sub raid outlaw m+ atm
#assassination
balmy condor
sin m+ is pretty sketch without azerite
but the raiding could be good
depending on how final tuning ends up
atm just too weak compared to sub
wind totem
how far behind are the other specs for raiding compared to sub?
balmy condor
no problemo
upper frigate
sup is the king
frail fossil
upper frigate
soup*
balmy condor
Outlaw m+ meta and sub/sin basically changed places in raids compared to 8.2/8.3
tropic ocean
silent lintel
is it over for us assasinbros
grim jay
silent lintel
Sub just ain't fun to play to me
vestal wren
outlaw?
silent lintel
It not too bad, but still gives me less dopamine than assa
My fallback choice if assa gets totally neutered
prisma yoke
i played sub in Legion ToS but somehow i have difficulties to learn pre-patch sub 
peak jungle
Weekly check in number 3 - any word on assassination buffs?
fleet whale
it's sad that my 105 Demon Hunter when he selects insatiable hunger
that his demon's bite almost does as much damage as my main rogue's mutilate
buff mutilate
round kayak
Buff poisons and bleeds imo
fleet whale
or, nerf mutilate's energy cost
a 50 energy ability should not do such low damage
i would prefer the former solution though since i don't want sin to turn into a spammy spec
willow vine
Are any of the covenants straight up shit? I wanna pick the best looking one but also don't want one that sucks LMAO
willow vine
Yay thanks
willow vine
It's okay I love all three
balmy condor
So @peak jungle come back next week friend nice seeing you again :P
drifting cosmos
Hows that 150% Shiv dmg buff do to us? We still bad?
drifting cosmos
fleet whale
shiv relatively speaking is still a weaker initial hit compared to TB
nimble garnet
@balmy condor dont lie whysp! watchu playing ;3
nimble garnet
on assa?
fleet whale
aesthetically i really want to go Venthyr
fleet whale
i guess at the very start it doesn't matter much which one i pick
so i might just go venthyr first for it's story
fleet whale
door of shadows is quite nice, but i think the kyrian potion is a bit better
low girder
night fae gang gang
marble hemlock
someone remember who said "nightfae is bae" like 6months ago?
no one believed me :<
low girder
i've been pushing for it forever
fleet whale
night fae is cool but i really like the red and black aesthetic of the venthyr
strange python
@marble hemlock nightfae was always bae, it got the zoomzoom
halcyon oak
Shadowlands is next week and I still haven't picked a covvie lol. I'll probably try them all out and just see which one feels best to me
balmy condor
Good way to go about it imo
fleet whale
you also get to try all of them while leveling
steel ridge
The real difficulty is choosing a cov for 4 different characters without having one twice
toxic bay
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
steep ridge
The real difficulty is choosing a cov for 4 different characters without having one twice
@steel ridge Don't choose the covenant, choose the the class fitting the covenant
steel ridge
Rogue, Brewmaster Monk, Shaman, Warlock
its hard to make it "fitting" for me, so far i am looking at NF-Rogue, Necro-Monk, Venthyr-Shaman and Kyrian-Warlock. But i want the Daggercloak soooo bad for my Rogue.
so its a real pain in the ass
eternal seal
so what is the best coven for rogue assa in your opinion?
balmy condor
They’re all close dps wise
Venthyr is a little behind in m+
But aside from that I think it’s hard to argue that there’s a “best”
balmy condor
Night fae is strong atm yeh
strange python
Lorewise necro would fit perfect for undead rogue but it seems to be weaker
proper sage
@balmy condor is there anything ur hoping for except for aura buffs at this point for heroic tuning
strange python
Also the movementspeed is better than this shield in my opinion
balmy condor
I mean there’s a lot I hope for
proper sage
ye but realistically
balmy condor
But realistically an aura buff would be all I want
balmy condor
A baseline buff to rupture/garrote and fok damage would be pretty lit
But I’m not holding out on it
proper sage
interesting
balmy condor
Would help with the m+ borrowed power problem imo
Without really affecting raiding too much
You buff garrote and rupture, which don’t do a lot of damage single target really
Multidot and subt scaling makes it sort of shrouded suff or whatever
Rupture buff adds some extra multi-dot potential
Fok for our eb loss
Would probably be okay
Only issues that would arise are 1. Subterfuge would probably be nuts single target, and 2. Nightstalker might be viable with rupture snapshotting
And nightstalker viability is unacceptable
(All my opinion btw I’m not a balance god or anything)
fleet whale
idk why nightstalker being good would be a bad thing
outer lotus
@balmy condor how far behind sub is sin?
