assassination

[shy dust]

Since when is there a 20 sec on mechagon rings

[balmy condor]

since always?

like you get the haste proc right

and you have it

but you can't proc it again cause there's that thingy

what is that called

hold on

oh its 15

u rite you rite

you get the haste buff for 15 seconds, and there's a 15 second cd, then it procs agin

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[arctic bramble]

So with the bleed crit% say, when i apply crit and have 50% crit chance at the time, the bleed ticks will have that 50% crit through it's duration regardless of what crit % i have after i apply it right ?

[balmy condor]

no

crit updates dynamically

[arctic bramble]

hmm

i see lots of top tier rouge running plumage instead of coral

[shy dust]

@balmy condor no

[arctic bramble]

is vers > crit ?

for burst window ***

[balmy condor]

no

plumage is just strong

[shy dust]

Mechagon ring works like

It procs and instantly goes on cd

It doesn’t wait till buff ends

Otherwise it would have terrible uptime

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's what I meant

but I'm stupid

[shy dust]

Your wording

[arctic bramble]

so if i have i455 coral vs 465 plum, which should i use ?

[shy dust]

[balmy condor]

me have best wurds

@arctic bramble you should sim

[arctic bramble]

ok thx

so just double check, the crit updates dynamically ?

[balmy condor]

yes

[arctic bramble]

awesome thix

thx*

[balmy condor]

exsang only snapshots haste

[arctic bramble]

oh, i havent tried exen build

im using toxic blade atm

[balmy condor]

then its all mute

XD

[arctic bramble]

so atm my opener looks like apply bleeds from stealth> get 4 cp > coral > vanish > garrota > vendetta > bote > toxic blade > kidneyshot > multi til 5 CP > envenom

[balmy condor]

are you playing subt?

[arctic bramble]

yea

no

as in assassination with subter talented

[balmy condor]

yes, do you have subterfuge or master assassin talented

[arctic bramble]

subterfuge

[balmy condor]

okay and do you have any SS traits

[arctic bramble]

nup

[balmy condor]

you'll want to gar mut rup out of stealth

the wowhead/icyveins/ravenholdt guide up top has openers for tb subt builds

I would look at those

[arctic bramble]

awesome thx

[solar pendant]

everyone still running outlaw for m+

?

[lost horizon]

mostly, sin is fine though

[balmy condor]

no because outlaw is annoying :)

[solar pendant]

i just get annoyed when im boss damage is low

as outlaw

[lost horizon]

sin isn't exactly ST slammer in usual M+ set up either

[balmy condor]

gouge is strong

there was some heated discussion in here earlier about it

sin is fine

[solar pendant]

true

[balmy condor]

but you have to have azerite swaps

[solar pendant]

just feel like my sin gear is better at this point

besides hoping for td procs

in outlaw

[lost horizon]

ah there's why

[solar pendant]

i dont have the corruptions setup for outlaw

[balmy condor]

relying on rng corruptions is never fun

[lost horizon]

strike/sev is much better ST

[balmy condor]

yeah that too

[solar pendant]

yeah for sure

[lost horizon]

once you get it set up

[solar pendant]

i got 2 sev and 1 strikethrough

only

[lost horizon]

yeah that'll be rough on ST

[solar pendant]

i do have mythic weapons

but its kinda bleh

on aoe with crimson temp do you only refresh on the dot

[lost horizon]

2x mythic lash? that's solid dude

[solar pendant]

or

[lost horizon]

go get that strike

[balmy condor]

you maintain unless 7+

[solar pendant]

1 mythic lash and the mace off shad

[balmy condor]

then you replace enven with CT

[solar pendant]

got it

[willow mulch]

so how much corruption is intolerable? currently at 72 with: infinite stars 2, infinite stars 3 and expedient 3 (only the 1 expedient 3 so far)

[balmy condor]

Under 60 is okay

Usually for prog under 40

Over 60 gets a little scary unless you’re parsing

Over 80 is insane

[willow mulch]

kk. dont want to remove my expedient piece but might have to until i have the ability to stack it

gotta run some sims

[drifting cloud]

exp3 next week

get rid of IS

[balmy condor]

^

IS straight into the dumpster

[minor spade]

how much is exped3?

echoes wise?

[patent topaz]

5000

[minor spade]

sweet, only gotta grind 11.8k more echoes by next friday night to buy 3 more exped3

[balmy condor]

Exped vendor is next reset my dude

[minor spade]

thats why i edited for next friday 😄

[balmy condor]

Yeah but that’s why I’m telling you

It’s not friday

[minor spade]

it comes up on tues ik

it leaves friday 7pm pst

[balmy condor]

Oh you mean that way

Okay

[minor spade]

yeye

[balmy condor]

Pushing it out to the bitter end

[minor spade]

ye

[balmy condor]

[minor spade]

basically 7 1/2 days for 12k echoes. it's doable

[balmy condor]

Yeah just grind 2v2 arenas with double dps

[minor spade]

or a bunch of 15+ keys

[balmy condor]

Too slow :-(

[drifting cloud]

are you on 0 cv?

[minor spade]

tru, but better gear options from M+ than arenas

im 1.6k cr atm

[balmy condor]

Yeah I guess so

Farm for plumage and mecha rings in the process

[versed mica]

With expedient stacking being a thing, does that make any of the mechagon haste cards any good?

[shy dust]

Vita exists still

And on use trinket is usually used alongside exsang build

[balmy condor]

Yeh there’s just better options

Galecallers for example is haste card but better

[versed mica]

as long as you don't have to move lmao

[shrewd night]

Consequences of moving are heavily reduced the moment you get exsang off

[balmy condor]

Exsang snapshotting haste is a huge part of it

But you’re able to stand in it for a surprising amount of bosses

[shrewd night]

Circle is bigger than ya think!

