assassination

[balmy condor]

I would play sin even it were like -5

But 15?

Hard times

[dense cedar]

I just think Kingsbane was very fun

[fading wigeon]

!sl

[prisma monolith]

Shadowlands release: 1 days 5 hours 31 minutes 2 seconds

[balmy condor]

[normal pagoda]

I haven’t been following rogues much until recently and decided to main one. Does sepsis poison count with zodlyck in execute?

[balmy condor]

No

[normal pagoda]

Thanks!

[balmy condor]

Np

[normal pagoda]

Also in general how are rogues looking in raids and M+

I’m down to play any spec

[balmy condor]

As long as you play not sin, you’ll be fine

[void pecan]

Whispyr, did anything change with them changing stuff today supposedly or are pins up to date

[balmy condor]

Sin is numerically behind by a ton

[dense cedar]

i think a good way to finx sin would be

give AP back

and make to idk

triple dip with mastery

[balmy condor]

@void pecan what they change

[dense cedar]

ez fix

[void pecan]

I dunno my guild was sayin the tuned stuff

[normal pagoda]

For real? Think it gets buffed or the others get nerfed?

[void pecan]

recently okr something

[balmy condor]

Well it’s up to date with this weeks patch

Yes

[void pecan]

I haven't looked at beta stuff in weeks so

just making sure

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s all up to date then

@normal pagoda hopefully we get a buff

An aura buff of like 12-15% would do the trick

[normal pagoda]

Are the other specs middle of the pack or top?

[balmy condor]

Hard to tell

[dense cedar]

Whispyr ignoring my great buff idea 😔

[balmy condor]

Van, it’s not a great buff idea

[dense cedar]

:(

[balmy condor]

It’s the best buff idea

[dense cedar]

:)

I mean

Having a poison that is basically just a damage buff

must make sin do more damage

surely

[balmy condor]

Ofc

Agonizing poison increases all damage done by 15%

[rustic cosmos]

Hello guys, where can i find Sims for each spec in Shadowlands? thank you

[balmy condor]

That’s the 15% we’re missing

Ez viable

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

@rustic cosmos link :)

[rustic cosmos]

yes !, ty man

[dense cedar]

now that i think about it

doesn't making Shiv be our toxic blade basically delete utility from the spec

[balmy condor]

Well

Not really

It’s the same thing that happened to outlaw with BtE/kidney

The utility is there

[dense cedar]

well i mean

it being split makes it more versatile is all

[normal pagoda]

One more quick question, am I reading the sepsis conduit correctly... Does it front load the damage?

[balmy condor]

It’s just a decision wether you want to lose the utility for a little, or hold it and lose some dps

[balmy condor]

Yes

[dense cedar]

it just seems a little dumb to basically have the other two spec be more flexibile when they're already better utility-wise

outside of garrote silence

[normal pagoda]

Interesting I wonder if it makes it a bit better in pvp but I’ll go ask that in pvp

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean sin always kinda gets the short end right

We have vanish dependency

Outlaw got gouge

[dense cedar]

like they could've just made toxic blade also baseline

since its not like sin it full of buttons

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[dense cedar]

but instead chose to limit utility for no reason

[balmy condor]

That was my idea too

And replace the talent with kingsbane

[dense cedar]

its basically like having to hold symbols of death

[balmy condor]

I’m not a fan of kingsbane really personally

But it’s definitely better than alacrity in that slot gameplay wise

You got venom rush for zzz passive, poison button, exsang button

Makes sense to me

[dense cedar]

plus even when bte and kidney shot were the same button

they still had gouge

so there was that tradeoff

I miss old Venom rush

idk if it would even be good now

But at least you could take it

[balmy condor]

It would be pretty strong I would think

Move it back to the last tier in place of pb, CT baseline, hb rework to eb or some other fok thing, and bring some hybrid talent in

Old venom rush would be go to single target, the new hb would be aoe, and then you got a hybrid cleave thing for the in between

[dense cedar]

Remember PB being invisible to non rogues

[balmy condor]

Seems lit to me

[dense cedar]

that was lame af

I'd like most of those changes

probs not CT tho

[normal pagoda]

If we’re talking CT why does it not apply rupture?

[dense cedar]

I wouldn't want to live in a world where it became good on ST for any reason

@normal pagoda That'd be hyper fucked

you'd be gaining wya too much energy

[normal pagoda]

Why Ferals have that lol

😆

[dense cedar]

Feral also doesn't do anything outside of snapshotting dots

they have to have some kinda instant shit going for them

Plus Rip doesn't do as much iirc

[normal pagoda]

That’s true

[dense cedar]

its just a dot i think

doesn't give anyhting

[balmy condor]

We had a discussion a couple days ago about why CT doesn’t proc the energy from vw

And the short form is “it would be fucked”

[normal pagoda]

Yea that’d be a lot of energy

[dense cedar]

like we've seen it before

in a world where sin does good baseline damage

if they never need to pool and have full gcd uptime

their dmaage becomes insane

[balmy condor]

Just gotta do a pivot into poisons

[normal pagoda]

But that’s why sin is more forgiving than sub in raids, you can have downtime for mechanics, no?

[balmy condor]

They’re a lot less problematic for that sort of thing

Sin is more forgiving because you’re not tied to the boss for all your damage

It definitely hurts if you have to run out and do something

But the fact that you have 2 bleeds and poisons makes it hurt less than sub

[normal pagoda]

Gotcha

[fading wigeon]

That Sub channel can be unbearable at times lol

What's that fight even about haha

[balmy condor]

Things :)

Keep it in there

This channel is comfy, don’t want no drama

[dense cedar]

Remember

You wan't to dual wield maces

cos they look the silliest

[vestal wren]

the channel of the populat spec is always like this

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[dense cedar]

Its a good thing fuu didn't have the power they currently do when Sin was super popular in legion

and i was just lying about things to people

[balmy condor]

Wait, did we stop lying about things to people?

