i really dont wanna switch, but im starving for energy 😦
balmy condor
its possible for heroic week
but I doubt it'll be top tier
it'll be "usable"
the slowness won't change though
that's what its supposed to be
bold saffron
The AOE feels really bad
fleet whale
energy really isn't the problem for sin right now
if it feeling clunky, it likely isn't because of energy but rather lack of crit
what is a problem is the damage being so lowly tuned
gilded laurel
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
restive spire
aoe has always been bad
be pretty poggies if crimson temptest procced venemous wounds
balmy condor
eb was not bad
eb was very good
crimson tempest proccing venomous also has a lot of unintended side effects
like CT single target
misty holly
aoe was pretty decent in BFA, what changed?
gritty yoke
please someone buff assa i cant stand playing sub or outlaw
bitter nova
It looks like assass will just scale ahead of sub
fleet whale
assassin in current tuning will not scale ahead of sub
balmy condor
aoe was pretty decent in BFA, what changed?
we lost all the things that made the aoe decent
balmy condor
It looks like assass will just scale ahead of sub
Talking about sin magically scaling harder than other specs is omegabait, please don't keep that talking point going. It's been years, let it die
balmy condor
yeah
bitter nova
@balmy condor go look at the sims then
sub is much better with preraid gear, then magically sin is equal in raid
dry atlas
Where did you get those sims from
balmy condor
but that looks like some bullshit and a half my dude
if you can get me a gear set
that gets EVEN CLOSE
to 8k+
I would be floored
rustic juniper
You know its garbage when it shows WW monk as a good scaling spec. Yikes!
bitter nova
its from simc but w/e
restive spire
this is the preraid sim, raid gear isnt changing it that much
dry atlas
Link
balmy condor
I also want a link
maybe the english found some weird trick to magically double everyone's dps
restive spire
are we jsut gonna glance over survival being at #4 in that pic he sent
thats how u know its wrong
winter laurel
does the sepsis still work with the crit legendary ? does it still activate the crit benefit
balmy condor
no
it doesn't give any stealth combat benefits
only allows the use of a stealth ability
bitter nova
its just what I got sent from over there but w/e have it your way. have you done a raid BIS sim?
balmy condor
yes
I have
and so has miki and many others
you can actually go into the sub channel and type !bis
and see for yourself
I haven't finished the spreadsheet yet
but you can look at that
we're nowhere even close to those numbers
strange python
this is the preraid sim, raid gear isnt changing it that much
is there one with raid gear?
fleet whale
i'm actually a little disappointed with that pre raid sim that Tom linked tbh
sin actually isn't in the bottom, which blizz will take as it not needing buffs
fleet whale
Sin is actually in the worst spot it can be if you are hoping for a buff with that chart
below middle of the pack, but not complete bottom tier
also if i decide to switch over to night fae
will i not be able to get to renown 3 this reset?
fleet whale
so i just need to get the 1000 anima again?
balmy condor
yeah and do all the normal weekly stuff
fleet whale
i love the venth aesthetics but ngl flag is just a total pain to use lol
balmy condor
I swapped on wednesday and was back to renown 3 on friday morning
fleet whale
sepsis just seems so easy to use...
balmy condor
yeah its pretty brainded
fleet whale
i mean that's kind of why i may prefer it lol
modern schooner
I swapped on wednesday and was back to renown 3 on friday morning
sin or sub?
balmy condor
sin or sub what
modern schooner
sin or sub what
you said you swapped on wednesday
balmy condor
yes
modern schooner
from sin or from sub
modern schooner
ohhh nvm I thought you were talking about specs
balmy condor
the conversation was about renowns
modern schooner
yeah sorry
balmy condor
I play sub in m+ atm, and I'll try to play sin in raids, but will probably play sub in raids as well unless sin gets buffed
modern schooner
so your first leggo will be sub?
balmy condor
yeah I'm saving for finality
modern schooner
cool. I'm gonna do the same for now. I expect some tuning soon hopefully
balmy condor
yeah it's pretty easy to slam a couple legendaries
so you won't be gimped for too long
modern schooner
I still haven't progressed much in the campaign but it should be pretty easy
is it worth it to go leatherworker for them?
jagged axle
saving for?
balmy condor
depends on your server
jagged axle
you can buy legendary effects?
balmy condor
you need soul ash to craft them, yeah
balmy condor
uh.....
jagged axle
are u getting ur pref stats
balmy condor
I have 1 mythic to go
fervent lily
Hey guys, oddball question but does bonespike work with exanguinate?
