I havent seen anything past 113k
#assassination
rigid eagle
jesus christ dude
how much haste is that
if u switch outlaw and take SnD your auto animation will crash the game
raw rune
not my sim 🙂
im stuck at like 96 or something lol
dont have that many exps
thats like r21 exp, r6 severe
rigid eagle
but expedient basically has no cap?
like it keep scaling until you run out of item slots?
raw rune
yeah
rigid eagle
wow
raw rune
personally my current build outside of combat is nearly 50% haste and 40% crit
with like 6% vers and 35% mast
rigid eagle
why do people with like 5% less vers than me have like double my haste
raw rune
exp gives me +40% haste basically
raw rune
like r10 lol
raw rune
lmao
fast pine
I m simming less with my expediant build than with infinite star build for raid. Since im oding irion to shad tonight you guys think I should put my expediants on my pieces and use them or wait to have more ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xwsT5Cp1Qth8T64xMM9zYC
drifting cosmos
Just saw it's 93 corruption did you base this on end of season Cape lvl?
In shad stars are good
raw rune
are you implying you don't stack stupid amounts of corruption to bully your healers?
drifting cosmos
Prob one of few fights stars is actually not bad
rigid eagle
man i feel like everyone is simming for raid now
drifting cosmos
Don't know, do you survive through +80 corruption?
I imagine the circle would be your whole screen?
raw rune
I've run like 130 on maut lol
its a lot
yes
but it doesnt always proc
plus you can take like 2-3 stacks then cloak
or use active
plus feint
and you can just blind/kidney/cheap/run the fuck away from tfb
drifting cosmos
Yea idk, in m+ 40+ feels like the circle is procing a lot already
raw rune
oh ye m+ is diff to raid tho
fast pine
in M+ i think 59 is high
drifting cosmos
But the feint thingy def help
fast pine
in raid you can go to 70 +
raw rune
I run 38 for m+, tfb just pisses me off
rigid eagle
yeah sub 40 is prolly best
fucking 47 corruption illusion already chunks half my healthbar
scarlet meteor
At what point during the rotation should I be using blood of the enemy?
jolly helm
I usually use it after vendetta before toxic blade
drifting cosmos
After toxic blade
You want to use Env right after bote
Pretty sure it's covered in the guide
rigid eagle
@drifting cosmos that's an extra GCD after Toxic blade tho and toxic blade is 1 second shorter than BotE
raw rune
honestly Id rather use clf for tb
rigid eagle
or are we doing for the crit dmg buff?
raw rune
and bote for xsang
drifting cloud
you do it because it sims as the most dmg
drifting cosmos
Yea because bote buff > toxic buff
scarlet meteor
drifting cosmos
Especially first couple of seconds
scarlet meteor
What can I change to do more damage?
drifting cloud
dont use 2x eb and pp minor for starters
jolly helm
@scarlet meteor for M+ or Raid, which encounter? You have to take all of these into considerations.
scarlet meteor
I want to push higher M+
drifting cosmos
Like DD is super bad in m+
drifting cosmos
And pp is bad for m+ most of the time
scarlet meteor
Should I sim for hectic cleave?
drifting cloud
its hard to sim assa for m+
you kinda just need to know what you need
atleast the basics
winged basin
rank 3 BoTE vs CLF?
drifting cosmos
You can Sim ds or hc for reference but I think you just need to play more and understand how rogue aoe works
urban minnow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
manic pebble
should I replace my gloves?
the one I'm using has corruption effect while the other one has higher ilevels
drifting cosmos
Yes
manic pebble
oh yea, I forgot about that
yep, you're right, I lost like 1.5k dmg with the new gloves on lol
last gyro
do you guys go poison bomb for m+ or maybe crimson tempest? I would imagine that crimson scales with haste as well ?
pseudo hamlet
You don't go haste for M+. Poison bomb is better in this week I think(tyrannical).
spice sparrow
@pseudo hamlet why not it works fine for me for 20-22 keys
Bote feels shit tho with the haste build so messing around with beam as major.
pseudo hamlet
@spice sparrow crit seems stronger(at least for me) with BoTE, so that may be the case
warm drift
When u forced to play haste% because no other options. Sure it's viable. But when u can chose i would go crit/critdmg build. Mabye some high tyrannical kr or something, haste% is good.
fathom swift
Haste has way less value in aoe cause you already get tons of energy regen from bleeds up on multiple targets
spice sparrow
ofc you lose some dps on big packs, but you prob outdmg everyone else on the boss as ST
@quasi pewter what you think about the haste in M+. I see you are trying it also
normal sphinx
spice sparrow
sitting at 55%, I need to be at like 65-70% so you can drop lucid essence for a better one
last gyro
so 65%-70% for dropping lucid
that seems doable
I feel like with exa haste is not as bad in m+ since you have priority dmg tho
you can melt one enemy
dunno seems kinda good
warm drift
U get tons of energy from multidotting
rigid eagle
i kinda dont get why does exsang scale with high haste lol
manic pebble
how many % of Versatility do you guys have?
rigid eagle
ur bleed is ticking faster but ur not actually dealing more overall dmg with the bleed
is it literally just to spam more envenom during downtime?
