IS is the only viable corruption for them
#assassination
balmy condor
quiet finch
did get one shot on maut tho, which was nice to see
i have stars 8
i wanna see if its worth doing that over expedients on strict ST
quiet finch
fair enough
i see a lot of rogues on warcraftlogs running tendies on wrath
also brb
slim estuary
What's DS pandemic window?
slim estuary
right, 8.4s for rupt?
balmy condor
ye
I wouldn't remember that though
with DS you still finish at 5
so you lose dps if you apply a 5cp rupture at 8.4 technically
just stick with 7.2 and you'll have more than enough time
safe sluice
is it viable to run expedients all the way for m+?
balmy condor
depends on what 'viable'
means to you
but generally, yes
its worse, but you'll do pretty okay on smaller pulls like in KR for example
CT does pretty good damage
but you'll lose a lot of EB damage
safe sluice
https://mplus.subcreation.net/assassination-rogue.html looking at this..seems like sever is more popular
balmy condor
yeah
its definitely butter
by a mile
but that also says +18 to +28
I wouldn't take it as gospel
its based on logs, and no one logs m+
so
big grain of salt
generally speaking though, yes
balmy condor
there's meme builds where you take lash of the void and then just don't mutilate
it actually works kinda okay
safe sluice
damn im gonna try that on a lower 15 key or something...for the lul
balmy condor
there's some hivemind parses that do the same thing
or double diver folly from EP
you have to run 3x EB for it though
will be trash without it
steep plover
Oh ye
I usually use my m+ buikd
Ss+eb
For hivemind
Is that worth it? Or do people still pump st build
I guess at high haste CT is enough aoe for drones? And then u can focus high prio targets
balmy condor
yeah its a meme build
it'll pad aoe pretty hard
but its definitely not the way to go
steep plover
Ye for prog i dont really care much about what my dmg looks like
Let the aoe players shine
fervent jasper
any idea why I'm simming SO low? Im about to try this exang build out in a 23 workshop so I decided to keep one EB for the trash so I know thats effecting it but i still feel like I should be way higher. This is a 5m sim too which is probably longer than every boss will take besides the last one https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p8jcFysEgd4Wzt2hZ1Gdku
harsh sphinx
not sure if you meant to turn it off or what
balmy condor
yeah I simmed with bloodlust, gave about 4k
the EB hits it pretty hard though
with bloodlust and just changing the EB to DD
you gain like 7500 dps single target
pretty major
steep plover
I dont think ull need the eb foe workshop tho
Ct + garrotes i feel like should be enough no?
fervent jasper
CT is still simming like 1.3k lower on ST for me than PB
so idk if im gunna run that
balmy condor
TTK completely disables CT
steep plover
Has said
balmy condor
the APL ignores CT in single target with TTK
balmy condor
cause TTK makes envenom much stronger per combo point than CT
balmy condor
diib is trash
steep plover
Ye lmao
I feel like the cleave from garrot should be pretty good for dungeons like kr and ws no?
Not many big mobs
fervent jasper
I asked Ryfie that and he said in m+ at least1 EB is mandatory no matter what dungeon or affix combo
steep plover
Damn
balmy condor
1 EB is definitely the way to go
steep plover
Respect
balmy condor
I'm thinking about how to fit it in
like if you look at something like this
right
CT is only 300 down from that
and then you could run the shoulders as EB
or the 480 EB chest
and that would probably be okay
patent topaz
1 EB in WS is kinda 
balmy condor
I think 1 EB is correct
unless its tyran WS
if its tyran, then I think you can argue about it
but the overall damage from EB is just strong
fervent jasper
Ryfie said 1-2EB even for Tyran shop
fervent jasper
So i should basically run the set up i have now but with CT instead of bomb
steep plover
Oi what would u change with the ss+eb build for a situation like that (kr/ws tyrannical week/ non tyrannical week) if anything
steep plover
Ye
fervent jasper
you swap 1-2 EB for TTK/HoD or NP if nothing else
balmy condor
yeah
steep plover
Loke would u get rid of an eb
fervent jasper
but keep the 3x SS
steep plover
Right
balmy condor
I think typically WS and KR
are the 2 where you take out EB
I've seen some people run 2x EB for high tyran UNDR keys as well
but Idk how I feel about that
I would honestly still run 3x EB on that
steep plover
Right
Would u change anything talent/essence wise when in a kr tyrnannical
Situation
balmy condor
nah
steep plover
I hate having to change shit around fucks my head in
balmy condor
single target
steep plover
Ye tru but my exped buikd is trash rn lmao
balmy condor
but keeping 1 EB and going crit with vigor is honestly fine
steep plover
I could just chuck expedients on my current gear but im waiting for some good 475s from weeklys
Ye sweet
Thanks cuzzy
Ur always a mad help ay
balmy condor
I try
steep plover
Big respect for it
vagrant schooner
Hi guys! Just a simple question. With Exsanguinate/poison bomb build in the opener if your first mutilate dont hit crit and u got only 5cp, do you use Exsanguinate with it or you go to another mutilate until 6cp?
balmy condor
you CT
if you're running it
if the mut after vend hits 6, you rupture exsang
if the mut hits 5, you ct mut to 6 rupture exsang
I'm not sure about poison bomb
vagrant schooner
what is CT?
vagrant schooner
ah ok, for now i have poison bomb, my haste is not so hight to build ct
balmy condor
its a very minimal gain with CT to do the 5cp/6cp swap
yeah
with PB you just mut->rup->exsang
regardless of 5 or 6cp
like that
you could also macro your trinket to vendetta if you so choose
vagrant schooner
yeah, thats what i did
balmy condor
using your trinket early like that makes it hit a couple extra ticks of garrote
which is technically a gain
but also very minimal
so if you aren't comfortable with it, macroing is fine
vagrant schooner
I have versatile trinket i think its not realy important to garrote gain (Lustrous Golden Plumage)
balmy condor
I mean
it will be a gain
but like I said before, it won't be huge
you can do without it
fallow otter
When does plumage become an upgrade? Vita coral still best for me, certain amount of haste along with blood major?
balmy condor
plumage usually becomes an up when you have a decent amount of crit and a lot haste/expeds
if you have a high ilvl coral or a low ilvl plumage
it'll obviously be kinda yike
steep plover
U reckon a 470 crit/mastery ring is good enough to chuck on a severe or strikethrough?
