3%
#assassination
shrewd night
Poor mans tb
fleet whale
does basically no damage on the initial hit too
balmy condor
Than Just not using an ability
low girder
that's what i thought too, but like i said taking TB and not using it vs using it
was like 4%
granted that was using SS
fleet whale
imagine if symbols of death was scuffed and was on a gcd
that's what shiv feels like lol
fallow otter
I might be shooting chaos bolts koffing have to see how melee gets the shaft for prog
fleet whale
btw on beta
balmy condor
Shiennar already shoots chaos bolts
shrewd night
So, question right
fleet whale
snd rank 2 doesn't do anything
low girder
yeah
fleet whale
it's a broken perk
shrewd night
If you stack up full bleeds
shrewd night
Press exsang, then shiv to spread it.
low girder
because i'm an idiot
shrewd night
Does it move empowered bleeds?
fallow otter
Haven't tested
fleet whale
and i'm pretty sure the perk that makes it so that you apply your poisons when you attack in stealth
is broken too
balmy condor
Tiny toxic doesn’t work still
fallow otter
Sounds like an energy fiesta
balmy condor
So we don’t know
low girder
yeah it's broken
shrewd night
KEK
low girder
both of those
fleet whale
too many rogues are playing sub on beta
low girder
hey at least shiv works
balmy condor
Beta btw
fleet whale
so a lot of people don't really notice
fleet whale
the stealth poison perk was added back in like what
May?
and it's still doesn't work lol
fleet whale
shiv doesn't even have a real animation
fleet whale
ironically
low girder
i do
balmy condor
Mata you know better than that
fleet whale
some rogues may prefer if it didn't proc sf
fleet whale
could potentially make er a little easier to manage
low girder
it would
fallow otter
Smurf irl confirmed
fleet whale
whatever happened to Zine?
balmy condor
He retired
fallow otter
Rezined
balmy condor
Gtfo
fallow otter
Victory
shrewd night
Every time colored names go into spec channels we get a permanent -20 int debuff
low girder
yw
fleet whale
We should make Dratnos a community figure
shrewd night
And before you say anything, red is a color.
fleet whale
even though he like barely is on here lol
fallow otter
DH 
fleet whale
i miss his tier lists though
shrewd night
Just go to wowmeta for your tierlist needs
fallow otter
Same accuracy
low girder
he said the banned word
balmy condor
Oof
low girder
😮
balmy condor
Koffing needs to filter himself
fleet whale
What was really funny after wowmeta
is when Icy veins posted their own SL tier list like two weeks later
fleet whale
it was still sketch
fallow otter
Get so many views from making vids about rankings for SL but the content is instantly void its so weird
IV wanted the article for clicks
fleet whale
i mean tier lists in general generate clicks
low girder
but i feel like BDG didn't necessarily want to write one
but they were like oh shit MONEY
fallow otter
Why not
fleet whale
i can't wait for Method to post their tier list
fallow otter
It's not like it's a lie if you date it
shrewd night
Like
All tier lists from w20 guilds do
Is fuck up community perception even more
I would rather they didnt.
fleet whale
they don't really care
balmy condor
But they’re better than you
fleet whale
about community perception lol
balmy condor
So you can’t disagree
fallow otter
i can't wait for Method to post their tier list
@fleet whale biggest fuck ups for a guild tier list?
low girder
method needs players before it can write a tier list
shrewd night
Sure, they are better than me. But joe schmoe who just started raiding lfr is trying to determine if Im good enough for a +5 key
fleet whale
Method is obviously top of that list
low girder
not like sco's gonna write it
fleet whale
sco is gonna be gone from the public eye for a few years
balmy condor
Link gearscore @shrewd night
fallow otter
Say that to his video
low girder
^
shrewd night
fleet whale
is sco still swole?
low girder
idk
low girder
kinda?
fallow otter
Method sinned
fleet whale
it's like 3:58 AM
fallow otter
We on topic
fleet whale
i should probably go to bed
fallow otter
It's not a thing here anymore
low girder
playing sin was where i caught up on my bad sleep schedule
but then corruption happened
low girder
and now i gotta mash keys like a fury warr
fleet whale
if you literally facerolled on your keyboard playing assassin
how would your dps be?
fallow otter
Unlimited energy
fallow otter
So good
low girder
Turns out you can really just mash buttons randomly as Assassination 10% of the time and it really doesn't matter 😛
- Kojiyama 2020
fallow otter
If you bound mut to one side and envenom to the other probs do ok
fleet whale
so i heard from an inside source that they aren't done with venom rush buffs yet
i heard they are gonna make it so that your mut deals 20% more damage as poison
on poisoned targets
low girder
#revertVRtoLegion
shrewd night
"Inside" sources from method isnt worth shit
balmy condor
Just turn VR into DD
low girder
also is that more or increased dmg
fleet whale
nah my inside source comes from BDG
low girder
balmy condor
No one will notice
fleet whale
it's wod version was good
fallow otter
Doomblade Mutilate deals an additional 20% Bleed damage over 8 sec. Envenom damage increased by 5% for each Bleed you have on the target.
