assassination

[balmy condor]

Bloodlust gives you 30% haste

Not 30% on top of your haste

Multiplicative

[summer valve]

no

it gives way more

[primal zinc]

so

[summer valve]

if you have 20% base haste, lust puts you at 56% not 50%

[balmy condor]

Really

[summer valve]

yes

[balmy condor]

That’s fucked

[summer valve]

all haste works like that

[balmy condor]

Thought they changed that after corruptions doing that

My bad then

[summer valve]

corruption was a special factor because it applies to rating

[primal zinc]

if sepsis users have so much haste with blossoms aswell do they need to target haste>versa>=crit=mastery? or use other stats prio?

[summer valve]

all rating is additive, all unique sources are multiplicative

[balmy condor]

You would just sim it

[primal zinc]

well sims are ok but in raids you need the ebst benefit

[balmy condor]

@summer valve yeah I knew that, just thought they got rid of it but was probably staring at prepatch numbers and not seeing the multiplications anymore

Thanks for the correction

[primal zinc]

i mean imo sims are like target dummis but not all bosses are tunnel mechanic

[balmy condor]

Okay

So then how are you going to find your stat weights

[drifting cloud]

how else

[balmy condor]

True

Fuck the sims

[primal zinc]

i will learn korean and join the korean rogue discord

xD

[balmy condor]

I’m unaware of such a discord

But I guarantee you they sim

[primal zinc]

ofc i will have to sim

[balmy condor]

Yes

You will

[primal zinc]

but i dont feel haste>abose else is really the right way to go

[drifting cloud]

see that word

its right there

[balmy condor]

And depending on your gear, that might be true

But that’s why we sim

[primal zinc]

i just blieve that haste will be cap and then target other stat

imo

[balmy condor]

And you can believe that all you want

But that doesn’t make it true

[drifting cloud]

ah yes cap, thing rogue hasnt had for I dont even know how long

(except 34% crit)

[balmy condor]

Just because you think, or you feel, or you believe that a stat is better than another stat

Isn’t proof that it is

We have sims to give us an idea, numerically, and get proof

[drifting cloud]

this spec also dies in 5 days just nobody told whispyr yet

[balmy condor]

It will never reflect a real fight

Because of course it won’t

You’ll find different stat priorities for carapace than you would for n’zoth, and different for raden again

And you’d go fucking crazy making the most ideal 0.00001% gain gearsets

For every individual fight

There’s no point in that

[drifting cloud]

which doesnt happen anyways because you dont have the gear

[balmy condor]

Exactly

[drifting cloud]

to cherrypick stats

[primal zinc]

whispyr lets make a bet

you with sims and me w/o sims

on a target dummie dps race

100k gold

[drifting cloud]

lol

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[primal zinc]

to 3 min winner

hahahaha

joking

[balmy condor]

I sure hope you are

Cause that might be the dumbest way to determine which is better

[gusty kestrel]

🙂

[balmy condor]

That I have ever heard

[primal zinc]

thats classic ways of better dps

xD

[balmy condor]

And it’s actually just meaningless

How bout that

[fallow otter]

Clf simmed better for a long time but blood was better alot because of the dmg profile

That happens all the time

I wonder what is going to be for SL

[balmy condor]

Looking at it right now

Probably covenants

Tbh

[primal zinc]

btw

[fallow otter]

Yeah conduits soulbinds

[gusty kestrel]

cant wait to play venthyr on prog!!!!

[primal zinc]

as for before @balmy condor you are wrong about the sepsis ability miss if you use muti....sepsis says clearly you gain 1 stealthc ability for 5 sec

[balmy condor]

Well yes

[fallow otter]

Im wondering how often I'm gong to be rogue and how often I'm gong to be lock on prog

[balmy condor]

You get 5 seconds

And if you miss it

You miss it

[fallow otter]

Looks like we might have like 3 soaks?

[primal zinc]

muti isnt stealth ability so even if sepsis expired you have 5 sec to use ambush

[bright lintel]

Im wondering how often I'm gong to be rogue and how often I'm gong to be lock on prog
@fallow otter yes

[balmy condor]

Then I misunderstood

[primal zinc]

well sorry

i wanted to mean different

[balmy condor]

It says 5 sec in the tooltip :P

[primal zinc]

i meant in those 5 sec if you use muti by mistake you lose the free ambush?

[gusty kestrel]

ngl id still not ambush

[balmy condor]

It’s not free

Ambush from stealth still costs energy

[primal zinc]

lol

thought was free

fuck it them

muti all the way in fuck those 5 sec

[balmy condor]

Nah you just get to use it

[primal zinc]

xD

and what if blindside and sepsis goes at the same time?

[balmy condor]

I’m pretty sure you use the blindside proc first

But idk

Might be jank

[primal zinc]

might count both aswell

[balmy condor]

Ye it’s possible

I don’t think it does

[fallow otter]

You going to die hard Sin?

[balmy condor]

But this beta has been jank

[bright lintel]

the fabric of stealth and time unravels

[fallow otter]

Even if it doesn't stack up?

[balmy condor]

I might play sub

[fallow otter]

Might?!

[balmy condor]

But I’d like to play sim

[fallow otter]

Lol

[balmy condor]

100% not playing outlaw

Cause outlaw can go fuck itself

But if sin is real bad then probably sub

Thinking about maybe sin raid sub m+

But idk yet

I’m letting the heart of the cards decide

[fallow otter]

I pref outlaw over sub

Sub feels too spammy

[balmy condor]

And I’d prefer outlaw not being an option in my spec window

[fallow otter]

But I'll be playing whatever is best

For the fight

[balmy condor]

But I guess we all have our things

[fallow otter]

Why the hate

Given a solid bash or haven't bothered coz you didn't like it from the get go?

[bright lintel]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

I don’t like how it plays, I don’t like how blade flurry feels, I don’t like pistol shot, I don’t like between the eyes as a concept, I don’t like the pirate fantasy, I don’t like having to carry swords around, I don’t like that I can’t use my daggers, I don’t like that we don’t have bandits guile baseline on it (revealing strike holding for red was the only part of old combat that I found fun), I don’t like roll the bones rng, I don’t like having virtually no difference from stealth (or shadow dance stealth fantasy), I don’t like ar as a cooldown, I don’t like grappling hook

[gusty kestrel]

But I’d like to play sim
@balmy condor ofc u wna play sim

[balmy condor]

[gusty kestrel]

simulations are easier than the actual game

[drifting cloud]

tisu boooly

[gusty kestrel]

???

[fallow otter]

You don't like hook ?

