assassination

[frigid kestrel]

When I’m not lazy

[empty ravine]

the russian dude that made the last sin guide ever come to this disc?

[balmy condor]

he's been in here

for a long time

[frigid kestrel]

The bleed damage in blood fang give energy similar to rupture?

[empty ravine]

he know eng?

[balmy condor]

I mean, its definitely not Shakespeare

but yeh

he's the one that translated the guide

[empty ravine]

come now im sure hes a poet

[balmy condor]

so its good enough

[frigid kestrel]

Those soulbinds in the pins still up to date?

[balmy condor]

yes

you can check the timestamp :)

[empty ravine]

that reminds me, what is best majors and mins for pre-patch

and az traits gonna be gone in SL right?

[balmy condor]

blood and clf are lookin big

[empty ravine]

and i know major/min is in pin

[balmy condor]

essences and azerite traits are gone in sl

[empty ravine]

CoF doesnt do more than BoTD in st pve?

[frigid kestrel]

Time stamps

Imma fucking idiot

[balmy condor]

convergence of fate?

the elisande trinket?

[empty ravine]

crucible of flame

[balmy condor]

oh

no usually

you take it as a minor

[empty ravine]

well i know it wasnt, but i wasnt sure if it changed

btw is shiv gonna be worked into rota>?

[balmy condor]

identical to toxic blade in shadowlands

[empty ravine]

ah nvm it doesnt do more dmg

oh really?

[balmy condor]

in prepatch its actually just worthless, so you never cast it

[empty ravine]

well not for pvp

but ya

[balmy condor]

I guess, if you really need a stronger slow

[empty ravine]

shiv gives better slow i think

pretty big dif between 50% and 70% slow imo

but ya not huge

[balmy condor]

in sl we get numbing and shiv r2

so then it'll be pog

[empty ravine]

ya i know

and in SL MnP aitn gonna be this gimpy fucking pvp talent that just dmgs casters and does absolutety fuck all

but actually gonna increase cast time like a boss

not to mention its gonna be a non-lethal poison to boot

not sure whether the slow will be more important in pvp

prob gonna boil down to using mnp in arena when vs casters and cp when vs melee and hunters

and and in rbgs using mnp when you are fighting with team and cp when solo

oh wait shiv does slow by itself, thats nice

[balmy condor]

shiv slows through crippling

[strange python]

´.´

[empty ravine]

oh i see

stupid tooltip changes when you put cp on

thats new

but props to devs for making tooltip more dynamic

[balmy condor]

they've been dynamic for like 8 years

[empty ravine]

i dont remember the tooltip for shiv changing what it says in spellbook when you have crip on vs when you didnt

but maybe i just didnt notice til now

[grizzled jay]

thats because it didnt do anything in relation to poisons before

now it does

[surreal solar]

are the soulbinds best for ST or Aoe / M+ or Raid?

[balmy condor]

its notated

legend at the top

[surreal solar]

the only one im seeing with an M+ tag is Necro

the rest just have "best"

[balmy condor]

correct

that's cause they're the best

[surreal solar]

hmm i feel like the reason korayn leaped ahead of niya is due to the fact he's almost halfway open from the start... other than that is his 10% to targets above 75% really better than the mastery and burrs of niya?

[balmy condor]

sims are done with the full tree

so the 10% is better than the other traits

[empty ravine]

as anub'rehkan would say "kinky"

[fleet whale]

Korayn is a she btw 😛

[surreal solar]

couldn't tell given just a face everywhere i looked

[vale latch]

Sin still 10-15% behind sub in beta?

[balmy condor]

yes

[obsidian mountain]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[prisma yoke]

i like to think of shiv getting used as filler to reach cp cap without overcapping. but it i guess it's a complete waste and just using a finisher at 4/5cp one gcd earlier is better dps?

[balmy condor]

yep

always mut on 3, finish on 4

[prisma yoke]

sometimes i use garrote to gain 1cp when i have to refresh anyway. but that happens way less often

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine

[wet ruin]

do we use slice and dice in aoe

[balmy condor]

yes

[halcyon grail]

<5 targets

[balmy condor]

nop

just always

[halcyon grail]

Chart?

[balmy condor]

if my gui would work sure

[halcyon grail]

I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just curious because literally everything I read and have play tested indicates on sustained AoE you don't above 5 targets in value over rupture multi dotting CT, or Poison bomb and envenom

Especially with the new bloodfang

[balmy condor]

you mean the bloodfang that's doing 10x the damage it's supposed to

[halcyon grail]

YES THAt lol

[balmy condor]

I don't even think about bloodfang tbh

[strange python]

are we using ambush > mut now?

[balmy condor]

no

mut for prepatch

[strange python]

kkkkkk thx

[royal lantern]

mut can generate more cp with crits

[strange python]

Correct was just checking

[main blaze]

It would be really nice is Crimson Tempest applied alacrity

[balmy condor]

bugs

feels good man

[frigid kestrel]

ok so i finally decided to do something in pre-patch

and

what stats am i aiming for, cuase i just did like 3.7k overall and i feel like i should be doing 5

[balmy condor]

vers crit

[frigid kestrel]

Ye thats what i figured

Doesnt help that i casted 3 Ambushes and only 4 SnD the entire run

New things.... Hate em

[balmy condor]

ambush in 2020

[grizzled jay]

tfw all 3 specs are vers + crit/mast

lol

[shell moss]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[halcyon grail]

ambush has felt really unrewarding as sin since forever, honestly.

even when we had instant and deadly, opening with mut/garrote was better

[balmy condor]

yeah

just a tuning thing tbh

It'll be worth in shadowlands thankfully

and it feels good with blindside

[fleet whale]

Ambush hits for a pretty good amount in SL

and it will hit harder than un-shived 5 CP envenoms too, at least until we get geared up

[bleak glacier]

does this make blindside better than elab planning?

[balmy condor]

not in prepatch

in shadowlands, yes

[bleak glacier]

makes sense

[digital shore]

Am I missing something or did Sin just get nerfed with the removal of Toxic Blade?

