right on, thanks for clearing that up
#assassination
soft belfry
shut garnet
u get the CP as well right?
balmy condor
Yes, casting the ability gives you the cp
mental laurel
Any idea whether it makes sense damage-wise to recast it on a raid boss? I'm thinking with Emeni's Lead By Example the buff might be enough that it's worthwhile
balmy condor
yes, you recast on cd
mental laurel
Even without Emeni?
balmy condor
yes
mental laurel
Interesting. Thanks!
strange python
what the hell is u p with this ability que stuff, I am tapping garote then rupture but rupture never queues
just going tap tap it always missed it
balmy condor
it only queues in the last couple miliseconds
you can change the latency using a console command
strange python
ya i've been messing with the latency
balmy condor
yeah I wouldn't suggest it
strange python
wont even work when i turn it to zero
balmy condor
well yes
strange python
you just have to slow down a little?
strange python
i tried it at 0 and 400
balmy condor
400 is probably janky as well yup
strange python
and 250 haha
balmy condor
probably also too long
balmy condor
that's more reasonable
balmy condor
I don't think I understand the question
strange python
okay my garrote is on q and my rupture is on r
i can hit q then r really fast
really fast with my mechanical keyboard
but the rupture won't register even tho i am clearly pressing it
balmy condor
well idk how fast is "really fast"
but that sounds like you're just hitting the keys really quickly back to back
strange python
ya
strange python
but its not at the same time
just tap tap really quick
like how other games would respond haha
it would be fine
balmy condor
you're still gcd locked though
strange python
whats that
balmy condor
when you hit an ability
there's a cooldown until you cast your next ability
for rogues its a flat 1 second
fallow otter
You talking about spell queue?
balmy condor
spell queue doesn't magically make your abilities cast faster
strange python
i know but I am trying to hit 7 keys in 3.5 seconds to use subterfuge
balmy condor
it just allows you to press the button a couple miliseconds before that gcd is up
fallow otter
I run 200
balmy condor
you will get 3 abilities out in 3 seconds
strange python
even tho i can press the 7 keys in 3 seconds
balmy condor
yes
strange python
ohh
balmy condor
that's a gcd
strange python
so i my opener is fucked up then
haha
damn been trying to hit 7 in 3 seconds
wondering why tf it wouldn't queue
balmy condor
This is the cooldown that starts whenever you cast a spell, preventing you from casting another spell until its finished. Typically it's abbreviated to 'GCD'. Most spells have a 1.5 second GCD, although some classes have a 1 second GCD
strange python
shouldn't it still queue in that 1 second window ?
balmy condor
from wowhead
fallow otter
No
balmy condor
the queue is for latency
strange python
ahh so you just have to get used to doing 1 thing a second
sour fractal
i'm stuck inside a target dummy when i use shadow step lmao
fallow otter
If you want to understand spell queue
strange python
instead of going to fast
balmy condor
hold on
fallow otter
balmy condor
this visual also might help
you're not getting more frostbolts
you're just hitting the button in the window
so it queues to the server
and when you're able to use it, it'll use it
it's not an actual queue
strange python
Hmm
balmy condor
like it doesn't just cast the abilities you press in a row
strange python
balmy condor
its just latency
fallow otter
What is that list
sour fractal
did you guys see my screenshot?
balmy condor
yes we saw
strange python
makes sure you get your kidney then you get your cheapshot in
but the queue is getting all fucky and I can only do it like 20% of the time
narrowed it down to garrote and rupture and I am just going too fast
balmy condor
yeah honestly no fucking clue what that is
that cheap shot feels like a typo
either that or a vanish
strange python
well you can't proc cheapshot twice in a row for full
so you go kdiney
then cheapshot for like an 8 second stun
balmy condor
correct
but you can't cast cheap shot out of stealth, and according to that list, you would have to vanish
strange python
ya i was just assuming you did it all in the 3 second window which seems to work sometimes
sour fractal
kidney shot is more pvp?