I never got that memo

[dense cedar]

I mean

I told people to get rid of using their vendetta artifact relics

and use the poison ones instead

[balmy condor]

Oh so you fucked up

[dense cedar]

of course i personally never did it

But I wasn't gonna stop giving very good advice

[pseudo hamlet]

I have a question - which covenant is the best?
(inb4 "read pins nibba!", "it's repeated question ten times a day!")

I mean the covenant that is best for all kind of content(raiding, M+, PvP) -> the golden mean.

[dense cedar]

do you care about having to swap?

[pseudo hamlet]

Not really.

[dense cedar]

Then Kyrian probs

eventually u may have to swap tho

[balmy condor]

Yeah I would personally suggest kyrian

It’s good enough for sin, sub’s covenants are basically equal, and outlaw looks good with it

Even though they’re all pretty marginal

You’ll be able to play whatever you want, however you want, pretty comfortably as kyrian imo

[dense cedar]

Kyrian's main soulbind does come with a basically mandatory movement minigame

so you can't just sit still as it

also with low crit early on

the class ability should be quite easy to hit

[pseudo hamlet]

I mean, Im not trying to get the CE asap.
But I'd rather have a covenant that is good in raiding/M+/PvP than having one that is just best in one type of content and bad in other.

[dense cedar]

since you will average getting 3CP or 4CP pretty often

[fleet whale]

@balmy condor sorry for late response, but that was my BDA MA opener

[dense cedar]

Kyrian is that

[fleet whale]

no SnD back then

[balmy condor]

Yeah makes sense

[dense cedar]

if swapping doesn't bother u

[pseudo hamlet]

And what if it theoretically does?

Just wondering...

[pulsar zealot]

Then go night fae because that will probably be better later on

[balmy condor]

Yep

Night fae seems to have some strong soulbinds later on

[dense cedar]

tbh

[balmy condor]

So that would be the play if you’re in for the late game

[dense cedar]

If you've played bfa all the way through

Swapping shouldn't bother u

[balmy condor]

Like a real sin rogue

[primal zinc]

DONT UPSET WHISPYR GUYS

[pulsar zealot]

Tbh if you are playing sin at this point, you have to be in it for the late game

[jovial haven]

Niya could still be good for sin with herbs if burrs gets scuffed

[primal zinc]

or i will kill you all (in pvp)

[dense cedar]

Real sin rogues wear a clown mog

[pulsar zealot]

Because they sure aren’t good now

[balmy condor]

don’t remind me

[pseudo hamlet]

So, to sum up...
If I will stick to Assa(till the end!) - Night fae.
If I will be probably swapping - Kyrian.
Thanks for the answers 🙂

[dense cedar]

Are you actually sitting on sin rogue is all content whispyr?

[balmy condor]

No

I push decently high m+ so sin is dead there

But I might fuck around and play sin in raids

I’m not a giga raider so it doesn’t bother me

[dense cedar]

im in the spot where i finally wanna play outlaw but sub is also good

so its weird for me

[balmy condor]

Yeah outlaw ain’t my thing so it’s probably sub m+ and sin raid

And if I get stomped in raid, we go sub there as well

[dense cedar]

Like

Until pre-patch i've despised outlaws current design

but SnD plus being forced to accept bad rolls

Fixes it for me

[balmy condor]

It definitely helps

But Idk, it still feels wrong

[dense cedar]

that's fair

[balmy condor]

I might warm up to it

[dense cedar]

It still has the issue of like

never feeling very uh

Whammy

[teal kettle]

if sin didn't have to cast SnD i'd be playing it

[dense cedar]

you kinda just prod along your good dps

[teal kettle]

but I can't get over how bad SnD feels to me playing sin

[dense cedar]

but never feel like you're killing it

[balmy condor]

Snd feels great to me

[teal kettle]

yuck

[dense cedar]

SnD makes up for sin's low apm

[balmy condor]

I’ve always loved snd

[lament dove]

I don't really like CDs that you have to keep up on yourself, I mean press a button every x sec...

but SnD for assa now is ok

outlaw on the other hand, a gazillion of CDs and dots, ew

tbh sub is not that different to assa, I'm starting to get used to it

[dense cedar]

idk

i don't really view target debuffs and self buffs as different things

its all just matinence

Tho with SnD

it isn't just hit the buttons to not let it drop off

[primal zinc]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[dense cedar]

you do have to commit something to it

and it gives you a lot

[jovial haven]

Best to hit with more cp as nrg cost stays the same on snd

[balmy condor]

Energy cost stays the same for everything

[jovial haven]

Yes

Why 1cp finishers hurt

[balmy condor]

Aight, I guess I don’t get your point then

[dense cedar]

neither

i feel stupid

[balmy condor]

Is 1cp finishers something that you would like?

[jovial haven]

I thought vansolo was suggesting just snd ing when it’s about to drop

[dense cedar]

no like

[jovial haven]

But its better to do it at 4+

[dense cedar]

there are other buffs/debuffs in wow

[jovial haven]

Not 1-2cp when it’s at 1s

[dense cedar]

that you just press again

While SnD is something that costs more than a bit of energy and a gcd

the CP cost makes it more impactful

which i like

[jovial haven]

Yeah, it’s better than lock corruption dot

F ex

[dense cedar]

Absolute corruption says what

[lament dove]

yes, but take rupture for example, you use it to get energy
or garrote with SS or exsa build wasn't just a press button x sec, it needed a little more thinking/planning
while self buffs are just press a button, you don't even need a target and all

[dense cedar]

I mean

[balmy condor]

Click boss, and now everything is press button

[dense cedar]

would you like the benefit of SnD to be when autoing a target u put it on?