[balmy condor]

toxic blade will be back in the form of rank 2 shiv in shadowlands

[digital shore]

Ah okay

So we did get nerfed for this prepatch. Not that I plan to do anything anymore

[balmy condor]

sins actually still fine

alacrity is stronger in that talent slot anyway

so we didn't really "lose" much

[digital shore]

Okay

[subtle drift]

Except the fun playstyle

[balmy condor]

not sure if "press button on cd" is what made sin fun

:P

imo sin is fun enough just as is

[subtle drift]

Haste build i mean

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah

was super weird for sin to be that fast

[digital shore]

I only played the crit build for M+ so it's not that different for me

[errant delta]

hay quick question whats better for sin in pve troll or zan troll ?

[balmy condor]

irrelevant

the one that looks better in your opinion

[errant delta]

well 10% hast every 3 mins or the loa buffs?

[balmy condor]

racials are all very close damage wise

its irrelevant

like its so close that it's not worth thinking about

[errant delta]

are the loa buffs like 100% uptime or procs?

[balmy condor]

they're buffs

[subtle drift]

I prefer Zandalari Troll over everything, cause the 100% heal in 4 seconds saved myself a lot of times.

[subtle drift]

Prepatch Single Target

[balmy condor]

don't link prepatch

omegayikes

still mega skewed by borrowed power

[errant delta]

ty that graph is wat i was looking for

[subtle drift]

Yeah. But he didn't asked for Shadowlands

[balmy condor]

god damnit

basing anything off of prepatch is just silly

[subtle drift]

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/races/1t-t25-assassination bookmark this site

It will get updatet to lvl 60

But AFAIK the differences between racials are like Whispyr said so close to eachother that feelycraft (Playing a race that you actually like) is more powerful :D

[balmy condor]

^

racials have always been really close

except for 8.3 with corruptions just ripping everything out of whack

don't pick a race based on dps

[digital shore]

Always? I thought that was the reason Horde got so popular back in the day?

[balmy condor]

there's outlier patches

which have swung to horde

I'm using "always" in place of "generally"

[digital shore]

Ahaz

Aha*

[subtle drift]

I chosed based of utility

100% regen is

[balmy condor]

tomb of sargeras, you saw entire raid groups switching to goblin for rocket jump on kil'jaeden

[subtle drift]

Bloodelf AE purge is also good

For M+

[balmy condor]

goblin wasn't top dps though

its usually the niche utility that gets picked

instead of the dps

and then you had a lot of top guilds playing horde

which pulled people to horde

and then you had a good patch of racials, and more guilds playing horde

so you had more horde

its more of community perspective than anything else tbh

[subtle drift]

YOu could argue that dwarf is the best pick for the next Tier Set, cause almost every boss does have a bleed ability.

[balmy condor]

yeah

[proper sage]

wait sin gets ambush?

[honest basin]

Yes

[proper sage]

huh

[balmy condor]

And blindside gives free ambush procs

It’s very cool

[proper sage]

woah

does ambush actually combo with the sin toolkit or is it just like

"here's an ability"

[balmy condor]

It’s just mutilate but less combo points

:)

[proper sage]

):

[sweet pecan]

just learned shiv... i never use this right?

[low girder]

Not in prepatch, no. At least not in a pve context.

[sweet pecan]

ye the guide doesnt even mention the skill

[low girder]

We'll get a thing later that makes us use it in SL

[odd python]

so haste/exsangusoemthing build is gone ?

[low girder]

Haste is fine, just not what you stack. but yeah the build is dead

[odd python]

so what is "meta" in prepatch ?

for assa?

[low girder]

Vers > crit, DD, HoD, NP, and SS are all fine traits. Mostly DD/HoD though. One ss is still good value

M+ is the same as before, SS/EB stacking, can do also 2x EB + one of something else + the SS's

And take alacrity always

[balmy condor]

Damn dude

I doze off for 20 minutes

Calm down mata jeebus

[low girder]

Lmao. I'm just in bed waiting to fall asleep

[digital pilot]

look for a macro for Ambush and mutilate even when Subterfuge is active if possible

[vestal wren]

not possible without a addon

the [bonusbar:1] conditions includes subterfuge

[digital pilot]

i have elvui

i figured it out

im a dum dum

forgot about the bonus bar been seperate lol

[vestal wren]

i thought you wanted to have blindside procs work with ambush too

[digital pilot]

nah is blind side gonna be a thing btw

[vestal wren]

its good in single target

it will be relevant in sl, not sure about pre patch

[digital pilot]

thats interesting would defo need a master in macros to provide somthing like that

so it would prio ambush over mutilate

hmm

need it to like priority Ambush but have mutilate if ambush cannot be cast cause of stealth

[sweet pecan]

that doesnt make sense... ambush is cast from stealth (or from blindside proc)

[digital pilot]

from the proc yue

but u cant target buffs in macros

[vestal wren]

as mentioned earlier, you can make a macro that works only if you use a addon that lifts macro restrictions

[sweet pecan]

would
/cast [stealth] ambush; mutilate not work then?

[vestal wren]

it does not

[digital pilot]

wouldent that be agaist term of service from blizzard ?

[sweet pecan]

maybe i dont understand his problem.

[vestal wren]

because ambush from blindside can be used without stealth

no its not barmey

[sweet pecan]

oh thats what he wants then?

[digital pilot]

ye

[vestal wren]

because those addons only abuse macro semantics to lift some restrictions

[sweet pecan]

the only way it would work is if you use your brain and keep an eye on the blindside proc

and use a [mod] command

[digital pilot]

cause base ambush can be on the stealth bar but a free ambush

[sweet pecan]

or mess with addons, though i dont have any experience with that

[vestal wren]

#assassination message

[digital pilot]

so only way to do it is with Modifiers

[sweet pecan]

if i played blindside id probably make it so eg, button nr3 is mutilate, and alt+3 from the bar above is ambush

[vestal wren]

you can use [bonusbar:1] if you want subterfuge/stealth

[sweet pecan]

and use weakauras to tell me to use ambush whenever the blindside procs

[vestal wren]

but that would not work with blindside procs

[digital pilot]

was just an idea since we got more abilites back added to the bar

[vestal wren]

the message i linked above showcases gnome sequencer as a "solution"

[digital pilot]

shame there no macros with the What if function XD

[sweet pecan]

that would make it too powerful most likely

you could do an entire rotation like that in 1 button then

[vestal wren]

macros and addons had low restrictions in wotlk

did just lead to people writing bots

both is now very limited in function

[digital pilot]

ye i can see why could make a macro level for you automaticlly and stuff

the only sequence system is cast

[vestal wren]

the mentioned gnome sequencer addon just uses the macro condition to click action buttons

as that can lift some restrictions

you could potentially do it without the addon but would be harder to setup

[digital pilot]

ill have a look if i have any successs ill let ya know

would be a nice quality of life

thanks for the info

[mystic vapor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[frigid kestrel]

@sweet pecan is actually correct. People use to do that and thats why restrictions were put into place initially. Also Gnome Sequencer has some pretty nutty things on their site.

