assassination

[lofty pecan]

but thats full automation no ?

[vestal wren]

no

[lofty pecan]

the macro changes automatically

[vestal wren]

full automation is if the bot clicks the button for you

[sick scarab]

i press the button ofc

[lofty pecan]

i tried with GSE maybe im just bad

[sick scarab]

but i want to cast ambush ONLY it it proc or it is available

not cycle between ambush and mut

i tried also ages ago but i suck woht gnome 🙂

[vestal wren]

you can just download gnome sequencer.
open it with /gs, create a new macro, paste:

/cast mutilate```then save and it will automatically use mut/ambush if you press the button

[lofty pecan]

its that simple?

[vestal wren]

yes

[lofty pecan]

jesus im bad

[sick scarab]

i did that

but it ios not what i mean..

that works but..

macro what it do is spam cast ambush and mutilate

[vestal wren]

i did it a while ago a prove of concept

[sick scarab]

doding 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2

[vestal wren]

i think you can change to priority list in the dropdown too
(step function)

[sick scarab]

i did it also 10 min ago

but it is not what i mean

[balmy condor]

the whole point is that it cycles

and he doesn't want that fuu

[sick scarab]

i think it is not possiblòe

[balmy condor]

he wants a literally if castable, it casts ambush, otherwise cast mutilate

[sick scarab]

i dont want the cycle i want he see spell active BAM cast that

[vestal wren]

does it cycle if you use priority step function?

[sick scarab]

need to go deep again but i think y

i jave this macro

sec

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Slice and Dice; Mutilate

you know what it does it is simple

i want to add variable to cast ambush when ambish is available

if i do cast mbush cast mutilate it spam them

fuu if you are good a gnomesequence try some stuff i will try to maybe it can be uselfull to someone

it is a quality life macro not a automation 🙂

[balmy condor]

(casting two different abilities with the same button is literally automating it)

[lofty pecan]

^

[balmy condor]

my blood pressure is rising again

[sick scarab]

ahaha

[lofty pecan]

you only want the ambush to be casted when it procs

that is automation

[sick scarab]

yep

i cast it

[lofty pecan]

but if you;re using fuus macro its not because its in a cycle

[sick scarab]

i press the button

[lofty pecan]

but yeah i get what you mean because i tried

its automation and its not allowed

id just put my ambush outside of bar 1

[balmy condor]

"why are 1 button macros not allowed, I'm pressing 1 button and casting 1 ability"

it just happens to cast different abilities according to certain game states

[vestal wren]

fuu if you are good a gnomesequence try some stuff i will try to maybe it can be uselfull to someone
i am not sure what you mean by that

the macro works fine even if it "cycles"

[balmy condor]

its not clean enough for him

is the thing

[vestal wren]

like who cares about it visually cycling

[balmy condor]

we've been in this timeline before fuu

[sick scarab]

ahaha

okok nvm forget it

i was just curious it is not needed

[vestal wren]

gnome sequencer is not needed

but its a lot easier to use

this discussion is like:
"can somone provide me a easy solution to this problem"
"provides a easy solution"
"but this solution is not elegant enough"

[balmy condor]

referring to ambush and mutilate not being the same ability as a problem

[sick scarab]

lol

guys chill

[sick scarab]

lol

now i explain better but dont get upset

[balmy condor]

no I get what you want

its not happening

you don't have

please don't

I'm not strong enough

[vestal wren]

all fine

[sick scarab]

i explain why i say fuu thing not good for me 🙂

[vestal wren]

so why?

[sick scarab]

#showtooltip
/cast [nomod] Ambush
/cast [nomod] Mutilate
/cast [mod:shift] Slice and Dice

[balmy condor]

here we go again

[vestal wren]

i don't get it

[sick scarab]

mm

nvm cant explain correctly

[balmy condor]

this discussion is like:
"can somone provide me a easy solution to this problem"
"provides a easy solution"
"but this solution is not elegant enough"
@vestal wren
it's this, but it was asked in 6 different ways in the last hour, and it's just looping at this point

that's why I'm losing my mind 🙃

[sick scarab]

well

we just having discussion and trying to figure it out

you are the only here who loose the mind

keep it calm relax and go drink a tea

[balmy condor]

there's nothing to figure out

is the thing

[sick scarab]

i am asking

relax and chill

[balmy condor]

you can take the cycle macro, and have it cycle
you can bot and have the functionality you want
you can bind it to two separate keys

those are your options

[sick scarab]

i repeat

relax and chill

[balmy condor]

I'm trying to

that's why I wrote out your options

very clean and organized

[vestal wren]

all fine

i just don't understand the problem

and posting a macro without contest does not rly help

[sick scarab]

try that macro fuu and see the problem (if interested) otherwise np

[balmy condor]

it works fine

and that makes me angry too

[sick scarab]

the macro i posted

[vestal wren]

the macro cycles, it means more key presses

you can't get rid of that

[sick scarab]

exacllty

[vestal wren]

but it works fine

and adding slice does nothing

[balmy condor]

its functionally equal

[sick scarab]

whysper if you loose your mind pls dont reply tnx

[vestal wren]

there is a trade off of using the same key for ambush + mut

[balmy condor]

I'm perfectly calm

[sick scarab]

seems not to me lol

[vestal wren]

and there is no way to prevent this tradeoff

[balmy condor]

I'm just saying that fuu's macro and the one you envision, are equal in usage

you just have to spam the button

[vestal wren]

there are macro restrictions you can't work around

[sick scarab]

o add slice and dice iowht modfier btw same button but wiht mod .. but it work strange .. it cycle it also

weird

so nvm i set stuff normal and gg

[balmy condor]

if its a part of the same macro, it will cycle

that's why I suggested splitting the the slice modifier key onto its own actionbar button

which you can bind to the same mod key

[sick scarab]

mm

[vestal wren]

you can just add slice in the macro

works fine

you still have the cycling with mut/ambush

[balmy condor]

