okay, so i gotta still try and get it. is it better to use that than a heroic drest?
#assassination
fleet anchor
Yeah just sim it. Probably would be better if I were to guess
quasi pewter
also you can sim things you dont have with gear compare
timid coral
specifically for beach pull in TD, is it viable to play raden weapon and/or folly instead of daggers?
fleet anchor
But yeah like Dragonscale RPPM is 3x Vita but Vita's buff is 3.8x Dragonscale's (plus the party buff) so it's a little strange.
Also the 240 Haste passive is generally the same or better than 723 Agility passive at typical stat weight values, and especially at high Expedient levels
vestal stump
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/29tzwF29dtYKEJdt7F6Gc Running assassination rogue for M+, what would you guys say are going to be the biggest places to improve? I know my essences aren't the best, working on upgrading them and getting Blood of the Enemy, and also trying to better itemize myself.
balmy condor
getting rid of the NP for more EB, running CT
corruptions and general gear stuff obviously
but you're aware of those things
spark cloud
sorry was in a pvp brawl, but cool i didnt know you could sim gear you dont have, that changes the game lol thank you
vestal stump
Got it! Will get rid of NP and throw more EB on, I'm trying to work on getting more of those and when I sim CT it lowers my dps but not by very much; does it have something to do with my corruptions/traits?
balmy condor
probably not enough gear/corruption
CT is generally better in m+ even if it sims lower
because PB is a small aoe and tanks like moving mobs around
so you're not going to get huge value from it to begin with
vestal stump
Got it! I'll go ahead and switch that over, then work on getting more EB for my Azerite traits
south isle
do we have bis list?
balmy condor
mecha rings, raden helm, gorak shoulders, nzoth chest, vita/plumage
cara daggers
corruptions in pins
south isle
❤️
balmy condor
mostly just stack haste 5head
balmy condor
if behind then haste
is biS
workshop is the one that drops the haste one i'm pretty sure
strange python
ahh
wet ruin
has anyone done some research on TW, is assa even better than outlaw with the wrists etc.
balmy condor
then no
no one has optimized tw
I think people just run wrists on sin and call it a day
strange python
go outlaw, equip glaives
wet ruin
don't have glaives. and I would assume slappers are better though
balmy condor
¯_(ツ)_/¯
strange python
i dont think people care enough to theorycraft something that's only around rarely
balmy condor
it's just not worth theorycrafting
you would need to scale all the values down
for each timewalking
and enable old items within the current APL restrictions
its just a headache that isn't worth it when a group of washed up heroic raiders streamroll everything
balmy condor
that's even more yikes imo
sims in general are made to have data to prove or disprove those kinds of discussions
what works for someone might not work for other people
wet ruin
ok mate, I know what sims are for, and I am pretty sure people theorycraft in other ways for TW
frank olive
what is the best build to boost visions?
fallow breach
outlaw 
frank olive
outlaw sucks
dire spoke
tropic ocean
outlaw for boosting visions 
lone junco
is sin running DS for keys these days?
tropic ocean
in kr/ws y
lone junco
3ss 3eb with ds?
tropic ocean
no
lone junco
thats what I was thinking
tropic ocean
cuz already starving
lone junco
our dh is dabbling in rogue, gotta keep him straight
tropic ocean
ds with raid build in kr/ws or high tyran temple
but with eb/ss usually stacking crit vers
so heavily starved on energy in non aoe
dunno if u can even get 3 garrotes out with ds and non haste build
vast forum
yes you can
it's 135 energy in 3 seconds
120 + 10/sec is default with 0 haste
so you have 140 energy AT LEAST for the first 3 garrotes (assuming you start with full energy)
also i think DS is just straight up better for m+
steep plover
boys for more boss focused/not many big mob dungeons what do youse reckon its better to run? Still ss+eb, or raid build, or something inbetween?
vast forum
regardless of dungeon
steep plover
Like kr, ws etc
lethal coral
Is this ideal use of corruption and Azerite traits for Mythic+? I use it for Hivemind and Carapace: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wDqJENYB2SQPGQPd2ydcq8
steep plover
From what i know, for dungeons with big packs where u want big aoe and cleave, ss+eb and stack crit (severes and strikethroughs)
And blood major
balmy condor
I don't see more than 6 on people like seli usually
quasi pewter
no dude its exactly 5 no more
steep plover
Do youse use that for cara? Ive always still gone st focus
quasi pewter
vast forum
exactly 3.7
tropic ocean
and rest strike
balmy condor
severe 2?
steep plover
U provs just want enoigh severe for a good 40-50% crit no?
tropic ocean
but I have full socketed crit/vers crit/mastery gear
but 6 severe idk
unless u rock haste mastery gear
balmy condor
like a single 15 corrupt severe?
quasi pewter
maybe he meant
tropic ocean
2x severe 3
balmy condor
that's 6
quasi pewter
6 severe
balmy condor
balmy condor
for sure
steep plover
How much crit do u run?
tropic ocean
39% base or so
balmy condor
yeah same here
steep plover
Im at 45% rip
steep plover
I started focusing on raid gear im lpst for m+
I only have 2 strikethroughs saved up waiting for good gear
Yall reckon i should try and grind for 1 more or save and try get more severes?