[fading wigeon]

not sure if this was talked about before, but is anyone else having issues with raidbots not showing you bfa enchants?

[ember mural]

there is an option somewhere to show all enchantments, that will bring up bfa enchants

[fading wigeon]

thank you!

[simple portal]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[timid cloud]

Do we do 4 combo point finishers or do we force for the 5th point?

[royal lantern]

4 or 5

if you play with deeper its 5 or 6

[timid cloud]

Yeah, was just curious if that interaction changed, since we don't even use Shiv right now, so it's a little weird.

[fading wigeon]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[jaunty ginkgo]

sub disc can't seem to help me but I guess sin still has rupture so

my question is, is there a difference between the optimal time to cast rupture for 5 and 6 CP ruptures?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[jaunty ginkgo]

thought so

[balmy condor]

“Optimal” is relative though

Any cast within pandemic is neutral

[jaunty ginkgo]

so it is 30% of the time of the rupture cast you are about to cast?

[balmy condor]

There’s not a better, or worse time

As long as you’re in pandemic, you’re good

[jaunty ginkgo]

isn't there a threshold though?

yeah exactly

[balmy condor]

Yes, pandemic is maximum threshold of 30% of the newly cast dot

[jaunty ginkgo]

Thanks 🙂

[balmy condor]

This holds true for slice and dice as well

No problem :)

[jaunty ginkgo]

I don't understand how no one could answer me that in sub

lol

[balmy condor]

Sub is a very....interesting channel these days

[jaunty ginkgo]

many new players by the looks of it

[balmy condor]

The hype train got to it

Lot of broken interactions and overtuned mechanics with sub during beta

[jaunty ginkgo]

partly makes me want to go back to outlaw

which I never thought I'd say

but it is a fun spec 🙂

[balmy condor]

Outlaw still hurts to play for me :P

Rtb feels awful imo, even after putting it on a cooldown, and it’s not a rogue fantasy I enjoy

But I see the appeal

[jaunty ginkgo]

Not the biggest fan of it in raid

but it was super fun for me in m+

but I agree the class fantasy doesn't do it for me

sin is best class fantasy imo

[balmy condor]

yup

[frigid kestrel]

I agree sin has the class fantasy nailed in my opinion and Sub ain’t far off the mark. When I think of an rogue I think of the things those two specs do l..... don’t ever think...... you know pirate

[jaunty ginkgo]

outlaw would be cooler if it wasn't so pirate based

but anyway, I think we're heading into general territory so I'll leave it there 😄

[desert pelican]

For 5 masks as assa nothing changed too much? Still same high burst and packs melted by ss trait?

[balmy condor]

yeah, just not as much melt

you're losing all the corruption, so its definitely harder than it was in 8.3

[desert pelican]

Recently carried 5 mask as dh, and it feels harder, think assa didnt lose soo much dmg ;)

[dark crag]

Without haste the exsang build lost a great deal of power

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't run exsang in visions anymore

[vast forum]

tbh

there's a lot of haste from the vision bonuses

the 15% from killing mobs + gift proc

i'd say exsang still worth

[viral aurora]

asking in all rogue chats, but what enchants are we using atm in m+ scenario with ss+eb build

[tropic ocean]

versatile

+crit or gale-force if u r lazy

[sly badger]

Heyo, general rogue question about the three specs. I was leveling one, and wondering the playstyle differences of the three.
DPS matters to me but not as much as the general playstyle of them. Is one more bursty, one more slow and steady, one more RNG based?

For PVE content I should preface. I want to level with the one i'm playing with in endgame, just to get a feel for it ahead of time.

[balmy condor]

sin is slow, dot based, kinda bursty with vendetta
sub is fast, fairly consistent, shadow damage and instant damage, with strong short cooldown skills
outlaw is sort of rng based, but it's overblown, it's mostly defined by blade flurry and procs

[sly badger]

It sorta sounds like outlaw is my niche, i'm a big fan of proccy, reaction based gameplay versus the slow dump of unholy DK's, or affliction warlock

I was leveling with sub, but it feels energy starved. I'm sure that problem goes away with time?

[low girder]

that goes away with levels, yeah. there's a lot of energy talents.

[balmy condor]

yup

sub gets most of its energy needs from talents

[low girder]

sin just kinda stays slow

not as slow as leveling but not to the same degree as sub

[marsh bloom]

Do we use poisoned knife now to get the 100% chance from alacrity?

[balmy condor]

no

alacrity maintains itself

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor have you been simming every beta trinket?

[balmy condor]

I'd rather kms

[grizzled jay]

i thought you were our sim bitch

[balmy condor]

I am, but simming beta trinkets is so silly lmao

[grizzled jay]

well it's more about approximate strength in a vacuum i guess

i'd like to at least know the strength of the raid trinkets

especially since Skulker's and Dreadfire are both ST trinkets

[balmy condor]

hm yes, this trinket is completely overtuned doing 15% of our damage and this one is also doing 15% of our damage and the rest are unusable

[grizzled jay]

which ones are overtuned rn? just Putrefication Vial right?

[faint harness]

Cant you buy all trinkets from the vendor, do /simc and raidbots it now

[balmy condor]

yeah could just do that

[grizzled jay]

a lot of the trinkets are quest or wq trinkets that can never be ilvl 226

i dont really know which ones are actual dungeon drops lol

[faint harness]

DJ helps

[grizzled jay]

im just glad Simp Rogue never left

[balmy condor]

lemme just say there's a reason why none of the sim pages have trinket comparisons yet

:)

[grizzled jay]

im not saying some trinkets are over or undertuned

legendaries were just as overtuned and people sim'd those

[faint harness]

Its kinda pointless doing it at this time

[grizzled jay]

i dont think trinkets are gonna get touched as much as legendaries/covenants

[faint harness]

Yea well theres feedback to be given about legendaries

[grizzled jay]

or at qall maybe

they never touched font or coral after being told they were insane on ptr

[faint harness]

Trinkets never seem to have a clear dps target, atal trinket anyone

[grizzled jay]

when you say 'clear dps target' you mean like 'blizzard designed this trinket without a specific % of your dps in mind'?