balmy condor
no
fervent lily
alright cool
mint kindle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
fleet whale
so yeah i think sepsis may scale with Sin's mastery
when i swap between sub and sin, no gear changes
sepsis' damage on the tooltip is higher for sin
alpine lodge
what is bis spec for raiding? is it assassin?
alpine lodge
oh
balmy condor
sub and outlaw are both fine
alpine lodge
what spec is people going for thats gonna mythic raid then, sub or outlaw?
or real close
balmy condor
they'll each shine on their own fights
alpine lodge
whats like pros and cons then if u know, never played rogue. but will make an alt for mythic raiding
or is rogue like not that good in raiding atm
balmy condor
melee in general isn't really desirable
sub is better for single target, outlaw does better in cleave
sub also has a lot of funnel/priority burst
alpine lodge
alright big thank you for the help 🙂
balmy condor
no problem
fleet whale
yeah i've given up on assassin...
all i did was literally switch specs, and use a sub conduit that isn't even that good, no gear swaps
sudden canyon
spec is feeling very energy starved.
balmy condor
sepsis' damage on the tooltip is higher for sin
Affecting spells : Master of Subtlety (31665 effects: #1, #2), Vendetta (79140 effect#1), Subtlety Rogue (137035 effects: #1, #2), Outlaw Rogue (137036 effects: #1, #2), Assassination Rogue (137037 effects: #1, #2), Shadow Dance (185313 effects: #4, #5), Broadside (193356 effects: #4, #5), Ruthless Precision (193357 effect#1), Elaborate Planning (193641 effects: #1, #2), Acrobatic Strikes (196924 effect#1), Symbols of Death (212283 effects: #1, #2), Master Assassin (256735 effect#1), Shiv (319504 effect#1), Deathly Shadows (341202 effects: #1, #2)
fleet whale
so i guess it's just a higher baseline for sin?
balmy condor
just auras I would assume yeah
fleet whale
and about assassin being energy starved... i don't think it really is compared to how the spec has been in the past esp at an expansions start
what i think people are feeling are
low damage, and low crit
crit smoothens out assassin's rotation more so than haste, even if haste gives more energy regen
sudden canyon
yea low crit is ass. getting 1 cp FoK in packs aint it
fleet whale
also too many 2 cp muts suck
steep badger
what the hells with all the on use trinks
fleet whale
it's the theme of sl trinkets
balmy condor
I don't hate it
fleet whale
idk i can see why people would dislike esp ones with weird cds
balmy condor
I always kinda hated trinkets you just macro'd or passive things
trinkets have always been the most interesting slot of gear
just having it be a stat stick or something kinda 
fleet whale
i mean assurance of consequence was all passive in SoO
but i thought that was really fun
fleet whale
convergence of fates was neat too
balmy condor
yeah
fleet whale
archimonde class trinkets
balmy condor
if it actually changes the gameplay meaningfully its fine
like
everyone remembers daught of souls
and convergence
fleet whale
i think everyone is just bored of 2 years of Harlan's
normal olive
Henlo whopster
balmy condor
but no one's out here like "YO DO YOU REMEMBER FROND"
fleet whale
low damage
balmy condor
cause its a shit spec
normal olive
balmy condor
fleet whale
frond was ok but too much rng
static coral
Whispyr feel like sin will be decent for progression due to dots and so so damage?
For mythic that is
balmy condor
not enough damage to be worth
fleet whale
torghast ironically is one of the better areas for sin atm lol
normal olive
everything was fine until i got to the boss that casts 1 million things and leaves the pools behind
fallow otter
oak wren
!STATS
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
strange python
What do u thing, we will only get an aura buff?
steep badger
haste n verse in a dead heat w current sl gear, sim sim sim
balmy condor
stats change with gear ye
steep badger
whisp you holdin the sin flag atm or subbn w the rest of us wishful sad folks
balmy condor
I'm playing sub in keys/dungeons
steep badger
was gona say what keys
steep badger
ofc, i just wana play my damn spec again. Subs neat but just doesn't feel as rewarding. double on use trinks is murdering my rotation concentration
balmy condor
I'm using a 171 toxin and a 184 quantum atm
steep badger
self inflicted of course since i macro one w symbols and one w shadow tech
176 shadow n quantum
balmy condor
176? 