proper sage
it's behind outlaw vaughn
balmy condor
~15% behind sub, say no more, in my kitchen right now finding a butter knife
proper sage
u troll 
fleet whale
i would rather see blizz buff mut and envenom personally
having a 50 energy ability barely do more damage than a demon's bite is just sad
low girder
Yeah having mut not hit like a wet noodle would be nice
fleet whale
i remember wotlk mutilate hitting really hard
and drowning people in poisons
hunger for blood was a crap ability though
lapis dragon
@fleet whale well hunger for blood was also multytarget friendly compared to Vendetta 🙂
fleet whale
yeah but it's function was really dumb
lapis dragon
Pure dmg boost is dumb?
fleet whale
you could use it with any type of bleed, it didn't have to be your own
so it really dumbed down the rotation, and hunger for blood in itself was not that interesting
fleet whale
it wasn't but i appreciated mutilate at least doing some damage
lapis dragon
only mutilates and envenoms...
outer lotus
no some used only 1 button
fleet whale
in fact wotlk feral may have been one of the hardest specs ever in wow
lapis dragon
hunter had "one-button-macro" xD
outer lotus
wasnt there also a period where the optimal rota for warlock was to just use shadowbolt every global?
lapis dragon
mm hunter
outer lotus
same thing 
fleet whale
wotlk was the beginning of most classes getting rotations
and cata made some of them pretty complex
fleet whale
cata demo lock was pretty much a piano spec
royal lantern
using only 1 ability and maintance 1 buff was peak gameplay
fleet whale
back then people called assassination rogues "mut" rogues
lapis dragon
back then ppl played full agility retri pala
royal lantern
tbh,if possible, everyone used agility for that sweet crit
tropic ocean
about time they nerfed ashvane
and coral outsims vita for me too
@tropic ocean noiceee
time to free up the inventory
strange python
@tropic ocean noiceee
@tropic ocean
Next week is sl release, so its pointless, they online nerfed it, cuz u wouldnt change the items until sl endgame
tropic ocean
nevertheless its great
wind zenith
does sin feel kinda energy starved>
tropic ocean
currently more than what we were used to at the mid/end of nyalotha
but not as much as in uldir/bod
shut garnet
EP sin ?
tropic ocean
probably yeah
and should get better the deeper into shadowlands we go
or maybe better is the wrong turn, faster, to each his own prefered playstyle
sick scarab
agree.. more we go deep in exapsion less energy starving we should be
so.. be patient and belive in the assassination life 🙂
at least i am a beliver so 🙂
royal lantern
assassination with the current desing is supposed too be "energy starved"
just saying
wind zenith
sure im fine with that -- its just odd to be starved and not have the window to make up for it
im saying this as someone that genuinely enjoys sin
royal lantern
well, you are supposed too just keep everything up until a tb/shiv window, and funnel your energy into that
eternal mirage
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
amber quail
crude citrus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
marble hemlock
There is no best covenant
primal zinc
well best for dps
marble hemlock
There is no best covenant for dps
Covenants and the associated sub systems like soulbinds are tuned tight enough that no one covenant is better than all the others
long portal
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
long portal
Read that^
marble hemlock
Whichever covenant you pick will be viable
plain thistle
vulpera, night fae with butterfly transmog, anything else is wrong
primal zinc
night fae is the venthyr spell name?
spring musk
?
plain thistle
night fae is sepsis
spring musk
Night fae is one covenant, venthyr is another
plain thistle
venthyr is flagellation
plain thistle
yeah, thats flagellation
plain thistle
primal zinc
oh
so sepsis works best for raids or m+ i guess
vanish>garrote.....night elf racial+garrote.....sepsis+garrote
during fights
primal zinc
yes but you can use garrote from stealth
plain thistle
"free"
primal zinc
inc dmg
plain thistle
garrote doesnt need stealth
marble hemlock
I'll say it again. All covenants are viable for raid, with differences being incredibly minor, as in 2-3% at most based on the type of the encounter
Where one covenant might be better on boss#3 and then another covenant is better on boss#4
primal zinc
yes i know but it does more dmg from stealth
dry atlas
marble hemlock
Sepsis doesn't give stealth.
primal zinc
oh
marble hemlock
Garrote also doesnt deal extra dmg when cast from stealth, unless you have a talent that does that.
