assassination

[fast pine]

why are people using blood of the enemy instead of CLF in logs?

[solar pendant]

sims better for me

[grim trellis]

thank you @vast forum

[spice epoch]

Is there a string for raidbots to fix raidbots stat weights?

[sturdy python]

What do you mean

[spice epoch]

@sturdy python Stat weights tell me that haste is my worst stat - while i have r14 expedient. I doubt that it's right

and im not even 80% baseline haste

[sturdy python]

Maybe not but you can pretty much just ignore stat weight sims, all it does is add a bit of each stat and see what’s most valuable

From your current point

[drifting cloud]

because we dont actually scale with haste like arms

[sturdy python]

Which if you have enough haste it makes sense that other stats become valuable

[balmy condor]

Stat weight sims are troll

[spice epoch]

A rogue friend of mine has 84% baseline haste and haste is still best stat by far

[balmy condor]

Like actually worthless information

[spice epoch]

"which if you have enough haste it makes sense that other stats become valuable" - If i have 65% haste and my friend 85% i doubt that i have so much haste that haste becomes non valuable

[balmy condor]

That’s not what that means

[cobalt pelican]

you're just disregarding all of the factors that aren't your haste% for some reason

it's very possible for expedient to be your best corruption and want to gem mastery or crit (though not likely)

[balmy condor]

Haste also isn’t “non-valuable”

But there will be points where 1% mastery scales much harder than having another 1% haste for example

Obviously troll with percents

But the concept remains

More damage per tick of bleed is stronger than a slightly faster tick rate

That’s why some people use masterful nav

Crit is inherently strong cause more CP and more damage, vers is just a straight multiplier, that’s pretty good too

But if all you do is look at the corruptions and go “ me build haste haste go brrrrr”

[fathom wind]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6gXaTXMbxycsyU78had1ty

[balmy condor]

Then obviously you’ll think haste is poppin

[solar pendant]

I cant tell what I'm doing wrong. I cant tell if its corruption or what why my damage is to slow. I have looked at comparing logs and I look to be doing the right stuff. I notice my not getting as many casts off sometimes but i think its just because of mechanics. I just feel like I'm way lower then i should

[willow scroll]

https://medium.com/raidbots/beware-of-stat-weights-240769a5323e

[balmy condor]

Yeah, that’s a great link, the pawn stuff is omega outdated

But the volatility part is important knowledge

That’s no one seems to understand

[solar pendant]

is it worth running IS or not at all

[balmy condor]

Don’t bother

Unless you’re a gamblin man and enjoy RNG nightmares and being bad at aoe

In which case, more power to you

[solar pendant]

problem is i have expidents to use but i dont have the gear to put it on yet

i dont want to waste them

[balmy condor]

By “gear to put it on”

What does that mean

[solar pendant]

like bis 475

[balmy condor]

Do you raid mythic?

[solar pendant]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Whack

Should be loaded with 470/475 gear

[solar pendant]

only came back a month ago

catching up

[balmy condor]

Ah there it is

Hard to tell

[solar pendant]

buy crafted gear?

[balmy condor]

If you need the damage now for prog, then go for it

If you don’t need it now

Farm for 2-3 weeks, get funneled gear

[solar pendant]

i mean we do plenty of damage. my damage is just behind haha

[balmy condor]

Then put it on

[solar pendant]

like i could use my 3 exped i have on piece or use IS and wait

my damage is kinda blah atm though

[balmy condor]

Well if the question is do I use X or Y

That’s a sim

If the question is do I use the container now or not

That’s a personal choice

[solar pendant]

IS was simming like 1 more then if i use the exped but that is rng

so

I feel its just so hard to tell whats good atm. Its not straight forward

[balmy condor]

IS will serve you well on like 2 maybe 3 fights

But if it doesn’t proc

Rip

[solar pendant]

yeah

[balmy condor]

If you want consistent damage, take the exped

[solar pendant]

i can see like shad and thats it haha

[balmy condor]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Usually consistency is better than rng

[solar pendant]

i just know im gonna use it and a piece is gonna drop haha

just so im right you look for haste crit gear

or haste mastery

[balmy condor]

Haste whatever tbh, having 1 piece of verse won’t ruin your entire life

But yes

[solar pendant]

is there a breaking point where the ss build just becomes better. Like whats the haste number you are looking for

i know the traits are obv important and necessary

[strange python]

that's what im wondering too

Could you stabby stabbers take a look at my quick sim? Any suggestions?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gQ43SN9kHaPc9st5aQS2Wx

I'm kind of thinking about ditching IS3 for 2 more expedient 3's but idk

[steady prairie]

is there such as thing as too much haste?

[solar pendant]

like ss build sims like 1k lower then toxic blade atm. but i think the ss build will do more damage in raid

[strange python]

I like my stars

i also have the H nzoth shoulders i could swap out

Too much haste? No, but at some point other stats might be more valuable

Like haste Vers and hast mast legs sim lower for me than Vers Mast wrathion legs in the end

[balmy condor]

Take this with a HUGE grain of salt, but from what I’ve seen, people seem to start seeing exsang/SS pull ahead at around 30-35% haste baseline. Depending on your azerite and trinkets, etc

[tropic ocean]

@solar pendant just press bis on everything that drops

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[solar pendant]

haha

[glacial steppe]

do bonusrolls have a bad luck protection?

[cobalt pelican]

to some unknown degree, yes

[primal grove]

what is the logic behind using deep stratagem versus vigor?

i see vigor being used for keys and deep stratagem in raids with the exang build

[strange python]

I'm rocking 39% haste, simming the exang build, kinda excited to see if it puts me higher

[viral valve]

High haste increases energy regen, which removes the need for vigor, in keys you run crit/vers, so you still need vigor there

[primal grove]

i dont have the luxury to swap gear around much so im stuck with high haste in keys, would you say deem stratagem is better in keys, with high levels of haste?

[strange python]

Exang build gives me +738 dps, don't think it's worth at this point lol.

[primal grove]

and when using deep stratagem do i envenom when 1 mutilate gives 4 combo points?

[lethal bobcat]

when do you trigger plumage?

in the incital burst?

together with vendetta right?

[viral valve]

I just macro it together with vendetta and forget about it

[lethal bobcat]

ah nice

[tropic ocean]

to some unknown degree, yes
@cobalt pelican gonna coin 9 or 10th nzoth today

[balmy condor]

@primal grove DS is good for raids because we’re usually hitting 1 target and we’re stacking haste, so we get a lot of envenoms off, and we would be overcapping with vigor. Rupture damage also helps with 6cp/exsang.

In keys, you run vigor because You’re mostly spamming fan of knives anyway. It’s all garrote/fok, with random other damage in there as well. It also helps out with bosses because we run high crit for the eb damage, so single target has energy problems

[tropic ocean]

if its again ap im gonna report you to the authorities

[cobalt pelican]

did you get succesful coins on noob bosses inbetween

[tropic ocean]

1 on cara

id before

like i bonus rolled dagger of cara

[balmy condor]

If you don’t have a set to swap out and you’re running exped in dungeons then I would run deeper for the same reasons listed above

[tropic ocean]

every other coin on 9 or so cara/Nzoths was ap

[wide ridge]

at what % base haste do we ditch minor lucid dreams?

[tropic ocean]

sim

im at 70% and lucid si worse

250dps or so

[wide ridge]

are you using bote major or clf

[strange python]

i got iris r3 same vision flame r2 and breath r1 now blood of the enemy r1 shud i replace breath with blood?

[tribal obsidian]

I thought coins had bl protection that after 3 ap you got an item guarantee

[tropic ocean]

clf

[tribal spear]

hey guys.

iam frustrated. can someone tell me what iam doing wrong?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DcgG1qdH9TCFf2bw#fight=39&type=damage-done&source=23

[strange python]

can someone tell me what i shud use

[cobalt pelican]

3 coins is definitely not true

i don't think anyone knows the specifics

[tough fable]

ive heard 7

[strange python]

breath r1 or blood of the enemy r1

[rancid bobcat]

last time i looked it up i think the answer i found said coins either have no bad luck protection or are on a per-boss basis

[strange python]

anyone?

