hoping to atleast be playable
#assassination
dusk bone
latent gazelle
It’s not like the spec is broken.
balmy condor
Playable for sure
Optimal, viable? Not currently
Sub in bfa was playable, but it was just numerically not good enough to keep up
Same thing happening with sin in beta atm
latent gazelle
^^ if your not going for wf race or pushin cutting edge play spec/class you want 🤷♂️.
balmy condor
I mean I agree
But you’re still going to have trouble pugging if you’re playing a spec that’s worse
Just like it was difficult to pug keys as sub
And some people want to be optimal, even just as a heroic raider, because of personal pride or whatever
Which I can also understand
latent gazelle
Definitely
balmy condor
But in general, any spec will be able to clear high enough content
dusk bone
when this was anounced ? 😄
celest drift
dusk bone
nice
celest drift
yeah it's alright, but sin need more than that atm
strange python
That's why being in a guild is cool. They are typically more okay with playing non meta specs
balmy condor
Yeah guilds are the way to go
dusk bone
sadly sometimes its hard to find one if you trying to manage work/life environment by life i mean playing wow cuz you know wow is life
balmy condor
Casual guilds
sterile jackal
tiny toxic blade viable now? xD
sterile jackal
well, there must be a reason for this lego to exist
base +150%, lego +350%, vendetta 30%, EP 10%
powerfull
echo gust
ive decided i do not want to use sub in SL
fleet whale
i mean it will be a pretty big hit every 25 seconds
fleet whale
just depends if that big hit every 25 seconds will be worth enough
it's like our own version of cold heart, but cold heart also scaled with frost DK mastery
TTB should deal pure nature damage
echo gust
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
low girder
Moroes is back 
azure sphinx
frail fossil
i mean
sin got some potential
like a lot of potential actuallu
idk i wanted to go sub for raid prog but i'm actually thinking more about going sin
fleet whale
it's currently tuned 10-15% lower than sub
if you are pushing for progression, with that kind of gap, you go sub
frail fossil
i mean how it is
you go outlaw
no sub
like outlaw in the sheet is like barely behind sub
and goes off in 2+ target situations
strange python
sub and OL are fairly close, just weighted in different directions
frail fossil
so outlaw looses like 150 dps compared to sub in st
strange python
Sin needs a boost
frail fossil
but absolutely shatters sub when it comes to aoe
i think sin can work better than sub with a buff
frail fossil
true but like you now loose st dmg by aoeing right
while sin funnels dmg into primary targets in a like 3 mobs situation
cuz ur dots tick more and more energy
so you're not wasting any boss damage
balmy condor
I think you’re thinking about it too hard
latent gazelle
Sub still funnels into a primary better then the other 2..
frail fossil
yeah i am lmfao @balmy condor
jagged axle
so sub has better single target rn in SL?
balmy condor
@jagged axle by quite a bit yes
jagged axle
😔 this sucks
frail fossil
dude i think there's still hope
like a lil sin buff
and you'll be fine
and tbh i think outlaw is the move
strange python
out of curiosity, what is the real goal? should sub/sin have their own niches? or just different playstyle only?
frail fossil
rather than sub
strange python
like sub pure st but sin split? or what would actually generally make people happier?
frail fossil
i think like having their own niches is nice personally
like i love changing specs for different fights
so you're just like taking advantage of each spec
but it's a lot of grinding so i wont blame people that just want one spec to be like better in raid by quite far than the other
strange python
I mean, niche playstyles I think is what I prefer, but really we have 3 specs that do the same thing just with different flavour
frail fossil
but like in the beginning of a tier you want to play the thing that's the most versatile right, and outlaw just fits nicely into that niche cuz it's not that far behind sub in st, but just goes off whenever there's like 2 or more targets
and Huntsman like the third boss is actually like a 3 mob fight i think in mythic, so it's not like u have to wait a long time before outlaw being in it's strong spot right
jagged axle
so why did they absolutely gut assass and spread it's organs across both other specs
frail fossil
i mean assa works fine it's just tuning really
problem is no one on earth fucking played assa
so we have significantly less exemples than with sub or outlaw
balmy condor
Why do people keep acting like sin got gutted
strange python
idk
strange python
it's just undertuned
balmy condor
And all of wod
jagged axle
wod was different okay we had dispatch and that one special boy damage copy talent
it was poggar
frail fossil
even slightly better with alacrity and basically toxic blade being baseline
jagged axle
sub was beating sin's ass in DPS in HFC wasn't it
balmy condor
Well yeah but “gutted”
Is a really weird way to say “stayed the same for the last 8 years”
frail fossil
sin is fine i think
strange python
alacritiy is a shitter of a talent, it's too good compared to everything else it's ever tiered with
jagged axle
i mean i guess i use the wrong word but what else is sin getting that's new
strange python
but if they ever fix alac they'll do it by nerfing alac instead of boosting other things
frail fossil
which make sin feels better to play right
strange python
they should ahve put shrouded suff on that tier
balmy condor
Sin got slice
jagged axle
sub getting that new black powder bomb, along wth poisons back and a couple other things
every spec got slice
balmy condor
Sin baseline is perfectly fine
balmy condor
The talents need some help
frail fossil
yeah i agree
balmy condor
But as a core sin is perfectly fine
frail fossil
playing blindside kinda pog tho
balmy condor
It’s literally only bad right now because of damage
frail fossil
yeah
jagged axle
you think they'll tune it up tho
balmy condor
Yes
jagged axle
?
