assa has an easy time with it
#assassination
crimson palm
amber quail
in beta i feel assa quite slow and don' understand why melee is usually top over abilityes(my details show same as NULLFOX)
amber quail
i don't understand why a dotter spec doesn't have dot as primary dmg font
final saffron
probably because slice and dice is way too strong compared to everything else
amber quail
same why the finisher isn't higher than melee
melee is top also whitout SaD
little more but still more
warm star
Kyrians have a problem > the free combo points when crit. we can't aim to the animacharges because of that...
amber quail
surely them fix the numers part
final saffron
I think it's fine if melee would be 50/50 with the 2nd highest dps ability or a bit under. But having it being the biggest impact is just really sad
amber quail
i think the gamplay will change when stats encrease BUT i think needs a "boost" on energy/CP
balmy condor
You can aim animacharges with shiv, garrote, and also fok/pk if you’re desperate
frigid kestrel
Sin always feels slow at the start of a xpac, but not this slow
amber quail
yes yes
final saffron
also anyone know the reason to why "white hits" still can miss? what's the argument for that after they got rid of hit rating?
balmy condor
Sins faster at the start of this expac than most tbh
Blindside and alacrity go a long way
frigid kestrel
you fr?
amber quail
i know, that's why i said that surely will encrease in growing stats(ongoing in exp)
frigid kestrel
i doesnt feel that way at all
balmy condor
Without blindside it’s super sluggish
crimson palm
do u have blindside vs ep sims
amber quail
also at BFA early was low, but there was SS to calibrate output
amber quail
blindside grants 2 free CP that helps a lot
crimson palm
conduits 15 kek
crimson palm
need a pelagos sim
crimson palm
ye
balmy condor
Tru
crimson palm
zoldyck + mp should be a thing on sire
can u do a sim with zoldyck 100% uptime on 3 mins
crimson palm
where's scoundrel in the comp >.>
balmy condor
Didn’t sim scoundrel in dslice
balmy condor
Lmao
The sim was to re-check the kyrian soulbinds for m+
I’ll do more sims tomorrow
fallow otter
fuck dslice 😄
@crimson palm haha im with u
grim jay
if kyrian remains top with night fae only slightly behind I'll go night fae I guess 😄
kyrian still seems
strange
grim jay
yeah I mean it would be a plus if its only slightly behind in st
balmy condor
Yep yep
grim jay
sad thing is I play pvp much so I need to care for that aswell
crimson palm
ur not simming kyrian with ct right
cuz with the CT buff and the cheap kyrian usage it could be way better
especially if packs last ~25-30s
balmy condor
I don’t know if the apl is equipped for that
So I avoided it
Something I’ll look into tomorrow
crimson palm
ill play it tonight and see what its like
cba playing sub would rather watch netflix while progressing
balmy condor
Yo big facts
verbal mantle
balmy condor
Big if true
grim jay
way more fun being the underdog and still outperforming others tho
crimson palm
with current tuning u aint gonna outperform sub xd
vestal wren
@grizzled jay thanks
slim jay
Has anything changed with covenant abilities? Is necro still looking the best atm?
verbal mantle
delicate bone
noone told him
delicate bone
kyrian is on top for most in the ucrrent beta build
stuff will still change forsure by launch
slim jay
charred oak
With Kyrian, does Echoing Reprimand choose a matching combo point randomly? I can't quite figure out how it's intended to function.
Sometimes the blue matching indicator is on another CP and doesn't seem to matter how many CPs I have when I activate it.
robust pasture
I think it is random
charred oak
Ok, thanks. That's what I assumed but thought maybe I was missing something.
robust pasture
I may be wrong but in my testing I couldn't find a pattern
warm star
if you miss, what's the CD to retry?
delicate bone
so you eventually should land on it, and be able to finish
warm star
so if I miss, I can retry for next rotation
delicate bone
yea, its a werid concept, and not the best designed ability
but its not hard to play with
bright lintel
it is the best designed ability by a mile, the numbers up until today were just not there
warm star
so every 45sec we can have a finisher considered as 7 cp ?
bright lintel
basicly
warm star
depends, what about boss combats with boss only?
necro, you put your dot and? spam 3 times
delicate bone
but it was able to be used still
it was one of the most versatile ones
helped cleave, and st
flag is essentially useless st
outside of st****
warm star
yeah, as soon as you have multiple enemies, each time you apply it does more and gives more cp + dot
fae seems fun but not usable in solo content
fae + leg MA
delicate bone
yea, im not a fan of the fae one
bright lintel
the combo isn't as strong as you might think
warm star
have to choose between +80% garrote or 100% when breaking stealth
grim jay
why would you say flag is useless outside of st? its just added prio damage that functions exactly the same as in ST if used in aoe
@warm star what solocontent is there in which you actually need to use hard cds tho?