/click still exists wow

its been a long time since I've seen that

lmao

[vestal wren]

its how gnome sequencer works

more or less

[balmy condor]

yeah

just seeing it in a macro window

[sick scarab]

ah k

i missed that i was trying to use inside gse

trying now 🙂

[vestal wren]

to summerize it a last time:

• you can use a mut/ambush macro with gnome sequencer.
• the macro is as simple as:/cast ambush /cast mutilate- The solution comes with the restriction that you need to press the button multiple times because it cycles

[sick scarab]

k

i try how i feel this 🙂

anyway tnx fuu

that works didnt knew i can modify the macro that come out from gse

tnx tnx for the tip

[silver topaz]

Is it normal for a damage break down to look like this (ignoring the cannon blast)? I feel like I can mess up horribly and it won't even matter because all of my damage comes from garrote

[balmy condor]

not sure what your essence setup is

and azerite

but your eb damage seems really low

[silver topaz]

I only have 1 EB, on a low piece

[balmy condor]

that would do it

[silver topaz]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Sameera?utm_source=addon

[balmy condor]

oh 2 ttk

your envenoms should be much higher then

that's weird too

if the run on there is accurate you're also not using memory minor

which slows down your rotation quite a lot

[silver topaz]

I am not currently, my gear is pretty garbage and I haven't put much time into this character

[balmy condor]

probably why you're seeing so much garrote damage

just a lack of casts

[silver topaz]

Would that explain the low amount of envenom dmg ?

[balmy condor]

yep

seems like because of gear, no memory, and the azerite choice

you basically just 3x gar from stealth, CT

and then run out of energy

and things die

[frail fossil]

i need to try key as sin

[balmy condor]

so nothing else is doing damage

[silver topaz]

I assume in AoE I'm supposed to fan of knives > crimson tempest > fok > Slice and Dice > fok > rupture everything

[frail fossil]

would this set up do https://raider.io/characters/eu/ravencrest/Margiëla ?

for m+

[silver topaz]

and only then start to use envenom whilst maintaining SnD and CT

[frail fossil]

without galecaller tho

[balmy condor]

well its a little more nuanced but generally yeah

maintain CT, maintain snd until 6 targets

rupture everything, garrote from stealth, or on prio if it dropped

[silver topaz]

I imagine the nuances will just come from experience and practice, but on a basic level I feel like I'm doing it partially correct

[balmy condor]

in shadowlands might want to maintain envenom because of poison stuff

but ye

sin is pretty reliant on eb for aoe

[silver topaz]

I haven't looked into any shadowlands changes, I'm just currently looking for a 2nd character to play, I main demo lock

[balmy condor]

so it definitely hurts not having it

@frail fossil looks fine

[frail fossil]

i change poison bomb for crimson tempest

and like i go xanesh trinket

[balmy condor]

well change blindside for ep, pb for ct, and get rid of the galecaller/vita

[frail fossil]

oh even vita ?

[silver topaz]

just trying to look at other fun classes, and since awakened is leaving in sl I assume rogues will be in high demand for m+, so I'm looking at playing one

[balmy condor]

high plumage/spyglass

would be ideal two trinkets

[frail fossil]

yeah i dont have those two lmfao

[balmy condor]

galecallers is definitely a no no

but vita is fine

you can go xanesh vita

[frail fossil]

yeah gale is my raid trinket

[balmy condor]

probably okay

[frail fossil]

but i never use it on m+

i got electromental in a jar 130 with a socket also

so that might do instead of vita

imma go sim sum

[balmy condor]

@silver topaz rogues will probably be high demand for m+, but you're in the wrong channel if you want to be in high demand XD sin is looking pretty meh at best, both of the other specs just do it better, and outlaw meta will continue to reign supreme

[frail fossil]

yeah

outlaw will stay the m+ king

but it does not mean u have to play it right, like in s4 some sin were absolutely pumping in keys

like sub/Sin will not be bad

they just will be less good

i mean sin does need a buff tho

[silver topaz]

I just find ass more fun, I don't really do keys that are high enough where having the exact meta comp is needed

highest I did S4 was a +22

[frail fossil]

yeah exactly

[balmy condor]

atm is like outlaw > sub > and uh somewhere maybe sin over here

[frail fossil]

yeah sadge

sin is pretty fun tho

[silver topaz]

lol

[frail fossil]

but like in s4 top sin was 6k io

[balmy condor]

problem is that sin's aoe potential is multi-dotting

[frail fossil]

so u could def get away with playing sub

[balmy condor]

but multi-dotting doesn't really do a lot of damage

[frail fossil]

yeah sin is inconvenient

in a m+ set up

[balmy condor]

and you got a ton of ramp

and its just messy

[frail fossil]

yeah very lol

tank need to play around you

but as a tank i encountered a lot of sin rogues, and like they were doing really good dmg wise

[balmy condor]

like garrote from stealth? great cleave, but you get 3 and that's your damage

[silver topaz]

Will the distribution of damage change for sin going into shadowlands ? Garrote being way higher than everything else frustrates me. I hate that I can play incorrectly but so long as I press garrote out of stealth properly everything will be fine

[frail fossil]

lmfao

still the same

apparently

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean we lose SS

so its less so

[frail fossil]

yeah

[balmy condor]

but subterfuge garrotes from stealth still exist

[sick scarab]

they should give us SS somewhere

[balmy condor]

and that's the gameplay

[frail fossil]

but like it'll still be ahead with subterfuge

in m+

[sick scarab]

wiht sepsis it was OP..