[balmy condor]

I sim so much my phone corrects sin to sim

It’s a sadge

[bright lintel]

oof

[fallow otter]

Go to church and confess your sims

Forgive me father for I have simmed

Patchwerk 5 targets for 30s

[balmy condor]

Forgive me seriallos for I have simmed so many gem combinations

I have taken up so many cpu cores

[gusty kestrel]

anyway back to the topic

venthyr forever!

[fallow otter]

This is the topic!

[balmy condor]

Venthyr is just coral and coral is ugly

Therefore venthyr ugly

[bright lintel]

ngl, I'm kinda happy about that because the transmog is the best one

[fallow otter]

We all know haste coral sucks

Crit Coral was pog

[balmy condor]

Coral gameplay is yucky imo

[fallow otter]

Coral font was good times

[balmy condor]

If I had to roll a coral buff through one more trash pack in m+

I’d lose my mind

At least venthyr isn’t rng

[fallow otter]

The people who didn't like it struggled being able to find the windows to pull it off imo

In raid I mean

[balmy condor]

“Windows to pull it off”

You mean.... cast with vendetta?

[fallow otter]

Haha nah

I mean Windows in mechanics and boss timers etc

Font not coral ofc

But I'm talking about the combo

[balmy condor]

Aha

Yeah channeled trinkets like font, draught, moonglaives

I’ve enjoyed

[fallow otter]

Coral for nzoth prog was fun

Mini game kept me sane for all the pulls

[balmy condor]

Coral is just a crit on use with extra steps and more rng

[fallow otter]

Back in may

[balmy condor]

And I don’t like that

[fallow otter]

Well put coral on nzoth

Don't let it drop

But you gotta go down psy1

And get as many stacks as you can for burn phase later

Sin isn't exactly difficult so I need the mini games

Like drest breath major

[balmy condor]

Ye

I agree mini games good thinking about things good

Coral? Not the game I want to see

Font usage, sick

Draught so you aren’t in bad shit, sick

Moonglaives so you hit things goodly, sick

Fishing for coral stacks until vendetta? Not sick

[fallow otter]

Yeah very few fights it's actually a mini game

Mostly it's just press butan

[balmy condor]

Ye

Crit on use with extra steps

Very annoying imo

It was fun for like 2 months but then it got old

And then it was good for another tier

[fallow otter]

First drest kill

Lol

[balmy condor]

Envenom botd top 2

What the

[fallow otter]

February

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[primal zinc]

btw whispyr

[balmy condor]

Hard to believe how much things changed in 1 patch

[primal zinc]

since we need so much haste and we ger so much haste

why is better to use blidnside insteaf of EP

?

[balmy condor]

Cause we’re still slow xD

[primal zinc]

O.o

[balmy condor]

Sin is ~45apm with blindside

40 with ep

[primal zinc]

MOAR haste

[balmy condor]

Yep

[royal lantern]

Getting some haste doesnt turn sin from slow.too fast

10%haste is 1energy more per second

+slightly more from.bleeds

[primal zinc]

21 energy to be exact

per tick of garrote and rupture

so with 50%haste we can get 25 energy or half a mutilate

2 ticks 1 full mutilate

😄

[balmy condor]

It’s 7 per tick

[primal zinc]

oh sorry

misstyped

meant 28 not 21

in 2 ticks we laf a mutilate

half*

plus all the haste plus the extra 10% from vigour and 10% from rank 2 snd buff

(kappa its nurf 20% extra as was better)

[warm star]

Has anyone done some sims since the Pelagos nerf?

[balmy condor]

Yes, all the pins are updated

[warm star]

I'll go check that, thanks

[balmy condor]

Unless you mean today’s

In which case uhhhh

[warm star]

ok, NF > Kyrians in raid also

I have my answer

[balmy condor]

Me sleep it’s fuu’s problem Lul kek

[outer lodge]

Is there a clear cut winner for assassination covenant? I can't decide i'm too indecisive 😐

[balmy condor]

No

[primal zinc]

what are those weapon memories?

[gusty kestrel]

?

[proper sage]

not sure but I think @balmy condor can answer that question

[gusty kestrel]

venthyr forever

[radiant dove]

night fae has a slight lead over kyrian. but i think we will know at second week of expansion 😆 😆

[balmy condor]

It’s pretty much just first strike for nf

Covenants are within like 1%

[radiant dove]

will be so terrible if som1 choose kyrian or something else?

[balmy condor]

No

Because they’re within 1%

[proper sage]

wait venthyr aoe seems bad looking at the sims

am i looking at it wrong or

[balmy condor]

Yeah it is

[proper sage]

rip

[balmy condor]

Haste ability doesn’t scale great into aoe, and soulbind doesn’t really do it either

So it’s a bit of an F

[primal zinc]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[primal zinc]

is there any runecrafting command or sim i can study over?

[balmy condor]

Any what

[gusty kestrel]

runescape?

[balmy condor]

Minecraft?

[primal zinc]

https://www.wowhead.com/legendary-calc/rogue/assassination/AgAAAL4CoRo

lol

runecurving

xD

[verbal mantle]

[balmy condor]

Legendaries are in that sheet you linked

[primal zinc]

yes

thats waht im saying

[balmy condor]

It’s actually the first thing

[primal zinc]

as far as i understand is that we can have memory on a weapon

and a legendary slot on gear

so total 2 lege benifits

[balmy condor]

1

You have a legendary item

And that’s that

[primal zinc]

so the only place you can use dashing scroundel is on weapon?

[balmy condor]

Dashing scoundrel is either boots or cloak

There are no legendary effects you can craft on a weapon slot

[primal zinc]

ye ye my bad

sorry

so memory of dashing drops on raid

how about the zoldyck?

dungs?

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/legendary-recipes-drop-locations-sources-shadowlands-memory-of-the-runecarver

Wowhead is your friend

Use it

[primal zinc]

you are a better friend i use you ❤️

xD

so i guess legs is the best option for runecraving since they give more stats you want

right my dear friend @balmy condor ?

[balmy condor]

I don’t think it matters that much

[proper sage]

sims will most likely be done on that later on but yea it doesn't matter much

[plucky briar]

what if i want 3 recipes for different specs from torghast, can I get them all in one run?

or it depends on ur loot spec or however it works

[balmy condor]

Think it’s 1 per

Like you can’t just pull all the recipes out at once

[low girder]

IDK how the torghast drops work, if they're specific wings or something

Oh they are lol

[outer lodge]

covenant/legendary/conduit choice is starting to give me anxiety

[primal zinc]

those missives are inscriptions crafts or drops?