balmy condor
I do
frail fossil
i think
strange python
they will, I have hope
jagged axle
alright bro I'll trust you 😩
strange python
we're not shaman
frail fossil
and even if they dont i think it'll scale very well
like if not on the first tier
assa will be good a bit later on
strange python
kek
frail fossil
sometime i just do be saying dumb shit
jagged axle
must've missed an argument earlier huh
frail fossil
it's cope ok 
jagged axle
we have vlad ok we scale
strange python
ok @balmy condor I think I get it now, it's not if there's fact or not to it at all, you just hear it literally all the time in a way that people suggest "it's ok because"
I understand, hearing that constantly must be draining as fuck
frail fossil
yeah i mean that was stupid tbh
but i genuinely think assa got some big potential like idk
just a feeling lmfao
strange python
it does, but it shouldn't have to rely on anything like that
frail fossil
yeah true
strange python
it's like, at a job you "put in the hard yards for payout"
but this shits a game
it SHOUDL be fun all the time
frail fossil
lmfaoo
strange python
lol
frail fossil
true true
i mean not doing dmg doesn't mean it's no fun right just turn off the meter and never look at the logs
strange python
but noone enjoys being sub par
frail fossil
yeah i was joking
like it just sucks playing something when you know u can play something that is miles better
no matter what u do
strange python
especially right after sin was in a "good spot" (if you ignore all the theological problems of borrowed power)
frail fossil
kinda awkward that they fixed assa aoe by literally just borrowed power
any god bless fuu for that sheet been helping me a whole lot
obtuse anvil
believe in sin like sin believes in you
frail fossil
😤
obtuse anvil
if sub can survive the zul-hammer and outlaw can survive the great legion purge
sin will come back
strange python
I miss sets in a way, wether you see them as borrowed power or not I liked the way they actively changed your playstyle, I just wish more of them were viable at any given point. I originally hoped that was what azerite gear was going to be "choose x/y tier set bonus from this list of "who's who" bonuses"
obtuse anvil
goodguy sin, the old stalwart
strange python
instead of "push x for added damage"
strange python
ss was legit
frail fossil
ss was nice yeah
vital haven
Don’t worry boys sin has the late game, just scale
balmy condor
I caught up :)
frail fossil
did u found anything valuable tho
fleet whale
I don't feel that sin got gutted, i just think what it got in SL is a little underwhelming
numbers aside
balmy condor
Yeah I mean I want new stuff
fleet whale
our "newest" thing is blindside being changed to affect ambush
which is pretty nice.. but it's also a talent
frail fossil
just a lil drop of tuning mr blizzard
fleet whale
our two last talent rows are still a joke
fleet whale
Sin just kind of feels like an afterthought to blizz sadly for sl, once again numbers aside
zinc kite
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet whale
like i would say like 80% of rogue attention during SL development went to sub
15% to outlaw
and 5% to sin
balmy condor
But I’m not mad with what I have
frail fossil
no
serene basin
hope we dont get back to the start of bfa kind of underwhelming
frail fossil
but like if u like sin i'd suggest u to stick with it tbh
balmy condor
sin was popping at the start of bfa
serene basin
if we still get the medium number im cool with it
balmy condor
serene basin
@balmy condor i meant comparing to outlaw, didnt write it, lol
balmy condor
depends what we're looking at
frail fossil
yeah
balmy condor
but the start of bfa was very very friendly to sin
serene basin
well
balmy condor
SS was very strong
serene basin
it always depends
strange python
sins still in a good spot design wise, it just needs to get lifted up
frail fossil
i mean tbh i'd argue outlaw is kinda the strongest atm but i think a celerity nerf will change that
balmy condor
like sin was the top spec in uldir
strange python
or the other thing in that row
serene basin
poison bomb shouldve stayed in legion
frail fossil
never played legion oof
serene basin
rofl
balmy condor
an aoe finisher would be nice
serene basin
legion was the best about rogues
balmy condor
outside of CT
serene basin
poison bomb procs get you top dps nevermind where you got into the fight
strange python
it triggers me
frail fossil
lmfao
frail fossil
i mean crimson got no interaction with anything on sin
like it doesn't work with exsanguinate
doesn't give u energy back
serene basin
just cp dumb
frail fossil
it's just there
frail fossil
i like cp dumb
serene basin
intentional pun
strange python
hold up though, there's venom rush and alac, wtf else is in that tier?
