#assassination
rancid bobcat
next lily
with toxic blade,is better ss or dd ?
limber lion
I simmed both 6-man and 9-man packs and got same results @prime void
Here's an example of the sim
summer cedar
Is there anyway to sim your top gear if you don't know what your best stats are? From what ive read here, using the stat weights sim is inaccurate
limber lion
Replacing Sev gloves and boots with td/exp
rancid bobcat
use top gear option in raidbots
summer cedar
I use top gear, but i have no idea what my best stats are..
And there not enough space to sim every piece
rancid bobcat
assassination has relatively balanced stats so you can eliminate some of the lower item level stuff
summer cedar
I try that, thanks
prime void
That’s a weird sim
surreal solar
T2 Bomber chest substitute uses clockwork heart for the 2nd right?
cobalt pelican
yes#
sweet rampart
so i know the pins suggest the opener be garrotte > rup > gorotte > ven > mut > rup > exsang > blood of the enemy. Do you guys overcap energy still right as you are waiting for exsang and bote to fire? That global cooldown always caps me on energy
surreal solar
neat.... guess i can go SS exsang afterall
cobalt pelican
i overcap energy on everything always in the opener
it's just how it goes sometimes
sweet rampart
Just no way to avoid it i suppose
cobalt pelican
not when you're fast as fucc
sweet rampart
And damn does my sustain after opener SUCK. Moving into deepstrat has really hurt the sustain game more lol. I dip to like 40k 😦
40k on dummy i should say
round nimbus
expediant rank 3 is our best corruption right?
round nimbus
5head play?
sweet rampart
Yup 5head play
round nimbus
what isn that?
surreal solar
its 1 more than 4head play
round nimbus
ok but that tells me nothing
surreal solar
ultimately, people are split mostly between strikethrough/severe and expedient
round nimbus
ok so is it best to have all expediant if you are going that route and no other corruptions?
prime void
They’re two different scenarios?
Strikethrough severe isn’t the ST play at all or raid build
surreal solar
both are viable, both are options, but numbers argue expedient is better
prime void
Where do you see viable strikethrough ST builds?
round nimbus
so my question stands. the expediant build is only expediant right?
surreal solar
heart of darkness
surreal solar
i dont get why the honed mind
prime void
Because mastery
strange python
"where do you see viable ST/Severe raid Builds"
Hey man, I missed the expedient week. Don't make me feel even more Bad ):
molten copper
is glimpse of clarity dogshit?
prime void
I mean there’s still good reason to buy severe and strikethrough
It just isn’t an st build like it was suggested
molten copper
I just got a +15 corruption and idk if I should cleanse it
surreal solar
where was ST suggested at all miz? not everyone does st things
strange python
Yeye, I get it. In the sense of "buying corruptions for raid", ST and Severe doesnt make sense.
It was just funny in a hurtful way to be called non-viable :P
strange python
Any tips for vex mythic?
For getting it down or pumping deeps?
getting it down
I mean, have your guild follow some Guide and prioritize mechanics above all else? Any DPS Checks won't matter at this Point, you outgear that shit tremendously.
Just don't die to stupid shit
But thats more of a #wow-general question
Nothing really assa specific I can think of on that Fight
bronze wagon
at what haste % did expedient start taking over for you guys
surreal solar
the 1st exp3
dim yacht
anyone figured out what is bis corruption for m+? since sims for that are kinda difficult
tribal obsidian
i think people are just simming small duration multi target
surreal solar
ultimately, sim it, but the "idea" is crit EB
surreal solar
short burst 5body
dim yacht
crit EB should be best, but at the same time i dont want to fuck my ST completely
wary ice
5 target patchwork
surreal solar
2nd set?
wary ice
90s no lust
surreal solar
i have 3 sets
dim yacht
i meant for M+
so cant really change set, well, depends on key
but still
changing gear isnt an option for every key
surreal solar
i have an aoe set, a st set, and a pvp set i mean
surreal solar
eventually you want to kind of match them, unless you're super high crit already
dim yacht
strikethrough vyus?
hollow jolt
yea
wary ice
Yeah
dim yacht
i thought that shit was useless
hollow jolt
its bis in m+
dim yacht
really?
hollow jolt
cause your EB is 100% crit
dim yacht
oh true
wary ice
Echoing blades and bote
wary ice
U should be able to hit a natural 40% without any corruption
I thino my set was 42 before I got a severe
dim yacht
well, i dont have all my sockets on gear yet
hollow jolt
and mastery
I dont have sockets either
you just need crit pieces
Crit vers would be best
dim yacht
i dont have crit on every piece, but i do on most
hollow jolt
cause your FoK / EB scales with vers
wary ice
And lethal strikes
hollow jolt
yea
hollow jolt
master is not as good tho
dim yacht
does mastery affect gushing wound?
white wyvern
no
wary ice
I've been lazy and basically calling any 475 crit mast or crit verse bis
hollow jolt
mastery buffs your bleeds
dark token
still envenom/rupture at 4cp with deeper strategem right? (except 6cp before exang)
dim yacht
yeah, i just thought maybe since gushing wound is a bleed
dark token
havent used it in a hot minute
hollow jolt
gushing is not that good anymore cause nerf
best is 3-4 ST + 1-2 severe cause its no rng and pure dmg
TD is not bad but it might just only proc on boss fights and not on trash packs
dim yacht
how will the ST be on that build though
hollow jolt
wdym
dim yacht
on tyran?
hollow jolt
yea even tyrannical
dim yacht
hmmm
rancid bobcat
Owned tbh
scenic nacelle
8 kills no dagger and forgot bonus rolls. Do I log off for the rest of the week?
rancid bobcat
Echo grind
lethal ember
new here, but is infinite starts 3 better than twisted app single target, with expedience of course? wondering if a 8k echo grinds worth it this week
lethal ember
so IS is a nono?
wary ice
I wouldn't waste echos on it personally
karmic tusk
Also looking for good ST corruptions
lethal ember
my dps in raids is dog and i want to do better xD
wary ice
Expeident is a consistent option
karmic tusk
Expediant still the best for toxic blade?
lethal ember
logs is showing alot of exp and twisted being used
lethal ember
so just save and stack exp?