[lament dove]

I mean it's ok now, I kinda like it, but too much of it ruins it for me

[dense cedar]

also with Sin's current energy and cp regen

you do need to think about SnD a little bit before hand

not like

brain genius shit

[lament dove]

e.g. outlaw is too much imho

[dense cedar]

but its still as much as like

garrote

[jovial haven]

Sin maintenance is nice. Rupture and snd require cp, and garrote even has a cd which makes it more interesting than something like SW:P esp in MT

If only they did damage

[dense cedar]

its not like outlaw doesn't have to think about these things

especially with recent changes

make rtb only have 100% uptime when you are consistently using finishers

obviously target switch does hurt outlaw less

which i guess makes it lesser to you in that regard

but BtE also is really important

But I get what you're saying

Big debuff gameplay is really fun

And a thing I really like about Assassination

[lament dove]

I know if has to think, that's why it's too much for me:) you could say I don't want to play mainly my rotation, I want to play the encounters

[dense cedar]

I don't know what that means but im sure i can agree with it

anyways

that was probs too much outlaw talk

and im gonna be executed

[primal zinc]

so the best for early covenant is night bae niya

the best as the expansion goes on is vanthyr

cos we get better ilvl so better stats for haste

right?

[dense cedar]

It says Kyrian is best early?

[primal zinc]

ST niya aoe korayn

[vestal wren]

kyrian seems to sim highest

[primal zinc]

fuu

on you doc sheet you have

5.34 niya patchwerk

4.65 kyrian

7.10 corayn aoe

6.14 mekanikos genesis aoe

how come kyrian is best?

[dense cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/779720745450078218/assassination.png

[primal zinc]

ok so it is what im saying

early is something else better

[balmy condor]

Yes

[primal zinc]

late gaqme should be vanthyr cos of the haste scale

and items progress

[vestal wren]

the sims are limited to the aviable options

[balmy condor]

There’s passives at the bottom of the soulbind trees that make some better later on

[vestal wren]

so they will differ from a "full renown" one

gear can easy change it

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[vestal wren]

having higher gear levels can alter the balance between covenants

what can easy shift it esp. if they are so close to each other

[balmy condor]

Or they buff lethal poison back to like 150%

:^)

[vestal wren]

i think they will just slap a aura buff to sin

sooner or later

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too

[primal zinc]

anyways i will go vanthyr all the way even in m+

i like the haste buff

[vestal wren]

venthyr has the best transmog^^

[primal zinc]

works at all raid/m+/pvp

and as for m+ +

[shadow tulip]

So, if we're already at topic

[dense cedar]

Venthyr has the most in-depth activity too

[primal zinc]

we got talents to change instead of the whole covenannt

[shadow tulip]

What covenan ya'll chose and why

[balmy condor]

I’m going kyrian most likely because I like the ability

[dense cedar]

Kyrian because its good for any spec

also it has the 2nd least active ability

which makes it chill if you just want regular gameplay

[primal zinc]

vanthyr cos haste is needed in EVERYTHING

[dense cedar]

Mordigen loves Razor Coral gameplay

[balmy condor]

I think he’s in it for the haste

[shadow tulip]

I love haste too, but i'd throw up if I chose Venthyr

That aesthetic

https://tenor.com/view/thats-gross-ewww-disgusting-gif-14383467

[balmy condor]

You don’t like being bougie af?

[dense cedar]

not liking vampires

smh

Necro aesthetic is probably the weakest

[shadow tulip]

They feel way too forced edglord

[dense cedar]

its too generic wow

Kyrian is the edgelord covenant

[shadow tulip]

Nah

I'd rather go AYAYA then "I'LL DRINK YOUR BLOOD"

[vestal wren]

i mean you have:

• charlies angles
• twilight
• adams family
• i am groot

so pick your poison

[balmy condor]

Deadly poison in pve always @vestal wren

[shadow tulip]

NF is better described by AYAYA imo

Also

If I want to raid Assassination and/or Sub but M+ on Outlul

[dense cedar]

drinking blood isn't edgy if u need to do it tho

[shadow tulip]

I have to craft 2 lego, right?

[dense cedar]

its like having a nice cup of coffee

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[shadow tulip]

Or just settle for a spec agnostic?

[balmy condor]

You can very quickly craft 2-3 lego’s

In the first couple weeks

[shadow tulip]

Good, didn't check since they changed it not long ago

[dense cedar]

if you're worried about choosing between multi-leggo and single big leggo

Multi is more value

for sin

and others mayber

can't remember

[near magnet]

Iam going venthyr assa

[shadow tulip]

I want to play assa, but I'm just a raider in my guild, and my RL wouldn't like barely outperformint tanks

[near magnet]

I think it fits the rogue theme

Also haste is always good

[balmy condor]

Just be garbage, AND the raid leader, like me, then you can play what you want

[dense cedar]

Whispyr is raid leader?

How can that be

You play melee dps

[near magnet]

For the beta testets: how assa's legendaries feel?

[balmy condor]

I’m just a god dude

[shadow tulip]

The slot of legos are fixed, right?

[balmy condor]

Melee problems don’t phase me cause I am the problem

[shadow tulip]

I mean "forced" to a certain slot, due to bis lists?