[patent topaz]

people like to complain just for the sake of complaining

[balmy condor]

It’s human nature

[warm parcel]

[fathom swift]

Some days i like galecallers cause its fun to try optimize how you use it each fight and figure out timings

Some days i hate it cause its so fuckin fiddly and i cbf dealing with it

[balmy condor]

It’s not that bad :P

[warm parcel]

Well i even cba exsang

Am that big a boomer

[raven locust]

cba?

[balmy condor]

Can’t be asked

[raven locust]

Well i even cant be asked

[balmy condor]

Well you even can’t be asked what

[fathom swift]

Its not that bad usually its just some fights when timings change week to week depending on how many buyers you have

[raven locust]

Where he put it made it feel like I had a stroke

I just typed out what he typed

[fathom swift]

Or how much people actually hold dps on cara etc.

[balmy condor]

I mean

[warm parcel]

Cba = couldnt be arsed?

[balmy condor]

Or that

[raven locust]

Do you play TB then?

[warm parcel]

Ye

[balmy condor]

I mean same thing

[raven locust]

What do you dislike about Exsanguinate?

I find it more enjoyable imo

[balmy condor]

TB matches his discord name

[warm parcel]

I just dont care for the zoomer style

[balmy condor]

Green on red feels too christmas

[warm parcel]

That too

[raven locust]

Exsanguintates apm too high

[warm parcel]

And not like its that bad

Or that I care bout parses

[raven locust]

400k openers feel pretty damn good though

Even if its for a few seconds

[warm parcel]

I aint that far from ex openers

Honestly

[raven locust]

Are you not going to pick Exsanguinate out of spite since TB is baseline in Shadowlands?

[warm parcel]

Maybe 20% max

No

I just dont care

Literally

Just like a lot dont play gale and clf

Tho they beat plum bote

[crimson palm]

clf doesnt beat bote

on the fight lenghts we've bote pulls ahead

[raven locust]

Gotta feel special and unique

[warm parcel]

X to doubt

[mortal oriole]

Hey boys, i've got 2x 480 azerite bits with echoing blades for M+ but it seems to sim far lower on the Dungeon slice for raidbots is there something im missing for this?

[balmy condor]

Dslice like exped

And exsang

Cause it’s small target cleave

[crimson palm]

u can sim it yourself disable fight time variance on 3 min

[raven locust]

Mariks can you link the raidbots

[warm parcel]

And it beat bote even on 3 for me

But now bosses die in 1:50

So even 3 min sims too long

[balmy condor]

The EB will catch up when you have bigger aoe

[crimson palm]

for under 2 mins koji still needs to test 😄

if standard clf beats vop minor + bote

with the vanish hold

[raven locust]

bote and clf are within 150 dps for me

[mortal oriole]

I'll link the sim once this is done processing

[warm parcel]

Thing about bote and clf

They have different "optimal end setups"

So you cant just sim that gear for both

And call it a day

Same for plum gale

[balmy condor]

My 475 gale disagrees

[raven locust]

Going to miss having so much haste going into Shadowlands 😦

[balmy condor]

You’ll have all that haste going into shadowlands

You’ll just lose it after you level

:)

[raven locust]

You know exactly what I mean

smile

[balmy condor]

I’m actually quite interested

[mortal oriole]

@raven locust https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nimpo7aPSxqkGCsDr2wPpW

[balmy condor]

In how corruptions will scale into early shadowlands

[raven locust]

inb4 disabled at lvl 51

[balmy condor]

Like maybe you keep an exped or something in a low value slot like bracers

Yeah that’s the blizzard way

Disabled once you turn in last quest

Not usable in dungeons

[raven locust]

That makes sense Mariks, you lose Shrouded for EB which is more important

[balmy condor]

Ye

[raven locust]

If you're going to use EB it needs to be a piece with SS

[balmy condor]

3x SS is required

Not using 3x SS in dungeons is a huge loss

[mortal oriole]

Yeah i have Pistoleer's Spaulders they have SS an EB but it still goes with a different trait over EB

[raven locust]

I don't see Pistoleer's in that sim, did you sim it separately?

[mortal oriole]

They're what im wearing now with the meticulous scheming trait

[raven locust]

You won't see a huge increase with EB anyway unless it's a dungeon with large packs, could be your crit is also a little low for most M+ builds

[balmy condor]

EB wants crit/Vers on a lot of it

Dslice is smaller packs so you won’t see the eb damage skyrocket

[mortal oriole]

Yeah im sitting on 32% crit baseline

[raven locust]

Do you have any extra Severe and Strikethrough pieces with good stats?

Otherwise you can just run your current setup and be just fine, plop on EB if it's a dungeon with large packs

I wouldn't stress it too much

[mortal oriole]

I don't but good advice i'll stick to what i've got now i've managed to finish on 100k dps with a good tank at the end of runs

[raven locust]

EB sims lower for me too with decent crit, I'll still use it for fort weeks or big packs etc.

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s more than fine

100k is solid

[raven locust]

^

[umbral rapids]

ur solid

[balmy condor]

Still waiting on dinner symfony you spoil me

[umbral rapids]

[balmy condor]

;)

[mortal oriole]

Thanks for the advice boys 👍

[balmy condor]

[raven locust]

❤️

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[tropic ocean]

sooooooo

@fleet anchor im very torn

played 23 ur and 24 fh with raidbuild

dps-wise

around 100kish, blasting bosses and prio targets but im very unsure if it makes up

losing 30k or more overall

feels somewhat like a support build for mage

😄

[shrewd night]

Isnt everyone at this point?

[sonic root]

What covenant do you guys believe are the strongest for subtlety ?