crisp steeple
i tried readin that guide, it confused me more
wary ice
I'd imagine the most consistent option in st is probably some balance of expedient and tendies
crisp steeple
it seem like Rogue is too much hard to master
lethal ember
hmm, alright sounds like its back to saving again 😂
oh for raiding, unless its a of aoe, assassin is better right?
sounds dumb but logs is messing with me bad
prime void
@surreal solar I figured it was common sense to assume st was being talked about when discussing esxg
My bad I guess
lean harbor
howdy fellas
on nzoth is it better to just hold exsanguinate for all vendettas on boss yes?
grave herald
for exan build you dont refresh bleeds at like 8 sec and all that right?
you let them go to 0?
dim sail
if ur playing exanguinate/deeper strat spec do u ever envenom with 4 combo points or just 5/6
wary ice
If they're exsang'd let them tick out
Env no
U can rupture at 4 I'd u need to refresh, but generally u finish at 5/6
dim sail
ty
grave herald
tyvm
rigid eagle
hey guys
so how does the racing pulse vs. honed mind thing go
is that something i'd have to sim or is one generally better?
grave herald
always sim
cobalt pelican
the recent discussions between the two are all only relating to endgame cloak res
not current gear
rigid eagle
and is there a reason for taking honed mind over masterful
plain thistle
it does more damage 🙂
last crown
how are yall opening on hivemind? double garrote on one and single on the other? or garrote>rupture>garrote>rupture on both?
dense blaze
This expedient/exsang build is very fun
dense axle
What the hell is tendies corruption?
prime void
Panda pog
last crown
god hivemind logging blows
cobalt pelican
go vote on the poll to remove it from allstars then : )
serene osprey
bribe the mage to afk so you can padfest
prime void
bribe the 4 mages
last crown
our mages are pulling 85k l0l
cobalt pelican
prime void
Great players
last crown
i need to get a set of echoing blades for this fucking fight
prime void
No duh it’s a shit fight to parse If you’re using the wrong gear
last crown
i dont have any EB! 😦
prime void
What do you use in keys 😔
last crown
friends
verbal sparrow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hPwhEYCqM9UCpUPQ3zJ3X2
I wonder what should I do to sim more
also 64 corr. is quite painful to keep but purifying anything just drops my dps quite lot
safe dagger
if i only have 2x ss traits is exang playable
fast fog
If I take Crimson Tempest once it starts breaking further ahead than PB do I make sure to keep it up during single target fights?
charred harbor
reading the guide that method wrote for exang build and i see this shit "Garrote > Rupture > Garrote > Condensed Life-Force (if chosen) > Vendetta > Mutilate > Rupture > Exsanguinate > Blood of the Enemy (if chosen) > Mutilate > Mutilate > Envenom"
wouldnt that 3rd garrote overwrite the empowered garrote?
cuz thats what im thinking
fast fog
It won't if you take SS and Subterfuge.
rancid bobcat
what third garrote
rancid spade
what third garrote
fast fog
I think they mean the 3rd GCD.
charred harbor
^
rancid bobcat
the guide should tell you to talent subterfuge
rancid bobcat
get more haste
fast fog
This is where I'm at.
loud silo
whats the best race for rouge? on horde
fast fog
Ok, I see you're at 52% passive haste. I'll work on that.
rancid bobcat
your cloak also isnt caught up yet
arctic walrus
clearly something is being changed about your essences
astral tiger
Currently I sim at 89k-ish, how much higher do others sim? For pure ST that is. I'm basically not sure if i should attempt to rearrange my azerite. Currently running VOP with 3 NP, 2 DD, and one Heart of Darkness
vast forum
100k+
astral tiger
So is my gear just trash? lmao
astral tiger
Lmao so yes, i'm trash. we're starting ilgy prog this week
astral tiger
Not 100% but I have 6 sockets 😛
I'm just trying to figure out if I should go for the SS build everyone seems to be going for, or what lmao
vast forum
SS is best
if possible, get gorak tul's, raden helm and once you kill cara mythic, hope for the chest
stack expedients
win
astral tiger
Do I wanna go for 3 SS or what tends to be the go-to?
prime void
He just told you what to go for lol
astral tiger
He said SS is best, but I didn't know if stacking SS was the best or
Or if it was just best to have one and fill the other slots with something else or what
Because everyone seems to be doing something different
prime void
Because no ones gear is exactly the same
safe dagger
almost every exang log i see has triple ss triple hod, i am stuck on 2x ss and unsure if i should just play tb for the meantime
astral tiger
True, and I get that, I just didn't know if there was a specific thing that I should gear towards, or if I should just use what i've got and sim every new piece i get to see if it's better
prime void
That matter would be the most efficient
toxic remnant
what do you mean play tb for the meantime? trying to sim my own guy and figure out what I can do better, but can't seem tro get past 67k dps
prime void
Latter *
vapid scarab
@safe dagger even with optimal exsang build it's only like 1-2% better than TB
so if you don't have the optimal exsang build, probably use TB
safe dagger
ye good call m8, cheers
limber tinsel
what's TB
charred harbor
toxic blade
vapid scarab
if you have the gear for it yeah
limber tinsel
it's cara cplate, raden helmet, ilgy shoulders right
with expedient
or is gorak's better than ilgy shoulders
astral tiger
rank 160 dmg to boss on ra-den on all realms woot kek 😛
cobalt pelican
the essence deselection thing has been happening to me for like a week on any sim that has a locked essence
kinda fucking obnoxious
cause i always forget
and then run a like 20 min long sim
toxic remnant
this whole sim your gear thing is so hard to figure out, i just keep resimming trying to crack the code, but i think i just gotta get better
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jwNdbNpnJmhxjpsBDkV1pP this is about the best i can do. i know my essences hold me back, but i feel like it's so mediocre it's not worth doing. unless you can prove me wrong :p
i'm mostly enchanted/gemmed for pvp, but that too, if I need to switch when i want to pve, i could try.