steep badger
i just gota stop being lazy and takem off macro
yeah im that guy, bought 2 dags but only cost me 200k total, jackass was undercutting the ah hard and timing was right
got lucky skinning farming w a boe ring
locked out of mythics atm so theorycrafting a bit
only hitting around 2700/2800 though, dmg %'s look about right so not sure what im doing to fk it up
could be shitty dmg profiles galore
actually im a moron, forgot sims use slands pots/flasks/food , that could make up for some of it
still using my bfa remnants
obsidian willow
Hey guys, how is assassination DPS-wise now?
steep badger
garbo
steep badger
welcome to the feelsbadman chan
obsidian willow
I mean, I was asn in 8.3
Then switched to outlaw on prepatch and stayed with it until now but I miss asn
steep badger
casual or competetive?
would rec staying outlaw for a bit if you're pushing m's til bliz tweaks sin
obsidian willow
Casually competitive lol
steep badger
yeahh stay pirate for a bit
obsidian willow
I wanna do good but it’s ok if Im not top dps cuz I have a guild of friends so it’s not pressure
steep badger
we're due for some love at some point
west glacier
Yo, is it normal for a sin rogue right now to feel so slow?
balmy condor
yes
west glacier
Theres literally nothing I can do to remedy that? I'm fine with sin rogue not being the best as long as it feels fun to play and its not :/
balmy condor
wait for more gear
sims actually have deeper strat ahead slightly in full mythic gear
west glacier
yeah, I'm hoping those legendries make it feel better + stat increases
balmy condor
that would be the omega slow
fleet whale
that would feel ass to play ngl even in full mythic gear
balmy condor
but I saw DS show up like 0.3% higher on some sims
fleet whale
3x last blade
balmy condor
and im like 
fleet whale
2x 70 % crit buff proc
the thing that does arcane damage when you crit
something that makes me ignore all armor when it procs
vigor talent
it was great
deft vault
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
jagged axle
if only i was playing assass
desert sapphire
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
balmy condor
well in legion you also had the relics that reduced vendetta's cooldown
without those, you can't get vendetta's cooldown low enough to line up 2:1 with vanish
so its kinda trash
sudden canyon
convergence 😍
full pecan
!bis
errant delta
ring or wirst better for master ass lego?
balmy condor
ring or wirst better for master ass lego?
they're within margin of error, pick whatever you feel like
wind nymph
Hello fellas, from the pinned message it says that kyrian is better than Night Fae, is it really true?
Looks like Night Fae is actually the go to
balmy condor
kyrian is very slightly better right now, night fae will be better with more renown
the recommendation as always is to pick whatever covenant you like best, and just play that
the difference in damage is honestly whatever
wind nymph
thanks
balmy condor
no problem
tepid ermine
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/KzdpdOhBL (Devlin's Group)
thin radish
If I'm using Sepsis, is it best to use Ambush or Garrote to make use of the stealth ability during my rotation?
balmy condor
ambush for sure
thin radish
Oh it doesn't apply an empowered garrote?
balmy condor
no
it does not give any stealth combat effects
it only allows the usage of a stealth ability
so no subterfuge, no ma (from the talent, or the legendary), no nightstalker, none of it
thin radish
Hm okay thanks Whispyr
balmy condor
np
warm drift
why does flag not give cp like the other 2. kinda weird
i hope they tune this abilty in some way.
balmy condor
flag is fine
warm drift
just feels horrible to use then
warm drift
the haste part is cool yeah
vital kettle
Am i the only one really struggling with Assa atm ?
balmy condor
sin is really undertuned
and its a lot slower than people are used to, especially in dungeons
I think its fairly normal
alpine garden
Yeah even just levelling I'm definitely feeling a "delay" to when I would normally hit buttons
vital kettle
(playing Night Fae btw)
maybe Kyrian would have been better for the CP generations and the 7 CP effects but i couldnt bare the Mog on my DI dwarf x)
balmy condor
nah, covenants don't have that much impact
vital kettle
ye, only low % difference from what i heard
main forge
Night Fae can mess up your rotation if the class ability goes the full duration and gives you a free stealth ability.... currently it just throws up your stealth bar but don't announce it in any fancy way
With conduits and legendaries, they at least have plenty of tuning knobs that allow adjustment.... but currently having melee hits and poison doing the majority of the damage is what feels bad.
alpine garden
How to make sure something is balanced? Make them all really weak 🎉
balmy condor
They add up to a sizable difference
main forge
Honestly you don't get enough time to test them while leveling. You should get the abilities as soon as you enter each zone...