The only baseline stealth-effect it has, is that it silences for 3seconds when cast from stealth
primal zinc
ye i mean stealth ability (ambush cheap shot)
marble hemlock
yeah
or sap, for that matter
essentially what it does, is it switches you to a shadow-dance hotkey bar for 5sec or until you use one stealth-only ability
edgy ginkgo
hey guys, i'm an assa lover.... is it really that bad in shadowlands or can i go with it?
marble hemlock
assa is incredibly undertuned on beta right now. you can play it, but both other specs will be significantly better in all types of content except maybe pvp
but for pve, assa is borderline unplayable in terms of raw dps
~15-20% worse than sub in pure singletarget, and about the same difference if not more in aoe compared to outlaw
edgy ginkgo
i mean, outlaw is ok.. but i really dont like sub ::D
edgy ginkgo
yeah i've tested it in prepatch, its ok... but i played assa for so long:> maybe i have to give it a chance
marble hemlock
rumours have it that theres one more massive soulbind tuning pass coming today or tomorrow, and you can expect atleast one more class-tuning patch before mythic week starts
edgy ginkgo
yeah, we will see.. i'm just asking cause i want to know which covenant i should choose before i'm starting 🙂
marble hemlock
you cant go wrong with any of the choices
covenants have been tuned very well for rogue, we're one of the few classes where all covenants are viable picks with slight difference in their damage profiles
with some being marginally better for pure st, others having slightly better cleave, prio or aoe capabilities, but never to the point where one becomes "the best"
its all very situational
edgy ginkgo
ok thats cool
so if i'm playing a lot m+ and 2 days mnythic raids with a guild which have done 10/12 in NYA i should choose a covenant which is slightly better in aoe situations i guess 😄
primal zinc
about talents on the sheet...no 3 is blindside?
marble hemlock
the number system always goes from left to right, yes. so if the first number is a 3, then you pick the third talent from the left in the first talent tier
which would be blindside
primal zinc
ty
marble hemlock
so if i'm playing a lot m+ and 2 days mnythic raids with a guild which have done 10/12 in NYA i should choose a covenant which is slightly better in aoe situations i guess 😄
@edgy ginkgo well, thats your choice, really. if you identify a particular type of damage or encounter type you wanna excel at, its much easier to find a covenant that suits that specific niche
edgy ginkgo
ok. is outlaw a thing in ST? slightly worse than sub or significantly?
marble hemlock
slightly
edgy ginkgo
so its the allaround specc?
marble hemlock
enough to matter, but not enough for it to be useless since theres a lot of fights that have adds
its hard to say, with how many different encounter types there are etc.
assa might still be the go-to play for the final boss for example, since theres a pretty significant execute phase
so running execute leggo might be the play with blindside
edgy ginkgo
sounds good.. i keep it as i ever kept it... try to fill gearsets for every specc and switching situational
marble hemlock
i think ultimately you wanna try and get rid of the single-spec mentality that blizzard has been driving for the last 2 expansions
yeah exactly as you just said
it fairly simple to swap specs
if you wanna multispec a lot, venthyr or nightfae might be better picks due to them having more than 1 usable soulbind
edgy ginkgo
for rogues with the good covenant balancing, yeah really
marble hemlock
whereas for kyrian or necro youre kinda stuck with a single one, so switching conduits which has a CD is gonna be more bothersome
edgy ginkgo
if you wanna multispec a lot, venthyr or nightfae might be better picks due to them having more than 1 usable soulbind
@marble hemlock yeah, thats a point
marble hemlock
whereas for nightfae for example, you can just put your sub stuff into niya, the outlaw stuff into dreamweaver and then just swap soulbinds, without having to swap conduits
edgy ginkgo
and i really am multispeccing a lot
marble hemlock
(unless they changed how conduits worked across soulbinds)
been a while since i could log into beta
primal zinc
how many leges can we equip?
edgy ginkgo
i never logged in to beta cause i dont want to spoiler myself 😄
marble hemlock
1
primal zinc
what about in the expansion
can we get 2?
just like later in legion?
from research
?
marble hemlock
theres no indication that we will ever be able to use more than 1 legendary at this point
halcyon oak
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
edgy ginkgo
thank you @marble hemlock , have a nice day and have fun in SL ::)
marble hemlock
u2
ebon tundra
Was there any changes to rogues in general over the last few days? cant find any recent patch notes and just checking my Spellbook and rank 2 SnD now increases energy regen?
fiery shell
alacrity increases haste which increases energy regen. SND doesn't impact that unless theres a bug
marble hemlock
r2 snd increases energy regen by 10%
it used to be 20% increased attackspeed, but was changed a while ago
fiery shell
being dumb, was thinking about live
placid dawn
is that 10% additive to alacrity?
urban marsh
halcyon oak
Wow they really neutered it
arctic pond
rip
vestal wren
👋 was never a fan of angels
dry atlas
🦀
frigid kestrel
NF 4 Lyfe
astral solar
lol the hunter discord is always malding over the idea of being nf
frigid kestrel
Your logic check out
vestal wren
With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):
^to be clear, this is just with lets go removed, hence its now not a dps trait anymore
distant cypress
nice, dead pelagos is good pelagos
zenith jungle
did they nerf Pelagos more since last week?