I feel like I have decent gear overall, but am having a hard time seeing places to improve. Maybe coral would boost me up big time? maybe a fix of corruptions?
cobalt pelican
lucid 3 and breath 3 are like 5k dps alone i think
loud brook
mythic vex chest pog
torpid zealot
TB Build also Expendient Stack ?
idle nova
loud brook
grats
jolly helm
Haste increases haste regeneration, correct? Is there a ratio to this?
energy regeneration*
astral tiger
Am I seeing a lot of people run plumage because it's easier than coral or because it generally sims higher? Because I can't wait to get rid of this coral lmao
limber star
does anyone have logs or advice for staying up top whole fight on nzoth? I feel like im just ST basher but maybe i should do more..
rancid bobcat
what else do you think you could do
strange python
Which Corruption you buy? Im thinking of stacking Expedient on whole gear and dont use TD3. Good idea? Mostly im running m+
Or stacking crit through severed?
tranquil imp
I think the correct answer for mythic + is that you want both severe III and strikethrough III and you want to have the same number of both
ancient gyro
Does Assassination perform well in M+, I just picked up my rogue again
ancient gyro
Meh maybe I will have to farm different azerite sets then
rigid eagle
yes u 100% will
sin needs a bunch of different stuff for different contents
so outlaw has the advantage in that respect
ancient gyro
Maybe I will just keep sin for raiding/pvp
mossy valve
Do we want severes for m+?
torpid zealot
Could you help me ? Is TB build without ss traits also viable with expendient stacking?
strange python
its less dps but dd build goes for expedient too yes
strange python
last time i checked, yes
vestal wren
i think the majority is running exsang atm
rancid bobcat
only reason not to go exsang if your haste is high is if you dont have the azerite probably
rocky ruin
With so much severe 3 do we got a breakpoint for crit?
strange python
or if you have to play vop minor to meet timers
sullen cloak
I’m confused where my stats should look like before I stack expedient for raid, everything I see sad to stack it but my sim has crit and mastery over haste, unsure the correct thing to do
Stats””
feral rune
what corruptions would u guys recommend going for on sin?
astral tiger
Pretty sure it's just expedient and tendies, no?
Just kinda keep stackin expedient till what, like 36%?
So if SS & Exsang sim a lot lower, do i just not have enough haste? I'm at 40% haste but idk what the factors on when to and when not to are.
rancid bobcat
You need more haste
astral tiger
Any idea around what mark I'm looking for?
astral tiger
oh damn aight I getcha
rigid eagle
@rancid bobcat do you run exsang in m+?
meager geyser
Currently using 70 corruption on tendies. Should I cleanse and put racing pulse on instead?
rigid eagle
@meager geyser prolly just go for exped over racing pulse
meager geyser
Dont have exped. Have 2 racing pieces sat in my bag
astral tiger
Infinite stars isn't great in practice on sin, is it? Unless you get really lucky that is
And I mean on fights where it's usually good Ie shad, xanesh, maut, skitra maybe idk,
lost horizon
It has high variance
And any time there's extra targets you can get giga-screwed over
Consistency is definitely not something you get from IS
Shit can proc on your things from beyond
astral tiger
So due to its inconsistency, are there any times where you would recommend it over something else? I mean I feel like the only sin fights are reclears from now on, cause all I have is Drest, ilgy, cara, and n'zoth left. But I want dopamine points
lost horizon
🤷 maybe if you're feeling lucky?
I use one currently but I'd like to phase it out eventually
If you're gonna choose to use it, definitely only for ST
And only if its a high ilvl piece
astral tiger
Cause stars sims so much higher, but I feel like that's just because it's in a perfect world
astral tiger
Yeah I only do 5 min sims usually
I have 2 r3s, one on a 465 dagger and one on a 470 waist, so i mean they're no 485 nzoth trinkets, but they're decent ilvl
I think that I'm really just trying to figure out how to get past an 89k sim w/o IS lmao
lost horizon
Go big on expedient
astral tiger
I'm simming myself with like 5 expedient R3s with an exsang subterfuge build with 3 SS and it's still saying I sim lower, but I need a heroic cara chest to sim it with and see if that changes anything
night cipher
so do we just replace all gushings with exped now ?
astral tiger
pretty much
I can get it up to 91, but that's as far as i can get it feels like lmao, if anyone has any ideas please @me, I would much appreciate it, https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uZvWaryx6xST83hXyFzxLR ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
runic tinsel
So the build now is Subt+exang+3xSS, what other trait do i want though? Vendetta/heart of darkness?
limber lion
Generally Heart of Darkness and a Bilghtborne Infusion from Gorak Tul's, but you should sim yourself
tropic ocean
should just reroll hunter zzz
2 different azerites, 2 different gear sets, 2 different corruption sets
and they just blast with 1 for all
limber lion
Or Fire Mage :'')
runic tinsel
seems like my gear is just shit. no azerite with SS+HoD. sims also tells me to go subt+deeper strategem+exang
mortal umbra
Guessing Glimpse of clarity is horrible for us? xD
runic tinsel
gearing is so so complicated right now 😦 Have to sim yourself 100 times each week and its hard to aim for something specific
runic oak
Hey. I am new here and i didnt find any recent info pinned. What would be the perfect single / multi target corruption builds for assasination rogue? I dont wanna spend echos wrong. I wanted to buy infinite stars III from shop this week but i wanna be sure about it first.
scarlet sequoia
u can check guides bro thats what theyre there for
runic oak
Guides in yt tells me to buy infinite stars
scarlet sequoia
for m+ u would want severe / strikethrough
runic oak
..
onyx crane
so simmed, and raidbots tells me to get rid of wounds and put severe 3
scarlet sequoia
ye gw is pretty bad compared to stat amps
onyx crane
deals 6k less dmg too on 470 ilv
scarlet sequoia
yeah nerf was rough
hushed musk
First time using echoes, should I get only severe 3?
pseudo hamlet
@runic oak which youtube video says that assa rogues have to buy infinite stars?