I have lile 45% crit incl severes
steep plover
I dont know how trustworthy sims are for m+ thats the thing 😭😭
tropic ocean
u need more strikethroughs than severes
drifting cosmos
It's good when you don't have enough base crit
balmy condor
I have def enough
frosty kettle
crimson tempest is a must have for visions right?
drifting cosmos
Not really
When youre geared enough things just die before ticks finish
Then you'd prefer pb or hb
frosty kettle
if you are not as geared which one of the last talents is recommended?
drifting cosmos
But yea ct is good when you're under gear
frosty kettle
with undergeared i mean cloak lvl 7 😄
drifting cosmos
Exgsan and ct
Other than those 2 it's pretty much m+ setup
Swap to np ss traits for boss
frosty kettle
sorry but what does np ss mean?
strange python
np = nothing personal, ss = shrouded suffocation; azerite triats
frosty kettle
ah thank you!
bleak spoke
Is there mathematically a variation of deadly momentum and severe that gives more crit that same amount of severe in corruption
Cuz the uptime is consistent right
drifting cosmos
It needs time to ramp up
It shows you high uptime but doesn't taking into account of ramp up time but severe is consistent
sturdy mesa
Ayo just wanna say thanks to this community for the past month i've managed to improve my dps/logs significantly with everyones help
balmy condor
glad to hear it
lethal pawn
since i missed the rank 3 expedient is it better to get r2 for now until its rank 3 week again or should i just wait?
balmy condor
depends how bad you need it and how much you're farming
lethal pawn
i have 3 r3 now and 1 r2 and 10k echos
balmy condor
that doesn't answer either question sadly
eternal furnace
Hi guys - newish yo rogue and trying to learn - couldn’t find in pins so sorry for noob question - what essences for keys? I’m running breath, lucid, vision and conflict currently
rigid eagle
i think iris minor works too right
eternal furnace
My crit stat is low - still bote major?
balmy condor
even more the reason tbh
summer cedar
About to start N'zoth prog tomorrow. Is it necessary to hard CC the neurons or will they stay small with dots?
leaden lichen
hard cc keeps it from growing in the first place
smoky pecan
anyone check out the new bleed build for raiding?
smoky pecan
infexious made a video about it
leaden lichen
nah i dont have 34% crit yet
harsh sphinx
leaden lichen
fleet harness
Guys, is Crimson Tempest better than Poison Bomb for dungeons and raids?
crimson palm
About to start N'zoth prog tomorrow. Is it necessary to hard CC the neurons or will they stay small with dots?
@summer cedar you need to cc before cast finishes to prevent growth
arctic walrus
yeah we copy infexious he figures it all out for us
smoky pecan
I never knew about the pandemic thing
sullen pagoda
crimson palm
My sources tell me that he's doing a PhD on the discovery of the 34% crit threshold and should be a nobel laureate this year
balmy condor
34% crat threshold*
strange python
Sim it bro
topaz rock
Is assassin top for this patch?
balmy condor
outlaw's better in m+
spark cloud
so 40% crit ideally for us m+ guys, but stat after that im torn between mastery or haste. i love the feel of high haste but it makes more sense to me to stack mastery after crit. thoughts?
drifting cosmos
Where you get this 40 percent from
spark cloud
a verdict myself and a few others came to a few days ago
drifting cosmos
And I think you missed vers there
arctic walrus
after 40 you can go for vers/mast
night vale
i mean, for m+ with echoing blades, im aiming for 60% crit, with 2 severes and the rest strikethrough. Seems good to me
arctic walrus
why would it change "these days"
and no it's 40% even post corruption/severe stack
spark cloud
but once i hit 40% crit just dont go past it, then stack verse OR mastery?
drifting cosmos
Can't really argue tho, ppl play different setup in different dgn with different comp
By these days I mean access to vendors makes it really easy to go pass 50
Also depends on what gears are available to you
night vale
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/zuljin/Ryfie
Very true! depends on comp and all sorts.
The above guy is rank 1 raiderio Sin rogue, thats what he plays if you want a baseline of what others are playing
drifting cosmos
And yea personally I'd go for 55-60
tiny finch
ok so we just started carapace, should i spam FOK and Crimson tempest on adds or just keep Crimson tempest bleed refreshing it at the end?
novel drum
if you want to do the good thing for the guild, just keep CT up on boss and if you end up dotting the adds, thats a bonus, but theyre not going to survive long enough for you to gain much benefit from it
maybe do it once when a ton of adds spawn
strange lichen
So with the mech rings, the one with the three ability proc is still good right? I see a lot of post on the behind the mob proc?
rancid bobcat
it's fine
fleet whale
yeah, it's ok. It's just that the other one is far easier to manage
dull osprey
Okay, new to exang build. When I'm approaching exang off cd: if my bleeds are not above the minimums in the guide (>15 for garr and >25 for rupt) do I refresh them immediately bore exang, pop exang on cd with a shorter duration bleed, or hold exang?
fathom swift
Refresh before exsang
dull osprey
gotcha. explains the wowanalyzer
patent topaz
Wowanalyzer isnt updated. I think apl refreshes before exsang no matter what
opaque tree
When I sim my character and I use the Optimal Raid option.. at the end of my sim, wehre does it show my food and potion that it's simming with?