[mighty elm]

#subtlety

[sonic root]

Sorry meant assa

[silent crescent]

They havent tuned anything? Kinda hard to really say otherwise lol

[somber fractal]

things are gonna change but right now bone spike is the best all around ability. Night fae isnt bad though and has way better soulbinds. and of course venthyr teleport is busted but slaughter is useless in pve

tldr: its a shit show and we don't know

[sonic root]

Can’t wait 😂

[modern heart]

boys I dont understand why plumage is better than galecaller can someone enlight me

[somber fractal]

because it's golden

[modern heart]

its a 1k dps loss for me 😦

[arctic walrus]

in terms of raw output, it's not yes

but any fight that requires heavy movement gale can lose all of its value

or even just movement during its duration

[modern heart]

i havent found a fight yet where i'm not able to stand in for the full duration

[arctic walrus]

then just run gale

[patent topaz]

it snapshots haste with exsang so it will not be that bad even if you have to move

[steel ridge]

Plumage syncs perfectly with vendetta

while galecaller does only half, at best

Ease of use

[arctic walrus]

you can line up gale just as easily

you just get 1 extra use out of it between cds

[steel ridge]

10 sec vs 20 sec....

[arctic walrus]

your dmg is coming from 10s of exsanged garrote but yeah sure

[steel ridge]

Ease of use

does Galecaller use a GCD? I remember it does, but could be wrong

[tropic ocean]

@shrewd night yeah probably need to change mentality a lot to acknowledge that not every gain is visible in details but then again is it really worth im not sure

[shrewd night]

tbh, lowkey would absolutely love to play a pure support class if it was ever introduced

[hasty crystal]

hey, how important is the transition from 465 wep to 475 or 470, for the exsanguinate build

[balmy condor]

@steel ridge it does not use a GCD

[arctic walrus]

as big to any other build

[kind edge]

Guys what corruption setups are you using for m+?

numerous strikethrough?

[balmy condor]

Severe and strikethrough mixture

[kind edge]

TD is not that good anymore huh?

[steep ridge]

its just rnadom

[balmy condor]

TD is still good

It’s just giga aoe and rng

[steep ridge]

and in bolstering/skittish weeks its hell

[balmy condor]

And we don’t really care

[hasty crystal]

@arctic walrus ok, i was asking as a whole actually because this is the first time i'm playing a melee class, not really build specifically

[woven summit]

Alright, will wait for severe and strikethrough to come on vendor rotation, will gather echo till then

I need to do that as well

[balmy condor]

470 vs 475 is a couple hundred dps

[kind edge]

Yeah same

[floral shoal]

On covenants, will we even need the teleport when we have stealth and shadowstep. I can see other classes require it for m+ not us though.

[kind edge]

What trinkets are you using for m+ by the way? I have Torment in a Jar and Dead Eye

[balmy condor]

Spyglass in basically every key

The other slot is vita most of the time

[thin cargo]

Venthyr teleport is just too op. Not choosing it is just memeing

[kind edge]

But how viable is the haste in vita?

For mythic +

[balmy condor]

Very

[kind edge]

Because you lack haste in general?

[balmy condor]

It buffs your group too

Like haste isn’t bad in keys

[verbal sparrow]

Which trinkets are good for m+ for like aoe + single too ?

[balmy condor]

Lot of people shit on haste cause omegapog crit vers EB go brrrrr

[kind edge]

haha yeah

[balmy condor]

But there’s nothing wrong with haste, and actually probably better single target and low target cleave

And vita is just a strong trinket

So

[kind edge]

You think torment in a jar adds to good aoe dps?

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean it’s fine I guess

[kind edge]

I got vita though, can use it

[balmy condor]

But it’s garbo single target

[shrewd night]

Different dungeons, different builds. Crit will be better in ML. Haste will be better in KR.

[verbal sparrow]

Yea I just dropped jar and I'm wondering if it's worth it switching something

[shrewd night]

etcetc

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah obviously

But vita in general is still good

[kind edge]

Cool, will combine Spyglass with Vita in general then

[balmy condor]

You could switch it out for torment in giga aoe

[kind edge]

I just need better corruptions

[balmy condor]

Probably work out fine

[kind edge]

How good is Deadly Momentum in m+ as a corruption?

It delivers critical strike

[balmy condor]

It’s basically a broke bitch’s severe

[kind edge]

hahah

[balmy condor]

It’s fine, but given the option, you wouldn’t use it

[kind edge]

so it's actually severe for the poor?

[shrewd night]

Its a severe that costs 15 corruptions more

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[tulip nacelle]

It's better if you don't hhave crit gear but you don't want to do that

[kind edge]

I'll just wait for next reset then and buy Strikethrough rank 2

[balmy condor]

Crit gear is the way to go in m+ meffer

We aren’t talking raid

[kind edge]

And will buy a Severe as well July 21st rank 2

[balmy condor]

If you wait another week, strikethrough 3 comes around I think

Don’t buy rank 2’s

Unless you omega need

[kind edge]

Strikethrough 3 is July 24

[balmy condor]

Ye

[kind edge]

My corruptions really suck, I have TD rank 3, critical strike from all sources by 9%, Deadly Momentum +15 corruption, haste by 546 and fucking mastery by 392

[balmy condor]

The mastery one is probably the worst one

[kind edge]

But I might wait for rank 3 yeah

[balmy condor]

But ye

Get on the echo train

[kind edge]

I'll just wait till the end of the month

And gather echoes till then

My cloak will get improved with corruption resistance as well

I just need July 24 and July 28 for 1x Strikethrough III and 1x Severence III

Cool stuff, thanks for help

[balmy condor]

No problem

Back to bed I guess

[steep plover]

Fuck even with 2 eb

Aoe dmg is insane

[kind edge]

Yeah, unfortunately I only have 2 EB and 2 SS

Other 2 is TK

[slim estuary]

So I am sitting there without gorak tul. I have 3.8k residium and figured if I gamble and shoulders are worse I can just item restore. Have a little gamble and I fot it

[tropic ocean]

for heavy trash dungeons

spyglass+ashvane

but vita is decent as well

[kind edge]

What chest do you guys use?

[slim estuary]

cara chest

[tropic ocean]

carapace

or ss/eb one

raiment of blighted tribe

[kind edge]

What was the name of the SS EB chest?

ah right

raiment of blighted tribe 😄

What about helm?

