sim suggests formless void instead of lucid dreams is this normal
#assassination
west cove
deft obsidian
Yeah Stabb, at higher haste levels lucid overcaps energy quite a bit.
deft obsidian
The energy return of lucid minor becomes less valuable
west cove
thanks
green saffron
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shy axle
are you guys using clf over blood major if it sims better for you or do you prefer bote due to bossdesign/timings in nya? unsure what do do. My idea was to take clf except at hive,vex,ilgy,drest and nzoth
warm parcel
people use bote cause they like it
not cause of anything else
just like noone uses galecaller
bold orchid
Sims tell me WV should be my major and I feel like I’m getting jebaited
willow pasture
Hey fellow rogues.
I really want get more DPS in raids, but I think I messed up with my stats. I went for crit because I read it´s better for m+. At the Time I was doing mainly m+ content.
Should I exchange all my crit gems for haste gems and start to buy EXPEDIENT corruptions? Can Play with the garrote azerite trait or is it better to go for double dose? Atm I play with 3 times shrouded suffocation.
If I would change everything to haste is it still viable in m+? I dont plan on doing higher than +15 because I lack the skills. But atm I enjoy raiding more :)
I really would appreciate it, if sbdy would find the time to give my some tips.
RIO: https://raider.io/characters/eu/blackmoore/Raktajino
Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/blackmoore/raktajino
sick scarab
dire spoke
how does masterassassin, vigor or tb sim compared to that?
actually
don't mind me you have 5exp already
polar drift
how does CT cahnge the rotation?
grizzled jay
it replaces the first Envenom in the opener
warm parcel
it replaces envenom as a filler if it is down
arctic walrus
Cool 👍
warm parcel
nerd
twin bay
kinda late to the party here but hey im done with bfa i guess
twin bay
nah
strange python
Should i already be using blood of the enemy at rank 1 instead of crucible at rank 3?
cobalt pelican
queueing pvp for anything besides echo farm in current season sounds like self inflicted pain tbh
twin bay
i rather watch some guys thatare know what there doing in pvp..not my cup of tea
strange python
If blood of the enemy is already better at rank 1 then i don't have to do the shitty quests to get crucible to rank 3 so yeah simming isn't going to help with that
tropic ocean
how?
shrewd night
bote aint worth unless its r3
tropic ocean
if its better at r1
u use it obviously
compared to ur crucible
and sim will answer that question for you
shrewd night
wait hol up
strange python
It's just confusing the me which essence i should go for since i never farmed any
cobalt pelican
for what content
tropic ocean
your final raid setup will most likely consist of clf/bote - lucid/breath/formless void/iris depending on ur gear llv
strange python
And ill have to use an essence anyway even if its only at rank 1 because u have no other choice
tropic ocean
and for m+ bote/lucid/conflict/breath
strange python
So going for bote first would be best since it can be used in m+ raids and also pvp i believe
strange python
I could prob get rank 1 in about an hour
grizzled jay
clf super fast too, you just get carried in mythic EP
high siren
any insight on what I should work on from that? What would the best upgrade I could do ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/th8BtE3xy2Z7xr4mEgjirT
(not raiding mythic, or just 3-4 first bosses)
strange python
Which essence do you use for pvp then? Pins in pvp channel said bote
west cove
i doubt that
cobalt pelican
cobalt pelican
generally for m+ i'd probably just recommend if you don't have a main to buy essences from mother just play iris major in m+ till you have bote rank 3, and in raid i wouldn't be surprised if something like flame was your best in the super short term
strange python
Kk thanks
I got like 7 characters to 430 before deciding which one to main so that's why i don't know shit about essences
cobalt pelican
but generally whatever you do you're gonna be playing some not-normal shit cause the essences don't scale linearly per rank, so if you don't have everything at rank 3 power levels are a bit weird
cobalt pelican
best to just aim for the long term good ones (like aus posted for raid) and in the short term just sim what you have
strange python
Ill try getting bote rank 1 and crucible rank 3 and just sim
cobalt pelican
i think the flame quests give ap anyway so
it's not all wasted time
and it might be your best minor for quite a bit till you finish up the better ones
edgy ginkgo
hey guys, with wihich uptime i should sim symbiotic presence?
cobalt pelican
90% is probably fair if your tanks are playing flame major
edgy ginkgo
okay ty
cobalt pelican
if not it's quite low and probably not considerable but i'd guess 50% or something
rustic python
I have a question guys. Honed mind proc does it increase the damage of already applied bleeds? Or does it snapshot on application?
sturdy mesa
tropic ocean
@rustic python increase already applied bleeds
rustic python
Cool thank you
tropic ocean
np man
crimson palm
Your name
raw pecan
lul
tropic ocean
race too
sullen pagoda
cobalt pelican
outside of obvious statements like getting the better items with the holes in them
like cara boots
cara dagger
475 legs etc
seems fine
lime edge
droptimizer adds the corruption i have on said piece when simming, right?
raw pecan
thats right
lime edge
hmm
raw pecan
I can choose between crit/vers+socket 475 or haste/vers + socket 465
tribal obsidian
Do most of you not use CLF? it sims a decent bit higher than bote for me
tropic ocean
only 5 exps
sullen pagoda
i dont even wanna see the sim now when i get more exp
tropic ocean
:p
sullen pagoda
tropic ocean
pretty sure if I update trinket few sockets it will shit on my rogue by 10,15k 😄
hahahahah
crimson palm
crimson palm
Fkin warrs
shrewd night
Wow, send us more arms warrior sims over at #wow-general 
steep plover
Can i ask a dumb question
lime edge
both socketed
hearty crane
Do you want to use CT in single target rotation when doing Exsang build?