except for some elites where it doesnt matter on the other hand aswell
warm star
I m trying to think
grim jay
what I dont know tho is how it interacts in the tower if you are solo
warm star
and... I have no answer 😄
I see some "mini boss" in the cov quests that I did for necro, that had some HP
but it s very rare
"what I dont know tho is how it interacts in the tower if you are solo" > I'd say as vanish does?
delicate bone
prio damage is insanely overvauled imo
grim jay
that would be rather bad tho I guess. I dont have beta access sadly
prio damage is still damage imo
there is a difference between useless and just not as good
while its obvious that its not as good in aoe since its a mainly ST ability
delicate bone
i mean yea? but the word is just thrown around so much to justify stuff that doesnt make snese when you have better options
it giving "prio dmg" makes it not nearly as good as sbs in cleave, regardless
grim jay
its still currently looking far better to take it in general since sbs is virtually trash in st
flag atleast does something in aoe aswell
while sbs barely does something st
warm star
I really need a translator. I mained fury for so long. (sbs, st?)
grim jay
sbs = bonespike
st = singletarget
delicate bone
i mean, nothing matters right now if were being honest
sure sbs got nerfed for this build
but its beta
warm star
a lot can still change in 3 weeks
delicate bone
and while i will be making a kyrian tonight and messing around with the ability, since that is their reasoning mainly for destroying sbs
to test other things
im not too worried about it
fallow otter
thats not even the reason that it'll be ok, the sims are pretty even and thats good
grim jay
yeah sure, but it tbf is in a place where it should be. lower side of ST, good in cleave
delicate bone
but
fallow otter
things can get even more even
delicate bone
you get more value from cleave with it, than you get from st with flag
i hope things get more uneven tbh
fallow otter
flag doesnt have a conduit yet
grim jay
^
delicate bone
i would like to see one cov as the go to for rogue, dont really care which one
we dont use the conduits for other abilites really, i dont see it mattering
grim jay
@balmy condor do you know how flag is used on sims?
currently
@delicate bone im mostly on your side with that
delicate bone
its just going to get tedious i think.. if one is best for m+ one for raid and one for pvp
and i just dont want to deal wit hthat lol
out of nothing other than pure laziness
grim jay
I usually play 2 different classes for pushing high m+ anyways
I mostly raid with rogue and get the max ilvl stuff I need from m+
somber fractal
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
grim jay
and just push higher with my alt xd
civic hinge
Hey, characters got wiped today in beta, any chance to get a template lv 60 char or get the previous ones back? Or is it leveling again?
delicate bone
unless its a huge cleave fight like hivemind, where ill play outlaw
make a toon on torghast @civic hinge
grim jay
covenants even made me feel like needing to play a second rogue as I've first read about them
fallow otter
the more even they are the more you can just pick for the fun of it
grim jay
since I raid, m+ AND pvp
fallow otter
you guys should be happy its close and getting closer for sims
grim jay
it kinda felt necessary in my mind
strange python
Is assassination will be good for shadowland? Deciding on which spec to play.
delicate bone
i mean, tbf, im not really picking a cov for "the fun of it" idc about how they look or whatever lol
grim jay
well I wouldnt mind having a covnenat thats more pleasant for the eye
but my pick will always be the better one aswell
grizzled jay
@vestal wren np, also would like to add that this spec is impossible to play without WAs lmao so many pandemics and empowered dots to keep track of
grim jay
@vestal wren since you got pinged anyways, how is flag currently being used in sims?
vestal wren
it should optimize for debuff uptime
so in essence "re-use" when the debuff runs out
vestal wren
ye
all the damage of the ability is atm in the debuff so there is no reason to not try to optimize that one
grim jay
ye just wasnt sure if it was implemented that way after the rework of the ability
hollow ether
ER kind of ruins your opener for sin, doesn' it? if you hit 3/4 you have to pray for crit or no crit on muti since you don't want to override garrote.
seems like ER would be hardest to work with
meager arch
you could open with ER>garrote>finisher
oh wait nvm... ER gives combo points also
you have 45 seconds to use it anyways though
so you just use it on a garrote at some point i guess
should work out
hollow ether
you'll have to wait until the first one falls off potentially lol
it wasn't terribly hard to work it in with outlaw on beta
haven't tried it with sub yet but it probably isn't hard, it just wouldn't be fun with how fast the rotation is
grim jay
I mean since you will eventually get it
it doesnt really matter at all
the only difference might be if you get it inside of some other cd
but not sure if that would make a big difference
hollow ether
good point
vital haven
@balmy condor why you roasting me while im sleeping man 
cant even defend myself
vestal wren
soulbinds:
tired apex
is wowhead not up to date ? I'm not able to choose MM on the 3rd slot of Theotar like you did
grizzled jay
Are you set to Rogue?
