wowanalyzer is very basic
#assassination
balmy condor
tame basin
got wondering if it just don't get Exs build correcly or I actually rly refreshed it badly (4 times garrote is probably counting 2 vanishes)
balmy condor
doesn't account for a lot of the min-max stuff
main forge
Its pretty trash right now, but its nice a guideline and gives a nice graphics to see major issues... like say having 80% uptime on maut for garrote and rupture
tame basin
Well not allowing energy to be capped with all this haste
balmy condor
I use it for when people post stuff in discord and I'm too lazy to actually look at the logs
tame basin
is actually hard not to hit 😄
tame basin
especially on BL
main forge
or in haste procs
need that mutilate talent to be increases cost by 10 and dps by 10%
languid magnet
lol. when i sim my rogue it just says "purfy everything and put expidient 3 on everyting" alrighty.
languid magnet
thats with exsang talented
balmy condor
yes
languid magnet
so i assumed it would tell me to mix severe and exp though
based on raz' guide :))
balmy condor
yeah no
raz's guide doesn't put severe on anything
not sure what guide you're reading
this is what his guide says
languid magnet
yes you are right, im dumb
balmy condor
save the severe for your m+ set :)
red bloom
GW simmed better for me than the rank 2 on a 485
fathom swift
racing pulse simmed better for me than honed mind, its all gonna depend on the rest of your gear
dull crypt
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dNfW9UQQBthHZUyixYB4fX why is sim recommending worldvein major x.X did I screw up something
patent topaz
it is good on paper but not so much in reality
dull crypt
It's the first time it's picking it over clf/bote
maybe because I got more haste since last night
patent topaz
simming with 3 allies as well, does anyone else in your raid run it?
dull crypt
haven't checked ert since I stopped running it anyway
rigid eagle
C how is the CD gonna work lol
by the time 2nd exsang runs out ur worldvein just comes up
fathom swift
pls dont bully poor gcb its trying its best
scarlet sequoia
the bis corruption i put in the guide is in fact just what simmed highest for me at the time, that is why i put the note underneath:)
🙂
dull crypt
was just wondering if anyone else gets WR out of their sim and if it works out for them, i dont see how it lines up well
tropic burrow
aguys what prepots do you use? depending on the guide it varies, some say superior agi for multi target some say emp prox
since im running exp build its better to take straight agi, no?
tribal obsidian
@scarlet sequoia didn't you say you added a gushing to your BiS or did that change
strange python
he said it was a slight dps increase for him atm on one 485 item
@tribal obsidian
mighty elm
was prob last week
mighty elm
well this week you can run 1 more tier of exp
distant lava
starting to get some dr on haste ngl
wet ruin
pretty sure he said gw is not better but he is using it for pvp and cba switching
strange python
no a couple weeks ago it simmed a bit higher
distant lava
I just want to have enough expedient so conflict gets better than formless 
wet ruin
won't really matter anyways
mighty elm
thats old news then
strange python
yes
patent topaz
conflict better than formless?
plain thistle
distant lava
conflict is like
patent topaz
do you mean formless better than lucid?
distant lava
150 dps behind formless rn for me
it's definetly getting closer
nah mate lucid is trash
strange python
lucid is useless now
patent topaz
lucid sims better for me still
distant lava
I wonder if that's close enough that I just abandon formless now
shut garnet
is honed mind even worth considering keeping on a piece
strange python
pretty sure it will be bis to have one when we got max cor res
distant lava
yeah but
distant lava
it has to be one hell of a piece
specially since when we get to that amount of cloak res
shut garnet
does this qualify
distant lava
you'll be begging for something to spend echoes on
HOLY
FUCK
yo quickly slide that piece over
no sudden moves
shut garnet
tribal obsidian
The whole cns vs formless i assume you guys already have bote minor through usung it as a major?
strange python
yes
patent topaz
I put gushing on cara boots
tribal obsidian
I have really good 475 pieces. All haste/mastery and some haste/crit. But only like 5/12M so none of the juicy loots
feral flare
Starting to put together the expedient build. Should I start looking for 475 Haste/Mastery gear to out the corruptions on? Or will Crit/Haste suffice?
put*
half timber
I apologize if the information is obvious somewhere, but is there a definitive haste breaking point at which sang/ct is viable?
patent topaz
when it sims higher
half timber
Well yeah, just wasn’t sure if a value was determined that I could aim for. I’ll just spam sims then as I push upwards
drifting cloud
For ct it prolly wont be before 60% the earliest
Exsang depends on azerite alot aswell
But can be better at alot lower haste already
half timber
Yeah, I’m running the exang heart dungeon shoulders, along with gibbering/cara chest
I mean, SS not exang
I should be able to swap next exp3. I’ll try to remember and record any info I come across in my sims
late whale
Hey guys, we just started on mythic n'zoth. any tips and pointers on cd usage with exsang build with crimson tempest, clf major?
patent topaz
dont run clf major is my hot take
strange python
Yeah, uhh...send it
mental trout
At what point of haste should I switch to all exp 3? I simmed my gear with my max haste (20%) and 6 rank 3 exp is only doing like 2k more dps. Really want to try this build but not sure how far off I am.
strange python
Trust the sim
strange python
Everybody’s threshold will be a bit different because of stats. There’s no hard line that I know of. The only way to determine is individually from your own personal sim.
sand whale
show sim 😉
wet ruin
@distant lava try with formless void 80% uptime
sand whale
you'd be surprised how many don't actually know how to sim and know why they get their results
tropic ocean
@patent topaz but clf major is big
patent topaz
not a fan on nzoth
mental trout
Yea im probably one of them people that doesn’t know how to sim properly. Only been playing for about 2 months from a 4 year break 😬
That was a quick sim, i am at work on my iPhone lmao but no matter what i can’t break that number. Think I need the mech rings to really change it, and obviously change my talents. Just not sure what else I should be looking for in upgrades to make it worth. Have 6 exp3 in my bag
patent topaz
like
you have nothing good
azerite, offpieces, essences
you can get a lot of upgrades just from +15 mythics
mental trout
Yea im close to getting uldum revered. All the guides i find seem to be outdated/conflicting. Any one have a good link to direct me too? I’ll look into ctf
runic kernel
Any glad rogues?
strange python
I watch a shitload of Pikaboo and he’s a glad rogue. Does that count?