@hushed musk for M+? yeah
hushed musk
@pseudo hamlet thx!
strange python
Some low effort Guide that only looks at Sim values on herodamage or smth, and doesn't bother to apply any common sense
rocky ruin
For M+ do we have a cap for crit or just pump just more crit into it?
im sitting 50,49% for m+
runic oak
I checked the guides, IT only says what corruptions are good for and all are good one way or another
But what would be a whole build
Corruption combination
For single and multi target
strange python
For raid mostly expedient stacking it you got Endgame gear for the exsang build
For m+ severe and strikethrough
strange python
7 Rank 3s yeah
The top most Pin has the Guide for the exsang build
Which is the most optimal If you can get the Gear
It Covers corruptions
So go read that
pine badger
According to Sims stacking expedient over mindflay is a dps loss for me, do I not have enough base haste? Or am I missing something https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wAKNTdYnmGgC8QVNwa5jXM
strange python
On mobile and can't really decipher raidbots Layout there, but: generally you need a loooot of good Gear for the expedient exsang build to blast
And your Gear is kinda doo-doo If you sim 82k with your best
And yeah, Base haste is a Factor obviously. But that doesn't mean that every piece needs to have haste, e.g. for quite some people with minmaxed expedient Setups, even wrathion legs (Vers Mast) pull ahead of e.g. Crit haste legs
pine badger
fair enough, im guessing having 3 465 azerites doesn't help much
strange python
Simply because they get so much haste already from all other sources
storm perch
you should try to sim with chest from carapace/head from raden/gorak tuls shoulders from casino
getting from there 3 ss traits/2 hod/bbi
zinc furnace
Gentlemen, question about Raidbots. is it possible to sim in raidbots, with the term that i have exactly 3 severes, 1 strikethrough and 2 expedients in bag? It seems the menu there just puts the total number without specifying which and how many.
pseudo hamlet
TD isn't good for patcherk fights.
onyx crane
makes sense
pseudo hamlet
@onyx crane and with <40 corruption: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ok2JgoKM79hLH93HTKScQu
onyx crane
it's 40 corruption, one full vision and it's fixed
wind nymph
Hello, i'm simming my rogue for both single target and aoe spec, both sims with max 39 corruption:
m+ https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t5zwUW48ELyiN74r6MwWqw
raid
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cnj6NBmZRCnrar9vJRwwqZ
what do you guys suggest to improve?
onyx crane
the TD is better suited for M+ or should I go full outlaw there
grim ravine
how much base haste should you have until Exsanguinate makes sense
pseudo hamlet
Untill it sims higher I think! 😄 Everyone have different gear, there's no ,,haste-point" for exang. For me(!) it's like ~39-41%.
thin gate
guys, can someone help me for detailed simcrafting?
onyx crane
so no answer on if I should go outlaw for M+? (not having great EB gear either)
strange python
go outlaw
steep obsidian
You go outlaw for the control not necessarily the dam
tawdry bramble
strange python
farm mechagon rings 
scarlet sequoia
infinite stars 
patent topaz
I boosted some alts in my FH 15 yesterday. Got 16 workshop from that. Thats when i knew it was destiny. Finally got the ring on that run.
18 junkyard from that and I was 
no drop there though
onyx osprey
So, quite new to assa, is there a specific reason you would run subterfuge over master assassin? If you are playing DD that is
last gyro
yeah if you play with ss traits
onyx osprey
Ah just when SS or?
last gyro
It's immense how much dmg garrot can do
onyx osprey
Cus the couple of logs I have checked some run sub without having SS
patent topaz
If you have good gear subt starts simming better
patent topaz
regardless of ss
patent topaz
MA loses value with good gear, more crit.
Getting coral pushed subt for me personally
onyx osprey
My stats are kind of megascuffed though, its an alt that i'm bringing in for the last immunity on Nzoth to reclear lul
Sadly no coral either
patent topaz
We went on 1st reclear on monday with like 5 changes so it was scuff. We didnt kill nzoth
onyx osprey
Running with expedient/mf & about 35% crit and 29% haste
Yep.. had that last week
feelsbadman
patent topaz
changed BL timing and psychus groups and tanks
onyx osprey
patent topaz
assa felt super shit for p1
onyx osprey
I'm usually the synapse killer so i'm playing breath as well
patent topaz
I was outside full time so rip
sullen pagoda
who made that decision jesus
sullen pagoda
make assa rogue synapse killers like what
onyx osprey
we got another assa so boss dmg would be fine
patent topaz
I was in psychus 1 for a couple of attempts but got swapped for a DH for synapse dam
sullen pagoda
i mean sure its gonna be fine now after boss is nerfed and corruption vendor but jesus thats so bad decisions from RL
1 hunter is enough
we have 1 hunter group 1 and he basically soloes synapses
like its not even close the 2nd guy
patent topaz
out psychus 1 dam was mage, hunter, ww, fdk, dh
sullen pagoda
our hunt barely does dmg to psychus
just destroys tentacles
why would u have assa rogue do it 
probably one of the worst classes for it
patent topaz
I felt useless in p1 when I wasnt in a psychus group
onyx osprey
im usually feral , then we have hunter, assa, ret, fury and frost dk lul
for psychus 1
sullen pagoda
yeah hunter ret fury and frost dk are all so much better than rogue for it
they are just being lazy
why prog when u can slam psychus 
sullen pagoda
like with that comp you are literally a mage replacement
onyx osprey
wouldnt you want to save for nzoth burn?
sullen pagoda
you are there to destroy psychus
onyx osprey
im not playing vision major
sullen pagoda
dont if u dont have a mage down imo
use cds on psychus
bote is better controlled dmg when u need it than slot machine vop
humble tiger
i really hope poison bomb get removed in SL
this random you do aoe or not is soooo annoying
orchid solstice
does VoP minor ever go above 25% cd reduction
scarlet sequoia
no
patent topaz
PB is literally a non factor compared to its state in legion
glacial steppe
hollow escarp
wasn't PB better in legion for the 100% + mastery we had?
glacial steppe
pb was big because it did big dam
hollow escarp
yeah, it was nerfed as well
humble tiger
yeah but it's still the default option everywhere i look
but it always proccs after 3 dhs eyebeamed averything away and theres like half a mob standing
hollow escarp
probably because CT requires a global
humble tiger
yeah and the 20 stacking whatever talent is only worth it once every 40sec
crimson palm
CT crew how's your uptime looking like
I feel like it's impossible to get the one from sims
tropic ocean
no
glacial steppe
5-6 cp ct or is 4+ worth already?
glacial steppe
@crimson palm all the time, so its our new finisher?