I literally can't remember
frail fossil
no idea
strange python
oh right
frail fossil
ooh yeah
strange python
rofl
serene basin
lul
peak jungle
Weekly check in.. any word on much needed assassination buffs?
frail fossil
peak jungle
Rip, see ya then
frail fossil
tbh as rogue stands i would say sub is a bit overhyped, sin is a bit undertuned, and outlaw seems to be the most consistent choice to me but relies on celerity
strange python
legit though, if something like ss was alongside alac, would it be worthwhile? or still a joke tier?
proper sage
outlaw doesnt rely on celerity
strange python
yeah true
frail fossil
what's ss ?
strange python
put ss in exangs place
frail fossil
that's actually 6head
strange python
or rush yeah
frail fossil
even tho i'm not sure what ss is
balmy condor
shrouded suff
frail fossil
ooh yeah
balmy condor
the azerite trait sin used literally all xpac
strange python
I still miss the days of venomrush/dashing actually being good
frail fossil
yeah i got it now
balmy condor
I like zoldyck
strange python
yeah zold is sick
frail fossil
i mean i think sin is actually kinda sick
balmy condor
sin having an execute is a niche I want to see
frail fossil
just talent issues
balmy condor
bleeding/poisoning to death
strange python
same
frail fossil
yeah
balmy condor
has a good synergy lore wise
frail fossil
it plays well into class fantasy
strange python
#completeagreement
strange python
we should shoot for dev spots
actually scratch that
I like actually making money
frail fossil
i do not think you would ever want me as dev
OOOOOOF
tfw blizzard employees must be crunching as we speak
frail fossil
and you get free perks from the blizzard shop
this was actually evil lmfao
like employee having as bonus things from blizz shop instead of like money
indigo thicket
did that shiv buff change anything?
shy dust
You’d use shiv either way as assassination come SL so no
fallow otter
I've been thinking about it, bliz don't want sin to be good at m plus
Or they wouldn't be putting out utility abilities in our dps rotation
balmy condor
neat topaz
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dusk zephyr
hello, i will be maining an assasination rogue for shadowlands. I was wondering for M+ and pvp would be the best covenant for the spec?
balmy condor
M+ atm is night fae with kyrian a close second
pvp hasn't really established a meta yet so not sure
night fae seems good
dusk zephyr
yeah i ws thinking night fae too.. but the nerf of the vanish makes me question it now lol
balmy condor
you can still get a cheap shot out of it
balmy condor
and the dot probably is a lot of pressure
I'm a pve andy
I would like to go necro personally
but I'd be pretty happy with kyrian or nightfae as well
flagellation isn't really my thing
dusk zephyr
yeah flagellation isnt so good in my eyes
balmy condor
I just don't like the razor coral gameplay personally
dusk zephyr
honestly now that i think about it. night fae ability is pretty good. extra ambush and for pvp you get an extra stun
i think i may be leaning towards that
balmy condor
well night fae atm is good because of conduits + the dot damage
the extra ability is kinda whatever in pve
balmy condor
well ye
dusk zephyr
i need to read more into the conduits as well not too sure
balmy condor
nimble garnet
how high is sepsis damage on its 1.5 cd compared to bone spike?