The one on Ravenholdt is good and still up to date for the most part
runic kernel
Im in the gearing up process and just trying to choose between a few things. I posted in the pvp channel.
mental trout
Thank you!
mighty elm
warm parcel
why not just farm mecha
warm parcel
Cause mecha > shitty boes
nova wolf
i know that feel
nova wolf
I do like graphs... go on
warm parcel
strange python
guys hey
dire spoke
dire spoke
have you read the pinned guides and informations in this channel?
wide delta
how can I find out in logs the insanity loss of player at nzoth?
willow drum
What build do yall use for Nzoth
fallow breach
exsang I guess
willow drum
Does the SS build work for you on nzoth?
I have a hard time doing damage relying only on Vanish
Maybe im just bad lol
fallow breach
haven't tried yet cause I played outlaw each time I killed him 🙃
willow drum
Thats what i normally do too
But i was just wondering if someone had a good idea or smth
swift timber
do I swap to CLF major if it sims 0.3% better on 5 minute fight or is there anything simbaity about it
wary ice
i think the SS build is better for parsing, but the DD build is probably better for actually progressing the fight; assuming all gear for both sets is equal
scarlet sequoia
why
wary ice
DD does damage w/o vanish 🤷
wary ice
sure but like
wary ice
suffering from RNG on everything in the 8+minute fight that isnt nzoth and having 3 dead azerite traits seems like an ez pick
wary ice
🤷♂️ i dont have vanish up for the tentacles
tropic ocean
if any azerite is dead its dd
cuz every time u need to move
u essentially play without traits
while for ss u just need to be able to dps every 2min
and u have 100% value of ur trait
oh and the dps in the 30sec boss push windows is higher than dd as well
wary ice
yeah that makes sense
tropic ocean
oh and the traits actually have value on multi target
swift timber
and u get to peak higher on dps chart
tropic ocean
for progress u will most likely struggle with tentacles
and/or psychus
for both ss build has way better dps output
with 0 ng
rng
somber zephyr
Hey guys, what are the best race rogue animations? I think i want to create a male Kultiran rogue but i am not sure if the race active and animation are okay compared to the other available. Other races may be better related to sims but is it that important to play the best race? i want to raid mythic and play high m+ (~3,5k rio) in SL. I am totaly new to Rogue thats why i ask.
wary ice
You can check animations in the wowhead dressing room
swift timber
I don't think the animations change much do they?
can never go wrong with __ elf though
strange python
somber zephyr
oh okay i will check the room, and what are ur favorites? And what about competetive racials?
swift timber
alliance night elf
horde blood elf pve orc pvp
gentle belfry
Kind of weirdchamp to push paast 3.5k and not be willing to go belf for the racial
and the racial alone
wet ruin
you absolutely don't need to be belf to push 3.5k
white wyvern
thinking you need to be belf for 3.5k is 
fallow breach
you don't need races for anything let's be honest
aside from funny world first mythic nya
royal lantern
why do people think that belf is the giga ultra race that is better then everything else lol
the only spec where going belf makes some kind of bigger difference is frost dk cus of how breath works
and even there is such a minor difference
alliance racials pull miles over anything belf has
strange python
Remnant of Legion, that is why. Belf AoE silence was niiiiiice
People forget it isnt that anymore
Dispel is nice Sure, but the old Belf racial was the only thing where Race made a super significant difference in m+ I guess
royal lantern
human spirit is quite a big boost after the 3-4 raidtier in every expac, worgen ms boost is the same niche as goblin jump but worgen ms boost hold for 9(?) sec and 1crit, stoneskin/fire blood from both dwarfs are huge for tanks, shadowmeld is shadowmeld
if you wanna minmax by racials you go alliance, but nobody that does serious content plays alliance
strange python
True, forgot about meld
royal lantern
there is a reason why on trournament realms they ALL play alliance
cus there they can do it and dwarf/nelf is huge
(m+ wise)
belf is.....decent at best for almost 2 years now, yet people still jerk over it(and racial differences are so small for 99,9999%of all players, it doesnt make a frking difference anyway)
fallow breach
yeah but if there was a tournament realm for +30 keys I think they would just all play troll
royal lantern
why
fallow breach
let's be honest just to berzerk
royal lantern
dont need meld but need berserk
lmao ok
troll racial is REALLY overrated too cus its not great for every single spec that is not haste heavy
fallow breach
mage and hunters thgo
royal lantern
is it bad? ofc not, its still (too) strong, but why the fuck do people think that going troll=doing 20%more dps
fallow breach
I guess they would just go dwarf to be safer
royal lantern
no
if you go that high you go nelf simply for cheesing mechanics and skipping stuff lol
somber zephyr
i checked the dressing room, special 1H animation is the only animation which rly changes over the races
and belf/voidelf got the same
looks amazing
nelf is like a fidget-spinner
main forge
dem flips
humble tiger
if i don't have a single expedient, should i buy the exp2 on saturday or wait for 3s to come on?
fallow breach
depends if you need them right now
if not just wait with 30k echoes for when expedient 3 is up
candid token
Which build should I be aiming for on a fresh 120 Rogue. Im hearing alot about the Bleed Build, but it seems to require alot of gear.. should I still go for that, or is there any other build which still does the trick
void pecan
Do whatever you want
Bleed requires? Tons of haste, which you can't have starting out
fleet whale
Rogue esp assassination just plays like ass cheeks as a fresh 120
i mean i guess every class kind of does, but assassination especially isn't a great time as a fresh 120
ebon heath
@candid token If you want to raid maybe triple DD with master assassin should be a good starter until you get all your haste gear
candid token
And that is with Toxic Blade and Poison Bomb am I right?