steep plover
How does expedient actually work
lime edge
SHARD SIMS WORSE REE
tropic ocean
it increases your haste
raw pecan
amp haste %based
steep plover
Like does it increase ur total haste
raw pecan
% from all sources
tropic ocean
yea
lime edge
total haste
lime edge
haste from all of your items
steep plover
So just from q item
lime edge
not just the item its on
lime edge
yea
tropic ocean
essence
raw pecan
your vita procs 1674 haste = you get 1874 haste (with 1x expedient III )
raw pecan
yeah
jovial spear
At what haste lvls should you start considering going for full haste build? (Currently at 32% haste w/o any expedients)
raw pecan
I am peaking at 180-200% haste when everything procs at once
raw pecan
32% w/o expedients is fine I think
raw pecan
I am at 65%
but I increased other stats a bit
currently at 33% crit 62% haste 4% vers 44% mastery
tropic ocean
only thing I could replace was
gloves from haste vers to haste mastery or smt
then either need to git gud at pvp or get 475 plumage off chest
raw pecan
I got 475 plumage this chest xD
rain sundial
Coral apparently is like, a bis trink, but I got the vita and wrathion trink, what should I swap for the coral?
lime edge
i havent gotten anything good from any of my weeklys
tropic ocean
@rain sundial 
green scroll
Is there an easy to understand reasoning about why we should use a vers trinket ?
lime edge
easy to use
raw pecan
big damage boost for vendetta window
hardy crypt
sorry for interrupting, is there a weakaura which lets you know when you don't have your poisons applied?
upper elm
I see almost noone playing with guardian it sims much higher for me tho, should I use it then? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aUQiRoNGGaJcPJqh2nX7Ga
lime edge
ppl do play with clf
hardy crypt
i had some fights where i didn't have the poisons up and it fucked me over lol
raw pecan
@green scroll it is 2 min cd, as vendetta, it gives u over 15% vers for 20s
biiiig dmg increase
green scroll
so it's because of the amount of vers it gives compare to other trinkets based on other stats mostly ?
tropic ocean
it just lines good
has same duration same cd
and vers is flat dmg buff
no brain trinket
oh and it also outsims coral at some point
warm parcel
people use plum and blood cause they lazy
true kindle
ok i keep simming IS and it is always more dps, how can i tell how bad it is compared to expedient
warm parcel
and want ease of use
lime edge
u can even get a macro to use vendetta and trinket at same time
since trinket is off gcd
which is what i do
green scroll
someone has the simc line so I can add it to my topgear ?
polar drift
how many cp do i use CT at? 5-6 too?
tropic ocean
ya
pseudo hamlet
@true kindle IS is bad in short fights, it's also huge RNG.
sturdy mesa
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/27pnn12xLuSt7XxvJAYjhA anything i can improve or is it just "get more sockets 4Head"
true kindle
@pseudo hamlet yes i understand that, which is why i hate it, but sim seems to love it, doesn't take in account bad rng i guess
warm parcel
it does take
you just dont have a single boss thats afk target dummy hitting for 5 mins
do you
lime edge
just dont sim stars
pseudo hamlet
"final build"
@rose sapphire 👏 looks stronk
warm parcel
cause thats what youre simming
rose sapphire
@pseudo hamlet yeh looking forward to it, made same sim which replaces 1 exp r2 with gw on 485 wep but it sims 100 less so thats what I can push as most
green scroll
How do you guys handle sims, do you all have a raidbot premium with millions of iteration or is there some order to sim like raw stuff first, then corrupt then talent then gems ?
shrewd night
Paying for premium is the best investment I have made to gaming the past decade
cobalt pelican
pretty much anyone who raids actively has access to a premium account i think
lime edge
its worth it
lime edge
wtf lool
high siren
between 5 guilds :d
pseudo hamlet
I sim like 5-6 times with different corruptions/essences
agile spire
i dunno why but Formless Void always sims way less then other essences for me, even with 90% uptime and i have alot of haste : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4A3M3GTRGyB5hvSwkrzgGW just kinda wanna know why
sullen knot
warm parcel
cause it isnt some random haste point where it becomes better
it might be better for you
or it might not be
lime edge
u have to remember
when u run formless void, u lose out on a minor
that minor is just better for u
teal geyser
hey guys ... one stupid question when does the pandemic starts @ crimson tempest ?
teal geyser
thanks mate
lethal bobcat
with 6 Exp3 do you socket full haste?
agile spire
I would sim it but 80% yes
lime edge
it wants me to cleanse it and put exped 3
warm parcel
no
lime edge
perfect pvp piece
warm parcel
it wants you to pvp
lime edge
fuuu
warm parcel
kinda jelly of those gloves
strange python
I learned about exstang build way too late so i went full toxic blade and double dose. is it worth it changing to exstng at this point? already wasted my titan residuum to buy that chest. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t99fZMiA9qvfWM44DXvKrM
warm parcel
but thats 460
lethal bobcat
would you rather go 3x SS or 3x DD? or is it bad to miz them up?