balmy condor
I find it difficult to believe that you can cast 4 abilities which are all on the gcd
strange python
ohh
balmy condor
and the a cheap shot
balmy condor
@sour fractal you use it in dungeons as well, and sometimes in raids depending on what kind of trash spawns in the encounter
sour fractal
that's pretty sick
balmy condor
you can mark in stealth, the kidney takes you out
strange python
ya
i was adding mark in the combo
just going really quick
if you set it up
you can save a movement
sour fractal
rogue is more mobile than hunter i like it
strange python
nah still kinda fucky hmm, when it works it does so much dmg haha
fallow otter
You can't cheapshot
balmy condor
its just not possible to cheapshot
fallow otter
With that order
balmy condor
yeah
fallow otter
No chance
sour fractal
cheap shot doesn't work on bosses i tried it
balmy condor
neither does kidney
strange python
i think i just did it with the mark first
fallow otter
@sour fractal this is pvp
strange python
mark, wait a second then pound the combo
sour fractal
well pvp in alterac
strange python
well i'm saying thats .5 seconds a move
fallow otter
No change subt is still up
balmy condor
that's not possible
balmy condor
you can't cast more than 1 ability per second my dude
GCD
we just had this discussion
strange python
okay I need to read up on ability queues more haha cuz in theory it should remember when i punched then roll one move into the next
balmy condor
that's not how ability queues work
fallow otter
No
balmy condor
that's not what they do
balmy condor
lets count
you kidney, break stealth, now you have 3 second of subterfuge
you garrote, thats 2 seconds left
you reaping flame, that's 1 second left
you mut, that's 0
you rupture, that's -1 seconds left
now you go to cheap shot
you don't have seconds left
fallow otter
No you're not understanding that using your analogy, the game limits you to 50wpm it doesn't matter if you can type 160wpm
balmy condor
you literally just are not able to cast more than 1 ability per second unless its off the gcd
like vendetta for example, or cloak
strange python
In the new ability queue system, if you are on global cooldown or in the middle of an action, and press another hotkey, the game remembers that, and queues the ability, performing it after the first one is finished. If you play it right that is going to improve your ability output, because it gets around the problem of lag making you think you are still on cooldown, while in reality you are not.
balmy condor
those aren't on the gcd, you can cast those freely
strange python
^ that's what I read
balmy condor
yes
dry atlas
This is the cooldown that starts whenever you cast a spell, preventing you from casting another spell until its finished. Typically it's abbreviated to 'GCD'. Most spells have a 1.5 second GCD, although some classes have a 1 second GCD (i.e. a Deathknight in Unholy Presence).
balmy condor
it doesn't cast it
it queues it
until you can cast it
which is once a second
you can mash your face into your keyboard all you want, but you're not getting past the hard locked once per second
balmy condor
yup
unkempt nacelle
hey guys, how's assassination doing in SL? returning from legion and don't really enjoy playing sub anywhere near as much as assassination. i'll be doing m+ and pvp strictly.
unkempt nacelle
yeah in pvp it's "okay", especially b/c sub is just so strong
sad to hear about m+
i'm sure it'll be fine when just doing up to your weekly 15's though?
unkempt nacelle
neat
balmy condor
but dungeon slice atm is showing it ~20-25% behind outlaw and sub
outlaw m+ meta is reigning on
unkempt nacelle
reee
balmy condor
yup
sour fractal
is maxdps rotation helper helpful?
balmy condor
depends on whats helpful
sour fractal
ah okay thank you i'll keep it on till i learn it by heart
violet wasp
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
balmy cradle
is shiv debuff now infinite or wrong tooltip? on live servers for lvl 58 it say "..for until canceled."
balmy cradle
okay would have been funny tho 😄
balmy condor
Yuh
low girder
Aura buff when
balmy condor
Soon tm
fallow otter
Sin not going to compete in anything with cleave even if we get
Compare that to aff, no point to roll sin
Sadly
low girder
It'd just be nice to have sin brothers and sisters not losing to outlaw in ST
You know
fallow otter
True
low girder
Give em something
fallow otter
I should have rogue and lock ready for ce race pretty easy, I bet I'm always on lock 
royal lantern
if you want a 100%secured raidspot
melee dps is not the best option
100%safe is either warlock mage or hunter
or if you somehow manage too be the guild tank
fallow otter
I've got raid spot safe coz i can flex, it's more about bringing best toon
There are a few soaks though afaik
royal lantern
rogue is not really better or worse then other classes for soaking
gray fjord
I'm going to test this now myself, but would any folks on happen to know if the nature damage from any of the SL trinkets is whitelisted with Shiv bonus nature damage?
balmy condor
I think they only added sepsis
But in theory nature damage trinkets should works
We’ll see though
gray fjord
Darn, had a 
moment with how strong some of these nature damage trinks are. I grabbed a few from the vendor so I'm gonna see. Trying to gather some info on that.
gray fjord
Kinda hoping they gave it the deeper daggers treatment where every fricken nature bonus in the game is buffed while shiv is active. xD
Especially with well-placed steel
balmy condor
And sin still sucks
gray fjord
💔
balmy condor
gray fjord
It's really not /that/ far off. The AoE is the big oof without Echoing blades and shrouded suff
balmy condor
I kekchamp on the outside but I sadge on the inside
gray fjord
Like 2 target it seems solid still, but yeah the fact its pure single target is still lower than outlaw is a kekw
balmy condor
Most frustrated thing is that some targeted buffs/changes could make it perfectly fine
But we’re just Vibin in shitter tier
gray fjord
Absolutely. I hate seeing any rogue spec get stiffed, but I think assassination is going to hurt the most with the loss of azerite armor out of all 3
balmy condor
Ye
gray fjord
That and the troll move of putting Shiv bonus damage at 58 so you didn't even have it during pre patch. like wth xD
balmy condor
Yeah idk
gray fjord
Blizz: Oh we're rolling toxic blade into shiv for you guiz
Blizz: Oh you don't get it till 58 
Blizz: Oh and we put out empowered versions of poisons but you can't use them unless you are going to tunnel that target for 9 seconds. 