I have Ironside, but it has TK and SS

[tropic ocean]

cowl of fluid machinitions

is one

theres 2 afaik dunno the other one

[arctic walrus]

cowl is the only helm

with ss/eb

[kind edge]

Yeah nice, got it first try haha

cool

I'll try get the chest now

raiment of blighted tribe

[arctic walrus]

there's 2 chances from both shoulder and chest

[hoary apex]

Shoulders has 3 chances

For good pieces

[kind edge]

Now I have 3x EB, 2x SS and 1x TK

Guess I'll replace 1x TK for 1x NP

At least with NP I'll melt a target

[arctic walrus]

no, the ttk is better

[kind edge]

1x ttk is better than 1x NP?

Interesting to think that

[woven summit]

NP is pretty good, you melt a target as you said

[sullen pagoda]

TTK "gains" value of being able to spam envenom in aoe if you want to melt a target

at one point 3x ttk was meta i think s3

[woven summit]

Yeah, now it has lost its value?

Guess it's better to have 1x NP then

[sullen pagoda]

what

how did u get to its lost its value now

[woven summit]

Well you said s3

Didn't you?

[sullen pagoda]

yes and nothing about it changed

its just that 3x SS and 3x EB scale better with corruptions

NP if anything became even weaker

[kind edge]

So better having 1x TTK than 1x NP?

[sullen pagoda]

yes

[kind edge]

Aight, thanks

[sullen pagoda]

np

[woven summit]

Oh I see

[kind edge]

What do you guys think about Golden Plumage though? Seems to me it's a lot of vers on activation

[slim estuary]

plumage and vita are bis

[kind edge]

For m+?

I think people use dead eye more

and vita

[woven summit]

Hmm, good question, all that vers with EB might not be bad

But it's on use so...

[slim estuary]

I thought people just used combat for m

[keen tree]

is deadeye and vita better for m+ than deadeye and tormeent in a jar? All of those are very low ilvl for me but then so is the rest of my gear 🙂 for raid i will just sim it

[woven summit]

We discussed this previously and came to the conclusion that deadeye and vita is better than vita and torment in a jar

unless, you want to do giga aoe, then use torment in a jar

for giga aoe type of situations

I just wonder as well whether someone use golden plumage

for m+

[limber star]

Anyone here have to stay topside on m n'zoth and experiment with a little more aoe or did they just swap to outlaw

[sullen pagoda]

if you are staying at top you are saving your cds for boss to clap boss not go for aoe spec

[shrewd night]

Only reason to go outlaw, if you arent hypergeared for it, is if you are going down

If you are staying up, you may as well remain sin.

And as mtv says, your primary job is bossdamage, so going aoe defeats that purpose

[acoustic flicker]

as assa can i viably do m+ or should i farm for outlaw eps

[royal lantern]

watcha mean with viable

everyone can do stuff like 15 with 0 problems at all, +20 is also possible for assa tbh, its just when you go even higher outlaw tends too pull ahead cus of gouge+utility vanish, dmg is more or less the same for both specs

[tropic ocean]

+20 possible for assa

lucky me

[royal lantern]

i talk about the ussual player tbh

^^

its somewhat hard too understand what actually viable/high keys mean for some people

is 15 high? is 20high? is 23high?

[silent crescent]

I mean anyone can do 15s

[royal lantern]

anyone can do hc raids, yet the majority of the playerbase doesnt get curve/needs too buy it/gets carried for it

[tropic ocean]

im always high

any key tier

[silent crescent]

Can/want to are different though

Or want to put in the effort

[keen tree]

I think a lot of 'can sin rogues be viable in m+' comes down to who you are playing with. If pugging, do the other players have narrow minded and ill informed views of who can do what? If so you might struggle to get a group. I haven't seen this but i'm still stuck on very low keys. I wonder if it changes at higher keys. Will the tank chain pull without letting you get in to stealth? Are other dps doing interrupts reliably also?

[proud horizon]

im always high
@tropic ocean same 😂

[sullen pagoda]

I mean going for questions like that you will 100% never know if you are playing most effective spec

you can start questioning if tank will do proper pulls or is he some beta pulling 2 mobs at a time chaining 24/7 so should i go ineffable as outlaw so i dont run out of blade flurries or do idk something else also completely random xD

for pugs u just play what you think would be best for given dungeon / affixes and hope the group isnt pepega

[tropic ocean]

the most it comes down to how good you individually play

then theres nothing for a long time

and then comes your group

[silent crescent]

I keep getting grouped with my guilds spriest and we have very different opinions on chain pulling lmao. Not for anything crazy, just 15s

[tropic ocean]

chainpulls are not as bad as it seems, dunno where it comes from, way less impact if done properly and playing 3 eb

chainpulling is very efficient and makes the key faster in most cases

[woeful minnow]

you're losing 3 entire traits if the tank keeps chainpulling

[tropic ocean]

thanks for clarifying that

[woeful minnow]

dunno how it's not as bad as it seems

[tropic ocean]

because you already have energy rec covered

and can just keep aoeing

[silent crescent]

I hope bone spike in shadowlands mitigates the chain pulling issue by letting us get big damage from going over 3 instances of it

[tropic ocean]

and if the chain is done properly you don't lose the "ss" because the new pack will die together with the old pack

the problem with low rated/pug tanks is they chain new pack when old pack is 10,20% life which is bad

but even then u can just stay behind and restealth when pack dies

as aggro radius is still in affect for new pack

[woeful minnow]

I mean that's obviously what people mean when talking about chain pulling, not letting you get restealths off, that's where it "comes from"

[silent crescent]

Yeah otherwise that's just doing a big pull pretty much lol

[tropic ocean]

idk what you're saying

but its per no say bad

[night vale]

ive pugged a lot of m+ as assasination and not had an issue with chainpulls.

yeah occassionally i may not be able to get the restealth but 9/10 time you can as long as you dont aggro the new adds before old pack is dead, and if you cant restealth you have vanish OR worst case scenario you have to just put ruptures out and spam Fan of knives 😄