warm parcel
thats a math question
lime edge
im worried that the haste proc ring wont even sim higher than this
unless i drop it with a socket
rip
lime edge
even tho haste proc is about 3 sockets
so itll probably be really close
do i commit to raid and fuck pvp
I CANT DECIDE
tropic ocean
@lethal bobcat pretty much ss on most fights even with lower haste or if dd sims better (depending on how much ofc)
lethal bobcat
aight thanks
tropic ocean
multitarget needs to be accounted when valueing ss vs dd
warm parcel
obviously ss is more flexible
but if youre asking for st numbers
only robot can tell you that
tropic ocean
like in fights like hivemind or raden a 1k dps lead of dd will more likely be outvalued by the cleave gain of ss
placid kindle
any lads purged 485 daggers today 
placid kindle
ye like this blizzard hard trolling with this ring
tropic ocean
😂
placid kindle
and not even mythic ring from nzoth+socket outsims it(even added expedient to it) ???
just telling me to corrupt something else instead 4Head
sullen pagoda
you want to corrupt mechagon rings anyway
lime edge
yea
hardy crypt
do you have any weak auras that show if you don't have poisons up?
i fucked up many times by not applying it before a boss
dire spoke
😐
hidden bay
dire spoke
lol
placid kindle
@sullen pagoda whats your baseline haste if you dont mind me asking
strange python
@hardy crypt https://pastebin.com/Zydsyjjh
dire spoke
lol what
lethal bobcat
what do you play for major essense on ST?
tropic ocean
clf/bote
lethal bobcat
ty
zinc furnace
Gentlemen, heavy expedient stacked here. Given Vita and Dice trinkets sim almost same (+- 150dps diff), would u personally go Vita or Dice?
tropic ocean
so troll is actually masterrace now?
strange python
for horde yes
overall no
but then you cant tmog shoes
and good tmog is dps increase
so
dire spoke
):<
shadow wedge
tropic ocean
flames r real
lime edge
pog
placid kindle
monkaW
sacred yarrow
For exsang builds do you guys prefer haste mast or haste crit
lime edge
whatever sims better
sacred yarrow
Is there a clear winner in 2+ target?
sick oyster
how do you guys handle CT on aoe? at what amount of enemies you just spam it as a finisher?
placid kindle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qNRH3EMmYmCRT9bTbxYS4P should i trust sim with this trinket combo?
tropic ocean
@sacred yarrow yeah raidbots.com
placid kindle
or just roll with vita and plumage
tropic ocean
plumage only starts otusimming at super high haste
also your spyglass is socketed
ur vita is not
and since u dont have gorak tuls, crit is strong for u
placid kindle
yeah thats why im not even too keen on putting expedient on those vers crit legs tho
tropic ocean
it doesnt matter too much
white mountain
Any consensus on whether expedient or severe stacking is the way to go for m+ now? Or if it kicks outlaws ass enough to beat the utility
sullen pagoda
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2eNgoqsWEcdzzd3fykVq7Z plumage still 400 dps behind
someone farm socket for me 
tropic ocean
@placid kindle switchin vers mastery to haste mastery pants is like 300ish dps up for me
so its not super giga what stats on ur item are
strange python
i really wouldnt put corruptions on shit you'll replace soon
but thats me being lazy do what you want
raidbots down?
i had a 503 error earlier, restarting browser worked
yeah ty
swift timber
is the gear even that replaceable if I'm not a mythic raider tho is more or less what I'm wondering I guess
stats seem decent
strange python
oh if you dont have access to high ilvl stuff then yea seems decent
have you simmed non-exsang?
swift timber
still with expedient?
strange python
like dd/tb uses expedient too but might be more forgiving with low stats
swift timber
lemme check
strange python
and use lucid instead of vop
winter gale
Can anyone take a look and tell me if there is something I should change or get some other piece?
steep obsidian
i mean
you need 485 daggers
¯_(ツ)_/¯
and azurite
you can sim those though and see how much it would be
winter gale
Cara daggers and cara chestpiece?
solid vault
@winter gale Boe boots, pants crit+haste from some dungeon, Daggers from Carapace
belt bis stats/ vita 475
and maybe mechagon combo, idk
sullen pagoda
he doesnt need boe boots mythic cara boots will most likely be bis
neon berry
Hey guys, I’m starting mythic progression tonight as assassination rogue. Is there anyone who would be willing to help me with stuff?
solid vault
ye, chest you can change aswell
delicate bone
Mythic progression starting from the first boss?
swift timber
I suppose the 10k between me and urs is basically just raidbuffs right
I believe mine were off
neon berry
Mythic progression starting from the first boss?
@delicate bone I’ve done 3/12 but general progression
strange python
could be yeah
and if you're mythic raiding i wouldnt put exp3 on low ilvl stuff
but you'll keep your rings forever for example
dusty vigil
I've seen alot of people parsing well with SS, exsan and sometimes even CT. Do we have any ressources explaining why this is getting good? Just more haste?
dusty vigil
❤️
strange python
1 hour and a half later and still haven't won a single BG for bote rip
keen dome
me neither
swift timber
alliance or horde
dusty vigil
@swift timber With deeper stratagem, do we use finishers at 5/6 instead of 4/5 or?
keen dome
alliance, ofc
strange python
dont you get honor regardless?
swift timber
odd
strange python
just farm them
swift timber
I thought that's where all the good players went
@dusty vigil I believe it's 5/6 but I'm no exsang expert
strange python
jep alliance haha
i've never lost more then 2 bg's in a row as hore
but happens to me pretty often as alliance
currently at about 7 games lost in a row
russian alliance used to camp in AV and farm honor
swift timber
during the honor bonus week playing horde was miserable
strange python
i've went up vs 2 full premade russian horde teals
i think i might just have to go play my undead rogue again if i want to have fun at pvp
verbal radish
I've been simming DS and Sang for a while, and DS is simming as an increase but Sang hasnt. Is it due to fight length? BOTE also isnt simming higher than World Vein Major. Is this a situation where I ignore the Sims?
strange python
is your bote rank 3?
did you set any wv allies?
and ds beats vigor at high haste levels
verbal radish
Yes. I'm presently at 3796 Haste, which is 56%. My Blood is Rank 3. And I do have WV Allies.