swift timber
yep
candid token
Ah nice, thanks guys ^_^
fleet whale
and you can still stack haste/exp as the TB/DD build. It's still really good for that build, and it will make it easier if you ever want to switch
red pagoda
do you use galecaller's boon on cooldown or before every second exsanguinate?
keen bloom
with black temple timewalking up do you guys think is worth trying to get Shard of Azzinoth?
prisma cypress
if you have triple double dose then whats the word for that number of doses
tropic ocean
@keen bloom pretty sure its easier to get in non timewalk and just cycle through chars that can wear dagger, if u want it for tmog
torpid sparrow
so , i saved up my residium to buy a helm/shoulders , since i cant fucking drop ra den one and i got this
keen bloom
I meant for the passive effect on 445 ilvl
torpid sparrow
should i just buy ss/fok helm and have it for mm + as well?
fleet whale
is that still a thing? is the 445 dagger still worth it?
slow frigate
Any guides on how to optimize dps on nzoth mythic? struggeling to figure out best times to pop my stuff. Im assigned to use cds on psychus phase 1
rancid bobcat
hmm
lethal bobcat
is this diference in dmg worth going exsanguinate?
im currently going with 3xDD TB build
and im at 66% haste unbuffed
also 37% crit and 36% mastery
odd heath
is this diference in dmg worth going exsanguinate?
@lethal bobcat Try this sim with Deeper Stratagem selected as a talent also
tranquil moat
Anyone here in EU able to help my rogue unlock masks? 🙂
lean marten
can u not full clear 0mask?
balmy condor
@lethal bobcat SS/Exsang also does better realistically because of the cleave potential, so I would run it 100%
lethal bobcat
i see ty
lean marten
if u can use the 1 mask and clear the 2 zones for the other 2 masks
then ur at 3 masks
then next week put on a mask and do other 2 zones for all 5
wide swallow
@slow frigate I just started nzoth prog this week myself so i'm by no means the best source of info, but im also using my CDs on first psychus and i've just been popping all cds on the first basher on pull because theyll be back by the time psychus is ~5-6 stacks which is when i start popping cds on him as well
i dont use vanish on pull just because the tentacles die sso fast and i dont want it to be delayed further on psychus
Warcraft logs can be very useful for this though, you might have to dig a bit to find someone with similar group assignement as you and look through their casts timeline and see when they use things
bleak spoke
Your basher will never live for long enough for you to vanish if you’re playing exsang
mellow berry
hey guys, can anyone give me a hint how to best sim for m+?
bleak spoke
6target patchwerk for 40s and then 60s without lust
To imitate trash pulls
And then you sim that setup for st
And see how much single you’re willing to give up for aoe
slow frigate
@wide swallow Ty, imma go do that, i got the kill yesterday, i joined a guild that already had nzoth on farm but felt quite useless haha. But i'll go look at some logs.
wide swallow
Np, only had 2 days of prog so I can't help past first psychus lol
mellow berry
thx @bleak spoke
strange python
aaaaah another week without vita
the officer that just rerolled and his friend thats a trial got them
feeeels good
how horrible is this luck
got 475 3 spells loop of recursion
with gushing
balmy condor
so purify it if you don't want to run the gushing?
strange python
Yeah but having to purify that is not nice 😦
uncut schooner
Hello, I'm new to assassination and fresh into rogue in general. I'm trying to be able to do both m+ and raiding and I've been using various guides to get a feel for how to use my rotation but overall my damage still feels subpar. How can I go about identifying the issues and improving?
uncut schooner
Sec. I'll grab the heroic logs from my guiild run yesterday.
I'm pretty new into the game so I'm expecting some harsh criticisms.
I know I'm messing up a lot somewhere.
tropic ocean
you overwrite buffed garrote
u fail to use all your possible vanishs
in maut u didnt use your essence at all
(iris major is also not very good)
you refresh your dots too early
losing effective uptime (pandemic)
uncut schooner
Yeah, I need to switch to BoTe from what I've been told so far.
I've found around the middle of fights I'm usually energy drained as well.
tropic ocean
without lots of expedients and high gear its normal
u will have 30-40% pooling time
uncut schooner
So I need to maximise vanish more and wait longer on my dot timers before reapplying.
tropic ocean
yes
you want to refresh your dots when they are within pandemi
pandemic
(see guide for explanation)
and when you are using iris major despite it being a bad essence
not using it at all is worse
uncut schooner
Is there a correct time to be using an essence within our rotation?
I've been told I'd be better off switching to a double dose build for greater focus on crit and I know BoTe plays into that, but I'm a little bit confused on how they all interact.
And when correct timing is.
tropic ocean
essence usage is in ravenholdt guide on website
for what build to use your best bet is to use raidbots.com
and sim your available gear choices
to pick the best combination
uncut schooner
Guess I'm going to have to sub to it lol
sullen pagoda
sub to what
uncut schooner
Raidbots.
sullen pagoda
no?
uncut schooner
It only lets me do so many combinations?
gusty nebula
Hm, when specifically looking for Nzoth mythic, I notice my patchwerk 1 boss sims seem to differ a bit from what I see used a lot on nzoth specifically in logs.