[sick oyster]

Sim it?

[strange python]

i never sim

[late helm]

what haste level would u drop memory of lucid dreams?

[strange python]

but i dunno when to use it? use it with vendetta?

[sick oyster]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-battle-for-azeroth-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[true kindle]

guys do you use crimson tempest on ST?

[tropic ocean]

@cobalt pelican

[sick oyster]

@late helm the haste lvls it sims better

[tropic ocean]

8coins

[cobalt pelican]

huge

grats, nearly 100 neck!!

[tropic ocean]

think blp is a myth

but damn that fight got boring

we kill boss before lust ends lol

[sick oyster]

Cara daggers are a myth

[tropic ocean]

@sick oyster

🤔

[sick oyster]

😡😡😡

[main forge]

I need another cara or wrathion dagger drop for gushing/expedient... but if our other rogue shows up and doesn't get one, I'll give it to him 😦

[harsh sphinx]

i can gamble goraks 3-4 times. but not loot a dagger from a boss

[frozen karma]

My guild killed nzoth pretty quick yesterday, 10:38, turns out we're 18th in speed lol

Was 15 yesterday tho

[tropic ocean]

yea we just did 10.43

its a joke now

[frozen karma]

Yeah

[tropic ocean]

still need to figure out how to improve log

mage locks hunters melting every tents

[frozen karma]

Just play with ferals and other scuffed classes like me :)

[rose sapphire]

Rip Cara dagger for real 😄 like 12 kills?

[main forge]

When I came back to play, at the start of Covid, my old guild just had downed Heroic N'zoth. And they were carrying guildies for AOTC. And it was taking like 15 minutes I swear. Heck, my DPS was crap for the most part, took me 3 kills to get used to the fight.

But currently its just a smash fest, 8:30 kill.

[twin robin]

Guys quick question Infinite stars rank 3 on 475 or 3xexpedient rank3?

[fleet whale]

so is 35% crit too high for assassination?

and expedient 3

[tropic ocean]

no?

its a sim question

[twin robin]

when i sim myself it look like IF sims better

but i dont like random factor of IS

[fleet whale]

it's a joke, about the 32-34% sweetspot 😛

[hollow gyro]

IS will always sim better on pure st patchwerk

[fleet whale]

IS 3 also just has way too much corruption

[hollow gyro]

in an actual raid boss encounter the moment u get bad rng or another target comes in to play it drops value hard

exped 3 way better

otherwise use TA instead of stars

[twin robin]

sim look like this https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gcQ51Vg5NZN6jSfa3Km1Jy

[main forge]

Most raid fights are not patchwerk fights. Only one that comes close is Shad'har. The rest all have multiple targets

[twin robin]

i dont have TA

[fleet whale]

I was stuck using both IS 2 and TA 2 at the same time but i found IS to be far more reliable honestly

compared to TA

[steep obsidian]

run lots of IS and see if you can 1 shot yourself on maut during reflect

[twin robin]

so maby any advice guys how i shoud set sim to get more accurate result?

[main forge]

I think IS just "feels" better as it gives a giant jump in DPS when it hits. Whereas TA, and expedient barely register when it triggers.

[tropic ocean]

sim patchwerk 5 min

and apply some logic+ wcl

[fleet whale]

IS 2 was always 8-10% of my total damage, barely ever higher or lower

meanwhile TA could either be 2 or 15% of my damage

[hollow gyro]

TA is just dependant on ur luck, it either pops off or does fuck all

also @twin robin exped 3 isn't simming good for you cos it's best to use the ss trait and exsang with it

[fleet whale]

if you're gonna use damage proc corruption i would stick with GW

[idle nova]

i'd imagine most of the people asking about using IS are probably still doing some sort of prog, and during prog you should favor the consistency of other corruptions over IS rather than praying to the RNG gods

[hollow gyro]

for sure

[tepid ridge]

what's the actual fuck with CT used in ST?

[near pilot]

keep bleed up use env is theres still time left on it?

[drifting cloud]

pb bad, haste good, haste makes ct become better than pb

[idle nova]

CT scales better with extremely high haste than pb

[fresh vine]

Hello! New to Assasin rogue in m+ and I want to play it in 20 m+ keys or higher, what corruption would you say is good? 🙂

[tropic ocean]

crit crit dmg

[hollow gyro]

severe/strikethrough for m+ probs

[fresh vine]

Thanks! Is it any mastery/haste cap?

[tropic ocean]

no

but u want crit/mast

crit/vers

[hollow gyro]

not really just sim ur toon

[tropic ocean]

on ur items

[near pilot]

in 17's and lower you could totally get away with using this Exp build in all situations

raid/M+

ive been topping out around 70-80k overall, so anything real high is when you need the ream m+ builds

[fresh vine]

Yeah so prob what I want to do is get that severe/strikethrough and then sim and balance out with rest of the gear

[desert kelp]

at what time should I reapply CT?

[sick oyster]

Pandemic at 30% left is fine

If it happens to be buffed by exang let it drop an re apply

[desert kelp]

ok

so uhh like 3 seconds is alright

ty

[pseudo hamlet]

i made that pastebin not ausrr @pseudo hamlet
@strange python oops, didn't know it! Then thanks to you!

[sick oyster]

Does anyone have a WA that makes bleeds glow when buffed by subterfuge?

[worthy moat]

Finally got a second dagger to start foolin around with Sin. If I'm gonna buy a mythic azerite, what would be best to buy for Sin traits?

[main forge]

Gorak Tul? It is the one that is harder to achieve iirc

[sick oyster]

The raid has pretty good pieces else you could gamble shoulders to get goraks

[main forge]

and its BiS

[worthy moat]

Shoulders, kk. Also, what enchants does Sin want atm for weapons? I assume Quick cause it really wants haste right? What else

[main forge]

deadly/quick

[worthy moat]

Kk thanks! I'll figure the rest out. Thanks much

[hollow gyro]

@sick oyster don't think you can track buffed bleeds with WA since the bleed debuff on ur target doesn't change

[woeful minnow]

you can

[hollow gyro]

how do you do it

[last ingot]

I have a 460 vita, 475 galecaller and 475 hummingbird, am i right to assume that I should take galecaller vita combo to raid, and vita, hummingbird to m+ (from what i have)

[woeful minnow]

wish I could explain how to set it up, it's just built into the WA set I use

[hollow gyro]

do you have the link for the WA set

[woeful minnow]

you can search luxthos rogue on wago

I think a lot of them have it

[hollow gyro]

right ty

[lime cove]

I use luxthos WA and it's very nice

[worthy moat]

Rolled Shoulders but they're sucky. RIP

[lime cove]

he has a full pack of WA's and videos on how to setup if you are unfamiliar

[hollow gyro]

ye i just wanna see how he did the buffed bleeds

[sick oyster]

@woeful minnow thx my pack broke during legion i think

@hollow gyro its some aura coding into the WA

[radiant quail]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[glacial steppe]

finally looted the chest from cara

only missing the dagger now

[tropic ocean]

change name

[glacial steppe]

to?

[tropic ocean]

Kürass der gefolterten Fleichbestie

[twin bay]

or to deleteallmannclient 😄

[sullen cloak]

Is there a list BIS from mythic + and raid?

[atomic falcon]

guys, i'm sorry if this is a dumb question, new rogue here, what main azerite traits should i aim for?

[tropic ocean]

for raid 3ss 2 hod 1 bbi or 3 dd + hod +ttk w/e for m+ 3 ss 3 eb

[strange python]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[strange python]

I think 455 can wait till 460 plus

[glacial steppe]

@tropic ocean the name is too long

[strange python]

But it's not really a big deal. U get echoes easily and there are other corruptions out there

Don't u get 460s from heroic warfront

[lone junco]

@last ingot GC is pretty annoying to use. But it will open really nicely with exang. If you find yourself moving out of the circle a lot, might try a big /use verse trinket

[rigid eagle]

lul i wish i had a galecaller for wrathion fight

its prolly a pog trinket when the whole encounter is about standing still lol

[main adder]

When is it best to use Blood of the Enemy or CLF?

as major

[shut garnet]

are you asking which one is better?