In no sim has Exsang been present at all as being higher, but DS always is.
strange python
set wv allies to 0 to get a better idea but generally i wouldnt play it unless you can stand around 18 secs and tunnel
lean marten
do u have any SS that will increase xang
verbal radish
I have one SS, but its not active(have run it in sims). I could do a second if I dropped my 480 to a 465. I'll try simming with that.
lime edge
is there a macro to automatically swap trinkets on your hotbar
lean marten
link ur highest top gear sim
lime edge
when u use diff gear sets
verbal radish
Will do.
strange python
it changes depending what you wear
lime edge
thanks
verbal radish
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kh6AEV27T5vLpZnLbLraw4 Is this what you're looking for?
Or do you want comparisons with BOTE, Exsang, ETC
lean marten
nah need a top gear from in-game simc
verbal radish
Kk
lean marten
so i can see all ur stuff
verbal radish
And set WV to 0 for this sim you want to see?
strange python
i had to put that in because of discord
lime edge
oh kk
drifting light
Lul
lean marten
just do 1 other option idc ill tweak it
woeful minnow
that definitely works yeah, and 13 is top trinket 14 is bottom trinket
lean marten
do ur highest set ideally
elfin saffron
how come PB still sims higher for me then CT im at 68%haste
elfin saffron
okay so its just the last %haste i need for it to be better
woeful minnow
he's trolling you
he's telling you to just follow the sims, different stats can put pb ahead of ct for any kind of reason
elfin saffron
yeah i know to follow the sims just curious if there was a % you would go to it
limber mango
Question on Maut mythic, is it worth to Run the leech talent?
rustic python
I never tried leech but feint damage reduction is hella nice
prisma cypress
can someone explain to me the pros and cons of stacking twisted appendage vs expedient? looking at top logs there appears to be no consensus
ive played outlaw most of this tier
sullen pagoda
TA is if u want to not be rewarded for your play but put your damage in hands of rng gods
rustic python
Twisted appendage is proc based. Expedient is more stable
prisma cypress
is one considered better, or in combination with certain gear or azerite traits or something?
strange python
got myself murky signet band 475 with crit stack corruption from weekly
top logs reflect the luckiest of lucky TA procs
not your average unlucky joes pull
and bomer jacket chest
got eb and ss with it
verbal radish
@lean marten Shared it above, if you didn't see. Thanks.
lean marten
workin on it
raw pecan
what do you guys think about clockwork heart instead of blightborne infusion?
tight canopy
how to use ct in a single target rotation
frozen jewel
How much haste would you want for the crimson build?
lean marten
@verbal radish https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6FpqmNc88Q5MQEweCCGexN This is what i ended up with, adding an exp3 to boots. I think your head and chest azerites are holding you back the most at this point
gaunt yew
sims almost same for me (-48dps), depends on your gear probably @raw pecan
raw pecan
ok thanks
young portal
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cobalt pelican
clockwork heart shoulders generally better the more of your damage is in the opener
like i'm pretty sure in most profiles they'll be better on 3min sim
verbal radish
I'll give this a look for a moment. Thanks @lean marten
cobalt pelican
and it's usually +/- negligible difference on 5min
only issue on longer fights is the 1min interval timer can overlap badly (wrathion intermission if you aren't apeing the boss, etc)
raw pecan
if only I didnt scrap them
ornate gazelle
if i have a normal square icon weakaura that shows up for garrote/rupture/ct, where in the weakaura can i add an affect for when its empowered?
verbal radish
I hadn't read the CT stuff until seeing it in the chat today. Is that another dot you try to time up the best before Exsang?
lean marten
yes but not in the opener xang
ornate gazelle
you use ct in the exsang opener
lean marten
depends on CP rng technically
tight canopy
do i use CT before exsang on opener
raw pecan
so how it is? garrote > rupture > garrote > ct ?
lean marten
no it replaces the first envenom, is the short answer
tight canopy
thats in AOE
strange python
@frigid briar
ornate gazelle
pretty sure run of the mill ct opener is
garrote > rupture > garrote > vendetta > mut > ct > mut to 5-6 > rupture > exsang
raw pecan
but your garrote will be like 15-16s till exs
fleet anchor
100% depends on if you get 6CP with your first Mutilate or not
But honestly just mash whatever tbh the difference is less than 0.2% depending on which logic you use
ornate gazelle
basically just get ct up with empowered garrotes and rupture right before xsang
fleet anchor
If you get 6CP from your Mutilate you just Rupture and Exsanguinate
woeful minnow
no point in doing an opener that changes depending on cps tbh
fleet anchor
Then put CT up after
woeful minnow
for such a small improvement
lean marten
Gar>Rup>Gar>Vend&Trink>Mut>Rup>Xang>BotE>Mut>Mut>CT
fleet anchor
I mean.. it's not hard to internalize, but if you want to ignore it that's fine
lean marten
is my goto opener
last gyro
when top gear says to replace vita with spyglass
how good is that
seems like a meh trade off
raw pecan
my sim told me to use spyglass + galecaller, over vita and plumage
fleet anchor
If Vita is close I would always use Vita just because the party benefit is definitely worth it
last gyro
yeah ym sim told me to use spyglass +galecaller is
raven locust
You wont get to sit in Gale all the time either
jolly finch
galecaller will be a bit of a sim trap i guess
fleet anchor
It's not
Exsanguinate snapshots haste, that's literally the whole point of using Galecallers. You don't have to sit inside of it the whole time to get value.