minor thicket
lament dove
I'm torn between necro and night fae:\
nimble garnet
^
distant cypress
im going night fae because its blue and i like blue
lunar pelican
if you're playing multiple pecs, NF looks to be consistently good (falls a little behind on outlaw ST though)
nimble garnet
ill onbly go to sub if assa its completely dead
lament dove
and not because of dps reasons but because of the mobility ability vs. the atmosphere of necro^^
lunar pelican
fleshcraft looks to be good, if not awkward to use
that mobility though is pretty spicy, and having another "sprint" is always good
nimble garnet
whats the second sprint? ;o
lunar pelican
night fae's signature
distant cypress
turrning into speedyboi
nimble garnet
oh u mean the transform thingy?
lunar pelican
yeah
nimble garnet
until u teleport to ur death XD
lunar pelican
also helps make up for sin rogues only having one charge of shadowstep, so that's kinda nice to consider as well
nimble garnet
true
lunar pelican
not that sin rogues hurt for mobility at all
fleet whale
i'm just gonna say fuck it on go venthyr
lunar pelican
im thinking the same thing
fleet whale
i don't really focus that much on M+ at all, and as far as ST is concerned they are all ultra close
lunar pelican
i really, truly, hate the aesthetics of NF
foggy remnant
I really like the aesthetic of Venthyr.
I had always wanted to go Venthyr after we learned about the covenants. So I'll probably pick them
We'll see I guess
eternal bluff
At least they made them actually close enough that it's not just a "it's this one and fuck the rest"
primal zinc
emm
guys
in a pure ST boss fight since we have that much haste....why blindside instead of elabo plan?
fleet whale
where are we getting that much haste
primal zinc
alac?
primal zinc
how much haste does ep needs?
30? 40?>
moer?
more*
well i mean in order to generate energy for finisher moves i mean
fleet whale
I'm not that sure, but also note that EP took indirect nerfs due to us losing some bfa things
stuff like SS, essences
indirectly made EP better
primal zinc
you mean full corrupoted items with haste and such?
fleet whale
well, not just that
since EP was the best option in uldir too
but i think you're also underrating the power of blindside
and how it helps us get more resources
primal zinc
passive lasts forever?
fleet whale
EP doesn't last forever
fleet whale
I'm actually quite glad we get to switch off from EP for a bit
since it's been the main option for over two years now
eternal bluff
EP is such a boring talent.. I like the switch to blindside as well. It's refreshing
balmy condor
Like 10 seconds
But it doesn’t matter
Because you replace the next mutilate with the proc
lament dove
but you should use it asap so it can proc again
fleet whale
i'm used to this playstyle since i played sin for all of mop in wod
when this was baseline basically
primal zinc
so now
after opener we can cheese 5 cp if needed for envenom with shiv and ambush procc aswell
balmy condor
Sure
primal zinc
since shiv is the old toxic blade
balmy condor
What’s 70%?
balmy condor
Rank 2 snd is 10% energy regen
Not attack speed
They changed that about a month ago
primal zinc
oh
just noticed
so now we have better energy regen
10% from vigor and 10% from snd
frigid kestrel
Yes
balmy condor
(Was actually a slight loss in pre-raid sims compared to the 20% attack speed but we don’t talk about that)
balmy condor
It’s roughly the same
primal zinc
more regen gives more skills but 50<70% attack speed
balmy condor
But it’s a little bit worse
primal zinc
so extrsa 20% as>than 10% energry regen?
primal zinc
so i guess the SL stats will be versa>crit with 20% softcap haste
primal zinc
(20% cos of the extra 10% of alac so total 30%)
balmy condor
SL stats are haste > basically everything else
% gains don't affect the diminishing return, only stat gains do
and even then
haste is still a good stat
we're only vers>crit atm because of essences like memory which is giving us like 10-15apm for free
balmy condor
I'll ping stjern lauren don't make me do it 
proper sage
me and stjern are friends now
balmy condor
shit.
primal zinc
mastery sucks at assa
balmy condor
=> means its slightly worse, and sometimes equal, possibly better, depending on your other stats
it doesn't suck
it sucks just as much as crit does
and crit sucks just as much as vers
balmy condor
which is not at all
primal zinc
no its a personal prefference i prefer versa which covers all dmg done not just bleed and poison
thats all
sterile jackal
i'd love mastery sin
much more flavour to the class
and poisons are core
so it would be reasonable to be masterful with them
bright lintel
not sure where to post it, but is this true?
balmy condor
what
primal zinc
whats that?
bright lintel
emenis ability that grants main stat
balmy condor
its 10 seconds
primal zinc
whwats lbe?
sterile jackal
combo reduction does not work on covenant abilities, right?
