and cara nzoth azerite
#assassination
fleet anchor
Gain like 2.5k DPS next week for the same thresholds
tropic ocean
naturally lining up good with tom
fleet anchor
Buying an Expedient I this week for my dagger next week I guess
tropic ocean
why 1?
fleet anchor
I have an Expedient II right now which puts me at 30 and 50
tropic ocean
u can run 8x t3 atm
tropic ocean
if u play <60
fleet anchor
I could swap my II for a III this week for 35 but next week I'd be in the same boat
distant lava
oh you're NA ?
distant lava
yeah but he's at 55 rn aus
fleet anchor
Would rather wait for next week and just go up to 39/59
distant lava
next week he can
tropic ocean
no? t1 is 10 corruption?
distant lava
wait no he's at 50 rn
fleet anchor
Yes, but like.. I'd have to replace a II with a III this week to go up to 35/55.. then next week I couldn't add more without down-ranking a III to a II, which I really don't want to do 😛
tropic ocean
but what would you add
fleet anchor
Next week I will go up to 39/59 by adding a I
tropic ocean
or are you solely balancing to be <40
but t2+t1 is the same as t3 dmg wise
ah no
its more
im trolling
fleet anchor
haha
tropic ocean
i already tried to go <80
fleet anchor
🤣
fleet anchor
I try to be good about it
I don't need healers getting mad at me
I'll run 50s for everything other than Ilgynoth and Nzoth mostly then I go down to 39 because I don't like trolling 😛
tropic ocean
trolling
pf 😄
running <40 is trolling
at current state
healers have something to do while afking to not shield nzoth
fleet anchor
lol I mean TfB+explosion has wiped us on Ilgynoth before and parsing on that fight blows anyway so I cba
N'zoth I'd be less concerned about now I guess
I just don't like dealing with it since it's pretty much constant with all the pulsing damage
tropic ocean
think ilgynoth even harder than nzoth now
fleet anchor
I got a halfway decent parse on Ilgy a week or two ago then immediately put it as my "prefer to be out" fight on our rotations sheet lol
tropic ocean
😄
fleet anchor
Hate that fight so much
fleet anchor
lol
tropic ocean
hope we can kill wrathion before intermission on wednesday
fleet anchor
Maybe someday if we stop having a Vita shortage I can con them into letting my Hunter come in to get one
tropic ocean
was close last raid
fleet anchor
But we're on like 3751 Void trinkets and 6 Vitas or something
fleet anchor
We do dispels but it's still possible to instantly wipe due to someone running across bad with a debuff, or enraged adds, etc.
The fight is also still way too long
tropic ocean
y
fleet anchor
And boring
wet ruin
I mean, you can wipe, but the chance of you wiping is so much more smaller
fleet anchor
And MC bugs randomly bugging with people just instantly dying every other week
fleet anchor
Honestly one of the worst fights
wet ruin
and you can run over 40 corruption, save space by people using immune
tropic ocean
yyyy
wet ruin
never had that sort of bug, I don't know
fleet anchor
If you are in a pool when you break MC you almost always die
fleet anchor
I mean sure
But even then you run all over the place, it's easy enough to get broken out even accidentally
wet ruin
and even if you die, you don't wipe the raid
strange python
when on pulltimer do you pop clf koji?
fleet anchor
No that just adds to the annoying aspects
wet ruin
yea, its true, its annoying but still so much easier than the other shit
fleet anchor
But like far too often just some random fucking charge from the big add into someone dying == wipe after 7 minutes, it's really triggering lol
wet ruin
being limited on what you can do, its ani-fun
fleet anchor
@strange python I've just been doing after pull tbh because I don't trust people not to prepull 😛
But if your raid is well behaved, typically on "2" on the timer which gives enough time to restealth without it being too close
wet ruin
not being able to use immunities is kinda shit
strange python
got it, thanks!
fleet anchor
But yeah I just really don't like Ilgynoth
I think it's the only fight I actively dislike in the dungeon
wet ruin
tbf I don't find it annoying at all
tropic ocean
fleet anchor
Think it's just legit trash design
wet ruin
never had real problems with it
dense blaze
Love my raid stunning me in a morass every week, big fan, gotta get cheat on cooldown
fleet anchor
Drest is just so boring lol
wet ruin
I think xanesh is bad
but maybe that is just because I have kicked the ball every single time
fleet anchor
Xanesh is bad too but at least it can be mostly powered down now
So it's a lot better now than it used to be
fleet anchor
I dislike any fight that has the "raid just randomly wipes because reasons" design though
tropic ocean
I dislike fight design where your teammates are more dangerous than the encounter mechanics
fleet anchor
yes lol
tropic ocean
e.g. pre-nerf paranoia
or the classic carapace
immune mindbomb on gate
omegalul
fleet whale
honestly, the main reason i like to run below 40 is just so i don't have purple shit around my character
wet ruin
thats why you do dispells koji, and your raid doesn't randomly wipe 😄
fleet anchor
I mean you still can randomly wipe when stuff goes out
We do dispel strat, it's definitely easier imo
And certainly less risky than on prog
fleet whale
Il'gynoth may be bad
fleet anchor
Still does only take one person having a brainfart to instant-wipe the raid though 😛
fleet whale
but Coven is worse in terms of bad boss design
wet ruin
I don't know, I think we had 1 wipe since we started dispelling or something like that
fleet anchor
Ilgynoth "you know how we trained you that walking quickly through pools on the ground doesn't tick instantly, well GOTCHA" 🤣
wet ruin
and it was a major fuck up I think, and not just a random one
fleet anchor
I didn't think Coven was that bad, but Rogues were one of the few melee that could do OK for it
fleet whale
fight just felt like two raid bosses shoved into one
and the heroic version was harder than the mythic version of the fight
wet ruin
it is supposed to be 😄
fleet whale
there lol
rancid spade
what is that 34% crit ppl talking?