[sullen pagoda]

problem is lots of tanks dont realize whats effective chain pulling vs being a dumbass chain pulling just as mob is dying

[night vale]

its not as bad as people make out imo

[sullen pagoda]

good chain pulling is when u chainpull into peacekeepers in ML

u wont sit there killing 1 mob for 10mins

bad is when mobs are about to die and ur tank thinks hes a smartass for charging into next pack

[tropic ocean]

yeah but even then

u can just stay behind and restealth

imo 99% individual skill failure

[night vale]

^true, thats what i was trying to say

[sullen pagoda]

true

[tropic ocean]

personally the higher I went the less issues I had with chaining

but the avg playerskill also improves drastically so

compared to 15-20s

[night vale]

i dont push super higher but im pugging like 23 level right now, and ive not had issues all xpac

[tropic ocean]

personally for me atm when helping weeklies or playing on alts

17~19 is the worst range

cuz in 15s or 16s it doesnt matter

pull everything spam fok

but in 17~19 pug range everyone thinks hes godxgamer mdi champ 3x

plays complete dog and flames

🤷

when u tell them the smallest things to improve the run

[night vale]

i mean a bigger issue for me is nobrain tanks that run to africa with every obelisk and try to snap it, and all the dps cant hit it for about 10 mins xD

[tropic ocean]

when I tried to explain hunter and healer how to bait juggernauts cuz they kept dying to bolstered charges they just insulted me and kicked me from group and told me im boosted

:[

[night vale]

ha!

[tropic ocean]

in higher keys the attitude gets so much better like in 23 ur earlier someone ninjapulled worm

so tank was just like just blind it i'll pull skel pack into it

easy fix no issues no shouting no flaming

so much more pleasent to play

[night vale]

i mean, when im pugging i never pug on first day of the week.

Cause it seems that the majority of players have no idea about the new affixes, and just think "oh i pulled the whole room last week so ill do the same again"

tanks direspect fortified on the first day it seems :p so i now only play 6 days of the week

[tropic ocean]

I just try to dodge tuesdays

unless its a key I desperately need i'll give it it a shot

but I didn't play much in last 3 or 4 weeks

3 or 4 keys that gave score only

[night vale]

same tbh, i pushed to like 3.8k ages ago, and then have been in a cycle of playing with friends alts and just having fun for a while now.

[tropic ocean]

yeah

maybe gonna push some more this week

got plenty of 21s to push to 22 then im at 3,9k or so

might do the last push to 4k and then just stop

meanwhile china numba 1 timing 29 after 29

😄

[night vale]

i was so hyped tho, cause me and my friend timed a shrine 24 last week with no comms, a 3.7k tank, shadow priest, unholy dk and sin rogue

was the smoothest key we did all week

but timing a 22... impossible :p

[tropic ocean]

yeah

idk score is pretty inflated atm

i've played with 3.5k+hunters without binding shot talented

or

[night vale]

yeah we said the same. I suppose its just like given enough time and rotations, a LOT of players can time 21s on every key with 'perfect' affixes i guess.

we played with countless 3.7k tanks that turn their backs to bosses and dont use active mit

[tropic ocean]

after 16 or so deaths on first pack left side atal

when they kicked me

🤷

[night vale]

😂

[tropic ocean]

puglife

😄

by now I value when they did the keys and with who the highest

over max key/overall score

not inviting ppl that just play burst/skitt/fort and shit

or ppl that are 3.5k but timed all keys with 4.5k, 5k ppl

[night vale]

i mean my new metric (ive had decent success with) is paying attention to how many +20 timed keys theyve done.

obviously aswell as rio score, ill always prio the more experienced players.

Theres plently of 3.7k players with 15+ timed 20s.... versus ppl with 200+

[tropic ocean]

oh yeah that too

I often catch myself taking ppl that e.g. queue for 22

have it timed on 20 but like 4 or 5 times

so I take them over higher rated guy that just timed every key 1x or so

also have the feeling that ppl that actually need the key will stay longer as long as its timeable while I often made the experience that way higher ppl just leave when someone makes a mistake

cuz they expect 3k players to know 4k or higher strats

oh and I stopped taking off-role players, since crazy thing some days ago in atal 22, russian tank 5k rio joined with 3,2k pala that had bm hunter main 5.5k rio

ended up depleting 22 atal (while having 8 minutes left for last boss+plob) cuz pala died 4x or 5x to spiders

ending up in his own premade tank flaming him

😄

[night vale]

yep, i mean i have a few things on my bingo list for pugging m+:

1. Tank links a dratnos MDT route and doesnt follow it
2. Tried to snap obeslisk in africa so we lose loads of DPS time
3. says "RIP Key" after 1 wipe when its still easily timeable
4. Tank flame dps for low dmg, when he pulls waaaaay too many mobs and dies within 5 seconds XD

[tropic ocean]

😄

m+ bingo good one actually

nice chat, but gotta go see ya later and best of luck in puglyfe

[night vale]

see ya around 🙂

[rancid pier]

can anyone explain why the attack from behind ring is preferred over the cast 3 spells ring, i feel like I wouldn't be able to always be able to attack from behind

[crimson palm]

because we attack from behind

[woeful minnow]

dots count as from behind

[spiral valley]

@lethal heart ???

[lethal heart]

@spiral valley

[spiral valley]

[silent crescent]

Attack from behind is more uptime where it's usable, I imagine

And less to think about when debuff falls off

[dreamy mist]

u press more than 3 buttons every in the 15 minus 12 sec window anyway... its just that u dont have to do much to proc it with attack from behind in case u are rejoining the target

[tropic ocean]

do you really tho?

and from behind is 180° so

ez

[bleak bear]

Is there any shadow lands discussion on rogues atm

[tropic ocean]

in wow gen

[strange python]

The apl uses galecallers on cd wouldnt it a dps gain if we waited like 3-5 secs for exsang cd?

Since our big vombo comes at around 2:30?

