assassination

[alpine latch]

I assumed it did

[balmy condor]

its only ever procced off rupture and envenom

[alpine latch]

Gotcha

[balmy condor]

the main appeal of that the way I see it is just free auto damage

the poison damage is probably minimal too

[alpine latch]

fair enough

[balmy condor]

10% chance for a chance to apply a poison

is basically worthless tbh

like it's definitely some % increase to poison damage, which is like 20% of your damage

but realistically, not going to change much

[alpine latch]

fair enough

[normal olive]

Mastery stack

[balmy condor]

although it could interact with dashing scoundrel I guess

so you could get energy off of it? idk now it's getting real feelycraft

tldr is, probably not a huge gain

[alpine latch]

Yeah, fair enough

A lot of our convo was based around whether or not you'd even see more than 2-4 melee in the top mythic raiding guilds, so it was a bit of a silly convo anyway. Just figured I'd pop in and ask

Thanks!

[balmy condor]

np

[coarse tusk]

Its 20% now

[balmy condor]

[fleet whale]

i just realised if you use an uldir azerite piece in uldir

you'll get like 1500 bonus haste cause of expedient lol

[fleet anchor]

I mean if they stick with the ICD on Windfury it won't be that amazing for us 😦

Even if they lower it from 1s to 0.5s like I have heard they will, that is still problematic for DW classes

Especially since swing timers can sync up

Can't really say why they want to implement it kinda like vanilla WF (re-proccing melee swing) but not like vanilla WF (don't allow B2B procs) when they could implement it as a simple one-off proc like Windfury Weapon lol

[lean marten]

poisons take wep buff slot in classic so u can't get WF is that how it works in SL?

[fleet anchor]

atm there's no conflict, it's just a buff

You can even have poisons and sharpening stones on beta atm

which is kinda odd

[lean marten]

can you still stack the non-deadly poisons still as well?

[fleet anchor]

yes

[lean marten]

das a lot of wep buffs lolol

[fleet anchor]

Yeah it's kinda dumb lol

[balmy condor]

and they said slice and dice does nothing for sin

smh my head

[fleet whale]

stacking non-lethals looks unintentional

[fleet anchor]

I mean SnD does damage for Assassination

It just doesn't do anything that we would notice outside of Details 😛

If they flipped VV around to proc from poisons on bleeding targets rather than bleed ticks on poison targets we'd be in business but alas lol

[fleet whale]

will SnD even be worth casting

in aoe situations?

[balmy condor]

on 2 target yes, not on 3, and then again on 7, but you replace it for rupture at 4, and fok on 9

makes sense?

[grizzled jay]

i am fine with SnD just being a dps button

so you dont need to maintain 100% uptime

it gives Sin a more unique way of using snd

[fleet whale]

eh... i think that's almost stretching to justify SnD being there for sin

and if blizz wanted to make sin a harder spec there were other ways to do it than just adding in snd

[grizzled jay]

well they didn't add SnD to 'sin'

they made SnD baseline

so sin just gets access to it

it wasn't like they sat down and drew up how each spec would use snd

they just added it to the class

[lusty nacelle]

@alpine latch the discussion you had with your GM was accurate back in vanilla. Poisons and WF totem were a wep enchant, and you could only get one at a time, so rogues had to remove the poison off their main hand, to get the WF buff, and that was the only weapon that could proc WF, so no poison procs

[fleet whale]

or alternatively they could just make cut to the chase a passive again for assassination, which was around from wotlk through mop

[grizzled jay]

and made sin a 2 button spec

no thanks

[fleet whale]

garrote, mut, ambush(if talented), shiv, rupture, SnD

cut to the chase turns sin into a 2 button spec?

[grizzled jay]

well you'd never press snd

after the opener

lol

but yes when all buffs are up you'd be a 2 button spec

which is boring

snd at least adds a 3rd button to press that needs thought

[fleet whale]

i mean if you look at it that way

sub is basically a 2 button spec, you're still spamming SS or backstab and evis most of the time

[grizzled jay]

well right now you have to weave in low-cp NBs for NV

[balmy condor]

[grizzled jay]

so you have a constant low-duration buff to upkeep to keep your damage high

[fleet whale]

i was more talking about SL sub

[grizzled jay]

they definitely slowed Sub down

i never said Sub was fast

[balmy condor]

thats.... not the argument

[fleet whale]

if you are going to take away maintenance buffs and small cds from sin, to call it a "2 button spec"

then the same can be done for sub and it also turns into a 2 button spec

[grizzled jay]

wrath to mop sin was 100% a 2 button spec cause Garrote outside of stealth wasn't added until very recently correct

[balmy condor]

we're talking shadowlands

[grizzled jay]

who si we

you aren't in this conversation

[fleet whale]

i just don't know how you think

[lean marten]

this mans had toomanybeans again

[fleet whale]

if you add Cut to the chase in SL, it turns sin into a 2 button spec suddenly

[lusty nacelle]

stealth requirement for garrote was removed in Legion, 7.0.1

[grizzled jay]

no adding cut to the chase in SL pushes Sin more towards the design of wrath to mop

in which it was a 2 button spec

removing apm and slowing it down even more isn't good for the spec

[normal olive]

Wait you guys are pressing buttons?

[fleet whale]

SnD doesn't speed things up

[grizzled jay]

it gives you decisions to make

[fleet whale]

not really

[grizzled jay]

maybe for 99% of players they won't ever make that decision just like 99% don't pool for TB

but for 1% it adds depth

[fleet whale]

but how is assassination a two button spec

if you still have rupture

garrote, shiv,

[lean marten]

actually its 1 button spec play bonespike

[balmy condor]

I've never pressed anything other than mutilate

[patent topaz]

mutilate uses both hands, ofc it does more damage than other stuff

do you even math???