balmy condor
Higher
low girder
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
balmy condor
You can look at the html links in that spreadsheet
The sims will tell you how much each does
In the report at least
nimble garnet
thanks!, i honestly just like the idea of the doomblade bleed mechanics but as all the info states not sure
and bone spike is a bleed itself, kinda why i was asking
balmy condor
Ye
nimble garnet
@balmy condor think its worth a try ? i like that fantasy/ playstyle
nimble garnet
spike isnt THAT behind fae
nimble garnet
wonder if such numebrs are even accontable
nimble garnet
i can say thats fine for a not so tryhard mythic guild
balmy condor
Yeah
nimble garnet
u a cool dude whisp
balmy condor
Ty ty I try
low girder
oof, aight
balmy condor
I can check again later
low girder
yeah i was just curious since it's fairly close rn
lyric veldt
Didnt they buff CT when they added the aoe cap?
balmy condor
yes
fleet whale
day one i don't think it will matter that much whatever covenant you pick
fallow otter
I need peak DMG for CE race
This is the answer I need when the time comes
CE gonna be well dead for when NF takes over
vagrant sphinx
you will most prob go necrolord cuz of the lead by example trait
and switch later
wind zenith
okay zero IQ question time for me
assuming they tweak our numbers to be more inline with outlaw and sub -- what is the AOE potential of assasination
IE does the kit lend itself to m+ viability if numbers are improved
slender berry
itll be worse than the other 2 speccs still
warm parcel
Enough for me to care? Na
Id just rather not spec OL for my weekly
And not like this kills the group
wind zenith
Oh i dont really care about MDI -- i just wasnt sure if would be kinda like legion where assasination poison bombs were hilariously fun
slender berry
thats assuming they give assa a overall % increase to get the single target in line , ofc they can always make specific changes to buff their aoe potential
nobody can predict that
wind zenith
yeah that was basically my thought -- I didnt see how fixing their ST would really give them much AOE love
slender berry
also for m+ it also depends alot on how you play the dungeon what pulls you do etc
wind zenith
ye
i just remember the unadulterated joy of getting two bomb procs on a pac in legion
and was chasing that high
wind zenith
black powder and secret techniques
but im a brainlet that hasnt played sin in forever so i could be missing something
tropic ocean
i still dont see how they still will be better after tweaking
we can't know that
currently
5 points: [(6% of Attack power) * 5] damage black powder
5 points: [(4.68% of Attack power) * 6] plus [(11.7% of Attack power) * 6] over 12 sec
crimson tempest
🤷
wind zenith
oh sure -- thats perfectly fair thats why i was asking the question
im more familiar with outlaw and sub in recent years then assa
tropic ocean
but in the end you can just play what you prefer the most
unless u are pushing r1s, wf or mdi
wind zenith
oh absoutely
i just really like all the specs right now and am having an impossible time deciding
haha
tropic ocean
in last season sub was terrible number wise
yet ppl pushed it to >4k rio
which was a ~ 1.2k rogue ranking in the world so
🤷
wind zenith
yeah agreed! rogue is in a weird spot where all the specs are fun and good enough
which is a cool place to be
but makes picks hard
wind zenith
yeah for sure
cloud prism
Im a new rogue player. And iv seen ppl saying all specs have their uses and stuff, and i get that. But what spec is currently looking as the stronges for raids in SL in general?
frail fossil
it is harde to know for sure
since well we dont have the raid out yet right
but sub and outlaw both look like very strong pick
both being good at different things
there's no like overall best choice
so just pick the one u think u can play the best
rich yew
All depends on the level you play on, all 3 can do both. You might argue that sub or sin are better for pvp and outlaw better for m+. But for 90% of the players all 3 specs can do everything. Whatever you feel most comfortable playing is probably the best spec for you
torn cypress
awesome thank you. Would you say any spec was easier to play for a newer rogue player? or is that pretty similar also?
torn cypress
cheers 🙂
frail fossil
but try the 3 and learn the one you enjoy the most at first glance kinda
cuz i mean no class in wow are that hard to play some are just more friendly
frail fossil
it's toolkit is great
but it is tuned pretty low
but if you think you play better assa than outlaw
then for sure
go assa
lucid ruin
I mean I can just as easily play sub, I'd rather play assa if I can
not a huge fan of having to rely on ShD for everything
frail fossil
yeah well if u prefer playing assa i'd suggest u go for it
i think assa is looking really good actually
just a bit of tuning
niya is weaker than dreamweaver ?
vestal wren
With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):
dusk moat
guys havent played much prepacth but on fortified i use this
shuld i skip versa`gems
for crit or
royal lantern
just sim
dusk moat
yeah but u can push now
royal lantern
push what lmao
royal lantern
10days till sl
if you wanna waste gold for gems
just do it
i dont see a reason why a reasonable human should do it
dusk moat
gold? loooooooool they cost nothing got like 20 of each gem in bags
royal lantern
still 20 gold wasted for something that has no real use^^
royal lantern
im litearlly in the game rn
dusk moat
then its not a waste if i want to play with it xD
need to be on top!!!