[slim pebble]

I see the post related to weak auras up there I was just wondering what the best one was or what people liked the most?

[main adder]

is it situational?

like CLF for raid, BOTE for M+ ?

[shut garnet]

you always want bote for m+, for raid it's best to sim

[main adder]

ok 🙂

cos yesterday I was recommended CLF for my setup for raiding

just wanted to look more into it

[loud light]

sim it, also consider fight timings if you're planning for a specific boss

[spark olive]

are there any good bleed tracker WA's?

[shut garnet]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[spark olive]

ty

[high wadi]

hey guys, the oldes sticky says crit>vers=>mastery>haste for ST

is that still true with corruption vendor being out and stacking expedient is possible?

[strange python]

no

[high wadi]

the newer stickies suggest stacking haste

[strange python]

with expedient no

[high wadi]

kk

[strange python]

haste > crit = mastery > vers

but simming is just better

[high wadi]

so i might just not care about vers for now

yeah i will sim for sure, but just to get an idea so i dont have to sim every piece i have in 300 sims 😄

so i might just stack haste and try to keep crit and mastery on some pieces without caring about vers and start simming from there on 🙂

[strange python]

tbh with expedient most of the times if it has haste it is good

[high wadi]

😄

i can choose where i want to have my expedient corruptions on

[rigid eagle]

hey guys is there a link/stick for single target openers with CT

[high wadi]

but yeah i think i get the point haha

[strange python]

it's in the pins @rigid eagle

oh

with CT

just use it instead of envenom in pinned opener

[rigid eagle]

okie ty

wait so with that opener

we're not exsanging CT

[strange python]

no

[rigid eagle]

interesting

imma try that

[echo crest]

when i vanish for first time, after empowered garrote finish should i garrote twice like on the opening?

[strange python]

yes

[fallow estuary]

Can you play BotD Major and 1shit every explosive? 🤔

[strange python]

don't use gar > rup > gar though

[high wadi]

if u dont have explosive in target they wont get hit, do they?

[strange python]

no they wont

[rigid eagle]

pressing tab also never redirects targeting to explosive for some reason

[strange python]

just click it 5Head

[high wadi]

there are some sweet explosive WAs that light the plates up so they stick out

[rigid eagle]

i mean i see them

but the clicking hitbox is legit

smaller than my dick

[wide delta]

anyone know how i can find out how much insanity ppl lost at nzoth?

[red plaza]

I remember watching Raz's raid stream and he was mentioning the ST opener is depending on if the first mutilate crits.

So if crit: g>r>g>vend>mut>6cps > rupture > exsang > bote > mut > mut > ct > etc.
if no crit: g>r>g>vend>mut>5cps>CT>mut to 6 cps > rupture > exsang > bote > etc.

Just got back in to playing Rogue, so I just always end up doing the first one even if it's a 5cp rupture to build the muscle memory. But please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems the VOD is gone 😦

[strange python]

it is correct but iirc the difference was like 0.2% or smth

[shell atlas]

anyone has an weakaura to track empowered garrote?

[atomic falcon]

guys, is sceant of blood azerite trait worth it or no?

[strange python]

Sim it @atomic falcon

[lethal bobcat]

is CT better then bomb?

[strange python]

sim it

@shell atlas https://wago.io/fODt2lJCS i think this one works

[lethal bobcat]

ok but even for ST?

or CT is purely AOE?

[strange python]

it's better on ST too on high enough haste

@shell atlas https://wago.io/ByPIbMmR7 this works too

[lethal bobcat]

cuse its another bleed?

[shell atlas]

thx

[lethal bobcat]

im sitting at 58% haste

41% crit

[strange python]

sim it

bugzy

[lethal bobcat]

ah fine xD

[strange python]

no other way ot find out

[lethal bobcat]

ok so where do you put CT in the opener on ST then? sorry to bother

[strange python]

if u play ct

u use it instead of envenom in opener

u can min max it

So if crit: g>r>g>vend>mut>6cps > rupture > exsang > bote > mut > mut > ct > etc.
if no crit: g>r>g>vend>mut>5cps>CT>mut to 6 cps > rupture > exsang > bote > etc.

but if you dont want to it's like 0.2% dps diff

[lethal bobcat]

so i cna just use the no crit rotation right?

xD

[strange python]

Nah

u can always use pinned opener

[lethal bobcat]

ah ok ok

so i dont use CT on opeener

[strange python]

instead of envenom yes

[silk root]

Dude whats the talents for M+ inis for this weekly affix?

[lethal bobcat]

i see

[vital haven]

blood minor seems to be simming higher for me than void minor

hmmmm

[strange python]

link?

[vital haven]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jGhu3a9j12n9CtY3MzJrYS

[strange python]

those daggers 😮

[vital haven]

i do have symbiotic presence at 90% uptime

but idk 100% seems not realisitc

[strange python]

Mby void sims higher with blood major

[vital haven]

ashhh true good point

[strange python]

how long are your fights?

[echo crest]

ruptures and envenom allways at 5/6 cp right'

?

[strange python]

ye it does sim higher with blood major

Yes ace

[vital haven]

well 4 if not specced into deeper strat

[strange python]

yes

[vital haven]

4/5*

but ye

[strange python]

U got long kill times Nairda?

[vital haven]

nah we are getting really fast

[lethal bobcat]

8 exp3?

[strange python]

Worth to use blood u think?

for usage?

[lethal bobcat]

though the ideal would be 7 exp3 + exp2 + honed mind 3

[vital haven]

i do have 7

blood vs clf

[lethal bobcat]

oh nevermind

[vital haven]

im a big believer in clf

[lethal bobcat]

so one of them wrong

xD

[vital haven]

it outperforms blood in sims even in really short fights

[strange python]

I see

[vital haven]

but there are really good rogues that use blood

[fringe mortar]

Hi guys i have a question, https://guybrushgit.github.io/WarriorSim/ is the same for rogue ?

[strange python]

ye

[vital haven]

so cant go wrong with it either

[strange python]

is that classic?

[vital haven]

thats classic stuff @fringe mortar #classic-discussion

is the proper channel

[fringe mortar]

ok thanks

[strange python]

how much haste u got nairda?

[vital haven]

79%

[strange python]

Nice

Clf and blood both works so

[lethal bobcat]

79?

wtf?

[strange python]

I guess blood minor is just too good 😄

[vital haven]

ye which is weird

blood minor was considered not good

[lethal bobcat]

how much crit/mastery do you have?

[vital haven]

32%crit and 42% masteruy

[strange python]

idk I guess the haste buff is valuable with expedient?

[lethal bobcat]

damm

im the other way around

but only 58% haste...

[strange python]

Just got back from a break so now I have to grind for my expedients 😦

[vital haven]

youll get there

do low cr arenas

[strange python]

dude

[vital haven]

fastest way to get echoes

[strange python]

I got 21 visions

xd

Think I can buy 3 more from visions only

worst part is back resistance

[surreal solar]

full clear no masks, get 750 echos per run

[strange python]

nah just full clear with masks

need ot get them sockets too

Which is 15750 so

[surreal solar]

you only get like.... 1k more mementos with masks

[strange python]

I get 6k per I think

you know crystals and chests

[surreal solar]

unaffected by masks

[strange python]

Oh really?