fleet whale
nothing you need to concern yourself with
fleet whale
yeah, since sin could multidot
fleet whale
aff was broken
and the fight was tailor made for aff
but what made assassin nice for the fight was all the defensives, i miss vial being a wall now
fleet anchor
Think I was like sub rank 10 on that pull when it first happened
And still got beat by grey parse Warlock, feels good
fleet whale
like i said affliction was broken in Antorus
wet ruin
no king rules forever 
fleet whale
affliction is still good though, even if they are a bit niche
fleet anchor
Queue youtube video explaining approaching infinity and how "forever" could be interpreted many different ways 😉
strange python
is there an optimal time to cloak during burning cataclysm on wrathion? Usually use it around 1:05 on the timer
fleet anchor
Warlocks may be nerfed at some point before the heat death of the universe
But it won't be now
😛
fleet whale
they weren't all that special in wotlk
fleet whale
when
wet ruin
they were so broken with expedient that their mana was running out
so blizzard reduced mana cost
fleet anchor
They were still pretty strong in Wrath though, just not OP
fleet whale
oh that
wet ruin
imagine being so broken that your mana as a DPS runs out....
fleet anchor
My primary alt was a Destro Warlock in Wrath, it was quite good in general 😛
fleet whale
meh, they were ok. And they also weren't all that special in cata
fleet anchor
that was old school Chaos Bolt
wet ruin
koji, you don't need to say quite good, just saying warlock is enough
fleet anchor
Honestly I actually think Warlocks may be the most consistent DPS class going back to vanilla
tropic ocean
Well afflock opness was a bit scuffed due to eonar fight
fleet whale
every pure dps class has been more or less consistent
fleet anchor
Mages and Rogues have had high and low tiers
fleet whale
still few compared to other specs
fleet anchor
I honestly can't think of any time Warlocks were actively not good
fleet whale
very early legion
fleet anchor
EN possible, yeah. EN was really strange though
fleet whale
while outlaw was op very early legion
fleet anchor
Tuning was so... random in EN with the systems as a mess
tropic ocean
Legion when sub rogue was big
fleet whale
for a patch
tropic ocean
minute of silence
fleet anchor
Depending on legendaries, AP level, etc.
Gold traits
EN felt more dominated by non-spec stuff
fleet whale
yeah, getting prydaz first felt so nice
fleet anchor
Prydaz crew represent!
fleet whale
while some dude got the ravenholdt ring when it was op in EN
fleet anchor
Prydaz -> Cinidaria -> Sephuz were my first three 🤣
wet ruin
all of bfa raids had (several) warlocks being necessary for progress
fleet whale
at least that had a lot of stats
fleet whale
when the Broken shore came out though
it got a little better
and then argus came around and i got the bracers as my last assassin leggo
speaking of legion
Agonizing poison should stay dead forever
tacit charm
Do yall know of the bug where if you get a gutripper proc on you first or second attack you get 3 infinite stars or 3 mindflays or what ever dps corruption you have on?
wet ruin
@fleet anchor did you look into the cooldown sync on lower fight length
thin cargo
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
keen moss
lone junco
@fleet anchor prydaz sephuz here. When others got insig and bracer.
Was funny to see that at that point the very first log with my combo on the bear boss was like rank 5000 parse.
odd nebula
PB > CT still with the exped build? or the extra dot now worth?
lone junco
The combination of DS and Haste seems to have done some work on CT.
Is PB a function of the pbomb hit?
unborn root
Whats the pandemic window on tempest? When do you reapply it?
timid cloud
When do we switch CLF or Blood with the new Exsang build? Or is it just about kill timers / personal preference?
fleet anchor
4.2s with 6CP
unborn root
ty
red plaza
Kill timers and preference Cy
vestal granite
Hey so on Raidbots "quick sim" gives me +2k dps over "top gear"
I assume this has to do with mechagon ring combination?
Has anyone else encountered the same issue
fast fog
@gloomy slate They're the same thing, one is just a longer fight. Though I prefer the 3 mins sims since I mainly do M+
gloomy slate
I am going to stick with 3 SS. I dont trust the 5min sim telling me not to use the 3rd.
fleet anchor
@wet ruin Unfortunately I didn't have time because I got roped into some BS over the weekend but I should have time this week once raid is done 🙂
I mean the 5 min sim doesn't say that. It says they are the same 😛
Top Gear prefers your equipped gear if they are within "sidegrade" just to not encourage people to change everything for no reason
But all things being equal, SS is more flexible
gloomy slate
Yeah true. I just rolled a type II bomber jacket just now anyways. so problem solved. Just use that until carapace chest.
strange python
hey guys what would you suggest for this one ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qvqpqPXLPsKYCeoa2aCDnj
fallow otter
@strange python want to paste bin me your simc?
strange python
ohh sorry what do you mean ?
strange python
ohh okay sure
fallow otter
Then send the link
strange python
I've send you via pm.
fallow otter
Ta checking it out
strange python
thanks
delicate cairn
Is Vita-Charged Titan shard at 445 I level still better to keep over Loaded dice at 460/ Golden Plumage at 465? My other trinket is the Humming Black Dragonscale at 460 i level
delicate cairn
I always always told Vita is king, but at that low level i wasn't sure anymore lol
raw oasis
Anyone doing mythic raden have the WA working before but is no longer?
opal minnow
its in the pins
steep plover
Fuck sims still keep telling me to use dd build over bleed
Dd+hod
Just under 60% haste
slim estuary
Is there a way to detect if a bleed is exsanguinate empowered or garrote stealth empowered in weak auras?
manic pebble
what's the fastest way to find 445 arzerite gear?