Is there anyone that can give input if I should trust ST sim over copying what I see on logs when I have most of the same pieces?
warm parcel
context
uncut schooner
@tropic ocean Thank you btw 🙂
gusty nebula
Running another sim, and I'll post it @warm parcel
I'm just trying to maximize my setup for nzoth I guess, I'm consistently "lowest" on overall damage (but highest or second highest on nzoth specifically). We're currently progging till just around gateway timing, hoping to get more consistently into last blast phase.
warm parcel
are you going down the mindgate
gusty nebula
No, which is why my damage is so much lower
warm parcel
then dont look at overall
warm parcel
no point comparing your overall to someone getting 90000% boost on dmg
so what is it you want
bleak spoke
Sin rogue excels at boss damage in that fight
gusty nebula
Maybe if you're open to it and know nzoth, could you have a look at the above sim and say if you notice anything that really shouldn't be used there specifically for nzoth?
bleak spoke
Playing to your strengths is generally preferable
warm parcel
Id slap on coral
gusty nebula
Also, why is it 4k lower than yesterday with the exact same sim and input....wtf. It was 93k yesterday
warm parcel
As you dont go down, you can keep stacking coral when boss is dmg immune
warm parcel
Absolutely
bleak spoke
You got to be up
rigid eagle
my dude @gusty nebula you have double 475 daggers and 480 gorak tul!!!!
warm parcel
I didnt go down either
bleak spoke
I got to go down and not cd psychus was weird
Idk why I was there
Reliable kicks ig
gusty nebula
I got a coral, it's a good tip
Didn't actually think of stacking it on nzoth while immune 🤔
warm parcel
If you dont go down:
Try out coral and keep stacking it by keeping up bleeds on the boss.
Prep for mind shatter by having all bleeds up on before psychus dies already.
Then just blast
bleak spoke
You can do it pretty easily by just rupturing it and letting coral’s ppm stack itself
warm parcel
Obviously you dont want to use any cds outside the two burn phases
Yeah if you can keep rupture up on the boss 24/7
That should be fine
gusty nebula
@rigid eagle I didn't quite get what you meant by that comment btw ;p
sweet inlet
i have been informed theres a "new"ish haste exsanguinate build?
bleak spoke
And throwing a knife running around upstairs if you keep it bled will be insane energy
warm parcel
3xss is obviously good for the 2 min burst windows too
bleak spoke
The way the trinket works is you are likely to get 5 procs a minute
warm parcel
And later on when you can vanish garrote the boss and the 2 adds
So ss and sub are good
bleak spoke
And bad luck protection kicks in
sweet inlet
honestly i dont know why i didnt check there first, sorry and thank you
gusty nebula
Not a worry.
gusty nebula
Yeah, good point
rigid eagle
@gusty nebula im just super jealous of ur luck lol, but I feel like ur missing out on a good amount of base haste
bleak spoke
You can also stick coral on the voidspawn in secret phase and stack it up come out and blast the boss
warm parcel
^
bleak spoke
Trinket actually slams
gusty nebula
I really want to get double mecha rings for more haste, but one of my rings has expedient 3, so feh. Gotta wait for next vendor cycle
gusty nebula
@rigid eagle It was a lot of farming for residuum tbh
sweet inlet
do we know if that haste exsang build is stronger than the normal twilight dev M+ build?
or is that purely raid worthy?
rigid eagle
lol how do you even farm for residuum tho
sweet inlet
damn
gusty nebula
Fair point. But scrapping everything from heroic, doing a 20 almost every week etc
rigid eagle
nutty lol
warm parcel
You can also use #showtooltip /tar boss1 /use 13 /targetlasttarget
to apply coral to boss
Without having to shuffle targets and what not
I just hit that bind after my first garrote on tentie
And then garrote the second one on pull
gusty nebula
Do you try to just keep rupture/garrote on everything that is up?
Or focus on basher and dot up something else if its close enough?
warm parcel
First wave is what ever
Past that I just garr rup both the basher and the caster one
And reapply rupture on boss if its dropping
Nothing really for you to do when youre the janitor upstairs
gusty nebula
Yeah
warm parcel
You really just wanna prep for the mind shatter
So youre 100% ready to top boss dmg as soon as psychus dies
gusty nebula
Yeah, I found my timings to use cooldowns so everything is ready for each dps window
warm parcel
nice
gusty nebula
It's just frustrating to be pretty much the only one person in the roster who can't get above 100k in the ST sim yet -_-
I know it's pointless to care about
but whatever.
distant lava
Dw brah
distant lava
That's how it be sometimes
warm parcel
Rogues overall dps is bad rn
gusty nebula
Haha, nice.
distant lava
warm parcel
P sure we simmed like 45k when tier started
magic thorn
End of palace was 54k
gusty nebula
I literally chose the worst class and tier to decide "hey, I've been a tank for 3 expansions, let's play dps for once!"
distant lava
I had 50k+ sim as outlaw at thend of ep weak
warm parcel
We came into this tier scuffed
distant lava
So sin defo was higher
warm parcel
But yeah
shy dust
Play fire mage or BM to top charts
warm parcel
Looks like maut FK was 60k dps
magic thorn
Sure you were there for zacool
warm parcel
So maybe 64k after hc week?=
shy dust
Sin is good at boss damage
warm parcel
Sin is alright at boss dmg
Its not even all that great with boss dps
Some specs just absolutely blast rogue right now
shy dust
Yeah in general rogue damage is not good this tier
distant lava
Low kill timers do a lot for us
warm parcel
One thing upstairs as the janitor
If your mages are combusing a set of tentacles
You can just go and kill the smol ones
Cause theyll solo that shit
Dno if you have like a dedicated smol tentacle killer
warm parcel
Yeah when our mage combusted the tentacle pari #2
I just went to kill 2 spikes on my own
As you can feint the aoe and vial
So youre not even in danger
gusty nebula
Yeah, my survivability is admittedly a lot better than some other classes.
warm parcel
Rogue usually is
gusty nebula
Cheers for the input anyway folks
near wigeon
Hey Guys do you think it is worth it to go to 55 Corruption for R4 TD?
near wigeon
Im Mainly Huntard - i can throw my Trap for the Thing from Beyond.