Well I'll take my 21k extra mementos 😄

wowhead says difference is about 4k though

[sand whale]

you definitely net in more than a 1k difference no mask to 5 mask

just garrote everything and win

[lethal bobcat]

chests are affected by masks

crystals arent

also mobs are affected by masks too

dont know what you on about xD

5 masks = 5k a run

no masks is about 3k maybe

[sullen pagoda]

probably less

[rocky ibex]

What should i improve or get?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o5AvmvPEjc7jVQFG55xCMH

[young portal]

Mecha rings, Plumage, more sockets

[rigid eagle]

480 gorak tul

[glacial steppe]

@rocky ibex breath minor

[steep plover]

How big is the difference between 460 mech rings and 465

Is it worth trying to farm 465 version if i have a 460 for example

[viral valve]

Sim it, but I believe you lose out on around 12 haste and 2 mastery

[crisp flume]

Hi guys! Is it worth taking a 430 ring over a 455 if it gives me 350 haste? If so i'll best be stacking the 12% haste right?

[steep plover]

Right sweet

[viral valve]

Haste isn't that big until you start stacking expedients. If you're picking between 430 and 455 items, I would just go with ilvl.

[crisp flume]

I'm at 361 ill rn, 359 with diff ring, but it scales 5% haste

[sand whale]

sim it, just don't slap exp3 on that 430 ring if it's better

i mean unless you really want to I guess

[kind lantern]

feels like a waste of echoes to use them on anything below ~465

[crisp flume]

No wont get exp3 on it, might just keep it till get better ring

[kind lantern]

unless you're really swimming in echoes and it will let you 5mask visions or whatever

[frail folio]

So quick question I've noticed none of the top io people run IS or TD it's all Sev and strike. Is this a dps boost or just to keep dps more consistent?

[main forge]

Yes, thats why they are top.

IS is worthless for M+, nothing is alive for it to hit 10 stacks on one mob

[reef herald]

Anything specific I that I'm missing besides the later mythic pieces and sockets? For some reason gushing sims better then exp 2 for me.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eZAPnN4YYRrAqh2xjTRHcL

[main forge]

TD is great when you have a ton of HP like tank. but pure dps does not have a lot of health to make TD hit hard

[forest arch]

when do you go with crimson tempest?

[viral valve]

Raidbots defaults to 100% uptime on formless minor, is that realistic?

[woeful minnow]

when it sims better

[stuck island]

Hey guys, quick question, with the Exp III in vendor i made my way to grab 7 but i had a Severe III and for some reason it sims quite better than applying a Exp III instead, im running 66% haste with 6 ExpIII not sure if i should just get into the full haste build regardless. Thanks for your comments!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wQTiZknNdNKNN6PpGKUsBQ

[arctic walrus]

did you sim the correct amount of times it would apply exp 3 to your gear?

[stuck island]

Applying a ExpIII instead of the Severe III would get me a +494 dps increase, not sure if i should wait till i can grab a ExpII and match the sim i just linked, which has the SevereIII instead of the ExpIII

[arctic walrus]

some exp 3s should end up simming better

let me see what I can come up with rq

[sand whale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/atbYQ7AFwZA7w8fbphDJYY

slap that exp3

[arctic walrus]

that works sure if he is buying an expedient 2 next week, he'll get an additional +3 resistance

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4SbN7xqzyCtPcH9HMVn2Y2

so if you'd like you can pick up 2 expedients this week

[shell atlas]

hey guys, what can i improve here? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3xQTBpTD1RhcSF3f4Mthhh

[stuck island]

Thanks guys! will do apply both Exp3 on tuesday then, tyty! appreciate it!

Guess im just not so good with simming, ty!

[arctic walrus]

Get more sockets, behind the back ring, 480 goraks, drop the vers nav probably, 465 haste ring, plumage/gale and vita

[inland garnet]

How important is getting both rings at 465 compared to 460 or even 455?

[sullen pagoda]

they are easily farmable

why settle for less

[shell atlas]

I offered 100k for 460 vita

And a guildie kept it

I insta left the RAID

[inland garnet]

Might be true still not a proper answer to my question imo

[steep plover]

I put an expedient 3 on a 460 mecha ring did i fuck up 😥

[meager spear]

I have a 450 coral is that good for us? I know it is for other classes

[arctic walrus]

I mean sure it's fine just not technically the best you can get

yeah coral is good unless you start stacking expedients

[viral valve]

Average 14 workshops is a lot of time to spend to spend, nothing wrong with settling for a little less

[sullen pagoda]

where did u get 14 workshops from as average

[meager spear]

So basically until im able to start stacking haste

[inland garnet]

well there are not only other items in workshop but you dont get a drop everytime and not the right ring every time you do get a ring

[arctic walrus]

the higher you stack expedient the more valuable each point of haste will be, for me personally 5 ilvl drop in ring is 1.1k

[viral valve]

3/5 to get an item per key, 1/8 for that item to be the right ring. Comes out to 13.3

[meager spear]

So same thought process then with expedients as an arms warrior

Haste becomes king with more ranks

[stuck island]

I mean if u use a 460- item u are loosing basicly a socket amount of stat

[arctic walrus]

correct but arms just scales way better with each expedient

[steep plover]

To get the overclocking bit band u just farm workshop right? And ideally 12 or above?

[meager spear]

Okay makes sense then

[arctic walrus]

14+

[viral valve]

A 460 bit band loses just over 1/3rd of a socket, less for the logic loop

[steep plover]

Aight sweet 14+ it is ty vel

[inland garnet]

how much does a 455 loose out on? also thanks for all the explanations

[sullen pagoda]

Honestly just get a group of friends and do it

[stuck island]

Whats the actual benefit from the meca rings? the 200ish haste from the effect? cuz if we stracking haste there are more options right?

[sullen pagoda]

I have multiple sets of them on basically every character

[arctic walrus]

you can just sim each level of +5 and how they do against each other

welleven before stacking haste the haste one was great to have

but now they're way above any other ring you can get

[sullen pagoda]

@stuck island its literally free 3 sockets that cost nothing

[glacial steppe]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vsMmHCF52NrPCirm76aeFp hmm, i feel like even with cara dagger id sim quite low

[slow helm]

im at 61% base haste anything i should change? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jQSjFyoSRGGMsk1pYzXKgZ

[viral valve]

It's a lot harder when you don't have a steady m+ group. Especially if you don't have the io to get into decent groups

[solar flicker]

then run your own key and get decent io lol

doesnt take much to get into 14s

[arctic walrus]

your azerite is horrible, you don't need vision minor, add way more sockets, get mecha rings, stack more expedient 3s over 2s

[stuck island]

@sullen pagoda Yeah, i see that, but u have to use the "critic one" for the effect right? so you would only get like 600 haste, when u can get 750 from another pair of rings and dont need to worry to activate the effect.

[slow helm]

@arctic walrus i bought the 2's because last time 3 was there i didnt have enough xD

[sullen pagoda]

crit and mastery are 2 2nd strongest stats

[arctic walrus]

well 3s up right now

[slow helm]

and i bought 3 so far nearly 4

[sullen pagoda]

so you dont lose stats by wearing the heavy crit one @stuck island

[slow helm]

dont worry im trying to change it all xD

[sullen pagoda]

since u still want crit

[slow helm]

what should i run insted of vision @arctic walrus i mainly used vision to get vendetta timed with my guardian

[stuck island]

@sullen pagoda Yeah yeah im not saying you are loosing stats, but maybe some other combinations might work as well as those two?

[warm parcel]

nop

its literally 200 stats for free

[sullen pagoda]

yeah its literally folly

damage that costs 0 corruption

if u want to see it that way

if rings actually had less base stats cuz of the effect they would be balanced

[stuck island]

That makes alot of sense, from that perspective. Thanks!