I just need 20 titan residuum so I can afford 480 arzerite shoulder piece lol
steep plover
Theres an emissary up with a 445 cache
novel drum
man i got excited i got rank 1 ra-den parse
and then i see raz got second place a full month ago...
fleet anchor
@slim estuary You would have to track it manually, no easy way unfortunately
Our Ra-den kills are too fast now... 😦
I basically have to choose between Vanish cleaving the adds or getting a 2nd Vendetta+Vanish, not enough time for both anymore. It's sad.
fleet anchor
Probably around 3:00 to get full value
I think the adds come up around 0:40
You could maybe pre-Vendetta though
and make 2:50 work
But we're like 2:19-2:30 now
Think cleaving the adds is marginally better but feels bad
I liked it better when we got a 2nd set of adds lol
strange python
How much Crit and Vers you need for bleed build?
fleet anchor
As much happens to be on your gear
drifting cloud
I have 0 vers on gear
fleet anchor
No more no less 🤣
drifting cloud
seems pretty ideal
balmy condor
Yo Koji, has there been any research done on when it’s worth to hold vanish for a 1:30 lineup with vanish and vop minor or just in general
fleet anchor
lol you have a neck!
balmy condor
Is that apl stuff already in
fleet anchor
oh right that's where it's from
I've only got like 2% or something too
whatever that is from
drifting cloud
yeah 2.02% from raden helm and cara chest
balmy condor
Strife minor gives a good chunk of you run that too
fleet anchor
I haven't specifically looked into that vanish delay with VoP no. I'll look at it this week though. It was on my list along with the delay sync stuff on shorter fights but my weekend got scuffed. 😛
balmy condor
Sick thanks for doing the lords work
drifting cloud
today I found out if you play formless void you have to steal the thing 10s before pull
thank god it was a heroic boost
balmy condor
drifting cloud
reading essences is hard
fleet anchor
34%?
Shit I'm overbudget
So close to perfect! 😄
Oh that's my Sanity set
Looks like ON AVERAGE
I have 34%
Seems good
fleet anchor
Yeah, so close to being perfect
Yet so far
I mean, it's funny because it's not like Vers is bad.. I just don't happen to have any lol
balmy condor
Yeah I mean sometimes it be like that
I feel like this tier in general has surprisingly little vers stuff
But idk how true that is
fleet anchor
Does kinda suck, realistically I'd rather have Vers because it's got some added survival benefit but they seem to have stayed away from it
balmy condor
I feel like I’m drowning in vers gear usually
fleet anchor
Trying to find Crit/Vers gear for my Outlaw set it is really rare
fleet anchor
Due to running GCB I'm actually to a point now where Haste isn't even my highest stat weight anymore lol
Vers is actually my highest now, by a tiny amount
Not enough to care about optimizing for
balmy condor
Well yeah with like 0.2% vers that’s not surprising
fleet anchor
yeah I mean that's what basically makes these 475 PvP trinket or Plumage strong
balmy condor
Yeah
fleet anchor
A lot of people running low Vers on their base gear sets
balmy condor
Gives you the vers that you don’t normally have
fleet anchor
Puts the value into the meat of the secondary curve
balmy condor
Yep
Conflict minor same thing
I’m just happy the overall community seems to be accepting variable stat weights a lot more
And accepting natural sways in weighting
fleet anchor
Now that it's easier to custom sim, it's just better
balmy condor
Come a long way from haste>=mast>crit>vers from some dude on icyveins
fleet anchor
Yeah
Static weights were always kinda an illusion really, they've always been more of a broad idea
balmy condor
Yeah
novel drum
i wonder when im going to stop stacking haste. it wont let me drop haste even though i run 80% haste and GCB
balmy condor
But it created the appearance of homogenous character gearing
And that tainted the community pretty hard
“Where’s the bis list”
fleet anchor
I also think Assassination is one of the best balanced specs in terms of secondary ratings in the game
balmy condor
I’m just happy we’re moving away from that and actually understanding stats
normal olive
wait is there a perfect % of stats?
fleet anchor
May not be happy with our overall numbers compared to like Hunters, etc.