[loud light]

the APL does not use gcb on cd

[patent topaz]

my 475 3 ability ring sims 80 dps higher than a 465 from behind. Cba pugging junkyards

[loud light]

@strange python
use_item,name=galecallers_boon,if=(debuff.vendetta.up|(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.vendetta.remains>45|talent.exsanguinate.enabled&(cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<6|cooldown.exsanguinate.remains>20&fight_remains>65)))&!exsanguinated.rupture

[strange python]

Wtf im dumb af

Tyvm

Didnt see this while checking for it guess i should sleep more

[fleet anchor]

😄

GCB line has changed a couple times recently as some more angles were found

[rancid bobcat]

So that line basically means it'll always line it up with an exsang?

Aside from end of fight

[rocky ibex]

i got 2 pants 475

1 with haste crit and the others with vers mastery

haste crit with socket

[balmy condor]

Nice

[shut garnet]

would it be a bad idea playing iris on nzoth to parse

it's not that terrible of an iris fight, right?

[balmy condor]

I don’t think anyone runs iris on n’zoth

[tropic ocean]

i play iris minor all the time

u can never drop the buff unless u have downtime

[balmy condor]

Iris minor is great

[tropic ocean]

if u play it properly

[balmy condor]

But major?

That’s troll

[tropic ocean]

major for what to pad on psychophage?

will have same effect with blood most likely

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking

[shut garnet]

every top log runs iris minor

[balmy condor]

Well yeah minor obviously

[shut garnet]

yeah thats what i meant

nani

[balmy condor]

You run Iris minor on basically everything

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

I assumed you meant major

[shut garnet]

no no lemao

[balmy condor]

Since minor is basically the go-to

Yes, you should use iris minor

[shut garnet]

well, when i quit 3-4months ago ish

the go to was cns lucid breath

for any fight where you switch target

but yea

ty

[tropic ocean]

but that was when bleed build was not popular

and corruption vendor I guess

[shut garnet]

tru

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Iris gives so much haste

[shut garnet]

yea ngl not quite fully got the bleed build

but good to know iris slaps on nzoth also

[fleet anchor]

I mean Corruption Vendor has been a pretty big meta shift for sure

Only a handful of people were ever able to naturally get the haste levels required to make the bleed build work otherwise

Based on my Corruption drops over the last couple months, I'm pretty sure I'd personally still be stuck at like Expedient 12 at best

Maybe just 9 with some Racing Pulse 6 or something

Might not have even been enough to break into the build 😦

[honest vessel]

yeah i'd still be playing tb for sure lol

[rocky ibex]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nuuHxBSG6wq4DTUeaxQN6N

what else do i need

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t be playing lul

You need

More sockets, mecha rings

[strange python]

higher on use trinket

[balmy condor]

Mythic azerite

[strange python]

preferably mythic titanshard

[balmy condor]

Mythic cara daggers as well

[strange python]

and ofc the 34% crit powerspike 8)

your haste kinda low for crimson tempest aswell

[balmy condor]

Maybe

Idk

[strange python]

he has 52%

Im simming it

[balmy condor]

Aha ye im on mobile

[strange python]

idk missing a lot of essential pieces

[honest vessel]

biggest thing is azerite lvl prolly

[strange python]

mecha rings

are huge

[honest vessel]

yeah i thought they'd be for me, but i finally got them and they were only worth like a few sockets

idk if thats a testament to sockets

or me not being able to do math

[random crater]

ideally we want haste mastery for expedient and ct right?

[honest vessel]

ya, you need some crit tho

[strange python]

ye

Im simming mecha rings in gear compare

[rancid bobcat]

it's 3+ sockets worth which is big

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uQWzzwcNUsNpsk4e11HMxk

pretty big I would say

[honest vessel]

i think it was minimal for me cuz i was replacing like 475 socketted rings with 465 unsocketted, so it looked smol

even tho it isnt

[balmy condor]

Yeah 3k seems pretty normal

Kinda huge

[rancid bobcat]

well yeah

[strange python]

that was before he had expedient gear too

so Im resimming

xd

basically same thing

[mortal herald]

Hey! came back to wow recently and I'm having trouble figuring out some sims. In the guide i've seen that ST priorities are haste and crit, but my sims says that haste is my lower stat https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sLckMFqCCZo4YxR4NRoLpV

[strange python]

your essences are shit

[balmy condor]

Don’t sim stat weights

[strange python]

get rank 3 ones

[balmy condor]

Stat weights are useless information

[mortal herald]

I'm working on that

the essences

[strange python]

also

you need end game gear for expedient to pull ahead by a lot

[mortal herald]

came back last week, lot of catch up to do

[balmy condor]

Stat weights shift and move around constantly

[strange python]

I would suggest get essences and just farm gear tbh

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[mortal herald]

Thanks

[strange python]

@rocky ibex https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vby3msPS117UywxQY8ySDo get mecha rings, farm KR versa on use trinket

and a mythic chestpiece with ss

and helm with SS

[balmy condor]

Or just pull a 475 galecallers out of the chest

[remote oriole]

If you get trash from residium vendors is there a way to refund them? Idk, a item restore loop hole or that

[balmy condor]

You can scrap it

[strange python]

U can scrap

[balmy condor]

For 1000 residuum

On the 480’s

[strange python]

I rolled 475 plumage whispyr 8)

[remote oriole]

Okay gd its a risk I'll have to take thx

[balmy condor]

Rolling helms is a nightmare

[strange python]

yes

[balmy condor]

Good luck soldier

[strange python]

holy shit

I wish I would've saved

4:th week now

😦

still using maut helm

[balmy condor]

Unlucky

I kinda want an iron tide for m+ tbh

Hasn’t done it yet

[strange python]

I rolled outlaw bis helm 3 weeks in a row 😦

[balmy condor]

Unlucky

[strange python]

Well, gambling was not on my side this time!

got goraks first buy 8)

Cowl should be better for ST than irontide right?

