#assassination | Ravenholdt | Page 3816

fleet whale Oct 2, 2020, 11:57 PM

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so an aura buff

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almost lol

crimson palm Oct 2, 2020, 11:57 PM

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Well garrote is ok

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Fok also

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Rupture is very underwhelming

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I was comparing ep logs

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Envenom does 4-5% less dmg

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And mut with dd was a lot higher

fleet whale Oct 2, 2020, 11:59 PM

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And people said that sin doesn't rely on bfa systems smh

low girder Oct 2, 2020, 11:59 PM

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mut without DD hits like a wet fucking noodle

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envenom isn't much better

fleet whale Oct 2, 2020, 11:59 PM

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it's the new fantasy for assassin

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blizz doesn't want our abilities to actually do damage

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we just use our abilities to buff our passive damage

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 12:00 AM

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At least it plays fine

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So i don't mind it much

fleet whale Oct 3, 2020, 12:01 AM

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yeah but even when specs play well

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it doesn't feel good when you aren't doing that much damage

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 12:01 AM

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3 maintainable spells are pissing me off tho

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Can't get 3 envenoms in shiv consistently

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Always smth to refresh

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Don't care about dmg lmao

fleet whale Oct 3, 2020, 12:02 AM

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ah yes the cata sub rogue problem

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Just compare ur self to other assa

fleet whale Oct 3, 2020, 12:02 AM

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all of these buffs to maintain, very small windows to actually do burst

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 12:05 AM

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I don't mind em

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Can chill during progress and do smth else

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 12:34 AM

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@final saffron KS doesnt work with Er

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Only finishers that work are Envenom, Crimson Tempest, and Rupture

winged basin Oct 3, 2020, 12:37 AM

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is CT not supposed to work against Skitra?

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Just did not apply to Clone phase

surreal solar Oct 3, 2020, 12:38 AM

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Skitra dodges alot of aoe, idk why

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but i encountered that kind of thing with multiple things on skitra

timid cloud Oct 3, 2020, 1:00 AM

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What races are looking good for Shadowlands? Or does it not even matter?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 1:02 AM

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races don't matter

surreal solar Oct 3, 2020, 1:04 AM

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^^

reef mist Oct 3, 2020, 1:28 AM

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!wa

prisma monolithBOT Oct 3, 2020, 1:28 AM

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Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

shy heron Oct 3, 2020, 1:42 AM

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@fleet whale at least cata sub had SnD refreshed by eviscerate 😦

radiant sorrel Oct 3, 2020, 3:45 AM

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Cut to the chase ;-;

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:28 AM

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what is the best non-raid weapon for sin rogue ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:28 AM

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anything with haste

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highest ilvl in mainhand

main blaze Oct 3, 2020, 4:28 AM

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dagger

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:29 AM

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kekw

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:29 AM

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so dagger with haste

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what's 2nd trait ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:29 AM

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doesn't really matter

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:29 AM

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ok thank you

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📎 unknown.png

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that's the highest haste i found in Junkyard

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 AM

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do you have something maybe higher

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465 perhaps

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 AM

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well i can run m15 there

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 AM

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(you can also sim your daggers)

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 AM

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i dont have that dagger

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i found it in the loot info

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for that dungeon

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i got a 475 version of it, from this week's chest

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😄

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 AM

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so put the 475 in your main hand

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and then whatever else in your offhand

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:34 AM

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it is.. also how come it matters ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:34 AM

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because damage is calculated mostly from main hand weapon dps

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compared to off hand weapon dps, which is basically meaningless

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

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im assuming having better daggers will improve my overall dps right ?

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like noticeably i mean

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

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dunno bout noticeably

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

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:/

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

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if you already have a 475 mainhand

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you probably won't notice anything

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

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lol

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rip

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whats the point then

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:/

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

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cause its still an upgrade

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:36 AM

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is it ?

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ah u mean higher ilvl

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getting more health etc

drifting cloud Oct 3, 2020, 4:37 AM

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no its more dmg, its just not noticable

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:37 AM

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yeah

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like just because you don't notice it

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doesn't mean its not better

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a 1% up

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probably not noticable

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but its still 1%

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:38 AM

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hmm im looking to make the most impact though

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📎 unknown.png

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:39 AM

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replacing that azerite

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and cloak upgrades

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and corruptions

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also cannonball runner is the worst trinket in the game

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:39 AM

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lol rip

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:39 AM

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430 ring is mega awkward

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I'd assume your essences are behind as well

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 AM

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yes

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corruption too

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so trinket and ring ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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trinket, ring, azerite

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prepatch is in 11 days though

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so uh

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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lol yea

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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idk

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play a different game

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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do they remove corruption in prepatch ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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kekw

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yeah

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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haha

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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corruption is the only thing that's gone

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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ah so azerite will remain ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 AM

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but ilvl is getting squished

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:42 AM

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ok

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ok ill look for trinket and ring

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:42 AM

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so I would assume your gear will scale to be pretty close to other people

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the trinket is big though

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:42 AM

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which would u recommend ?

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dungeon trinket

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:42 AM

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for dungeon content or for raids

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:43 AM

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single target

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:43 AM

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galecallers, plumage

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spyglass is okay

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you should really learn how to sim yourself though

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these questions can all be answered by raidbots

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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Vita-Charged Titanshard ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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much more accurately than I can

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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sure

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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titanshard is okay

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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cool

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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depends on the ilvl

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 AM

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ah but its from the raid

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:45 AM

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correct

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:45 AM

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Galecaller's Boon sounds like i wont be able to move ?

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what's the radius on that one big?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:46 AM

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if you're looking for single target, you're gonna be standing still for it anyway

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its not that bad to use

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plumage is a fine replacement though

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:49 AM

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gotcha

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Lustrous Golden Plumage seems nice

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and ring recommendation ?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:50 AM

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depends on your gear

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which is also why you should sim

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:50 AM

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well you mentioned haste before

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i see mechagon has good ones

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:51 AM

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the mechagon set usually is very good yeah

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depending on your azerite, the shrine ring can be really good too

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:52 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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icy vein

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:52 AM

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yep

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:52 AM

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ill check that one

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it's good because it has the dagger too

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:52 AM

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idk if you'll have time to farm both

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:52 AM

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im paying for boosting lol dont ask

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:52 AM

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took me uh...... I think 30 something runs

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to get both to drop

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:53 AM

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oh i see

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thanks for the heads up!

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:53 AM

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you're boosting though this late in the expac monkas

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:53 AM

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yea

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any ring ill get will be good

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has the same traits except the unique part

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same crit haste

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:54 AM

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the set bonus is the reason why its good

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other than that, you can droptimizer

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and that'll tell you specifically what your biggest upgrades are

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:54 AM

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thanks!