[sullen pagoda]

but atm they are nuts

[arctic walrus]

you aren't even running lucid, I doubt vision is simming better than that

[slow helm]

dont feel like lucid ever got into use since i were stable on energy cuz of the high haste but ill try simming that

[arctic walrus]

it's not about the energy

It's 60% uptime on a large vers buff

[stuck island]

Lucid looses its benefit if u run alot of haste, formless void is a really good option for raid content

[sullen pagoda]

vision minor is literally 0 dps gain if u arent running something like 3x np since it delays it anyway

especially 3x ss u are trying to play

[warm parcel]

yall prasing void like its the replacement for lucid

yet everytime I look into dropping lucid on a char its replaced by bote minor

stop running bote major

[sullen pagoda]

clf major player

[arctic walrus]

⭕

[sullen pagoda]

detected

🤢

[glacial steppe]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/221JoUGAxwQPAF2MjhFKcZ hmm p close, 1 more neck lvl and i could hit 110k next week (if i drop both daggers in one kill that is)

[slow helm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9BkNHgNZEHCTRQPkHinjo4 so i changed azerite traits in this sim

[scarlet sequoia]

[glacial steppe]

@scarlet sequoia whats your necklvl

[arctic walrus]

and you're still not simming lucid

[scarlet sequoia]

103

[arctic walrus]

weird man

[sullen pagoda]

weirdChamp

[slow helm]

i said "azerite traits" not all got those juicy big sim available @arctic walrus

got another sim running with essence's

[stuck island]

When would you say crimsom tempests overrun poison bomb? after a certain amount of haste?

[glacial steppe]

when it sims better

[solar flicker]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5ENPJDopud9jVQEs5zMHm2
Should I just say fuck it and run bote major and the 475 exp pants over the socketed severe pants?

[sullen pagoda]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wVBq6ArAQQ6YwYbkU4LQXq at 80% haste poison bomb is pretty big dps loss @stuck island for me

[sand whale]

finally another fellow rogue who's yet to have goraks I feel less alone

tho I coulda bought a few if I didn't gamble lol

[slow helm]

@sullen pagoda why vers mastery pants? 🙂

[sullen pagoda]

o yea i couldve bought long time ago but im committed to gamble

cuz i dont have expedient 2 on anything else

so this outsims haste legs i ahve this week

[slow helm]

oh okay understandable then 😛

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xdRE2nfpEYhQavHsTz5uWp

[stuck island]

@sullen pagoda Thanks mate appreciate it, i feel it is a quite change to the rotation, but that 1.3k dps increase would definely worh it

[slow helm]

i guess that changed my dps by quite alot

[umbral rapids]

I don’t play sin so pardon my question if it’s stupid

Sin can’t use fist weapons right ?

[sleek pecan]

Right

[umbral rapids]

And you need at least one dagger for most spells ?

[sleek pecan]

2

[umbral rapids]

Ok

Thanks

[fleet whale]

In early wod development blizz considered sin being able to use swords

but it didn't even go through the first alpha build

[umbral rapids]

Hmm?

[fleet whale]

sorry i meant to say swords

[umbral rapids]

Oh ok

I just ask cause some m+ sin logs have no dagger

Unguent caress and diver’s folly

[sand whale]

that almost makes me think they were outlaw

[fleet whale]

that's like an experimental/gimmick build

[sleek pecan]

Yes sounds like outlaw

[fleet whale]

def don't use that as any sort of guideline lol

[umbral rapids]

Well yeah

Except it’s not outlaw...

[slow helm]

no they do urgent and then use fan of knives insted of mutilate

[fleet whale]

no, they are sin

[slow helm]

even single target

[fleet whale]

i think a hivemind log is like that?

[sand whale]

these sneaky bleedibois

[fleet whale]

they are just trying to bring back the FoK meme build

[slow helm]

sounds like diablo to me xD

[umbral rapids]

You can still rupture and garrote ?

With no daggers ?

[fleet whale]

yeah

[slow helm]

if i remember right then yes

[umbral rapids]

That’s kind of messed up lol

[sleek pecan]

Indeed

[umbral rapids]

Yeah 809 casts of fan of knives

[slow helm]

i saw ryfie do it in m+ to test it

seem'd shit to me

[umbral rapids]

Can you even equip a fist weapon though ?

[fleet whale]

yes

you can even equip a gun or a bow if you want to

[umbral rapids]

Okok

[slow helm]

ye those good old stat sticks xD

[rancid bobcat]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3SJbdkHBK7gofwiGxomWh6

hmmst

who needs plumage

[umbral rapids]

Thanks for your help guys :)

[rancid bobcat]

or formless

[warm parcel]

bote major ➖

[civic hatch]

CT is better st now?

[umbral rapids]

I’m out of here

Your st sims hurt my outlaw soul

[wooden monolith]

anyone have Single target sims that are 100k plus and use toxic blade instead of Esang? Reason I am asking is because I would like maybe some sort or guide to follow

[hidden bay]

Toxic blade

[civic hatch]

Probably read the pins

[sand plume]

I don't think I saw anything in the guide regarding this: is it ok to envenom/rupture at 5 cps instead of 6? is it recommended getting that 6th cp?

[hidden bay]

If U have it u have it

If not then Not

[sand plume]

gotcha, so it's fine to use them at 5cp

[hidden bay]

U dont mutilate at 5

Yes

[sand plume]

right - I didn't think so

Hadn't played DS all expac, so I wanted to confirm.

[hidden bay]

Same rule as u Play with vigor

[eager barn]

when doing CT do you just replace env with CT?

[sand plume]

Second question. Is there a reason that when I garrote at 5cp it sometimes doesn't give me the an extra cp?

Is there something obvious I'm missing?

[novel drum]

@eager barn only when ct is in pandemic/not up

[hidden bay]

CT is just another dot to take care off, refresh within pandemic. Afterwards just stick to normal „rotation“

[novel drum]

the initial dmg ct does is still low

[sand whale]

@wooden monolith https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hVVrDy9xT6KTkTeQBuYW95 but it's literally just my bleed gear with diff azerite

[fleet whale]

yeah getting 100k sim with TB isn't really that hard

[sand whale]

I mean bleed is relatively new the guides all cover how tb works

well not so new but now that everyone can get exp it's gaining traction

[fleet whale]

bleed/exsang def had an odd path this expansion

[wooden monolith]

well im hitting a wall rn at like 96k and ty @sand whale

i just don't feel comfortable with esang

[sand whale]

started as a bleed boi ended as a bleed boi haha

[eager barn]

true, thanks @novel drum

[fleet whale]

it started out good... then it started to scale so poorly that venom rush simmed higher than it, and now with expedient it's good again

[fresh sphinx]

What are the enchants im supposed to be getting on my weapons???

[sand whale]

@wooden monolith as the pins say they sim quite close so you don't need to go exang if you don't like that playstyle

if you've got the set up i.e. dd, hod then stick with tb I say

[civic hatch]

At this point you can play anything you want

[hidden bay]

Most likely if low haste quick/deadly. If high haste quick/masterful. But to be sure sim yourself @fresh sphinx

[strange python]

Should assassination rogues still be going for the Expedient r3?

[fleet whale]

yes

[wooden monolith]

Yeah i read that but just wasn't sure because ever char is diff just skeptical lol but ty for info going to buy as many Expedition's as i can lol

[strange python]

Just Expedient? anything else?

[sand whale]

the only thing that changed for me was from vigor to deeper

[fleet whale]

i think eventually you get honed mind

[strange python]

Okay thank you

[fleet whale]

and maybe gushing wound on a very high level piece

if you are trying to get the highest sim

[strange python]

Is infinate stars r3 trash for rogues?

I know stars fucks with sims

[fleet whale]

i wouldn't say trash but i wouldn't use it

[novel drum]

its hyper niche

[fleet whale]

too much corruption on IS3 limits what other corruption you can use

[civic hatch]

I got 470 haste /mastery socket gloves with rank 3 honed mind but they sim like shit atm with not enough expedients

[strange python]

should I just cleanse it?

Or i have twilight dev r2

[novel drum]

@civic hatch yep. you need more expedient. i run 6 expIII and a honed mind III and raidbots wont let me take off honed mind

[strange python]

that i could cleanse

[novel drum]

TD is probably a tidbit more versatile but thats still pretty heavy on corruption for your budget

[wooden monolith]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/646ynWAQkGwwUKvch51SeY This is my ST no exp or anything

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ceKRes6pXtGhLqwapSuzbN this is with alll exp is it broken??