[balmy condor]

Cowls SS/NP

Right? That’s probably better yeah

[strange python]

y

[balmy condor]

If you have enough haste

[strange python]

it's blood siphon vs OP

but I think 72% base is enough

[balmy condor]

Well it’s also CT vs PB

[strange python]

y

[balmy condor]

So it’s a double whammy

[strange python]

75% with food atm

[balmy condor]

Poppin

[strange python]

true

lacking in the mastery apartment though

[balmy condor]

34% is fine

[strange python]

36% for me 😦

[balmy condor]

Actually unplayable

[strange python]

my haste vers gloves are fucking me

and vers crit dagger 😦

[rancid bobcat]

vers is not bad

[strange python]

it's just worse than mastery

[rancid bobcat]

not necessarily

and fixed with gems

[strange python]

vers is my worst stat 🙂

[rancid bobcat]

not mine 🙂

[strange python]

really?

[rancid bobcat]

full gear sims end up with some amount of vers

either on base gear or through gems

granted its not a lot, but vers on 2 pieces of gear is fine

[balmy condor]

vel's gear setup has a piece without haste

stats b t w

[rancid bobcat]

cara boots is cheating

[balmy condor]

:D

[strange python]

cara boots?

[balmy condor]

they're legs I'm pretty sure

[strange python]

oh

[rancid bobcat]

well

make that 2 then

[scarlet sequoia]

wtf u need haste on every piece

no exceptions

[balmy condor]

it sims higher for him

[rancid bobcat]

someone make my tanks use crucible

[balmy condor]

same tho

[lean harbor]

ahaha i loot cara dagger

then bonus roll another

im so fucking lucky

[strange python]

o.O

[patent topaz]

6 kills no dagger, hopefully I can get it before the 10th

[strange python]

I can see a difference in rng here xD

[rancid bobcat]

life is unfair but now i have 3

technically need a 4th

[strange python]

which is better

assassination or outlaw

[balmy condor]

depends on content

they have their pros and cons

[strange python]

raids / mythic +

[balmy condor]

generally speaking sin for raids, outlaw for m+

[strange python]

what about sbutlety

[balmy condor]

dead spec

[strange python]

yeah im running it rn while leveling

not really strong

LOL

[balmy condor]

got gutted in uldir and never got fixed

well

leveling literally matters 0

you can't judge a spec's power during leveling

[strange python]

you can a bit

[balmy condor]

maybe like 110-120

but even then

[strange python]

sure azarite traits and stuff

[balmy condor]

yikes

[strange python]

outlaw seems more fun

[balmy condor]

sin has a completely different playstyle from early gear levels to late gear levels

[strange python]

which is harder outlaw or sin

[balmy condor]

they're both kinda oogabooga

if you don't mind roll the bones

[strange python]

wdy mean by that

[balmy condor]

then probably outlaw

[rancid bobcat]

both are simple

[strange python]

oh ok

[balmy condor]

yeah

[strange python]

im a shaman main

[balmy condor]

they're not very difficult to begin with

[strange python]

anything is hard for me

[balmy condor]

outlaw you kinda just smash your face on the keyboar

[strange python]

can i still do raids with outlaw

[balmy condor]

and sin you just put dots and then wait till you can do the opener again

[strange python]

or is the dps loss too huge

[balmy condor]

yeah you can

but if you're trying to do like late mythic

you'll be kinda gimped

it's not unusable though

like even for 7 or 8/12 mythic you'll probably be fine with outlaw

[strange python]

i saw someone do +23

[balmy condor]

nice

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316823/world-first-battle-for-azeroth-30-keystone-achieved-in-operation-mechagon-junkya?webhook

outlaw rogue

[strange python]

what race did you roll

[rancid bobcat]

funny now that raider.io is tracking china cause of that

[strange python]

im an undead

[rancid bobcat]

cant ignore the chinese anymore

[balmy condor]

racials do not matter

[drifting cloud]

not really tracking

[balmy condor]

at all

[drifting cloud]

just manually addind

[rancid bobcat]

race doesnt matter pick w/e you like

i mean

yeah just adding them in general

automated or not

[drifting cloud]

and its just this 1 group isnt it

[rancid bobcat]

oh i guess that makes sense nvm

[strange python]

im not sure which helmet to pick from the conquest reward thing

[rancid bobcat]

poor chinese groups

[balmy condor]

what's the options

[strange python]

could i send some screenshots ?

[balmy condor]

for pve ye?

[rancid bobcat]

i would probably go with the cap

[strange python]

i also do quite a lot of pvp but just random bg's and arena's

[rancid bobcat]

cause it has dd/np/op

[strange python]

and im a but low ilvl anyway (447)

[rancid bobcat]

theres no good SS pvp head

for pvp you pick hood though

[balmy condor]

yeah

[strange python]

but the hood i have now is 435 instead of the 450 one i can pick

[rancid bobcat]

actually just pick hood

[strange python]

i picked undead for its racial

for pvp

it's 4 hoods

[rancid bobcat]

cause hood is the same as cap in terms of pve, but hood also has that one pvp trait you can swap to for pvp

[strange python]

ooh they have different names

[rancid bobcat]

yea

just go with hood

i ended up getting all 4

[strange python]

but doesn't leather cap have double dose + nothing personal , overwhelming power and a better inner ring?

so basically the same but better inner

[rancid bobcat]

hood has the same thing

[strange python]

it has gemhide and lying in wait

[rancid bobcat]

defensive doesn't really matter

[strange python]

aren't those pretty shit

[rancid bobcat]

like

the defensives almost don't matter at all in pve

[strange python]

yeah

but if leather cap has the same bis traits

[rancid bobcat]

and cap defensives are useless in pvp

[strange python]

and a better defensive

isn't it just better

[rancid bobcat]

while hood has battlefield focus which is good for pvp

[strange python]

i don't get how the focus is different if the traits are the same but 1 is worse

[rancid bobcat]

???

traits are the same pve wise

but hood is better for pvp cause it has battlefield focus

[strange python]

ah yeah i get it

[rancid bobcat]

as in you can respec it if you want to swap between pvp and pve

[strange python]

i thought you meant a better focus on battlegrounds

but it's a trait

[vagrant hawk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt_zd3W6GOk&t=2s pvp guide

[lament skiff]

this may be a silly question, but does it matter what weapon i put my deadly or quick navigation enchants on (main hand vs off hand)?