tired apex
yes
looks like this on my end
dps and survivability slots are switched
doesnt change much i guess
shut garnet
is night fae simming highest for assa rn?
topaz axle
buffed and others nerfed?
vestal wren
is night fae simming highest for assa rn?
no
give me 5-10 mins to run a sim, will update covenant choices after
ST with soulbinds + rank 7 conduits + legendary
sick scarab
aaargh
shy heron
@nimble hill important to note that the cost got dropped from 30 to 10 as well
sick scarab
mnioght faie last
nimble hill
True
sick scarab
fuck my life
vestal wren
fae gets some ranks in dungeon slice, but seems to not get up to necro level
yes
to explain why emi is on top, the soulbind has no icd and we can trigger it very easy with bone spike so it opts 15% dps, have fun.
nimble hill
lmfao
sick scarab
night fae Niya ? it is bad ?
vestal wren
oh wait, did i copy the wrong fae
sick scarab
!!!
vestal wren
well, don't think it will change a lot, but lets see
vestal wren
moment, letme recheck my sims first
delicate bone
most people streaming beta are streaming what strongest/newest, so youll see manly sub right now
sick scarab
yep
rocky ruin
vestal wren
there we go:
bright lintel
you are the hero we need @vestal wren
vestal wren
emi is still rly strong
i tested all covenants with ma, but dashing > ma
(for dungeon slice)
crimson palm
ye that seems better
bright lintel
btw how much is sin behind sub currently on a st fight?
gaunt yew
"night fae niya" - which legendary?
bright lintel
I do, and thx for the info
strange python
i understand that balancing is constantly happening but when can we expect it to set in
dawn merlin
last root
balmy condor
halcyon grail
Nein
balmy condor
All the sims done?
fleet whale
so night fae is a decent choice if you don't want to deal with ER?
strange python
so why dont sin rogues have an aoe combo point spender 😩 that you dont have to talent into
vestal wren
i am not sure if i should pin the sim, the covenant ranking in the master pin is more or less reflecting those
obtuse anvil
it is helpful from those sims to see that specific soulbind traits are doing heavy lifting
vestal wren
soulbinds have some outliners still
obtuse anvil
beyond the covenant choice
vestal wren
so ye, the ranking will change a lot^^
balmy condor
I tend to err on the side of more pins more info
Just so it’s easier to find the main sims
vestal wren
i have a idea
balmy condor
Instead having to from: fuu in: assassination has: image
vestal wren
is that good?
vestal wren
this should work fairly well:
balmy condor
vestal wren
gotta farm the golden transmogs
next week: gotta grap some plastic tooths and put glitter on your face
the week after: gotta get a bonsai tree
... the cycle of beta continues
grim jay
but you have to be prepared for the fashiongame
balmy condor
Lmao
grim jay
the earlier the better
we dont have that many resets before we might need them
after all a good xmog nets a flat 10% dps increase
obtuse anvil
farming a good mog is the true endgame of SL
harsh sphinx
@vestal wren do conduits in tier 1 even go up to rank 7? thought the expected cap for the tier is 5
balmy condor
Mythic is 7
harsh sphinx
ignore me. just saw the wowhead post
balmy condor
Gottem
vestal wren
damn, i was to slow
tired apex
@vestal wren what do you use to build soulbinds ? The ones I see on wowhead have significant differences from your pictures, like paths having a utility spot instead of dps
vestal wren
spell ids
harsh sphinx
thx though
vestal wren
soulbind=<id>
tired apex
ye but what tool to see the actual tree ?
tired apex
If I check necrolord Emeni
3rd slot is a utility slot
on your picture it's a dps one
tired apex
venthyr Theothar is also different but just a swap, on emeni it makes choosing the same path as you impossible since there's only 2 dps slots if you start from the chanel while moving one
will fix in a minute
balmy condor
Should check the other spec ones too probably
vestal wren
its outlaw/sin probably because i copy/pasted from sub
but #fix in a min
thanks for mentioning
tired apex
np that's why we're here 🙂
frigid kestrel
Good catch Ma man
vestal wren
soulbinds:
fleet whale
for the second to last "talent" in niya's tree
it doesn't matter what you pick right? Both seem like utility stuff
vestal wren
ye, there are some optional picks
i just went with w/e there
only the dps conduits and soulbinds rly matter
fleet whale
yeah, but i suppose nature's splendor can help you get some extra gold lol
vestal wren
i probably would spec like in the picture but others might not, i think its nice to have some optional things
crimson palm
any numbers on Reverberation?