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didnt know that existed

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 4:55 AM

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ye

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raidbots is powerful

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:58 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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that's cool

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many upgrades for one dungeon

wary ice Oct 3, 2020, 4:59 AM

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fwiw remember all the rings are literally the same thing minus the trigger effect

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 4:59 AM

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yup

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how come vision of perfection is not recommended as major essence?

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it may trigger vendetta

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which is awesome

drifting cloud Oct 3, 2020, 5:04 AM

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because it makes you do less dmg

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:05 AM

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how come ?

drifting cloud Oct 3, 2020, 5:05 AM

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the computer says so

lost horizon Oct 3, 2020, 5:05 AM

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numbers small

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other essence bigger number

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:05 AM

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ah it triggers for only 5 seconds

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makes sense lol

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:09 AM

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so i'm at like 8% haste 29% mastery

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and as far as i know, i think it should be kinda the opposite

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should I try to fix that or will Shadowlands Catch-Up Gear ™️ do that for me?

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:10 AM

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i have 15% haste and 41.5% mastery

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lol

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not sure how i got so much mastery lol

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:11 AM

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i'm just fucking around doing wq, war campaign, etc

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and i realized my stats were kinda backwards

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:12 AM

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im so happy to get rid of corruptions

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:13 AM

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can't argue, never had them

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:14 AM

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try to argue anyway

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😉

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:14 AM

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eh

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they seemed cool

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:14 AM

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i feel like corruptions were breaking the game

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:14 AM

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and were purple in color

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so that makes them good

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:15 AM

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blizzard has too many things to balance - so they set themselves for failure

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:17 AM

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that much is true, they do have a lot of perks and shit to balance

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:18 AM

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and im pretty sure this is exponential

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for each corruption , each essence, each azerite

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each class

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each spec?

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lol

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im sure the list is much longer

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:19 AM

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yeah but i'd rather have some wacky and totally bullshit options than feel like i'm playing classic

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:20 AM

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At this point you really should just care for iLvL

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:20 AM

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you mean the haste thing?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:20 AM

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Trying to optimize stats is just going to end up being a waste of time honestly

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:20 AM

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yea and dont make new weakauras 🙂

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:21 AM

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wdym

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:21 AM

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Crit builds and haste builds are both fine

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And with corruptions gone

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Just whatever you can get your hands on will be okay

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:21 AM

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this is it. take it or leave it

📎 9d289d1ff7aa04390d777208a66a53dc.png

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:22 AM

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That honestly reminds me of questing gear xD

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:22 AM

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ding ding ding

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also

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why is ilvl more important to stack up now

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:23 AM

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higher primary stats i believe

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:23 AM

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“Now” is a lot more vague than you think it is

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:24 AM

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uhhhh

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pre shadowlands?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:24 AM

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Well pre-shadowlands it’s not more important

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But agility wins until you get some gear

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Then stats become more important

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The gains you get from agi far outweigh any secondary

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Probably until around 400ilvl or so

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Very roughly speaking

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Might be higher actually

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:28 AM

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will sin rogue be hard to solo level in shadowlands ?

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im noob sin, and i've had hard time so far, until i finally got some gear

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:28 AM

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honestly

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it's pretty fuckin fun

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:28 AM

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sin is the worst out of the 3 to level with

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objectively

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:29 AM

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what i like to do is find isolated targets or force them to isolate

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:29 AM

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i mean

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you should

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you're not a warrior

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:29 AM

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but sometimes it's not possible

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like doing the cape quest for corruption

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some time it's a group of adds

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:30 AM

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I mean, you can aoe

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use evasion and start spamming fan

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:30 AM

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true, but you need a build for it

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:31 AM

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and pray for poison bombs

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:31 AM

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i guess i wasnt using much defensive

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:31 AM

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but unless the pack of adds is massive

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you should be able to sap one, blind another, and drag the rest further so the incapacitated ones don't get aoe damaged

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to be fair it might be harder than I make it sound

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:34 AM

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lol

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:34 AM

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considering i don't really know what quest you're talking about

spring moth Oct 3, 2020, 5:34 AM

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the one quest that comes up in my mind, is the cape quest when you go to Hyijal

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and there's like 4 flying bugs

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there's no hiding from them

outer condor Oct 3, 2020, 5:36 AM

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yea no clue

lapis lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:00 AM

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do you guys think assa will recieve a dmg buff until launch?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 AM

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its possible yes

vestal wren Oct 3, 2020, 9:20 AM

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assassination could see a buff or subtlety a nerf

lapis lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:22 AM

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:

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:3

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:24 AM

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I honestly think it'll be a bit of both

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but I'm not blizzard

pliant fractal Oct 3, 2020, 10:38 AM

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Best case scenario is that the class as a whole sees tuning

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We can hope that the delay gives them the time to finish that

shut garnet Oct 3, 2020, 11:26 AM

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given how behind assa looks in numbers compared to stuff

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hopefully the former

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(assa buff sub nerf)

coarse shale Oct 3, 2020, 11:56 AM

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Not getting any poison bombs after 7 finishers during aoe is some serious pepehands

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 11:57 AM

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poison bomb has really REALLY small impact on your aoe

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just saying

coarse shale Oct 3, 2020, 11:58 AM

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Would still be nice if it would proc

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I've been cursed to only getting procs on 1-2 tartgets lately

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 12:00 PM

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i mean

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poisonbomb is the "ST" talent

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if you want aoe you tend too go CT

coarse shale Oct 3, 2020, 12:01 PM

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Yeah

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Was just trash leading up to nyalotha bosses

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I usually run CT in dungeons anyway

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 12:05 PM

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Speaking of CT, looking at the bosses in SL raids thats gonna be a thing eh

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 12:06 PM

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you allready played CT on some nyalotha bosses

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just saying^^

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 12:06 PM

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I mean, currently on every single boss

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 12:07 PM

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well,yeha, corruptions and stuff

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 12:07 PM

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but, in new raids it looks like more CT then the former (without including Haste Corruption Meta)

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 12:10 PM

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eh,wait until the actuall balance is done

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lets be honest

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its gonna be a warlock tier anyway lmao

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 12:10 PM

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MM Hunter imo

coarse shale Oct 3, 2020, 12:32 PM

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Warlock overtuned as usual lmao

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and they scale well too

obsidian mountain Oct 3, 2020, 1:24 PM

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!guide

prisma monolithBOT Oct 3, 2020, 1:24 PM

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Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

dusky plinth Oct 3, 2020, 2:17 PM

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Wait, were going Kyrian now? Why's that?