Charged sandstone band
vagrant schooner
steep plover
For m+
balmy condor
you should mutilate after the vendetta ideally fenso
but yeah
that's fine
and yeah, haste is obviously kinda weaker
but haste is still good for garrotes and CT
so its not actually awful
steep plover
Ye true
balmy condor
especially in smaller pulls, its actually not bad
steep plover
Gna have to think this one out
balmy condor
if you're going hard on the crit one
and big EB stacking
then yeah sure
run the crit/mastery
steep plover
Ye im going for big eb
Fuck it
Watch me get a 475 crit/vers ring next week
And cry
balmy condor
omegalul
steep plover
Should u try and find a balance between vers and mastery for m+. I dont have much crit/vers gear but i have a lot of crit/mast and idk if i shoukd just corrupt my crit/mast or try and get some crit/vers to balance it out
balmy condor
not worth thinking about tbh
steep plover
Im overthinking it ay
So u reckon itd be a good move to just move to full strike through/severe now, even tho some of the gear is 470 and mostly crit mastery (42% mastery only 7% vers)
balmy condor
usually is the play yeah
steep plover
Aight bet
balmy condor
severe6 and then rest strikethrough
rancid spade
ayyyyy
sharp schooner
do i use wound or deadly poison in pvp
balmy condor
the heal reduc is too strong
still canopy
hey guys, recently returned player here and wondering if you could help me with some questions? Currently catching up on corruptions and was wondering if there s any compromise between pvp and m+ corruptions (does 8 gushing work in both?)? also I got the guidance device trinket from weekly and was told its one of the best ones for pvp, what are your thoughts there? any advice is much appreciated ! thanks 🙂
vocal temple
man fuck the horrific visions combo this week
every 5 seconds either trapped in a circle or knocked out of stealth
balmy condor
@still canopy “work in both” is a very relative term. Will you gimp yourself in PvE? 100% sin requires at least 3 gear sets if you want to play pve, pvp, and m+ at a high level. If your goal is to do heroic raids and couple 10-15’s, very little will matter tbh. A lot of groups can stomp those and you losing 15% damage or however much from doing an actual build probably won’t stop them
You will need to get azerite pieces though. You can get away with bad corruptions, or bad azerite, but having bad corruptions and bad azerite starts to get pretty rough
Especially in pve with an all GW setup, you’ll run out of slots to put GW on, and then you’ll sit there with like 5 corruption while the rest of your raid is at 50
And you’re gonna get steamrolled
For sure
fervent jasper
Gotta love it. Make azerite gear time gated and RNG dependent, require players get 3 different sets to play the game, charge 80k for reforges if they dont and still want to play their spec. let alone play their class
worst thing about BFA imo
still canopy
@balmy condor Thanks for your reply! GW us rather cost effecient though no? So in theory I thought I could get more out of it? I only raid hc, mained outlaw last season for higher keys but since it's fairly wep locked I thought I d give assa a shot
vast forum
gushing wound is good enough for all content
fervent jasper
@still canopy it got nerfed substantially. its not that great anymore
balmy condor
GW got nerfed so it’s not the most efficient
And with cloak res rising and rising
The 15 corruption per slot
Just ain’t enough anymore
still canopy
Sadly crit seems to be bad for PvP so running full severe might be a problem
balmy condor
GW or tendies
Is probably the strat
If it has to be one set of gear for all content
Once you get enough resist might have to be a mixture
still canopy
Pretty much....I m just trying to get keystone master and hit some arenas really
And not be useless haha
balmy condor
Should probably consider outlaw tbh
Sin is mega reliant on multiple gear sets
I think the outlaw guys have it much easier
fervent jasper
they/we do
there's only 1 trait they run in m+ they wouldnt run in every other kind of content
and even then they still run it a lot in raid if the fight has adds
still canopy
Ye but it's reliant on ra den wep
fervent jasper
Just pug heroic youll get one soon enough
still canopy
And crap in PvP sadly
balmy condor
Well
You gotta pick one or the other
You either get the spec that can do it all but needs 3 gear sets
Or you pick the spec that’s kinda eh but needs 1
If you want to do everything and you want 1 gear set
You should’ve played a fire mage
fervent jasper
the way this expac works forces you to basically choose 1 spec to play for all content unless youre mega lucky with gear
just the way it is
still canopy
Hmm ...well that makes sense. Sucks haha
balmy condor
Fire mage does it all with 1 gear set
Bm hunter does it all with 1 gear set
And basically no talent swaps
fervent jasper
I think BM takes killer cobra in raid and swap out rapid reload
balmy condor
They change 1 talent in aoe/ST
And they need a single rapid reload
And that’s it
That’s all they do
fervent jasper
rogue has it particularly bad tho especially since we dont have 1 spec thats best for every kind of content, or at least playable for it
cuz yeah survival is probably better in PvP but BM is fine. outlaw is actual garbage though
balmy condor
Meanwhile sin has to change trinkets and gear and corrupts and azerite and their home mailing address and marry into a different last name
still canopy
Lmao accurate
SL is quite far away still so maybe next month I can get full severe/GW
balmy condor
Rogues got no attention this whole xpac
fervent jasper
not like youll be doing anything else with your echos after SL is released
balmy condor
And now towards the end we’re kind of held together by duct tape, expedients, echoing blades, and sheer willpower
fervent jasper
@balmy condor they literally just needed to fix the reforging process and it would have been fine