[normal olive]

Assa will be 2 button spec in SL
MFD -> SnD to stab things fast

Sub to my Onlyfans or even more guides

[vast forum]

assa will be a 3 button spec

press N to open talents

press sub

press change specialisation

[vital haven]

lol

[fleet whale]

"sub gets nerfed"

[vital haven]

back to sin we go

[lean marten]

[hardy sandal]

Activate*

[vast forum]

sorry, i don't know the button name by heart

[fleet whale]

your discord pic shows you using heartstopper appearance for kingslayers though

i guess your gonna use that when pre-patch launches

[vast forum]

i will gladly swap to sub as soon as it's not garbage as it is in bfa 🙂

[grizzled jay]

im prepping for Sin for Nathria

[lusty nacelle]

I'm prepping DK for Nathria

[fleet whale]

yeah, but you'll also be able to use kingslayers

[grizzled jay]

i think it has a better damage profile than sub for that raid

[fleet whale]

as sub in SL

[vast forum]

o yea, i forgot about that

hmm that opens some options

[vital haven]

im prepping not a melee class in nathria

[grizzled jay]

yo i cannot wait for Purple + Green Kingslayers

fel/void xmog

[normal olive]

can you still unlock the 10 rbg skin if you have the mage tower skin?

[grizzled jay]

yes

the only skin that is locked is the base mage tower

you can still get the other appearances if you have the base mage tower appearance

[normal olive]

great

[crimson palm]

im prepping not a melee class in nathria
@vital haven pussy?

[vital haven]

yes

[fleet whale]

remember nighthold

where you actually wanted more melee

and only ranged spots for ranged mechanics

[grizzled jay]

ny'alotha scarred melee players lol

recency bias is strong

[runic kiln]

im prepping not a melee class in nathria
@vital haven warlock master race

sim wanting me to use 480 chest to get 2x clockwork over 490 seems odd as fuck

[tacit vessel]

#assassination

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

[grizzled jay]

clockwork is very good

[marble fjord]

wait assasination has more buttons than garrote?

[balmy condor]

no

[marble fjord]

i just garrote and wait for vanish cd

[balmy condor]

it's all garrote

[harsh perch]

Spam FoK even in ST. THATS IT

[marble fjord]

i cleansed all my IS corruptions because i didnt want my logs to look dirty

[normal olive]

MFD -> SnD

you don't need more

[balmy condor]

will we see a legendary MFD -> SND navi opener in shadowlands

that sounds painful

[normal olive]

yeah you will xD

[marble fjord]

i hope SnD gets tweaked

[harsh perch]

[normal olive]

With more buttons my potential to have strokes during openers is higher

[low girder]

are we talking snd again

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

its #assassination

would we talk about anything else

[low girder]

lots of things

how do i open in aoe

is 35% crit too much

[balmy condor]

its all garrote

[harsh perch]

FoK

[normal olive]

did i hear opener

[marble fjord]

so like 20 seconds before the pull

you switch to outlaw spec

[balmy condor]

the answer to all of lifes questions

is garrote

[marble fjord]

and then do the aoe rotation

[low girder]

do i blood and then tb or tb then blood

[normal olive]

Well for aoe i'd start with MFD into CT

[balmy condor]

shut it navi

[low girder]

when does ct become good

[normal olive]

then posion knive to 1 cp rupture your prio target

[low girder]

aight i'll stop

[normal olive]

Wait what was the throing knive thingy called again

[balmy condor]

not gonna lie, I'm a little excited to see what happens to this chat in shadowlands

[normal olive]

it's not poison knive

[marble fjord]

one point rupture into hemo

[little root]

[marble fjord]

thats the big brain play

[normal olive]

you think like this is new?

wanna see my shad opener?

[balmy condor]

I'll 1cp rupture into @crimson palm

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

you bet

[marble fjord]

kinky

[balmy condor]

[harsh perch]

Wait what? Hemo? I haven’t played assassination in a while so is this the go to talent in that row now?

[balmy condor]

hemo the skill doesn't exist

[balmy condor]

and it was a sub skill before

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor d/w i'll be here in SL to troll so it'll always be fun

[little root]

navi stop

[normal olive]

[little root]

i can only get so hard

[harsh perch]

Back to bear it is then

This is chaos lmao

[balmy condor]

this is what happens when no one is around that needs help

[low girder]

^

[balmy condor]

so we sit here losing our sanity

[low girder]

i tried but i don't actually need help

so no one fell for it

[grizzled jay]

how does one need help with sin

[harsh perch]

I could use advice. Returning rogue here.

[grizzled jay]

its a 3 button spec

[balmy condor]

that sounds like fun nohash

you want to do like a lightning round

or in one go

[harsh perch]

Either?? Lol

I know the spec for the most part but haven’t played since legion

[grizzled jay]

first tip: don't die

[balmy condor]

okay well if you haven't played since legion

#1 thing imo to know about

poison sucks

[grizzled jay]

second tip: reroll Warlock

[balmy condor]

poison bomb sucks

[harsh perch]

Wow

[balmy condor]

your damage atm is bleeds

[harsh perch]

It was awesome as an artifact trait

[grizzled jay]

wdym my damage is all poisons

[strange python]

Are we thinking that exsang build is gonna fall off once haste corrup is gone

[grizzled jay]

Crit build unite

[harsh perch]

Also, haste was bad then. Still true?

[grizzled jay]

exsang will be done yes

[balmy condor]

haste is good now

[grizzled jay]

Alacrity is too good

[strange python]

back to 3x double dose or what

after corruptions go byebye

[balmy condor]

sure

for the 1 month

in prepatch

[harsh perch]

So what should I run exsang and then what instead of poison bomb

[balmy condor]

where it doesn't matter anyway

you still run poison bomb

it just sucks

[strange python]

u didnt have to give me all dat bro 😦

[balmy condor]

:) I still love you

[normal olive]

are you guys having 3 convos at the same time or what

[runic kiln]

formless void really that much better than iris and C&S?