Slot: Shoulder, Hands
fleet whale
the legion version was good
balmy condor
Vendetta already gives energy
fleet whale
yeah, but i want more energy
balmy condor
Be grateful for what you have
shrewd night
Grateful for being sin
fleet whale
i think it was
shrewd night
fleet whale
you had 15 more energy
and each enemy you had poisoned increased energy regen
up to three enemies
fleet whale
yeah that's it
low girder
i imagine that's the beta name
fleet whale
yeah
shrewd night
Patch 7.0.3 (2016-07-19): Now available only to Assassination rogues and redesigned. Now causes [Venomous Wounds] to grant 3 additional Energy each time it grants Energy.
low girder
yeah i remember the legion one very well
fleet whale
because you didn't use anything else
balmy condor
Legion design is good :(
shrewd night
Mata sitting here like an old grandpa being all kids, when I was young
fleet whale
Venom rush was a sub talent too back in WoD
low girder
nah i'm basically a wod baby
fleet whale
i played assassin in hfc
low girder
5 years 
shrewd night
dw, wod was before whispyr was born
fleet whale
it was so underplayed
fleet whale
that there were only like 5 other sin rogues in my bracket for logs looool
balmy condor
low girder
i wonder if i literally ever played sin in hfc
fleet whale
it was good at the very start
cause execute damage and sub didn't quite have all the stuff yet
that made it op
low girder
oh shit i did
fleet whale
if you played sin in hfc after about a month or two
people thought you were a meme
or trolling your raid
low girder
i remember hfc fondly too but i also did an ungodly amount of sales
so that probably helped
fleet whale
speaking of HFC
the raid is much larger when you enter the instance
than what it looks outside
low girder
yeah
safe marsh
some1have full patchnotes form beta this week ?
kind kraken
sick scarab
anyone knows what item lvlv the old tribnkets will be ? like icecrown trinkets ?
kind kraken
Assuming you mean the Pre-Patch Event drops: Nyalotha Normal Level
shadow tulip
N'ya norm ilvl in prepatch is 100, so that's that
summer nest
Pre-Patch is on the 13th?
shrewd night
ye
sick scarab
i mean what will be the item level of old trinkets after the squish ?
summer nest
What trinkets?
sick scarab
deathbringher will for example
main blaze
If you are wondering for something like herald, I think they scaled all of that
shadow tulip
The actual DBV from ICC raid is ilvl 35
sick scarab
so no point farming these ok 🙂
green forge
Hi guys,
Since pre-patch coming soon & I didn’t read that much about what coming next, I was wondering which spec we should play during prepatch, is assa spec still the best option for raids ?
shrewd night
Play what you want. Balance is whack and no-one should care about prepatch because of it.
Assa is missing some tools they get during leveling so that may have an impact on sin performance.
desert delta
How are we play on Prepatch? Haste Build on Asssa Still worth it?
grizzled jay
@sterile jackal that trinket is nuts in m+
errant hull
isnt the reason haste on assa worked really well this last patch is because we were able to get it to absurd levels because of corruptions?
its not like it matters anyways, you cant keys, all you can do is tmog runs
or raid i guess
strange python
scuffed bote
fleet sinew
Sorry if this has been dicussed already but how is venthyr lookin
vestal wren
not functional atm
but mystler did a speculative implementation and linked it in #tc-research
fleet sinew
Thank you
vestal wren
tl;dr: it could be op, but needs to be evaluated once it works
tender folio
Da hell Kyrian is now the best for assa ?
arctic walrus
is that outside of the bug
balmy condor
Yes
royal lantern
chilly mist
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
smoky bluff
:pain:
winter glade
So once prepatch hits are we back to our poison bomb non bleed build? or is it best to just go Sub?
winter glade
is there reliable data on how much difference there will be between sin and sub?