vestal wren Oct 3, 2020, 2:19 PM

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we like angles

dusky plinth Oct 3, 2020, 2:19 PM

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fair enough

vestal wren Oct 3, 2020, 2:19 PM

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tl;dr: the weekly build did significantly change the power balance between covenant abilities

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and the "priority" does assume soulbinds + conduits, you can follow the link below to see simulations

dusky plinth Oct 3, 2020, 2:22 PM

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Ah im seeing all of your pinned messages alright

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Sorry for asking before looking monkaS

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I really dont want to be an angel rogue tho

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 2:23 PM

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you better be sorry

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you're lucky the usual pins crowd was too late after fuu responded

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 2:54 PM

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Rude monkascheme

surreal solar Oct 3, 2020, 3:03 PM

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They’re still close enough, I’m running with the furries

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 3:30 PM

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fuck the fairies

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in a good rp world, we're vampires or necrolords

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we stand against everything kyrians do

delicate bone Oct 3, 2020, 4:04 PM

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@vast forum i strongly agree with you lol. Even though I’ll end up going whatever is stronger. Kyrian and night fae just aren’t rogues in the slightest

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:07 PM

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night faes might be "in the slightest"

delicate bone Oct 3, 2020, 4:10 PM

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Yea, definitely a tab bit not than kyrian, but not enough for me to want to go it

digital shore Oct 3, 2020, 4:26 PM

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Yeah I'm almost certainly going Venthyr unless it's really behind the other options. I could manage with Necrolords too.

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:30 PM

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none of the covenants are really "rogue like"rp wise peeposhrug

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:31 PM

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?

digital shore Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 PM

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Vampires and daggers are good enough for me. I played a vampire rogue in DoS2 too

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 PM

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necro is pretty rogue like, draka is basically a rogue and she's the main protagonist in there

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 PM

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lets look at the covenants

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you have

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:32 PM

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and venthyr are a lot about deception

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or maybe not idk, but they like blood and we make ppl bleed blobshrug

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but necro is definitely good for rogues rp wise

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 PM

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"we guide people too the afterlive" kyrian "army of the shadowlands"necrolord" shepards for the circle of rebirth and nature"nigh fae and "we help people atone for their sins" venthyr

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 PM

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that's too general tho 😛

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 PM

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thats litearlly what the covnenats are about

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like

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 PM

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also, "army of the shadowlands" is pretty good for rogues

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 PM

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venthyr is 0 vampire

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:33 PM

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the house of eyes is a lot about espionage

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:34 PM

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they maybe somewhat look like them, but they are 0 vampires

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and night fae is not about fairys, its fae

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:34 PM

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they also react badly to the sun

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:34 PM

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and fae are savage af lel

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:34 PM

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and also their aesthetics are full on vampires (the buildings as well, not just characters)

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and they all have romanian names, dracula's place of origin 😄

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so the zone is almost entirely based on vampires except they suck anima instead of blood

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:35 PM

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they dont suck anima

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just saying

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good thing people dont read the slightes stuff about the stuff that happens lel

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:36 PM

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they kinda do

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not with their fangs tho

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it's not like in the afterlives short, they're milking garrosh

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like a cow

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sucking him dry

digital shore Oct 3, 2020, 4:37 PM

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You could also say: good thing we can immerse ourselves better than you. Everything doesn't have to be exactly like a rogue for it to feel roguelike.

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:37 PM

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they collect anima like every single faction in SL does

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like

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they ALL do it cus the SL need it too exsist

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:37 PM

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except they collect it from others/themselves

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:38 PM

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anima is always from people

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:38 PM

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aka succ

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i guess we just agree to disagree here and move on

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either way, red/bone aesthetics >>>>> nature/angels for rogues

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:39 PM

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bruh

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thats the most swallow kind of rpg thinking i can immagine

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"its edgy red so its rogue"

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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i didn't mention rp here

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just said aesthetics

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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Check the kyrian mog for rogues

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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is the same shit as all people crying" omg dk is edgy plate armor, necrolord is edgy platearmor so dk=necrolord or it SUCKS wtf!!!!"

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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So bad i actually love it

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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well night fae dks are just a big kekw from me

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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people care about the covnenant mog and not just gonna use the raid set?

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:40 PM

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i'm just talking about general aesthetics

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 PM

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Well u get a unique back mog

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 PM

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i'm probably gonna wear old expansion mogs anyway

digital shore Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 PM

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There are not enough good transmog options for rogue. Like how hard is it to make some variations of regular burglar gear or even assassin's creed gear

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:41 PM

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with maybe the blades on the back instead of a cloak if i go venthyr

digital shore Oct 3, 2020, 4:42 PM

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I like the Venthyr transmog in general

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

there is a shitton of gear that makes you look like a "regular burglar"

#

people need too look outside of collection->raidtier sets lol

digital shore Oct 3, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

That have more than 5 pixels, I forgot to say

vast forum Oct 3, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

don't tell me how to live my life 😡

#

full bod mythic set (maybe without helm) on a zandalari troll is fuckin amazing

#

not burglar-themed 😛

#

but pretty good

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

eh i dont say full sets suck

#

but like

#

people that complain"omg all sets in wow are so over the top flashy"

#

and like

#

yes tiersets maybe

#

the rest isnt

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

oh the kyrian ability is strongest now? hope that doesnt last

forest nacelle Oct 3, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

haste is a thing of the paste according to wowhead, is this true?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

Kyrian is the strongest

#

And haste is still our best secondary stat

#

So idk what you’re reading on wowhead

forest nacelle Oct 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

it says vers

#

which is weird.

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

Maybe for prepatch

forest nacelle Oct 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

yeah i meant prepatch sorry

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

Prepatch is a balance disaster

#

Trying to optimize it is kinda WeirdChamp

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

I reallly dont want to use kyrian, both of those abilities feel so wrong

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

It’s at least interesting imo

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

its interesting but clunky looking

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

Night fae isn’t that interesting, venthyr isn’t interesting, necrolord isn’t really that interesting

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

the vanish part of night fae can set up some cool stuff at least

#

feels like rogue got the short stick with covenant abilities though

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

?

fleet whale Oct 3, 2020, 7:50 PM

#

it's basically the same for other classes

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

at least thematically they work for other classes, rogue moves feel like random spells were given to them

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

??

topaz saffron Oct 3, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

Picking necrolord pretty much because drakas cool

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

@sand pewter have you tried using ER in rotation? Its actually not that bad at all, but still I’d assume that a lot of changes have yet to come into play yet. So everything you see now could very well change. Every class in game currently is in a weird spot with covenants.