crimson palm
its rougly 70% AP every 45s
vestal wren
~1.6% dps on rank 7 iirc
crimson palm
rank 1
vestal wren
vs. 0.3-0.6% from others
crimson palm
hmm
ye
it should be the best choice
lethal poison is 0.3*4.5%AP
on avg around 1% AP increase per second
Reveb should actually be the best on ST
vestal wren
the big issue is that we have 2 good conduits
that are rly strong dps wise but 2 barely usefull ones (for sin)
so the covenant ones are decent alternatives
fleet whale
is maim mangle strong?
crimson palm
well mut does 35% + 35%*0.5 AP
so 52.5% AP * 1.2
so 10%AP increase on Mut
im wondering what the trinket sims are like
there are some pretty damn good ones
fleet whale
liquefying ooze op
vestal wren
idk out of my head
fleet whale
so we should farm for this liquefying ooze trinket?
crimson palm
its defo gonna get nerfed lmao
fleet whale
so it's a very good my'das talisman
crimson palm
well its passive
fleet whale
oh it isn't even on use lol
fleet whale
also i was looking around the dungeon journal on beta
there is still a trinket that says NYI for it's effect
this close to release lol
balmy blade
hey guys, is venthyr ability working?
balmy condor
currently bugged to where you can't recast
grizzled jay
NS Vanish Rupture back baby
crimson palm
9k with MA
fleet whale
i still might go night fae
crimson palm
with MA lego and NS XD
holy fuck if u manage to do an anima charge in MA window
its so much fkin burst
envenom hits for like 11k and echo for 12k
frigid kestrel
Ye that trinket is straight broken, I did the same exact set up and posted it earlier this morning. That’s def gonna get nerfed.
frigid kestrel
I tried that other one, the poison on that you use and get a poison application on your weapons...... that one is lack luster
lean marten
that doesn't exist anymore
frigid kestrel
...... what doesn’t exist?
fleet whale
he's talking about trinkets
lean marten
hemo posted liquifying ooze was good like 10 posts ago
frigid kestrel
Ye I did as well this morning, but I’m talking about the other trinket that I tested out too and is lack luster.
This one
lean marten
that one and liquifying ooze are so similiar wtf lol
frigid kestrel
@lean marten Na the Liquifying OOS is just straight broken. Cause it does more damage, stacks, and applies every 5 seconds vs less damage, non stacking, RNG procs.
lean marten
yeh i meant similiar as in when u say "that trinket that puts the poison on your weps" could be either
which is where this confusion came from
frigid kestrel
O ye def
tired apex
it happened
quaint sequoia
well rip my time off work
fading wigeon
where did you guys ssee that its delayed?
fading wigeon
oh wow
sterile jackal
tbh thats good
sterile jackal
they admitted that it is not in a good state and they are willing to fix it
quaint sequoia
not for all the ppl that have taken time of work
quaint sequoia
I wont be able to take it later instead
honest vessel
quaint sequoia
This is the most mad I have been at blizz ever
jolly comet
wasnt too long ago they released the initial release date yea?
fleet whale
it would be broken as shit if it released on Oct 26th
some shit prolly still will be broken
but i won't be as broken
balmy condor
this isn't a sin discussion btw and they're having the same convo in #wow-general :)
final saffron
27min stream @balmy condor gotta pump those numbers up!
balmy condor
lul my internet fucking dumpstered itself
lean marten
have you tried turning it off and on again whispyr
restive oyster
balmy condor
their blue post says that they're talking about when the new release date should be
quaint sequoia
All my plans for this fall got fucked with this
obtuse anvil
go apple pickin
gentle apex
Question: did the legion artifact weapon questline for assassination break or something
The smoke bomb part doesn't work
wowhead says it's borked
worldly fable
gentle apex
I fixed it by making a macro to /cast and /use the spells or items they want you to cast
a bit bizzare but sure that works I guess
low girder
currently yes, but obv with this extra time theoretically things could change. margins aren't big though
balmy condor
yep
dapper tulip
Rip bone spike
silent fossil
Rip that skill that does 9 less dps*
balmy condor
what is doing 9 less?
silent fossil
just commenting on all the people saying rip necrolords even though all of the skills do basically the same dmg right now 
low girder
without the other interlocking pieces, yes
balmy condor
low girder
more balancing to come
balmy condor
with conduits and stuff
you're seeing 10%
and considering where it used to be
that's a huge shift
but yes, its definitely more balanced now
knotty bear
isn't sub like 1k ahead
low girder
1.5k
knotty bear
christ
low girder
ye
subtle drift
Venthyr is only so far behind cause we don't have the conduit for it yet, right?
outer condor
balmy condor
yeah venthyr is missing a conduit
crimson palm
Sin is missing some stuff in apl
Should be a bit closer
But defo needs a baseline buff
fleet whale
doubt it
balmy condor
affected by shiv, not sin mastery
willow vine
Are all the covenants balanced for sin now
royal lantern
they are pretty close too eachother
willow vine
Hell yeah
low girder
once venthyr gets it's conduit at least 😛
dapper tulip
Does the bleed from bone spike still scale with mastery
balmy condor
no
dapper tulip
Fun detected...