grizzled jay
Evis doesn't have r2 on ptr i don't think
balmy condor
low girder
it does, the only thing sub is missing at 50 is shadow vault and storm r2
er
black powder
could still be more tuning before it finally hits live, and i would bet money there will be more afterwards
not a lot, but some
well and numbing poison i guess
near pilot
we going back to double doe and NP pre patch right
balmy condor
yep
near pilot
thx
surreal solar
Hopefully the tuning passes to come will bring us back to the 1-2% gap rogues have usually maintained
grizzled jay
'usually'? usually one spec is definitively the best lol
surreal solar
sure, but the other two aren't ever far behind
balmy condor
laughs in sub
surreal solar
gotta give them the benefit of the doubt, 9/10 i forget sub exists
grizzled jay
in wod both were pretty far behind sub
royal lantern
ye,idk, i get somewhat of a dejavu at this point
we have people that say"assassination is always good!" when assassination was pretty dog during wod and was not better then sub for 50%of legion
and the ussual" all 3 specs are somewhat close" wich also was almost never the case lel
like, with the way the 3specs work it will probably always be X+outlaw
grizzled jay
assassination is always good for prog unless outside sources (like tier sets + rings) pushes sub or outlaw ahead of it.
royal lantern
ye like i said: idk, its just funny too see how for many people the headcanon aperrantly is reality at this point lel
i remember before we got alpha/beta,and you always read from some sub/outlaw guys "OMG assassiation is ALWAYS OP RAIDSPEC NEVER BAD"
and im like
bruh
"IT IS THE BEST RAIDSPEC FOR YEARS NOW" ->it was somewhat better then sub for antorus,was ~the better raid option trought bfa, but outlaw was still better on quite some fights lel
i just like too see that stuff^^
low girder
i played sub on kingaroth for ages
royal lantern
kingaroth as sub progress was fun
royal lantern
MY SPOT BEHIND HIM
balmy condor
get your entire raid to rotate 180 degrees
low girder
it was
vestal wren
sin would have been the better choice for me on kingaroth
my rl was super pepega about assigning me to groups that would be on boss sides that would make using dfa hard
shadow tulip
Calling assassination "sin", why?
balmy condor
because assassination is really long
and sin is shorter
and ass is uh
not really the short form you're looking for
balmy condor
there's people that call it assa
but at least in NA, a majority say sin
I rarely see people call it assa
idk bout other regions
shadow tulip
"Sin" gives me math ptsd from high school...
vestal wren
i agree, we should abbreviate it with "assass"
balmy condor
I think we should rename it to "robber in liquidation"
shadow tulip
LoL
shadow tulip
Tbh, it only sounds nasty in english...
dark crag
Meucheln Schurke
slender berry
stabby boi
strange python
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
shut garnet
is this the cutthroat highwayman channel
snow plinth
might be a dumb question but, im gearing up a rogue atm in preparation for Shadowlands, and looking at icy-veins (since wowhead is telling me SL stuff not BFA), theres two stat guidlines, haste on top for raids or haste on bottom for M+. Do you guys think i should follow the M+ itemization since its most similar an environment to leveling/open world? or should i follow the raid one
balmy condor
Won’t matter all too much tbh
The haste is fine
And once the prepatch swaps over, your best bet is probably going to be item level, and a mix of stats, with a little more haste
Sin has pretty close stat weightings compared to some other specs
snow plinth
ahhh gotcha
balmy condor
Especially in shadowlands, Ilvl is king
grim jay
I'd only care for getting a decent ilvl if you really wanna just gear for shadowlands since you will replace your stuff while leveling anyways bcs of ilvl
snow plinth
ahhh i see, gotcha
grim jay
uh btw
did they say something about getting a sync on ranks of cloak or neck?
in terms of their level
balmy condor
Not yet
snow plinth
How is that working btw? I think i read that like, neck and azerite are active so long as its not level capped SL content?
balmy condor
Yeah
I think azerite and essences turn off at 60, don’t quote me on it
But we don’t have a word on ilvl concerns with the neck
Considering it’s better than heroic raid necklaces at high enough level
I would assume they’d do something about it
But idk
low girder
they turn off immediately in new zones
grim jay
no word on giving everyone max rank cloak/neck before sl I guess? 😄
low girder
afaik
balmy condor
Oh no that’s not happening davyn
Max neck doesn’t even exist
So it’s kinda rough in that regard
But if essences/traits turn off instantly
Ez pz
You replace cloak at like 56
And replace neck during heroic week
And gg ez
sterile jackal
As i was lvling on beta i was thinking about replacement of azerite pieces. At 55 lvl we start to get higher ilvl blue chests/helmets. Azerite do not have secondary stats but they have like 2x agility and stamina compared to blue sl items. Do you think it is better to get secondary stats or keep them for agi/stam?
golden axle
Re: neck sync... A friend in beta said his main with a 94 neck and alt with 91 said they got baselined to the original ilevel of the neck. I don’t know if that’s because they were close though? I can try and test later with an alt.