Okay i will test it out ; R3 is on a fkn low Item but the % is woth it i think. ^^
vast forum
why would you run TD? 🤮
near wigeon
Oh , nice this works? Great!
humble tiger
@vast forum cause it's way easier to gear ^^
i have like 15 corrupted pieces and not a single expedient
yep
near wigeon
@vast forum Dosent have that much Gear that i can use tbh. And TD is only ones thats can help me atm. ^^
humble tiger
what priority should i get the corruptions if i don't have expedient but around 460gs?
Should i go for the exp.2 next reset or wait for 3's?
Cloack at 12 atm
near wigeon
i think its more worth to Buy Vessels to come as fast as you can to Cloak 15. But im not sure
humble tiger
i have enough visions to go to 12, just not done yet since i strugle a bit in + areas
15*
near wigeon
Okay ; than what Religoth says
humble tiger
👍thanks mates
near wigeon
i wonder how much haste i must have to play the bleed build.
Now for My+ only i should stack Crit and go for SS+EB ; have someone a perf. haste "cap" to start with Bleed build?
tropic ocean
as soon as it sims better
usually with the correct azerite trinkets etc 50-60 ish %
near wigeon
Okay - im far away from this % ^^ But i think i will put some effort into my Rogue. Want to start Shadowlands with him. Thanks @tropic ocean 
oak hinge
Hiiii, with my guild we started the fight of mythic vex, can someone help me with tips for the fight, reccomend build, spec, or what to do pls :C?
royal lantern
do you need dmg on the boss? assa, do you struggle with adds? outlaw
go out when you get the circle, run too markers when called, dont get cleaved by the breath
thats pretty much everything you need too know for vex?
sour wraith
Make sure you aren't slightly in mid for the breath
fleet whale
nothing triggers me more than people dying to breath on Vex
strange python
Currently running 6 expedient 3s & 1 honed mind 3 (sims higher until I can get another exp 2 when it drops). My question is, with the exsang build, is it worth refreshing bleeds early (namely gar & rupt) when Honed Mind procs? Seeing a considerable increase in dmg from tooltip because its almost doubling my mastery
vagrant dirge
i currently dont have expedient corruption, is it worth me buying exp 2 when it rotates in the coming days?
or wait for 3
edgy pawn
wait for 3
vagrant dirge
kk
edgy pawn
if you have like a billion echoes just buy 2s, if not, wait for 3
fallow breach
Its in 3 weeks i think
edgy pawn
you can look up the exact date on wowhead
fallow breach
Aint that bad for first time mythic + first time with the build but damn I need better gear
edgy pawn
go vendetta -> blood
and you used vanish way too late
on pull when your first set of garottes falls off
dont hold it for exsang
fallow breach
I thought I had to use it for exsang
fallow breach
k k
edgy pawn
and then sync vendetta and vanish after
shut garnet
are ppl seeing mixed results between what sims best for the last corruption slot after 8exp3
between like gushing, honed mind, etc?
lethal bobcat
i know yoi gonna tell me to sim... but sims dont vvalue the party buff from vita... so i will ask... would you rather go with vita 460 or 475 dice with socket?
west cove
people farm 150k ap for 1k difference xd
lethal bobcat
i see lol
little root
you get a socket every 4-5 five mask vision right?
lethal bobcat
but vita as the party thing as well
thats why im asking
more 5-6 i think
the max i ever got from visions was about 4900 mementos
which means you will be 500 short
little root
ah ok
little root
+visions from echoes
dusky moon
5-mask run with getting candles is ~2.2k
so about 11 runs to get a socket
i guess you can get a bit more if you just go and kill all the enemies
wet ruin
that is just wrong
dusky moon
how?
wet ruin
its around 5 runs for a socket
outer mist
you get like 5k from a full 5mask clear
dusky moon
oh, okay
wet ruin
and you can get like 2.6-2.7k from the mobs inside
inland garnet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8aGLzwvaBp9VQ64YEaQutx This might hurt to look at but id still love to get some advice (the essences will all be at rank 3 tommorow)
vast forum
- and most important: replace cannonball runner
inland garnet
Yeah thats in there by mistake
vast forum
try out a few other combos of azerite/talents on top gear
you're running 2 shrouded suffocation traits with TB, might as well check if tripple shrouded sims better with exsang
astral tiger
I've seen some logs of rogues going ahead on Cara p2 and using vendetta on one of the Synthesis Growths ahead of the group. Any thoughts about this strat? Because the Growths with the group die much too quickly for vendetta so otherwise I feel like I'd have to hold it for like 5 minutes
inland garnet
Are there any pieces of gear where it would be recommended to place expiedient 3 on? (so things that i probably wont replace in the near future)?
And how worth is it to get both mechagon rings 465 compared to 2 "normal" ring with haste
patent quartz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9PsFCh9KR7tmDbgDFSCW7 only 78k with 50% haste
shouldve left mindlays on
any idea what to change? worth adding exp2 on 3 pcs on saturday?
vast forum
@inland garnet mechagon rings are huge
~3.5 socket value which at high end gear means ~2k dps
inland garnet
How high is the difference between 455 460 and 465? i guess also quite a bit?
or would it be fine to keep a 455 or 460 version of one of the rings
steep plover
If u have a 455 id try go for 465 if its not too much hassle for u
inland garnet
Allright thanks ^^
Also is the use 3 different abilities much worse than the hit the enemy from behind? because the 3 different does seem to have a more versatile use
steep plover
But like for 460 i dont bother personally cause its not worth it for me, but if ur trying to min max then ue itd be better
Ye from what i know its a bit worse since itll proc less often
But not by alot
inland garnet
Okay ^^
steep plover
Good luck cuz
torpid linden
quick question, do I use crimson tempest if there are no adds up?
As in maintain the bleed on a single target ?
i'm not at 7 expedient 3s, just using it because it looks like it's still better on ra-den.
if thatm akes a difference
peak karma
Level 119 atm on my rogue. How can I gear up my rogue to do the best dps while also going for the expedient build?