if youre not lucky with gear then you spend weeks to months eating massive costs
thats easy to rectify, they just didnt do it
balmy condor
And design EB for more than 2 hours while on crack
And fix sub for the last 3 patches
And address outlaw m+ utility
still canopy
Corruptions cycle every few weeks so getting bis for 2 specs should be doable
fervent jasper
Outlaw's m+ utility is fine though
balmy condor
“Fine” is one way to put it
fervent jasper
back in S1 assa was m+ meta even though outlaw still had gouge and vanish for utility
because outlaw didnt have wits
balmy condor
Outlaw has more cc utility than most specs have buttons in their rotation lmao
fervent jasper
sin has AoE silence and DR
constant slow
i think the utility advantage is honestly up for debate
balmy condor
Doesn’t matter
fervent jasper
gouge is more of a luxery
balmy condor
We have to vanish for damage
fervent jasper
it just lets other people tunnel
balmy condor
And gouge is a free interrupt
fervent jasper
but you dont need it
balmy condor
Without the silence it would be an absolute blowout
We can keep up, site
Sure*
But I think debating outlaw vs sin utility is silly
still canopy
So what about the guidance device trinket for PvP? You got any experience with that?
fervent jasper
then why wasnt outlaw still m+ meta in S1?
balmy condor
Because outlaw sucked in S1
fervent jasper
they still had free vanish and gouge
balmy condor
Okay for some reason you don’t get that utility alone doesn’t make a spec good
Frost
Ton of utility
Shit spec
Unusable
Fire, much less utility, good spec
Usable
Outlaw, ton of utility, good spec
fervent jasper
i do get that. Thats why I dont think outlaw has a utility problem
balmy condor
REQUIRED META
fervent jasper
if they needed a utility nerf so would frost
but theres so much more than that
a 15 sec CD incap really isnt breaking the spec
balmy condor
I agree, outlaw has more than that
And that’s why it’s a problem
If outlaw was weaker, you’d see more sin, if outlaw had less utility, you’d see more sin
But you don’t
Because outlaw has the damage of sin, with free bonuses
fervent jasper
I think the only reason outlaw is meta and sin isnt for m+ boils down entirely to sin needed constant combat drops
which people make a bigger deal out of than it is
but thats really a deal breaker for a lot of groups
like evn if sin did more damage the fact that they need to restealth would turn off a lot of groups
balmy condor
I agree
fervent jasper
and at this point in the game im not even sure if outlaw does beat sin damage in m+. I play both specs and usually beat the outlaw rogue if I play with one while im sin
fervent jasper
my overalls between the 2 specs are pretty similar
amber quail
That is The real matter of sin: restealth for garrote...if they fix this part downing the dmg BUT unchaind from sthealth or giunge us something diffrent by talents, so sin become top tier. We need to burn vanish to save dps; we need ti restealth slowing The groups
balmy condor
Not taking vita is troll
balmy condor
Like actually full troll
strange python
but Banner is consistant
balmy condor
??? Vita uptime is huge
strange python
ye 20sec is insane
but how often does it proc in 1m
and it often dont fit into your burst phase
balmy condor
90% sure it’s a 2rppm trinket
cobalt pelican
1
strange python
2rppm?
cobalt pelican
i think you pretty much always take a 460 spyglass over a 430 vita probably
but sims can evaluate all of this for you can give you meaningful results
strange python
sim ?
balmy condor
Raidbots
balmy condor
What was the difference between the spyglass and the vita
strange python
60k dps ( actually it is around 75-85k )with the glass and banner
but just for 15sec tho
strange python
after that it falls a bit
balmy condor
Between the spyglass and the vita
strange python
i guess it was 55k with vita and fether
cobalt pelican
i feel like there's been some misunderstanding here
raidbots is raidbots.com a website you use to evaluate items
balmy condor
Yeah
strange python
strange python
yes
balmy condor
And you did spyglass vs vita
balmy condor
Okay we can talk about that later
strange python
i also changed some talents trying something out
balmy condor
But can you sim the spyglass vs the vita
balmy condor
Go to top gear
And select the spyglass, the vita, and the plumage/galecaller
Whichever you prefer
I’ll dm you, we can do this in German maybe it’s the language barrier
woeful moss
Hey! It's worth to sacrifice every piece without haste for pieces with haste even if you lose some crit/mast in the process?
balmy condor
That’s usually a sim question
But generally speaking for raids you will want haste on every piece you can get and exped stacking
woeful moss
Ye ye i simmed a lot, just wanted to know some thoughts :D
green forge
But generally speaking for raids you will want haste on every piece you can get and exped stacking
@balmy condor
Even if I’m not 100% sure about what I’m about to say, I would have say 485 cara boots are usually better than 475 with haste.
balmy condor
generally speaking
young vessel
is is my weakaura missing the color or rupture doesnt get exsanguinated
balmy condor
Obviously BiS and what’s best here or there is a finnicky topic
young vessel
its right after pressing exsang on fresh bleeds
green forge
Wa issue, rupt gets exsang buff
balmy condor
Hard to know what’s going wrong without seeing the wa
young vessel
is it hard to fix or should i just get new one ;d
balmy condor
Well without knowing where it’s breaking
No idea how hard it is to fix
The entire code could be spaghetti
In which case, very difficult
Or you’re not tracking the right ID
In which case, very easy
young vessel
well its just
when rupture is buffed by exsanguinate
rupture's timer should be red
as garrote timer
green forge
I did my own wa with exsang buff & empowered garrot.