balmy condor
I don't see anywhere that it scales with anything
but then again
no beta
so the fuck do I know
balmy condor
should already be there
bright lintel
emeni is so annoying to unlock, thats why I can't rly test it
balmy condor
will say though
wowhead comments are not where you want to get your information from XD
that place is a cesspool and a half
bright lintel
well 30 sec on a 1 min (or even shorter) cd seems way to strong
that's why it made sense in my head
bright lintel
brm for example would be able to have a 13% main stat increase for 100% uptime
grizzled jay
that's me 🙂
grizzled jay
that's specifically for buffs on your allies
bright lintel
30 sec for allies and 10 sec for you?
grizzled jay
It's 5s for allies as a Rogue
balmy condor
grizzled jay
It's 30s for Mage. They were just using the Mage duration in the 'tooltip'.
balmy condor
so it does depend on cooldown duration?
grizzled jay
Always has yeah
balmy condor
unlucky
bright lintel
so wowhead comment is true 
grizzled jay
If you use it on CD it'll end up the same duration regardless of class, which is the design
Well since I am the commenter, yes it is true
balmy condor
imagine having beta to know intricacies of soulbinds
its a sadge for sure
thanks tmb
gray fjord
It honestly even throws me off a bunch honestly, since the duration of buffs or amount of stacks you get from things changes with duration too.
Like the Grove Invigoration Niya soulbind effect gives different stacks of the mastery buff based on how long your covenant ability CD is.
balmy condor
its hard to keep up for me
not only do you get changes every week, but then there's shit like this
where you read the changes
and the abilities
grizzled jay
They designed Soulbinds so that the Traits are hopefully not better for one class than another. The only one that doesn't follow this rule is Field of Blossoms
balmy condor
and it doesn't tell you anything
grizzled jay
The Field that it puts down is a base 15s duration regardless of Covenant ability
So Paladin gets a 50% uptime on it
gray fjord
Yeah that's bonkers then. I kinda wish the wowhead tooltips could be changed for what class you have, like how you can preview azerite armor.
grizzled jay
It's the capend on Dreamweaver
bright lintel
btw thx for the clarification @grizzled jay ❤️
grizzled jay
When you use your NF ability, she puts a Field under you that grats 10% haste for 15s
gray fjord
Beefy haste buff thingy whenever you use your ability. Drops flowers on the ground you stand in
Yeah
grizzled jay
She's the best for Paladin for that fact alone that Blessing of Seasons is only 30s cd
gray fjord
She sims quite well, but for rogues is a 22.5 second duration in a minute and a half cooldown. Good luck standing in one spot that long. xD
grizzled jay
Dreamweaver is just very strong in general. Social Butterfly super strong
And for Sin specifically, Pod means you can probably run Leeching Poison saefly
balmy condor
zera, video idea, top 200 things in shadowlands that you can't lookup through tooltips and spell modifiers
grizzled jay
Means you have pretty decent survivability
gray fjord
@balmy condor xD Believe me, it'd be more than 200. lol
grizzled jay
But then you'd be like Bellular
balmy condor
3, 4 maybe even 4 and a half dollars
grizzled jay
And at that point you'd want to end yourself
balmy condor
anyway fuck soulbind numbers I'm making a bagel lmao I hate everything
gray fjord
That's what I wanted, all thumbs today. Nah I'm not like that, I hate clickbait and when my videos are 20 minutes long it's because there's a crapload of stuff to go over. xD Later Whispyr.
grizzled jay
with the Pelagos nerf, the nice part is
all 3 Kyrian are within 0.2% of each other pretty much
So you get to go what you like
which should be Mikanikos cause Bron is a fucking LAD
gray fjord
Yeah. I think if I /did/ go Kyrian (I'm probably going Night Fae) I'd pick Kleia for that beefy heal. with Master assassin you'd have that sucker at 20 stacks easy every time.
And the 8% crit bonus is nice too.
grizzled jay
I am leaning NF now just because of its ease of use
dark shoal
I guess doomblade and bloodfang don't interact with each other, right?
grizzled jay
And Korayn/Dreamweaver
I am going full simp Rogue in SL
@dark shoal No way to test because you can only wear one Legendary
But SBS does not affect Doomblade from what I recall, so doubtful Bloodfang would
dark shoal
Ugh, i was thinking that the moment they announced these
gray fjord
Korayn is pumpin right now, but I'd be cautious of them nerfing the crit % or putting an internal cooldown on the effect or something. Niya is no slouch either, since we get that free interrupt damage for m+
And Burrs hit like a truck on most enemies
grizzled jay
Niya for M+ and Dreamweaver for Raids is what I'd go
dark shoal
It could be a 5x bleeds on a target, therefore 25% envenom dmg pog
vestal wren
first strike is probably the only obviouse outliner that is left
gray fjord
For doomblades damage you have rupture/garrote/crimson tempest/doomblade itself affecting it. I don't think internal bleeding does, might be wrong.