[balmy condor]

its the best

[marble fjord]

dont the azerite traits deactivate in prepatch too

so no 3x double dose

[balmy condor]

no

[grizzled jay]

i don't see exsang ever being used. even if we get to high haste again, alacrity is just that much better.

[balmy condor]

the traits are still there

its just corruptions

[normal olive]

Whispyr factorio when?

[marble fjord]

oh okay, sweet

[balmy condor]

whispyr factorio not today cause work and meetings

[grizzled jay]

whispy lol when

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

whispyr factorio maybe tomorrow

[normal olive]

[little root]

[grizzled jay]

has Koji simmed out if there's a haste breakpoint where Exsang does beat out Alacrity?

or does it just never

[balmy condor]

probably not achievable

[normal olive]

wait alactity is in the same row as exang?

[grizzled jay]

yes

[balmy condor]

yes

[normal olive]

what is the 3rd trait

[low girder]

venom rush

[normal olive]

[grizzled jay]

vr

[balmy condor]

don't give it an acronym

[marble fjord]

the child we dont talk about

[balmy condor]

it doesn't deserve an acronym

[low girder]

we have 1 talent on that row

[marble fjord]

venom rush is like the middle child that goes crazy in 10 years and kills the whole family

[low girder]

unless some weird shit happens

[balmy condor]

yeah

exsang is looking really ded

[marble fjord]

because noone EVER used it

[balmy condor]

and venom rush is still really ded

[low girder]

yeah the nerf made it real bad

rip old venom rush

[hardy sandal]

I used it by mistake for like an hour. Does that count?

[normal olive]

what happend to the poison knive trait they said would come?

[marble fjord]

no youre forgiven, just take 50 lashes to be safe

[crimson palm]

[normal olive]

[low girder]

it died

[balmy condor]

hi hemo :) I promise it's a good ping

[harsh perch]

Ok so, use poison bomb even tho it sucks, it just doesn’t suck as bad as the other two

[balmy condor]

I'm giving you affection

[low girder]

CT is good at high haste

but yeah in prepatch don't

[marble fjord]

alacrity is a nice playstyle though if it does beat hemo

[balmy condor]

CT currently beats pb with enough haste

[marble fjord]

in my humble opinion

[balmy condor]

cause haste increases tick rate

[crimson palm]

I'm beating my meat no ping is good ping atm

[harsh perch]

It’s hard to keep up with everything lol

[balmy condor]

happens

[low girder]

there's a lot of (soft breakpoints??) that happen with corruption

but then it's all going away

so there's a lot going on

[harsh perch]

I can’t wait for corruptions to leave

[balmy condor]

petition to call them bendpoints

[low girder]

sure

[balmy condor]

[normal olive]

No

[balmy condor]

I didn't ask you navi

[low girder]

rip

[normal olive]

:c

[balmy condor]

im kidding I love you and your opinion is valid

I just don't care for it

[normal olive]

[marble fjord]

wtf is a bendpoint

[little root]

[balmy condor]

its me being stupid

but basically there's 2 types of breakpoints

[marble fjord]

okay i thought it was some insane new terminology come up with for simming

xD

[balmy condor]

there's like the shatter-cap breakpoint where any more than that and you're just wasting everything

and then there's a breakpoint where something sort of gets better

[marble fjord]

like hardcaps and soft caps

[balmy condor]

yeah

[marble fjord]

yeah

[normal olive]

no

[balmy condor]

but its a little more than that

[normal olive]

breakpoints and bendpoints

[low girder]

but instead of being a cap it's when another talent takes over

[marble fjord]

so you get a hard bend point and a soft bend point?

[balmy condor]

cause like we say the breakpoint for CT is 60%

but that's not really a breakpoint

[low girder]

but it's not actually 60% either

[balmy condor]

that's more of a 'bendpoint'

[normal olive]

it's a feelypoint

[balmy condor]

yeah

[normal olive]

change my mind

[low girder]

pretty much

[balmy condor]

sure

same sort of concept

it definitely exists, it's just not a breakpoint in the tradition sense of hit X and you'll get Y

[runic kiln]

if you had 3 exp2s on your gear (2 on 475 daggers), with a HM3 and Exp3 in your bags, would you wait for cara to cooperate, or just stick the HM3 on something like boots, going to 5 exp3, 3 exp2, 1 hm3

[low girder]

it's just "around here you should really start simming the options"

[runic kiln]

my heart is telling me to wait for cara

[low girder]

at this point i wouldn't wait, you've got at most a few weeks

[balmy condor]

yeah

there's like 3 weeks till prepatch

[runic kiln]

exp3 is back next week, right? so stick hm3 on boots, hold exp3 in case dagger drops off cara, and if not, just replace an exp2 with a 3?

[normal olive]

isn't everything gone in like 4 weeks ?

[balmy condor]

I would replace a 2 with a 3, put the hm3 on

and then if it drops, just buy another 3

[low girder]

it's all deactivated in prepatch

whenever that is

[fleet whale]

the corruptions will technically still exist in the pre-patch

[runic kiln]

wouldnt be able to buy another 3 till it comes back tho

[fleet whale]

it's just that they'll be greyed out lol

[low girder]

well, yeah, they're on your gear they just don't do anything lol

[fleet whale]

and inactive

[normal olive]

lul

[fleet whale]

also inactive

[low girder]

and heart of darkness becomes useless

[fleet whale]

heart of darkness

dead trait

[balmy condor]

sure, but you said yourself its back next week

[fleet whale]

however

you can still use wrathion's cloak to clear corruption effects

[normal olive]

wait yeah HoD will be dead

[low girder]

no effects to clear

still can't put on my flexweave

[fleet whale]

yeah but there is a secret

[low girder]

D:

[fleet whale]

when you use it

you always get a cloak proc

super secret strat

[low girder]

uh

[runic kiln]

ye but ill be sad as fuck if cara daggers drops and it has to sit in my bags till exp3 is back

[fleet whale]

but it can only work

if you have 34% crit

[low girder]

oh

ok now it makes sense

[normal olive]

oh just like the 3cp strat

[low girder]

let's go

[harsh perch]

Should I swap toxic blade for Exsanguinate?