[balmy condor]

Inscription

[primal zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/6m-rain-wallstreet-make-it-rain-gif-8203989

[low girder]

I wouldn't worry that much. It's really not that hard to swap (minus leggos but you should prolly wait on pre-mythic tuning for those anyway)

[primal zinc]

well ye just worth noticing that inscriptors will be richer than alchemists

[high ingot]

are the current sims updated to reflect the dreamweaver field of blossom nerf?

[balmy condor]

The sims aren’t updated for today’s changes

[primal zinc]

but still field of blossoms is better

[low girder]

Was replying to riften my b

[balmy condor]

Fuu will get to simming when he wakes up probably

Just gotta wait a little :)

[royal lantern]

he is awake

just saying 😄

[balmy condor]

Well

Then where are my sims

[royal lantern]

fuu_irl

[primal zinc]

what was the old fields of blossoms

before todays nurf

[vestal wren]

i can compare values in the sheet from the old version vs. new

in a sec

[balmy condor]

It was 33% longer

[primal zinc]

so haste is the same?

[balmy condor]

Idk probably

It’s 2:30 am and I’m on my phone

Reading hard

[vestal wren]

you should go to bed

its 11:30 here^^

[balmy condor]

Yeah I tried an hour ago but gave up

It’ll happen when it happens

[primal zinc]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[primal zinc]

fuu can you pinn the updates plz?

[vestal wren]

will do later, atm simming still

[formal wolf]

are addons like weakauras (tracking skills, rotations etc.) necessary to maximize dps? do you all guys use them?

[dry atlas]

They help a lot, good for tracking dots and cds

[formal wolf]

yeah I get that, I also know that its possible to do the same dmg without them but

do rogues need these types of addons to be able to do top dps constantly

is it a standard to use them

[jaunty arrow]

Thats not true kinda

Wa just made your life ez

[hollow escarp]

a weak aura for pandemic on rupture/garrote is the only one that really comes to mind

but in time you already know when to reapply

[vestal wren]

are addons like weakauras (tracking skills, rotations etc.) necessary to maximize dps?
Weakauras can help you with visuals to compensate for tuff you easy miss or allow you to optimize your uptime. So there is no reason to not use it

[formal wolf]

I'm trying to optimize my dmg, but at the same time not sure if I should make myself dependent on an addon(s)

[jaunty arrow]

Its just halp u

[formal wolf]

if that addon breaks... I probably will have a very hard time 🙂

[jaunty arrow]

U need keep update thats all

Sometimes autors made changes atc.

[dry atlas]

Think of it as training wheels

[formal wolf]

can you play without it after?

[jaunty arrow]

Sure

[formal wolf]

did you guys try

right

[jaunty arrow]

But still u use wa for bosses atc

[formal wolf]

would you recommend any other addon than weak auras for tracking etc?

[jaunty arrow]

Nope wa is enought

[worn pebble]

Whats your guys thoughts on Hero rotation? should help newer players learn rotations a bit smoother?

[dry atlas]

Never heard of it

[jaunty arrow]

Dunno

@formal wolf u can use elvui class bars atc if u want

[worn pebble]

Only tried it briefly but it basically shows an icon for what spell you should cast next. The decisions for what to do is based on the same as simulations.

[formal wolf]

@jaunty arrow is it same as weak auras or adds something new?

[worn pebble]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/herorotation

[dry atlas]

I probably wouldn't like it and be better off learning myself

[formal wolf]

i know elvui but havent used class bars

[jaunty arrow]

Elvui is just overall ui addon

[formal wolf]

i disabled many components back when i used it

[jaunty arrow]

So u can use in unit frame bar thats tracking debuffs atc

But if u have wa u dont need it

[vestal wren]

not sure if I should make myself dependent on an addon(s)
idk if thats a good argument. There is no reaon to make your life harder just bc. you refuse to use a addon

[formal wolf]

i think I'm going to try wa

because I dont want to alter my action bars this time

last time I did elvui broke 😄

i didnt even remember my rotation

[jaunty arrow]

U need practice thats all

[dry atlas]

If you're using elvui for the first time it's best to copy someone else's profile

Bellular did a nice video on ui and weakauras yesterday actually so check that out

[jaunty arrow]

Depend on coz in the end u will need to learn with it

[dry atlas]

You can just copy paste import everything and see how you like it, set up and ready to go for you

[formal wolf]

I'll check the video now, thanks 🙂

[jaunty arrow]

Elvui is simple u will be ok

[formal wolf]

Thanks guys again 👍

[wind zenith]

dont fall for the memes -- just use bartender and move anything

elvui isnt scary it just makes the game look like eve

[jaunty arrow]

Bartender still exist?

[wind zenith]

helll yeah

[jaunty arrow]

I use that on wrath

Good times

[wind zenith]

yeah its up to like bartender 4 now

[jaunty arrow]

Also pitbull 😂

[wind zenith]

oh god i dont think pitbull is around

[jaunty arrow]

I also remember using xperl on tbc dark times

But with blizz ui u are good coz they made some progress

[wind zenith]

dude xperl was SICK back in the day

[jaunty arrow]

Was super sick

[wind zenith]

not so sick in hindsight

[jaunty arrow]

Circle agro on your avatar atc.

[wind zenith]

yeah

god i remember that stuff

xperl was the first one with animated profile picture too right

[jaunty arrow]

I guess yes

[wind zenith]

not that it was good

but little me was so stoked about it

[jaunty arrow]

For that time it was great

[vestal wren]

With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):

[sour fractal]

What’s the best YouTube guide for rogue assassination?

[vestal wren]

i don't know if there is a good/best guide

[dry atlas]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[left moth]

assa is still the weakest rouge spec going into shadowlands right?

[sour fractal]

Thanks

[hollow escarp]

why are the numbers so low compared to other classes?