Also, is the expedient build viable in m+?
meager bridge
Might be decent in higher yards
meager bridge
Yes
distant lava
not being outlaw is kinda 
whereas in WS and KR there's not that many outlaw specific jobs
meager bridge
I tested sin in ws and yard
distant lava
or maybe I don't have enough xp in high keys
meager bridge
The spotter pulls don't care about dmg
main forge
I run assassination in M+ but frankly... its pathetic to run it as outlaw is just superior to it
meager bridge
Outlaw has the better kit is all
main forge
Has better options.
meager bridge
And sin requires your tank to play around it so you get re
main forge
Easy AOE DPS(don't need another gear set)
outlaw can just keep up with the pulls without stopping
meager bridge
Yep
main forge
stealth also can be a pain... i swear I have some instances where something bugs and keeps you in combat
meager bridge
Sin on last Boss in yard is 🙌 too
distant lava
ooo true
meager bridge
But I rly missed acrobatic strikes when playing it
distant lava
oh yeah man
meager bridge
Got used to the range
main forge
oh yeah boss go BRRRR
distant lava
the first time I did a semi-high KR as sin
I instantly died to the spin from the king in gauntlet
meager bridge
Lmao
distant lava
"oh yeah I was close to him 
"
main forge
I ran a sim to see if CT did better than bomb.... Its a +13 dps increase
meager bridge
Need more haste then
main forge
yeah, but nice to see I am right there
need the mecha rings and i think i have two pieces that don't have haste on them
pants and belt are missing haste
meager bridge
2 friends have bis mecha rings on 475
distant lava
how many expedients tho
meager bridge
Every time I see it I mald
distant lava
@meager bridge the rogue who just joined my guild has double 475 rings and 475 plumage 
I hope the mofo doesn't get cara dagger for a while
meager bridge
I have 475 plumage too
distant lava
I have the backstab one at 475
meager bridge
That's sick
meager bridge
meager bridge
daring urchin
i have 7 exp3 in my bank cus im afraid of messing up on what item to use it
should i aim item with haste and bigger ilvl?
fallow otter
Used NP instead of HoD this week in raid coz of other version of raden helm saved by accident dohhh
nocturne cradle
Just got back since Uldir patch. As sin, do we run 2 daggers?
balmy condor
Can’t cast mutilate without 2 daggers, so usually yes
strange python
Is double dose the be on end on Azerite for raiding?
shy dust
No
strange python
What would you use instead, twist the knife x 3?
main blaze
He says usually we use daggers because there was an m+ log a little bit back that cast 0 mutilates and ran with lash of the void weapons
Lol
balmy condor
I was mostly referring to the hivemind cheese where you run double lash or divers folly
but same thing tbh
runic tinsel
can someone link thier big boy sim please? i wanna compare why NP sims so high for me, was under the impression that at high haste the extra energy was pretty much useless
patent topaz
it sims higer because its better than ttk. you are using CT so you envenom way less
its not a good helm for bleed build
patent topaz
that would be a good upgrade
runic tinsel
i think the only upgrades left i can get without weekly chest luck is from ra-den and carapace
patent topaz
looks like it
runic tinsel
and sockets, im really lacking there
patent topaz
I really need to get the junkyard ring myself, 1900 dps increase right there
runic tinsel
yeah, its insane how good those rings are
got lucky with backstab one and got it randomly before i even knew about them, but the haste ring was a bitch. probably close to 30 runs before i finally got it
fluid path
Is there a point where crit becomes less effective? I'm currently at 52% and wondering if i should start stacking more haste/mastery corruptions
arctic walrus
well why are you stacking severe instead of expedient to begin with
fluid path
I thought it would be better for mythic+. Lol
strange python
Sinclaire - is that your raiding gear or dungeon?
arctic walrus
okay then yeah severe but you should also have strikethroughs to compliment it
runic tinsel
its my raiding gear
verbal sparrow
Ya been talking about 475 bis rings meanwhile I have 475 when below50% I deal nature dmg 
inland garnet
Just got the Workshop ring on 465 with nature damage ... just hurts a little bit
steep plover
I got lucky i had one before i even knew they were bis and then the 2nd one took me like 4 or 5 runs
inland garnet
i wish ^^
nocturne crystal
heya, just bought the Shadowlands epic edition and now I have my first 120 as assassination rogue, glad to be here
steep plover
Respect, welcome to the cult, we need u to drink the blood of a baby goat to be initated into the group officially
nocturne crystal
Yum
I gotta learn how to play the class, seems fun but definitely hard to be throw up to level 120
verbal sparrow
The big portion of playing this class is just hearing everyone throw a shit on you that you suck even tho you have bigger numbers than them 
runic tinsel
been trying to look through logs for answer but apparently im shit at it, dont understand anything. What im wondering is how to play around second use of Vendetta/Vanish/BotE and exang.
do i hold to pair them up, wait for vanish CD and skip using exang. For now ive alternated between using Vendetta+bote and vanish+exang or just holding everything until i can basically do a second opener
arctic walrus
you use exsang on cd, your 2nd set of cds will be up so just save them
runic tinsel
so save CDs for 15 sec so it lines up with exang
somber zephyr
Hi, why are there such big differences between bloodmallet and herodmg race sims? At bloodmallet all are nearly equal, at herodmg there are big differences from 0,5% to 1,5% DPS Gain.
crimson palm
how about u sim ur own char and stop looking at bloodmallet
solar flicker
belf female coomer bis
somber zephyr
i am in character creation, i have no own char to sim 😄
i know that sims are only in a specific enviroment but this difference is huge.