[dense cedar]

each effect can go in 2 slots

i suppose lac

idk if sin has a bis list tho

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk either

#tc-research

[dense cedar]

also iirc all the leggos good for sin are just ones that have existed for ages

[shadow tulip]

I think someone linked a doc when I was on duty

Wasn't that you, Whispyr?

[balmy condor]

^

[fallow estuary]

Whispyr cutie

u gonna stick with sin because you like the spec?

[balmy condor]

Mayhaps

[shadow tulip]

OOOOH

Uzaki

😄

[fallow estuary]

i thought about going the Ryfie way and ditch RTB

[shadow tulip]

❤️

[fallow estuary]

we'll see

[balmy condor]

@warped temple is a traitor who doesn’t believe in dungeon slice

He’s also playing sub xD

Cause sin is pretty much unplayable at that level

[main bronze]

[fossil slate]

I can't wait for Whispyr to be a sub

[fallow estuary]

Wait he betrayed us?

[shadow tulip]

I'll miss SS and EB traits SOOOO MUCH

[dense cedar]

it'll happen

[fallow estuary]

Unsubbed.

[shadow tulip]

IMA CRY

[dense cedar]

SS not being baseline is a really dumb move tbh

idk why blizz takes the stuff i don't care about and adds it to the spec

and not the fun stuff

[balmy condor]

All my homies hate sin

[jovial haven]

i liked seli's idea of scent pf blood being baseline more than ss

[shadow tulip]

EB > SS if I want one to be baseline

[dense cedar]

Scent of blood is kinda like

boring tho

and doesn't change gameplay

it'd just be more dmg

[jovial haven]

it makes your bleeds do something though, beside give energy

thats all SS does

'you garrote

[balmy condor]

Yeah the idea isn’t gameplay changing it

[jovial haven]

andthey do damage

[dense cedar]

SS give bonus combo points

[balmy condor]

It’s just that you have a way to scale into aoe

[fallow estuary]

@warped temple my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

[balmy condor]

Right now we don’t

[dense cedar]

I suppose

[jovial haven]

i guess i more likesd seli's idea of poisons=st, bleeds = aoe as a class concept

[dense cedar]

i just think i'd prefer to see just damage buffs over adding things that give just damage

[balmy condor]

I think it’s the way to go as well scharn

[grizzled jay]

did you use my list as a jumping off point Whispyr

[fallow estuary]

i believe it's the same as every expansion for raids - pre:Legion : OUTLAW BEST GO OUTLAW - Sin whole xpac in raids. pre:BFA: SUB BEST, GO SUB - Sin whole xpac in raids

[balmy condor]

I imported every dungeon item and went from there

So

Maybe?

[grizzled jay]

alright heck you

i did all that work and you don't even use it

[balmy condor]

It was a list of haste items

[jovial haven]

i mean, i think sub should have its place, but i also dont think sin shoudl get shat on by tuning

[balmy condor]

To be fair, it was easier to look up the items to import into the sim with a list xD

So

[dusk lodge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

Thank you

[jovial haven]

like if sin was simming higher in 2-3T than outlaw and had that execute range down, would be nice

then you have a spec for most situations

though conduit swapping woudl limit that fun

[balmy condor]

Just have a different soulbind

[shadow tulip]

Uhm

Since we summoned a few ppl, I'll ask here too

Does Sub's Shadowstrike hit with both weapons?

Or how am I getting 4-5 cp sometimes?

[balmy condor]

Weapon master

[grizzled jay]

Shadowy Techniques is procing

[balmy condor]

That too

[grizzled jay]

You may also have Shadow Blades on

[shadow tulip]

2cp baseline, crit 3?

And Stech +1?

[balmy condor]

2cp baseline, weapon master 4, techniques 5

[shadow tulip]

Allright, gotcha

[balmy condor]

With blades, 3, 6, 7

[shadow tulip]

Love you guys ❤️

[upper mortar]

Sin's so dead the channel is going sub

[lament dove]

premeditation also gives 2

for first

[shadow tulip]

Just whenever I tried asking in sub channel, it either got ignored or chat scrolled so fast, that it wasn't noticed

[balmy condor]

Happens

[grizzled jay]

That's why you don't play Sub, the 2nd most cursed spec in WoW

[lament dove]

and maybe your character is just so used to mutilate it attacks with both weapons regardless of spec

[shadow tulip]

But I like for questing and wpvp

[dense cedar]

wait

what's the most cursed

[balmy condor]

Havoc

[dense cedar]

ew

i see ur point

[shadow tulip]

I still don't know

Which is that?

Tank or the dps?

[balmy condor]

Havoc is the dps

[shadow tulip]

That's cursed?

How?

[balmy condor]

Havoc discord is typically seen as the most toxic

[shadow tulip]

Well, I mean, they are DHs...

[balmy condor]

And they get a bad rap for being fotm and a bunch of other stuff

[shadow tulip]

Wannabe Illidans

[primal zinc]

fuck

i cant find the transmog of the venthyr

can some 1 link them to me plz?