[left moth]

yeah idk, assa is my favourite rouge spec but when its that far behind compared to sub and outlaw i rather not

fk outlaw tho

normie fake rogue spec

[floral surge]

🧂

[left moth]

😄

[vestal wren]

assassination was now the best spec for 2 entire xpacs, i agree that it is undertuned but it needs to be slightly undertuned to keep subtlety compatitive

with undertuned i mean worse in pure st

[hollow escarp]

I'm also thinking compared to other classes, I've read some sims at 7k for mages, I may be wrong so feel free to correct me

that's why I asked why are the differences so big

or maybe it's just a TC thing and I'm a dumbo

[left moth]

yeah true and i like that sub is the new ST Rogue now, but at the same time i rly dont like that outlaw is still the best spec to m+, that spec has been the best for way too long

[vestal wren]

i only compare within rogue

there is no reason to compare to other classes if the question is "what rogue spec should i play"

[hollow escarp]

agreed

[left moth]

well ranged will always be better in raids then melee

[vestal wren]

i mean if we go with current balance

there is no reason to ever play melee in any content outside of the melee giving the raid a certain buff

[left moth]

thats depressing lol

[vestal wren]

what means you bring: 1 dh, 1 enh shaman, 1 warrior (if warrior tank is not the go-to)

so 3/4 melee spots are filled already, good luck competing

a lot of guilds go ret as 4th melee

[left moth]

atleast rogue will always be good for m+ tho because of all the utility 🙂

just keep smiling 🙂

[vestal wren]

rogue atm looks to be only taken if you have a strong shroud skip

and just dropped for a ranged dps else

but i don't think we should focus to much on current balance issues as there are 2 1/2 weeks for balance changes

[left moth]

and thank god for that 😄

i believe

make melee strong again

😄

[hollow escarp]

there will always be a melee group so there are 5 slots for us in every raid group

[sour fractal]

I love how assassin feels over bm

I never would’ve thought I would ever play rogue xD

[crystal robin]

Anyone feels that Assa will be king again for st fights?

Sub seems op now, maybe nerfs will hit it and i was thinking to play assa

[wind zenith]

more likely ass wil lget a small buff

rogue isnt broken overall -- its more that all the meeles are kinda bad rn

[crystal robin]

yeah, probably will QQ in the raids, but i've been playing only rogue

so even if this will be weak af, will still play it :))

Unfortunately i don't have the luxury of time to play with two rogues to make a sub and assa

😄

[shut garnet]

why not just multispec on the same character

[hollow escarp]

was about to ask the same thing, so far the covenants seem very close for all specs

[crystal robin]

That will be the choice, play multispec and transition and tweak just one

I think the legendaries are more important than the covenants

[radiant dove]

i think i will play assa . i dont like the current playstyle of sub. law is an option too. and i also believe sub will get a slightly nerf sometime.

[formal wolf]

Do you guys change keybinds between PvE and PvP ?

[hollow escarp]

no, but I have dedicated keybinds for pvp abilities like smoke bomb

[formal wolf]

I guess would be better for muscle memory not to swap anything

[silent lintel]

Anyone has a quick rundown on how assa feels in SL pvp?

Or is it also go sub or get laughed at?

[low girder]

more of a #pvp thing

[silent lintel]

sub mains will laugh at me

[dry atlas]

Same as before but sub is stronger

[silent lintel]

there

[primal zinc]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[sour fractal]

so far the best rogue guides on youtube is dalaran gaming

[grim jay]

so far the best rogue guides on youtube is dalaran gaming
@sour fractal pog

[sour fractal]

yep

[dry atlas]

Isn't dalaran a meme just doing those duel videos

[sour fractal]

well yes

but he seems know what he's doing o the class

[grim jay]

if I were new to rogue I'd rather look at the written guides in here

than any of the current yt guides

[sour fractal]

ah

[iron nimbus]

I've intentionally not been following the SL stuff super closely as it all changes every 5 minutes. I'm curious what the vibe is for the vet rogues though, how is it feeling? Not really numbers, but general optimism/ pessimism. (If it matters I'm a AotC player, maybe CE at the every end of a tier if I have time (work, life, etc.))

[grim jay]

there are some good ones but the odds are that you end up on bad ones

and the info in the written guides usually always is right in here

[sour fractal]

thank you so much

[signal spire]

Is there a spreadsheet of todo list for Mythic raiders for the first few weeks?

[low girder]

more of a #wow-general thing but

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTuGw0mW-s2nKPaiunMQsAK2CiX8w0ULLCMD8-ymgpIfxQ5veiv-iwHZlcDF8oC4PwRulspZxO4Ndcd/pubhtml#

[tropic ocean]

and just dropped for a ranged dps else
@vestal wren x doubt

[vestal wren]

conetext?

[tropic ocean]

rogue wont be replaced in m+ and not by range especially

control is unmatchable

which is one of the things you need

[vestal wren]

you can just go mage + hunter + x (likely shadow priest)

[tropic ocean]

yeah gl with interrupts

and control

only range that could potentially replace rogue is shaman but then again

[vestal wren]

the main agrument for rogue is in my opinion shroud

[tropic ocean]

rogue just has too much control to drop

where did we need shroud in s4?

99% of skips were done with pillar

yet rogue top populated class

[vestal wren]

we did not need rogue

but how many rogues did you see in mdi

😛

or rather hunterdi

[tropic ocean]

but thats not a good comparison to make

when ppl that do +30 keys

do +19

they just faceroll the key

but how many top 100 or top 200 groups are there w/o rogue

(where u actually NEED to control) and not like in+19 where u dont care that u cant kick all casts

[vestal wren]

the top 10 or top 100 m+ keys is a even smaller player pool than mdi 😉

[tropic ocean]

yes still mdi is not a good example to tell that rogue will be replaced

because if a class is good or not for content x is measured by players that do that content and not by players that play keys 9 or 10 levels lower than what they usually do

or tl:dr in a +19 with players that just play 19s you will have a big fiesta when playing 3 ranges due to kicks and cc

[glass trench]

😄 the best race is really vulpera ?! 😄

[vestal wren]

people will orient themselfs on mdi

[tropic ocean]

how so?

[vestal wren]

even if its not a "good representation"

[tropic ocean]

where was the triple hunter teams outside mdi

hunter and mage were not getting populated because of their super good toolkit, but rather heavily overtuned dps output

unless they gut outlaw, rogue will be a very good class for m+

before they nerfed outlaw dmg rogue was so potent you played 3 rogues

if mage or hunter were more in line with dps output and not completely top on everything else in s4 u'd have range heal and double or triple rogue again just infinite control

without any need for shroud

think in all s4 keys the most times I used shroud was to bug last boss in sethrallis thats it

[fleet anchor]

Meta changes on live lag way behind MDI because people aren’t going to reroll on live servers as easily

People on live are rarely doing optimal things because optimal things aren’t required for most keys.

Even relatively high ones

Melee right now is extremely weak in SL but I’m sure plenty of groups will still run with Rogues who don’t reroll because they are experienced players, not because Rogue is particularly the best or anything.

Same reason Rogues get raid slots even though they really never justified it with performance most tiers in BfA. People play what they have.

Could have replaced every Rogue with a BM Hunter in Nyalotha and would have been better off for it technically speaking. But guilds still ran Rogues. 😛

[bleak sun]

Hello here im back on rogue after few year, should we use kriss on our rotation either raid /m+ ?