I bet you they let stuff like the Venthyr ability scale off Unholy's mastery
grim jay
and subs deeper daggers
😄
tho I dont feel like they will
and I dont think a cov ability should scale off of something else than maybe mainstat and vers
dapper tulip
I was talking about the mist ability
grim jay
it doesnt matter, its pretty much the same
since rogue venthyr deals shadow damage and deeper daggers would buff it, it would be the same as with unholy mastery and their skill
both stupid
and a mess designwise
if it would end up that way
amber quail
@grim jay indeed...i did mind couple of time and also encreese my opinion that SL is a bad designed exp. the worst ever looking that side of the game. i don't want a second BFA that start in a way and modify a lot casue of the bad design by the dev.
i can't stop thinking them need to postpone all and redisigne all the fking concept.
need to give use something new on BfA to w8 some months to change the most of SL.
this is only my opinion and blizzard can surprise us.
steep obsidian
I think 50% of the wow player base only plays it to bitch about how bad it is nowadays
pure mauve
Hello! As mag'har ork can i macro my racial with vendetta??
verbal mantle
#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Ancestral Call
/cast Vendetta
never played Maghar, try this it should work
@pure mauve
and I assumed you were talking about this specific racial ability
pure mauve
Thx man!! Yes. When i arrive home i'll macro!
crimson palm
@vestal wren did u do any testing to see if its better to always use 7cp rupture or 7cp shiv envenom with animacharged
vestal wren
haven't
verbal mantle
Thx man!! Yes. When i arrive home i'll macro!
@pure mauve pleasure is mine mate
vestal wren
i mean the spell just changed ^^
crimson palm
frail fossil
!guides
verbal mantle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
mystic summit
So what was changed with Pelagos that makes the soulbind now bis for all specs?
vestal wren
they nerfed pelagos
Combat Meditation was nerfed by ~ 50%
but Let Go of the Past did not change what is still rly strong
i think you asked the wrong question btw.
the reaon kyrian is now strong is that blizz changed the covenant ability
mystic summit
Oh yeah just looked into the change, that's much better than it was. Still kinda wish I could use it for non-damaging abilities too.
slim jay
oh wait they are implementing that soft cap on secondaries arent they?
strange python
No I'm not talking about that
slim jay
oh slice and dice?
vestal wren
i would rather point at alacrity
snd does not rly seem to have a big impact on stats
balmy condor
I would also say that we don’t have much in the way of bleed systems this time around like SS, and a lot of our damage is coming from sources that aren’t directly haste-based
balmy condor
lethal badge
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
lunar whale
Okay cool so I need a decent keybind for it
balmy condor
highest priority finisher
surreal solar
It's a buff, you're going to want up, almost as often as garrote/rupture
90% or more uptime
surreal solar
I'm accounting for fools Whispyr
balmy condor
should have 0 issue getting 100% with pandemic
pandemic is like 12 seconds or something crazy
surreal solar
I was shown a complete idgit last night, who had all the correct pieces and talents, but they had uptimes in the dirt
balmy condor
lmao
balmy condor
yeah
you get those every now and then
I reviewed a log for someone and they had 23% garrote uptime on shadhar
surreal solar
like, 90% while still, BAD, is accounting for idgits at least
balmy condor
happens
lunar whale
I’m said idget I’m so lost when it comes to rogue lmao
I played bm hunter in 8.2-8.3
balmy condor
sin is mega ez imo
balmy condor
if things aren't ticking
lunar whale
Than I should be fine lol
balmy condor
make them tick
:')
rupture garrote not ticking?
make them tick
slice not ticking?
make it tick
envenom uptime? make it tick
and there ya go
90% of your damage
ez pz
there's very little outside of your opener that you can fuck up
like you have to really struggle to find something to do completely wrong
even if you just hit every button on cooldown, you're usually still fine
with exsang and SS and all that, it was a little easier to mess things up, overwriting snapshotted bleeds for example
lunar whale
Ik the basics
balmy condor
but aside from that
surreal solar
we go back to the old way of no Exsang/SS, which is just stealthed Garrote being the only Boosted Bleed
lunar whale
I’m confused on when to use toxic blade
balmy condor
on cooldown
surreal solar
^
lunar whale
Okay that’s good to know
So pretty much keep bleeds and end up at all time and use toxic blade on cooldown ez
lunar whale
Vanish for what?