sage plank
Well if you drive 10km fast so you haveenough time to drive another 5km , thats more kilometers driven than these 10 if you drive slow
And you get two complete empowered garrotes in
last gyro
also your bleeds scale with haste don't they ?
rigid eagle
ik why exsang gives u more dmg, but idk why exsang scale with haste
haste makes your bleed tick more OFTEN right?
sage plank
Jep
rigid eagle
like, instead of 100 dmg every second its 50 dmg every 0.5 sec
no increase to overall damage, just shorter delays between ticks to generate more energy
last gyro
with insane amounts of haste you burst like fire mage.
in visions with gift proc I can easily burst to 300k :D
rigid eagle
but why though
sage plank
I think its more like 100 dps to 100 damager per 0,5 second
last gyro
also just bleeds do more dmg with haste overall. Like when I equip items without haste my bleeds deal less dmg
rigid eagle
wait am i not understanding what haste does
spice sparrow
on paper HoD is also stronger then EB traits
pseudo hamlet
Haste reduce the time of each "tick". I mean - instead of rupture doing 100 dmg every 1 sec it can do 100 dmg every 0,7s. etc.
sage plank
Yeah sry my english is bad :D
pseudo hamlet
Why would it?
sage plank
Thanks eazye
pseudo hamlet
What would be the gains of using haste in bleed spec? So your opponents would be dying smoother? lol
rigid eagle
that's what i was wondering lol
i thought haste just made our passive tick faster
and give more energy
so i was hella confused
god damn i would've bought the shit out of expedient three if i knew this
now im actually malding REEEE
sage plank
It will come back, just farm echoes until
pseudo hamlet
- plenty of people were buying Expedient
rigid eagle
lol i legit joined today lol
last gyro
pseudo hamlet
Ouch
rigid eagle
got aotc last night after a month of grinding like the game is my work
now i wanna experiement
last gyro
no worries like eazye said it will come back
rigid eagle
i want something fun but nothing too crazy
so i didnt go sub
wanted to try exsang so i came here for advice lol
last gyro
sub with mastery stacking seems fun tho
sage plank
Rouge discord is the most superior class discord
last gyro
1,7mil crits
pseudo hamlet
It was Lukas, but yeah, it'll come back... in 2-3 weeks maybe. 
rigid eagle
is sub still viable?
last gyro
I dunno is it worth doing expedient on an item I might exchange later ?
like I have 3 on the bank
rigid eagle
i play illidan alliance so i pug 24/7, but i've NEVER seen a sub rogue
sand whale
sub rogues are all about RP in bfa, they are so subtle they don't exist
rigid eagle
from the sounds of it sub isnt just weak right
arctic walrus
If it’s not at least 465 then probably don’t corrupt it just yet
rigid eagle
u gotta refresh nightblade when u dont need to just do buff evisc?
last gyro
I hope sub gets some good improvements with shadowlands
arctic walrus
I mean the azerite is fine. Their numbers are just behind and their niche comes up very little
sage plank
Well i loved sub in wod was insane but since than the playstyle has gone downhill
rigid eagle
dfa sub was pretty fun
last gyro
I liked it in legion with the death from above
rigid eagle
yeh
rigid eagle
i liked not having to build crit tbh
focusing everything on mastery and versa felt good
no rng
last gyro
rng is why i hate stars and tentacle
pseudo hamlet
There are sub rogues that did every boss in Nyalotha on mythic, so they still seems viable... though I think that Assa is easier to play, more forgiving and has much "fluent" rotation.
last gyro
one try that shit does 50% of your dmg the other try it does like 5
rigid eagle
@pseudo hamlet i genuinely don't think anyone enjoys refreshing a dot that's still got plenty of time left, just to buff your dmg finisher...
rigid eagle
@last gyro so for ur exsang build, do you still take any strikethrough?
last gyro
if you apply your garrot from stealth do you let it run out completly
arctic walrus
Just because a spec has cleared a mythic raid 3 months after it’s been irrelevant doesn’t make a spec viable
last gyro
@rigid eagle I have atm and it sims better still atm but with one expedient more I can exchange that and haste is flatout better
rigid eagle
wait how many exp do u have
last gyro
4 equipped 3 still in bank sorry if that was confusing.
I read that again and was like I would have misunderstood
last gyro
unbuffed 51%
pseudo hamlet
@arctic walrus why? They have done the mythic bosses. I didn't mean that spec is viable for progress, more like - "play what you want and see if you can do it".
last gyro
with 2 slots that don't have haste on them
rigid eagle
how..
last gyro
with food it's like 53/54
rigid eagle
a single exp got u to 50%?
sage plank
I think raz sits at over 60%
last gyro
3 still in bank since I dunno if I wanna corrupt smth
rigid eagle
wait so
loud silo
raz is like 70% if i remember correctly
arctic walrus
I mean sure at this point in an expansion play whatever the fuck You want
rigid eagle
so you equipped 4 exp and still have 3 stored up?
sage plank
Oh or 70
arctic walrus
But when you play sub you’ll be punished for mistakes harder and should never do more damage as you could’ve as sin
rigid eagle
so how much haste should i get before i make the switch to exsang lol
last gyro
hat like 15 vessels laying around
pseudo hamlet
That's exactly what I wrote above.