[frail fossil]

i mean i'm fine with sin staying kinda awkward

sepsis does not trigger subterfuge

yeah

[sick scarab]

interesting gameplay.. but blizz

[balmy condor]

there's a lot of things I wish we got tbh

[frail fossil]

yeah i mean sin aoe relied on azerites basically

[grizzled jay]

dont use IO for anything

[balmy condor]

like in order for sin to be m+ viable you need to rethink the damage makeup

[frail fossil]

and blizz saw that wand was like

[grizzled jay]

because you can abuse RIO

[sick scarab]

are tards and they tweaked sepsis in a crap spell (gameplay wise)

[grizzled jay]

you go into a key as sin then swap to outlaw but RIO counts it as Sin

that's how you have like 4k+ io sub rogues in the lsitings

[balmy condor]

that's why I asked if its accurate tmb thanks

[frail fossil]

ooof lol

that's so lame lmfao

[grizzled jay]

Sin is still viable though

[sick scarab]

o have faith in sin

[grizzled jay]

Yoda used Sin in a series-deciding TD

Just a matter if you wanted the AoE from Outlaw or the ST damage from Sin

[sick scarab]

to me it will be better more we go on

[frail fossil]

we have the late game dw guys

[grizzled jay]

since TD you cannon like 1/2 the dungeon, Outlaw ends up being not as strong

so boss damage matters more in TD

same in SoB if you spotter all the mobs

Outlaw becomes moot

[balmy condor]

good thing this is 8.3 with double obelisk last boss

[frail fossil]

yes but also

[sick scarab]

outlaw should be removed from game wtf.. outlaw is not a rogue

fuck blizz 🙂

[frail fossil]

this isn't 8.3

like it's sl

now that's a cringe opinion outlaw is cool af

[jaunty arrow]

Nah combat was cool

[grizzled jay]

combat was boring af lol

[frail fossil]

idk didn't play when combat was a thing

[balmy condor]

I'd be happy deleting outlaw for combat

[grizzled jay]

"press SS til Red icon, then do real DPS"

how exciting

[vital haven]

YOU TAKE THAT BACK @grizzled jay

[grizzled jay]

no lol. it was trash design.

[balmy condor]

as opposed to current design

[grizzled jay]

current design limits rerolling, which is good

[balmy condor]

press SS till pistol shot, press blade flurry for real DPS

much better

[vital haven]

i actually didnt even play combat i just wanted to say that

[balmy condor]

it adds a step

[grizzled jay]

we don't use pistol shot atm 😄

[balmy condor]

oh even better

[grizzled jay]

you only use Opportunity procs if you can't press SS

[balmy condor]

get rid of the step

functionally equal

[frail fossil]

yes but

blade flurry go brrrrrrrrrrrr

[grizzled jay]

the damage profile of combat was pretty bad

[balmy condor]

and you're arguing outlaw is better

[fleet whale]

SoO combat was really good

[balmy condor]

this is the damage profile

we want

[fleet whale]

lol look at all the buffs

[balmy condor]

(its a full dungeon log from a 30 freehold btw, that includes bosses)

look at this absolutely riveting trash damage profile

god I love aoe

Sin at least has like CT and envenom in there somewhere

[sick scarab]

from my pov outlaw is out of context .. speaking about rogue class

a pirate.. wtf is that

rogue should hide, stealth etc etc

not go pistols etc etc i mean wtf

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk, I get the lore, but it just feels like a warrior to me

[sick scarab]

assa is poisons and dots, sub is ninja stuff etc

outloaw is LOL

no point

[balmy condor]

I think the concept is fine, but it just doesn’t feel very rogue-y to me

[wind zenith]

i mean its a scoundrel which could be considered a rogueish archetype

[sick scarab]

exaclty

[wind zenith]

at least as much as ninja

[balmy condor]

Yeah I agree

And people seem to enjoy it

[sick scarab]

ninja do stealthy stuff etc

[balmy condor]

So I don’t mind

[sick scarab]

pirate . do wtf..

ofc ofc

[wind zenith]

think of them as a scoundrel not a pirate homey

convincing people, smuggling booze, hidden guns

[sick scarab]

y y

but i am old

and my brain freeze on some stuff

like amiga guru meditation error 🙂

[grizzled jay]

i love the fact that Outlaw is basically Fury Rogue. Good design imo

[wind zenith]

i just wish daggers were on the same xmog list as daggers and what not

[halcyon grail]

Always seen outlaw as more the Robin Hood swashbuckler bard rogue archetype.

[wind zenith]

yeah a scoundrel type

like flynn fairwind

[unkempt oracle]

Exactly. Pirates can still sneak around if they have to, but they prefer to come out screaming and drunk (no offense flynn)

[warm parcel]

Just scrolled up

We need more of rogue related memes @balmy condor

Havent had enough past few years

[halcyon grail]

Flynn is my second favourite wow Gay

Nobody will ever topTholo and Anren

[balmy condor]

I agree @warm parcel

[halcyon grail]

....wow that phrasing lol

'top.'

[grizzled jay]

only good WoW character is Broll Bearmantle

[wind zenith]

more like B-roll bearmantle

: ^)

[fleet whale]

only good wow character is Topper McNabb

[prisma yoke]

does anyone have current beta build racial sims by chance?

[balmy condor]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

in there

[prisma yoke]

shit, i didnt look close enough

thanks

[fleet whale]

dam racial sims are as close as ever lol, or at least it seems that way

[deft patio]

outlaw pirate sucks dick, they should bring back combat

the theme does not belong to rogue

[fleet whale]

that's why they called it "outlaw" and not "pirate"

an outlaw can be a lot of things

[fossil slate]

It's more of a highwayman

[fleet whale]

han Solo, Clint Eastwood

[fossil slate]

Stand and deliver boys!

[fleet whale]

Zoro

[deft patio]

wtf you are all outlaw lovers i see.

[fleet whale]

i'm not an outlaw lover

[fossil slate]

More Dick Turpin I'd say

[fleet whale]

but its theme is not limited to pirates

[deft patio]

pistol, the sword transmog from legion.

its pirate

[fleet whale]

ah yes, pirates are the only people who use pistols

[deft patio]

they use ''pirate'' inspired swords man, thats the kind of legion artifacts they had

[fleet whale]

yeah, but that was legion, and bfa took out more of the "piratey" things outlaw had

like parley and Cannonball barrage

[deft patio]

still, denying outlaw is an pirate inspired class theme is wrong man

[fleet whale]

it's inspired by a lot of things, as are rogues as a whole

yes that includes pirate

but terms like "rogue" and "outlaw" are very general

[sand otter]

I enjoy the fact i can xmog my favorite axes, and that AoE is as easy as pressing a button.