balmy condor
every covenant ability is also basically on cooldown
surreal solar
Vanish for Subterfuge boosted garrotes
lunar whale
Ahh okay
balmy condor
yeah
delicate bone
i found the exsang opener to be a nice changeup
balmy condor
with subt, garrote and 2 ambushes
lunar whale
Is there a guide with all of this info so I can research and practice a bit
balmy condor
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
lunar whale
Ig I should just wait for sl to actually drop lmao because there are still a lot of changes
balmy condor
are there
maintain snd, use blindside procs when possible
and uh............
uhhh.....
covenant abilities
:')
sin is probably one of the least changed specs in the game tbh
we got nothing
pure hornet
Hello All. Getting back to rogue after some time off. For Exsanguinate do i need to have my crit at or more than 32% before stacking haste? Im currently at 63% haste and 26% crit
surreal solar
yeet that idea, Exsang likely goes splat with prepatch in 1 and a half weeks
Blindside is 1st row talent
balmy condor
blindside is the talent
in the first row
gives us free ambush procs sometimes
its shit right now
but it's the single target go to in sl
@pure hornet exsang is just haste > crit/mast > vers
lunar whale
So how does one go about aoe as sin lmao
balmy condor
there's no break points
lunar whale
Is it just spam fan and just apply bleeds to what you can
lunar whale
Seems easy enough lmao
pure hornet
Thanks @balmy condor
lunar whale
Well I’m known for swapping classes every other month so I’m planning on sticking with rogue that’s why I want to get all this down
I’ve never really played rogue in pve
I was the guy who swapped to rogue in cata and just pvp’d lmao
lunar whale
Yeah I’m tempted to take my rogue off my main server and just play it lol
balmy condor
It’s a great time
sand pewter
rogue is especially nice if you like being that guy who can do tasks during raids
sand pewter
hunter too really
balmy condor
hunter/mage are the preffered
sand pewter
mage kit is a little overloaded lol
frigid kestrel
any trinket sims out yet? I know of two that seem to be a bit over the top broken, but that's me testing on a training dummy, not actual numbers from a robot/Machine.
frigid kestrel
Makes sense
balmy condor
even in game there's like 1 or 2 that are still WIP
and the effects are tuned basically every week
just too volatile tldr
grim jay
people already worrying about trinkets. last time I spoke with someone on beta they were mostly over the top broken
balmy condor
yep
frigid kestrel
IDK
Ive used a few that were very underperforming
I haven't used all of the trinkets but out of the 5 I've used, only 2 seem to be super stupid.
grim jay
gotta appreciate the calmness in here for a sec
compared to the daily shitshow on sub
yeah not every trinket is broken but the ones that are make up for the others
frigid kestrel
ye
balmy condor
lovingly referred to it as the swamp
frigid kestrel
Phial is uber busted and the Darkmoon card is lit af
verbal mantle
swamp 
balmy condor
swamp 
frigid kestrel
I read sub channel for shits a giggles once in a while.... then come back to sin to lurk and appreciate
pliant fractal
Well if tuning happens you might be playing it because it's the best
fleet whale
so many people in the sub channel want sin to be bad
never got why pure dps classes always have mindsets like that
balmy condor
cause people want to be better than others
and the fastest way to do that
is putting everyone else down
fleet whale
rather than hoping for their favorite spec to be good
pliant fractal
People reminisce for the days that the biggest arguments we had were which spec is better
fleet whale
I mean i've played sin when it's been bad and good
pliant fractal
In reality, all three rogue specs are useful and Blizzard will probably get them all closer in performance with the delay
grim jay
I actually couldnt care less if sin or sub is better than the other
fleet whale
I mean i don't really either
grim jay
as long as its not outlul being stronger 
fleet whale
I just like sin more so i play it more
fleet whale
but i just don't get why people are like "I hope sin is dead" or "i hope sub is dead"
balmy condor
but I always end up back at sin
grim jay
well I sometimes ain't even sure if they are serious or just meme-ing
fleet whale
And difficulty wise i don't really find sub to be that much harder than Sin
delicate bone
same reason this man just said outlul
theres some weird spec to spec hatred
in rogue
fleet whale
it happens to other pure's too
delicate bone
but i want atleast sin or sub to be strong myself so i can raid with it
fleet whale
but rogues may be the worse in that regard
grim jay
nah I dont want outlul to be bad, just not better than one of the others
its no hate, I just dont like the spec
delicate bone
i mean, i like outlaw being the best in m+ since thats its niche
grim jay
^ i dont mind that
delicate bone
the other 2 should have raid, or atleast one of them
and then outlaw is a joke in pvp, the other 2 have that going for them as well
fleet whale
or their own strengths and weaknesses in raid
fleet whale
like Sin is better for cleave/downtime, and for extended burst with vendetta
delicate bone
yea i mean i jump around spec for different content, so i honestly just like rogue in general
fleet whale
sub for prio damage, and better ST assuming very high uptime
grim jay
I really liked combat tho
I kinda dont like outlul with the pistol stuff
thats about it for me
and yeah I actually would like it being balanced like that. with every spec best in their specific part
fleet whale
it was like that in wod, but i don't want it to maybe be that insane
in wod sub and assassin were useless in aoe
the two specs could have serviceable aoe
grim jay
I really like the wod sub for raids tho
fleet whale
while outlaw could have serviceable ST
surreal solar
I just find most sub guys to be toxic, and enjoy violently stomping their scores when they show up
fleet whale
tbf
balmy condor
half of sub is just fotm toxic rerollers
fleet whale
most of the sub people are from FH lol
shy dust
fleet whale
in bfa the actual sub players were just trying to find ways to get the biggest evis crits
and doing fun stuff like that
balmy condor
@shy dust you don't know that and you can't prove it cause the vod is gone so fuck you
:)
your word against mine see you in court buddy
surreal solar
@vestal wren are the paths on the Soulbind Pin also the "current" best? i thought we wanted the interupt poison and the 3rd potency?