even in prepatch
havent played 5 weeks build up hunger
frail fossil
I mean u play wow cuz u wanna have fun right
Prepatch rio is still a meme but it can be fun
So it's worth investing in it
fast wharf
In the pinned messages it says that we should prioritize haste in SL but that haste in the prepatch is among the least important stats. Do people agree on this or what's going on?
frail fossil
Because of how scaling works in bfa
I think
Like a lot of spec atm bis stat is just vers
balmy condor
Nah, it’s because of essences
fast wharf
but either way it's intentional that there happens a "stat change" for us moving from prepatch to the actual SL
fast wharf
All right, just wanted to make sure, thanks!
balmy condor
Yup yup
lofty junco
why is assa for prepatch and SL regarded as rather weak?
balmy condor
Sin in prepatch is fine
In shadowlands it just doesn’t do enough damage
Also loses ss/Eb in keys, which really hits m+ viability
lofty junco
so u are probably forced to go sub+outlaw?
balmy condor
Depends on what content you’re doing and if we’re seeing more buffs
If you’re just gonna do 1 weekly key with your guildies and do heroic raids
Play what you want
If you’re pushing and trying to pug like 23’s and push CE
Then probably need to think about not sin
lucid ruin
What if you're trying to keep a high Rio but but really pushing for max keys
lofty junco
sub just feels weird somehow
lucid ruin
Like just doing lots of upper tier keys but not huge ones
lucid ruin
Sub feels kinda gross to play because ShD is so important
frail fossil
Play outlaw then
lofty junco
can't imagine that outlaw would be good for raiding
balmy condor
Shadow dance is arguably more important for sin
frail fossil
It will lol
balmy condor
Outlaw is currently competitive single target
frail fossil
It is smithly behind sub
balmy condor
And wins on cleave and aoe
lucid ruin
I don't mind outlaw but I fucking hate pistol shot procs lol
lofty junco
i loved the pre legion sub with their bleeding mastery and all, but can't tolerate it anymore since legion
frail fossil
Yeah i'd advise u to go outlaw tbh
balmy condor
Then either outlaw or pray for sin buffs
frail fossil
Unless u hate outlaw
lofty junco
i wouldn't call it hate. i just don't like what they transformed combat in. it just don't realy suits rogue playstyle in my opinion, but i can tolerate to play it^^
frail fossil
Alright well
balmy condor
All depends on what you enjoy and who you play with tbh. I will always suggest you play what you enjoy first, and play what you must second
balmy condor
It’s still a game
frail fossil
Still feel bad to know u could be doing more if u play another spec tho
lofty junco
yeah but even if its a game, u don't want to be at the bottom of the details^^
balmy condor
You won’t be at the bottom dw
frail fossil
So you wont be bottom
lofty junco
but who plays SV anyway?^^
frail fossil
Yeah i mean you're more likely to encounter a war than a survival
lofty junco
or some firemages that think they are still OP^^
bright lintel
yo I have heard some of you heretics are giving shit to SV?
frail fossil
SV is fun af tbh
cerulean magnet
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
bright lintel
furious typing intensifies
lofty junco
when was the last time u saw a SV with bigger dps then a tank?^^
tbh i would love to try out ret or dk. not so shure after the nerfs
strange python
When's the last time you saw a SV in raid?