worldly iron
you will very likely never be in a situation where it matters
just play whatever you want
strange python
@somber zephyr race dps barely makes a difference
worldly iron
if you need 30 more dps to down a boss, you've got other problems
strange python
just choose race depending on their race ability
fathom swift
Pick gnome, escape artist for corruption slow is bis
somber zephyr
yeah i know, but i wonder why the both sides come to such different sims
it questions all sims for me
strange python
lol
somber zephyr
also corruption
fathom swift
It depends what the gear they're simming with
strange python
mby they use different gear?
hero damage uses DD gear
and bloodmallet doesn't say
idk why you're even looking at race dps tbh
somber zephyr
both give info about the gear they use the same gear with same corruptions 😄
strange python
still, why do u look at race dps
somber zephyr
just checked the faq here and got a link to herodmg, i normaly use bloodmallet. i just compared for fun and saw this difference
but yeah nvm i was just confused 😄
strange python
just choose w/e looks the coolest or what u think has the best racial
near wigeon
Hey Guys, want to play only My+ with my Rogue better buy the Crit Corruptions or wait for the Haste Cor. ?
arctic walrus
Yeah you want severe/strike through
crimson palm
slow tulip
thx mate
steady flame
does anybody have a definitive spreadsheet of BIS gear?
jolly star
press X to doubt
torpid mesa
fallow breach
well mecha rings 475
carapace daggers + chest
vita 475 + golden plumage 475
and uh
haste crit stats everywhere
tropic ocean
x doubt
vast forum
it's not full haste crit tho
you want some versa and some mastery
also, galecaller sims better than plumage for me
low girder
It sims better for most I believe
vast forum
plumage is simpler to use but if you can get full use out of galecaller, it's better
low girder
Its just a pain to use, yeah
vast forum
also, definitive bis doesn't exist with sockets
any 475 gear in non-485 slots with haste is fine
you can just swap gems around if you're missing some stat
like, what's the difference between wearing a haste/crit item and gemming vers and wearing a haste/vers item and gemming crit?
and yes, in case you're wondering, you CAN have too much haste and other stats overtake it at highest gear
mellow pier
Ive found with galecaller u can get screwed on somethings if u have weird phase timings or what not
Bosses with weird movements and if u hold at all u potentially lose a cast
Plume is just much more simple for minimal loss
warm fulcrum
Can confirm, can get cucked with gale
icy ember
yo when using deeper stratagem, during the vanish window, its cool to just E>M>E even if you only end up w/4 cps
or even 3 if you are unlucky
mellow pier
Does MA still sim higher than subt?
I assume if ur using DS ur gear is decent enough for subt to be better
icy ember
nah it isn't, and I just dont cuz im bad w/exsanguinate, but it sims as 1300dps higher using DS
does anyone know?
mellow pier
U dont need exsang for subt to be better
I played subt with tb for awhile cause it was better
green isle
do you keep up crimson tempest in single target? like in m+ boss
vast forum
yes
or, well, i guess it could depend on your gear
there is probably a middle ground where it sims lower than PB but is still worth using on ST when already talented
maybe not worth pressing at some lower gear levels but idk, @fleet anchor could look into it maybe? 😄
steep plover
Are there any bis items for m+
Like any must haves or any pieces that are generally used because they're good
nocturne crystal
how do you get better Item level gear, is it just doing dungeons?
vast forum
highest ilvl is from last 2 bosses of mythic raid
465 is highest you can get from end-of-run m+ chest
475 weekly chest
carapace and n'zoth drop 485 gear
nocturne crystal
yeah I'm new to retail so I don't know what any of that is
lean marten
470 from 5mask vision 1/perWeek
nocturne crystal
if there's anyone that can explain or can gimme a link explaining it, that'd be great
steep plover
Do u know what mythic+ dungeons are
nocturne crystal
no, I got WoW and played classic cuz thats what my friends were playing. I decided to try retail and I bought the epic edition of shadowlands and I made a 120 but don't really know what to do or how to do it
on the dungeon finder it says heroic for me, how do I get mythic+
royal lantern
cant queue for actually hard content in LFD
if you wanna do challaging content you gotta make your own groups and walk too the dungeon/raid like it always worked(yes, ik that people in classic think that everything works automatic with random people queues, but thats not true, you can only do casual content with randoms)
nocturne crystal
ok thats nice
I'm guessing before anything I should do the campaign quests, right?
fallow breach
well yes
lean marten
Do the Black Empire Campaign
nocturne crystal
again, i don't know that that is, I'm going based off of slightly more orange quest markers for finding my way around
lean marten
if you open ur Quest log the quests are organized into groups
i googled this might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qItOV9TvA
green isle
if you've never played retail id advice leveling a character
nocturne crystal
thanks, I'll check it out
feral flare
Going to be building up the expedient/exang build. Heard Mastery becomes important at that point. Should I be looking for haste/mastery gear to put my expedients on? Or will Crit/Haste suffice?
lethal bobcat
is mastery better then crit for Exsanguinate? or is it kinda the same? i tryed simming my character with changing all gems and it said that full gemmed haste + haste on rings enchants is the best
oh damm someone just asked that... mb
red bloom
According to some recent guide there’s a magical 34% crit but as always 
vast forum
there is no magical crit
magical crit MIGHT be a thing at full bis gear but that might change the moment you get 475 mechagon rings or 475 plumage/galecaller
as those things aren't targetable, most sims use them as 465
gentle belfry
Lol people will claim imaginary soft/hard-caps; trust the sim only brother
According to some recent guide there’s a magical 34% crit but as always
@red bloom
echo hemlock
Hello! I'm currently new to Rogue discord, but I was curious about what essences to run at high haste with expedient 20, and sitting above 70%
echo hemlock
Interesting, I'll give it a shot and sim it. I'll also test it in-game, ty!