lean marten
getting 100% utilization on a 1min seems hard compared to like a 2min macro'd in vend
cobalt pelican
the worst part about playing gcb is needing another gem
fleet anchor
SS Rogues used Galecallers all of Uldir, it's nothing new 😛
ornate gazelle
but it generally doesn't pull ahead of other trinkets if you're only using it for snapshot and moving out of it
fleet anchor
That seems pretty hard to believe
cobalt pelican
realistically there's very few movement intensive fights on reclear anyway
fleet anchor
Galecallers is like
cobalt pelican
i can understand not wanting to play it but like
fleet anchor
2.5% higher for me than any other trinket right now lol
cobalt pelican
idk how much you're moving
strange python
if you're playing gcb why not double down and play wv
ornate gazelle
depends on how much you're moving, but i only know how to sim the stock movement options
fleet anchor
Think you are massively underestimating how the GCB and Exsang interaction works
lean marten
but the sime is getting 100% utilization. if u step out for a few seconds or dont use on CD u probably lost that 2.5% no?
fleet anchor
I mean you could make that argument about anything tbh though
ornate gazelle
yes, but it depends on your other trinket options. for instance, when i sim against 475 socketed vita and 455 coral, galecaller's is barely an upgrade patchwerk and no upgrade with any movement in the sim
fleet anchor
GCB is slightly annoying for sure but it's not that bad
ornate gazelle
so i'd sim it and weigh your options
fleet anchor
Given how it gets used in this build
raw pecan
what about vita + gcb? is it too much or ?
verbal radish
Does CT become just another dot to refresh outside of exsang windows? Or is it considered wasted CP outside that period?
raw pecan
I think is overkill a bit
raw pecan
ah ok
fleet anchor
You always get more ticks
cobalt pelican
tbh outside of like
raw pecan
what about crit amounts?
red bloom
any ideas why its favouring the gcb over other trinkets or is it just the socket? that and its swapping out haste gear for crit mastery pieces quite a bit
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tMoNxNKatwB1S4UhtBKj6i
last gyro
xanesh moves as well
cobalt pelican
other rogue in my guild was playing gcb on jaina and that was funny
last gyro
doesn't she ?
ornate gazelle
patchwerk sims will usually favor gcb @red bloom
last gyro
almost at 100k sim wait till i get goraktuls 
fathom swift
even last 2 I've been using gcb for a while and timings are fine if you plan your movement around it
raw pecan
@fleet anchor having for example: 78% expedient, and having around 55% haste, how should I take on other secondary stats?
remote oriole
shrouded suffocation or Nothing personal? ilvl 455
last gyro
on a fight like shadhar would you keep your vanish
- vendetta
for second phase
if fight is like 3 mins only
so it lines up with exa
fathom swift
like especially nzoth the main thing is a couple times it comes up during beams and you just need to drop it next to a beam so you dont need to move during
last gyro
yeah
raw pecan
then you use vendetta when vanish comes back
fleet anchor
How do you mean Dwarfik?
cobalt pelican
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3M92hGCdwxNvFKSu66HXdv this is pretty funny though
fleet anchor
Generally just keep stacking Haste forreeeever 😄
fading adder
In the pinned note about the quick guide to exsang build the prop is haste > crit. And then other guides I see haste > mastery. Should I be stacking haste mastery gear or haste crit gear...
fleet anchor
Other secondary stats end up being pretty close
raw pecan
other secondaries doesnt matter?
desert kelp
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iXzY4kHECRzhVnPFVZ23Qm should I apply my 7 Expedients to my gear or should I wait, can't seem to pull out a higher sim than this
fleet anchor
To each other
raw pecan
I have very low vers, but it is being backed up by lucid
raw pecan
crit is blightborne
fleet anchor
@desert kelp Hard to say.. I think some of those I wouldn't do
But depends on how much you plan on changing your gear
desert kelp
Well, not much to change the gear with for the time being
fleet anchor
And if you are using your currency on a Crit set or not
Because honestly if you only care about a Haste set
desert kelp
Nah, just Expedients
fleet anchor
Then spend whatever I guess 😛
desert kelp
seems like a low sim ngl
candid phoenix
Guys question. The new expedient/Exsanguinate build's opener is still GRGMR like the old one?
fleet anchor
I think the only one I'm not a fan of is the ring
Because ideally you want to use Mechagon set
470 vs 475 items is kinda whatever
desert kelp
I mean I can just put the exp from the ring to Bracers
the only slot I have Exp on right now is boots
rest can be placed wherever
ornate gazelle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet anchor
I think the dagger is fine too since you can use that as an OH even if you get a M Carapace dagger
desert kelp
The 475 or the 460 one?
cobalt pelican
hmm
desert kelp
Also I suppose you mean I want both of the damn mechagon rings (since the one I have isn't haste but nature dmg)
fading adder
In the pinned note about the quick guide to exsang build the prop is haste > crit. And then other guides I see haste > mastery. Should I be stacking haste mastery gear or haste crit gear...
desert kelp
Think I'ma place those Expedients, but leave the 2nd ring without for the Mechagon one to get set
Cause might aswell
hmm crimson tempest outsims Poison bomb in ST?