[balmy condor]

if it sims higher

yeah

[harsh perch]

Ok

[runic kiln]

anyone got a good blind macro for things from beyond?

[normal olive]

/target spooky boi
/throw sand in face

[balmy condor]

I don't know if they can be macro'd tbh

[normal olive]

Should work with a easy /target thing from beyond shouldn't it?

[tropic ocean]

No

[normal olive]

[tropic ocean]

you can't target macro them

[low girder]

lmao, gave up and threw my last severe 3 on noncrit gloves, guess what i got this week

blah, whatever, doesn't matter anyway

[runic kiln]

would you run 59 corruption for a 4k dps upgrade

[balmy condor]

unless its super scary to run 59 in your raid

yeah

[runic kiln]

were low us 100s, but lost a lot of the core and wipe a few times on ra den and nzoth each week

[scarlet sequoia]

[worldly condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jH7MnbWWwyvB9axEXwTnq3

Is galecaller really better than plumage or is just based on the fight mechanics

[grizzled jay]

its better if you can stand in it

[balmy condor]

its better

:)

[worldly condor]

what fights in nya do you guys like using galecallers on?

[balmy condor]

pretty much everything

we're single target boys

[icy ember]

ye its pretty annoying on fights like xanesh/hivemind where they run around at unpredictable times

[balmy condor]

ye xanesh and hive are probably the 2 bad ones

I can hear an argument for cara too

[low girder]

yeah i don't run it on cara

you can, but i don't

[grizzled jay]

nzoth burn

go big dam

[modern schooner]

on paper Finality looks OP but I can see Zoldyck being strong too

[polar vigil]

Does sin still have SnD in the beta?

[balmy condor]

yes

we all do

its baseline rogue

[low girder]

yes, snd is not going anywhere

[modern schooner]

yes

[polar vigil]

Sorry to interrupt

Ok ty

[icy ember]

slice and di 💤

[low girder]

finality is a sub thing

not a sin thing

[modern schooner]

after trying it in the PTR it feels good to have t back, gives you the illusion of faster paced, usually sin is a turtle at the beginning

@low girder ah gotcha

[solar latch]

my dps is bad on vexiona bros

hate to see it

[icy ember]

if they upped it to making poisons proc it would be extremely good on sin

i think its just white damage

[modern schooner]

it doesn't?

[grizzled jay]

wdym shade

[modern schooner]

doesn't your poison applications cause energy regen

[cinder ferry]

Does anyone change essences or anything around specifically for cara or do you just keep to he regular expedient build

[low girder]

no

only with the leggo

[grizzled jay]

no only bleed ticks on poisoned targets

[modern schooner]

what? dang

[low girder]

it does proc more poisons though

[grizzled jay]

big Slaughter dam

[modern schooner]

is it me or does seal fate proc a lot less on sin than sub

[icy ember]

idk, does slice n dice activate poisons?

[low girder]

uh, i prefer running blood personally on cara but both are good

[balmy condor]

seal fate is sin only

[low girder]

do normal build things

stay exp

[modern schooner]

whats the passive that make you randomly get cp as sub?

[balmy condor]

that's a sub only thing

on white hits

idk the name

[low girder]

shadow techniques

or secret

[modern schooner]

oh ok

[low girder]

wait secret is finisher

lmao

[solar latch]

i liked sub rogue in 8.1 legion but switched to sin for raiding

[low girder]

but yes, base kit snd is just dmg

[modern schooner]

the legion arti was sweet especially pre exa nerf

[low girder]

the exsang nerf happened in prepatch

unless they did it twice

[balmy condor]

they did it twice I think

wasn't it like 400 to 200 to 150 to 100

or 300 to 200?

idk

[low girder]

i thought it was 400 to 100 lol

[modern schooner]

I think it was 400 to 100 and then 200

[low girder]

i remember people freaking out

[modern schooner]

400 was busted for sure but then they overdid it IMO

[balmy condor]

well it was busted but for it to be viable, it doesn't need more %

I think if they were to buff it, it would need to be in form of cooldown reduction to lineup with our 2 mins

[grizzled jay]

Blizzard overnerfing Rogues?

[modern schooner]

is slaughter affected by master poisoner?

[balmy condor]

yes

[grizzled jay]

that could surely never happen!

[balmy condor]

slaughter poison is identical to deadly poison

[grizzled jay]

slaughter is affected by MP but you would just go Blindside

i guess MP in PvP might be worth

[modern schooner]

that sounds good, now if they only reverted VR

[grizzled jay]

it'd increase the heal steal

[balmy condor]

yeah

MP in pvp is probably the play

mind numbing and crippling at the same time as well

at least for now

[grizzled jay]

well that's a bug

[balmy condor]

at least for now
@balmy condor

[grizzled jay]

listen bud we typed within frames

[modern schooner]

@grizzled jay is the heal steal relevant in raiding? I read here yesterday that you don't really reduce the healing to the target you just get 15% of it but the target gets his 100%

[grizzled jay]

it'd only be relevant if they release a boss fight like Drest again

[low girder]

there's a particular boss it may be relevant on

[grizzled jay]

where you legit could get a million healing per second

[low girder]

in nathria

[grizzled jay]

Minerva?

[low girder]

weak was testing

[balmy condor]

overall no

[low girder]

i think, idk

[balmy condor]

but niche, yes

maybe

[low girder]

but most of the time, yeah, prolly not

[grizzled jay]

basically if they ever have a boss that heals like Drest it becomes God

because you never die

you might legit be able to solo a fight like that on normal

[low girder]

there might be things later since they went and buffed all the pve applications of mortal wounds

[modern schooner]

MP doesn't affect bleeds right?