sage plank
I have like 30% with 1 expedient it sims a bit less for singletarget, but has higher dps in multitarget fights especially m+ so i changed. You always sim top gear and see what one expedient does for you
last gyro
raidbots added an option for putting corruption on different pieces
gray flower
primal turret
Is there any corruption worth to buy atm or should i save Echoes?
slow helm
whats the exsanguinate rogues in here running for azerite traits? (raiding)
rigid eagle
it's still good to take one nothing personal right
or does exsang sin not even need that energy
rigid eagle
yikes lol
primal turret
The most common is 3xSS 2xHoD 1xBlightborne Infusion
rigid eagle
now i feel like im wasting my life playing the basic TB build
sand whale
it's okay you're not missing on much parsing these days are just all about if your raid lets you and your corruption goes crazy
tb is love
rigid eagle
lol i just like the fantasy of exsang way better man
bleeds are way more fun than poisons lel
jovial spear
How much haste is required to go bleed build?
rigid eagle
10 million
slow helm
so 3ss and 3 hod?
rigid eagle
blightborn infusion is REALLY op
sly fern
If I understood correctly, 3ss will works better than 3dd only with high-end ilvl azerith armor
slow helm
what about the engenering helmet?
rigid eagle
the outer ring for engineering helm is complete dogshit right
rigid eagle
yeah twist the knife is like a pvp thing
DD kinda just doesn't work with exsang right
jovial spear
Do you still run razor coral with bleed build? Or is it better to get ra den trinket + wrathion trinket for the haste?
rigid eagle
raden trinket is pog but wrathion trinket is questionable
slow helm
so atm im running vita and dice (460-465)
last gyro
I ahve raden and galecallers
since i fuck up with coral to much
I legit have no clue how to use it correctly cause I'm 
dark crag
Use at pull and then with vendetta, reapply when its ready again
hearty junco
is there a guide on the SS/exsang build? What corr and stats to aim for
tropic ocean
expedients
as much haste as possible until your sim tells you something else is better
jovial spear
I guess Mastery is also good for this?
hearty junco
ok but 2nd stat
what would be advisable?
thinking what items i should corrupt
haste/crit, haste/mast?
tropic ocean
the 1 that sims highest
here u can clone all ur gear to have expedient e.g.
and sim top gear and see
hearty junco
but then i need to change talents and azerite to the ss build ingame?
hearty junco
ty
static shoal
Hey I was wonder what the crit threshold is for assiassination, also if running gushing wounds has any merit in a exasanguante build
whole mantle
guys, this exanguinate build, i see many rogues run with IS, is required?
night vale
Nah probably just running IS cause they have such high haste for pure Single target fights
arctic token
sorry if this is a terrible question. but when you BoE in mythic plus.. or heavy trash packs in general you use fan of knives because of aze trait. generating a ton of combo points.. are you using the combo points or just spamming knives during your BoE window. also id already have 3 garrotes and ruptures going on trash.. so short version spam fan or also use points on enevenom during BoE windo
whole mantle
just spam
arctic token
thats what i thought. but then thought damn all those instant combo points wasted
whole mantle
I do this: during the BoTE window spam without spending, after it ends I spam until the EP buff drops, then I go back to spam until drops again
like 3 FOK 1 envenom/rupture depening of your ennergy on moment
but idk if is the best way
works to me
xd
can be different depending on the amount of echoing blades traits you have
tropic ocean
M+ AoE Openers
With Crimson Tempest talented
G1 G2 G3 CT FoK R1 BotE 5xFoK
Without Crimson Tempest
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK
green saffron
Have anyone try to simc/test stack Severe corruption for Sin? will it be strong?
quaint forge
What is the BiS trinket that you can get from M+ dungeons?
arctic cloud
Anyone simmed the Mechagon trinket yet ?
ember iron
If i have 3x SS/EB and a r3 MF should i try prioritise crit still or vers? I find my ST isnt brilliant even with the 470ilev MF3
dense blaze
Does a garrote with shrouded suffocation cast from Shadowmeld do the same damage as casting it from stealth?
frigid sleet
Yes but you wont benefit subterfuge
dense blaze
Yeah I got that part just want to make sure I am not griefing when shadowmeld garroting at pandemic
frigid sleet
Well you are if you refresh a subterfuge+ss garrote for a ss one only
dense blaze
Yeah 80% damage seems big doesn't it
glad compass
for me however i sim it seems that 2 gushing on 485 pieces and the rest expedient seems to to be the best
deft obsidian
Curious to see how much GW costs 
plain thistle
Same as masteful rank2 did last week, since its 15 corruption
wispy plaza
sup sinners
i can run 3x SS keep 1NP 1 HD and even a Bi yet its simming 2k lower but im told this is the play
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/de1HutejuRCtv5TkzKrtz4
Thoughts ?