[faint harness]

Yes

[grizzled jay]

yeah i agree with that

[faint harness]

Legendaries seem to be quite obviously tuned around 5%

[grizzled jay]

Unless you're Survival

[faint harness]

I dont follow, worse or better?

[grizzled jay]

Legendaries do a very large portion of Survival's dps rn lol

Like 9-13%

this is really stupid with Mongoose Bite

[faint harness]

Isnt that generic

[grizzled jay]

Freezing Trap, even if its immune'd, counts as triggering. So you proc freezing, tar, and spike and get so many Mongoose's off

yah but Focus for Mongoose is a lot more dps than for bm/mm

[faint harness]

Yea i know, that does sound strong. Well survival needs it! Back to sin perhaps

[grizzled jay]

lol

can you believe we're going a whole expansion using Zoldyck again

[faint harness]

Good for prog tho

So thats a good thing id say

Not super exciting perhaps, but neither is any sub legendary after nerfing the rotten

[grizzled jay]

Deathly Shadows getting some looks for Sub?

[faint harness]

Nah

Akaari again, just passive strike dmg... zzz

Zoldyck sort of the same i guess. Isnt all of sins legendaries quite close tho

[grizzled jay]

they close on patchwerk but Zoldyck will always win cause if you have to move off boss it still does stuff

also is better in aoe than doomblade

[faint harness]

Does it buff sbs

[grizzled jay]

Zoldyck? i don't remember. but sbs does get affected by Mastery, so it might.

[faint harness]

Alright, could be some synergy, but i guess thats the same with sepsis then

[grizzled jay]

Sepsis works with Shiv but not Mastery currently, but yah

[balmy condor]

sbs is not affected by mastery

[faint harness]

Weird

[grizzled jay]

that's new then it used to be im pretty sure

[gray fjord]

The bleed part was affected by it, not sure if it still is on bone spike with the current build. The main hit never was, though. Just realized how long ago the lasts posts were. xD

[balmy condor]

^ should've added that part

the bleed part might be affected by it

but the rebalance makes the dot hit like a wet noodle so not sure its worth anything

[gray fjord]

Yeah that's kinda the thing, even if mastery is still buffing it. The fact it can't crit is a pretty big detriment to it as well.

[balmy condor]

yeah

might see it buffed again seeing as where it is atm

who really knows

[gray fjord]

Yeah it's all really up in the air. I mean hell they're still throwing brand new/re-worked legendaries and covenant abilities at us at this point xD

[vestal wren]

i think its fair to assume that they will soon start to balance conduits

[balmy condor]

I'd hope so, dd on sub scares me

[vestal wren]

dd is easier to tune

there are other traits that maybe even need a rework to be relevant

[balmy condor]

idk, there's a lot of 'boring' conduits imo

that are basically just "it does more damage now"

[vestal wren]

e.g. slight of hands even with rerolling might be never worth to use because the value you get from it is just not enough

[balmy condor]

yeah idk

[vestal wren]

PK for sin is f.ex. a pure aoe trait that either needs a buff or a rework

[balmy condor]

wps stands out to me as a sin conduit as well

where it doesn't really make sense

but they could just buff it to relevancy

make number big enough, and it'll be good

[vestal wren]

subtleties PV trait... its currently not even worth using it during dance

ye steel too, seems like a candidate for a change

[noble night]

Hey guys, I have some questions about the rotation for asn with pre-patch, so if anyone could help, I'd appreciate it! Anyway, so far I've seen two different rotations, the first being;
Ambush - Rupture - mut - garrote - mut -snd - mut to 4-5 - envenom - then clf - vendetta - vanish - ambush and upkeep.
The second is;
garrote - snd - mut - rupture - clf -vendetta - vanish - garrote.
Which should I be using? Also should I be taking Master Assassin or Subterfuge?
If it helps, my current azerite traits are - np x1 (though I can take more but not sure if it's worth?), 2x dd, and 1x twist the knife.
TIA!

[vestal wren]

but not so sure about the trait given potential interactions

[balmy condor]

@noble night you should sim yourself to check between with subt/ma

the first opener you mentioned is an MA opener, the second is a subt opener

so depending on what talent you choose in that row, you'll have to change your opener

[noble night]

Thanks @balmy condor I'll check it out and go from there. I was originally running subt, but then was told to switch to ma 😅

[balmy condor]

yeah tbh no one really knows that without a sim

subt is the general go to

but ma will be better for some people depending on gear

the fact that you don't have any SS makes you a pretty strong contender for it

[noble night]

I do have SS but changed azerite traits, so I can change them back!

[balmy condor]

aha

highest sims for single target atm are 2x dd 1x ss 3x hod

np and ttk are weaker traits generally

so I would double check that when you sim ma/subt as well

might have some trait/talent combo beat it out. If you do find yourself using subt/SS, your opener is actually going to change again to double cast garrote in subterfuge

[noble night]

Thanks! I'll do some simming and see how I go. I have a few hod traits as well, so I could change those too

[balmy condor]

anytime! feel free to come back with any questions if you run into trouble

[noble night]

Thank you! I appreciate it. I always feel like such a derp with pre-patches and not knowing/being able to find out the right rotations and stuff 😅

[balmy condor]

yeah prepatches aren't really something to worry about tbh

just have fun, and then in shadowlands you can worry about optimizing again

[low girder]

is the MA vs Subt a gear thing or does that hold true at all gear levels, i haven't really looked into it

[balmy condor]

its still a gear thing

[low girder]

like not including SS

ah

[balmy condor]

but subt is definitely stronger this time around

from what I've seen

[noble night]

For sure! I just want to stop the muscle memory of how I've been playing over the last few months, and try to get the hang of the new rotation XD

[fallow otter]

We tried re simming ma since snd change

?