I’m currently on phone, so I cant share it atm.
But feel free to PM if you struggle with your wa @young vessel
balmy condor
Yeah same here
fervent jasper
Is there a protocol for when to DoT adds and when not to
like on the last boss in WCM
do you rupture the adds
or like the 1st boss in TD is it FoK spam during adds or Fok-env-fok
fervent jasper
What would I search for in that channel to find it?
young vessel
ok so let me just ask you guys if i understand the build right. in opener i garrote rup, then CT and full rupture exsang
balmy condor
Kinda
young vessel
and as a pandemic of the first garrote, from vanish i extend it right?
strange python
yo roodi
strange python
can you dm me that Talent weakaura?
balmy condor
That gives you the full garrote
young vessel
i know how to execute it but i want to understand it
balmy condor
Then you vendetta mut right
And now the dilemma comes
If it’s 5cp, you CT
If it’s 6 you rupture
Cause you want the full rupture
young vessel
ye
balmy condor
So if you land the 6cp off that mut
You win gg
Rupture exsang bote
Ezpz
If you land 5
You CT
And then build a 6cp rupture
green forge
I saw Whispyr linked Raz guide earlier.
There is mostly everything you need to know @young vessel
young vessel
im playing CLF but propably gonna do bote on nzoth
balmy condor
And then exsang
Well
Yeah if you CLF you cast that before the vendetta
And same logic applies
young vessel
ye
fervent jasper
So i read Koji's post on prio damage but it wasnt clear whether or not EB was included in that as he states he uses mutilate as his generator and that "FoK damage is not good". Intuitively id think that would be absent EB
fervent jasper
Jesus. and to think all of that is to be out dps'd by a hunter spamming multi shot
shut garnet
shut garnet
balmy condor
With enough haste, exsang
fervent jasper
This is kinda a dumb question but on 2 boss encounters like the Council in FH and Shrine, you want garrote, rupture, and CT ticking on both targets at all times right?
balmy condor
Bleed and big shrouded suffocation garrotes
It’s a good time
Yeah you’d full dot both
shut garnet
ct is still very not worth even keeping up on ST bosses with 3eb3ss str/sev right?
strange python
ye hold em dots on em for energie gain and damage
shut garnet
im pretty sure last season someone talked about it and came to the conclusion a full cp envenom was better on st
balmy condor
But I think you’re right
shut garnet
yea on 2 obvs fine
fervent jasper
I was watching Ryfie's stream once and he was doing a +25 Shop. After the 1st boss they pulled the 2 waste processing units and I noticed him Garrote both of them but then vendetta one and just tunnel it. Is there a reason why? like does vendetta on 1 target reduce the priority of DoTing the 2nd target?
fervent jasper
okay and while vendetta is up on one you dont need to rupture the 2nd
balmy condor
Yeah the vendetta is a big damage increase
fervent jasper
i assume that would be the case on the council boss in shrine too then
balmy condor
You would just Tunnel like that
fervent jasper
so you garrote both and dont rupture the dude until vendetta falls off the lady
balmy condor
Ideally with that sort of situation on a boss you’d get the dots and then turn and blast
Cause the energy gain is saucy
With the adds, he probably just wanted to get the most he could out of the vendetta
fervent jasper
thats what i was thinking like "why wouldnt he want 4 DoTs ticking for his vendetta window"
balmy condor
Would be my guess
crimson palm
using a gcd on a target that's not affected by your vendetta is a loss
balmy condor
Idk the situation fully
Yeah you setup before is what I’m saying
Idk if I was unclear on that
umbral rapids
So you’d garrote everything then vendetta and rupture one and tunnel it ?
fervent jasper
yeah on 2 targets I do gar1 gar2 gar1 CT Fok to 4-5 CPs rup1 Fok to 4 or 5 CPs rup2 then vendetta
balmy condor
Yeah
fervent jasper
but idk if thats correct
crimson palm
you can open hivemind logs and see how it's done
umbral rapids
Dumb question probably. Why do you gar 1 twice ?
umbral rapids
Is it that short ?
umbral rapids
Aaaah
fervent jasper
with 3 garrotes and 2 targets you can make 1 of them last longer by refreshing it
umbral rapids
Alright makes sense
crimson palm
it's not only that, but while you garrote the second target the first garrote will tick
fervent jasper
and you want to do gar1 gar2 gar1 instead of gar1 gar1 gar2 or gar1 gar2 gar2 because alternating gives you 1 extra tick on whichever target you extend it on
umbral rapids
You have 3 seconds to still put empowered garrotes right ?
balmy condor
Yeah
crimson palm
so you get extra garrote ticks on your first target
strange python
yes
crimson palm
and still get a full pandemic
umbral rapids
Okok that makes a lot of sense
fervent jasper
So can someone clear up that 2 target rotation for me? was mine correct?
umbral rapids
So 3+ targets you pick 3 priority targets and garrote them ?