But im a sin player to the core.

[fleet whale]

like use a eyepatch xmog for assassin

and some of the KT dagger for mog

[sand otter]

i didnt say pirate

[fleet whale]

and there you go, sin is a pirate now

[sand otter]

i said my favorite axes

Havocs call and Troggbane

[fleet whale]

i'm trying to make a point

that rogues can be many things

[deft patio]

there is no point talking to this guy naro, he is a blind virgin

[sand otter]

o

[fleet whale]

lol

you do know that when combat was renamed to outlaw

that they actually changed the spec description

[balmy condor]

what happened in here

[fleet whale]

from "swashbuckler" to "fugitive"

[sand otter]

im fortunate enough that our guild is just a heroic AoTc on 2 nights a week. im super casual

[deft patio]

damn thats unlucky

[sand otter]

and thanks to Whispyr's training, i seem to be slowly getting better

why unlucky?

i work 50+ hours a week lol

[deft patio]

its unlucky you have to work so much

:/

[sand otter]

but i like my house

and my car

and money

[frail fossil]

i mean technically

[fleet whale]

sell drugs

[frail fossil]

rogues are supposed to be outlaws right

[deft patio]

then you happy working 120% then?

[frail fossil]

so it does fit

[fleet whale]

outlaw and rogue can be a lot of different things

[sand otter]

my job is honestly easy, im fortunate. but truth is i enjoy a ton of games, and i dont want to dump a ton of time into WoW

i play it for the group i get to hang with

even if they went normal raid only i would be fine

been playing this game a very long time. and the burn out hits you fast

im just a casual pleb

[deft patio]

yeah i get you man, ive been playing this game since classic, theree is no need to rush things ingame or else you get burned out

[sand otter]

yeah

i give all the love to mythic raiders

honestly the lore has kept me around the most

after covid ill be getting my tatoos

then i can say goodbye to dating ever again LMAO

[royal lantern]

outlaw and rogue can be a lot of different things
@fleet whale rogue can litearlly mean 11235125 different things, yet people think it only means edgy assassin or pirate lol

[carmine oracle]

!outlaw

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[carmine oracle]

Dont bulli me for that

[royal lantern]

look at this guy

not knowing all the bot commands

smh

[balmy condor]

outlaw in the sin channel

banned

[lime mantle]

yo, wanna ask, how will be assasinatioon rogue with covenants. i saw a lot of descusions, but honestly i never saw conctructive text about this.

[balmy condor]

wdym

sin is ~15% behind sub

regardless of covenant

[sick scarab]

i just received a beta invite LOL

9 days before sl go live.. lol

and btw blizz should allow us to tmog all 1h weapons we like daggers fists sword mace axes

all animation are generic melee so no point keep only daggers for assa as xmog etc

[grizzled jay]

The reason is clarity in PvP

Since Outlaw cannot use daggers in the MH, allowing Outlaw to transmog an item they can't even use wouldn't allow you to know what you are fighting until they start using abilities.

[sick scarab]

because wne ypu see a rogue you look at his weapons ?

cause we have daggers that are bigger than some swords ..

[royal lantern]

different animations

different attackspeed

thats the 2 mainreasons

dagger attacks look different then 1h/sword attacks

[fleet whale]

well, there are some daggers that look like swords

those ZG daggers come to mind

[royal lantern]

doesnt change the fact that the animations are different

1h weapons probably dont even have the dagger animations coded into the game, and otherway around

[sand otter]

sub is 15% ahead of sin but thats ok.

no sub rogues in my guild

[balmy condor]

no disappointment

[sand otter]

exactly

I just hope i can keep the same covenant for the expac, and then focus on the legendary thing, or w.e

then learn how the anima thing works

lol, by the time i get a grasp on the new things in an expac the new one is announced.

[balmy condor]

legendaries are like a craft every 2 weeks

[sick scarab]

i was hyped for old sepsis.. now i am bored about all of them

[balmy condor]

you'll probably be able to get most of them by the second tier

[sand otter]

sweet

my rogue will always be the cutest though

[royal lantern]

belf with meme vision

yikes

[sand otter]

Cant beat that with your logs

[balmy condor]

that's a demon hunter

[sand otter]

hey...

i wore that before DH were cool

shush

[sick scarab]

sec i will show my rogue lol

[lofty pecan]

vulpera rogues are the cutest

[sand otter]

they are cute

but this is the closest ill ever get to being sylvanas

[lofty pecan]

sylvanas is no more friend, winterqueen is the way

[sand otter]

lol

shes the reason there is even a game

she will always be there

[lofty pecan]

we going to kill her anyway

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sand otter]

naa

||Nathanos isnt dead, and we wont kill her, she gets a redemption arc and becomes Illidian 2.0||

[royal lantern]

if she isnt a raidboss

dunno

she will be one

lol

[sand otter]

T shirt in the winter, noice

She wont be a raid boss

[lofty pecan]

shouldve taken the picture while riding the bike

[sick scarab]

sec

[royal lantern]

ye no raidboss

cus then the casuals complain again that they cant see content

[sick scarab]

true men dont fear cold

[royal lantern]

so a 9.3 quest "Boss" you kill in 10seconds

[sand otter]

that better?