[balmy condor]

I mean

I can

we talking prepatch, beta, conduits, legendaries, covenant?

[fallow otter]

Just wondering if more energy means more spam in window

[balmy condor]

probably not

[fallow otter]

I haven't even played sin since pre patch so I guess that shows how much I care

[balmy condor]

I don't think the 10% is enough to actually change anything in a meaningful way

[frigid kestrel]

Nope

Tested it out, I can barely tell the difference

I’m hoping they go 15 - 20%

But we will see, maybe something else is worth

[vestal wren]

MA + night fae does look rly strong for assassination on beta

[noble night]

Looks like I get slightly higher DPS with subt with ss, so what would my rotation look like then @balmy condor ? 🙂

[vestal wren]

there is not a lot to it, assassination benefits the most from the vanish what makes it a strong pick ma just amps this a lot higher

[balmy condor]

gar rup gar clf vend snd

vanish when the garrotes drop off into 2 garrotes

[noble night]

so gar twice after vanish? Would I be using ambush to start?

[balmy condor]

nope

gar rup gar from stleath

[noble night]

and then the double gar after vanish? so ambush isn't in the rotation?

[balmy condor]

correct

you don't use ambush at all in prepatch

unless blindside of course

[noble night]

ahhh ok thanks for that!

[balmy condor]

no problem

[fallow otter]

I miss vend vanish gar CT gar mut rup gcb exsang bote

Rippers the most fun sin had been in a long time

[balmy condor]

late gcb

[fallow otter]

Late for you

Send halp

Gonna have to play corruption on private server

Lol

[balmy condor]

wtf

[fallow otter]

Hang on

You saying you didn't like it?

[low girder]

i mean playing it is fine but corruption can fuck itself

lmao

[balmy condor]

playing 8.3 private server

is giga yikes

[fallow otter]

Hahaha years from now, I don't mean now fuckkkkkk that

You ever played like wrath or something?

[balmy condor]

nah

private servers not my thing

makes me feel dirty

[fallow otter]

I tried it once, years ago, can confirm it felt dirty

[carmine osprey]

Isnt NF gonna cause an awkward interaction as you'll want to rupture from the vanish effect so is there gonna be some funky math as to how much energy wastage its worth to make sure you've got a 5/6 point ready for when it pops?

[low girder]

the energy regen is slow enough (on ST) i highly doubt that's going to be an issue

[balmy condor]

yeah that sounds pretty ridiculous

[low girder]

also it won't be a rupture, it'll be env

[balmy condor]

yep

the finisher is irrelevant

but you want to pool properly to get env mut env out of it

[low girder]

oh i missed that there was no MA in there, yeah

derp

[cloud pebble]

i got a maybe dumb question

i wanna farm the hidden underbelly appearance

for sin

what is the most efficient way of killing rares in the underbelly? Are tbere any items that can boost the droprate/spawnrate or do you just wait around? Sorry if dumb

[balmy condor]

drops from chests too

otherwise just sit around and kill rares

really should be a question for the #transmog nerds though

[cloud pebble]

aight i will copypaste in there see if they got anything

read something about an item

but i cant seem to find anything

[balmy condor]

well it drops an item, which you use to get the appearence

not sure what other item is involved

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=139427/wild-mana-wand

you're looking for that

but I wouldn't be so sure that it increases the drop rate

[cloud pebble]

hmm

maybe you can use the extra eyes to buy something?

[balmy condor]

that's not how the appearance works

Kill rare/open chest, item drops, use item, get appearance

[cloud pebble]

no but use the eyes to buy an item that can do something to increase efficiency?

im just grabbing in the dark tbh

[balmy condor]

Nope

Just kill/loot and the item will drop

[cloud pebble]

alright

thanks

[balmy condor]

Took me like 4 days in legion

Should be mega quick now with no one in there

[cloud pebble]

i assume they are soloable?

[balmy condor]

Yeah, since introduction

Will probably be 2 shots nowadays

[cloud pebble]

well i will prob be using some sheit lvl 40 rogue to do it

but still

[balmy condor]

Oh yuckyuck

[cloud pebble]

shouldnt be a problem

bad idea?

[balmy condor]

Can’t speak for how the scaling works out now

But could get hairy

[cloud pebble]

alright

i got several rogues but i might aswell grab some xp on this one while im doing it

thanks!

[balmy condor]

Np

[strange python]

any pvp help on race choosing? I kinda wanna go Dark Iron but the graphs point to void elf or human

[verbal mantle]

you should ask this question in #pvp
you will have a better chance to get an answer since pve race choice isnt that impactful @strange python

overall

[cloud pebble]

Btw

Can the item drop while you are playing a different spec?

[strange python]

@verbal mantle thanks, will do

[bright lintel]

Looking at the latest sims, I have to say, I am quite surprised how close the covenants and legendaries are tuned to each other in terms of performance.

[young vessel]

@strange python but long story short its human for 3s and nelf for 2s

for rogue

[strange python]

tyty

[jolly spoke]

whats everyones go to for Weak auras now? mine arent syncing correctly anymore

[verbal mantle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[lament aurora]

dead channel

[fleet whale]

cause of sub hype

[drifting cloud]

getting r3 on a boss and its a purple log, assa life in prepatch

[fleet whale]

and sadly, it will probably be even worse in SL

[autumn knoll]

cause of sub hype
Coming back since MoP, this is lost on me, but noticed Outlaw and Sub are actually really popular rn and Sin is always crickets

[balmy condor]

yeah

[lament aurora]

only 4.7k io, 4th highest sin IO in the world LMAO, FeelsSinMan

[limber lion]

But sub has been a dogshit spec for over 2 years now, so people are happy to finally get to play it again

[lament aurora]

its also a ton of fun to play so true true

[limber lion]

Assa will see a boom in players once we get more haste or until Sub gets nerfed to the ground again

[balmy condor]

sin isn't the hype

we haven't seen change since like mop

[limber lion]

Yea

Assa is the spec to fall back to if things go to shit

I enjoy Assa more than sub personally, but I'm just a logger nerd, so I go where the numbers are the highest.

[balmy condor]

I just hate outlaw

:)

[limber lion]

Same, I can't stand it

It's a shame because I really like swords though and I'm mad jealous that we're stuck with pointyboys

So many great tmogs that I'll never get to use.