fervent jasper
i also wonder if its worth refreshing CT inside of vendetta
fervent jasper
or if while vendetta is up on 1 target in a 2 target encounter maybe mutilate>FoK even with EB
balmy condor
3 dots is enough energy back i think
umbral rapids
Man why is sin so hard to wrap my head around lol
crimson palm
@fervent jasper just open hivemind logs
balmy condor
Yeah
Hive logs know better than I do
Cause my brain don’t work too gud
And I forget a lot of stuff
strange python
but you dont get energie back by CT
fervent jasper
generally its a dps gain to have CT up on 2 targets no matter what
balmy condor
I’m saying it’s more efficient to turn and blast rather than the 4th rupture in a situation
But again
Hivemind logs
Cause there’s a good chance I’m stupid
fervent jasper
but vendetta throws a wrench in it because now a single target, harder hitting global increases in value
balmy condor
Anyway it’s 4am I should maybe consider shutting up lmao y’all have a good one
strange python
when there's an enemy to prioritize you can vendetta on him and keep using garrot and rup on other mobs for the overall damage and energie gain
if you want him to lose the most hp even if you just aoe
quaint vector
good evening fellas, could you please tell me how i can get bigger dps with obvious upgrades? (noob rogue here)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eiZTQmN7Kj1uv2Qsg33uGr
strange python
i just use vendetta out of boss battle if i know that the boss path is still a long way to go
3m is a good cd
strange python
xD
balmy condor
You’ll want to get rid of that alchemist stone, get more expedients, finish the rep for breath3, that’s pretty big, enchant for haste, expedients make that worth more than the crit enchants
As you get more haste, check on exsang and see if that’s getting better than TB
The helmet will need a replacement eventually, but it’s 480 atm so it’ll be fine for now
strange python
i guess you do ALOT of pvp Radagast
fervent jasper
@strange python wouldnt it be a dps loss to use a GCD on vendetta in big AoE?
balmy condor
Mechagon rings are huge too
fervent jasper
when that GCD could go to a FoK
balmy condor
So you should work on getting those
fervent jasper
i could be wrong but I cant imagine vendetta on 1 target would outpace the damage of a big FoK
esp with EB
balmy condor
@quaint vector does that answer it?
strange python
@fervent jasper as i said // for example there are ranged mobs that you SHOULD kill first so your healer and tank have less problems doing their jobs you CAN use that 3m CD but consider how far the way to the boss is
as Whispyr said not using an cd is a damage loss
quaint vector
wow such an imidiate reaction! thanks for feedback fellas!
strange python
but i would use it if i am 1 pull away from boss
fervent jasper
well vendetta isnt a typical CD though it only does anything at all to 1 single target
and if youre in big AoE and you use a global to make 1 target take 30% increased damage
youre not doing anything to the other 7 or 8 mobs
in that GCD
that sounds like a dps less but I havent simmed it
strange python
you deal slightly more damage to the one mob that you should prio
thats the point
or you cast it on an elite
thats what i do
fervent jasper
oh yeah i can see it if everything else will be dead before the vendetta expires
like the rat packs in FH
vendetta it while the smalls die and before it gets pulled into anything else
fervent jasper
if you triple pull in FH youd vendetta something?
strange python
10x mobs i search an mob that cc or aoe damage and vendetta for extra damage
what is FH again :C
bruh
fervent jasper
Freehold?
fervent jasper
im pretty sure ive never pressed vendetta on anything if the pull ws bigger than 3 mobs
unless its 1 huge mob and a ton of smalls thatll die in like 10 seconds or something
like the fear pbi
strange python
y get on the bigboi
fervent jasper
obi*
strange python
but on a mob group that you shouldnt take that serious or worry about
not
just mobs that stun, fear, aoe damage, take control over you
fervent jasper
Can you give me an example? say everything is the same health within a 20% margin and you pulled 8 mobs
when in any dungeon would you press vendetta
steep plover
Damn severe 6 and strikethrough 9 was insane damage @balmy condor
verbal sparrow
What is like the best way to sim overall dmg in dung ? Since it can be quite different and I've heard Dung. Slice is quite scuffed up
pseudo hamlet
4-5 bosses 40 sec I think(?)
shy axle
do you always try to already have a few cps when using vanish to reapply Garrote to do a Gar - finisher - gar or is gar-gar also okay if you have no cps already?
umbral rapids
Making sure I understand. In st, you garrote, mutilate, rupture, vendetta, build CP, rupture, vanish, garrote ?
shut garnet
if you’re mid combat, yes you wanna have enough cps to go gar -> finisher at maxCP -> 2nd gar
umbral rapids
Or toxiv blade after vanish
shut garnet
no no
umbral rapids
Enlighten me
shut garnet
so if you’re playing exang
umbral rapids
Yeah I’l reading the wowhead guide as we speak
shut garnet
there’s a much newer guide
in the pins
that gives you all the info you need on the full exp ss exang build
umbral rapids
Do you recommend using this if I’m just trying to learn the spec ? 😅
shut garnet
nope
umbral rapids
Never played it before, just feel like playing around with it before next push week
shut garnet
umbral rapids
Hey listen
Took me months to gather all the bis
I should have quite a few crit haste pieces and i have 3 ss in extra azerite
shut garnet
the important part is the expedients
shut garnet
obviously it’s amazing to have everything crithaste hastemast hastevers w.e
umbral rapids
Prob not enough I had to save to get 6 strikethrough 
shut garnet
well, still 2 resets to go till exp3 comes out so you might still get there :p
shut garnet
then probably the wowhead and ravenholdt guides + the pins in here are plenty to learn the basics
and questions in here if you got any afterwards
shut garnet
slim estuary
Hi, I am starting to learn the exsang build. I pugged a couple normal bosses to get some logs, can anyone tell me how I could Improve my playstyle? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y3B8CbHFrJqfQ7ga/
strange python
on maut u forgot to cast blood in opener?
crimson palm
your gcb cast needs to be before exsan
low girder
^
strange python
and your first vanish you only casted one garrote
crimson palm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y3B8CbHFrJqfQ7ga/#fight=last&type=casts&source=3&view=timeline looking at this, your vendetta needs to be cast right after the 2nd garrote
you garrote a single time on vanish
high siren
looking at your maut kill,
you should use vendetta + GCB right after the second gar(3rd global).