Yeah it's pretty spicy, kinda worried about that one.
vestal wren
its 30 renown, to it won't rly matter early
grizzled jay
if anything it'd be a 9.1 nerf
vestal wren
people already ask me to do sims for lower renown bc. night fae just looks very busted
grizzled jay
not a 9.0 nerf
gray fjord
Of course ^^ Just wouldn't want people to get jebaited into NF because of it sounding so strong before we even reach it
grizzled jay
i think lower renown sims will have Emeni at top
dark shoal
furries monkasS
pure spire
NF all the way
gray fjord
Emeni definitely is one of the strongest initial soulbinds, though I think Nadjia is really close in early game for single target stuff.
vestal wren
i mean, with diffrences of .8% at max between covenants early, its rly a "pick whatever" decision
grizzled jay
you can't sim the +2% main stat to 4 allies but that will more than likely put Emeni over the top for prog
esp for Sub cause LBE and Symbols are on the same CD
strange python
But wouldn't kyrian be the most optimal choice based off of this?
grizzled jay
Kyrian is -0.17% dps compared to Night Fae, so no?
wraith lance
Hello. Why would you go subterfuge in prepatch without shrouded suffocation?
jagged axle
have the tweaks come through yet brothers
balmy condor
MA is higher for some people without ss though
@jagged axle no sin changes, only soulbinds
jagged axle
soon
prisma monolithBOT
Shadowlands release: 5 days 1 hours 34 minutes 33 seconds
balmy condor
Soon
wraith lance
yea ok. it just felt like such a waste to not go ss. god. i guess ill have to sim
ty anyway! 🙂
balmy condor
Np
jagged axle
5 days until we're released from tha BFA shackles
balmy condor
Prepatch is 2dd 1ss + hod/bbi stuff usually for single target for when you sim. ilvl gain from mythic cara/n’zoth pumps hard as well @wraith lance
formal wolf
guys, where can I see an updated pre-patch rotation?
wraith lance
ty!
balmy condor
In the pins, and in the guides
The rotation didn’t change though
Maintain snd, don’t hit shiv
balmy condor
You just maintain snd all the time
And shiv in prepatch is unusable
So we don’t press it
formal wolf
ok what about the opener, when should i hit s&d and shiv
balmy condor
You don’t hit shiv.
formal wolf
ok about shiv but should i hit s&d before garote/rupture
balmy condor
Before rupture
formal wolf
at 4 points?
balmy condor
Yes
Every finisher at 4
In opener you can hit it at 1
Which again, is in the guide
formal wolf
hmm i didnt find it there, I will check again, thanks
balmy condor
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
formal wolf
ah i was looking at the ravenholdt guide
right
I will check it now. Thanks again! 🙂
strange python
Oof SL day one is gonna be crazy.
balmy condor
Np
balmy condor
We got fixed? News to me
strange python
No I meant shiv got fixed cause remember it used to do nothing
balmy condor
Well toxic blade got replaced with alacrity, and the nature damage effect got put onto shiv
The reason it’s useless atm is that it’s locked behind a level
strange python
Which I'm really interested to see how sin is gonna scale in this next week or so
jagged axle
we have the late game guys
balmy condor
I’m not sure what you mean by “scale in this next week”
We know how sin does in shadowlands
jagged axle
slender berry
we will get our buff and be best specc for denathrius with execute legendary
i believe
slender berry
theres no way they would completly ignore assa because the other 2 speccs are decent right ? thats never gonna happen
tropic ocean
5 days until we're released from tha BFA shackles
@jagged axle will see which shackles are better
past haven
Is Theotar's last soulbind Refined Palate, better than the versatility one Wasteland Propriety? versatility looks appealing to me
tropic ocean
theres no way they would completly ignore assa because the other 2 speccs are decent right ?
@slender berry yeah I don't think there was ever a time where a spec was ignored for 90% of the addon
tropic ocean
😄
jagged axle
i will have a mental break if ass is terrible the whole xpac
tropic ocean
im kinda happy already
jagged axle
not actually but I'll be really sad
tropic ocean
that I don't need to choose between kyrian and night fae
since night fae is good for m+ and raid now
balmy condor
@past haven I think fuu's spreadsheet has soulbind comparisons for that
tropic ocean
other than that I just play what I enjoy and switch to op spec if encounter needs it
(like if theres some fight like zul or other)
past haven
@balmy condor thanks i'll go check that
shadow tulip
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
light kestrel
Anyone know if the putricide trinket is any good?
low girder
night fae gang gang
steel elbow
Last I knew the Putricide trinket was still broken and not proccing the Motes of Anger stacks to be consumed and deal the 50% weapon damage. If it hasn't been fixed it's just a crit stat stick which is pretty much useless compared to other available trinkets currently. @light kestrel
light kestrel
Ah gotcha, thanks for the answer
astral solar
im only using it cuz it increased my ilvl by like. 6.