[strange python]

How dare you speak about Ghostblades in such a way, I'd use those things for OL too if I could

[grizzled jay]

I just play whatever I get weapons for lol

I rolled double Unguent so I played Outlaw til I got two 475 daggers

[strange python]

yeah, I'm with you on that one, I tend to just aim to get daggers and along the way hopefully pick up a 1 hander. Especially with the slands stat weights it shouldn't be TOO hard to play all the rogue specs really.

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw probably a good go-to in SL cause its ST dps isn't bad but when you hit AoE it gets giga

[strange python]

I'm assuming OL single target won't stay as good in slands as it is in prepatch.

[grizzled jay]

It's simming as well as Sub atm iirc

[strange python]

Prepatch is a little bonkers

[grizzled jay]

in the beta. but that's subject to change.

Blizz has done a good job getting the 3 specs near each other in ST at least

[strange python]

yeah beta is in massive flux atm, for all we know sin might suddenly shoot ahead at live.

it's pretty hard to tell, I just dislike when OL is too good at single target because it quickly becomes havoc. Good at everything. And being good at everything makes me scared of devs.

[grizzled jay]

Sin is still 10% behind Outlaw/Subtlety rn

A lot of that is due to just bad numbers though. Sin still plays well enough.

[strange python]

I don't like the addition of snd for sin, it just feels meh

[grizzled jay]

But Sin should never be as good as Outlaw/Sub on patchwerk cause then it is straight better in real raids due to its damage profile

[fleet whale]

I just hope sin won't be like how it was in WoD in SL lol

[balmy condor]

I feel like the whole "damage profile" argument is pretty overstated

yes its bleed/dot based and they're still ticking

but rupture damage, non-ss garrote damage, and the tick damage of poisons

are all pretty kekw

[fleet whale]

plus assassination needs high uptime in itself

to help amplify those things

[balmy condor]

most of BFA we were stuck with SS garrotes hitting like a truck, or DD, where you need to be sticking to the boss anyway

so the entire notion of "oh sin can run away and do damage"

[fleet whale]

the addition of snd

also makes boss uptime more important

[balmy condor]

well yeah, but by that regard, so can sub with nightblade

ya know

[fleet whale]

or outlaw can shoot its pistol

[balmy condor]

yeah

even with conduits, its the instant damage from poisons

so you'll have to hit things with that as well, and autos

[grizzled jay]

Pistol Shot isn't anywhere near the damage of Rup/Gar/DP/PK lol

[sacred yarrow]

^

[fleet whale]

i think you're underestimating just how much damage sin loses

[balmy condor]

pistol shot and rup are pretty close tbh lmao

[fleet whale]

when not on the boss

[balmy condor]

rupture is fucking garbage

[grizzled jay]

No one said Sin maintains dps???

But Sin loses the least dps when off boss

[sacred yarrow]

It's nowhere near outlaw mate

[grizzled jay]

That is an objective fact

[balmy condor]

that may be an objective fact

but that fact is very overhyped

[grizzled jay]

I don't hype it up, but Sin should still never be equal to Outlaw/Sub on patchwerk cause it just ends up being the best on prog due to being more commonly off-boss. At least, that is how I would design them.

[balmy condor]

its not just you

[fleet whale]

Even if blizz says that is there intention, they very rarely actually follow it

like take frost dks for example, they heavily rely on boss uptime, and have poor mobility to boot

yet very rarely have they been the best spec in pure patchwerk

[grizzled jay]

All that is changing in SL

[frigid kestrel]

I was always under the assumption that the specs for rogues should have/were designed as;
Outlaw - Specializes in Cleave/AOE
Sub - PVP (I think should be ST)
Sin - Specializes in ST (I think should be Jack of all trades not as much ST as sub and not as much Cleave/AOE as Law)

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw doesn't specialize in AoE, Blizzard was just ass at making Sub/Sin viable AoE options lol. With SL, Sub has real AoE potential and ER gives Sin viable AoE as well (as 7CP CT hits hard af). It was never about Outlaw always being designed around being better in AoE, just for whatever reason they never allowed Sin/Sub til now to have good AoE buttons to press.

[frigid kestrel]

Ye I wasn't saying it did or that was the plan. Im just stating that thats what i initially thought the goal was myself.

[grim mason]

Good evening gentlemen

[balmy condor]

[grim mason]

Do i even press Slice Ndice in m+?

[balmy condor]

yes

always maintain

[grim mason]

damn I was afraid of that

feels clunky pressing it after all this time lol

[balmy condor]

just press it at the end of each pack

to maintain alacrity stacks

and gg

it lasts so long

[grim mason]

i see

so I see Eb is king great I got rid of my eb gear 😦

lmao

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

Are you running 121xx23 for your 3x EB 3xSS whisp

[balmy condor]

no, MP still blows chunks

[fallow otter]

Haven't bothered with sin m plus yet but might try tonight

[balmy condor]

always EP

[fallow otter]

And CT for fort?

I think that's the move

[balmy condor]

CT usually always after the buff

its within like 0.5-1% on single target sims

compared to pb

[fallow otter]

Using it ST?

[balmy condor]

ye

[grim mason]

hmmm I feel like I never have time to hit envenom with tempest for single targte o.0

is that just me?

always refreshing tempest or SnD

amd I doing something wrong

[balmy condor]

yep, that'll happen

tempest single target sucks

XD

[grim mason]

So pb then

[balmy condor]

well if you really dislike CT

sure

but you're going to do less damage because of it

CT in aoe is just too good to not take atm in m+

and the fact that its almost equal to pb in single target is just disgusting

such is unbalanced prepatch

[grim mason]

oh yeah Know ct for M+ sorry i was talking about Single target above

sin feeling clunky atm for me meh

[balmy condor]

yeah for pure single target, PB is still slightly ahead of CT

[grim mason]

might test out Pirate later this week

frost mage and lock seems to be my main in the xpac even thos this is prepatch

Love sin tho 😦

[balmy condor]

I'm just glad its slowing down again

being gcd capped as sin felt weird to me

was cool for a little

and then got old

[grim mason]

true

wait when I vanish should I be using Ambush!?

lmao I didnt even see this is back

[balmy condor]

not in prepatch

in shadowlands we will

[grim mason]

ok

yeah I don't know how i feel about SnD

alright thanks for answering my q's, I am sure I am late to the party lol Thanks once again @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

:) happens man

glad to help

[grim mason]

ohh one more thing they changed the sound q for EP!!!!!