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:36 PM

#

hello guys, new member here

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:36 PM

#

WaveWaveWave

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

just wanted to ask, does the maldraxxus abilitie got nerfed? i saw some excel page saying that the kyrian one is better now

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

Yes

drifting cloud Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

it got nuked

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

yeah bone spike got a big damage nerf

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

You can see the changes on wowhead

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

but it was way too strong before

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

It’s the latest beta patch notes

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

oh damn

#

i was gonna pick that one, and endless dot seems cool 😪

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:38 PM

#

I saw logs where it was like 30% damage done

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:38 PM

#

30% kinda low end as well xD

#

I saw some cleave logs during raid testing where it was like 50+

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:38 PM

#

but flagellation is interesting too, so now i cant decide what to pick

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:38 PM

#

disgusting lol

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:39 PM

#

If you don’t care about dps, pick whatever you think is cool

#

There’s sims in the pins

#

So you can check that out if you care for the damage

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:39 PM

#

conduits play a huge part too

#

I dont see how this is going to work out well

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:40 PM

#

i dont care that much cus i feel im good playing rogue, but if that abilities do like 50% of my damage like corruptions what if i make the wrong choice? thats what scares me

#

but if not, then ill just pick whatever i looks cooler

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:41 PM

#

Well that’s why they got nerfed

#

:)

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:41 PM

#

@Nùllfox yeah ive tried ER but didnt like how it felt

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:41 PM

#

i dont have the beta so im not sure

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:42 PM

#

I dont mind ER on combat though

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:42 PM

#

@glacial timber currently it looks like the damage isn’t that far off from any other of the covenants via the sims in ST. So you should be safe choosing whatever you like, at least for now. Their will obviously be more tuning as the weeks go by.

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

hmmmm i see

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

Ye, honestly I enjoy playing ER more then Bone Spikes

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

er?

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

the fracture component of bone spike needs to be the focus

#

echoing reprimand

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

^

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

ohhh ok the kyrian one right?

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

Kyrian ability

#

Ye

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

its currently simming the best, but you need to pick kyrian for it

#

and the owl is my least favorite covenant wide spell

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:45 PM

#

Fracture got removed

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:45 PM

#

I know! its kinda lame

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:45 PM

#

i probably gonna pick maldraxxus cus i love dots, and an endless one sounds really nice

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:46 PM

#

maldraxxus with the conduit that gives you cc immunity looks spicy for pvp

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:46 PM

#

also the build-a-abomination thing doe

topaz saffron Oct 3, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

Is bone shard pretty much set and forget single target?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

No

#

You recast on cooldown

#

Much more interesting

#

kek

topaz saffron Oct 3, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

Oh darn

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

even after the damage nerf?

#

ouch

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

Especially after the damage nerf

topaz saffron Oct 3, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

That makes me reconsider necrolord

#

Damn I don't like any of the rogue abilities

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

imagine cleaving with it on a high health multitarget scenario

#

coom

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

It’s the weakest in cleave

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

venthyr is cool for cleave

#

otherwise its also just a cd

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:49 PM

#

oh

topaz saffron Oct 3, 2020, 8:49 PM

#

Ight which one in your opinions is the least effort to fit in with rotation?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:49 PM

#

Bone spike for sure

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:49 PM

#

bone spike

#

kyrian=night fae>venthyr>necro for amount of thought required

#

but thats not saying much

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 8:50 PM

#

Yeah

#

I would say night fae is easier that kyrian

#

But that’s an opinion thing

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:51 PM

#

id agree with that yeah

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:54 PM

#

so the damage from the new borrowed powers actually comes from the conduits instead?

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:55 PM

#

it kinda varies, but some of the more overtuned conduits got nerfed

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:55 PM

#

I mean a WA will make ER thoughtless

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 8:55 PM

#

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E1TxEKvH6LoCUwhG1-8QQ4CikblmHaaBp-Ozr9ugQHw/edit#gid=467566319

Google Docs

Covenants Abilities Sorted by Spec

Rankings

By: Harldan#2316 ,Kyrian,Necrolords,Night Fae,Venthyr,Notes,Key,BiS,Good,Mediocre,Bad,Trash
Thanks for pulling the ripcord Blizzard, now just make sure you balance stuff in time.,(Updated 10/2/20) THEY ACTUALLY DID IT, SHADOWLANDS HAD BEEN DELAYED! I know I've been s...

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 8:56 PM

#

Speaking of I’ll have to try and make one when I get home

#

I keep forgetting

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 8:56 PM

#

hmm i see

crimson birch Oct 3, 2020, 9:02 PM

#

so now the bis swap to Kyrian?

#

@sand pewter

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

yeah kyrian is bis for all 3 specs right now

crimson birch Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

ok but that can change again?

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

it probably will lol

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

of course it can change

crimson birch Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

x)

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

we're still in beta

#

we just got first pass cov balancing this week

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

yeah necrolords was the best up until this week but now its going to be changing around more often

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

at least we dont have any abilitie marked as trash now

crimson birch Oct 3, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

and now its good for 3 spec sooo

#

hope stil same

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

Dude that spreadsheet is so trash

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

wish it was the same for dk

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

Dont link that unironically

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

???

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

its a good starting point for people

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

It’s constantly being updated

#

Tf?

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

cant believe going to necrolord with a dk is a damage loss

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

A good starting point for people is looking at class discords

#

Its not updated

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

yes it is

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

^

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

Not for specs i play 🙂

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

obviously its not the best thing in the world

#

but its updated

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

Theres a reason the dude is banned in how

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

It’s always a work in progress

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

And it gets insta deletd whenever someone links it

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

ye

crimson birch Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

what?

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

but that's for other classes

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

Because it spreads misnformation under the guise of being helpful

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

rogue is fine

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

oh yea he baned from the paladin discord right?

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

Fuu legit helps him

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

Yeah but if people assume its good for one

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

So rogue is solid

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

*he got banned

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

They assume its good for all

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

yeah I guess

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

Which absolutely isnt the case

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

this is a rogue discord though

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

Ok

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

so imo, probably fine

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

So what if someone sees that

#

Chooses to pick venthyr for their ret alt

#

Cause they assume its accurate

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

but why? did they got trigggered because all the abilities are trash for ret?