crimson palm
no
if CT is in pandemic you just replace envenom with a CT cast
so refreshing it takes prio
glacial steppe
makes sense when playing a dot
pseudo narwhal
Quick question about sin rogue my sims are telling me that i should go for pure crit instead of haste.
hollow escarp
on single target?
pseudo narwhal
yes
autumn shoal
Yeah it can happen, like me i have to put severe and crit gem instead i have full expedient
hollow escarp
well, crit sims better for me as well
pseudo narwhal
Should i keep my Twisted appendages or go for expedient
autumn shoal
i want to say expedient but if u want to play 100% rng and pray for rank on WL you can keep TA i think
pseudo narwhal
So i should definetly go for as much expedient as possible for raid progress?
autumn shoal
Yeah but keep in mind to sim, like you see now i have to go with some crit so it depend of your stuff
but imo expedient > TA
autumn shoal
you can boost your sim with IS but it's not really representative of raid fight on nyalotha
pseudo narwhal
4* ilvl
yeah i already noticed
like shadhar and xanesh are the only fights for IS
autumn shoal
yes
keep in mind that heart of darkness is strong if you have some raid raid azerite 480
pseudo narwhal
havent progressed that far yet tbf
autumn shoal
maybe try to sim with different setup of talents like 2/2/2/X/X/3/1 and put some expedient with PRESERVED CONTAMINANTS
on raidbot
pseudo narwhal
I feel like DS makes the spec just not enjoyable to play
scarlet sequoia
it does look like you do not have the gear to play ds
pseudo narwhal
that aswell
small crypt
how does one use galecaller with exsang? do you delay your 2. exsang for 15 secs for galecallers and then delay ~20-25 secs again for 3. exsang with vanish?
strange python
ds feels like vigor with enough haste
patent topaz
sim uses both exsang and gcb on cd
small crypt
so your 2nd exsang doesnt even profit from gcb?
patent topaz
no
small crypt
hmm
faint harness
otherwise ur wasting a GCB/exsang
humble tiger
Does wound poison work on drestagath?
humble tiger
well if it works then your tank would still do some dps on the boss right?
faint harness
dont sweat it
if you are not killing the boss, its not cus of lack of healing reductions
seems incredibly pointless
also other specs/classes supply healing reduction without sacrificing dps
humble tiger
also true
indigo cloak
any tips for mythic raden guys? with ss exsa build
shy axle
2,5 weeks until reset and exped3 (if the cycle stays the same) or did i oversee sth?
keen dome
I'll have just enough residuum to buy a gorak tul by then
flat flax
@shy axle Do you happen to know costing for exped3 (assuming it comes up) - figure I should start saving to get 5 of them
high siren
5k
shy axle
@flat flax all r3 % ones cost 5k
flat flax
Guess time to go run visions... guess a reason I have saved 300k coalescing up... (unless someone know a less painful way)
faint harness
visions is the best way to farm them
flat flax
It is not hard, it is just painful...
flat flax
True
faint harness
ok, being only 35k behind the best geared specs compared to 40k*
lone junco
Imaginary temporary digital recreactional power curves ftw
faint harness
you're reading too much into it
lone junco
As someone who as (also) played wow for almost 15 years, the word success just made me smile.
night cipher
Can’t wait to spend all echoes on current meta to have it nerfed in some weeks
wind nymph
in terms of single target damage, how much haste is better than crit?
i'm up with this setup for raid
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cnj6NBmZRCnrar9vJRwwqZ
and i'm using pretty much the same setup in m+ switching only the azerite items with 3 x EB, i think i'm good for both raid and m+, do you think switching from Severe to Expedient is a must in raid?
restive star
It's a must if you want to top the charts, you can easily still take down any raid boss simply by following mechanics with that level of gear
lime edge
what do you guys do for your dailies? right now i only do my emissary and my daily lesser vision
lone junco
in all of bfa and legion combined i have probably only completed 30 emmisary quests.
dailys are a dumb progression curve. I hated the first ones back in BC when we had flying quiddich games or whatever
but I know people that complete all 3 on every time for the past 5 years on 5+ guys. so have fun
patent topaz
I was enjoying not doing emissaries and then echoes happened
dark crag
Emissaries every 3 days, daily vision and nzoth toy trolling
topaz vine
Stupid question.. why is everyone playing 3 SS for st? I've tried simming it and I lose soooooo much dps 😅
scarlet sequoia
becomes better with better gear basically
if you arent at least mythic lvl gear then its probably not gonna be better
scarlet sequoia
how about your stats? typically you want a decent amount of haste for it to be better
sturdy mesa
Depends on your haste i guess
scarlet sequoia
can you link a topgear sim instead
topaz vine
and this is what im aiming to buy. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cd6ta2wqtYcq6kDULtsHqd
but even when i sim it with all that its not better with ss
scarlet sequoia
let me have a look
topaz vine
scarlet sequoia
doing a sim for you right now, couple of min
gloomy slate
Did you try exsang with 3 SS
gloomy slate
FeelsBadMan
scarlet sequoia
aight so
ss is about 12 dps worse
thats without optimizing everything
and thats without buying the corruptions you planned to buy
if u want me to completely optimize it for you then equip the gear in the sim (the ss set slightly below the top set) and ill make it better for you
@topaz vine
dark token
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iUSHseHxAePos8qM4vbduj anyone found better rogue bis? best i could find for sin
dark token
humblebrag :P
scarlet sequoia
not gonna miss an opportunity
scenic nacelle
97 corruption monkaS
dark token
although i bet 475 galecallers would be better
tbh you could run that in raid rn on some bosses if you wanted for parses
people have run more
but i find corruption actually isnt that high dps gain as people think and running 59 in every scenario is best
sharp snow
ey people
i dont have all traits and i need to optimize them for the mythic raid tonight
coudl someone spare few minutes to help me which one to choose
scarlet sequoia
@dark token https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4sQ72khht6YyCzkv62euSq with my current gear
and max corruption ofc
lean marten
So do we just put Expedient on Haste-Crit pieces
trying to figure out which pieces to use
dark token
a lot of the raid fights are around 3 min now except for the weird hectic cleavy ones like drest/cara/nzoth
lean marten
hes wrath parsing bro
scarlet sequoia
how u gonna kill wrathion in 3 min
scarlet sequoia
how did u figure that
gloomy slate
CT? @raz
lone junco
@dark token no bote or ct?