[fleet whale]

IS will pump up your sim

[twin flint]

you also arent playing SS/Exsang

[strange python]

But is the sim accurate vs in game with IS3

[compact carbon]

How much haste do you need before considering to drop lucid?

[twin flint]

ii dropped it today and had 62% base

[wooden monolith]

So i just need to trust the Expedient even tho its gunna drop my sim?

[compact carbon]

Sweet as, thanks.

[twin flint]

sometimes you just have a feeling like you have tw up, and lucid will super overcap you

@wooden monolith one other thing you need to consider, the fights youre going into, are the 5 min no adds?

[leaden lichen]

on mythic nzoth, im staying up the whole time, if CT is close would you guys use it over PB?

[fleet whale]

an add showing up here and there won't tank the value of IS. Short fights will though

[wooden monolith]

erm were doing prog on raden tomorrow so pretty much

im just concerned about raid only

[sand whale]

@wooden monolith that's good enough to do all mythic bosses if you ask me, if you wanna add to it I'd get sev st for m+ if you do that or start saving for expedients

you're not gonna notice a big difference until you get a few expedients

[wooden monolith]

I can buy 4-5 rank 3's right now but would that be worth it?

[sand whale]

ran a quick sim got you up to 99k but hangon I forgot something lol

that's still with IS3 tho

but that's the choices I guess, exp will beat IS eventually maybe not 5 of them but it's a start you can finish off the rest next rotation and go with a combination of IS and exp

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2FCKLq4PpZ4ZpfzyiW7YPr

ah forgot enchants but yeah squeeze a bit more dps in there with quick nav

[twilit hollow]

Do you actually CLF prepull or after the second garrote in opener

[wooden monolith]

Oh shoot thank you so much that helps a lot!! And I’m gunna grind and see if I get more of them. Thanks again much love @sand whale

[sand whale]

np and I still play tb build on m carapace and nzoth visions minor, lots of cool choices once you get the peices

[slim pebble]

When we vanish after our empowered garrote goes away do we just apply two garrotes so we don't override rupture?

[sand whale]

oh one last thing is the corruption if you're comfortable playing with 56 because that IS3 won't be going anywhere until you can get rid of it

yeah grg CLF ven

[bleak spoke]

MAN what am i supposed to DO when this happens https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tf7TGn3Wj2zQLNvw#fight=last&type=damage-done

like

asdfoijadofjaoisdfj

[sand plume]

So I currently have the ability to have 3 SS but when DD is simming higher. I assume SS is going to be better once I get more haste? Also, ignore the fact HOD isn't being recommended. I'm currently at 10 corruption with 5 r3 expedients lol

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7m8tXg5YvGiHt91RToqat9

when I sim DD is higher*

[strange python]

dd is fine and along the natural path of assa progression

you can still work towards ss because dd/ss both want haste

its like the same shit just that you swap dd/tb with ss/exsang

[sand plume]

From your knowledge/expertise, is there an obvious reason why 3 SS wouldn't be simming better?

Or is that a stupid quesrtion lol

question*

[strange python]

thats really hard to answer

[astral tiger]

Is focused resolve worth the extra cost over unbridled?

[strange python]

for me ss/exsang wasnt an option until i got mythic cara chest

but now you got the vendor and a different progression path kinda

@astral tiger you can use this to sim pots/food and see for yourself: https://pastebin.com/YR4YEKEv

[bleak spoke]

LIKE WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tf7TGn3Wj2zQLNvw#fight=last&type=damage-done WHEN THE BOSSES DIE ON VANISH

ioadjfoiajdofjasodfhjoahdsfoih

this game actually sucks i'm going to bed

[strange python]

sabotage :>

[bleak spoke]

how do you sabotage hc raden LOL

[sand plume]

@strange python interesting. Exsang sims better for me, but not the 3 SS lol. I'll keep just going with whatever sims best for me and stop being skeptical. Thanks for the help

[astral tiger]

tyvm @strange python , that helps a shitton!

[candid axle]

somebody with artifact knowledge msg me pls 2min of your time

[vital haven]

artifact knowledge the ap weekly mechanic that reduces ap reqs for your neck?

[candid axle]

no sry lol i should have said legion artifact

[astral tiger]

Worldvein minor sims better than focusing iris minor, do i trust it?

[tacit charm]

I would not

haste is better then main stat

[astral tiger]

thought so, that's why I figured i'd ask

[vast pond]

Anyone feel like rogues are being forgotten about in the alpha? Seem like every class has gotten major updates after alpha release, but it's extremely rare to even see a single rogue change each patch notes release.

[orchid elk]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

there hasnt been a "major changes for rogues in sl" post from wowhead right?

[vast pond]

Not that I'm aware of

[fringe socket]

how can i do more dmg on maut on wrath https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/malganis/envenoms#difficulty=5

[sand whale]

fixing your rotation and opener for starters

[little sparrow]

Reviewing some logs, is there a reason on some logs ((mostly wrathion, maut)) where rogues are holding vanish for 2 minutes after open to use it on the 2nd vendetta? Is it better to save it until then or immediately when the first empowered garrote drops off using expedient/garrote build

[tame sigil]

Real chads do Maut while stacking Infinite Stars

[cobalt pelican]

those people are usually playing vop minor and have guessed that it's more value to get the garrotes all in vendetta later if no casts are lost

[flint bay]

Does the opener for exsang change when taking Crimson tempest?

[astral tiger]

When using crimson tempest on a raid setting (particularly vex), how does my vendetta windows/opener change?

oh

kek

same question

[flint bay]

lol

Im particularly interested in knowing if i should be trying to fit in a CT before hitting exsang

[astral tiger]

yeah cause CT is only a 14 second so I didn't know if it was worth it or if there were better usages of globals lmao

[woeful minnow]

g r g v m, if 6cp->rupture exsang, if 5cp ->ct, apply rupture, then exsang

or just do the no CT opener and replace your first envenom with a CT every time, it's a slight (like 0.2%) dps loss if you get 5cp on the first mut but it never varies and you can just muscle memory it every time

[astral tiger]

Wait how are you supposed to get 6 CP off one mut?

[flint bay]

you get 3 off the 2nd garrote

[woeful minnow]

^

[astral tiger]

oh shit you right

So if you have 5 cp you CT then mut mut?

[woeful minnow]

yes

[astral tiger]

how about going into my second ven? just vanish > g > r > g > ven > mut > rup if 6 > exang > bote > CT?

And if I have other adds like on vex around, should I bother with rupture or just use CT for max pad?

Cause I assume they won't last the full rup duration

[wary ice]

are their wa's for clockwork heart?

specifically when its coming up next*

[tacit charm]

Do you only use crimson tempest on aoe?

[manic pebble]

If I apply DOTs on the target then use vendetta, do those dots get empowered or do I have to reapply them to get the benefit from vendetta?

[astral tiger]

Not if it sims higher on ST 😛

I believe the dots get empowered

for the duration of the vendetta

[manic pebble]

so that’s how it works, thanks!

[gaunt aspen]

simming for 57k dps and doing 47k..thats not too awful right?

[astral tiger]

That's pretty uhh

Bad

Kek

😄

Umm so what's prio on CT? Do I keep 100% uptime or?

Or are there times when an envenom is more important?

[fleet whale]

depends on the fight. For example you likely won't hit your sim dps on a fight like Wrathion

[astral tiger]

@gaunt aspen oh my b, you mean like as far as meeting you parse, yeah that's good 😄

[gaunt aspen]

i mean i dont think anyone ever hits their sim dps unless they play their rotation 100% perfect

[magic citrus]

do you refresh dots during exansg or does it overwrite?

[cursive cloak]

Is 3x shrouded suff with exsang only good at a certain ilvl? or is it something you should be using from the off? I just got back to game and my rogue is still set up for 3x DD but I have the azerite for 3x SS (Not HoD) at 460 ilvl.