How is exsang played with CT?
analog phoenix
A question to you about IS: Is there a point where pure expedient sims better for you guys? I'm quite certain that this is only due to some insane parses pulling up the average and thus skewing the result towards IS. But still I'm losing 3k dps and I can't figure why. But maybe that's normal. Does anyone have a high parse where IS was parsing worse?
exchange parse for sim, sorry.
molten grove
can anyone make my sim not bad thx
analog phoenix
ornate gazelle
which crafted legs/boots is haste/mastery and haste/crit?
desert kelp
Crafted gear is randomised
ornate gazelle
No i know
ornate gazelle
No no like the name like quickblade or whatever I don't remember
strange python
fireflash is crit and feverflare is mastery + haste
keen dome
IS sims very good but is only that good on a few fights and thus regarded as simbait @analog phoenix
analog phoenix
alright thanks!
fallow estuary
My pre mythic full haste /expidience / Exan build sims WAY lower than my pre mythic full crit build
im so confused :S i thought the full haste build was the way to go
my crit build is 82k~
ornate gazelle
it's probably a combination of not having a third SS, running CT without the haste for it to pull ahead of PB, running vigor over DS, etc.
sim all the combos
ultimately you might not have enough haste in general idk
fallow estuary
i do have 3x SS
warm parcel
what vop minor doing in the sim
ornate gazelle
it's showing stygian guise as your helm
fallow estuary
Check below - the helmet that is simming 79k is 3x SS
only current gear was 2x SS
acoustic trail
If I only play my rogue in keys and run 3x SS / 3x EB should I just go all in on severe/strikethrough?
fallow estuary
I'll try again with correct minor, mecha rings and DS/PB
molten grove
is my azerite really that bad https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/64dfbnSwbNahSJEF1zbeKm
shell atlas
anyone here uses hekili? i am learning the ensang build for the 1 time and i had trhe addon showing me the rotation
but it doesnt use banish or shadowmeld
to reapply empowered garrote
fleet anchor
Not really sure. I can vouch for HeroRotation (alpha version) doing the correct stuff generally but not sure about Hekili. HR gets maintained heavily by Rogue mains so generally works right.
shell atlas
i tried, and im using ensang vuild but it shows tb dd build rotation instead
tropic ocean
stop using rotation addon
rotation is very simple read up guide/watch vids and just practice it
u'll get it in notime
bronze sluice
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
opaque mauve
Hi guys my sim is saying the Raden trinket is a downgrade for me, my guild will start progress on this boss soon, just wondering why ? as most high sims seem to always have it ?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5cMDRjTv8jocU6j2M5bXcy
ebon heath
How many shrouded suffocation traits do you need to make exsanguinate + crimson tempest work?
fallow estuary
Simmed again with correct minors/talents/mecha rings
Now it seems correct
thanks guys <3
lime edge
so m+ simming is 4 targets 40 seconds no lust?
tropic ocean
5-6 more likely
balmy condor
@ebon heath you don't 'need' SS traits per say, exsang will work without for some people, CT is just big haste
having 2 ss traits is good though, a lot of people will have a DD or something on the third slot cause thats how the sim shakes out
fleet anchor
Well it's because of higher ilevel shoulders
balmy condor
yeah
fleet anchor
And it's totally fine although the 3rd SS is nice
balmy condor
lack of azerite from the vendor, no raden helmet
everyone's rng is a little different
fleet anchor
yeah getting Azerite sucks
ornate gazelle
i need a weakaura to remind me when my bleeds are empowered, anyone wanna share theirs?
unreal kayak
Does applying garrote from stealth with 3 sec left overwrite it or does it just not get empowered
vagrant hinge
Hey there, any advice for essencs/enchant/gems ?? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fBXdvquF4NWQRXRRAaXHH5
desert kelp
With Crimson Tempest, do I just keep the dot up and otherwise just use CP for Rupture/Envenom?
ebon heath
Thanks @balmy condor I actually have 3 DD and 1 SS, Farming echoes now for Expedient III , gonna try it out
lime edge
only 0.3% dps tho
runic tinsel
where do i find the guide to how to play with CT and exang? just got the gear for it but never played it before
balmy condor
@ebon heath just sim it
@runic tinsel guide in the pins, CT is just maintained on single target like any other dot would, don't force it into exsang
runic tinsel
then how do i use exang? :p only played assa for this tier
sweet rampart
check the pins
lime edge
brave reef
Any1 got a "bis" list what gear u wanna aim for ? Not the azerite parts but the rest. or is it just like high ilvl haste > Crit/mastery stuff ?
runic tinsel
i was reading through them before asking, not that you told me its literally the first pin...
now* not "not"
lime edge
anyone got a sim script to sim food/potions?
runic tinsel
after vendetta, do i mutilate until full CP or just mut once then rupture before exang?
pseudo hamlet
@lime edge Paste this in advanced sim:
https://pastebin.com/YR4YEKEv
Thanks to @tropic ocean
sweet rampart
@runic tinsel again, read the pins
deft vault
Wait whats CT?