novel drum
i mean technically yeah theres a perfect %
balmy condor
There will always be a perfect % of stats
fleet anchor
But I dunno how many specs have historically been able to just be like
"Yeah all 4 stats are essentially equal"
novel drum
yeah most specs either have a dead stat like outlaw and mastery or they just dont care about crit like fire mages
balmy condor
You’ll always run into one setup being better
fleet anchor
Assassination has had pretty good stat parity this xpac in general
novel drum
i feel like vers is our worst stat only because haste crit and mastery all feel so good on sin in the current exsang build
novel drum
but its still GOOD
fleet anchor
Outlaw has terrible Mastery, so that's unfortunate
novel drum
i hate outlaw but if they reworked their mastery i would def. look into enjoying it lmfao
balmy condor
It’s misleading though
fleet anchor
I still think Outlaw's Mastery is just not actually doing what Blizzard thinks it does
Due to the odd quirk with its implementation
And how it converts Mastery value
I bet there is a spreadsheet that shows it being very different internally lol
novel drum
yeah i read the shadowlands alpha testing thing in #wow-general and learned about how it doesnt actually work how it says?
or maybe i read that incorrectly or hes wrong
fleet anchor
Yeah it's always been really strange since they revamped it
novel drum
crazy
fleet anchor
Still curious what happens with Rogue in SL alpha
Haven't gotten any changes for many builds and still have TBD talents, it's kinda RIP lol
And still only like 3 Rogues with alpha invites or something haha
novel drum
i keep having moments where im ready to jump ship but then remember how much fun rogue can be
balmy condor
I’ve done nothing but rogue
novel drum
so im just praying they come out and just knock it outta the park
balmy condor
Started rogue never looked back
fleet anchor
Rogue is definitely a very fun and typically solid class.. but BfA has been rough if only due to lack of attention
fleet anchor
Mainly it concerns me about BfA the lack of development attention since Sephuz left WoW
It's unfortunate
novel drum
yeah any class i look at, their community either has the same problems as us, or is screaming blood murder how shit their class is lol
balmy condor
I think our balance being so reliant on azerite kinda boned us this expac
Like baseline we suck
fleet anchor
I don't really understand the lack of Rogue tuning tweaks, like I feel bad for Sub boyz out there for sure. lol
balmy condor
Fok is trash, mutilate is meh
novel drum
no azerite traits that give us secondaries
fleet anchor
Rogue design philosophy in BfA seemed to be playing by different rules than some specs
And that turned out to be a negative rather than positive thing 😛
novel drum
dude sub is a fucking travesty and the only reason it hasnt gotten attention is because we all went sin and cried
fleet anchor
Sub would have been generally at least slightly fixable just by bumping up the passive a bit
I don't think a spec has been as bad as Sub without getting a single passive bump
WW is bad now too but at least they tried to buff them
lol
fathom swift
sephuz 
fleet anchor
They failed, but they tried
Sub has gotten no attention in BfA
Other than getting nerfed 3 hotfixes in a row
In Uldir
Then sucking for 2 years
😛
It's funny too because Sub was relatively well balanced in alpha/beta
And then they made some last second buffs
Which made it "OP" on launch week, and got overnerfed
Below where it was on beta to begin with
fathom swift
if it was any other tier this expac they prob wouldnt have touched it
when was the last tuning parse they did
fleet anchor
Assassination got lucky they only really nerfed SS but left DD as pretty strong until SS made a comeback with so much Haste
DD was probably overbudget by "Rogue rules" for Azerite budget
Not compared to half the other specs in the game, though
Also pretty crazy to think that BfA originally wasn't envisioned with either Wits or EB
Think how terrible Rogue would have been without that lol
Outlaw would be as dead as Sub without Wits
fleet anchor
lol
Yeah
If SS was as strong as it was at launch, we might actually sim as high as BM Hunters now 😄
faint edge
at about what haste should i start switching to exsang/ crimson
arctic walrus
it'll be reflective in your sim, no real number we can give you
rigid eagle
hey guys
novel drum
i dont totally endorse doing this but i knew i was fully mythic geared out so i just fully committed to the exsang build lmfao
fleet anchor
It's kinda hard to do it piecemeal
rigid eagle
so currently im simming for m+, and when I sim 4 boss patchwerk 40 seconds, 480 TTK+EB is getting shit on by 465 SS + HoD. Then I try dungeon slice, and TTK+EB takes over. Which one do I trust lol
fleet anchor
Like even I knew the exact targets from simming a billion times and navigating my gear transition from random TA/Crit/whatever set to Expedient was a pita
arctic walrus
depends on your other azerite
fleet anchor
Easiest way to do it is probably just to rip the bandaid off, stockpile a ton of currency, buy 9 Expedient IIIs and slap it on everything next time around 🤣
novel drum
you know damn well they thought about making it a random corruption worth 2k echoes
fleet anchor
4 boss patch 40s is just functionally worse than DS imo
It's a massively skewed sim configuration that won't really tell you much
DS already has restealths built in for SS, but setting to 40s duration gives you basically 50% uptime on Vendetta on every "pull" which is going to favor SS a lot
At higher ilevel SS will win in DS too, but in your case I would suspect the 480 piece is correctly being evaluated as better
40s sims in general are just not very useful unless you are, quite literally, simming a 40s boss. (Hello Fel Reaver!)
balmy condor
So here’s a stupid question that might not make sense. How reasonable would it be to extrapolate DS into an actual full dungeon sim, you could have a trash heavy motherlode type fight type and a kings rest fight type.