pseudo hamlet
Is there some kind of guide for the Torghast for rogues?
strange python
well this sucks, thought my sin would get better as i geared but my outlaw mythic spec is even outdoing my sin on single target
everyone was buffed and we lost all the skills that made our class function when we lost our HoA. we need shrouded suffocation back for starters and venom needs a buff and energy generation is broken as well
daring pollen
Hi, I'm coming back to sin after a hiatus. I'm not sure if this is lag or by design, but when I leave stealth, for about 1-2 sec afterwards, my action bar continues showing stealth actions. Is this a new ability or something? I may need to start putting rupture on stealth bar
It could also be lag since i'm on high pop server and experiencing about 1-2 secs of chat lag
plain thistle
maybe subterfuge? level 25 talent
it allows to use stealth abilities 3s after exiting it
@daring pollen
daring pollen
yes I bet that's it.. thanks. Did that used to be sub-only and they moved it to all specs?
plain thistle
assa/sub, outlaw doesnt have it
daring pollen
I see, I did play outlaw for the last part of bfa, so that's probably it. thanks! I will change my binds accordingly
Does that allow garrote to silence 2 targets if I can get them both during the subterfuge timer?
candid jasper
Is assa really that bad compared to sub/outlaw atm? 😦
dense cedar
yes
royal flax
so i shouldnt bother with assa atm ?
real bay
wait for buffs imo
distant cypress
yea
deft patio
guys what is your opener in sl?
the suggested opener seems off to me:
When using Master Assassin Icon Master Assassin:
Start from Stealth Icon Stealth.
Cast Ambush Icon Ambush.
Apply Slice and Dice Icon Slice and Dice.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Apply Garrote Icon Garrote.
Use Rupture Icon Rupture.
Activate Vendetta Icon Vendetta.
Use your Covenant ability.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate until 4+ CP.
Cast Shiv Icon Shiv
Activate Vanish Icon Vanish.
Cast Envenom Icon Envenom.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate until 4+CP.
Cast Envenom Icon Envenom.
Continue with normal priority.
i would do as opener : Cast Ambush-Garrote-vendetta-Sepsis-Shiv-Rupture-Mutilate x2-Vanish-Envenom
am i thinking wrong or what do you guys think?
marble hemlock
there was no conclusive information on the "ideal" opener at the time, so thats the opener i suggested for comfortability
dunno if any has surfaced by now
getting rupture up that late doesnt seem optimal to me though
you also dont have snd up at all during vendetta that way
deft patio
what is snd
deft patio
yeah
marble hemlock
you definitely want rupture and snd up as early as possible
deft patio
the rupture is early tho
marble hemlock
5th gcd isnt early
deft patio
its rupture on 4 cp
marble hemlock
well sure, but you still dont have snd up
deft patio
how would you do opener?
marble hemlock
youre also only using 1 direct-damaging ability inside your master assassin window
well, the opener you posted is the one i recommended 🙂
deft patio
master assasin applys to dots aswell tho
marble hemlock
no, it doesnt snapshot them
it does increase the crit-chance of dots while it is active, yes. but any dot casted while MA is active will not retain that crit-chance for its entire duration
deft patio
are you sure?
marble hemlock
... yes
snapshotting isnt a thing anymore, with a few notable exceptions. subterfuge/nightstalker specifically state that they increase the dmg of abilities cast, and those dmg increases apply to the entire duration of the dot, and exsanguinate snapshots the haste-value you have when you cast it
besides that, snapshotting is not a thing
the opener i recommended achieves all the goals i set forth
-use 2 direct damaging abilities within MA
-get garrote, snd and rupture up as quickly as possible, and with durations long enough to not have to refresh them during vendetta+shiv
-use vendetta/shiv/covenant as early as possible, but after securing maintenance on the 3 main abilities
what exactly is it that worries you about the opener you linked?
deft patio
the opener i linked is based of kyrian, iam nightfae
and i feel like
i gotta do septis and shiv after
for the max dps
marble hemlock
where did you get that opener from?
marble hemlock
its not based on kyrian
deft patio
its not good with nightfae tho
marble hemlock
it has a 8second overlap of shiv and the sepsis dot
the final hit of sepsis does not work with shiv
deft patio
yes it does
dry atlas
The last tick of sepsis is not nature damage
deft patio
the last hit of sepsis is nature dmg ive checked
dry atlas
Infect the target's blood, dealing (162.89% of Attack power) Nature damage over 10 sec. If the target survives its full duration, they suffer an additional (77.5667% of Attack power) damage and you gain 1 use of any Stealth ability for 5 sec.
deft patio
go to dummy and check for yourself in dps meter
marble hemlock
the last hit of sepsis is a different spell-ID than the dot, and only the dot has been whitelisted to work with shiv
im not nightfae, so i cant test it right now. but thats the way it worked on beta like a day before the SL release, and so far i have no indication that it changed?