heavy forum
I dont have memory og lucid dream and cab Get it. What should be the replacement? I do t play so much
tropic ocean
@wispy plaza not much to think
It is the play if you have better gear than you have
But even at 2k less sim dps it can be superior in cleave fights
So sim on a per fight basis instead of patchwerk
harsh sphinx
didn't sim with deeper from what i see but. might be about equal for you still https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pYYTH2WxkQR6uFPN5RNXyV
faint harness
the boss dmg in p2 is prob the most important part of it
and theres some downtime
but i think regular 5 min patchwerk sims should be good enough
wispy plaza
okay thanks then i guess ill trust the sims on this also @harsh sphinx would you actaully recommend i use that essence group or stick to the one im currently using ive never really grasp how much to take away from sims
consiering for m nzoth progression on logs all rogues seem to be using the ones im currently using
harsh sphinx
whatever your most comfy with imo if you like blood stick with it. they are all pretty close in the sim. try it out and see how you like it is my recommendation
loud silo
2% wipe on cara, feelsbad
wispy plaza
alright thanks @harsh sphinx xoxo
tropic ocean
ss exsang is especially good on nzoth due to fight nature
25s boss dps window
Multitarget tent cleave
High burst dps if assigned psychus
faint harness
psychus dmg quickly becomes irrelevant if you have a decent raid comp
and you would rather spend cds on nzoth when he's vulnerable in p1
calm lily
hey:D you do blood of the enemy after exsang right? buy you miss a few ticks with it ... why dont we do it before exsang?
faint harness
i would assume its another gcd
and the crit dmg from bote lasts 5 sec right
another gcd = another second of garrote you're not exanging
lime edge
at around how much haste does exsang start being better?
just want to know how far i am
lime edge
how many expedients do both of u have
cold meteor
4
cold meteor
r3
cold meteor
ye
lime edge
hmm
lime edge
oh lol
tropic ocean
it depends on your azerite too
cold meteor
ye
lime edge
3x ss
cold meteor
no Cara chest & Raden helm
cold meteor
3 SS, 2 OP, 2 HoD, 1 BBI
tropic ocean
@faint harness very setup depandent
cold meteor
still behind
tropic ocean
We changed both rogues to cd psychus in rekills
cold meteor
because 465 helm and 475 chest
cold meteor
For me, Maut helm is better than those
arctic cloud
Yo quick question, pretty sure i take heart of darkness trait over NP from the raden helm right?
fine.
tropic ocean
well its the only correct answer
arctic cloud
was trying to save time 😛
daring olive
HoD gains a great deal of value depending on how many stat amp corruptions you have so
hard to say
tropic ocean
for dd build with goraks and vexiona u most likeky pick np
With exsang most likely hod
heavy forum
So when is the corr vendor changing?
daring olive
every wednesday/saturday for EU
faint harness
we will see the new vendor values tomorrow
heavy forum
Ahh something worth buying now? Cant check atm
faint harness
when NA resets
sick oyster
Anyone playing SS haste Build with mecha ring set? If so what combinations did it beat for you
arctic cloud
turns out my new headpiece is a 4k dps increase feelsgood
sick oyster
Ye I got the set yesterday but don’t have other high rings so was wondering
tropic ocean
Beats mythic nzoth + 475 ring by a large amount
daring olive
It beats any ring set if you have expedients
sick oyster
Ok that’s what I wanted to know thx
tropic ocean
stat amounts are low on rings so
sick oyster
Got 3x exp3 first rotation
daring olive
It gets massively amped
sick oyster
Also I got the hunming Trinket, is it ever worth considering?
tropic ocean
Vita+ x
sick oyster
Feels like it has a pretty high up time
daring olive
Its okay, but vita is definitely better
sick oyster
And you get to crazy haste levels
faint harness
It does, but low amount
tropic ocean
Either coral/plumage/gladiator badge or galecallers
sick oyster
Ye Vita + humming
tropic ocean
For most
daring olive
The haste value is too low so gains less from expedients
faint harness
Math wise its not better than vita
sick oyster
Ye think will go for plumage and sim / test
scarlet sequoia
medallion *
sick oyster
Also Are you guys playing DS now by default?
strange python
Hey guys, i'm back to wow for like 2months and only been playing sin rogue. idk what gear upgrades i should try to work towards now.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/zi9jWLPTLUE8H6NxAoFXT
tropic ocean
@scarlet sequoia sry 😣
sick oyster
Try to run droptimizer for the content you have access to I guess
tropic ocean
@sick oyster ya no energy issues with expedients
sick oyster
@tropic ocean tbh the best feeling about DS was 7sec kidney haha
daring olive
both medallion and plumage sim lower for me atm, not sure if coral just sims pointlessly high with bleed build regardless
scarlet sequoia
pvp is mfd but ye
daring olive
yeah if you play anything but mfd in pvp you're trolling
loud brook
I mean coral is like stars
tropic ocean
its not
honest vessel
wut
honest vessel
coral is stars if you could guaruntee the target you want, and its good at low death timers
loud brook
doesnt it lose value when any type of adds are introduced because they can steal stacks?