4D chess at Blizzard, some times.
balmy condor
I think the thing that bugs me the most
Is that shiv’s Tb effect
Is nerfed
It already wasn’t huge
gray fjord
It's nerfed and you have to give up utility for DPS or DPS for utility just to use it in either scenario.
Whereas Outlaw/sub it's just utility.
gray fjord
Like serious gigamind level stuff
fallow otter
Buff PB so ST catches up, buff CT so aoe catches up - or even better, rework the whole fuckin row
gray fjord
I'd say turn Hidden Blades into Echoing Blades. GG ez done
balmy condor
Ct should be baseline imo and do more instant damage
Turn it into an aoe finisher with a dot
fallow otter
CT talent adds instant dmg* and make it baseline
balmy condor
Or that
low girder
Yeah if sub just straight up gets an aoe finisher baseline the "spec identity" excuse is dead
May as well give us one too
low girder
Yeah none are particularly impactful anymore
low girder
Not that I can think of
gray fjord
@balmy condor You right about the shiv thing on trinkets, btw Whispyr. 💔 Sadge
fallow otter
Pretty sure nothing works that way though
gray fjord
xD At least I can bring something of a silver lining, then
Well to be fair Deeper daggers affects all shadow damage, hence why I was curious about nature damage with nature trinkets
fallow otter
I meant skills, pretty sure abilities that buff x dmg only ever work for class stuff
Like MA only working on rogue stuff
gray fjord
Ah, fair point then. Admittedly I never even had considered interactions between shiv and nature damage outside of the base toolkit so I wasn't certain exactly how it played out. ^^;
fallow otter
But I do remember warriors abused draught of souls with crit right?
gray fjord
I think Draught of Souls + one of their cooldowns that gave like guaranteed crits was a thing for a lot of Legion. My internet is being crap right now so I can't remember the name and can't look it up that quickly. xD
Not sure if it was part of their artifact or not.
gray fjord
Ah yeah that's it, I only log on my fury warrior like once a month for random transmog runs and mount runs so I couldn't for the life of me remember. xD
I thought it was way higher than 20% though, Hm. I feel like there was something else they stacked with it like Avatar or something like that. Idk, I never really play my warrior and didn't have one in Legion so I can't say what their little meme was with that trinket.
low girder
That was when subt delayed the 5s MA timer
fallow otter
Press every butan then draught
gray fjord
xD
gray fjord
On to the topic of Legion, I kinda actually miss the Nightblooming Frond trinket some times. It was like either amazing or horrible, never anything in between. lol
fallow otter
I remember that boe trinket was bis
gray fjord
6 Feathered Fan was pretty nuts, yeah
crystal blaze
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
strange python
been messing with addons all day. i wanted something low clutter, but still have my timers to the left of my head with my gladius on my right. also using sliceadmiral for a count down on my garrote/rupture/slice and dice. pretty happy with it but open to suggestions
primal zinc
real bay
verbal mantle
bright lintel
With kleia being nerfed I assume venthyr sims highest now
slender berry
check the sheet
vestal wren
even better, wait a bit till burrs is updated too^^
bright lintel
I am not clicking links from stranger on the internet 
I'll wait for the lovely @vestal wren summary pictures with bis legendaries, soulbinds and rank 7 conduits
low girder
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
tender smelt
Is sin still fun or is it just annoying with Slice and Dice?
green jetty
so, i'm coming back after a almost 4 month break, and i haven't been into WoW lately, i decided to come back, obviously, like i always do for expansions and i gotta admit, i'm pretty confused with legendaries and stuff :D Sheet's helping a little bit out there, just gotta figure out what some things even mean haha, thanks @vestal wren
bright lintel
niya goes burrrrr?
vestal wren
possible
violet wasp
!bis
verbal mantle
check the channel pins mate
violet wasp
u right
tender folio
omg Venthyr is back 😮
sonic yacht
do rupture and garrote ignore armor on the target? if so do they ignore all of it or just a %?
warped umbra
guys i have a question, i'm wondering for some time now for what reason assa is the only rogue spec that can use it's mount and hearthstone while stealthed and the others can't, was this ever mentioned somewhere?
slender berry
probably blizzard spaghetti code
dense cedar
@warped umbra I think that might be Subterfuge doing that
warped umbra
<@!434653208166531073> I think that might be Subterfuge doing that
Oh you are right, just checked. It never occurred to me that this was the cause of subterfuge because the hearthstone cast is way longer than 3s, thanks very much!