Could just be both pieces being close enough anyway that it just appeared that way.
Ignore me, just tested and my friend lies 🙂
agile spire
will sims work in pre patch?
grizzled jay
Secondary stats are not better than the raw Agility from Azerite pieces
grizzled trail
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
austere grove
anyone here running beta? any updates in the last few weeks?
royal lantern
covenants are pretty balanced number wise right now, slice&dice is still a garbage ability that should burn in hell
all legendarys for pretty much all classes got nerfed
thats it tbh
austere grove
i know its likely to change but which cov's are looking strongest? i really dont want to play kyrian 😦
or are they close enough it doesnt matter?
pseudo hamlet
Kyrian best
grizzled jay
ER and SBS for AoE, ER and Sepsis for ST. Flagellation potentially for ST, but needs more testing.
austere grove
i love the aesthetic of SBS & the fact its ranged so im really hoping that isnt the worst one
grizzled jay
it's only good in one specific instance, and that's a long boss fight with 2+ targets you can keep it on indefinitely
ancient ocean
hey quick question
i have a macro for blood fury, vendetta, and trinket
all work on it, except trinket? can i do all 3 at once?
grizzled jay
is this live or ptr
ancient ocean
live
i have a line with /use, but doesn't go off
#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/use Corrupted Gladiator's Maledict
/cast Blood Fury
grizzled jay
do you have it equipped
ancient ocean
yep
ancient ocean
oh, so i'll try it with trinket on own key then
bitter crow
it will work if you press it twice
ancient ocean
if i spam click it'll work?
bitter crow
GCDs and all
frigid kestrel
#showtooltip Vendetta
/use Vendetta
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Blood Fury
@ancient ocean Try that ^
and keep it, that way you never have to adjust for any 2 minute trinket again
ancient ocean
Ty
balmy condor
there are no shadowlands guides out yet
frigid kestrel
It wasnt last i checked
blissful trout
for prepatch
balmy condor
we don't use shiv in prepatch
blissful trout
i thought it just was just base toxic blade
balmy condor
its 20% vs toxic blades 30%, and that 20% only shows up on rank 2 at level 56
blissful trout
also the wow head guide includes slice and dice for us
balmy condor
so shiv in prepatch is actually just instant damage
and not a lot of damage
so you just don't cast it
blissful trout
fair enough
low girder
slice and dice is included, it will be a thing you keep up, it's a large amount of dmg
on ST, idk if fuu has played around with dropping it in aoe
blissful trout
yea i didn't realise that shiv wouldn't become toxic blade until 56
kind of threw me off
balmy condor
we maintain in aoe as well I think
don't quote me on it
but it lasts so long
its worth the cp most likely
low girder
yeah i figured, just thought i'd throw the idea out since i know sub drops it at 6+
fading wigeon
I wish slice.and dice wasn't unpruned. Lol just one extra thing to keep up. Kind of annoying. Was playing beta last night and it didn't feel goos
Good*
balmy condor
I like it tbh
frigid kestrel
been so long since it was a thing, and last i remembered when it was a thing it auto refreshed on Evis or something
low girder
i dunno about when that was, but in wod at least when i came back it just became passive
while leveling
jagged axle
S&D was available in WoD
strange python
having beta is a beta move tbh
jagged axle
on assass
strange python
ass
frigid kestrel
ye i misspoke, on the xpacs that i played
I didnt play MOP and i came back in when WOD was dead
jagged axle
i think it had energy regen in WoD as well
frigid kestrel
My bad
jagged axle
iirc
low girder
it wasn't available in wod for sin
idk where you're getting that from
it was entirely passive, that was a leveling upgrade
verbal stirrup
our rogue bros that have beta access, is kyrian still meta for every case ?
balmy condor
yes
vestal wren
yes it is
verbal stirrup
and the playstyle remains just use it for the straight ability damage , and use finishers when they happen to randomly land on the supercharged CP ?