That would of course make sims gigantic, but I’m thinking maybe it’s possibly to apply top gear smart sim logic to the DS. If I’m simming a dungeon with 4 bosses and 3 packs of 5 and 2 packs of 4 and 4 packs of 3, the first time I sim a pack of 4, it can evaluate that, throw out bad combinations, that way the next pack of 4, it doesn’t have to evaluate it again
fleet anchor
We have some ideas on how to expand on the concept for SL
balmy condor
I’m thinking of a world where simming dungeons with classical routes is possible
fleet anchor
We need to clean up the code first though because DS operates using some kludge that nobody is really happy with
(The invulnerable main target, primarily, which gets magically ignored via a lot of special cases)
Which should open up some more flexibility
We did talk about the idea of segmentation, which is what you're getting at, but that gets into some questionable areas similar to 40s sims of how you generate initial cooldown states
Putting the pulls end to end allows a more natural generation of cooldown alignment problems
balmy condor
How possible would it be to disconnect the cooldown timers from the entire thing
fleet anchor
Of course, that is also why many class APLs don't support DS very well
balmy condor
Just running it on a different level
fleet anchor
Because they don't support non-ideal cooldown sequences 😦
rigid eagle
my 465 SS + HoD is my third SS, does that change anything?
novel drum
just make raidbots sim a 32 minute fight 🤔
fleet anchor
lol
balmy condor
I mean, that’s sorta the idea right
fleet anchor
I mean, I did make some pretty good generalized statistics of the number of pulls between each boss in a dungeon on average
fleet anchor
That's really what DS is supposed to represent
Roughly speaking
Doesn't need to really be the "full" 32 minutes
If the 3-4 segments of a dungeon are, on average, fairly similar
fleet anchor
I do think people tend to overestimate how "accurate" you have to be about the exact pull sizes and durations and stuff
I can tell you from trying a lot of different pull counts and stuff like that
That really evaluations tend to not actually vary too greatly once you get past like.. 3T
There is the stuff that is good at ST and the stuff good at AoE
And the stuff good at AoE is pretty much good at all AoE 😛
balmy condor
Gonna be interesting with covenant
fleet anchor
That will especially be the case for most specs in SL anyway with all the target caps lol
Who cares if it's 8T if you can only hit 4T anyway 🤣
Just turns into a really long 4T fight
balmy condor
I think the interesting this is how it targets that
fleet anchor
In an abstract sense
balmy condor
Does it randomly pick targets
fleet anchor
Mystler would know best, I still have no Alpha invite.. RIP. I assume it's the closest targets but no idea
balmy condor
Like hypothetically if they limit fok to 5, and I hit 10 mobs
The poison spread seems very sketchy to me
fleet anchor
My worry with them leaving FoK uncapped is that means it will probably keep doing pathetic damage lol
balmy condor
It’s probably the easiest though
fleet anchor
It is basically just a poison applicator
balmy condor
Having to AI fok to hit targets to spread debuffs efficiently
Is probably more difficult that just making it do peanut damage
And calling it a day
fleet anchor
yeah they'd have to code something similar to the WW debuff stuff
balmy condor
Kinda yucky
Or like CT
How’s that gonna work
It’s a curious way to try and fix the giga-pull meta
fleet anchor
Yeah I mean CT being uncapped right now probably is easily our primary AoE source
And probably will be very very strong
Maybe too strong tbh
I mean right now we can see that CT actually keeps up with a lot of AoE sources at high target counts
We will be losing our Haste, but they are losing all their targets haha
CT on larger packs unless they change something will pump compared to a lot of the cleave AoE atm
fleet anchor
I'm expecting it to be reduced to 8 or something
Or to implement the scaling they put on Eye Beam
balmy condor
Idk why they’re limiting the target count tbh
A cleaner solution imo would’ve been making it do split damage
fleet anchor
For Eye Beam they put in the square root scaling
balmy condor
Fok does 20k damage
fleet anchor
So someone similar may appear for Rogue
fleet anchor
If they leave it uncapped
balmy condor
But in general, it would be much cleaner
fleet anchor
damage / sqrt(n_targets)
Of course that seems really hard to snapshot properly for CT lol
balmy condor
Yeah
fleet anchor
But maybe
balmy condor
I honestly think “fok does X damage split amongst all enemies hit, increased by 10% for every enemy hit”
Is just better
But target cap and jank scaling it is
fleet anchor
yeah I dunno
the sqrt scaling isn't too bad
It's more similar to old-school classic/vanilla scaling in principle
novel drum
i wonder if there are going to be legendaries for any spec that removes target cappin on their aoe
fleet anchor
than the split trinket scaling in BfA
balmy condor
I doubt it
fleet anchor
I mean I wouldn't be too surprised if something increased the cap
e.g. "Sweeping Strikes hits an additional 2 targets"
or whatever
balmy condor
Yeah increased maybe
But they have to be very careful
Because that’s a recipe for very quick balance breaking
fleet anchor
So far a lot of the legendaries are recycles of old sets/legendaries
balmy condor
I’m getting flashbacks to legion warrior execute scaling
fleet anchor
So we can look to the past a bit to get an idea of things they might try
fleet anchor
My bet is on Insignia of Ravenholdt coming back 😛
fleet anchor
and maybe execute bracers
balmy condor
Execute bracers have to come back for sure
It’s a crowd favorite
There’s no way
Boots might come back imo
Boots/vop/glimpse of clarity
They seem to really like their “your cooldowns don’t line up now, git gud” mechanic
arctic walrus
dd was kind of a spin on insignia imo
balmy condor
I kinda want vanish to not be integral to our dps
Replace it with another cd
Keep the vanish utility
redo the talent row for the new cd
But that’s a pipe dream
viral trail
Yo guys is there any Weakaura I can get or make to make it clear a twisted appendage has spawned?