I would do anything to get Sylvanas' new armor as a rogue mog

For those interested in my theory/what evidence is pointing to:

||The jailor is a bad guy, blizzard said that, but sylv is using him to get stronger to take on a real threat, the arbiter isn't doing anything anymore, everyone just goes to the maw, so something is out of balance. Sylv will free everyone from that fate, and in the end (speculation) during the scene where arthas killed with frostmourne, the soul was shattered, half went to the maw, the other half stayed in the sword. Shes going to get her other half back, and in the end (massive speculation) will become a high elf again. freeing herself. ||

ok enough of lore, i will be quiet now

[fossil slate]

Sylv isn't about freeing people

She has already shown she has no loyalties apart from herself, imo she thinks she's in league with the Jailor and he's just using her as a pawn, and we'll either do some overused redemption ark where she's like "omg I'm so sorry o was stupid" and Anduin will be like "it's ok guys forgive her" or we'll hopefully finally kill her

[royal lantern]

bruh

if they pull a redemption thing with sylvanas

a character that killed how many people again

[balmy condor]

since when is this a lore channel

[royal lantern]

i legit just laugh lel

[sand otter]

Sorry Whispyr

[royal lantern]

since the day sin was 15%behind sub

[sand otter]

still have original warcraft on Floppy discs lol

[dry atlas]

Frostmourne got broken in half mate

[sand otter]

exactly

the good part of souls went to the MAW.

she was turned into a banshee, and obtained her body. and after her "bad" part came out of the sword, shes been going down hill.

its all speculation, but blizzard has done worse

[dry atlas]

Only wild gods can come back from the maw if their souls are nurtured

So how will sylvanas have a normal body on azeroth again

[sand otter]

every single soul has gone to the maw. its why shes sending us to the SL, to fix whats going on. for some reason the arbiter isnt judging people correctly.

She wont

[balmy condor]

since when is this a lore channel
@balmy condor

[sand otter]

;.; forgot

Either way she will always be tattooed on me forever xD

[dry atlas]

Did you miss the part where the jailer works with lord denathrius and the dreadlords to break the machinery of death so all souls go to the maw so the jailer can grow powerful to consume azeroths world soul

Ok I'm done now

[sand otter]

xD

[balmy condor]

feel free to fight about your fables in #wow-general

[dry atlas]

Nobody is gonna play sin so this is just offtopic 2.0

[royal lantern]

more like, did he miss the part where she kidnapped and tortures multiple people too get the jailer and herself stronger, and is not sending us into the SL too "fight against him" 🤔

im sorry whisp

[dry atlas]

Yeah it seems like a bad idea to give him even more power if she was planning on defeating him
You could argue this is channel related cause she used poisoned daggers vs saurfang 🤡

[fossil slate]

Whisp gonna have an aneurysm today

[balmy condor]

already did earlier

[sand otter]

sorry i didnt mean to derail the conversation

and im playing Sin still.

[balmy condor]

nah, earlier like 6 hours ago

[sand otter]

no matter how bad bliz nerfs it, it will always be fun for me

[median trout]

I feel that way about outlaw. The attacks into pulling out the peacemaker is satisfying.

And it seems like rogue will always be in a decent spot with the tools. Cloak is always nice and that shroud

[royal lantern]

uhm

honestly

dunno why people say cloak and shroud are always nice

cloak litearlly doesnt work on 90%of the raid mechanics, and shroud is a m+ only thing, beyond ussules for raiding lol

im not saying " reeee rogue bad plz buff" but i wonder why people always think rogue is full with utility, when at this point it has 0 raid utilty at all lol

[dry atlas]

My useless ass fury warrior has more raid utility lmao

[fossil slate]

Evasion, feint, cloak, tricks, cheat death

[dry atlas]

Cheat death

[balmy condor]

you never evasion anything in raid, feint is okay, cloak doesn't work, tricks is whatever, cheat death doesn't soak shit

[grizzled jay]

Evasion bonestorm wdym

[royal lantern]

evasion is more or less a quest and pvp thing

the ammount of times you can use evasion usefull for raiding....

[fossil slate]

Why would you never evasion stuff?

[royal lantern]

you can count that on 1 hand

[fossil slate]

It's still utility

[grizzled jay]

he means there's nothing to Evasion

[royal lantern]

because it doesnt work on 99%?

[balmy condor]

what are you evasioning

the boss after both tanks die?

[royal lantern]

and how is tricks utility lol

[grizzled jay]

the days of Bonestorm being a physical AoE spell you can Dodge are gone

[dry atlas]

• that's self defensives not raid utilities no?

[fossil slate]

Well as an example add charge on igly

[royal lantern]

the only notable thing too use evasion on in bfa was

TD endboss soak shot

thats it

that was evasion for 1 entire expac

[grizzled jay]

huh

[dry atlas]

Utility would be step or sprint

[grizzled jay]

how is the add on ilgy

ever charigng a Rogue

🤔

[dry atlas]

But you don't provide much to a raid aside from damage

[royal lantern]

rogue at this point is dmg

utility?

it has nothing

[grizzled jay]

it allows melee to get to the boss without aggroing pre-pull

🙂

[fossil slate]

I mean at this point it's not damage

[dry atlas]

Eh?

[royal lantern]

what else is there for rogue except dmg lol

[fossil slate]

I'd you're taking a rogue purely for DMG you can take a different class

[grizzled jay]

Rogue is one of the best AoE dps in the game though

[royal lantern]

well, yes, and thats the problem with rogue since bfa

[balmy condor]

@fossil slate precisely why you saw no rogues in nyalotha

[royal lantern]

when rogue is not in the top5

[balmy condor]

:)

[royal lantern]

why bring one

[obtuse cloud]

@sick scarab Actually outlaw is well within the rogue fantasy. Most of wow's classes are inspired by D&D. In fact most modern RPG games are. I think you'll find that one of the rogue subclasses in D&D 5E from sword coast adventures is the Swashbuckler i.e. a pirate.