balmy condor
pretty much yeah
frigid kestrel
i think you play into using it for a empowered Envenom after using Shiv
balmy condor
that's optimal
fleet whale
so is it odd while leveling i actually like sepsis the most lol
charred ermine
Is sin looking any better in shadowlands?
trying to decide rogue or ww but i know theres so much tuning to go on still
balmy condor
20% behind sub right now
wouldn't bother thinking about numbers
if you don't enjoy juggling snd
and poison damage
then probably not better
charred ermine
oh alright
balmy condor
its a finisher
charred ermine
yeah its being added back right
balmy condor
yes
fleet whale
sadly yes
marsh vortex
^ very sadly
fleet whale
nah, 35 apm is assassin class fantasy
low girder
does not hating it count as like
charred ermine
i dont mind it doesnt it make energy regen faster?
vestal wren
i don't hate it but the spec is terribly slow so it feels like an additional chore
frigid kestrel
If SnD gave more energy regen it would feel more rewarding
charred ermine
i think all right
frigid kestrel
I dont mind SnD at all, i just dont Feel the difference when i play
fleet whale
i actually really like sepsis for sin from a gameplay perspective
verbal stirrup
fucking hate maintaining such buffs
fleet whale
it's a really fun ability
charred ermine
thats why im leaning towards my WW i dont love pve on rogue lol
fleet whale
also blizz, please add deadly momentum as a passive
fleet whale
so leveling can feel better
balmy condor
and honestly 45 apm ain't that bad imo
verbal stirrup
im leaning towards havoc lmao, thats why im here trying to get convinced by you guys
fleet whale
45 is fine yes
frigid kestrel
@balmy condor im all for more buttons, but i just want to feel what they are doing
fleet whale
it won't be 45 at launch though
balmy condor
?
charred ermine
i hope dh is terrible
balmy condor
with bs and alac its pretty close
charred ermine
no offence lol
balmy condor
with raid gear you'll get to 45
fleet whale
well that's with raid gear
charred ermine
only thing i hate vsing in arena is dh or dk's lol
balmy condor
yeah
fleet whale
in green and blues it's gonna feel bad unless you're getting god blindside procs
balmy condor
big whoop
verbal stirrup
indeed i dont mind having many buttons, just snd sounds better as a passive lol
balmy condor
we're gonna be in dungeons with 60 apm anyway in greens and blues
you're not doing single target with greens and blues
leveling is whatever
dungeons are fast
who cares about 30 apm during leveling
frigid kestrel
Play sub until you get enough gear for Sin to have a great apm for you to have fun
Boom
balmy condor
level with sub
hit dungeons
swap to sin
45 apm by second week raid
ez pz
"sin so slow wah"
frigid kestrel
Both specs (to me) feel fun to play with. I love my Sin, but Sub is also fun af.
But OUtlaw
naaaa
I dont know what it is, but i severely despise that pirate rogue spec......... but thats a convo for general. Waiting to see what else changes for Sin in the near future
low girder
i'm hoping for actual ability buffs
but it'll prolly just be an aura
sadly
imo our abilities aren't impactful enough vs white dmg
frigid kestrel
Ye melee being top damage on a fantasy class based on poison's and Bleeds dont feel right
glacial timber
outlaw is dead to me, is no longer a pirate but a shitty combat rogue again
roll the bones being a buff instead of a spender is just awful
balmy condor
wdym that's the best change they could've made aside from deleting rtb entirely
glacial timber
i liked thr rng part of it, rolling until u get the buff u want or double/5 buffs
balmy condor
that's a very very rare opinion to have
glacial timber
at least is still good for aoe, plus the dreadblades abilitie is back
but i like ass more
balmy condor
yeah dreadblades is actually awful
glacial timber
good 👍
balmy condor
most people hate snd
verbal stirrup
its gonna reduce the general finishers per min
low girder
it's still a finisher
balmy condor
finishers per minute is actually the same
you're not generating less cp
or more
or less energy
or more
frigid kestrel
@verbal stirrup once you get use to keeping it up it’ll be a min factor. SnD last for I think 36 seconds, you barely even notice it.
fleet whale
I just don't really like it for leveling. Bring back deadly momentum
for those unaware, it was a glyph that refreshed snd each time you landed a killing blow
grizzled jay
it was a talent as well
idle star
@verbal stirrup using SnD as a finisher at 5cp is worth more dmg than a single Envenom at 5cp. How are you losing finishers per minute?
ivory helm
It is crazy how strong is white dmg in SL. SnD is now so powerful
balmy condor
not to this extent
cinder field
i beg to differ ^^
balmy condor
not really something you can differ on
considering melee's were strictly less in uldir than they are in shadowlands
versed mica
but i like ass more
@glacial timber yes, what you like is definitely ass.
discussion
versed mica
It's real gamer hours my guy
gray pivot
What kind of packages are the best?