[astral tiger]

it overwrites @magic citrus , never refresh dots early on exsang

[magic citrus]

ty @astral tiger

[astral tiger]

@cursive cloak It's only good at certain haste levels, try to sim yourself and see which sims better

[cursive cloak]

@astral tiger ahh okay, I only have 1 expedient so I almost certain the 3x DD build will run better for me, i'll sim regardless but I am only sat at 2.2k haste

[astral tiger]

2.2k isn't bad, but yeah i don't think it really simmed better until like 4 expedients

[cursive cloak]

it's a shame bc I actually enjoy the exsang build, feels more interactive

[astral tiger]

Anyone know about mecha ring set in drest'agath?

[buoyant wave]

hello consultation I am running shad har mythical they know with what I can remove the slow when it throws the slug and thrown everything and it does not remove it?

[astral tiger]

Nothing

You need tiger's lust

or freedom

@buoyant wave

[novel drum]

havent tried free action potion

does that work lmfao

[astral tiger]

Honestly haven't tried it, but I don't think it's worth if you have a pally or a monk lmao

[novel drum]

yeah lmfao

[astral tiger]

And if you don't have a monk then you have a whole new problem

[novel drum]

just havent thought of it until now haha

we have one pally and one monk and theyre so fucking stingy for some reason

[astral tiger]

Bench em

[sand whale]

do you have a warlock in the raid

[novel drum]

yeah we use gate, but pally/monk dont even bother throwing it out

[sand whale]

tell him to put his pet somewhere, step to it

[tacit charm]

Should I take the trait shrouded suffication if I dont use exanguinate?

[astral tiger]

I know people hate this answer, cause i do too, but sim it

[stuck island]

Hey guys, i would like to know your thoughts about running GW with EXP, like 6 EXP and 3 GW, i have been simming like crazy to see if i should buy another set of EXP or use some GW i bought in last rotation.. Is it really that RNG? or if it seems better is better? like tentacles and IS sim better, but im tired of the RNG thing

[desert orchid]

what's the opener if you are using ct?

[grizzled jay]

same opener but CT replaces your first Env

CT replaces Env whenever CT isn't ticking at high enough haste, basically

[desert orchid]

you ct before hitting exsang?

[grizzled jay]

no

it replaces your first Env

Your opener is Garrote-Rupture-Garrote-Mutil-Rupture-Trinkets/Azerite/Ven-Exsang-Mutilx2-3-CT

that CT is usually just Envenom

[desert orchid]

what about for the aoe packs in m+?

just 4x garrote, rupture one, and then exsang?

[grizzled jay]

Well it's straight better than Env at 4 targets so that's pretty self-explanatory

[desert orchid]

or 4x garrote then ct then exsang?

[buoyant wave]

ty all

[grizzled jay]

Exsang is only ST so it doesn't impact an 'opener' on a big AoE pull at all imo

[vital haven]

@stuck island gw is fine expedient is bis

even on 485 pieces

[eternal bluff]

I haven't played exang in forever, would lvoe to pick a rogues brain about rotation and best use for timing

[vital haven]

check pins there is a guide made already

[eternal bluff]

Will do, tyvm

[pallid barn]

do ya'll use exsang for mythic plus as well or stick with tb?

[astral tiger]

I use this better thing called Outlaw

[north basalt]

On aoe, how many ruptures should I keep up?

[vestal granite]

raidbots telling me stratagem > vigor. Can this be right?

[main forge]

Not sure if it is correct, but I just FoK and rupture a new target until I run out of targets or they dead.

[astral tiger]

@vestal granite at enough haste, yes

[vestal granite]

hmm I m at 26% that does not seem that much to me

[astral tiger]

hmm it's not really

Can you link the sim
?

[vestal granite]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/niJD3sJyK58tiMtFSXf39Q

[drifting cloud]

with bleed its always better

but with alot of haste its better even without bleed

[near pilot]

M+ wisde hopw important is staying under 40 corruption? im at a point where if i add anymore exp3's ill be over 40, i can cleanse my care dagger but then im under 25 and HOD's go inactive

[spark cloud]

this is going to sound super dumb, but for haste > crit=mastery, what exactly does crit=mastery mean? like should i shoot to have similar % of them or does it not matter as long as haste has prio and it doesnt have vers

[fathom swift]

honestly just sim your gear instead of worrying about specific stat %s or amounts

like you don't want to stack vers but at the same time you don't want literally 0%, it's not that bad, but sims are gonna inform you better than a generic stat priority

[near pilot]

for haste build you want crit to be somewhere between 31-35 tho

[fathom swift]

based on what

[near pilot]

infectious mostly

[fathom swift]

?

[patent topaz]

id say around 30

[fathom swift]

throwing out random arbitrary stat %s doesnt make it accurate

[patent topaz]

simmed sockets yesterday and it kept one crit gem and rest was haste

[drifting cloud]

anything over 32.56 is overdoing it, no you dummies sim yourself

[patent topaz]

so for me it wants around 31% crit. idk how much I have from the top of my head

[stuck island]

@vital haven Thanks for your answer! Funny thing is that with GW I can get to 100k in two weeks and with Exp I would have to wait 6 weeks, that's why I'm asking ... Simming is giving me that output, cuz until I can get 9 expIII or either I play with 70+ corruption or I have to wait, and with GW I can do almost the same dps, and with less corruption.

[fathom swift]

it doesn't "want" anything, one character's crit being at 30% doesn't mean that that's the perfect number for everybody else too

[long portal]

It's not entirely inaccurate. if your crit is below that it will become your best stat 100%

[vestal granite]

playing Xsan /DStrat do I now envenom at 5/6 cp or is a 4cp fine?

[fathom swift]

your crit being 29.99% doesn't magically double its value

[vestal granite]

also how to make a Weak aura showing me "quick" rupture and "quick/empowered" garrote?

[long portal]

No, it's not magic at all. but its never 1/2 the value of haste in the first place

[fathom swift]

don't use finishers at 4, I haven't found any weakaura able to track when bleeds are exsanged

[long portal]

I'm giving information from personal experience. im at 29/72/44 and crit is my best stat atm

[near pilot]

luxthos's pack does

[fathom swift]

yes and your personal experience doesn't necessarily apply to a character with different gear than yours

[near pilot]

he has some logic thing in there

[main forge]

Yeah, I am using Luxtho's and it does show exsang

[near pilot]

numbers are green when empowered

[long portal]

Obviously thats correct, but instead of saying "sim yourself" you can provide some contextual information and actually. In this case, my personal gear is irrelevant. at peak gear assa will have around 30% or so crit

[sturdy python]

Sim was the best answer to the original question. Crit=mastery doesn’t mean much once you get to specifics

[long portal]

for sure, if you're trying to min/max in the 10s or 100s of dps department, thats true. But if youre playing at that level, you're probably not asking for help in a class discord.

[near pilot]

having a template to shoot for isnt wrong

[long portal]

^^

[sturdy python]

There’s no template

[near pilot]

theres no cookie cutter

[main forge]

Besides Azerite, Essences

[sturdy python]

Yes exactly, so telling someone to go for 30% Crit isn’t helping anything

[long portal]

There must be an award for whoever says "sim yourself" the most times in here 😄

[near pilot]

yeah was just meaning stats

mine as well just turn off chat if the only answer is sim yourself

[sturdy python]

If the best answer to a question is to sim

Then guess what someone should do

[fathom swift]

templates are more likely to confuse someone than just learning how to sim properly

[long portal]

You can read my above reply which already addressed your comment man

[main forge]

Honestly, from simming stat weights... They aren't all far off for most gearing. Obviously you want to hit soft points like 20% haste and crit and mastery, but that will come quite naturally

[drifting cloud]

yes those are called having items equipped

[main forge]

lol

[near pilot]

lol

[main forge]

yup

at current gear levels anyhow

[fathom swift]

like especially not knowing what his gear is like or what talents/essences/corruptions he's using throwing out a % for your character with basically bis endgame full sockets etc. is more often than not gonna mislead someone

[main forge]

But when crit shows a value of 8.7 and versa is at 7.6.... We are talking about 10s of dps on gear

[long portal]

Exactly kabrai, "misleading" someone into yuge 100 dps differences. Again, it's more about whos asking the question - if hes asking for help in class discord, some basics will go a long way to helping him out vs. "sIm yOurSelF"

[sturdy python]

You didn’t say any basics lol

[drifting cloud]

yeah except when those people then go out of their way to equip lower item lvl gear

[sturdy python]

And you have no idea how misleading you would be, which is the point

[drifting cloud]

to reach some imaginary caps

[sturdy python]

If he sims it he will know what his best gear is

It’s not a lazy answer, it’s the proper one in that case

There are questions that simming won’t work with, that wasn’t one

[main forge]

So for Azerite, SS and HoD is the best right now, Rings you want haste proc ring of mechagon, and trinkets are what ashvane coral and font?