I cannot seem to find it anywhere
What potion & food do you guys sim with?
fathom swift
You can check in advanced options before you sim
deep lily
Is strikethrough worth it for the AOE build or stick with just Crit?
viral aurora
If you play with 2-3 Echoings, Strikethrough is def worth it I would say.
deep lily
that was my assumption as well not sure how to test it on raidbots for that
vestal dune
When checking the sample sequence from the apl is it possible to see the bleed duration on the target somehow?
fathom swift
You can math it out without too much difficulty
mighty elm
mighty dragon
Quick question, can you blind the neurons on mythic nzoth to stop them growing before the cast like a locks banish for example?
quartz depot
Yes
mighty dragon
Cheers
quartz depot
Can kidney as well
cosmic berry
guys does anyone here managed to do the "Waht does this button do" achiev in "Hero of pandaria" solo?
i cant manage to get to the other gem quick enough with sprint
worldly iron
vestal dune
I am seeing the sample sequence using 4 cp ruptures while still having a few seconds left of rupture to then use a 6cp rupture with 0 pandemic before an exsanguinate
Wouldn't a 6 cp rupture instead of a 4cp one be a dps gain?
for the 2nd exsanguinate
rancid bobcat
it's setting up max duration rupture for exsang
vestal dune
Isn't it doing the opposite by using a 6cp rupture with 1 sec ~ rupture left?
unless the rupture durations I am checking on wowhead are wrong
fathom swift
Its not 1 second left, its hard to tell but it does a 3p rupture at like 23s that pandemics onto the 4p rupture later that then also pandemics
fathom swift
Basically it has almost a full rupture for 2nd exsang its like 35s
Isnt 3p rupture 16s
vestal dune
wowhead is telling me it's 12 secs
fuck, it's the wow classic page
alright, forget everything I said
fathom swift
I just remember it as 4n + 4
vestal dune
Yeah, the duration seemed kinda low, but didn't pay much attention to it :/
balmy condor
Ye the logic will full pandemic garrote->6cp rupture->exsang every time
vestal dune
If you are about to get exsanguinate but still have around 25 secs of rupture, what would be the play?
Hold the exsanguinate for about 5 secs and refresh or just insta exsan?
balmy condor
You would 6cp rupture
Ideally you wouldn’t get into the situation in the first place
Because you would plan ahead for that
warm parcel
Simple rule for new exsanger
Always cast full cp rup before exsang
Start fiddling with rest later
balmy condor
Ye
vestal dune
Yeah, on fights like shadar it's easy to plan ahead, but when the fight is a bit chaotic and there are targets switch, I start getting doubts
balmy condor
That’s just practiced tbh
vestal dune
I was delaying the exsan a bit on those cases so I wouldn't lose too much duration from ruptures
balmy condor
I zone out for entire minutes sometimes and the muscle memory kicks in
vestal dune
as long as I was getting the exsan right with the vendetta
And would not delay +10 secs
balmy condor
Well you need to delay the vendetta but yeah
The longer you delay on the filler exsangs, the longer you delay your full combo
Which is a little yikes
That’s where the planning ahead comes in
Cause you’re waiting on exsang anyway for the lineup
vestal dune
Ye, I supose as long as I do not lose 1 exsan from delaying it's worth
or 1 vendetta
warm parcel
Reminder that effects of ven and exs last longer than a global
So you might not lose a whole cast
But a part
balmy condor
^
Nothing is more frustrating than getting your lineup ready and you look at the timetokill only to see 10seconds
warm parcel
Doesnt waem your mind does it
rancid bobcat
wtf is waem
balmy condor
it stands for wEakest stRoke
rain inlet
Does anyone happen to have the Shroud WA that counts out loud how many seconds left on shroud?
quasi pewter
rain inlet
Thanks man!
red turtle
Hey, I got my 2nd Carapace Dagger this week and i did not cleansed any of them. I simed myself with Mindflay and with exp3 and it is +-50dps. Is there a recomendation or something like that? Like play Exp. over Mindflay because less rng? 2 Mindflays are fine with rest Exp.?