Like on my pally and DH it shows when I have ineffable truth
I want on my rogue to know when I have mind flay
novel drum
i have no relevant answer, but why?
fallow otter
@viral trail there is a WeakAura for all the corruptions, this is included
viral trail
@fallow otter can I find it on Wagio?
ancient cosmos
what should i cleanse echoing void or mind flay ?
strange python
what do you think about this ? trash or ?
fathom swift
can be good
storm perch
it's bis
red plaza
Good bis sim, annoying in reality.
But I never bothered with it in Nyalotha. Everything feels like a scripted dance nowadays, so probably not that bad
amber quail
orrible in M+ cause the continuos running...usefull in raid ST and all that fight you can root yourself for the duration
strange python
so I think this is clearly trash. I also had 465 verison of this with the socket. since 3 months I almost got notthing from the fucking weekly chest. this situation really makes me quit the game.
loool
fathom swift
is it only mutilate you cant cast without daggers
rancid bobcat
yea
rigid eagle
LOL is this the new meta of no mutilate sin
cunning needle
the actual fuck is this build lmao
rigid eagle
why mutilate when you can become a beyblade porcupine
xDDDD
spray knives everywhere
rancid bobcat
its just outlaw gear with fok azerite
snow hamlet
is it only mutilate you cant cast without daggers
@fathom swift also can’t cast TB
cunning needle
what corr? the 12% crit one?
minor garden
humming black dragonscale 475 vs dead-eye spyglass? dead eye sims higher but arent i supposed to get alot of haste for SS build?
cunning needle
is it just stack crit
rigid eagle
@minor garden idk why ppl sleep on scale man
its legit 60% uptime
i feel like it's basically a 475 version of those main stat + static secondary stat trinkets from WQ
that also gives you fookin wings!
wide linden
is Dagger in the back a good azerite trait?
i simm-ed it and its not that well compared to nothing personal
steep obsidian
rigid eagle
dagger in the back is only ability casts right
so even with the haste exsang build autoing 9000 times a second
you won't get any extra procs of it
no scaling whatsoever
storm perch
so I think this is clearly trash. I also had 465 verison of this with the socket. since 3 months I almost got notthing from the fucking weekly chest. this situation really makes me quit the game.
@strange python what are y talking about? why gcb is trash? I have plumage and gcb, using both of them in nyalota depending on boss, and i would be rly happy getting 475 version of those from weekly
main forge
GCB is trash because... if you activate it during any part of the fight that requires you to move, it becomes pretty much a waste of a cooldown
sullen fossil
GCB is good because Every boss has root phases.. So you can use it freely
main forge
incineration on you? boom wasted it... maut's pool drop on you... wasted... shad'har... you either get the miasma on you, or he does the giant cascade of fuck that drops all around melee so you have to move off it....
Its definitely more difficult to work around than plumage
crimson palm
none of the mechanics you mentioned are issues
patent topaz
GCB has a lot of value for snapshotting exsang haste anyway
I dont have plumage myself, no you cant always get full value of GCB on cd
fathom swift
its definitely not trash
only bosses I have difficulty standing in it for full duration are xanesh and raden if i have to kill orbs
strange python
why do you feel that way
minor garden
dunno, what seems logicaly good gives worse results
no but i know sims are broken for a lot of speccs and builds
strange python
maybe your logic is flawed
minor garden
well, i said one thing
strange python
tfw questioning something is being a dick nowadays
minor garden
the other is that i understood that haste is so good
strange python
cancel me
tropic ocean
probably?
minor garden
to start to scale
harsh sphinx
vast forum
rigid eagle
imagine having 475 trinkets
tropic ocean
????
robust hull
hi there if i drop a ss of some rings could u let me know which 1 would be best to go for? 🙂
shy dust
@arctic walrus 👺
royal veldt
tropic ocean
robust hull
tropic ocean
Sim
rigid eagle
@tropic ocean do we really need to at this point lol
for haste build it's mechagon rings or bust right
and only one of those things are "crit mastery" if you're gearing for m+
tropic ocean
If you want to know which piece out of x pieces is the best, yes you sim
rigid eagle
i wanna let him know about mechagon rings before he puts an exped 3 on one of those rings man
steep plover
Fuck i keep getting dog shit stats from weekly chest
Do i just wait it out and hope for a good piece every week to corrupt
rigid eagle
@steep plover look into leatherworking
steep plover
Ive never ever done it, can u make 475 gear?
rigid eagle
fills up pants and boots slot
you can also spam craft as long as you have the gold to back u up
rigid eagle
depends on rng tbh
for leatherworking you basically just keep making green gear and turning them into expulsom
and then use expulsom to make gear
i dropped about 70k to 80k gold to make one set for m+ and one set for raid
and then a bit under 10k to go from 1 to 175 profession
rigid eagle
compared to that stupid dino mount, it's pocket change lol
but also, there's legit no haste pants from ny'alotha
and the 485 carapace boots are crit/mast
steep plover
Ye i got 470 version of thek i use for m+
bold remnant
everyone just says high haste what is high haste 75-80% ? i'm at 65% for the exsanguinate build
steep plover
I think 60%+ is pretty high
But on avg it seems
The bleed build starts to kick in at 60%+
rigid eagle
the bleed build depends azerites too lol
azerite and trinkets and essences sorta
best to sim to find your own breakpoint
drowsy folio
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
steep plover
Ye im close to 60% and bleed is just behind dd for me
rigid eagle
do you got triple SS?