So sub is also able to do that, subterfuge just wasn't meta for sub at any point in the near past so i didn't notice...
vestal wren
subtlerfuge was meta for the majority of time
pliant apex
do you guys think assa can do well on its own, like im trialing in this guild as rogue
can i get by doing well with assa in raids?
clear trial and all?
umm ok
vestal wren
assassination atm needs a slight buff
frigid kestrel
You can play any class in raids and prog, However Sin is lacking a lil in the DPS department.
dry atlas
Just learn sub
frigid kestrel
iLL STICK TO MY sIN GUNS
wind zenith
ill stick to my sins
frigid kestrel
However Sub isnt hard to play either so if you dont mind playing it it is a solid choice....... i feel like saying that statement i committed a sin (Pun intended)
balmy condor
I’m probably playing sub m+ and sin in raid if I can
sterile jackal
tbh sub is way better for lvling than sin
balmy condor
I always level sub
tropic ocean
can i get by doing well with assa in raids?
Depends on what guild I guess
pliant apex
ah guilds aiming CE wouldnt want assa ?
tropic ocean
Depends on what guild
tropic ocean
You need to check with them
balmy condor
Then fuck it
frigid kestrel
Ye, unless you play the shit pretty damn well. Exceptions are made, im in a CE guild and am playing Sin.... but ive been in the guild so that may be the difference.
sterile jackal
as i was watching fatboss videos for CN i was wondering if outlaw should be a way to do most of these fights
tropic ocean
Ye, unless you play the shit pretty damn well. Exceptions are made, im in a CE g...
Same here
balmy condor
Outlaw seems pretty good
tropic ocean
the new reply function is good
frigid kestrel
Wasn't like that until that Corruption vendor came out
Also sub is pretty much the same thing
tropic ocean
Antorus sin was my favorite one
sterile jackal
corruption was a bad thing
tropic ocean
Not too much starving
sterile jackal
i wanted to try sub at the end of 8.3 in nyalotha
but i had full ahste corruptions
tropic ocean
Execute leggy felt fun and kingsbane too
sterile jackal
so it made no sense
sterile jackal
mastery
tropic ocean
now just hoping they dont change covenants again
having same one for both pve content is good for me
sterile jackal
i'm going Kyrian, i will squeeze max out of them in raids and m+
tropic ocean
Im going night fae
tropic ocean
But personally thinking venthyr has best leather xmog
tropic ocean
Hopefully they decide to make it x covenant moggable when you unlocked it
tropic ocean
Really hate that limitation same for heritage
sterile jackal
tmog basic sets from other covenants
tropic ocean
Oh you can?
sterile jackal
but you will not be able to tmog colour tints
pliant apex
oh
lime lintel
Yo, does anybody know how to do the glitch to transmog daggers into outlaw artifact and then use the mog in another spec?
frail fossil
literally all covs are fine
sterile jackal
the differences are rly low
pliant apex
kk
frail fossil
night fae is just winning by quite a margin in m+ cuz of first strike
lime lintel
oh ty!
frail fossil
but it will get nerfed
balmy condor
Wdym by work
pliant apex
viable?
frail fossil
no idea
balmy condor
I don’t think a BG meta has been established
So I doubt that’s something that can be answered
sterile jackal
i found today pretty good google doc about preparation to SL
if some1 want to read a bit
hope it was not posted before
balmy condor
It’s been making it’s round ye
jovial haven
It’s pinned in general as well
grizzled jay
if you buy a boe you're a smooth brain
balmy condor
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
balmy condor
Or in the pins
nimble garnet
thanks whis
balmy condor
Np
balmy condor
that would be !guide
fleet whale
rotation is kind of self explanatory
frigid kestrel
just wanted to see if it would work, i know the rotation
halcyon oak
!covenant
inner surge
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
halcyon oak
!spec
prisma monolithBOT
All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#class=Rogue
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-bfa-4/world/rogue/all
willow vine
3 more days til I fuck around and choose necrolord 😎
rocky ibex
what's the top spec for raiding?
tender smelt
been hearing that sin is bad in m+ compared to the other 2 specs, is it something blizz can fix easy or is it tricky?
balmy condor
@rocky ibex atm looking like outlaw
sub probably good too
but melee sucks
@tender smelt depends on what "fix" is
they could just omega buff rupture or something
and it would probably be okay
there's a lot of things they could theoretically do
we don't know what, or even if
tender smelt
alright, sounds good
balmy condor
there's also little bit of an identity crisis
marble hemlock
does someone have an assa bislist? :x
drifting kayak
best covenant for assas?
balmy condor
pins
marble hemlock
if i have to sim more haste/mastery vs crit/versa gear im gonna shoot myself in the face
grizzled jay
i made a list of the high-haste items earlier
probably high up in this channel tho lol
grizzled jay
it would have been pasted screenshots as opposed to links
i think i went through every high-haste dungeon drop
but i can do it again idc
give me a sec
marble hemlock
njot finding anything either
just 1 ring
it doesnt matter
im gonna sim all of this shit now
not like i didnt pull 16hr days the entire week
fleet whale
So blizz posted another druid blue post yesterday
how many druid blue posts have their been in SL development?