I just dont want so cleanse something that i might need later. (Raid is clear so no progress gear needed)
strange python
mind flay is pure RNG and doesnt scale with haste
balmy condor
50 dps is within margin of error
And mind flay is ridiculously inconsistent
Don’t bother
red turtle
Okay. thanks
vast forum
mind flays are good if you ever wanna get good parses while playing like shit
clever niche
Could anyone talk me through the rationale of using honed mind over racing pulse, is it due to uptime or is the haste from gear/traits/essences cause diminishing returns? I'm running top gear sims with honed mind vs racing pulse and pulse is ahead (not by much though)
vast forum
honed mind and racing pulse are both good but at highest gear levels, honed mind pulls a bit ahead
the difference isn't huge
clever niche
makes sense, it's about 700-1000 dps difference on my report so it makes sense
rain inlet
What's the best alternative to the Mythic Raden Helm when it comes to Single-target dps?
balmy condor
The azerite vendor has cowl of fluid machinations, it’s NP/SS so that’s kinda meh but it’s 480
vast forum
there is no real good alternative tbh
vast forum
NP is not very good for exsang build
balmy condor
And maybe engi goggles if you’re janky
vast forum
and no OP on it
balmy condor
I mean, the NP isn’t good
distant lava
maybe irontide ?
balmy condor
But it’s 480 SS and the NP still does damage
Compared to a 465 raden it’s actually pretty comparable
distant lava
probably makes you drop CT tho but if it's an upgrade 
balmy condor
What’s iron tide have
balmy condor
Yeah that might be something
zinc zealot
scarlet sequoia
crimson palm
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
Jump
Or you can just search the channel
tropic ocean
moroes benched
rain inlet
Aye, thanks for the recommendations for Helm alternatives.
But just wondering, would you guys prioritise Heart of Darkness or SS more?
rain inlet
Ahh.. okay okay, Thanks loads!
eternal furnace
What’s the default essences and talents for raiding with sin? I know PvP/mythic+ build just wondered if there’s is much difference for raiding
fading wigeon
The icy vein and ravenholdt guides have some good details on it. Links are in the pins.
atomic willow
at what % of crit would you stop stacking severe and put strikethrough on the rest....sitting around 45% now
for M+
strange python
what are the secondary stat prioties again > > >
haste>master>crit>verse?
for pve
plain thistle
strange python
In the box today. Worth? 🤔
echo jay
would anyone be able to help me with a sim for the expedient/CT build if I give you my simc data? just trying to see if its better or not
tropic ocean
whats the issue with simming it yourself?
echo jay
honestly, it's confusing the hell out of me lol. like not sure what I should switch to try and find if I have the haste or not to do it. feel like I need more than 16mil to find out
tropic ocean
well you do several sims for that
first you try out your azerite/gear combinations
once u found your best
you do next sim with enchants/gems
then you have what you need to use
echo jay
yes
tropic ocean
so yeah
echo jay
ok tyty
crimson palm
huh?
echo jay
?
gray hazel
would it bw worth going from 9/9 GW to 1/2 GW and 1/2 t3 Exped? or is Exped only worth if you can be 9/9?
rigid walrus
if sims are telling me to regem and socket everything crit and drop CT despite having all expeds do i listen to it
sturdy python
How many expedients is all
balmy condor
how much is the gain tho
cause if you boutta consider a like 350 dps gain to resocket rechant everything just to drop CT
that's a yikes
rigid walrus
yeah its about 2k from current equipped ill probs just leave it
cinder nymph
Are there any “tips and tricks” notes for each boss in raid?
After looking at logs you can cloak the Wrathion AOE at exactly 67 seconds and be fine. Stuff like that?
rigid walrus
actually nvm i just realised i cant read
naive lynx
Hey! I'm sorry this question might be boring for some of you but I'm just thinking about starting an assasin rogue and I was wondering how much haste ( i know 32%crit ) is required to play the "haste" build at low level?
naive lynx
from Infexious
naive lynx
is that wrong?
harsh sphinx
🤔
quasi pewter
yes
naive lynx
i don't know :/ sorry
quasi pewter
propably not the whole guide
naive lynx
So can you correct my beliefs?
balmy condor
god damnit infexious and his crit memes
quasi pewter
idk what you mean with low level
naive lynx
Im thinking about normal raid for now, how much haste do I need?
balmy condor
back at it again
naive lynx
to keep up the bleedings?
balmy condor
wait what
quasi pewter
the exsang build is rly only better after like 40-50% haste
naive lynx
am I being stupid? D:
balmy condor
you keep up the bleeds by hitting the button
quasi pewter
iirc
rigid walrus
start saving up your echoes to buy expedient 3s and put it on your good gear
naive lynx
Yea yea, i know that 😄
so I should be looking for the most amount of haste I can possibly get in every slot?
tropic ocean
Only trust infexious if you can get INSANE gear like him
naive lynx
no way man 😄
crimson palm
you need a rank 6 maut log first
balmy condor
only trust infexious if you're infexious tbh
naive lynx
so what's the main thing I should be focusing on in the rotation?
u guys have any links I can use for that?
naive lynx
ah yea alright 😄
paper vector
if i wanna know which stat should i use for sockets i have to sim it or its a build/guide thing?
tropic ocean
Damn
naive lynx
😄 haha didn't know he was kind of a meme
little root
shit i went to 34.32% and now i do 0 dps 😭 such a hard game
balmy condor
he popularizes the builds, which is cool, cause its helping the community
paper vector
@balmy condor ty
balmy condor
but we just wish he didn't have weird misinformation in his videos
cause then people show up from his youtube and ask silly questions like crit breakpoints that don't exist
and we're just out here like huh?