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

Whoops its shit and the guy didnt update it

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

because the guy is a clown

#

for making the spreadsheet

#

and I assume if they're picking anything, they would do a little more research than a single spreadsheet made by some nobody

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

But people dont

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

that's their problem

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

And its better to just look at class discords

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

all I'm sayin

#

is that for rogue, its accurate

#

and updated

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

Its a problem propagated by linking inaccurate sources of information

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

i thought people were just gonna wait for the wowhead guides

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

tbf I was linking it in context of a rogue discussion

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

its inaccurate related to topic that aren't discussed here

#

if I'm in here, asking about rogue, idc bout ele shaman covenants

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

Ok, but like i said people play more than one character

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

should we add a "only accurate for rogue btw"

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

Yes

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

aight

#

I can get behind that then

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E1TxEKvH6LoCUwhG1-8QQ4CikblmHaaBp-Ozr9ugQHw/edit#gid=467566319 "only accurate for rogue btw"

Google Docs

Covenants Abilities Sorted by Spec

Rankings

By: Harldan#2316 ,Kyrian,Necrolords,Night Fae,Venthyr,Notes,Key,BiS,Good,Mediocre,Bad,Trash
Thanks for pulling the ripcord Blizzard, now just make sure you balance stuff in time.,(Updated 10/2/20) THEY ACTUALLY DID IT, SHADOWLANDS HAD BEEN DELAYED! I know I've been s...

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

Some class discord’s are actually toxic, so I can see why people don’t go to them. But that’s neither here or there this convo is leaning deeper and deeper to the realm of general chat.

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

yeah

#

that'll happen

#

is fine

#

bolas has a point

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

so which classes is that link wrong then? i play with many alts but mainly ill go with rogue and dk for the next expansion

#

so i can instead look for videos or icy veins guides close to release date

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

shrugR he updates it like every day

#

so probably different things wrong

#

every time

#

just double check with reputable sources

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

^

glacial timber Oct 3, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

aight 👍

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

the rogue one is generally fine on that list

#

since its basically just fuu

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

yep

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

Most guide sites will have info up for covenants well before you need to pick

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

bruh,fuu himself doesnt even know why he is inside that shitsheat lel

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

sure but what im saying is its just whatever fuu says

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:14 PM

#

the sheat has 1 gigantic problem

#

its a really REALLY rough overall look at things

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

yeah

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

when tuning etc...isnt done yet, and when you go deeper into classes stuff is often quite different

#

without sounding like an a-hole,but like, that entire thing just smells like some wannabe good player made it without even diving into the smallest class mechanics

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:17 PM

#

I mean, that is what it is

#

he's regurgitating the basics from each class discord

#

and that's really it

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

(+ it doesnt help that he had a fking peak r/wow wall of thext with "pUlL ThE RiPcOrD" at the start,wich just screams that the typical r/wow user made it)

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

I dont think its necessarily a bad thing for someone to try and make a list like that, if anything it points attention to how much of an unnecessary burden covenants will be

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

I mean, I could be wrong but it just seems like we crucifying dude for just trying to be helpful

#

I also don’t know the guy

#

So I could be wrong

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

we're not crucifying the dude for trying to be helpful

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

^

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

we're crucifying the dude for not being helpful

#

and acting like it is

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

the list is flawed for sure, but thats what you get when one guy tries to cover each class

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

and that's the problem

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

Ok he came into the pally discord saying he wanted to make a sheet just for his friends, he was told over and over why it would be a bad idea and not useful, he did it anyway then posted it on reddit for karma and e fame

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

^

#

I don't agree with the sheet at all

#

like I said earlier

#

its just regurgitated class disc info

#

TLDR'd to hell

#

and sometimes its not even that

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

even in class discords themself the opinions about stuff are different

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

especially with all the tuning that's happening

#

its just not possible to make a list like that

#

even if he is trying to help

#

he's not succeeding

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

like, you could not go into this place for 1hour and know good wich ability will be "bis" 2-3 days ago cus there is so much stuff that affects it

frigid kestrel Oct 3, 2020, 9:22 PM

#

Ye like I said I don’t know the entire story. I assumed (something I shouldn’t do) that he got help from others to make this accurate.

#

I seen Fuu’s name in the additional comment and was like, ok this dude is legit

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 9:22 PM

#

and that's part of the problem isn't it

#

:)

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

like i said, when it was posted the first time, fuu litearlly said"why is my name in there all the time lol"

#

😄

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

rogues have kinda been lucky that one covenant is working for all 3 specs for most situations

#

I feel bad for hybrid classes lol

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:24 PM

#

all our covenants are really close togheter

#

it will probably end up with "for 2fights necrolord is slightly better, for those 3 venthyr is a bit better, and on those 2 its nightfae"

#

wich imo, would be the best thing that can happen

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

I think itll be a bit more decisive tbh

#

just like how some talents are the choice 100 percent of the time

royal lantern Oct 3, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

ye but like i said, they are pretty close even now

fleet whale Oct 3, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

so on beta either sub is overtuned or sin is undertuned

#

maybe a bit of both

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

both

fleet whale Oct 3, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

assassination seems to have an issue of our attacks not really doing damage lol

#

well obviously they do but they don't hit hard

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

rupture/envenom damage seems a little sus to me

#

finishers being like 5th or 6th damage

#

is kinda weird

surreal solar Oct 3, 2020, 10:22 PM

#

that sounds.... wrong

#

blizz, fix your monkey code

fathom swift Oct 3, 2020, 10:26 PM

#

Not really a code issue

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 10:26 PM

#

its a balance issue

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

Percentage wise spells are close to what they were apart from the tb nerf

#

Just need an aura buff

balmy condor Oct 3, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

yeah

#

I think an aura buff is fine

#

finishers being so low just doesn't make sense to me

#

but that's an opinion thing

crimson palm Oct 3, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

It'll scale eventually it's always the same situation at start

sand pewter Oct 3, 2020, 10:34 PM

#

right now sin is basically just using finishers to buff passive damage

#

which is fine but needs to be more intricate than just "keep these buffs running"

slim jay Oct 4, 2020, 12:44 AM

#

Are they letting sin and sub use swords in sls? Or is it just the artifact tmog you can put on the dagger specs?

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 12:48 AM

#

sub can already use swords in offhand (but it's worse than dagger), but no, neither of those things are true. the legion artifact xmogs will still follow normal transmog rules. no tfury as sin.

daring lion Oct 4, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

so im having an issue keeping up my dps in nzoth

#

i know my proper opener, and whatnot, but when i have to switch targets (like switching to the tentacles that spawn) what should i be doing on those?

sour wraith Oct 4, 2020, 2:20 AM

#

Dont worry about the tentacles too much - just use your non burst rotation for the most part, your main focus should be pumping as much dps into nzoth as you can

#

ofc that can change with your comp and strat but thats the general idea

daring lion Oct 4, 2020, 2:39 AM

#

but when nzoth is invulnerable, and you gotta fight down the eyeball and the tentacle, whats the non burst rotation? just keep garrote up and rupture up, then mut and envenom? @sour wraith

sour wraith Oct 4, 2020, 2:48 AM

#

Depends on a lot of variables - do you have bleeds up on nzoth previously? if so, depending on how fast they did you might just want to mut/envenom. Are there psycophages nearby? probably want to fok/CT if there are enough. 2-3 bleeds of garrote/rupture is usually enough for energy and most tentacles die too fast to focus dotting a lot