Also, you should use your BOTE right after exsangue, you used weirdly on this one.
On your first vanish, you only applied gar once, so you didnt benefit from pandemic.
On your second vendetta, you also use it weirdly, you should wait for vanish/bote/exangue to line up
I'm not sure you're using the right pot
sour wraith
Should be using focused resolve or unbridled fury
strange python
also, you didn't pair up your second vendetta on shad with either vanish or exsang
slim estuary
Ok so to summarise:
I need to fix my opener and cast GCB before exsang and mut after vend
I need to use BOTE after exsang
my first vanish I should double garr (after my exsang garr falls off) to benefit from pandemic
I should be holding vend, bote, and exsang to line up on my second window
I need to change my pot
?
umbral rapids
sorry i'm stupid. what's GCB?
low girder
galecaller's
low girder
check the sims on the pot also, at that gear level unbridled may win out even on ST
focused resolve didn't become better for me until i finally picked up my plumage for whatever reason
slim estuary
Ok so everytime I use vanish it should look like van>garr>finisher (rupt if it needs renewing otherwise env)>garr
slim estuary
Always cast something inbetween the garrs, got it 🙂
Should I always hold vend, bote, and exsang to line up?
strange python
and vanish
slim estuary
I need to fix my opener and cast GCB before exsang and mut after vend
I need to use BOTE after exsang
my first vanish I should double garr (after my exsang garr falls off) to benefit from pandemic
I should be holding vend, bote, vanish, and exsang to line up on my second window
I need to change my pot
change how I do vanish
strange python
have u read the guide?
slim estuary
Yes
high siren
yeah, never delay exsang, but delay the big cd's to line up with exsang
brazen perch
what type of sim will you guys recommend using if im simming for mythic nzoth?
slim estuary
Excellent, thanks everyone! I'll work on the tips I've been given 🙂
strange python
Im pretty sure it's just patchwerk 5 minutes @brazen perch
brazen perch
thanks
lethal wren
Hey, I'm new to the game and recently boosted a Rogue to 110, can I use the pinned guide even though I'm just level 111 or would that be dumb? Should I be looking for some type of leveling guide instead?
royal lantern
eh, lvling is lvling, its done in like 3-4hours
probably dont play assa during the lvl phase, its painfull without any stats/gear in general, and you are fine
lethal wren
Can I swap spec how many times I want? And what spec would you recommend
royal lantern
ye you can, and probably outlaw for lvling, what spec you play at max lvl deepens on the content you want too do
umbral rapids
is there any reason to go with 2 nothing personal ?
steel ridge
Depends on the alternative, usually not
late folio
Je
umbral rapids
i'm assuming it's telling me to put mastery sockets because i don't have enough expedients ?
cobalt pelican
it can happen with a lot of expedient, but you don't really have enough to be considered an expedient build even at this point
idk what the eb is doing there and some other stuff kinda messy
umbral rapids
i literally just started putting a build together @cobalt pelican ^^ my outlaw spec is pretty much done haha
cobalt pelican
i see
umbral rapids
i'm actually so confused at it lol
the alternative to that eb is another nothing personal
wet ruin
why is that a problem
umbral rapids
cause i'd have two idk
wet ruin
that is not a problem
cobalt pelican
two traits that do something > one trait that does something and one trait that does nothing half of the time
you shouldn't even really need a sim to tell you that
unless this isn't a raid set
umbral rapids
fair i don't know why i assumed you'd only run one
cobalt pelican
first np gives you the extra energy income on vend that the 2nd won't but
they still both do dam
somber bison
If thats a st set remove that eb tho
wet ruin
you did ask earlier, but it was very vague and without context
umbral rapids
yep fair :)
literally tryind to figure out the spec :D
you fill your finishers with envenom until you get pandemic rupture?
onyx osprey
Question! Just to gather some opinions from the assa community. I'm substituting with my rogue alt on Nzoth for an immunity tonight (running full SS build with 7x Expedient 3 etc), and asks me to run Breath for Synapse damage.
I myself do not see the point of it because running BotE is so powerful for SS (also in combination with Vers trinket from KR).
somber bison
@umbral rapids is that set you linked for single target ?
crimson palm
rogues and synapse dmg KEKW
somber bison
On gorak change to overwhelmimh power and blightborne infusion
crimson palm
hunters solo those
somber bison
Then ad the np on the other piece
vast forum
it has a good stat budget 
it's good for every1 that likes crit, and all 3 rogue specs like crit
umbral rapids
yeah i just didn't know sin likes crit that much ^^
somber bison
@onyx osprey you can snipe alot of things with breath on nzoth tho
umbral rapids
@somber bison do you play clf/breath in st ?
somber bison
Blood or breath usually
onyx osprey
Ye I know, i usually play feral (play breath on that as well) and am on synapse duty
But being on synapses as assa doesnt feel right
somber bison
It isnt
umbral rapids
ok don't hit me if i'm wrong
what about using vision minor ?