naive lynx
the first garotte in literally almost every rotation should be used while vanished right?
or in stealth*
balmy condor
if you're playing subt, yes
balmy condor
then you shouldn't use garrote first
tropic ocean
get confident with the belt first
naive lynx
then what? im watching the pinned rotation guide
not that exsanguinate one
for leveling
balmy condor
that seems like a subt thing
tropic ocean
Ye
balmy condor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
naive lynx
hehe thanks
balmy condor
pick whichever your heart desires
tropic ocean
The accent is so hard to understand
balmy condor
I find it entertaining tbh I know a lot of people hate it
tropic ocean
but does he say that focused resolve gives crit dmg
balmy condor
I kinda like it
I just don't like the weird misinformation that seemingly comes from nowhere
balmy condor
yeah that's pretty 
the whole meme could've been avoided if it were presented as an option or how he's running it, but a lot of it just felt really "this is how you do it"
balmy condor
from the get go just we run CT and we drop lucid minor
tropic ocean
And talks like he invented exsang build
balmy condor
and thats it
and most of his viewers aren't at the level where they can do that probably
cause if they're watching a youtube video to learn the build, they're not really bleeding edge
tropic ocean
I mean
balmy condor
oh the tags are hilarious
gotta game the algorithm
and yeah the guides are okay
but its frustrating cause its the same thing as the written guide
but worse
vapid scarab
this one is TD 3 and GW 4
vapid scarab
because it's what i have
quasi pewter
gw doesnt scale in aoe so its not very good
late helm
At what haste % do ppl start gemming for other secondaries?
vapid scarab
im only losing 2 TD ranks though for much better stats
tropic ocean
Idk im at 72% unbuffed
quasi pewter
there is no particular %
tropic ocean
And I still gem haste
quasi pewter
just when other gems sim better in top gear
can be different for different ppl because not everyone has the exact same pieces
propably not before 70% though
late helm
Yah cause i see in logs my garrote average dmg is quite a bit less than others and i wonder if thats cause my mastery is only 33%
ebon patio
Hi everyone! I need some help to know were to aim right now. Besides getting more sockets. Should I change to exha build? I would need to get another head with SS for that right? Thanks in advance!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dwFTtXPDKjjYMTxoP5Em8n
balmy condor
you should get bote 3
ebon patio
cries in battlegrounds
balmy condor
you also would probably need to get a shoulder as well like goraks
or the clockwork one would work too
tribal obsidian
Drop MA probably
balmy condor
eh, single target probably won't do much for him
the whole TB/DD stuff really likes MA
fleet whale
yeah, and honestly i know it sims higher eventually, but DD and TB just play better with MA
i know, "feelscraft" is forbidden here
balmy condor
It'll take a bit though
like if you're going hard into the poison build and you're geared for it
its take a while for subt to actually catch up
ebon patio
Hmmm. I see
balmy condor
But if you want to go the exsang build, you’ll need to get SS helm and shoulders
You’re pretty geared for poison, so it’s gonna take more than a half-ass SS to beat it
balmy condor
The shoulders are 465 though right
ebon patio
Yeah, indeed
balmy condor
get new azerite, bump that corruption resistance, put exped corrupts on your gear, get breath rank 3
finish the mecha ring set
zinc vigil
Hey guys, I've been struggling to get my rogue mythic raid ready. I've been really struggling to put up some decent numbers and I can't seem to identify the problem? Can some of you big brains help pick apart my gear and see if it's somewhere there? I've scoured the guides but I can't seem to pinpoint the issue. Thanks fellow rogues!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mAo6roYmteLwW3vmWbhCoK
zinc vigil
it seems that way man...
balmy condor
you got 2 SS traits, good start to exsang, but you're running TB, not sure if exsang is an up yet
your helmet has scent on it, not great tbh
you're running IS3, that's one of the big ones imo
IS is super RNG and drops off hard in fights with more than 1 target
It'll sim great, but it's not going to do you a lot of favors if you're looking to actually raid prog
surging vitality on your ring isn't great either
zinc vigil
I'll start w/ that, I have a plethora of rings to replace it, that's just what simmed best for me
steep obsidian
the ring is fine just cleanse it
balmy condor
yeah
steep obsidian
crit haste is good
balmy condor
until you get the mecha set
zinc vigil
beath im working on now, as well as lucid
i've read theres certain stats you want to reach before switching to exsang is their merit to that or just when i get the third SS?
zinc vigil
sitting at 32 now
balmy condor
thats me
drowsy estuary
to raid
balmy condor
vita + plumage/pvp on use vers/galecallers/dragonscale
plumage and the pvp on use are best
galecallers is good
dragonscale is ez no button
balmy condor
twisted is mega rng
drowsy estuary
should i use while im not buying exped III?:
drowsy estuary
thanks
balmy condor
but TA is yucky imo
drowsy estuary
and enchants and gems full haste?