[low girder]

but who knows

no

[modern schooner]

ah then yeah it's not as good as I was imagining

[grizzled jay]

Master Poisoner does in fact not affect things not Poisons

[modern schooner]

in my head I thought 30% more to DoTs but yeah the bleeds are separate

[grizzled jay]

MP can still be good on the first tier of an expansion if we don't have super external powers that push something like Elaborate Planning or Blindside

but EP will always outscale it by virtue of natural haste levels going up tier to tier

[modern schooner]

true

[grizzled jay]

and Blindside will always be better i think in pure ST (even without Slaughter), but MP would pull ahead in AoE against Blindside

[balmy condor]

The feels are strong in this craft

[grizzled jay]

🙂

[balmy condor]

Not much else to do I guess

[grizzled jay]

look up more big blue angel mommy artwork

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah youre on to something

there is a crazy assa build, but its a bit secret rn

cant say more

[normal olive]

[grizzled jay]

@scarlet sequoia don't speak too much on it brother, the world is not ready

[normal olive]

I allways tell people about the new hot shit

[balmy condor]

Sin rogue no slice is the new frost mage no IL

[normal olive]

like my IT build

[rigid shore]

On the leggos(Doomblade, running with Serrated Bone Spike from Mal), to use the talent Crimson Tempest even in a Single Target situation or should the talent be switched back to poison bomb?

[balmy condor]

Most likely poison bomb

But those sorts of questions don’t have answers

And won’t have answers until mid November

[rigid shore]

Very true, but I'm not looking for a definitive answer more of a conversation on theory.

[balmy condor]

It probably isn’t worth it

[rigid shore]

I apologize, I should have led with that

Possibly, my thinking is very basic on the matter. As Doomblade/Serrated effects are an additional bleed would increase the overall damage output.

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah you're on to something

certainly

[rigid shore]

On top of that you'd focus mastery

I believe, sorry. Doing research right now hahah so be kind

[balmy condor]

Well the question isn’t as easy as “it buffs the legendary”

We don’t even know if that legendary is worth a damn

[rigid shore]

Fair point

[balmy condor]

You got to make up the single target difference between Pb and ct, and then add on top of that

[rigid shore]

The Soulbinds & Potency Conduits play a large roll

[balmy condor]

Ye

[somber egret]

POE league with the new “rogue” theme. Carry me to prepatch GGG 🙌

[devout fiber]

So do i got exsang now xD

[balmy condor]

if it sims higher

[devout fiber]

Aight let's see one sec

[grizzled jay]

make sure you don't have a Twist the Knife trait

because that disables exsang on sims

[balmy condor]

what

ttk disables CT

[devout fiber]

Oh

[grizzled jay]

you right ct

w/e it was

[devout fiber]

TTK?

oh

[balmy condor]

twist the knife

[devout fiber]

I have ttk on my azerite pieces

damn

what do now

[grizzled jay]

but you wouldnt use CT anyways

you are at low haste

but in Top Gear just select all 8 azerite traits to find which combination is best for you

[devout fiber]

which talents for exsang?

[low girder]

what's your haste at

[balmy condor]

guide up top

[low girder]

also that

[balmy condor]

you can read that

[devout fiber]

only 23% xD

[balmy condor]

yeah that's not enough lmao

[devout fiber]

I don't have expedient at all

[balmy condor]

especially if you don't have SS traits

[devout fiber]

only 1 tbh

[low girder]

yeah just go TB build

[grizzled jay]

corruption going away in like 3 weeks probably so id just focus on whatever you can buy lol

[devout fiber]

I'm going full gushing

tmr

[grizzled jay]

gushing is up rn, go get full gushing wounds

its good in pvp too

[devout fiber]

I have 4/5 tickets

someone is gna do 5 masks with me tmr

[gentle flicker]

As assassination, I have two Shards of the Black Empire, do I keep the tendies or get something else on them?

[balmy condor]

expeds usually

but at this point

fuck it

[gentle flicker]

That's what I was thinking. Only a month left for corruption

[grizzled jay]

id keep tendies and go full tendies build

and try to meme high parses

[runic kiln]

weekly cara daggers dont exist.

9 weeks with 3 rogues rolling

[shadow wedge]

[polar vigil]

how do u guys track multidotting on sin

do u use some wa to keep track of all targets

or just go by feel

i heard sin is ez but i have trouble tracking dots in aoe

[iron valve]

unitframes with dot indicators

[polar vigil]

is there a unitframe that flashes or something when u need to reapply?

what unitframe u use

[balmy condor]

nameplates

is how most people do it

[iron valve]

oh yeah I meant nameplates

[balmy condor]

the flash you would need to setup

[iron valve]

I think even the default blizz nameplates have debuff indicators now

[balmy condor]

kui does it

plater can do it

really use whatever you want

[polar vigil]

ok ty vm

[fallow otter]

Plater and yes you can set this up

[solar latch]

hmm wont slice and dice be good since 1/3 of melee dps damage right now is auto attacks

[low girder]

it's good for dmg

[balmy condor]

yes

but its boring

[low girder]

it just doesn't do anything else

[balmy condor]

that's the complaint

[fallow otter]

Booooraaannngg

And I can't get away from it

[balmy condor]

just play a different class

4head

[low girder]

play a feral

[fallow otter]

I already selected affliction in welcome page on discord

The more I play m+on beta the more I wanna play ranged

So much cuckage

[twin matrix]

Anyone have any guidance on how to play the rotation most effectively on beta

And/or most effective talents

As they are now (understand there will be tuning, just trying not to be dogshit in groups and stuff on beta)

[balmy condor]

play like now

the only thing that's changed is you have less haste

if you're playing blindside, use the proc as soon as possible without overcapping

[quasi hill]

Morning - just a brief question, I play crit/versa build and I am not sure about poison bomb.
Shall I switch flat to crimson tempest in fortified weeks ?