Which attributes are important for the shadow country?
surreal flame
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
minor thicket
I’ve got a question why does wowhead prepatch guide for rogue have crit and verse over haste. In fact haste is last? I always sim but I’m curious as to why it changed from haste as priority and now it’s crit and verse
minor thicket
Ah of course
balmy condor
slice and dice also has a bit to do with it tbh
balmy condor
then good thing sin is barely changing
minor thicket
Has outlaw changed much
balmy condor
kinda
rtb is a cooldown not a finisher, bte is a pure damage boost, doesn't stun, kidney's coming back
those are the basic highlights
minor thicket
10-4
lofty pecan
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
versed mica
how does snd effect why we don't like haste as much?
balmy condor
haste primarily gives us energy and increases tick rate from our bleed/poisons
with memory still available and alacrity, the energy isn't really an issue
and slice and dice adds a ton of melee damage and instant poison damage
so a larger portion of our damage isn't directly dots
therefore other stats like vers are worth more
versed mica
Oh, essentially you're saying snd brings in a lot of white damage and instant poison, which means crit and vers, raw damage increasers, tend to be better
makes sense
balmy condor
yep yep :)
and since the energy gain is covered by memory and iris
don't need to omega scale it for that either
versed mica
I'm assuming that once we go to shadowlands and those essences are gone, haste will be good again?
balmy condor
yup
strange python
where is the prepatch guide? I had it bookmarked but getting 404 error now
balmy condor
Wowhead has a section on it
strange python
weird, thought ravenholdt had one
balmy condor
Sub I think is updated for shadowlands
But not prepatch
Prepatch is meaningless and only around for a month
So there’s no big theorycrafting efforts going into it
pastel hatch
Im gonna miss this high APM so much :(. Just did JY casually sitting at 90% base haste with grease bot.
tender folio
So regarding pre-patch just to use our myth+ gear for everything now since we will get haste from other sources ?
balmy condor
haste is still fine
you just don't want to giga haste like you did before
high ilvl pieces will win
tender folio
ty
weak jay
Hi I'm a noob to rogue but I was wondering if there is any penalty for not using a dagger in offhand? Seems like I can use all abilities with a dagger in main and any weapon in off
I looked for guide but didn't see it mentioned
shy dust
You cannot press mutilate without two daggers
shy dust
Mutilate is our builder
balmy condor
shy dust
Whispyr slow 💤
balmy condor
I'm washed
shy dust
Had to have been good at one point to be washed sir
weak jay
Gotcha. I've been toying with sub while running old dungeons so I thought assassin may be the same
Thank you for that
low girder
sub should also use two daggers unless you have a way way higher ilvl non-dagger wep, just fyi
balmy condor
^
low girder
so you can share weps between specs that way as well
weak jay
I like the outlaw theme but its just not clicking for me. I've played sin and sub in the past and been hunting for another good dagger, just yet to find one
I gave it the college try for outlaw but think I'm going to make the switch to sin in prepatch
balmy condor
ilvl isn't very important for offhand
you should equip highest ilvl in mainhand
and then as long as you're not dropping like 40 ilvl you equip whatever in your offhand
weak jay
OK ill keep that in mind. Thank you!
kindred cliff
Question
Assa has 20 more energy than outlaw and sub baseline
Is there any passive that actually displays this?
low girder
not anymore, that i know of
balmy condor
not in the game
twilit glen
Soooooo
Im a long time warlock/boomy main right
But I’m looking to change what I main entirely
And I’ve never really had a max level rogue, that I’ve played at least
balmy condor
sure sure
twilit glen
So I just leveled this old random rogue I had from a WoD era boost
And while sub was sorta fun to level as
twilit glen
I’m not really sure if it’s something I can commit to for pvp and PvE at 120. Is assa looking good be really bad?
balmy condor
good time all around
balmy condor
sin is looking fine for pvp mostly, its still a rot style thing. the #pvp people can fill you in on more of the details there
in terms of pve
sin tends to struggle a little in dungeons without some help from expansion systems
in raids though, usually really good
twilit glen
Hmmmmm
balmy condor
we're currently ~20% behind sub in terms of raw dps
but obviously the tuning is coming eventually
twilit glen
Yeah I feel that
See the issue with us not knowing thi
Tho
Is I need to know what covenant looks best.. and all that shit ya know.