[long portal]

my original comment was defending someone who said you should aim for around 31% crit for the bleed build. which was totally accurate

[drifting cloud]

lmao

[sturdy python]

Based on what proof

[long portal]

sim yourself

[near pilot]

give me an example of a stat question that wouldnt be best answered with sim yourself based off that then

[fathom swift]

He didnt say anything about the bleed build in his question either

[sturdy python]

Ah so you’re proving my point with sim yourself

[stuck island]

@main forge Raden and Plumaje would be bis, coral is a good replacement for Plumaje if u don't have it

[sturdy python]

A stat based question? Probably not really doable

Sims are the only real way outside of m+ possibly

[near pilot]

i got my information from infectious, who has done a ton of real game testing with bleed build, and he recommends 31-34% crit so as much haste as you can, that range of crit then the rest into mast, its a build template

[sturdy python]

Great for him lol

[drifting cloud]

its not a build template its fucking feelycraft

[fathom swift]

Who is infectious btw

[sturdy python]

Do you have the exact gear he has?

[drifting cloud]

its like saying yeah I recommend 29-37% crit

[sturdy python]

No

[drifting cloud]

its just bs

[long portal]

What exactly is your point? Just like to argue? My proof is based on my own character with basically end-game gear and what my current stat priority is while under 30% crit

[near pilot]

just about yeah, thats part of the build

[drifting cloud]

then you lower the range so it sounds less bs

its still bs

[sturdy python]

My point is don’t tel someone to go for 30% Crit when you have no idea if it’s correct or not

And then get upset that someone gives them a better answer

[near pilot]

then lets ban all stat questions since theres only 1 answer

[sturdy python]

Straw man

[fathom swift]

Its like saying "yeah pancakes are my favourite food so they are the best food for everyone based on my own personal tastes"

[long portal]

go armory good rogues and report back their crit % 🙂

[drifting cloud]

youre an idiot

[near pilot]

lol lets name call instead

classy move

[drifting cloud]

like I said its some imaginary fucking range

oh boy I have 35.3% crit at 106k sim

I clearly need to get rid of 1-2%

[long portal]

and you called me an idiot?

[fallow otter]

[stuck island]

I have been following the discussion, so, if I need to sim my self, what I understand is that I don't need to follow any stat build but to find what gives me the best dps in sim, right?

[fathom swift]

Correct

[near pilot]

hes a discord avater, im a dog, this is online not gonna waste my energy lol rogue pun intended

[long portal]

No one said to get rid of anything...but i would bet a haste/mastey item would be an upgrade in a haste/crit slot without looking at a sim

[drifting cloud]

yeah everyone just sitting on socketed same ilvl items in every slot

[main forge]

IDK, probably should sim it

[long portal]

🙂

[sturdy python]

More than likely once you get to top end gear stats start to look similar for those builds @stuck island
Without knowing your gear no one can accurately suggest those numbers as you don’t have that exact gear. So yes, sim what you have for it to tell you your best options as of now

[near pilot]

why do we need class discords if the answer is always "our toons are different sim it"

[loud light]

following prescribed amounts of stats is generally only a good idea if you have some mechanic that has hard breakpoints for certain stats (we don't) or you're something like a healer or tank where everything is just more feelycraft

[sturdy python]

Because every question isn’t about gearing

[long portal]

The overall point was that if you're asking questions about stat weights in class discord, you're probably not an expert and therefore some general advice/input will be helpful. Didn't really need to be a flame war or argument

[near pilot]

but i can sim what talents, what azerites, and what corruptions are better

[sturdy python]

Also, I know of st least one very good rogue in here that has 29 Crit in buffed, I’ll make sure to tel them to get a couple more %

[stuck island]

I understand that, but then how do I know what to farm? Like if I need a haste/mastery hands, I would go to SoB rather than JY, just using the droptimizer then?

[sturdy python]

And you should lol

[near pilot]

then i can look to see what rotation the sim did

[sturdy python]

Almost like that’s what the guides are built off of

[near pilot]

right

so again why have the discord?

[loud light]

so we're all in agreement that you don't need to be here 🙃

[near pilot]

^

[long portal]

Are you really so dense that you don't think he would get a little more of his best stat if it were available? I also have 29% crit and it's my best stat, atm. I would bet it's the same for him

[sturdy python]

You can use stat weight sims to get an idea of the stats you want to look for, just don’t make huge changes based on them @stuck island

[arctic walrus]

when you ask a question that's answer isn't "sim it" then yes, we will answer you appropriately

but a lot of the game is literally just numbers at this point, and any idea you could have specific to your character is so tied to your own personal gearing choices that we can't tell you what to do

[sturdy python]

Typically if you are going for the best raid build then you’re just looking for haste

[long portal]

It wasn't my question, I was just trying to defend this poor guy from these flamers.

[near pilot]

is haste in a raid build a template?

[sturdy python]

No one flames him

They told him he should sim it for the best answer

[fathom swift]

I'm not flaming anyone wtf

[near pilot]

lol ill stop

[arctic walrus]

what about a template

[stuck island]

@sturdy python thanks for the answer, I'm not really sure how to read those reports, but I will give them a closer look

[long portal]

You don't even understand who i was defending dude, just drop it.

[mighty elm]

[sturdy python]

Use top gear to see what the best you have is right now. Droptimizer isn’t a bad idea if you can get upgrades in m+ or raid

[stuck island]

Nice, tyty

[sturdy python]

And for the best raid build you can check the pins for the corruptions needed mostly

[stuck island]

I have a 7 expIII right now, quite solid but always looking to improve

[sturdy python]

Good deal

[fallow otter]

So how much crit should I be aiming for @long portal

[long portal]

Probably low30s% 🙂

[fallow otter]

Ok thanks

[spark cloud]

all this crit % talk, whats your mastery % then lmao maybe thatll solve this arguement

next up for rogues is a straight mastery corruption build, calling it

[strange python]

Any1 use worldvein for main essence in raid?

[fallow otter]

Nope

[balmy condor]

worldvein is kinda yikes

[surreal summit]

Guys, i'm at a crossroad atm. I've got a full crit/versa build for outlaw with 3xSevere, and i'm just waiting for Strikethrough for that build... i'm raiding mythic atm, and i have the BIS azerites for triple shrouded, and i have 20k echoes... should i get 4xexpedient instead, or should i wait till i can actually maximize with 8 expedient?

I can't decide, life is tough man

[fathom swift]

exsang is still good with 4 expedients and expedients are still good without exsang

[drifting cloud]

st is prolly what in like 10-14 days? depending on how much you miss you can get another 15-20k echoes by then without farming like crazy

[arctic walrus]

if you have that good of an outlaw set you can play it fine in raid

[surreal summit]

Well it's pretty much full crit/versa with 475 spyglass and Xanesh trinket

[drifting cloud]

dont remember when it was on the rotation 1st time around exactly

[surreal summit]

Hmm, would require alot of farming for 20k i think