so vendetta lines up with blood 🤔
fallow otter
it gets played
somber bison
Sim it
fallow otter
with the old spec
tropic ocean
Vision minor is good for wrathion
But also other bosses depening on your killtimers
wet ruin
is it really though
with vanish being a cooldown you wanna line up with vendetta
before it was good since your vanish wasn't that good that you could use it separately
fleet anchor
Yeah the value of VoP even on Wrathion is probably negatively impacted by an Expedient/SS build since so much of the value of Vendetta is in the Vanish anyway
I think the typical play nowadays for parsing is just to try to cooldown and stay in on his final teleport instead 😛
slate shore
i saw some people who play severe + striketrough , in MM+ with a full exp build , whats the difference ? one give more damage or just playstyle?
cunning grove
Just starting to gear my alt rogue, what should i bonus rolling on my first hc clear?
wooden grotto
Im afraid to cleanse my twisted appendage to put exped rank 1 on my carapace dagger - is this okay to do as sims is telling me to do so. I thought twisted append was good?
fleet anchor
TA is ok, but not great
However
Honestly given that TA scales with ilevel, the Dagger is usually the last thing I'd cleanse until getting to full Expedient
Not sure what your Corruption situation is though
wooden grotto
what if the second one drops?
fleet anchor
If you have enough to go full Expedient then absolutely can cleanse it
wooden grotto
I only run 39 corr. I know I can do more. but I have 40% haste and sims is also putting a 475 rank 3 infinite stars ahead of 475 rank 3 exped which is confusing. So im thinking switching out that 475 and keeping twist append on dag.
paper kelp
IS is sim bait
paper kelp
if it's not a pure single target fight it loses so much value
wooden grotto
yeah. I even ran purify and still says keep it on. literally the pieces I have is 475 - rank 3 IS (142 haste/110mast) and 475 rank 3 exped(149haste/153 mast) and its putting the IS bait ahead.
Thanks @paper kelp and @fleet anchor for your valued help in this. really appreciate it
fleet anchor
Yeah I'd probably just not run with IS unless you absolutely need to
paper kelp
or for the memes
wooden grotto
This corruption is the worst.
paper kelp
at least we have the vendor now
wooden grotto
is there a 'cap' on haste?
im now up to 45% ; 29% crit, 31% mast and 5% vers. dang i lost alot of vers and crit somehow
fleet anchor
999%
😄
But no, not really
Full Expedient setups will typically run upwards of 75% unbuffed Haste
crimson palm
Yeah the value of VoP even on Wrathion is probably negatively impacted by an Expedient/SS build since so much of the value of Vendetta is in the Vanish anyway
@fleet anchor we delay vanish to 1:30 and get it back for the 3:30 burn
so it's sort of like 3 burns
fleet anchor
Kinda splits the difference, although still only get partial value out of the opener that way. I'm not totally sure that actually would come out ahead but I'd need to check the specific setup.
The opener vanish doesn't gain from full Vendetta duration, but it does gain from Lust (and CLF if you are running it)
I do think if you get the timing right, staying in during the cast at 2:00 isn't that bad.
But yeah I know you asked me to look into the delayed Vanish, so I'll take a look at that over the next day or two. I should have time 🙂
crimson palm
The question would be is the lust + clf 30% gain
fleet anchor
Honestly the default fight timing kinda sucks now anyway since 3:30-3:40 is not really ideal
Pushing for the one phase kill is probably ideal for Rogue parsing now
Need to try to talk the guild into commiting to it next week 😄
fleet anchor
Not 100% sure if we have the burst for it, although we are one-phasing Maut so
Would like to try 😄
crimson palm
With enough immunities it's sure possible
young vessel
guys i got a question
could anyone send me weakaura for rupture which shows when its exsanguinated on red and when i should double it on green?
its pretty common
wet ruin
can you sim with 7% attack power buff
high nacelle
i like this one @young vessel https://wago.io/HyiaugniQ
verbal sparrow
Which corruptions are good to make logs ? 🤔 Apphendage ?
tidal gorge
Any thoughts for why Exsang never sims higher than my current build? I've tried changing around all available traits, essences, etc. but it always sims at least 1-2k lower. My thoughts are that I just don't have a good enough on-use trinket or that it's because I'm not willing to go over 39 corruption since we're still progging. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ewapoEDT8xrgT9Da7PEwdC
robust zephyr
For AoE with 3x EB and no SS (haven't gotten a piece with both yet) and running MA, what's the opener with BotE? Is it better to just switch to Subterfuge and use the listed rotation even without SS?
strange python
ye coral isn't the best for exsang @tidal gorge
and you got 0 SS traits atm
if you would link a top gear sim it would be easier
tidal gorge
Figured. And it still sims lower regardless of SS traits (I've tried swapping those in, but I'm at work so don't have access to do a top gear atm). Guess I just need a feather or a GCB since I don't PVP
strange python
and you maybe wanna farm junkyard for dmg from behind one, not sure considering your ring is 475
sick oyster
https://gyazo.com/934a1d56256ec5e3b2ff89c93eed6cb9 aNy HaStE bOys
working on 34% crit now
strange python
why are you working on 34% exactly?
odd heath
32% crit, safe
sick oyster
mind linking your armory / sim @odd heath
@strange python just a meme about a magical crit break point randomly made up
strange python
yes I know I thought u were taking it seriously xD got a bit scared
@tidal gorge https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7FaX33Ku3u93nHnUADTnxN I guess u can play exsang SS
becomes better at shorter fights
and much better on cleave
umbral rapids
Can someone look through a couple logs for me please :D
First boss fights as sin not sure how it went
strange python
link it
strange python
what build u running?