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/venthyr-covenant-revendreth-transmog-armor-sets-cloaks

[primal zinc]

ty

[lapis spindle]

https://strawpoll.com/167gewaqd/r

[balmy condor]

Should take out the /r if you want people to vote

Takes them directly to the results

[dense cedar]

Whispy

time to vote

[balmy condor]

I already did before sending that last message

You underestimate the fastest person in this channel, at least according to my gf

[dense cedar]

my joke didn't land

qq

[balmy condor]

I’m too stupid to understand

[dense cedar]

removed the r

from ur name

so u vote

it was bad dw

[balmy condor]

OH

[primal zinc]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

My name gets misspelled so often I don’t even notice

I get whyspyr and wisper and all sorts of stuff

[royal lantern]

do you think i really wanna write whispyr all the time

i just say whispr cus you understand it anyway

[dense cedar]

rude

[balmy condor]

Just call me shitter, like the rest of sub

[royal lantern]

bruh, i dont bully people that wanna play assassination

its not cool too kick somone that is allready on the ground

[balmy condor]

Probably should bully them though

So they know their place

[shadow tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-stop-hes-already-dead-gif-15192144

https://tenor.com/view/sad-blackish-anthony-anderson-tears-upset-gif-4988274

Also, whoever came up with the troop system for BFA, I hope eats a rat poison sandwich

[dense cedar]

troop system?

[shadow tulip]

Those shits that die after 2 missions

1 npc to recruit, 3 different kinds

GG

[dense cedar]

putting 3 npcs would be too much work ofc

[shadow tulip]

Here I am, having 4 mounted, 2 melee and mission requires ranged to counter curse

No bonus gold, I see

[royal lantern]

bruh

bfa is over in 27hours

forget that expac

[balmy condor]

What expac

[dense cedar]

bfa never happened

[fleet whale]

BFA is the longest wow expac ever

let that sink in

[dense cedar]

i don't feel like answering the door for something I already have

🥴

[balmy condor]

I mean, makes sense

It’s felt like the longest expac

Ever since like 8.1

I’m surprised it’s been out for 6 years tbh

[dense cedar]

[tough skiff]

BfA lasted 5 years change mind.

[frank condor]

sepsis stealth ability does not empower garotte with subterfuge taken. bug?

[balmy condor]

no

intended

[frank condor]

big sad

[balmy condor]

it doesn't give you stealth benefits

just the ability to cast a stealth ability

[peak jungle]

Weekly check in number 4 - any word on assassination buffs?

[shadow tulip]

I got 150k resource on my rogue, WTF should i do with it if not missions

[balmy condor]

@peak jungle no

[peak jungle]

Are the majority of people still here going to stick with sin in SL? or make the swap to sub

[balmy condor]

most poeple already left for sub

[steel ridge]

[lament dove]

I'm trying out sub as well and I'm starting to like it, fml

[shadow tulip]

I'll switch to sub, but ditch it the moment assa catches up

At least the 5% range

[peak jungle]

I'm kind of in the same boat @shadow tulip though I just don't seem to be enjoying my time as sub thus far

[shadow tulip]

Me neither

[balmy condor]

I'd much rather play sin

[shadow tulip]

But playing the spec doesn't matter if I'm benched

So...

[peak jungle]

I mean, at the end of the day I want to have to fun because it's a game. But getting benched for being low on the meters as sin is not very fun either.

[balmy condor]

yeah sad life

[grim jay]

better benched than outlul tho

#nohate

[shadow tulip]

Well

I hate RTB

But I had to just get over it

So got myself a puke bucket next to the desk and went for it

It was outperforming anything in BFA

[drifting cloud]

:?

[shadow tulip]

It was better than both assa and sub

[grim jay]

if there would be no way I could play with sin or sub, I'd just reroll mage for the time being 😄

[shadow tulip]

But it's not rogue

I'm maining rogue since Cata

[grim jay]

well same, it never happened to me so

[atomic gate]

There's no way they dont do big blanket buffs/nerfs week 1

but then again its blizzard and they have no employees so imma shrug

Sin is behind by almost 30% to the other rogue specs right?

[balmy condor]

15%ish in single target

[dim yacht]

what about aoe?

[balmy condor]

farther

[dim yacht]

oof

is outlaw still go to on aoe?

[balmy condor]

aoe is 25-30%

yup

outlaw meta gang gang

[dim yacht]

the part i hate most is honestly just kyrian

the ability feels so clunky and awful to use

[balmy condor]

kyrians sick imo

[dim yacht]

did reprimand get changed? cause if not, thats the part i dont like

the anima combo point is so yuck

[balmy condor]

that's the part that's sick XD

[dim yacht]

how so? getting cucked because you got a crit seems like pretty bad design

[balmy condor]

its 45 seconds

and you can shiv

and garrote

it's not that bad

[dim yacht]

maybe ill just have to deal with it and get used to it

[balmy condor]

they're all omega close

if you don't like it

[dim yacht]

oh, are they?

[balmy condor]

just don't play it

[dim yacht]

last i heard it wasnt even close

but i havent been keeping up to date

[balmy condor]

depends on what spec and what timeline

[dim yacht]

yeah has been a while since i checked

hows sub aoe compared to sin atm?

[balmy condor]

also giga ahead

[dim yacht]

well, probably not the worst thing. if sin is so far behind,i feel like some tuning passes are gonna happen

[balmy condor]

that's what we've been waiting for since august

[dim yacht]

guess we wait and see

[marble magnet]

Is all we need is an aura buff?

[balmy condor]

to be competitive in single target, yes

in m+? probably needs some more

[atomic gate]

Maybe mastery/poison buff for AoE

[balmy condor]

would need to be pretty big

and also throws a lot of stuff out of whack

[atomic gate]

Or idk, make sin FoK apply a bleed too

[frigid kestrel]

I remember when stacking mastery was a thing

And to me, made sense

[balmy condor]

a think a mastery buff is the right idea, wrong execution

[atomic gate]

FoK applying bleed and poison would be cool

[marble magnet]

I like that dot classes are haste classes

[frigid kestrel]

In general I’d agree, but I always thought of sin being poison based lore wise. And since mastery affects poisons...... things just in my head made sense.