scarlet sequoia
theres no set amount of haste that you need to play the exsang build, it depends more on other things
rigid eagle
and do you also have a shitload of dd/ttk lol
scarlet sequoia
i played it with less than 40% haste
steep plover
Oh shit 40%
Fuck me
I sim with triple ss and exsang and all that
But dd+ hod and tb still pulls ahead
But my gear is all over the place
rigid eagle
lol i can't believe i get to tell my story again
so basically at one point i dropped haste and somehow made exsang sim better
crimson palm
dd tb was still pulling ahead for us (at lower haste levels)
ss exsan is just much better on shorter fights
steep plover
Ohhh
That makes sense
So if i simd like 3 min fights its possible bleed is a bit better?
tropic ocean
maybe
crimson palm
im not a prophet
steep plover
Idk man
tropic ocean
Maybe you just dont have good enough gear
steep plover
U could be
rigid eagle
wanna link sims lol
steep plover
I started trying to figure out all this shit on my own and fucked myself gear wise, trying to fix it up now after soaking in everyone advice i have a good idea now tho
steep plover
Ye hahaha ive seen it with infexious
I saw u cunts go in on him a bit ago too lmaooo
rigid eagle
lol i feel like i missed out so much hard grinding for strikethrough 3, i wanna catch up xD
sullen pagoda
making up breakpoints so guide looks complex 10/10
tropic ocean
use masterful enchant for top 10 logs
steep plover
Ironically my crit is gna be around that mark when im more hasted up
sullen pagoda
ofc it will when u have too much haste
tropic ocean
Nice then you strong
sullen pagoda
i had 6k haste with one of my gearsets 
rigid eagle
infexious approved!
rigid eagle
@tropic ocean can u imagine if we get SnD back right in prepatch
we'd still have our exped
our auto attack speed will legit crash the game and then crash real life too
tropic ocean
I cant wait to get rid of corruption shit
rigid eagle
cursed items is a cool concept that deserved so much more man
tropic ocean
yeah cool concept
rigid eagle
they did my boi nzoth dirty
sullen pagoda
its a great idea but poorly executed imo
tropic ocean
Noice system
rigid eagle
lol it's like quadruple rng
right stats on gear + right corruption + right rank + actually proc corruption in combat
tropic ocean
now after all content is cleared they fix system
rigid eagle
they still havent fixed azerite gear acquisition tho...
tropic ocean
What for
Game is done
acqusition is not an issue
Item balance is
oh u want eb on ur item hehe take this ttk aswell
😅
rigid eagle
i mean different traits for aoe vs. st is still sorta excusable
but the 20k pricetag on one 480 piece man
that's like a month and a half of caches for one piece
meanwhile ppl can hit 470ilvl over a long weekend
the feeling of having 470/475 everywhere on your person but being stuck with triple 465 azerite cuz u havent sat through enough weekly resets just kinda sucks lol
crimson palm
2/3 bis azerite is from raid
rigid eagle
bis raid gear is from raid, which is super reasonable
tropic ocean
u can use them for m+
rigid eagle
but bis m+ gear...
rigid eagle
lol no EB = crippling depression
tropic ocean
crimson palm
unless you're pushing like 24+ where you'd play outlaw anyway lmao
rigid eagle
even at lower keys not having proper aoe still hinders my performance right
tropic ocean
depends on what u define as performance
rigid eagle
like yea i can play 20s with just SS, but 3EB would make it much easier
tropic ocean
not sure if much
rigid eagle
depends on dung tbh
crimson palm
ur overrating eb
tropic ocean
or more prio/boss
rigid eagle
tyrannical KR/UR versus Fortified FH/ML
sullen pagoda
just play full expedient with 1x eb 3x ss like me
rigid eagle
gap's pretty big
tropic ocean
which gap
rigid eagle
tyrannical KR/UR versus Fortified FH/ML
tropic ocean
which gap
rigid eagle
the difference in what you fight
tropic ocean
????
rigid eagle
how much time u spend on trash vs how much time you spend on bosses
and how many trashes gets pulled at once
deft obsidian
You basically sacrifice a fair bit of aoe in the name of ST. The higher the key the more that delta swings (totally dependant on key/affix)
deft obsidian
Dependant on affix/key yes
tropic ocean
it wont matter
rigid eagle
i mean how big can you even pull in UR lol
deft obsidian
Well I ain't referring to 15-20 keys
sullen pagoda
UR is pretty big pulls
rigid eagle
do they pull the entire room at once b4 second boss for super high keys?
tropic ocean
no
rigid eagle
i feel like that's the only place where you can pull big
tropic ocean
no
crimson palm
u chain pull into swarmers
rigid eagle
yeah but ur not grabbing everything at once right
crimson palm
lol
tropic ocean
think if u learn the dungeons
and pull patterns
it will do more dps for u than adding ebs
deft obsidian
I think the point is that the haste build suffers in an instance that involves chaining, EB picks up slack in that department. Unfortunately you can't really hope for restealths when you'd like them.
tropic ocean
yeah you can
deft obsidian
Tell me more
rigid eagle
point is 3 target is cleaving, but when you get to real aoe with 8 targets or more EB hard outscales right
deft obsidian
You're coming across aggressive on the point over the last few messages, out of curiosity do you push high keys?