[tropic ocean]

@fleet anchor in raid yes, due to way less interrupt/control requirement

if player was equally good on every class you should've probably done nzoth with mages hunters and warlocks only

its not the same case in m+ though, else we would have seen double or triple range comps on high end, but we did not - neither rogue nor dh could compete to mage or hunter dps output

[fleet anchor]

I mean some groups were running full ranged in KSM this last weekend on beta so

I dunno

It’s different when ranged are largely the functionally uncapped AoE specs as well

Compared to live

[tropic ocean]

will see what first season brings but I highly doubt rogue will be not a top pick for high m+

just due to control and kick cd

triple hunter couldve been possible with st stun and 24s kick cd

[fleet anchor]

Ranged doing better damage than melee across the board then you add in higher AoE caps and it’s a little ridiculous tbh

[tropic ocean]

but when you switch in boomer or shadow u will lack kicks so much

which might not be a big issue in 15s or 19s or whatever but in higher keys u cant just not interrupt 2 or 3 casts

[fleet anchor]

If you can get away with mind soothe over shroud may as well just bring a Havoc over a Rogue for AoE stun and interrupts plus caster debuff 😦

[tropic ocean]

but havoc no dmg atm 😄

[fleet anchor]

I mean that’s really more meme than reality on beta 😛

DH damage isn’t that bad

Once you consider the debuff they are basically top DPS even in smaller caster groups lol

[marble hemlock]

gotta keep in mind, KSM/MDI =!= live highkey push

smaller pulls will make melee a bit more desirable

whether its due to requiring more interrupts until a pull is dead, or having smaller pulls that dont heavily favor uncapped aoe

[tropic ocean]

@fleet anchor currently I don't see the dps gap being that close that the 5% debuff recoups the loss from not having another hunter or mage

rogue wont be dps contender too, but just like in s4 most likely will carry the dps output of other classes

like you didnt take rogue for dps in s4 either

or dh

but rather to enable pulls

[fleet anchor]

Well my point was in the case of “if you need a melee”

[tropic ocean]

it doesnt matter if mage has uncapped aoe or can do 50k dps

when you cant control the pack

[fleet anchor]

More vs Rogue than other ranged

Melee in general is just shit atm

[marble hemlock]

also dont forget shroud 🙂

or ooc-ccs like sap/cage enabling skips

[fleet anchor]

Well I also mentioned if you can get away with soothe

[tropic ocean]

its worse than in bfa probably yeah

but the mechanics in the content are pretty much the same

[fleet anchor]

Which is true in a fair few routes

[marble hemlock]

it definitely seems to be a bit more akin to legion m+ again, where most groups would run 1 melee, rarely did you see 2

[tropic ocean]

what I saw from covenants this might open up some plays as well

[fleet anchor]

I mean frankly

[tropic ocean]

with skips like night fae interaction

[fleet anchor]

Blizzard just needs to straight buff melee

[tropic ocean]

or was it venthyr cant remember

[fleet anchor]

Almost across the board

[marble hemlock]

ye

[fleet anchor]

Every melee spec is trash atm lol

[marble hemlock]

its not really an issue of uncapped aoe vs capped aoe

[fleet anchor]

Other than DK

[marble hemlock]

when melee is much worse in st already

[fleet anchor]

And Assassination needs at minimum a 10% buff to be viable

[marble hemlock]

more like 15 😛

[fleet anchor]

Probably yes

[marble hemlock]

even on denathrius i simply dont see assa with blindside+zoldyck beating sub in execute

[fleet anchor]

But 10 would be a start haha

[marble hemlock]

:/

[fleet anchor]

We will see what they do in their pre Mythic hotfix

[tropic ocean]

dont mind a buff but dont really currently see a gigantic issue playing assassination as of now

will do so and will get ce with it

[fleet anchor]

I’ll hold judgement until then

[tropic ocean]

find it very theoretical so yeah sub is 15%? in front or what?

but the question for me is will I do 15% dps more on sub

personally

compared to a spec that I played for last 2 expansions

[marble hemlock]

assa on aoe plays very nice atm

heavy maintenance spec

maintaining ct, snd, ruptures and ideally envenom at all times

is a lot of stuff to do

and feels much better than the mindless fok spam we had in legion and bfa

[tropic ocean]

but then also its always super black and super white in here

I can see the reasoning for ppl competing at very high lvl but outside that it wont really affect me or many other players

and doesn't make my spec unviable

[marble hemlock]

with the numbers as they are right now? it does

you know me, im a big assa fan. but i consider the spec unplayable from a tuning PoV atm

[tropic ocean]

unplayable for what?

achieving ce?

doing keys > weekly?

doubt

[marble hemlock]

it plays nicely, has heavier emphasis on shiv burst windows thanks to WPS being the best conduit, and no more fok spam for aoe

being 20% worse than other rogue specs

is massive

[tropic ocean]

it is

but the question is, is it still enough to do what you want to do

which I think it is

[marble hemlock]

and you still need to make conscious choices between aoe and st, which other specs dont have to

[tropic ocean]

so i'll stick with it

[marble hemlock]

you sacrifice much more when going for aoe than other classes

i mean sure, but when we look at comparisons of specs, we generally dont consider "is it viable in lfr" to be the meaningful question to be answered

but "how does it compare at the toplevel"

and it just doesnt compare, its in a different league entirely

[tropic ocean]

ofc but that doesn't affect me

and doesn't affect probably 90% of ce raiders

[marble hemlock]

whether or not it affects you, doesnt make it any less true for anyone whos looking for information on how good or bad a spec is

assa is inarguably terrible from a tuning standpoint

whether that matters to you specifically or not is up to you, but its terrible.

[tropic ocean]

im not arguing against it cuz numbers dont lie

just cant follow the recommendations that often are given

like non playable

which is wrong, as it was wrong with sub

[marble hemlock]

the recommendation is to not play assa

becuase sub and outlaw perform much better dps-wise in any content.

MUCH better

[tropic ocean]

but the recommendation rather should be, its possible to clear all content with it but its worse than spec x or y by amount z

and not "its non playable" play sub or outlaw

🤷

[marble hemlock]

its possible to make a million dollars in the stock market. its just easier if youre already a millionaire.

[tropic ocean]

cuz by that logic should not have played anything outside mage warlock hunter for last raid

[marble hemlock]

people dont come to discords or guides for information on "what is possible"

if you have someone boost you, everythings "possible"

[balmy condor]

To be fair, I try my best to tell people that they don’t need to be uber bis op for their aotc guild

[marble hemlock]

but you will be holding your guild back if you choose to play assassination instead of sub

[balmy condor]

But people even in that situation try to be optimal

And that’s perfectly fine

[marble hemlock]

because even if you sucked at sub, youd still do more dmg than an assa rogue that pulls 98 percentile logs

[tropic ocean]

thats where I dont 100% agree

holding back yes

[unkempt stump]

I expect blizz to add 5% to assassination

[marble hemlock]

id agree with you if the difference wasnt this massive

[tropic ocean]

but only if you'd do more dps on sub

which is a person to person case

[unkempt stump]

The question is when...