sullen cloak
been hard faming for the overclocking bit band, 12 mechaon WS yesterday alone and haven't even seen one drop :c makes me really sad
mighty elm
buy a boost
verbal sparrow
don't worry, I'm struggling with same issue
wet ruin
how is boost gonna help with that
mighty elm
5 times the chance
wet ruin
eh, still not guaranteed
guy said he hasn't seen one, let alone get it 😄
and technically to get 5 times the chance you need to buy a 20 key or something
tropic ocean
mighty elm
tropic ocean
this some weird maths
wet ruin
its not
tropic ocean
ya it is
wet ruin
a key drops 3 items
lean marten
depends if depleted iirc
onyx crane
talk about a balanced build
mighty elm
But you could also not get loot
tropic ocean
@onyx crane but u need 34 crit for max dps bro
onyx crane
this gear sims highest for me
mighty elm
Not 40% vers
onyx crane
lol @mighty elm
mighty elm
tropic ocean
oh and 2 3 different spell ones
tropic ocean
Few sockets to go
mighty elm
Corr*
tropic ocean
5x
mighty elm
Wat
tropic ocean
well idk if simming 5 min is worth
When killin all sub 3 min
Besides last 3 and drest or so
mighty elm
Faxxs
wet ruin
not really, its 5-6 bosses that are < 3 really
mighty elm
Are you doubting the faxxs
wet ruin
yess
wet ruin
I see 5 of those < 3 though 
wet ruin
eh, not really, but I can give you that
mighty elm
Good that we can agree on this
wet ruin
for me its like 6 bosses in that category, so it depends on what you do
mighty elm
Ye I mean 9 bosses can all be killed In sub 3 min
tropic ocean
Think wrathion too
mighty elm
Yh for sure
tropic ocean
And drest well
tropic ocean
Basically 3 min with 1min afking
mighty elm
tropic ocean
U kill cara and ilgynoth way faster than me
😭
need to get guild to get mc and blast earlier
We lust on pull now but not sure if thats the most efficient way
distant lava
3 min sim
mighty elm
Our cars was nice yday
Cara*
I’m not In on psychus so I told them to bench me 
We also lust on pull @tropic ocean
tropic charm
I asked this a couple days ago, but was explaining to a friend and forgot the reasoning. Even though sims tell me to drop 2 of my expedients, which I’m currently at R18 of it, for 2 R1 IS (which is like a 1.8k DPS boost), why don’t I want to do that? I know for ST fights it’s ideal, but why should I not get another set of gear for pure ST fights?
woeful minnow
it's not really simbait on pure ST fights which is what he's asking about
mellow pier
It is tho
woeful minnow
the issue is that there's almost no pure ST fight in nya
mellow pier
Its like simming mindflay
woeful minnow
not even close but okay
mellow pier
???
tropic charm
I didn’t mean to start an argument lol. I was just trying to get an answer for a friend
mellow pier
@tropic charm my advice to u is to avoid IS personally but it can perform well if u get great rng
Also its only good on maybe 3 fights
tropic charm
Yeah, I know it’s only good for pure ST, but if I have extra echoes, would it be worth putting together an IS set for drest, Maut, and xanesh
mellow pier
Def not drest lol
mellow pier
Drest and maut are no nos
For IS
Maut A. It can proc on add B. U will die if u have a p2
mellow pier
Xanesh is better fight for IS tho
tropic charm
If only my guild would bench players so we could actually progress on xanesh
mellow pier
Cause length of fight
But again IS is shit
If ur running IS ur going for god tier rng anyways lol
paper kelp
xanesh is quite fast
mellow pier
Might as well add more
paper kelp
sub 4 min easy
mellow pier
Not for his guild it wont be
mighty elm
P2 maut? What is that
mellow pier
Exactly
mighty elm
Laughing in one phase
tropic charm
That’s why I have the expedient build. I hate rng but I figured, I have more expedients than I can handle right now (R18 and 2 in my bag), so why not make another build
paper kelp
im so mad my guild literally lost one player and they went like yeah no we re endign mythic prog
have fun guys
paper kelp
laughing in 5 min maut cause guild refuses to hold adds
tropic charm
Yeah, my guild has like 2-3 people who don’t carry their weight, but one is an officer and others have been in the guild for 5+ years so they won’t get benched
mighty elm
@paper kelp
paper kelp
nah but like we had people struggle on the mechanic of not moving on wrathion
truly peak mythic experience
tropic charm
One of our HUNTERS still dies to wrathions mechanic :L
paper kelp
to still now have 1-2 person die to the curse
mighty elm
@tropic charm 18 expedient isn’t that much btw
tropic charm
I meant corruption wise
mighty elm
Ye
paper kelp
right now r21 is 39
tropic charm
I also have a honed mind 3
mighty elm
I run tier 3 expedient on every piece for most bosses, exception of nzoth and ilgy
gaunt tree
yo bois, can anyone shed some light on M+ assass for me? like, what do i need to consistently deal the necessary damage on 15+ scenarios?
is 3 shrouded + 3 fan azerites enough? do i need to know something else?
tropic charm
Like I’ve simmed exchanging the honed mind for 2 more expedients, R2 and R3, but honed mind always comes out on top
mellow pier
@tropic charm if u have sockets it makes expedient much more valuable
It also depends on ur haste on gear
tropic charm
I have some, aiming for another one, only have 4 atm
mellow pier
So basically its compounding
tropic charm
Maybe once I get to decent numbers the expedient will sim higher
mellow pier
Sockets+haste get more and more significant as u get more expedient
tropic charm
I’m rerunning the sim right now to tell you the dps difference between expedients and a honed mind
mellow pier
U would have to sim a r2 snd r3 expedient to 1 r3 honed mind
tropic charm
Yeah
mellow pier
A rank 3 honed mind will almost always outsim a r3 expedient
Due to corruption amount
tropic charm
Strange, telling me to apply my 2 rank 3s now
Oh I’m an idiot. Forgot about increased corruption resistance since last sim
mellow pier
Also 2 rank 3s is 40 corruption vs 35 for honed mind
left tendon
can x3 nothing personal and 3 double dose work?
fleet anchor