strange python
dry atlas
gives me an aneurysm when someone calls it "retri"
distant cypress
Retro is what cool kids call ret paladins
distant cypress
wind zenith
we are inat rogues and dont forget it
lofty junco
tropic ocean
when was the last time u saw a SV with bigger dps then a tank?^^
@lofty junco right because SV had dps issues 🤣🤣🤣
lofty junco
hmm if we are the assassin channel. anyone tried valhalla yet?^^
royal lantern
SV had higher dps then mm/bm for quite some time, even in bfa
people hate/meme on it
and have no clue about SV
lmao
the only problem SV has is simply
its a melee dps spec in a class with 2 ranged dps options
and we play world of rangedcraft
it has nothing too do with dps lol
+the fact that the biggest ape can play BM and do competetive dmg, cus it litearlly does 70%of its dmg with autohits+pet melee attacks
lofty junco
wait bm do something besides auto attack+pet attacks?^^
pastel acorn
Sometimes kill command lights up
proper sage
SV is quite legit as a dps in SL as it stands rn
I've been watching undad play it and he's always topping (or just trailing) dps meters
frail fossil
yeah man
undad kinda owns tbh
my rl been doing pretty well in prepatch keys with sv
i think the main problem is that there's no logical reason to ever pick sv over like bm or mm
royal lantern
well, thats the problem classes with ranged and melee options have
why would you ever take melee
when ranged is just better by default
lofty junco
well rogue seems to be fine thanks to their utility
wind zenith
yeah but how gross is it that a class with as much utility as rogue is 'fine'
thats kinda problematic for the game
lofty junco
well yeah u probably need big dps+utility or massive utility to be viable
balmy condor
in terms of raid utility, rogue isn't actually that crazy
balmy condor
its basically just the cc and shroud provided in m+
balmy condor
I think its a little overstated is all
lofty junco
shadow is the other way around
warm olive
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wind zenith
sure i agree with that whispyr -- its still more then many meeles tho
and imo it really has to come down to nerfing ranged classes utility
idk how else they can do it
dry atlas
ranged just wins by being ranged
wind zenith
ye
lofty junco
yeah and bm wins in both with beeing a ranged melee
royal lantern
why do people always say that
all ranged have close too 0 punishment for movment
cus you have a high amount of procs/instant cast you use while moving
like
lofty junco
yeah? played demo or shadow?^^
royal lantern
play frost, you dont care about movment cus 1flurry proc means you can move for 3seconds while using your main dps skills
wind zenith
even shadow, which is considered low movement, still has some cast and move options
royal lantern
shadow is low movment cus priest has 0movment abilitys baseline
holy/disc litearlly need a talent for a movment ability
but all casters have instant cast that are usable while moving
pastel acorn
Ele is still fairly turret like outside spiritwalk
If low on maelstrom and without a proc they can pretty much only frost shock which is pretty noodle.
quaint sequoia
no sin buffs this week either, my hope is running out 
tropic ocean
keep calm
fleet whale
I want some adjustment's to our level 45 and 50 talent rows over buffs
but that's just me
royal lantern
fleet whale
i find it hard to believe that a blizz dev took a hard look at those two rows
fleet whale
and was like "yeah, this looks good"
frail fossil
yeah lmfao
fleet whale
it's kind of odd since assassin was fairly popular through all of bfa and legion
yet blizz has almost ignored it in development
like look at this improved poison perk "your poisons have a 100% chance to apply when in stealth"
OMG SO AMAZING BLIZZ, SO HYPE!!!
wind zenith
So the two things I find confusing is how poison bomb isn’t just baselined for how neat it is. And what in gods name does that poison perk do and how did they think it did anything
low girder
!bugs
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue
low girder
well, technically it doesn't do anything
as it's still broken
as it has been for months
wind zenith
Sure but it’s anti climatic even as qol
unkempt oracle
qol is almost never climactic though. its an improvement, but sometimes its so goddam insignificant it might as well not exist
fleet whale
it's not exactly much for QoL either
it would've been more useful if AP still existed
mental trout
so whats up with M+ since the prepatch? whats the new equivalent to a 15+?
fleet whale
i imagine early SL 15's will be a little more difficult
balmy condor
Ye for sure
fleet whale
gear will be low, and expansion systems will be closest to their weakest point
some of it will depend on how difficult the SL dungeons are as well
i'm not sure if there is gonna be a dungeon like S1 Shrine or S1 KR
grizzled jay
early 15s wont be carryable
all 5 people gotta actually know what they are doing
they are pretty hard on beta at least
especially Storming weeks lol
grizzled jay
Undad wrote for Wowhead 🤔
lofty pecan
yea reading im reading it rn
jagged atlas
Is it better to clip the Envenom or Elaborate Planning buff ?
grizzled jay
Unsure the question, you should only clip either if you are going to cap Energy.
Otherwise you shouldn't be in a position to have to decide between one or the other.
jagged atlas
The EP buff is shorter than the Envenom one so I was wondering if I should refresh EP buff before it falls off or rather Envenom buff
balmy condor
You don’t refresh either unless you’re going to overcap energy
grizzled jay
You only want to refresh Envenom when it is <1s duration but ideally you want to refresh it the server tick it ends. That takes precedence over EP.
jagged atlas
what do you mean "to refresh it the server tick it ends" ?
grizzled jay
You want to use the entire duration of Envenom. Because buffs are gained/fall off based on server tick / latency and not the actual moment you click it or the exact moment it hits 0s, you would want to get the natural timing to refresh it the moment it falls off.