dark token
i find 3/5 min are also helpful to not make VoP minor look too good
mellow pier
I honestly sim 3,4 and 5 and theres almost no difference in what gear I use
lean marten
first 9 bosses are like 3-5mins. last 3 are like 5-10m
dark token
i forgot CT @lone junco but bote loses to CLF in max gear in every patchwerk scenario
lone junco
seems silly on nzoth as well
dark token
wrathion is a weird example because vop/blood lines up better with his phases
mellow pier
Tbh tho I could pad boss dmg with it on nzoth
dark token
havent done nzoth so not sure there
cobalt pelican
clf doesn't have bad lineups for wrathion really though
dark token
i think you can do CLF with vop minor and still do very good at wrath yeah
cobalt pelican
you'd just have to play clf vop
mellow pier
Bote gets better use imo
dark token
its just if your kill time is 5:30 rather than 4 min blood is probably better
mellow pier
U prob dont lose a clf tho
cobalt pelican
i mean
you just have
opener vend
noodle ass 1:30 vend
and then real vend after intermission with clf again
lean marten
play EB + BotE and pillar pad ez parse
dark token
y not
mellow pier
Sim says to lol
tropic ocean
Sim is not as badly programmed as game
mellow pier
@scarlet sequoia do u just do it before vendetta?
lean marten
in my experience CLF prepull bugs out and doesn't attack somtimes
mellow pier
Ive never seen that
scarlet sequoia
have u ever checked
lean marten
happened to me on xanesh prog like 3x and i swapped to BotE
but tath was few months ago
mellow pier
I have not but I will
solemn harness
Hello, quick question, when Vision of Perfection procs and casts vendetta, is it just he energy gain or does it also cast on your target and apply nature damage increase and proc azerite trait Nothing Personal?
lean marten
it applies a shortened NP
wind nymph
@scarlet sequoia are u playing with Expedient even in m+?
damn that's an impressive sim
scarlet sequoia
i dont play m+
wind nymph
ah, easy
verbal sparrow
guys, should I buy random piece of head (I have 465 Gibbering Maw) or try to drop Gorak's mantle ? (I have gold tasseled 480)
sturdy mesa
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/itVEw1udpGYUeB1kAkx3q @scarlet sequoia anything i can improve besides getting better azerite pieces? 
dark token
interesting that your gear sims better raz even with not having 475 mechagon rings and using 475 offhand instead of the cara dagger
i guess maybe 100% haste stacking isnt the way?
dark token
youd think it would be based on wearing 7x expedients
scarlet sequoia
@sturdy mesa ill look sec
dark token
makes sense that stat is more valuable
sturdy mesa
@scarlet sequoia thanks man big appreciate!
tropic ocean
guys, should I buy random piece of head (I have 465 Gibbering Maw) or try to drop Gorak's mantle ? (I have gold tasseled 480)
@verbal sparrow maybe, maybe not with these information you wont get a proper answer
eg what do you want to do
verbal sparrow
I'mma post simcraft, you'll get more info gimme sec
scarlet sequoia
@sturdy mesa link a top gear sim instead
tropic ocean
Dont need sim
It comes down how far you progressed into raid
if you cant get 480 helm by raiding it will probably be a bigger upgrade than gorak tuls for you
verbal sparrow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ivCnmr1yrkNHCUeSgau4jU
5/12 we're doing Xanesh
okey, thx mate
tropic ocean
in the end you want gorak tuls yeah
scarlet sequoia
if ure strictly trying to play 3x ss exsang then there is no azerite head upgrade over 465 ra-den head
verbal sparrow
So I should rather wait with 465 raden head?
scarlet sequoia
if u only want to play 3 ss exsang then yes, dont buy a head
verbal sparrow
okey, thanks mate
keen dome
you can run a droptimizer for 475 head pieces, Slithering Loa is good but don't have SS
dark token
just gamble shoulders 5x like me until you get gorak's
tribal obsidian
Im on 7th gamble
dark token
RIP
lone junco
@scarlet sequoia how do you play at 92c? or is that just a future sim based on eventual cloak resist levels
scarlet sequoia
thats a future sim 😛 i dont go over 60
verbal sparrow
yep, dropped a dogshit... 😄
tribal obsidian
Are you just manually editing a simc
lone junco
nah. just raise your max allowable corruption
tribal obsidian
Yes i know
lone junco
its also 3 mintues
tribal obsidian
Wondering if he has all those gear
And is only waiting on cloak resist or he simmed gear he doesn't have
dark token
he probably used his in bag items but hasnt applied some of the corruptions yet
scarlet sequoia
i have all the gear
tribal obsidian
Oh nice
tropic ocean
its also 3 mintues
@lone junco which makes a lot more sense than 5 min
Because you kill most bosses in 3 now
dark token
2-4 but yes
tropic ocean
even in mediocre guilds
lone junco
not us.
tribal obsidian
I don't think i will progress as far an wondering what my bis would be so might have to manually make a simc string
tropic ocean
well then adapt your sim to your individual fight timer
lone junco
no need. stack IT and haste and use wings on cd.
scarlet sequoia
or just sim standard 5 min like everyone
dark token
idk how raz has a 2k higher sim lmao i even simmed mastery heavy pants/dagger https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jCPmNu2XUxjtFVHEUvr86a
its mysterious
scarlet sequoia
well theres neck lvl
dark token
o yeah
didnt think neck actually mattered that much. interesting
i guess you have 6 levels on me
sturdy mesa
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dbjw2oZcNU8okeZphbWUTR i should prolly buy premium so i can actually have a huge ammount of selection 
verbal sparrow
123k 
dark token
thats a bis sim with my gear (except i bumped mecha rings from 465 ->475) I only sim 108 because i havent bought any expedients yet
and have had zero drop ever so
verbal sparrow
I'm god damn unlucky on those rings
vast forum
we simming 3 min nowadays?
dark token
it doesnt really matter i just wanted to compare CLF/vs blood on more realistic boss timings
i wanted to see even if you dont get a second CLF off if it beats blood
tepid tundra
Why did your sim pick crimson tempest over poison bomb for ST?