[balmy condor]

they need to pick which direction they want sin to go in

and then buff accordingly

[marble magnet]

Is Shiv = Colossus Smash?

[balmy condor]

shiv is much less rotation defining

but it is a damage multiplier

so kind of

[marble magnet]

what does Shiv mean "until canceled"

[balmy condor]

it means "datamining error don't read me"

[marble magnet]

it's just for keybind purposes if I'm putting Shiv in the same bind as smash

[balmy condor]

probably fine to do that, ye

whatever is comfortable for you

[marble magnet]

Is azerite traits dead the second I level up

[balmy condor]

the second you enter a shadowlands zone actually

[dim yacht]

does anyone know how to make being in stealth change your action bar? idr how i changed it to not

[balmy condor]

should be [stance:1]

and then page to whatever bar you want to change

[bleak glacier]

does flagellation give us haste or mastery?

[balmy condor]

haste

[dim yacht]

where is that setting whispyr? im not sure what you mean

[balmy condor]

that's for elv

[dim yacht]

oh, im not using elv

[marble magnet]

Doesnt stealth auto change the action bar?

[dim yacht]

yes, but somehow i have it so it doesnt

and i have no clue how i changed it lol

im using vanilla UI

[balmy condor]

interface -> actionbars

maybe

[marble magnet]

Can you try putting your spells back again

[dim yacht]

okay i think i found it, looks like it specifically only works for action bar 1

and not 2

[balmy condor]

correct

[dim yacht]

okay theres my problem lol

[balmy condor]

would need an addon to page more than the first bar afaik

[dim yacht]

easy enough to fix

[marble magnet]

do people use the other action bar pages

[balmy condor]

I turn it off personally

[dim yacht]

im on an rp server, and my rogue was a rp character only during legion, and only started doing content in bfa

so my first action bar page ended up being a bunch of rp stuff

[light kestrel]

I haven't paid any attention to legendaries. Are they really as close as they seem in the pin? I know some lose value depending on the situation, like zoldyck.

[tame agate]

night fae bis now? think i might stick with kyrian

[balmy condor]

Night fae is better at higher renown levels

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck is the go-to legendary, but there’s a couple close ones yeah. Not sure when zoldyck would lose value though

[light kestrel]

In a fight that doesn't really have an execute phase because of mechanics, something like that

[upbeat tinsel]

Anyone care to weigh in whether gaining necrolord synergy in a m+ group would be worth the play, if your group otherwise wouldn't have? Under the impression probably not, but given the covenants aren't terribly far off from each other

[light kestrel]

But then there'd be some where the boss starts in the execute range so

[marble magnet]

you mean in a necrolord dungeon?

[balmy condor]

Well even without an execute phase, it still adds a ton of damage

[grizzled jay]

The only Legendary that matters is what is good on Denathrius, and since P4 is a straight soft-enrage burn, Zoldyck will be best on that fight.

[balmy condor]

And usually the end of the fight is the hardest

[upbeat tinsel]

Yeah Vedney, I typically run with the same other 4 players so there won't be swapping in other players when doing those dungeons

[balmy condor]

Necro is a little behind, but if you really want that necro for dungeons

[nocturne orchid]

So, Kyrian in the end=

?

[balmy condor]

It’s worth it

Kyrian at the start

NF at the end

[nocturne orchid]

i mean covenant abilities are unlocked on 60 right?

[balmy condor]

Yes

You get to level with them

But you choose at 60

[light kestrel]

I was really looking forward to dashing scoundrel or doomblade, of the two the first seems like it's useful in more situations

[nocturne orchid]

oh well

[balmy condor]

You can use dashing if you want to

[nocturne orchid]

i really thought bone spike was worth it tho

[balmy condor]

Dashing loses a lot of value outside of single target though

If you’re looking for most useful in a variety

That’s zoldyck

[light kestrel]

Really? It seems like it would be pretty good on AoE too, since it would cause your poisons to crit on them more often. The energy is kinda redundant because of rupture

[balmy condor]

It’s fine, all the covenants are pretty close

The energy is the reason it’s good

The crit is an added bonus

[grim tree]

is viable assa for raid o is best outlaw or sub

[grizzled jay]

Necro will technically outperform Kyrian at the beginning, just that difference will be shown in the increase to your allies' DPS not your personal DPS.

[balmy condor]

Sin is not currently viable in any content

If you’re trying to be optimal

Outlaw and sub are both good choices

[light kestrel]

Gotcha, thanks for the help

[balmy condor]

Np

Glad to be of service :)

[grim tree]

I don't really like to play subtlety or outlaw I prefer murder

[balmy condor]

Well do you mind being bottom of the meters?

[nocturne orchid]

i can do outlaw but i don't like that much RNG

[balmy condor]

As it stands right now, you’re looking at a loss of ~15% in single target, and ~30% in aoe

If you play sin

If that doesn’t bother you enough to play outlaw/sub, you don’t push high keys, you don’t push mythic, etc

Then play sin

[grim tree]

my idea is to raide mythical and make mythical +15 + 17

[nocturne orchid]

aight i get it

[balmy condor]

You’ll be able to do that with sin, but it’s definitely more difficult

[grim tree]

😩

I don't like to play suti

[fleet whale]

i'm still on the fence on being a rogue or DK in SL

but i guess it's easy to maintain two chars anyway

[fallow otter]

Yup should be I hope

[wind totem]

Seeing as how I don't have weapons for outlaw do you guys have any tips for leveling as Sin? I picked these talents but I'm open to corrections.