[royal lantern]

look at nya

and see

like whisper said

rogue is more or less a "dead" class in this tier

cus there is legit 0 reasons too bring one

[dry atlas]

Not everything is inspired by dnd fuck off

[grizzled jay]

the 1 reason is if you really just need raw boss damage

cause Rogue is good at that at least

[obtuse cloud]

Not everything, but D&D came way before most modern games

I mean just look at the names of skills

in wow and compare to D&D

which came before

So my argument stands

[dry atlas]

Right cause all fantasy is a rip off of dnd

[obtuse cloud]

Seriously go take a look now

[dry atlas]

And if it sounds similar then it was copied

[obtuse cloud]

Nope the names are basically the same

for most skills in wow

warrior

[royal lantern]

rogue in dnd is spamming sneak attack tbh

[obtuse cloud]

see barbarian

[dry atlas]

It says DND 5e came out in 2014

That's quite a bit after wow

[obtuse cloud]

yes but there was 3e

and 2e etc

[dry atlas]

But but but

[obtuse cloud]

and most of the reworks to wows skills have come after 2004

[dry atlas]

Peepee poopoo

[obtuse cloud]

outlaw was combat previously

[dry atlas]

I'm aware

[royal lantern]

wow was 1 of the games that made the concept of the agile leather using "rogue" more popular/modern, just saying

[obtuse cloud]

then why bring it up

[dry atlas]

Why bring what up

You're the one that brought it up lmfao

[obtuse cloud]

that DND came out in 2014, I was initially stating that outlaw was likely inspired by D&D

which is highly likely

since most of the wow team have admitted to being huge D&D fans

[balmy condor]

what is it with you guys constantly finding new random topics that have no bearing on sin

[dry atlas]

Outlaw is just a new name for combat they felt more appropriate because it could be confused with being in combat

[royal lantern]

outlaw is a swashbuckler, and swashbuckler is a concept that exsist for a long time now lel

[obtuse cloud]

Someone made a comment about class fantasy

[dry atlas]

And wow was in development since 1999

[obtuse cloud]

I responded with a reasonable claim a

[dry atlas]

You don't have a claim you're just saying they stole everything from dnd

[obtuse cloud]

Sigh

ok

[dry atlas]

Did they steal poisoned daggers too

[obtuse cloud]

w/e why do I even bother

Can't even have a reasonable discussion.

see ya

[dry atlas]

Catch

[wind zenith]

yo chill this is the SIn channel not the spew toxicity channel

[balmy condor]

sin is a very curious channel today

such is life being a bad spec

[royal lantern]

[dry atlas]

They should've kept poisons sin only

[wind zenith]

stop baiting

[dry atlas]

How am I baiting

[royal lantern]

eh, the only problem with poisons rn is

you will use mindnumbing

so you lose your slow

and sub still has a aoe slow

so sin lost the aoe slow too gain mindnumbing, sub just gained

wich is stupid imo

[dry atlas]

Yeah sub and outlaw both gained

[verbal mantle]

[royal lantern]

i mean, dps poisons are w/e

its just a pure flavor thing

without them they would just do 2-3% more physical dmg on melee attacks instead

[dry atlas]

Wound is nice

[royal lantern]

wound is a pvp thing

and pvp is

👉 🚪

[balmy condor]

pvp has its own channel because they're stinky

[royal lantern]

doesnt help that the pvp channel is like wow pvp itself

toxic as fk, people yelling at each other all the time how they are bad at the game

[dry atlas]

PvP so dead people are talking about warmode

[fleet whale]

it looks like nathria is gonna be like HM was for rogues 😦

And people in LImit are gonna say "why bring a rogue, when hunters do everything rogues do, but better"

[proper sage]

can i macro ambush and mutilate together?

[royal lantern]

ask fuu

[proper sage]

@royal lantern can i macro ambush and mut together

[royal lantern]

ask fuu

or whispr

[proper sage]

no whispyr already hates me

[royal lantern]

sorry, im a melee dps brain

i cant even grasp the extremly complicated ranged dps only mechanics

[balmy condor]

@proper sage I hate everyone equally

[royal lantern]

how should i tell you how too macro stuff

[proper sage]

"i HaTe EvErYoNe EqUaLlY"

[balmy condor]

aight I'm starting to hate you a little more

[wind zenith]

laurens not wrong tho

[royal lantern]

give it 4months

and whispr turns into zine

from helpfull too "i hate everyone and everything that can talk"

[strange python]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[shell ivy]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[undone pasture]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[viscid crater]

looked in pins, but when are we using FoK for dps? looking at wrathion fight for spike dmg and spamming Fans and multi bleeding with the combo points. should i just st attack each one or is multi target rotting worth doing in pve situations like that fight?

[grizzled jay]

juicy

[balmy condor]

@viscid crater fok on 3 without eb

[viscid crater]

kk ty

[bleak glacier]

are we still night fae?

[balmy condor]

yes

[lone junco]

neat

the sepsis doesnt give you a subterfuge garrote does it?

[balmy condor]

no

[lone junco]

did assassin get ambush back?

[balmy condor]

yes

ambush is baseline rogue

[bleak glacier]

is kyrian 2nd to night fae?

[balmy condor]

yes

[fleet whale]

note these rankings are done with high renown

at the start, it probably won't matter too much what you choose first

[weak oak]

Whats our rotation looking like for pre patch

or is there a guide somewhere

[bright lintel]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[bright lintel]

alternatively 1st pin

[balmy condor]

pog

beat me to it

its basically the same thing as its been for the last 6 years tho

just maintain everything, hit tb (or shiv now) on cd

and win

[bright lintel]

shiv is our or old toxic blade

[weak oak]

yeah i have the the basics, just seeing when to use slice and dice and ambush

[balmy condor]

slice all the time

ambush with blindside

openers in the guide

[night vale]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow junco]

!SIMS

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[hollow junco]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[tame ravine]

More of a theory question, is there a reason that haste is valued so low in Pre-patch*?

[royal lantern]

lucid dreams

@tame ravine

[tame ravine]

Oh okay

[uneven summit]

!covenants

:(

[fading wigeon]

In pins

[pliant apex]

is it just me or assa is better for world pvp and bgs compared to sub?