tepid tundra
Hahah makes sense thinking about it
dark token
havent tried it out yet, will probably feel weird
tepid tundra
What’s haste % in that build
dark token
not sure i havent bought 7x expedients yet. saving my echoes
vast forum
i've played with it, doesn't feel weird at all
just another dot to keep up
and you don't play around it with exsang
dark token
is it even exanged?
i know it doesnt give energy back but i guess the haste still makes it tick fast enough to make it work
scarlet sequoia
it is yes
verbal sparrow
I wonder when 3 expedients will be available to buy
dark token
2 weeks
cobalt pelican
maybe 8 weeks who knows : }
dark token
if blizz actually made it a fully rng rotation
i have no words for their stupidity and am refunding shadowlands because i know they dont give a fuck about players
i have some hope rn but that would just be a stupid pointless game design decision
and i would lose faith in their ability to actually make a game
strange python
No
tribal obsidian
Not a single corruption right?
strange python
Nope, nothing
tribal obsidian
If it was completely rng you would think something would have
It looks like a pre made rotation to me
strange python
I mean, rng is rng. Its the Nature of the Game that everything goes If its RNG
But yes, it probably is a Rotation
At least looks like it
strange python
Thats what ppl think I guess
vast forum
but
other datamining suggests that there are 8 different combinations of corruptions and the first rotation of 8 isn't the same as the 2nd
which would be horrible
ebon forge
strange python
Baked Port tato or mech dowels big mech
Probably
Sim it with this
To be sure
humble saddle
sorry if this is a common question, but how do you guys sim for m+? dungeonslice?
wind nymph
@humble saddle yep, is the closest to the real m+ situation
humble saddle
thought so, thank you
white wyvern
@humble saddle No. Dungeon Slice is very bad for Sin.
wind nymph
@white wyvern can u elaborate please? i'm trusting D.Slice quite a lot and found no trouble
white wyvern
You gotta do multiple sims simulating a dungeon environment and digest them together.
Dungeon Slice doesn't give restealths.
If you are playing SS it will severely gimp the results.
wind nymph
i understand now, i'm going with EB so i've found no issue
lean marten
it does restealth, problem is with the use of bleeding multiple targets while determining if mob will stay alive
its an api issue
white wyvern
Did you go with EB because Dungeon Slice told you SS was bad? 
lean marten
but yea, Dslice isn't trustworthy for sin
sturdy mesa
wind nymph
@white wyvern nop nop, is just that i like EB more, is easier to take out damage with my static party that often doesn't gimme time to restealth if not with vanish/shadowmeld, i've 2 SS aswell on my gear with 3 EB and Dagger in the Back
due to the fact that often i can't restealth i prefer EB 😄
white wyvern
@lean marten Pretty sure the default dungeon slice does not give restealths. There is a pin in #wow-general with a script for better Dungeon Slice sims which includes a fix to give restealths.
patent topaz
bruh, how is bomber jacket 1400 over reverent adoration, clockwork heart doesnt even line up with cds after opener
tropic ocean
@white wyvern nop nop, is just that i like EB more, is easier to take out damage with my static party that often doesn't gimme time to restealth if not with vanish/shadowmeld, i've 2 SS aswell on my gear with 3 EB and Dagger in the Back
@wind nymph its not, and you dont rely on your party to restealth
obsidian turret
im sure its incredibly minor, but how do you guys deal with situations like this where you have 3combo points, unempowered garrote can be refreshed but still has 4-5s? do you garrote and 4combo point envenom or mutilate for 5cp, envenom, then garrote?
tropic ocean
4-5s is in perfect pandemic window for garrote to be refreshed
and yes you finish with 4-5
obsidian turret
i mean assuming nothing will drop, and you have the choice of getting a 4 point finisher or 5 point finisher, do you always try to go for the 5
hopefully im making sense
obsidian turret
cool ty
runic tinsel
When playing with subterfuge without SS traits, do i just open with garrote->rupture->garrote and use vanish when i need to refresh garrote?
other than that is it like the usual MA+TB spec?
cobalt pelican
you don't get 3 cp from a non-shrouded garrote, and double application really isn't important
just garrote mut rupture and vanish when garrote is <5.4
runic tinsel
ah i see, ty
wind nymph
@tropic ocean what do you mean for "u don't rely on party to restealth", if tank keep pulling without getting out of combat is hard to restealth if not by racial/vanish, am i not seeing something? thanks btw for the reply, even if i'm playing rogue since day1 new things keep coming out
tropic ocean
when mobs are close to dying
and he chains new pack
you can just stand out of aggro range stealth and then join in
but besides that, chainpulling is not as bad as one might think
elfin saffron
do i need 1 proc haste currop or just all haste%
wind nymph
@tropic ocean i see u know something about sin in m+, what do you suggest for this setup?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2q2sAzEnF5TT5dQkeN2a3V
pine badger
How do you play razer coral? Activate once on pull then again on your 2nd vendetta?
raven mica
And every vendetta after that.
rapid mirage
I just simmed my Expedient set (5.5k Haste) with my Severe Set (4.4k crit) and its saying my haste build is 25k dps higher in Dslice lol...
pine badger
So on 2nd vendetta I re-activate it 20 seconds after?
so i can get the crit for 3rd vendetta?
wind nymph
in m+ i basically pop it at every pack, in raid i pop it at 20+ stacks or at the 2nd vendetta
tropic ocean
@wind nymph idk just aim for 3 eb 3 ss
high crit+strikethrough stack
in m+ coral on cd
last ingot
is there a pvp helm from conquest u can get this week witth eb and ss?
wind nymph
@tropic ocean thanks a lot for ur time
tepid glacier
what would be the best traits to run 18s-20s this week
havent done a decent tyrannical key in a while
vast forum
depends on the other dps in your group and the dungeon
but i personally like using full ST traits for weeks like this, with CT
tepid glacier
Ye i was thinking about 3x SS with like np TTK and something else and CT
since i have 480 gorak tuls too
vast forum
if you have the option of 3ss 2hod 1bbi
fleet anchor
but i personally like using full ST traits for weeks like this, with CT
But CT is full ST 🤣
vast forum
it's not if you don't run 6-7 expedients @fleet anchor
fleet anchor
pfft!
vast forum
@tepid glacier NP is not very valuable for a 3ss exsang build
ttk is just not very useful either
fleet anchor
Probably around Expedient 14-15 is where it crosses over
vast forum
it's always 3ss with any kind of mix of EB/hod/bbi imo
fleet anchor
Although even at 10-12 it's pretty close
Like sub-1%
In the context of M+ I'd probably never run PB at this point with even a remotely high amount of Haste
vast forum
yea
i'm just saying, full ST with CT, even if you'd be running PB in pure ST with your gear 😄
fleet anchor
Fair enough, I was mostly joking 😄
I did run CT in raid last night though, felt good
Saw a bunch of CT parses trickling into the top-250 on Maut last night 😄
unkempt stump
Can anyone explain to me why the shrouded suffocation guys parse so high - but i sim higher with double dose? Do I need alot of haste?