^ Night fae Niya
balmy condor
soulbinds are up to date
vestal wren
i don't think its better
surreal solar
3rd potency doesn't make that big of a deal?
vestal wren
would need to be a quite substential dps win to be worth
surreal solar
shrug just wanted to check, so long as i get my free leather/meats im good
balmy condor
after maim and lethal poisons
the next conduits aren't really great
reverberations is okay
but a lot of the time, a soulbind trait is just better
wps is actually awful
sf was awful even before the bone spike nerf
vestal wren
burrs is ~5-6% dps, a 3rd potency trait is less than 1% so the poison trait needs to be quite big to be worth
balmy condor
so unless they tune those conduits up its gonna be difficult to find reason for a 3rd potency compared to how strong some soulbinds are
surreal solar
yeah... makes sense, burrs is just a random proc while the poison is only when kicked
iron valve
uh... what? the poison requires an interrupt, it would probably ONLY be usable in m+
surreal solar
yeah, but its only on successful kicks
you whiff the kick cause someone kicked faster?
the guy with burrs chuckles and continues doing more dmg
pliant fractal
Maybe it's time to add interrupts to raid encounters
surreal solar
with a slow to boot
delicate bone
dont mess up kicks 🙂
surreal solar
burr's also causes slows, sooo can take numbing and not feel bad
balmy condor
yeah in m+ double kicking is pretty deadly a lot of the time
need to call your kicks
crimson palm
4k avg in dung, doesnt seem bad
quaint vessel
who is better Milikanios or Kleia for assa?
quaint vessel
yeah i know but pelayos is for suti
quaint vessel
ty
balmy condor
any time 
celest mountain
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
celest mountain
!ui
strange python
Is Dashing Scoundrel supposed to also increase crit chance of Envenom? I am getting some weird results on ~5min combat on a dummy.
My crit chance is only 15% but 35% of my envenoms crit. Without legendary it drops down to 13,5% which is kind of expected
frigid kestrel
@crimson palm second trinket Darkmoon haste steal?
frigid kestrel
Ahh gotcha, nice synergy
balmy condor
@strange python yes, dashing does increase envenom crit rate, and sims also show that. I'm not sure if its a documented bug or intended though, but that's how it's been working
the PR profile goes from ~21% crit on envenom without to ~40% crit with dashing
which seems consistent with what you're seeing
crimson palm
7cp CT with kyrian is pog
frigid kestrel
Most def if
Just still annoying to work in for me.
I gotta stop being brain dead and think what to use to get them CP to align the right way.
strange python
@balmy condor Thanks, i wonder what approach blizz will take...the extra crit on envenom feels nice, but seeing the tooltip, it does look like a bug
balmy condor
well it's consistent at least
cause envenom is also buffed by sin's mastery
which also just says "poisons"
the wording on both of them is super vague though
sour wraith
Whats the new ER? Or has it changed at all?