I got s use to it

[balmy condor]

huh?

[grim mason]

it use to be louder

[balmy condor]

you had a sound cue for ep?

[grim mason]

The sound it use to make was louder wasnt it?

[balmy condor]

elaborate planning?

[grim mason]

wait let me check here 1 sec

[balmy condor]

that would be a sound cue from your weakauras

elaborate planning doesn't make a sound

[grim mason]

yeah, when I did a finishing moves it made a sound

was it WA!? all this time

lmao

[balmy condor]

yeah lmao

ep doesn't have a sound attached to it

[grim mason]

bout to test with wa on 1 sec

huh nah it doesnt wth WA i could have sworn it did

man I must have been bugging I alwasy assumed it was EP but its not there now

[balmy condor]

yeah its definitely some addon tracking it or something

[grim mason]

so 121ilvl equipped 3.1k dps that sound about right?

ST

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xbcgM3V12mwaG4ikXZ5p6P

had to op for a few ilvl lower for more vers

[balmy condor]

ilvl is king

oh wait that's clf

mb

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iaxhhinJ64LYby9kwBi4yc

there ya go

[ionic vault]

It says for m+ that haste is last however whenever I sim I always get max dps when I switch to haste chants and haste gems..

[balmy condor]

can you link it

[ionic vault]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tsRFNmt3xACMMURGbKWu2V

[balmy condor]

you're only simming haste gems

also that's a single target sim

[ionic vault]

youre right I fucked up the boss settings, as for gems I dont have premium so I have to do multiple sims

[balmy condor]

ye hold on a second

I gotchu

[grim mason]

clf?

[balmy condor]

condensed life force

I was simming with it and forgot to change XD

[grim mason]

oh you were responding to a different convo

wasnt show it, was showing your response under mine

[balmy condor]

that is in response to you

the sim under that is your char

I deleted the clf sim

[grim mason]

oh let me look

[ionic vault]

is it true that we should stop stacking a certain stats past (+25%) ?

[balmy condor]

not really

there is a diminishing return

but that doesn't inherently mean "stop stacking this stat"

[grim mason]

wait @balmy condor how did you get 3.4k?

[balmy condor]

wdym

the changes to your equipped gear are highlighted

if you scroll down, you can see different combinations in list form as well if you prefer that

[grim mason]

did you do the gear optimization?

[balmy condor]

not sure what that means

its just the items in your bags

[grim mason]

yeah I am seeing em now than, yea I mean the Top gear sim

[balmy condor]

I didn't use items you don't have

oh

yes

top gear is like 98% of the sims I run

[grim mason]

I hadnt done that was just reading tooltips of items I had

lol

[balmy condor]

ye always sim :P

@ionic vault https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4FFAVuqL4GGJ1zrvjCB9TE

looks like haste/vers chants are within margin

[fallow otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8NJcU1rCXSQjyK4FUvSfee

Is blood the move now whisp

[balmy condor]

yeah

has been

CLF was the hype for the first day

but then optimizations came in

[marsh fjord]

Guys i've been reading trough some post on wowhead and the pins here, the low energy gain few months ago has been a bit better now ?

[balmy condor]

its about where it was in 8.2

maybe a little higher

it'll get slower in shadowlands

sin is pretty fast compared to normal still

[marsh fjord]

yeah that's for sure.

thanks for answering.

[balmy condor]

np

[drifting cloud]

yeah still cant tab out

smh

[ionic vault]

god dang, thanks @balmy condor

[marsh fjord]

it's actually so hard to find a main nowadays

[balmy condor]

@ionic vault np

[fallow otter]

Essences carrying hard atm

[balmy condor]

yuppp

[fallow otter]

Azerite also carrying

You know we do the same damage

As 60 with legends

It's kinda stupid

[balmy condor]

oh boy

stunkei tilting again

[drifting cloud]

what ilvl are the sl default profiles?

[fallow otter]

10 levels though 😩

[balmy condor]

@drifting cloud

that's the preraid profile

[drifting cloud]

is 183 from m0?

id assume so I guess since normal is what 200

or is it actual heroic gear since its blue

[balmy condor]

can't check atm

uhhhhh

m0 is 183

seems like

heroic dungeons are 170, normals are 157

[drifting cloud]

yeah makes sense

181 overall, I guess that goes to like 210-215 pretty fast once the raid is out

[balmy condor]

yeah

[drifting cloud]

if this game ever even comes out

[fleet whale]

were back to wotlk ilvls lol

Naxx 10 man was 200 ilvl, with 25man being 213

[fleet whale]

hopefully sin gets a little buff

[grim mason]

So do we ever change to Dungeon slice for M+ Simming?

[balmy condor]

yup

that's the play

you can also do like a 1min sim with 5ish mobs

but dungeon slice is usually solid

[fleet whale]

i remember the days when this channel hated dungeon slice lol

like a year ago

[balmy condor]

yeah

my main complaint was small pack sizes

but that got changed

so I'm happy

[fleet whale]

I hope i'll be able to run sin in M+ in SL

and not have people go to me an be like "lol go outlaw lol"

[balmy condor]

I mean

"go sub"

lmao

[fallow otter]

Well whats the advantages now

Let's assume damage is the same

Still got gouge

Lost reposte

Lost prey constantly and stuns without losing dmg

Extra 3 yards range is l huge still but in aoe I guess not that bad

[fleet whale]

they actually didn't lose reposte

it's baked into evasion now, it's a perk they get while leveling

[fallow otter]

Yeah I guess we can remove that

It's still 10s

[chilly marsh]

guys look : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qjNuJAnJT6Rwc8HLdkwgN1

[balmy condor]

what about it

[chilly marsh]

see gems

[drifting cloud]

now switch enchants

[balmy condor]

shadowlands gems

yeah

okay

[chilly marsh]

nop

BC gems

[drifting cloud]

its not sl its bc

[balmy condor]

oh

well

meh

gonna get replaced anyways

[chilly marsh]

heroic bc dgs drop gems

[grim mason]

A @balmy condor u see when you do envenom and then you get the animation around your character with the cicrcle going from bottom to top, that sound it makes while it does that, before pre patch for me it was way louder

[fallow otter]

U sure it's not envenom?