They have like crazy amounts of haste
fleet anchor
SS and DD really aren't going to have too different value. But a lot of the people running SS are also running very high Haste which is contributing to their performance
lone junco
@unkempt stump the super high hasted SS exang, lines up over multipliers like /use trinket and vendetta and bote or clf. And don't rely on stars or procs. DD is a nice mut on Env and TB. So its more consistent throughout the fight.
It's good to see a few ways to play being close enough to each other. And besides. SS makes for a nice multi target option.
fleet anchor
Yeah that is the main advantage of the SS setup
It's just more flexible in being able to Vanish cleave on some fights
For main target damage there will be minimal difference between them
exotic trout
Anyone know when R3 expedient will be up?
cobalt pelican
no
orchid solstice
If almost all the reclear kills my guild is getting atm are between 3:30-4:00 long then is it worth running VoP for an extra vendetta
cobalt pelican
depends, probably? you can sim set fight lengths in advanced sim
orchid solstice
with MA DD build (not enough exp to go exanguinate yet)
cobalt pelican
you can sim like 220 seconds with duration deviation of 10% and prolly get somewhat usable results for most scenarios
ember stirrup
grizzled trail
exotic trout
@ember stirrup thanks!
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor but u wont use expedients in m+
fleet anchor
I mean, why not? Unless you are going in on an EB setup there is no reason not to.
If you are running an ST setup like Yoppa mentioned, you would be zero downside to running Expedient. The only real negative to running high Haste vs. Crit is the lack of synergy with Echoing Blades.
Think there is a pretty strong argument for moving away from EB setups into just a typical SS/Bleed build for M+ unless you are doing really huge pulls regularly.
Especially on Tyrannical weeks
civic hinge
Thats what I'm thinking about too, I'm heavily crit stacking right now with 1x EB trait, but somehow I'm feeling like Haste build would be overall just as fine
cobalt pelican
ya idk once you get it out of your head that energy as a resource isn't a valuable commodity
expedient is decent for the 0eb build in m+
it's just [dot tick faster] vs [dot tick harder]
civic hinge
And the burst is insane with heavy expedient stacking right now
Dont know about the haste build tho
whole mantle
guys, the exsang build is good on m+ this week for tyranical ?
tropic ocean
always good
@fleet anchor ? you will lose a lot of overall dmg
even in tyranical
for most dungeons
arctic acorn
Do we have a WA to track empo/exang garrote/rupture ?
fleet anchor
I mean it depends on if you think higher EB damage on large pulls of trash is better than doing significantly lower boss damage
snow sparrow
Going to sound super dumb but what is the expedient build? I've just seen top parses but I cant see how it ends up simming/pulling such high numbers
tropic ocean
don't really have issues with boss dmg
and im at 7% haste
vision minor pretty much solves it with exsang
dapper solar
can someone post the 115k+ dps sim with all bis
fallen sapphire
Guys why are people running SS/Exsang builds so much now, is it because of haste?
fleet anchor
Sure but the reality is EB is a totally dead trait on ST
fleet anchor
And Expedient stacking still has about 10% higher top-end damage than Crit stacking as well
tropic ocean
and the dps output on trash is significantly higher compared to 3 ss 3 hod or 3 ss 2hod 1 bbi
cuz u pretty much always pull 6+ mobs in non kr/tos/ws
not stacking crit either
stacking crit dmg
fleet anchor
Well it's the same thing. Looking at Severe/Strikethrough builds are generally just lower in ST no matter what you do
Even without EB
civic hinge
Is there any consens already about the "best" Setup for m+ right now in terms of corruptions?
I'm running Severe 13 / 1xGW / 1x Strikethrough 3 right now
fleet anchor
You would probably expect to be 20-30% less damage than a typical Expedient setup on bosses, minimum
When considering stats and traits
tropic ocean
not so sure
dapper solar
can someone post the 115k+ dps sim with all bis
fleet anchor
I don't really see much way around it? You are losing pure DPS from Haste vs. Crit, then losing the value of 3 Azerite slots
tropic ocean
you don't play the same essences in m+ you play in raid too
so no iris minor
for example
fleet anchor
Considering the Expedient/CT build can actually push pretty similar DungeonSlice numbers as Outlaw I don't really think it lacks for cleave DPS either tbh
tropic ocean
perseonally I think dslice is shit for sin
but to each its own
I tried using full expedient with vita and wrathion trinket with 3 ss 3 hod in junkyard
and even with increased procs from zap
it was already inferior overall to 3 ss 3 eb
not sure theres ever any point to up ur st by idk what 10,15%
or 20
but int rest
fleet anchor
I see no logical reason to come to that conclusion, but I know that is a sentiment people like to say because it doesn't show EB as being very strong due to its lack of valuation on the 1T and 2T segments of DS. But, IMO, that is a reality of most keys that people often ignore.
tropic ocean
well
boss kills on my key height 21/22 are usual around 4min
rest is aoe
however in raid now
can post some logs afetr m+
fleet anchor
DS is meant to given a weighted look at damage. Hence it generally shows EB has being borderline due to its inability to do strong boss damage. I think it's worth considering for most players that an EB setup has some significant weaknesses.
If you are choosing it with the knowledge it will really only be good on large pulls and mostly suck at everything else, that's certainly a fine approach.
I don't think that make DS less valuable for looking at overall ST vs. various cleave/pull sizes of 2-8 mobs