balmy condor
@marble hemlock I can do it later if you want
marble hemlock
nah i wanna get done with this shit now so i can chill
grizzled jay
Head:
Vicious Surge Faceguard - Spires - Vers/Haste
Alternative: Hood of the Hidden Path - Mists - Haste/Mast
Shoulders:
Far Traveler's Shoulders - DOS - Crit/Vers
Alternative: Wicked Bladewing Pauldrons - SD - Haste/Mast
Chest:
Rainshadow Hauberk - Mists - Haste/Crit
Alternative: Vest of Concealed Secrets - ToP - Crit/Haste
Bracers:
Risen Monstrosity Cuffs - TNW - Haste/Vers
Alternative: Bands of the Undergrowth - Mists - Crit/Vers
There's left side
I'll do right side now
Oh I forgot cloak
marble hemlock
both alternatives so far
for helmet/shoulders
simmed higher
than the ones you posted first
marble hemlock
but i appreciate the effort
grizzled jay
I was pretty sure its not highly rated
grizzled jay
well the helm is vers/haste. surprising that a little more haste makes mastery somehow better than vers
fleet whale
wait is not a single one of our bis from Nathria?
grizzled jay
this is just preraid bis
fleet whale
oh lol
verbal radish
Venthyr=NF now? I thought I'd read the Venthyr ability was bad?
fleet whale
the abilities alone are all actually close to one another
verbal radish
Cool. Didn't really want to be a Kyrian Rogue :/
fleet whale
so blizz has succeeded for rogues at least
of us not being pigeonholed to a covenant
verbal radish
Also, thanks to all the work people have done to help the rest of us make informed decisions.
fluid galleon
Anyone other crazy people like me thinking about going Kyrian?
grizzled jay
Hands:
Winged Hunters' Gloves - Spires - Haste/Crit
Alternative: Gloves of Obscure Rituals - Plaguefall - Crit/Haste
Belt:
Sapgorger Belt - Mists - Haste/Vers
Alternative: Girdle of Shattered Dreams - ToP - Crit/Vers
Legs:
Abyssal Disharmony Breeches - Spires - Vers/Haste
Alternative: Soulfeather Breeches - DOS - Haste/Mast
Feet:
Vanquished Usurper's Footpads - ToP - Haste/Crit
Alternative: Sinsoaked Waders - SD - Crit/Haste
Rings:
Death God's Signet - DOS - Haste/Mast
Stitchflesh's Misplaced Signet - TNW - Haste/Vers
Alternative: Bloodoath Signet - ToP - Haste/Crit
I have no clue about trinkets but I am pretty sure Voracity will be BiS for Sin and then probably a passive one like Mistcaller Ocarina, Decanter of Anima-Charged Winds (for aoe), or just a random stat trinket.
@marble hemlock those should help you
marble hemlock
thanks
grizzled jay
np
fleet whale
what about the ??? trinket
the one that does something different
depending on the situation
grizzled jay
that's a meme
fleet whale
is it the shadowlands version of My'das?
grizzled jay
im like 90% sure the raw haste from Voracity is better
no there's a poison trinket that is the Shadowlands version of My'das
marble hemlock
neck="sin_stained_pendant,id=178827,bonus_id=6807/1500"
shoulder="Wicked_Bladewing_Pauldrons,id=178858,bonus_id=6807/1500"
back="drape_of_twisted_loyalties,id=180123,bonus_id=6807/1500"
chest="rainshadow_hauberk,id=178698,bonus_id=6807/1500"
wrist="risen_monstrosity_cuffs,id=178741,bonus_id=6807/1500"
hands="winged_hunters_gloves,id=180103,bonus_id=6807/1500"
waist="sapgorger_belt,id=178699,bonus_id=6807/1500"
legs="soulfeather_breeches,id=179324,bonus_id=6807/1500"
feet="Vanquished_Usurpers_Footpads,id=178797,bonus_id=6807/1500"
finger1="arachnid_cipher_ring,id=178933,bonus_id=6805/1474"
finger2="bloodoath_signet,id=178871,bonus_id=6807/1500"
main_hand="tanglewood_thorn,id=178710,bonus_id=6807/1500"
off_hand="tanglewood_thorn,id=178710,bonus_id=6807/1500"
woops
fleet whale
i thought that poison trinket was good
grizzled jay
the other one
marble hemlock
would be item list w/o trinkets
gonna sim those now
which ones are there even
that are worth simming
no clue about dungeon trinket shit
grizzled jay
the Orcarina but you cant sim it because its a group buff
marble hemlock
well im more interested in trinkets that i can sim
than the ones that i cannot
gonna be a shorter list i think
ooze
phial
what else is there
fleet whale
??? trinket... idk how you even sim that though
grizzled jay
Grim Codex
marble hemlock
phial seems to not sim the actual dmg
only the agi
pmuch everything in 2% range
decanter slightly ahead by like 0.2% or smth
codex not implemented either it seems
balmy condor
is that dungeon slice
balmy condor
full send with zoldyck and conduits and everything as well?