[balmy condor]

you should play crimson tempest in most everything

even a lot of keys on tyrannical tbh

[quasi hill]

Oh okay

Even in 15-20 range ?

[balmy condor]

if you're running TTK on a workshop for example

thats a PB

yes, even in that range

CT is just miles stronger than PB

[quasi hill]

Okay poison bomb for raid then?!

'pure singletarget'

[balmy condor]

yes

with a crit build

[quasi hill]

Nice thank you

[balmy condor]

if you're doing a haste build in raids, CT obviously wins eventually

[neat totem]

Im new to wow trying to hit 120 before the end of the month with the XP bonuses any suggestions?

currently 31 running Rogue assassination Dps specs

[balmy condor]

don't level as sin

level as sub or outlaw

spam dungeons, quest in between

[quasi hill]

@balmy condor EP always preferred over master poisoner or just a sim thing

[neat totem]

I here outlaw is good for most things and sub is going to be good in shadowlands

[wicked harness]

And sub is so much fun

[balmy condor]

@quasi hill always EP

MP only in pvp right now

[quasi hill]

Kk

[balmy condor]

the problem with sin leveling is that its dot based

and super slow

[neat totem]

I learned single target was going to be an annoyance when It was hard to kill old murk eye and the tidehunters

[balmy condor]

so you're just kinda sluggin through it

[neat totem]

murrrlocs go brrr tbr

[topaz haven]

@neat totem outlaw gets interesting for levelling post 60 just fyi

Before that it's kinda slow as well

[neat totem]

good point

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor Sin is better leveling than Outlaw in SL at least. Nerfed Crimson Vial makes Outlaw feel so rough. But Sub is the best with MfD

[balmy condor]

dot leveling still blows

can't change my mind

[neat totem]

I just stab people and see my level go up

Haven’t analyzed all those details yet

[topaz haven]

Haha

Well you can get varying enjoyment from the ways you stab

[neat totem]

I do so enjoy a variety of ways to stab

[potent raft]

spamming dungeons as Sin with subterfuge is huge

for outdoor - i wouldnt pick it, but for dungeons i think it's great

[warm olive]

will ambush be what is used instead of mutilate whenever possible or where is its place?

[balmy condor]

not sure what the difference is

but you would use it in place of mutilate

as long as you're not overcapping

[neat totem]

Sub seems to gain better combo points for me atleast

[balmy condor]

that's just cause sin is slower

[neat totem]

Yeah

I need sleep

Gn

[balmy condor]

night night :)

[neat totem]

Enjoy this image for now

[warm olive]

thx

[topaz haven]

Gn

[somber egret]

Vendetta coming off that GCD today

[fallow estuary]

Heed my call vs Blood Siphon M+

2 severe 7 striketrough build

[visual juniper]

what azerite traits/essense would be recommended for PvP my friends

[tropic ocean]

hmc

[pseudo hamlet]

How good is the cannonball trinket for M+? Got 475ilvl version of it (has also 475 dead-spy, 465 harlan, 475 vita ra-den haste trinket and 460ilvl torment in jar)

[tropic ocean]

its shit

it only deals damage if tank is not moving mobs

which, well, rarely happens

[pseudo hamlet]

Oki doki, thanks! Will go dead-spy + harlan for fort and dead-spy + vita for tyra then 🙂

[steel ridge]

wow, RNGesus blessed me today

[harsh perch]

Oh?

[steel ridge]

i was missing one piece of gear that was not socketet

[ocean inlet]

Grats

[steel ridge]

chest gave me 475 gloves with 158 haste, 93 mastery AND A SOCKET

[harsh perch]

Wow

Congrats buddy

[steel ridge]

i was hoping for drest gloves, but those are fucking godlike

[harsh perch]

Yeah that’s awesome. I’m jelly

I’m surprised I don’t get int gear in my chest with how unlucky I am lmao

[steel ridge]

they even had strikethrough rank1... but instantly put on exp3

but now the azerite vendor shat on me

[harsh perch]

Quick question. Is outlaw better than assassination in terms of aoe damage?

[steel ridge]

yes and no

[shrewd night]

Easier to gear, but optimally they are both about equal

[harsh perch]

Ok. All I need is a few more item levels and I was gonna start doing the Dino farm, I didn’t know if just running in and spamming FoK was good enough. Should be I guess as long as I don’t die

[shrewd night]

Dino farm?

[harsh perch]

Yeah. In ad

I guess once I get enough echoes to buy focusing iris rank 3 it won’t matter much lol

[steel ridge]

why do you want to farm that? are you bored?

[normal olive]

Stonks

[harsh perch]

I need to try to bust out a lil bit more gold for that longboi

When does that mount go away? Prepatch?

[normal olive]

yes

[harsh perch]

Oof. I better hurry

[normal olive]

got about 4 weeks

[harsh perch]

Probably about 3-4 weeks away

At least I’m pretty good at turning on music and I can farm for hours. I farmed drowned mana for 8 Hours straight in legion for that stupid fish

[steel ridge]

farming can be really meditating

[harsh perch]

I enjoy it sometimes.

[shrewd night]

Until you run out of them

[harsh perch]

I need about 8k bones and shimmer scale and I’ll be set

Lol

[past ermine]

I haven't been playing rogue long so this might be a dumb question, but do my attacks have a chance to just fail? I've found every now and again I try to mutilate or envenom or something and the energy is drained, but I don't gain/lose combo points or do damage from the ability

[lament dove]

can be dodge or parry if you attack from front

*not from behind

or I dunno how it is exactly

[past ermine]

Oh, alright. That makes sense. I have noticed this more often doing solo content than anything else.