zinc vigil
will you always run Crimson Tempest with Exsang, just got my third SS
zinc vigil
ok thank you
slim pebble
I'm at 50% haste now and exang and crimson tempest are now pulling ahead
balmy condor
seems normal
fleet whale
why can't torment of the jar be better or even the void trinket not be stupid
so i can stop using a 430 coral
balmy condor
Plumage, galecallers, and even harlans is better most likely
civic hatch
whats the best way to sim for nzoth?
balmy condor
patchwerk
civic hatch
5min?
mellow pier
balmy condor
yeah if the rest of your group can handle the aoe
we're ST pumpers
sin rogue life
civic hatch
im playing exsang build with a DD/HOD chest but wondering if a SS/NP chest would be better for the extra burst on nzoth even though it sims less
sweet rampart
random question, can i leave the starting vision room before i talk to wrathion and start it? And not loose my vessel?
civic hatch
yes
sweet rampart
i just did a 3 mask with my friend, but he didn't get the ability to activate the last 2 masks, and we are now confused
do you ahve to do it solo?
balmy condor
2 of the masks come from stormwind
sweet rampart
so in order to do a 5 mask on org, you need to at least complete a 2 mask from stormwind?
distant lava
to unlock masks
civic hatch
how much less
@balmy condor it sims around 663 less dps, reckon its worth?
balmy condor
take the SS
distant lava
each area gives you a specific mask
sweet rampart
@distant lava including SW right? Cause we just full cleared a 3 mask just fine, but that was ORG
distant lava
yeah
you have 2 masks in org
and 2 masks in SW
so you can't unlock 5 masks in only 1 week
sweet rampart
so what if I have 5 masks available? If i activate 4 or 5, does a 470 piece of gear drop for him as well? Or does he need the 5 masks too?
oak hinge
Gorak tul’s mantle is one of the best shoulders for the Exsanguinate build right?
oak hinge
Nice! I got it right now from the random shoulder 😄
civic hatch
600 dps is pretty much nothing
@balmy condor ok, what if i sims 1063 dps less?
vernal canyon
hey guys, do i need to chance something on the sim for the exsanguinate build or i just run it normally?
balmy condor
wdym "chance" something
balmy condor
not sure what you're referring to change
but you just equip the exsang gear and the right talents
the fight settings shouldn't change
vernal canyon
oh ok
i though there was something like adding an option or something on the sim to get the correct results from the exsanguinate build
vernal canyon
thanks
balmy condor
oh pog
rancid bobcat
i think thats full 475/485 now
ilvl parse here i come
well
i need to buy another socket for my 2nd cara dagger
nvm damn the ilvl bracket is 481-483
how do i get to 484
that requires nzoth ring rip
hmm or nzoth shoulder
quasi pewter
rancid bobcat
neither are ideal
cant hit 485 without neck levels
the dream is dead
more azerite from pvp chest perfect
only 5 logs with people in 484 ilvl bracket
tropic ocean
@rancid bobcat get tank trinket traded
rancid bobcat
steady oasis
Dum question.
Dumb holy shit
I'm reading all of the assass guides and being told to stack crit, (skimming, truthfully), but anyone i speak to that plays rogue at higher level says go haste stack with expedients . Is there a middle ground, or which way should i be leaning? will link armory for gear, just pls no roast, itts bad kekw
astral leaf
Crit for m+, haste for ST
Haste becomes less valuable when you can have bleeds on multiple targets for energy
strange python
@rancid bobcat thats fucking dirty. Gz
vapid dock
you guys know of any m+ assa streamer? all i see is outlaw
rancid bobcat
hmm
interesting that it might be 9x exp3 until the final cloak upgrade
simplifies things a bit but also kinda lame
fleet whale
so is 34.99% crit too much crit for assassination in ST?
vast forum
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/658078069999009822/727617564477489163/JY_25_2.png any full haste assa rogues in junkyard? 😄
fleet whale
haste is still decent in M+
you get more boss damage, and it still has some cleave benefit with the faster bleed ticks
harsh tusk
Need help with Mythic Nzoth parsing, attached is my sim. Don't have any sanity issues during the fight or any mechanical issues, boss dmg is high, but I know my parse could be better and gear my be suboptimal
Any tips for Mythic Nzoth parsing appreciated.
harsh tusk
around 56, 60 area
which isn't great at all obviously (usually play outlaw, I know boo)
steep plover
Whats ilvl i parse mid 80s and my gear isnt that good yet
Probably need to refine ur rotation
harsh tusk
Working on that part, mainly looking for assistance with the sim since I know I'm not optimized by any means
vast forum
if you're simming 94k, 56-60% parse on n'zoth is more than fine
there are people simming >110k
steep plover
U should probs try and get the logic loop mech ring
And since ur stacking haste maybe see how ss works insead of dd?