tropic ocean
for stars yes
for coral
no
u choose the target u want it on
and if u put it on targets that die during it u can just apply it to next mob
while having the buff
honest vessel
ye just let the thing die and it gives u the buff without going on cd, op op
stars 😠
loud brook
tropic ocean
and for fights with dmg amplifiers
like in nzoth u can let it stack on boss
by keeping a dot on him
and extract with high stacks on psychus
honest vessel
^
tropic ocean
and pump
loud brook
discusteng
honest vessel
o, can also just keep on nzoth stacking til nzoth burn phase to get more important dmg
honest vessel
i'd say p much everything has a question
but they are very strong
better than any other base ring comp
but like corruptions and shiz may? change that for u
scarlet sequoia
yes theyre bis now that u can just put corruption on them
honest vessel
tru
lime edge
gotcha
tropic ocean
well its just a high amount of free stats with 100% uptime
that other rings dont have
lime edge
true
tropic ocean
and the stat difference on rings is very small
tropic ocean
like 465 ring has 573 second stat
ad 475 has 591 second stat
and the proc gives 189 haste before expedient so
😄
485 ring has 35 more second stat than 465 so yeah
farm that mechagon
tropic ocean
difference is marginal
lime edge
true
tropic ocean
which there was more things like these for other slots to farm
to actually have something to do 😄
tropic ocean
well you can to some extent
im glad theres some timegating for things like that
else pugging would be way worse imo
cuz your score wouldnt matter as much anymore when ppl that just grinded all bis shit in few weeks queue against u
😛
loud brook
true
I just like doing runs with guildies and would like being able to get pieces from dungeons to trade around or use for specs that I never play, like sub
but yeah, I can see how shit would spiral out of control
tropic ocean
they just need to balance the azerite better I guess thats over now with addon ending
faint harness
nothing is safe
tropic ocean
either balance traits better generally or let you choose the azerite on a piece
faint harness
they just suddenly nerfed GW
tropic ocean
cuz how the traits are put for sin for example
terrible
and trait balancing is troll anyway
loud brook
yup
faint harness
try sub traits if you want to see a shitshow
tropic ocean
instead of having traits that are good for 1 thing and others for another thing u pretty much have 1 op trait
and rest is trash
loud brook
I tried
tropic ocean
and then they put them so awkwardly random on the pieces
loud brook
apparently the eviscerate one is bis
tropic ocean
like echoing is good for aoe
so u can either play it with double dose or unstable catalyst
:DDDDDDD
or just disenchant the helm
tropic ocean
i mean theres good helms just on some pieces i dont see a reasoning behind the traits put
like why would u put aoe trait on r1 and st trait on ring 2
when theres helms with 2 st traits and 2 aoe traits
loud brook
yeah this shit's so dumb
heavy forum
I dont have memory of lucid dream and cbaGet it. What should be the replacement? I dont play so much
scarlet sequoia
get it
heavy forum
No takes ages
scarlet sequoia
no
its 10 min of dailies for a week
if u wanna be optimal and play without it u will have to do a whole lot more than that
daring olive
If you dont wanna farm things you're playing the wrong game xd
jovial spear
What essence is best for major with exsang build? on a single target fight
brazen garden
CLF?
loud brook
clf or blood
loud brook
pick your poison
jovial spear
kk, worldvein resonance is shit?
daring olive
Not a large difference between the two, depends on fight length
scarlet sequoia
large difference on sims, but clf tends to bug out and lose casts
so blood is probably better in most cases
having played both, it doesnt really matter much
loud brook
clf just tilts me more cause it gets desynced unless i take vop as a minor
scarlet sequoia
so does blood?
daring olive
If you only get two vendettas in a fight you're meant to hold vendetta for a minute for 2nd clf
sullen pagoda
didnt someone sim back in EP that doesnt really make a difference anyway
crimson palm
diff build
loud brook
I mean, the cd desync doesn't matter, it just irks me psychologically
yeah, but with blood I can justify holding it if there's an add cleave situation that needs to be taken care of with cds
so it's slightly less annoying
rigid mango
Aligning vend to clf was a gain, but not huge. I think when they added it doing it properly in a 5 min sim it was something like 300 dps maybe?
Long time ago so I don't remember but I talked to koji about it back then iirc.
wild edge
the new bleed build sims better with condens life-force, but boe is probably better bc of timings at some bosses or?
blissful storm
Question, do I reapply rupture and garrote on boss during Vendetta, when I play with talents Exsang and Subterfuge?
I saw some vids and logs of top rogue that reapply those dots after Vendetta is over
tropic ocean
depending on how close the essences sim
if u dont plan on lining clf for the dps gain
might as well just play blood
@wild edge yes
difference usually isnt really big anyway
cobalt kindle
someone using ring with 3different ability to trigger haste? huge lose from damage from behind?
cobalt pelican
it's like ~2k simdps so it's not that small
cobalt kindle
thats a lot
cobalt pelican
but what raz is saying seems to be kinda tru on lost casts from looking at some of my own sample logs
so idk
fathom swift
lost casts?
cobalt pelican
mmm
i can't say that i've paid super attention to it
but for example
a single clf during lust in sim is getting ~34 total casts, on wrathion i got 26, xanesh 29, raden 28, shadhar 34
fathom swift
is it a precasting thing maybe
cobalt pelican
it'll obviously vary a bit like if op randomly procs in the opener and you're on 8 trillion haste so minor log checking like this isn't great but
maybe, the shadhar log is the only log i didn't prepull clf
(because i forgot)
fathom swift
that'd be my guess cause sims precast at 0 and you usually gotta do it at like 1-2s
cobalt pelican
i'm pretty close with it, 1 second shouldn't be ~8 casts
unless he's a FAST ASS BOY
fathom swift
yeah looking at my logs where I precast it's just not casting for the first 3-4s of the fight
or at least the casts arent hitting until then
wild edge
can i reaply my bleedings when i clicked exsanguinate without loosing dmg, or do i need wait till my bleedings ended an reaply it at 1 sec?