woeful minnow
@vagrant hinge work on bote3
sweet rampart
Crimson tempest
deft vault
OH right
lime edge
thanks
desert kelp
Oh my lord just tried the build out and running out of energy is hard :d
runic tinsel
@sweet rampart I cant find how many CP it wants me to do, just "Vendetta > Mutilate > Rupture > Exsanguinate >". I know it might be a dumb question, but im not used to playing rogue so might be something im not aware of.
desert kelp
195% haste with vita + hero jesus
woeful minnow
if it doesn't specify an alternate route depending on cps then you just follow the opener
but basically it's going to be 5 or 6cp depending on crits
runic tinsel
nvm, after thinking it through for a sec i got it
yeah, already have 3 CP from second garrote. didnt think very far
strange python
i made that pastebin not ausrr @pseudo hamlet 
runic tinsel
and CT just replaces first envenom right? then just maintain it
knotty kindle
hey lads, I'm simming about 1-2k higher with condensed life force than bote, should I trust the sims or the logs?
woeful minnow
@runic tinsel technically the best is if your first mut gets you to 6cp you rupture and your first envenom becomes a ct, if it's 5cp you ct first instead
but doing the right thing vs just the same thing every time is something like a 0.2% difference
covert crag
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8xqZX95s66HuXeiwFnCqbJ
Why does haste sim so low for me? at 4k (60%) atm
should I trust the sim and go other stats or jkust keep stacking
runic tinsel
in that scenario where i CT first, when does exang fit in?
woeful minnow
grg v m ct m m r exsang
vagrant hinge
@vagrant hinge work on bote3
@woeful minnow i am but freaky long
runic tinsel
ty!
i have another really stupid question, after i exang, do i let the dots run out fully?
sturdy python
Yes
runic tinsel
ty
gaunt aspen
would it be worth putting exp3 on 455 mechagon ring set?
uneven aspen
When do you use your galecallers?
keen dome
@gaunt aspen do you want to farm them at 465? Does other combo of rings in your bags sims better ?
versed flint
I'm running a crit/versatility build in M+ right now, but do you guys know if it's possible to run a high haste build with comparable results?
zealous stream
From what i saw in high io assas players, they are playing crit strike build i guess its the best for now
zealous stream
40 seconds
lime edge
its for m+
zealous stream
yea 5 target and 40 seconds
strange python
use blood
coral pawn
it really depends on the pulls...if you are doing big pulls the sever/strike thru is better...if the packs are like 2-4 mobs the high haste can be better
sturdy python
Because clf is extremely powerful in such a short sim
lime edge
i mean
blood cd is over 40 seconds aswell
but i guess im not gonna use clf on a pack
sturdy python
Yes but you get two uses of blood per clf in a dungeon
lime edge
yea i know
sturdy python
Change it to 2 mins and you’ll see a change
coral pawn
^
sturdy python
A lot of specs do that actually. That’s beside the point though
lime edge
since when does a pack live for 2 mins
sturdy python
That’s why clf is simming so high
coral pawn
when do 5 targets take 5 mins to die in m+?
lime edge
they dont
who said anything about 5 mins
what
but its not just clf
its not even telling me to use EB piece
or go crit
coral pawn
40 seconds*
versed flint
Run the "dungeon sim" option to get a better idea of M+ damage
coral pawn
when you pop blood shit dies in like 20seconds
gaunt aspen
@keen dome I simmed all my 470 rings and 465 rings and the 455 mechagon ringset sims higher
stable radish
On the topic of sims, does infinite stars in ST sims assume near perfect stack applications?
cobalt pelican
not r eally sure what perfect stack applications means
coral pawn
big true...d slice is bad
sullen pagoda
why would u sim clf for m+
stable radish
ye, I mean lucky stacks
lime edge
im redoing my m+ set
so im simming starting from my sub 40 corruption single target set
cobalt pelican
the result you get is always the mean of the amount of iterations ran
lime edge
i should put on bote i guess
coral pawn
what key levels do you push?
lime edge
i dont really push, i just do 16s
cobalt pelican
realistically i wouldn't be surprised if both iris and clf outperform bote with a 0eb build at this point in any composite sim that isn't pure aoe, in pure aoe i wouldn't be surprised if iris is consistently better
jovial haven
What makes d slice bad specifically for assassination?
stable radish
I guess I'm really asking how reliable it is. Have 1x R2 IS and 1x R3 IS. I feel I'm over relying on IS. Could replace the R2 with 2x R3 Expedient, but sims 800 dps lower.
lime edge
dont run stars
tropic ocean
and last time checked bad rotation too
spiral hearth
when are we using ct(if talented) in exsanguinate build?
cobalt pelican
how often do you find yourself hitting a single target with nothing else on the screen
tropic ocean
Just keep dot up
spark crater
Infinite stars rank 2 sims higher than my Expd 3. So its want me to run rank 7 exd over my possible rank 10. whats up with that? (Light movement, 8 mins) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b9Pp3tYgyQefKfRA1MFLpF
tropic ocean
Use ct instead of envenom when dot not active
stable radish
damn, was worried that might be the case. Guessing exped + appendage?
cobalt pelican
if i had to guess trying to overcomplicated ilgy sim or something
lime edge
just do patchwerk 5 mins
spark crater
Isnt that a good basis?
lime edge
not rlly
lime edge
do patchwerk 5 mins and dont sim stars
spark crater
Okay ill switch
cobalt pelican
honestly i would just recommend
putting smoething like
bfa.infinite_stars_miss_chance=0.5
and run a top gear
and just leave it there forever
spark crater
Will do!