[grim mason]

and i assumeed that was EP sound que

[chilly marsh]

this game is soo bug right now

lol

[grim mason]

yes I am sure

any finishing move

even with rup

that sound use to be louder before I am sure of it now

[balmy condor]

its prepatch and they level squished, and ilvl squished, and redid leveling

to be expected that things are janky

[grim mason]

yeah I am sure they quieted that sound

I use to use it as a marker in raid that I had EP select and not MP

for M+ lol

[balmy condor]

mp in m+

begone satan

[grim mason]

lmao wasn't that the go to prior to prepatch?

[balmy condor]

100% not

[grim mason]

no shot

what was it

[balmy condor]

EP

[grim mason]

fuck man

I used it with PB in m+ plebbing my way through

😦

[balmy condor]

PB was okay on tyrannical weeks with a crit build

[grim mason]

I was all crit

[chilly marsh]

let me show you a SS of 3 gems i got the same dg

[grim mason]

I never chached according to affixes till I came here

[chilly marsh]

some have 1+1 other 2+2 and one 5+4

[grim mason]

and it was too late then for me gear wise as i pugged all my M+

[chilly marsh]

every gem you drop cam bug soem value

[balmy condor]

so they're decent gems

[grim mason]

are those the BC gems, are they even worht it will they see the way of their error and squish em too?

[balmy condor]

probably worth it if they don't get hotfixed

but then again

"worth" in this situation

is like maybe 1% dps

in prepatch, where optimizing is already kinda not "worth"

[chilly marsh]

they bugged a lot

[balmy condor]

if you want the big epeen, go for it

[chilly marsh]

some drops with pre patch stats

[grim mason]

yeah i see , and I find myslef doing that knowing damn well its pre patch

[chilly marsh]

others didnt get squished

im farmign more to see

[balmy condor]

if they aren't squished, they're going to get hotfixed

[chilly marsh]

also got one 10 ver 6 int

[fleet whale]

i remember the bfa pre patch you could put a gem slot on a belt

because that item didn't account for the squish yet lol

[balmy condor]

yeah, with the sheer size of the game, it's hard to not overlook something

par for the course

[chilly marsh]

check this lock 100% nzoth

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KfLPC3Xc974zFdmb#fight=6&type=summary&source=12&translate=true

he is using a 3 slot head and 3 slot pants

[balmy condor]

yep

[chilly marsh]

so funny lol

[balmy condor]

that's what happens when you level squish and condense 15 years of content into the same ecosystem

#JustPrepatchThings

XD

[chilly marsh]

so true

and im now farmign old gems for the lol

weird thing is each gem is squished diferrently but beofre pre patch they all used to give +5 +4

now some is 1+1 or 2+2 5+4 and 10+6

[fallow otter]

Probably better to focus on other things in life

😜

[chilly marsh]

for sure but its a boring pre patch

now i have sometign to do lol

[fallow otter]

Played all the specs?

Level alts is actually fun also

[strange python]

Farm visions, sick entertainment value in that

[grim mason]

hey wouldnt pocket size computation device be worth it with a red car or even yeloow 24cri 8 haste

tho its ilvl 74, similar to the caster ilvl 74 card that gives 112 haste

[fallow otter]

Compendium is busted

[chilly marsh]

found a better one :

[fallow otter]

It's like 90% uptime

[chilly marsh]

5 crit 4 ver

[grim mason]

busted as in bad or good lol?

[balmy condor]

busted good

[chilly marsh]

funny same gem i got in 2 diferrent dgs

[grim mason]

i thought so I have one with a yelow card 24 crit 8haste

[chilly marsh]

in one dg the gem drops 1+1

in the other one 5+4

[grim mason]

do cards show in dungeon loot tables?

nvm yep

man I had some of these cards too

and I just used up my item restore for the week sigh

[lucid oak]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

elaborate planning + snd breaks stealth lmao

[balmy condor]

yep

they found it on beta like 2 weeks before prepatch

and it never got fixed

[grim mason]

hey is car still the go to boss for wep, or 1st bos?

I guess cara for iilvl?

cara**

[balmy condor]

yes

[grim mason]

oof

is there any good communitie out there that runs em weekly

[balmy condor]

heroic is usually just guild or pugs

if you can't get the mythic ones that is

you can find people selling mythic cara/nzoth pretty easily

or again, guild

[grim mason]

yeah no shot, not getting invis to mythic

I was hard stuck at 11/12 from like 8 months ago

just came back right before pre patch

[balmy condor]

11/12 should be able to get you a trial

[sick scarab]

i just got 2 gems

5 agi + crit..

mm

[shrewd night]

I mean

No wait, I don't. NVM.

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

does mastery work with nothing personal and dd?

[balmy condor]

yes

[strange python]

ty

[winter yew]

Im curious, Sub getting hyped up alot atm. But are there still people staying with Sin in Sl?

[grim mason]

All day er day

[vestal wren]

i don't think a lot of players play assassination on beta

[balmy condor]

there's a few

but not a ton

seli for example still plays sin

there's a lot of sub hype train and outlaw mains though

[uneven marsh]

Still seems to be the go-to spec for ST fights in a progress raid environment, no ?

[low girder]

sin stayed fairly static compared to bfa so i wouldn't expect people to play it over the two specs that definitely did get a decent amount of changes

in beta*

[balmy condor]

depends how much sub gets nerfed/sin gets buffed @uneven marsh

currently sin is a decent chunk behind, big enough to make it not worth

but there's some niche situations like with zoldyck where it could be the play

still way too soon to tell

[uneven marsh]

Hope sin will just be a bit behind, not that far.
Played sub in Legion and hated all the burst windows with DFA stuff.
If the fight goes bad or your CDS are up when you have to do mechanics, you basically lose a ton of hypothetical damage done.
That could be toned down with good knowledge of the fight and CD management, but at the start of a tier, we do not possess this experience, so...
I don't know, what do you guys think?

[vestal wren]

sub and outlaw are just numerical better atm on beta