Basically it's an easier way to say "refresh it depending on your latency".
jagged atlas
ok ty
grizzled jay
But starting out, you can refresh it at <1s which is the pandemic window for Envenom. But don't make a habit of it.
so this thing got giga buffed
jagged axle
getting real fuckin worried about ass bois 
low girder
I wouldn't. I would check out the hotfix notes after uldir heroic week where all 3 warlock specs got like a 15% buff.
Not to say that's gonna happen, but no reason to be upset atm
grizzled jay
didn't affliction get a 40% nerf the day before bfa launched lol
vague coral
Need some help here everyone. Hate to do it but I'm having troubles. Little back story. I left the game a year ago to get my life together. I came back in the last few months and now I'm ready to pick up where I left off with gearing my rogue (besides flying I'm caught up with everything else). Pawn and simc used to be my thing along with pinned posts from here to pages that were very helpful. Now it seems there's nothing to go look at or none of the pages are up to date. Not sure what's going on. Anyways I want to get my stats correct and I'm not sure what I'm looking at when it comes to the % in game and the numbers they give off these pages or icy veins 🤢. Is there a pawn string I can use? I'm in all purples. Ilvl is 80.
If anyone needs or wants to look me up to further guide me as well. Shadowsbein - Dalaran
drifting cloud
top gear on raidbots will always give more accurate info that any pawn string
stats can change alot when you swap gear and for assa alot of this xpac they were decently close to one another anways so a socket or just ilvl would win a majority of the time
you can always see how your stats sim on raidbots but shouldnt use that info when figuring out upgrades when we have top gear / gear compare
vague coral
So I'm seeing to download raidbots and top gear? And maybe gear compare?
vague coral
Ok so how do I get simc go work? I got a new laptop and went to download the add-on and the site no longer lets me download and I feel lost at using it
Unless you meant to get a string from raidbots
drifting cloud
you just need the simc addon, the website is basically just a better version of the program we used to use
/simc in game, and you copy the whole thing in the box in raidbots
vague coral
Top easy! Thank you for the help
balmy condor
Would also get rid of pawn entirely
If you’re going to start simming, you’d need to resim a new pawn string pretty much every time you get a new piece of gear, and at that point you’re better off just using top gear instead since it’ll be more accurate
low girder
@grizzled jay probably. Was more just saying mega tuning still happens even that late
sweet zealot
quick question, does slide and dice for sin rogue still increase energy regen?
cant find it on the tooltip on live, but I saw it was added in beta
sweet zealot
I was making a weakaura so I needed to make sure if I needed a specific SnD aura for sin alone
sweet zealot
ah in that case, gr8
frigid kestrel
Just read the wowhead sin guide...... uhhh was it written before changes and then posted late?
Just reread it, the tree is recommended for leveling
stoic bolt
quick question, does slide and dice for sin rogue still increase energy regen?
@sweet zealot it's a level 52 perk I think
dark marten
guys can anyone point me in the right direction for sims and comparisons between each rogue spec for castle nathria?
low girder
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
wind zenith
jesus assassin is fun
is there a good macro to to auto swap muti to ambush when blindside procs
warm parcel
Macros cant and wont do that
vestal wren
you can
but its not that simple, simplest solution is to install gnome sequencer and paste your ambush/mut macro into it
vestal wren
it can
the addon is exploiting the macro syntax
its just easier to install the addon and let it handle it instead of doing it on your own
wind zenith
is it particularly worth doing? it almost feels like at that point i may as well just slap the button on
vestal wren
it means you don't need to bind ambush
wind zenith
yeah fair
vestal wren
but it also means that you need a 3rd party addon to comfortably do this
wind zenith
im fine with a 3rd party addon -- but my previous knowledge of gnome sequencer comes from those shoddy one button macros back in the day
vestal wren
it does some tricks to lift some macro restrictions
so there are still classes that can use one button rotation macros, but rogue is not one of those
wind zenith
right -- but is there a way to get it to not sequence? wouldnt GS swap between ambush and mutilate on push not do both
or is that just an option within GS
vestal wren
i think it has a priority list option
wind zenith
oh neat
wind zenith
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick scarab
the gnomesequencer macro for mut ambush is up somewhere ?
noble stirrup
Is assa one of the worst spec in beta?