[tropic ocean]

maybe not on cutting edge level, cuz everyone should be able to do so

[marble hemlock]

its not like you need a masters degree to play sub at high efficiency. sub isnt nearly as hard anymore

[tropic ocean]

but then again, question should be if everyone does my dps will we kill boss yes/no as this is the definition of being boosted

[marble hemlock]

and also happens to play very smilar to assa

[balmy condor]

Playing the best that you can, even in lower content, is a staple of personal pride and self worth, and it’s perfectly normal for a person to want to optimize, even for normal raids. So if sub is that far ahead, I suggest they play sub

That doesn’t mean they can’t do normal as sin

[marble hemlock]

if everyone did assa dps, the boss would take twice as long to kill

[tropic ocean]

well might be true for you, switching to sub after so much time I basically hard inted my raid

[balmy condor]

It just means they probably shouldn’t

[tropic ocean]

which most likely will change in sl

[marble hemlock]

would the boss die faster/be easier if you did more dps? yes.
is the difference between an optimally played assa and a suboptimally played sub still meaningful? yes
are you inting your raid if youre choosing to play assa despite knowing that sub is MASSIVELY better? yes

im sorry to say

[tropic ocean]

well

[marble hemlock]

but 20% difference cant be made up by "id suck at sub"

[tropic ocean]

🙂

[marble hemlock]

how about you get better at sub then?

[tropic ocean]

maybe

[marble hemlock]

instead of playing a massively inferior spec

[tropic ocean]

like playing what you enjoy in a game that you spend your free time in?

[marble hemlock]

well then whats it gonna be. do you just play for fun, or do you raid in a group of people that have ambitions and goals?

[tropic ocean]

one doesn't contradict the other

[marble hemlock]

you cant excuse your performance with the first option, but then still be a part of the second. doing so is by definition you holding the grp back

yes it does

if you decide its more fun to play in first person in a raid and you die to every voidzone

youre inting the raid

no ones saying theyre mutually exclusive. but when you cite "this is more fun" as a reason you do something suboptimally, and doing something in an optimal fashion is the goal of the group-effort you wanna be a part of, then they are exclusive.

[tropic ocean]

I rather see it to what extent

[jovial haven]

No rupture sub is still like 10% better than sin, so you can even make it easier and still win

[balmy condor]

It’s more than 10%

[marble hemlock]

can we not

[tropic ocean]

from my pov theres no difference between not playing the spec you enjoy to not playing the class to enjoy

[marble hemlock]

have the stupid no-rupture sub discussion again pls

[jovial haven]

I’m not recommending it

[marble hemlock]

there is from a gear perspective

you cant compare switching classes to switching specs

[tropic ocean]

and will see how it goes for sl so far I had no issues by not playing the best spec

[jovial haven]

I’m just saying you can pull a key ability from sub and still out dps sin currently

[tropic ocean]

both in m+ and raid

[marble hemlock]

assa isnt nearly as far behind in prepatch

than it is in SL

keep that in mind

prepatch the specs are still very close. in SL they arent

and thats been my point the entire time. i wouldnt argue with you if the difference was like 5%, or even 10%

[tropic ocean]

I don't argue with you on how good or bad the specs are compared to each other

but on how the recommendations here work

[marble hemlock]

recommendations work based on the information people come here for

[tropic ocean]

it was similar to sub vs assassination in bfa before prepatch just straight up recommending sub is bad not playable

[balmy condor]

Who is saying that

[tropic ocean]

while there was sub rogues clearing the content in top guilds performing by miles better than any of the ppl recommending that sub is non playable

[marble hemlock]

yes. assa is bad. its not unplayable. dont think anyones ever said that. we just say that if you decide to play assa, you better decide on the nice comfy blanket youll be wrapping around your legs so your feet wont get cold as youre sitting on the bench

[gusty kestrel]

so ur point is that instead of "assa isnt playable" it should be "assa is a lot worse"? xd

[tropic ocean]

(and yes ofc sin was just straight up better)

[marble hemlock]

people here talk from a PoV that looks at competitive content

being "very very bad" can be equated to being unplayable

especially when there is much better choices within the same class

[balmy condor]

If you want to police all the channels for people saying “sin isn’t playable” ausrr be my guest

[tropic ocean]

I gave up long ago

[balmy condor]

Wonder why

[marble hemlock]

people dont come to RH to find out about what class is functional

[gusty kestrel]

maybe we should also just dont suggest any covenants

play what looks the coolest

[marble hemlock]

they come here for information on what to play so they can support their raidgrp or mythic+ groups goals

[dense cedar]

Sin is unplayable

My dual axes won't let me mutilate

[gusty kestrel]

would be bad saying one covenant is unplayable

[dense cedar]

bad spec

:(

[jovial haven]

If you (and your group) are good enough, any spec can get CE. Doesn’t mean it should be recommended

[balmy condor]

@gusty kestrel my transmog makes my logs look beefier cause the rest of my raid is too busy staring at me to dps

[marble hemlock]

youre just projecting your view of the game onto the entirety of people giving advice and seeking advice. ever considered that youre the exception, not the rule?

[gusty kestrel]

@balmy condor

[tropic ocean]

@marble hemlock maybe but some statements are often not true 🙂

[bright lintel]

don't mind me

[marble hemlock]

what does that even mean tho?

if you wanna argue semantics, im sure theres discords that do that

[tropic ocean]

what was the best spec for nzoth in nyalotha? numerically?

[marble hemlock]

assa

[marble hemlock]

due to the way CDs lined up in p2/p3, the only difficult phase

and the damage profile required by a melee dps on that boss

[balmy condor]

I feel the hook in the water

[marble hemlock]

im not sure i get your point, in any case

[gusty kestrel]

sub was best!!!

[marble hemlock]

whether or not a class is literally mechanically functionally unplayable or not, doesnt matter when the goal of people coming here for information is to learn about what spec is most likely to help their raidgrp kill a boss.

with current tuning, that answer will never be assa.

which, for the defined goal of any competitive or progress-oriented pve player, means it is not playable.

[bright lintel]

@marble hemlock maybe but some statements are often not true 🙂
@tropic ocean you can always add context to a statement and the result of it being true or false could change with each additional context given

[marble hemlock]

if there is never a reason to play assa on any boss at any point in nathria, why would anyone include it in recommendations on what to play?