cobalt pelican
and if it's STILL spitting out is
then you can consider it, or consider the environment you're in and whether more, or less than 50% of the stars are going to hit the thing you want them to and change the value if you want to get
specifica bout it
cobalt pelican
you're never gonna get absolute answers on m+ gear tbh, smoeone can probably give their 'this is what i would play' but it will be based on not much
woeful minnow
gearing assassination for m+ is too annoying for me
leaden burrow
Hey, whats the idea behind using CT over PB on nzoth? Just currious
woeful minnow
like switching shit up depending on the week and the dungeon when you could just switch to outlaw and literally have 1 set for everything
spiral hearth
when do we reapply ct?
leaden burrow
Well fair enough xD
woeful minnow
you keep it up
stable radish
@cobalt pelican that's brilliant, thank you. Ran again, sure enough IS falls a few ranks: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8od4fzh3xzmB7ekK72kMhW
leaden burrow
I dont like outlaw, it just feel like rng spec
lime edge
why cant sin be the better m+ spec, feelsbad
woeful minnow
that's fair, I personally choose that over having to have 7 different sin m+ sets
(number pulled out of my ass)
leaden burrow
Yeah i get that
lime edge
i might just do that
tbh
screw gearing sin for m+
too bad i just scrapped a ton of azerite pieces recently
rip
leaden burrow
Oof ^
shy axle
do you vend - > vanish - gar - x - gar when you get your cooldowns back the first time or the other way around?
lime edge
u vanish first
and act as if u were opening again
but if u dont need to refresh rupture, u either envenom or mutilate depending on your cp
deft vault
Is there any dps gain in doing Garrote Rupture Vendetta Garrote Instead of Garrote Rupture Garrote Vendetta
in your opener
shy axle
ah good to know mate thanks, didn`t see it that way
sturdy python
There was some talk of it in tc research but it’s really iffy if you could get that second garrote inside subt window
deft vault
Nah u can garrote in it
deft vault
yes u can lmao
lime edge
nope
deft vault
bruh
lime edge
are u sure its affected by haste
sturdy python
Positive
deft vault
yes it is
deft vault
go try it on a dummy i garentee you can garrote in your subterfuge again
lethal bobcat
do you go accord of haste on rings too?
lime edge
yes
lethal bobcat
aight
lime edge
i guess u can
sturdy python
Yes vendetta shouldn’t be affected but it is
sturdy python
Search for a poster named Yoppa in #tc-research and he asked awhile back. Koji had a discussion about it
spark crater
@cobalt pelican Darn, still sims higher by 2k dps.
Im not sure how to do the infinite star miss chance (0.5) which is probably the issue
cobalt pelican
you should just be able to put it into the custom apl box at the bottom, like in the picture
you might have to click on this if it's not open already
deft vault
for my second vendetta do i wait for exsang to come off cd ?
woeful minnow
don't forget about item restoration
lime edge
can item restore undo scraps?
woeful minnow
yes
lime edge
oh wtf
woeful minnow
but they take the residuum back so if you don't have enough it'll just sit in your mailbox with a residuum COD I think
lime edge
gotcha
spark crater
Is there an option to uncleanse Cleansed items? 😄
whole cypress
no
fast pine
I m rading tonight and I have this sim for my trinkets and essences:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sQV6M4nt7VTD2Gpsz8W7dB
Any suggestions regarding those?
spark crater
Yay! you the best @cobalt pelican I put my gushing wounds bracers on the sim with exp rank 1 and it simmed higher as well by almost 600k
.600k lol
woeful minnow
I think you have the gear for CT @fast pine, did you try simming it?
fast pine
what is CT ?
woeful minnow
crimson tempest
fast pine
ah i never tried. Is it any good? simming it right now
tight canopy
in single target situation do i keep CT always up like my other bleeds
woeful minnow
take a look at kojiyama's post from the 29th in #tc-updates @fast pine
nimble light
What build / corruptions is recommended for trying to do the 5 mask solo visions?
woeful minnow
yes you just keep it up
fast pine
@woeful minnow OK ill check now
reef mulch
Whats the goto opener for CT single target? I'm seeing openers with CT before exsang and ones with CT after exsang
woeful minnow
basically if your first mut gets you to 6cp you rupture and exsang without CT, if you get to 5cp you CT first, then apply rupture, then exsang
oh and in the first scenario you just replace your first envenom with a CT
fast pine
CT sims higher by a close margin.
reef mulch
thanks @woeful minnow
grim trellis
hey fellas for M+ would you use a 465 wep with better stats over a 470? I'm not sure if there's a reliable way to sim for m+ so thought I'd ask here
runic tinsel
for the third exang cast, do i use Bote or hold it for vendetta?
steep obsidian
i think that is in the pinned guide
vast forum
@grim trellis always higher ilvl wep in MH
woeful minnow
vast forum
OH can be debatable
woeful minnow
you're 1 socket away from that 100k
fast pine
😄 looooooooool
hopefully tonight raden will drop
it's my first time going MM with my new guild
im gonna get that juicy boost
crimson palm
how reliable is harlan compared to vita? they seem to sim within target error
woeful minnow
if they're that close wouldn't you want to keep vita for the party buffing aspect anyway
crimson palm
no fuck those padders lol
woeful minnow
rude
crimson palm
obtuse perch
should you refresh bleeds outside of the pandemic window just before you use exsang?
indigo elk
if rupture is below 25s
obtuse perch
not garrote?
indigo elk
garrote should be above 15s as well
obtuse perch
ty
solar pendant