[lament dove]

strangely I rarely notice it, I almost never see it during questing/soloing... but it can happen, I remember seeing it with Toxic Blade and I was like wtf, because it's so rare

[zinc zealot]

does exang snapshot haste for garrote and rupture?

[normal olive]

yes

[past ermine]

my hit rating might not be high enough

[topaz haven]

Hit rating is not a thing at this stage of the game, or at least not a stat you can opt into

[past ermine]

sorry, that was just a joke

[topaz haven]

Oh, sorry 😪 I thought you might've not played for a really long time

[lament dove]

yeah there is no hit rating anymore, but bosses (not sure about normal mobs) still have a few % dodge and parry - not sure where the correct info can be found on this

[past ermine]

Does the Venomous Wounds passive not affected by Crimson Tempest bleeds?

[lament dove]

no, only the ones the description mentions

[past ermine]

Oh

I don't know how I missed that part

I just saw bleed

[lament dove]

if you choose Internal Bleeding talent you can see that the description changes:)

[past ermine]

I guess that would be kind of nutty in aoe for energy regen

[topaz haven]

Mhm

[strange python]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shadowlands-update-some-spells-no-longer-on-gcd/630189

Vendetta off the GCD yayyy

[spice spire]

Love to see it

[exotic rose]

yayy

thats so good

[hallow coyote]

All Rogue CDs moving to oGCD rules so much

Shadowlands Legion tier expac now

[grizzled jay]

oh Vendetta went off

interesting

guess now you can macro it with your on-use trinket

[fallow otter]

Ill add it to my cast sequence macro for Max dps spam the letter D

[grizzled jay]

macro it into garrote

[fallow otter]

Garrote is on my stealth vanish cast sequence macro

True alpha dominance

[grave trail]

oh Vendetta went off
@grizzled jay > guess now you can macro it with your on-use trinket
@grizzled jay you still can on live.

[grizzled jay]

then you lose a tick of garrote and rupture

dps loss to do that

[icy ember]

so we can literally combine vendetta/garrote into 1 button?

[grave trail]

Point is you could always macro it, only now is not a dps loss

[grizzled jay]

Well you wouldn't actually combine Garrote/Vendetta into one button cause you might hold Vendetta in a fight or not want to pop vendetta immediately off CD. You would combine Vendetta with any on-use trinkets though.

[grave trail]

Just like on live g > r > g > macro > mut > r > exang

[grizzled jay]

well you would vendetta on the first garrote now in SL

[thorny rampart]

how much haste is "very high levels of haste"?

[grave trail]

That's besides the point, point is everyone has been macroing vend with plumage already, but of course is a beneficial change

[sterile valve]

Great change by blizzard

[grizzled jay]

@thorny rampart Do you mean in a post-Corruption world?

[thorny rampart]

yes

enough to drop poison bomb

[grizzled jay]

oh we'd probably never attain that

Over 35% is what I think would be 'very high levels' of haste. but you'd need probably over 50% to drop PB for CT in ST.

[thorny rampart]

i meant on the exsanguinate build

oh really

[grizzled jay]

exsang is dead with Alacrity on its row

[thorny rampart]

aight ty

[grave trail]

@thorny rampart sim is only way bro, for me CT was enabled at 63% iirc currently at 85 unbuffed

[sand otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a22GYC981jbBpzjiJ5Vy9Z
well i simmed for about an hour and this is what i got for my AoE gear

[strange python]

Use BotE instead of iris

Breath of the dying > Condensed

Formless is not very good in dungeons use iris minor

NEVER use hidden blades Use CT instead

I would use vigor you dont have much haste and I wouldnt use EB unless you have 3

and last but not least, you are playing assa for dungeons

@sand otter stats are a big part of rogue rn I would try getting them up a little

especially since expedient is coming out on friday

[sand otter]

okies thank you

i could have outlaw as a backup spec, Thats on the table too.

[strange python]

just get slapeprs

also if you have vita use that over humming

[sand otter]

just tough to change from M+ to raid lol

[strange python]

My assa cleave is only 120k rn and hes super geared but my outlaw that isnt even that geared has 10k more

yeah

[sand otter]

o dang

maybe i should just outlaw,

[strange python]

def

[sand otter]

ugh i tried that, im so bad at the rotation haha

[strange python]

lol

[sand otter]

someday ill get better as assassination. im hoping shadowlands i can work ahrd and get gud

[void pecan]

The rotation.

Roll until good roll.

use pistol procs

use big gun on cd

[sand otter]

flurry on more than 2 adds

after this BG ill re sim for outlaw on my second set of gear

[void pecan]

I'd rather EB Crit and fan than roll roll roll

[sand otter]

i just thought getting garrote on 3 or 4 targets, and fanning, then rupture 3 or 4 and thats how it worked

[balmy condor]

Not quite

[sand otter]

xD

headed to the reforger now to change up for outlaw

[leaden spruce]

vendetta no longer on GCD in shadowlands

[sand otter]

excited

[leaden spruce]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317767/blizzard-removes-burst-cooldown-spells-from-gcd-in-shadowlands

[sand otter]

i will have to cleanse some corruption i think lol

my outlaw fist weapon is corrupted and it brings me a little too high

is infinite stars THAT good

that would get rid of almost all my corruption lmao

[urban gale]

if anyone has a sec, does it look like theres anything i can eek out here easily? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ave2YGdsaX6HdhPPr7kTBW

overclocking bit band i know

gorak tuls

[void pecan]

dreams is probably lower than conflict at your haste %

sockets

higher ilevel weapons

Oh you don't have CLF or r3 conflict.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c5aYR6D3ZZGpFVZEVtBs3e

you were adding 3 expedients, so I just ran it again.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tame stump]

Anyone have a good video or two of mythic n'zoth from a sin rogue perspective?

ideally looking to see something with first psychus group

[void pecan]

Just stick on the boss

:>

Also progressing nzoth, first psychus

[quasi hill]

Playing first time with crimson tempest, when do I reapply, constantly or just if it is about to fall off

[tame stump]

When it's about to fall off, @quasi hill

[quasi hill]

Keep pumping evis on main target mean while

[tame stump]

yup

[quasi hill]

Ty bro

[strange python]

just keep all bleeds up

[tame stump]

most important thing is keeping up all 3 (garrote, rupt, and ct)

[strange python]

^

[quasi hill]

Keep keep bleeding 😜

[tame stump]

your envenom will be below all those on your dmg

[strange python]

If ct runs out for like a sec ur fine

just keep 95%+ uptimes on all

[quasi hill]

Well, any point to stop applying ruptures at any target cap ?