marble hemlock
marble hemlock
so yeah its like 3.3k with both trinkets equipped i guess
no enchants or anything
balmy condor
for what its worth, I'm getting basically the same list in kyrian, and with early conduit ranks
marble hemlock
yeah i doubt any of the covenant/conduit stuff is gonna change trinket rankings
seems like phial+decanter
balmy condor
yeah
marble hemlock
with plenty of options instead of decanter
balmy condor
yep, I agree
decanter also seems to perform really good in dungeonslice
like
really good
ooze as well
wait maybe I'm stupid
ooze is okay
honest onyx
Hello, anyone here playing only assasination for years? (like me :P)
vestal wren
Everyone who raided during the last 2 xpacs
vestal wren
33% still played assassination during tos
Blizz just loves to have assassination tuned high
So I expect them to buff it
honest onyx
I just mean, I feel like sometimes people force you to play other specs even it is not necessary, even you pull your own weight etc, I just hate that something is better by few % everyone just jumps in like they are pushing gladiator every season and going top 100 and this xpac I feel like sub will be just everyone 😄
balmy condor
playing the most optimal spec is definitely not required for your average aotc raider
vestal wren
Pvp was also dominated by assassination during bfa
honest onyx
I wanted to switch class after 5 years, but I feel like I love assa the most in wow
vestal wren
The tldr of bfa was play assassination in raid and pvp and outlaw in m+
balmy condor
ye
honest onyx
and TLDR of SL will be sub or outlul
And I just still wanna chill and play 2k max in 3s on assa 😄
grizzled jay
@marble hemlock did you not sim Voracity?
jovial haven
Blizz could sneak a 20% aura bufff on sin and then all the sub lovers would jump over to this channel
vestal wren
Sin just need to be buffed to be on par to sub and we are probably back to never playing sub
jovial haven
yeah, hopefully they just buff it to where its useful for its strengths: sustained cleave, and execute
and burst
vestal wren
And blizz has a track record of buffing sin to be ahead of subtlety if it was behind
balmy condor
sustain, cleave, execute is where it currently lands, but just weak
grizzled jay
yeah Darkmoon deck
marble hemlock
nah didnt sim it, as im just prepping a dungeon-only bis list for now
it wont be accessible until early december anyway
covert patrol
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
fleet whale
Is the darkmoon trinket any good?
fleet whale
alright so it could be worth making it then, esp if i'm not getting lucky with dungeon drops
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
weak oak
!weakauras
royal lantern
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
marble hemlock
what the flying fuck does our opener look like now anyway
balmy condor
gar snd mut rup vendetta pop off
balmy condor
hm fair
balmy condor
yeah you just mut
marble hemlock
MOAR ENERGY
apl has snd after rup as well ye
but oaky so heres my issue
subter opener
ideally you want
double garr
so its like
garr
ambush
garr
rup
mut
snd
vend
mut+
shiv
or vend>covenant>mut>shiv
i guess the MA opener with snd first then rup would mean you dont have to refresh either during shiv
so that might be the play
but for subt its the other way around imo since your first finisher will be used with more CP
makes sense to me at least
would have to hardcode openers for apl to compare :/
@fleet anchor did you do any comparisons for openers for assa?
casue
this doesnt seem optimized, but if its the best way to get a proper opening going cause you tried a variety of stuff then ill take it 😄
low girder
wtf
balmy condor
yeah that's for sure not optimized
harsh sphinx
crisp sluice
so were going sub for ST raid right
crisp sluice
in your opinion as it stands is it really trhat much of a DPS diff
marble hemlock
@balmy condor
muti
rupture
muti
garrote
snd
vendetta
covenant
mut4+
shiv
vanish
envenom```
thoughts?I disagree with ambush into mut
marble hemlock
why
balmy condor
I don't think its necessary and opens up overcapping problems
you crit the ambush into 3
marble hemlock
whats the alternative?
balmy condor
just finish
balmy condor
3cp snd, longer than rup
balmy condor
like exactly the same time?
marble hemlock
ambush
snd (3cp - 24sec)
muti
garrote
rup (4cp - 20sec)
vendetta
covenant
mut4+
shiv
vanish
envenom```which ends up with you having snd and rup at ~6sec left as you come out of shiv burst
youll drop either of them
and its the best case scenario. if your ambush is 2cp you have to mut anyway
marble hemlock
and then you adjust
ambush 2cp
muti
rup
mut
garr
snd
vend
cov
mut4+
shiv
if your ambush doesnt crit
gonna be awkward as fuck
fleet anchor
Dunno, I'd need to look into why that's doing a double SnD, probably some edge case with CP. But, as normal disclaimer, openers probably don't actually matter as much as they look for sims.
marble hemlock
could just go 5cp snd and 3+ rup after mut+garr before vend
balmy condor
maybe hold vendetta till after covenant for necro
marble hemlock
nah
if you necro you emeni
and then you want that agi burst
even if ambush is 2cp
you can
marble hemlock
ambush
mut
snd (4+)
mut
garr
rup (3+)
vend
cov
mut4+
shiv
vanish
envenom
so worst case you have a 16sec rup
3-4gcds before shiv
fleet anchor
Sepsis only got added to the last hit of Shiv last build so I haven't looked at adding a delayed Shiv yet
marble hemlock
meaning you have 5sec left when shiv ends to refresh rup, which should be enough
fleet anchor
Was not affecting the final hit for a long time
marble hemlock
its just all kinds of awkward since you have to drop the 3+ rupture/snd before everything
fleet anchor
I mean just like TB, you'll want to use Shiv on CD
Other than possibly delay for Sepsis
But that should be easy to add
marble hemlock
even with WPS, do you wanna risk ahving to refresh snd or rupt during your vendetta+shiv burst?