[balmy condor]

no

no difference

[lament skiff]

ok thanks!

[balmy condor]

@vagrant hawk that seems to be an m+ guide

[vagrant hawk]

ya its nice

[balmy condor]

you wrote pvp

[vagrant hawk]

oopsy

[balmy condor]

generally correct info too

50% crit softcap tho

[vagrant hawk]

hes my buddy in guild, 3k+ io

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean there's some, I'm gonna say interesting ideas

maybe I'm not understanding his explanation though

[scarlet sequoia]

3k rio holy moly!

[drifting cloud]

atleast its not 34% hardcap

[balmy condor]

yeah 3k ain't huge

but like 50% softcap crit, kinda weird

[scarlet sequoia]

😱

[balmy condor]

his "opener" or whatever is kinda weird

not sure why he insists on 3 fan of knives

but I guess

sure

[vagrant hawk]

aoe

[scarlet sequoia]

[balmy condor]

3x garrote into CT

and then 3x FoK into rupture

repeat 3 times

kinda janky

[warm fulcrum]

[fleet anchor]

As long as you interrupt shit and don't die to stupid things and have good gear timing 20-21s you could probably slap your face across the keyboard semi-randomly presuming you can get 3x Garrote and CT up most of the time 😛

[balmy condor]

"if you spam fan of knives 3 times you know its time for a finisher"

[scarlet sequoia]

is it a guide for blind people by any chance

[balmy condor]

he's got the general ideas

but its like ye olde' infexious

randomly just chucks in stuff that makes very little sense

with 0 reasoning

I'm still waiting on why there's a 50% soft cap

He just decided to say that the cap exists

[vagrant hawk]

i invited him to this discord

he'll be able to answer ur question after we do m+

[balmy condor]

and then was like "we get 2-3 severs and then strikethroughs"

[fleet anchor]

I mean 50% "softcap" sounds like it's somewhat assuming MA or something? But wouldn't ever want to play MA with 3x SS...

[vagrant hawk]

he says if u watch the video, u wud understand

[balmy condor]

I'm 20 minutes in

[vagrant hawk]

why 50% soft cap is required

[balmy condor]

and I'm understanding less and less

he's got stat priority sure, sounds good, EB damage scaling, that's all fine

goes over some EB/stat explanations

then goes on a weird tangent about how sin rogue is apparently really good at trash damage

and not boss damage

[warm fulcrum]

[balmy condor]

"that's why they're brought to keys, they can do a lot of damage when it comes to killing trash mobs"

u wot

hits corruption section, vendor blah

and then there it is

"you'll be aiming for 50% crit from your gear"

and he never explains it ever again

[harsh sphinx]

your about to get to the good part

[balmy condor]

"after you get to this lil 50% softcap"

my bad

he references it again

[rancid bobcat]

might be just copying ryfie's stuff

cause ryfie has 50% crit in his guide thing in his discord

[shut garnet]

i mean

if all your gear is critmast/critvers with strikethrough severe

[balmy condor]

very possible

[shut garnet]

you will be super clunky on bosses

maybe not really bad but

[balmy condor]

its okay though, we're only brought for trash damage

[shut garnet]

its not that wrong of a statement

[quartz depot]

ye its because our damage is trash

[rancid bobcat]

assassination can pop off on trash tbh

[shut garnet]

like what u gonna do on bosses with 0 haste and 3SS3EB

its like the nuttiest, most consistent aoe dmg in the game

[balmy condor]

but that's not why we're brought

[rancid bobcat]

but yeah rogue just doesnt have a build for all around damage

[shut garnet]

but feels so slow n bad

on ST

not gonna lie, is there any reason to even bring an assa anyway over an outlaw?

unless theres already an outlaw in the group

[balmy condor]

aoe slow

prio damage

[warm fulcrum]

Bring a mage then

[balmy condor]

ye u rite

bring a frost mage

[shut garnet]

probably still not enough since ur giving up the most godlike crowd control class in m+

and u already gonna have mage + huntard

[balmy condor]

its just gouge

[shut garnet]

for making targets poof

and vanish cheap?

[balmy condor]

I mean I guess

vanish silence usually fine

[shut garnet]

plus, from a gearing perspective assa is so aids to gear man

[balmy condor]

there was a heated discussion bout this yesterday

[shut garnet]

legit all 3 pieces from the vendor

[balmy condor]

they each have their points

[shut garnet]

outlaw gets 2/3 from raid

[balmy condor]

its not cut and dry outlaw or nothing

[vagrant hawk]

so its better to be an outlaw?

[balmy condor]

generally, yes

[shut garnet]

has its benefits

overall yes

but it’s not like a HUGE difference

[balmy condor]

if you're only doing m+, outlaw is the more well rounded pick

[shut garnet]

ppl at the lower/middle end just like metaslaving and WF keys guys just wanna optimise fully so

basically why you see a lot less assa than outlaw

[green basalt]

So is the shoulders from illgy anything i should aim for or stick with goraks?

[balmy condor]

goraks usually beats it

[green basalt]

Coolio then i continue to play range on that fight 😂

No vita this week etiher :( got the head tho

[sinful island]

Has anyone made a bis list since we can kinda get that now with all the vendors and socket buying?

[balmy condor]

no

but you should just get haste on every piece, socket everything, and stack expeds

you just top gear everything

and its whatever

[green basalt]

quick question, is it worth farming the mechagon ring set or just use 475 crit/haste rings?

[sinful island]

Ah alright, thanks!

[balmy condor]

it is well worth farming mechagon rings

[sinful island]

Think the mechagon rings are bis for sure

[balmy condor]

they're like 3k dps single target from other rings

[green basalt]

ah will trying to get in a few runs this week 🙂