I mean at a pull with 10 mobs, rupture as much as I can over envenom ?

[strange python]

eh

not really

rup 2

vanish

[tame stump]

i like to keep it on 2 or 3 things

[strange python]

apply garrote to 3 more

rupture 2 more

CT

[red plaza]

3 was the magical number before expedient stacking

[strange python]

BOTE

[quasi hill]

Yeah that garrote is clear

[red plaza]

But with a lot of haste, 2 is enough

[quasi hill]

Okay

[strange python]

yeah

especially with exsan

[void pecan]

Don't remember the number but some 10+ you bleed up 3, ct then spam fan

[tame stump]

mobs die too fast to justify putting rupture on everything

[strange python]

^

ezpz 300k+

[tame stump]

waste of combo points

[quasi hill]

Lawl

[strange python]

^

[quasi hill]

Okay

Will try today

Feeling like an idiot to be playing poison bomb until today

[strange python]

well

[tame stump]

dont

[void pecan]

PB is fine on tyran

[tame stump]

haste build is relatively new

[strange python]

poison is good if you arent running bleed

and that

[quasi hill]

Playing crit/versa

[tame stump]

and requires a LOT of haste to be worth it effective

[strange python]

o

[void pecan]

if you're talking haste + bleed build

PB isn't good

[strange python]

wait

[tame stump]

yeah the haste + exsang/ct

[strange python]

Eradi you arent palying haste build

[tame stump]

oh

my bad

i assumed you were when you asked about ct

[strange python]

Eradi is typing...

[quasi hill]

Stsrted 2 weeks ago to play rogue. Lemme say I got 2 items with crit/versa

[strange python]

ok

thats changes it up a little

what az traits are you running

[quasi hill]

Thought crit/versa is the way to go for m+ stuff

[strange python]

not really

[steel ridge]

It is

[strange python]

eh

[tame stump]

if you have 3x shroud and 3x echoing blades yeah

[strange python]

^

[quasi hill]

Mom I generate a sim With gear

[void pecan]

It depends on a number of things

honestly.

[strange python]

Just play outlaw

[tame stump]

but you need like 65% crit + strikethroughs before your damage gets close to what you can do as outlaw

[void pecan]

👉 🚪

[strange python]

?

[void pecan]

huskuu

[strange python]

really

I mean

[tame stump]

LOL

[strange python]

my assa burst on mobs in dungeons is like 300k-400k

4-5 target

my outlaw is only around 200-300k

but my outlaw stays more consistent

Wait

im reatard

I read message wrong

[void pecan]

[lapis spindle]

Hi guys, how is your feeling about the Assa rouge in SL overall ? And maybe others specs

And what covenant you think you will pick up ?

[strange python]

Having beta

[tame stump]

ASSA > ALL

(except rn sub looking pretty op)

Necrolord all the way

[void pecan]

playing beta even

[lapis spindle]

Yeah, sub seems pretty good in pvp

[quasi hill]

Outlaw is just rolling shit and not playing the game

[tame stump]

i hate outlaw

[quasi hill]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/blackhand/Tigna

[tame stump]

so unfun

[quasi hill]

That's my gear

Focus should be m+, so should I go nuts on haste or keep the crit/versa stuff

[sand otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gPcZFbBZx2feThV3bBU6bP

[void pecan]

At this point, it doesn't really matter.

[sand otter]

this doesn't seem right =/

[tame stump]

if you wanna push higher keys, i'd recommend crit versa

[lapis spindle]

Tbh Assa seems better than Outlaw in SL on both raids and MM +

[void pecan]

Do you have echoes for haste on tuesday?

is your cape maxed?

[strange python]

imo outlaw is more fun aoe than assa

[lapis spindle]

Rn I am on Crit/Strikethrough and it's pretty good, but shit survival too

[tame stump]

their cape is only r10

[sand otter]

Mine is 15

[void pecan]

If you have no cape resist/corruption

[strange python]

Get BotE asap

[lapis spindle]

I think versa is relevant for very high keys like 24-28

[void pecan]

then at this point it's kinda mute.

[lapis spindle]

No point under

[quasi hill]

Will get cape to 12 today. 10k echoes or smth

[strange python]

get mythic Gibber

for assa

[quasi hill]

Don't think I will get fully corrupted before prepatch

[strange python]

for outlaw irontide is BiS I think?

[lapis spindle]

You just need versa crit gear then striketrought corruption

[strange python]

I dont remember

[void pecan]

I wouldn't worry too much about best gear or min/maxing if you don't have max cape corruption at this point.

[strange python]

tru

[void pecan]

Unless you get super lucky with corrupted pieces

[quasi hill]

Okay

So chill and get some haste items if I can ? Or stay the crit/versa stuff

[tame stump]

crit versa at this point

[void pecan]

if you don't have echo blade traits

[quasi hill]

Got only one this far

[tame stump]

you probably won't be able to farm enough expedient 3s to make the haste + exsang/ct build effective

[void pecan]

and/or shrouded

[strange python]

If you arent pushing CE

dont do anything

prepatch is right around the corner

[quasi hill]

Ye

[tame stump]

time to learn sub

[quasi hill]

Got 3 shrouded

[strange python]

Last I saw

sub was looking pog

in sl