that seems like a big loss
fleet anchor
Shiv is frequent enough you are going to have overlaps. It was never really a gain to delay anything too much for TB either
marble hemlock
like, i dont know if it really matters if you have your first shiv 7 or 10sec into the fight. but i wanna make sure i get a proper MA burst with 3 envenoms into my vendetta+shiv
fleet anchor
The only real gain we ever found for TB was making sure to pool before it came off cooldown
balmy condor
ambush gar rup
vend sepsis shiv snd
mut vanish env mut env thingy
marble hemlock
yeah, but gotta keep in mind that while its not a super insane benefit, but we have stronger bonus TB now
balmy condor
or something like that
fleet anchor
what do you mean stronger bonus TB?
marble hemlock
WPS conduit
balmy condor
idk where else to put the snd in there
marble hemlock
pooling/lining shit up properly with a 20% TB vs doing it with 35-40% bonus TB might be a bit different in terms of raw dps gain. obviously nothing massive, but maybe half a percent or smth
balmy condor
could do like a mut snd mut before the sepsis
fleet anchor
I suppose, although you need pretty high rank before it's that much better than TB was
marble hemlock
mhye
fleet anchor
Shiv starts 10% lower
balmy condor
and then you have mut sepsis shiv into vanish env mut env
fleet anchor
TB was 30%
marble hemlock
idk man, thsi opener is hurting my head
fleet anchor
So R1 WPS is the same as old TB
marble hemlock
ye
fleet anchor
Higher ranks of WPS might change things
fleet anchor
Probably early on it's not really notably different though
balmy condor
idk timing
on that rupture
but I think its fine
I'm very bad at thinking of the timing in my head
marble hemlock
1ambush
2mut
3snd (4+)
4mut
5garr
6rup (3+)
7vend+covenant
8mut
9shiv
10vanish+envenom```this doesnt seem too bad
balmy condor
yeah similar
balmy condor
and then get fucked on a 2cp mut
fleet anchor
I'm still guessing you want to get Rupture up before SnD but I'll have to test it out
balmy condor
I will die on my hill seli
fleet anchor
With SnD R2 it's going to be close
balmy condor
snd first 
fleet anchor
I'll look at it this weekend
balmy condor
probably won't matter tbh
fleet anchor
Try to figure out what's up with that SnD line
grizzled jay
my completely feelscraft opener with Subt was Garrote -> Ambush -> SnD -> Sepsis -> Shiv -> Rupture
marble hemlock
1mut (3+ on average)
2rup
3mut
4garr
5snd
6vend+cov
7mut
8shiv
9vanish+env```Fuck you Essences
balmy condor
subt cringe
fleet anchor
😄
marble hemlock
how about that
fleet anchor
Gonna be able to remove like half the apl haha
marble hemlock
while you can still get fucked
grizzled jay
wait are we back to MA over Subt?
marble hemlock
yes
grizzled jay
oh nice
marble hemlock
i think so atleast
balmy condor
have been for months
fleet anchor
Last I looked
marble hemlock
is such a feelsbadman
fleet anchor
That row was really close
grizzled jay
@balmy condor yeah well i have not been into the sim stuff for about a month now
balmy condor
AHEAD
fleet anchor
Honestly the stealth row might be the biggest gameplay choice
balmy condor
don't take this from me
fleet anchor
But it's one of the smallest DPS choices lol
marble hemlock
and even NS wasnt far behind
dunno if you can NS sepsis
might be the play for fae
fleet anchor
That talent row is surprisingly weak nowadays
marble hemlock
but yeah i need to decide on an opener for now so i can move on to outlaw ><
fleet anchor
One of the weakest DPS talent rows in all 3 Rogue trees
It's just been propped up pretty hard by BfA mechanics
SS and such
grizzled jay
from my testing when we got the initial Sepsis changes
NS does not work with it
i can test rq just to find out if that has changed between then and now. is the final tick of Sepsis now being increased by Shiv?