raven karma
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
charred terrace
Is it possible to make a macro that combines Mutilate/Ambush, which uses Ambush if Subterfuge is active?
fleet whale
i just have ambush binded to an extra action button
that way it's usable in stealth and with blindside procs
fleet whale
i had dispatch and mutilate on separate binds too
(for those unaware, dispatch used to be the name of assassin's execute)
charred terrace
ah yes I meant for blindside sorry*
lucid ruin
So if I really only really enjoy Sin and am kind of bleh about outlaw and meh on sub going into SL am I fucked? No mythic raiding and only pushing semi high keys super high level stuff
fringe phoenix
strange python
Well then where do you have ambush bound to?
strange python
That's interesting. I have stealth bound to r
strange python
Well do you use wasd for movement?
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
ye just more practice needed
strange python
Ya I'm a newbie to rogue and there's quiet a few combat builders and finishers and stuff
But overall assasin is pretty laid back.
lucid ruin
I have stealth bound to MB5 and im still running out of easy keybinds for stuff like ambush
strange python
Ya there's so many things rogues can have bound lol
lucid ruin
I use T to tab target though and that's kind of fucking me over
I hate pressing shift, hidden bar above it with more shift keybinds
strange python
When in stealth I have ambush on 5. Out of stealth I have the proc on Num 2
And I use clique for my self buffs and healing so that cuts down on keybinds
balmy condor
playable
hollow escarp
slice and dice though 
hollow escarp
I don't hate it but I would like a way to extend it with envenom or something
shut garnet
they might hate it less, but having to press an annoying maintenance isnt a bonus at all if ur spec also happens to be shit
balmy condor
“I want the good things from slice but I don’t want the button”
Blindside/Ambush, snd and envenom refreshing
I’m sensing a pattern
low girder
i just don't think it's bad, at all. especially in prepatch, most of the time it feels like nothing is happening
even with the extra energy using CT on st felt way worse to me
because the duration was so short
balmy condor
we sustain until 6
but even after 5 targets, its pretty much fine to always sustain
minimal loss to use 4-5 cp every 40 seconds
hollow escarp
makes sense
the issue I have with it is on opener
it doesn't feel good to press it instead of any other finisher 
halcyon oak
Stealth is on my middle mouse button. Feels good to bop it
echo blaze
does it matter what weapon has any of the enchants ?
balmy condor
no
echo gust
Is sin still 10% behind sub?
hollow escarp
is there a public link/page with those numbers?
balmy condor
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
balmy condor
right there
hollow escarp
tyvm
glass quest
morning guys
when i use Slice and Dice does my Bleed and poision go faster or is it only attack speed and in weapon swings (auto attacks)?
royal lantern
attack speed is attack speed, not dot tick rate lol
glass quest
just wanted to make sure youd ont did need to lol for that,. my bad
sand bolt
hi anyone there? so has anyone AssassinationRogue tested serrated bone spike’s dot damage? find it bleeding dot damage don't Influenced by the doomblade add envenom damage
sand bolt
so neclord spell serrated bone spike,No effect on the doomblade....?
sand bolt
but i find dummy had this debuff , envenom damage 580 to 620 ,but no this debuff 580-600 and when i got garrote debuff,damage 600 - 620.
so i think it has a bug?
halcyon skiff
is there a covenant that stands out for all three specs ?
grizzled jay
Blizzard was able to balance them all within 1% unlike what all the big heads said
sand bolt
so now,I will follow my personal preference to choose one
but now beta are still many bugs
balmy condor
they fixed a ton of them over the last couple weeks
sand bolt
such as Sub's finality, it still can't get effect for black power
so i think doomblade yay or nay bug
balmy condor
doubtful
sand bolt
The beta server just restarted,The build may be installed
balmy condor
they usually aren't fans of interactions like that
sand bolt
at last,i love assassintion talent,but it too weak in beta, i wish blz can buff
em... it may be one new bug
Necrolord/Emeni: Lead by Example
Your Covenant class ability increases your primary stat by 5% but when i use it only 2% myself
and for 5.0 seconds
balmy condor
duration is changed based on class
balmy condor
dunno man
sand bolt
maybe BLZ had one mistake
radiant dove
gm all. so.. are assassination rogues gonna end up like legion? i dont wanna skip into sub and put effort to it because i see a nerf in the future as it happends in bfa after first raid (10 rogues at zul uldir etc etc..). cheers all.
low girder
IDK what you mean by the first part, since both sub and sin had their time in the sun during legion. The second part I wouldn't expect a giant nerfbat, no. Spec hierarchy will always vary patch to patch though. That's how it goes.
royal lantern
give sub some time too shine
radiant dove
in legion with zoldyck sin rogues where like ''gods''. was a very strong leggy. thats what i meant.