@balmy condor dunno if you heard anything about it
in any case, the opener isnt perfect for every covenant, so i had to take some liberties (in case youre not aware, im the author of the assa guide on IV). you can go mut>sepsis>shiv instead of sepsis>mut to 4+>shiv but the difference is marginal and you might overcap CP that way
your suggested opener is definitely not something i would recommend, due to the fact that youre messing up your MA opener and dont have snd up at all
marble hemlock
yes. its still not increased by the 20% shiv nature damage increase, as far as im aware
last i checked it wasnt, so unless it was hotfixed very recently, the only priority is to get as much of an overlap of the dot and shiv as possible, without having to force the final hit into shiv
deft patio
it does, shiv increase all dmg from nature dmg as long as the shiv buff is up
marble hemlock
my friend, thats what the tooltip says, but those arent always accurate. the way it actually works, is that there is a bunch of whitelisted spell-ids that are affected by shiv. the sepsis dot is part of that whitelist. the final hit isnt.
sadly the tooltips of abilities ingame arent always accurate, and blizzard rarely takes the time to fix them
dry atlas
You don't need to test anything it's in the game files
deft patio
show me
marble hemlock
this isnt how theorycrafting generally works. its been established over months of beta-testing and regular checking of game-files over the course of beta, that the sepsis final hit does not benefit from shiv. if you want to claim or base your ideas on something that is counter to the current consensus, it is on you to provide evidence of that.
deft patio
you blindly trust things without proof,i will go and check for my self. things can change you know
deft patio
i will go and test if it works
dry atlas
Okay go ahead then, you've said 3 times now
deft patio
so how can i trust it if i gotta test it? read man use brain
marble hemlock
what are you even talking about at this point? its been proven multiple times over months of testing and checking spell-data. re-checking old conversations koji said shiv final hit has been added to TB with the latest build, so that mightve changed since the last time we talked about it in here
but since its less back-loaded it might still not be a gain to delay it into shiv
deft patio
yeah i will @dry atlas
marble hemlock
in any case, its nice and all that you want to test it for yourself, but as i mentioned earlier, its on you to prove the consensus wrong, and not just ask for evidence because you dont believe things to be the way theyre being told to you
deft patio
i never trust things blindly sadly, i gotta see for my self how things work or turn out
dry atlas
Stop typing and go test it
marble hemlock
then why do you come here asking for advice?
if you dont believe any of it anyway?
deft patio
i asked for opinions
marble hemlock
well, guides arent based off of opinions. we use data and evidence.
dry atlas
Asking if something is true or not isn't an opinion
marble hemlock
as things are ever-changing we cant always be right or perfectly up-to-date, especially in written guides that take a while to get properly updated. but to just assume that information is wrong is just... idk
balmy condor
Last hit of shiv got whitelisted eventually
Or uh
Sepsis got whitelisted with shiv
marble hemlock
alrighty
well, doesnt change the opener we came up with anyway
since the final hit is already inside shiv in that one
balmy condor
Yup
deft patio
whitelisted what does that mean tho? iam bad at english
dry atlas
They should fix the tooltip to state the second part is nature damage too
marble hemlock
it means that the ability is coded (programming wise) to only work with any abilities that are on a list of abilities its supposed to work with
balmy condor
Seli’s got this I’m going back to sleep lmao
balmy condor
Yes
dry atlas
It says do X nature damage over 10 seconds then do X damage
deft patio
yes nature dmg
it does not say it will change dmg type
it still says nature dmg
read man
deft patio
then how can you think it will change dmg type? its like saying shadowpriest dots will do holy dmg, it makes no sense
alpine garden
Because non-elemental damage is a thing
deft patio
i have spoken, bye guys
dry atlas
There's physical damage affected by armor and magic damage
kindred chasm
dry atlas
somber thistle
interesting.