fleet anchor
I think NS does maybe work with Sepsis now but it wouldn't be worth using over Rupture anyway
Because the final hit won't be affected, it's a different spell
grizzled jay
it would only be worth if we used the Potency for it
marble hemlock
1mut
2rup
3mut
4garr
5snd
6vend+cov
7mut
8shiv
9vanish+env```
with
```MAunluckyopener
1mut
2mut
3rup
4mut
5garr
6snd
7vend+cov
8mut
9shiv
10vanish+env```
in case the first mut doesnt crit, which is unlikely with 70+ crit on mutSepsis used to be one single damage spell with ramp for the final hit
marble hemlock
ye
fleet anchor
But when they made it actually work correctly it got split
marble hemlock
sepsis bonk is an entirely different spellid
which is why it didnt get whitelisted for shiv
fleet anchor
yep
fleet anchor
It just didn't get family flagged
fleet anchor
Should be working now I think though
balmy condor
yeah it does
grizzled jay
where are the target dummies at Heart of the Forest lol
marble hemlock
worst case you shiv 9sec in. that seems fine honestly
grizzled jay
i forget
fleet anchor
Think it was in the last batch of bugfixes
We got like 20 bugfixes in the last build
grizzled jay
cant you just mut sepsis rup shiv mut snd?
if mut crits you get 5 with sepsis, if it doesnt at least you get 3
marble hemlock
but then you
balmy condor
snd in shiv then
fleet anchor
lol
grizzled jay
smile
marble hemlock
i mean yeah
this all falls flat if you run mfd
which you frankly should
sims on par with vigor actually. like 0.5% less or so
fleet anchor
I mean we can probably sequence it better but at the end of the day, some% of an Envenom vs. SnD vs. lost cooldown time it's kinda whatever
marble hemlock
and its better on cleave where you get resets
grizzled jay
mfd also best for outlaw now too lol
marble hemlock
and makes the opener and rotation much better
fleet anchor
Like logically speaking the issue with short cooldowns like Shiv are
You can only set up for them
If you delay them, it's bad news
marble hemlock
casting rupture or snd during shiv hurts my feelings
fleet anchor
It's only a 25s cooldown so
marble hemlock
everytime you snd during shiv, a kitten dies
grizzled jay
eh found em
fleet anchor
So then you have to consider.. is 8% of the cooldown less or greater than 30% of an Envenom
marble hemlock
unless the fight ends after 25seconds, then sure
fleet anchor
What percentage is one finisher in the total gain
marble hemlock
but since the fight ends after 6minutes, you wasted 8% of a 25seconds cooldown which you use ~13 times
fleet anchor
Yes maybe you can delay possibly in the opener, but it can't be a generalistic thing
Otherwise you'll easily lose a full use over a fight, maybe more
Or delay for a very specific purpose like Sepsis once every 2 minutes potentially
marble hemlock
so if you compare delay vs no delay, what does the no-delay gain in a fight that lasts 6minutes for both? at most he gains 1 extra shiv+envenom
in a 6min fight, that doesnt seem like a big gain to me
fleet anchor
And that value proposition actually doesn't change due to the buff being stronger or weaker
It's a constant
marble hemlock
ye
fleet anchor
Because it's due to the cooldown/duration ratio, not the strength of the buff
grizzled jay
NS does not work with Sepsis on Beta currently
marble hemlock
fleet anchor
I mean even if it did, it wouldn't beat the DPET of Rupture iirc
marble hemlock
idk, ill go with what i posted before until we know a bit more
ye
maybe with conduit
but thats about it
fleet anchor
I'll check out the opener SnD stuff and Shiv delay for Sepsis this weekend for sure
When I prune the APL of BfA garbage
Can I pretend Exsang doesn't exist for a while too? 🤣
marble hemlock
its more apm, it gets better with any adds, and it makes the opener less of a clusterfuck
fleet anchor
Which tier 1 is that with?
marble hemlock
BS
fleet anchor
kk
fleet anchor
I suppose I or someone else with a lot of spare time needs to do another testing pass on Zoldyck
fleet anchor
To see if they made it work properly with everything
fleet anchor
I dunno if we've actually been able to confirm if Poison Bomb and a few other things work with Zoldyck
atm we're assuming anything affected by Mastery works
Garrote, Rupture, Deadly Poison, Crimson Tempest have been confirmed at least in the latest build
Don't know about Sepsis (we're guessing not) or PB yet
marble hemlock
dont forget SBS sir!
oh btw @grizzled jay
for subter i was thinking this
1garr
2ambush
3garr
4rup
5mut
6snd
7vend+cov
8mut4+
9shiv
10env```dont think you wanna skip the pandemic garr
by going garr amb rup or smth
and even a 2cp snd will last long enough to be able to refresh post-shiv
balmy condor
@marble hemlock you're gonna be mad
grizzled jay
im pretty sure pandemic garr is less AP than an Ambush
balmy condor
using this, I switched the order in the default action list
marble hemlock
would only replace the 3garr with 3amb
balmy condor
from dot, then snd
to snd then dot
got a gain
fk ur rupture nonsense
we snd boyssssssss
balmy condor
marble hemlock
no i mean
balmy condor
I switched C and D
marble hemlock
the change seems to be
balmy condor
it used snd first in opener
marble hemlock
oh
balmy condor
they use the same everything
marble hemlock
yeah well
to me its about smoothness in the opener, honestly
i dont wanna finish shiv window with 2sec left on rupture
cause i didnt crit in opener
can you show the sample seq
for that apl?
balmy condor
marble hemlock
eh