[tender folio]

Why the hell is Kyrian again the best >.<

[cunning needle]

i know this is the wrong channel but i always recommend sub for levelling since you can burst down a target quickly and have passive regen. being able to jump a target from 30 yards away also is nice

[rustic juniper]

I don't think build matters too much for questing. Master Assassin and leeching are quite nice. MFD is as well but I'm totally a lazy quester so I go vigor.

[cunning needle]

also take subterfuge instead of MA

[fleet whale]

all covenants are extremely close just chose what you like

i would also maybe take blindside for leveling tbh

the ambush procs are nice

[cunning needle]

internal bleeding is also better i think

since it does decent damage

[wind totem]

@cunning needle I hate sub with a passion. I'll quit wow before I play that spec.

[cunning needle]

LOL

fair enough then

[wind totem]

Why subterfuge over master assassin? Traits are disabled

[fleet whale]

you hate sub so much

yet you have a blue name lol

[cunning needle]

yeah i was a bit confused hahaha

[wind totem]

what does a blue name mean?

[fleet whale]

sub rogue lol

[cunning needle]

blue = sub

[wind totem]

wtf

[cunning needle]

red = assi

[wind totem]

dansgame

how do i change it quick

[fleet whale]

if you want it gone

[wind totem]

pls

[cunning needle]

#bot-spam

go there

[fleet whale]

go to botspam

and type !subtlety

[cunning needle]

🤣

[wind totem]

wow

fuck

now its yellow

[fleet whale]

you were all three roles

if you want outlaw gone

[wind totem]

smh

[fleet whale]

type !outlaw

[wind totem]

outlaw is fine

ill main outlaw in SL

So anyway

why subterfuge when SS is gone?

[sharp pivot]

I'm going main Outlaw too, and going to Venthyr x)

[cunning needle]

dunno old habits die hard i guess

and mutliates dont hit that hard

garrote still stronk i think

[wind totem]

I pick MA cuz Marked for death + envenom = ez crit

[cunning needle]

ah yeah true

with subterfuge you could garrote x3 targets though

for cleave

[wind totem]

We are leveling as a party

we have a lan party and everything

it wont be needed

[cunning needle]

oh that sounds sick

[wind totem]

we are 4 people at the lan party and like 3 other friends on discord with us

we are going to be 2 leveling parties

[cunning needle]

maybe take EP instead then?

since you'll have the buff straight up

[tender folio]

and hold hands 😄

[wind totem]

Hands would be busy with spamming buttons

but eye gazes are free

[cunning needle]

just hold dicks instead

[wind totem]

#docking

I wouldnt suggest googling docking dicks though

[cunning needle]

yeah im not doing that on a work network

[wind totem]

wise decision

any tips for leveling? I'm stocking up on flasks/food/pots but cant think of anything else

[cunning needle]

goblin fliers?

[fleet whale]

kill the mobs before they kill you

[wind totem]

oh yeah

[fleet whale]

that's the best advice

[wind totem]

fucking hated this last patch

cuz i coudlnt enchant my cloak

and had to buy the gliders

[cunning needle]

keep your hp above 0

[wind totem]

well craft them

[cunning needle]

im a stingy bastard so i just use

slowfall trinkets

and weaps

like fangs

[wind totem]

oh yeah just remembered drums

and speed pots

[cunning needle]

thought drums disabled?

or is it only older drums

[wind totem]

huh

dont know

[half light]

is Night Fae still the best covenant for Assa?

[cunning needle]

oh nvm its nerfed to 15%

assuming that is still current

[half light]

quite a hefty nerf

[cunning needle]

yeah so much old content stuff either nerfed or cant be used

i'm still salty theyve removed legacy effects on old legendaries

timewalking became a whole lot less fun

oh yeah don't forget to get the horse shoes that give + movement speed

[wind totem]

what are those

first time i hear of them

[wind totem]

bought

thanks a lot guys

very helpful

[cunning needle]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=168412/light-step-hoofplates

those

[wind totem]

I think anti daze will be more useful

but thanks anyway

[cunning needle]

i think thats about everything i can think of

maybe some hp pots as well

since theyre on seperate CD

[wind totem]

yeah i got those

i also got some speed pots

Flasks/heal pots/speed pots/battle pots/food/gliders/tomes for consumables

[cunning needle]

yeah i think thats about it

uhhh

maybe speed/exp gems?

[wind totem]

wait

what

xp gems

[grizzled jay]

there's no exp gems

[cunning needle]

nvm xp gem nerfed

[wind totem]

what about that speed gem

[cunning needle]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=153715/straddling-viridium

appears to be very very marginal though

oh nvm commets are saying its fixed

[wind totem]

works for me

i got 1 gem slot only

but i got that 3% move speed

😄

[cunning needle]

haha yeah

i mean if youre min maxing

everything adds up anyway

[wind totem]

https://i.imgur.com/sWf0RvY.png

maybe i overkilled it a bit

😄

[fleet whale]

i try to limit my bag space as much as i can before an expansion launches

bag space gets eaten up fast while leveling

[cunning needle]

hahaha i wonder if you'll even go through all of that

[wind totem]

I mean I can always discard stuff I deem not useful enough

[cunning needle]

farmed that 34 slot bag?

and got auto vendor addons?

[wind totem]

pff no

and yes

Got leatrix plus

auto quests

auto vendor

ez

[grizzled jay]

there's a +5% movespeed gem btw lol

and it stacks with the +3%

[cunning needle]

oh is there?

oh my bad so there is

https://www.wowhead.com/item=169220/straddling-sage-agate

[wind totem]

wow

you owe me 30g now

[cunning needle]

send me a C.O.D

[wind totem]

are you on kazzak?