#

if i know itll be up when i need it later, ill use exsang too

daring lion Oct 4, 2020, 3:13 AM

#

should i be taking CT over poison bomb then?

frigid kestrel Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

@daring lion you got haste build?

sour wraith Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

If you have enough haste

ember mural Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

depends on your haste value, run a sim comparing that and poison bomb

daring lion Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

im still kinda gearing, only 19% haste atm

sour wraith Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

Then no

ember mural Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

stick with PB

frigid kestrel Oct 4, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

PB

sour wraith Oct 4, 2020, 3:15 AM

#

Also I guess it kinda matters if you're talking mythic or lower - still the same principle but there won't be any psychophages you'll be foking on in non psychus areas

daring lion Oct 4, 2020, 3:16 AM

#

so as for straight single target, mut> rupture> mute > garrote > vanish and vendetta > TB > envenom >mut > envenom, then after cds are poped just mute and venom and reapply garrote and rupture as needed?

#

until cds are up again~

sour wraith Oct 4, 2020, 3:27 AM

#

i would save vanish+vendetta for nzoth only regardless of difficulty

#

and especially if you're doing heroic or lower

neat frost Oct 4, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

!WA

prisma monolithBOT Oct 4, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

strange python Oct 4, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

I would like to have the wod-assa back. Envenom refresh snd and venomwounds also do dmg everytime a bleed ticks, scales with Mastery, i would be super happy

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

What's the difference between assassination rogue and feral druid in terms of playstyle? They are both DoT based with energy and combo points

#

I find feral druid boring to be honest but I like the assassination fantasy, so I was wondering if there are any significant differences that set them apart

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:19 AM

#

in terms of gameplay, its pretty similar

#

but currently, they're mostly looking for ferocious bite damage

#

its more similar to sub rogue in terms of big eviscerates

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:20 AM

#

Just the fact that I don't have to be a cat is +1 For rogue cause I wanna see my character

#

Hmm

#

How is the aoe of assassination?

#

I really want a class that makes me 'feel cool which I understand is very subjective

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

but rake is basically garrote, rip is rupture, shred is mutilate, thrash is CT, brutal slash is fok

#

sin in aoe in shadowlands specifically is pretty poison based

#

right now, the 'fantasy' aspect is basically coming out of stealth with strong garrotes, and then fan of knives for big damage (with a crit/eb build)

#

in shadowlands, the garrotes are weaker from stealth

#

but you're applying strong poisons and doing big damage on reapplications when you're using fok

#

generally in shadowlands sin is more poison based than it is right now

#

so that puts feral on the bleed and rip animalistic type fantasy

#

and sin as more of a poisoned weapons type thing

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:25 AM

#

Yeah I like that but isn't that just names ? Like you could literally swap the names and it would be the same right?

#

Also you do big damage on re application? That sounds really nice because I hate using an ability for bleed that doesn't do much damage up front

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:26 AM

#

right now, they play very similarly

#

they even have the same combo point on crit passive

#

the main thing that sets them apart imo is that sin gets energy from bleed damage against poisoned targets

#

which is one of the main reasons why you apply bleeds to multiple enemies

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:28 AM

#

Oooh

#

That sounds a bit more fast paced

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:29 AM

#

definitely not single target

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:29 AM

#

Like you can ramp up your energy

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:29 AM

#

single target we're a very slow and meticulous spec

#

in aoe and mythic+, you start drowning in energy at around 5 bleeds

#

you get 3 garrotes from stealth, 1-2 ruptures

#

and then you're basically capped on energy

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:30 AM

#

That sounds fun

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:31 AM

#

but aside from that, they're very similar playstyle wise

#

its just weapon/dagger fantasy and rogue fantasy

#

vs sneaky cat with claws

#

feral also has a talent called bloodtalons, which is optimal for them

#

but very contentious

#

casting a regrowth or roots makes their next 2 abilities do more damage

#

so they have to heal or use utility to buff the next abilities

#

and its one of the hated things about feral

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:36 AM

#

And all of this is in regards to bfa or shadowlands included ?

#

I really appreciate the responses btw thanks

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:36 AM

#

a mixture of both

#

they both haven't changed much going into shadowlands

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:37 AM

#

Ah okay makes sense

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:37 AM

#

sin in bfa is very bleed based right now, exsanguinate is super meta

#

but with the loss of a couple of systems, and the additional of a lot of poison conduits and stuff

#

its shifting a lot more towards poisons

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:38 AM

#

Excuse my noobness but what's the difference between a bleed and a poison, I thought they were the same thing (in game not irl ofc)

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:38 AM

#

so bleeds are like garrote and rupture for sin

#

rake and rip for feral

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:39 AM

#

Yeahp

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:39 AM

#

in terms of damage, poisons are basically the same thing

#

they all do damage over time

#

sins poisons do nature damage over time

#

and nature damage on reapplication

#

but you apply them to your "weapons" (in reality its just a button you hit to buff every 60 minutes)

#

and then you have a chance to apply your poisons to the target passively

#

envenom, our main combo points dump, also does nature damage

#

and increases the poison application chance for a short period

#

feral doesn't have poisons

#

in shadowlands, all 3 rogue specs will have poisons back baseline

#

but sins are empowered, and built upon with the systems in the expansion

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:41 AM

#

Oooh

#

That sounds really cool

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:41 AM

#

we also have gameplay loops involving them with envenom, venomous wounds (the passive that gives energy when your bleeds deal damaged to a poisoned target), and the conduits etc

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 7:41 AM

#

The passive ability to apply it instead of direct sounds so nice

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:42 AM

#

there's also shiv

#

which is utility for the other 2 specs, but for sin it increases nature damage by a little bit for a short time

#

and it applies a condensed version of your poison

#

something to note is you can have multiple poisons

#

1 lethal, and 1 non-lethal

#

and sin gets a couple to choose from

#

for lethals, we have deadly, which is the pve go to, just damage over time, damage on reapplication

#

if you're raiding or doing dungeons, you would have that always on

#

and then the pvp one, wound poison, which does less damage, but reduces healing on that target

#

in terms of non-lethals there's crippling, which is a slow, and numbing, which used to be a pvp thing, but is going baseline in shadowlands

#

numbing slows the targets attack and cast speed

#

if you shiv with numbing, it dispels enrage effects, with crippling its a strong slow

#

etc etc

#

the main draw in raids is the damage part, since it increases nature damage to the target for 9 seconds

#

which then obviously loops back into envenom, which does nature damage and increases poison application chance, poisons also doing nature damage

#

its only 20%, so its not like OMG SHIV HUGE 9 SECOND DAMAGE WINDOW

#

but its something

rapid yew Oct 4, 2020, 7:48 AM

#

whoa numbing/shiv dispels enrage?