royal lantern
wild edge
ok thanks, i wasnt sure, the tooltip on the enemy doesnt change when you click it
outer lotus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xq8NxaCPVkrD2bs3xRPJ3R is it mainly the lack of a good helmet with SS that makes exsang/deeper still so much worse for me? seems like my haste should be pretty high
cobalt pelican
chest and helm ya
and it's not purely haste restricted tbh
i have like 68% base haste and it's still worse for me than the normal build, cutoffs are kinda blurry and weird
cobalt pelican
it's like 2k worse than carapace chest
deft obsidian
Yeah they make a huge diff. I finally got ra’dens helm which was big, the difference between using vex and carapace is actually way bigger than I thought
cobalt pelican
generally dd ends up performing better than np on vex
and even then it's not great
deft obsidian
It works out near 3k or something for me
outer lotus
wha really?
tropic ocean
yeah
outer lotus
i have a heroic one, gonna test that
cobalt pelican
heroic carapace is interchangable with vex for me
cobalt pelican
it's just not great
deft obsidian
I run DD and SS
deft obsidian
NP sims like ~800 less for me
cobalt pelican
so the first is the same as the 2nd
cobalt pelican
which is just straight worse than stats, which benefit from stat amps
outer lotus
damn i always simmed with 1 NP locked in
cobalt pelican
dd is very good with this much haste tbh so like
vex chest playing dd/ss is ''''''okay''''''''
but it's still significantly worse
and the helm you have is just
the poopoos
deft obsidian
Yeah for sure
outer lotus
btw is the APL properly taking advantage of meticulous scheming? it sims really well for other haste-loving specs but for some reason it seems bad on sin
yea my helmets are all trash
rough sapphire
Hey Guys, as Assa there is a "hardcap" for haste?
dark crag
No
tropic ocean
well as sin doesnt really press 3 different spells regularly
outer lotus
Maut helmet sims worse than leviathan though even though maut has DD. no OP i guess
tropic ocean
if you dont need your kick for something else yeha
cobalt pelican
i don't think any apl has specific setups for meticulous
i know arms doesn't for example
just some specs do it naturally
outer lotus
i remember it simming really really well on arms
dark crag
Use detection
cobalt pelican
yeah but you pretty much always cast 3 unique spells in that window
fair ether
hey dudes i'm trying to play 3garrote traits spec, which stats i should go for ?
cobalt pelican
like uinless it procsi n the opener just after cs
outer lotus
so does the sim sometimes not trigger it?
cobalt pelican
you'll always have either an op, skullsplitter, ms, or whirlwind in there
not checked tbh
outer lotus
cuz if u track it that shouldnt happen
because of tricks and kick and even sprint
shadow step
cobalt pelican
i'd imagine so though, there's definitely 8second windows where you just aren't pressing 3 buttons, especially with exsang
outer lotus
like u always have something free
does detection actually trigger it? dont even know
cobalt pelican
no idea, never played it on my rogue
i'd imagine it does
but you don't have gcds for that really
it's worth checking kick and tricks though
outer lotus
those should definitely work
i remember on hunter i used kick and feign death i think
cobalt pelican
generally if they work so does detection unless the ev change blanketed other spells
deft obsidian
Did someone mention re: mech rings which was the better version from Junkyard?
And if there is much of a sim difference between them
Scrolling on mobile is
white igloo
What’s everyone’s thoughts on assassination and arenas in terms of using gushing wounds or stacking versatility? Keeping nerf in mind.
outer lotus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hTodKcc8SSJNZQgU7hs3CM hmm so deeper stratagem + toxic blade is my highest simming setup now 
deft obsidian
Haste all is well sunk in 😂 just wasn’t sure how much a diff but figured the 3 abilities was shit
outer lotus
with SS traits
tropic ocean
probably depends a lot on your arting @white igloo
until 2150 or so figured that many dont even kill tents so
dps probably good choice
white igloo
2200
tropic ocean
in higher pretty sure versa
wet ruin
at 1.9 people are already killing tentacles
cobalt pelican
i think you just play deeper with everything now
there's no real use for vigor
i'd pretty much always just play vers in arena tbh even at low rating
outer lotus
how do i see what stats i have in a sim? i know koji told me my stats once when i linked a sim
outer lotus
yea
outer lotus
thats disabled if you have more than like 2 combinations right?
cobalt pelican
yeah, in top gear you don't get a report
just grab the set and take it to quick sim
outer lotus
ooh smort
outer lotus
hm i thought i had way more haste lol
outer lotus
ooh
cobalt pelican
cause i have like 4600 haste ingame and it'll show like ~2300 for me
amber quail
How much haste you run to sim Around 90k +???
And how you play in M+?