undone elk
Hi everyone,
I'm new to rogues currently ilvl 167, whenever I'm doing dungeons (heroic) or just out killing mobs i feel like my dps is very low, sometimes the healers even out dps me in dungeons, I dont really see the problem though. I make sure Snd, rupture and garrote are always up and think my rotation is not bad but no matter how hard I try i just cant seem to compete with most people. Is there anyone that can give me some tips/help? Would be much appreciated 🙂
balmy condor
Play sub or outlaw instead
undone elk
Is assassination that bad at the moment then?
marble hemlock
and while we hope for some buffs to assassination, it might not be on the priority list as we already have 2 solid dps specs
balmy condor
Also probably won’t change the dungeon numbers
Requires a little more than an aura buff imo
And that’s a lot of work
marble hemlock
idk, i dont believe dungeon numbers to be that terrible
but assa is even harder to play correctly on aoe now, and outlaw just needs to flip the switch every 15seconds
so why bother
undone elk
Guess im gonna figure out how to play outlaw then, was just starting to get used to assassination but it just feels so weak
marble hemlock
sub is more similar to assa than outlaw is
if thats any solace to you
its a bit more cooldown focused, but retains the ~30second burst windows we used to have with toxic blade, and also has a bigger emphasis on pooling resources properly
dry atlas
Is it really that bad that it's getting outdamaged by healers
marble hemlock
very likely to be outdamaged by most tanks in dungeons at this point
balmy condor
Yeah
dry atlas
Kinda sad cause I loved vendetta in pvp
somber thistle
Im stil playing assasination and holding in there. Really have to focus a lot more on aoe.
strange python
wow i was like fuck this, then i got Enkey's Rogue All in 1 (Shadowlands) weakaura and its really not that bad, just pretend shadow strike is ambush
sick scarab
so.. i lost something.. how the opener is atm ?
sick scarab
so as night faie shiv before sepsis ?
sick scarab
ah
so playing tiw subterfige is lie garrote mut garrote rupture mut mut vendetta
sepsis shiv
i accept advices 🙂
balmy condor
For single target you would gar ambush slice mut rup vendetta sepsis mut shiv enven
Or wait @marble hemlock did we say the sepsis before the rupture?
marble hemlock
errr
nah
as you wrote it
no double garrote anymore (need to adjust that in the guide)
and snd first, rup 2nd finisher
marble hemlock
with subterfuge you want to use ambush over mutilate
marble hemlock
i wonder if that changes if you specced blindside
cause of the chance to proc free ambush 
sick scarab
i am running blindisde and subterfuge
marble hemlock
yeah then it should be
garrote
ambush
snd
mutilate
rupture
vendetta
sepsis
mutilate
shiv
envenom
for aoe it depends massively on the situation on what you do
sick scarab
y y clear
marble hemlock
the general goal is to triple garrote on 3 targets, get CT up asap, maintain ruptures as your garrotes drop off, and try to keep high snd+envenom uptime
well, snd if you have a prio target, probably just 1 more rupture on pure aoe
but snd loses a lot of value on aoe compared to single-target, so other finishers take priority
balmy condor
Maintain snd till 6 targets
At 6+ it’s pretty neutral compared to dropping from what I tested
sick scarab
in aoe i did good wiht hidde blades talend and the fok conduit
and last thing
wiht MA ?
it is MUT garr snd ?
balmy condor
Ambush snd mut rup
marble hemlock
dunno if its mut or ambush these days, but its either ambush>snd>mutilate or mutilate > snd > mutliate
would have to run comparisons
and i have whispyr to do that for me
cough
sick scarab
i dropped MA leggendary.. dunno if craft ring asap or wait for zoldyk or dashing scoundrel
sick scarab
ma is all around i mean
balmy condor
Yeah
If you’re looking for a legendary for all your specs
Would definitely be the way to go
balmy condor
If you’re only playing sin, I would suggest zoldyck
spark leaf
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
strange python
are disc priests better dmg than assassination right now?
olive egret
Current asass is breaking my heart. I haven't even tried it this expac yet but I've been following the convos
balmy condor
Current asass is breaking my heart. I haven't even tried it this expac yet but I...
You haven’t lived life unless you went into a dungeon, pulled a pack of 6, fok’d 3 times and still can’t finish
sonic spindle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/KzdpdOhBL (Devlin's Group)
marble hemlock
Was trying to find the right emote but I'll just go with this
thats the correct one
olive egret
Lmao.
blissful swift
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
cold rampart
should i have lethal poisons or reverberation conduit ?
lethal posion 145
reverberation 158
lean fossil
whats the best covenant for sin rogues?