royal lantern
its possible that it flies too close too the sun again anyway
balmy condor
Sin rogues weren’t gods all of legion
royal lantern
and hope that they atleast make sin playable
legion was all spec
EN outlaw cus overtuned
NH sin
ToS sub
balmy condor
Yeh
royal lantern
antorus sin and sub, sin slightly better
low girder
Outlaw had some good fights in NH as well
balmy condor
It’s almost like patches add things and tune stuff that changes balance
Very hard concept
low girder
What I would say is take advantage of the fact that you're a pure. Play it all. If you tried and hate it that's one thing, but give some time to all 3
balmy condor
Sin only or I reroll havoc mata you’ll never see me again bliizurd bad >:(
balmy condor
Leggos craft pretty quick from what I’ve heard
I don’t think it’ll be that bad tbh
Unless you’re omega push obviously
But the like 3 month CE, or Aotc guilds
Should be comfy
drifting cloud
you can have 2 r2 on hc week
drifting cloud
most will I assume
royal lantern
i will not craft a legendary until mythic is open
drifting cloud
ill have to craft for sure, prolly have 20h of boosting on hc week already 
low girder
low girder
Kek
drifting cloud
is kyrian not ded now?
drifting cloud
not like Ive looked at the numbers ..
radiant dove
i will roll it 💩 kyrian or nf 😆
balmy condor
Venthyr is dumb tho
drifting cloud
for assa I assume?
balmy condor
Screw venthyr
fallow otter
If they all identical numbers wise, what you picking?
drifting cloud
the one thats least scuffed in m+
royal lantern
gotta go fast
fallow otter
I kinda want the shield
low girder
NF vs venthyr for sub is 2 dps rn lol
fallow otter
Fuck that pet owl wanker whisp lol
jaunty arrow
Covenants are kinda w/e coz before u reach "final" dunno name trait there will be another x buffs and nerfs
fallow otter
Say no to owl wankers
drifting cloud
youre a bunch of tryhards, sl isnt for another 5days
you can decide while lvling!
fallow otter
Agree that it's the coolest but doesn't outweigh how bad the owl wanker is
balmy condor
TRUE
low girder
I got other shit to level after
drifting cloud
well I havent really followed it since the start
royal lantern
bruh
drifting cloud
Ive had beta since what like June didnt even install it
royal lantern
i read class changes etc
drifting cloud
royal lantern
but actuall beta gameplay in dungeons/raids?
i dont even know how a single raid fight/dungeon boss works
drifting cloud
the content is mount farming anyways, gotta get the maw mount week 1
low girder
fallow otter
primal zinc
lol for all vulepra rogues with sepsis choice in mind
vulperas turn into vulpins teleporting infinately in rest are
areas
royal lantern
there are other forms for the ability btw
but ye
fox turning into a fox will be funny the first few times
short dirge
do we have useful macros like sub ?
royal lantern
the sub macros are not even"usefull"its really more of an QoL thing with them
balmy condor
Tryan don’t start I see you typing
royal lantern
😄
balmy condor
Don’t mention it
royal lantern
balmy condor
They don’t need to know
primal zinc
another simple question....what if sespis goes off and by mistake we use muti instead of ambush??? do we miss the free stealth skill?
balmy condor
Yes
royal lantern
i had 1 macro trought out legion and bfa for sin!
balmy condor
I did too
primal zinc
./kneel for penitent?
balmy condor
My Tb and exsang were always on different buttons
Cause my muscle memory is jank
But I had a macro
Mouseover for tricks
balmy condor
The conduits ye
primal zinc
those conduits are like drop from WQ just like now?
primal zinc
or boss drops?
balmy condor
The drop locations are for sure
balmy condor
Yes
primal zinc
i mean in a specific area well placed steel drops rank 2
if im lucky can it be upgraded to rank 11 for exp?
balmy condor
Lp drops from a dungeon, as does wps
primal zinc
oh ok
and something else
last
lets say that i have 20% haste
field of blossoms grants me 12% haste
primal zinc
its 20%+12% or 12%inc at 20%?
balmy condor
20+12
primal zinc
so its more not inc
balmy condor
Idk what “inc” is
primal zinc
increased
balmy condor
Well yeah
They don’t stack off each other
“Gain 12% haste” is 12% haste
Not 12% of your haste which could be something that’s buffed by something else so it buffs everything else as well which then buffs the first thing
That’s how you break things
primal zinc
lol
primal zinc
about the utilities tho
balmy condor
Sure
primal zinc
so i choose shadowstep and recuperator
cd is important and also free heal is nver bad
🙂
balmy condor
Sure
I think the heal is much better than the shadowstep cooldown
But if you’re using shadowstep that much then I guess
balmy condor
What?
summer valve
that's incorrect@balmy condor @primal zinc haste from different sources is multiplicative
primal zinc
😮