I can’t believe they didn’t do an open beta with the PHD thesis paper level of research u gotta do to pick a covenant
I mean I literally don’t have a fucking clue about any of that stuff
Like what’s the go to covenant for sin PvE
low girder
idk if it's 20% after the ES slap sub got
balmy condor
yeah I haven't rechecked
low girder
i don't think fuu's redone anything since it's not on beta yet
balmy condor
and @twilit glen the covenants have been pretty cut and dry most of the time
the pins have the sims
when things get tuned they swing quite a bit
so we've always had a good idea
fuu, koji, and mystler have been on top of it
I've been doing random sims as well
beta gets resimmed by the TC's within 24 hours of a build usually
kinda popping tbh
twilit glen
Well what I’m asking is... I’m trying to find out if the best m+ and Pvp covenant are the same covenant for sub or sin ... cuz I don’t wanna be limited to max effectiveness in just 1 game mode and I’ll play the most well rounded spec if I need to
Idk the whole thing is confusing to me tbh
low girder
yeah, and even when it is it's unlikely to be the same for both
balmy condor
but I wouldn't be too worried
blizzard has been actually quite good about balancing them
legendaries are mostly within 1.5-2% of each other
covenant stuff has been pretty close as well
low girder
flag will prolly need a rebalance once they actually make it work properly
20% haste is omegalul levels
twilit glen
Well I sure hope so. Cause I honestly really wanna play Assa if I’m gonna play rogue... but if it’s like current Aff lock dumpster tier in m+ or pvp i won’t be able to do it
balmy condor
sin won't be dumpster tier pvp for sure
poisons and the rot potential alone usually keeps it meta even when the damage is lower
m+ is definitely a little sketchy at the start of the expansion
but we have some help coming in the form of conduits
so it hopefully won't be too bad
twilit glen
Ok let’s send it... assa it is
urban thistle
Just here to make Whispyr's day 😄
outer lotus
outlaw raid
urban thistle
royal lantern
faint harness
outer condor
it sure is looking awfully bland
drowsy epoch
anyone have any tips on sub builds for beta?
balmy condor
outer condor
drowsy epoch
💩 👍 😆 my b
balmy condor
Name checks out
outer condor
how
drowsy epoch
17 hours in a row of beta testing should be asleep
balmy condor
Faded af 
outer condor
oh
shrewd night
glad horizon
rare coral
Panda 100%
balmy condor
Racials matter very little
Blood elf is a classic in m+ cause of the dispell
Troll has haste on use
verbal mantle
1% Crit as a BE too 
balmy condor
Ye
All in all though
Doesn’t matter one bit
They’re so close together it’s not even noticeable
rare coral
Having your own orbit as a panda is pretty good
carmine osprey
umbral rapids
whisp
sand pewter
I want to play nightborne rogue but they look so bad
outer condor
if it looks bad then what other reason do you have to want to play nightborne rogue
it's a caster race iirc
sand pewter
I just really liked their story in legion
im probably going to max 2 rogues, one belf and one goblin
violet drum
sand pewter
idk I just dont play alliance at all lol
i could do belf/human too but thats a little boring
outer condor
i don't play horde, but i'm eventually going to cause achieves
sand pewter
I used to play alliance in wotlk but my server died
outer condor
does it really matter? with the whole cross-realm thing
sand pewter
at the time it did lol
hallow kraken
You guys hyped for ass tomorrow? 
fair otter
Totally hyped to change a lot of stuff on my sin haha
dusky moon
i expect my dps to go to shit
mossy mulch
will the assasination rogue work fine in prepatch?
dusky moon
bye bye
median star
ass still the go to spec in preptach?
hallow kraken
What I have seen ass is literally ass in prepatch
fair otter
Most likely there will be less of a gap between all 3 specs in prepatch, while Sin will not be terrible it will not be near as good from what i have researched. I plan to try all 3 during raid to see how it looks
but I expect to feel slow and sluggish after having so much haste haha
muted maple
are they bringing shrouded suff or echoing blades to any of the shadowlands borrowed power systems?
split hound
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
fleet whale
note that you won't have the tb perk of shiv in pre-patch, as it is a level 58 perk
restive inlet
Can't say I'm looking too much forward to assassination in SL. Between SnD, garrote and rupture, making sure you keep up all three and keeping energy enough for the Shiv Window, will we ever have time to press Envenom outside of Shiv/vendetta?