#

damn

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 7:50 AM

#

yeah

#

numbing is crazy strong in m+ as well cause of the effect itself

#

15% attack speed slow is basically just 15% melee damage reduction against the tank

#

which is nuts

austere grove Oct 4, 2020, 8:41 AM

#

did they do anything with the pickpocket + potion thing they talked about?

#

or did our heal just get a flat nerf?

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 8:42 AM

#

flat nerf atm

austere grove Oct 4, 2020, 8:42 AM

#

yep, because it definitely needed a nerf

#

:/

vagrant loom Oct 4, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

@balmy condor sorry I had to afk but I really appreciate your responses. Your definitely my go to person for anything assassination vulpera

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

badaLove

long stream Oct 4, 2020, 9:16 AM

#

Hello, with the removal of azerite traits for FoK, how is our aoe damage doing in M+ ? I’m afraid spaming fok and maintaining bleeds does not do enough compared to many other specs.

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 9:17 AM

#

we're definitely weaker right now

#

with conduit ranks into katar and lethal poisons there's definitely some synergy though

#

depending on how the tuning ends up, we could be in a good place

shrewd garnet Oct 4, 2020, 10:18 AM

#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT Oct 4, 2020, 10:18 AM

#

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

strange python Oct 4, 2020, 11:14 AM

#

They total outdated

shut garnet Oct 4, 2020, 11:14 AM

#

they might unironically be up to date when prepatch hits

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:14 AM

#

wowhead is updated for prepatch

shut garnet Oct 4, 2020, 11:14 AM

#

lul

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:15 AM

#

monkaW

#

ravenholdt is still up to date not counting exsang

#

as is iv

young sorrel Oct 4, 2020, 12:20 PM

#

what site do you guys use to sim the beta changes?

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 12:23 PM

#

you can only compile simc from source if you want to do that

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 1:03 PM

#

soulbinds:

📎 assassination_soulbinds.png

#

just a update because one soulbind changed position, its nothing "new"

shut garnet Oct 4, 2020, 1:06 PM

#

are those like

#

the most efficient setups

#

dps wise?

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 1:06 PM

#

yes

dawn merlin Oct 4, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

@vestal wren are the sims you have linked on the pins using Dashing or Zoldyck for dungeon slice?

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

dashing

dawn merlin Oct 4, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

is it better than Zoldyck?

#

in dungeon slice, that is

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

yes

dawn merlin Oct 4, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

ty fuu

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

but there is not a big diffrence, so play it if you like it more

dawn merlin Oct 4, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

fair enough

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

kinda similar with cele on outlaw

#

for sub its a clear cut

#

because of akaari + dd interaction

grizzled jay Oct 4, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

I'd run Zoldyck cause that's gonna be the best on Sire in Raid and is still strong in M+.

shut garnet Oct 4, 2020, 2:27 PM

#

by the time people reach sire theyll probably have 2-3 max rank leggos

#

so its definitely best to pick whats good on the other like 9 encounters first kek

crimson palm Oct 4, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

Bruh ull have 2x leggos by week 4

#

That's 1 week into raid

vestal wren Oct 4, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

iirc you can craft one legendary per week if you only craft rank ones

#

so it won't be a issue to craft multiple ones

shut garnet Oct 4, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

there u go then, even quicker

#

i was being generous^^

#

is it too early to say how big the dps gap between a rank1 and a rank4 leggo will be

#

roughly

royal lantern Oct 4, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

tree fiddy

#

max

fallow otter Oct 4, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

yeh i dont know how much it costs for upgrade but you get the 1week of torghast amount (100 iirc) to craft one]

#

so i think the choice might be whether to upgrade or get a 2nd

#

if its the same cost

#

hopefully we dont have to make that choice

vestal dune Oct 4, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

Btw, when calculating the differences between legendaries, are the slots the leggo goes in relevant or are the differences too small? I mean like having a higher ilvl chest is going to give more stats than a wrist for example

tardy furnace Oct 4, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

can The Cypher of Broken Bone be obtained in bfa?

shy heron Oct 4, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

yeah

tardy furnace Oct 4, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

great thanks 😄

shy heron Oct 4, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

gl on your grind!

tardy furnace Oct 4, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

thanks mate 🙂

forest nacelle Oct 4, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT Oct 4, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

timid cloud Oct 4, 2020, 10:41 PM

#

Why does the Kyrian ability feel so...clunky...

#

Like it has a random chance to be 2-3-4 combo point finishers cast as a 7 point one, correct? Or am I missing something crucial there?

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:42 PM

#

yep

#

you cast ER, it charges either the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th cp

#

and if you finish on that cp, it acts as if it were a 7 cp finisher

timid cloud Oct 4, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

A 2 would be horrible, since we could seal fate, so how would our rotation fit? It just seems really awkward to like try to get a random 2 CP to maximize any other ability? Are we supposed to drop that on an evenom or a rupture? Does it count Slice & Dice?

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

doesn't count snd

#

and you could seal fate

#

but garrote and shiv don't seal fate

#

so worst situation is you garrote shiv to 2cp, envenom a 7cp in the shiv window

#

which sounds pretty good

#

and you would want an envenom on your cp I think, in shiv for sure

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

shiv prolly will proc SF at some point tbf

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

then its probably even better imo

#

cause you shiv crit to 2cp

#

gg

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

ye

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

but its honestly fine

#

cause you have 45 seconds to hit the cp

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

and in pvp if you really want the big envenom to finish then you can always PK

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

yea

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

it says damaging right? so no kidneys?

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

correct

#

no kidney, no snd

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

kk

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

even with internal bleeding

#

actually you'd always want to envenom wouldn't you

#

exsang isn't a thing anymore

#

and rupture is dps neutral per cp

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

yeah

#

i think anyway, unless you're gonna throw up a rupture and leave for a bit

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

ye I'm just saying rupture doesn't actually do more damage per tick if you give it more cp

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

yeah it's just duration

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

so the question is, are those 8 seconds worth more than the damage from 2 extra cp on an envenom

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

feelcraft

#

if you're not gonna use the envenom buff, and are using dashing, maybe?

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

ye idk

#

I was trying to fiddle with the kyrian APL

#

but I'm too peanut brain

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

lol

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

having it use the animacharged cp the way you want it to without fucking up the logic for the other finishers

#

is uh

#

a struggle to me

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

i'm too peanut brain for any APL work so

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

I'm learning :)

grizzled jay Oct 4, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

ER still has the bug where SnD will consume it though, but not give you any extra seconds.