[balmy condor]

Probably not

But also a question for the #pvp nerds

I would think sub cc is just too good

But idk

[echo gust]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[fleet whale]

in world pvp and bgs all three rogue specs are good really

assassination is easier to execute your damage, so that might be why you're getting better results

[pliant apex]

sub is just too hard man tbh

the spec requires work

lot of work

compared to assa, hands down

[balmy condor]

not really

its just a different style

sin you have to maintain dots, sub you just hit ss/evisc and smash cds

[pliant apex]

yeah

but killing mobs/leveling, sub seems so much work

assa is straightforward

[jovial haven]

you just slteath, cheap shot, ss, evis, restealth, next mob

[balmy condor]

cheap shot usually isn't worth it

but yeah

ss evisc move on

[fading wigeon]

What do you find difficult as sub artmaker?

[royal lantern]

i really dont know why people say sub is hard

use symbols and dance on cd and togheter

congratz

thats 90%of the spec

[vital haven]

its harder than sin and outlaw

slightly

[royal lantern]

well,yeha, but dunno why some make such a big deal out of it lol

[lofty pecan]

guys dont mind him, he is the guy that doesnt wanna read guide

[royal lantern]

use rupture and SnD outside of dance, use dance when you have a stack of it, use symbols on cd, use symbols togheter with dance

i mean, thats sub

[balmy condor]

or, we could not be toxic

[vital haven]

that edit though

lel

[royal lantern]

bad wording^^

[soft belfry]

Is it pretty close between necro and kyrian skills?

[royal lantern]

all rogue covenants are pretty close

the "top"ones rn are nightfae and kyrian

[soft belfry]

cool, i like the idea of bone spike. im not bleeding edge so im sure ill be fine

[royal lantern]

honestly, 99%could pick w/e covenant they want and would be fine

so just pick what you want^^

[soft belfry]

cool, not a fan of the leather set for necro though

[royal lantern]

dont need too use it

[balmy condor]

ye

honestly surprised on the power level between soulbinds and conduits

would've thought conduits strong

but soulbinds are pretty strong tbh

[soft belfry]

i wonder if that wa their intention, or just happened to work out that way with how much they've had to change the actual abilities

but im starting to think nothing was intended at this point with everything the xpac has gone through

[balmy condor]

I would assume intention

[royal lantern]

wasnt that cus of player feedback

aka

players complained about conduit farming etc.....

[balmy condor]

cause they can always just double a conduit number

[royal lantern]

---->they took power out of conduits

even thought people dont like too hear it but

blizzard DOES listen

sometimes they even listen too much

its just that quite often they also do stuff in their own way, and people dont like it

+it also doesnt help that the wow community is always complaining loud and doesnt know what it wants

[uneven summit]

Out of curiosity, what covenant are people planning on going?

[mental laurel]

Definitely Necrolord. I like the theme of it. Only wish the shield didn't have such a long cast timer on it...

[uneven summit]

Only one person knows what covenant 😂?

[dry atlas]

necro on my rogue

[balmy condor]

between necro and kyrian for me

[uneven summit]

Hmmm i really wanted venthyr, but night fae, ambush assa looks fun

[lofty pecan]

join NF the winterqueen needs you

[balmy condor]

venthyr isn't very exciting for me, and night fae without vanish is kinda meh imo

oh boy a free ambush

not really my thing

[lofty pecan]

and you get to become a farmer once more like MoP

[vale quest]

is assassin good now on beta?

[balmy condor]

no

[lofty pecan]

behind sub

[uneven summit]

Only takes a good assa player to win over sub players

[balmy condor]

yeah, until you see a good sub player

[lofty pecan]

a bad sub player

[slender berry]

or a decent one

lel

[uneven summit]

I played assa even when sub dominated in legion and zul in bfa

Still win 90% of the time

[balmy condor]

yeah, until you see a good sub player
@balmy condor

[dry atlas]

that was a long time ago in a different game balance setting

[slender berry]

there is literally no way you beat a sub rogue on zul if you only look at boss damage maybe if you look at overall dmg and pad the adds

[jovial haven]

i dont think sin was ever 17% behind sub in legion, but my memory of logs from then is not teh greatest

[balmy condor]

if you were winning on mythic zul as sin

[slender berry]

unless it was a twink who switched on his rogue just for that boss and had no gear and no idea what he was doing

[balmy condor]

then you're probably lying

[uneven summit]

Never won on zul to be fair :P wasent possible

[dry atlas]

lying andy

[slender berry]

but yea youre right on a casual level you can outdps anyone with any specc

[uneven summit]

In legion was what i was refering to, still playrd assa on zul

[balmy condor]

anything is possible when you're playing with bad players

[dry atlas]

big true, i was topping keys as feral cause people were bad, doesnt mean its a good spec

[sharp wren]

Hey yall. Looking to jump back into rogue/assassination for shadowlands. But heard it isnt performing well, is that true?

[lofty pecan]

very true

[halcyon oak]

It probably just needs an aura tuning which will come at some point I'd imagine

[grizzled jay]

I expect +5% aura tuning Mythic week

[shut garnet]

how come night fae sims best

outside of like hurr durr cus numbers

is there any rotational 5head with vanish going on that im not seeing

[grizzled jay]

Not enough to make Sin the best, but just a little nudge to see if it gets 'fixed' by just getting more iLvl

[low girder]

is there any rotational 5head with vanish going on that im not seeing
not really. it really is just numbers. the soulbind is pretty decent and sepsis dot hits hard

the free stealth ability doesn't really have much interaction, we just get an ambush out of it

oh and sepsis is buffed by shiv i guess

just not the last tick, currently

[shut garnet]

guessing that’s a bug or?

[low girder]

ye, prolly

it was like that before i believe, when the last tick actually mattered

[frigid kestrel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vagrant pawn]

what is the current stat priority for rogue

[balmy condor]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

^ those

[vagrant pawn]

thank you very much!