I’m not sure to convert TAx4 to expediet 6
And i’m not able to sim that 😭
last gyro
I dunnno guys EB sims worse for me
then 3ss +2 HoD and 1 Blightborne
shall I still take it
strange python
@amber quail why are you unable to sim that?
late tusk
Hello everyone, what corruptions should i focus for pve/pvp??
strange python
haste for raid, crit for m+ and vers for pvp, i think?
elder surge
i'd guess you still want to put ta on your ilvl 485 gear
late tusk
But at corruptions?
elder surge
strange python
what are the bis stats for assa ?
late tusk
I mean, not devastation or something like that
cobalt pelican
ta is generally only if you're playing for the high roll
on average it's just not very good
this is 11 procs in 2.5mins
strange python
you see TA in top logs because it has such a high variance
elder surge
sure looks fun though
strange python
if you like the rng yeah it is
late tusk
Sad then i get a t3 devastation
5 mins ago and looks like i will keep at 44ks dps
Thanks anyway
strange python
keep it for when you play outlaw
strange python
if you got echoes to spare you could buy versatile
and save up for when expedient comes back in
idk depends how much you pvp i guess
faint harness
i wonder what assassination has to do with this
strange python
changed once
eternal furnace
Hi guys, new to the channel 🙂 just got my rogue to 120 and want to start playing a mix of pvp and pve and not suck - i can see there's different stat prios based on what you're playing but can you play assass well in raid/mythic or is outlaw the best dps output? if so i can just keep my assass spec for pvp and outlaw for pve.. if it's viable, is there a generic stat to aim for? i'm seeing haste/mastery or?
summer cedar
after. You wanna press BoTE immediately after toxic blade
urban minnow
@summer cedar so an opener would look like ?
summer cedar
I do: garrote, mut, rupture, Vendetta, mut to 4 CP, toxic blade, BotE, envemon
Also im using subterfuge. It's slightly different with master assassin
urban minnow
im using subt as well
is MA better to use in m+? when is MA better than Sbut?
subt
summer cedar
Nop you always want subt in M+
woeful minnow
in m+? never?
summer cedar
For ST you gotta 
woeful minnow
maybe if your tank literally chain pulled the entire dungeon and younever got to restealth once
summer cedar
But if it was one long pull you wouldnt get any benefit from MA either
lime edge
do u run internal bleeding with exsang
cold sail
@summer cedar This is opener on WoWhead. So I would just use BoTE after Toxic blade?
urban minnow
that wowhead opener...wouldnt u only have 1 combo point for rupture? confused
woeful minnow
shrouded suffocation azerite trait
urban minnow
ah ok
arctic harness
maybe if your tank literally chain pulled the entire dungeon and younever got to restealth once
@woeful minnow even then you want subt, but you would be fucked regardless
woeful minnow
that's literally the most extreme case I could think of where MA could possibly be close to sub in a m+ scenario
fair ether
hey everyone, i'm trying to play with SS traits, what do you think about this sim ? I think my dps is too low rn
clear tulip
what azerite traits would you usually go in m+
lime edge
3x SS 3x EB
clear tulip
aight thanks
cold sail
@summer cedar Thanks!
pearl jungle
Someone knows the next corruption pack on wednesday?
scarlet sequoia
yes
pearl jungle
can u tell me?
scarlet sequoia
no
lime edge
sub vs sin for pvp?
mint oar
what corruption should i get for sin?
distant lava
Expedient
vast forum
expedient for raids
turbid galleon
@fair ether Swap your weapons around. The higher ilvl should always be in the main hand
vast forum
@fair ether also, force multiplier isn't the best option for most ppl
lime edge
clf 3 easy to get?
uneven summit
Quick question, trinkets for Mythic Nzoth assa?
wintry turret
uneven summit
Seems like Coral is very low value on mythic compared to HC
terse plaza
Is it still better to use lower rank BoE Essence while i have these other higher rank essences?
sullen cloak
Hey I just swapped from outlaw to assassination, I’ve been playing with the bleed bike with esang. I was wondering what crit I need to be too since it out values haste ATM for my sim?
wintry turret
Higher I think
terse plaza
Which one do you think would replace BOE?
I am close to getting rank 2 of it like 1000 more honor
100*
or 100 i guess lol i forgot
wintry turret
For pvp or pve
Or multi ?
Rank 3 is better but some rank 2 better in some stuations
For exp crit is important for mytic plus so boe is good choice
terse plaza
Pve mostly m+ as you said
wintry turret
But low with single
terse plaza
Whats wrong
crimson palm
nothing's wrong go on
wintry turret
Pls say if I am wrong 😁
Iris is also good
But not with single target
Actually use boe fir major after u make it 3
terse plaza
Well rank 2 is almost ready but i am long way away from rank 3
faint harness
Yikes
uncut walrus
same for VOP
vast forum
eh
uncut walrus
but by far one of the easiest to farm
vast forum
maybe refrain from giving advice if you're not sure what you're talking about 🙂
wintry turret
Try to make perfection its easy
Lucid and breath is all about dailies
So in 20 days ur essences gonna be full
tall rose
is the eng helm worth leveling engineering this late in the game
faint harness
Depends on your level of play
west cove
yeah, im rlly struggling with it, despite bursting at over 100k
does cloak help at a certain time, or just gotta accept the debuff
crimson palm
ye u can use an immunity
crystal blaze
Hey, i don't understand why raidbot told me to change all my sockets for crit instead of haste, and switch to gorak thul's shoulders, i thought the goal was to aim for maximum haste. Before this i was at 3500 haste, and now i'm only at 2850 (42%) and haste is still my third strongest stat.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hmPPpyxApLmvRvC96JFzyk
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kvJpS7EVPvtqzPtDdYLjdV
tropic ocean
the goal is to aim for maximumhaste
if u are decked with expedients
and have the appropriate azerite
also, dont sim stat weights but top gear
obviously with only 3 expedients your haste doesn't pull so much ahead thats superior to the rest
crystal blaze
Ok, so with more expedient haste will pull ahead ?