[tropic ocean]

not in recommendations, but the auto conclusion is not to just dismiss the spec

especially when ppl come in here asking if hero rotation is recommended

so would you recommend him to play sub?

[marble hemlock]

why would we not dismiss assa as a viable spec for people who are intersted in progessing a boss?

[tropic ocean]

for them yes

[marble hemlock]

what reason is there to include it

[tropic ocean]

generally, no

[marble hemlock]

other than "it exists"

[fleet anchor]

Assassination is the Sub of Shadowlands. Buckle in. 🤣

[marble hemlock]

but people come here specifically asking for advice on how to progress in the game?

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor it’s bumpy already

[fleet anchor]

I do hope we see some tuning passes in a few weeks

Crossing fingers

[tropic ocean]

@fleet anchor not yet

there is still hope

[marble hemlock]

like, i dont get your argument ausrr. what specifically do you take offense to? that when someone asks "what spec should i play" that no one ever says assa? cause mentioning assa in response to that question would just be wrong

[tropic ocean]

no but, as example again, is the correct answer for a player asking if he can play assassination for content x no play sub

[marble hemlock]

theres no reason to mention assa except for its potential execute dmg, in current discussions about the viability of a spec for progression purposes in either mythic+ or raid content

[tropic ocean]

when its a player asking if hero rotation is recommended?

[balmy condor]

No one says that

[gusty kestrel]

whats hero rotation

is that hekili

[balmy condor]

I literally live in this channel

[tropic ocean]

im not really active in rh disc anymore, cuz everytime I tab in I read some things where I just tab back out

[balmy condor]

And I have not seen anyone say that

[marble hemlock]

its not like people who come in this channel get sent away. we still give information. we still write guides and sim everything as much as we do for other specs. we still provide all the information someone who is dead-set on playing assa needs to perform well with it

but we also straightup tell them that they are likely better off looking at the other specs due to the massive rift in performance

i love assa. id love to play it. id play it in m+ if it wasnt so dogshit compared to outlaw/sub. id play it in raids whenever id be able to make use of blindside+zoldyck. but i cant.

thats just a fact.

i cant deny reality.

even if its within a virtual frame of a videogame

[balmy condor]

seli noooooo

[distant lava]

when seli's not playing assa you know shit hit the fan

[obtuse anvil]

what seli is trying to say is that it's time to leave behind childish dreams

and go be a man

go play outlaw

[balmy condor]

Bruder

[marble hemlock]

you almost had it

but you fucked the landing there vlos

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[dense cedar]

I honestly thought they'd replace the FoK talent with Echoing Blades

[marble hemlock]

god no

please dont

no more fok spam for aoe

just give us meaningful dot-damage on rupture/garrote

[dense cedar]

@marble hemlock I still think it'd be more likely than any other AoE buffing change that Blizz would do

[fleet anchor]

@gusty kestrel

whats hero rotation
is that hekili
Kinda. But maintained by Mystler and myself. So the Rogue module is very customized and a lot better than the average auto-APL thing.

[gusty kestrel]

so what ure saying is

autoattakk has hope?

[marble hemlock]

well yeah, its most likely cause its the simplest fix

[gusty kestrel]

with hero rotation

[fleet anchor]

HeroRotation is good for Rogue yes

[marble hemlock]

its not the fix the spec needs, but we already saw how they fucked up in BfA when it came to assa aoe

[fleet anchor]

I mean you still want to learn how to play but overall it's quite solid

[balmy condor]

Koji tooting his own Tauren horn

[fleet anchor]

I mean

[obtuse anvil]

I thought we had a rule against promotion

[drifting cloud]

koji is a tauren rogue? how do I do that

[fleet anchor]

I do have pink all-star ranks using HeroRotation so... 🤣

I'd say it's ok

[tropic ocean]

@fleet anchor when I started wow I used rotation addon as well

good enough for 9/11m antorus

[vestal wren]

iirc mystler had quite good success with outlaw in m+ using hero rotation as guideline

[balmy condor]

You started in antorus?

[tropic ocean]

no

I started in vanila until aq 40

then didnt play until antorus

y

[fleet anchor]

Frankly

[dense cedar]

i can't imagine Sin needing a rotation helper

[fleet anchor]

If I had to choose between HeroRotation

or the mess of 23498986 WAs most people use instead

I would go HeroRotation

😛

[balmy condor]

Wow koji that one hurt

Ngl

[marble hemlock]

@civic palm koji hates you

[tidal gorge]

I'm so sad for the current state of sin. 😦 Seems like I'm going to be learning sub unless there's a balance pass

[balmy condor]

I’ve heard it’s unplayable

[halcyon oak]

I'm just gonna be playing sin regardless

[dense cedar]

Sub is fun

Give it a try

[halcyon oak]

Spec is too fun

[marble hemlock]

sub is very similar in playstyle to assa actually

symbols+dance burst is very reminiscent of setting up toxic blade burst

the maintenance with snd+rupture also shouldnt come as a shocker

[undone pasture]

sub didnt change much from bfa but its tuned fine, suddenly its a fun spec

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’s just faster honestly

[marble hemlock]

its just a bit more fast paced with less room for error if you afk too long due to not running vigor and having better energy/cp gen

[balmy condor]

It’s still a rogue as a core

[dense cedar]

SD change is pretty huge tbh

[fleet anchor]

I don't have anything against WAs but a lot of people just try to recreate all the APL rules in WAs anyway, which ends up being the same thing. Except WA performance is balls and ends up tanking FPS. 😦

[tidal gorge]

I liked the slight forgivability on dots because I sometimes get latency spikes and cringe at the thought of that during an important GCD-based burst window

[halcyon oak]

Outlaw feels like a different class lol

[marble hemlock]

sub isnt nearly as bad for that naymore tho

like, when dance was still 5sec duration and you desperately wanted to maximize the overlap between symbols+dance, that was very unforgiving to fuck up

but now that dance is baseline 8sec, even if you mismanage your CDs, you dont lose as much dps by not having all 10sec of symbols overlap with dance

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor I have you know I only lose 2 fps :->

[tidal gorge]

Ya, legion sub was painful if you pushed the wrong buttons with your fat fingers. 😄 I guess I just need to re-learn the new stuff then

[marble hemlock]

rupture is easier to maintain than nightblade since its longer duration as well

[fleet anchor]

Yeah Nightblade sucked

[sonic yacht]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[fleet anchor]

Other thing is Black Powder has given Sub a totally different feel in AoE than it had before

[dense cedar]

I wish they kept the visuals of Nightblade tho

[marble hemlock]

yeah

actually having an aoe finisher

[fleet anchor]

On prepatch it's still mostly the same but in SL it's quite different

[dense cedar]

Even if it would just be rupture reskinned

[marble hemlock]

makes the spec feel nice

who woulda thought

[balmy condor]

Idk what an aoe finisher is

[dense cedar]

CT

[fleet anchor]

But yeah I like all 3 Rogue specs rotationally right now to be totally honest

Rogue is in a good spot

But Assassination numbers need to come up

[balmy condor]

CT is single target have you learned nothing from 8.3

[dense cedar]

😟

[balmy condor]

You fool

[marble hemlock]

assa is gonna feel much more meaningful with WPS and not being as frontloaded into vendetta burst as it was in BfA, and no more fok spam on aoe either

its a massive improvement imo

[dense cedar]

I miss Nighthold Sin

[marble hemlock]

just you know

[tidal gorge]

Is there a good place to see the overall comparisons between all 3 specs right now? I see the legendary sims in the pins, but does that include everything?