balmy condor
its been buffed af
fleet whale
it's just better
balmy condor
same old er
sour wraith
Dang
surreal solar
same ER just massively boosted initial hit dmg
fleet whale
well, not just that
sour wraith
It still feels clunky to me 
oh well
fleet whale
it actually buffs rupture/snd/ct etc
fleet whale
yeah, but it was a pretty big bug fix imo
and yeah the gap isn't that large between kyrian and night fae
and venthyr might be fine too
surreal solar
the gaps all kind of closed in with the number shifting
sure, stuff still needs tuning
but its not like "ALL MUST FOLLOW LAMP"
fleet whale
yeah but even if something was 10 dps better than another
the meta hivemind will all just go for the 10 dps increase lol
surreal solar
of course
i'm still going for what looks good, and still feels aight
which, means, i need 1 person to go venthyr, and one to go night fae
frigid kestrel
Doesn’t buff SnD
Seems like it’s just damaging finishers
Everytime I use SnD on training dummy it’s not consumed
Unless it’s buggy or I’m just stupid, that’s what I’ve seen testing
fleet whale
i saw a vid where it consumed and increased its duration
not that you are gonna use it on snd anyway though lol
crimson palm
Only open question is whether to use it on shiv envenom or extend rupture
strange python
i was really against ER, wishing for it to be redesigned completely, but the more i play with it, the more it's growing on me
my only issue with it is that it doesn't really feel to have that much of an impact using 7cp finisher...i do wish it would also be usable with SnD though
crimson palm
Snd duration can also be a thing but it doesn't work with it
The extra cp and the finisher does a lot for a starved spec like sin
fleet whale
the initial hit is pretty big too
strange python
true, the CP generation also helps sin given its low CD
crimson palm
Try it with ma and nightstalker vendetta macro in pvp
It hits for half health pool xd
grim jay
dunno on the sim with r7 conduits and bis legendary there is some difference
5.5% is quite something
on dungeon slice night fae and kyrian are close however, ye
frigid kestrel
@fleet whale Just tested again, it doesn't consume on SnD, but to your point wouldn't use it anyway even if it did. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/758680121
grim jay
^thats what most people mentioned aswell
frigid kestrel
I am assuming Shiv Envenom ER is the play > ER Rupture.
balmy condor
yup
crimson palm
Depends what does more dmg per cp
fleet whale
Does doomblade work with CT
crimson palm
Ye
fleet whale
not that this would ever sim well at all, but Doomblade
plus Deeper stratagem, plus CT rupture garrote doomblade bleed
plus ER buff, plus shiv
plus vendetta, plus EP, plus nightstalker vanish
pray that envenom crits, there you go, big envenom hit
crimson palm
Can't set that up, no resources xd
sonic sierra
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
final saffron
please guys I can't keep up xD
balmy condor
lmao
fleet whale
Sin gets buffed, sub gets nerfed. If that happens, that number will be like 2000 lol
final saffron
it's been fine for weeks, but after the last build this channel is just poppin
final saffron
well Kyrian one I feel has an interesting concept but gameplay wise I'm not sure it's gonna be fun using, have to try it tho
frigid kestrel
It’s not that bad once you get use to it. I remember when I was just testing every covenant out I immediately didn’t like the feel of it.
final saffron
well it seems you have to mix in like poisoned knife or something in the rotation which I dunno feels good at all, and imagine that unlucky crit? 
Ferals have the same problem with their "bloodtalons" talent
crimson palm
U have 45s to plan ur usage
low girder
you don't use PK, you just try for it the next time
crimson palm
And u can fok for 1 cp
final saffron
hmm, guess you can probably proc it if you have 45 secs without using any weird abilites , good point
balmy condor
yeah
you don't even need to fok
shiv gives 1 and can't seal fate
garrote gives 1 and can't seal fate
fleet whale
don't forget about poison knife
final saffron
Damaging finishing moves that consume the same number of combo points as your Animacharge function as if they consumed 7 combo points, wait a sec... Does this mean we can get 8 second Kidney shot if we pick "Internal Bleeding"? hahah
I really hope that will be a bug at the start of the expac
balmy condor
yeah I don't think that works
kindred cliff
What's the current optimal usage of shiv on beta? Do you still pool around it like you do with tb is it too small to be worth playing around?
final saffron
"slightly"
crimson palm
Pooling properly was a small gain in the past
fleet whale
it will matter a little bit more with our bad energy regen at the start
final saffron
@frigid kestrel can you try my idea? you had beta right? :d
frigid kestrel
@final saffron not home, can test when I get home or Hemo would in the interim.
final saffron
whoever feels up to it, I'm curious even tho it's a longshot!
kindred cliff
Question, does night fae covenant ability work with dashing scoundrel legendary?
kindred cliff
Damn, ty
grave scroll
a s s requires less APM, c/d?
grave scroll
trying to play the spec that wont kill me hands/carpal tunnel trigggerrr
i know sub is apm heavy so
balmy condor
yeah sin is currently like 40apm
grave scroll
kk koool
crimson palm
Sin fits a netflix episode between casts
grave scroll
yea perfect.
shut garnet
wont kyrian be super bad compared to the others on anything with an added target(s) tho
fleet whale
if you can get a 7 cp CT then not really
low girder
because sin is undertuned
low girder
yeah
crimson palm
About 30% behind
crimson palm
Ye