I'm getting the vibe you don't
tropic ocean
not sure if that makes something right or wrong
deft obsidian
You're harping on like everyone is referring to 12-15 keys here
rigid eagle
...
tropic ocean
hes playing around 15s range
deft obsidian
I stated above, I was referring to higher the key, haste drops off. You claimed it didn't
tropic ocean
so what should I tell him about keys hes not playing
rigid eagle
I guess 17 + 2 UR is close enough to 15?
crimson palm
haste is fine like in the 20-22 range
crimson palm
anything above there's no fkin chance
yes it does
things live longer => less garrote value
tropic ocean
bosses live longer
cunning needle
position yourself so you can restealth?
@tropic ocean
legit question how to do this. do you just keep a distance away from the next pack?
rigid eagle
haste drops off when you COULD be hitting 20 different targets with EB right
deft obsidian
In a vacuum scenario, it won't but the longer trash lives irrelevant of affix aka high keys 21/22+ garrote value drops once it drops off targets and they ain't dead
tropic ocean
@cunning needle when mobs are about to die and you see your tank is gonna chain next pack
u can just not get into the packs range
drop combat
and stealth
sullen pagoda
yall should just go outlaw like normal human beings 
tropic ocean
x
crimson palm
im only playing outlaw so i can flex my 2x lash to my guild's demon hunters KEKW
tropic ocean
y
deft obsidian
Sin is more engaging at least @sullen pagoda kekw
tropic ocean
@rigid eagle and when do you hit that many things
deft obsidian
Also if I had slappers x2, that might be a start
tropic ocean
🤔
rigid eagle
@tropic ocean pulling like a dozen things is pretty normal right
esp in places like waycrest
or small dinos in atal
tropic ocean
no?
sullen pagoda
i changed spec to outlaw and bonus rolled 3rd slapper just to tilt our dh with only 1 still @crimson palm
rigid eagle
where white trash hang around the gold border ones
tropic ocean
and even then
deft obsidian
@sullen pagoda filth behaviour ❤️ hahaha
tropic ocean
does ur eb overall on maggots in wcm matter?
crimson palm
and the fun fact is i got 2x 485 daggers and 2x chests in 2 carapace kills
so 2 resets im sitting with 2x lash and 2x daggers
double loot both weeks KEKW
sullen pagoda
carapace took me like 10 kills to get both daggers...
rigid eagle
maggots, dogs before the tree thing, all the basic bitch humans before the pig thing, the small stuff around the witches b4 triad
crimson palm
our other rogue is on like 14 rolls atm and still 0
tropic ocean
yeah
deft obsidian
I got my first last week @sullen pagoda I feel like I don't want to be greedy but that 2nd bitch better drop tonight
tropic ocean
what will help your group more on these packs
melting the big mobs
or dpsing the maggots
crimson palm
ccing the maggots alone as outlaw
rigid eagle
damage is damage right?
tropic ocean
yes and no
if you have indefenite kicks, survivability, stuns
y
but we dont
you can see these things pretty well on packs like augur+confessor
or why firemage is so strong in particular
rigid eagle
but fire mages have a shitload of aoe..
rigid eagle
so your build is to focus priority targets
tropic ocean
for the majority of keys, dmg is not the issue to not time a key
rigid eagle
and let your team take care of the rest
tropic ocean
sometimes yes sometimes no
theres no accurate generalized answer
I just do what my group needs
rigid eagle
man you either never pug or you only pug with like 3.5k+ ppl lol
tropic ocean
pugged and adapted to what my group comp needs yes
usually helps in timing keys
and the higher you go the less people will care about your overall dmg when they see you taking care of the hard mobs in the hard packs
rigid eagle
wait how do you know what they need lol
rigid eagle
i've seen 2k io BM hunters do 50k overall dps lmao
tropic ocean
so...?
rigid eagle
so if i also don't bring aoe the key's doomed...
rigid eagle
yeah, and I bet their ilvl isn't even that far apart
tropic ocean
but thats very flawed logic, because you can't know how a player performs before the dungeon
rigid eagle
wait but that's exactly my point
tropic ocean
so you can only base your decision of class
and affix/key
which usually works out
rigid eagle
i can't possibly tell what my team is gonna need when I don't know if they'll int me lol
rigid eagle
i mean you can generally tell how a group does by the time the first boss dies
tropic ocean
doubt
rigid eagle
good time to decide whether u wanna bail or stay
rigid eagle
lol even if they can get their shit together after wiping 3 times to trash b4 the first boss
im not gonna give them the benefit of the doubt, not after the 3 wipes
lmfao
crimson palm
seems like you've a superiority complex
shut garnet
pugging m+ is surprisingly similar to any elo ladder in most games
tropic ocean
because you know, by playing good, you climb
shut garnet
if you say you belong higher but u dont actually get there
you probably need to fix some stuff xd
rigid eagle
i mean i got like 500 points over like a long weekend
tropic ocean
and you want to prove what with that?
rigid eagle
do you really have to ask?
tropic ocean
???
idk what you're saying
but if everyone ints your keys and you are good
u wouldnt choke at ur rating
thats all
because if u play good
only 4 others can be bad
which is superior to 5 ppl being bad
🤷
shut garnet
why dont you just find a team to play with and then you don’t pug at all?