uneven summit
ofc xD
rancid spade
just go full haste + full expedient + subterfuge + ds + exsang + clf
crystal blaze
only got 3 expedient atm
i got the 3 BiS azerite, ra den/illgy/cara, but gorak thul's shoulder sim higher atm
paper kelp
without expedient is DD nothing personal still better than the exsang build ?
mortal umbra
Would you guys choose 3'rd doubble dose, or 1'st Nothing Personal?
tropic ocean
I would choose what sims superior
@paper kelp and noone can answer it you, it depends on your killtime, on the fight, on what your raid needs
but surely exsang is superior in cleave fights compared to dd
mortal umbra
@tropic ocean the diffrence are 36 dps
mortal umbra
ty
lime edge
is there a macro to target and cast poisoned knife on thing from beyond
split junco
r
upper spear
Thoughts on Galecaller's Boon? got a 465 last night.
upper spear
@lime edge just use /target Twisted Appendage
/cast Poisoned Knife
lime edge
huh
upper spear
for tendrils in PVP, i assume it would work the same for thing from beyond
lime edge
twisted appendage?
oh
does thing have a special name
or just
/target Thing From Beyond
outer lotus
you cant target macro it
upper spear
I would assume, personally i just fan when it comes up but poison dagger might be a better idea
lime edge
u cant? fuck
i hope there are weak auras that give me a box to just target it
like gladius in pvp
cause using poison knife on a thing from beyond is so op
teal forge
lime edge
200%
bleak mauve
whats the best corruption to buy from mother to do raid with assassination?
lime edge
expedient 3
strange python
Hi, so for BiS azerite gear from M+
i have to roll it from vendor right? doesnt drop from bosses?
sick oyster
Ss/eb is from the vendor yes
Depending on Dung/affix etc a ss/ ttk build will work as well
strange python
Also, im looking at the guide on ravenholdt. looking at rotation but I dont see one with subterfuge rotation
when im opening with garrote
should i spread garrote across targets? is that what it is saying
I mean ur opener depends on if u aoe open or st and if u run shrouded suffocation or if u are talented with master assassin or subterfuge
torpid lotus
you have 3 secs after breaking stealth with subterfuge and you get 3 cb points so you apply garrote, rupture, you can garrote new(lasts longer the improved) and have 3 cb points again für envenom after tb. thats the plan i think
strange python
U only garrote rupture garrote if u have shrouded
If not u garrote once
im running shrouded
with subterfuge
rancid bobcat
for non vendetta exsang do you fully refresh bleeds or just use it on what you can
tropic ocean
we still can stealth so we got that going for us
bleak dune
Does Anyone know if the GW nerf already implemented in Raidbots?
subtle salmon
assassin changed??
tropic ocean
@bleak dune yes in nightly
bleak dune
okay , Thanks
faint harness
@subtle salmon yea we got a new spell called "Assassinate" which kills any target, on 30 min cd
worldly sandal
2nd row talent gives 99% reduction on the CD
lime edge
should i gear up for mythic+ or raids, hmm
after a certain amount of expedients, would racing pulse be better
cause math
@rigid mango expedient increases racing pulse
u might get to the point where u have too much %haste and not enough flat
fleet whale
if that became the case, racing pulse wouldn't be the thing you would go after
i mean, it's still ok as a corruption if you get it on a piece
lime edge
what i mean is
max expedient is 24
maybe expedient 21 and racing pulse 3 would be better
for min maxing
exped 21 is 84% increased haste
ur almost doubling ur racing pulse haste
tropic ocean
@fleet whale it is though
at some point of expedients it was higher simming to add racing pulse instead of more expedient
strange python
i feel so squishy lmao
arctic harness
Racing pulse duration is 4 sec, snapping an exsanguinate in that window is pretty unkikely
But if you manage to do it 
lime edge
that doesnt matter
i dont think a sim makes it so it always procs before u exsang
it would sometimes exsang without pulse proc, and sometimes with
unless it procs way more often than i think
arctic harness
Well, just Sim it then
high nacelle
i simmed an example today if you need proof https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pViNCP63zXx6GYuEBGtLD3
minimal but better to add a RP than another Exp
high nacelle
my gear ain't great and it was true there too
lime edge
btw, how do u sim with gear u dont even have
like
how do i make a fictional set of gear to sim with
arctic harness
Well there you go, it does the same damage but its more unreliable
lime edge
thats only exped 14
tropic ocean
cuz need to take it into consideration as well