And maybe change conflict and strife minor to something else
like iris minor or whatever else that sims better
vast forum
also, n'zoth parses aren't very relevant
rancid bobcat
nzoth parses are just about pooping on adds as much as you can
fleet whale
yeah when you're progging through Mythic 60ish parses really isn't that bad on your first kills
vast forum
i mean, i'm having a hard time parsing on n'zoth because we have to stop dps to not make him immune, and all the tentacles die too fast so the downtime is insane compared to progress
steep plover
Ive seen some mages pump the dps on the psychus tentacles since the dmg is buff lmao its insane
fleet anchor
I mean I wouldn't say they are "just" about pooping on adds 😛
It's hard to get a 95% or something without doing strong add damage sure, but like.. if you are doing really solid damage on the boss and prio targets you should be able to have a pretty strong parse
fleet whale
When you first kill a boss on mythic though
i think it's unreasonable to expect a 95 parse
fleet anchor
I had a 96% parse a couple weeks ago with CLF + almost no real pad on anything other than a bit of upstairs Psychophages (still one of the lowest in the raid on Psychophages though) and 2nd highest boss damage, but my gear is pretty solid too
Should be pretty easy to do 80%+ parse if you are doing everything correctly and have strong gear
But also wouldn't be overly concerned about 60-70% parses on a fight like N'zoth either
loud light
hard to get a progression parse unless you're a demon hunter running infinite stars on a super long kill time 😩
fleet anchor
At the end of the day it really doesn't matter
fleet anchor
As long as you're doing what your raid wants/needs you to do on that fight
fleet whale
and if you parses below 99 you were bad
fleet anchor
The parse is pretty irrelevant
Like many guilds will still do a stop DPS on Mythic phase for example
And depending on your luck with push/pull patterns, where your immunity is, etc.
Also like my guild is starting to kill the first adds on pull so fast I literally can't get any damage in half the time
For prog parses as long as you aren't being dead weight, just do the right stuff and you're ok 😛
fleet whale
yeah, that's why in my mindset I go for blue first when first killing a boss in prog
and worry about high parses during farm
fleet anchor
yeah
Honestly even high green is fine for prog
Prog kills really don't favor parsing a lot of the time
crimson palm
I was rank 3 last reset ^^
harsh tusk
Well boss wise im usually second or third behind our fire mages, and he;s around 25% going into chamber
fleet anchor
Yes, but that doesn't mean it's "all about" that
harsh tusk
I just cant get dmg on adds since they fall over quickly
fleet anchor
It's totally possible to get a 90% parse without doing much on THs
Not that I'd see why you wouldn't want to damage THs anyway
crimson palm
Yeah but if you want to push the high ones gotta get dem harvesters
fleet anchor
They are priority targets and unless your raid is running 5 Mages, they actually do need a fair amount of cleave to die on time
harsh tusk
yeah psycho's I get a few garrotes in but that's about it.
and I stun them away from main group
fleet anchor
With our comp which doesn't have lots of Mages and only a couple Warlocks, the THs I usually focus (same ones I immune) probably wouldn't die on time without my damage
So I don't really think it's pad in any way
fleet anchor
Psychophage in Psychus phase though is like.. 100% pad lol
crimson palm
Passive CT cleave KEKW
fleet anchor
I mean.. maybe 80% pad since I guess them dying isn't the worst thing, but really doesn't matter
I'm immune on 2nd TH set which lines up with Vanish so I usually get full value on those
We don't have Mage CD available for that set
I don't really touch the others much other than CT
Maybe some DoTs for Energy
vernal mauve
Is wowhead a good source to look at what corruption we need?
fleet anchor
wowhead guide is fine yeah
But generally we just want Expedient for PvE
So it's not really very exciting
vernal mauve
Okay, I wasn't sure. I think i have more TD and mind flays then that one
fleet anchor
TA is fine as a stop-gap but it's high RNG
Final setup is pretty much all Expedient
vernal mauve
Is there a certain amount of stats that I should be aiming for? My haste is my lowest atm at 19%
fleet anchor
Making the transition to that setup does take some time
And Expedient III isn't gonna come around again on the vendor for a while unfortunately
@crimson palm You guys probably are pushing up against that soon too but not even sure how easily I can parse now on N'zoth because our kill time is eating into my final CD set 😦
I had a great parse a few weeks ago but last week we killed in 10:50 and it clipped my final CD window, big sad
wet ruin
we don't even get mc-ed, its so shit
fleet anchor
Yeah it's more the MC timing is bad
crimson palm
I don't think anyone does 
fleet anchor
Or basically non-existent
crimson palm
It dies too fast
fleet anchor
There's definitely a sweet spot in the kill timings that allow Vendetta+MC buff getting a lot of SS/Vanish value during MC but we're past that point now
It's too bad
quasi pewter
just get more buyers
fleet anchor
haha there you go
wet ruin
we have like 2 every time
fleet anchor
I'm sure we will start selling soon
wet ruin
still shit timings
fleet anchor
But I think people still want their mounts atm
So we haven't started selling N'zoth yet
Probably will in the next few weeks though
I finally got my 2nd Carapace dagger last week so we can start selling to Rogues who want to gamble 🤣
crimson palm
It's still gonna die before mcs tho
fleet anchor
With 1-2 buyers I could see getting some MC value by letting first thought cast go off in P3
crimson palm
Are you lusting there or after mg2
fleet anchor
after MG2
crimson palm
Ah :)
crimson palm
We lust after secret phase and boss just evaporates
fleet anchor
Soaking nothing in P3
With 10:50 kill time
We may have to shift lust to P3, we're pushing down to 20% before Mythic phase during RP but pretty close to the immune trigger pre-RP
It's pretty crazy compared to prog lol
P3 just doesn't exist anymore, it's great
fervent mauve
does dslice work for assa m+? or do 4 target patch
fleet anchor
DS is fine yes if you are aiming for those target counts and want to consider boss damage also
Some people also sim higher target count e.g. 6T patch to see how their EB setup will perform on larger pulls
I would recommend using both tools
Patch sims will undervalue SS, which is a big plus of DS if you want to consider restealth value
fervent mauve
i see, thanks
fleet anchor
But yeah @crimson palm we may shift to that depending on how fast we start pushing up into the immune window. You guys had 27% going into P3 vs. our 20%. Your guys' P3 was 10:15->11:07, ours was 10:08->10:38. So P2 lust still generally was working better for our CDs than P3, but like I mentioned we're gonna hit the immune wall soon probably.