[marble hemlock]

give rupture/garrote some love please ><

[balmy condor]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

You can compare there

[marble hemlock]

why is multidotting for assa just more energy, and barely more damage

[balmy condor]

Any comparison your heart desires

[marble hemlock]

make rupture great again

[tidal gorge]

Dankeschön

[dense cedar]

#BringBackAP

The worst talent in history

[marble hemlock]

not even close to the worst

[balmy condor]

Gerne freund

[marble hemlock]

remember wotlk release hunger for blood?

now THAT was a trash talent

or

first beta version of shadowblades talent for combat

that was an actual dps loss

to talent

despite it being the finisher for the tree

[dense cedar]

@marble hemlock Gotta call it worst so they trick themselves into bringing it back

[marble hemlock]

cause it made your abilities deal shadowdmg, but since you didnt have spell-pen, it was less dmg than just having them be physical :^)

[primal zinc]

guys i need your opinions

whats best?

necrolord emeni or night fae dreamweaver?

[vestal wren]

did you check the pins

there is a early and max renown graph

should help with a decision

[primal zinc]

what would you choose?

[wind zenith]

im still waiting for them to sneak in a slight aura buff to sin 🙂

[vestal wren]

me too

[wind zenith]

fuu you going sub? or what are you leaning towards

im having a hard time picking which one i enjoy the most

lol

[vestal wren]

subtlety ofc

but outlaw does look suprisingly good too

[wind zenith]

yeah thats what i figured youd say

haha

do you know which leggo your going on sub?

*pending changes

[vestal wren]

ill probably wait and see

not sure yet

[wind zenith]

yeah fair fair fair

[grizzled jay]

fuu is going Finality

[vestal wren]

with the soul ash changes probably a good idea

[frigid kestrel]

Stupid question incoming

How do we farm for Zoldyck?

I havent taken the time to dive into farming legos since beta just hands them out like candy

[balmy condor]

There’s a wowhead article on drop locations for the recipes

[frigid kestrel]

thansk

also thanks

[balmy condor]

No problemo

[primal zinc]

my friend whispyr

❤️

can i ask you a question my dear friend???

[balmy condor]

If it’s sin related and I’m able to answer then I will answer

[primal zinc]

😛

its not sin related

[balmy condor]

Unfortunate

[primal zinc]

its general rogue related

[balmy condor]

Humor me

[primal zinc]

its about somnambulist

night fae dreamweaver

[balmy condor]

It’s about what the fuck now

[primal zinc]

can i cheese the 20% for 30 min if i get summon to a raid/m+?

20% ms

[balmy condor]

Probably resets once you enter instanced content like most other effects

If it did, they’d probably hotfix it out

Cause that’s definitely not intended

[regal fox]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[flat plinth]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[balmy condor]

Undesirable huh

That’s putting it lightly

[grizzled jay]

Moroes is secretly a pro-Hemo Rogue

[tidal gorge]

Wait, how is that even something you need a bot for? 😂

"If you even have to ask this question, you don't belong here. BEGONE! To the realm of Beast Mastery hunters with ye!"

[balmy condor]

There’s an !oh command for every channel

Outlaw can use dagger off hands for example

[frigid kestrel]

Ok I need a list of all the commands post haste

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[grizzled jay]

the Outlaw !oh command is outdated

because Dagger in the OH is actually a dps increase now

[vestal wren]

it always was

but it was rly close

also you had a lot of effects on 1h that would benefit from using it instead of a dagger (e.g. slappers)

[grizzled jay]

yah but now with poisons dagger is strictly a dps increase for Outlaw unless a 1h like slapper / tusks exists

[echo gust]

so now we cant craft legendaries on week 2 at all?

[grizzled jay]

With the information we have, no. But they could make non-beta changes that result in us being able to.

You'll have to wait until the first level 60 goes and looks.

[hollow hawk]

Haven't been paying too much attention to sin is it still in a bad spot right now

[balmy condor]

Yes

[hollow hawk]

[jovial haven]

Depends how gated the torghast quests are: 1000 ash there

[dim mirage]

hoping for assassination buffs like: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/D671xKoUIAESma6.jpg

[strange python]

the oh! command is outdated because it should just say "Nadox"

[delicate trench]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[civic palm]

@marble hemlock That speaks more of him than me > _>

[tardy fjord]

does crimson tempest being uncapped make assassin viable for m+ at higher levels?

[balmy condor]

probably not

but its capped at 8

so unfortunate life

[rain peak]

Hello, sorry for the inconvenience, someone knows Spanish

[balmy condor]

if you kinda shimmy you can get the dot to move around to more

but its not really that great

[rain peak]

!spec

[prisma monolith]

All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#class=Rogue
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-bfa-4/world/rogue/all

[balmy condor]

@rain peak if you interested in shadowlands comparisons, should use this instead atm

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[strange python]

Whispyr you run suberfuge right?

[balmy condor]

depends on what where

but yes

[outer lodge]

If i'm looking at the spreadsheet right, strictly speaking for assassination -Zoldyck legendary seems best to grab first? It's parsing highest for 1/2/3/5 targets and dungeon slice?

[balmy condor]

yes

[rain peak]

@balmy condor Thanks

[balmy condor]

no problem

[fleet whale]

so what if in the ultimate troll move

when you make Zoldyck, you actually make the original legion version of Sephuz

[balmy condor]

[soft belfry]

prob. stupid question but necro bonespike, does it a cap on how many can be applied to say a raid boss?

[surreal solar]

you only get 1 debuff per mob, you can spike the same target over and over as long as you have charges though

[soft belfry]

and by debuff you mean the bleed right? i figured as much other wise it would scale outta control

[balmy condor]

Yeah, 1 application per target

Reapplying is just instant damage