balmy condor
balmy condor
you want a macro that knows when you have a proc and switches automatically?
sick scarab
no
i want macro like this
no mod it cast ambsh or mut , mod slice and cice
mm need to check
balmy condor
?
why not just make a second button on your action bar
and bind that to the mod
and make that slice
instead of trying to do like 3 buttons on a single action bar button
sick scarab
i can do that
but wiht mroe complex macro maybe is duable so on my mouse a have 1 button for that
no mod is mut ambush, and mod is slice and dice
got what i mean ?
balmy condor
well if you're not happy with fuu's gnome sequencer for ambush/mut
you're only going to get jankier and jankier as you go down that path
for 0 gain
so I wish you luck
balmy condor
the whole fascination of 1 button macros and binding skills together makes no sense to me is all
warm parcel
There is no way to automate ambush muti without botting
Its quite strictly impossible and against tos
balmy condor
is it too difficult to press a different button when your screen flashbangs that you got a proc
like I don't understand
sick scarab
you dont jave to understand
i know lol
i just want to know if someone wiht gnomesequence did that
rotherwise it is np
balmy condor
the closest is fuu's
sick scarab
i knew that macro
sick scarab
for that i uistalled gnome
warm parcel
Do I really have to swap my name back
sick scarab
i repeat IF it is doable wiht gnome then is ok otherwise gg
balmy condor
I'll still call you weab dw
warm parcel
No if isnt possible no
sick scarab
ah k
warm parcel
Such conditionals were removed from macros in late BC iirc
sick scarab
perfect 🙂
warm parcel
So yea technically it is within luas boundaries
Just protected so players cannot make bots via ingame macros 
warm parcel
363 paladin was a thing in wrath too
balmy condor
had one guy ask about ambush/mut macro's
and then follow it up with "can I macro it so rupture casts when its not up, and envenom otherwise"
sick scarab
lol
balmy condor
and I wanted to reach through my monitor and choke him
warm canopy
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick scarab
well
tbh a macro that allow us to do a spell when it is available
i dont see it as a bad thing
sick scarab
well macros are for that
warm parcel
It goes against the basic policy of one inpuit being one action
sick scarab
i play wiht macro
warm parcel
afaik
sick scarab
mod no mod
balmy condor
that's 2 buttons still
sick scarab
y
sick scarab
it is like the auto talen swap
warm parcel
You mean one that swaps automatically based on location or just all at once
balmy condor
I use a focus macro for tricks and that's it
warm parcel
Cause ones automated and otherones not
balmy condor
cause I've never seen a need for anything else
sick scarab
the one that swap spell if you have the talent
my englihs suck i cant explain correclty 🙂
warm parcel
I know what you mean
balmy condor
yeah that's fine too
warm parcel
Yeah thats just under basic macro conditionals
Works for specs too
Like spec:1/2/3
You are allowed to run a fair bit of lua thru macros
Its just limited to a degree
You can even run loops via it
And occasionally those have ended up being restricted
balmy condor
I'm honestly surprised fuu's gnome sequencer shenanigan isn't restricted tbh
cause its a janky work around but it's getting there
sick scarab
well it is a work around but
warm parcel
One way I could see it being done wihtout GS even is via the actionbarswap
sick scarab
it is not doing what it is needed
balmy condor
yeah
that's illegal tho
and spamming the button
and having it cycle
does the same thing
just doesn't look as clean
balmy condor
well if you like clean stuff
sick scarab
i will move slice and dice on another macro and gg 🙂
balmy condor
might I suggest having 2 separate buttons, one for ambush, and one for mutilate? I heard it works 100% of the time, and its super low-profile
sick scarab
ehehe
sick scarab
need to find a good setup mm 🙂
mm from stealh ambush is always best option ?
ffs need to test stuff lol
balmy condor
in m+ you garrote x3
and atm you would mutilate, in shadowlands you ambush though
its marginally better
vestal wren
There is no way to automate ambush muti without botting
Is this still about gnome sequencer?
gnome sequencer is not against tos or botting
sick scarab
i was asking if it was possible a IF condition
not spam 1 2
if ambush is UP the cast it otherwise mutilate
vestal wren
oh, well ye full automation is 
lofty pecan
yeah you cant do that kind of stuff anymore
sick scarab
k k then np
vestal wren
blizz never intended you to do it
lofty pecan
i know what you mean by that, you want the macro to change to ambush when it procs
sick scarab
exaclty swarkzoff
vestal wren
that works