I don't think so
sand pewter
the only change in that is SnD which lasts like 36 seconds
it wont be that much different
balmy condor
@muted maple no, but the fok conduit buffs poison application rate so there’s that
karmic cedar
1cp from Garrote feels so awful in beta after playing with SS for so long
muted maple
yeah its really started to feel like a staple
fleet whale
Yeah these are some of the problems with borrowed power systems
like vial giving DR in legion
sprint as a 47 second cd
mutilates critting more
old mirage
is the sub rogue better than the assa at pre patch?
fleet whale
run ripple major even
crude kelp
Hi. The Garrote pandemic is 5sec and the Rupture is 7sec. Correct?
low girder
5.4s for garrote, rupture depends on the original duration
5 vs 6 CPs
7.2s for 5, 8.4 for 6
balmy condor
pandemic is always a maximum of 30% duration of the dot you are reapplying
low girder
^
balmy condor
garrote is 18 seconds, so 30% of a new garrote will pandemic at 18*0.3=5.4 seconds
crude kelp
ye, im not good at %. @low girder tyvm
fleet whale
looking at hero damage, for pre patch it looks like we won't be using Iris minor for st
crude kelp
i looked at wowanalyser and i was missing it by 0.02sec, but i couldnt remember when i was refreshing anyways
low girder
yeah wowanalyzer isn't up to date atm
balmy condor
I wouldn't take it too seriously
low girder
hasn't been for a while
balmy condor
yeah varo
balmy condor
checks out with what we've been thinking for most of beta
fleet whale
i don't give af i'm not using coral in pre patch
low girder
lmao
fleet whale
i've had this dam 430 trinket for over a year
balmy condor
we kinda knew it would be strong
fleet whale
i'll use the alchemy one, plus i need space for snd
fleet whale
I don't have a plumage, I didn't really do a lot of M+ at all in 8.3
i do have a vita
balmy condor
use whatever tbh
fleet whale
yeah that's what i'm gonna do lol
I guess crucible is just tuned super high cause of the squish
might run blindside too just for fun
balmy condor
ye that's what it seems like with crucible
crimson palm
Gimme that 3x np vop major sim
low girder
balmy condor
already did
fleet whale
run 3x nop Vop major with blindside
proc blindside with every mut
80% vendetta uptime
balmy condor
how'd they buff vop
crimson palm
There was a vop buff in the notes
balmy condor
@crimson palm you mean this?
fleet whale
i can't decipher what that means
balmy condor
neither can I
but I can tell you that it doesn't actually change anything
vop still works identically to before
balmy condor
who knows
fallow otter
Vop got nerfed to 10% then they moved it back to 25% apparently
fleet sinew
jade lantern
How's assasination looking for prepatch? Is the bleed build still the way to go without corruptions?
balmy condor
yup
balmy condor
you maintain snd > rupture > envenom
in terms of finishers
and also don't use shiv in prepatch
low girder
yeah
balmy condor
shiv in prepatch is dead
balmy condor
won't matter
but probably
I think sims have sin > outlaw = sub
in single target
actually I take that back
just double checked
sub > sin = outlaw
by about 7%
fleet whale
do you think raidbots will work tomorrow?
balmy condor
dunno
its possible
if it doesn't, no big loss
anyone trying to optimize more than like what spec is better
is a clown
fleet whale
i just wanted to see sin apm with blindside, as silly as that may sound lol
peak jungle
With the removal of corruption tomorrow, what secondary stats will likely be the go-to choices? I want to clear out my bags of all this extra gear.
balmy condor
crit vers
peak jungle
for single target raid?
balmy condor
yes
peak jungle
for shadowlands leveling, do you think haste will be top due to energy starve? or still crit/vers
peak jungle
ahh my b
Maybe i'll just stay haste then, can't imagine raiding too much between now and then
Thanks!
subtle drift
In b4 3 months prepatch
delicate trench
m+ still gonna be crit / vers or should we go mastery instead ?
balmy condor
crit vers forever
delicate trench
we wont have toxic blade in pre patch ?
balmy condor
correct
delicate trench
what are we playing instead of it then ?
delicate trench
i have a super stupid doubt this is my first expansion change . so when we go to SL will raider io display s4 score or post season score ?
delicate trench
thank god
balmy condor
no one cares bout that shit