So we'll have to shift at some point
Unless we go for the P2 kill strat eventually, but I don't think we have enough burst CDs for that
Need more Mages lol
sick oyster
anyone simmed honed mind r3 setups for SS bis setup and got some numbers? thinking if its worth to bank one for whenever
quasi pewter
dont worry about honed mind for now
it will be a while until we need it
just buy it next rotation or the one after that even
sick oyster
ye thx thats what i was thinking
fleet anchor
Yeah for my stats it's leaning a little bit more towards Racing Pulse 3 so just check it when the time comes
It'll depend on your gear itemization
I got some lovely RP3 + Haste/Mastery pants in my cache today so the game decided to gift me my endgame piece in advance 🤣
autumn cosmos
Quick question - for PVE Single Target Mythic Nya, are people bothering to swap in Stars gear for higher potential parses or are people just utilizing their standard expedient gear all the way through with minor adjustments based on the encounter?
fleet whale
i see people stacking TA if they are willing to go for the high rng build
bosses are dying faster in these ST fights so that hurts stars value
umbral rapids
If I want to learn sin what build would you recommend ?
Heart about SS + haste and echoing blades + crit
sick oyster
blades + crit is m+ , ss build is raid / all around well rounded so depends
fleet anchor
Bzzzt
fleet anchor
That's crazy, those bots are such a silly design tbh lol
tropic ocean
aoe dmg at 22 was somewhat lower than 3 eb crit stack
but also doing 140k at boss is
👍
wet ruin
I think yoppa linked a 200k eralier today
fleet harness
Sorry for the noob question but wth is zap on an assasination rogue?
tropic ocean
the bots from junkyard key
fleet harness
Ahh got ya
tropic ocean
yeah couldve probably done 160 or 170k if we went faster
but pala floorpov
so had to take 50 bots
and yeah scales with key lvl so will see when I do 23 or 24 how high it goes
fleet anchor
Hunters tend to run a fair amount of Haste too though
So keeping up with a Hunter is pretty nice regardless
wet ruin
surely its not as much as full exp rogue
fleet anchor
Most Hunter setups are like 50/50
Severe/Expedient
@tropic ocean How much damage did the Hunter have from Zap?
tropic ocean
think hunter run 2 expedients
and rest severe, masterful
and bow
hunter zap 45mil
fleet anchor
Interesting, don't usually see much Masterful but guess it depends on what they have
tropic ocean
17%
yeah final build is that
1 masterful
3 severe 2 or 3 exp and bow
something like that
fleet anchor
Strange.
fleet anchor
Probably depends on the gear setup I guess. I never really have seen much benefit from it on my Hunter
tropic ocean
is ur hunter geared?
idk i just see every top hunter use it
the only difference I see is some use 4 severe and 2 expedient
and others use 3/3
fleet anchor
Well my Hunter sims higher than my Rogue so relatively 😛
I guess I just don't really see the math value of one vs. say.. two 😛
Like if it's good it's good, if it's not it's not. It's a multiplier and there shouldn't be any magic threshold
tropic ocean
idk maybe after 4 severe or 2 exp
1 masterful is better
than adding more severe/expedient
but there must be some reasoning as literally everyone uses 1
😄
fleet anchor
Yeah I mean I know getting Severe saturated is definitely a thing
My gear set actually cut Severe pretty quickly
tropic ocean
but for the simming part that is not rocket science
my warr has 2/12M down so no access to 485 gear or 490 azerite
and already +15k on my rogue
😄
fleet anchor
lol
yeah sounds about right
Man, this week sucks.. Being stuck at an even number for resist.. whyyy
tropic ocean
added last expedient today so only gear upgrades are nzoth weapon