umbral rapids
Something terribly scuffed because I don’t have all the expedients
strange python
Tbh
umbral rapids
3 SS 3 exp
strange python
your opener on xanesh is painful
tidal gorge
Ah, Crimson Tempest. Yeah that's true. Maybe I'll practice it. Hopefully I actually get a gibbering maw this week, like 6-7 for 0 so far 😦
umbral rapids
A couple severes and strikethrough
@strange python that’s the advice i’m looking for :)
strange python
u play subt right?
umbral rapids
Never played sin before today
umbral rapids
lol
strange python
subterfuge
strange python
no
umbral rapids
Alrighty
strange python
and then after your vanish u rupture for what?
you just ruptured
you do rup > vanish > gar > rup > gar
why is that?
and then u envenom at 3 CP
umbral rapids
As I said before, I have no clue
heavy forum
Just heard reckful has passed away. Is this true? Im really sad if it is...
strange python
Not the right channel madstep but I think it's true
umbral rapids
I knew i scuffed a lot of stuff tbh just looking for advice/tips
heavy forum
Sry, wel he was a rogue god
strange python
go to #wow-general 🙂
@umbral rapids I suggest you would read the guide again
To you know what pandemic windows are?
and you don't want to random blood
you hold it for vendetta
Read the guide again
since it's a lot of simple mistakes
and on maut
gar > gar?
umbral rapids
F
lone junco
The RH guide has always been good. But doesn't explain any of the reasoning.
umbral rapids
I’m just looking for tips mate 😅
strange python
like what is this @umbral rapids
lone junco
But. That g g g g erases your entire SS and subterfige.
umbral rapids
Yeah that’s kinda shit
umbral rapids
Jeez
lone junco
You get 3 seconds after vanish. So you could even g g g. But that 4th takes your 80k garrotes ticks and turns them to 6k ticks.
umbral rapids
Just explain it 
strange python
No
tropic ocean
just read guide
strange python
Go read the guide
tropic ocean
this aint private coaching
strange python
But you don't do simple rules
umbral rapids
I messed it up
tropic ocean
your rotation
strange python
that is stated in the guide
tropic ocean
is completely wrong
lone junco
In advance.
tropic ocean
its not only the garrotes
umbral rapids
Jeez I played sin like 2 hours relax 😂
fiery flower
👀
umbral rapids
Alright whatever
strange python
It's same as outlaw rules with CP though
fiery flower
Ausrr do you need a timeout?
tropic ocean
???
umbral rapids
You can decide to be a dick ausrr if you want but that’s not what I’m looking for
umbral rapids
Nah the 4 garrotes make sense
strange python
same as outlaw ye?
umbral rapids
DP being ?
strange python
deeper strategem
umbral rapids
Oh ye
strange python
But as ausrr said I would higly suggest to read a guide
umbral rapids
I think I finished too early in some cass
strange python
since most of these silly mistakes are gone through there
and learn the openers on dummies
helps too
umbral rapids
So you vanish when the empowered garrotes run out pretty much ?
umbral rapids
And ideally during vendetta ?
lone junco
The openers don't explain the context. But a lot of that stuff is probably in the wowhead versions.
strange python
which is not good
umbral rapids
Yeah i couldn’t tell the timing usages
strange python
he needs to learn the openers though noobe
umbral rapids
Takes a lil practice to get used to the timings
umbral rapids
So basically, according to the guide,
strange python
which is why I said go learn openers on dummies
strange python
One or more Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote twice
umbral rapids
Then wait until empowered garrotes run out and vanish ?
umbral rapids
So gar-rup-gar isn’t wrong in vanish
strange python
it is if you already got rup on target that isnt in pandemic
umbral rapids
Ah fair
lone junco
Ok. The concepts are pretty simple.
You get 3 globals per subterfuge.
The first garrote use gives 3 CP and SS
Used 3cp on short rupture.
Second garrote extends the first to max and gives 3 CP
Then mut rupture for a full duration rupture.
This sets up a full length SS garrote and full length rupture.
You are almost ready for exang.
In comes vendetta trinket exang bote.
Big buffs that overlap the 10s exang duration rip of your bleeds.
umbral rapids
Ye for now I use TB
lone junco
Concept is still the same to that point
umbral rapids
But that explanation is great tho
lone junco
TB just pumps a few env while you wait for vanish.
strange python
true
lone junco
When garrotes drop there are 2 slight changes.
Exang you let the last and larger tick hit. Then vanish.
With TB you can vanish in the pandemic or last 6? Sec of garrotes.
lone junco
I just use a finisher then vanish gg. Gives you 5 or 6 CPS. Full duration SS garrotes again.
lone junco
You could vanish g r g. Or vanish g env g.
umbral rapids
Is there any rule/breakpoint for vigor/deeper or just sim?
lone junco
Vigor is energy return.
Haste is a function of energy.
Bleed tick rates by haste push your energy up.
When you have more haste you stop needing vigor.
umbral rapids
Yeah makes sense
lone junco
Or when you can sustain multiple bleeds for more than st return.
umbral rapids
Even with vigor i felt kinda starved on energy at some point
broken fiber
rip reckful
umbral rapids
I mean like 4/5 seconds where i barely use any ability
lone junco
Mashing mutilate and env isn't your damage.
umbral rapids
Yeah I use everything wrong most likely
Only played outlaw since I came back in 8.2.5. Thought i’d give sin a try
lone junco
Maintain all bleeds.
Use opener properly. Use vanish properly.
Then after that TB on cd and fill it with big envenoms.