[balmy condor]

np

[shadow tulip]

Are we bottom of the barrel now guys? (beta)

[balmy condor]

we're bottom barrel rogue spec, yes

[vagrant pawn]

whats the best atm

for raid

[balmy condor]

sub/outlaw depending on situation

[shadow tulip]

Did a few dungeons on beta, sometimes barely beating tanks

[balmy condor]

outlaw for more cleave/aoe, sub for single target

[shadow tulip]

While mages and locks steamrolling shit

[vagrant pawn]

i enjoy sub and sin

sin is most fun imo

being a former feral

[balmy condor]

yeah its just numbers

[vagrant pawn]

sub is fun as well though

yeahhhhh ik tough

[balmy condor]

no cross-spec tuning yet

[vagrant pawn]

outlaw i have yet to try

[balmy condor]

tbh

[vagrant pawn]

how hard is it to learn

[balmy condor]

mega easy

[shadow tulip]

I'm just pissed

[balmy condor]

press blade flurry, smash sinister strike

win game

[shadow tulip]

They killed melee aoe with target cap, while keeping ranged almost uncapped

[elfin gulch]

I've been trying to improve my dmg and reading guides but Im always around the bottom of the damage charts when doing dungeons even by lower leveled people, though I think the scaling has something to do with it, am I just bad or is that normal since rogues dont have much cc?

[shadow tulip]

And buffing them up to heavens

[balmy condor]

@elfin gulch leveling, or beta, or what

what spec

[elfin gulch]

Leveling im at 48 though so around the end, and Assasination.

[balmy condor]

ye

without any SS gonna suck a little

[shadow tulip]

Don't be bothered by it, in BFA

[balmy condor]

we're reliant on azerite atm

[elfin gulch]

Ooh

Atleast shadowlands is coming, I've been told not to go after the azerite atm

[shadow tulip]

Wellll

You should at least a bit

[elfin gulch]

Yeah for weapons I was told

[balmy condor]

literally not worth

[shadow tulip]

Just don't burn yourself

[elfin gulch]

Alright I'll keep that in mind

[balmy condor]

azerite disables in SL zones

actually not worth your time

[elfin gulch]

Im just getting self consious since my damage is asscrack qwq

[drifting cloud]

azerites are just stat sticks in 8 days

and even if you get hc ilvl ones youll replace them by like 54

[elfin gulch]

Alright

will they matter if I cant get shadowlands soon?

[shadow tulip]

I don't remember about azerites, but I barely replaced anything while leveling

I have mythic gear tho

[elfin gulch]

Or is it just all the way around useless no matter the content

When SL comes out

[balmy condor]

well if you can't play sl when it comes out

you're playing with yourself

so it won't matter

[shadow tulip]

Well

[elfin gulch]

Alright ty

[shadow tulip]

I got a movement speed set

With 3 azerites with 7-8% movement speed

So I can speed up legacy raid farms

I'm farming a lot of tmogs

[elfin gulch]

@_@ I cant wait to get Void elf so I can just run over to a warlock lmao

I have no idea if Im bad or just being messed over by the azurite problem

or both

lol

[shadow tulip]

Mabye mostly the latter

You joined in past last minute 😄

[elfin gulch]

x_x atleast they'll be gone soon!

[shadow tulip]

Yea

[elfin gulch]

Atleast during christmas I can get SL so its not gonna be a long wait

[shadow tulip]

I found leveling SL on sub best tho

[elfin gulch]

ill probably be on my wl by then in all honesty

but yea I heard sub was really good for SL

but I wanted to try out assasination

[shadow tulip]

For leveling, by far

A fucking huge mile

Ambush ambush, evi, dead

[elfin gulch]

Lol

Ill try it out for my last few levels

Maybe

not sure

ill switch back over in like... an hour

[balmy condor]

sin just fucking blows at leveling

dots and no energy

make it pretty painful

[shadow tulip]

That's waht is bad in SL too

Both assassination and subtitely is sooooo low on energy

My hair turns grey

[balmy condor]

wait

sub isn't slow

sub has so much energy

[shadow tulip]

Felt kinda sluggish to me

Outlaw felt better energy-wise to me

[balmy condor]

that's REALLY weird to me

like its a struggle to not overcap energy as sub for me

[elfin gulch]

Is there any ability to lower vendettas cooldown at some point?

[shadow tulip]

Essence

[balmy condor]

legendary in shadowlands

its not very good though

cause it doesn't go low enough to line up 2 vendettas for 1 vanish

[elfin gulch]

Essense? But damn.

[shadow tulip]

Only on Azeroth tho

[elfin gulch]

x__x

[balmy condor]

also vop isn't great either

[shadow tulip]

Vision of perfection if I'm correct?

[balmy condor]

which is the essence

because again

doesn't reduce enough

[shadow tulip]

But if you gonna get SL only around Xmas time

Might be worht getting it for outlaw

it's good for outlaw

[balmy condor]

yeah

[worthy slate]

Is azerite as a system not carrying over to SL?

Like hyunbee was saying I’m also ass at damage when tracked in dungeons

[balmy condor]

no

its not

neither are essences

nor the heart itself

[worthy slate]

But I’m level 50 with 51 az level so I think I just suck

[dry atlas]

It's not about sucking, you get azerite as you play the game and obviously you haven't played a lot this expansion

[worthy slate]

I mean I don’t feel bad since I started in early October

What’s an end game rotation though? I think that’s my biggest struggle.

[fleet whale]

yeah, azerite at this point is irrelevant

a long with essences

[dry atlas]

For now just enjoy some old content and wait for shadowlands in a few days

[fleet whale]

were all gonna be on equal ground soon

[balmy condor]

end game rotation has been maintain everything, dump into envenom, use everything on cooldown

[worthy slate]

Usually pop stealth to garrote to ambush/cheap shot, then move into rupture at 5 combo, slice and dice, and just wail on mutilate and envenom waiting for dots to reproc

[balmy condor]

for a long time

[worthy slate]

Ah fair enough

[fleet whale]

we had dispatch procs to react to in MoP and WoD

[worthy slate]

I guess azerite really really makes a big difference in output, huh

[balmy condor]

cheap shot is like

never used

in pve

I don't even have it on my bars tbh

[worthy slate]

I like to cheap shot into kidney shot on throw away mobs for fun

[fleet whale]

in M+ if you play sub, with shot in the dark talent

[balmy condor]

I've never had any need to cheap shot