[cunning needle]

haha frostmourne

[wind totem]

smh

scammer

[cunning needle]

gottem

it was all a ruse

to clear out the straddling viridium market

[wind totem]

you are probably on kazzak and I bought your gem

I know it

[cunning needle]

no refunds

[wind totem]

typical goblins

[exotic abyss]

how far behind is assass?

[quick tulip]

hey guys which specc are you choosing for leveling and raiding? im currently sublety but i heard that outlaw seems the better option?

[exotic abyss]

stop posting that in every channel

[quick tulip]

i try to get from everybody an answer 😄

[summer cape]

https://www.strawpoll.me/35194024

ps don' tmind the "sub" thing

[strange python]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Sorry for the last reply,about 15% st and 25-30% aoe

[drifting cosmos]

Really? 25-30 behind on aoe?

That's huge

[balmy condor]

Yes

It is

[drifting cosmos]

Rip sin at 1st tier?

[balmy condor]

Atm, yes

[stray ivy]

was Sin good on last day of SL beat

beta

[grizzled jay]

tomorrow is the last day of SL beta

[prisma yoke]

tomorrow is first day of extended SL beta (aka live)

[balmy condor]

[stray ivy]

was sin good in m+

[balmy condor]

No

[fleet whale]

in bfa it was a decent M+ spec, above average i would say

in sl... no

[balmy condor]

Sin isn’t good at anything in beta

[fleet whale]

it's a forgotten rogue spec

[balmy condor]

Yep

[grizzled jay]

wonder if it gets a rework in 10.0 🤔

[stray ivy]

ahh dang its the only rogue spec i liked

guess no rogue

[rustic juniper]

My two favorite specs are sin rogue and feral druid, going to be a long expansion lol

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s a little sad

Just know that I’ll be here for you when we can all enjoy our specs again

[prisma yoke]

the more i look at the soulbind pictures, the more confused i am

[balmy condor]

Why’s that

[prisma yoke]

are the highlighted lines the picks?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[prisma yoke]

that would mean there are less than 2 potency conduits picked at times?

[balmy condor]

Correct

[prisma yoke]

Nadjia for example

[balmy condor]

Yeah

That passive at the end of nadjia’s tree is stronger than the potency that would other go into that slot on the left

[prisma yoke]

yeah 3%

[balmy condor]

Idk how much it is, but sure

I can believe it

[prisma yoke]

i just read the number

not saying it is better by 3%

[balmy condor]

Oh

Yeah, that effect is stronger than the potency would be

So you take that over the potency

Seems to be 3% delta from that passive vs 2.4% delta from the conduit

[prisma yoke]

i wanted to go necrolords, but since i havent played beta i will have to believe, that fleshcraft is only good on paper and not worth the 4sec cast

[grizzled jay]

what do you mean

just press it before the boss fight 🤔

or during intermission

[balmy condor]

Yeah you can just precast it ez pz

[prisma yoke]

but not so much in dungeons

when you're on a timer for example

[balmy condor]

You can probably still cast before bosses

But trash maybe not yeah

[fallow otter]

It's only really good in dungeons

For damage

Not in raid

The shield is obv though

You don't need full channel for the damage

[grizzled jay]

you just instantly use it as soon as a pack dies in an M+

i do it all the time

[fallow otter]

Yeh

In raid tho

You can't use it for dmg at all

[grizzled jay]

there are bosses you can channel it, like Sludgefist

[fallow otter]

Yeh

I won't be in melee for prog most likely

Unless we need a soak

[fleet whale]

blizz hates melee confirmed

[strange python]

aww

playing the hard classes is fun tho

i like how many of the new batch of rogues are gone already haha

there were a million for a sec and they were all like fuck this is hard cya

[night cypress]

or at least gone from here, over to sub

[strange python]

traitors

treachery of the highest order

[night cypress]

I agree, but also 👀 if that dps better

[strange python]

haha ikr

i'm not ready to make the switch yet, still have a long way to go with sin

[night cypress]

I'm just concerned I won't be able to sub as well as I can sin and the switch wont be worth

much to think about

[balmy condor]

Sub isn’t that hard

[night cypress]

as long as it isn't outlul

[balmy condor]

I’m sure you can do it :)

[strange python]

ya i hear sin is a good base to start sub from

[daring olive]

There's no spec you can't pick up in the 3 weeks before the raid imo

if you put the work into it and analyse logs

[night cypress]

haha thanks for the vote of confidence

[strange python]

i think PvE isn't bad at all

just PvP sub you gotta think 10 steps aheead

[daring olive]

It's confidence, aswell as knowing the classes in this game aren't exactly that mechanically challenging anymore

[strange python]

still pretty hard tho

the sub burst combo is 17 keys

and you have so many variables to switch out

[daring olive]

Right but you're only pressing one rotational ability per gcd

[strange python]

then getting off your blinds/stuns/locking down the healer before kills

[daring olive]

General play of sub is pretty simple

[strange python]

i think easy to learn hard to master

[daring olive]

Sure

[strange python]

i agree

its just the little stuff adds up

and that takes time

like knowing when to use your kit and your windows

[fallow otter]

Learn dance

Easy clap

[night cypress]

how is there no shadow dance emote

[strange python]

haha ya

dance has so much utlility hard to wrap my mind around when I want to use it

[royal lantern]

what

how has dance too much utility

its either

shadowstrike

or cheapshot if you need cc

thats it lmao

[balmy condor]

Because this channel is real quiet, so it’s gotta be filled with something

Might as well be pvp sub

[low girder]

!stats