#

Been that way since phase 1 alpha

#

lol

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

kekchamp

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

Im just gonna go Night Fae

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

bitch move

#

go kyrian and hate yourself

#

you won't

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

you right

#

i wont

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

kek

#

I'm thinking about night fae as well

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

Kyrian just feels nasty

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

yeah

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

and i don't want "free cloth/enchant"

#

i want the free meats

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

I don't have beta so I can't test to see what I think about it

#

its definitely the most interesting one

#

but idk

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

i was gonna say night fae causes a different kind of pain but even night fae doesn't use MA lmao

#

except in dungeons

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

Subterfuge + Zoldong

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

zoldong Yep

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

big pp

#

all the execute poisons

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

zoldick my favorite legendary

#

HyperGasm

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

even nicer, can still use Numbing with Niya n Burrs

#

cause burrs is slow

#

Trinket

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

yeah

#

trinkets are kinda omega overtuned atm

#

liquefying ooze is doing like 15% of our damage kek

timid cloud Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

Isn't spooky vampire red version poison™️ supposed to be on par with other covenants when it's completely maxed out?

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

it got reworked

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

vampire poison doesn't exist anymore

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

we also don't know the conduit for it yet

timid cloud Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

Oh, I didn't see that.

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

so

#

slaughter + slaughter poison is gone

#

replaced with flagellation

#

little more interesting

#

its basically razor coral

#

but gives mastery

timid cloud Oct 4, 2020, 11:23 PM

#

Oh I see, with Mastery.

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:23 PM

#

cast it, when you do finishers, it does some damage

#

after a while, you cast it again, gives you stat

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

although atm i believe it's bugged and you can't cast it again for the mastery

#

idk if that ever got fixed

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

idk either

#

I think its bugged still

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

balmy condor Oct 4, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

you can craft from the bench for that

#

if its really bad

#

wait this is #assassination

proper sage Oct 4, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

o fuck

#

LOL

surreal solar Oct 4, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

i was gonna say, whispyr, whatcha doin man

#

you slippin

proper sage Oct 4, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

🙂

low girder Oct 4, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

lmao

fleet whale Oct 5, 2020, 12:02 AM

#

at least for Sin CP generation is slow compared to sub and outlaw. Even with Seal fate hitting your charged finisher isn't that difficult

#

Just not a fan of being a "kyrian rogue"

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 12:04 AM

#

im just glad i can go Angel Rogue and not feel like im gimping myself 30% dps

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 12:04 AM

#

its kinkshaming time tmb

#

tdogGun

fleet whale Oct 5, 2020, 12:04 AM

#

well i'm glad the gap on any of the covenants aren't that large

royal lantern Oct 5, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

@balmy condor kinkshaming is my kink OwO

#

pls shame me

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

Ahegao

lunar flicker Oct 5, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

imBaby catJAM

slim jay Oct 5, 2020, 12:25 AM

#

Angel rogue pog

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:44 AM

#

@balmy condor do you think 1.5m cd trinkets are bad cause they would fall out of vendetta windows

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 1:44 AM

#

100% depends on the strength

#

blood is a 1.5min cd but you still hold that and its strong

#

also a good chance that the trinket isn't affected by vendetta

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

i am thinking the 2m haste one is better

📎 unknown.png

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

in which case its w/e anyway

#

ye

#

the 2min haste would win

#

if we're talking stat

fathom swift Oct 5, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

Most of the on use trinkets I've seen are stat ones not actual damage ones

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 1:46 AM

#

yeah, would be nice to have beta

#

I'm not malding or anything

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:53 AM

#

there's 2 damage ones from raid

#

Skulker's Wing and Dreadfire Vessel

#

Memory of Past Sins probably gonna be broken for Sub

fallow otter Oct 5, 2020, 1:54 AM

#

I find it very hard to get excited about trinkets

#

When reading about them

#

I need to see them in their final form, even if I test on beta likely get nerfs or buffs

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

there aren't a lot of ones that pop out like the EP ones

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

nighthold trinkets

#

badaLove

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

Skulker's will likely just be the best ST trinket though

#

Drest but only ST

fallow otter Oct 5, 2020, 1:55 AM

#

Boring

#

Press button dmg happens

#

Fml

low girder Oct 5, 2020, 1:56 AM

#

what's the RPPM on the centurion controller

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:56 AM

#

A unique one is Vial of Caustic Liquid, as you want to kill whatever target gets injected asap.

low girder Oct 5, 2020, 1:57 AM

#

oh it's a quest reward trinket

#

nvm

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:57 AM

#

tfw Whispyr never answered my dm from before i dm'd him last time

fallow otter Oct 5, 2020, 1:58 AM

#

You have to whisper him not dm

#

kekchamp

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:58 AM

#

a lot of these trinkets aren't gonna be viable cause they drop from rares or are quest rewards so can't be 226 like the vendor allows

low girder Oct 5, 2020, 1:59 AM

#

yeah i was just thinking the centurion controller seemed underbudget

#

but it's a quest reward so nvm

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 1:59 AM

#

like this is probably pretty good on Fort weeks, but it is from a rare so can't be above uhh i think 176

📎 unknown.png

fallow otter Oct 5, 2020, 2:01 AM

#

Probably get tuned to be for tanks

#

Maybe

frigid kestrel Oct 5, 2020, 2:15 AM

#

THis one will be nerfed to hell

📎 unknown.png

#

if not itll be easily BIS

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 2:29 AM

#

why would a dungeon trinket be nerfed just because it's bis

#

dice was never nerfed

frigid kestrel Oct 5, 2020, 2:29 AM

#

To me, it seems broken

#

%25 - %30 of my overall damage

#

But im speculating

#

so there is that... opinions and all

fathom swift Oct 5, 2020, 2:30 AM

#

Ok so itll just get nerfed then

frigid kestrel Oct 5, 2020, 2:31 AM

#

Yes @fathom swift itll just get nerfed

fallow otter Oct 5, 2020, 2:36 AM

#

Yeah needs a massive nerf which it will get

#

Also it might only be a world quest trinket and be a much lower ilvl max, so we replace it anyway

balmy condor Oct 5, 2020, 2:38 AM

#

It’s gonna get nerfed for sure

grizzled jay Oct 5, 2020, 2:38 AM

#

it's a dungeon drop so you'll never see it anyways

#

or at least, i won't

#

still don't have a Dice

frigid kestrel Oct 5, 2020, 2:44 AM

#

Ive thrown away a ton of Dice

#

whats the drop % on Dice? cause i didnt think it was that bad

#

Looked it up dont answer %5

vital haven Oct 5, 2020, 3:04 AM

#

@grizzled jay are you a patron of bloodmallet?